April 25, 2024 • 15 mins
Unlock the full potential of your localization team with insights from International Expansion & Growth Advisor, Kevin O'Donnell. If you've ever wondered how to transform your team from a background player into a strategic revenue powerhouse, this episode is your treasure map.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Antoine Rey (00:18):
Hi everyone.
I'm Antoine Rey and I will beyour host today for this Global
Ambitions podcast episode.
And today my guest is KevinO'Donnell.
Kevin has worked inlocalization capacity at many
multinational companies,including Dropbox, Nitro and
Microsoft.
He's now an independentconsultant in international and
gross expansion.
Kevin, welcome to the program.
Kevin O'Donnell (00:39):
Thank you, Antoine, great to speak with you
today.
Antoine Rey (00:41):
So you've made a career turn there recently and
you're now consulting for anumber of organizations.
But, based on your experience,both on the consulting side and
with your previous companies,one of the main questions that
I'm hearing from a lot oflocalization managers is how can
we become more strategic in ourorganization?
(01:01):
How can we move away from beinga cost center to a strategic
revenue contributor, forinstance?
And so it's trying to give thelisteners here some practical
steps and maybe trying to avoidcertain pitfalls.
And why is it important?
Why do they fail?
Why do they succeed in that?
Kevin O'Donnell (01:21):
Yeah, I love this question because it's such
a common phenomenon wherelocalization teams are often
characterized as purely a costcenter, and I think that
undersells and underutilizestheir assets, and I think
they're one of the mostunderutilized assets in any
organization.
I think it needs to start witha mindset change from
(01:42):
localization leaders themselves.
I think they need to movebeyond their remit of delivering
a localized product and thinkabout how they can become a
growth driver for theirorganization, and some of the
ways this can be challenged isby changing how you talk about
localization in an organization.
So many localization teams willhighlight how many words
(02:06):
they've localized, what theircost per word is, what their
turnaround time is all importantmetrics but when you're talking
to senior leaders in anorganization, they don't
understand the context of that,they don't map that to company
growth, and so there's adisconnect there.
So if you talk aboutlocalization in terms of
(02:27):
transactional metrics andoperational attributes, you are
limiting the scope of yourconversation.
So I think the first imperativeis to change the conversation
to start talking aboutlocalization in strategic terms.
So map it to what the companycares about.
So that might be globalexpansion, it might be more
(02:48):
monthly active users, it mightbe a better revenue share
internationally compared to theUS.
So if you understand what thecompany cares about, then start
talking about outcomes insteadof outputs for your own
localization team.
So that's where I would alwaysadvocate localization leaders to
start.
Change the conversation awayfrom strictly operational
(03:11):
towards more of a strategicconversation.
Antoine Rey (03:15):
Yeah, and there's like redefining about a few
conversations this week actuallywith companies that say like
they've had to redefine the KPIsand the metrics that they're
looking at and keeping what youtalk about here, like as word
rates or number of languagesvolumes, you know is important
from an operational perspective,but redefining KPIs around
(03:37):
probably more customeracquisition, customer retention,
SEO, net, new customers therefrom like an organic perspective
.
Kevin O'Donnell (03:47):
100%.
So you think about at the endof the year what the CEO will
celebrate a success for thecompany.
You want to be able to map yourlocalization work and your
contribution to that success andit's very difficult for anybody
to map the amount of words youtranslate.
Even if it's a million words,10 million words, it's hard to
know exactly how that relates tocompany growth or more revenue.
(04:11):
It's easier if you can tie thatspecifically to the priority
markets you're working on, or wespent time working on marketing
localization and that increasedour marketing pipeline, or we
were able to increase ourcustomer satisfaction in these
particular markets due to ourwork.
Antoine Rey (04:40):
The other question I get a lot from a localization
manager is why is it importantto become more strategic rather
than a cost center operational?
Kevin O'Donnell (04:51):
Yeah, I think there's a couple of reasons why.
One is simply to become moreinfluential, to have a bigger
impact in the company, and mostpeople who are ambitious in
their career they want to put astamp on their role in the
company.
There is more you can do.
I think you want to use yourpotential.
Secondly, I would say thinkingabout growing the career of
(05:12):
people in your team, people whoare ambitious and want to expand
their skill set, become moreinfluential, gain more
experiences.
This is a great way to do this.
Localization is a nice entrypoint towards product management
or towards marketing or towardscustomer success, and so, by
stretching the limit of whatyou're responsible for, that's a
(05:34):
great way to start doing that.
And then finally, maybesomewhat of a defensive strategy
, is that localization can be atrisk to be outsourced.
And if you are purely viewed asan operational or transactional
team, even if you're veryefficient and highly successful
at that, if you are a black box,then that black box could be
(05:54):
outsourced to a third party,whereas if you're seen as a
strategic driver for yourcompany and an asset for
different internal teams, thenit's easier to make the case for
expanding the team and levelingup that team.
Antoine Rey (06:08):
Yeah, and you're probably also in the process
providing different careerprogression paths, I guess, for
employees.
Kevin O'Donnell (06:17):
Oh, completely yeah, and that's often a
challenge at localization teams.
Somebody who's been in the teamfive, six years.
They might have done everythingin the team.
Where do they go next?
And there's not always thoseentry points or pathways towards
another career, and this is agreat way to do that.
Antoine Rey (06:33):
I'd like to talk as well about, like go-to-market
strategy, like this functionseems to be becoming a more
established part of manycompanies, yet when it comes to
international, they seem to fallbehind.
Kevin O'Donnell (06:53):
Yeah, I think gap is the word here and I think
it's an awareness gap more thananything.
So if you talk to a lot ofcompanies that originated in the
US or don't have a stronginternational DNA, then the
design, the research, theproduct planning tends to be
very US-centric.
And if you ask why or youpenetrate through that, it's
(07:15):
usually because of a lack ofawareness.
They don't understand what theneeds of customers
internationally are.
They don't know the differentnuances and what's needed.
Localization teams are ideal tofill this gap.
They have the connection.
They understand internationalrequirements.
They understand the nuancesneeded for different countries.
So it's an ideal way to step inand to be helpful.
(07:39):
So a great way to start issimply to walk through your
product, to do a screencast.
Walk through your product inanother language, pick Japanese
or pick Portuguese, a languagewhere you can demonstrate some
of the gaps it might betranslation gaps, it might be
user experience gaps andidentify the pitfalls that
(07:59):
customers in this market mightencounter.
So, for example, it could bethe payment method.
We only support credit card andthe country we're testing
credit card is not a commonlyused payment method.
Maybe we only charge in USdollars.
Maybe we don't support some ofthe sign-in methods used in that
market.
If you can identify some ofthese, then you can link it to
(08:22):
some of the key metrics thatgo-to-market teams care about
Paid conversion rate, retentionrate and you can start giving
the solution to your growthteams and your marketing teams
and your product teams and saywe have identified some problems
, but what's better is we knowhow to fix it and we're going to
give you some of the tools ofhow that can be fixed.
(08:43):
And that's the way you canbecome a constructive ally for
your go-to-market team and youcan say we will fill that gap
for you in go-to-market and wecan be your international
resource.
Antoine Rey (08:55):
So how do you promote those services?
Because usually what I see isthat those go-to-market team
don't necessarily by defaultcome to the localization team
for those services.
They think localization is justthey're just going to translate
our stuff.
So how do you advertise orevangelize those services to
(09:17):
those teams?
Kevin O'Donnell (09:18):
It's a tricky one for sure, because it goes
back to the first point.
Localization doesn't have areputation often for
participating in these types ofconversations.
It's very, very transactional.
So there's a few ways it can bedone.
Sometimes you just need to finda good partner.
To start with a partner whereyou've cultivated a great
relationship.
It might be with your marketingcounterpart.
(09:39):
The next time you get a requestto say, translate a Gartner
report, while you can do thatand you probably should do that
it could be good to dig in alittle bit and to ask why do you
need this translated?
What are you going to measurein terms of success for this?
And the answer is probably well, we're trying to grow our
international pipeline, we'retrying to get more marketing
(10:01):
qualified leads, and we think bytranslating this we will get it
.
That's a good opportunity togive some alternative ideas, to
say, well, we can do that forsure, but actually you're
missing something.
Your marketing campaign is notwell optimized for Italy.
We think you could spend yourbudget better by doing an
experiment and improving yourcampaign in Italy, and here we
(10:24):
can help you with that.
So almost by finding a smallexample of where you can be a
valuable partner for somethingthat's going to help a problem.
That's an in-road you can get.
Similarly for support teams.
You might localize help centercontent all the time and that's
a pretty typical thing to do.
But really what support teamswant is happy customers and they
(10:46):
want to increase customersuccess rates and satisfaction.
There might be more you can doto improve that.
Rather than simply fulfill atranslation request, you might
say well, let's talk about wherethe gaps are.
Maybe we could improve thelocalization messages on our
chat support on the website.
We can work with you on that.
Antoine Rey (11:06):
I kind of like your idea internally of doing a
product walkthrough into adifferent language to your
internal stakeholders to showsome of the issues or the
potential gaps there.
But that's one aspect on theinside of your own organization,
you know.
But how do you become like kindof like?
The other side is how do youbecome kind of a champion for
(11:27):
international customers, Like ifyour go-to market team, for
whatever reason, is not talkingto international customers?
Is that a role thatlocalization can fulfill and
help with?
Kevin O'Donnell (11:38):
I think they should try.
I think absolutely In everyrole I've had in different
companies, I've always had tofight to talk to customers and
often there are gatekeepersbecause they want to be careful
of protecting customerrelationships.
So I think if there's agatekeeper in your organization,
you want to try to make thatconnection and say, well, I'd
(11:59):
like to understand theexperience of our customers in
Germany or in Argentina.
I say, can I talk to some ofthem or can I listen into a
conversation?
And by hearing thatconversation it might be
somebody in sales or customersuccess or in the research team.
If you can start listening inand hearing customers directly,
(12:22):
then you're going to startpiecing together their
experiences and you can thenchampion that.
If you can't talk to themstraight away, well, let's look
at some survey results or someof the responses we get from
customer support queries and bytelling the story of
international customers you canthen celebrate them and become
their champion.
(12:43):
And in most companies I'veworked with there is a huge gap.
It's not like everybody else istalking to international
customers.
So if you put your hand up andsay, I want to do this, I want
to carve out a couple of hours amonth to do that.
It will usually be welcomed,and particularly if then you can
package it up to a nice reportor a nice description to say
here's what I found.
Here are some of the ways ourproduct is failing to meet their
(13:07):
needs in certain markets, orhere's where they have
interesting use cases we may notknow about.
And then you're giving someinteresting, constructive
feedback that is brand new forproduct teams or research teams.
So you're being additive andconstructive.
Antoine Rey (13:34):
And this is more than just reading and analyzing
customer surveys and data thatmight have been gathered in a
different way.
It is actually talking to yourinternational customers, is it?
Kevin O'Donnell (13:39):
If possible.
I think it's worth thinkingabout what would be the ideal
case.
The ideal case would be thelocalization team is a full
stack team, partnered with everyinternal team and talking to
customers, and that might be astretch, but if that's the ideal
, there are ways you can performelements of that job.
So perhaps you can listen into aconversation with your sales
(14:00):
team that are talking tocustomers internationally and
then, when you're listening in,you might be taking notes and
after doing 10 of these calls,you might have gathered a couple
of insights that you can thenshare back to sales leadership
or to marketing and say here'swhat I've noticed by listening
into some of our internationalcustomer calls and you may not
know this and you're givingsomething new.
So there's definitely inroadsand I think it's worth pushing
(14:26):
the boundary of what you do as alocalization team and any of
these activities.
They're typically outside ofyour day job, but it's a nice
way to start changing thenarrative around what
localization does and evensimply by joining a customer
conversation, your sales team oryour marketing team are going
to look at you differently.
They're going to think aboutinviting you again next time.
Antoine Rey (14:48):
Natural elevation.
That's good.
I like it.
Well listen, Kevin.
Thanks very much for all theseinsightful tips and advice.
I think a lot of people who arelistening to this podcast will
benefit from that and will makesure also to share your details
if they want to get in contactdirectly to work with you.
They're more than welcome to dothat.
So, again, thanks very much forparticipating in this podcast
(15:10):
and we'll see you again soon.
Kevin O'Donnell (15:11):
Fantastic.
Thanks for having me, Antoine.
Hi everyone.
I'm Antoine Rey and I will beyour host today for this Global
Ambitions podcast episode.
And today my guest is KevinO'Donnell.
Kevin has worked inlocalization capacity at many
multinational companies,including Dropbox, Nitro and
Microsoft.
He's now an independentconsultant in international and
gross expansion.
Kevin, welcome to the program.
Kevin O'Donnell (00:39):
Thank you, Antoine, great to speak with you
today.
Antoine Rey (00:41):
So you've made a career turn there recently and
you're now consulting for anumber of organizations.
But, based on your experience,both on the consulting side and
with your previous companies,one of the main questions that
I'm hearing from a lot oflocalization managers is how can
we become more strategic in ourorganization?
(01:01):
How can we move away from beinga cost center to a strategic
revenue contributor, forinstance?
And so it's trying to give thelisteners here some practical
steps and maybe trying to avoidcertain pitfalls.
And why is it important?
Why do they fail?
Why do they succeed in that?
Kevin O'Donnell (01:21):
Yeah, I love this question because it's such
a common phenomenon wherelocalization teams are often
characterized as purely a costcenter, and I think that
undersells and underutilizestheir assets, and I think
they're one of the mostunderutilized assets in any
organization.
I think it needs to start witha mindset change from
(01:42):
localization leaders themselves.
I think they need to movebeyond their remit of delivering
a localized product and thinkabout how they can become a
growth driver for theirorganization, and some of the
ways this can be challenged isby changing how you talk about
localization in an organization.
So many localization teams willhighlight how many words
(02:06):
they've localized, what theircost per word is, what their
turnaround time is all importantmetrics but when you're talking
to senior leaders in anorganization, they don't
understand the context of that,they don't map that to company
growth, and so there's adisconnect there.
So if you talk aboutlocalization in terms of
(02:27):
transactional metrics andoperational attributes, you are
limiting the scope of yourconversation.
So I think the first imperativeis to change the conversation
to start talking aboutlocalization in strategic terms.
So map it to what the companycares about.
So that might be globalexpansion, it might be more
(02:48):
monthly active users, it mightbe a better revenue share
internationally compared to theUS.
So if you understand what thecompany cares about, then start
talking about outcomes insteadof outputs for your own
localization team.
So that's where I would alwaysadvocate localization leaders to
start.
Change the conversation awayfrom strictly operational
(03:11):
towards more of a strategicconversation.
Antoine Rey (03:15):
Yeah, and there's like redefining about a few
conversations this week actuallywith companies that say like
they've had to redefine the KPIsand the metrics that they're
looking at and keeping what youtalk about here, like as word
rates or number of languagesvolumes, you know is important
from an operational perspective,but redefining KPIs around
(03:37):
probably more customeracquisition, customer retention,
SEO, net, new customers therefrom like an organic perspective
.
Kevin O'Donnell (03:47):
100%.
So you think about at the endof the year what the CEO will
celebrate a success for thecompany.
You want to be able to map yourlocalization work and your
contribution to that success andit's very difficult for anybody
to map the amount of words youtranslate.
Even if it's a million words,10 million words, it's hard to
know exactly how that relates tocompany growth or more revenue.
(04:11):
It's easier if you can tie thatspecifically to the priority
markets you're working on, or wespent time working on marketing
localization and that increasedour marketing pipeline, or we
were able to increase ourcustomer satisfaction in these
particular markets due to ourwork.
Antoine Rey (04:40):
The other question I get a lot from a localization
manager is why is it importantto become more strategic rather
than a cost center operational?
Kevin O'Donnell (04:51):
Yeah, I think there's a couple of reasons why.
One is simply to become moreinfluential, to have a bigger
impact in the company, and mostpeople who are ambitious in
their career they want to put astamp on their role in the
company.
There is more you can do.
I think you want to use yourpotential.
Secondly, I would say thinkingabout growing the career of
(05:12):
people in your team, people whoare ambitious and want to expand
their skill set, become moreinfluential, gain more
experiences.
This is a great way to do this.
Localization is a nice entrypoint towards product management
or towards marketing or towardscustomer success, and so, by
stretching the limit of whatyou're responsible for, that's a
(05:34):
great way to start doing that.
And then finally, maybesomewhat of a defensive strategy
, is that localization can be atrisk to be outsourced.
And if you are purely viewed asan operational or transactional
team, even if you're veryefficient and highly successful
at that, if you are a black box,then that black box could be
(05:54):
outsourced to a third party,whereas if you're seen as a
strategic driver for yourcompany and an asset for
different internal teams, thenit's easier to make the case for
expanding the team and levelingup that team.
Antoine Rey (06:08):
Yeah, and you're probably also in the process
providing different careerprogression paths, I guess, for
employees.
Kevin O'Donnell (06:17):
Oh, completely yeah, and that's often a
challenge at localization teams.
Somebody who's been in the teamfive, six years.
They might have done everythingin the team.
Where do they go next?
And there's not always thoseentry points or pathways towards
another career, and this is agreat way to do that.
Antoine Rey (06:33):
I'd like to talk as well about, like go-to-market
strategy, like this functionseems to be becoming a more
established part of manycompanies, yet when it comes to
international, they seem to fallbehind.
Kevin O'Donnell (06:53):
Yeah, I think gap is the word here and I think
it's an awareness gap more thananything.
So if you talk to a lot ofcompanies that originated in the
US or don't have a stronginternational DNA, then the
design, the research, theproduct planning tends to be
very US-centric.
And if you ask why or youpenetrate through that, it's
(07:15):
usually because of a lack ofawareness.
They don't understand what theneeds of customers
internationally are.
They don't know the differentnuances and what's needed.
Localization teams are ideal tofill this gap.
They have the connection.
They understand internationalrequirements.
They understand the nuancesneeded for different countries.
So it's an ideal way to step inand to be helpful.
(07:39):
So a great way to start issimply to walk through your
product, to do a screencast.
Walk through your product inanother language, pick Japanese
or pick Portuguese, a languagewhere you can demonstrate some
of the gaps it might betranslation gaps, it might be
user experience gaps andidentify the pitfalls that
(07:59):
customers in this market mightencounter.
So, for example, it could bethe payment method.
We only support credit card andthe country we're testing
credit card is not a commonlyused payment method.
Maybe we only charge in USdollars.
Maybe we don't support some ofthe sign-in methods used in that
market.
If you can identify some ofthese, then you can link it to
(08:22):
some of the key metrics thatgo-to-market teams care about
Paid conversion rate, retentionrate and you can start giving
the solution to your growthteams and your marketing teams
and your product teams and saywe have identified some problems
, but what's better is we knowhow to fix it and we're going to
give you some of the tools ofhow that can be fixed.
(08:43):
And that's the way you canbecome a constructive ally for
your go-to-market team and youcan say we will fill that gap
for you in go-to-market and wecan be your international
resource.
Antoine Rey (08:55):
So how do you promote those services?
Because usually what I see isthat those go-to-market team
don't necessarily by defaultcome to the localization team
for those services.
They think localization is justthey're just going to translate
our stuff.
So how do you advertise orevangelize those services to
(09:17):
those teams?
Kevin O'Donnell (09:18):
It's a tricky one for sure, because it goes
back to the first point.
Localization doesn't have areputation often for
participating in these types ofconversations.
It's very, very transactional.
So there's a few ways it can bedone.
Sometimes you just need to finda good partner.
To start with a partner whereyou've cultivated a great
relationship.
It might be with your marketingcounterpart.
(09:39):
The next time you get a requestto say, translate a Gartner
report, while you can do thatand you probably should do that
it could be good to dig in alittle bit and to ask why do you
need this translated?
What are you going to measurein terms of success for this?
And the answer is probably well, we're trying to grow our
international pipeline, we'retrying to get more marketing
(10:01):
qualified leads, and we think bytranslating this we will get it
.
That's a good opportunity togive some alternative ideas, to
say, well, we can do that forsure, but actually you're
missing something.
Your marketing campaign is notwell optimized for Italy.
We think you could spend yourbudget better by doing an
experiment and improving yourcampaign in Italy, and here we
(10:24):
can help you with that.
So almost by finding a smallexample of where you can be a
valuable partner for somethingthat's going to help a problem.
That's an in-road you can get.
Similarly for support teams.
You might localize help centercontent all the time and that's
a pretty typical thing to do.
But really what support teamswant is happy customers and they
(10:46):
want to increase customersuccess rates and satisfaction.
There might be more you can doto improve that.
Rather than simply fulfill atranslation request, you might
say well, let's talk about wherethe gaps are.
Maybe we could improve thelocalization messages on our
chat support on the website.
We can work with you on that.
Antoine Rey (11:06):
I kind of like your idea internally of doing a
product walkthrough into adifferent language to your
internal stakeholders to showsome of the issues or the
potential gaps there.
But that's one aspect on theinside of your own organization,
you know.
But how do you become like kindof like?
The other side is how do youbecome kind of a champion for
(11:27):
international customers, Like ifyour go-to market team, for
whatever reason, is not talkingto international customers?
Is that a role thatlocalization can fulfill and
help with?
Kevin O'Donnell (11:38):
I think they should try.
I think absolutely In everyrole I've had in different
companies, I've always had tofight to talk to customers and
often there are gatekeepersbecause they want to be careful
of protecting customerrelationships.
So I think if there's agatekeeper in your organization,
you want to try to make thatconnection and say, well, I'd
(11:59):
like to understand theexperience of our customers in
Germany or in Argentina.
I say, can I talk to some ofthem or can I listen into a
conversation?
And by hearing thatconversation it might be
somebody in sales or customersuccess or in the research team.
If you can start listening inand hearing customers directly,
(12:22):
then you're going to startpiecing together their
experiences and you can thenchampion that.
If you can't talk to themstraight away, well, let's look
at some survey results or someof the responses we get from
customer support queries and bytelling the story of
international customers you canthen celebrate them and become
their champion.
(12:43):
And in most companies I'veworked with there is a huge gap.
It's not like everybody else istalking to international
customers.
So if you put your hand up andsay, I want to do this, I want
to carve out a couple of hours amonth to do that.
It will usually be welcomed,and particularly if then you can
package it up to a nice reportor a nice description to say
here's what I found.
Here are some of the ways ourproduct is failing to meet their
(13:07):
needs in certain markets, orhere's where they have
interesting use cases we may notknow about.
And then you're giving someinteresting, constructive
feedback that is brand new forproduct teams or research teams.
So you're being additive andconstructive.
Antoine Rey (13:34):
And this is more than just reading and analyzing
customer surveys and data thatmight have been gathered in a
different way.
It is actually talking to yourinternational customers, is it?
Kevin O'Donnell (13:39):
If possible.
I think it's worth thinkingabout what would be the ideal
case.
The ideal case would be thelocalization team is a full
stack team, partnered with everyinternal team and talking to
customers, and that might be astretch, but if that's the ideal
, there are ways you can performelements of that job.
So perhaps you can listen into aconversation with your sales
(14:00):
team that are talking tocustomers internationally and
then, when you're listening in,you might be taking notes and
after doing 10 of these calls,you might have gathered a couple
of insights that you can thenshare back to sales leadership
or to marketing and say here'swhat I've noticed by listening
into some of our internationalcustomer calls and you may not
know this and you're givingsomething new.
So there's definitely inroadsand I think it's worth pushing
(14:26):
the boundary of what you do as alocalization team and any of
these activities.
They're typically outside ofyour day job, but it's a nice
way to start changing thenarrative around what
localization does and evensimply by joining a customer
conversation, your sales team oryour marketing team are going
to look at you differently.
They're going to think aboutinviting you again next time.
Antoine Rey (14:48):
Natural elevation.
That's good.
I like it.
Well listen, Kevin.
Thanks very much for all theseinsightful tips and advice.
I think a lot of people who arelistening to this podcast will
benefit from that and will makesure also to share your details
if they want to get in contactdirectly to work with you.
They're more than welcome to dothat.
So, again, thanks very much forparticipating in this podcast
(15:10):
and we'll see you again soon.
Kevin O'Donnell (15:11):
Fantastic.
Thanks for having me, Antoine.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.