February 17, 2025 • 18 mins
In this episode of Give an Ovation, we welcome Erin Levzow, a hospitality marketing and technology expert with nearly 20 years of experience at brands like Caesars, MGM, Wingstop, Freebirds, and Del Taco. Erin shares her insights on how to blend technology with human connection to create exceptional guest experiences.
Zack and Erin discuss:
Why brands often forget about the guest and how to refocus on their needs
The power of consistency in building customer loyalty
How technology can enhance emotional connections rather than replace them
The importance of meeting guests where they are—both digitally and in person
Why marketing and technology teams must work together for true success
How brands like Wingstop evolved their messaging to better connect with customers
Tune in to hear Erin’s expert take on guest experience, marketing innovation, and the future of hospitality tech!
Thanks, Erin!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests with all the
(00:21):
questions.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today we have Part Deux,which is going to be a lot
better than the Joker movie.
Erin Levesow almost 20 years inhospitality marketing tech with
brands like Caesars, mgm,wingstop, freebirds.
She's actually the former VP oftech at Del Taco, cmo of I love
this Museum of Ice Cream.
(00:41):
Yeah, she was a CMO at otherplaces too, but the Museum of
Ice Cream is like the real bigone for me.
And now she's an advisor boardmember and podcast host.
Hence, if you're listening,you're about to hear the
silkiest voice that has been onthis podcast, because she's got
the mic set up of professionals.
What's up, erin?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I don't think it's silky, but thank you and I'm
glad to be here for, yeah, oursecond time around.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I have been trying to get Erin on the podcast for
months and she's been that isnot true.
That is not true.
She has been putting me off andI'm so glad that we finally
cornered her on a Friday torecord this the day before my
birthday, and that was herbirthday.
Present to me is getting onthis podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So thank you, erin, happy birthday, happy, happy
birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, erin, let's talk about this.
You have seen so much in themarketing and the tech space,
and let me just start with aquestion that I love to ask
people who have amazingexperience like you do, which is
what are most people doingwrong?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I mean, they forget about the guest.
It always comes back to do youremember who your guest is and
where they want to be?
And we, in our nature, try andsilo guests and say they all
want to use an app, or they allwant to use the website, or they
all want to come in person.
They don't.
Every guest is a little bitdifferent, and so really putting
(02:05):
them front and center is, Ithink, where website or they all
want to come in person, theydon't.
Every guest is a little bitdifferent, and so really putting
them front and center is, Ithink, where people get it wrong
is they forget.
I also think they try and theyfeel they need a company for
everything.
Right, and you don't need 75tech companies to run your brand
.
Go back to what is core to it,what's important, and then focus
there.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
How would you go about?
And, by the way, I love thatidea of not all consumers want
to be treated the same.
And I would add, and here'sanother layer of fun not all
consumers want to be treated thesame every time.
So it's like I want to go intoa restaurant, I want to order
DoorDash, but yet I'm expectingthe same amount of care from you
(02:47):
as a brand, and it's up to youto meet me where I'm at, when
I'm there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And not just care, but like consistency.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Do you know why my daughter flipping loves to go to
Olive Garden and I'm like, fine, I do want the tour of Italy.
It's great, but it's becauseit's consistent.
You know exactly what you'regoing to get.
You know exactly what thefood's going to come out.
You know the salad's going tocome out.
You know the breadsticks aregoing to come out.
No matter how I order it, youknow what you're getting and
(03:15):
there's a lot of consistency inwhat we need.
Our lives are crazy.
Let's give people consistency.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I love that.
And consistency I mean when Italk about the three C's of
guest experience.
It's convenience, consistencyand connection right.
And I think tech a lot of timescan help us, especially with
the consistency to measurethings.
But when I always say you can'ttake the humans out of
hospitality, it's because whenit gets to that connection point
(03:42):
, aaron, you need that humantouch, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, I mean, the human experience is so important
, and so I say what we get to doin technology is emotional
connection and it's emotionaltechnology because there's still
this heart.
I have a heart, you have aheart.
Let's connect those.
But what connects those istechnology.
And when you find someone wholeads marketing technology, who
(04:09):
understands the emotion and thepsychology behind it and they
also understand the technologybehind it, that's a winner.
Those are some of the bestfolks I've ever worked with, are
people that understand thepsychology.
Right, it's your typicaltraditional marketers who
understand the creative and thefeelings that get evoked.
And then you marry that withtechnology and that's what wins.
(04:31):
But it's still human connection, it's just helping.
And again, it gets said allover and over and over but right
person, right time, right place, it's really that Technology
helps you get there.
It's the emotion that evokes iswhat connects with the human.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But Erin, that doesn't scale.
I have a lot of restaurants, Ihave a lot of customers coming
in.
I can't connect with all ofthem.
It doesn't scale.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It does scale.
We went from being the wingexperts and everybody was like,
well, you're the wing experts.
And I was like, but thatdoesn't connect with our people.
Right To get at it, get at itas a way of life.
That became their slogan.
I'm not sure if it's stilltheir slogan, but like it was
this idea of how you attack lifeand that connected and
(05:18):
resonated and it did scale.
When you find something thatthe psychology puts in place,
that is about the demographic,that is about the customer, it
will scale.
But it's finding the rightthing, because wing experts
didn't, it wasn't the rightthing.
Get at it how you get afterlife, whether it's you're riding
(05:38):
a bike or you're attackingwings, because you don't eat
wings they're not a simple foodto eat.
You get messy.
How you get after life.
That was exciting for Wingstopand it definitely resonated and
scaled.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I love that I right now am wearing a $45 Bucky
sweatshirt that I got?
Yes, I love Bucky's and whodoesn't?
I actually have two Bucky-ee'sshirts, but whenever I wear a
Buc-ee shirt, people smile.
When they see my shirt, To seea little beaver chipmunk.
I don't even know what it is.
Actually it's enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And do you need gas?
Do you need to do yourChristmas shopping?
Do you just need popcorn?
They have it all.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And maybe I want to buy a grill.
I don't know Right, it's likethey've got it all.
But here's the crazy thing,erin, I walked into a Buc-ee's
last weekend, 2 am in SouthCarolina, and the doors open.
I walk in, 2 am and what do Ihear?
I hear from four people Welcometo Buc-ee's.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They pay well too.
They pay their employees wellthere.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And instantly.
So when we talk about howconnection can't scale, that is
so ingrained.
When was the last time I wasgreeted walking into a gas
station?
I know, I know, and so I bringthat up just as an example of
hospitality doesn't care aboutyour industry.
Hospitality cares about theguests feeling cared about.
(07:08):
That's what hospitality is.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And Buc-ee's has scaled.
Just to be clear, they havescaled, they've continued to
grow, they've been calculatedwith their growth, so they're
not just growing to grow andthey've done that on purpose,
right?
They give you an experience,exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And there's some technology there, yes, but it's
the heart of the people.
They hire the right people,they retain the right people and
they make sure that even at 2am, that those people are
friendly and helpful, which iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
You don't even know what to do.
You're probably shocked.
That's why you remember it,because you were like who's ever
greeted me at 2 am and at thefudge counter at 2 am.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
obviously I had to go walking all around the store
asking hey, is there anyoneworking the fudge counter?
No, I didn't.
You know what happened.
There were two people at thefudge counter.
That's insane, two of them andthey both said would you like a
sample?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
You're like absolutely I do it's 2 am.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
There are four people behind the beef jerky counter.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's crazy.
Yeah, they have a wonderfulestablishment.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
They do.
It creates raving fans who geton podcasts and talk about it.
So, talking about the guest, Ilove that your focus on
technology and marketing isreally getting focused on the
guest.
What do you think is one of themost important aspects of guest
experience nowadays?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Again it goes back to don't forget about the guest,
actually the human connection.
I said to someone this morning.
I said, oh, how's so-and-sodoing?
And he goes who's so-and-so?
And I said, you know so-and-so?
And I regurgitated thatgentleman's life story and he
goes oh, you mean this person?
And I said, oh well, I got hisname wrong.
But I remembered the whole lifestory and it's because it
(08:53):
really has to do with the human.
How do you connect with thathuman?
And I think, as people, we wantthat right.
I want nothing more than forsomeone to look at me and go I
see you.
I want that from a company too.
It turns out right.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, it's like unreasonable hospitality which
is all about love, right, and Ithink that that's the whole gist
of it.
And I just went to a conferenceit was two days of, I mean, a
thousand tactics of how toimprove the restaurant and it
was amazing.
And then I got up there and formy keynote I talked about the
(09:30):
human connection and these areall amazing things and please do
all of these and take notes andbring them back to your
restaurant.
But we need to remember why.
Why are we in this industrythat has got tough margins, it's
got tough employment, it goesup and down with the economy,
it's very volatile, because wecare.
(09:51):
That's what I feel like is soeasy to forget.
So what would you do?
You go into a restaurant brandand you're sitting down with a
C-suite and they say, aaron,what do we do?
We want to connect more withour guests.
What are some tactics that youwould give them?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, I want to just jump right into that.
I would ask them who is yourguest?
I've walked into restaurantcompanies when they're like we
need an app and I was like, okay, why, why do we need an app?
Why do we need this?
What do we know currently aboutour customer?
What don't we know?
And then I would move intotactics and sometimes it's as
easy as like, hey, you're justnot talking to them, you're just
(10:28):
not talking to them in theright way.
Again, at Wingstop, we had tochange how we talk to our
customer, the language that ourcustomer was using and the
language we were using.
It was like your father talkingto your kid and we didn't want
to be that person.
We wanted to be your friend.
Well, you talk to your friend adifferent way than a father
talking to a kid.
No-transcript, she reads it.
(11:10):
Talk to them where they're at.
It's that simple.
And again, I know I'msimplifying marketing in general
, but the idea of who are youtrying to speak to, how are you
trying to speak to them and then, where are you trying to speak
to them, is really the core ofmarketing.
Where are you trying to speakto them is really the core of
marketing.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
For a brand who might not have a whole marketing team
?
How do I go about discoveringwho are my customers?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It could be as simple as looking at Google Analytics
who's coming to your website andit will show you the demo.
It will literally tell you howold they are, what they look
like, what they're doing, whereelse they've been.
Start there, right, and that'sbasic information.
But then literally sit in yourstore.
Marketers, go inside.
I remember at Freebirds I had towork.
(11:57):
Everybody has to work in therestaurant.
I worked in the restaurant.
I'm rolling burritos and I wasnot good at it.
I was very, very horrible at it.
But I got to see everybody thatwas coming through and as I'm
rolling this burrito, this womanlooks at me and she's watching
me and I'm trying I wasstruggling to get it to fold and
she goes are you an idiot?
(12:18):
And I said I don't.
I might be I'm actually anincredible marketer but I might
not be a good burrito roller wecan all agree on that.
But I did get to see exactlywho came into the restaurants
and what they looked like andhow they spoke and what was
engaging to them and what theywore, and there's nothing better
than actually just observingpeople.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Isn't that kind of weird though.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't think so.
I mean it's free.
It turns out it's very free forme to stand in a restaurant.
I don't know, I probably lostthem some money when I was
working in there, but, like you,could watch all of these folks
come through and I could go.
All right, I understand who'scoming in at lunch.
I understand who's coming in atdinner.
All right, where do you thinkthey play?
Let's go target them there.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I love that I was being a bit facetious before,
because I did the same thingwith Ovation.
I remember in the beginning ofOvation I would sit there and
just watch people engage with QRcodes.
I would see them.
What did they talk about asthey picked it up?
How did they use at the back?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
of the day and that probably changed for you, right?
It changed pre-COVID,post-COVID, how people
interacted with QR codes.
It was night and day, I feellike, on how they interact now
than what they did Becausebefore they were like oh, qr
codes, do you have an app forthat?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And so which is why pre-COVID, we had iPad kiosks
with smiley faces on them, andthen post-COVID, everyone kind
of got on board with the QR codeand so didn't need that.
But there were so many things Ilearned by watching people use
our technology, so I think notonly restaurateurs, but any tech
person listening go watchpeople use your technology.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You just hit it on the head.
Tech people typically do notwatch.
They do not.
So when your technologydepartment and your marketing
department actually can cometogether is when you win.
And there's still so manysegmented and separated tech and
marketing departments inmarketing or, well, in
restaurants.
(14:18):
And when they can come togetherand go, hey, we care about the
emotion, because marketerstypically are like I can tell
you all about the customer andtechnologists go, I can tell you
about the technology.
When you get them to work handin hand, it's a win.
So go in and watch.
Bring your IT friend with you.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I love that.
I grew up in the advertisingspace and we would go and do not
just surveys, not just focusgroups, but ethnographies and an
ethnography is when you followsomeone around, not just to what
they're doing.
So I remember I was working fora project on a book company and
they have a bunch of bookstoresaround the country and I
(14:58):
followed one of their consumersaround.
I went with her, got to herhouse in the morning and she was
making breakfast for the kidsand getting them out the door
for school.
We sat down and we chatted fora while as she was doing laundry
and then she went shopping andwent to the bookstore.
We followed her around and thenwe went to lunch with her.
So we were together forprobably five hours and the
(15:19):
whole time just recording thewhole thing, Just understanding
who she was and why she made thedecision she did.
Exactly and how did thebookstore fit into her life and
the things that were around herhouse from the bookstore and how
she wanted to feel in thebookstore.
And as a result of this quoteunquote marketing experience,
the recommendation was in thebookstores they should lower
(15:42):
their shelves, because shewanted to feel more like a home
and she wanted to feel less likea library.
So they lowered the bookshelvesto give people you know so they
can see what's going on inother places and not feel like
they were trapped inside theseaisles.
So it reduced the skews, but itimproved the guest experience.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, and you just again hit something on the head,
which is we are not the mostimportant part of someone's day.
We'd like to believe we are,isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Isn't everyone thinking about Wingstop?
All day, every day, all day.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Exactly Like any restaurant they'll be like oh
well, obviously they want tocome to us.
I was like they might've madethat decision two minutes ago.
Right, they literally might'vebeen driving by.
But like figure out what pieceof that puzzle.
And like you followed heraround and you figured out where
that fit into her life and Idon't think we do that enough.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, love that, erin .
You and I could chat all dayand we do when we're at trade
shows, which is always fun.
You are one of the shininglights.
It's so fun to see you at tradeshows.
If you're at a trade show andyou see Erin, be prepared to
feel the love because she hassuch a dynamic energy about her.
You're awesome, erin.
You do so much great stuff forthis industry and I'm grateful
(16:56):
that you came on the podcast.
But before we leave, I want tohear who is someone that you
think deserves an ovation in therestaurant industry.
Who's someone that we should befollowing?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I mean there's lots of people, but I would say I
actually just spoke to her thismorning, jennifer Loper from C3.
She is also someone who Ibelieve that you can't have
without darkness and no matterwhat, she brings the light and
she is a beautiful shining starof that and I've known her for a
(17:28):
while now and every time sheshows up in a room she brings
light with her and I like to putmyself next to people who, I
feel, brighten my day too.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I love that.
Well, Erin, where can people go?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
to follow you Anywhere.
If you want to see myself andmy daughter doing TikTok dances,
you can find us on TikTok.
If you Snapchat and my daughterdoing TikTok dances, you can
find us on TikTok If youSnapchat anything.
Linkedin there's really noplatform that I'm not on.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And she's got over 16,000 followers on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, it's a lot.
I don't remember your name, butI remember your whole life
story, that's for sure.
I love that and thank you forremembering me.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Absolutely, erin Well , for grounding us in the guests
and for helping me pick mybirthday dinner this weekend,
olive Garden.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you for joining us onGiven Ovation.
Thank you, thanks for joiningus today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts
or your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
(18:26):
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests with all the
(00:21):
questions.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today we have Part Deux,which is going to be a lot
better than the Joker movie.
Erin Levesow almost 20 years inhospitality marketing tech with
brands like Caesars, mgm,wingstop, freebirds.
She's actually the former VP oftech at Del Taco, cmo of I love
this Museum of Ice Cream.
(00:41):
Yeah, she was a CMO at otherplaces too, but the Museum of
Ice Cream is like the real bigone for me.
And now she's an advisor boardmember and podcast host.
Hence, if you're listening,you're about to hear the
silkiest voice that has been onthis podcast, because she's got
the mic set up of professionals.
What's up, erin?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I don't think it's silky, but thank you and I'm
glad to be here for, yeah, oursecond time around.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I have been trying to get Erin on the podcast for
months and she's been that isnot true.
That is not true.
She has been putting me off andI'm so glad that we finally
cornered her on a Friday torecord this the day before my
birthday, and that was herbirthday.
Present to me is getting onthis podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So thank you, erin, happy birthday, happy, happy
birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, erin, let's talk about this.
You have seen so much in themarketing and the tech space,
and let me just start with aquestion that I love to ask
people who have amazingexperience like you do, which is
what are most people doingwrong?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I mean, they forget about the guest.
It always comes back to do youremember who your guest is and
where they want to be?
And we, in our nature, try andsilo guests and say they all
want to use an app, or they allwant to use the website, or they
all want to come in person.
They don't.
Every guest is a little bitdifferent, and so really putting
(02:05):
them front and center is, Ithink, where website or they all
want to come in person, theydon't.
Every guest is a little bitdifferent, and so really putting
them front and center is, Ithink, where people get it wrong
is they forget.
I also think they try and theyfeel they need a company for
everything.
Right, and you don't need 75tech companies to run your brand
.
Go back to what is core to it,what's important, and then focus
there.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
How would you go about?
And, by the way, I love thatidea of not all consumers want
to be treated the same.
And I would add, and here'sanother layer of fun not all
consumers want to be treated thesame every time.
So it's like I want to go intoa restaurant, I want to order
DoorDash, but yet I'm expectingthe same amount of care from you
(02:47):
as a brand, and it's up to youto meet me where I'm at, when
I'm there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And not just care, but like consistency.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Do you know why my daughter flipping loves to go to
Olive Garden and I'm like, fine, I do want the tour of Italy.
It's great, but it's becauseit's consistent.
You know exactly what you'regoing to get.
You know exactly what thefood's going to come out.
You know the salad's going tocome out.
You know the breadsticks aregoing to come out.
No matter how I order it, youknow what you're getting and
(03:15):
there's a lot of consistency inwhat we need.
Our lives are crazy.
Let's give people consistency.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I love that.
And consistency I mean when Italk about the three C's of
guest experience.
It's convenience, consistencyand connection right.
And I think tech a lot of timescan help us, especially with
the consistency to measurethings.
But when I always say you can'ttake the humans out of
hospitality, it's because whenit gets to that connection point
(03:42):
, aaron, you need that humantouch, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, I mean, the human experience is so important
, and so I say what we get to doin technology is emotional
connection and it's emotionaltechnology because there's still
this heart.
I have a heart, you have aheart.
Let's connect those.
But what connects those istechnology.
And when you find someone wholeads marketing technology, who
(04:09):
understands the emotion and thepsychology behind it and they
also understand the technologybehind it, that's a winner.
Those are some of the bestfolks I've ever worked with, are
people that understand thepsychology.
Right, it's your typicaltraditional marketers who
understand the creative and thefeelings that get evoked.
And then you marry that withtechnology and that's what wins.
(04:31):
But it's still human connection, it's just helping.
And again, it gets said allover and over and over but right
person, right time, right place, it's really that Technology
helps you get there.
It's the emotion that evokes iswhat connects with the human.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But Erin, that doesn't scale.
I have a lot of restaurants, Ihave a lot of customers coming
in.
I can't connect with all ofthem.
It doesn't scale.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It does scale.
We went from being the wingexperts and everybody was like,
well, you're the wing experts.
And I was like, but thatdoesn't connect with our people.
Right To get at it, get at itas a way of life.
That became their slogan.
I'm not sure if it's stilltheir slogan, but like it was
this idea of how you attack lifeand that connected and
(05:18):
resonated and it did scale.
When you find something thatthe psychology puts in place,
that is about the demographic,that is about the customer, it
will scale.
But it's finding the rightthing, because wing experts
didn't, it wasn't the rightthing.
Get at it how you get afterlife, whether it's you're riding
(05:38):
a bike or you're attackingwings, because you don't eat
wings they're not a simple foodto eat.
You get messy.
How you get after life.
That was exciting for Wingstopand it definitely resonated and
scaled.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I love that I right now am wearing a $45 Bucky
sweatshirt that I got?
Yes, I love Bucky's and whodoesn't?
I actually have two Bucky-ee'sshirts, but whenever I wear a
Buc-ee shirt, people smile.
When they see my shirt, To seea little beaver chipmunk.
I don't even know what it is.
Actually it's enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And do you need gas?
Do you need to do yourChristmas shopping?
Do you just need popcorn?
They have it all.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And maybe I want to buy a grill.
I don't know Right, it's likethey've got it all.
But here's the crazy thing,erin, I walked into a Buc-ee's
last weekend, 2 am in SouthCarolina, and the doors open.
I walk in, 2 am and what do Ihear?
I hear from four people Welcometo Buc-ee's.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
They pay well too.
They pay their employees wellthere.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And instantly.
So when we talk about howconnection can't scale, that is
so ingrained.
When was the last time I wasgreeted walking into a gas
station?
I know, I know, and so I bringthat up just as an example of
hospitality doesn't care aboutyour industry.
Hospitality cares about theguests feeling cared about.
(07:08):
That's what hospitality is.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And Buc-ee's has scaled.
Just to be clear, they havescaled, they've continued to
grow, they've been calculatedwith their growth, so they're
not just growing to grow andthey've done that on purpose,
right?
They give you an experience,exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And there's some technology there, yes, but it's
the heart of the people.
They hire the right people,they retain the right people and
they make sure that even at 2am, that those people are
friendly and helpful, which iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
You don't even know what to do.
You're probably shocked.
That's why you remember it,because you were like who's ever
greeted me at 2 am and at thefudge counter at 2 am.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
obviously I had to go walking all around the store
asking hey, is there anyoneworking the fudge counter?
No, I didn't.
You know what happened.
There were two people at thefudge counter.
That's insane, two of them andthey both said would you like a
sample?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
You're like absolutely I do it's 2 am.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
There are four people behind the beef jerky counter.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's crazy.
Yeah, they have a wonderfulestablishment.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
They do.
It creates raving fans who geton podcasts and talk about it.
So, talking about the guest, Ilove that your focus on
technology and marketing isreally getting focused on the
guest.
What do you think is one of themost important aspects of guest
experience nowadays?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Again it goes back to don't forget about the guest,
actually the human connection.
I said to someone this morning.
I said, oh, how's so-and-sodoing?
And he goes who's so-and-so?
And I said, you know so-and-so?
And I regurgitated thatgentleman's life story and he
goes oh, you mean this person?
And I said, oh well, I got hisname wrong.
But I remembered the whole lifestory and it's because it
(08:53):
really has to do with the human.
How do you connect with thathuman?
And I think, as people, we wantthat right.
I want nothing more than forsomeone to look at me and go I
see you.
I want that from a company too.
It turns out right.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, it's like unreasonable hospitality which
is all about love, right, and Ithink that that's the whole gist
of it.
And I just went to a conferenceit was two days of, I mean, a
thousand tactics of how toimprove the restaurant and it
was amazing.
And then I got up there and formy keynote I talked about the
(09:30):
human connection and these areall amazing things and please do
all of these and take notes andbring them back to your
restaurant.
But we need to remember why.
Why are we in this industrythat has got tough margins, it's
got tough employment, it goesup and down with the economy,
it's very volatile, because wecare.
(09:51):
That's what I feel like is soeasy to forget.
So what would you do?
You go into a restaurant brandand you're sitting down with a
C-suite and they say, aaron,what do we do?
We want to connect more withour guests.
What are some tactics that youwould give them?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, I want to just jump right into that.
I would ask them who is yourguest?
I've walked into restaurantcompanies when they're like we
need an app and I was like, okay, why, why do we need an app?
Why do we need this?
What do we know currently aboutour customer?
What don't we know?
And then I would move intotactics and sometimes it's as
easy as like, hey, you're justnot talking to them, you're just
(10:28):
not talking to them in theright way.
Again, at Wingstop, we had tochange how we talk to our
customer, the language that ourcustomer was using and the
language we were using.
It was like your father talkingto your kid and we didn't want
to be that person.
We wanted to be your friend.
Well, you talk to your friend adifferent way than a father
talking to a kid.
No-transcript, she reads it.
(11:10):
Talk to them where they're at.
It's that simple.
And again, I know I'msimplifying marketing in general
, but the idea of who are youtrying to speak to, how are you
trying to speak to them and then, where are you trying to speak
to them, is really the core ofmarketing.
Where are you trying to speakto them is really the core of
marketing.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
For a brand who might not have a whole marketing team
?
How do I go about discoveringwho are my customers?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It could be as simple as looking at Google Analytics
who's coming to your website andit will show you the demo.
It will literally tell you howold they are, what they look
like, what they're doing, whereelse they've been.
Start there, right, and that'sbasic information.
But then literally sit in yourstore.
Marketers, go inside.
I remember at Freebirds I had towork.
(11:57):
Everybody has to work in therestaurant.
I worked in the restaurant.
I'm rolling burritos and I wasnot good at it.
I was very, very horrible at it.
But I got to see everybody thatwas coming through and as I'm
rolling this burrito, this womanlooks at me and she's watching
me and I'm trying I wasstruggling to get it to fold and
she goes are you an idiot?
(12:18):
And I said I don't.
I might be I'm actually anincredible marketer but I might
not be a good burrito roller wecan all agree on that.
But I did get to see exactlywho came into the restaurants
and what they looked like andhow they spoke and what was
engaging to them and what theywore, and there's nothing better
than actually just observingpeople.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Isn't that kind of weird though.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't think so.
I mean it's free.
It turns out it's very free forme to stand in a restaurant.
I don't know, I probably lostthem some money when I was
working in there, but, like you,could watch all of these folks
come through and I could go.
All right, I understand who'scoming in at lunch.
I understand who's coming in atdinner.
All right, where do you thinkthey play?
Let's go target them there.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I love that I was being a bit facetious before,
because I did the same thingwith Ovation.
I remember in the beginning ofOvation I would sit there and
just watch people engage with QRcodes.
I would see them.
What did they talk about asthey picked it up?
How did they use at the back?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
of the day and that probably changed for you, right?
It changed pre-COVID,post-COVID, how people
interacted with QR codes.
It was night and day, I feellike, on how they interact now
than what they did Becausebefore they were like oh, qr
codes, do you have an app forthat?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And so which is why pre-COVID, we had iPad kiosks
with smiley faces on them, andthen post-COVID, everyone kind
of got on board with the QR codeand so didn't need that.
But there were so many things Ilearned by watching people use
our technology, so I think notonly restaurateurs, but any tech
person listening go watchpeople use your technology.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You just hit it on the head.
Tech people typically do notwatch.
They do not.
So when your technologydepartment and your marketing
department actually can cometogether is when you win.
And there's still so manysegmented and separated tech and
marketing departments inmarketing or, well, in
restaurants.
(14:18):
And when they can come togetherand go, hey, we care about the
emotion, because marketerstypically are like I can tell
you all about the customer andtechnologists go, I can tell you
about the technology.
When you get them to work handin hand, it's a win.
So go in and watch.
Bring your IT friend with you.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I love that.
I grew up in the advertisingspace and we would go and do not
just surveys, not just focusgroups, but ethnographies and an
ethnography is when you followsomeone around, not just to what
they're doing.
So I remember I was working fora project on a book company and
they have a bunch of bookstoresaround the country and I
(14:58):
followed one of their consumersaround.
I went with her, got to herhouse in the morning and she was
making breakfast for the kidsand getting them out the door
for school.
We sat down and we chatted fora while as she was doing laundry
and then she went shopping andwent to the bookstore.
We followed her around and thenwe went to lunch with her.
So we were together forprobably five hours and the
(15:19):
whole time just recording thewhole thing, Just understanding
who she was and why she made thedecision she did.
Exactly and how did thebookstore fit into her life and
the things that were around herhouse from the bookstore and how
she wanted to feel in thebookstore.
And as a result of this quoteunquote marketing experience,
the recommendation was in thebookstores they should lower
(15:42):
their shelves, because shewanted to feel more like a home
and she wanted to feel less likea library.
So they lowered the bookshelvesto give people you know so they
can see what's going on inother places and not feel like
they were trapped inside theseaisles.
So it reduced the skews, but itimproved the guest experience.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, and you just again hit something on the head,
which is we are not the mostimportant part of someone's day.
We'd like to believe we are,isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Isn't everyone thinking about Wingstop?
All day, every day, all day.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Exactly Like any restaurant they'll be like oh
well, obviously they want tocome to us.
I was like they might've madethat decision two minutes ago.
Right, they literally might'vebeen driving by.
But like figure out what pieceof that puzzle.
And like you followed heraround and you figured out where
that fit into her life and Idon't think we do that enough.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, love that, erin .
You and I could chat all dayand we do when we're at trade
shows, which is always fun.
You are one of the shininglights.
It's so fun to see you at tradeshows.
If you're at a trade show andyou see Erin, be prepared to
feel the love because she hassuch a dynamic energy about her.
You're awesome, erin.
You do so much great stuff forthis industry and I'm grateful
(16:56):
that you came on the podcast.
But before we leave, I want tohear who is someone that you
think deserves an ovation in therestaurant industry.
Who's someone that we should befollowing?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I mean there's lots of people, but I would say I
actually just spoke to her thismorning, jennifer Loper from C3.
She is also someone who Ibelieve that you can't have
without darkness and no matterwhat, she brings the light and
she is a beautiful shining starof that and I've known her for a
(17:28):
while now and every time sheshows up in a room she brings
light with her and I like to putmyself next to people who, I
feel, brighten my day too.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I love that.
Well, Erin, where can people go?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
to follow you Anywhere.
If you want to see myself andmy daughter doing TikTok dances,
you can find us on TikTok.
If you Snapchat and my daughterdoing TikTok dances, you can
find us on TikTok If youSnapchat anything.
Linkedin there's really noplatform that I'm not on.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And she's got over 16,000 followers on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, it's a lot.
I don't remember your name, butI remember your whole life
story, that's for sure.
I love that and thank you forremembering me.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Absolutely, erin Well , for grounding us in the guests
and for helping me pick mybirthday dinner this weekend,
olive Garden.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you for joining us onGiven Ovation.
Thank you, thanks for joiningus today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts
or your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
(18:26):
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
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