September 29, 2025 • 19 mins
Paul Damico joins Zack Oates to share what still wins guest loyalty today. His take is simple: nail the four walls first, then scale. With leadership across Blaze, Fuzzy’s, Global Franchise Group, Focus Brands, and Moe’s Southwest Grill, Paul explains how culture, training, and clean execution turn into traffic, while technology should remove friction rather than add it.
Zack and Paul discuss:
• Why the in-store experience fuels long-term digital sales
• The fundamentals that never change for restaurants
• Cleanliness as a true traffic driver
• Building a tech stack that feels seamless to guests
• Training and culture as the core of execution
Thanks, Paul!
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/damico5/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/blazepizza/
https://www.instagram.com/blazepizza/?hl=en
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Oates, andeach week I chat with industry
experts to uncover theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
Learn what is actuallyhappening in your restaurants
(00:21):
and how to improve without justa long survey.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And I am so excited.
Today we have a legend of theindustry.
He's on the board of Blaze.
He's a CEO, past CEO of Fuzzy's.
He was CEO of Global FranchiseGroup.
He was the CEO of NafNaf,president of North America for
(00:41):
Focus Brands, president of Moe'sSouthwest Grill.
I mean, I literally needed apodcast just to put his bio in
here, but instead we're justgoing to do the cliff notes and
welcome Paul D'Amico on thepodcast.
How are you, man?
Good to see you, Zach.
I do have to ask, with a lastname like D'Amico, what are the
worst pronunciations that you'veheard?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Damco Just.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Damco, just making up letters, just making up stuff.
Huh, now, paul, when you lookat a brand, you obviously have
had such an amazing career inthe hospitality space when
you're talking with a restaurantowner who is growing and
scaling, what is one of thethings that you normally point
(01:27):
them to to say like, hey, thisis something that you need to
watch out for?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I talk to a lot of up-and-comer restaurant owners,
and I spend a lot of time withexisting multi-unit restaurant
operators and I always tell themlisten, there are so many
pieces to the restaurant puzzle.
The most important thing,though, is what happens inside
your box, right, and that's thefour walls of your restaurant,
because today, in many cases,what happens inside that four
(01:56):
walls is now ranging from 50 to70%, depending on catering,
online ordering, third-partydelivery and all of the other
aspects of growing your sales.
But when someone makes theeffort to come into your box,
they made a conscious decisionto get in the car, maybe with
family, maybe with friends.
Get their part, get out andcome in the box.
(02:17):
The experience has to be 100%,or they're not going to come
back, and those are the peoplethat, ultimately, will become
your third-party users and useyour product outside the four
walls.
But you got to take care ofwhat's happening inside the four
walls.
That's my biggest piece ofadvice.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I love that because usually if someone's going to
order delivery from you, they'regoing to come in as well.
There's going to be some aspectof trying it out, seeing what
it is, because there's thattrust aspect.
And this is the whole thingthat people didn't love about
ghost kitchens is like I don'tknow where this is coming from,
but when I go into a restaurantand I see that it's clean, I am
a lot more likely to order fromthere before if I know the staff
(02:54):
cares and stuff like that.
So I think that's a great pieceof advice because even though
things are changing and there'sso much out there that's
different, the fundamentals arestill there, right?
Paul?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
They have to be.
If you consider yourself arestaurant, you have to have
great food, you have to havegreat service and you have to
have an environment that peoplewant to come to.
They just do.
If not, you'll be a short-termrestaurant operator.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Or you're going to be capped at how many locations
you could scale to right.
Sure, so, as you're thinkingabout the guest experience in
your career, how have you seenthe guest experience evolve and
what stayed the same, andcompare that to like what do you
think the most important aspectof guest experience today is?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Let me relay what I just said.
If you're a restaurant, thebiggest challenge we all face
today is traffic.
Can we get more people to comein and use our restaurants?
Right, and so you've got tohave great about is the
cleanliness piece, and I see itall the time.
(04:09):
No matter where I'm going, Isee that people are neglecting
the cleanliness, thehousekeeping, the organization,
and I think that that is a majordriver of whether or not a
guest is going to come back.
Right, you say, oh, theirrestrooms were filthy.
There's no way.
If they can't keep the restroomclean, how do they keep the
(04:29):
kitchen clean?
Right, I walk into restaurantsI'm in a restaurant at least
once a day, every day of theweek, every day of the year,
whether it's to consume orevaluate or go.
Look at, 80% of the time thefront door has fingerprints and
grease all over it.
So my first impressions arehours of operation, a door
handle and a dirty door, rightand so okay.
(04:50):
So I set my expectations and itjust seems to me that so many
restaurants today have no Windex.
They just have no glass cleaner.
There are sneeze guards youcan't see through, there are
windows that you can't seethrough and there are front
doors you can't see through andthat is what the guest is
looking at, while they're eithermaking a decision on the menu
board, ordering because it's anorder as you go type of concept,
or it was their first and itwill obviously be their last
(05:12):
impression when they leave,because that front door should
always be spotless.
And so cleanliness for me.
I put traffic, I putcleanliness right up there with
achieving traffic and trafficgrowth.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's really interesting because, think about
it, you compare a restaurant tolike a retail store.
Where how many points offailure are there?
In a retail store, it's likeyou get the shirt from the back,
you fold it, you put it out andthen you refold it when someone
tries it on or messes it up,and then you ring it up.
Right, there's like sevenpoints of failure.
(05:44):
In a restaurant, there are like3,000 points of failure, 100%,
and every one of them can bedirty.
Exactly right, and I thinkthat's the thing is like.
You think about all the workthat you've done to create a
brand for the menu, for thetraining, for all of this stuff,
and you're spending hundredsand thousands of dollars to do
(06:05):
this for an amazing build out,and you don't clean the front
door.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And that comes down to training and culture.
Because if your staff knowsyou're all about cleanliness and
your staff knows you're allabout organization and having
things in their right space,then that's obvious.
When you go into Chick-fil-A,you know exactly where the
straws are, the windows arealways clean, you know where the
(06:32):
napkins are, and you know thatfrom a guest perspective.
But if you're an employee there, you know exactly where
everything is and it's alwaysgoing to be there and it's never
going to be different, and youcan move efficiently through the
process of serving a guest.
If you go into a restaurantwhere the employee doesn't know
where the X is and the customersays, can I have an X?
That employee leaves the guestexperience to go figure out
where the X is and they eithernever come back or they come
(06:53):
back with an answer that's notgoing to be satisfactory to you.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And I think one of the keys is the training, like
you're talking about, which iswhy we're huge fans of Opus.
We have an integration withthem.
I think that training platformis brilliant.
Rachel.
There the CEO is an amazingperson.
But as we look at the trainingaspect, it's so critical because
it's like I go into.
I don't want to throw thisspecific brand under the bus,
(07:17):
but like there's a brand that Igo to and sometimes I go in and,
depending on who is on shift,is dependent on like the
experience that I get.
Now you go into a Chick-fil-A,I don't care what Chick-fil-A
I'm in, I know that doesn't makea difference, right?
It's like I can see if there isstuff on the table.
(07:37):
I know that there is going tobe I mean a minute maybe at a
Chick-fil-A that someone willleave stuff on the table and it
won't get cleaned up At otherrestaurants, no matter how big
they are.
It depends on who's on shiftand it depends is it going to
stay clean or not.
It depends on the manager, itdepends on the staff, training
and culture.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Training and culture.
Yeah, and in and out is anotherexample those employees all
wear white outfits with whiteaprons.
We have restaurants around usthat have black restaurants and
black aprons.
Around us that have blackrestaurants and black aprons and
they can't keep them clean.
But with ketchup and grease inand in and out, everybody's
apron is spotless.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
How does this happen?
I love that.
It's culture and training.
One of the important thingsthere is to know, like, what are
you supposed to be training onTo your point.
There's some table stakes weneed to get everyone to a
certain level for this but thenit's about how do you adapt the
specific training based on thatlocation, based on what are they
winning at and what do theyneed to work on, and I think
that's where you have reallygreat area managers and great
tools that allow you to listenin on that and to understand
(08:43):
what's going on even when you'renot there.
So is there anything and I lovethat?
We talked about training andculture and, like the
cleanliness, do you thinkthere's anything that has
changed over the years thatyou've been in restaurant in
terms of, like something thatmaybe guests used to care about
and don't, or maybe somethingthat they didn't care about and
now they?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
do.
I don't know if it's somethingthat's gone away, but something
that has drastically changed ourworld.
Right is the technology stack.
We used to have restaurantsthat had a cash register in them
and they had a credit cardreader, and that was about the
extent of the technology stack.
Today, to run a restaurant, youneed to be a master of IT.
In addition to the guests andthe service and the food and the
(09:22):
cleanliness, you have to knowwhat's happening and how to fix
or how to engage or how to movethe process along in the
technology stack.
Now, with third-party deliveryand how that integrates, I mean,
at the end of the day, it's allabout gaining more share, but
what our industry has done ismove so fast with trying to
maintain that share that thetechnology is playing catch up,
(09:44):
and I can point to 100restaurants where the technology
is not fully integrated andit's a disaster for the customer
to get their food, either toorder their food, to find their
food, to get their food, andwhether that's in-store or
through third-party delivery orthrough online ordering.
It's just in today's world, inso many locations it's just not
what I would call seamless.
We all like to use the wordfrictionless and seamless and
(10:07):
easy for the guests.
Very few are doing that now.
I mean it's getting better, butthe technology stack has got to
be top of mind or the guests oftoday, and certainly the guests
of tomorrow, are not going touse your restaurant.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
By the way, mr and Mrs Restaurant Owners, I hate to
break it to you but your appand your tech and your ordering
process and your that is notbeing compared to the restaurant
down the street.
That is being compared toFacebook, to Amazon, because
those are the apps on the phoneand nobody cares that you're not
a 20, 50, whatever trillionbillion krasillion dollar
(10:45):
company.
All they know is that their appon their phone for you is not
working as well as it is forAmazon or, even worse, doordash
for you is not working as wellas it is for Amazon or, even
worse, doordash.
If DoorDash makes it easier forthem to order, they will pay
more for that ease.
This generation, nowadayspeople are okay.
They are okay paying more aslong as they're getting what
(11:06):
they're paying for.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And that might be just the experience of ordering.
It could be just totally easyand I'm done.
And that's what Amazon mastersright?
It's just click, click, click'mdone, and that's you know.
That's what Amazon mastersright?
It's just click, click, clickdone and it's at the house the
next day.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Now the benefit is there's a lot of great tech
companies out there that arehelping.
The challenge is how do youcreate that tech stack so, like
you're building a Lego castle,that all of the pieces are
actually fitting together toform this experience right?
So love this conversationaround, like the strategies.
Talk to me about some tactics.
What are some tactics thatyou've seen to improve the guest
experience lately?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
When you say tactics, what are we actually going to
do to make the guest experiencewhat they expect it to be?
What are we going to dotactically around that?
And I will always go back tothe training, right, we just
talked about the tech.
Now let's say we have the besttechnology stack in the box and
it's all integrated and it'sseamless.
If the hourly employees thatare actually using that tech
(11:59):
stack to drive the guestexperience don't know what
they're doing or don't know howto move it along, if it bumps,
then the billion dollar techstack that you put into your
restaurant in a box is worthless.
It's a grandma with an iPad,right, yeah?
And so tactically, you have tobe able to perform every
function.
We put $10,000 ovens in ourrestaurant and then we hire a
(12:24):
16-year-old employee thatdoesn't know how to turn the
oven on at their house, I'm sure, but now we put them in front
of this $10,000 box with buttonsand lights and digital timers
and we train them for 30 minuteson that, and now they're an
expert on an 800 degree oven.
How the general public or thepeople in our world don't see
the difference in that isunbelievable.
(12:46):
And so the kitchens we put intothe restaurants today are
highly sophisticated, they'rehighly technologically advanced
and we're still putting 16 and17 year olds in front of them
and not spending the time totrain them properly on it.
And you expect the cake, theburger, the fry to come out
perfect for the guests in thatpiece of cooking technology.
(13:07):
It's not going to happen.
So those are the strategies wehave to rely on, and I go back
to training on every strategy.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, I love that because I think that makes so
much sense, and especially those16, 17 year olds talking about
like other job and retailopportunities.
They could go someplace else.
That's a lot easier, that's alot less challenging, they're
not on their feet as much,they're not dealing with as many
angry customers and they couldgo there if they want.
They're in the hospitality butif you train them and you help
(13:35):
them feel like they are addingvalue to something, that's why
they stay in hospitality.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Absolutely Right, absolutely Younger generation
today is trying to figure outhow to get 10,000 likes on a
picture so they can be anInstagrammer and make a little
money.
That way they're not interestedin sweating in front of an 800
degree oven.
That's not even in their realm.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, well, and it's so interesting too, I think,
about one of our customers.
I was at a conference and she'sgot a whole chain of pizzerias
and she was telling me that itwas a Sunday afternoon and she
got a piece of ovation feedbackthat said, hey, your pizza was
underdone and this is lunchtimeon a Sunday.
And then she got another pieceof feedback your pizza was
underdone.
She got a third piece offeedback your pizza was
(14:17):
underdone.
And keep in mind, she's got 20locations and they all were
coming from this one location.
So she literally got in her carand drove to that location to
be like what's going on?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Now, the GM wasn't there, right, so it was just a
shift lead that was there, turnsout that they didn't have the
pizza at the right temperature,and so she was the pizza sorry,
the pizza oven at the right.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
So she went over there, turned up the temperature
and it was like a difference oflike 15 20 degrees.
But when it goes through thatconveyor belt it was underdone
compared to what it normally is,and every single pizza will be
underdone exactly, and so shewas able to like go there and
fix that before even the lunchrush was over.
But to your point abouttraining, she doesn't have the
(15:00):
tools to train her team on like.
Okay, here's what you do ifthings look different on the
pizza, or slow the conveyor,increase the temperature.
She just didn't know that.
Right, her team didn't havethose tools and so luckily she
was able to like get thatresolved.
But that was one of the thingswhere training needs to be an
(15:20):
ongoing thing, and it needs toEvery single day.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Somebody should be training something.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I love that.
So now you know so many peoplein the restaurant industry, paul
, so I'd love to get your takeon this.
Who is someone that we shouldbe following?
Who's someone that deserves anovation in the restaurant
industry?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
That's hard because there are so many great
operators out there and theyinteract with hundreds of them.
You know, if I picked one Ibumped into him last week at a
conference I would put up thereJeff Alexander.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Jeff.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Alexander, ceo of WowBow.
He has figured out a way we alllook for silver bullets in our
restaurants to really figure outhow do we grow and in most
cases, oh, it's real estate, oh,it's finding the right
franchisee or having the capitalto grow a company's stores.
He has figured out a way totake his product at Wabau and
(16:13):
get it into the hands ofthousands and thousands of
people.
And he's looked beyond thetypical brick and mortar store,
the four walls, the box I talkedabout, and he has focused on
non-traditional and differenttypes of distribution avenues to
grow that product.
And he has grown that brand ina way that I never thought I
(16:34):
would see him doing and I'm soproud of him for doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
He is such a great guy and so sharp.
I've had the privilege ofmeeting him, being friends with
him, and now he's an advisor toOvation and so I get the
privilege of talking to him allthe time and the way that he
thinks about things is sodifferent because he's not
someone who we talk about thefour walls, but he took a brand
(16:59):
that was a four wall brand andtotally changed it into totally
changed the format Arguably theonly actually successful dark
kitchen that there is and interms of like how they run
things and what they're doingand CPG, it's amazing to see
what he's done because he hasn'tbeen constrained by here's how
(17:19):
things have to be done.
So I think that's awesome andhe's always kept the integrity
of the product forefront.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So, no matter where he has moved his chess pieces to
either procure, manufacture ordistribute, he's always kept the
product the way it was intendedto be from day one and it
hasn't changed.
And that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, and talk about consistency.
They've got some big, big plansover there at WowBow.
I'm excited to see this nextphase of his journey and it'd be
, great yeah.
So, paul, now unfortunatelyyou're not big on X, you're not
big on posting on LinkedIn Ifpeople do want to follow you do
(17:59):
you ever post somewhere?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I post on Instagram a bunch, mostly personal stuff,
but I'm on LinkedIn occasionally.
I have thousands of people andI spend the time to accept them
so we can always share ideas.
So I am on LinkedIn and I am onInstagram.
I'm actually on TikTok too.
I just don't spend a lot oftime there.
I'm just there to see thecompanies that I work with and
how they're performing and whatkind of messaging they're
sending on their TikTok channels.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, Well, that's awesome.
The world needs more of you.
And, by the way, I just textedJeff to say hey, hope your ears
are burning.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
We're talking about you in the podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
His comment back in true Jeff fashion, was it was
Paul's birthday two days ago, sogood for him.
He's a man of hospitality, aman of the people for him.
Uh well, paul, for helpingshare a spoonful of wisdom from
your ocean of knowledge.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you so much for joiningus on given ovation.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Always fun, is it?
Thanks, appreciate the time.
Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
If you liked this episode, leave us a review on
Apple Podcasts or your favoriteplace to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Oates, andeach week I chat with industry
experts to uncover theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
Learn what is actuallyhappening in your restaurants
(00:21):
and how to improve without justa long survey.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And I am so excited.
Today we have a legend of theindustry.
He's on the board of Blaze.
He's a CEO, past CEO of Fuzzy's.
He was CEO of Global FranchiseGroup.
He was the CEO of NafNaf,president of North America for
(00:41):
Focus Brands, president of Moe'sSouthwest Grill.
I mean, I literally needed apodcast just to put his bio in
here, but instead we're justgoing to do the cliff notes and
welcome Paul D'Amico on thepodcast.
How are you, man?
Good to see you, Zach.
I do have to ask, with a lastname like D'Amico, what are the
worst pronunciations that you'veheard?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Damco Just.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Damco, just making up letters, just making up stuff.
Huh, now, paul, when you lookat a brand, you obviously have
had such an amazing career inthe hospitality space when
you're talking with a restaurantowner who is growing and
scaling, what is one of thethings that you normally point
(01:27):
them to to say like, hey, thisis something that you need to
watch out for?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I talk to a lot of up-and-comer restaurant owners,
and I spend a lot of time withexisting multi-unit restaurant
operators and I always tell themlisten, there are so many
pieces to the restaurant puzzle.
The most important thing,though, is what happens inside
your box, right, and that's thefour walls of your restaurant,
because today, in many cases,what happens inside that four
(01:56):
walls is now ranging from 50 to70%, depending on catering,
online ordering, third-partydelivery and all of the other
aspects of growing your sales.
But when someone makes theeffort to come into your box,
they made a conscious decisionto get in the car, maybe with
family, maybe with friends.
Get their part, get out andcome in the box.
(02:17):
The experience has to be 100%,or they're not going to come
back, and those are the peoplethat, ultimately, will become
your third-party users and useyour product outside the four
walls.
But you got to take care ofwhat's happening inside the four
walls.
That's my biggest piece ofadvice.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I love that because usually if someone's going to
order delivery from you, they'regoing to come in as well.
There's going to be some aspectof trying it out, seeing what
it is, because there's thattrust aspect.
And this is the whole thingthat people didn't love about
ghost kitchens is like I don'tknow where this is coming from,
but when I go into a restaurantand I see that it's clean, I am
a lot more likely to order fromthere before if I know the staff
(02:54):
cares and stuff like that.
So I think that's a great pieceof advice because even though
things are changing and there'sso much out there that's
different, the fundamentals arestill there, right?
Paul?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
They have to be.
If you consider yourself arestaurant, you have to have
great food, you have to havegreat service and you have to
have an environment that peoplewant to come to.
They just do.
If not, you'll be a short-termrestaurant operator.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Or you're going to be capped at how many locations
you could scale to right.
Sure, so, as you're thinkingabout the guest experience in
your career, how have you seenthe guest experience evolve and
what stayed the same, andcompare that to like what do you
think the most important aspectof guest experience today is?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Let me relay what I just said.
If you're a restaurant, thebiggest challenge we all face
today is traffic.
Can we get more people to comein and use our restaurants?
Right, and so you've got tohave great about is the
cleanliness piece, and I see itall the time.
(04:09):
No matter where I'm going, Isee that people are neglecting
the cleanliness, thehousekeeping, the organization,
and I think that that is a majordriver of whether or not a
guest is going to come back.
Right, you say, oh, theirrestrooms were filthy.
There's no way.
If they can't keep the restroomclean, how do they keep the
(04:29):
kitchen clean?
Right, I walk into restaurantsI'm in a restaurant at least
once a day, every day of theweek, every day of the year,
whether it's to consume orevaluate or go.
Look at, 80% of the time thefront door has fingerprints and
grease all over it.
So my first impressions arehours of operation, a door
handle and a dirty door, rightand so okay.
(04:50):
So I set my expectations and itjust seems to me that so many
restaurants today have no Windex.
They just have no glass cleaner.
There are sneeze guards youcan't see through, there are
windows that you can't seethrough and there are front
doors you can't see through andthat is what the guest is
looking at, while they're eithermaking a decision on the menu
board, ordering because it's anorder as you go type of concept,
or it was their first and itwill obviously be their last
(05:12):
impression when they leave,because that front door should
always be spotless.
And so cleanliness for me.
I put traffic, I putcleanliness right up there with
achieving traffic and trafficgrowth.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's really interesting because, think about
it, you compare a restaurant tolike a retail store.
Where how many points offailure are there?
In a retail store, it's likeyou get the shirt from the back,
you fold it, you put it out andthen you refold it when someone
tries it on or messes it up,and then you ring it up.
Right, there's like sevenpoints of failure.
(05:44):
In a restaurant, there are like3,000 points of failure, 100%,
and every one of them can bedirty.
Exactly right, and I thinkthat's the thing is like.
You think about all the workthat you've done to create a
brand for the menu, for thetraining, for all of this stuff,
and you're spending hundredsand thousands of dollars to do
(06:05):
this for an amazing build out,and you don't clean the front
door.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And that comes down to training and culture.
Because if your staff knowsyou're all about cleanliness and
your staff knows you're allabout organization and having
things in their right space,then that's obvious.
When you go into Chick-fil-A,you know exactly where the
straws are, the windows arealways clean, you know where the
(06:32):
napkins are, and you know thatfrom a guest perspective.
But if you're an employee there, you know exactly where
everything is and it's alwaysgoing to be there and it's never
going to be different, and youcan move efficiently through the
process of serving a guest.
If you go into a restaurantwhere the employee doesn't know
where the X is and the customersays, can I have an X?
That employee leaves the guestexperience to go figure out
where the X is and they eithernever come back or they come
(06:53):
back with an answer that's notgoing to be satisfactory to you.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And I think one of the keys is the training, like
you're talking about, which iswhy we're huge fans of Opus.
We have an integration withthem.
I think that training platformis brilliant.
Rachel.
There the CEO is an amazingperson.
But as we look at the trainingaspect, it's so critical because
it's like I go into.
I don't want to throw thisspecific brand under the bus,
(07:17):
but like there's a brand that Igo to and sometimes I go in and,
depending on who is on shift,is dependent on like the
experience that I get.
Now you go into a Chick-fil-A,I don't care what Chick-fil-A
I'm in, I know that doesn't makea difference, right?
It's like I can see if there isstuff on the table.
(07:37):
I know that there is going tobe I mean a minute maybe at a
Chick-fil-A that someone willleave stuff on the table and it
won't get cleaned up At otherrestaurants, no matter how big
they are.
It depends on who's on shiftand it depends is it going to
stay clean or not.
It depends on the manager, itdepends on the staff, training
and culture.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Training and culture.
Yeah, and in and out is anotherexample those employees all
wear white outfits with whiteaprons.
We have restaurants around usthat have black restaurants and
black aprons.
Around us that have blackrestaurants and black aprons and
they can't keep them clean.
But with ketchup and grease inand in and out, everybody's
apron is spotless.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
How does this happen?
I love that.
It's culture and training.
One of the important thingsthere is to know, like, what are
you supposed to be training onTo your point.
There's some table stakes weneed to get everyone to a
certain level for this but thenit's about how do you adapt the
specific training based on thatlocation, based on what are they
winning at and what do theyneed to work on, and I think
that's where you have reallygreat area managers and great
tools that allow you to listenin on that and to understand
(08:43):
what's going on even when you'renot there.
So is there anything and I lovethat?
We talked about training andculture and, like the
cleanliness, do you thinkthere's anything that has
changed over the years thatyou've been in restaurant in
terms of, like something thatmaybe guests used to care about
and don't, or maybe somethingthat they didn't care about and
now they?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
do.
I don't know if it's somethingthat's gone away, but something
that has drastically changed ourworld.
Right is the technology stack.
We used to have restaurantsthat had a cash register in them
and they had a credit cardreader, and that was about the
extent of the technology stack.
Today, to run a restaurant, youneed to be a master of IT.
In addition to the guests andthe service and the food and the
(09:22):
cleanliness, you have to knowwhat's happening and how to fix
or how to engage or how to movethe process along in the
technology stack.
Now, with third-party deliveryand how that integrates, I mean,
at the end of the day, it's allabout gaining more share, but
what our industry has done ismove so fast with trying to
maintain that share that thetechnology is playing catch up,
(09:44):
and I can point to 100restaurants where the technology
is not fully integrated andit's a disaster for the customer
to get their food, either toorder their food, to find their
food, to get their food, andwhether that's in-store or
through third-party delivery orthrough online ordering.
It's just in today's world, inso many locations it's just not
what I would call seamless.
We all like to use the wordfrictionless and seamless and
(10:07):
easy for the guests.
Very few are doing that now.
I mean it's getting better, butthe technology stack has got to
be top of mind or the guests oftoday, and certainly the guests
of tomorrow, are not going touse your restaurant.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
By the way, mr and Mrs Restaurant Owners, I hate to
break it to you but your appand your tech and your ordering
process and your that is notbeing compared to the restaurant
down the street.
That is being compared toFacebook, to Amazon, because
those are the apps on the phoneand nobody cares that you're not
a 20, 50, whatever trillionbillion krasillion dollar
(10:45):
company.
All they know is that their appon their phone for you is not
working as well as it is forAmazon or, even worse, doordash
for you is not working as wellas it is for Amazon or, even
worse, doordash.
If DoorDash makes it easier forthem to order, they will pay
more for that ease.
This generation, nowadayspeople are okay.
They are okay paying more aslong as they're getting what
(11:06):
they're paying for.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And that might be just the experience of ordering.
It could be just totally easyand I'm done.
And that's what Amazon mastersright?
It's just click, click, click'mdone, and that's you know.
That's what Amazon mastersright?
It's just click, click, clickdone and it's at the house the
next day.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Now the benefit is there's a lot of great tech
companies out there that arehelping.
The challenge is how do youcreate that tech stack so, like
you're building a Lego castle,that all of the pieces are
actually fitting together toform this experience right?
So love this conversationaround, like the strategies.
Talk to me about some tactics.
What are some tactics thatyou've seen to improve the guest
experience lately?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
When you say tactics, what are we actually going to
do to make the guest experiencewhat they expect it to be?
What are we going to dotactically around that?
And I will always go back tothe training, right, we just
talked about the tech.
Now let's say we have the besttechnology stack in the box and
it's all integrated and it'sseamless.
If the hourly employees thatare actually using that tech
(11:59):
stack to drive the guestexperience don't know what
they're doing or don't know howto move it along, if it bumps,
then the billion dollar techstack that you put into your
restaurant in a box is worthless.
It's a grandma with an iPad,right, yeah?
And so tactically, you have tobe able to perform every
function.
We put $10,000 ovens in ourrestaurant and then we hire a
(12:24):
16-year-old employee thatdoesn't know how to turn the
oven on at their house, I'm sure, but now we put them in front
of this $10,000 box with buttonsand lights and digital timers
and we train them for 30 minuteson that, and now they're an
expert on an 800 degree oven.
How the general public or thepeople in our world don't see
the difference in that isunbelievable.
(12:46):
And so the kitchens we put intothe restaurants today are
highly sophisticated, they'rehighly technologically advanced
and we're still putting 16 and17 year olds in front of them
and not spending the time totrain them properly on it.
And you expect the cake, theburger, the fry to come out
perfect for the guests in thatpiece of cooking technology.
(13:07):
It's not going to happen.
So those are the strategies wehave to rely on, and I go back
to training on every strategy.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, I love that because I think that makes so
much sense, and especially those16, 17 year olds talking about
like other job and retailopportunities.
They could go someplace else.
That's a lot easier, that's alot less challenging, they're
not on their feet as much,they're not dealing with as many
angry customers and they couldgo there if they want.
They're in the hospitality butif you train them and you help
(13:35):
them feel like they are addingvalue to something, that's why
they stay in hospitality.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Absolutely Right, absolutely Younger generation
today is trying to figure outhow to get 10,000 likes on a
picture so they can be anInstagrammer and make a little
money.
That way they're not interestedin sweating in front of an 800
degree oven.
That's not even in their realm.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, well, and it's so interesting too, I think,
about one of our customers.
I was at a conference and she'sgot a whole chain of pizzerias
and she was telling me that itwas a Sunday afternoon and she
got a piece of ovation feedbackthat said, hey, your pizza was
underdone and this is lunchtimeon a Sunday.
And then she got another pieceof feedback your pizza was
underdone.
She got a third piece offeedback your pizza was
(14:17):
underdone.
And keep in mind, she's got 20locations and they all were
coming from this one location.
So she literally got in her carand drove to that location to
be like what's going on?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Now, the GM wasn't there, right, so it was just a
shift lead that was there, turnsout that they didn't have the
pizza at the right temperature,and so she was the pizza sorry,
the pizza oven at the right.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
So she went over there, turned up the temperature
and it was like a difference oflike 15 20 degrees.
But when it goes through thatconveyor belt it was underdone
compared to what it normally is,and every single pizza will be
underdone exactly, and so shewas able to like go there and
fix that before even the lunchrush was over.
But to your point abouttraining, she doesn't have the
(15:00):
tools to train her team on like.
Okay, here's what you do ifthings look different on the
pizza, or slow the conveyor,increase the temperature.
She just didn't know that.
Right, her team didn't havethose tools and so luckily she
was able to like get thatresolved.
But that was one of the thingswhere training needs to be an
(15:20):
ongoing thing, and it needs toEvery single day.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Somebody should be training something.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I love that.
So now you know so many peoplein the restaurant industry, paul
, so I'd love to get your takeon this.
Who is someone that we shouldbe following?
Who's someone that deserves anovation in the restaurant
industry?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
That's hard because there are so many great
operators out there and theyinteract with hundreds of them.
You know, if I picked one Ibumped into him last week at a
conference I would put up thereJeff Alexander.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Jeff.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Alexander, ceo of WowBow.
He has figured out a way we alllook for silver bullets in our
restaurants to really figure outhow do we grow and in most
cases, oh, it's real estate, oh,it's finding the right
franchisee or having the capitalto grow a company's stores.
He has figured out a way totake his product at Wabau and
(16:13):
get it into the hands ofthousands and thousands of
people.
And he's looked beyond thetypical brick and mortar store,
the four walls, the box I talkedabout, and he has focused on
non-traditional and differenttypes of distribution avenues to
grow that product.
And he has grown that brand ina way that I never thought I
(16:34):
would see him doing and I'm soproud of him for doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
He is such a great guy and so sharp.
I've had the privilege ofmeeting him, being friends with
him, and now he's an advisor toOvation and so I get the
privilege of talking to him allthe time and the way that he
thinks about things is sodifferent because he's not
someone who we talk about thefour walls, but he took a brand
(16:59):
that was a four wall brand andtotally changed it into totally
changed the format Arguably theonly actually successful dark
kitchen that there is and interms of like how they run
things and what they're doingand CPG, it's amazing to see
what he's done because he hasn'tbeen constrained by here's how
(17:19):
things have to be done.
So I think that's awesome andhe's always kept the integrity
of the product forefront.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So, no matter where he has moved his chess pieces to
either procure, manufacture ordistribute, he's always kept the
product the way it was intendedto be from day one and it
hasn't changed.
And that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, and talk about consistency.
They've got some big, big plansover there at WowBow.
I'm excited to see this nextphase of his journey and it'd be
, great yeah.
So, paul, now unfortunatelyyou're not big on X, you're not
big on posting on LinkedIn Ifpeople do want to follow you do
(17:59):
you ever post somewhere?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I post on Instagram a bunch, mostly personal stuff,
but I'm on LinkedIn occasionally.
I have thousands of people andI spend the time to accept them
so we can always share ideas.
So I am on LinkedIn and I am onInstagram.
I'm actually on TikTok too.
I just don't spend a lot oftime there.
I'm just there to see thecompanies that I work with and
how they're performing and whatkind of messaging they're
sending on their TikTok channels.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, Well, that's awesome.
The world needs more of you.
And, by the way, I just textedJeff to say hey, hope your ears
are burning.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
We're talking about you in the podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
His comment back in true Jeff fashion, was it was
Paul's birthday two days ago, sogood for him.
He's a man of hospitality, aman of the people for him.
Uh well, paul, for helpingshare a spoonful of wisdom from
your ocean of knowledge.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you so much for joiningus on given ovation.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Always fun, is it?
Thanks, appreciate the time.
Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
If you liked this episode, leave us a review on
Apple Podcasts or your favoriteplace to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
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