October 6, 2025 • 20 mins
Jason Sobocinski joins Zack Oates to share how Haven Hot Chicken builds lasting guest love through great food, consistent hospitality, and small gestures that surprise and delight. From “reverse tipping” cards to weekly community drop-offs, Jason explains how joy and consistency fuel growth in a competitive chicken market.
Zack and Jason discuss:
• Why exceeding expectations defines hospitality at Haven
• How consistency keeps guests returning visit after visit
• Turning feedback into opportunities for improvement
• Reverse tipping cards as a unique way to delight guests
• Surprise-and-delight catering drops that drive awareness
Thanks, Jason!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-sobocinski-75016730/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/haven-hot-chicken/
https://www.havenhotchicken.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
Restaurant Guest ExperiencePodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Goates, andeach week I get to chat with an
industry expert to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
As always, this podcast ispowered by Ovation, the feedback
and operations platform builtfor multi-unit restaurants.
Learn what is actually happeningin your restaurants and how to
(00:22):
improve without just a longsurvey.
Learn more at ovationup.com.
And today we have someone who isa repeat podcast guest because
he is just doing so many coolthings with his brand, Jason
Sobasinski.
He is the president andco-founder at Haven Hot Chicken.
They are growing, there's such agreat brand, amazing product, 10
(00:48):
locations growing, food truck.
Maybe we'll talk a little bitabout that.
But there's a lot going on, andI wanted to have Jason on
because the amount of love thatthis brand gets from their
guests and online is bananas.
And so we wanted to have them onto talk about the guest
experience, talk about thatpower.
So, Jason, thanks for comingback onto the podcast.
(01:10):
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
I'm doing great.
Thank you for having me.
I had a blast last time wespoke.
I have a blast every time I talkto you at various conferences.
Amen.
I'm a true believer in ovationand what it does.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
So always happy to talk.
Well, appreciate it.
And I've loved uh getting thatcard.
I still have it in the plasticwrapper.
I keep it in my desk drawer.
I've got the Haven Hot ChickenBlack card.
For those of you who don't havethat card, sorry.
But it's just awesome that youcould even be the kind of brand
(01:42):
that could have something likethat.
So let's dive into the guestexperience, Jason.
Why is it that people love HavenHot Chicken so much and beyond
the chicken?
Because obviously, like, yeah,you gotta have good food, good
service, table stakes.
Good food, good service does nota brand make.
(02:03):
So why is it that people loveyou guys so much?
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
We like to stand on two big facets in the business.
And you said one of them, it'sgreat food.
We have to have great food, youhave to have great product, it's
got to set you apart.
I think that most people in theindustry right now recognize
that, and quality is paramount.
But number two, it'shospitality.
(02:28):
And for us, the way we definehospitality is exceeding
expectations.
You've got a million choices.
You can go just about anywhere,especially where we are in the
Northeast.
There's so many restaurants andthere's so many choices.
And when it comes to chicken,there's more choices with
chicken every day.
Like it feels like there's newchicken all the time.
(02:48):
When we exceed expectations withhospitality, is when we find we
really win.
And when we get that guestthat's blown away by that little
extra thing we do, it doesn'thave to be a grand gesture.
That's when we really enjoy ourjobs, our team really enjoys
their jobs, and the guestsreally get something extra.
(03:09):
I think that's what's reallypropelled us, that and our
product, to be a successfulbrand right now.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
You exceed expectations on the first visit,
but I think one of the thingsthat also sets you apart is that
you consistently meet thatexpectation with the guest on
subsequent visits, right?
Because it's one thing to belike, hey, we're gonna be good
chicken, but you can't like blowyour guest away every single
time, other than if they areshocked at how consistent it is,
(03:37):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:37):
And we're constantly working on that, and and by all
means, we are not perfect.
And in not being perfect, we geta lot of oppos, not a lot of
opportunities.
I just say we get opportunitiesto correct our mistakes when our
guests give us that feedbackthrough Yelp, Google, and
obviously through ovation.
That's been great because I wantto hear when guests don't get
(04:03):
blown away.
That means every time, right?
I want to be consistent, but Ido think that consistency it can
be not great because if you justget a consistent product and
it's okay, then you're not gonnacome back.
I want to consistently exceedexpectations.
(04:23):
How's that?
Like I want you to get a littlesomething and it could just be a
smile, right?
Or it could just be somebody atthe counter saying, How's your
day today?
It could be something really,really small, but I do want to
try to exceed our guests'expectations every time they
come in, order from us, get UberDoorDash, go through our native
(04:48):
channels, like something we cando that's like they've taken a
little extra care.
Maybe it's in the way the foodwas packed, maybe it's a little
bit of extra napkins.
Every opportunity that we'vegot, we have to take because
it's pretty competitive outthere.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
I love that because one thing that I always say at
ovation is like the littlethings matter because they are
the little things.
I could fake the big things, butthose little things, like the
extra napkins, it's like maybenot everyone is gonna notice
that, but the people who do arereally gonna care.
I remember one person that Iworked with, he had a sign that
(05:27):
was behind him.
It was a little like, you know,a little tentfold, and it said,
Yes, we clean here too.
And I was like, What is thatfrom?
And he said, I was in a hoteland I dropped something on the
floor and so under the bed, andso I lifted up the bed to go
find the thing, and there was alittle piece of paper there that
said, Yes, we clean under heretoo.
I love that.
(05:48):
So he asked the hotel if hecould have that, and that little
thing made him just trust thathotel so much more, and trust is
the currency of today, right?
That's where people make theirdecisions.
SPEAKER_02 (06:04):
Yeah, we've been trying.
I think it's important thatyou're constantly talking about
this, talking about hospitality,talking about exceeding
expectations, talking about yourguests experience.
We recently launched what we'recalling fun cards, but they're
actually a way for our we callthem GE guest experience, it's
(06:25):
the cashier for us, for ourguest experience to reverse tip
our guests.
So basically, they closed to aplethora of different
personalities, right?
And we ask for gratuity everyorder.
We say, Oh, would you like toyou know give some gratuity?
(06:47):
We wanted to put the gratuity orthe tip or whatever it is into
the hands of the G, the guestexperience person.
So if you were to come in andyou were kind of in a bad mood
and you ordered abruptly, andmaybe the G would say, Are you
having a good day?
Like, can I make your daybetter?
Or maybe they wouldn't.
(07:08):
That's totally up to them.
But if you came in and youstarted a dialogue and you were
having a great day, and you'relike, you know what?
This is a great, I'm having agreat interaction.
This is a great experience forme as a worker, as the guest
experience person here at theregister.
I'm gonna give you one of thesecards, and all it is is a dollar
off your next visit.
(07:28):
That's all it is, and all youneed to say is, I really enjoy
this interaction.
I'm tipping you.
Next time you come in, use this.
Next time you order online, usethis.
It's a buck off.
It's me tipping you.
We just wanted to see what itwould do.
So much fun.
The teammates love it, they feellike they have some power in
their hands, and the guests thatreceive these cards, because
(07:51):
they know it's not like apromotion, this is up to the
discretion of the team memberwho's working.
They make that decision justlike the guests decides whether
they want to leave gratuity.
The whole interaction flippedlike that was so cool to watch.
And so now this is somethingwe're doing.
And you may get one, you maynot.
Uh it's not up to me.
It's up to the person behind thecounter and the experience that
(08:14):
they feel that they'd had.
And I thought that was justdifferent and fun.
And it has like surprised someof our guests, which is pretty
fun.
SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
I love that.
I love that idea because it'sgetting to the heart of this
whole thing you're talking aboutis it exceeding the
expectations, is like it's adollar, it's a little thing.
And we actually do somethingsimilar at ovation, except
everyone at ovation gets a bonusthat they have to give somebody
else that ovation every month.
And then what we do is everymonth during the all hands
(08:41):
meeting, they fill out I'mgiving my ovation to this person
because they exhibited theseovation values when this thing
happened.
And so then every month I readthrough every single person's
ovation.
We we call it an ovation, who'sgiving whom their ovation and
for what?
And so it keeps the values firstand foremost in people's minds.
(09:04):
They're always looking for waysto catch people living by the
values of ovation, and it'sgetting them to celebrate each
other.
And I love that you're gettingyour people to celebrate the
customers because the guest isthe reason that we're all here,
and so to celebrate them and tolook for ways to celebrate them,
I think is just such a beautifulway to show that they matter to
(09:29):
you, and that's really cool.
I love that idea.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
They were just like, What?
Why?
Just because I I was nice toyou, and you're like, Yeah, why
not?
You know, a little something.
So we're trying to come up withmore ideas.
I love that idea for internally,though, and I may steal it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Oh, no, please do.
I think it's a systematic way toexpress gratitude.
My freshman year in my hall, Ihad a stack of cards, and they
were called good guy, good deed,good card cards.
And what it was is like wheneveryou caught someone, a guy on our
floor that was doing somethingcool, you would grab a card as
you came up the stairwell, youwrote on it, hey, thanks, Jason.
(10:08):
I saw you do this, and that wasreally nice.
And then we had tape there.
You just go and tape it to thatperson's dorm door.
And it just created such acamaraderie amongst the guys on
our floor.
And like, I'm still friends withmy freshman year friends, not
just because of the cards, butbecause like we were all looking
out to like do something goodfor each other and to like find
(10:31):
each other doing good.
And I think that that's such agreat way to celebrate each
other.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
It is, it's a great way to keep this stuff top of
mind too, and that's the keybecause we're so busy, we're all
running around crazy, and nowyou're like, you know what?
I'm thinking about it because wehave a system, we have something
that we can actually do, and itkeeps it top of mind.
I think that's the key.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
I was gonna ask about a tactic.
I I think that tactic that yougave of like these reverse
tipping, what a cool idea.
Any other tactics that you wantto share?
I love the essence of that.
Oh, wait, by the way, before Iget there, can I ask you a
question?
How did you get to that idea?
Like, where did that idea comefrom?
Because I'm wondering, is thereany like systems that you guys
have in place that allowed forthat idea to come up?
(11:15):
Like, where did it come from?
How did you implement it?
Because that it is a uniqueidea.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
So we pool all of our gratuities and then dole
them out amongst the team,depending on how much that
they've working hour-wise.
And we're always trying tofigure out ways that the team
can bolster their gratuitybecause it's a big part of what
their end pay is.
You can make anywhere from threeto five dollars more per hour
(11:42):
extra just by the gratuitiesthat are coming in.
And I want to make sure that theteam understands that that's
huge, like that's a big part ofyour pay, and I want you to be
able to earn more and have theability to earn more.
And by the way, the way youpack, the way you handle all
these things, we create theseregulars, and then what we've
(12:02):
seen is the more times you'vecome, the higher your tip
averages.
Because at the very beginning,it's like, well, I don't know
what I'm getting.
The QSR world is very, and Idon't know if we're QSR or what,
but but you know, when you comein, you order food, you haven't
received it, and you're asked togive a tip right then and there,
it's like, well, for what?
(12:24):
I'm paying you now.
So what we've seen is as theybuild rapport and as they get to
know the players in the storesand they get to trust them.
You said trust, the gratuityaverage kind of ticks up,
depending on that guest.
So we're always talking about,well, how do we give them more
opportunity to impress the guestand get more gratuity?
(12:46):
Because that's a great thing.
You get really there's a littlesense of pride when your store
has more gratuity on averagethan somebody else's, or your
team has more gratuity onaverage than than the others,
because I love competition.
And so this was just a way thatwe came up with Eken actually
came up with this idea.
He's like, what if we reversetip?
And I was like, Well, I we wehanded out dollars from the the
(13:10):
register kind of thing, and thenwe we kind of fleshed it out
like let's make these cards andlet's make it completely up to
the people that are at theregister.
This is not us, this is them.
They decide which guests get atip and which don't.
And it just became this kind offun thing, but it also keeps
everything again top of mind.
(13:31):
Now we're looking out for greatinteractions because they want
to give these cards out becauseit feels good to give somebody
something, and that at the endof the day, like one of our
values is joy.
We want to spread joy.
Create joy, we want to be joyfulin our job.
Okay, well, this is a great wayto do that.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
And that joy concept, I think, is just so
powerful.
I know we're running low ontime.
I and I wanted to dive into acouple of things here, but any
other tactics?
I know I we uh got sidetrackedthere right before I was asked
to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Well, no, it's it's all good.
We practice surprise anddelights quite often, and
basically we pick a store everysingle week, and that store gets
visited by one of our teammembers, Amanda.
She does catering, the truck,and special events.
So Amanda will go to she'll belike, I think next week she's
doing Oxford, and she'll set upabout three or four different
(14:24):
local businesses that she'llreach out to and say, Hey, on
Thursday, I'm bringing youlunch.
How many people do you have?
And they're like, uh eightpeople.
Great.
I'm bringing you lunch.
Get ready.
I'll be dropping it off at12:30.
And she just goes around, dropsthem off.
She gives them materials, butit's a great way to bolster
(14:46):
catering.
It gets people to come in, itgets people that have seen us
but not know who we are.
A lot of times, what I'm findingbecause we are hot chicken, we
will drop off food.
People will call, literally,they'll call Amanda and say, I
thought you only had spicychicken.
And you dropped this amazingchicken.
(15:08):
It wasn't spicy at all.
And we're like, Yeah, we droppedoff country.
Oh my god, I never would haveordered.
So, like, clearly, our messagingis not very good, and we need to
work on that.
But this is a great opportunityfor us to just get the product
out there, and that's for us thebest marketing is when you can
bite into an audibly loud,crispy, crunchy, juicy, spicy,
(15:30):
delicious piece of chicken, andthen you're like, Okay, now I
understand what it is that youguys are doing.
It's not what I pictured in mymind, which, and I'm not dogging
any other chicken becauseclearly ours is the best, but
when people try it, they'relike, okay, this is something
different because there's a lotof competitors out there.
Chicken is everywhere,everyone's making chicken.
(15:52):
So it's important for us to justget out there and be like, here,
taste this, bite into it.
That's been our best tactic,honestly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
I love that.
And how has ovation been helpfulfor you guys in like both from a
strategy standpoint in terms ofthe team, and then as well as
like a tactical standpoint, likeanything that you've actually
been able to improve as a resultof it?
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
Oh, daily.
We don't have failures, we haveopportunities, right?
So daily we're looking at ourovation scores.
Each individual store that wehave, we're digging into, and
each GM and AGM goes intoovation.
They look at okay, where are theopportunities?
I love that you can filter whatthe guest responses are.
(16:40):
So, what do we need to work onmost?
Is it accuracy?
Are we missing sauces?
Is it temperature?
Like all these things break outfor us.
And I know that we only getabout five to seven percent of
our guests actually give usovations, so it is a very small
(17:01):
amount, but I'll take anyinformation and feedback I
possibly can, and then we'rejust using it literally on a
daily basis to look at okay,where can we improve?
But I think the best part iswhen you can dialogue back with
a guest and say, ah, we messedup.
How can we make this up to you?
(17:22):
First, first and foremost, I'mgonna apologize.
Let's recognize that we made amistake, it's an opportunity.
Second, let's fix the mistake.
If it's in time, we'll fix itfor you.
We'll jump on this, we'll makenew.
And if it isn't in time, let'sinvite you back so you can have
the experience that you weresupposed to have, and let's
(17:42):
exceed your expectations bygiving you loyalty points.
Maybe it's two visits you get tocome to really make sure that
that consistency that we weretalking about is there, right?
So we're doing this on a dailybasis.
Our ovation scores are also tiedto our store performance
bonuses.
So you've got to hit a certainovation score, even to qualify
(18:04):
to get a bonus.
If you're out there and you'recrushing it on food cost and
crushing it on labor, but yourovation scores like a 4.1,
you're not really doing whatwe're set out to do, right?
You're not really following thevalues of the business, you're
not really standing onhospitality and food quality.
(18:26):
That's clear.
So we use that ovation score ona daily basis to score our teams
and to let them know where theyhave opportunities to improve
and they want to.
And that's been a big part forus.
I mean, it's at the end of everyquarter, it is tied to our store
performance bonuses.
It hits home in a big way.
(18:46):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
It's so powerful to see people that truly care about
the guest experience and not inlike a, hey, let's measure it
and then like ignore it, butlet's really dive into it and
have it be not just tied to likea number that you want to hit,
but tied to the success of thatindividual GM in terms of
financially, because guestexperience is a leading
(19:10):
indicator of store success.
And if you're not tying thosetwo things together, if you're
waiting on just like the PL totell the story, you're three to
five months late on fixing andon making sure that things are
going great.
So anyway, Jason, it is always apleasure to chat with you.
And I'm so grateful for thepartnership.
(19:33):
I'm so grateful for all thethings that we get to learn
together.
And well, we sure do appreciateyou and for being such a rock
star and for being cool whilebeing hot.
Today's ovation goes to you,Jason.
Thank you for joining us onGiven Ovation.
Thank you, Zach.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Thanks for joining us today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts or
your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a two
question SMS based actionableguest feedback platform built
for multi unit restaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at ovationup.com.
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
Restaurant Guest ExperiencePodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Goates, andeach week I get to chat with an
industry expert to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
As always, this podcast ispowered by Ovation, the feedback
and operations platform builtfor multi-unit restaurants.
Learn what is actually happeningin your restaurants and how to
(00:22):
improve without just a longsurvey.
Learn more at ovationup.com.
And today we have someone who isa repeat podcast guest because
he is just doing so many coolthings with his brand, Jason
Sobasinski.
He is the president andco-founder at Haven Hot Chicken.
They are growing, there's such agreat brand, amazing product, 10
(00:48):
locations growing, food truck.
Maybe we'll talk a little bitabout that.
But there's a lot going on, andI wanted to have Jason on
because the amount of love thatthis brand gets from their
guests and online is bananas.
And so we wanted to have them onto talk about the guest
experience, talk about thatpower.
So, Jason, thanks for comingback onto the podcast.
(01:10):
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
I'm doing great.
Thank you for having me.
I had a blast last time wespoke.
I have a blast every time I talkto you at various conferences.
Amen.
I'm a true believer in ovationand what it does.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
So always happy to talk.
Well, appreciate it.
And I've loved uh getting thatcard.
I still have it in the plasticwrapper.
I keep it in my desk drawer.
I've got the Haven Hot ChickenBlack card.
For those of you who don't havethat card, sorry.
But it's just awesome that youcould even be the kind of brand
(01:42):
that could have something likethat.
So let's dive into the guestexperience, Jason.
Why is it that people love HavenHot Chicken so much and beyond
the chicken?
Because obviously, like, yeah,you gotta have good food, good
service, table stakes.
Good food, good service does nota brand make.
(02:03):
So why is it that people loveyou guys so much?
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
We like to stand on two big facets in the business.
And you said one of them, it'sgreat food.
We have to have great food, youhave to have great product, it's
got to set you apart.
I think that most people in theindustry right now recognize
that, and quality is paramount.
But number two, it'shospitality.
(02:28):
And for us, the way we definehospitality is exceeding
expectations.
You've got a million choices.
You can go just about anywhere,especially where we are in the
Northeast.
There's so many restaurants andthere's so many choices.
And when it comes to chicken,there's more choices with
chicken every day.
Like it feels like there's newchicken all the time.
(02:48):
When we exceed expectations withhospitality, is when we find we
really win.
And when we get that guestthat's blown away by that little
extra thing we do, it doesn'thave to be a grand gesture.
That's when we really enjoy ourjobs, our team really enjoys
their jobs, and the guestsreally get something extra.
(03:09):
I think that's what's reallypropelled us, that and our
product, to be a successfulbrand right now.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
You exceed expectations on the first visit,
but I think one of the thingsthat also sets you apart is that
you consistently meet thatexpectation with the guest on
subsequent visits, right?
Because it's one thing to belike, hey, we're gonna be good
chicken, but you can't like blowyour guest away every single
time, other than if they areshocked at how consistent it is,
(03:37):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:37):
And we're constantly working on that, and and by all
means, we are not perfect.
And in not being perfect, we geta lot of oppos, not a lot of
opportunities.
I just say we get opportunitiesto correct our mistakes when our
guests give us that feedbackthrough Yelp, Google, and
obviously through ovation.
That's been great because I wantto hear when guests don't get
(04:03):
blown away.
That means every time, right?
I want to be consistent, but Ido think that consistency it can
be not great because if you justget a consistent product and
it's okay, then you're not gonnacome back.
I want to consistently exceedexpectations.
(04:23):
How's that?
Like I want you to get a littlesomething and it could just be a
smile, right?
Or it could just be somebody atthe counter saying, How's your
day today?
It could be something really,really small, but I do want to
try to exceed our guests'expectations every time they
come in, order from us, get UberDoorDash, go through our native
(04:48):
channels, like something we cando that's like they've taken a
little extra care.
Maybe it's in the way the foodwas packed, maybe it's a little
bit of extra napkins.
Every opportunity that we'vegot, we have to take because
it's pretty competitive outthere.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
I love that because one thing that I always say at
ovation is like the littlethings matter because they are
the little things.
I could fake the big things, butthose little things, like the
extra napkins, it's like maybenot everyone is gonna notice
that, but the people who do arereally gonna care.
I remember one person that Iworked with, he had a sign that
(05:27):
was behind him.
It was a little like, you know,a little tentfold, and it said,
Yes, we clean here too.
And I was like, What is thatfrom?
And he said, I was in a hoteland I dropped something on the
floor and so under the bed, andso I lifted up the bed to go
find the thing, and there was alittle piece of paper there that
said, Yes, we clean under heretoo.
I love that.
(05:48):
So he asked the hotel if hecould have that, and that little
thing made him just trust thathotel so much more, and trust is
the currency of today, right?
That's where people make theirdecisions.
SPEAKER_02 (06:04):
Yeah, we've been trying.
I think it's important thatyou're constantly talking about
this, talking about hospitality,talking about exceeding
expectations, talking about yourguests experience.
We recently launched what we'recalling fun cards, but they're
actually a way for our we callthem GE guest experience, it's
(06:25):
the cashier for us, for ourguest experience to reverse tip
our guests.
So basically, they closed to aplethora of different
personalities, right?
And we ask for gratuity everyorder.
We say, Oh, would you like toyou know give some gratuity?
(06:47):
We wanted to put the gratuity orthe tip or whatever it is into
the hands of the G, the guestexperience person.
So if you were to come in andyou were kind of in a bad mood
and you ordered abruptly, andmaybe the G would say, Are you
having a good day?
Like, can I make your daybetter?
Or maybe they wouldn't.
(07:08):
That's totally up to them.
But if you came in and youstarted a dialogue and you were
having a great day, and you'relike, you know what?
This is a great, I'm having agreat interaction.
This is a great experience forme as a worker, as the guest
experience person here at theregister.
I'm gonna give you one of thesecards, and all it is is a dollar
off your next visit.
(07:28):
That's all it is, and all youneed to say is, I really enjoy
this interaction.
I'm tipping you.
Next time you come in, use this.
Next time you order online, usethis.
It's a buck off.
It's me tipping you.
We just wanted to see what itwould do.
So much fun.
The teammates love it, they feellike they have some power in
their hands, and the guests thatreceive these cards, because
(07:51):
they know it's not like apromotion, this is up to the
discretion of the team memberwho's working.
They make that decision justlike the guests decides whether
they want to leave gratuity.
The whole interaction flippedlike that was so cool to watch.
And so now this is somethingwe're doing.
And you may get one, you maynot.
Uh it's not up to me.
It's up to the person behind thecounter and the experience that
(08:14):
they feel that they'd had.
And I thought that was justdifferent and fun.
And it has like surprised someof our guests, which is pretty
fun.
SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
I love that.
I love that idea because it'sgetting to the heart of this
whole thing you're talking aboutis it exceeding the
expectations, is like it's adollar, it's a little thing.
And we actually do somethingsimilar at ovation, except
everyone at ovation gets a bonusthat they have to give somebody
else that ovation every month.
And then what we do is everymonth during the all hands
(08:41):
meeting, they fill out I'mgiving my ovation to this person
because they exhibited theseovation values when this thing
happened.
And so then every month I readthrough every single person's
ovation.
We we call it an ovation, who'sgiving whom their ovation and
for what?
And so it keeps the values firstand foremost in people's minds.
(09:04):
They're always looking for waysto catch people living by the
values of ovation, and it'sgetting them to celebrate each
other.
And I love that you're gettingyour people to celebrate the
customers because the guest isthe reason that we're all here,
and so to celebrate them and tolook for ways to celebrate them,
I think is just such a beautifulway to show that they matter to
(09:29):
you, and that's really cool.
I love that idea.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
They were just like, What?
Why?
Just because I I was nice toyou, and you're like, Yeah, why
not?
You know, a little something.
So we're trying to come up withmore ideas.
I love that idea for internally,though, and I may steal it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Oh, no, please do.
I think it's a systematic way toexpress gratitude.
My freshman year in my hall, Ihad a stack of cards, and they
were called good guy, good deed,good card cards.
And what it was is like wheneveryou caught someone, a guy on our
floor that was doing somethingcool, you would grab a card as
you came up the stairwell, youwrote on it, hey, thanks, Jason.
(10:08):
I saw you do this, and that wasreally nice.
And then we had tape there.
You just go and tape it to thatperson's dorm door.
And it just created such acamaraderie amongst the guys on
our floor.
And like, I'm still friends withmy freshman year friends, not
just because of the cards, butbecause like we were all looking
out to like do something goodfor each other and to like find
(10:31):
each other doing good.
And I think that that's such agreat way to celebrate each
other.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
It is, it's a great way to keep this stuff top of
mind too, and that's the keybecause we're so busy, we're all
running around crazy, and nowyou're like, you know what?
I'm thinking about it because wehave a system, we have something
that we can actually do, and itkeeps it top of mind.
I think that's the key.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
I was gonna ask about a tactic.
I I think that tactic that yougave of like these reverse
tipping, what a cool idea.
Any other tactics that you wantto share?
I love the essence of that.
Oh, wait, by the way, before Iget there, can I ask you a
question?
How did you get to that idea?
Like, where did that idea comefrom?
Because I'm wondering, is thereany like systems that you guys
have in place that allowed forthat idea to come up?
(11:15):
Like, where did it come from?
How did you implement it?
Because that it is a uniqueidea.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
So we pool all of our gratuities and then dole
them out amongst the team,depending on how much that
they've working hour-wise.
And we're always trying tofigure out ways that the team
can bolster their gratuitybecause it's a big part of what
their end pay is.
You can make anywhere from threeto five dollars more per hour
(11:42):
extra just by the gratuitiesthat are coming in.
And I want to make sure that theteam understands that that's
huge, like that's a big part ofyour pay, and I want you to be
able to earn more and have theability to earn more.
And by the way, the way youpack, the way you handle all
these things, we create theseregulars, and then what we've
(12:02):
seen is the more times you'vecome, the higher your tip
averages.
Because at the very beginning,it's like, well, I don't know
what I'm getting.
The QSR world is very, and Idon't know if we're QSR or what,
but but you know, when you comein, you order food, you haven't
received it, and you're asked togive a tip right then and there,
it's like, well, for what?
(12:24):
I'm paying you now.
So what we've seen is as theybuild rapport and as they get to
know the players in the storesand they get to trust them.
You said trust, the gratuityaverage kind of ticks up,
depending on that guest.
So we're always talking about,well, how do we give them more
opportunity to impress the guestand get more gratuity?
(12:46):
Because that's a great thing.
You get really there's a littlesense of pride when your store
has more gratuity on averagethan somebody else's, or your
team has more gratuity onaverage than than the others,
because I love competition.
And so this was just a way thatwe came up with Eken actually
came up with this idea.
He's like, what if we reversetip?
And I was like, Well, I we wehanded out dollars from the the
(13:10):
register kind of thing, and thenwe we kind of fleshed it out
like let's make these cards andlet's make it completely up to
the people that are at theregister.
This is not us, this is them.
They decide which guests get atip and which don't.
And it just became this kind offun thing, but it also keeps
everything again top of mind.
(13:31):
Now we're looking out for greatinteractions because they want
to give these cards out becauseit feels good to give somebody
something, and that at the endof the day, like one of our
values is joy.
We want to spread joy.
Create joy, we want to be joyfulin our job.
Okay, well, this is a great wayto do that.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
And that joy concept, I think, is just so
powerful.
I know we're running low ontime.
I and I wanted to dive into acouple of things here, but any
other tactics?
I know I we uh got sidetrackedthere right before I was asked
to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Well, no, it's it's all good.
We practice surprise anddelights quite often, and
basically we pick a store everysingle week, and that store gets
visited by one of our teammembers, Amanda.
She does catering, the truck,and special events.
So Amanda will go to she'll belike, I think next week she's
doing Oxford, and she'll set upabout three or four different
(14:24):
local businesses that she'llreach out to and say, Hey, on
Thursday, I'm bringing youlunch.
How many people do you have?
And they're like, uh eightpeople.
Great.
I'm bringing you lunch.
Get ready.
I'll be dropping it off at12:30.
And she just goes around, dropsthem off.
She gives them materials, butit's a great way to bolster
(14:46):
catering.
It gets people to come in, itgets people that have seen us
but not know who we are.
A lot of times, what I'm findingbecause we are hot chicken, we
will drop off food.
People will call, literally,they'll call Amanda and say, I
thought you only had spicychicken.
And you dropped this amazingchicken.
(15:08):
It wasn't spicy at all.
And we're like, Yeah, we droppedoff country.
Oh my god, I never would haveordered.
So, like, clearly, our messagingis not very good, and we need to
work on that.
But this is a great opportunityfor us to just get the product
out there, and that's for us thebest marketing is when you can
bite into an audibly loud,crispy, crunchy, juicy, spicy,
(15:30):
delicious piece of chicken, andthen you're like, Okay, now I
understand what it is that youguys are doing.
It's not what I pictured in mymind, which, and I'm not dogging
any other chicken becauseclearly ours is the best, but
when people try it, they'relike, okay, this is something
different because there's a lotof competitors out there.
Chicken is everywhere,everyone's making chicken.
(15:52):
So it's important for us to justget out there and be like, here,
taste this, bite into it.
That's been our best tactic,honestly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
I love that.
And how has ovation been helpfulfor you guys in like both from a
strategy standpoint in terms ofthe team, and then as well as
like a tactical standpoint, likeanything that you've actually
been able to improve as a resultof it?
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
Oh, daily.
We don't have failures, we haveopportunities, right?
So daily we're looking at ourovation scores.
Each individual store that wehave, we're digging into, and
each GM and AGM goes intoovation.
They look at okay, where are theopportunities?
I love that you can filter whatthe guest responses are.
(16:40):
So, what do we need to work onmost?
Is it accuracy?
Are we missing sauces?
Is it temperature?
Like all these things break outfor us.
And I know that we only getabout five to seven percent of
our guests actually give usovations, so it is a very small
(17:01):
amount, but I'll take anyinformation and feedback I
possibly can, and then we'rejust using it literally on a
daily basis to look at okay,where can we improve?
But I think the best part iswhen you can dialogue back with
a guest and say, ah, we messedup.
How can we make this up to you?
(17:22):
First, first and foremost, I'mgonna apologize.
Let's recognize that we made amistake, it's an opportunity.
Second, let's fix the mistake.
If it's in time, we'll fix itfor you.
We'll jump on this, we'll makenew.
And if it isn't in time, let'sinvite you back so you can have
the experience that you weresupposed to have, and let's
(17:42):
exceed your expectations bygiving you loyalty points.
Maybe it's two visits you get tocome to really make sure that
that consistency that we weretalking about is there, right?
So we're doing this on a dailybasis.
Our ovation scores are also tiedto our store performance
bonuses.
So you've got to hit a certainovation score, even to qualify
(18:04):
to get a bonus.
If you're out there and you'recrushing it on food cost and
crushing it on labor, but yourovation scores like a 4.1,
you're not really doing whatwe're set out to do, right?
You're not really following thevalues of the business, you're
not really standing onhospitality and food quality.
(18:26):
That's clear.
So we use that ovation score ona daily basis to score our teams
and to let them know where theyhave opportunities to improve
and they want to.
And that's been a big part forus.
I mean, it's at the end of everyquarter, it is tied to our store
performance bonuses.
It hits home in a big way.
(18:46):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
It's so powerful to see people that truly care about
the guest experience and not inlike a, hey, let's measure it
and then like ignore it, butlet's really dive into it and
have it be not just tied to likea number that you want to hit,
but tied to the success of thatindividual GM in terms of
financially, because guestexperience is a leading
(19:10):
indicator of store success.
And if you're not tying thosetwo things together, if you're
waiting on just like the PL totell the story, you're three to
five months late on fixing andon making sure that things are
going great.
So anyway, Jason, it is always apleasure to chat with you.
And I'm so grateful for thepartnership.
(19:33):
I'm so grateful for all thethings that we get to learn
together.
And well, we sure do appreciateyou and for being such a rock
star and for being cool whilebeing hot.
Today's ovation goes to you,Jason.
Thank you for joining us onGiven Ovation.
Thank you, Zach.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Thanks for joining us today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts or
your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a two
question SMS based actionableguest feedback platform built
for multi unit restaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at ovationup.com.
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