July 23, 2025 • 52 mins
Mariellen Ward, an award-winning Canadian travel writer and co-founder of the tour company India for Beginners, shares her transformative 20-year journey through India and how she now helps first-time visitors experience this vibrant country with confidence.
• Mariellen's first six-month Indian adventure arose from an inexplicable calling while battling grief and depression
• The feeling of "coming home" in Delhi sparked two decades of travel, writing, and eventually founding a custom tour company
• Common misconceptions about India include exaggerated safety concerns and assumptions about poverty
• Scammers targeting tourists present a greater challenge than violent crime
• Preparation is crucial – research clothing norms, health precautions, and cultural expectations before arrival
• Consider homestays over hotels for a more authentic, grounded experience
• Explore beyond the Golden Triangle – regions like Kerala and Madhya Pradesh offer rich experiences with fewer tourists
• Cultural sensitivity is essential – dress modestly, respect religious customs, remove shoes in homes and temples
• Time your visit according to weather patterns – each region has optimal seasons
• Plan around major festivals like Diwali when travel can become challenging
To learn more about experiencing India through custom tours designed for first-time visitors, especially women travellers, visit breathedreamgo.com or indiaforbeginners.com.
Guest - Mariellen Ward from breathedreamgo.com and indiaforbeginners.com.
Show notes - Episode 63
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
India is vibrant, intense and unforgettable.
This week, travel writerMariellen Ward shares her
journey and how she helpsfirst-time visitors explore the
country with confidence.
Hi and welcome to the GlobalTravel Planning Podcast.
I'm your host, tracey Collins,who, with my expert guests, will
take you on a weekly journey todestinations around the globe,
(00:21):
providing travel inspiration,itinerary ideas, practical tips
and more to help you plan yournext travel adventure.
Hello and welcome to the GlobalTravel Planner Podcast.
This week, we're heading to oneof the most captivating,
(00:42):
colourful and complex countriesin the world India.
After my own six-week trip lastweek, I completely fell in love
with India's people, cultureand spirit, but I also saw how
overwhelming it can be forfirst-time visitors.
That's why I'm so excited to bejoined by Mariellen Ward, an
award-winning Canadian travelwriter, creator of the travel
blog Breathe Dream, breatheDream Go and co-founder of India
(01:05):
for Beginners, a custom tourcompany that helps first-time
visitors explore India withconfidence.
Mariellen has spent 20 yearstraveling, living in and writing
about India.
Today, we'll talk about herincredible personal journey, the
realities and myths oftraveling in India, practical
tips for first-timers, and howher company is helping travelers
(01:25):
, especially women, experienceIndia safely and meaningfully.
I started by asking Mary Ellento introduce herself and share
what first drew her to India.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, hi Tracy, thank you so much for having me on
your wonderful podcast.
So my name is Mary Ellen Wardand I am a Canadian travel
writer.
I'm from Toronto and 20 yearsago 20 years ago this year I
went to India for the first timeand I did a six month journey
of discovery across the lengthand breadth of India and that,
(01:59):
just you know, completelychanged my life and from there I
became that's when I became atravel writer.
I became a travel blogger laterand then, and then, much later
than that, I started a tourcompany.
And now I'm back and forthbetween Canada and India running
my blog, running my tourcompany and, just you know,
(02:20):
doing, doing what I love.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you've had an amazing journey over the last 20
years, and I think it was 2005.
Was it the first time that youactually experienced India?
And, and tell us about that,that first time that you went?
In fact, why did you chooseIndia?
Because I know I did read a bitabout the fact that you hadn't
traveled a huge amount before,so India is an interesting
(02:43):
destination to choose as yourkind of first jumping off point.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, it's like jumping into the deep end of the
pool, but that's not how Ithought of it.
There's a famous saying thatIndia chooses you.
It sounds a bit woo woo, but Iactually think that is true in
my case.
I was doing yoga teachertraining 21 years ago in Toronto
and I was partially taking thattraining to overcome depression
(03:10):
and grief.
I had a tremendous amount ofgrief over the death of my
parents and about my separationfrom my fiance, who canceled our
wedding, and a few other thingsas well, and I was really
struggling and I decided tothrow myself into yoga teacher
training.
And it was while I was in yogateacher training that I got this
sudden you know, unexplainablecompulsion to go to India, and I
(03:34):
just heard this voice inside.
You know that I needed to go toIndia and it was something I
just couldn't ignore.
It was something I justcouldn't ignore and I spent
about 11 months planning andsaving and finally, in December
of 2005, I got the courage toget on that plane and go to
(03:55):
India for the first time and Ihad a ticket dated six months
later and I literally didn'tknow, you know, whether I would
live through it.
I didn't know what would happen.
I just knew I was kind offighting for my life and I just
had to go and trust the process.
Now, as it turned out, theattitude I went with, as I found
(04:18):
out later, was the attitude ofa seeker.
What that means is that I justfelt that everything I
experienced was what was meantto happen and that I was meant
to learn from it and um, so Iwas very open to the experience.
I didn't have any preconceivedideas, I didn't have any goals
of how things should be and, uh,I wish I could take credit for
(04:42):
it, but it just just sort ofhappened the way it happened.
And it turned out that that'san absolutely great attitude to
take to India.
And the first day I was inDelhi, I went for a walk in a
park in South Delhi, a beautifulpark, and I had this uncanny
(05:02):
feeling that I'm home and itjust came out of the blue.
I never expected it.
It's still quite a mystery to meto this day, but that's what
happened.
And I have to tell you that,looking back on my life, of
course, when you look back, it'seasier to connect dots and I
(05:22):
can see so many times in my lifegoing way, way back, I mean,
when I was a teenager, mygirlfriend and I we went to see
Ravi Shankar perform.
You know, other people weregoing to rock bands and we went
to Ravi Shankar.
When I was even a child, Iremember seeing pictures of
George Harrison in Rishikesh andfeeling very drawn to him and
(05:43):
to those pictures, the sunlightand just how golden the pictures
are, because the sun in Indiais very yellow.
And I realized going back, youknow what I always wanted to go
to India.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's like you were on that journey, marie-hélène, and
it was kind of a journey thatyou had really no control of.
It was kind of taking youthrough and you are where you're
meant to be and doing whatyou're meant to do, and we'll
talk a little bit about the factthat you so you've got it you
started a travel blog and younow have a tour company that you
(06:19):
co-own as well, I believe.
So talk a little bit about howthat kind of developed as well.
I'm interested to kind of justyour kind of journey from
starting the travel writing tothen developing it.
Where you've got your own, youactually welcome visitors to
India.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, it's a really good question because it's not
obvious that it would go in thatdirection.
My background is journalismcommunications.
I've always my whole life, beenreally only ever interested in
being a communicator, a writer.
I have a degree in journalismand then I worked as a freelance
(06:58):
writer.
I've worked in communications,all of those things.
So when I originally went toIndia, I got the idea of doing a
travel blog.
Now that seems sort of a normalidea today, but in 2005, there
were no travel blogs.
I had to take a page out on asite called travelblogorg
(07:20):
because there was almost no, youknow, freestanding travel blogs
back then.
So it started like that.
It started casually.
I just started travel bloggingon travelblogorg for my first
three trips to India becauseafter that first six-month trip
I was hooked and I wanted to goback, I wanted to keep traveling
, I wanted to keep writing, andit wasn't until 2009 that I
(07:45):
started publishing Breathe DreamGo, which is my professional
travel blog.
And if you look at the OG travelbloggers, most of them started
around 2008, 2009.
That seems to be when travelblogging as a profession just
began.
Those are the very, very earlydays.
So that's what I did.
(08:06):
So then I just got very activeonline, you know, and as each
new.
This was before social media,by the way, but as the social
media platform started to comeup Facebook, twitter, eventually
Instagram I grabbed the BreatheDream Go handle, you know, on
every new platform.
And because I was active onlineand I was like very early,
(08:27):
don't forget I remember clearlythinking I have no competition
at that time because there wasno other foreigners who was
writing a travel blog aboutIndia.
I was, I was it At one time, Iwas literally it.
So so I became quite well known.
I got interviewed a lot andpeople got to know me and then
they started coming to me withquestions what do you recommend?
(08:49):
As you can imagine, right, yeah, and yeah, and it was really.
It was really from there thatthe idea germinated for doing
tours and, but they, but thatidea never, never, really took
root until I met my.
I got very lucky.
I met my business partner hisname's anjani and he's a great
guy, um and he was a youngish,youngish, early 30s.
(09:13):
When I met him, um, guy, whohad worked in the travel
industry in delhi and had juststarted his own company with a
small team, an excellent team,but a small team, a small team,
and I was lucky to meet him andwe launched the idea of doing
India for Beginners.
Initially we did a couple ofgroup tours, realized it wasn't
(09:35):
really a scalable model and thenhit on this idea of doing
custom tours, and that was in2019.
And the company was successfulalmost from the very beginning.
And that's that was in 2019.
And and the company was umsuccessful almost from the very
beginning and that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And we're six years on and obviously, uh, you offer
a variety of tours and we'lltalk about, uh, about how, what
sort of tours that you, you dooffer, how you, how people can
get in touch with you as well.
Um, because I must admit, I'vehad a look and I went, oh,
that'd be great, that soundsamazing, the fact that you can.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Exactly, If I can intercept just for a second, I
wanted to say that one of thereasons that I think the company
was successful from thebeginning was because we met a
gap in the market People whowant especially women who want
to go to India and they feelnervous and they need somebody
to hold their hand.
And that's kind of the mainthing that we do we solve that
(10:27):
pain point, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I think that's important we talked about
earlier, before we actuallystarted the podcast, and we were
just chatting about the factthat I went to India for the
first time last year for sixweeks.
But I was very lucky in that Ihave family who live in
Bangalore, so I was able to kindof bookend my trip with a week
with family and at the end witha week with family, because
(10:51):
India and I've traveledextensively throughout the world
, but India is like nowhere Ihave been before, nowhere.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, everyone says that, everybody says that.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And I loved it.
It just there's something sospecial about india and I, the
people, the color, the sounds,just I I can't even put it into
words, really I can't.
I just think there's justsomething that just speaks to
your soul, really reallygenuinely do.
And I think there are a lot ofkind of common misconceptions
(11:25):
about traveling to India and Imust admit, when I was, when I
figured out was gonna go tovisit, visit my brother and
sister-in-law in India, I was abit like, okay, right, I can
spend some time with them, but Ineed to then plan the rest of
the trip.
And there's me, I'm gonna gosolo.
How am I gonna do this?
So I did.
I did rope a couple ofgirlfriends in as well, but what
(11:45):
do you think some of thosecommon misconceptions are that
people have?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And how do you address them through your tours?
Basically, it's a really goodquestion, and just before I
answer it, I do want to say, Iwant to comment that I think
probably one of the reasons youhad such a great trip was
because you were grounded, youhad that family experience.
You landed in Bangalore and youhad your family members there
and having that kind of safe,grounded, especially initial
experience I think that's whathappened to me as well, by the
(12:18):
way, when I first got there in2005.
I was staying with a friend ofa friend in their family home in
Delhi, and I also had a gentlelanding, a soft landing, and I
also think that's the reason Ihad such a great trip, because I
felt that grounded safety, thatkind of safety net, and this is
(12:39):
exactly what we're trying to dowith India for Beginners.
We're trying to offer peoplethat experience, and so I think
that's actually a very importantpart of traveling in India is
to have somebody there that youcan trust.
But that's a good segue alsointo this.
Misconceptions Now, I think thebiggest misconception about
(13:02):
India is that it's dangerous.
Now, I think the biggestmisconception about India is
that it's dangerous.
I personally, I've spent 10years in India.
I think it's a very challengingdestination.
I think you have to be cautious.
I agree with all of that.
However, the media foreignmedia, the global media seems to
(13:26):
have painted it in a way thathas made people very afraid to
go there.
I don't.
I feel there's a big.
I have cognitive dissonanceabout that, because my
experience being on the groundin India is that people are very
warm and friendly and that mostof the time, I have never felt
anything more than justuncomfortable.
I have never felt anything morethan just uncomfortable.
I've rarely felt unsafe orthreatened or anything almost
(13:50):
maybe once or twice in 10 yearslike honestly so I feel that's a
huge misconception.
Another big misconception isthat India is poor.
Yes, there are poor people, butIndia is actually a very
wealthy nation.
It has a huge GDP and there'slots of very, very, very rich
people, lots of very posh, poshareas, beautiful airports.
(14:11):
You know gorgeous new trains.
The Vandabhar train is like aEuropean train.
You know there's there's awealth distribution problem in
India.
It's not that they're, it's nota rich country, it's that they
have this extreme wealthdistribution issues.
But even the poor people at thepoor end of the scale have been
(14:34):
lifted up a lot in the last 10or 15 years.
So the entire population, Ithink almost the entire
population has been lifted up.
So I think the abject povertyyou might have seen in the past
is probably less.
I've seen some statistics onthis, but I don't have them off
the top of my head.
So to me those are two hugemisconceptions.
(15:00):
Misconceptions, but I do haveto say though with a caveat, um
that there's one, one so-calleddanger, one issue that tourists
face that I that I don't thinkactually gets enough air time
which is that there's a lot ofscammers and con artists in
india.
So everybody's afraid to go toindia because they think there's
(15:21):
going to be violent crime.
And actually there's not thatmuch violent crime against
tourists from what I've seen,from the statistics I've seen.
But there is a lot of scammersand con artists and people who
are going to try to rip you off,and this, I think, is
underplayed in terms of theproblems tourists face oh, those
(15:42):
are interesting, those are.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Those are exactly, I guess, the two, the two
misconceptions that I had,because that's what you hear,
that it's, uh, it's extremelypoor.
They're just going to see a lotof poverty everywhere.
Yes, I did see some, but, but,as you say that there's a lot of
very, very wealthy, uh, peoplein india, uh, as well, and um,
(16:03):
the other one was the fact thatit was going to be dangerous and
that was my biggest fear and myhusband was like I don't want
to go in there on your own, blah, blah, blah, it's not safe.
I, I, I was there for six weekson a, you know, I know it's
only a short, short, little time, but I, I could not believe how
friendly everyone was there,just there, the amount of times
(16:27):
that people came up to me andsaid where have you come from?
Why did you choose?
Well, why did you just decide tocome to india?
We're so happy that you cameand like, what have you seen?
Where have you been?
You know, and I remember,actually, at bangalore airport,
when I was leaving and a younggirl came up to me and she was
with, um, her maybe, I think,was leaving, and a young girl
came up to me and she was withher.
Maybe I think it was hergrandparents, and they wanted to
(16:49):
speak to me.
But she came to me first to askif it was OK, and then we had a
big conversation and they werejust saying we're so happy that
you chose to come to India.
Can we have a photo with you?
Which happens a lot, but it wasjust so lovely right from the
minute I set foot in India thatthe sheer welcome that you feel
(17:09):
is.
It's just absolutely fabulousit really was.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I many, many, many people I talked to, many women
especially say they were sonervous to go and then they went
there and they, their wholeperception of India changed.
It wasn't what they thought.
It was wealthier, more modernand kinder and friendlier than
they ever anticipated, whichjust goes to show you that the
global media has really, reallydone a number on India.
(17:39):
But I will say that the scamartists are a problem and it's a
very big reason why I startedmy company.
India for beginners is like, ifyou travel with us, you are
protected from the scammers.
Um, they're mostly in thehospitality industry, travel,
fake, uh, fraudulent travelcompanies, tour operators, um,
(18:01):
and also in um, in terms of themarket, you, you know people
selling fakes, fake rugs, fakepashminas, fake jewelry and
things like that.
So one of our big sellingpoints although this is hard to
express this to people Like,we've had people go on tour with
us and go, hey, india wasn'tthat bad, everything went really
(18:21):
smoothly.
And it's like I want to say,well, yeah, that's because you
were with us.
You know Exactly, exactly.
But it's hard if you haven'tgone to India and experienced
the incredible shrewdness andcreativity of the scammers, you
know, honestly, if there was anOlympic event, I think India
(18:42):
would get the gold.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think that's such an excellent point that you're
making there, mary-ellen.
In fact, you know, I had awonderful, wonderful time when I
was in India, but again, I waswith a company that were
protecting me from scammers,from those issues.
So there was always somebodybetween us and people who were
(19:07):
trying to do that, as innegotiating and making sure that
everything was above board andthat that wasn't going to happen
.
And you're right, it wasprobably more than I expected to
see that those kind ofopportunities people would try
to get in to perhaps you know,scam you out of your money and
you know that sort of thing.
(19:27):
So if somebody's arriving anddecided that they're going to go
to India and they're flyinginto Delhi or Mumbai or
Bangalore for the first time,what would be your advice that
you would give them to help themacclimate to actually arriving
into India?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, just before we jump into arriving into India,
let's talk a little.
Can we talk a little bit aboutpreparation?
Because I think, yeah, prepare,preparing for your um journey
is very, very important and it'sa really big thing we do.
Myself as a blogger and also asa tour operator, a really big
thing that I do, um and we do asa company is to help people
(20:03):
prepare for India.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, and so, like we always send a very extensive
email.
I'm in a wonderful situationwhere I have all these blog
posts I've written, so I sendpeople this long email with
links to all different blogposts and they can read up on.
I've got one, for instance, howto avoid getting sick in India,
with lots of tips.
I've got one on what to pack,what to wear, so we go into
(20:35):
clothing, we go into.
I've got one about money, howdo you pay for things, and
tipping like what's the tippingculture?
Like you know, I think doingresearch upfront it goes a long
way for in a place like likeIndia, and if you're not
traveling with a company thathelps you with your itinerary,
then definitely making sure thatyou develop a really good
itinerary, anything you can doto prepare yourself and
(20:57):
researching before you go, isgoing to, it's really going to
help you.
That's not true for many, youknow every country, but it's
it's really true for India.
So I think if you come, it's aninteresting combination.
Try to come open, like open tothe country without a lot of
preconceived ideas but at thesame time, having done some
basic research so you know theropes a little bit.
(21:21):
That combination, I think isthe best combination for
arriving in India.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I don't even I can't evenbelieve that I missed that
question out, because I'm allabout planning, yeah about
making sure that you're uh,you're planned for it and, and I
know, when I was planning it,those kind of basic questions
like, um, just even about money,like how do I access money, um,
what do I wear, was a huge,huge question.
That that we all were talkingto each other about.
(21:50):
What do we wear, what do wepack, what is okay?
And I asked a lot for mysister-in-law, I mean, I was
like what, you know what, what,what is okay for me?
Where is this going to be allright?
What should I avoid?
Um, and it's actually some alot of.
It was actually what shouldn'tI do as well, what do I need to
not, yeah, because I thinkthat's also important to to kind
of be aware of that.
You don't want to do the youknow things that are wrong right
(22:12):
from the second second that youset foot in a country as well.
Um so, yes, I know you've gotall those.
You've got all those articleson your website which are really
helpful and just to prepare youbefore you actually get on the
plane to arrive.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, very much so.
So then when you arrive, I meanI think you do have to be alert
for scammers, but at the sametime, you know, I can tell from
my personal experience, andprobably you too, that being as
open as you can, with as fewjudgments and preconceptions as
you can, and just being open tothe experience Okay, india, what
do you got, you know, like youknow, is definitely the best way
(22:52):
to arrive.
But in terms of on thepractical side, I definitely
recommend a reliable pickup atthe airport.
I think that's when you firstget there, it's India's
overwhelming and even if youdon't buy into all the fear
mongering and you're not afraidwhich is good you shouldn't be,
but you still it's veryoverwhelming and, like I say,
(23:12):
there's a lot of scam artistswho are going to be standing at
the airport looking for thepeople with have that deer in
the headlights look.
So, having a reliable pickup atthe airport and I I'm a huge
homestay fan I totally recommendstaying at a homestay, like I
have my homestay in Delhi.
I'm quite well known for stayingat Prakash Kutir in South Delhi
(23:32):
and I always recommend SouthDelhi.
It's a more residentialneighborhood, it's got a homier
feeling, so you get that likewhat we were talking about
earlier.
When you stay in a homestay youget that grounded, family, safe
feeling and I personally feelsafer in a homestay than I do in
a hotel.
That's me personally.
I know some people don't feelthat way, but I know at Prakash
(23:54):
Kutir they lock that gate atnight and I can tell you nobody
is getting by Mrs Gupta.
You know I'm Mrs Gupta's on theground floor.
I'm upstairs.
Nobody is getting by Mrs Gupta.
I feel completely safe underher wing.
I've been staying in thathomestay on and off over about
nine years and it's been awonderful experience.
I'm a member of the family now,but even if you stayed there for
(24:18):
a couple days, you'd be amember of the family.
Like that's what it's like, youknow.
So I think those two things goa really, really long way.
And then, for the first day inDelhi, I always recommend going
to Central Delhi, which is thearea that was built by the
(24:39):
British.
It's very leafy, it's verygreen, it's very posh and
there's a beautiful park there,lodi Garden.
There's a beautiful UNESCOheritage site.
Humayun's Tomb Khan Market is agreat market, for it's the
expat market.
Basically, there's lots ofgreat cafes there and they're
all in the same area and you cansort of get the taste of Delhi
(25:01):
without diving into thecraziness of old Delhi.
You can do that on the secondday.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I think those are good tips.
Delhi is a place I didn't spenda huge amount of time in.
I think it was kind of likeafter the first tour and then
after, when we got back there, Iwas just so exhausted by that
point I just thought I need togive Delhi my full attention.
So it's definitely I'd like tospend far longer and a lot of
places that I went to last timethat I kind of fell in love with
(25:31):
and was like I need to comeback and experience more of this
, and there are such.
There are so many destinations,so many places to choose from
in India and there's such,there's such difference as you
travel around the country aswell.
So so how do you recommend,like when first-time travelers
are trying to choose where to go?
Do you have any particularregions or experiences?
(25:53):
You go.
These will be, you know, greatthings to include.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know, we run a custom tour company, so we
always try to customize theitinerary as per the person's
travel style, their interests.
So there's not anywhere setplace that I recommend.
But because my company iscalled India for Beginners, so
that means mostly we're gettingfirst timers to India.
Most people want to see the TajMahal.
(26:18):
I understand why they want tosee the Taj Mahal.
But I have to tell you, when Ifirst came to India, I traveled
for six months and I didn't gosee the Taj Mahal.
But I have to tell you, when Ifirst came to India, I traveled
for six months and I didn't gosee the Taj Mahal until month
number four.
I didn't go directly to see theTaj Mahal.
You don't have to.
I mean, there's lots of amazingthings to see.
You don't have to go to the TajMahal, although, like I said,
(26:39):
when people say they want to go,I respect that.
I don't try to talk them out ofit, believe me.
So going to the Taj, flyinginto Delhi and going to the Taj
Mahal means you're probablydoing the golden triangle, which
is, you know, delhi, agra andthe Taj Mahal, and then Jaipur,
and these these cities are in atriangle.
They're about five hours drivebetween each one.
So most first timers do thegolden triangle.
(27:02):
That's just the way it is.
I'm not going to be able tochange that in my lifetime, I
don't think, unless there's alot of more creative marketing
that comes along.
So what we do is we try toweave in some interesting
offbeat experiences or offbeatdestinations within that
itinerary, because we're goingto be definitely following that
(27:26):
for a lot of people.
Sanctuary near Agra, so we'lltake people there so that you
know the money it costs to gothere funds their wonderful
resources.
Or we'll take people to a placelike Dera Amir.
(27:49):
It's a beautiful wildernesscamp where you can just go.
You don't have to stayovernight, if you don't want to,
you can just go for the day,and they also have rescued
elephants, um, you can see, Ilike elephants.
Yeah, elephants and tigers aremy two favorite animals, and so
we this.
This is what we try, what wetry to do now.
For for some people, though,don't feel that way, they don't
(28:11):
need to go to the taj mahal, um,some people want to go to south
india.
So we will recommend keralaover goa.
I think goa is just tootouristy, um, but kerala is an
amazing destination that retainsits culture and it's
fascinating.
It's also a soft landing andthere's a lot of different
experiences you can have inkerala.
But for myself, if somebodyjust comes to me and says okay
(28:34):
and believe me, this almostnever happens.
But if somebody came to me andsaid, okay, you put the
itinerary together, I'll gowherever you say, I would take
them to madhya pradesh.
Madhya pradesh, which is in thecenter of india.
It's the, it's literally theycall it the heart of india.
It's right in the middle.
It's one of my favorite statesand it doesn't get a huge amount
(28:57):
of foreign tourists, but it'san absolutely amazing place.
You have historic sites likethere's an abandoned city called
Mandu.
It's unbelievable.
It should be so much morefamous.
There's these beautiful tinylittle small towns that have
these ancient structures andtemples, like Orchha, which is
(29:19):
incredible.
You have the best tigerreserves in India, for sure.
Kanna Tiger Reserve is numberone in my opinion.
And then you have a place likeMaheshwar, which is literally
magical, and I love Maheshwar.
I mean, you have to see it tobelieve, you have to experience
it to believe it.
And so many of these places arejust, they're just not marketed
(29:42):
.
They're people you know,they're just not marketed, so
people don't know about them.
But if they knew about them,believe me, they would want to
go.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Well, I tell you I want to go.
You're just talking about it.
I'm like, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'mup for that, I want to go, I
want to see, I just want to, Iwant to explore and see more.
It's really funny because thatyou say.
But I saw the taj mahal,obviously, when I was over, and
absolutely respect everybody whowants to see it.
It's, it's high on my.
My husband would love to to seeit.
Um, but for me, kerala wasfabulous.
(30:09):
It's just so beautiful.
It it really is.
You can't, you can't put thatinto words actually as well,
because, well, because it's just, it's so peaceful, so beautiful
.
You know, I don't know, it wasvery special.
And the other place that Iabsolutely fell in love with and
I'm probably going to say thename wrong, so you're going to
have to help me out here alittle bit Marie-Ellen is
Jaisalmer.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Jaisalmer.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, Jaisalmer.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I loved it.
Jaisalmer it's a fairy tale.
It's a sand castle.
Jaisalmer is one of my favoriteplaces in India.
It's literally magical.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I totally fell in love with it.
And then going out to the TharDesert as well.
We actually slept in the TharDesert, which was just fabulous.
But there was just somethingabout Jaisalmer that I just and
I'd already by that point Ithink this was maybe week three
I'd done a couple of weeks insouthern India and then flown up
to do from that kind of goldentriangle, but with extras.
(31:07):
But Jaisalmer was just, it'sthe one place.
When I said to my husband whenwe're going to plan to go back,
I said we're definitely,definitely going to go there.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Well, I mean, I live in Rajasthan.
I get it.
I moved to Rajasthan.
Jaipur, where I live, is thecapital of Rajasthan.
Rajasthan is a fairy tale.
It's a storybook.
It's beautiful.
I mean, it is one of the morehighly touristed parts of India,
but it still retains itsoriginal culture.
It hasn't been, culture hasn'tbeen ruined in any way.
(31:36):
And there culture, it hasn'tbeen, culture hasn't been ruined
in any way.
Um, and it's, it's.
There's a reason people gothere.
It's, it's magnificentlybeautiful.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You know, like it's beautiful and desert and the
medieval forts and the yeah, noyeah, I just, I love color, so I
, I just love the vibrancyaround me, and that's the first
thing I think about when I thinkof j Jyotsana.
There just seemed to be so muchcolor everywhere.
Everywhere just was just sovibrant.
And the smells, again, indiareally feeds your senses.
It really really does, andthat's the thing I think that
(32:08):
you'll.
It's the sounds and the smellsand the sights and all of those,
everything will become, will beheightened and be alive, I
think, with that.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
And you can get addicted to that yeah, oh, yeah,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Oh, I can easily see how that can happen easily.
Uh, 100 percent, uh.
And yeah, I can't wait toreturn, honestly, but I want to,
I want to spend longer, I wantto go long.
I mean, I was there six weekslast time, which is not a bad
amount of time, but but I wantto spend longer there,
definitely, um, now we'retalking a little bit about, you
know, cultural sensitivity I didtalk a little bit about.
(32:45):
We were prepared, or we werethinking about, you know what?
What should we wear?
What should we not wear?
Um, so so what would you?
What would you say?
That people should be aware ofum, so that they, you know, they
ensure that they haverespectful interactions.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, I'm so glad you're asking about cultural
sensitivity.
It's a big topic with me.
I'm I feel, very, very seriousabout it because India is an
extremely fast changing place.
Like, I've been going 20 yearsand it's like, in some ways, a
different country, but in someways it's not at all.
I mean, it's a traditionalculture.
(33:18):
Underneath, when you scratchthe surface, it's still a very
traditional culture and I thinkpeople need to understand that.
You can look at Bollywoodmovies or maybe go to one of the
big metros, mumbai especially,and it can fool you a little bit
into thinking that India isvery modern and westernized and
(33:39):
it is in many ways.
But as a foreigner visitingIndia, I personally this is
something I feel very stronglyabout.
I think it behooves you to erron the side of caution and show
respect for the culture.
Read the room, you know.
You know I live there, but Istill wear very modest clothing.
(33:59):
I I dress dress completelydifferently here in toronto when
I'm in india.
I wear very modest clothing,very flowy, long flowy things,
you know, and um, I also thinkthat, um, I think we have to be
aware that the genders relatedifferently and that there is a
social hierarchy and learningabout these things and you may
(34:22):
not like it, but it's.
It's really not not your placeto judge it or to try to change
it.
I think being respectful ofthose things is important.
It's a shoes off nation, soshoes off when you go to
people's houses, shoes off attemples.
So, again, just be aware ofthat and be respectful of that.
(34:42):
I think one of the mostimportant things is to be very
respectful of religion.
There's many religions in India.
The predominant one is Hinduism, but there's many religions and
being very respectful of thereligion, of the gods of temples
If they say don't take photos,don't take photos.
I mean, I've seen a lot ofphotos of the burning gods in
(35:04):
Varanasi on social media andthat is just a huge cultural
taboo.
You are not supposed to takepictures of burning bodies and
it really saddens me to see thatthis is happening.
Pure veg vegetarianism is awonderful thing in India.
It's also a serious thing inIndia.
(35:24):
So if you're in an ashram or ifyou're in a pure veg
environment, please be pure veg.
Don't bring eggs or meat oranything.
That's when you're in a sacredspace.
Please observe that.
And the very last thing I wouldsay is, like all of Asia, it's
very important to not lose, notlose patience, to not show anger
(35:48):
.
In Asia it's it's a taboo toyou know, to put people in a
situation where they lose face,and this is true in India as
well.
So, just you know, to putpeople in a situation where they
lose face, and this is true inIndia as well.
So, just you know, be politeand firm, but polite, and you
know, just try to always treatpeople with respect.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I think that's.
Those are absolutely perfectexamples of you know how to be
in India.
You are when you, you are there, when you're experiencing it.
One question I wanted to askbecause it happened a lot to me,
um is that I was asked to havea lot of photos.
Everybody was very respectful,very respectful and, um, I was
(36:32):
happy to have loads of pictureswith, uh, women, with families,
and just the amount of.
In fact, the first time wasactually outside Bangalore
Airport and a man came up to meand said my wife would like to
have a photo with you, and I wasa bit OK, and then I got used
to it throughout the whole trip.
It just happened constantly.
So that was one thing, so kindof that wasn't a problem.
(36:52):
But then I also wanted to havephotographs with a lot of the
beautiful women that I saw andjust so beautifully dressed.
So I asked Often it would bethey'd ask first if they want a
picture with me and then, well,can I have a picture with you?
But there were times where Ijust wanted to and I just went
up to women and just said, canwe have a photo together?
And I was never sure if thatwas OK to do, so I thought I'm
(37:15):
going to ask you now.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
It's OK to do if you ask.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh yeah, I would never do it without asking yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, I mean, as long as you ask, absolutely for sure
.
But I think women and childrenespecially are a little bit shy,
you know, about having theirphotos taken.
So, yeah, you have to be veryrespectful of that and not
putting photos of childrenonline, obviously.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Just, I think you know Indians are very easygoing
overall and quite fluid, youknow, and they don't take
offense.
You know the way Westernerscould take offense at things.
You know they're not like thatmostly.
I think.
That's my experience anyway.
So I think if you just if youjust ask and they say no and
just respect that, yeah, it'sfine.
(38:07):
You know, and if people want totake your photo and you want to
say no, that's fine.
Also, you're allowed to say no,and I do all the time.
I won't get my photo taken withmen or boys, I will only get my
photo taken with families orchildren or women, and that's
one of my personal rules and Idon't bend that, and so I just
say no okay, no, that's fairenough.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I I think there must be there must be thousands of
photos of me now in India,because it felt it felt like
there was a lot of photos that Ihave got blonde hair and I
don't know if that was also partof the part of the attraction,
because I've got very fair hair,which did gain a little bit of
attention, and you also do aswell, marie-ellen, so I guess
(38:47):
that that also may have been oneof the reasons.
Now I know your company, indiafor Beginners.
It kind of emphasizessustainable and authentic travel
experiences, so so how do theyincorporate those values into
your tours?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
um, well, we do it a number of ways.
I would say the number one waythat we we, we do this um is to,
uh, we patronize localbusinesses, like we book people
into locally owned homestays andguest houses, for example, and
just wherever we can, we'll usea local business.
We try not to patronize globalmultinational hotel chains and
(39:28):
things like that.
And wherever we can, we hirewomen.
There's not that many womenworking in tourism, but we
always try to hire women guides.
We have women guides for theTaj Mahal, and going to the Taj
Mahal with a woman guide isdifferent than going with a male
guide.
It is a different experience.
I can tell you this for sure.
You get a whole different takeon things, and so, also, we're
(39:53):
always trying to incorporatelocal experiences.
Like we live there.
I mean, I've lived in Delhi fora long time.
I live in Jaipur, my team alllives in Delhi.
We know people, so like you cando a Bollywood dance class with
my business partner's sister,for example, or our friends we
have the team has friends thatrun a homestay in Jaipur.
(40:15):
They live in a very authenticmedieval structure across from
the city palace and they inviteour guests to go there for a
cooking demo and dinner, andyou're right there with the
family.
They've got two little girlswho are super bright and really
fun.
So you're right there with thefamily.
(40:36):
And I mentioned Wildlife SOS.
We also.
There's certain worthwhileorganizations that we really
like, wildlife SOS being aperfect example that we just try
to patronize and we try tosupport them and take.
If people say to us, oh, I wantto, you know, see an elephant
or whatever, well, we'd rathertake them to an elephant rescue
center than to a place that youknow treats them badly like,
(40:59):
lets you ride them or something.
There's no elephant riding.
We don't allow any elephantriding on our tours and we also
get to know specialty tourcompanies like the Blue Yonder
and Kochi are doing an amazingjob with local experiences.
There's a wonderful guy inJaipur.
His company is called SeagullJaunt and he is a character and
(41:23):
he'll take you in the backalleys and he'll show you places
even people from Jaipur havenever seen.
I work with a wonderful companycalled the Folk Tales and
Gaurav is very well-known forsupporting especially up in
northeast India.
He supports local storytellersand local homestay owners.
So always trying to build thisnetwork of people who are doing
(41:46):
this.
You know kind of grassroots,you know alternative forms of
tourism, and that's somethingwe're always working on.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, and I think it's so important and you've got
you know, you've got the theground in there, you've got
those connections there so youcan, you can build on that and
you get to know people and youknow, I think that is invaluable
.
It really is that you're not,you know, you're based there for
most of the year and you knowyou have those contacts, those
contacts which, honestly, itreally is.
It's something that I do for myUK travel.
(42:20):
It's having those localconnections and you know people
trust that because you, you havethings, that you have access
that they can't, they can't doand um, and it's just say you,
can you make sure that thingsare, you know, ethical and they
are.
I was a bit shocked, I have tosay, when I think it was a red
fort, when I saw that peoplewere riding elephants.
I was like, no, what?
(42:41):
Yeah, so it, yeah, that thatit's.
It's so good that you know allof those things.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You, you, you check everything, you make sure
everything is absolutely yeah,yeah, you have to live in the
destination and you have to livethere.
And I've been there over thepast 20 years and you know I've
got solo female travelers whoI've done itineraries for and
they're literally going from myfriend's guest house to my
friend's tour, to my friend's.
You know, they're going from myfriend to my friend to my
(43:10):
friend to my friend my friend'sashram, and then I just WhatsApp
the owner.
All these people are my friends, I watch them.
Hey, how's she doing?
You know they have no idea thatwe're.
You know that they're envelopedin this kind of circle of care.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
So that's priceless Marianne.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
It's priceless.
It is priceless.
Thank you for saying that, Iagree.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, now I'm going to ask you.
I usually put people on thespot with this one, but I did
prepare you a bit because I knowthis might be easy for you,
might be hard, but how can youencapsulate India in three words
, can you?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
No, it's impossible.
I mean, I became a bloggerbecause I literally have written
millions, literally millions ofwords, trying to capture the
experience of what it was likefor me to go to India and how it
just blew open my life.
You know, it just changed me inevery way and it was India was
my muse, you know, as a, as acreative person.
(44:06):
So to put it down into threewords of course is is crazy, but
I did come up with three words.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Okay.
So, uh, for what it's worth,magical yeah, I agree, and it's
overwhelming in a wonderful wayas well sometimes, I think so I
think, yeah, uh, I think, I mustadmit, I remember delhi
(44:35):
thinking this is, it's verynoisy, very, very noisy, but
again, it's that that the senses.
So I think you have to expectit.
But I think, uh, so I think youhave to expect it, but I think,
magical, absolutely, it justtotally is, and it's, yes,
exactly.
I think you've hit the nail.
I know it was very difficult,but I think you've hit the nail
on the head for those, thosethree words.
(44:56):
Now I know you've, you'veguided many people, whether it's
through your website, throughyou, obviously, through your
writings and through your tours.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
But is there a particular story or piece of
feedback from a traveler thatstands out.
There's been some wonderful, ofcourse, experiences that I've
had, getting to know our guests,but there's two, actually, that
I want to mention.
One of them was and both ofthese women have become friends,
by the way One is an Americanlady named Leslie who came on
our Holi tour.
(45:29):
We had a very transformativeexperience together.
We played Holi, the groupplayed Holi in Rishikesh.
We got covered in color inRishikesh.
We played it privately in anashram, so it was safe, but we
got completely drenched in color.
And when we got back to ourhotel, which was right on the
Ganga, right on the Holy RiverGanges, which is really called
(45:51):
the Ganga, I invited them tohave a dip in the Ganga, and
this is something that we do inRishikesh.
I lived in Rishikesh for fouryears and it's something that we
do.
You just dive in with yourcolors on.
And only one person out of thegroup of women came in the river
with me and that was Leslie.
And the Gunga is famous forbeing a very holy river, a
(46:12):
healing river, and she had aspontaneous outpouring of grief
over her son's death and I thinkshe got rid of.
I don't know.
I mean, something happened toher.
She had a very transformativeexperience and she later she
wrote a blog post for usactually it's on the India for
Beginners website and she saidthat when she got back home to
(46:41):
US, people said to her that shehad changed and that she was
radiated, looked radiant, andthat she had changed, and that's
how she felt.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
She's come back to India twice since then, by the
way, I'm not surprised it drawsyou back in and, having such an
amazing experience on her firsttrip, you can understand.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
It was a big experience for me too, just to
see, to see her go through that.
That was very meaningful for me.
And another one was Colleen.
And Colleen is from Canadashe's from Victoria actually and
she told me that if she hadn'tfound my site you know
Canadian-owned tour company thatshe probably wouldn't have gone
(47:18):
to India.
But she always wanted to go toIndia and she also.
I saw her at the beginning inDelhi, prakash Kutir, and I saw
her at the end again in PrakashKutir and she had changed.
She was a different person.
Her face had changed, she hadchanged from her tours around
India and I think she traveledfor six weeks or something like
that and she actually went back.
(47:39):
She just went back last monthfor her second time and this
time she brought her niece and Isaw her.
I was just leaving for Canadathe next day, the day after she
arrived, but I got a chance tosee her and her niece and we
went shopping together and itwas a wonderful experience to
see her again and again, aperson who'd been transformed.
So that's my goal, my loftygoal, is for Pete Mark, our
(48:03):
guest, to be transformed.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I think that's a wonderful goal and, um, I think
india, india and combined withwith your tours, are gonna are
gonna create that, that uhtransformation for people.
Do you genuinely believe thatnow?
Uh, what would be one tip?
I always end the podcast.
I'm really sad to end thepodcast because I think I could
talk to you for hours, mariellen, and maybe we'll you're going
to come on again and we'll maybetalk about some some of the.
I'm really sad to end thepodcast because I think I could
(48:30):
talk to you for hours,marie-hélène, and maybe you're
going to come on again and we'llmaybe talk about some of the
different destinations in Indiaas well.
That would be really cool.
But what would be the one tipthat you'd share with anybody
planning to visit India for thefirst time?
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I think the most important thing is to plan your
trip based on the weather.
The weather in India is extreme.
So, for just an example,october and November and
February to April is perfect forNorth India, but December and
January in North India is coldand foggy and smoggy.
(49:01):
It's not nice.
So you need to know thatNovember to March for South
India is perfect.
The whole winter is perfect forSouth India, it's perfect.
The whole winter is perfect forSouth India.
But it's not nice in the summer, unless you want to do monsoon
travel.
Like, if you specifically wantto do monsoon travel in July and
August, that can be planned,but knowing that you're going in
(49:22):
the monsoon, it's a differentmindset.
And then, if you want to go tothe mountains, ideally I would
go March to May, for example,because it's much cooler up
there and so when it gets reallyhot in the plains you can go up
into the mountains, the hillstations.
There's a lot of hill stationsand mountainous areas.
Of course, the Himalaya rangeruns right down the side of
(49:44):
India.
So, yeah, pay attention to theweather.
My second tip would be to payattention to festivals, because
you know festivals like Diwaliespecially.
I would say figure out whenDiwali is and and plan
accordingly, you can't reallymove around for a couple of days
.
During Diwali in North India,traffic is at a standstill.
(50:06):
During Diwali in North India,traffic is at a standstill.
So find a nice homestay andenjoy Diwali and don't move
around during Diwali.
So there's just these bigforces in India that you would
be wise to pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's been absolutely fantastic to talk to you this
week, mariel, and I've beenlooking forward to chatting to
you for such a long time, sinceI met you a few years ago at a
TBEX conference in Thailand, soI was so chuffed when you agreed
to come on and share your lovefor India.
I will share links to yourcompany and to your website as
well, but it's been fabulouschatting to you and I hope to be
(50:42):
able to do so again soon.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
And it's been wonderful to be here.
Thank to be able to do so againsoon, and it's been wonderful
to be here.
Thank you so much for having me, and I'd like to end our
podcast with a quote by TracyCollins, who said India isn't a
destination, it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Let it change you.
A huge thank you to Mariellenonce again for sharing her story
and such thoughtful insightsinto travelling through India.
If you're considering a tripand want expert help planning it
, you'll find all the links toBreathe, dream, go and India for
Beginners in the show notes atglobaltravelplanningcom.
Forward slash, episode 64.
But until next time, as alwaysfrom me, happy global travel
(51:22):
planning.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of the Global
Travel Planning Podcast.
For more details and links toeverything we discussed today,
check out the show notes atglobaltravelplanningcom.
Remember, if you enjoyed theshow, please consider leaving us
a review on your favoritepodcast app, because your
feedback helps us reach moretravel enthusiasts, just like
(51:42):
you.
Anyway, that leaves me to say,as always, happy global travel
planning.
India is vibrant, intense and unforgettable.
This week, travel writerMariellen Ward shares her
journey and how she helpsfirst-time visitors explore the
country with confidence.
Hi and welcome to the GlobalTravel Planning Podcast.
I'm your host, tracey Collins,who, with my expert guests, will
take you on a weekly journey todestinations around the globe,
(00:21):
providing travel inspiration,itinerary ideas, practical tips
and more to help you plan yournext travel adventure.
Hello and welcome to the GlobalTravel Planner Podcast.
This week, we're heading to oneof the most captivating,
(00:42):
colourful and complex countriesin the world India.
After my own six-week trip lastweek, I completely fell in love
with India's people, cultureand spirit, but I also saw how
overwhelming it can be forfirst-time visitors.
That's why I'm so excited to bejoined by Mariellen Ward, an
award-winning Canadian travelwriter, creator of the travel
blog Breathe Dream, breatheDream Go and co-founder of India
(01:05):
for Beginners, a custom tourcompany that helps first-time
visitors explore India withconfidence.
Mariellen has spent 20 yearstraveling, living in and writing
about India.
Today, we'll talk about herincredible personal journey, the
realities and myths oftraveling in India, practical
tips for first-timers, and howher company is helping travelers
(01:25):
, especially women, experienceIndia safely and meaningfully.
I started by asking Mary Ellento introduce herself and share
what first drew her to India.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, hi Tracy, thank you so much for having me on
your wonderful podcast.
So my name is Mary Ellen Wardand I am a Canadian travel
writer.
I'm from Toronto and 20 yearsago 20 years ago this year I
went to India for the first timeand I did a six month journey
of discovery across the lengthand breadth of India and that,
(01:59):
just you know, completelychanged my life and from there I
became that's when I became atravel writer.
I became a travel blogger laterand then, and then, much later
than that, I started a tourcompany.
And now I'm back and forthbetween Canada and India running
my blog, running my tourcompany and, just you know,
(02:20):
doing, doing what I love.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you've had an amazing journey over the last 20
years, and I think it was 2005.
Was it the first time that youactually experienced India?
And, and tell us about that,that first time that you went?
In fact, why did you chooseIndia?
Because I know I did read a bitabout the fact that you hadn't
traveled a huge amount before,so India is an interesting
(02:43):
destination to choose as yourkind of first jumping off point.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, it's like jumping into the deep end of the
pool, but that's not how Ithought of it.
There's a famous saying thatIndia chooses you.
It sounds a bit woo woo, but Iactually think that is true in
my case.
I was doing yoga teachertraining 21 years ago in Toronto
and I was partially taking thattraining to overcome depression
(03:10):
and grief.
I had a tremendous amount ofgrief over the death of my
parents and about my separationfrom my fiance, who canceled our
wedding, and a few other thingsas well, and I was really
struggling and I decided tothrow myself into yoga teacher
training.
And it was while I was in yogateacher training that I got this
sudden you know, unexplainablecompulsion to go to India, and I
(03:34):
just heard this voice inside.
You know that I needed to go toIndia and it was something I
just couldn't ignore.
It was something I justcouldn't ignore and I spent
about 11 months planning andsaving and finally, in December
of 2005, I got the courage toget on that plane and go to
(03:55):
India for the first time and Ihad a ticket dated six months
later and I literally didn'tknow, you know, whether I would
live through it.
I didn't know what would happen.
I just knew I was kind offighting for my life and I just
had to go and trust the process.
Now, as it turned out, theattitude I went with, as I found
(04:18):
out later, was the attitude ofa seeker.
What that means is that I justfelt that everything I
experienced was what was meantto happen and that I was meant
to learn from it and um, so Iwas very open to the experience.
I didn't have any preconceivedideas, I didn't have any goals
of how things should be and, uh,I wish I could take credit for
(04:42):
it, but it just just sort ofhappened the way it happened.
And it turned out that that'san absolutely great attitude to
take to India.
And the first day I was inDelhi, I went for a walk in a
park in South Delhi, a beautifulpark, and I had this uncanny
(05:02):
feeling that I'm home and itjust came out of the blue.
I never expected it.
It's still quite a mystery to meto this day, but that's what
happened.
And I have to tell you that,looking back on my life, of
course, when you look back, it'seasier to connect dots and I
(05:22):
can see so many times in my lifegoing way, way back, I mean,
when I was a teenager, mygirlfriend and I we went to see
Ravi Shankar perform.
You know, other people weregoing to rock bands and we went
to Ravi Shankar.
When I was even a child, Iremember seeing pictures of
George Harrison in Rishikesh andfeeling very drawn to him and
(05:43):
to those pictures, the sunlightand just how golden the pictures
are, because the sun in Indiais very yellow.
And I realized going back, youknow what I always wanted to go
to India.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's like you were on that journey, marie-hélène, and
it was kind of a journey thatyou had really no control of.
It was kind of taking youthrough and you are where you're
meant to be and doing whatyou're meant to do, and we'll
talk a little bit about the factthat you so you've got it you
started a travel blog and younow have a tour company that you
(06:19):
co-own as well, I believe.
So talk a little bit about howthat kind of developed as well.
I'm interested to kind of justyour kind of journey from
starting the travel writing tothen developing it.
Where you've got your own, youactually welcome visitors to
India.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, it's a really good question because it's not
obvious that it would go in thatdirection.
My background is journalismcommunications.
I've always my whole life, beenreally only ever interested in
being a communicator, a writer.
I have a degree in journalismand then I worked as a freelance
(06:58):
writer.
I've worked in communications,all of those things.
So when I originally went toIndia, I got the idea of doing a
travel blog.
Now that seems sort of a normalidea today, but in 2005, there
were no travel blogs.
I had to take a page out on asite called travelblogorg
(07:20):
because there was almost no, youknow, freestanding travel blogs
back then.
So it started like that.
It started casually.
I just started travel bloggingon travelblogorg for my first
three trips to India becauseafter that first six-month trip
I was hooked and I wanted to goback, I wanted to keep traveling
, I wanted to keep writing, andit wasn't until 2009 that I
(07:45):
started publishing Breathe DreamGo, which is my professional
travel blog.
And if you look at the OG travelbloggers, most of them started
around 2008, 2009.
That seems to be when travelblogging as a profession just
began.
Those are the very, very earlydays.
So that's what I did.
(08:06):
So then I just got very activeonline, you know, and as each
new.
This was before social media,by the way, but as the social
media platform started to comeup Facebook, twitter, eventually
Instagram I grabbed the BreatheDream Go handle, you know, on
every new platform.
And because I was active onlineand I was like very early,
(08:27):
don't forget I remember clearlythinking I have no competition
at that time because there wasno other foreigners who was
writing a travel blog aboutIndia.
I was, I was it At one time, Iwas literally it.
So so I became quite well known.
I got interviewed a lot andpeople got to know me and then
they started coming to me withquestions what do you recommend?
(08:49):
As you can imagine, right, yeah, and yeah, and it was really.
It was really from there thatthe idea germinated for doing
tours and, but they, but thatidea never, never, really took
root until I met my.
I got very lucky.
I met my business partner hisname's anjani and he's a great
guy, um and he was a youngish,youngish, early 30s.
(09:13):
When I met him, um, guy, whohad worked in the travel
industry in delhi and had juststarted his own company with a
small team, an excellent team,but a small team, a small team,
and I was lucky to meet him andwe launched the idea of doing
India for Beginners.
Initially we did a couple ofgroup tours, realized it wasn't
(09:35):
really a scalable model and thenhit on this idea of doing
custom tours, and that was in2019.
And the company was successfulalmost from the very beginning.
And that's that was in 2019.
And and the company was umsuccessful almost from the very
beginning and that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And we're six years on and obviously, uh, you offer
a variety of tours and we'lltalk about, uh, about how, what
sort of tours that you, you dooffer, how you, how people can
get in touch with you as well.
Um, because I must admit, I'vehad a look and I went, oh,
that'd be great, that soundsamazing, the fact that you can.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Exactly, If I can intercept just for a second, I
wanted to say that one of thereasons that I think the company
was successful from thebeginning was because we met a
gap in the market People whowant especially women who want
to go to India and they feelnervous and they need somebody
to hold their hand.
And that's kind of the mainthing that we do we solve that
(10:27):
pain point, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I think that's important we talked about
earlier, before we actuallystarted the podcast, and we were
just chatting about the factthat I went to India for the
first time last year for sixweeks.
But I was very lucky in that Ihave family who live in
Bangalore, so I was able to kindof bookend my trip with a week
with family and at the end witha week with family, because
(10:51):
India and I've traveledextensively throughout the world
, but India is like nowhere Ihave been before, nowhere.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, everyone says that, everybody says that.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And I loved it.
It just there's something sospecial about india and I, the
people, the color, the sounds,just I I can't even put it into
words, really I can't.
I just think there's justsomething that just speaks to
your soul, really reallygenuinely do.
And I think there are a lot ofkind of common misconceptions
(11:25):
about traveling to India and Imust admit, when I was, when I
figured out was gonna go tovisit, visit my brother and
sister-in-law in India, I was abit like, okay, right, I can
spend some time with them, but Ineed to then plan the rest of
the trip.
And there's me, I'm gonna gosolo.
How am I gonna do this?
So I did.
I did rope a couple ofgirlfriends in as well, but what
(11:45):
do you think some of thosecommon misconceptions are that
people have?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And how do you address them through your tours?
Basically, it's a really goodquestion, and just before I
answer it, I do want to say, Iwant to comment that I think
probably one of the reasons youhad such a great trip was
because you were grounded, youhad that family experience.
You landed in Bangalore and youhad your family members there
and having that kind of safe,grounded, especially initial
experience I think that's whathappened to me as well, by the
(12:18):
way, when I first got there in2005.
I was staying with a friend ofa friend in their family home in
Delhi, and I also had a gentlelanding, a soft landing, and I
also think that's the reason Ihad such a great trip, because I
felt that grounded safety, thatkind of safety net, and this is
(12:39):
exactly what we're trying to dowith India for Beginners.
We're trying to offer peoplethat experience, and so I think
that's actually a very importantpart of traveling in India is
to have somebody there that youcan trust.
But that's a good segue alsointo this.
Misconceptions Now, I think thebiggest misconception about
(13:02):
India is that it's dangerous.
Now, I think the biggestmisconception about India is
that it's dangerous.
I personally, I've spent 10years in India.
I think it's a very challengingdestination.
I think you have to be cautious.
I agree with all of that.
However, the media foreignmedia, the global media seems to
(13:26):
have painted it in a way thathas made people very afraid to
go there.
I don't.
I feel there's a big.
I have cognitive dissonanceabout that, because my
experience being on the groundin India is that people are very
warm and friendly and that mostof the time, I have never felt
anything more than justuncomfortable.
I have never felt anything morethan just uncomfortable.
I've rarely felt unsafe orthreatened or anything almost
(13:50):
maybe once or twice in 10 yearslike honestly so I feel that's a
huge misconception.
Another big misconception isthat India is poor.
Yes, there are poor people, butIndia is actually a very
wealthy nation.
It has a huge GDP and there'slots of very, very, very rich
people, lots of very posh, poshareas, beautiful airports.
(14:11):
You know gorgeous new trains.
The Vandabhar train is like aEuropean train.
You know there's there's awealth distribution problem in
India.
It's not that they're, it's nota rich country, it's that they
have this extreme wealthdistribution issues.
But even the poor people at thepoor end of the scale have been
(14:34):
lifted up a lot in the last 10or 15 years.
So the entire population, Ithink almost the entire
population has been lifted up.
So I think the abject povertyyou might have seen in the past
is probably less.
I've seen some statistics onthis, but I don't have them off
the top of my head.
So to me those are two hugemisconceptions.
(15:00):
Misconceptions, but I do haveto say though with a caveat, um
that there's one, one so-calleddanger, one issue that tourists
face that I that I don't thinkactually gets enough air time
which is that there's a lot ofscammers and con artists in
india.
So everybody's afraid to go toindia because they think there's
(15:21):
going to be violent crime.
And actually there's not thatmuch violent crime against
tourists from what I've seen,from the statistics I've seen.
But there is a lot of scammersand con artists and people who
are going to try to rip you off,and this, I think, is
underplayed in terms of theproblems tourists face oh, those
(15:42):
are interesting, those are.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Those are exactly, I guess, the two, the two
misconceptions that I had,because that's what you hear,
that it's, uh, it's extremelypoor.
They're just going to see a lotof poverty everywhere.
Yes, I did see some, but, but,as you say that there's a lot of
very, very wealthy, uh, peoplein india, uh, as well, and um,
(16:03):
the other one was the fact thatit was going to be dangerous and
that was my biggest fear and myhusband was like I don't want
to go in there on your own, blah, blah, blah, it's not safe.
I, I, I was there for six weekson a, you know, I know it's
only a short, short, little time, but I, I could not believe how
friendly everyone was there,just there, the amount of times
(16:27):
that people came up to me andsaid where have you come from?
Why did you choose?
Well, why did you just decide tocome to india?
We're so happy that you cameand like, what have you seen?
Where have you been?
You know, and I remember,actually, at bangalore airport,
when I was leaving and a younggirl came up to me and she was
with, um, her maybe, I think,was leaving, and a young girl
came up to me and she was withher.
Maybe I think it was hergrandparents, and they wanted to
(16:49):
speak to me.
But she came to me first to askif it was OK, and then we had a
big conversation and they werejust saying we're so happy that
you chose to come to India.
Can we have a photo with you?
Which happens a lot, but it wasjust so lovely right from the
minute I set foot in India thatthe sheer welcome that you feel
(17:09):
is.
It's just absolutely fabulousit really was.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I many, many, many people I talked to, many women
especially say they were sonervous to go and then they went
there and they, their wholeperception of India changed.
It wasn't what they thought.
It was wealthier, more modernand kinder and friendlier than
they ever anticipated, whichjust goes to show you that the
global media has really, reallydone a number on India.
(17:39):
But I will say that the scamartists are a problem and it's a
very big reason why I startedmy company.
India for beginners is like, ifyou travel with us, you are
protected from the scammers.
Um, they're mostly in thehospitality industry, travel,
fake, uh, fraudulent travelcompanies, tour operators, um,
(18:01):
and also in um, in terms of themarket, you, you know people
selling fakes, fake rugs, fakepashminas, fake jewelry and
things like that.
So one of our big sellingpoints although this is hard to
express this to people Like,we've had people go on tour with
us and go, hey, india wasn'tthat bad, everything went really
(18:21):
smoothly.
And it's like I want to say,well, yeah, that's because you
were with us.
You know Exactly, exactly.
But it's hard if you haven'tgone to India and experienced
the incredible shrewdness andcreativity of the scammers, you
know, honestly, if there was anOlympic event, I think India
(18:42):
would get the gold.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think that's such an excellent point that you're
making there, mary-ellen.
In fact, you know, I had awonderful, wonderful time when I
was in India, but again, I waswith a company that were
protecting me from scammers,from those issues.
So there was always somebodybetween us and people who were
(19:07):
trying to do that, as innegotiating and making sure that
everything was above board andthat that wasn't going to happen
.
And you're right, it wasprobably more than I expected to
see that those kind ofopportunities people would try
to get in to perhaps you know,scam you out of your money and
you know that sort of thing.
(19:27):
So if somebody's arriving anddecided that they're going to go
to India and they're flyinginto Delhi or Mumbai or
Bangalore for the first time,what would be your advice that
you would give them to help themacclimate to actually arriving
into India?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, just before we jump into arriving into India,
let's talk a little.
Can we talk a little bit aboutpreparation?
Because I think, yeah, prepare,preparing for your um journey
is very, very important and it'sa really big thing we do.
Myself as a blogger and also asa tour operator, a really big
thing that I do, um and we do asa company is to help people
(20:03):
prepare for India.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, and so, like we always send a very extensive
email.
I'm in a wonderful situationwhere I have all these blog
posts I've written, so I sendpeople this long email with
links to all different blogposts and they can read up on.
I've got one, for instance, howto avoid getting sick in India,
with lots of tips.
I've got one on what to pack,what to wear, so we go into
(20:35):
clothing, we go into.
I've got one about money, howdo you pay for things, and
tipping like what's the tippingculture?
Like you know, I think doingresearch upfront it goes a long
way for in a place like likeIndia, and if you're not
traveling with a company thathelps you with your itinerary,
then definitely making sure thatyou develop a really good
itinerary, anything you can doto prepare yourself and
(20:57):
researching before you go, isgoing to, it's really going to
help you.
That's not true for many, youknow every country, but it's
it's really true for India.
So I think if you come, it's aninteresting combination.
Try to come open, like open tothe country without a lot of
preconceived ideas but at thesame time, having done some
basic research so you know theropes a little bit.
(21:21):
That combination, I think isthe best combination for
arriving in India.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I don't even I can't evenbelieve that I missed that
question out, because I'm allabout planning, yeah about
making sure that you're uh,you're planned for it and, and I
know, when I was planning it,those kind of basic questions
like, um, just even about money,like how do I access money, um,
what do I wear, was a huge,huge question.
That that we all were talkingto each other about.
(21:50):
What do we wear, what do wepack, what is okay?
And I asked a lot for mysister-in-law, I mean, I was
like what, you know what, what,what is okay for me?
Where is this going to be allright?
What should I avoid?
Um, and it's actually some alot of.
It was actually what shouldn'tI do as well, what do I need to
not, yeah, because I thinkthat's also important to to kind
of be aware of that.
You don't want to do the youknow things that are wrong right
(22:12):
from the second second that youset foot in a country as well.
Um so, yes, I know you've gotall those.
You've got all those articleson your website which are really
helpful and just to prepare youbefore you actually get on the
plane to arrive.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, very much so.
So then when you arrive, I meanI think you do have to be alert
for scammers, but at the sametime, you know, I can tell from
my personal experience, andprobably you too, that being as
open as you can, with as fewjudgments and preconceptions as
you can, and just being open tothe experience Okay, india, what
do you got, you know, like youknow, is definitely the best way
(22:52):
to arrive.
But in terms of on thepractical side, I definitely
recommend a reliable pickup atthe airport.
I think that's when you firstget there, it's India's
overwhelming and even if youdon't buy into all the fear
mongering and you're not afraidwhich is good you shouldn't be,
but you still it's veryoverwhelming and, like I say,
(23:12):
there's a lot of scam artistswho are going to be standing at
the airport looking for thepeople with have that deer in
the headlights look.
So, having a reliable pickup atthe airport and I I'm a huge
homestay fan I totally recommendstaying at a homestay, like I
have my homestay in Delhi.
I'm quite well known for stayingat Prakash Kutir in South Delhi
(23:32):
and I always recommend SouthDelhi.
It's a more residentialneighborhood, it's got a homier
feeling, so you get that likewhat we were talking about
earlier.
When you stay in a homestay youget that grounded, family, safe
feeling and I personally feelsafer in a homestay than I do in
a hotel.
That's me personally.
I know some people don't feelthat way, but I know at Prakash
(23:54):
Kutir they lock that gate atnight and I can tell you nobody
is getting by Mrs Gupta.
You know I'm Mrs Gupta's on theground floor.
I'm upstairs.
Nobody is getting by Mrs Gupta.
I feel completely safe underher wing.
I've been staying in thathomestay on and off over about
nine years and it's been awonderful experience.
I'm a member of the family now,but even if you stayed there for
(24:18):
a couple days, you'd be amember of the family.
Like that's what it's like, youknow.
So I think those two things goa really, really long way.
And then, for the first day inDelhi, I always recommend going
to Central Delhi, which is thearea that was built by the
(24:39):
British.
It's very leafy, it's verygreen, it's very posh and
there's a beautiful park there,lodi Garden.
There's a beautiful UNESCOheritage site.
Humayun's Tomb Khan Market is agreat market, for it's the
expat market.
Basically, there's lots ofgreat cafes there and they're
all in the same area and you cansort of get the taste of Delhi
(25:01):
without diving into thecraziness of old Delhi.
You can do that on the secondday.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I think those are good tips.
Delhi is a place I didn't spenda huge amount of time in.
I think it was kind of likeafter the first tour and then
after, when we got back there, Iwas just so exhausted by that
point I just thought I need togive Delhi my full attention.
So it's definitely I'd like tospend far longer and a lot of
places that I went to last timethat I kind of fell in love with
(25:31):
and was like I need to comeback and experience more of this
, and there are such.
There are so many destinations,so many places to choose from
in India and there's such,there's such difference as you
travel around the country aswell.
So so how do you recommend,like when first-time travelers
are trying to choose where to go?
Do you have any particularregions or experiences?
(25:53):
You go.
These will be, you know, greatthings to include.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know, we run a custom tour company, so we
always try to customize theitinerary as per the person's
travel style, their interests.
So there's not anywhere setplace that I recommend.
But because my company iscalled India for Beginners, so
that means mostly we're gettingfirst timers to India.
Most people want to see the TajMahal.
(26:18):
I understand why they want tosee the Taj Mahal.
But I have to tell you, when Ifirst came to India, I traveled
for six months and I didn't gosee the Taj Mahal.
But I have to tell you, when Ifirst came to India, I traveled
for six months and I didn't gosee the Taj Mahal until month
number four.
I didn't go directly to see theTaj Mahal.
You don't have to.
I mean, there's lots of amazingthings to see.
You don't have to go to the TajMahal, although, like I said,
(26:39):
when people say they want to go,I respect that.
I don't try to talk them out ofit, believe me.
So going to the Taj, flyinginto Delhi and going to the Taj
Mahal means you're probablydoing the golden triangle, which
is, you know, delhi, agra andthe Taj Mahal, and then Jaipur,
and these these cities are in atriangle.
They're about five hours drivebetween each one.
So most first timers do thegolden triangle.
(27:02):
That's just the way it is.
I'm not going to be able tochange that in my lifetime, I
don't think, unless there's alot of more creative marketing
that comes along.
So what we do is we try toweave in some interesting
offbeat experiences or offbeatdestinations within that
itinerary, because we're goingto be definitely following that
(27:26):
for a lot of people.
Sanctuary near Agra, so we'lltake people there so that you
know the money it costs to gothere funds their wonderful
resources.
Or we'll take people to a placelike Dera Amir.
(27:49):
It's a beautiful wildernesscamp where you can just go.
You don't have to stayovernight, if you don't want to,
you can just go for the day,and they also have rescued
elephants, um, you can see, Ilike elephants.
Yeah, elephants and tigers aremy two favorite animals, and so
we this.
This is what we try, what wetry to do now.
For for some people, though,don't feel that way, they don't
(28:11):
need to go to the taj mahal, um,some people want to go to south
india.
So we will recommend keralaover goa.
I think goa is just tootouristy, um, but kerala is an
amazing destination that retainsits culture and it's
fascinating.
It's also a soft landing andthere's a lot of different
experiences you can have inkerala.
But for myself, if somebodyjust comes to me and says okay
(28:34):
and believe me, this almostnever happens.
But if somebody came to me andsaid, okay, you put the
itinerary together, I'll gowherever you say, I would take
them to madhya pradesh.
Madhya pradesh, which is in thecenter of india.
It's the, it's literally theycall it the heart of india.
It's right in the middle.
It's one of my favorite statesand it doesn't get a huge amount
(28:57):
of foreign tourists, but it'san absolutely amazing place.
You have historic sites likethere's an abandoned city called
Mandu.
It's unbelievable.
It should be so much morefamous.
There's these beautiful tinylittle small towns that have
these ancient structures andtemples, like Orchha, which is
(29:19):
incredible.
You have the best tigerreserves in India, for sure.
Kanna Tiger Reserve is numberone in my opinion.
And then you have a place likeMaheshwar, which is literally
magical, and I love Maheshwar.
I mean, you have to see it tobelieve, you have to experience
it to believe it.
And so many of these places arejust, they're just not marketed
(29:42):
.
They're people you know,they're just not marketed, so
people don't know about them.
But if they knew about them,believe me, they would want to
go.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Well, I tell you I want to go.
You're just talking about it.
I'm like, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'mup for that, I want to go, I
want to see, I just want to, Iwant to explore and see more.
It's really funny because thatyou say.
But I saw the taj mahal,obviously, when I was over, and
absolutely respect everybody whowants to see it.
It's, it's high on my.
My husband would love to to seeit.
Um, but for me, kerala wasfabulous.
(30:09):
It's just so beautiful.
It it really is.
You can't, you can't put thatinto words actually as well,
because, well, because it's just, it's so peaceful, so beautiful
.
You know, I don't know, it wasvery special.
And the other place that Iabsolutely fell in love with and
I'm probably going to say thename wrong, so you're going to
have to help me out here alittle bit Marie-Ellen is
Jaisalmer.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Jaisalmer.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, Jaisalmer.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I loved it.
Jaisalmer it's a fairy tale.
It's a sand castle.
Jaisalmer is one of my favoriteplaces in India.
It's literally magical.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I totally fell in love with it.
And then going out to the TharDesert as well.
We actually slept in the TharDesert, which was just fabulous.
But there was just somethingabout Jaisalmer that I just and
I'd already by that point Ithink this was maybe week three
I'd done a couple of weeks insouthern India and then flown up
to do from that kind of goldentriangle, but with extras.
(31:07):
But Jaisalmer was just, it'sthe one place.
When I said to my husband whenwe're going to plan to go back,
I said we're definitely,definitely going to go there.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Well, I mean, I live in Rajasthan.
I get it.
I moved to Rajasthan.
Jaipur, where I live, is thecapital of Rajasthan.
Rajasthan is a fairy tale.
It's a storybook.
It's beautiful.
I mean, it is one of the morehighly touristed parts of India,
but it still retains itsoriginal culture.
It hasn't been, culture hasn'tbeen ruined in any way.
(31:36):
And there culture, it hasn'tbeen, culture hasn't been ruined
in any way.
Um, and it's, it's.
There's a reason people gothere.
It's, it's magnificentlybeautiful.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You know, like it's beautiful and desert and the
medieval forts and the yeah, noyeah, I just, I love color, so I
, I just love the vibrancyaround me, and that's the first
thing I think about when I thinkof j Jyotsana.
There just seemed to be so muchcolor everywhere.
Everywhere just was just sovibrant.
And the smells, again, indiareally feeds your senses.
It really really does, andthat's the thing I think that
(32:08):
you'll.
It's the sounds and the smellsand the sights and all of those,
everything will become, will beheightened and be alive, I
think, with that.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
And you can get addicted to that yeah, oh, yeah,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Oh, I can easily see how that can happen easily.
Uh, 100 percent, uh.
And yeah, I can't wait toreturn, honestly, but I want to,
I want to spend longer, I wantto go long.
I mean, I was there six weekslast time, which is not a bad
amount of time, but but I wantto spend longer there,
definitely, um, now we'retalking a little bit about, you
know, cultural sensitivity I didtalk a little bit about.
(32:45):
We were prepared, or we werethinking about, you know what?
What should we wear?
What should we not wear?
Um, so so what would you?
What would you say?
That people should be aware ofum, so that they, you know, they
ensure that they haverespectful interactions.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, I'm so glad you're asking about cultural
sensitivity.
It's a big topic with me.
I'm I feel, very, very seriousabout it because India is an
extremely fast changing place.
Like, I've been going 20 yearsand it's like, in some ways, a
different country, but in someways it's not at all.
I mean, it's a traditionalculture.
(33:18):
Underneath, when you scratchthe surface, it's still a very
traditional culture and I thinkpeople need to understand that.
You can look at Bollywoodmovies or maybe go to one of the
big metros, mumbai especially,and it can fool you a little bit
into thinking that India isvery modern and westernized and
(33:39):
it is in many ways.
But as a foreigner visitingIndia, I personally this is
something I feel very stronglyabout.
I think it behooves you to erron the side of caution and show
respect for the culture.
Read the room, you know.
You know I live there, but Istill wear very modest clothing.
(33:59):
I I dress dress completelydifferently here in toronto when
I'm in india.
I wear very modest clothing,very flowy, long flowy things,
you know, and um, I also thinkthat, um, I think we have to be
aware that the genders relatedifferently and that there is a
social hierarchy and learningabout these things and you may
(34:22):
not like it, but it's.
It's really not not your placeto judge it or to try to change
it.
I think being respectful ofthose things is important.
It's a shoes off nation, soshoes off when you go to
people's houses, shoes off attemples.
So, again, just be aware ofthat and be respectful of that.
(34:42):
I think one of the mostimportant things is to be very
respectful of religion.
There's many religions in India.
The predominant one is Hinduism, but there's many religions and
being very respectful of thereligion, of the gods of temples
If they say don't take photos,don't take photos.
I mean, I've seen a lot ofphotos of the burning gods in
(35:04):
Varanasi on social media andthat is just a huge cultural
taboo.
You are not supposed to takepictures of burning bodies and
it really saddens me to see thatthis is happening.
Pure veg vegetarianism is awonderful thing in India.
It's also a serious thing inIndia.
(35:24):
So if you're in an ashram or ifyou're in a pure veg
environment, please be pure veg.
Don't bring eggs or meat oranything.
That's when you're in a sacredspace.
Please observe that.
And the very last thing I wouldsay is, like all of Asia, it's
very important to not lose, notlose patience, to not show anger
(35:48):
.
In Asia it's it's a taboo toyou know, to put people in a
situation where they lose face,and this is true in India as
well.
So, just you know, to putpeople in a situation where they
lose face, and this is true inIndia as well.
So, just you know, be politeand firm, but polite, and you
know, just try to always treatpeople with respect.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I think that's.
Those are absolutely perfectexamples of you know how to be
in India.
You are when you, you are there, when you're experiencing it.
One question I wanted to askbecause it happened a lot to me,
um is that I was asked to havea lot of photos.
Everybody was very respectful,very respectful and, um, I was
(36:32):
happy to have loads of pictureswith, uh, women, with families,
and just the amount of.
In fact, the first time wasactually outside Bangalore
Airport and a man came up to meand said my wife would like to
have a photo with you, and I wasa bit OK, and then I got used
to it throughout the whole trip.
It just happened constantly.
So that was one thing, so kindof that wasn't a problem.
(36:52):
But then I also wanted to havephotographs with a lot of the
beautiful women that I saw andjust so beautifully dressed.
So I asked Often it would bethey'd ask first if they want a
picture with me and then, well,can I have a picture with you?
But there were times where Ijust wanted to and I just went
up to women and just said, canwe have a photo together?
And I was never sure if thatwas OK to do, so I thought I'm
(37:15):
going to ask you now.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
It's OK to do if you ask.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh yeah, I would never do it without asking yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, I mean, as long as you ask, absolutely for sure
.
But I think women and childrenespecially are a little bit shy,
you know, about having theirphotos taken.
So, yeah, you have to be veryrespectful of that and not
putting photos of childrenonline, obviously.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Just, I think you know Indians are very easygoing
overall and quite fluid, youknow, and they don't take
offense.
You know the way Westernerscould take offense at things.
You know they're not like thatmostly.
I think.
That's my experience anyway.
So I think if you just if youjust ask and they say no and
just respect that, yeah, it'sfine.
(38:07):
You know, and if people want totake your photo and you want to
say no, that's fine.
Also, you're allowed to say no,and I do all the time.
I won't get my photo taken withmen or boys, I will only get my
photo taken with families orchildren or women, and that's
one of my personal rules and Idon't bend that, and so I just
say no okay, no, that's fairenough.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I I think there must be there must be thousands of
photos of me now in India,because it felt it felt like
there was a lot of photos that Ihave got blonde hair and I
don't know if that was also partof the part of the attraction,
because I've got very fair hair,which did gain a little bit of
attention, and you also do aswell, marie-ellen, so I guess
(38:47):
that that also may have been oneof the reasons.
Now I know your company, indiafor Beginners.
It kind of emphasizessustainable and authentic travel
experiences, so so how do theyincorporate those values into
your tours?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
um, well, we do it a number of ways.
I would say the number one waythat we we, we do this um is to,
uh, we patronize localbusinesses, like we book people
into locally owned homestays andguest houses, for example, and
just wherever we can, we'll usea local business.
We try not to patronize globalmultinational hotel chains and
(39:28):
things like that.
And wherever we can, we hirewomen.
There's not that many womenworking in tourism, but we
always try to hire women guides.
We have women guides for theTaj Mahal, and going to the Taj
Mahal with a woman guide isdifferent than going with a male
guide.
It is a different experience.
I can tell you this for sure.
You get a whole different takeon things, and so, also, we're
(39:53):
always trying to incorporatelocal experiences.
Like we live there.
I mean, I've lived in Delhi fora long time.
I live in Jaipur, my team alllives in Delhi.
We know people, so like you cando a Bollywood dance class with
my business partner's sister,for example, or our friends we
have the team has friends thatrun a homestay in Jaipur.
(40:15):
They live in a very authenticmedieval structure across from
the city palace and they inviteour guests to go there for a
cooking demo and dinner, andyou're right there with the
family.
They've got two little girlswho are super bright and really
fun.
So you're right there with thefamily.
(40:36):
And I mentioned Wildlife SOS.
We also.
There's certain worthwhileorganizations that we really
like, wildlife SOS being aperfect example that we just try
to patronize and we try tosupport them and take.
If people say to us, oh, I wantto, you know, see an elephant
or whatever, well, we'd rathertake them to an elephant rescue
center than to a place that youknow treats them badly like,
(40:59):
lets you ride them or something.
There's no elephant riding.
We don't allow any elephantriding on our tours and we also
get to know specialty tourcompanies like the Blue Yonder
and Kochi are doing an amazingjob with local experiences.
There's a wonderful guy inJaipur.
His company is called SeagullJaunt and he is a character and
(41:23):
he'll take you in the backalleys and he'll show you places
even people from Jaipur havenever seen.
I work with a wonderful companycalled the Folk Tales and
Gaurav is very well-known forsupporting especially up in
northeast India.
He supports local storytellersand local homestay owners.
So always trying to build thisnetwork of people who are doing
(41:46):
this.
You know kind of grassroots,you know alternative forms of
tourism, and that's somethingwe're always working on.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, and I think it's so important and you've got
you know, you've got the theground in there, you've got
those connections there so youcan, you can build on that and
you get to know people and youknow, I think that is invaluable
.
It really is that you're not,you know, you're based there for
most of the year and you knowyou have those contacts, those
contacts which, honestly, itreally is.
It's something that I do for myUK travel.
(42:20):
It's having those localconnections and you know people
trust that because you, you havethings, that you have access
that they can't, they can't doand um, and it's just say you,
can you make sure that thingsare, you know, ethical and they
are.
I was a bit shocked, I have tosay, when I think it was a red
fort, when I saw that peoplewere riding elephants.
I was like, no, what?
(42:41):
Yeah, so it, yeah, that thatit's.
It's so good that you know allof those things.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You, you, you check everything, you make sure
everything is absolutely yeah,yeah, you have to live in the
destination and you have to livethere.
And I've been there over thepast 20 years and you know I've
got solo female travelers whoI've done itineraries for and
they're literally going from myfriend's guest house to my
friend's tour, to my friend's.
You know, they're going from myfriend to my friend to my
(43:10):
friend to my friend my friend'sashram, and then I just WhatsApp
the owner.
All these people are my friends, I watch them.
Hey, how's she doing?
You know they have no idea thatwe're.
You know that they're envelopedin this kind of circle of care.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
So that's priceless Marianne.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
It's priceless.
It is priceless.
Thank you for saying that, Iagree.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, now I'm going to ask you.
I usually put people on thespot with this one, but I did
prepare you a bit because I knowthis might be easy for you,
might be hard, but how can youencapsulate India in three words
, can you?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
No, it's impossible.
I mean, I became a bloggerbecause I literally have written
millions, literally millions ofwords, trying to capture the
experience of what it was likefor me to go to India and how it
just blew open my life.
You know, it just changed me inevery way and it was India was
my muse, you know, as a, as acreative person.
(44:06):
So to put it down into threewords of course is is crazy, but
I did come up with three words.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Okay.
So, uh, for what it's worth,magical yeah, I agree, and it's
overwhelming in a wonderful wayas well sometimes, I think so I
think, yeah, uh, I think, I mustadmit, I remember delhi
(44:35):
thinking this is, it's verynoisy, very, very noisy, but
again, it's that that the senses.
So I think you have to expectit.
But I think, uh, so I think youhave to expect it, but I think,
magical, absolutely, it justtotally is, and it's, yes,
exactly.
I think you've hit the nail.
I know it was very difficult,but I think you've hit the nail
on the head for those, thosethree words.
(44:56):
Now I know you've, you'veguided many people, whether it's
through your website, throughyou, obviously, through your
writings and through your tours.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
But is there a particular story or piece of
feedback from a traveler thatstands out.
There's been some wonderful, ofcourse, experiences that I've
had, getting to know our guests,but there's two, actually, that
I want to mention.
One of them was and both ofthese women have become friends,
by the way One is an Americanlady named Leslie who came on
our Holi tour.
(45:29):
We had a very transformativeexperience together.
We played Holi, the groupplayed Holi in Rishikesh.
We got covered in color inRishikesh.
We played it privately in anashram, so it was safe, but we
got completely drenched in color.
And when we got back to ourhotel, which was right on the
Ganga, right on the Holy RiverGanges, which is really called
(45:51):
the Ganga, I invited them tohave a dip in the Ganga, and
this is something that we do inRishikesh.
I lived in Rishikesh for fouryears and it's something that we
do.
You just dive in with yourcolors on.
And only one person out of thegroup of women came in the river
with me and that was Leslie.
And the Gunga is famous forbeing a very holy river, a
(46:12):
healing river, and she had aspontaneous outpouring of grief
over her son's death and I thinkshe got rid of.
I don't know.
I mean, something happened toher.
She had a very transformativeexperience and she later she
wrote a blog post for usactually it's on the India for
Beginners website and she saidthat when she got back home to
(46:41):
US, people said to her that shehad changed and that she was
radiated, looked radiant, andthat she had changed, and that's
how she felt.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
She's come back to India twice since then, by the
way, I'm not surprised it drawsyou back in and, having such an
amazing experience on her firsttrip, you can understand.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
It was a big experience for me too, just to
see, to see her go through that.
That was very meaningful for me.
And another one was Colleen.
And Colleen is from Canadashe's from Victoria actually and
she told me that if she hadn'tfound my site you know
Canadian-owned tour company thatshe probably wouldn't have gone
(47:18):
to India.
But she always wanted to go toIndia and she also.
I saw her at the beginning inDelhi, prakash Kutir, and I saw
her at the end again in PrakashKutir and she had changed.
She was a different person.
Her face had changed, she hadchanged from her tours around
India and I think she traveledfor six weeks or something like
that and she actually went back.
(47:39):
She just went back last monthfor her second time and this
time she brought her niece and Isaw her.
I was just leaving for Canadathe next day, the day after she
arrived, but I got a chance tosee her and her niece and we
went shopping together and itwas a wonderful experience to
see her again and again, aperson who'd been transformed.
So that's my goal, my loftygoal, is for Pete Mark, our
(48:03):
guest, to be transformed.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I think that's a wonderful goal and, um, I think
india, india and combined withwith your tours, are gonna are
gonna create that, that uhtransformation for people.
Do you genuinely believe thatnow?
Uh, what would be one tip?
I always end the podcast.
I'm really sad to end thepodcast because I think I could
talk to you for hours, mariellen, and maybe we'll you're going
to come on again and we'll maybetalk about some some of the.
I'm really sad to end thepodcast because I think I could
(48:30):
talk to you for hours,marie-hélène, and maybe you're
going to come on again and we'llmaybe talk about some of the
different destinations in Indiaas well.
That would be really cool.
But what would be the one tipthat you'd share with anybody
planning to visit India for thefirst time?
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I think the most important thing is to plan your
trip based on the weather.
The weather in India is extreme.
So, for just an example,october and November and
February to April is perfect forNorth India, but December and
January in North India is coldand foggy and smoggy.
(49:01):
It's not nice.
So you need to know thatNovember to March for South
India is perfect.
The whole winter is perfect forSouth India, it's perfect.
The whole winter is perfect forSouth India.
But it's not nice in the summer, unless you want to do monsoon
travel.
Like, if you specifically wantto do monsoon travel in July and
August, that can be planned,but knowing that you're going in
(49:22):
the monsoon, it's a differentmindset.
And then, if you want to go tothe mountains, ideally I would
go March to May, for example,because it's much cooler up
there and so when it gets reallyhot in the plains you can go up
into the mountains, the hillstations.
There's a lot of hill stationsand mountainous areas.
Of course, the Himalaya rangeruns right down the side of
(49:44):
India.
So, yeah, pay attention to theweather.
My second tip would be to payattention to festivals, because
you know festivals like Diwaliespecially.
I would say figure out whenDiwali is and and plan
accordingly, you can't reallymove around for a couple of days
.
During Diwali in North India,traffic is at a standstill.
(50:06):
During Diwali in North India,traffic is at a standstill.
So find a nice homestay andenjoy Diwali and don't move
around during Diwali.
So there's just these bigforces in India that you would
be wise to pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's been absolutely fantastic to talk to you this
week, mariel, and I've beenlooking forward to chatting to
you for such a long time, sinceI met you a few years ago at a
TBEX conference in Thailand, soI was so chuffed when you agreed
to come on and share your lovefor India.
I will share links to yourcompany and to your website as
well, but it's been fabulouschatting to you and I hope to be
(50:42):
able to do so again soon.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
And it's been wonderful to be here.
Thank to be able to do so againsoon, and it's been wonderful
to be here.
Thank you so much for having me, and I'd like to end our
podcast with a quote by TracyCollins, who said India isn't a
destination, it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Let it change you.
A huge thank you to Mariellenonce again for sharing her story
and such thoughtful insightsinto travelling through India.
If you're considering a tripand want expert help planning it
, you'll find all the links toBreathe, dream, go and India for
Beginners in the show notes atglobaltravelplanningcom.
Forward slash, episode 64.
But until next time, as alwaysfrom me, happy global travel
(51:22):
planning.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of the Global
Travel Planning Podcast.
For more details and links toeverything we discussed today,
check out the show notes atglobaltravelplanningcom.
Remember, if you enjoyed theshow, please consider leaving us
a review on your favoritepodcast app, because your
feedback helps us reach moretravel enthusiasts, just like
(51:42):
you.
Anyway, that leaves me to say,as always, happy global travel
planning.
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