December 14, 2023 • 20 mins
Join Zoe and Vance as they share their personal stories of getting hacked and dive into savvy financial tips for churches, from getting cash back on tithes to cutting down on processing fees, all while exploring how Overflow is changing the game in church financial management.
This podcast is presented by Overflow, the most powerful giving platform on the planet. Giving cash, stock, or crypto to your church or non-profit has never been easier. Visit overflow.co to experience and step into future of giving.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
So I think it'd be a fun idea to do a money hacks
(00:05):
episode. Let's go. Everybodyloves money hacks. Oh, life
hacks in general, people loveit. We love a good hack. Except
(00:28):
if it's for your own credit cardinformation that we don't like
(00:50):
hacks. Nope. But thankfully, wecare Dr. Sock two, type two, the
only giving platform that weknow of in our space that is SOC
two type two compliant ongoingauditing across our security and
compliance protocol to keep yourdata and your information safe.
Which means we deeply careabout, hey, that email you get
from even big tech companies,they're like, oh, by the way,
(01:14):
your info guy. I got two, two ofthose last week, you know, and
one was from the government. Ifeel so helpless. Sometimes. Me
too. It's just like, so whatdoes that mean? Like? Am I going
to lose all my money? Like, am Igonna lose my identity? My
waiting? Yeah, it's just like,it's just literally FYI. There's
like, no recourse. Like, do Isue you now? Like, what is a
(01:35):
class action suit? I'm gonna geta check later. I don't know what
this means. And the reward forthis is like in now you get
three free months of security onthe back end. Protection. I'm
like, What a gift. You shouldn'tgive him this maybe beforehand,
not after you must know. Andthis is why I get an
estrangement number. Now, I getso many spam calls and text
(01:56):
messages, text messages. Soannoying. I think it's because
every time you have to pay forsomething. You have to put a
phone number out there everytime. But why? Because then it's
on the package. Now all the upsFedEx and USPS drivers are
getting numbers. People areselling Saida black market out
there people agree. Anyways,it's not about security today.
(02:18):
It's about money hacks. Sosecurity about savings.
Great. We love alliterationhere. Oh, you're a pastor, you
live in this land? We have to doit. Yes. I'm talking to pastors.
They love it. Exactly. And Iwant to talk about some ways in
which people can save within thechurch context, whether you work
at a church, or you just go tochurch, and I'm gonna come and
(02:42):
hang out with one, it's gonnarile some people up. And I care
us not.
Because I think a life hack, letalone or money hack is to
actually ties on a credit cardthat gives you a percentage
cashback, get them because youcan give more that way. And you
(03:03):
know, who's paying for thatcashback? That company who's
giving you the money back? SoI'm like, so basically, I'm also
partnering with AmEx, Amex isalso giving to my church. I
wanted to give them thatopportunity. Wait, so you get
cashback through Amex? I forgetwhich card it is. But yeah, were
you talking about like you titheon your Amex or your credit card
(03:25):
or whatever for like the troublepoints? No, I'm saying getting
getting cashback not for pointsgetting just straight up. Yeah,
that's I took that profit offthe tithe. Wow. No, I'm not
profiting.
We give more that way. Well, yougive the cash back. Yes. Wow.
Yes. That's, that's how I shouldarticulate it. Yeah. Wait, so
(03:47):
you are giving like, more than10%? Yeah. So basically, we're
making Amex MasterCard and Visago fund with you. Yes. I wrote.
You. Yes. Okay. Fire is givingwith you. Oh my gosh. Wow, new
thing I give with you. Be like anew flex on Instagram. Like so.
I give with a mix. Yeah.
(04:10):
They, they sponsored this typetoday.
But I think it's a it's a funway to that's, that's um, that's
okay. Okay, then I mean, I mean,that's, that's it's only okay. I
was excited about decent. That'sdecent. You got some nerves. So
you're like increasing yourgiving by, you know, some basis
(04:33):
points. Golf Club, golf club.
Thank you. Standing ovationwould be double your giving by
corporate matching.
If you work for a fortune 500company that has a corporate
gift matching program, like anapple or a Google I'm talking
about Silicon Valley companiesbut if you're in the Midwest, if
(04:55):
you're in the south, you wouldknow your local fortune 500
company Coca ColaWhatever that might be, they
will match your giving up to acertain amount.
I know Apple just down thestreet, they match up to
$10,000 $10,000. Oh, and so youknow, that was cute. Give with a
(05:17):
mix. Yeah, it makes sense foryou back to my game. Let me give
with you or you can get youremployer to double your giving
double your money. I heard thatthere's another company that
does that to overflow. We helpfacilitate it. Just lowbrow.
help maximize giving we'reunlocking you also matching more
ways to save? Oh, our company?
Yes, we do. I know. Oh, by theway, here it was brand new. More
(05:38):
than that. We do more than that.
Yes. So first of all, we believein the time so we can't go
anywhere. We are not willing togo ourselves. So we tithe off of
our revenue, people, none of ourprofit because we're a startup
and we don't make no money. Wedon't make no profit profit yet.
We will be profitable one day.
Amen. But we are growing. We'rein reinvesting into growth. But
off the top off the revenue.
(06:03):
We are giving back toessentially the local church.
That's our primary customer.
Yeah, but basically 10% And youknow, as cool as a portion of
that, we allow our employees ourflow fair, we divvy it up and
they get to give to thecharitable organizations that
they want to direct it towards.
(06:25):
Which is pretty cool. We writeletters to these organizations.
These organizations are sosurprised. They're giving
platforms also giving to them.
Yeah. Which is super cool. Butwe also yes, you're right. We
do. We do match your giving thatalso comes out of our we also
give with you Sheesh, yeah, lookat that. Now imagine if we did
that matching, but then alsoused cashback credit cards on
(06:47):
that. It's everybody's ballgameat that point. Yeah, sorry. I
wasn't trying to diminish yourNo, it sounds like you were but
yeah, that'll be the last tipyou hear from me, you can take
the rest of the episode.
No, but money hacks. You know, alot of people don't realize that
there are massive tax incentivesfor giving. Now most people know
(07:11):
it's like, yeah, when you giveto a 501 C three, you get a
charitable tax deduction. Butpeople don't understand the
impact of giving things outsideof cash, like stock and crypto.
So let's quickly I know wetalked about this often, but not
everyone's heard it. Talk aboutthe tax incentives for giving
noncash to a nonprofit? Well,let's talk about that. But let's
(07:31):
just talk about it in general,because one of the most powerful
itemized deduction possibilitiesyou have if you give over a
certain threshold, don't quoteme on this, it's I think over
12,000, if you're single, maybeover 18,000, if you're married
filing jointly, again, I mighthave those numbers off. But the
point is that if you get over acertain threshold per year, you
(07:54):
can start itemizing yourdeduction. And essentially, the
ducting off of your income taxrate, essentially, it's, it's,
it's one of the most powerfulthings that you can itemize
deductions for is charitablegiving. And so if you're a
tither, you're already going tobe close to that threshold or
(08:16):
exceeding that threshold bylarge measure in saving a ton on
taxes if you live in California,like me, or the other offensive
state, New York. Yeah. Andbasically, they just take all of
my paycheck every single time.
Really, that tax rate can belooked at as a subsidy for my
giving. Because ultimately, I'mgonna get a lot of that back.
(08:38):
Because I am also giving back tomy community, my church, other
charitable organizations. And soit's super cool. I mean, that is
kind of a blessing and a benefitwe have in America as we got
credit for that. Yeah. And soyes, I'm going to stay in
California, we have nicebeaches, we have nice towns, we
have beautiful weather, it's inNorCal really mild unless Jolin
(09:01):
Zhou come in. It's really coldand rainy, only when they come
in. Butthat's the big advantage for
giving overall, there's anadditional advantage if you give
non cash assets. And becausewhen you give of your capital
gains, specifically yourappreciated gains when you give
(09:22):
up that it is completelyprotected from any taxes.
Because when you transfer thosecapital gains to a church or
charitable organization, andthey liquidate it instead of
you, because they're a taxexempt organization, they keep
all of the gains. Oh, it's a winwin. Except for Uncle Sam. I
(09:46):
like that because most peoplewant to keep all the gains when
it comes to working out. Butthere's more than one ways to
keep all your gains. There wasone that was a mom joke and
you're gonna be a mom soon. Oh,why is this the Joker's podcast?
So, just everybody knows. Okay,it's like cirrhosis me for this.
It's not a roast. It's anencouraged. Yeah, I guess you're
(10:06):
just trying to make it.
Roast. I don't know what we aregiven a podcast at some point
we're gonna do like a bigreveal. That's gonna be fun. Oh,
it's the day comes and when theday comes, we will but that day
is not just gonna tune in justfor that. Is this the episode?
Yeah, what's happening Jared isgonna tune in is this the
(10:27):
episode?
Like that was how I announcedit. I was like, Yeah, I need you
to listen to this. He's like,why am I listening to? That's
right. It's for pastors, you'retelling me you recorded this two
months ago? And you're justtelling me now?
Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Butyou've also learned a lot about
(10:47):
money hacks. Being a pastor,what are some other ones that
you can think of? I know there'sa housing allowance thing. Can
you tell us about that and howpeople can maximize certain
provisions that have yeah,there's what's called a clergy
housing allowance. You know,the, I think the history behind
this, again, don't quote me onthis. But to my understanding
the way it's worded in the IRS,the way it's worded in the the
(11:10):
tax forms that you have to fillout to qualify for this. So that
you can be compliant, is theyuse words like parsonage. And so
my assumption is that this wascreated, so that there could be
a tax free way for ministers andclergy to have housing.
(11:30):
You know, you do see that thereare mega churches out there that
are well financed and wellfunded. Yeah, but there are over
300,000 churches in America,most are not overly financed and
overly funded. Yeah. And sothese advantages that the
government has provided, kind oflike a subsidy really helps the
(11:56):
average minister be able toafford things like housing.
Okay, if you have a minister,that is counseling, shepherding,
helping people in the community,you don't want them to struggle
for a house, you don't want themto struggle, yeah, for finding a
home and having a place to sleepand host and meet with people.
(12:19):
And so those are there are theseadvantages. So it is called the
clergy housing allowance, thereis this worksheet that you need
to fill out and fall away onyour records in case you get
audited. Because it allows youto fill out pretty much not just
housing, but things that go intokind of the day to day expenses.
(12:46):
So there's things likefurniture, there's things like
utilities, there's, you know,things that would be the bills
related to housing, too, you canput on this worksheet. And then
basically, you take your salaryminus whatever you calculate on
that worksheet. And thedifference of that is the thing
(13:07):
that gets taxed. Well, a lot oftimes, that allows pastors to
stay in lower tax brackets, thatallows pastors and clergy to be
able to pursue housing andhousing related expenses,
without needing to be taxed onthat as well. And it's in
addition to also having to spendon that. So it is good from the
(13:31):
standpoint of you think aboutit, especially in like places
like California, New York. Yeah.
You're getting a bump of youknow, I don't know, 10 20%. On
your overall compensation. Yeah,if you didn't have that. And so
that allows the church to nothave to pay crazy large salaries
(13:52):
and expend a lot of money tostaffing, when pastors and
clergy can specifically takeadvantage of this. So it just
makes the allocation of funds alot more efficient and
optimized. Thanks to thegovernment. Really? Yeah. That's
so crazy. I've never heard ofthat before. That's a big money
hack. What else you got?
(14:14):
Money hacks?
You know, I think that when itcomes to I mean, where do we
want to go do want to go forpastors for churches? What do
you think the felt need is?
Let's go one more pastors, andthen we'll go to churches. Yeah.
SoI think money hacks for pastors,
and I don't like to frame it ashacks, because all of this is
(14:36):
just trying to managestewardship, right? Yeah.
But there are certain things asa pastor that you're probably
primarily using for theministry. Right. And so for
example,let's say, you know, you're
literally on your phone all daydoing pastoral calls, like
(15:00):
that maybe you shouldn'tconsider either the church
covering some of that expense.
Or at the very least, if you'reusing it for work, you can use
it as a write off, or a taxdeduction, you can obviously
apply this principle to anythingelse that you're primarily
using. For the ministry. Thereare things like car and home
(15:21):
office expenses, that was a bigthing in the pandemic, where a
lot of pastors and ministers aresetting up offices in their
homes, they're renting servicesfrom their homes, and there's a
lot of paperwork that you needto fill out to make it proper.
Like you have to understand thesquare footage and break down.
Oh, wow, specifically that thehousehold that's allotted for
(15:42):
Office is and you need to makesure you keep receipts if you're
going to deduct things likemileage, if you're driving to
visit people and things likethat. Because again, if you're
audited, all these things willbe checked. Yeah. But if you can
be on top of those things, youcan be clever. You can for the
things you're already doing forthe ministry anyways, use it as
(16:02):
a tax advantage as well.
This is not really a hack. It'sjust stewardship. Yes, it's just
being clever. This is beingsmart, isn't even working the
system, it's falling in linewith this system, it's
understanding the system, andmake sure it works for you.
Yeah. And on the topic ofstewardship, because we're so
passionate about this, I thinkthis is the time to tell them
(16:27):
how we are helping churches withtheir stewardship, which is
honestly, another money hack.
Well, the biggest hack of all isto check in on your merchant
processing fees, right? This issuper important that you
understand this, that you areliterally paying
2.9% 3.5% If there's a platformfee on your giving platform
right now, upwards of 5%. Justimagine like, if all time you
(16:52):
know what comes to your churchis $100 million, do you really
want $5 million to just go poof,into merchant processing.
That's, that's not a good look.
And that's not a good use ofresources. And so you want to
make sure that you're doingeverything that you can to
minimize merchant processingfees, we literally do a free
cost analysis, if you just giveus your payment processing
(17:15):
statements. And we can helpguide you on how to get that
even a lot of people don't knowhow to really retrieve that type
of data and that information,because these are the things is
trying to hide from you. Right,they don't want you to know all
the money, you're giving them10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s
millions of dollars over timethey are going to be giving to
merchant processing fees, we canhelp you extract that data, do
(17:36):
an analysis for you, and giveyou real ways to minimize
merchant processing fees. Andit's not just a win we've seen
minimized they're like, alright,you can save us a couple bucks.
Well, not really. It's a littlebit more than a couple bucks,
because tell them what we justfound out about that one church
(17:57):
in Virginia. Yeah, just want youto in Virginia over the course
of three years and just merchantprocessing fees, not including
the subscription cost we'regonna save for them on their
giving platform right now. We'regonna say them in just merchant
processing fees.
$150,000 $150,000. Yeah, I don'tknow, Virginia. I've never been
there. But I would assume that'sat least a couple staff members.
(18:21):
Oh, my gosh, that's, that'smassive. These are not like
little, you know, acorns. Thisis an oak tree that we're saving
you. Thank you, Joe. He gave methat one.
That's why I was Pat. But no, itreally is a big deal. And we can
get you the lowest fee. Right.
And the industry. Yeah, that'spretty guaranteed. No, no, it's
(18:42):
literally guaranteed. I'm notjust blowing smoke because we
can underwrite specific ratesfor your church. Because of the
full stack financial technologysolution that we built. It's the
first of its kind in itsindustry. And literally, we can
guarantee the lowest. And so ifyou would like to take advantage
(19:03):
of that Lincoln bio, I'm justkidding. It's not Lincoln bio.
It's up podcast is the link inthe description. But it's also
overflow.co is how you can shownotes. I've always loved to say
that because I for the longesttime didn't even know where the
show notes were. I thoughtpeople were lying. But you
didn't know to scroll up. Nobodythought because the whole like
Apple podcast app thing was kindof confusing for the show notes
(19:26):
where I get it now. Okay, guys,says the Silicon Valley co
founder Sheesh.
You're gonna live with thatmistake. You just admitting to
everyone you don't know how touse your iPhone. No, I'm more
relatable now.
That's right. Thank you for thatvulnerability. Thanks for
sharing that. Okay, well, I lovethis episode on money hacks,
which is actually juststewardship, which we know you
(19:48):
all care about. So we'll see younext time. Thanks so much for
listening to the give it uppodcast if you want to receive
even more insights on churchinnovation, culture and giving
now you can signup for free to be an overflow
insider where you'll receiveexclusive content discounts
direct access to Vance Roush toget your questions answered, and
also invite only access to ourmonthly fundraising leadership
(20:11):
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the podcast players what peopleare enjoying and want to hear
more of and we are adamant aboutproviding maximum value to even
(20:34):
more church leaders. Thanks somuch. We'll see you next time.
So I think it'd be a fun idea to do a money hacks
(00:05):
episode. Let's go. Everybodyloves money hacks. Oh, life
hacks in general, people loveit. We love a good hack. Except
(00:28):
if it's for your own credit cardinformation that we don't like
(00:50):
hacks. Nope. But thankfully, wecare Dr. Sock two, type two, the
only giving platform that weknow of in our space that is SOC
two type two compliant ongoingauditing across our security and
compliance protocol to keep yourdata and your information safe.
Which means we deeply careabout, hey, that email you get
from even big tech companies,they're like, oh, by the way,
(01:14):
your info guy. I got two, two ofthose last week, you know, and
one was from the government. Ifeel so helpless. Sometimes. Me
too. It's just like, so whatdoes that mean? Like? Am I going
to lose all my money? Like, am Igonna lose my identity? My
waiting? Yeah, it's just like,it's just literally FYI. There's
like, no recourse. Like, do Isue you now? Like, what is a
(01:35):
class action suit? I'm gonna geta check later. I don't know what
this means. And the reward forthis is like in now you get
three free months of security onthe back end. Protection. I'm
like, What a gift. You shouldn'tgive him this maybe beforehand,
not after you must know. Andthis is why I get an
estrangement number. Now, I getso many spam calls and text
(01:56):
messages, text messages. Soannoying. I think it's because
every time you have to pay forsomething. You have to put a
phone number out there everytime. But why? Because then it's
on the package. Now all the upsFedEx and USPS drivers are
getting numbers. People areselling Saida black market out
there people agree. Anyways,it's not about security today.
(02:18):
It's about money hacks. Sosecurity about savings.
Great. We love alliterationhere. Oh, you're a pastor, you
live in this land? We have to doit. Yes. I'm talking to pastors.
They love it. Exactly. And Iwant to talk about some ways in
which people can save within thechurch context, whether you work
at a church, or you just go tochurch, and I'm gonna come and
(02:42):
hang out with one, it's gonnarile some people up. And I care
us not.
Because I think a life hack, letalone or money hack is to
actually ties on a credit cardthat gives you a percentage
cashback, get them because youcan give more that way. And you
(03:03):
know, who's paying for thatcashback? That company who's
giving you the money back? SoI'm like, so basically, I'm also
partnering with AmEx, Amex isalso giving to my church. I
wanted to give them thatopportunity. Wait, so you get
cashback through Amex? I forgetwhich card it is. But yeah, were
you talking about like you titheon your Amex or your credit card
(03:25):
or whatever for like the troublepoints? No, I'm saying getting
getting cashback not for pointsgetting just straight up. Yeah,
that's I took that profit offthe tithe. Wow. No, I'm not
profiting.
We give more that way. Well, yougive the cash back. Yes. Wow.
Yes. That's, that's how I shouldarticulate it. Yeah. Wait, so
(03:47):
you are giving like, more than10%? Yeah. So basically, we're
making Amex MasterCard and Visago fund with you. Yes. I wrote.
You. Yes. Okay. Fire is givingwith you. Oh my gosh. Wow, new
thing I give with you. Be like anew flex on Instagram. Like so.
I give with a mix. Yeah.
(04:10):
They, they sponsored this typetoday.
But I think it's a it's a funway to that's, that's um, that's
okay. Okay, then I mean, I mean,that's, that's it's only okay. I
was excited about decent. That'sdecent. You got some nerves. So
you're like increasing yourgiving by, you know, some basis
(04:33):
points. Golf Club, golf club.
Thank you. Standing ovationwould be double your giving by
corporate matching.
If you work for a fortune 500company that has a corporate
gift matching program, like anapple or a Google I'm talking
about Silicon Valley companiesbut if you're in the Midwest, if
(04:55):
you're in the south, you wouldknow your local fortune 500
company Coca ColaWhatever that might be, they
will match your giving up to acertain amount.
I know Apple just down thestreet, they match up to
$10,000 $10,000. Oh, and so youknow, that was cute. Give with a
(05:17):
mix. Yeah, it makes sense foryou back to my game. Let me give
with you or you can get youremployer to double your giving
double your money. I heard thatthere's another company that
does that to overflow. We helpfacilitate it. Just lowbrow.
help maximize giving we'reunlocking you also matching more
ways to save? Oh, our company?
Yes, we do. I know. Oh, by theway, here it was brand new. More
(05:38):
than that. We do more than that.
Yes. So first of all, we believein the time so we can't go
anywhere. We are not willing togo ourselves. So we tithe off of
our revenue, people, none of ourprofit because we're a startup
and we don't make no money. Wedon't make no profit profit yet.
We will be profitable one day.
Amen. But we are growing. We'rein reinvesting into growth. But
off the top off the revenue.
(06:03):
We are giving back toessentially the local church.
That's our primary customer.
Yeah, but basically 10% And youknow, as cool as a portion of
that, we allow our employees ourflow fair, we divvy it up and
they get to give to thecharitable organizations that
they want to direct it towards.
(06:25):
Which is pretty cool. We writeletters to these organizations.
These organizations are sosurprised. They're giving
platforms also giving to them.
Yeah. Which is super cool. Butwe also yes, you're right. We
do. We do match your giving thatalso comes out of our we also
give with you Sheesh, yeah, lookat that. Now imagine if we did
that matching, but then alsoused cashback credit cards on
(06:47):
that. It's everybody's ballgameat that point. Yeah, sorry. I
wasn't trying to diminish yourNo, it sounds like you were but
yeah, that'll be the last tipyou hear from me, you can take
the rest of the episode.
No, but money hacks. You know, alot of people don't realize that
there are massive tax incentivesfor giving. Now most people know
(07:11):
it's like, yeah, when you giveto a 501 C three, you get a
charitable tax deduction. Butpeople don't understand the
impact of giving things outsideof cash, like stock and crypto.
So let's quickly I know wetalked about this often, but not
everyone's heard it. Talk aboutthe tax incentives for giving
noncash to a nonprofit? Well,let's talk about that. But let's
(07:31):
just talk about it in general,because one of the most powerful
itemized deduction possibilitiesyou have if you give over a
certain threshold, don't quoteme on this, it's I think over
12,000, if you're single, maybeover 18,000, if you're married
filing jointly, again, I mighthave those numbers off. But the
point is that if you get over acertain threshold per year, you
(07:54):
can start itemizing yourdeduction. And essentially, the
ducting off of your income taxrate, essentially, it's, it's,
it's one of the most powerfulthings that you can itemize
deductions for is charitablegiving. And so if you're a
tither, you're already going tobe close to that threshold or
(08:16):
exceeding that threshold bylarge measure in saving a ton on
taxes if you live in California,like me, or the other offensive
state, New York. Yeah. Andbasically, they just take all of
my paycheck every single time.
Really, that tax rate can belooked at as a subsidy for my
giving. Because ultimately, I'mgonna get a lot of that back.
(08:38):
Because I am also giving back tomy community, my church, other
charitable organizations. And soit's super cool. I mean, that is
kind of a blessing and a benefitwe have in America as we got
credit for that. Yeah. And soyes, I'm going to stay in
California, we have nicebeaches, we have nice towns, we
have beautiful weather, it's inNorCal really mild unless Jolin
(09:01):
Zhou come in. It's really coldand rainy, only when they come
in. Butthat's the big advantage for
giving overall, there's anadditional advantage if you give
non cash assets. And becausewhen you give of your capital
gains, specifically yourappreciated gains when you give
(09:22):
up that it is completelyprotected from any taxes.
Because when you transfer thosecapital gains to a church or
charitable organization, andthey liquidate it instead of
you, because they're a taxexempt organization, they keep
all of the gains. Oh, it's a winwin. Except for Uncle Sam. I
(09:46):
like that because most peoplewant to keep all the gains when
it comes to working out. Butthere's more than one ways to
keep all your gains. There wasone that was a mom joke and
you're gonna be a mom soon. Oh,why is this the Joker's podcast?
So, just everybody knows. Okay,it's like cirrhosis me for this.
It's not a roast. It's anencouraged. Yeah, I guess you're
(10:06):
just trying to make it.
Roast. I don't know what we aregiven a podcast at some point
we're gonna do like a bigreveal. That's gonna be fun. Oh,
it's the day comes and when theday comes, we will but that day
is not just gonna tune in justfor that. Is this the episode?
Yeah, what's happening Jared isgonna tune in is this the
(10:27):
episode?
Like that was how I announcedit. I was like, Yeah, I need you
to listen to this. He's like,why am I listening to? That's
right. It's for pastors, you'retelling me you recorded this two
months ago? And you're justtelling me now?
Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Butyou've also learned a lot about
(10:47):
money hacks. Being a pastor,what are some other ones that
you can think of? I know there'sa housing allowance thing. Can
you tell us about that and howpeople can maximize certain
provisions that have yeah,there's what's called a clergy
housing allowance. You know,the, I think the history behind
this, again, don't quote me onthis. But to my understanding
the way it's worded in the IRS,the way it's worded in the the
(11:10):
tax forms that you have to fillout to qualify for this. So that
you can be compliant, is theyuse words like parsonage. And so
my assumption is that this wascreated, so that there could be
a tax free way for ministers andclergy to have housing.
(11:30):
You know, you do see that thereare mega churches out there that
are well financed and wellfunded. Yeah, but there are over
300,000 churches in America,most are not overly financed and
overly funded. Yeah. And sothese advantages that the
government has provided, kind oflike a subsidy really helps the
(11:56):
average minister be able toafford things like housing.
Okay, if you have a minister,that is counseling, shepherding,
helping people in the community,you don't want them to struggle
for a house, you don't want themto struggle, yeah, for finding a
home and having a place to sleepand host and meet with people.
(12:19):
And so those are there are theseadvantages. So it is called the
clergy housing allowance, thereis this worksheet that you need
to fill out and fall away onyour records in case you get
audited. Because it allows youto fill out pretty much not just
housing, but things that go intokind of the day to day expenses.
(12:46):
So there's things likefurniture, there's things like
utilities, there's, you know,things that would be the bills
related to housing, too, you canput on this worksheet. And then
basically, you take your salaryminus whatever you calculate on
that worksheet. And thedifference of that is the thing
(13:07):
that gets taxed. Well, a lot oftimes, that allows pastors to
stay in lower tax brackets, thatallows pastors and clergy to be
able to pursue housing andhousing related expenses,
without needing to be taxed onthat as well. And it's in
addition to also having to spendon that. So it is good from the
(13:31):
standpoint of you think aboutit, especially in like places
like California, New York. Yeah.
You're getting a bump of youknow, I don't know, 10 20%. On
your overall compensation. Yeah,if you didn't have that. And so
that allows the church to nothave to pay crazy large salaries
(13:52):
and expend a lot of money tostaffing, when pastors and
clergy can specifically takeadvantage of this. So it just
makes the allocation of funds alot more efficient and
optimized. Thanks to thegovernment. Really? Yeah. That's
so crazy. I've never heard ofthat before. That's a big money
hack. What else you got?
(14:14):
Money hacks?
You know, I think that when itcomes to I mean, where do we
want to go do want to go forpastors for churches? What do
you think the felt need is?
Let's go one more pastors, andthen we'll go to churches. Yeah.
SoI think money hacks for pastors,
and I don't like to frame it ashacks, because all of this is
(14:36):
just trying to managestewardship, right? Yeah.
But there are certain things asa pastor that you're probably
primarily using for theministry. Right. And so for
example,let's say, you know, you're
literally on your phone all daydoing pastoral calls, like
(15:00):
that maybe you shouldn'tconsider either the church
covering some of that expense.
Or at the very least, if you'reusing it for work, you can use
it as a write off, or a taxdeduction, you can obviously
apply this principle to anythingelse that you're primarily
using. For the ministry. Thereare things like car and home
(15:21):
office expenses, that was a bigthing in the pandemic, where a
lot of pastors and ministers aresetting up offices in their
homes, they're renting servicesfrom their homes, and there's a
lot of paperwork that you needto fill out to make it proper.
Like you have to understand thesquare footage and break down.
Oh, wow, specifically that thehousehold that's allotted for
(15:42):
Office is and you need to makesure you keep receipts if you're
going to deduct things likemileage, if you're driving to
visit people and things likethat. Because again, if you're
audited, all these things willbe checked. Yeah. But if you can
be on top of those things, youcan be clever. You can for the
things you're already doing forthe ministry anyways, use it as
(16:02):
a tax advantage as well.
This is not really a hack. It'sjust stewardship. Yes, it's just
being clever. This is beingsmart, isn't even working the
system, it's falling in linewith this system, it's
understanding the system, andmake sure it works for you.
Yeah. And on the topic ofstewardship, because we're so
passionate about this, I thinkthis is the time to tell them
(16:27):
how we are helping churches withtheir stewardship, which is
honestly, another money hack.
Well, the biggest hack of all isto check in on your merchant
processing fees, right? This issuper important that you
understand this, that you areliterally paying
2.9% 3.5% If there's a platformfee on your giving platform
right now, upwards of 5%. Justimagine like, if all time you
(16:52):
know what comes to your churchis $100 million, do you really
want $5 million to just go poof,into merchant processing.
That's, that's not a good look.
And that's not a good use ofresources. And so you want to
make sure that you're doingeverything that you can to
minimize merchant processingfees, we literally do a free
cost analysis, if you just giveus your payment processing
(17:15):
statements. And we can helpguide you on how to get that
even a lot of people don't knowhow to really retrieve that type
of data and that information,because these are the things is
trying to hide from you. Right,they don't want you to know all
the money, you're giving them10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s
millions of dollars over timethey are going to be giving to
merchant processing fees, we canhelp you extract that data, do
(17:36):
an analysis for you, and giveyou real ways to minimize
merchant processing fees. Andit's not just a win we've seen
minimized they're like, alright,you can save us a couple bucks.
Well, not really. It's a littlebit more than a couple bucks,
because tell them what we justfound out about that one church
(17:57):
in Virginia. Yeah, just want youto in Virginia over the course
of three years and just merchantprocessing fees, not including
the subscription cost we'regonna save for them on their
giving platform right now. We'regonna say them in just merchant
processing fees.
$150,000 $150,000. Yeah, I don'tknow, Virginia. I've never been
there. But I would assume that'sat least a couple staff members.
(18:21):
Oh, my gosh, that's, that'smassive. These are not like
little, you know, acorns. Thisis an oak tree that we're saving
you. Thank you, Joe. He gave methat one.
That's why I was Pat. But no, itreally is a big deal. And we can
get you the lowest fee. Right.
And the industry. Yeah, that'spretty guaranteed. No, no, it's
(18:42):
literally guaranteed. I'm notjust blowing smoke because we
can underwrite specific ratesfor your church. Because of the
full stack financial technologysolution that we built. It's the
first of its kind in itsindustry. And literally, we can
guarantee the lowest. And so ifyou would like to take advantage
(19:03):
of that Lincoln bio, I'm justkidding. It's not Lincoln bio.
It's up podcast is the link inthe description. But it's also
overflow.co is how you can shownotes. I've always loved to say
that because I for the longesttime didn't even know where the
show notes were. I thoughtpeople were lying. But you
didn't know to scroll up. Nobodythought because the whole like
Apple podcast app thing was kindof confusing for the show notes
(19:26):
where I get it now. Okay, guys,says the Silicon Valley co
founder Sheesh.
You're gonna live with thatmistake. You just admitting to
everyone you don't know how touse your iPhone. No, I'm more
relatable now.
That's right. Thank you for thatvulnerability. Thanks for
sharing that. Okay, well, I lovethis episode on money hacks,
which is actually juststewardship, which we know you
(19:48):
all care about. So we'll see younext time. Thanks so much for
listening to the give it uppodcast if you want to receive
even more insights on churchinnovation, culture and giving
now you can signup for free to be an overflow
insider where you'll receiveexclusive content discounts
direct access to Vance Roush toget your questions answered, and
also invite only access to ourmonthly fundraising leadership
(20:11):
forums, head to overflow.cobackslash insider, or just click
the link in our bio to sign upfor free today. In order to get
this podcast in the ears of evenmore church leaders. Could you
please subscribe and leave areview for the show? This tells
the podcast players what peopleare enjoying and want to hear
more of and we are adamant aboutproviding maximum value to even
(20:34):
more church leaders. Thanks somuch. We'll see you next time.
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