September 14, 2023 • 53 mins
Sam Collier, author & pastor of Story Church Atlanta, joins Vance and Zoe on the Give It Up Podcast to discuss planting a church in a major city, generosity, creating a record label, and how Sam is breaking the typical pastoral mold by pursuing many entrepreneurial endeavors all at once, to further Kingdom missions!
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Whenever God calls you to multiple things, he gives you
(00:03):
the grace for those multiplethings. And for those
individuals that have the graceon their life for a million
different plates, I want to tellthem the same thing that he told
me keep the plate spinning. Itmay seem like it's hard, because
it was hard for me at the time.
But the more you do it, Godwill, you know, he will open the
door and he will carry it withyour turn tech leader and the
(00:23):
millennial churchgoer exploringthe intersection of technology,
culture and faith, equipping youwith innovative strategies to
support you as you live out yourcalling leader churches with
confidence to step into thefuture together. This is the
give it up podcast. What's upguys, and welcome back to
another giveth podcast episode.
(00:44):
And this is going to be onewhere we're not even sure what
direction we're going to end upwith. Because we have the man,
the myth, the legend Sam Collierin the building. And for those
of you that do not know SamCollier, he was a pastor of
story church, Atlanta. And I saywas because now he's an apostle,
which he's gonna share moreabout. And Sam also does a
(01:05):
million different things. Welike to call him a pastor
printer. He's a mutual friend ofboth Vance and I. And so we are
just absolutely thrilled anddelighted to have him on the
podcast today. Come on. No, youhave to jump in. You have to
jump in there. What? No, thatwas an introduction of a
(01:27):
lifetime. I feel like my contentisn't as great as that
introduction. So I'm going totry to live up to it on these
next couple of minutes.
I love it. Well, Sam, you and Iactually met I don't know, maybe
18 ish months ago, maybe alittle longer through our mutual
friend, Pastor Adam Mesa inRancho Cucamonga.
(01:49):
And ever since he introduced us.
We've been friends. We've beenfollowing each other's journey.
God is obviously doing a mightywork through you. And story
church. I can't wait to dig intothat more. But I want to say hi
to our pod listeners real quick.
Man, yeah, I would love to I ama massive fan. I feel like
(02:11):
you're fanning I'm fanning ofoverflow of vans. I always say
this. And I don't know if we'reable to talk about this
publicly. But I've had a fewinvestors or individuals asked
me about the value propositionof what overflow is, and why
maybe they should invest or notinvest in. And I say guys,
(02:32):
listen, listen, the technologyis next level. The innovation is
off the chain. But the wildcardis Vance.
That is the wild guard. He is.
He's your prophetic. You arefuturistic, right. I often
compare you and please don't sayI'm, you know, being
(02:55):
blasphemous. I often compare youto Gary Vee. Right? Like,
you're like a prophet.
You know, for what? for what'snext, because Gary will straight
up prophesied to you curse youout, and then tell you what's
happening in the next 20 years.
And I really feel like that'swhat God is, you know, building
(03:15):
you up as for this generation,and we need it. So I'm, it's an
honor for me to be on this show.
And I'm excited to just be amongthe ranks. I want to I want to
talk about this real timebecause I I actually don't view
myself as a prophet. Right. Andwe can break that down
theologically. How to unpackthat. But one of the first times
(03:38):
I got on a call with you, youdid something really interesting
never happened to me before.
We're talking about overflow.
We're talking about a fundraisethat you were doing at a time
capital campaign. I believe youwere believing for a certain
amount to take sorry, church tothe next level. And you said
this, I remember it like it wasyesterday. You go Vance,
prophesy over me.
(03:59):
And so what I know about theprophetic is, you know, I'm not
trying to even read your mail.
All I'm trying to do isencourage you and to pray God's
Word over the situation. Andthat's what we did. And we
actually saw some miracleshappen after that, I believe.
100% Well, he says he's not Youokay, I'll just I'll say it like
(04:21):
that. He has a prophetic giftguys. He's able to hear what the
voice of the Lord is saying andrelease it into the atmosphere.
And the reason I said prophesyover me is because you were
already prophesying. And so Iwas like, uh, can you keep going
because like, you're already inthis in this zone. And you
(04:43):
actually prophesied a certainand I a specific number that
somebody was gonna give us and Iwas I thought it was crazy. And
and I'm not really into and Iknow you're not into We're not
into the snakes. And the youknow, the weird the infant
five months, your life's gonnachange kind of thing. We're not
really into that, right where itis we wanted to be normal. So
(05:05):
the fact that you gave a numberwas very weird and very, like, I
took a kind of serious, becauseI wasn't my he doesn't do stuff
like this. And we got that exactnumber. And I just couldn't. I
mean, because it was kind ofwhile you like somebody from
outside of your ministry isgoing to donate, this thing is
going to happen. And I was like,that's not gonna What are you
talking about? And someonecalled me literally, it was
(05:27):
like, I gotta get rid of somemoney before the end of the
year. And it was the exactamount that you spoke. So you're
prophetic to me. Hey, man, Ithat that encourages me and
obviously got God has all theglory. What was cool about that,
(05:48):
and zone knows a littlebackground, because she's
obviously on the overflow teamas well. It came through crypto.
Come on somebody God can workthrough crypto. Yep.
Yep, yep. It came 100% throughcrypto. It's why, you know,
look, let's just pause, give acommercial break, download the
overflow app today.
(06:11):
Because it's awesome. We haveused it. We're trying to make
our way back around, right.
Like, I love what Zoe said inthe beginning, you get your
finance teams, and you're like,how do we get back, I'm like,
overflow is the next, we got tomake our way back around every
day, we are coming down thehighway, back to the overflow
team. Because when we were usingthe app, it just blessed us
(06:31):
tremendously. And as you know,we've been through a lot of ups
and downs and rounds and rounds.
And so we're making our way backon over. So I'm a lifetime
overflow member, right, I justwant to say that and I just want
to tell everybody out there, youneed to download the app,
because it transformed ourministry in so many different
ways. And we're excited for whenit will do that again.
(06:55):
Love that. That's super kind ofyou. Thank you, Sam, for saying
that. Um, what I want to talkabout with you is, you said
you're doing a ton of differentthings there. It seems like
you're the type of person whoputs all four burners on the
stove on at the same time, youare not cooking with just one
dish, you have all of thesethings happening.
(07:16):
And I want to start with peopleputting pastors in a box of this
is what you do. A pastor doesthis says this acts like this.
And you just knocked all fourwalls of that box down. And I
want to kind of unpack yourmindset of how being a pastor
(07:36):
can be more than just inside thefour walls of a church and how
you actually extend your reachand your ministry reach way
beyond church ministry. What abig question.
Zoe, you coming in? Hi, I, wegot to pause for a moment and
shout out Brad lomenick. And thereason I want to shout him out
(08:00):
is because he said something tome, in the middle of my pastoral
journey, which I'm going to I'mgoing to talk about why he said
this, because I think it goes inline with your statement about
pastors kind of doing one thing,I do think there's some truth to
why that end ends up happening.
And Brad kind of had to shake meout of where I was going. And he
texted me and he said, Hey, Sam,I just want to remind you to
(08:24):
keep the plates spinning, keepthe plates spinning. And I was
like, huh, he was like, Whateveryou do, keep the plates
spinning. And I was like, Well,I got so much to do, I'm
focused, I gotta get thisorganization off the ground. And
he said, I got you, but keep theplates spinning and he
disappeared.
And what I thought about that, Imean, even to this day, but it
(08:48):
was something I thought aboutfor months, because it at the
time, I could not imaginekeeping the plates spinning.
Because I had one big plate thatwas spinning out of control. And
that's kind of like whatpastoring is, it's when it let
me say this way. That's whatpastoring can be. If you're
(09:08):
leading an organization, that isby the grace of God, hopefully
making a massive amount ofimpact in the city.
If you're doing it well, andVance knows this, probably more
than most and Zoe I know, youknow, at amplify and everything
that you've seen happen, youknow, if you're doing it well it
can be all consuming and attimes to really focus in on it
(09:31):
like it's its own organism and,and
organization in itself. It isit's a plate that has plates
within it. Right? So you'relike, Hey, you want me to spin
more plates than this one platethat has a million plates what
is happening and but but heencouraged me with that because
he said to me, you know yourunique design and your unique
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call is to the body of Christ tothe local church.
but it's also to serve theglobal church as well. So and I
just, I just believe this, and Ibelieve that he knows this. You
know, whenever God calls you tomultiple things, he gives you
the grace for those multiplethings. And for those
(10:15):
individuals that have the graceon their life for a million
different plates, I want to tellthem the same thing that he told
me keep the plate spinning. Itmay seem like it's hard, because
it was hard for me at the time.
But the more you do it, Godwill, you know, he will open the
door, and he will carry it withyou. So I don't know if that
answered the question. But it'sprobably mentality around it is
I got to keep the platesspinning. Yeah. Well, I want to
(10:38):
talk about a couple of thoseplates that you have. Yeah,
those plans? Exactly. Yeah.
Please, I mean,you tell me which ones you want
to talk about? I'll tell you theones that's on the top of my
head. Just say all those things.
Yeah, okay. We, we just signed adeal with Capitol Christian
(11:03):
music group. And CapitolChristian is about three
different labels in one. SoMotown gospel, Capitol Christian
label group, and then anorganization company called
rethink.
And belonging CO was signed torethink Sam Rivera sign the
rethink, you kind of go down thelist of these individuals, and
(11:24):
we did a direct deal withrethink capital.
So we're in the Motown gospelcapital Christian rethink house.
And it really wasn't, the dealtook about nine months to make
happen. But we really felt likeGod was calling our house to
produce a sound that wasn't thatdidn't just come from Sunday
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morning, but also created anopportunity and a platform for
creatives around the country whojust needed a leg up. And so the
brand is the story collected, ifyou go on Spotify, Apple Music,
or whatever, you can look thatup. Many y'all know my
background is music. So Godasked me to kind of give up
music to for ministry. And it'sbeen about 10 to 12 years since
(12:08):
I've done music. And on thislevel, and God has, you know,
he's brought it back. And sowe're excited about that we got
about three records out. And wejust, you know, again, my thing
was, I was I was the artiststhat I that we're trying to get
now I needed an opportunity, Ineeded a leg up, and I didn't
want to have to go to the worldto get it. So that's what we're
(12:29):
that's one of the things thatwe're doing.
As well as pastoring.
As well, as you know, at somepoint, we're going to launch a
church network for more churchesthat are wanting to be a part of
what we're doing. And we'reexcited about that. Who I kick
off, I got a new book coming outsoon called dream killers, don't
tell anybody that's like anexclusive. We got a new book I'm
(12:53):
working on as well as some otherthings. It's so good. Sam, talk
to us about the business side,too. And the reason why I want
to go into all these differentplaces, because I do believe
it'll serve as inspiration andeven not inspiration, just
creative thought of like, hey,you know, some other people are
thinking about their approach toministry in a dynamic way. You
(13:13):
talk to me about some work thatyou've done with Chick fil A and
other business endeavors. What'syour mindset around business?
Yeah, I, before pastoring, I hada, I think some of the plays
that Brad lomenick wasreferencing,
that I kind of put on pause. Andnow I've started to bring back a
little bit, I had a bigconsulting agency. We had two
(13:35):
one was called the resourcegroup that was me and Tony, my
wife shout out to her. And thenanother one was called call your
creative services, which I stillkind of have now. And one of the
things that we did, we consulteda lot of organizations and
several different areas. One wasdefinitely diversity and
multiculturalism. So that wasone, you know, organizations
(13:56):
that were predominantly, youknow, Caucasian, in terms of
their constituency. And also intheir leadership, were trying to
figure out how do we turn theship without losing everybody on
the boat that we already have.
So we helped a lot with thatvanderbloemen, we had a
partnership with vanderbloemenThat was serving a bunch of
churches around the country, andwe were just helping to speak
(14:18):
and to that.
Call your creative services andalso the resource group also
helped. We had a big partnershipwith thrive and financial at one
time, thrive. It was up inMinneapolis, and they actually
had an organ There was once atime with thrive. It was three
different divisions and they hada church division. And they also
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had a holdings division. I feellike I'm using a lot of business
terms. They had a through aholdings division was just
simply meant they own like15,000 companies. And in that
division was an organizationcalled bright pink financial
which focused specifically onlove and money. And so they were
trying to figure out how to doinnovative things.
So innovation was one of thethings that we noticed, was a
(15:04):
massive challenge. And reallybig organizations
that were doing well. In otherwords, they were so busy working
in the business, they didn'treally have time to work on the
business. And they had theseinnovative projects and ideas,
but not the manpower to eitherget it done, or the time or the
margin. So our organization camein and helped them innovate. So
(15:27):
for some, it was, hey, we'retrying to go from here to there,
you know, what do you see aroundhelping us do that with this new
product that we have? And thenwe will come alongside and say,
well, there's a few differentitems that you can do this
through some concept, maybe youdo a concert series, maybe you
launch a social campaign, all ofthese other things. That's one
(15:47):
angle, and then we will helpthem implement it. Or they will
come to us and say, here's somethings we've been wanting to do,
but don't have the time to doCan you help us do that. And so
we've I mean, we've partneredwith YouVersion, on different
products on different projectsthat we've been able to do
together. Chick fil A was onedefinitely being on the road
with them and hosting and doingsome other things. When shape is
another. So that was my life.
Before all, you know, before Iwas had something to do every
(16:11):
Sunday, and you still have theseplates spinning. So I guess my
question is this, and I hopethis helps pastors, senior
church leaders, think about thisas well, because maybe there's
some plates that God has put inother people's lives as well.
Are these doors, one that you'vebusted open? Or that you've just
walked through? Like? How do youmeasure if you know, your grace
(16:34):
for something? Obviously, youhave people like Brad lomenick,
to encourage you to keep thespinning. But even without that,
how do you assess Sam?
Wow.
Um, I thinkI think God puts passions in us
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and lead us toward a certaindirection.
And the, you know, I often talkabout, again, we're talking
about this book, often talkabout things that keep you up at
night. And when it's two or 3amin the morning, and you're
going, Ah, it's just a somethinghere. I don't know, the full
(17:17):
overflow story. But But what Ido know, the answer is that
there was a season where youwere and I think you still are
CFO, at one time at this at thischurch that you at. And all of a
sudden, there's this idea thatyou birth, and now it's like, I
would imagine that there was amoment you said, I don't think I
can just leave this thing at thechurch that I'm at, I gotta
(17:39):
there's a there's a passion inme to help other churches.
Something I believe was maybedrawing you out. And, you know,
I think we all have thosefeelings. But the other thing I
would I would say aroundassessing is, you know, God will
give passions and then we havepassions as well. So I think the
other question that you'reasking is, how do we decipher
between my passion and God'spassion for me? Right.
(18:04):
And one of the things I will sayis, you know, it's a really
simple principle, it's gonnaseem Elementary, but it really
does work, follow the favor,follow the faith. So, I had a
mentor of mine telling me thatonce you want to discern the
voice of God and direction inyour life, follow the favor. How
do you know that God is openingthis door? How do you know this
(18:26):
is some guy wants you to do,there's gonna be favor attached
to it, people are going to keepasking you to do it, doors are
going to fly open, there is acertain thing that happens in
our life that kind of gets outof control. And it's that thing
that we don't and it's to think,Vance, you said it, that there
are moments where we need toknock down doors, but
oftentimes, there's this inbetween phase between us
(18:49):
knocking down the doors, andhaving the idea in the passion,
where God just starts to move.
And it's in that space that youcan kind of decipher, you know,
the will of God because he'smoving and he's okay, that's not
me. People are calling me peopleare asking me, I keep running
into this unique problem indifferent places. I'm in the gas
station, and somebody said thisto me, I showed up at a
conference and somebody broughtthis topic up and I had a
(19:10):
solution. Wait, what's happeningpeople are either these these
crazy, I somehow ended up at theNike Headquarters I'm just
giving really weird and randomoccurrences these are the types
of things that God does whenhe's trying to get a message to
you I want you to move this wayso I would say follow the favor
and you if there's favorattached to it, it's probably
(19:32):
something that the Lord wantsyou to lean into. Gaza XO that's
a threads right there. Followthe favor.
sure that that's one that youwere gonna post that 10 on 10 on
and just like little breadcrumbshoping that favors at the end of
it right?
Favorite Yeah, I love I love Ilove the idea of follow the
(19:54):
favor because it is reallywalking with the Holy Spirit.
Right?
You know itIf you're single, and you're
trying to ask out a girl, andshe said no, like 20 times, but
probably not favor in that,actually probably a restraining
order in that. So it's not aboutpersistence in that situation.
(20:15):
But in business, for example, Ilove this idea that you have
around movement, right? BecauseGod is moving. And so I talk to
people all the time all youknow, God has a business in me.
God spoke to me about abusiness.
And they want to be directed byGod, but God can't steer
something that's not moving. Andso oftentimes, oftentimes, it's
(20:36):
just taking steps, right andfollowing the favor of God
through that journey. So I wantto do quick market research with
you because the premise of thispodcast is a little bit the
combination of of a pastor aswell as a millennial churchgoer,
which you obviously are.
When you see pastors beingmultifaceted, kind of like Sam,
(21:00):
you know, what does that do foryou? Because I've seen haters on
the other side of this type ofstuff. I've also seen people
that love it, like, where do youwhere do you land? Let's have an
open and honest conversation.
Yeah, I love this question. Ithink it definitely piques your
curiosity at first, I'm like,how, how can you do all of this,
let alone do all of it well, andwith excellence, right, in a way
(21:20):
that's honoring to God. And thenit also gives me hope, because
I, in my work, there was a longtime where I'm like, I had this
mindset of because I waslegitimately working in
ministry, and coming to the endof that season, to use a church
term. I found myself thinking,well, how can I do anything else
(21:42):
other than ministry, totallynegating the fact that
everything you do can beministry or ministry adjacent.
Like you can still be servingthe Lord outside of the context
of the church building andoutside of a ministry, nonprofit
organization. So I think, Ithink when I see pastors doing
that, it's really encouragingbecause it means they have the
(22:02):
same mentality I do. And they'renot putting a lid on their
sphere of influence that God hasgraced them for. So good. Well,
you said something superinteresting in that where, you
know, there is this thought ofman, how can we do all these
things with excellence? Sothat's kind of what I want to
(22:24):
peel back. Another layer on Samis like, you know, these plates
are spinning. How do you makesure that it's divine direction,
not distraction for you?
Excellent. I, I could talk aboutthis for an hour, if not five,
but I won't. I've got a millionthings popping in my head right
(22:45):
now. So I'm going to try tochoose one. That is, I'm telling
myself stay focused, sound stayfocused. And
and I think that that's actuallya great segue into how to do it.
Well, based on what I've learnedfocus, right. Like, I think what
we're talking about is focus.
And I think the truth about itis, you can't do anything, well,
(23:05):
that you're not focused on ifyour focus is split.
It doesn't matter how great youare at it. If your focus is
split, it's not going to be asgreat as it needs to be as
opposed to if your focus is onsomething. So the question
becomes, and I have to throwthis I'm throwing this to what I
(23:25):
learned vicariously livingthrough Andy Stanley, and orange
and the catalyst world and allof these other things. The
question becomes, how do you geta heavy amount of focus on a
project that you're working on?
Because the church is its own?
Right? It's its own entity. It'sI want to eat, I can say
(23:50):
monstrosity, again, if you'redoing it, well, if you're doing
it, well, that's the other ifyou're just like, Alright, I'm
out here. I'm just I'm justshowing up the bread Bible
study. If you're doing it, well,it's a monstrosity, right? It's,
it's a lot of money coming in.
It's a lot of money going out.
It's a lot of souls being saved.
It's a lot of marriages beingrestored. It's a lot of people
(24:10):
being set free, and you'rereaching a city. So if you're
doing it, well, it's amonstrosity. So how do you keep
doing that well, and start arecord label, and launch a
conference and build a churchnetwork and do all of those
well? Well, it's a Chick fil A,you know, Mark Miller says this
all the time. He just resignedor not resign, I guess he
(24:34):
retired as the vice president ofleadership at Chick fil A. And
he said this high performanceteams do high performance
things. And that statement woundtransformative to me, I
piggyback that on top of what Ilearned at NorthPoint, just by
being around you know, you sawall of these different things
coming out of North Point. Youknow, Andy, at one time was a
(24:57):
part of startingcatalyst which was just massive
conference. It was him it wasReggie Joyner. It was John
Maxwell and and written andLandy Donahoe, and they build
these this 16,000 person, crazything that didn't giant impact.
Wow NorthPoint is like 30,000members at the time.
And you're just I'm jumping fromlocation to location, at North
(25:20):
Point 7000 person, on average ata location. And it's all of
these things, then all of asudden, you see orange come out
of North Point, or, you know,come out of Reggie Joyner who's
at North Point, but there's thisheavy affiliation. And then they
launch a 10,000 personconference. And then you see big
stuff. You're like, What arey'all doing?
And one of the things that theytaught me, they echoed the
(25:41):
statement of Mark Miller,here's another Chick fil A ism,
when we have a problem, we put aleader on it. So for me,
for me, my question is alwayslike, literally, Michael, I'm
gonna bring you into my work. Myquestion right now is, hey,
capital is awesome. I need aleader that can be focused on
(26:05):
this every week.
And doesn't mean I can't overseeit doesn't mean I can't guide it
doesn't mean I can't take itaway, I'm always going to be in
the COC. Like, at the church,um, you know, Zoe, you know,
hilariously talked about mebeing an apostle, right is
senior pastor and apostle is mynew title, but it just speaks
(26:25):
into a function. And thefunction is, I'm in more of a
governing seat than I am in thepractitioner, see,
in order to make this thing run.
And so for me, that's what Iwould say, I have found, if
you're gonna do a lot of things,or a few things well, and those
few things have have to have aheavy amount of focus on, you
(26:47):
have to find a high capacityleader that you can partner
with, that then builds a highcapacity team within that
organization, or within thatspecific initiative that will
carry it out when you're havingto split your focus or jump from
one thing to the next to go,Hey, is this rolling? And is
(27:07):
this rolling? And if you can doit, well, then now you can have
right your, your your meeting ofgovernors, and we sit around the
round table and go, how'severything going? Here's where
we want to go. So, ladies, Iknow it's not easy. My capacity
is directly correlated to thepeople around me. To to those
right, you're talking aboutempowerment. I mean, this is one
(27:30):
small example. Right? But theygive it a podcast, right? XO
largely owns a lot of thedirection and what we do for the
given up podcast, so speak, fromyour perspective really quick on
somebody that's empowered, andthere's a lot more things that
you do. But what are things thatallow you to be empowered? What
are those things that allow youto be released? I guess?
(27:53):
Yeah, I think a big one that'sbeen really influential is
someone speaking life into you,because I'm one of those people
who this is actually my nextquestion. I want to I want to
get into his this element offearlessness. Because I think
that someone can cast a vision,a high level vision. And the
first thing I think isn't, Iknow the next step to take it's
(28:15):
how on earth are we going to getthere? So I think people that
they can come alongside andempower you speak life into you,
and then collaborate on whatthey believe the next right step
is, and what I like to callmyself and how I see the world
is really as a blueprint runner.
I'm like, you just give me theblueprints and say, we're
(28:36):
working on the kitchen first.
And then I'm like, got you, youknow. And so I think that's a
big element of it is becausethere's so many people in the
faith space, who are so great atcasting vision. But how do you
take this and drop it right hereto 100 levels lower to we're
(28:57):
just working on the first step.
I think I think that's one ofthe biggest things for me.
So good, so good.
That kind of makes me thinkyou have these plates spinning.
We've talked about how it'simportant, Sam, for us to find
leaders over each and every oneof those xo is mentioning, you
(29:18):
know, for a leader that'sempowered for her what's
important is to get direction onthe next step or what the
priority is, how do youcontextualize that in your
world? Let's take the musiclabel, for example. You find
leaders, you find a team, how doyou take your big vision, your
big ambition? And how do youbreak it down? What's that
thought process? Like?
(29:42):
Wow.
Ihad a season in my life. I feel
like these are all bigquestions. I had a season of my
life where I I was stokedbugling with my, I don't want to
say with my faith, I think Iwould probably say with the
(30:05):
outworking of my faith. I wasstruggling with the outworking
of my faith. So I believed inJesus. And it's actually
everything that Zoe is talkingabout.
I had this big vision our Ithink people will identify with
this vast Do you remember thisseason? And Zoe, I know you
probably do as well, what it waslike conferences everywhere. I
(30:28):
mean, leadership conferences,and you know, every everywhere
you went, it was like this,that.
And it was it was kind of beforeit was definitely before the
virtual conferences. And it wasit was just it was conference
everywhere. And I remember goingto all these conferences, you
know, and leaving the conferenceso excited. And you know, Louie
(30:52):
Giglio, will hop on stage, andhe would be like, you know,
you're, there's somebody in theaudience, you're not just called
to the church, you're called tostart a movement, you know, to
meet or you're called to gostarted skateboarding? Dang it,
you're called to go?
You're called to gorevolutionize the tattoo
(31:13):
industry, right? You just likeall of these things, every
sphere, every space?
Yes. And I remember leavingthose conferences going, what?
Like, how do I do that? Oh, am Igonna start a movement.
(31:35):
And but like, I had all thisvision, and they enlarged my
capacity, they were enlarging mycapacity. Right? Now I'm up at
3am going, how am I going tostart a tattoo movement, right.
I mean, it's not technically atattoo movement, but you get my
point. And, and honestly, it ledto a season of depression. But
to be really honest, because Idid not know, I was gonna start
(31:59):
a movement. But I kept hearingthat a movement was in me.
So I went on a journey ofdiscovery. And like when you
talk about the idea of like,working out your faith and
studying to show yourselfapproved and owning your own
development, that's the season Iwent to, because I got to a
(32:22):
point where I was like, Man, Ican't just keep hearing the big
message. And not knowing thepracticality of the message.
Come on, it's impossible for meto know the practicality of the
message from going toconferences, and church every
Sunday, find someone to sit. Sothat's what I'm talking about
(32:43):
mentorship, right.
And this is where mentorshipstarts to get amazing. But that
was one of the I started to goon this journey of going, I need
to find somebody whohas done this well before. And I
need to. And there were so manymentors at the time, that I
don't even remember who told methis for the first time. But I
(33:06):
remember one person or a fewpeople saying to me, you've got
to learn how to go all the wayto the end. And then Bill
backwards to the beginning. Andthat's the journey I started
going on. And we call it weactually we had an organization
at the time and a group ofindividuals that were like we
were running together. And itwas kind of you know, it's the
(33:28):
one the mafia and all theChristian mafia, but it was
like, it was a kind of like themastermind groups now that you
have, like early on. And wecrafted and coined a term called
Peak State is like, what is thepeak state of your vision? What
is the peak state of overflowwas the peak state of story
church was the peak state of allof these different visions of,
(33:49):
of capital and story records.
And the story was like, where dowe ultimately want to go? And we
would get a whiteboard out, wewould draw a picture of that.
And then we would go right nowwhat do we need to do from there
to get back to where we are now?
And that helped me a lot withthe practicality of the moment
of going, okay, so if I want togo down the street, I gotta take
(34:12):
one step out of the house.
Oh, no, the first thing I gottaget shoes. Right. And so let me
get shoes. I gotta get running.
I gotta get walking shoes. Andthen after my walking shoes, I
got to take one step out of thehouse, and then oh, I think I
got to do 20 of those. I got tomake sure I have some water for
the journey. You know. So that'smy simple as we can go deeper if
(34:34):
you want, but that's my thing.
It's it's brilliant. And I thinkit's insightful because another
key word I heard from you ismentorship. Right? And all
throughout this podcastrecording, I've heard you say
Brad lomenick or, or a Chick filA is. It's clear, Andy Stanley,
it's clear that you are abyproduct of a lot of the people
(34:57):
that you've invited into yourlife to speak
into your life. Paul says,Follow me, as I follow Christ.
Why didn't Paul just say followChrist?
Right? Because we don't onlyneed to follow Christ, right? We
need to see people also pursuingChrist and what that looks like.
Yeah, and that's why he addedthat in. And so, uh, yes, we
(35:21):
follow Jesus directly. But also,we need people in our world to
show us what it looks like tofollow Jesus follow Jesus. Yes,
we can have an idea of businessin our head. But at the same
time, we need examples of peoplethat have done it well.
And that applies to everysphere, and every space that we
(35:42):
set that we set our feet.
I want to talk I want to talkabout story church, because
we've been talking a lot aboutthings outside of story, church,
but story church in and ofitself, is a blessing. It is
blowing up, people are beingsaved, people aren't being
baptized. I've been seeing itfrom afar, hearing things
(36:02):
directly from mutual friendslike Adam Mesa that's been able
to speak at your church andhearing the direct report of the
people surrounding thisphenomena, this very
inspirational journey, talkabout what's happened, what's
God doing in story church? Who,um,
I, you know, he's doing what hewants to do, right? Like,
(36:26):
it's what I've been describingour journey, as thus far has
been like, I feel like I'msitting in the back of a Tesla.
And there's no driver. And hisdriver.
Right is driving his movement,switching lanes, there's an
address, I'm just in thebackseat going, where you want,
(36:47):
you know, God, what do you wantus to go. And that's what it's
been like, he's just got, youknow, we just got a building,
that we're still we're breakingground in the next couple of
weeks on this building 10,000square feet, where year over
year and a little over a yearold.
In terms of as an organizationbefore that, as you know, many,
many people know we wereHillsong Atlanta, right for like
(37:10):
nine months. So I always sayHillsong birth story church,
right. And that was a, that wasa season in itself, of just ups
and downs. And, you know, thePhoenix Rising right from a lot
of the things that we weredealing with at that particular
time, but it's just been unbel.
It's been a miracle. To bereally honest.
(37:34):
I won't say the name of somebodythat said this to me, but he
said, listen, the amount of theamount of pressure and the
amount of challenge that yourorganization has been through in
such a short time.
It should equal you not evenbeing here. The fact that your
organization is still here, andhas doubled in size and revenue
(37:57):
is unbelievable. And so we justgive it we know we give it to
God. And now you know, we feelthe Lord doing he's he's
birthing what we call anapostolic house. And the best
way for me to explain this is totalk about an organization
called African new life. Andthere's a big organization
called African who live out ofRwanda. And there's a guy named
(38:22):
Pastor Charles, his name isPastor Charles. He's a Rwandan.
He is a child of the Rwandangenocide.
We recently went to Rwandabecause we support our churches
now sponsoring some kids overand Rwanda, but he calls their
ministry and apostolic ministry.
Now he doesn't use language likeApostle Paul, but he believes in
what they what you would callfivefold ministry. So he his
(38:43):
gifting would be more apostolic,and they've got pastors and then
some that are prophetic, somethat are more evangelistic, all
of these other things.
But it was the first time for methat I was able to really see
what I believe.
The New Testament talks aboutwhen it says when it talks about
(39:05):
this fivefold government, andhow it can produce a certain
thing in the earth. Here is thisguy who was a child of the
genocide, millions and millionsof Rwanda is killed. And as a
response to this, he becomes hegets his doctorate, and plants
this church. His church now has10 locations. His church decided
(39:30):
to becomea House of Hope for the region.
He calls it taking kids frompoverty to leadership. So from
an apostolic perspective, allapostolic ministry is is the
idea of taking ground. That'sthe idea. It's just the idea of
taking ground. What does it meanfor our church to be in a city
(39:50):
to operate in the kingdom and totake ground in that city? Over
over a certain every sphereevery right we go back there
again. So you go to his, his hisschool, his his churches, vans,
and attached to his church is ahospital. Cool. I mean a real
hospital, like that they builtfrom the ground up, they built a
(40:14):
hospital,from the ground up six floors,
nurses, doctors, I mean, all ofthis stuff that you need in
combination with the government,you go to the other side of the
property, they've got orphanageson the other side of the
property, that are taking kidsthat have grown up in poverty,
you go to one side, they've gottheir own seminary. And they've
(40:36):
and they've done these, theseorganizations. And this, I would
just say, Can theseconglomerates all around the
country of Rwanda, to the pointwhere they have their own
primary school from kindergartenup to
12th grade, and then obviously,they have their own university
and they have their ownseminary. Their school is so
(40:59):
successful as the number oneschool in the country, the
number one school in thecountry, connected to a church.
And he looks at me while we'rewalking around, he says, Sam,
this is apostolic ministry. Thisis the this is not what we've
seen in the state, where weprofit is so and so. And it is
like, come on now. What are wedoing the weird stuff that we're
(41:21):
talking? We're not talking aboutthat we're just talking about
bare bones? What does it meanfor the kingdom to invade a city
and to invade a space. That'swhat we're attempting to do at
story church, create centers ofreconciliation, one around race
for sure. But also centers ofreconciliation for our city that
(41:42):
launches leaders all around thecity and all around our world
today. So that's what we'redoing, bro. And we got, we
finally got our building, HQ, ahospital, an orphanage part of
the church, part of the buildingpart of the fabric part of the
architecture. This is God'splan, the book rise of
(42:03):
Christianity by Rodney Stark, mypastor read it several years
back, and it changed my wholeframework around why
Christianity went viralChristianity where I will,
because it met practical needswhen it got off the ground.
Right. And so you look athospitals today. It actually
birthed from the church, theactual idea of a hospital,
(42:25):
right? There's a, there'sthere's the cross with the snake
around it, right? Because itbirthed from Christians, right.
People don't really fullyunderstand that or maybe even
appreciate that that conceptcame from the local church, even
if you go all the way back toLeviticus, and the things that
God would instruct his people atthat time to do like wash their
(42:46):
hands. That was hygiene thatpreserved God's people in a
season where the Roman Empirewas killing babies, right?
Christians, the people of theway, they were pro life, they
were pro family. And that's whenjust on a practical basis,
Christian families multiplied.
Right. And so it's so cool tosee that this is coming back.
(43:09):
It's been said thatapostles or people that have
apostolic ministries, have apioneering spirit. Yeah, it's
also been said that you canalways tell a pioneer by the
arrows on their back. Ooh,right. So your level of wanting
to be a pioneer, is your levelof your ability to
(43:38):
carry pain and door, yourability to be excellent is Your
ability to endure. And so I say,I'm inspired. I also say, We're
praying for you.
Because we know this, thismantle to carry on continuing to
(44:00):
spin plates or to continuing totake territory is not for the
faint hearted. is definitely notfor the faint hearted. Yeah. Is
going to go his own way, though.
Yeah. I was going to add to thatby basically just asking you how
you step into these territorieswhere you don't have any
frameworks that work in yourcontext. So basically, you're
starting from the ground up, andmost people would hit that and
(44:22):
say, No, I'm afraid to do that.
You really walk into these newspaces? fearlessly. One? How
have you learned to fear alittle bit less and to what
would you say to someone else inthis exact same position?
Wow. Um,you know, Dr. King, said that,
(44:44):
you know, a movement starts oneperson at a time.
And, you know, it's interestingthat his sister is oldest living
Sister,or the oldest member of the King
family, his sister, Dr.
Christine King Ferris justpassed away this past week. And
(45:10):
this past Sunday, I went to herhome going service at Ebenezer
Baptist Church. And in it, theywere telling a story about how
Dr. Martha King Jr, gave hislife to Jesus, which was very
interesting. He was around sevenyears old. And he went down to
the altar at Ebenezer, and gavehis life to Jesus, not because
(45:33):
he knew what was going on,because his sister gave her gave
her life. And, or was talkingabout giving her life and he
said, I don't want her to be thefirst one. I gotta go before
her. So that's how he gives hislife. So the whole premise of
the sermon,or the eulogy was what happens
when sisters stand up, right.
And it was, it was such abeautiful ceremony. But in this
(45:56):
in thisat this funeral, where we're,
you know, watching the the old,the last
sibling of Dr. King, Pat, youknow, be eulogized, you're
looking at the future generationof a movement that started a
long time ago. So for me, when Ithink about the idea of
(46:20):
a movement, starting one personat a time, the question that I
always have, when we talk aboutindividuals, you know, that
fearlessness and all these otherthings is, who's going to be the
next one to start it. Right?
God's calling all of us to takeground, he just is when we think
about the Great Commission, and,you know, Jesus has kind of
final words to us in the world,it's, Hey, I gotta go, I'm
(46:42):
leaving to help her. But I wantyou to go to all the four
corners of the earth, preach thegospel, make disciples, right,
bringing the kingdom it is ourmandate to go. And I would dare
say this, if we don't go, who isgonna go.
And I'm not gonna get too crazy,because I could preach for the
next three hours about this nextthing, but the enemy doesn't
(47:06):
have a problem going,doesn't have a problem going.
He will go, and he will inspireindividuals to go and act on his
behalf. We talked about thescripture, that thief comes to
steal, kill and destroy, but Ihave come to you may have life
have been more abundantly, hedoes not have a problem
stealing, killing and destroy heis going with. So for me, my
(47:30):
statement is always, you know,if he didn't have problems
going, we cannot have a problem.
taking the first step, somebodyhas to take the step for God's
mission to be done in the earth.
So I just want to encouragesomebody with that statement of
if you don't go who will go. Andlet's let the weight of a
generation sit on our shoulders,and empower us to do it afraid.
(47:56):
Because if we can do it afraid,usually that fear will start to
dissipate, the more we go.
TD Jakes always says this fearcan be in the car just can't
have the driver's seat.
You can you can be in thepassenger seat, but you can't
drive. But you can be rightthere. So that's my
encouragement. And that to me,and the answer to the question,
(48:17):
you know, for me, you know,that's what gets me up in the
morning is, man, if I don't gowho's gonna go? And yes, God can
use anybody, but he's, what he'selected to use me in this
particular moment. I want to getto the end of my life, and I
want him to say, Well done, Iwant them to be pleased with me.
(48:37):
You know, we talk about judgmentday and all the there's gonna be
a moment where we all get toheaven and go, What did you do?
God's gonna go? What did you dowith what I gave you?
And I want to be able to say,Man, I, you know, I, I built the
apostolic ministry, and we putsongs out, you know, we
revolutionize the technologyspace, right?
(48:59):
Yeah, we had to give it uppodcast, we did all of these
different things, werevolutionized and we helped we
revolutionize the church, as itpertains to technology and
innovation. In a world of AI,right, we can keep going down
this. And in a world of AI, whoin the church is going to fill
the gap of helping us come intoan understanding of how to
(49:22):
leverage these new tools andinnovation for the sake of the
gospel. This is what overflow isright? And many, many more, but
it's just y'all. It's y'alltaking your place. I want to
take my place too. And so Ithink those are the things that
get me up in the morning. Andthat's the that's the
inspiration that I want to giveto this generation into the next
generation of like, man, let'slet's get on it. We, the enemy
(49:46):
doesn't have a problem moving.
So let's let's do what we got todo. So we're just going to start
with music business and end withspiritual warfare. Is that what
we're doing here? We're gonna,we're gonna talk about we're
going to talk aboutChick fil A Brad lomenick and TD
Jakes, we're going to talk aboutwhat to talk about the USA and
Rwanda, just all in one podcast,is that what we're doing?
(50:11):
That's who you are man, you knowthat you know that your language
is a global sound.
It's a it's really fun. I mean,I think we prophesied as though,
at the beginning that thispodcast was going to cover some
ground, we cover some ground.
We took some territory. This wasa phenomenal conversation, Sam,
(50:34):
you know, parting thoughts, aswe kind of pull this one up.
Anything that you want to kindof share? I mean, to frame these
last moments, we're talking topastor, senior church leaders
that have a mindset to want toinnovate, and want to take the
church into new spaces and newplaces, would be kind of a final
(50:54):
thought to leave us with.
Yeah, I would say, I would leaveyou with a thought that Bobby
greenwall Come on, gave me inLondon one day. I haven't spoken
to him in a while. But he's oneof the founders, if not the
primary founder of YouVersion,the app, they've gone on to
(51:17):
reach, you know, three, to maybe400 phones at million phones
around the world at this point.
And he said, you know, thechurch should be the most
innovative place on the planet.
Yes, because the church wascreated by the greatest
innovator that will ever know.
And that's guy, he's, he's acreator. He's an innovator, you
know, in the beginning, right?
(51:42):
He did, He created and He'screated us, I believe, to
create, to innovate, to build ontop of what he's already built
on top of, I'll end with kind ofwhere we where we've been this
entire time. And it's man, theGreat Commission is our number
one goal. That's why we exist isto hopefully prepare the way for
(52:05):
Jesus to return the game andthat's that's why we're here.
Innovation speeds up thatprocess. And so we've got to
innovate at every turn. I justwant to I love the bobby
Grunwald ism, it's let's thechurch, church leaders,
Kingdom ambassadors, which areChristians, we should be the
(52:26):
most innovative people on theplanet. Because we were created
by an innovator. Ladies andgentlemen, give it up for Sam
Collier, our friend, your friendnow to buy listen to this pod.
We appreciate you thank you somuch, man for being on the pot.
I love you, bro. I love yousays. Thanks so much for
(52:46):
listening to the give it uppodcast if you want to receive
even more insights on churchinnovation, culture and giving
now you can sign up for free tobe an overflow insider, where
you'll receive exclusive contentdiscounts direct access to Vance
Roush to get your questionsanswered. And also invite only
access to our monthlyfundraising leadership forums.
(53:08):
Head to overflow.co backslashinsider, or just click the link
in our bio to sign up for freetoday. In order to get this
podcast in the ears of even morechurch leaders. Could you please
subscribe and leave a review forthe show. This tells the podcast
players what people are enjoyingand want to hear more of and we
are adamant about providingmaximum value to even more
(53:30):
church leaders. Thanks so much.
We'll see you next time.
Whenever God calls you to multiple things, he gives you
(00:03):
the grace for those multiplethings. And for those
individuals that have the graceon their life for a million
different plates, I want to tellthem the same thing that he told
me keep the plate spinning. Itmay seem like it's hard, because
it was hard for me at the time.
But the more you do it, Godwill, you know, he will open the
door and he will carry it withyour turn tech leader and the
(00:23):
millennial churchgoer exploringthe intersection of technology,
culture and faith, equipping youwith innovative strategies to
support you as you live out yourcalling leader churches with
confidence to step into thefuture together. This is the
give it up podcast. What's upguys, and welcome back to
another giveth podcast episode.
(00:44):
And this is going to be onewhere we're not even sure what
direction we're going to end upwith. Because we have the man,
the myth, the legend Sam Collierin the building. And for those
of you that do not know SamCollier, he was a pastor of
story church, Atlanta. And I saywas because now he's an apostle,
which he's gonna share moreabout. And Sam also does a
(01:05):
million different things. Welike to call him a pastor
printer. He's a mutual friend ofboth Vance and I. And so we are
just absolutely thrilled anddelighted to have him on the
podcast today. Come on. No, youhave to jump in. You have to
jump in there. What? No, thatwas an introduction of a
(01:27):
lifetime. I feel like my contentisn't as great as that
introduction. So I'm going totry to live up to it on these
next couple of minutes.
I love it. Well, Sam, you and Iactually met I don't know, maybe
18 ish months ago, maybe alittle longer through our mutual
friend, Pastor Adam Mesa inRancho Cucamonga.
(01:49):
And ever since he introduced us.
We've been friends. We've beenfollowing each other's journey.
God is obviously doing a mightywork through you. And story
church. I can't wait to dig intothat more. But I want to say hi
to our pod listeners real quick.
Man, yeah, I would love to I ama massive fan. I feel like
(02:11):
you're fanning I'm fanning ofoverflow of vans. I always say
this. And I don't know if we'reable to talk about this
publicly. But I've had a fewinvestors or individuals asked
me about the value propositionof what overflow is, and why
maybe they should invest or notinvest in. And I say guys,
(02:32):
listen, listen, the technologyis next level. The innovation is
off the chain. But the wildcardis Vance.
That is the wild guard. He is.
He's your prophetic. You arefuturistic, right. I often
compare you and please don't sayI'm, you know, being
(02:55):
blasphemous. I often compare youto Gary Vee. Right? Like,
you're like a prophet.
You know, for what? for what'snext, because Gary will straight
up prophesied to you curse youout, and then tell you what's
happening in the next 20 years.
And I really feel like that'swhat God is, you know, building
(03:15):
you up as for this generation,and we need it. So I'm, it's an
honor for me to be on this show.
And I'm excited to just be amongthe ranks. I want to I want to
talk about this real timebecause I I actually don't view
myself as a prophet. Right. Andwe can break that down
theologically. How to unpackthat. But one of the first times
(03:38):
I got on a call with you, youdid something really interesting
never happened to me before.
We're talking about overflow.
We're talking about a fundraisethat you were doing at a time
capital campaign. I believe youwere believing for a certain
amount to take sorry, church tothe next level. And you said
this, I remember it like it wasyesterday. You go Vance,
prophesy over me.
(03:59):
And so what I know about theprophetic is, you know, I'm not
trying to even read your mail.
All I'm trying to do isencourage you and to pray God's
Word over the situation. Andthat's what we did. And we
actually saw some miracleshappen after that, I believe.
100% Well, he says he's not Youokay, I'll just I'll say it like
(04:21):
that. He has a prophetic giftguys. He's able to hear what the
voice of the Lord is saying andrelease it into the atmosphere.
And the reason I said prophesyover me is because you were
already prophesying. And so Iwas like, uh, can you keep going
because like, you're already inthis in this zone. And you
(04:43):
actually prophesied a certainand I a specific number that
somebody was gonna give us and Iwas I thought it was crazy. And
and I'm not really into and Iknow you're not into We're not
into the snakes. And the youknow, the weird the infant
five months, your life's gonnachange kind of thing. We're not
really into that, right where itis we wanted to be normal. So
(05:05):
the fact that you gave a numberwas very weird and very, like, I
took a kind of serious, becauseI wasn't my he doesn't do stuff
like this. And we got that exactnumber. And I just couldn't. I
mean, because it was kind ofwhile you like somebody from
outside of your ministry isgoing to donate, this thing is
going to happen. And I was like,that's not gonna What are you
talking about? And someonecalled me literally, it was
(05:27):
like, I gotta get rid of somemoney before the end of the
year. And it was the exactamount that you spoke. So you're
prophetic to me. Hey, man, Ithat that encourages me and
obviously got God has all theglory. What was cool about that,
(05:48):
and zone knows a littlebackground, because she's
obviously on the overflow teamas well. It came through crypto.
Come on somebody God can workthrough crypto. Yep.
Yep, yep. It came 100% throughcrypto. It's why, you know,
look, let's just pause, give acommercial break, download the
overflow app today.
(06:11):
Because it's awesome. We haveused it. We're trying to make
our way back around, right.
Like, I love what Zoe said inthe beginning, you get your
finance teams, and you're like,how do we get back, I'm like,
overflow is the next, we got tomake our way back around every
day, we are coming down thehighway, back to the overflow
team. Because when we were usingthe app, it just blessed us
(06:31):
tremendously. And as you know,we've been through a lot of ups
and downs and rounds and rounds.
And so we're making our way backon over. So I'm a lifetime
overflow member, right, I justwant to say that and I just want
to tell everybody out there, youneed to download the app,
because it transformed ourministry in so many different
ways. And we're excited for whenit will do that again.
(06:55):
Love that. That's super kind ofyou. Thank you, Sam, for saying
that. Um, what I want to talkabout with you is, you said
you're doing a ton of differentthings there. It seems like
you're the type of person whoputs all four burners on the
stove on at the same time, youare not cooking with just one
dish, you have all of thesethings happening.
(07:16):
And I want to start with peopleputting pastors in a box of this
is what you do. A pastor doesthis says this acts like this.
And you just knocked all fourwalls of that box down. And I
want to kind of unpack yourmindset of how being a pastor
(07:36):
can be more than just inside thefour walls of a church and how
you actually extend your reachand your ministry reach way
beyond church ministry. What abig question.
Zoe, you coming in? Hi, I, wegot to pause for a moment and
shout out Brad lomenick. And thereason I want to shout him out
(08:00):
is because he said something tome, in the middle of my pastoral
journey, which I'm going to I'mgoing to talk about why he said
this, because I think it goes inline with your statement about
pastors kind of doing one thing,I do think there's some truth to
why that end ends up happening.
And Brad kind of had to shake meout of where I was going. And he
texted me and he said, Hey, Sam,I just want to remind you to
(08:24):
keep the plates spinning, keepthe plates spinning. And I was
like, huh, he was like, Whateveryou do, keep the plates
spinning. And I was like, Well,I got so much to do, I'm
focused, I gotta get thisorganization off the ground. And
he said, I got you, but keep theplates spinning and he
disappeared.
And what I thought about that, Imean, even to this day, but it
(08:48):
was something I thought aboutfor months, because it at the
time, I could not imaginekeeping the plates spinning.
Because I had one big plate thatwas spinning out of control. And
that's kind of like whatpastoring is, it's when it let
me say this way. That's whatpastoring can be. If you're
(09:08):
leading an organization, that isby the grace of God, hopefully
making a massive amount ofimpact in the city.
If you're doing it well, andVance knows this, probably more
than most and Zoe I know, youknow, at amplify and everything
that you've seen happen, youknow, if you're doing it well it
can be all consuming and attimes to really focus in on it
(09:31):
like it's its own organism and,and
organization in itself. It isit's a plate that has plates
within it. Right? So you'relike, Hey, you want me to spin
more plates than this one platethat has a million plates what
is happening and but but heencouraged me with that because
he said to me, you know yourunique design and your unique
(09:55):
call is to the body of Christ tothe local church.
but it's also to serve theglobal church as well. So and I
just, I just believe this, and Ibelieve that he knows this. You
know, whenever God calls you tomultiple things, he gives you
the grace for those multiplethings. And for those
(10:15):
individuals that have the graceon their life for a million
different plates, I want to tellthem the same thing that he told
me keep the plate spinning. Itmay seem like it's hard, because
it was hard for me at the time.
But the more you do it, Godwill, you know, he will open the
door, and he will carry it withyou. So I don't know if that
answered the question. But it'sprobably mentality around it is
I got to keep the platesspinning. Yeah. Well, I want to
(10:38):
talk about a couple of thoseplates that you have. Yeah,
those plans? Exactly. Yeah.
Please, I mean,you tell me which ones you want
to talk about? I'll tell you theones that's on the top of my
head. Just say all those things.
Yeah, okay. We, we just signed adeal with Capitol Christian
(11:03):
music group. And CapitolChristian is about three
different labels in one. SoMotown gospel, Capitol Christian
label group, and then anorganization company called
rethink.
And belonging CO was signed torethink Sam Rivera sign the
rethink, you kind of go down thelist of these individuals, and
(11:24):
we did a direct deal withrethink capital.
So we're in the Motown gospelcapital Christian rethink house.
And it really wasn't, the dealtook about nine months to make
happen. But we really felt likeGod was calling our house to
produce a sound that wasn't thatdidn't just come from Sunday
(11:45):
morning, but also created anopportunity and a platform for
creatives around the country whojust needed a leg up. And so the
brand is the story collected, ifyou go on Spotify, Apple Music,
or whatever, you can look thatup. Many y'all know my
background is music. So Godasked me to kind of give up
music to for ministry. And it'sbeen about 10 to 12 years since
(12:08):
I've done music. And on thislevel, and God has, you know,
he's brought it back. And sowe're excited about that we got
about three records out. And wejust, you know, again, my thing
was, I was I was the artiststhat I that we're trying to get
now I needed an opportunity, Ineeded a leg up, and I didn't
want to have to go to the worldto get it. So that's what we're
(12:29):
that's one of the things thatwe're doing.
As well as pastoring.
As well, as you know, at somepoint, we're going to launch a
church network for more churchesthat are wanting to be a part of
what we're doing. And we'reexcited about that. Who I kick
off, I got a new book coming outsoon called dream killers, don't
tell anybody that's like anexclusive. We got a new book I'm
(12:53):
working on as well as some otherthings. It's so good. Sam, talk
to us about the business side,too. And the reason why I want
to go into all these differentplaces, because I do believe
it'll serve as inspiration andeven not inspiration, just
creative thought of like, hey,you know, some other people are
thinking about their approach toministry in a dynamic way. You
(13:13):
talk to me about some work thatyou've done with Chick fil A and
other business endeavors. What'syour mindset around business?
Yeah, I, before pastoring, I hada, I think some of the plays
that Brad lomenick wasreferencing,
that I kind of put on pause. Andnow I've started to bring back a
little bit, I had a bigconsulting agency. We had two
(13:35):
one was called the resourcegroup that was me and Tony, my
wife shout out to her. And thenanother one was called call your
creative services, which I stillkind of have now. And one of the
things that we did, we consulteda lot of organizations and
several different areas. One wasdefinitely diversity and
multiculturalism. So that wasone, you know, organizations
(13:56):
that were predominantly, youknow, Caucasian, in terms of
their constituency. And also intheir leadership, were trying to
figure out how do we turn theship without losing everybody on
the boat that we already have.
So we helped a lot with thatvanderbloemen, we had a
partnership with vanderbloemenThat was serving a bunch of
churches around the country, andwe were just helping to speak
(14:18):
and to that.
Call your creative services andalso the resource group also
helped. We had a big partnershipwith thrive and financial at one
time, thrive. It was up inMinneapolis, and they actually
had an organ There was once atime with thrive. It was three
different divisions and they hada church division. And they also
(14:40):
had a holdings division. I feellike I'm using a lot of business
terms. They had a through aholdings division was just
simply meant they own like15,000 companies. And in that
division was an organizationcalled bright pink financial
which focused specifically onlove and money. And so they were
trying to figure out how to doinnovative things.
So innovation was one of thethings that we noticed, was a
(15:04):
massive challenge. And reallybig organizations
that were doing well. In otherwords, they were so busy working
in the business, they didn'treally have time to work on the
business. And they had theseinnovative projects and ideas,
but not the manpower to eitherget it done, or the time or the
margin. So our organization camein and helped them innovate. So
(15:27):
for some, it was, hey, we'retrying to go from here to there,
you know, what do you see aroundhelping us do that with this new
product that we have? And thenwe will come alongside and say,
well, there's a few differentitems that you can do this
through some concept, maybe youdo a concert series, maybe you
launch a social campaign, all ofthese other things. That's one
(15:47):
angle, and then we will helpthem implement it. Or they will
come to us and say, here's somethings we've been wanting to do,
but don't have the time to doCan you help us do that. And so
we've I mean, we've partneredwith YouVersion, on different
products on different projectsthat we've been able to do
together. Chick fil A was onedefinitely being on the road
with them and hosting and doingsome other things. When shape is
another. So that was my life.
Before all, you know, before Iwas had something to do every
(16:11):
Sunday, and you still have theseplates spinning. So I guess my
question is this, and I hopethis helps pastors, senior
church leaders, think about thisas well, because maybe there's
some plates that God has put inother people's lives as well.
Are these doors, one that you'vebusted open? Or that you've just
walked through? Like? How do youmeasure if you know, your grace
(16:34):
for something? Obviously, youhave people like Brad lomenick,
to encourage you to keep thespinning. But even without that,
how do you assess Sam?
Wow.
Um, I thinkI think God puts passions in us
(16:55):
and lead us toward a certaindirection.
And the, you know, I often talkabout, again, we're talking
about this book, often talkabout things that keep you up at
night. And when it's two or 3amin the morning, and you're
going, Ah, it's just a somethinghere. I don't know, the full
(17:17):
overflow story. But But what Ido know, the answer is that
there was a season where youwere and I think you still are
CFO, at one time at this at thischurch that you at. And all of a
sudden, there's this idea thatyou birth, and now it's like, I
would imagine that there was amoment you said, I don't think I
can just leave this thing at thechurch that I'm at, I gotta
(17:39):
there's a there's a passion inme to help other churches.
Something I believe was maybedrawing you out. And, you know,
I think we all have thosefeelings. But the other thing I
would I would say aroundassessing is, you know, God will
give passions and then we havepassions as well. So I think the
other question that you'reasking is, how do we decipher
between my passion and God'spassion for me? Right.
(18:04):
And one of the things I will sayis, you know, it's a really
simple principle, it's gonnaseem Elementary, but it really
does work, follow the favor,follow the faith. So, I had a
mentor of mine telling me thatonce you want to discern the
voice of God and direction inyour life, follow the favor. How
do you know that God is openingthis door? How do you know this
(18:26):
is some guy wants you to do,there's gonna be favor attached
to it, people are going to keepasking you to do it, doors are
going to fly open, there is acertain thing that happens in
our life that kind of gets outof control. And it's that thing
that we don't and it's to think,Vance, you said it, that there
are moments where we need toknock down doors, but
oftentimes, there's this inbetween phase between us
(18:49):
knocking down the doors, andhaving the idea in the passion,
where God just starts to move.
And it's in that space that youcan kind of decipher, you know,
the will of God because he'smoving and he's okay, that's not
me. People are calling me peopleare asking me, I keep running
into this unique problem indifferent places. I'm in the gas
station, and somebody said thisto me, I showed up at a
conference and somebody broughtthis topic up and I had a
(19:10):
solution. Wait, what's happeningpeople are either these these
crazy, I somehow ended up at theNike Headquarters I'm just
giving really weird and randomoccurrences these are the types
of things that God does whenhe's trying to get a message to
you I want you to move this wayso I would say follow the favor
and you if there's favorattached to it, it's probably
(19:32):
something that the Lord wantsyou to lean into. Gaza XO that's
a threads right there. Followthe favor.
sure that that's one that youwere gonna post that 10 on 10 on
and just like little breadcrumbshoping that favors at the end of
it right?
Favorite Yeah, I love I love Ilove the idea of follow the
(19:54):
favor because it is reallywalking with the Holy Spirit.
Right?
You know itIf you're single, and you're
trying to ask out a girl, andshe said no, like 20 times, but
probably not favor in that,actually probably a restraining
order in that. So it's not aboutpersistence in that situation.
(20:15):
But in business, for example, Ilove this idea that you have
around movement, right? BecauseGod is moving. And so I talk to
people all the time all youknow, God has a business in me.
God spoke to me about abusiness.
And they want to be directed byGod, but God can't steer
something that's not moving. Andso oftentimes, oftentimes, it's
(20:36):
just taking steps, right andfollowing the favor of God
through that journey. So I wantto do quick market research with
you because the premise of thispodcast is a little bit the
combination of of a pastor aswell as a millennial churchgoer,
which you obviously are.
When you see pastors beingmultifaceted, kind of like Sam,
(21:00):
you know, what does that do foryou? Because I've seen haters on
the other side of this type ofstuff. I've also seen people
that love it, like, where do youwhere do you land? Let's have an
open and honest conversation.
Yeah, I love this question. Ithink it definitely piques your
curiosity at first, I'm like,how, how can you do all of this,
let alone do all of it well, andwith excellence, right, in a way
(21:20):
that's honoring to God. And thenit also gives me hope, because
I, in my work, there was a longtime where I'm like, I had this
mindset of because I waslegitimately working in
ministry, and coming to the endof that season, to use a church
term. I found myself thinking,well, how can I do anything else
(21:42):
other than ministry, totallynegating the fact that
everything you do can beministry or ministry adjacent.
Like you can still be servingthe Lord outside of the context
of the church building andoutside of a ministry, nonprofit
organization. So I think, Ithink when I see pastors doing
that, it's really encouragingbecause it means they have the
(22:02):
same mentality I do. And they'renot putting a lid on their
sphere of influence that God hasgraced them for. So good. Well,
you said something superinteresting in that where, you
know, there is this thought ofman, how can we do all these
things with excellence? Sothat's kind of what I want to
(22:24):
peel back. Another layer on Samis like, you know, these plates
are spinning. How do you makesure that it's divine direction,
not distraction for you?
Excellent. I, I could talk aboutthis for an hour, if not five,
but I won't. I've got a millionthings popping in my head right
(22:45):
now. So I'm going to try tochoose one. That is, I'm telling
myself stay focused, sound stayfocused. And
and I think that that's actuallya great segue into how to do it.
Well, based on what I've learnedfocus, right. Like, I think what
we're talking about is focus.
And I think the truth about itis, you can't do anything, well,
(23:05):
that you're not focused on ifyour focus is split.
It doesn't matter how great youare at it. If your focus is
split, it's not going to be asgreat as it needs to be as
opposed to if your focus is onsomething. So the question
becomes, and I have to throwthis I'm throwing this to what I
(23:25):
learned vicariously livingthrough Andy Stanley, and orange
and the catalyst world and allof these other things. The
question becomes, how do you geta heavy amount of focus on a
project that you're working on?
Because the church is its own?
Right? It's its own entity. It'sI want to eat, I can say
(23:50):
monstrosity, again, if you'redoing it, well, if you're doing
it, well, that's the other ifyou're just like, Alright, I'm
out here. I'm just I'm justshowing up the bread Bible
study. If you're doing it, well,it's a monstrosity, right? It's,
it's a lot of money coming in.
It's a lot of money going out.
It's a lot of souls being saved.
It's a lot of marriages beingrestored. It's a lot of people
(24:10):
being set free, and you'rereaching a city. So if you're
doing it, well, it's amonstrosity. So how do you keep
doing that well, and start arecord label, and launch a
conference and build a churchnetwork and do all of those
well? Well, it's a Chick fil A,you know, Mark Miller says this
all the time. He just resignedor not resign, I guess he
(24:34):
retired as the vice president ofleadership at Chick fil A. And
he said this high performanceteams do high performance
things. And that statement woundtransformative to me, I
piggyback that on top of what Ilearned at NorthPoint, just by
being around you know, you sawall of these different things
coming out of North Point. Youknow, Andy, at one time was a
(24:57):
part of startingcatalyst which was just massive
conference. It was him it wasReggie Joyner. It was John
Maxwell and and written andLandy Donahoe, and they build
these this 16,000 person, crazything that didn't giant impact.
Wow NorthPoint is like 30,000members at the time.
And you're just I'm jumping fromlocation to location, at North
(25:20):
Point 7000 person, on average ata location. And it's all of
these things, then all of asudden, you see orange come out
of North Point, or, you know,come out of Reggie Joyner who's
at North Point, but there's thisheavy affiliation. And then they
launch a 10,000 personconference. And then you see big
stuff. You're like, What arey'all doing?
And one of the things that theytaught me, they echoed the
(25:41):
statement of Mark Miller,here's another Chick fil A ism,
when we have a problem, we put aleader on it. So for me,
for me, my question is alwayslike, literally, Michael, I'm
gonna bring you into my work. Myquestion right now is, hey,
capital is awesome. I need aleader that can be focused on
(26:05):
this every week.
And doesn't mean I can't overseeit doesn't mean I can't guide it
doesn't mean I can't take itaway, I'm always going to be in
the COC. Like, at the church,um, you know, Zoe, you know,
hilariously talked about mebeing an apostle, right is
senior pastor and apostle is mynew title, but it just speaks
(26:25):
into a function. And thefunction is, I'm in more of a
governing seat than I am in thepractitioner, see,
in order to make this thing run.
And so for me, that's what Iwould say, I have found, if
you're gonna do a lot of things,or a few things well, and those
few things have have to have aheavy amount of focus on, you
(26:47):
have to find a high capacityleader that you can partner
with, that then builds a highcapacity team within that
organization, or within thatspecific initiative that will
carry it out when you're havingto split your focus or jump from
one thing to the next to go,Hey, is this rolling? And is
(27:07):
this rolling? And if you can doit, well, then now you can have
right your, your your meeting ofgovernors, and we sit around the
round table and go, how'severything going? Here's where
we want to go. So, ladies, Iknow it's not easy. My capacity
is directly correlated to thepeople around me. To to those
right, you're talking aboutempowerment. I mean, this is one
(27:30):
small example. Right? But theygive it a podcast, right? XO
largely owns a lot of thedirection and what we do for the
given up podcast, so speak, fromyour perspective really quick on
somebody that's empowered, andthere's a lot more things that
you do. But what are things thatallow you to be empowered? What
are those things that allow youto be released? I guess?
(27:53):
Yeah, I think a big one that'sbeen really influential is
someone speaking life into you,because I'm one of those people
who this is actually my nextquestion. I want to I want to
get into his this element offearlessness. Because I think
that someone can cast a vision,a high level vision. And the
first thing I think isn't, Iknow the next step to take it's
(28:15):
how on earth are we going to getthere? So I think people that
they can come alongside andempower you speak life into you,
and then collaborate on whatthey believe the next right step
is, and what I like to callmyself and how I see the world
is really as a blueprint runner.
I'm like, you just give me theblueprints and say, we're
(28:36):
working on the kitchen first.
And then I'm like, got you, youknow. And so I think that's a
big element of it is becausethere's so many people in the
faith space, who are so great atcasting vision. But how do you
take this and drop it right hereto 100 levels lower to we're
(28:57):
just working on the first step.
I think I think that's one ofthe biggest things for me.
So good, so good.
That kind of makes me thinkyou have these plates spinning.
We've talked about how it'simportant, Sam, for us to find
leaders over each and every oneof those xo is mentioning, you
(29:18):
know, for a leader that'sempowered for her what's
important is to get direction onthe next step or what the
priority is, how do youcontextualize that in your
world? Let's take the musiclabel, for example. You find
leaders, you find a team, how doyou take your big vision, your
big ambition? And how do youbreak it down? What's that
thought process? Like?
(29:42):
Wow.
Ihad a season in my life. I feel
like these are all bigquestions. I had a season of my
life where I I was stokedbugling with my, I don't want to
say with my faith, I think Iwould probably say with the
(30:05):
outworking of my faith. I wasstruggling with the outworking
of my faith. So I believed inJesus. And it's actually
everything that Zoe is talkingabout.
I had this big vision our Ithink people will identify with
this vast Do you remember thisseason? And Zoe, I know you
probably do as well, what it waslike conferences everywhere. I
(30:28):
mean, leadership conferences,and you know, every everywhere
you went, it was like this,that.
And it was it was kind of beforeit was definitely before the
virtual conferences. And it wasit was just it was conference
everywhere. And I remember goingto all these conferences, you
know, and leaving the conferenceso excited. And you know, Louie
(30:52):
Giglio, will hop on stage, andhe would be like, you know,
you're, there's somebody in theaudience, you're not just called
to the church, you're called tostart a movement, you know, to
meet or you're called to gostarted skateboarding? Dang it,
you're called to go?
You're called to gorevolutionize the tattoo
(31:13):
industry, right? You just likeall of these things, every
sphere, every space?
Yes. And I remember leavingthose conferences going, what?
Like, how do I do that? Oh, am Igonna start a movement.
(31:35):
And but like, I had all thisvision, and they enlarged my
capacity, they were enlarging mycapacity. Right? Now I'm up at
3am going, how am I going tostart a tattoo movement, right.
I mean, it's not technically atattoo movement, but you get my
point. And, and honestly, it ledto a season of depression. But
to be really honest, because Idid not know, I was gonna start
(31:59):
a movement. But I kept hearingthat a movement was in me.
So I went on a journey ofdiscovery. And like when you
talk about the idea of like,working out your faith and
studying to show yourselfapproved and owning your own
development, that's the season Iwent to, because I got to a
(32:22):
point where I was like, Man, Ican't just keep hearing the big
message. And not knowing thepracticality of the message.
Come on, it's impossible for meto know the practicality of the
message from going toconferences, and church every
Sunday, find someone to sit. Sothat's what I'm talking about
(32:43):
mentorship, right.
And this is where mentorshipstarts to get amazing. But that
was one of the I started to goon this journey of going, I need
to find somebody whohas done this well before. And I
need to. And there were so manymentors at the time, that I
don't even remember who told methis for the first time. But I
(33:06):
remember one person or a fewpeople saying to me, you've got
to learn how to go all the wayto the end. And then Bill
backwards to the beginning. Andthat's the journey I started
going on. And we call it weactually we had an organization
at the time and a group ofindividuals that were like we
were running together. And itwas kind of you know, it's the
(33:28):
one the mafia and all theChristian mafia, but it was
like, it was a kind of like themastermind groups now that you
have, like early on. And wecrafted and coined a term called
Peak State is like, what is thepeak state of your vision? What
is the peak state of overflowwas the peak state of story
church was the peak state of allof these different visions of,
(33:49):
of capital and story records.
And the story was like, where dowe ultimately want to go? And we
would get a whiteboard out, wewould draw a picture of that.
And then we would go right nowwhat do we need to do from there
to get back to where we are now?
And that helped me a lot withthe practicality of the moment
of going, okay, so if I want togo down the street, I gotta take
(34:12):
one step out of the house.
Oh, no, the first thing I gottaget shoes. Right. And so let me
get shoes. I gotta get running.
I gotta get walking shoes. Andthen after my walking shoes, I
got to take one step out of thehouse, and then oh, I think I
got to do 20 of those. I got tomake sure I have some water for
the journey. You know. So that'smy simple as we can go deeper if
(34:34):
you want, but that's my thing.
It's it's brilliant. And I thinkit's insightful because another
key word I heard from you ismentorship. Right? And all
throughout this podcastrecording, I've heard you say
Brad lomenick or, or a Chick filA is. It's clear, Andy Stanley,
it's clear that you are abyproduct of a lot of the people
(34:57):
that you've invited into yourlife to speak
into your life. Paul says,Follow me, as I follow Christ.
Why didn't Paul just say followChrist?
Right? Because we don't onlyneed to follow Christ, right? We
need to see people also pursuingChrist and what that looks like.
Yeah, and that's why he addedthat in. And so, uh, yes, we
(35:21):
follow Jesus directly. But also,we need people in our world to
show us what it looks like tofollow Jesus follow Jesus. Yes,
we can have an idea of businessin our head. But at the same
time, we need examples of peoplethat have done it well.
And that applies to everysphere, and every space that we
(35:42):
set that we set our feet.
I want to talk I want to talkabout story church, because
we've been talking a lot aboutthings outside of story, church,
but story church in and ofitself, is a blessing. It is
blowing up, people are beingsaved, people aren't being
baptized. I've been seeing itfrom afar, hearing things
(36:02):
directly from mutual friendslike Adam Mesa that's been able
to speak at your church andhearing the direct report of the
people surrounding thisphenomena, this very
inspirational journey, talkabout what's happened, what's
God doing in story church? Who,um,
I, you know, he's doing what hewants to do, right? Like,
(36:26):
it's what I've been describingour journey, as thus far has
been like, I feel like I'msitting in the back of a Tesla.
And there's no driver. And hisdriver.
Right is driving his movement,switching lanes, there's an
address, I'm just in thebackseat going, where you want,
(36:47):
you know, God, what do you wantus to go. And that's what it's
been like, he's just got, youknow, we just got a building,
that we're still we're breakingground in the next couple of
weeks on this building 10,000square feet, where year over
year and a little over a yearold.
In terms of as an organizationbefore that, as you know, many,
many people know we wereHillsong Atlanta, right for like
(37:10):
nine months. So I always sayHillsong birth story church,
right. And that was a, that wasa season in itself, of just ups
and downs. And, you know, thePhoenix Rising right from a lot
of the things that we weredealing with at that particular
time, but it's just been unbel.
It's been a miracle. To bereally honest.
(37:34):
I won't say the name of somebodythat said this to me, but he
said, listen, the amount of theamount of pressure and the
amount of challenge that yourorganization has been through in
such a short time.
It should equal you not evenbeing here. The fact that your
organization is still here, andhas doubled in size and revenue
(37:57):
is unbelievable. And so we justgive it we know we give it to
God. And now you know, we feelthe Lord doing he's he's
birthing what we call anapostolic house. And the best
way for me to explain this is totalk about an organization
called African new life. Andthere's a big organization
called African who live out ofRwanda. And there's a guy named
(38:22):
Pastor Charles, his name isPastor Charles. He's a Rwandan.
He is a child of the Rwandangenocide.
We recently went to Rwandabecause we support our churches
now sponsoring some kids overand Rwanda, but he calls their
ministry and apostolic ministry.
Now he doesn't use language likeApostle Paul, but he believes in
what they what you would callfivefold ministry. So he his
(38:43):
gifting would be more apostolic,and they've got pastors and then
some that are prophetic, somethat are more evangelistic, all
of these other things.
But it was the first time for methat I was able to really see
what I believe.
The New Testament talks aboutwhen it says when it talks about
(39:05):
this fivefold government, andhow it can produce a certain
thing in the earth. Here is thisguy who was a child of the
genocide, millions and millionsof Rwanda is killed. And as a
response to this, he becomes hegets his doctorate, and plants
this church. His church now has10 locations. His church decided
(39:30):
to becomea House of Hope for the region.
He calls it taking kids frompoverty to leadership. So from
an apostolic perspective, allapostolic ministry is is the
idea of taking ground. That'sthe idea. It's just the idea of
taking ground. What does it meanfor our church to be in a city
(39:50):
to operate in the kingdom and totake ground in that city? Over
over a certain every sphereevery right we go back there
again. So you go to his, his hisschool, his his churches, vans,
and attached to his church is ahospital. Cool. I mean a real
hospital, like that they builtfrom the ground up, they built a
(40:14):
hospital,from the ground up six floors,
nurses, doctors, I mean, all ofthis stuff that you need in
combination with the government,you go to the other side of the
property, they've got orphanageson the other side of the
property, that are taking kidsthat have grown up in poverty,
you go to one side, they've gottheir own seminary. And they've
(40:36):
and they've done these, theseorganizations. And this, I would
just say, Can theseconglomerates all around the
country of Rwanda, to the pointwhere they have their own
primary school from kindergartenup to
12th grade, and then obviously,they have their own university
and they have their ownseminary. Their school is so
(40:59):
successful as the number oneschool in the country, the
number one school in thecountry, connected to a church.
And he looks at me while we'rewalking around, he says, Sam,
this is apostolic ministry. Thisis the this is not what we've
seen in the state, where weprofit is so and so. And it is
like, come on now. What are wedoing the weird stuff that we're
(41:21):
talking? We're not talking aboutthat we're just talking about
bare bones? What does it meanfor the kingdom to invade a city
and to invade a space. That'swhat we're attempting to do at
story church, create centers ofreconciliation, one around race
for sure. But also centers ofreconciliation for our city that
(41:42):
launches leaders all around thecity and all around our world
today. So that's what we'redoing, bro. And we got, we
finally got our building, HQ, ahospital, an orphanage part of
the church, part of the buildingpart of the fabric part of the
architecture. This is God'splan, the book rise of
(42:03):
Christianity by Rodney Stark, mypastor read it several years
back, and it changed my wholeframework around why
Christianity went viralChristianity where I will,
because it met practical needswhen it got off the ground.
Right. And so you look athospitals today. It actually
birthed from the church, theactual idea of a hospital,
(42:25):
right? There's a, there'sthere's the cross with the snake
around it, right? Because itbirthed from Christians, right.
People don't really fullyunderstand that or maybe even
appreciate that that conceptcame from the local church, even
if you go all the way back toLeviticus, and the things that
God would instruct his people atthat time to do like wash their
(42:46):
hands. That was hygiene thatpreserved God's people in a
season where the Roman Empirewas killing babies, right?
Christians, the people of theway, they were pro life, they
were pro family. And that's whenjust on a practical basis,
Christian families multiplied.
Right. And so it's so cool tosee that this is coming back.
(43:09):
It's been said thatapostles or people that have
apostolic ministries, have apioneering spirit. Yeah, it's
also been said that you canalways tell a pioneer by the
arrows on their back. Ooh,right. So your level of wanting
to be a pioneer, is your levelof your ability to
(43:38):
carry pain and door, yourability to be excellent is Your
ability to endure. And so I say,I'm inspired. I also say, We're
praying for you.
Because we know this, thismantle to carry on continuing to
(44:00):
spin plates or to continuing totake territory is not for the
faint hearted. is definitely notfor the faint hearted. Yeah. Is
going to go his own way, though.
Yeah. I was going to add to thatby basically just asking you how
you step into these territorieswhere you don't have any
frameworks that work in yourcontext. So basically, you're
starting from the ground up, andmost people would hit that and
(44:22):
say, No, I'm afraid to do that.
You really walk into these newspaces? fearlessly. One? How
have you learned to fear alittle bit less and to what
would you say to someone else inthis exact same position?
Wow. Um,you know, Dr. King, said that,
(44:44):
you know, a movement starts oneperson at a time.
And, you know, it's interestingthat his sister is oldest living
Sister,or the oldest member of the King
family, his sister, Dr.
Christine King Ferris justpassed away this past week. And
(45:10):
this past Sunday, I went to herhome going service at Ebenezer
Baptist Church. And in it, theywere telling a story about how
Dr. Martha King Jr, gave hislife to Jesus, which was very
interesting. He was around sevenyears old. And he went down to
the altar at Ebenezer, and gavehis life to Jesus, not because
(45:33):
he knew what was going on,because his sister gave her gave
her life. And, or was talkingabout giving her life and he
said, I don't want her to be thefirst one. I gotta go before
her. So that's how he gives hislife. So the whole premise of
the sermon,or the eulogy was what happens
when sisters stand up, right.
And it was, it was such abeautiful ceremony. But in this
(45:56):
in thisat this funeral, where we're,
you know, watching the the old,the last
sibling of Dr. King, Pat, youknow, be eulogized, you're
looking at the future generationof a movement that started a
long time ago. So for me, when Ithink about the idea of
(46:20):
a movement, starting one personat a time, the question that I
always have, when we talk aboutindividuals, you know, that
fearlessness and all these otherthings is, who's going to be the
next one to start it. Right?
God's calling all of us to takeground, he just is when we think
about the Great Commission, and,you know, Jesus has kind of
final words to us in the world,it's, Hey, I gotta go, I'm
(46:42):
leaving to help her. But I wantyou to go to all the four
corners of the earth, preach thegospel, make disciples, right,
bringing the kingdom it is ourmandate to go. And I would dare
say this, if we don't go, who isgonna go.
And I'm not gonna get too crazy,because I could preach for the
next three hours about this nextthing, but the enemy doesn't
(47:06):
have a problem going,doesn't have a problem going.
He will go, and he will inspireindividuals to go and act on his
behalf. We talked about thescripture, that thief comes to
steal, kill and destroy, but Ihave come to you may have life
have been more abundantly, hedoes not have a problem
stealing, killing and destroy heis going with. So for me, my
(47:30):
statement is always, you know,if he didn't have problems
going, we cannot have a problem.
taking the first step, somebodyhas to take the step for God's
mission to be done in the earth.
So I just want to encouragesomebody with that statement of
if you don't go who will go. Andlet's let the weight of a
generation sit on our shoulders,and empower us to do it afraid.
(47:56):
Because if we can do it afraid,usually that fear will start to
dissipate, the more we go.
TD Jakes always says this fearcan be in the car just can't
have the driver's seat.
You can you can be in thepassenger seat, but you can't
drive. But you can be rightthere. So that's my
encouragement. And that to me,and the answer to the question,
(48:17):
you know, for me, you know,that's what gets me up in the
morning is, man, if I don't gowho's gonna go? And yes, God can
use anybody, but he's, what he'selected to use me in this
particular moment. I want to getto the end of my life, and I
want him to say, Well done, Iwant them to be pleased with me.
(48:37):
You know, we talk about judgmentday and all the there's gonna be
a moment where we all get toheaven and go, What did you do?
God's gonna go? What did you dowith what I gave you?
And I want to be able to say,Man, I, you know, I, I built the
apostolic ministry, and we putsongs out, you know, we
revolutionize the technologyspace, right?
(48:59):
Yeah, we had to give it uppodcast, we did all of these
different things, werevolutionized and we helped we
revolutionize the church, as itpertains to technology and
innovation. In a world of AI,right, we can keep going down
this. And in a world of AI, whoin the church is going to fill
the gap of helping us come intoan understanding of how to
(49:22):
leverage these new tools andinnovation for the sake of the
gospel. This is what overflow isright? And many, many more, but
it's just y'all. It's y'alltaking your place. I want to
take my place too. And so Ithink those are the things that
get me up in the morning. Andthat's the that's the
inspiration that I want to giveto this generation into the next
generation of like, man, let'slet's get on it. We, the enemy
(49:46):
doesn't have a problem moving.
So let's let's do what we got todo. So we're just going to start
with music business and end withspiritual warfare. Is that what
we're doing here? We're gonna,we're gonna talk about we're
going to talk aboutChick fil A Brad lomenick and TD
Jakes, we're going to talk aboutwhat to talk about the USA and
Rwanda, just all in one podcast,is that what we're doing?
(50:11):
That's who you are man, you knowthat you know that your language
is a global sound.
It's a it's really fun. I mean,I think we prophesied as though,
at the beginning that thispodcast was going to cover some
ground, we cover some ground.
We took some territory. This wasa phenomenal conversation, Sam,
(50:34):
you know, parting thoughts, aswe kind of pull this one up.
Anything that you want to kindof share? I mean, to frame these
last moments, we're talking topastor, senior church leaders
that have a mindset to want toinnovate, and want to take the
church into new spaces and newplaces, would be kind of a final
(50:54):
thought to leave us with.
Yeah, I would say, I would leaveyou with a thought that Bobby
greenwall Come on, gave me inLondon one day. I haven't spoken
to him in a while. But he's oneof the founders, if not the
primary founder of YouVersion,the app, they've gone on to
(51:17):
reach, you know, three, to maybe400 phones at million phones
around the world at this point.
And he said, you know, thechurch should be the most
innovative place on the planet.
Yes, because the church wascreated by the greatest
innovator that will ever know.
And that's guy, he's, he's acreator. He's an innovator, you
know, in the beginning, right?
(51:42):
He did, He created and He'screated us, I believe, to
create, to innovate, to build ontop of what he's already built
on top of, I'll end with kind ofwhere we where we've been this
entire time. And it's man, theGreat Commission is our number
one goal. That's why we exist isto hopefully prepare the way for
(52:05):
Jesus to return the game andthat's that's why we're here.
Innovation speeds up thatprocess. And so we've got to
innovate at every turn. I justwant to I love the bobby
Grunwald ism, it's let's thechurch, church leaders,
Kingdom ambassadors, which areChristians, we should be the
(52:26):
most innovative people on theplanet. Because we were created
by an innovator. Ladies andgentlemen, give it up for Sam
Collier, our friend, your friendnow to buy listen to this pod.
We appreciate you thank you somuch, man for being on the pot.
I love you, bro. I love yousays. Thanks so much for
(52:46):
listening to the give it uppodcast if you want to receive
even more insights on churchinnovation, culture and giving
now you can sign up for free tobe an overflow insider, where
you'll receive exclusive contentdiscounts direct access to Vance
Roush to get your questionsanswered. And also invite only
access to our monthlyfundraising leadership forums.
(53:08):
Head to overflow.co backslashinsider, or just click the link
in our bio to sign up for freetoday. In order to get this
podcast in the ears of even morechurch leaders. Could you please
subscribe and leave a review forthe show. This tells the podcast
players what people are enjoyingand want to hear more of and we
are adamant about providingmaximum value to even more
(53:30):
church leaders. Thanks so much.
We'll see you next time.
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