November 5, 2024 • 46 mins
How does vital signs monitoring address neonatal mortality in low-income countries? What challenges do medical device startups face, especially in regulated healthcare environments?
In this interview, Sona Shah, CEO of Neopenda, walks us through her personal journey from studying chemical engineering at Georgia Tech to creating impactful healthcare solutions while navigating the complexities of medical device development. She shares her experiences teaching in Kenya, working in pharma, and meeting her co-founder Tess at Columbia University. The conversation delves deep into the challenges of launching a healthcare startup, the importance of culturally sensitive design, and critical business decisions such as choosing a for-profit model and restructuring the team during COVID-19. Sona provides valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs driven to solve urgent healthcare problems.
Takeaways:
- Sona Shah's journey from engineering to healthcare highlights the importance of cultural sensitivity in medical device design.
- Neopenda was founded to address neonatal mortality in low-income countries with innovative monitoring solutions.
- The challenges of launching a healthcare startup include navigating regulatory hurdles and securing funding.
- COVID-19 opened opportunities for Neopenda to adapt its device for adult and pediatric patients.
- Creating a sustainable business model is crucial for balancing profitability with social impact in healthcare.
- Restructuring during tough times can lead to stronger teams and better company performance in the long run.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hey, it's Hetal with theGlobal Health Pursuit podcast.
Today's episode is all aboutinnovation, resilience and the power
of bringing healthcare to themost underserved communities.
For this episode, I spoke withSona Shah, CEO of Neopenda, a medical
device company that'stransforming healthcare access in
(00:25):
low income countries withaffordable life saving technology.
So if you're an aspiringentrepreneur or just passionate about
solving urgent healthcareproblems, Sona's story and advice
are going to be pure gold.
Her journey started at GeorgiaTech, studying chemical engineering
(00:46):
and took her across the worldto Kenya where she saw firsthand
the gaps in healthcare.
This experience sparked thebeginning of Neopenda and along the
way she met her co founderTess at Columbia University.
Together they've beennavigating the complex world of medical
device innovation for emerging markets.
(01:08):
In this episode we get to diveinto real world challenges of launching
a healthcare startup,especially one focused on life saving
devices for infants.
From navigating regulatoryhurdles to choosing a for profit
model, to restructuring their team.
During COVID 19, Sona sharesher insight on the highs and lows
(01:32):
of running a healthcare company.
She also opens up about howculturally sensitive design plays
a huge role in creatingsolutions that truly fit the needs
of the communities Neopenda serves.
My name is Heathal Bauman andwelcome to the Global Health Pursuit,
a podcast for those curiousabout public health, global impact
(01:53):
and inspiring people who aremaking a difference.
So make sure you'resubscribed, leave a 5 star review
if you're enjoying the showand share this episode with someone
who might find it valuable.
Every listen and every sharehelps this podcast reach more people
who care about global health.
Also, just a reminder, ifyou're in the US and if you're listening
(02:15):
when this episode is beingdropped November 5, 2024, you probably
know what day it is.
Election day.
Every vote counts, so go outand vote.
Sona, it's so good to finallyget you on the podcast.
I have been trying to get youon the podcast for like couple years
(02:37):
now.
I know life has been prettycrazy I think for all of us.
This interview is specialbecause I've known you for a little
while now.
We both did our graduateschool at Columbia University and
we met through a design coursetaught by Dr.
Katie Reuther and she'sapparently on your board now at Neaganda.
(03:03):
So that is really, really cool.
I want to start this interviewjust kind of going back, you know,
going back to just thebeginnings of what Neopanda was like.
Where did you even get the idea.
Yeah, thanks so much forhaving me.
It's an honor to be here.
(03:23):
If it's okay, I might actuallystart from when I graduated with
my undergrad degrees, I wentto Georgia Tech for chemical engineering.
I graduated a semester earlyand decided why not travel a bit.
I was always drawn towardskind of volunteering and helping
people, but didn't really knowwhat I wanted to do with that beyond,
you know, clubs at school.
So right after I graduated, Iwent to Western Kenya, and I was
(03:47):
a primary school teacher.
I did not know that.
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
That's kind of whereinternational development started
for me.
I just randomly ended up in asmall town in Western Kenya, and
I was walking 40 minutes a dayto get to the school, and I was teaching
math and science and English, mostly.
I taught one day of Swahili,and that didn't end well.
(04:09):
No word of Swahili, but, youknow, that's fine.
Um, kids ended up learning.
Uh, but anyway, I was therefor several months and just really,
really loved it.
Everything about the cultureand community was incredible, except
for the inequities that I wasfortunate not to have growing up.
And that really stuck with me.
(04:30):
I.
When I came back to the US Ihad a job lined up in pharmacy, and
so I worked in bioprocessresearch and development and really
loved my time there.
I was in engineering.
I was working with largebioreactors, actually using that
engineering background,learning about product process development,
regulatory inequality, and theimportance of that in the healthcare
industry.
I got to see quite a fewmedications coming through the pipeline
(04:53):
as all the drugs we werecreating were going through clinical
trials.
A really fun atmosphere, avery comfortable lifestyle.
But at some point, I realizedthat the kids that I taught in Kenya
would maybe never see themedications that I was helping make.
That drove me back to graduate school.
Columbia, as you mentioned.
And I specifically picked itfor a couple of different reasons.
(05:13):
And I started working in a labthat was creating a point of care
diagnostic for HIV and syphilis.
Wanted to get more into therealm of biomedical engineering,
and more specifically, how canwe provide equitable access to healthcare
around the world.
I also picked it for theaccess to a ton of nonprofits.
In New York.
I interned at the TB alliance,both in community engagement, which
(05:34):
was totally outside of myexpertise, but loved expanding my
horizons there, and also indrug discoveries.
And then I took the biodesigncourse that you mentioned with Dr.
Katie Reuther, and that'swhere we started Neopendis.
I have a lot of thanks and alot of my career journey is thanks
to Dr.
Reuthers.
Thank you for everything thatyou've done.
And I would encourage anybodyto go through a bio design course
(05:56):
because it really does startthe fundamentals of biodesign and
how to, you know, what seemsintuitive of start with a problem
and then create cool tech tohelp solve the problem, opposed to
vice versa.
But a lot of our fundamentalsreally stemmed from that course.
That is so helpful.
I totally did not know thatyou spent some time in Kenya.
(06:17):
I mean, it speaks to whatyou're doing today.
During that time, youmentioned that, you know, while you
were working inpharmaceutical, you had this kind
of realization that thesemedicines most likely will not reach
the kids that you taught in Kenya.
(06:37):
Where were the otherinequities that you saw when you
were there?
Yeah, while I was in Kenya,there's kind of a whole host of inequities.
It was full of this beautifuland warm culture, A life without
as many expectations.
I think here in the U.S.
you know, we don't have hotwater in the shower and in the morning,
(06:58):
and it's the worst day in the world.
And, you know, being there, itjust makes you realize what's really
important to you.
And for a lot of the peoplethere, it was family, Do I have food
on my table?
The culture in the community,and in many cases, religion for them.
So there were a lot of basicnecessities that I think they focused
a lot more on, which I thinkis not an inequity that is far advanced
(07:21):
than, you know, what most ofus, including myself, grew up with.
But that does also contributeto detrimental effects in healthcare.
For example, one of my kidswhile I was there had a seizure,
and she fell to the ground,and she was foaming at the mouth.
And in.
In their culture, it wasessentially spirits that were taking
(07:42):
over her.
And so they wouldn't let metake her to a hospital where we knew
that she would be able to getbetter care.
And so there was this wholecultural shift that, you know, I.
I physically could not takethis child to a hospital when she
desperately needed that.
And so some of it was kind ofthe education piece of it, how things
were taught in the education system.
(08:03):
I think there's a lot ofreform that is needed.
There's a lot of really greatthings that are taught in schools.
In where I was, a lot of thefemales didn't go past primary school.
It was kind of their job,their duty to get married and have
children.
And that was kind of theirgoal in life, which is a great goal
for many that wasn't my goalgrowing up.
(08:24):
And so I think just even thepresence of being there as a female
kind of getting out there anddoing something different was the
impact that I made.
I think when I went into thisI was a naive American that thought
I can change the world.
And then I walked awaythinking I don't know if I actually
did anything.
What it did do was open myeyes to an entirely new culture and
(08:47):
community and how a lot of theworld lives.
That just the exposure isreally what was fundamental for me.
Yeah, I mean, I also talkabout this reverse culture shock
that we kind of experiencewhen we come back from an experience
like that because we tend tohave our perspectives kind of opened
up and then we start askingquestions about like why is it that
(09:12):
we live this way and they livethat way.
Another thing that I wanted tomention, I know you touched on that
little girl having a seizureand how epilepsy in a lot of countries
have this stigma aroundspirits and you know, run away, you're
going to catch it.
I actually did a three partepisode with Tigo Daniel Joyem on
(09:35):
literally this.
So that's episodes 34 to 36.
So if you want to learn moreabout that, go and listen to that.
It's definitely veryfascinating and you know, I think
highlights a lot of theimportance of Western methodologies
don't work everywhere.
You can't come in with amindset of what works in one community
(09:55):
will definitively work inanother community.
And you know, as much as Iwanted to take the child to the hospital,
that's not how it was done there.
And but at the same time youhave to be culturally sensitive and
appropriate and know whereyour limits are and to know how can
you design and developsomething that actually works within
a community and not imposingyour own personal beliefs on somebody
thing.
(10:16):
Yeah.
And I mean there's a, there'sa line, right.
There's the white saviorismkind of.
I mean we're Indian, but stillthere's like concept.
Yeah, the concept works inthat sense too.
It's just how do you do thingsintentionally and sensitively in
a country like that?
Now, going back to the designcourse, where did the idea stem for
(10:40):
Neopenda and what was the needthat you were trying to tackle?
So when we originally startedthe biodesign course, Dr.
Aaron Kyle, who's anotherprofessor actually on our advisory
board as well, challenged usto think about during this course.
Why is newborn mortality somuch higher in low and middle income
countries than in the us?
(11:00):
There truly are about Amillion problems that contribute
to this.
But that was kind of thestarting point.
We were tasked with thinkingabout this.
We were drawn towards kind ofvital signs.
Monitoring it has beensomething that many teams had worked
on for a while and identifiedas a need.
But we didn't truly understandwhat problem are we addressing until
we actually went out to Ugandaand did more of a needs assessment.
(11:23):
And so, you know, we fastforward a little bit and then I'll
get back to the biodesign course.
But after the course, weactually entered into the Columbia
Venture competition.
And it's really fun to go backto that pitch deck because at least
now I know we've come a reallylong way since the deck, but it was
at least good enough to beable to get $10,000 from the university.
(11:43):
And that was really kind ofthe initial seed funding.
And that was when Tess and Idecided there's only so much we could
do from a lab in New York.
We really needed to get outthere and understand what are these
issues.
So we used that funding, wentto Uganda and we did a more proper
needs assessment.
And this was kind of post course.
And so we had done a lot ofthe biodesign elements.
(12:04):
But again, I think trulyunderstanding the problem didn't
really happen until a littlebit later.
When we were in country andwhen we were in Uganda.
What we had seen is a coupleof different things.
The first is we kind of toureddifferent public and private facilities
across the country trying tounderstand what are the most pressing
(12:24):
issues.
And the biggest thing that wehad seen was that these hospitals
didn't have functioningmedical equipment.
They had rooms or fields thatnurses literally call the equipment
graveyard.
It's exactly kind of whatyou're picturing or exactly what
it sounds like.
It's just mounds of devicesthat are sitting there broken because
nobody has really thoughtabout the constraints of 85% of the
(12:46):
world's population.
And we just design medicaldevices for countries like the US
where power instability ordust getting into our devices or
humidity constraints aren'treally as much of an issue.
And so that's really when wecommitted ourselves to Neopenda and,
you know, spinning it out ofthe university and into a fully fledged
(13:06):
startup to design medtech thatfunctions anywhere in the world.
Our roots were and still arein neonatal mortality and trying
to understand what those bigissues are.
And so most of our time wasspent in the neonatal wards trying
to understand what are thebiggest problems that these nurses
have.
It's quite a daunting thingbecause you go into the hospitals
(13:27):
and hospitals need medical equipment.
Clinicians need devices to beable to deliver the highest levels
of care that are needed forthese patients.
Um, it's just a detriment thatthese patients don't have access
to that.
The clinicians don't haveaccess to that.
And so they're the ones thatare really suffering from this strain.
So one of the biggest issuesthat we saw was that there were just
(13:50):
too many critically illpatients and not enough nurses to
care for them.
I think the first ward that wehad gone to, I just remember this
gut wrenching feeling walkingout of the ward because there were
150 babies in this ward.
Some were on tables, there wasan open drawer of a desk and there
was a baby inside.
And so there.
It's just a massive ward withtoo many patients.
(14:12):
And there were two nurses.
Two.
How are they supposed to knowwhich babies actually need their
attention?
Compare that to your NICUshere in the US where maybe it's a
ratio of two babies, threebabies at most, for one nurse.
The hospital that I mentionedis kind of on the extreme.
It's more of a government facility.
So there's a lot more patients there.
(14:32):
But you get the picture, notenough nurses.
They don't have the tools toreally identify patients in distress.
That is really the problemthat we wanted to help solve is how
do we leverage technology toalert clinicians when a patient needs
their attention so now theycan provide more timely and appropriate
treatment to the patients thatreally need it.
And that is kind of the rootof the problem that we wanted to
(14:55):
help solve.
That lent itself well to avital signs monitoring, which is
what we created as our first product.
Yeah, I mean, you touched on alot of things there, especially the
equipment.
Graveyard.
Right.
I think it was like 85% ofmedical devices are designed for
high income countries.
I think that's what the stat was.
(15:15):
And you worked at apharmaceutical company, I worked
at a medical device company.
And what happens is once wehave a new generation of a device,
we'll donate or throw outwhatever we had.
It's almost like you're wipingyour hands clean.
Like, okay, we just donated abunch of stuff.
(15:39):
And for you to create amedical device that is designed around
the limitations andconstraints that a hospital ward
in Uganda have.
Like, you know, humidity.
Humidity is a big thing.
Yeah.
(15:59):
Dust, insects, all of thatkind of stuff.
I even, I did an interviewwith somebody who told me that the
doctor that they worked withwould wash his gloves and then hang
them up to dry for the next day.
And it's like, okay, have youthought about that?
So what I wanted to go nextis, okay, you decided that you wanted
(16:24):
to start Neopenda.
Was that always your goal to,like, become an entrepreneur?
Like, what.
What did you think?
Going to Columbia University,doing your master's.
What did you think you weregoing to end up doing?
Honestly, I had no idea.
(16:45):
I think working in pharmaright after undergrad was such an
amazing experience.
I learned a lot about what I loved.
Engineering, healthcare, youknow, all of the elements of that.
But I also learned a lot aboutwhat I didn't love.
I don't like being one personin a big corporation.
I don't have the impact that Ithink I can have.
(17:05):
I thrive in a much smallerenvironment where I have a lot more
autonomy and I have a lot moreof the ability to shape and change
the course.
That is where I thrive a lot more.
I didn't know exactly what Iwanted, but I knew that I wanted
a change.
And it is really difficult togive up a really comfortable lifestyle
in corporate America where you.
(17:25):
I, you know, had a very activesocial circle, and I had my evenings
and weekends and all of thethings that we take for granted,
you know, now working at astartup, and it's a totally different
lifestyle.
And there's, you know, there'sa drastic differences in kind of
why I did what I did.
And maybe it was a little bitof craziness, but I think every entrepreneur
(17:48):
has a little bit of crazinessin them.
But going into Columbia, Ididn't know.
And that was a lot of thereason why I wanted to go there is
because I wanted to work inthis lab.
I wanted access to the nonprofits.
I wanted to be in such aninternational community to figure
out what I wanted to do.
I think I've always hadinspiration for an entrepreneurial
(18:09):
journey.
My dad started his own companybefore I was born, and it's an environmental
consulting company.
So totally different from whatI'm doing.
But I have so much morerespect now for the work that he's
done and being able to.
To really help it thrive and survive.
Over the past several decades,that spirit has always been built
in me.
(18:29):
I just didn't know it until Istarted the company.
When you go to thesecommunities and you see the gaps
and you see the problems andthe needs, you can't forget them.
There isn't an easy solutionto join a company that is working
to solve this.
I could probably count on onehand the number of medical device
companies that are trulyinvesting in Africa or Low and middle
(18:51):
income countries more broadly.
That's not okay.
We need to do better.
Me starting the companyalongside Tess.
I wouldn't have been able todo this without Tess right by my
side.
Um, but just having that is alot of the reason why we started
it.
It just didn't exist.
So we created our own.
(19:11):
Did you know Tess before?
Nope.
We met in grad school.
We met basically in thebiodesign course.
Biodesign is kind of where wereally met each other.
And I feel like that's reallyserendipitous, right.
To meet somebody who isequally as passionate about this
cause and make this company anactual thing.
(19:33):
That's so.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah, it's wild.
And I think you hear a lot ofhorror stories about founders, you
know, falling out or havingdifference of opinion.
And I can truly say that, youknow, I.
I've never felt that with Tess.
I think we are suchcomplimentary people in every sense
of the word.
I think our skill sets arevery diverse, but complementary.
(19:56):
The way that we think, the waythat we approach things is in many
cases quite opposite.
And that's what makes us sucha good pair, is that we're able to
bring different perspectivesand bring them together to come up
with something cohesive.
And so that's been strongsince day one.
Amazing.
I want to talk about the modelof Neopenda.
So when you think about socialimpact, a lot of times that comes
(20:22):
alongside nonprofits, right?
And when you first thoughtabout, okay, what is the model of
Neopenda going to be?
What went through your guys mind?
Because I'm sure you thoughtabout the model of being a nonprofit
(20:45):
medical advice company.
That definitely crossed our mind.
And if we go back to ourbiodesign roots, the first question
we asked is, what is abusiness model?
And so thankfully, the coursehelped us, you know, understand what
that actually means.
And you know, I think asengineers, even though we had a problem
and we had a great solution,you have to have a business model
(21:05):
to go alongside it.
Otherwise it's a meaninglesstechnology, even if that business
model is a nonprofit structure.
And so we certainly thoughtabout nonprofit, we thought about
for profit, we thought abouthybrid structure.
So there's many different waysthat companies can structure their
entity.
For us, sustainability isreally important.
(21:25):
We care equally about theprofitability as the impact that
we can have with our systems,because those go hand in hand.
The more devices we can sell,the more patients we can improve
quality of care for, and themore profitable we are as a company
that can then feed back intofuture Products as well.
So that's what lent itself waswell to a for profit structure.
(21:46):
I think there are a lot ofgreat organizations that are nonprofits.
Many of our partners are nonprofits.
For the medical industry inparticular, I see no reason to compromise
profitability and impact.
Both of those truly do go handin hand.
So when we were thinking aboutthe business model, we had gotten
advice from a lot of otherstartups that the hybrid structure
(22:08):
of nonprofit and for profit,it's great because you can attract
both grant funding andinvestment dollars, but it's a really
difficult structure to manage.
There's a lot of gray areabetween what are you using grant
funding for versus investment dollars.
And you have to have kind of alarger organization with clear lines
of what's the differencebetween the two.
(22:29):
And it just often gets blurred.
We didn't have the capacity asa two person team with engineering
background, not businessbackgrounds, to really be able to
kind of structure it that way.
So we went more towards thefor profit realm.
I think one of the keyelements for us is the nonprofit
model often lends itself todonation of equipment and that doesn't
(22:50):
seem to be quite as sustainable.
We've seen this shift in a lotof hospitals that we work with that
they used to attract a lot of,you know, medical devices that were
donated.
But it's human nature thatyou're not going to take care of
something that was free for you.
And so for us, even if we cansubsidize or even if we can, you
know, design affordabletechnologies, that was really the
(23:12):
key for us.
One of the biggest constraintsthat we have is affordability.
Um, but even if they can paysomething for it, there is a different
sense of ownership, there is adifferent sense of excitement over
a technology.
And for us, that is essentialfor success of the company.
That's not to say that othercompanies that are nonprofits aren't
doing great and aren't able tokind of sustain themselves that way.
(23:33):
But in our model, thesustainability aspect, profitability
is really important for us andis a way to drive more impact.
That reminds me of the bookToxic Charity talks about.
I would read it.
That sense of accountabilitythat people have.
I think there was a story inthere where there was a group that
(23:55):
wanted to donate clothes, butinstead what they did was they set
up a little shop and theydiscounted all of the items by like
90%.
Yep.
So that people came in andthey were actually able to afford
something like a gift orwhatever it was so that they could
(24:15):
feel proud that they actuallybought it.
And there's something to sayabout that for sure.
Yeah.
So talk about developing yourfirst product that's called NeoGuard
and then selling it.
Yeah.
So the development processtook longer than you expect.
(24:36):
I think this is true for any startup.
Double the time, double the money.
In our case it was maybetriple the time and triple the money,
but that's fine.
We learn and now we're a lotsmarter about it.
But early on there is a lotthat comes with medical devices which
is very different.
Healthcare in general is quitedifferent than many other industries
because it's so regulated forgood reason.
(24:57):
And so when we were developingthe NeoGuard system, we didn't just
have to create a system forNeoGuard, we had to create a design
and development process forall future products as well.
And so when we spent six yearsto get our first product to market,
it wasn't just to get NeoGuardto market, it was to create an actual
system that allows us toreplicate it for future products
(25:18):
as well.
You know, if you areinterested in healthcare and medical
devices, quality managementsystems and getting that set up early
on is so essential.
It is way too much money, butit is well worth it.
You should spend your money ondeveloping a quality management system.
We didn't do that until maybea couple years into our design and
development process.
(25:38):
We of course had designcontrols and other kind of basic
elements of it, but actuallycreating our QMS didn't happen until
a couple years in and we hadto kind of backtrack a bit and really
create all of our records andstructures around that.
But really creating a productthat is risk based and understanding
what are the potential failuremodes and harms, all of that should
(26:00):
really be built in from day one.
And so I think that was a lotof what we did for the first six
years is iteratively designingour solution with and for our users
and in the process alsocreating kind of a robust mechanism
to look at future products as well.
We didn't have the capacity todo it then, but we knew eventually
(26:20):
we would want to.
And so why create a oneproduct company when you can have
multiple products?
And so that was kind of partof the reason why it took us so long.
Understanding how to getregulatory clearance and what is
the process for that,conducting clinical trials.
There were just a lot ofelements of it and you know, some
of it was funding related.
We had to go through multiplecycles of funding because medical
(26:43):
device development is capitalintensive upfront and many investors
are risk averse for a varietyof reasons, including you're a regulated
Industry, you're working inhardware, you're working in Africa.
Most investors don'tunderstand at least one of those
three.
So a lot of our job had to beeducation of investors or grant funders.
(27:03):
We were, you know, quitesuccessful with getting grant funding
early on for the idea of thecompany and the solution that we
were creating.
But you know, it is prettycapital intensive for med devices.
And so that was the first sixyears when we finally got CE Mark,
which is the European versionof FDA clearance, that was in 2021.
(27:24):
And that led to our formallaunch in Kenya in Q3, Q4, 2021.
There are certainly distinctpoints in Neopenda's journey where
I've.
I'm reminded that this isn'tjust a classroom project.
This is real.
This is a device that is goingon patients and has the potential
to improve their life,potential to save their life in many
(27:46):
cases.
And getting CE Mark was one of them.
That this is our stamp ofapproval that we can go out there
and put devices in the handsof our users.
And of course that was alonger journey than we anticipated
as well.
We spent more time in productmarket fit than I had certainly anticipated.
And I think that's an areathat I would highly recommend other
(28:08):
entrepreneurs to just spend alot of time thinking about.
We had a beautiful go tomarket plan.
We had this robust idea ofwhat everything would look like.
But commercial use of productis always different than clinical
trials.
The more patients you're on,the more things you're going to see,
the more user feedback you'regoing to get, the more you'll have
to evaluate what is the targetcustomer and actually build a proper
(28:29):
sales organization.
So we spent maybe a year and ahalf after commercial launch, we,
you know, attracted somecustomers, we brought in a few customers,
we had devices on patients.
But we spent the better of ayear and a half really focusing on
product market fit, whichspanned from the product side and
making improvements based oncustomer feedback all the way through
(28:50):
customer side.
And what does our businessmodel look like and how do we actually
sell to organizations and thenonce we get it there, how do we make
sure that they're using it andusing it correctly and having the
impact that the system canactually have.
So it wasn't until about Q3last year that we really kind of
turned a corner with our sales.
And now I can very confidentlysay, like we have a robust sales
(29:11):
organization that iscontinuing to sell products not just
in Kenya, but in, in Ugandaand Ghana and then two more countries
later this year.
So it was definitely a journey.
And I think the year and ahalf that we spent on product market
fit was a really crucial yearand a half.
But it was full of trials and tribulation.
(29:31):
Can you explain what that term means?
Product market fit?
Yeah, means somethingdifferent to everybody.
And so does investor rounds.
Everybody has a different definition.
Early stage could be you're a$30 million company and you know,
that in my mind is not earlystage, but people have different
(29:53):
definitions.
So take this with a grain ofsalt, but in our mind, product market
fit is understanding.
One, who are the customersthat really need the product?
Two, what value does ourproduct actually serve them?
And three, is the productactually serving that value?
So really understanding andmaking sure that we can get products
into the hands of users andthey're utilizing product in the
(30:15):
way that we intend for it tobe used and it's having the impact
that we intend for it to have.
You know, as we continue inour journey, there will be another
phase of product market fit aswe expand into new geographies and
understand, okay, now we'vegot our first set of customers and
how do we scale this to abroader set of customers?
And then there will be a wholeproduct market fit phase again.
(30:37):
So it's a continuous journey.
It's never truly done, but forus, really getting kind of those
initial customers, makingthose product improvements, that
was kind of the biggest, youknow, stamp for us that we've achieved
product market fit.
So I wanted to ask, you know,in the very beginning it was you
and Tess and when did you seethe need to grow staff?
(31:00):
You know, because now you havea whole team behind Neopenda when,
like, where was the turningpoint there?
Pretty early on, I think,especially because Tess and I are
still based in the US we knewthat we needed to bring on local
team members.
So our very first hire was in Uganda.
(31:21):
That's where we had done a lotof our, you know, early clinical
trials, our early research in general.
And so very early on, webrought on a team member and she
was great.
She was incredible for what weneeded at the time.
And as we continued to evolveas a company, we brought on various
team members, primarily on theR and D side to begin with or the
(31:42):
research and clinical trial side.
So some of our longeststanding team members are really
on the R and D front.
You don't need a full salesteam when we're still in R and D
in the product.
And so there was kind of thatbalance between it.
I was doing a lot of thebusiness side of things alongside
Product development.
And so those are essential togo hand in hand.
(32:02):
But we didn't need a full teambehind that.
So yeah, we brought on a lotof our R and D and research clinical
trial team early on.
Just kind of the general dayto day operational aspects of things.
I think bringing on the R andD team is a tricky thing to evaluate
because creating a medicaldevice that has hardware and electronics
(32:24):
and plastics and software andfirmware and everything in between,
that requires many differenttypes of engineers.
It's not one person that cando everything, but you don't have
the money for everything.
And so we brought on a lot ofconsultants early on as well to help
with the heavy lifting as wekind of built our R and D team.
(32:45):
So that was the model that wehad used.
Bringing on consultants comeswith its own complexities that we
probably don't have enoughtime for to talk about all the complexities.
But I think it's a great wayto build your team.
There are just nuances aroundmanaging consultants and managing
expectations of whatconsultants can deliver and then
realizing that you might needto backtrack to really understand
(33:08):
how something was built or howcan we make improvements to something.
So that's a natural course of things.
But we did work with a lot ofpartners early on just to help make
sure that we could advancewithout having to bring on too many
full time team members.
Do you think that was maybethe most difficult thing to handle
in the very beginning of thefirst few years?
(33:32):
Yeah, I think there were anumber of difficult things to go
through.
I think just the fundingcycles were difficult and managing
that, having to balance, youknow, creating an entire company
while focusing on the first product.
There's just a lot of thingsto figure out and a lot of things
that you don't know.
We still don't know a lot of things.
(33:53):
We're a lot smarter than wewere, you know, seven years ago,
but there's still a lot thatwe don't know.
I have the ability now to hireexperts in the space and I can bring
on people that have expertise.
But early on, Tess and I hadto figure it out.
We had to figure out what doesit mean to have a quality management
system?
What does it mean to do voiceof customer informative testing?
(34:14):
What does it mean to do all ofthese things that we had no idea
how to do?
And I think our conviction andour mission was so strong that we
figured it out and we movedmountains to make it work.
But it is really difficult todo everything when you don't know
any of it.
Yeah, I've.
It's a completely new space.
(34:34):
You can take some things thatyou've learned at your previous job
or a company, but like yousaid, so many nuances.
I want to talk about whenCovid hit, what went on in your mind?
What was happening withNeopenda at the time?
And obviously it threw all ofus off the rails, but what had happened
(34:57):
throughout those couple years?
So, I mean, like many otherstartups had Covid.
When Covid hit, that was kindof a near death experience for Neopenda.
We've had a couple in ourjourney and thankfully we're not
in one right now, but we'vehad a couple and Covid was one of
them.
It was.
There were a lot of people, wehad funding committed and it got
(35:18):
pulled because of COVID Sothere's a lot of kind of external
factors, a lot of panic thatwas happening.
On the flip side of that, Ithink it really opened a lot of potential
opportunity for Neapunda as ahealthcare medical device company
that is creating a vital signs monitor.
I think the importance ofvital signs monitoring was much more
pronounced during COVID Somuch so that we actually adapted
(35:40):
our neonatal monitor for usein adult and pediatric patients.
So, you know, again, I thinkit opened up a lot of opportunities,
opportunities for us.
I no longer had to necessarilyexplain what is a pulse oximeter
to people.
That was kind of a little bitmore common knowledge, or at least
what is the importance ofvital signs monitoring?
That was more common knowledge.
I think our team, myselfcertainly included, felt a responsibility
(36:04):
to support because we had a solution.
You know, my family had Covidand we put our devices on them to
make sure that they were okay.
And, um, so there were, fromthe very basic levels all the way
through.
How can we help the city of Chicago?
We didn't ultimately do.
But is there a responsibilityfor us to reach out to nursing homes
where we need to put thesedevices on patients?
(36:25):
And it's a much moreappropriate solution than your traditional
patient monitors.
Um, we supported a facility inHawaii that procured devices for
use in remote patientmonitoring, which is a totally different
arena for us, but pretty muchovernight, we created a smartphone
application that allowed us tomonitor patients from home.
Um, so there were a comp.
A number of differentopportunities that we were trying
(36:47):
to support and to try to justhelp navigate a really complex environment.
We didn't yet have CE Mark atthe beginning of COVID so the regulatory
clearance side of it sort ofhamstringed us a little bit.
We weren't able to really havethe impact that I think we could
have had if it were a yearlater or two years later.
(37:07):
Um, but I think it did set thestage for important conversations
and discussions bothinternally within our team for, you
know, what.
What is our responsibility tosupport in a situation like this
and gave us motivation toreally push harder and harder.
And then two, what are theopportunities for us to kind of expand
beyond what we know?
(37:28):
How does our team have theability to do so?
And I'm just very proud of allof the efforts that our team had
gone through during COVID andthat, of course, lasted for quite
some time, still ongoing, buthopefully there's some level of normalcy
now.
But I think just the teamworkand the dedication that we had during
the really kind of strenuoustime of 2020, that is something that
(37:51):
I'm very proud of our team for.
I know you mentioned to me ina previous conversation that you
had to restructure theorganization at Neopanda, and that
ultimately led to layoffs.
Yeah.
And how did that feel for you?
(38:13):
You know, as a entrepreneur,as this leader at Neopando?
Like, how did that feel for you?
It is the worst part of my jobis having to make those really tough
decisions and looking at, youknow, the whole picture and letting
go friends and colleagues,especially in the communities that
we're working in, where, youknow, we're offering a really sustainable
(38:36):
job for people, and now we'retaking that away.
It's a really, really toughthing that any leader has to go through,
but it's those decisions thatare super important.
This happened more, you know,in the past couple years.
Restructuring, I think itmakes a team and a company stronger.
If you can figure out how torestructure and most importantly,
(38:58):
when to restructure, thenthere's a lot of incredible things
that can come out of it.
Unfortunately for us, therestructuring happened when I delivered
my first baby.
And so the timing probablycouldn't have been worse.
But I guess it also gave methe ability to make decisions that
were meaningful and impactful.
(39:19):
There wasn't a lot of fluff.
There just wasn't room for fluff.
And so I think at the time, asa leader, you have to think about
the entire organization.
And the choice at that timewas, am I going to lose 10 people's
jobs, or can I cut a couple ofpeople that are incredible people
and really hardworking anddedicated and then save eight people's
(39:41):
jobs?
They're really tough decisionsbecause everybody on our team has
been incredibly hardworkingand dedicated.
That doesn't always mean thatwe're seeing the results that we
need to be seeing.
And so you do have to makethose really tough decisions about
who to lay off.
And the most you can do as aleader is to do it with empathy and
(40:02):
to try to help support as muchas you can.
So, you know, providingresources or connections or introductions
to other companies that mightbe looking for it.
It doesn't always end up that way.
You might burn some bridges inthe process, but you do what you
have to do.
And I'm very proud of the restructuring.
It sucked, and I hope that wenever have to go through something
(40:23):
like that again.
But I think strategies thatcame out of it and the reality checks
that came out of it are reallywhat helped us have the best quarter
yet in Q3 until we got to Q4.
And that's now our bestquarter yet.
And we're on track for Q1 thisyear, becoming the same thing.
So tough decisions.
It's tough, but in retrospect,if you have results to show for it,
(40:46):
then it's worth it.
What did you learn aboutyourself during that time?
Oh, what did I learn about myself?
Quite a lot.
And it was certainly aninteresting experience.
I mean, I think because of thetiming with my baby, I think there
I learned a lot about how tobalance, you know, my baby was my.
(41:07):
The most important thing in my life.
And if I put 100% of my timeand effort for my baby, which is
what it should have been, thenthe company would have died.
And so I wasn't going to letthat happen either.
Neopenda is also, you know, Iam reluctant to call it my baby because
I think you.
That's a part of you, right?
It's a part of me.
Yeah.
It is an important part of me.
(41:28):
And I didn't want that to diebecause I think there is a sense
of responsibility that we have.
But balancing the two wasreally tough.
And I had to figure out howcan I parse out time for me to really
focus on work and figure outhow to get us back on track and really
only do the things that aremost important, but also really devote
(41:50):
the time to my baby that weneed as a family.
And, you know, I certainlydidn't get it 100%, but being a new
mom helped me realize what thepriorities are and not worry about
the little things, because thelittle things will sort themselves
out.
It's the really, you know, thebig strategic decisions that are
important.
And that's what I focused mytime and energy on.
(42:13):
I also realized that I don'tlike letting go of people, especially,
you know, colleagues that wereour friends and, you know, we've
met families and we've haddinners together and that's.
But I don't think anybodylikes letting other people go.
So that's not a huge reality.
Yeah, I mean, especially in anorganization that has such a bold
mission, it can't be easy.
(42:35):
I can't even imagine doing anyof that.
One of the big purposes Iwanted to have you on the podcast
was not just to talk aboutNeopenda and the work that you're
doing, but also shed somelight on entrepreneurship.
As a first time startupentrepreneur and leader, I wanted
to ask you what kind of advicewould you have for any new entrepreneurs
(42:59):
that may be looking to dosomething in a similar space?
First, I would encourage youto do it because we need more entrepreneurs
that are interested in this space.
The biggest thing I would sayis find a problem worth solving.
You will figure out how tonavigate all of the complexities
if you have a problem that isworth solving and I think just have
(43:23):
a level of dedication andresilience that is absolutely essential
for any startup founder.
But I think particularly inthis space, you will get told to
know and that your companysucks and your vision sucks and everything
sucks about a million times a day.
Use that as fuel, use that as,you know, take the good out of it
and understand why are peopletelling you that.
(43:45):
Use that to help make yourcompany better, make your vision
stronger and keep going.
You know, just keep your headabove water, one step at a time.
But if you don't have aproblem that's worth solving, then,
you know, don't bother.
That's kind of really the rootof why we do what we do.
It can be very daunting to getinto this space and there isn't a
(44:06):
playbook.
You know, maybe there's aplaybook for how to create medical
devices that's, you know, wellknown, how to create a quality system,
how to go through a design anddevelopment process.
Biodesign courses are reallygreat to help teach you that.
But when you actually get tocommercializing and launching in
a country, there's no playbook.
You are figuring it out as thefirst person to go through this.
(44:29):
And that is really hard, butalso really exciting.
If you get to that stage, beproud of all of the other impacts
that you're having on otherentrepreneurs and in this space because
you're paving the way forother people to start doing this.
And that's what my hope is, isthat it.
This isn't just, you know, aproduct that we've put out there.
We can encourage other peopleto come into the space and there's
(44:51):
more than enough problems forus to be solving.
Let's work together to figureout how we can really provide more
equitable access to healthcarearound the world.
There's a lot of reallyamazing people.
People just get started, findthe problem and just get started.
One day at a time.
One day at a time.
So we started Neopenda in2015, at least, you know, legal entity.
(45:12):
And then full time we startedbreaking on the appendix 2016.
So it took a number of years,right, to get that first product
out.
And that just speaks to theresilience and the motivation that
you guys had as a team.
Sona, thank you so much forcoming onto the podcast.
(45:32):
Thanks so much for having me.
It was a really fun discussionand I'm looking forward to many more.
The last thing I'll ask you ishow can people learn more about Neopenda
and how can people get incontact with you guys?
Yeah, neopenda.com is theeasiest way.
We've got a contact form onthe website.
You can also feel free toreach out to me as well.
(45:53):
My email I'm sure is out theresomewhere, so feel free to email
me or contact me at any time.
If you're interested inlearning more, we've got a monthly
newsletter that goes out toshare updates on what we're up to,
share jobs that we are hiring,we'd love to partner, we'd love to
have you on the team or justto have a chat about what you're
interested in.
(46:13):
So thanks so much again.
Amazing.
Thank you for listening tothis episode.
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's topic and guest, head
over to the show notes linkedin the description of this episode.
There you can get access toresources, links and ways you can
get involved in the pursuitfor global health.
(46:35):
And if you loved this episode,don't forget to write me a review
on Apple Podcasts and rate thepodcast on Spotify.
It helps me get in front ofmore people just like you and continues
to elevate the causes we areso passionate about.
I'll see you in the next one.
Hey, it's Hetal with theGlobal Health Pursuit podcast.
Today's episode is all aboutinnovation, resilience and the power
of bringing healthcare to themost underserved communities.
For this episode, I spoke withSona Shah, CEO of Neopenda, a medical
device company that'stransforming healthcare access in
(00:25):
low income countries withaffordable life saving technology.
So if you're an aspiringentrepreneur or just passionate about
solving urgent healthcareproblems, Sona's story and advice
are going to be pure gold.
Her journey started at GeorgiaTech, studying chemical engineering
(00:46):
and took her across the worldto Kenya where she saw firsthand
the gaps in healthcare.
This experience sparked thebeginning of Neopenda and along the
way she met her co founderTess at Columbia University.
Together they've beennavigating the complex world of medical
device innovation for emerging markets.
(01:08):
In this episode we get to diveinto real world challenges of launching
a healthcare startup,especially one focused on life saving
devices for infants.
From navigating regulatoryhurdles to choosing a for profit
model, to restructuring their team.
During COVID 19, Sona sharesher insight on the highs and lows
(01:32):
of running a healthcare company.
She also opens up about howculturally sensitive design plays
a huge role in creatingsolutions that truly fit the needs
of the communities Neopenda serves.
My name is Heathal Bauman andwelcome to the Global Health Pursuit,
a podcast for those curiousabout public health, global impact
(01:53):
and inspiring people who aremaking a difference.
So make sure you'resubscribed, leave a 5 star review
if you're enjoying the showand share this episode with someone
who might find it valuable.
Every listen and every sharehelps this podcast reach more people
who care about global health.
Also, just a reminder, ifyou're in the US and if you're listening
(02:15):
when this episode is beingdropped November 5, 2024, you probably
know what day it is.
Election day.
Every vote counts, so go outand vote.
Sona, it's so good to finallyget you on the podcast.
I have been trying to get youon the podcast for like couple years
(02:37):
now.
I know life has been prettycrazy I think for all of us.
This interview is specialbecause I've known you for a little
while now.
We both did our graduateschool at Columbia University and
we met through a design coursetaught by Dr.
Katie Reuther and she'sapparently on your board now at Neaganda.
(03:03):
So that is really, really cool.
I want to start this interviewjust kind of going back, you know,
going back to just thebeginnings of what Neopanda was like.
Where did you even get the idea.
Yeah, thanks so much forhaving me.
It's an honor to be here.
(03:23):
If it's okay, I might actuallystart from when I graduated with
my undergrad degrees, I wentto Georgia Tech for chemical engineering.
I graduated a semester earlyand decided why not travel a bit.
I was always drawn towardskind of volunteering and helping
people, but didn't really knowwhat I wanted to do with that beyond,
you know, clubs at school.
So right after I graduated, Iwent to Western Kenya, and I was
(03:47):
a primary school teacher.
I did not know that.
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
That's kind of whereinternational development started
for me.
I just randomly ended up in asmall town in Western Kenya, and
I was walking 40 minutes a dayto get to the school, and I was teaching
math and science and English, mostly.
I taught one day of Swahili,and that didn't end well.
(04:09):
No word of Swahili, but, youknow, that's fine.
Um, kids ended up learning.
Uh, but anyway, I was therefor several months and just really,
really loved it.
Everything about the cultureand community was incredible, except
for the inequities that I wasfortunate not to have growing up.
And that really stuck with me.
(04:30):
I.
When I came back to the US Ihad a job lined up in pharmacy, and
so I worked in bioprocessresearch and development and really
loved my time there.
I was in engineering.
I was working with largebioreactors, actually using that
engineering background,learning about product process development,
regulatory inequality, and theimportance of that in the healthcare
industry.
I got to see quite a fewmedications coming through the pipeline
(04:53):
as all the drugs we werecreating were going through clinical
trials.
A really fun atmosphere, avery comfortable lifestyle.
But at some point, I realizedthat the kids that I taught in Kenya
would maybe never see themedications that I was helping make.
That drove me back to graduate school.
Columbia, as you mentioned.
And I specifically picked itfor a couple of different reasons.
(05:13):
And I started working in a labthat was creating a point of care
diagnostic for HIV and syphilis.
Wanted to get more into therealm of biomedical engineering,
and more specifically, how canwe provide equitable access to healthcare
around the world.
I also picked it for theaccess to a ton of nonprofits.
In New York.
I interned at the TB alliance,both in community engagement, which
(05:34):
was totally outside of myexpertise, but loved expanding my
horizons there, and also indrug discoveries.
And then I took the biodesigncourse that you mentioned with Dr.
Katie Reuther, and that'swhere we started Neopendis.
I have a lot of thanks and alot of my career journey is thanks
to Dr.
Reuthers.
Thank you for everything thatyou've done.
And I would encourage anybodyto go through a bio design course
(05:56):
because it really does startthe fundamentals of biodesign and
how to, you know, what seemsintuitive of start with a problem
and then create cool tech tohelp solve the problem, opposed to
vice versa.
But a lot of our fundamentalsreally stemmed from that course.
That is so helpful.
I totally did not know thatyou spent some time in Kenya.
(06:17):
I mean, it speaks to whatyou're doing today.
During that time, youmentioned that, you know, while you
were working inpharmaceutical, you had this kind
of realization that thesemedicines most likely will not reach
the kids that you taught in Kenya.
(06:37):
Where were the otherinequities that you saw when you
were there?
Yeah, while I was in Kenya,there's kind of a whole host of inequities.
It was full of this beautifuland warm culture, A life without
as many expectations.
I think here in the U.S.
you know, we don't have hotwater in the shower and in the morning,
(06:58):
and it's the worst day in the world.
And, you know, being there, itjust makes you realize what's really
important to you.
And for a lot of the peoplethere, it was family, Do I have food
on my table?
The culture in the community,and in many cases, religion for them.
So there were a lot of basicnecessities that I think they focused
a lot more on, which I thinkis not an inequity that is far advanced
(07:21):
than, you know, what most ofus, including myself, grew up with.
But that does also contributeto detrimental effects in healthcare.
For example, one of my kidswhile I was there had a seizure,
and she fell to the ground,and she was foaming at the mouth.
And in.
In their culture, it wasessentially spirits that were taking
(07:42):
over her.
And so they wouldn't let metake her to a hospital where we knew
that she would be able to getbetter care.
And so there was this wholecultural shift that, you know, I.
I physically could not takethis child to a hospital when she
desperately needed that.
And so some of it was kind ofthe education piece of it, how things
were taught in the education system.
(08:03):
I think there's a lot ofreform that is needed.
There's a lot of really greatthings that are taught in schools.
In where I was, a lot of thefemales didn't go past primary school.
It was kind of their job,their duty to get married and have
children.
And that was kind of theirgoal in life, which is a great goal
for many that wasn't my goalgrowing up.
(08:24):
And so I think just even thepresence of being there as a female
kind of getting out there anddoing something different was the
impact that I made.
I think when I went into thisI was a naive American that thought
I can change the world.
And then I walked awaythinking I don't know if I actually
did anything.
What it did do was open myeyes to an entirely new culture and
(08:47):
community and how a lot of theworld lives.
That just the exposure isreally what was fundamental for me.
Yeah, I mean, I also talkabout this reverse culture shock
that we kind of experiencewhen we come back from an experience
like that because we tend tohave our perspectives kind of opened
up and then we start askingquestions about like why is it that
(09:12):
we live this way and they livethat way.
Another thing that I wanted tomention, I know you touched on that
little girl having a seizureand how epilepsy in a lot of countries
have this stigma aroundspirits and you know, run away, you're
going to catch it.
I actually did a three partepisode with Tigo Daniel Joyem on
(09:35):
literally this.
So that's episodes 34 to 36.
So if you want to learn moreabout that, go and listen to that.
It's definitely veryfascinating and you know, I think
highlights a lot of theimportance of Western methodologies
don't work everywhere.
You can't come in with amindset of what works in one community
(09:55):
will definitively work inanother community.
And you know, as much as Iwanted to take the child to the hospital,
that's not how it was done there.
And but at the same time youhave to be culturally sensitive and
appropriate and know whereyour limits are and to know how can
you design and developsomething that actually works within
a community and not imposingyour own personal beliefs on somebody
thing.
(10:16):
Yeah.
And I mean there's a, there'sa line, right.
There's the white saviorismkind of.
I mean we're Indian, but stillthere's like concept.
Yeah, the concept works inthat sense too.
It's just how do you do thingsintentionally and sensitively in
a country like that?
Now, going back to the designcourse, where did the idea stem for
(10:40):
Neopenda and what was the needthat you were trying to tackle?
So when we originally startedthe biodesign course, Dr.
Aaron Kyle, who's anotherprofessor actually on our advisory
board as well, challenged usto think about during this course.
Why is newborn mortality somuch higher in low and middle income
countries than in the us?
(11:00):
There truly are about Amillion problems that contribute
to this.
But that was kind of thestarting point.
We were tasked with thinkingabout this.
We were drawn towards kind ofvital signs.
Monitoring it has beensomething that many teams had worked
on for a while and identifiedas a need.
But we didn't truly understandwhat problem are we addressing until
we actually went out to Ugandaand did more of a needs assessment.
(11:23):
And so, you know, we fastforward a little bit and then I'll
get back to the biodesign course.
But after the course, weactually entered into the Columbia
Venture competition.
And it's really fun to go backto that pitch deck because at least
now I know we've come a reallylong way since the deck, but it was
at least good enough to beable to get $10,000 from the university.
(11:43):
And that was really kind ofthe initial seed funding.
And that was when Tess and Idecided there's only so much we could
do from a lab in New York.
We really needed to get outthere and understand what are these
issues.
So we used that funding, wentto Uganda and we did a more proper
needs assessment.
And this was kind of post course.
And so we had done a lot ofthe biodesign elements.
(12:04):
But again, I think trulyunderstanding the problem didn't
really happen until a littlebit later.
When we were in country andwhen we were in Uganda.
What we had seen is a coupleof different things.
The first is we kind of toureddifferent public and private facilities
across the country trying tounderstand what are the most pressing
(12:24):
issues.
And the biggest thing that wehad seen was that these hospitals
didn't have functioningmedical equipment.
They had rooms or fields thatnurses literally call the equipment
graveyard.
It's exactly kind of whatyou're picturing or exactly what
it sounds like.
It's just mounds of devicesthat are sitting there broken because
nobody has really thoughtabout the constraints of 85% of the
(12:46):
world's population.
And we just design medicaldevices for countries like the US
where power instability ordust getting into our devices or
humidity constraints aren'treally as much of an issue.
And so that's really when wecommitted ourselves to Neopenda and,
you know, spinning it out ofthe university and into a fully fledged
(13:06):
startup to design medtech thatfunctions anywhere in the world.
Our roots were and still arein neonatal mortality and trying
to understand what those bigissues are.
And so most of our time wasspent in the neonatal wards trying
to understand what are thebiggest problems that these nurses
have.
It's quite a daunting thingbecause you go into the hospitals
(13:27):
and hospitals need medical equipment.
Clinicians need devices to beable to deliver the highest levels
of care that are needed forthese patients.
Um, it's just a detriment thatthese patients don't have access
to that.
The clinicians don't haveaccess to that.
And so they're the ones thatare really suffering from this strain.
So one of the biggest issuesthat we saw was that there were just
(13:50):
too many critically illpatients and not enough nurses to
care for them.
I think the first ward that wehad gone to, I just remember this
gut wrenching feeling walkingout of the ward because there were
150 babies in this ward.
Some were on tables, there wasan open drawer of a desk and there
was a baby inside.
And so there.
It's just a massive ward withtoo many patients.
(14:12):
And there were two nurses.
Two.
How are they supposed to knowwhich babies actually need their
attention?
Compare that to your NICUshere in the US where maybe it's a
ratio of two babies, threebabies at most, for one nurse.
The hospital that I mentionedis kind of on the extreme.
It's more of a government facility.
So there's a lot more patients there.
(14:32):
But you get the picture, notenough nurses.
They don't have the tools toreally identify patients in distress.
That is really the problemthat we wanted to help solve is how
do we leverage technology toalert clinicians when a patient needs
their attention so now theycan provide more timely and appropriate
treatment to the patients thatreally need it.
And that is kind of the rootof the problem that we wanted to
(14:55):
help solve.
That lent itself well to avital signs monitoring, which is
what we created as our first product.
Yeah, I mean, you touched on alot of things there, especially the
equipment.
Graveyard.
Right.
I think it was like 85% ofmedical devices are designed for
high income countries.
I think that's what the stat was.
(15:15):
And you worked at apharmaceutical company, I worked
at a medical device company.
And what happens is once wehave a new generation of a device,
we'll donate or throw outwhatever we had.
It's almost like you're wipingyour hands clean.
Like, okay, we just donated abunch of stuff.
(15:39):
And for you to create amedical device that is designed around
the limitations andconstraints that a hospital ward
in Uganda have.
Like, you know, humidity.
Humidity is a big thing.
Yeah.
(15:59):
Dust, insects, all of thatkind of stuff.
I even, I did an interviewwith somebody who told me that the
doctor that they worked withwould wash his gloves and then hang
them up to dry for the next day.
And it's like, okay, have youthought about that?
So what I wanted to go nextis, okay, you decided that you wanted
(16:24):
to start Neopenda.
Was that always your goal to,like, become an entrepreneur?
Like, what.
What did you think?
Going to Columbia University,doing your master's.
What did you think you weregoing to end up doing?
Honestly, I had no idea.
(16:45):
I think working in pharmaright after undergrad was such an
amazing experience.
I learned a lot about what I loved.
Engineering, healthcare, youknow, all of the elements of that.
But I also learned a lot aboutwhat I didn't love.
I don't like being one personin a big corporation.
I don't have the impact that Ithink I can have.
(17:05):
I thrive in a much smallerenvironment where I have a lot more
autonomy and I have a lot moreof the ability to shape and change
the course.
That is where I thrive a lot more.
I didn't know exactly what Iwanted, but I knew that I wanted
a change.
And it is really difficult togive up a really comfortable lifestyle
in corporate America where you.
(17:25):
I, you know, had a very activesocial circle, and I had my evenings
and weekends and all of thethings that we take for granted,
you know, now working at astartup, and it's a totally different
lifestyle.
And there's, you know, there'sa drastic differences in kind of
why I did what I did.
And maybe it was a little bitof craziness, but I think every entrepreneur
(17:48):
has a little bit of crazinessin them.
But going into Columbia, Ididn't know.
And that was a lot of thereason why I wanted to go there is
because I wanted to work inthis lab.
I wanted access to the nonprofits.
I wanted to be in such aninternational community to figure
out what I wanted to do.
I think I've always hadinspiration for an entrepreneurial
(18:09):
journey.
My dad started his own companybefore I was born, and it's an environmental
consulting company.
So totally different from whatI'm doing.
But I have so much morerespect now for the work that he's
done and being able to.
To really help it thrive and survive.
Over the past several decades,that spirit has always been built
in me.
(18:29):
I just didn't know it until Istarted the company.
When you go to thesecommunities and you see the gaps
and you see the problems andthe needs, you can't forget them.
There isn't an easy solutionto join a company that is working
to solve this.
I could probably count on onehand the number of medical device
companies that are trulyinvesting in Africa or Low and middle
(18:51):
income countries more broadly.
That's not okay.
We need to do better.
Me starting the companyalongside Tess.
I wouldn't have been able todo this without Tess right by my
side.
Um, but just having that is alot of the reason why we started
it.
It just didn't exist.
So we created our own.
(19:11):
Did you know Tess before?
Nope.
We met in grad school.
We met basically in thebiodesign course.
Biodesign is kind of where wereally met each other.
And I feel like that's reallyserendipitous, right.
To meet somebody who isequally as passionate about this
cause and make this company anactual thing.
(19:33):
That's so.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah, it's wild.
And I think you hear a lot ofhorror stories about founders, you
know, falling out or havingdifference of opinion.
And I can truly say that, youknow, I.
I've never felt that with Tess.
I think we are suchcomplimentary people in every sense
of the word.
I think our skill sets arevery diverse, but complementary.
(19:56):
The way that we think, the waythat we approach things is in many
cases quite opposite.
And that's what makes us sucha good pair, is that we're able to
bring different perspectivesand bring them together to come up
with something cohesive.
And so that's been strongsince day one.
Amazing.
I want to talk about the modelof Neopenda.
So when you think about socialimpact, a lot of times that comes
(20:22):
alongside nonprofits, right?
And when you first thoughtabout, okay, what is the model of
Neopenda going to be?
What went through your guys mind?
Because I'm sure you thoughtabout the model of being a nonprofit
(20:45):
medical advice company.
That definitely crossed our mind.
And if we go back to ourbiodesign roots, the first question
we asked is, what is abusiness model?
And so thankfully, the coursehelped us, you know, understand what
that actually means.
And you know, I think asengineers, even though we had a problem
and we had a great solution,you have to have a business model
(21:05):
to go alongside it.
Otherwise it's a meaninglesstechnology, even if that business
model is a nonprofit structure.
And so we certainly thoughtabout nonprofit, we thought about
for profit, we thought abouthybrid structure.
So there's many different waysthat companies can structure their
entity.
For us, sustainability isreally important.
(21:25):
We care equally about theprofitability as the impact that
we can have with our systems,because those go hand in hand.
The more devices we can sell,the more patients we can improve
quality of care for, and themore profitable we are as a company
that can then feed back intofuture Products as well.
So that's what lent itself waswell to a for profit structure.
(21:46):
I think there are a lot ofgreat organizations that are nonprofits.
Many of our partners are nonprofits.
For the medical industry inparticular, I see no reason to compromise
profitability and impact.
Both of those truly do go handin hand.
So when we were thinking aboutthe business model, we had gotten
advice from a lot of otherstartups that the hybrid structure
(22:08):
of nonprofit and for profit,it's great because you can attract
both grant funding andinvestment dollars, but it's a really
difficult structure to manage.
There's a lot of gray areabetween what are you using grant
funding for versus investment dollars.
And you have to have kind of alarger organization with clear lines
of what's the differencebetween the two.
(22:29):
And it just often gets blurred.
We didn't have the capacity asa two person team with engineering
background, not businessbackgrounds, to really be able to
kind of structure it that way.
So we went more towards thefor profit realm.
I think one of the keyelements for us is the nonprofit
model often lends itself todonation of equipment and that doesn't
(22:50):
seem to be quite as sustainable.
We've seen this shift in a lotof hospitals that we work with that
they used to attract a lot of,you know, medical devices that were
donated.
But it's human nature thatyou're not going to take care of
something that was free for you.
And so for us, even if we cansubsidize or even if we can, you
know, design affordabletechnologies, that was really the
(23:12):
key for us.
One of the biggest constraintsthat we have is affordability.
Um, but even if they can paysomething for it, there is a different
sense of ownership, there is adifferent sense of excitement over
a technology.
And for us, that is essentialfor success of the company.
That's not to say that othercompanies that are nonprofits aren't
doing great and aren't able tokind of sustain themselves that way.
(23:33):
But in our model, thesustainability aspect, profitability
is really important for us andis a way to drive more impact.
That reminds me of the bookToxic Charity talks about.
I would read it.
That sense of accountabilitythat people have.
I think there was a story inthere where there was a group that
(23:55):
wanted to donate clothes, butinstead what they did was they set
up a little shop and theydiscounted all of the items by like
90%.
Yep.
So that people came in andthey were actually able to afford
something like a gift orwhatever it was so that they could
(24:15):
feel proud that they actuallybought it.
And there's something to sayabout that for sure.
Yeah.
So talk about developing yourfirst product that's called NeoGuard
and then selling it.
Yeah.
So the development processtook longer than you expect.
(24:36):
I think this is true for any startup.
Double the time, double the money.
In our case it was maybetriple the time and triple the money,
but that's fine.
We learn and now we're a lotsmarter about it.
But early on there is a lotthat comes with medical devices which
is very different.
Healthcare in general is quitedifferent than many other industries
because it's so regulated forgood reason.
(24:57):
And so when we were developingthe NeoGuard system, we didn't just
have to create a system forNeoGuard, we had to create a design
and development process forall future products as well.
And so when we spent six yearsto get our first product to market,
it wasn't just to get NeoGuardto market, it was to create an actual
system that allows us toreplicate it for future products
(25:18):
as well.
You know, if you areinterested in healthcare and medical
devices, quality managementsystems and getting that set up early
on is so essential.
It is way too much money, butit is well worth it.
You should spend your money ondeveloping a quality management system.
We didn't do that until maybea couple years into our design and
development process.
(25:38):
We of course had designcontrols and other kind of basic
elements of it, but actuallycreating our QMS didn't happen until
a couple years in and we hadto kind of backtrack a bit and really
create all of our records andstructures around that.
But really creating a productthat is risk based and understanding
what are the potential failuremodes and harms, all of that should
(26:00):
really be built in from day one.
And so I think that was a lotof what we did for the first six
years is iteratively designingour solution with and for our users
and in the process alsocreating kind of a robust mechanism
to look at future products as well.
We didn't have the capacity todo it then, but we knew eventually
(26:20):
we would want to.
And so why create a oneproduct company when you can have
multiple products?
And so that was kind of partof the reason why it took us so long.
Understanding how to getregulatory clearance and what is
the process for that,conducting clinical trials.
There were just a lot ofelements of it and you know, some
of it was funding related.
We had to go through multiplecycles of funding because medical
(26:43):
device development is capitalintensive upfront and many investors
are risk averse for a varietyof reasons, including you're a regulated
Industry, you're working inhardware, you're working in Africa.
Most investors don'tunderstand at least one of those
three.
So a lot of our job had to beeducation of investors or grant funders.
(27:03):
We were, you know, quitesuccessful with getting grant funding
early on for the idea of thecompany and the solution that we
were creating.
But you know, it is prettycapital intensive for med devices.
And so that was the first sixyears when we finally got CE Mark,
which is the European versionof FDA clearance, that was in 2021.
(27:24):
And that led to our formallaunch in Kenya in Q3, Q4, 2021.
There are certainly distinctpoints in Neopenda's journey where
I've.
I'm reminded that this isn'tjust a classroom project.
This is real.
This is a device that is goingon patients and has the potential
to improve their life,potential to save their life in many
(27:46):
cases.
And getting CE Mark was one of them.
That this is our stamp ofapproval that we can go out there
and put devices in the handsof our users.
And of course that was alonger journey than we anticipated
as well.
We spent more time in productmarket fit than I had certainly anticipated.
And I think that's an areathat I would highly recommend other
(28:08):
entrepreneurs to just spend alot of time thinking about.
We had a beautiful go tomarket plan.
We had this robust idea ofwhat everything would look like.
But commercial use of productis always different than clinical
trials.
The more patients you're on,the more things you're going to see,
the more user feedback you'regoing to get, the more you'll have
to evaluate what is the targetcustomer and actually build a proper
(28:29):
sales organization.
So we spent maybe a year and ahalf after commercial launch, we,
you know, attracted somecustomers, we brought in a few customers,
we had devices on patients.
But we spent the better of ayear and a half really focusing on
product market fit, whichspanned from the product side and
making improvements based oncustomer feedback all the way through
(28:50):
customer side.
And what does our businessmodel look like and how do we actually
sell to organizations and thenonce we get it there, how do we make
sure that they're using it andusing it correctly and having the
impact that the system canactually have.
So it wasn't until about Q3last year that we really kind of
turned a corner with our sales.
And now I can very confidentlysay, like we have a robust sales
(29:11):
organization that iscontinuing to sell products not just
in Kenya, but in, in Ugandaand Ghana and then two more countries
later this year.
So it was definitely a journey.
And I think the year and ahalf that we spent on product market
fit was a really crucial yearand a half.
But it was full of trials and tribulation.
(29:31):
Can you explain what that term means?
Product market fit?
Yeah, means somethingdifferent to everybody.
And so does investor rounds.
Everybody has a different definition.
Early stage could be you're a$30 million company and you know,
that in my mind is not earlystage, but people have different
(29:53):
definitions.
So take this with a grain ofsalt, but in our mind, product market
fit is understanding.
One, who are the customersthat really need the product?
Two, what value does ourproduct actually serve them?
And three, is the productactually serving that value?
So really understanding andmaking sure that we can get products
into the hands of users andthey're utilizing product in the
(30:15):
way that we intend for it tobe used and it's having the impact
that we intend for it to have.
You know, as we continue inour journey, there will be another
phase of product market fit aswe expand into new geographies and
understand, okay, now we'vegot our first set of customers and
how do we scale this to abroader set of customers?
And then there will be a wholeproduct market fit phase again.
(30:37):
So it's a continuous journey.
It's never truly done, but forus, really getting kind of those
initial customers, makingthose product improvements, that
was kind of the biggest, youknow, stamp for us that we've achieved
product market fit.
So I wanted to ask, you know,in the very beginning it was you
and Tess and when did you seethe need to grow staff?
(31:00):
You know, because now you havea whole team behind Neopenda when,
like, where was the turningpoint there?
Pretty early on, I think,especially because Tess and I are
still based in the US we knewthat we needed to bring on local
team members.
So our very first hire was in Uganda.
(31:21):
That's where we had done a lotof our, you know, early clinical
trials, our early research in general.
And so very early on, webrought on a team member and she
was great.
She was incredible for what weneeded at the time.
And as we continued to evolveas a company, we brought on various
team members, primarily on theR and D side to begin with or the
(31:42):
research and clinical trial side.
So some of our longeststanding team members are really
on the R and D front.
You don't need a full salesteam when we're still in R and D
in the product.
And so there was kind of thatbalance between it.
I was doing a lot of thebusiness side of things alongside
Product development.
And so those are essential togo hand in hand.
(32:02):
But we didn't need a full teambehind that.
So yeah, we brought on a lotof our R and D and research clinical
trial team early on.
Just kind of the general dayto day operational aspects of things.
I think bringing on the R andD team is a tricky thing to evaluate
because creating a medicaldevice that has hardware and electronics
(32:24):
and plastics and software andfirmware and everything in between,
that requires many differenttypes of engineers.
It's not one person that cando everything, but you don't have
the money for everything.
And so we brought on a lot ofconsultants early on as well to help
with the heavy lifting as wekind of built our R and D team.
(32:45):
So that was the model that wehad used.
Bringing on consultants comeswith its own complexities that we
probably don't have enoughtime for to talk about all the complexities.
But I think it's a great wayto build your team.
There are just nuances aroundmanaging consultants and managing
expectations of whatconsultants can deliver and then
realizing that you might needto backtrack to really understand
(33:08):
how something was built or howcan we make improvements to something.
So that's a natural course of things.
But we did work with a lot ofpartners early on just to help make
sure that we could advancewithout having to bring on too many
full time team members.
Do you think that was maybethe most difficult thing to handle
in the very beginning of thefirst few years?
(33:32):
Yeah, I think there were anumber of difficult things to go
through.
I think just the fundingcycles were difficult and managing
that, having to balance, youknow, creating an entire company
while focusing on the first product.
There's just a lot of thingsto figure out and a lot of things
that you don't know.
We still don't know a lot of things.
(33:53):
We're a lot smarter than wewere, you know, seven years ago,
but there's still a lot thatwe don't know.
I have the ability now to hireexperts in the space and I can bring
on people that have expertise.
But early on, Tess and I hadto figure it out.
We had to figure out what doesit mean to have a quality management
system?
What does it mean to do voiceof customer informative testing?
(34:14):
What does it mean to do all ofthese things that we had no idea
how to do?
And I think our conviction andour mission was so strong that we
figured it out and we movedmountains to make it work.
But it is really difficult todo everything when you don't know
any of it.
Yeah, I've.
It's a completely new space.
(34:34):
You can take some things thatyou've learned at your previous job
or a company, but like yousaid, so many nuances.
I want to talk about whenCovid hit, what went on in your mind?
What was happening withNeopenda at the time?
And obviously it threw all ofus off the rails, but what had happened
(34:57):
throughout those couple years?
So, I mean, like many otherstartups had Covid.
When Covid hit, that was kindof a near death experience for Neopenda.
We've had a couple in ourjourney and thankfully we're not
in one right now, but we'vehad a couple and Covid was one of
them.
It was.
There were a lot of people, wehad funding committed and it got
(35:18):
pulled because of COVID Sothere's a lot of kind of external
factors, a lot of panic thatwas happening.
On the flip side of that, Ithink it really opened a lot of potential
opportunity for Neapunda as ahealthcare medical device company
that is creating a vital signs monitor.
I think the importance ofvital signs monitoring was much more
pronounced during COVID Somuch so that we actually adapted
(35:40):
our neonatal monitor for usein adult and pediatric patients.
So, you know, again, I thinkit opened up a lot of opportunities,
opportunities for us.
I no longer had to necessarilyexplain what is a pulse oximeter
to people.
That was kind of a little bitmore common knowledge, or at least
what is the importance ofvital signs monitoring?
That was more common knowledge.
I think our team, myselfcertainly included, felt a responsibility
(36:04):
to support because we had a solution.
You know, my family had Covidand we put our devices on them to
make sure that they were okay.
And, um, so there were, fromthe very basic levels all the way
through.
How can we help the city of Chicago?
We didn't ultimately do.
But is there a responsibilityfor us to reach out to nursing homes
where we need to put thesedevices on patients?
(36:25):
And it's a much moreappropriate solution than your traditional
patient monitors.
Um, we supported a facility inHawaii that procured devices for
use in remote patientmonitoring, which is a totally different
arena for us, but pretty muchovernight, we created a smartphone
application that allowed us tomonitor patients from home.
Um, so there were a comp.
A number of differentopportunities that we were trying
(36:47):
to support and to try to justhelp navigate a really complex environment.
We didn't yet have CE Mark atthe beginning of COVID so the regulatory
clearance side of it sort ofhamstringed us a little bit.
We weren't able to really havethe impact that I think we could
have had if it were a yearlater or two years later.
(37:07):
Um, but I think it did set thestage for important conversations
and discussions bothinternally within our team for, you
know, what.
What is our responsibility tosupport in a situation like this
and gave us motivation toreally push harder and harder.
And then two, what are theopportunities for us to kind of expand
beyond what we know?
(37:28):
How does our team have theability to do so?
And I'm just very proud of allof the efforts that our team had
gone through during COVID andthat, of course, lasted for quite
some time, still ongoing, buthopefully there's some level of normalcy
now.
But I think just the teamworkand the dedication that we had during
the really kind of strenuoustime of 2020, that is something that
(37:51):
I'm very proud of our team for.
I know you mentioned to me ina previous conversation that you
had to restructure theorganization at Neopanda, and that
ultimately led to layoffs.
Yeah.
And how did that feel for you?
(38:13):
You know, as a entrepreneur,as this leader at Neopando?
Like, how did that feel for you?
It is the worst part of my jobis having to make those really tough
decisions and looking at, youknow, the whole picture and letting
go friends and colleagues,especially in the communities that
we're working in, where, youknow, we're offering a really sustainable
(38:36):
job for people, and now we'retaking that away.
It's a really, really toughthing that any leader has to go through,
but it's those decisions thatare super important.
This happened more, you know,in the past couple years.
Restructuring, I think itmakes a team and a company stronger.
If you can figure out how torestructure and most importantly,
(38:58):
when to restructure, thenthere's a lot of incredible things
that can come out of it.
Unfortunately for us, therestructuring happened when I delivered
my first baby.
And so the timing probablycouldn't have been worse.
But I guess it also gave methe ability to make decisions that
were meaningful and impactful.
(39:19):
There wasn't a lot of fluff.
There just wasn't room for fluff.
And so I think at the time, asa leader, you have to think about
the entire organization.
And the choice at that timewas, am I going to lose 10 people's
jobs, or can I cut a couple ofpeople that are incredible people
and really hardworking anddedicated and then save eight people's
(39:41):
jobs?
They're really tough decisionsbecause everybody on our team has
been incredibly hardworkingand dedicated.
That doesn't always mean thatwe're seeing the results that we
need to be seeing.
And so you do have to makethose really tough decisions about
who to lay off.
And the most you can do as aleader is to do it with empathy and
(40:02):
to try to help support as muchas you can.
So, you know, providingresources or connections or introductions
to other companies that mightbe looking for it.
It doesn't always end up that way.
You might burn some bridges inthe process, but you do what you
have to do.
And I'm very proud of the restructuring.
It sucked, and I hope that wenever have to go through something
(40:23):
like that again.
But I think strategies thatcame out of it and the reality checks
that came out of it are reallywhat helped us have the best quarter
yet in Q3 until we got to Q4.
And that's now our bestquarter yet.
And we're on track for Q1 thisyear, becoming the same thing.
So tough decisions.
It's tough, but in retrospect,if you have results to show for it,
(40:46):
then it's worth it.
What did you learn aboutyourself during that time?
Oh, what did I learn about myself?
Quite a lot.
And it was certainly aninteresting experience.
I mean, I think because of thetiming with my baby, I think there
I learned a lot about how tobalance, you know, my baby was my.
(41:07):
The most important thing in my life.
And if I put 100% of my timeand effort for my baby, which is
what it should have been, thenthe company would have died.
And so I wasn't going to letthat happen either.
Neopenda is also, you know, Iam reluctant to call it my baby because
I think you.
That's a part of you, right?
It's a part of me.
Yeah.
It is an important part of me.
(41:28):
And I didn't want that to diebecause I think there is a sense
of responsibility that we have.
But balancing the two wasreally tough.
And I had to figure out howcan I parse out time for me to really
focus on work and figure outhow to get us back on track and really
only do the things that aremost important, but also really devote
(41:50):
the time to my baby that weneed as a family.
And, you know, I certainlydidn't get it 100%, but being a new
mom helped me realize what thepriorities are and not worry about
the little things, because thelittle things will sort themselves
out.
It's the really, you know, thebig strategic decisions that are
important.
And that's what I focused mytime and energy on.
(42:13):
I also realized that I don'tlike letting go of people, especially,
you know, colleagues that wereour friends and, you know, we've
met families and we've haddinners together and that's.
But I don't think anybodylikes letting other people go.
So that's not a huge reality.
Yeah, I mean, especially in anorganization that has such a bold
mission, it can't be easy.
(42:35):
I can't even imagine doing anyof that.
One of the big purposes Iwanted to have you on the podcast
was not just to talk aboutNeopenda and the work that you're
doing, but also shed somelight on entrepreneurship.
As a first time startupentrepreneur and leader, I wanted
to ask you what kind of advicewould you have for any new entrepreneurs
(42:59):
that may be looking to dosomething in a similar space?
First, I would encourage youto do it because we need more entrepreneurs
that are interested in this space.
The biggest thing I would sayis find a problem worth solving.
You will figure out how tonavigate all of the complexities
if you have a problem that isworth solving and I think just have
(43:23):
a level of dedication andresilience that is absolutely essential
for any startup founder.
But I think particularly inthis space, you will get told to
know and that your companysucks and your vision sucks and everything
sucks about a million times a day.
Use that as fuel, use that as,you know, take the good out of it
and understand why are peopletelling you that.
(43:45):
Use that to help make yourcompany better, make your vision
stronger and keep going.
You know, just keep your headabove water, one step at a time.
But if you don't have aproblem that's worth solving, then,
you know, don't bother.
That's kind of really the rootof why we do what we do.
It can be very daunting to getinto this space and there isn't a
(44:06):
playbook.
You know, maybe there's aplaybook for how to create medical
devices that's, you know, wellknown, how to create a quality system,
how to go through a design anddevelopment process.
Biodesign courses are reallygreat to help teach you that.
But when you actually get tocommercializing and launching in
a country, there's no playbook.
You are figuring it out as thefirst person to go through this.
(44:29):
And that is really hard, butalso really exciting.
If you get to that stage, beproud of all of the other impacts
that you're having on otherentrepreneurs and in this space because
you're paving the way forother people to start doing this.
And that's what my hope is, isthat it.
This isn't just, you know, aproduct that we've put out there.
We can encourage other peopleto come into the space and there's
(44:51):
more than enough problems forus to be solving.
Let's work together to figureout how we can really provide more
equitable access to healthcarearound the world.
There's a lot of reallyamazing people.
People just get started, findthe problem and just get started.
One day at a time.
One day at a time.
So we started Neopenda in2015, at least, you know, legal entity.
(45:12):
And then full time we startedbreaking on the appendix 2016.
So it took a number of years,right, to get that first product
out.
And that just speaks to theresilience and the motivation that
you guys had as a team.
Sona, thank you so much forcoming onto the podcast.
(45:32):
Thanks so much for having me.
It was a really fun discussionand I'm looking forward to many more.
The last thing I'll ask you ishow can people learn more about Neopenda
and how can people get incontact with you guys?
Yeah, neopenda.com is theeasiest way.
We've got a contact form onthe website.
You can also feel free toreach out to me as well.
(45:53):
My email I'm sure is out theresomewhere, so feel free to email
me or contact me at any time.
If you're interested inlearning more, we've got a monthly
newsletter that goes out toshare updates on what we're up to,
share jobs that we are hiring,we'd love to partner, we'd love to
have you on the team or justto have a chat about what you're
interested in.
(46:13):
So thanks so much again.
Amazing.
Thank you for listening tothis episode.
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's topic and guest, head
over to the show notes linkedin the description of this episode.
There you can get access toresources, links and ways you can
get involved in the pursuitfor global health.
(46:35):
And if you loved this episode,don't forget to write me a review
on Apple Podcasts and rate thepodcast on Spotify.
It helps me get in front ofmore people just like you and continues
to elevate the causes we areso passionate about.
I'll see you in the next one.
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