Burnout is a SCAM: Maegan Megginson on Redefining Success and Finding True Wealth

In this game-changing episode, we sit down with Maegan Megginson, therapist-turned-business-mentor, to uncover the truths about burnout and how to reclaim your life. Megan shares her powerful insights on breaking free from societal pressures and creating a life that aligns with your values. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, stuck, or just tired of the hustle, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways to help you move forward. Here’s what you’ll learn:

• Why most burnout advice is a scam (and what really works).
• How capitalism and patriarchy fuel perfectionism and exhaustion.
• The difference between true burnout and just needing a vacation.
• Why non-monetary revenue—like time and joy—is the ultimate wealth.
• Simple, actionable micro-changes to reignite your energy and align with your values.
• How to reconnect with joy and pleasure, even in small everyday moments.

Tune in to explore why living a life in alignment with your values is the ultimate form of success. Don’t miss this conversation—it’s time to stop surviving and start thriving!

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Quick question for y'all.
Have you ever felt like you arerunning on empty, trying to be
everything to everyone and youstill feel like you're falling
short?
Well, today we are divingheadfirst into the burnout
epidemic with someone who knowsit inside and out.
This is a therapist turnedbusiness mentor, Megan Megginson

(00:21):
and she is here to drop some attruth bombs.
About why most burnout advice istotal BS and how we can truly
liberate ourselves from thishustle and grind culture.
So trust me, this episode is thewake up call that you didn't
know you needed.
And it is so timely with theholidays amongst us.

(00:43):
But you know where you're at.
Y'all welcome to the glassceiling and sticky floor
podcast.
The show, the tier to empoweryou to break free from the
limiting beliefs, ditch toxicbehaviors, and unlock the
infinite possibilities waitingfor you.
This is your time to live yourbest life on apologetically.
I'm Eric Rooney, your host andbiggest cheerleader on a mission

(01:04):
to get more women into positionsof power and keep them there
where they belong.
If you're ready to shatterceilings, crush self-doubt and
build a career and lifeoverflowing with growth and
abundance.
You're in the right place.
Here's the deal.
We talk about the hard stuffhere.
Imposter syndrome,perfectionism, fear, burnout,
you name it.

(01:24):
It's raw.
It's honest.
And it is exactly what you needto level up.
So grab a seat, pop in those earbuds and let's dive in.

Maegan (01:33):
Okay.

Erica (01:49):
a seven figure business owner.
Let me repeat that seven figureowner.
Okay.
Her unique magic weaves togetherthe practical and the spiritual
elements that we need to createsuccessful businesses and truly
wealthy lives, which let's bereal, y'all.
We all want and need that.
And today we are going to diveall in on all the good stuff,

(02:12):
like the bad burnout advice thatwe've been getting.
The number one question that wewant to ask ourselves to be more
successful and less stressed.
That's me.
But then also we're going totalk about how you can generate
non monetary revenue to payyourself in rest, time, freedom,
flexibility, and happiness,which y'all know what I'm going

(02:34):
through right now, leavingcorporate, starting my own
business, doing all the things.
So I need to go all in on someof that non monetary revenue
y'all.
But Megan is here to tell ussomething that we probably all
already know, which is.
That the way that we work, it'snot working, but she's here to
help us find a better way.
So Megan, welcome to the GlassCeiling and Sticky Floor
Podcast.

(02:54):
I'm so glad you're here.

Maegan (02:56):
Erica, thank you so much for having me and I have to say,
you're giving me a real blastfrom the past because originally
I'm from Houston, Texas and I, Imoved to the West Coast, uh,
almost 10 years ago now and justyour y'alls are like butter on
my toast this morning.

Erica (03:11):
Oh my gosh.
It cracks me up because I'm inNorth Carolina and of course I
don't think I have a Southernaccent, but then when I talk to
people outside of NorthCarolina, they come to me and
they're like, wow,

Maegan (03:24):
It's strong, it's adorable, I'm here for it.
This is great.

Erica (03:28):
Oh my God.
Well, I would love to hear moreabout your story.
You know, were you the businessmentor first?
Were you the therapist first?
Like, how did we get thisversion of Megan today?

Maegan (03:38):
Yeah, such a great question and I'm going to give
you the TLDR version of thisanswer.
Um, so I started as a therapistfirst.
I actually became a therapistright out of college.
I was a psychology undergrad,um, and I was just totally
enraptured by couples therapy inparticular.

(03:59):
So I went straight fromundergrad into a grad program
that specialized in couplestherapy and I And came out of
that program.
I worked in a small grouppractice for a minute before I
was like, what, what am I doing?
Like, I'm an entrepreneur, honorwho you are, go into private
practice.
And I was in private practice asa couples and sex therapist for

(04:21):
many years before I moved toPortland.
Like I mentioned a minute ago,back in, in 2016.
Um, and when I moved toPortland, I was ready.
I was ready to expand, right?
There was this ambitious part ofme that was just kind of itching
to get out of the cage.
And, uh, when we moved acrossthe country, my husband and I,
and our, our three adorablebeagles, um, he quit his job.

(04:45):
He was a corporate chemicalengineer.
He was totally worked, uh, burntout on, on the corporate life.
And we landed in Portland andjust had this real kind of
reckoning with our lives.
You know, what are, what are wedoing?
What do we want to create forourselves?
And it felt like the next rightthing to do was to start hiring
other therapists and, andcreating a group practice, uh,

(05:08):
he and I working together.
He was doing the moreengineering type tasks, you
know, things that requiredspreadsheets.
And I was doing the peoplemanaging, I was seeing my own
caseload of clients.
That was going great.
But I, I reached a point acouple of years later where it
actually was born out of anepisode of burnout, which maybe
we'll talk about later.

(05:30):
But.
I realized that the way I wasworking wasn't sustainable and
also that I was feeling calledto change the way I was working.
I was feeling really called towork with business owners
outside of the traditionalWestern psychotherapy paradigm.
So I started exploring businesscoaching and for several years I

(05:51):
was doing both.
I was seeing therapy clients.
I was working with businesscoaching clients.
I was managing this therapycenter that was, you know,
growing Year after year, it wasgetting bigger and long story
short.
I realized over time that Ineeded to let go of my role as a

(06:11):
therapist.
I needed to step away from beingthe leader and the manager of a
business that was built onhiring more and more employees.
And I needed to create somethingreally small, really simple, but
with huge impact.
And, and that's where we aretoday with, with deeply rested,
which is the name of thebusiness where I work with

(06:34):
business owners, less businesscoaching now, and more
mentorship around, you know, howdo we as business owners remove
ourselves from some of thetoxicity of capitalism, um, so
that we can take good care ofourselves, our communities,
while also creating businessesthat are providing for us
financially.
And here we are having, havingcoffee on a Tuesday morning

Erica (06:59):
at election day at that

Maegan (07:01):
on election

Erica (07:02):
clear.
This is not going to go live onelection day, but this is a very
high anxiety day for all ofAmerica.
Okay.
So we might as well be talkingabout burnout, right?
Like,

Maegan (07:13):
might as well.
Right.

Erica (07:15):
a lot of people in that space today, but let's go ahead
and dive into the good stuff.
Like, I was so intrigued becauseyou have said that a lot of it,
of the advice that we get aroundburnout is total crap.
Like take time off, hire help,all of that stuff that, you
know, sounds good to me.
So why is that bad advice?
And then of course, what shouldwe be doing?

Maegan (07:38):
Let's talk for a minute, if it's okay, about what burnout
is, because I

Erica (07:41):
Yeah, let's do that because it is a buzzword right
now and I think there's a lot ofum, I don't know, I guess just
assumptions on what burnout isand what it's not.
So I would love to hear what isburnout.

Maegan (07:54):
Yeah, and I think this is a really helpful place to
start because nobody, like, noneof us know exactly what it, what
it is to be burnt out, right?
You said it is a buzzword, it'sin the zeitgeist.
People are talking about it,they're using the word, but
we're all using the word inslightly different ways.
And at the core, that's okay.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter, like, what itmeans to be clinically burnt out

(08:15):
or casually burnt out.
It doesn't

Erica (08:17):
Potato

Maegan (08:18):
if you're, right, if you're suffering.
you're suffering.
But I find that when we'resuffering, it can be really
helpful to discern what's myunique flavor of suffering.
Because the clearer I can get onwhat's going on for me, the
easier it's going to be to findthe solutions that help give me
relief the quickest.

(08:38):
Right?
So sometimes people confuseburnout with depression, right?
They can look really similar.
It can be hard to really puzzleout which, which one am I?
It can be hard to discernburnout from just being tired,
right?
From, from needing a break.
I think the best way to thinkabout burnout, it's the state
energetically where you juststop caring about all of the

(09:01):
things that used to reallymatter to you, right?
So if you used to really careabout your team.
If you used to really care aboutyour clients, if you, if you're,
if you have a mission and usedto get lit up when you talked
about that mission, you wantedto get out there and talk about
it and do good work in theworld.
If you used to love going toyour kid's school recital and

(09:24):
now all of those things make youangry, resentful, or you just
like can't muster the energy todo it.
It's a good sign that you mightbe struggling.
with burnout, which you can justthink like you used to be, you
used to be a candle with abeautiful, strong flame.
And now you've been like dousedin water.

(09:44):
And it's like, you can't getthat candle to relight.
Right.
So it really is prettysignificant when we're in
burnout.
We often need some type of majorintervention, major support to
help us get back to baseline.
If you feel like you resonatewith some of those qualities,
But you're not at the point yetwhere you really can't reignite

(10:06):
your own flame, then you mightbe like on the brink of burnout,
right?
You might be at a place whereyou need to make some changes.
You need to recharge yourbatteries, but you can get
yourself out of this holewithout needing to make any like
major massive changes.
Is that making sense so far?

Erica (10:25):
It does.
Let me ask you one questionbecause I heard this definition.
I don't know if it's adefinition more so as One
sentence about burnout, but itreally resonated with me and I'd
love to get your perspective onit But it's like if you just
need to take like a two dayVacation for some R& R and come
back at it like you were notburnt out Like if you are burnt

(10:47):
out you are Laid out on thecouch can't do anything like it
takes more than just a few daysoff if you are in true brown
Would you and to me that kind ofhelped clarify it because I kept
showing it being like, yes,we're burnt out We're all burnt
out, you know You So, would yousay that that resonates with you
as well, or what's your thought?

Maegan (11:04):
definitely.
I think that in situation aright, you need a vacation.
If you can get a little break,recharge your batteries, come
back at it with a freshperspective.
What you're really looking at islike, Oh, I wonder if there's
like a more sustainable for meor more sustainable way for me
to show up in my work so that Idon't go through these ups and

(11:25):
downs.
Energetic ups and downs.
Because that's, to me, whatyou're describing, Erica.
It's like an energetic up anddown.
And we want to,

Erica (11:33):
sustainable way.

Maegan (11:34):
we want a more sustainable way so that when
we're engaging with our work, wedon't get to the point where
we're like, I can't send anotheremail.
Until I take a vacation.
No, you don't need to, that'slike, you don't need to feel
that way.
So I would say, yeah, that'slike at one end of the spectrum.
And then at the other end of thespectrum is I'm going to quit my
job.
I'm going to burn my business tothe ground.

(11:56):
I can't imagine doing this.
ever again.
It's, it's extreme.
It's, and it's, Oh, it's soheavy.
It's so sticky in the body.
And if you feel like you're onthat end of the spectrum, that's
when I really recommend seeing atherapist if you haven't
already, because we want to makesure that you're not actually
clinically depressed.
Right?
So again, they're cousins, butthey're not exactly the same.

(12:20):
You might be experiencingdepression.
If you have a deep sense ofhopelessness, Right?
If you have kind of a skewedperspective on your
relationships, if it's hard foryou to like accept love from the
people in your life, if you'recrying a lot, right?
If you're really angry becausedepression can go either way,
again, these are all things thatyou can experience when you're
burnout.

(12:41):
But if that burnout has trickleddown into a stickier depression,
we really want to highlight thatand get you to the right place
to get the support that you needto come out of it.
Burnout often doesn't requireTherapy.
I mean, to be clear, go totherapy.
Therapy's awesome

Erica (12:58):
gonna say,

Maegan (12:58):
do it.

Erica (13:00):
all the time, and I need everyone who listens to this
podcast to have their therapiston speed dial,

Maegan (13:05):
go to therapist, go, go to therapy, find a great
therapist, but it's, it's thatinner discernment, right?
When we're clinically depressed,like you probably aren't going
to be able to climb out of thathole yourself.
You're going to needprofessional support to do it.
When you're really burnt out,get professional support.
If you can afford it, if it'savailable to you, but if it's
not, don't worry because we cancrawl our way out of burnout on

(13:27):
our own, right?
Listening to this conversationis, is a great.
place to start.
What can we do when we're burntout to get to a better place, to
reignite our flame, to get to apoint where we can take a deep
breath again, kind of see theforest for the trees?
What can we do that's helpfuland what do people tell us to do

(13:49):
that is actuallyCounterproductive.

Erica (13:52):
That's where I wanna start.
Let's talk about the BS that'sactually pulling us through.
further down the burnout rabbithole.

Maegan (14:01):
Alright, so in order to do that, we do have to talk for
a minute about capitalism andpatriarchy.

Erica (14:06):
I actually am so glad you brought that up because I wrote
down earlier that you said thetoxicity of capitalism and I was
like, ooh, we're gonna go big

Maegan (14:14):
Yeah, we gotta go big.
We have to go big because if wedon't, we, it's like we're
trying to solve a problemwithout the proper tools.

Erica (14:23):
Got

Maegan (14:23):
you can't do that.
You can't light a candle withouta match.
And we have to be honest aboutwhy aren't, like, why?
Why are we burnt out in thefirst place?
Like, what is going on in theway my life is constructed that
leads me to the point where I amhopeless, demotivated?
Depressed, anxious, fill in theblank, whatever it might be.

(14:46):
Why is this happening?
Well, it's happening becausewe're operating inside of some
really oppressive societalsystems, right?
Capitalism is here to tell usthat your worth is based on your
productivity, right?
That we need to treat our bodieslike we are robots, that we are
here to produce, produce,produce, produce.
And capitalism is built on thefoundation of exponential

(15:07):
growth.
Right.
So quarter after quarter, yearafter year, we need to be doing
more, making more, being more.
It is absolutely unsustainable.
It's killing our planet.
It's killing our bodies.
And yet we're all operatinginside this very toxic system.
And then as women, we match thatup with patriarchy, right?
Which is a system of power thatis really organized around the

(15:31):
wounded masculine.
And men are just as just as muchvictims to the system of
patriarchy as women are, butsince mostly women are here
listening to this podcast, like,let's just talk for a minute
about the unique experience thatwe have as women operating
within a system that is reallyruled by by men, by dysfunction,

(15:51):
masculine values.
These are values that make usfeel like we're here to serve,
right?
That our job is to be in serviceto someone else, not to be in
service to ourself.
And that we need to stay busybecause there's so much to do.
And there are so many people toplease.
And if we don't please somebody,we're going to get kicked down
the ladder.

(16:12):
So whatever progress we've madeas women to empower ourselves,
to become financiallyindependent, to create
businesses or work our way up.
in whatever corporation we mightbe a part of.
It's constantly at risk of beingtaken away from us if we don't
perform in the right way.

Erica (16:31):
And then too, I would say double down on that if you are a
woman who is a mother or acaregiver, right?
Because we also then tack on allof these other responsibilities
and expectations that we get.
Essentially grade ourselves on,right?
Like, how good of a mom am I ifI do all of these things,

Maegan (16:49):
Mm hmm.

Erica (16:50):
does my kid show up to school with homemade chocolate
chip cookies?
Or do I just send in paperplates, right?
Like, let's be clear, I send inthe paper plates.
But, I remember those daysthinking of like, if it wasn't
perfect, it wasn't good enough.
And it, and it, that justcompounds it,

Maegan (17:05):
So perfectionism is a symptom of patriarchy, to be
clear, right?
Every single time we arestruggling with perfectionism,
it is because we are feeling thesqueeze of patriarchal
expectations.
Um, you know, like you said, bemore, do more, be the best all
the time, be the best caretakerat home, be the best employee at
work, be the best, mostsuccessful business owner.

(17:27):
All of these pressures aregetting pushed down on us
because Listen, when we'retired, when we're exhausted,
when we're burnt out, when wedon't have the mental capacity
to have conversations like this,we just keep playing the game by
the rules that have been givento us.
And that's what they want,right?
That's what our society, oursociety wants us to be
compliant, but being compliantleads to burnout.

(17:50):
So here's where we, here's wherethe puzzle shows up, Erica.
We're being compliant.
We're getting burnt out.
Society as a whole wants us tocontinue being compliant.
So they're not going to give usthe real, they're not going to
give us the real solutions toburnout because when you really
start to heal your burnout, yougo through a whole liberation
process.

(18:11):
Where you really startdeprogramming from some of these
toxic belief systems that you'reready to just throw in the
garbage can.
So this system is, it's a littlebit invested in making sure that
we're too busy to think aboutthis, but we have enough energy
to be productive.
And that's what most of, Theburnout advice out there really

(18:33):
aims to do, right?
It doesn't aim to heal the rootcause of why I am draining
myself dry, why I am extractingmy own precious resources.
No, they don't want us to lookat that.
They just want us to feel justbetter enough so that we can
keep producing, keep being more,keep being perfect.
Does that make sense?

Erica (18:55):
It does.
And I just, it's a little sad,you know, I'm like, damn, all
that makes so much sense.
And I keep thinking back to allof the women that I know who are
so successful, who have justbeen chasing and climbing the
corporate ladder.
And like, that's why we see somany women who actually get to
the top of this ladder.
It's like, we finally have aclear view and we look around at

(19:17):
the patriarchy and all the otherbullshit that's there.
And we're like, This is whatI've been working my ass off
for.
But I'm really interestedbecause yes, I can now very
clearly see how all of thosetactics like taking time off are
just stop gaps.
You know, it's like theworkaround, whatever you want to
call it.
But then what should we bedoing?

Maegan (19:38):
Yeah, so let me just say one more thing about, like, the
bad burnout advice.
You know that burnout advice,like, is, you should be
skeptical about any piece ofburnout advice that asks you to
do more or to pay for something.
Okay.
Like

Erica (19:54):
that's pretty clear.
Don't do more and don't pay forshit you don't need.

Maegan (19:58):
that's right.
Right.
Cause so a lot, let's thinkabout this for a minute.
Like for example, um, burnoutadvice, especially for high
achieving, perfectionistic womenwill be like, well, you need to
hire some support, right?
You need to outsource, you needto delegate.
Okay.
Listen, this is, this is nuancedbecause like, if you can afford
to hire someone to clean yourhouse and do your laundry and
prep your meals, and you want todo that, fuck yeah, do it.

(20:20):
That's great.
That's awesome.
But what happens is that a lotof women are pressured into
making these decisions whenthey're in places where it's not
actually financially responsiblefor them to do that, right?
Or, or it's not where they wanttheir money to go in their life.
So we start feeling reallypressured to, to do that.
Dish out money to hire supportso that we can keep doing more.

(20:43):
Okay.
If I hire someone to clean myhouse, if I hire a virtual
assistant to manage my inbox, ifI, you know, hire someone to
prep my meals, then I'll havemore energy to.
Work harder, achieve more, makemore money.
If you find yourself in thatparadigm, you need to hit pause
because you are just runningfaster on the hamster wheel.

(21:04):
Like that's all you're doing inthat situation.
It's not gonna lead to youfeeling better in a, in a
sustainable way.
It's a quick fix that's just,you're just kicking the can down
the road.

Erica (21:16):
I love that you said that because I cannot tell you how
many people have told me to geta house cleaner like

Maegan (21:21):
Mm-hmm

Erica (21:22):
Years people have been telling me to get a house
cleaner and could I afford one?
Sure, but when I really sat downand I looked at it, Megan, I was
like, that's not going to solveany of my problems.
Like, I'm not stressed out aboutmy house.
Now, if I was, maybe that wouldhave been Been a solution, you
know, but that wasn't somethingthat was going to solve any
problem for me.

(21:43):
So I love that you bring that upbecause you're right.
It's not a solution.

Maegan (21:47):
It's what I, to be dramatic, what I like to say is
it's a band aid on a fatalwound.

Erica (21:52):
Yeah.
Well, and not only that, butthen you're actually adding like
the mental workload of, is myhouse clean before the house
cleaner is dumb?
Like, have I put awayeverything?
I don't want them to see.
Did I pay them?
Are they here?
Oh, they can't come.
I have to reschedule.
And there's.
even more stuff that you're

Maegan (22:07):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

Erica (22:08):
that's supposed to make your life easier.

Maegan (22:10):
It's too much.
We're over complicating in aneffort to simplify and it's a
trick, you know, it's like, it'sa scam! Back away! Run in the
other direction!

Erica (22:19):
is a scam.

Maegan (22:21):
The other big one is Burnout advice that requires you
to, like, read a book aboutproductivity.
Or, like, learn this new methodof, like, how to be less
stressed out, right?
If you have to do work, if youhave to buy something, or learn
something, or implement some newsystem to make your life more

(22:42):
efficient, you're kicking thatcan down the road.
Again, it might make you feelmomentarily better.
But actually you're justdoubling down on how much is
expected of you because we alsoget caught caught in some cost
fallacy when we startimplementing these like burnout
interventions where we'reputting so much time and money
and energy into ways to make ourlife better, that we think our

(23:07):
life should be getting better.
And when it doesn't get better,instead of shifting gears and
trying a different approach,we're like, Oh my God, but I've
already done all, I've alreadylike, now I like have the
housekeeper.
I don't want to fire them.
You know, it's like,

Erica (23:21):
Right?
Then I gotta do that?

Maegan (23:23):
Yeah, that makes me feel bad.
So then we're just like doublingdown.
We're doubling down on our ownsuffering.
And the only people who arebenefiting are that this is this
larger societal system ofcapitalism and patriarchy.
And we don't have to do that.
We can step away from that.
We can step in anotherdirection, but it's going to
ruffle some feathers.

(23:44):
That's what I want to say beforewe start talking about.
Um, You know, the other side ofthis coin that when you decide,
I want to step out of thistoxicity, I want to step out of
this dysfunctional way ofliving, of existing, the people
who are still mired in it, whoare still committed to it,
they're not going to like you,they're not going to like what
you represent.

(24:05):
you are going to feel reallythreatening to them.
So you have to really shoreyourself up internally to make
sure that you're strong enoughand you're grounded enough to do
the liberation work of removingyourself from some of these
toxic ways of living.

Erica (24:21):
And I would also just caution that these people will
be very close in your innercircle too, because they all
benefit from it as well.
And when you start to change,not everybody is ready for that
change.
So

Maegan (24:33):
that's right.

Erica (24:34):
just a little disclaimer from my own lived experiences,

Maegan (24:38):
Mine too.
I'm sure you experience that.
I mean, you said earlier thatyou're moving out of corporate
into working for yourself.
Like, I'm sure that there arepeople in your corporate circles
who have a lot of judgmentsabout the

Erica (24:50):
Oh, yes, girl.
Oh, yes, girl.

Maegan (24:52):
Right.
That's what we in the therapyspace call shadow work, right?
That like when we get reallyirritated or have big reactions
about things other people aredoing, decisions other people
are making, it's often anindicator that that, that
represents a shadow withinmyself, some part of me that I'm
not ready to look at or get toknow or face.

(25:15):
Right.
And that's a great example.
Like if someone in yourcorporate circle says, I'm out
of here.
You know, I'm, I'm going to domy own business.
I'm going to liberate myselffrom this system.
And you feel tons of judgmenttowards her.
That probably means there's apart of you that wants that
freedom and flexibility as well,but it feels too scary to look
at it just yet.

Erica (25:35):
Hmm.
Yeah, I would say spot on and Iwould say spot on from my own
judgments that I've put on otherpeople, too.

Maegan (25:41):
A hundred percent, yeah.
I've got, I, I, I mean, I'm notperfect by any means, but I've
gotten better at this point inmy life at, at more quickly
recognizing when I'm judgingsomeone else.
And then going like, hmm, whatis, what is it about, what am I
judging about them that Isecretly harbor within myself?
And Can I spend some timeexploring that?

(26:03):
Anyways, separate, separatepodcast

Erica (26:05):
We're going down a rabbit hole here, but do your shadow
work.
Back to burnout.

Maegan (26:10):
that's right.
Yeah.
Do your shadow work back toburnout.
Um, yes.
Okay.
So should we talk about Some

Erica (26:17):
Yes, girl.
I'm dying to know because I, Ialready want to hang up with you
and stardom and I don't evenknow what they are

Maegan (26:23):
Yeah.
Well, I think you're I mean fromwhat I'm hearing you're already
doing a great job Erica So kudosto you Okay, so in order to
really remove ourself from theseparadigms to heal burnout within
ourselves We have to first dosome deep self inquiry, right?
We have to like written this iswhere therapy can be really
helpful But also like you, youare, you can do this yourself.

(26:47):
You can do this with a friend.
You have so many options of likehow you can do this work.
I think it starts with some deepbreaths and some deep questions,
right?
What do I really value in mylife?
Right?
What really matters to me?
What do I feel sad about notexperiencing or not doing in my

(27:08):
life right now?
If we can start with some ofthose reflection questions, and
if we can be really honest withourself, what we do is we begin
to create our own roadmap forwhat kind of changes we need to
make in our lives.
Right.
So maybe you ask yourself thosequestions and, uh, well, I mean,

(27:29):
I was going to just make up ananswer, but I'm, I'm curious for
you, Erica, like what, whatwould some of those answers be
for you?
Like when you really kind ofthink about what you value and
what's most important to you,what comes up?

Erica (27:40):
Yeah.
Well, I love the valuesquestion.
I'm a big values person.
So for me, obviously family, mykids, they're, uh, six and nine.
So making sure that I'm presentfor them and focused on them.
Family for sure.
I'm a very big growth mindedperson.
So making sure that I'm alwaysgrowing, learning new things.
And then I always, uh, one of myvalues is also like health and

(28:01):
wellness and making sure that wealways take care of ourselves
emotionally, mentally,physically, all of the things.
Um, but when you talk about whatdo I think?
feel sad about not doing if Irewind like to a month ago when
I was back in corporate, I wasalways sad that I felt, uh,

(28:24):
preoccupied with work all thetime.

Maegan (28:27):
mm

Erica (28:27):
even when I wasn't working, my brain was still on
and still going, and beingpreoccupied about work meant I
couldn't be focused on my kidsand my family, right?
Because I was always stressed.
And that's what also made me sadabout what I was not doing, is I
noticed that because I wasalways preoccupied, my stress
levels were high, which meant Iwasn't having the type of
relationship that I wanted withmy kids, because I was more

(28:51):
short tempered, more

Maegan (28:52):
right.
Yeah.

Erica (28:57):
even go a little bit deeper and like what, what I
find interesting about it andmaybe can help somebody else is
when I was so unhappy incorporate, and this was two
years ago when I first reallystarted feeling unhappy, I went
out and I got an executivecoaching certification because
growth.
Step one, but then I was like,well, maybe it will just help me

(29:18):
with my job.
And so I did it, but to do whatI had to do, some pro bono
coaching hours with other women.
And when I did that, I could notignore how lit up and happy I
felt type of

Maegan (29:30):
Mm.

Erica (29:32):
corporate job.
And I think that contrast.
You know, really showed me thatlike all of the things I was
doing in my nine to five werenot lighting me up, bringing me
joy, making me feel fulfilled.
They weren't even making me feelproductive.
Right.
So like I was going to this job,nothing was getting resolved.
More loops just kept gettingopened.
Nothing kept getting closed.

(29:53):
Um, so yeah, a lot of it isabout like my emotional
availability for my family, Ithink.

Maegan (29:59):
Mm hmm.
Whoa, this is

Erica (30:02):
I know it was a lot.
It was a lot.
We're turning it into a therapy

Maegan (30:05):
great.
I'm here for it.
I'm I'm here for it.
I mean, this is how we learnright?
So I just want to thank thankyou for I as I was asking that
question.
I was like, I didn't ask Ericaif I was allowed to ask her
personal question.
So thanks for diving into thatto me.
I should have.

Erica (30:21):
listen to this show on the reg, they know all the

Maegan (30:23):
Great.
Good, good, good.
So I think that quick sidecomment in order to recover from
burnout, we have to tell honeststories about ourself.
We have to come back to a reallyancient tradition of
storytelling in our circles, inour communities.

(30:44):
That's why I love podcasts somuch, right?
Cause it gives us a way to tellreally vulnerable stories that
so many people have access to.
So when we get real with eachother and when, when we say like
my business or my corporate jobwas robbing me, of my ability to
be a good mom to my kids.
I have a client who calls her,she's working on this in her
business right now.
She calls herself monster mom.

(31:06):
She's like, when I'm like overfocused on my business, I turn
into monster mom.
You know, I'm like, I'm cranky.
I have, so I have littlepatience with my kids.
She's like, I hate that.
I hate who I am when that's allI have to give them.
And when we start saying, Thesekind of truths to each other,
you can imagine like we're alljust like standing at like the

(31:27):
cage of, of capitalism andpatriarchy with little chisels,
you know, and we're juststarting to chisel holes in the
wall or putting cracks in thefoundation and eventually we're
going to tear it all to theground.
And it's not going to be somebig dramatic flourish.
It's going to be all of ustelling these kind of stories
and making these type of microshifts in our lives together.

(31:49):
Like this is huge.
The story you just shared is soincredibly important for the
liberation of all of us who arefeeling trapped in this way.
So thank you for your service.
Now, taking this a little bitdeeper.
We start to get clear just likeyou're doing on, yeah, it's a,

(32:10):
it's a hard question, but it's agreat question.
Like, what am I sad about?
Where do I feel grief?
Where do I feel regret?
And we start to see, we start toget honest with ourselves about
like, okay, I'm, I'm sopreoccupied with this shit that
like, I don't even care about.
Like on my deathbed, I'm noteven going to remember that I
did this.
I'm not even going to rememberthat this like was a project

(32:32):
that I gave so much of my lifeforce energy to and look at the
cost.
So this is another greatquestion when you're in this
exploration phase to askyourself, like, what is the cost
of of the decisions that I'mmaking.
What's the cost to my body?
What's the cost to my family?
What's the cost to the planet?

(32:53):
What's the cost to the peoplewho work under me, in my team,
or in my business?
We want to start to look at waysthat we are participating in an
extractive process.
An extractive way of existing onthis planet where we are just
taking, taking, taking fromourself, from our, from others,
from the earth.

(33:13):
That's another way to sort ofdeepen this exploration of
really noticing what's out ofalignment for me.
What is out of alignment for me?
And once we get clear on what'sout of alignment, then we can
start to make micro changes tobring ourselves back into
alignment.
And I say microchanges becausemost people don't have the
privilege or the luxury ofsnapping their fingers and

(33:35):
changing their entire livesovernight.
You know, it took you two years.

Erica (33:39):
your job guys.
Don't go run out and quit yourday

Maegan (33:41):
Right, right.
Unless you have a trust fund ora partner who doesn't require
income, in which case quit thatfucking job, you know, like

Erica (33:50):
Get out of there.

Maegan (33:51):
make a drastic change.
Like I'm all for drastic changeswhen your life can support the
weight of your drastic change.
So if that's you, awesome.
I'm excited for you.
But most of us don't fall intothat category, right?
Most of us like really

Erica (34:07):
of us got to do the micro changes.

Maegan (34:09):
of us have to do the microchanges.
I've had to do the microchanges.
You're, you know, you're two

Erica (34:14):
too, girl.

Maegan (34:14):
doing the microchanges.
Microchanges are beautiful.
And this is where you really getto start playing with your life
and with your work, you know,and asking yourself.
So let's use preoccupation as,as, you know, a word.
Let's workshop preoccupation, ifwe can.
So you're like, I'm preoccupied.
Okay, so let's think about this.
Like, what are you preoccupiedwith?

(34:36):
And where can we remove stimulusor expectations from your plate?
Again, I don't want you to buyanything.
I don't want you to add anythingonto your plate.
So what, let's, let's talk tothe you of 18 months ago, two
years ago, right?
Like, what was maybe like onesmall thing you could remove

(34:57):
from your plate that was reallyfeeding your preoccupation?

Erica (35:01):
I'll tell you one.
I mean, it's little, but it wasa big impact for me and it was
taking.
My slack and my work email offmy phone.

Maegan (35:10):
is such a brilliant place to start.
That is such a good place tostart.

Erica (35:15):
that was hard as hell,

Maegan (35:17):
So hard.

Erica (35:18):
it's mind boggling to me how hard that is and what a
mental fricking mind fuck it isto take that off your phone.
And I added it and removed itand added it back and removed it
27 times y'all.
But that really made the biggestshift for me when it came to not
being so preoccupied with work.

Maegan (35:40):
Such a brilliant example, and I have full body
chills because it is so hard.
Like our addiction to beingconstantly available is intense.
It is intense.
And I do the same thing.
I go through phases where like Idelete my email app off my phone
and then I'll like add it back,but only for a minute and then
I'll delete it again.
I do the same thing withInstagram where I'm like, get it
off my phone and then I'll addit back for like 15 minutes and

(36:02):
be like, what am I doing here?
This is terrible.
I'll delete it.
So like we get to be imperfectin this process.

Erica (36:08):
Okay, I have to share another tip though that I
haven't done yet.
I just learned it yesterday fromsomeone else and I'm going to do
it.
I'm a little scared, but I'malso going to do it.
And that is changing thesettings on your phone to gray
scale so that everything isblack and white because you're
not so stimulated by all of thegraphics on Instagram and

(36:30):
LinkedIn and social media.
And so I was like, Oh my God,that's brilliant.
So I'm going to try it.
Okay.
But I am a little scared becauseI love my Instagram, y'all.

Maegan (36:39):
Right.
It's big.
So, this is such a great, um,example of like meeting yourself
with grace, right?
Meet yourself with grace.
It's like, okay, this is scary.
Let me just try it as anexperiment.
I'm going to change it tograyscale.
It'll take literally 2.
5 seconds to change it back.
You know, like we're not makinglife altering commitments here.

(37:01):
We're just trying littleexperiments to see like, well,
how does my nervous systemrespond?
If I change my phone tograyscale, how does my nervous
system respond?
If I take Instagram off my phonefor the weekend, Right.
How does my nervous systemrespond if I take slack off my
phone and only look at it whenI'm on my laptop, right?
We're just, we're starting tonotice, you're gathering data

(37:23):
about like, where has my bodybeen conditioned to be on, to be
responding, to be perfect all ofthe time.
And what happens in my body whenI step away?
from some of those obligationsand expectations.
And you are going to start tolearn about your own system.
And then you get to start makingmore and more personalized

(37:43):
decisions about where yourenergy is going and what your
boundaries are, because like myboundaries aren't going to be
the same as your boundaries.
So there's no checklist of like10 things, 10 boundaries to set.
So you feel less burned out.
No, it doesn't exist.
My values are different thanyour values.
Right?
My desires in life are differentthan your desires in life.

(38:04):
My boundaries with my phone aredifferent than your boundaries
with your phone.
So when you are working on yourown relationship with burnout,
you have to give up on thefantasy of there being a quick
fix, of there being an easysolution, of there being some
like pre printed roadmap you canfollow that's going to work for
you.
No.

Erica (38:25):
That's all we all want.

Maegan (38:25):
true.
I know, I want it too! Like, tobe clear, I want it too.
But that, okay, coming back tothe toxic system of capitalism,
those are beliefs that weinternalize because we operate
inside of capitalism, right?
Capitalism says everythingshould be easy.
Everything should be fast.
Progress should be quick.
There's a, you know, you can payfor any solution you want to

(38:46):
find, right?
That kind of, that fast, fast,fast.
Easy, easy, easy.
That's not real.
That's not real.
And part of like the sinkingdown back into the earth, into
your body, into the land, right?
This is all part of thedeconditioning process.
You are deconditioning fromcapitalism.

(39:09):
And as you slow down and sinkinto yourself, you start to see
that a garden doesn't growovernight.
Right?
A garden takes an entire year.
It takes four complete seasonsfor the garden to do what it
needs to do to create freshtomatoes in the summertime.
Right?
You can't say to the gardenlike, okay, done with tomatoes.

(39:29):
Green beans.
Now.
Go.
You have 30 seconds.
Figure it out.

Erica (39:32):
sweet numbers.

Maegan (39:33):
me some cucumbers.
No.
And you are a garden.
Your body is a garden.
Your life is a garden.
So anything that you're askingyourself to do, or you're
expecting yourself to do, thatis like instantaneous, or easy,
or simple, you gotta step faraway from that, because you're
literally asking your body to dosomething she is not designed to
do.

(39:54):
And that's what I call anabusive relationship.

Erica (39:57):
I think that's such a great reminder because it's like
our conscious mind knows thatthese things take time.
But unconsciously, we're like,Oh, great.
Let me fix, like, it should beeasy peasy lemon squeezy to fix.
And it's not so like, keep thatas a reminder, but let's talk
about also like how, go back tohow can we do more generation of

(40:22):
the non monetary revenue?
Right.
Because that is like thecatalyst, the turning point.
That is what we, I want to focuson in this new era of my life.
So tell me more about that.

Maegan (40:33):
Okay.
Non monetary revenue.
Okay, real quick, before that, Iwant to give you two more quick
burnout recovery tips that Ithink are vital and no one's
talking about them.
Uh,

Erica (40:43):
hear

Maegan (40:44):
just one is joy, right?
Joy is the medicine for allthings.
So if you're really strugglingwith burnout, what that means to
me, what that says to me is thatyou have very little joy.
You have very little pleasure inyour life.
Pleasure can be non sexual.
It can be sexual.
It's all of it.
So if you're burnt out, one ofthe easiest things.

(41:05):
That you can do today is tosearch for joy, to search for
pleasure and see, can you bringa little bit more joy, a little
bit more pleasure into yourbody?
The more you do in simple ways,it can take 30 seconds, right?
The more you do that, the moreyou're reorganizing your system
and the easier it's going to beto do some of this deeper,
heavier work that we're talkingabout.

(41:27):
So find joy, find pleasure.
And the last thing I'll sayabout burnout for today, let
yourself be yourself.
Self expression, burnout.
Is an antidote to burnout.
Right.
When we're burnt out, just likeyou were saying we're burnt out
because we've gotten so far awayfrom our values, from our
desires, from who we really are.

(41:47):
We're pretending to be somebodyelse.
I've never met a person who'sburnt out.
Who's not pretending to besomebody else.
So the more you can reallyclarify, like, wait, who am I?
Who was I when I was 13 yearsold, when I was seven, when I
was four?
And can I bring some of thoseparts of me back into the world
again?
Right?
Let your freak flag fly.

(42:08):
Right?
The more yourself you can be inthe world, I guarantee you the
less you're going to strugglewith burnout.
So just planting those seeds inthe garden, um, the garden of
the mind, and you can see ifthey

Erica (42:20):
of the mind before you.
I mean, I want to get to thesenon monetary revenue things, but
I have to share this joy tipthat this comes from my friend,
Jessica Janssen.
She talks all about joy, but alot of time we're like, but I
don't have joy in my life orthere is no joy.
She does a monthly.
post on Instagram and you can doit monthly, weekly, whatever

(42:43):
works for you.
But she just calls them likeit's November now.
So her November joy starters,and she goes back to the
previous month and she looksthrough her phone because we all
take pictures of fabulous thingson our phone.
And she worked through thosemoments.
So like when she posted herNovember joy starters, she had
like her kids in their Halloweencostumes and volunteering and

(43:04):
speaking on stages.
And for her, and she's had likea really tragic thing in her
life happened.
She lost one of her Children,and so you can imagine if anyone
is struggling with joy, it wouldbe her.
But she looked back for thesejoy starters as evidence that
life still have beautifulmoments.

(43:25):
And so if you're struggling tofind that joy, Yes, grab your
phone right

Maegan (43:30):
finger roll.
Uh.

Erica (43:32):
through your camera row to font to remember that you
have those joy starters But Ilove the let yourself be
yourself I feel like that's anarea where I really struggled
because you know You talkedabout who are you pretending to
be y'all?
I was always pretending to haveall my shit together all the
time and I did not and that iswhat led me to the burnout, but
Back to you, Megan Meganson.

(43:53):
I

Maegan (43:54):
Yeah, no, thank you.
Your examples are so helpful.
What a beautiful invitation,right?
Like it proof, proof to yourselfthat joy is there.
I'm also gonna say, because I'llnever not be a sex therapist at
heart, that what I, one of thethings I learned as a sex
therapist is, is the power ofpleasure and how pleasure and
joy are so interconnected andhow so many women, especially

(44:16):
those of us who are ambitious,busy, trying to do it all.
One thing that we do to, tooperate.
Uh, quote efficiently in theworld is we cut off connection
to our bodies from the neckdown, right?
Because what's happening oftenfrom the neck down are signals
that say, slow down, don't do somuch, think twice about this.
And that gets in our way.

(44:37):
So we shut down, literally, weshut down our ability to have
sensation in the body as a sextherapist.
I'll just throw this out there.
I saw hundreds and hundreds ofwomen who came in with low
sexual desire.
And almost all of them had lowsexual desire because they were
trying to do so much externallyin the world that they had to

(44:57):
cut off sensation below the neckin order to get it done.
So when we start to bringsensation back into our body,
I'm picking up my cup of coffeeright now as an example.
And when I say like, okay, I'mgoing to let myself feel the
warmth of this mug in my hand.
Right now, I'm going to smellthe aroma of a coffee and I'm

(45:21):
going to feel the pleasure ofthat.
Then I'm going to take a sip andI'm going to taste the coffee on
my tongue.
And I allow myself to really bephysically present with the
pleasure of sensation, joy.
You did it.
You did it.
And who doesn't have a cup ofcoffee in the morning, right?
Or a little snack in theafternoon.
Food is a group.
Things you put in your mouth aregreat ways to reconnect yourself

(45:44):
to joy.
Enjoy.
Right?
Sip it.
Oh, it just like, enjoy it.
Like let it wash over you.
Let the pleasure wash over you.
Bam.
You've just given yourself alittle dose of joy medicine.
Pick up your phone, go throughyour camera roll, look at how
many beautiful photos that youtook and then move on with your
day and do it again tomorrow.

(46:04):
Over time, you will reprogramthe way you operate in the
world.
It takes time, it's a little bitat a time.
You can do it.
I just like, I so believe we allhave the capacity to change the
way we relate to joy andpleasure in our bodies.
Okay.
You want to talk about nonmonetary revenue?
One of my favorite topics?

(46:25):
I have a lot of favorites.
I have a lot of favorite topics,Erica, if you can't tell.
I have a lot of favorite

Erica (46:29):
like, look, I don't, I normally try to keep these
podcasts episodes 30 minutes,but we are like talking about
all some amazing shit

Maegan (46:36):
Great.
Yeah.

Erica (46:37):
long one.

Maegan (46:38):
Sorry.
I often say

Erica (46:39):
work on the block

Maegan (46:41):
is not my gift.
Brevity is we're not, we're noteven related.
Uh, we've never met.
Uh, okay.
Non monetary revenue.
So this is more applicable.
I'm going to say this forbusiness owners than, than
people who, you know, have jobsfor big corporations.
But I think that there are somecreative ways that we, we can

(47:01):
apply this, you know, across,across cultures, if you will.
Um, I believe as a businessowner that I went into this for
myself.
And I believe that's true formost business owners, right?
That we go into businessownership and to
entrepreneurship because we wantmore freedom and flexibility.

(47:25):
We want to be our own bosses.
We want something.
And then we go into business forourself and we quickly become
like the worst bosses we've everhad.
And all of a sudden it's likewe're working for our businesses
and our businesses aren'tactually serving us in any real
or meaningful way.
So one of the first thing,things I do with my clients is

(47:46):
to take a couple of deep breathsand to say, your business is for
you first and foremost.
It's not for your clients.
It's for you, your clients andyour community.
They get to be beneficiaries ofthe business that you're
creating, but your businessneeds to pay you and all of the
things that you want in yourlife.

(48:09):
So when we go back to thequestion from earlier about
values, about desires, right?
About like, what is it that Ireally want in my life?
You didn't say.
A shit ton of cash.
You said time with my kids.
Yes, totally.
Exactly.
Exactly.
We like it.
Money's not the enemy here.

(48:30):
Money.
We need money.
We do live in a capitalisticsociety, right?
Whether we like it or not, we'replaying on this playground, but
we get to make our own games.
Right.
And we get to make our own ruleson this playground.
So money is important.
Absolutely.
We need money to survive.
We don't need to shy away fromthat.
Our business needs to createrevenue, revenue in the form of

(48:51):
cash in the bank.
But the problem in my opinion isthat because we live in
capitalism, we've been taughtthat the only kind of revenue
that matters is cash in thebank.
So I like to zoom out and say,Well, what other kind of revenue
can my business generate for me?
It often has to do with time,right?

(49:12):
I want my business to generatetime.
For me to pick my kids up fromschool.
I want my business to generatecreative freedom so that I can
write that novel.
I've been dreaming about, I wantmy business to support me and,
and giving me time in the middleof the day to go work out with a
trainer, right.

(49:32):
Or to go to couples therapy.
I want time to read a book,right?
We can brainstorm this forever,but it's like non monetary
revenue, right?
This is, can I start thinkingabout what I desire most in my
life and then reverse engineerto say, how can my business pay
me in that?
How can time with my kids be acurrency just as much as the U.

(49:55):
S.
dollar is a currency?
What do you think about thatidea?
Sure.

Erica (50:00):
mean, I love it.
One of the exercises that I wasreally, and still am kind of
working on is, Not alwaysthinking that it has to be about
the money, right?
Because I left a very lucrative,stupid cash money paying job to
being my own boss, right?

(50:20):
And it's a scary thing to do,but I was walking with a friend
and we were talking about it andI've known this for years, but
it's like, we have to really getit deeply ingrained into our
systems that like, I don't needthat much money to be happy.
I don't need that much money Todo anything that I want to do.
Like, of course money is great.
And like that money has allowedme the freedom to have what I

(50:44):
call fuck you money, which isquit your job and leave.
So it absolutely serves apurpose, but really getting real
with yourself about what do youactually need?
Like you don't need to go get amanicure every week, right?
And actually that's just addingmore shit to do on your to do
list of things you got to getdone.
So.
Really taking a minute andestablishing, like, what do I

(51:06):
need versus what is societytelling me I need, you know,
what is that message of like,cause initially when I quit, I'm
like, okay, I've got to make Xamount of dollars to replace my
corporate income.
And it's like, but I don't haveto replace my corporate income.
Why am I so worried about that?
You know?

(51:26):
And it's, it's getting real withme in that sense.
And so again, since I've onlybeen out for a month, it's
really, I keep reminding myselfof all of that,

Maegan (51:36):
This is good.
This is good.
Like, write it down, put it onthe mirror, because it fades
over time.
And I think the clearer you canget about this at the beginning,
the easier it is to circle backto it.
When you're, you know, you're inthe mud, you're in the, you
know, you're in the weeds ofgrowing your business.
There's a quote I love by aphilosopher named Alan Watts.

(51:57):
And he said, as a society, we'veconfused money with wealth.

Erica (52:03):
Mm hmm.

Maegan (52:05):
And I think that, I'm gonna just say it again, we've
confused money with wealth.
And this is what I wanteverybody to stop and pause and
think about.
We've confused money withwealth.
Because this society has trainedus to believe that to be wealthy
is to be financially rich.

(52:25):
Which creates a whole lot ofpeople, like you're saying, with
more money than they actuallyneed.
Because true wealth isn't abouthow much money you have in the
bank.
True wealth is about how alignedyou are.
Am I with myself, right?
True wealth is like, I haveenough money to pay the bills.
We're totally secure.
We're living a comfortable life.

(52:47):
And I also get to pick my kidsup from school and I also get to
explore my creative projects.
And I also get to invest in myown healing work.
And I also get to do this and Ialso get to do that.
Insert whatever your values are,whatever is important to you.
Like that's wealth.
When people are on theirdeathbed in hospice, they never
ever talk about how much moneythey had in the bank.

Erica (53:09):
Nope.

Maegan (53:11):
Now it's, again, it matters.
There's some research aboutthis.
I can't quote it off the top ofmy head.
I'm not that kind of person, butthere's some really great
research about like thethreshold, the point at which
more money actually causes moreproblems in someone's life.

Erica (53:26):
It's so funny that you bring that up because I'm just
sitting here and I'm like, butthink about all the really
wealthy, really stupid peopleout there, right?
And my brain automatically wentto, and I'm not speaking ill of
the dead here, people, but like,why would you go down in a tin
can all the way to the Titanicsubmarine and pay a couple mil
to do it?

Maegan (53:45):
Right.

Erica (53:47):
You're bored.
You're not finding those nonmonetary revenue things that
you're talking about, likehappiness, right?
Like, those people, they haveall the time, the freedom, and
the flexibility in the world,but they're not happy.
And so you've gotta have thatgreat blend of all of that non
monetary revenue.

Maegan (54:04):
you, yes, I hope so.
And that, and again, everyone'sblend is going to look
different, right?
So we can't compare ourselves toeach other because what I need
to be in alignment with myself,my values and my desires is
going to look totally differentthan yours.
Thanks.
But we start with the question,where am I out of alignment?

(54:25):
And when I think about peoplewho work for corporations,
obviously you have less controlover the expectations for your
job, less control than you and Ido as business owners, right?
We have a lot of control.
We have a lot of flexibility,but that doesn't mean you
shouldn't ask yourself theseexact same questions.
Just like you're saying so many,actually, let me give you a

(54:47):
quick side story.
The past, the last couple ofyears.
In my role as a couples and sextherapist, I was working with
highly successful people, right?
Top, top of the, top of theladder, these people, surgeons,
lawyers, politicians, whatever,corporate executives.
And what I found in my career asa couples therapist is that as

(55:11):
my fee went up as a therapistand the SES of my clientele went
up proportionally, I found thatpeople got more and more and
more and more miserable.

Erica (55:21):
Mm.
Mm

Maegan (55:22):
And that they had to work harder and harder and
harder to hide it.
Because, on the outside, theywere supposed to have it all
together, right?
So, and I was just like,Something's wrong here.
Like, what is happening?
Like, this is wild.
And it was really myintroduction to capitalism,
really.
Of being like, wow, look atthis.

(55:44):
There is a point at which thesuper rich are so
dysfunctionally miserable andthey feel like they have to hide
the truth of that from everybodyin their lives because they
should be happy.
They've reached the top of theladder, they're rich, you know,
they're checking all the boxes.
So I do feel like that's thegolden handcuff trap that so

(56:06):
many people in corporate jobsfind themselves in.
I mean, just like you saidearlier, you're making great
money, you have great benefits,but what's the cost?
What is the cost of all of thatmoney that you're making?
That's what you have to askyourself, right?
The cost is your monster mom inthe mornings trying to get your
kids to school, right?

(56:26):
The cost is you're missing outon healing yourself, on
exploring your own personalgrowth because you don't have
time, you don't have bandwidth.
The cost is you're gonna getdivorced.
Because you and your partnerhave had no time to nurture your
relationship.
And then you can think evenbroader than that if you want
to.
Like, what's the cost of thework that this corporation is

(56:48):
doing on the planet?
Right?
We can, we can keep going.

Erica (56:51):
could go, we could go for hours

Maegan (56:53):
we can go for hours and, and go as deep as you can go
without flooding your nervoussystem.
But get really honest withyourself.
What is the cost?
Because it's only when you getclear about the cost, That you
can really get honest withyourself about what you need to
live a truly wealthy life.
And that's what I want foreverybody.
I want us all to live thewealthiest lives.

(57:16):
And isn't it funny that thatmeans we all have less money in
the bank than we thought weshould ten

Erica (57:21):
you know what it is?
It is.
It's hysterical, but this is thetruth.
And it's like, is if we can justcome to grips with that reality,
we will be happier than ever.
Megan, if somebody wants to workwith you because you're amazing
and they're like, holy shit, I'mburnt out.
I'm all these things.
Where can they find you?
How can they get in touch withyou?

Maegan (57:41):
Thank you so much for asking.
You are amazing.
This conversation was so muchfun and so important.
So thank you for having me.
Um, and yeah, if you want tolearn about me and my work, you
can find me at deeplyrested.
com.
I would love for you to join mynewsletter.
You can sign up at deeplyrested.
com slash newsletter and sinceyou're obviously a podcast

(58:02):
listener, you can hop over andlisten to my podcast

Erica (58:06):
Well, yeah,

Maegan (58:07):
com slash podcast.

Erica (58:09):
I love it.
And then Megan, I got to ask youthis one last question.
It's my favorite to askeverybody.
If you could go back in time tothe Megan with the burnt out
husband, who's all in on thecouple therapy, you know, just
getting started, what piece ofadvice would you give that Megan
today?
Let's do it.

Maegan (58:28):
like most things you've asked me I'm gonna give you a
sideways answer Something I'velearned on my own journey my own
healing journey, professionaljourney, is that there's no such
thing as a mistake.
Like the very idea of mistakesis an illusion.
Every single thing that happensin your life is perfect.

(58:51):
There is, I believe, that thereis a divine timing to every
single thing that happens.
And that every single mistake orchallenge that you face, it's an
important part of your processthat's getting you to where
you're meant to go.
And the more I have embracedthis idea that there's no such
thing as mistakes, the more Ican look back at my past and

(59:13):
say, Megan, you have doneeverything absolutely perfect.
And there's nothing that youneed to do different.
And you met yourself exactly asyou were able to meet yourself
in the moment.
And I'm so proud of you.
And keep making decisions.
That confuse you or feel wrongor make you doubt yourself, keep

(59:33):
doing that because they're allgetting you to where you need to
go.
So if I could go back in timeand look my younger self in the
eye, I think that's what Iwould, I would just say you're
doing an absolutely brilliantjob and there's nothing you need
to fix and there are no problemsyou need to solve.
Like relax, you're doing great.

Erica (59:53):
Well, that's great advice.
And I think it's advice that weall need to hear.
So I'm glad you shared that withus.
But thank you, Megan.
This was an amazing, amazingpodcast.
I hope everyone listening reallyenjoyed it.
I know it's longer than ourusuals, but y'all I'm not
cutting anything out of thisepisode is too good.
So Megan, thank you.
All right.
Y'all didn't I tell you thatthat was going to be a

(01:00:13):
conversation that was justfilled with aha moments.
So, if you're feeling inspiredto redefine what wealth and
success mean to you, or maybeyou just needed a roadmap to
step off the hamster wheel.
Megan's got you covered.
Go ahead and head to herwebsite, check it out.
It's deeply rested.com andconnect with her.
Join up on her newsletter, orjust dive into more

(01:00:34):
conversations like this.
On her podcast.
And don't forget.
You are enough just as you areburnout does not stand a chance
when you are living inalignment.
All right.
Y'all.
If you enjoyed this podcast,please make sure that you rate
review and subscribe to the showas it truly helps it land in the

(01:00:55):
hands of the woman that needs tohear it most.
And until next time, rememberthis, the only limit is the one
you set.
So let's break through themtogether.