January 22, 2025 • 36 mins
In this powerful episode, I sit down with Dr. Emily Williams Knight, the President and CEO of the Texas Restaurant Association and Foundation, to talk about what it really takes to lead through crisis, build influence in male-dominated industries, and create opportunities for others to rise.
With over 20 years of global leadership experience, Emily played a pivotal role in saving thousands of restaurants during the COVID-19 pandemic. She shares her personal journey from dreaming of a career in hospitality as a third grader to navigating one of the most challenging leadership moments of our time.
Tune in to hear:
- How Emily led through the chaos of the pandemic and fought for the restaurant industry
- Why influence isn’t about fitting in—but about being the expert at the table
- The key mindset shift that helped her step into leadership with confidence
- Why women need to stop striving for "balance" and embrace blending work and life instead
- The biggest lesson she’d tell her younger self about leadership, resilience, and self-care
Emily’s story is one of grit, heart, and impact. If you’re ready to lead with confidence and step into your full potential, this episode is a must-listen!
🎧 Listen now and tag us with your biggest takeaways!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (00:00):
Today I'm sitting down with a true
(00:01):
powerhouse in leadership andadvocacy, and that is Dr.
Emily Williams Knight.
As the president and CEO of theTexas Restaurant Association and
Foundation, Emily is anationally recognized leader who
played a pivotal role in savingthousands of restaurants during
the COVID 19 pandemic.
With over 20 years of globalexperience, she is a champion
(00:24):
for legislative success.
workforce development andcreating opportunities for
Texans to build thriving careersin the food service industry.
Now, Emily's story is a specialone.
It is one of vision of grit andof impact.
And today she is here to shareher insights on leading through
crisis, building influence, andpaving the way for more women to
(00:48):
rise in leadership.
Well, welcome to the glassceiling and sticky floor
podcast.
The show that is here to empoweryou to break free from limiting
beliefs, ditch toxic behaviors,and unlock the infinite
possibilities waiting for you.
This is your time to live yourbest life unapologetically I'm
Erica Rooney, your host andbiggest cheerleader on a mission
(01:09):
to get more women into positionsof power and keep them there
where they belong.
If you're ready to shatterceilings, crush self-doubt and
build a career in lifeoverflowing.
With growth and abundance.
You're in the right place.
Here's the deal.
We talk about the real stuffhere.
Imposter syndrome,perfectionism, fear, burnout,
you name it.
(01:30):
It's raw.
It's honest.
And it's exactly what you needto level up.
So grab a seat, pop in a nearby.
And let's dive in.
erica_1_01-08-2025_12073 (01:39):
Emily, welcome to podcast.
I am so thrilled you're here.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2025 (01:45):
I am so thrilled and really
grateful to be here.
Thank you so much.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (01:49):
Well, let's dive in because I am so
intrigued by you and everythingyou do, but tell me more, like,
what do we not know about you?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (02:00):
Um, so it's funny.
I get asked that sometimes.
I think recently someone said,you're like an enigma, like
you're cool, but you shouldn'tbe like, and I'm like, I'm not
sure if I should be offended bythat or not.
Um, but I think, you know, Ithink when you think of me,
right, you typically see me inthe world I exist in today,
which is I'll stand up in frontof thousands of people and
speak, or I'll, you know, go tothe Capitol and fight for
(02:21):
policy.
I think, but I always try toremind people like that I came
from the same place that.
Everyone else has.
And so for me, I think, youknow, I decided to be in the
world of hospitality when I wasin the third grade.
And I'm sure some of thelisteners will remember a show
called hotel with Connie Selicaand James Brolin.
And I was at a military family.
(02:42):
So everything was the same.
Everyone's car was the same.
We lived in the same Navyhousing.
Everything was just the same.
We brought the same coats at theflea market.
And there was one night a weekwhere I could watch the show and
it just imagined this glamorouslifestyle.
Um, and so in the third grade, Imarched into my parents and it
was my mom.
And I said, you know, I'm goingto work in hotels one day.
I'm going to be in thehospitality industry.
(03:02):
And thankfully, I don't eventhink she knew what it was.
And she's like, that soundsgreat, Emily.
Um, and then, you know, throughmy, I try to tell people to
like, through my schooling, Iwasn't a great student.
Like in high school, I, theytold me I should, told my
parents I should go to beautyschool.
Like I was an athlete.
I didn't even brush my hair.
Right.
Like.
And not that there's anythingwrong with that, but it was this
idea that like, I was toooutgoing and concerned about
(03:25):
everyone else and talk too muchand all those things that now
result in my career.
And so I like to remind peoplethat like, it doesn't matter
where you are in your life.
Like for me.
I was someone that, you know, I,this was never on the radar,
right.
To be a CEO, that was never thedream.
And so sort of how you just keepgoing and it gets you to where
you want to be.
But, but I'm just like everyoneelse.
(03:45):
I think that's what I wantpeople to know is hard days and
good days and challenging days,and my roots are no different
than anyone else.
It's just some of the decision Imade sort of put me in the spot
I'm in today.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (03:56):
So interesting, right?
I mean, you and I were talkingbefore I hit the record button
and I said, we have got to hearthis backstory because I don't
think any little girl sits downto dream to be the CEO of the
restaurant, like food and Bevand all of that, you know, it's
like, that's usually not on topof the wishlist, but I love this
story that gets us there.
(04:16):
And I'm just thinking back, youknow, to 2020 and the pandemic
and all of the madness of theworld and how much that impacted
you and your role in all ofthis.
all of the things thatimmediately happened.
And I would love for you tofirst kind of like explain what
that was, because I don't thinkpeople think through all of the
(04:37):
things that happened with therestaurant industry during that
time.
So take it away.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (04:43):
my gosh.
I think for so many of us, wesometimes almost have a hard
time going back because as theworld, not only the U.
S., but the world was sort ofgrieving and wondering and what
was happening and trying todiscern the news.
We were in a let's save livesand save businesses.
And to us, that charge is stillthe greatest I'm gift I was ever
(05:05):
given.
And so I sort of, you know, Itell how I arrived to the
moment.
I was a brand new CEO.
I had not met the governor and Ihad not met an elected official
when I got the call saying, Ithink we're going to shut
everything down from thegovernor's chief of staff.
So for me, I was up inWashington, D.
C.
Being kind of onboarded.
(05:25):
I was sitting with Senator Cruzin a meeting.
Mhm.
I was there for about 40minutes.
That's an important number in asecond.
And then I transitioned tomeeting with Congressman
Crenshaw.
And he said, I'm sorry, it'sgreat to meet you, but I have to
leave.
The bells were going off in theCapitol.
We have our first coronavirusvote.
It wasn't even called COVID.
I'm like, okay, that's kind oflike a New York problem.
(05:47):
You know, I'm going back toTexas, fly home, land, get a
call from the senators.
Cruz's chief of staff in themorning saying, listen, the
Senator has quarantined.
You were with him for a greatdeal of time.
You might want to quarantinetoo.
And I was like, what?
I'm going to get likecoronavirus from Senator Cruz?
Like, what is this?
And so I stayed home for threedays out of, you know, respect
(06:08):
and not knowing what washappening.
And then my family said, Hey,listen, we're going to Cabo on
vacation and all you've done iswork for six months.
And so aren't you going to come?
And I fly to Cabo and within twodays, the governor's chief of
staff calls and says, listen,we're going to shut it down.
But if we work together andwe're honest with each other, we
don't go to the press.
We're not negative.
(06:28):
And we get through this.
We can do this.
And I'll never forget thosewords because that decision that
day to partner and not beadversary, I think was a game
changer.
And for me, It was the moment Ineeded maybe my whole life,
which was to lead through acrisis like I captured all the
animals when I was little thatneeded a home.
(06:50):
I looked for the kid that didn'thave a friend at lunch, like my
natural love of helping andfighting for people who don't
have a voice.
It was like God just gave methis platform that I didn't ask
for.
I didn't even know it wascoming.
And so from that moment, yeah,Which the morning after in
Texas, just to give you thescope, we had about 50,000
(07:12):
restaurants employing about 1.2million Texans, and within 24
hours, less than 30% of themcould generate a penny.
And I had 800,000 working peopleon the sidelines without a job.
And so you talk about fight orflight, I had two choices.
Hide or lead.
(07:32):
And I chose to lead in thatmoment.
I wish people could understandit's so much finger pointing
today, whatever playbook youhad, it didn't matter.
Right?
I mean, you were literallybalancing the economy and lives
and that that is such a big jobthat it was only about three
months in that I finally criedand I cried so hard, I couldn't
(07:54):
breathe.
And it was the enormity of.
How do you prioritize businessesover human lives?
How do you balance both?
How do you live in a world whereno matter what you decide,
people like you or they don'tmask, don't mask vaccine, don't
mask.
So the hate mail coming at me ona daily basis on my team was
extraordinary, but you just,there was something inside me
(08:16):
that said, You're going to carrythese people through and you're
going to work day and night,Emily.
This is what you've been calledto do.
And my goal was to not letanyone fail.
And I had the most amazing teamthat believed the same thing.
And so for me, it's the greatestmoment of my career.
And I always get asked, youwould never do that again, would
you?
And I would do it again.
(08:37):
100 times over.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (08:39):
Oh my gosh.
I am so grateful that you kindof outlined a bit of that
because just those numbersreally
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (08:46):
Oh,
erica_1_01-08-2025_1207 (08:47):
Express the devastation, right?
And I was an extra peopleofficer.
So I dealt with a lot of that ona smaller scale.
And it's so interesting becauseyou are, you're trying to
balance the health ofbusinesses, but also people's
lives.
And you have this whole questionof like, what's the ethical
thing to do?
What's the right thing to do?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (09:06):
Yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (09:07):
I mean, my
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (09:08):
And what information?
Yeah.
And what information are youusing?
Right?
What information are yougetting?
And sometimes we would getinformation that the public
didn't have.
So we're making decisions and itmay not
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (09:19):
make sense to the outside world.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01- (09:22):
Correct.
And your one issue is part of amuch bigger ecosystem, but I'll
tell you something that I'vecarried with me today, which I
didn't know who was a Republicanand who was a Democrat.
I was brand new.
And so in a state, I maybestepped in it a lot of times in
the normal operating environmentof work, because I would go to
someone who necessarily wouldn'twant to help or, you know, when
(09:45):
you don't know people'spolitical affiliation, you get
more done because you justdemand excellence and help for
your constituents.
And so to me, I think the reasonthat Texas is really known as
one of the leaders out of thepandemic, um, we were one of the
first to open.
We suffered very few losses.
Um, the losses we suffered areclearly.
Catastrophic, right?
(10:06):
If you've lost your business.
Um, but considering what therunway looked like to what we
got today, it was verydifferent.
And I think a big part of thatwas this unified approach that
we took, which is everyoneshould care about businesses and
everyone should care aboutrestaurants.
And that was the best gift Ihad, which I didn't have.
I didn't owe anyone anything.
(10:26):
They didn't owe me anything.
And I was just this womanfighting for these people that
had no voice.
Like, how do you work in thelegislative process?
If you're a single restaurantowner in El Paso, Texas, you
need a trade association.
Um, and so I think that was, Ialways say it was an honor.
It was like an honor to be, tosee my whole life and all the
gifts I was given come to lifein a moment where I could put
(10:48):
them to best use.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (10:50):
So you talked about you had two
choices.
You could either lead or youcould hide.
And obviously you chose to lead.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (10:58):
Yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (10:59):
But I can imagine that there had to
have been moments where you justwanted to bury your head in the
sand.
Maybe moments where you felttotally stuck or helpless.
You know, talk to me about howyou moved through that and what
could other women learn fromthat experience.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (11:16):
Yeah, that's such a good question.
You know, I think, I think youhave a choice to make every day
when you wake up.
And I think that the outsideenvironment teaches us that
where we are has been done to usin some way, right?
Wherever we sit today, that, andthat I don't use the word victim
because I don't think women playvictim.
I think the road that women areon is so complicated and has so
(11:40):
many barriers in it that for me,I think I think when I decide,
what I've decided is that at theend of the day, the only thing
that matters really is how Iview myself, right?
Like, like learning to beunliked is one of the best gifts
you can give yourself.
(12:00):
And that happened for me in my30s.
I wish it had happened in my20s, but realizing that there
were people that didn't like meand wouldn't like me, and I
needed to be okay with that.
I think that's number one,right?
Which was, and that translatesto my personal life or my
professional life.
And that is so hard because whenpeople don't like us or don't
(12:21):
like our decisions, wepersonalize it as women.
And then what that does is itparalyzes us and then we don't
move.
So for me, I accepted that nomatter what I did, there would
be an opposing force and, and Iwas going to, as I say, um, I
had a board member and this is,I think, a great little analogy
that said to me, I called him atone moment because we also had
(12:42):
the George Floyd incident andreally murder happened during
this period.
So that just layered acomplexity for us.
And I had a, a, a run in with aboard member that I thought was
very unfair and I was in one ofthose poor me moments and I
called this board member and hesaid, when you walk up to the
plate and you're ready to swinga home run, if you listen to the
(13:02):
people in the cheap seats, Thatare telling you which way to bat
and which way to hit, you're notgoing to have focus and you're
not going to hit a home run,ignore the cheap seats.
And so I had this vision in mymind of stepping up to the plate
and making a big decision andhaving people calling at me in
the, in the stands and realizingthat I needed to cut that noise
out.
So I think one is, is stayingtrue to who you are and then not
(13:25):
being afraid to make a decisionor, or take your career in a way
that people don't support.
They don't matter.
Right.
So that is one.
I think two is, is I feelinternally better when I'm in
charge.
Right.
I just,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (13:42):
I mean, me too.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (13:44):
yeah, I mean, and I like, I don't even
think it's like a type a thing.
It's just, I, I, I sort of everyday do a little bit of self
talk.
Like, like Emily, you can dothat.
Right.
Like Emily, you've got this,like, it is a little of how you
talk to yourself is how you.
Behave, right?
And, and so surrounding yourselfwith people that also encourage
(14:04):
you when you say, I want to takethis promotion or for Emily, I
want to lead this.
We're going to do this.
Well, I do.
Or should you really, I mean,you could just be at home.
Like, you don't really need todo that, right?
Like you have to get the earsout of your life and surround
yourself with tiggers.
And I think for me, I had a, agreat team and I had an
incredible family and youngdaughters.
That were like, mom, go, becauseI sat in the office.
(14:25):
You're looking at me and rightnow for a year and I didn't
leave.
Right.
And so I had that environmentthat wanted me to win.
I think for a lot of women, wesometimes surround ourselves
with people that want us to bewhere we are today because it's
comfortable for them.
And we relate.
And yet you need to have peoplearound you.
They're like, you can do more.
You have more capability.
(14:45):
I know you can do it.
Um, that surrounding voice canbe so powerful in your life.
Um, and so finding those peoplethat are true to making you out
and helping you be who you weremade to be.
I think that's been a huge pieceof of what helps me lead.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (15:02):
I'm a huge believer in community and
I, I really believe insurrounding yourself with people
who are better than you, right?
Like people who know more thanyou, who are smarter than you,
who have done it.
And there's that old sayingthat, you know, if you're the
smartest person in the room,you're in the wrong room.
But it's so true because peoplewho are stuck on a smaller
(15:22):
mindset of what is possible, Youknow what?
What is actually what the worldis capable of what you are
capable of?
Like, yeah, you're gonna stayplaying small.
But if you are around people whobelieve in that whole concept of
infinite possibilities and trulythings we have never seen
before, you know, I love tothink of really great innovators
(15:43):
like Steve Jobs.
There used to be a day where wenever imagined an iPod, like the
old school iPod, not your phonethat plays music, but the iPod
in your pocket.
That was once never a thing,right?
Boomboxes were a
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (15:57):
Right.
Yeah.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (15:58):
you have to surround yourself with
these people who just believe inpossibility.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (16:03):
Well, and I think I just funny.
I was, I have a morning routinewhere I watch Squawk Box.
It's like this thing of mine.
And, um, and ironically broughtthis up because they were
looking at Tesla shares andTesla shares were falling
because people weren't buying asmore cars.
And then they did an interviewand Elon said, well, I'm not
thinking about cars.
I'm doing mobile taxis.
(16:23):
And it just, I say that becausewe're all thinking, Ooh, they're
in trouble.
They're not going to sell asmany cars.
And he's already, whether youlike him or not, he's they're
talking about mobile tax.
Like we're like, Oh, what do youthink of mobile?
Right.
And that just, I get thosereminders of like, Emily, don't
think small.
Right.
Like what everyone's thinkingabout, think about if you can
think one step ahead, but yousaid something I think is so
important, which is.
(16:44):
Grit and growth mindset.
And I think that I do a ton oftalks with women about grit and
growth mindset, because it is ahuge piece of my life and that
growth mindset of perceivingthat if I set a goal, I'm going
to just work until I achieve itand not let anything or anyone
stop me.
Um, I talk about grit all thetime because it's the one thing
(17:05):
that can be taught or learned.
It's not in your DNA.
You weren't born with it.
So I feel like it's the onepiece for women that If they
have that right group aroundthem and their mindset is right,
there's nothing we can't do.
It's not that easy, but there'snothing we can't do.
Nothing.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (17:23):
I agree with that.
And, and actually it's a perfectlead into kind of like where my
brain has been ping pongingbecause you also have twin
daughters, correct?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (17:32):
Yes.
Yeah.
Who turned 19
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (17:35):
twin daughters, you have this very
crazy busy career that obviouslycould demand all of you at the
drop of a hat, right?
Like that's the position we'rein.
How did you find, and I'm gonnause this word, you can tell me
if you like it or not, but like,how do you balance it all?
How do you integrate it all?
(17:55):
Right?
There's so many words for thatnowadays.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (17:58):
God, such a good question.
Cause my daughter's just leftfor college.
So I can tell women that you gothrough this very reflective
period in the first six months.
I have found of, did I doenough?
Was I around enough?
Did I miss too many things?
Um, I don't know if it's God wayof protecting you from the feels
that in, for me, mine both leftand exited at the same time.
(18:20):
And so you go from being thismom of the night twins to being
an empty house.
And so, If I'm honest, I haveoverscheduled myself because
that helps you not feel, um, andreally processed how I went
about being a working mom.
And I would say a couple thingsI said, I would use the word
blend.
Um, I tried to balance being amom and at the time of president
(18:44):
of a college and really tried todo what I was taught.
By the world, which was to keepthose two things separate,
right?
That didn't work for me.
Um, it didn't work for a numberof reasons, but what I found is
when I was trying to balance,there were days I was a great
leader and days I was a greatmom, but it wasn't that they
were happening on the same day.
And so I had a lot of guilt.
And so what I decided to do wasto use the word blend.
(19:05):
And I blend the both together.
And what does that mean?
It looks like my daughters wouldcome in on zoom meetings and ask
me for something.
And I would say, excuse me onesecond.
And I would address them.
My teams I have led, watched mygirls grow up and my girls know
the people that I work with on afirst name basis.
And so I decided not to try tohide, but to more have very open
(19:27):
dialogue with them.
Um, I traveled a ton when theywere young, I was in a global
job.
And so I set a rule that I wouldbe gone no more than one week.
So one week was, and I don'teven know why I did it, but I
can tell you there are momentswe have on social media today
where I am racing back fromSydney, Australia through Los
Angeles to Chicago.
(19:48):
And I'm watching the plane onflight aware, and I'm going to
have 46 minutes until I hit mydeadline.
Right.
So I, so I say that because Itmade me feel in control.
So for working moms, if you canset sort of, I'm not going to
miss the big things and I'mgoing to accept that I'm going
to miss the small things thattook the guilt away, I won't
(20:09):
miss a birthday.
I won't miss the first day ofschool.
I won't miss the Christmasholiday.
But I may miss when they dotheir speech at school on, you
know, Johnny Appleseed, but Oh,wow.
Guess what?
I'm in Shanghai and this is areal example and she's doing her
Johnny Appleseed presentationand I'm on FaceTime.
Right?
So I think for a lot of workingmoms, first, you have to believe
(20:31):
that you can have it all.
You just have to decide what allmeans to you.
And I think the world has taughtus that all means that you're
perfectly quaffed as a femaleexecutive and you are, you know,
A mom that has kids in perfectclothing and you don't miss a
beat.
Guess what?
That's not reality.
And so show up normal to takethe pressure off of all the
women behind you.
Show up as someone sometimesthat is not put together, who
(20:53):
did not sleep.
Talk about it.
Cry openly in front of yourteams when you're, Trying to
breastfeed and you're stuck on aflight on the runway for four
hours and what that's like, Iremember that, but, but be real,
be real, like that, that is justbe real to the women behind you
and so they can see that whenthey maybe have kids and
transition back to work.
That is, it is not pretty.
(21:14):
It is not pretty being a femalewho is working with children as
a primary caregiver.
And as you go up that ladder,the expectations to exit the
home are harder and you justhave to be real with your kids
and your work.
Um, and my kids see that, youknow, I had got stuck yesterday
on a call.
My daughter, it was her 19thbirthday.
Her twin sister's gone firsttime apart, and we were supposed
(21:36):
to go shopping.
And I was on a call that endedup an hour and a half long, and
she was really upset.
And I did say at first, do youlike the Disney world I've
created for you?
And then I'm like, that's reallynasty.
Don't do that.
I'm like, and I was like, okay,do you understand what happened?
This is what mom was doing.
She goes, I know, but can wehave a little more time
tomorrow?
I was like, perfect.
So I think, just, I think, Ithink you just have to decide
(21:58):
what all means and it's notperfection or balance.
To me, it's blend and it's beingreal with both, both sides of
the coin, the people you workwith and your kids and your
husband,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:08):
Oh my gosh.
Well, first of all, I love allof that.
So I have a six and a half yearold, you know, I have to include
that
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (22:17):
of course,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:18):
and a half year old, there'll be, you
know, seven and 10.
So I'm in it
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (22:22):
you're in it.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:23):
very, Very much kind of living that
same lifestyle as you.
And before I left corporate, Iwas traveling to India all the
time.
And I was gone for
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (22:29):
Oh my gosh.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:30):
at a time.
It was impossible to do it anyway else,
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (22:34):
Yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:35):
but what I will say, and I'm going
to make this public admissionjust for everybody else.
And then you can tell me if youthink it, but I'm going first
here, all of those things that Imissed, right?
Like just the other day, Imissed the third grade Christmas
concert, right?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (22:50):
Oh, oh yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:51):
All of these things that I have
missed.
I didn't feel that guilty aboutmissing them.
You know, like I actually kindof, I was like, I don't give a
shit about this Christmasconcert.
Like it's terrible.
I've been to these before, youknow, of course my daughter is
sad.
I'm not going to be there.
Of course she's, you know, Oh,it's not, I get it.
(23:12):
And you know, so I.
You know, I give her a littlehug, but like, sometimes it
feels really good to travel andnot be in that mom mode all the
time.
And I share that, because I wantother women to know it's okay,
but like, how do you feel aboutit?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (23:25):
I, I, I probably felt a little more
guilty, but I can tell you, Itotally agree because, because
there are so many demands on us.
There are times where I get evento like, a economy hotel.
Right?
Even if it's an economy hoteland I get in there and I close
the door and I take a warmshower and I lay in bed and put
(23:47):
TV on.
I, if you don't do that, youwon't survive.
Like, but yeah, and I don't feelguilty about that.
There are times where I waslike, Oh my God, I get to fly
for 17 hours to Shanghai.
But no one's talking to
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (24:02):
No one's gonna bug me.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (24:04):
No one's bugging me.
Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma.
Right?
Like, yes.
And I think, and I think in someways, that's why I love being a
working mom is that you havethat.
ability to go into both worldsin and out.
And I think it's kind of a gift,but I'm with you.
And here's this.
So I would say this, I don't,this has happened to you.
I think women can be mean toeach other when you have working
(24:24):
women.
And I'll give you the bestexample.
When I came back from a trip, Igot to go to something at
school.
I don't remember what it was.
It was like ninth grade orsomething.
And this mom walked over and shegoes, Oh my God, it's so good to
see you.
I'm so glad you could come tosomething for the twins.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (24:39):
Like, you're finally here.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (24:40):
But I just first reaction.
Yeah.
I was like, put your wine glassdown and like, let's have a
conversation, but it was I just,at first I was like, are you
kidding?
And then I realized that whenthe women were standing around
asking me about my trips andwhere I was going and there's an
envious on both sides ofwhatever life you've chosen to
live.
Can't we just be nice to eachother and not guilt each other?
(25:03):
Like, just please, like that'sjust nasty, you know?
I mean, I still go back to that.
Just sometimes not fitting in,like they'd have their little
circle.
You have to give that up.
It is.
I mean, you just have to, youcan't, you can't, you just have
to let that go.
And I say that as self talkbecause you can tell I'm still
holding on to it.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (25:20):
And I mean, I remember very vividly,
like when I had my kids, it wasvery much like the mommy wars of
like, if you were a stay at homemom, you were a good mom
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (25:29):
Right.
erica_1_01-08-2025_1207 (25:29):
because you were home with your kids.
But if you were a worker, youknow, and you're out there doing
your thing, and then it's like,well, who are you?
And we're making fun of thepeople who are staying home.
And it was this whole like.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (25:39):
Yeah.
We got to stop
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (25:39):
have to be one or the other.
There is no right or wronganswer.
It's whatever works for you.
But yeah, like let's be okaywith a difference of opinion on
that.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (25:48):
Right.
And let's just help each other.
Either way, being a mom is hard.
So can we just be nicer to eachother?
Right.
Like, I think that would be myglobal solve.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (25:58):
whole world needs to be nicer, but I
do, I do have another question.
I'm really dying to ask you,Emily, because you obviously
with your role, you have tobuild strong relationships with
policymakers, with leaders, allof these, these people in very
high influential places.
What is your best advice forwomen who are looking to build
(26:19):
more influence, to make a largerimpact in industries where maybe
they are not as represented?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (26:26):
Yeah.
I walked into this role andthey'd never had a female CEO in
84 years.
And so there was no doubt, um,that there were people that
weren't happy that the younggirl from new England is what I
was called by some, um, wastaking over this role in Texas.
And so, and I'd neverexperienced that, right.
I'd worked around the world,never experienced that in my
life.
And so I chose to ignore it asjust, they were either
(26:49):
uneducated or they didn't knowenough about me yet where they
could form an opinion based onfact, right.
So I had to, Put that aside andjust work against that.
I would say a couple of thingsdon't, I guess what I would at
the end of the day, respect iswhat the relationship is made
of.
Yes.
You're going to be inenvironments where.
(27:09):
You know, I remember being in a,in a place where I was the only
female member of a team.
And after a dinner, they allpoured into a gentleman's club.
And clearly I wasn't going inand I wasn't upset about it
until my mom said, well, you aredisadvantaged because you're not
in that room to havingconversations about the
business.
Right.
So there's those moments thatfor me, I've chose to accept.
I'm not the call the way 100 HRhotline, right?
(27:31):
I just forged my own path.
I think that for women, Don'tever underestimate what smarts
and respect will get you inrelationships.
And so trade on who you are anddon't try to be smart.
to fit in.
Right.
And what I mean by that is whenI go to the capital, for
example, I've built incrediblerelationships on both sides of
(27:54):
the aisle.
And it's because I'm honest withthe policymakers and their
staff.
If I have to follow up, I followup as expected.
Right.
And if I give someone my word, Ikeep it.
And at the end of the day, thosebasics of life that you're
taught as a child do still havecurrency when you get to a
level.
where the playing fieldsometimes is very unfair.
(28:17):
You still have to stay true to.
I'm going to build theserelationships and as much as I
may get burned because inpolitics you get burned a lot.
I'm truly going to believe thatpeople have the right intentions
and it's hard.
Kelsey, who's my right hand.
Um, we have a lot of thesediscussions as two females,
right?
Which is, oh my gosh, how do we,how do we get this done?
(28:38):
We're not in the Club.
And we truly believe that ifwe're the experts at the table,
that we come prepared, that werespect them and they earn that
respect of us.
At the end of the day, they willcome to us.
And we've shown that success inthe capital.
So I think too many women try tofit in and they try to play that
game.
And I think instead, you alsohave to be able to you.
(29:00):
Not make the other side or let'ssay in men in this case, feel
less than or unworthy, right?
Like that's not what we're herefor.
We're here to have the bestminds at the table, make a
decision.
And so you want to make surethat whoever you're around,
they're comfortable with youtoo.
Right?
Like I watch sports.
This sounds crazy, right?
Watch sports.
I can't even tell you, I playedcollege basketball.
How many times sports has drivena great combination with, with
(29:25):
men, right?
Like just, Hey, what's going onwith UT?
UT is playing on Saturdayagainst Ohio state or Friday.
What do you think?
Oh, okay.
Find a common ground, right?
Find a com don't be polarizing.
Find a common ground.
Um, I think it's made a hugedifference for me.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (29:38):
That is some sound advice.
I love that.
Well, Emily, this is my lastquestion is what I ask everybody
on the podcast, but if youcould, I know, Oh no.
If you could go back in time,right.
To the Emily, who's maybe juststepping into the CEO role
during all of the uncertainty ofthe world.
What piece of advice would yougive her today?
(30:00):
Knowing everything, you know,now
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (30:03):
Wow.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (30:04):
you now have the gift of hindsight.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (30:06):
Oh my gosh.
Um, oh, that's such a goodquestion because it's kind of
emotional too.
Um, what would I have donedifferent?
I probably, God, this is sohard.
Erica, this is, um,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (30:24):
a good one.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2025 (30:25):
I think, gosh, um, I probably
would not have for my own.
And I say this for my ownemotional state, maybe right
from my own wellbeing, I maybewould have dialed it back 10%.
(30:46):
And I say that because I, Iguess for a lot of us, I have to
care deeply about the work I'mdoing.
Right.
I say to people, no disrespectfor Sharpie, but if you asked me
to go be a Sharpie salesperson,I wouldn't be very good.
Right.
But if you ask me to go protectthe food truck that a young, you
know, immigrant has started andis getting some flack from the
(31:09):
health department, I will killpeople literally, right.
To get out of the way.
erica_1_01-08-2025_12073 (31:12):
you're out there.
Yeah.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2025 (31:14):
I am on it.
And I'm like, I'm going to helpyou.
So, so that also comes with acost.
And so I think from my health tomy own wellbeing, to my mental
fitness coming out of thatperiod of 20 hours a day of deep
losses, right?
I mean, people are calling andcrying because they're losing
their, you can't, these aresmall business owners, right?
(31:35):
These are people that took alltheir money and put it into a
business.
And by an act of God, right, arelosing everything.
And I even started to crythinking about it.
But I owned so much of that,that I think that I was
incredibly fragile coming out.
And so if I could do it again, Iwould say to myself, you have to
take the loss to help motivateyou, Emily, but you can't own it
(31:57):
because I think it took me atoll.
You know, whether it be sadcoming out of the pandemic, um,
I owned too much of the pain ofothers.
And I think if I had protectedme, my heart a little bit.
Not changing how I felt, but Ijust, I cared so much.
And I had a team that cared somuch that we felt like when
(32:19):
these businesses would close orwhen a restaurant member would
lose their life to COVID, right?
Like it was brutal and you don'thave time to process it.
You're just going right.
And so I think it all came to anend about a year and a half
later when it was like, I didn'twant to get out of bed.
I was sad.
Like.
I hadn't processed any of it asit was going.
So it's sort of, you know, howdo you lead with incredible
(32:43):
heart, but not take the personalabsorption, right.
Of impacting your life, maybehow physicians do.
I didn't have any of that skilland I just carried all of it
until it was too much.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (32:56):
Yeah.
My mom was a cancer nurse for avery long time.
And she, you know, the role thatshe played at one point in time,
she was a bone marrow transplantcoordinator.
So she was very involved withthe families and it became too
much for her to be able.
She couldn't, as she said, leaveher baggage at the door, you
know, and that was the workbaggage.
And, and it's one of the thingsthat is probably one of the best
(33:19):
things about you.
is how much you care and howdeeply you care, but it can also
be that Achilles heel because ifyou can't take that step back
and put yourself firstsometimes.
You know, it can be like yousaid, you kind of got hit post
all of that.
When you finally took a breath,when you had a minute to slow
down, all of the feelings andthe grief and the emotion hit
(33:39):
you
squadcaster-1hh2_1_ (33:40):
Absolutely.
And there was no place to And Ithink that's a maybe couples
with this, when I lost my dadrecently.
And, um, it's the same, theexpectation is you just get back
on the horse and keep going.
And so I talk about it a lot,that grief part of like, let
your, if you're, if you'releading anyone.
Let them see you be sad.
(34:01):
Let them see you grieve.
Like show that it's okay to haveemotion.
Um, we're held to a differentstandard.
I say that we are as women,we're held to a different
standard of, of expectation ofhow we need to be put together.
Um, and I think we need to do abetter job of allowing people to
see that we have.
feelings, but also that we hurt.
(34:21):
Um, but you're right.
The self care piece is not mystrength.
Um, and COVID exasperated that.
And so I think for all womenkeeping that self care, put your
oxygen mask on before you put iton your, yeah, I tried it that
mantra all the time now, butwe'll see how it goes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (34:37):
were, listen, here's what I do know.
We are all a work in progress.
Sometimes you will nail it,Ellie, and sometimes you will
fail it.
And that's all I know.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (34:48):
Yes.
Amen.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (34:49):
so much for, for being real, for
being open and vulnerable andtalking about all of this.
It is so incredibly interesting,but also so inspiring.
So Emily, thank you so much forbeing here and spending time
with me today.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (35:00):
Thank you so much.
Well, how, oh my gosh.
Oh, what an incredibleconversation with Dr.
Emily Williams night, her storyis such a powerful reminder,
that true leadership isn't abouthaving all the answers.
It's more about the courage tostep up, to make the tough
calls, right.
And to fight for what matters.
(35:21):
Even when the path ahead isuncertain.
Emily's resilience, her grit andher unwavering commitment to
making an impact.
Y'all it is beyond inspiring.
And I love what she shared aboutblending, you know, not
balancing, but blending all ofthe different parts of life.
Because let's be honest, right?
(35:41):
For ambitious women, moms andleaders like us, there is no
perfect formula.
There's only what works for you.
So if today's conversationresonated and I hope it did do
me this favor, share thisepisode with a friend or someone
who needs to hear it.
Screenshot it tag me tag Emily,let us know what stood out most
to you.
And if you're loving theseconversations, don't forget to
(36:04):
subscribe, leave a review andkeep showing up for yourself in
big, bold ways.
Y'all already noticed, but it'stime to start smashing those
ceilings that we put overourselves.
See you next time.
Today I'm sitting down with a true
(00:01):
powerhouse in leadership andadvocacy, and that is Dr.
Emily Williams Knight.
As the president and CEO of theTexas Restaurant Association and
Foundation, Emily is anationally recognized leader who
played a pivotal role in savingthousands of restaurants during
the COVID 19 pandemic.
With over 20 years of globalexperience, she is a champion
(00:24):
for legislative success.
workforce development andcreating opportunities for
Texans to build thriving careersin the food service industry.
Now, Emily's story is a specialone.
It is one of vision of grit andof impact.
And today she is here to shareher insights on leading through
crisis, building influence, andpaving the way for more women to
(00:48):
rise in leadership.
Well, welcome to the glassceiling and sticky floor
podcast.
The show that is here to empoweryou to break free from limiting
beliefs, ditch toxic behaviors,and unlock the infinite
possibilities waiting for you.
This is your time to live yourbest life unapologetically I'm
Erica Rooney, your host andbiggest cheerleader on a mission
(01:09):
to get more women into positionsof power and keep them there
where they belong.
If you're ready to shatterceilings, crush self-doubt and
build a career in lifeoverflowing.
With growth and abundance.
You're in the right place.
Here's the deal.
We talk about the real stuffhere.
Imposter syndrome,perfectionism, fear, burnout,
you name it.
(01:30):
It's raw.
It's honest.
And it's exactly what you needto level up.
So grab a seat, pop in a nearby.
And let's dive in.
erica_1_01-08-2025_12073 (01:39):
Emily, welcome to podcast.
I am so thrilled you're here.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2025 (01:45):
I am so thrilled and really
grateful to be here.
Thank you so much.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (01:49):
Well, let's dive in because I am so
intrigued by you and everythingyou do, but tell me more, like,
what do we not know about you?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (02:00):
Um, so it's funny.
I get asked that sometimes.
I think recently someone said,you're like an enigma, like
you're cool, but you shouldn'tbe like, and I'm like, I'm not
sure if I should be offended bythat or not.
Um, but I think, you know, Ithink when you think of me,
right, you typically see me inthe world I exist in today,
which is I'll stand up in frontof thousands of people and
speak, or I'll, you know, go tothe Capitol and fight for
(02:21):
policy.
I think, but I always try toremind people like that I came
from the same place that.
Everyone else has.
And so for me, I think, youknow, I decided to be in the
world of hospitality when I wasin the third grade.
And I'm sure some of thelisteners will remember a show
called hotel with Connie Selicaand James Brolin.
And I was at a military family.
(02:42):
So everything was the same.
Everyone's car was the same.
We lived in the same Navyhousing.
Everything was just the same.
We brought the same coats at theflea market.
And there was one night a weekwhere I could watch the show and
it just imagined this glamorouslifestyle.
Um, and so in the third grade, Imarched into my parents and it
was my mom.
And I said, you know, I'm goingto work in hotels one day.
I'm going to be in thehospitality industry.
(03:02):
And thankfully, I don't eventhink she knew what it was.
And she's like, that soundsgreat, Emily.
Um, and then, you know, throughmy, I try to tell people to
like, through my schooling, Iwasn't a great student.
Like in high school, I, theytold me I should, told my
parents I should go to beautyschool.
Like I was an athlete.
I didn't even brush my hair.
Right.
Like.
And not that there's anythingwrong with that, but it was this
idea that like, I was toooutgoing and concerned about
(03:25):
everyone else and talk too muchand all those things that now
result in my career.
And so I like to remind peoplethat like, it doesn't matter
where you are in your life.
Like for me.
I was someone that, you know, I,this was never on the radar,
right.
To be a CEO, that was never thedream.
And so sort of how you just keepgoing and it gets you to where
you want to be.
But, but I'm just like everyoneelse.
(03:45):
I think that's what I wantpeople to know is hard days and
good days and challenging days,and my roots are no different
than anyone else.
It's just some of the decision Imade sort of put me in the spot
I'm in today.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (03:56):
So interesting, right?
I mean, you and I were talkingbefore I hit the record button
and I said, we have got to hearthis backstory because I don't
think any little girl sits downto dream to be the CEO of the
restaurant, like food and Bevand all of that, you know, it's
like, that's usually not on topof the wishlist, but I love this
story that gets us there.
(04:16):
And I'm just thinking back, youknow, to 2020 and the pandemic
and all of the madness of theworld and how much that impacted
you and your role in all ofthis.
all of the things thatimmediately happened.
And I would love for you tofirst kind of like explain what
that was, because I don't thinkpeople think through all of the
(04:37):
things that happened with therestaurant industry during that
time.
So take it away.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (04:43):
my gosh.
I think for so many of us, wesometimes almost have a hard
time going back because as theworld, not only the U.
S., but the world was sort ofgrieving and wondering and what
was happening and trying todiscern the news.
We were in a let's save livesand save businesses.
And to us, that charge is stillthe greatest I'm gift I was ever
(05:05):
given.
And so I sort of, you know, Itell how I arrived to the
moment.
I was a brand new CEO.
I had not met the governor and Ihad not met an elected official
when I got the call saying, Ithink we're going to shut
everything down from thegovernor's chief of staff.
So for me, I was up inWashington, D.
C.
Being kind of onboarded.
(05:25):
I was sitting with Senator Cruzin a meeting.
Mhm.
I was there for about 40minutes.
That's an important number in asecond.
And then I transitioned tomeeting with Congressman
Crenshaw.
And he said, I'm sorry, it'sgreat to meet you, but I have to
leave.
The bells were going off in theCapitol.
We have our first coronavirusvote.
It wasn't even called COVID.
I'm like, okay, that's kind oflike a New York problem.
(05:47):
You know, I'm going back toTexas, fly home, land, get a
call from the senators.
Cruz's chief of staff in themorning saying, listen, the
Senator has quarantined.
You were with him for a greatdeal of time.
You might want to quarantinetoo.
And I was like, what?
I'm going to get likecoronavirus from Senator Cruz?
Like, what is this?
And so I stayed home for threedays out of, you know, respect
(06:08):
and not knowing what washappening.
And then my family said, Hey,listen, we're going to Cabo on
vacation and all you've done iswork for six months.
And so aren't you going to come?
And I fly to Cabo and within twodays, the governor's chief of
staff calls and says, listen,we're going to shut it down.
But if we work together andwe're honest with each other, we
don't go to the press.
We're not negative.
(06:28):
And we get through this.
We can do this.
And I'll never forget thosewords because that decision that
day to partner and not beadversary, I think was a game
changer.
And for me, It was the moment Ineeded maybe my whole life,
which was to lead through acrisis like I captured all the
animals when I was little thatneeded a home.
(06:50):
I looked for the kid that didn'thave a friend at lunch, like my
natural love of helping andfighting for people who don't
have a voice.
It was like God just gave methis platform that I didn't ask
for.
I didn't even know it wascoming.
And so from that moment, yeah,Which the morning after in
Texas, just to give you thescope, we had about 50,000
(07:12):
restaurants employing about 1.2million Texans, and within 24
hours, less than 30% of themcould generate a penny.
And I had 800,000 working peopleon the sidelines without a job.
And so you talk about fight orflight, I had two choices.
Hide or lead.
(07:32):
And I chose to lead in thatmoment.
I wish people could understandit's so much finger pointing
today, whatever playbook youhad, it didn't matter.
Right?
I mean, you were literallybalancing the economy and lives
and that that is such a big jobthat it was only about three
months in that I finally criedand I cried so hard, I couldn't
(07:54):
breathe.
And it was the enormity of.
How do you prioritize businessesover human lives?
How do you balance both?
How do you live in a world whereno matter what you decide,
people like you or they don'tmask, don't mask vaccine, don't
mask.
So the hate mail coming at me ona daily basis on my team was
extraordinary, but you just,there was something inside me
(08:16):
that said, You're going to carrythese people through and you're
going to work day and night,Emily.
This is what you've been calledto do.
And my goal was to not letanyone fail.
And I had the most amazing teamthat believed the same thing.
And so for me, it's the greatestmoment of my career.
And I always get asked, youwould never do that again, would
you?
And I would do it again.
(08:37):
100 times over.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (08:39):
Oh my gosh.
I am so grateful that you kindof outlined a bit of that
because just those numbersreally
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (08:46):
Oh,
erica_1_01-08-2025_1207 (08:47):
Express the devastation, right?
And I was an extra peopleofficer.
So I dealt with a lot of that ona smaller scale.
And it's so interesting becauseyou are, you're trying to
balance the health ofbusinesses, but also people's
lives.
And you have this whole questionof like, what's the ethical
thing to do?
What's the right thing to do?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (09:06):
Yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (09:07):
I mean, my
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (09:08):
And what information?
Yeah.
And what information are youusing?
Right?
What information are yougetting?
And sometimes we would getinformation that the public
didn't have.
So we're making decisions and itmay not
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (09:19):
make sense to the outside world.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01- (09:22):
Correct.
And your one issue is part of amuch bigger ecosystem, but I'll
tell you something that I'vecarried with me today, which I
didn't know who was a Republicanand who was a Democrat.
I was brand new.
And so in a state, I maybestepped in it a lot of times in
the normal operating environmentof work, because I would go to
someone who necessarily wouldn'twant to help or, you know, when
(09:45):
you don't know people'spolitical affiliation, you get
more done because you justdemand excellence and help for
your constituents.
And so to me, I think the reasonthat Texas is really known as
one of the leaders out of thepandemic, um, we were one of the
first to open.
We suffered very few losses.
Um, the losses we suffered areclearly.
Catastrophic, right?
(10:06):
If you've lost your business.
Um, but considering what therunway looked like to what we
got today, it was verydifferent.
And I think a big part of thatwas this unified approach that
we took, which is everyoneshould care about businesses and
everyone should care aboutrestaurants.
And that was the best gift Ihad, which I didn't have.
I didn't owe anyone anything.
(10:26):
They didn't owe me anything.
And I was just this womanfighting for these people that
had no voice.
Like, how do you work in thelegislative process?
If you're a single restaurantowner in El Paso, Texas, you
need a trade association.
Um, and so I think that was, Ialways say it was an honor.
It was like an honor to be, tosee my whole life and all the
gifts I was given come to lifein a moment where I could put
(10:48):
them to best use.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (10:50):
So you talked about you had two
choices.
You could either lead or youcould hide.
And obviously you chose to lead.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (10:58):
Yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (10:59):
But I can imagine that there had to
have been moments where you justwanted to bury your head in the
sand.
Maybe moments where you felttotally stuck or helpless.
You know, talk to me about howyou moved through that and what
could other women learn fromthat experience.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (11:16):
Yeah, that's such a good question.
You know, I think, I think youhave a choice to make every day
when you wake up.
And I think that the outsideenvironment teaches us that
where we are has been done to usin some way, right?
Wherever we sit today, that, andthat I don't use the word victim
because I don't think women playvictim.
I think the road that women areon is so complicated and has so
(11:40):
many barriers in it that for me,I think I think when I decide,
what I've decided is that at theend of the day, the only thing
that matters really is how Iview myself, right?
Like, like learning to beunliked is one of the best gifts
you can give yourself.
(12:00):
And that happened for me in my30s.
I wish it had happened in my20s, but realizing that there
were people that didn't like meand wouldn't like me, and I
needed to be okay with that.
I think that's number one,right?
Which was, and that translatesto my personal life or my
professional life.
And that is so hard because whenpeople don't like us or don't
(12:21):
like our decisions, wepersonalize it as women.
And then what that does is itparalyzes us and then we don't
move.
So for me, I accepted that nomatter what I did, there would
be an opposing force and, and Iwas going to, as I say, um, I
had a board member and this is,I think, a great little analogy
that said to me, I called him atone moment because we also had
(12:42):
the George Floyd incident andreally murder happened during
this period.
So that just layered acomplexity for us.
And I had a, a, a run in with aboard member that I thought was
very unfair and I was in one ofthose poor me moments and I
called this board member and hesaid, when you walk up to the
plate and you're ready to swinga home run, if you listen to the
(13:02):
people in the cheap seats, Thatare telling you which way to bat
and which way to hit, you're notgoing to have focus and you're
not going to hit a home run,ignore the cheap seats.
And so I had this vision in mymind of stepping up to the plate
and making a big decision andhaving people calling at me in
the, in the stands and realizingthat I needed to cut that noise
out.
So I think one is, is stayingtrue to who you are and then not
(13:25):
being afraid to make a decisionor, or take your career in a way
that people don't support.
They don't matter.
Right.
So that is one.
I think two is, is I feelinternally better when I'm in
charge.
Right.
I just,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (13:42):
I mean, me too.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (13:44):
yeah, I mean, and I like, I don't even
think it's like a type a thing.
It's just, I, I, I sort of everyday do a little bit of self
talk.
Like, like Emily, you can dothat.
Right.
Like Emily, you've got this,like, it is a little of how you
talk to yourself is how you.
Behave, right?
And, and so surrounding yourselfwith people that also encourage
(14:04):
you when you say, I want to takethis promotion or for Emily, I
want to lead this.
We're going to do this.
Well, I do.
Or should you really, I mean,you could just be at home.
Like, you don't really need todo that, right?
Like you have to get the earsout of your life and surround
yourself with tiggers.
And I think for me, I had a, agreat team and I had an
incredible family and youngdaughters.
That were like, mom, go, becauseI sat in the office.
(14:25):
You're looking at me and rightnow for a year and I didn't
leave.
Right.
And so I had that environmentthat wanted me to win.
I think for a lot of women, wesometimes surround ourselves
with people that want us to bewhere we are today because it's
comfortable for them.
And we relate.
And yet you need to have peoplearound you.
They're like, you can do more.
You have more capability.
(14:45):
I know you can do it.
Um, that surrounding voice canbe so powerful in your life.
Um, and so finding those peoplethat are true to making you out
and helping you be who you weremade to be.
I think that's been a huge pieceof of what helps me lead.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (15:02):
I'm a huge believer in community and
I, I really believe insurrounding yourself with people
who are better than you, right?
Like people who know more thanyou, who are smarter than you,
who have done it.
And there's that old sayingthat, you know, if you're the
smartest person in the room,you're in the wrong room.
But it's so true because peoplewho are stuck on a smaller
(15:22):
mindset of what is possible, Youknow what?
What is actually what the worldis capable of what you are
capable of?
Like, yeah, you're gonna stayplaying small.
But if you are around people whobelieve in that whole concept of
infinite possibilities and trulythings we have never seen
before, you know, I love tothink of really great innovators
(15:43):
like Steve Jobs.
There used to be a day where wenever imagined an iPod, like the
old school iPod, not your phonethat plays music, but the iPod
in your pocket.
That was once never a thing,right?
Boomboxes were a
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (15:57):
Right.
Yeah.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (15:58):
you have to surround yourself with
these people who just believe inpossibility.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (16:03):
Well, and I think I just funny.
I was, I have a morning routinewhere I watch Squawk Box.
It's like this thing of mine.
And, um, and ironically broughtthis up because they were
looking at Tesla shares andTesla shares were falling
because people weren't buying asmore cars.
And then they did an interviewand Elon said, well, I'm not
thinking about cars.
I'm doing mobile taxis.
(16:23):
And it just, I say that becausewe're all thinking, Ooh, they're
in trouble.
They're not going to sell asmany cars.
And he's already, whether youlike him or not, he's they're
talking about mobile tax.
Like we're like, Oh, what do youthink of mobile?
Right.
And that just, I get thosereminders of like, Emily, don't
think small.
Right.
Like what everyone's thinkingabout, think about if you can
think one step ahead, but yousaid something I think is so
important, which is.
(16:44):
Grit and growth mindset.
And I think that I do a ton oftalks with women about grit and
growth mindset, because it is ahuge piece of my life and that
growth mindset of perceivingthat if I set a goal, I'm going
to just work until I achieve itand not let anything or anyone
stop me.
Um, I talk about grit all thetime because it's the one thing
(17:05):
that can be taught or learned.
It's not in your DNA.
You weren't born with it.
So I feel like it's the onepiece for women that If they
have that right group aroundthem and their mindset is right,
there's nothing we can't do.
It's not that easy, but there'snothing we can't do.
Nothing.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (17:23):
I agree with that.
And, and actually it's a perfectlead into kind of like where my
brain has been ping pongingbecause you also have twin
daughters, correct?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (17:32):
Yes.
Yeah.
Who turned 19
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (17:35):
twin daughters, you have this very
crazy busy career that obviouslycould demand all of you at the
drop of a hat, right?
Like that's the position we'rein.
How did you find, and I'm gonnause this word, you can tell me
if you like it or not, but like,how do you balance it all?
How do you integrate it all?
(17:55):
Right?
There's so many words for thatnowadays.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (17:58):
God, such a good question.
Cause my daughter's just leftfor college.
So I can tell women that you gothrough this very reflective
period in the first six months.
I have found of, did I doenough?
Was I around enough?
Did I miss too many things?
Um, I don't know if it's God wayof protecting you from the feels
that in, for me, mine both leftand exited at the same time.
(18:20):
And so you go from being thismom of the night twins to being
an empty house.
And so, If I'm honest, I haveoverscheduled myself because
that helps you not feel, um, andreally processed how I went
about being a working mom.
And I would say a couple thingsI said, I would use the word
blend.
Um, I tried to balance being amom and at the time of president
(18:44):
of a college and really tried todo what I was taught.
By the world, which was to keepthose two things separate,
right?
That didn't work for me.
Um, it didn't work for a numberof reasons, but what I found is
when I was trying to balance,there were days I was a great
leader and days I was a greatmom, but it wasn't that they
were happening on the same day.
And so I had a lot of guilt.
And so what I decided to do wasto use the word blend.
(19:05):
And I blend the both together.
And what does that mean?
It looks like my daughters wouldcome in on zoom meetings and ask
me for something.
And I would say, excuse me onesecond.
And I would address them.
My teams I have led, watched mygirls grow up and my girls know
the people that I work with on afirst name basis.
And so I decided not to try tohide, but to more have very open
(19:27):
dialogue with them.
Um, I traveled a ton when theywere young, I was in a global
job.
And so I set a rule that I wouldbe gone no more than one week.
So one week was, and I don'teven know why I did it, but I
can tell you there are momentswe have on social media today
where I am racing back fromSydney, Australia through Los
Angeles to Chicago.
(19:48):
And I'm watching the plane onflight aware, and I'm going to
have 46 minutes until I hit mydeadline.
Right.
So I, so I say that because Itmade me feel in control.
So for working moms, if you canset sort of, I'm not going to
miss the big things and I'mgoing to accept that I'm going
to miss the small things thattook the guilt away, I won't
(20:09):
miss a birthday.
I won't miss the first day ofschool.
I won't miss the Christmasholiday.
But I may miss when they dotheir speech at school on, you
know, Johnny Appleseed, but Oh,wow.
Guess what?
I'm in Shanghai and this is areal example and she's doing her
Johnny Appleseed presentationand I'm on FaceTime.
Right?
So I think for a lot of workingmoms, first, you have to believe
(20:31):
that you can have it all.
You just have to decide what allmeans to you.
And I think the world has taughtus that all means that you're
perfectly quaffed as a femaleexecutive and you are, you know,
A mom that has kids in perfectclothing and you don't miss a
beat.
Guess what?
That's not reality.
And so show up normal to takethe pressure off of all the
women behind you.
Show up as someone sometimesthat is not put together, who
(20:53):
did not sleep.
Talk about it.
Cry openly in front of yourteams when you're, Trying to
breastfeed and you're stuck on aflight on the runway for four
hours and what that's like, Iremember that, but, but be real,
be real, like that, that is justbe real to the women behind you
and so they can see that whenthey maybe have kids and
transition back to work.
That is, it is not pretty.
(21:14):
It is not pretty being a femalewho is working with children as
a primary caregiver.
And as you go up that ladder,the expectations to exit the
home are harder and you justhave to be real with your kids
and your work.
Um, and my kids see that, youknow, I had got stuck yesterday
on a call.
My daughter, it was her 19thbirthday.
Her twin sister's gone firsttime apart, and we were supposed
(21:36):
to go shopping.
And I was on a call that endedup an hour and a half long, and
she was really upset.
And I did say at first, do youlike the Disney world I've
created for you?
And then I'm like, that's reallynasty.
Don't do that.
I'm like, and I was like, okay,do you understand what happened?
This is what mom was doing.
She goes, I know, but can wehave a little more time
tomorrow?
I was like, perfect.
So I think, just, I think, Ithink you just have to decide
(21:58):
what all means and it's notperfection or balance.
To me, it's blend and it's beingreal with both, both sides of
the coin, the people you workwith and your kids and your
husband,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:08):
Oh my gosh.
Well, first of all, I love allof that.
So I have a six and a half yearold, you know, I have to include
that
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (22:17):
of course,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:18):
and a half year old, there'll be, you
know, seven and 10.
So I'm in it
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (22:22):
you're in it.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:23):
very, Very much kind of living that
same lifestyle as you.
And before I left corporate, Iwas traveling to India all the
time.
And I was gone for
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (22:29):
Oh my gosh.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:30):
at a time.
It was impossible to do it anyway else,
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (22:34):
Yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:35):
but what I will say, and I'm going
to make this public admissionjust for everybody else.
And then you can tell me if youthink it, but I'm going first
here, all of those things that Imissed, right?
Like just the other day, Imissed the third grade Christmas
concert, right?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (22:50):
Oh, oh yes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (22:51):
All of these things that I have
missed.
I didn't feel that guilty aboutmissing them.
You know, like I actually kindof, I was like, I don't give a
shit about this Christmasconcert.
Like it's terrible.
I've been to these before, youknow, of course my daughter is
sad.
I'm not going to be there.
Of course she's, you know, Oh,it's not, I get it.
(23:12):
And you know, so I.
You know, I give her a littlehug, but like, sometimes it
feels really good to travel andnot be in that mom mode all the
time.
And I share that, because I wantother women to know it's okay,
but like, how do you feel aboutit?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (23:25):
I, I, I probably felt a little more
guilty, but I can tell you, Itotally agree because, because
there are so many demands on us.
There are times where I get evento like, a economy hotel.
Right?
Even if it's an economy hoteland I get in there and I close
the door and I take a warmshower and I lay in bed and put
(23:47):
TV on.
I, if you don't do that, youwon't survive.
Like, but yeah, and I don't feelguilty about that.
There are times where I waslike, Oh my God, I get to fly
for 17 hours to Shanghai.
But no one's talking to
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (24:02):
No one's gonna bug me.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (24:04):
No one's bugging me.
Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma.
Right?
Like, yes.
And I think, and I think in someways, that's why I love being a
working mom is that you havethat.
ability to go into both worldsin and out.
And I think it's kind of a gift,but I'm with you.
And here's this.
So I would say this, I don't,this has happened to you.
I think women can be mean toeach other when you have working
(24:24):
women.
And I'll give you the bestexample.
When I came back from a trip, Igot to go to something at
school.
I don't remember what it was.
It was like ninth grade orsomething.
And this mom walked over and shegoes, Oh my God, it's so good to
see you.
I'm so glad you could come tosomething for the twins.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (24:39):
Like, you're finally here.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-20 (24:40):
But I just first reaction.
Yeah.
I was like, put your wine glassdown and like, let's have a
conversation, but it was I just,at first I was like, are you
kidding?
And then I realized that whenthe women were standing around
asking me about my trips andwhere I was going and there's an
envious on both sides ofwhatever life you've chosen to
live.
Can't we just be nice to eachother and not guilt each other?
(25:03):
Like, just please, like that'sjust nasty, you know?
I mean, I still go back to that.
Just sometimes not fitting in,like they'd have their little
circle.
You have to give that up.
It is.
I mean, you just have to, youcan't, you can't, you just have
to let that go.
And I say that as self talkbecause you can tell I'm still
holding on to it.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (25:20):
And I mean, I remember very vividly,
like when I had my kids, it wasvery much like the mommy wars of
like, if you were a stay at homemom, you were a good mom
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (25:29):
Right.
erica_1_01-08-2025_1207 (25:29):
because you were home with your kids.
But if you were a worker, youknow, and you're out there doing
your thing, and then it's like,well, who are you?
And we're making fun of thepeople who are staying home.
And it was this whole like.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (25:39):
Yeah.
We got to stop
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (25:39):
have to be one or the other.
There is no right or wronganswer.
It's whatever works for you.
But yeah, like let's be okaywith a difference of opinion on
that.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08 (25:48):
Right.
And let's just help each other.
Either way, being a mom is hard.
So can we just be nicer to eachother?
Right.
Like, I think that would be myglobal solve.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (25:58):
whole world needs to be nicer, but I
do, I do have another question.
I'm really dying to ask you,Emily, because you obviously
with your role, you have tobuild strong relationships with
policymakers, with leaders, allof these, these people in very
high influential places.
What is your best advice forwomen who are looking to build
(26:19):
more influence, to make a largerimpact in industries where maybe
they are not as represented?
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (26:26):
Yeah.
I walked into this role andthey'd never had a female CEO in
84 years.
And so there was no doubt, um,that there were people that
weren't happy that the younggirl from new England is what I
was called by some, um, wastaking over this role in Texas.
And so, and I'd neverexperienced that, right.
I'd worked around the world,never experienced that in my
life.
And so I chose to ignore it asjust, they were either
(26:49):
uneducated or they didn't knowenough about me yet where they
could form an opinion based onfact, right.
So I had to, Put that aside andjust work against that.
I would say a couple of thingsdon't, I guess what I would at
the end of the day, respect iswhat the relationship is made
of.
Yes.
You're going to be inenvironments where.
(27:09):
You know, I remember being in a,in a place where I was the only
female member of a team.
And after a dinner, they allpoured into a gentleman's club.
And clearly I wasn't going inand I wasn't upset about it
until my mom said, well, you aredisadvantaged because you're not
in that room to havingconversations about the
business.
Right.
So there's those moments thatfor me, I've chose to accept.
I'm not the call the way 100 HRhotline, right?
(27:31):
I just forged my own path.
I think that for women, Don'tever underestimate what smarts
and respect will get you inrelationships.
And so trade on who you are anddon't try to be smart.
to fit in.
Right.
And what I mean by that is whenI go to the capital, for
example, I've built incrediblerelationships on both sides of
(27:54):
the aisle.
And it's because I'm honest withthe policymakers and their
staff.
If I have to follow up, I followup as expected.
Right.
And if I give someone my word, Ikeep it.
And at the end of the day, thosebasics of life that you're
taught as a child do still havecurrency when you get to a
level.
where the playing fieldsometimes is very unfair.
(28:17):
You still have to stay true to.
I'm going to build theserelationships and as much as I
may get burned because inpolitics you get burned a lot.
I'm truly going to believe thatpeople have the right intentions
and it's hard.
Kelsey, who's my right hand.
Um, we have a lot of thesediscussions as two females,
right?
Which is, oh my gosh, how do we,how do we get this done?
(28:38):
We're not in the Club.
And we truly believe that ifwe're the experts at the table,
that we come prepared, that werespect them and they earn that
respect of us.
At the end of the day, they willcome to us.
And we've shown that success inthe capital.
So I think too many women try tofit in and they try to play that
game.
And I think instead, you alsohave to be able to you.
(29:00):
Not make the other side or let'ssay in men in this case, feel
less than or unworthy, right?
Like that's not what we're herefor.
We're here to have the bestminds at the table, make a
decision.
And so you want to make surethat whoever you're around,
they're comfortable with youtoo.
Right?
Like I watch sports.
This sounds crazy, right?
Watch sports.
I can't even tell you, I playedcollege basketball.
How many times sports has drivena great combination with, with
(29:25):
men, right?
Like just, Hey, what's going onwith UT?
UT is playing on Saturdayagainst Ohio state or Friday.
What do you think?
Oh, okay.
Find a common ground, right?
Find a com don't be polarizing.
Find a common ground.
Um, I think it's made a hugedifference for me.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (29:38):
That is some sound advice.
I love that.
Well, Emily, this is my lastquestion is what I ask everybody
on the podcast, but if youcould, I know, Oh no.
If you could go back in time,right.
To the Emily, who's maybe juststepping into the CEO role
during all of the uncertainty ofthe world.
What piece of advice would yougive her today?
(30:00):
Knowing everything, you know,now
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (30:03):
Wow.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (30:04):
you now have the gift of hindsight.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-202 (30:06):
Oh my gosh.
Um, oh, that's such a goodquestion because it's kind of
emotional too.
Um, what would I have donedifferent?
I probably, God, this is sohard.
Erica, this is, um,
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (30:24):
a good one.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2025 (30:25):
I think, gosh, um, I probably
would not have for my own.
And I say this for my ownemotional state, maybe right
from my own wellbeing, I maybewould have dialed it back 10%.
(30:46):
And I say that because I, Iguess for a lot of us, I have to
care deeply about the work I'mdoing.
Right.
I say to people, no disrespectfor Sharpie, but if you asked me
to go be a Sharpie salesperson,I wouldn't be very good.
Right.
But if you ask me to go protectthe food truck that a young, you
know, immigrant has started andis getting some flack from the
(31:09):
health department, I will killpeople literally, right.
To get out of the way.
erica_1_01-08-2025_12073 (31:12):
you're out there.
Yeah.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2025 (31:14):
I am on it.
And I'm like, I'm going to helpyou.
So, so that also comes with acost.
And so I think from my health tomy own wellbeing, to my mental
fitness coming out of thatperiod of 20 hours a day of deep
losses, right?
I mean, people are calling andcrying because they're losing
their, you can't, these aresmall business owners, right?
(31:35):
These are people that took alltheir money and put it into a
business.
And by an act of God, right, arelosing everything.
And I even started to crythinking about it.
But I owned so much of that,that I think that I was
incredibly fragile coming out.
And so if I could do it again, Iwould say to myself, you have to
take the loss to help motivateyou, Emily, but you can't own it
(31:57):
because I think it took me atoll.
You know, whether it be sadcoming out of the pandemic, um,
I owned too much of the pain ofothers.
And I think if I had protectedme, my heart a little bit.
Not changing how I felt, but Ijust, I cared so much.
And I had a team that cared somuch that we felt like when
(32:19):
these businesses would close orwhen a restaurant member would
lose their life to COVID, right?
Like it was brutal and you don'thave time to process it.
You're just going right.
And so I think it all came to anend about a year and a half
later when it was like, I didn'twant to get out of bed.
I was sad.
Like.
I hadn't processed any of it asit was going.
So it's sort of, you know, howdo you lead with incredible
(32:43):
heart, but not take the personalabsorption, right.
Of impacting your life, maybehow physicians do.
I didn't have any of that skilland I just carried all of it
until it was too much.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (32:56):
Yeah.
My mom was a cancer nurse for avery long time.
And she, you know, the role thatshe played at one point in time,
she was a bone marrow transplantcoordinator.
So she was very involved withthe families and it became too
much for her to be able.
She couldn't, as she said, leaveher baggage at the door, you
know, and that was the workbaggage.
And, and it's one of the thingsthat is probably one of the best
(33:19):
things about you.
is how much you care and howdeeply you care, but it can also
be that Achilles heel because ifyou can't take that step back
and put yourself firstsometimes.
You know, it can be like yousaid, you kind of got hit post
all of that.
When you finally took a breath,when you had a minute to slow
down, all of the feelings andthe grief and the emotion hit
(33:39):
you
squadcaster-1hh2_1_ (33:40):
Absolutely.
And there was no place to And Ithink that's a maybe couples
with this, when I lost my dadrecently.
And, um, it's the same, theexpectation is you just get back
on the horse and keep going.
And so I talk about it a lot,that grief part of like, let
your, if you're, if you'releading anyone.
Let them see you be sad.
(34:01):
Let them see you grieve.
Like show that it's okay to haveemotion.
Um, we're held to a differentstandard.
I say that we are as women,we're held to a different
standard of, of expectation ofhow we need to be put together.
Um, and I think we need to do abetter job of allowing people to
see that we have.
feelings, but also that we hurt.
(34:21):
Um, but you're right.
The self care piece is not mystrength.
Um, and COVID exasperated that.
And so I think for all womenkeeping that self care, put your
oxygen mask on before you put iton your, yeah, I tried it that
mantra all the time now, butwe'll see how it goes.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (34:37):
were, listen, here's what I do know.
We are all a work in progress.
Sometimes you will nail it,Ellie, and sometimes you will
fail it.
And that's all I know.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08-2 (34:48):
Yes.
Amen.
erica_1_01-08-2025_120737 (34:49):
so much for, for being real, for
being open and vulnerable andtalking about all of this.
It is so incredibly interesting,but also so inspiring.
So Emily, thank you so much forbeing here and spending time
with me today.
squadcaster-1hh2_1_01-08- (35:00):
Thank you so much.
Well, how, oh my gosh.
Oh, what an incredibleconversation with Dr.
Emily Williams night, her storyis such a powerful reminder,
that true leadership isn't abouthaving all the answers.
It's more about the courage tostep up, to make the tough
calls, right.
And to fight for what matters.
(35:21):
Even when the path ahead isuncertain.
Emily's resilience, her grit andher unwavering commitment to
making an impact.
Y'all it is beyond inspiring.
And I love what she shared aboutblending, you know, not
balancing, but blending all ofthe different parts of life.
Because let's be honest, right?
(35:41):
For ambitious women, moms andleaders like us, there is no
perfect formula.
There's only what works for you.
So if today's conversationresonated and I hope it did do
me this favor, share thisepisode with a friend or someone
who needs to hear it.
Screenshot it tag me tag Emily,let us know what stood out most
to you.
And if you're loving theseconversations, don't forget to
(36:04):
subscribe, leave a review andkeep showing up for yourself in
big, bold ways.
Y'all already noticed, but it'stime to start smashing those
ceilings that we put overourselves.
See you next time.
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