April 16, 2025 • 26 mins
In episode 50 of the Global Travel Planning Podcast, Tracy is joined by travel expert Abigail Hannah from Aotearoa Adventures to explore the enchanting landscapes and rich culture of Nepal. Whether you're a first-time visitor or just considering a trip, this episode is packed with essential tips and insights to help you navigate your adventure in this beautiful country.
From the best times to visit and how to get around, to must-see destinations like Kathmandu and Pokhara, Abigail shares her personal experiences and recommendations. Learn about the culinary delights you can't miss, including the famous Nepali momos and dal bhat, and get valuable advice on cultural etiquette to ensure a respectful and enjoyable visit.
Whether you're interested in trekking to stunning viewpoints or immersing yourself in Nepal's rich heritage, this episode will guide you in planning your perfect itinerary. Join us as we uncover the secrets of Nepal and inspire your next travel adventure!
Guest - Abigail Hannah of Aotearoa Adventures
Show notes - Episode 50
🎧 Listen to next
- Episode #16 - Exploring New Zealand with Abigail Hannah
- Episode #2 - North Island New Zealand Itinerary
- Episode #3 - South Island New Zealand Itinerary
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
planning your first trip to Nepal and wondering
where to start, when is the besttime to visit, how do you get
around and what cultural tipsshould you know before you go?
This is episode 50 of theGlobal Travel Planner podcast,
where you'll discover everythingyou need to know as a
first-time visitor.
Hi and welcome to the GlobalTravel Planner podcast.
I'm your host, tracey Collins,who, with my expert guests, will
(00:22):
take you on a weekly journey todestinations around the globe,
providing travel inspiration,itinerary ideas, practical tips
and more to help you plan yournext travel adventure.
Hi, everybody, and welcome toepisode 50 of the Global Travel
(00:45):
Plan and Podcast.
And this week I'm very, veryexcited to talk to my friend,
abigail from Air TarouaAdventures, who is a fellow
podcaster and knows a lot aboutNepal.
So she's here today to kind ofshare all her tips for
first-time visitors, of which Iwill be.
So it'll be great to chat withyou all about Nepal, but let's
(01:07):
start off, abigail, by youintroducing yourself and telling
us a bit.
At the moment you're in theStates, but normally you don't
live in America.
You're just there visiting.
So where do you normally liveand what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well kia ora Tracey, it's a pleasure to be back on
the podcast again.
My zone of genius is usuallyNew Zealand travel, and that's
what we spoke about in aprevious episode.
I don't remember that numberoff the top of my head, but my
second favorite place in theworld is probably Nepal, so I'm
excited to talk about that today.
And yeah, I live in New Zealand.
(01:38):
I am a marketing, I run amarketing agency and I work with
travel brands, so it's all justa lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It is, and I actually should have mentioned that you
were previously in episode 16 ofthe podcast, talking all about
van life in New Zealand, whichwas a fantastic episode.
So if you have not been to NewZealand, if you're interested to
find out about New Zealand,definitely pop over and have a
listen, not only to episode 16,but also to Abigail's podcast as
(02:08):
well, which is excellent andall about travel around New
Zealand.
Now, so much for thatintroduction.
All about New Zealand.
Let's focus on Nepal today.
I mean, I could talk about NewZealand all day, because you
know how much I love it, butlet's learn about Nepal.
So what's your connection toNepal?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, well, also, I don't think I've told you this,
but we're moving into our vanfull time this year in New
Zealand, so there'll be a lotmore van life content coming, if
anyone else is wanting to do atrip.
But we were in Nepal just acouple of months ago.
Like Tracy said, I'm in theStates at the moment.
We've kind of done a round theworld trip where we left New
(02:51):
Zealand, went to Nepal, and ourconnection there is my husband's
parents live in Nepal.
My husband grew up in Nepal,lived there for 14 years.
His parents are still there, soit's very much a place we still
have a really strong connectionto.
So I think I've been there fivetimes.
Probably the first time wouldhave been 2015.
Yeah, it's a very special place, very close to our heart.
So that's our connection.
And if I was to describe Nepalto someone who's never been, I'd
(03:13):
say it's kind of like India,and I say that because I also
grew up in India, so that'sfamiliar to me.
But I feel like most peoplehave an idea what they think
India is.
So it's quite similar, but it'smore friendly, it's less
intense, it's less kind of inyour face.
So it's quite similar, but it'smore friendly, it's less
intense, it's less kind of inyour face and it's, yeah, just a
bit more laid back.
So I think I really love it forall of those reasons.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And, as you know, actually, I visited India last
year and completely fell in lovewith it.
I'm actually yet to talk aboutthat on a podcast.
That visit and we shouldactually talk about India, think
, in another episode.
Um, and and that kind of piquedmy interest because I loved
India, it absolutely captured myheart and, uh, our guide
actually lived.
She was from close to Nepal, sonot actually from Nepal, but
(03:57):
but she was talking all about itand she does trips to Nepal and
I was like, wow, this justsounds like something that's
right up my street, so I wouldbe a first-time visitor.
What so?
What sort of things do I needto know?
And edwin, listening and who'sthinking about you know, nepal
sounds like a fascinating placeto visit.
What do I need to know before Igo?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
yeah, I guess, um, nepal is really popular for a
lot of the people that love theoutdoors, like it's obviously
this amazing like massivetrekking destination.
People go on hikes.
Everest base camp is superpopular.
But in my opinion, do somethingelse, go to one of the less
known treks.
But it's also this incrediblecultural place and I know we're
(04:35):
going to talk about that more ina future episode because the
Kathmandu Valley is just thiskind of melting pot of like
Buddhist culture and Hinduculture and it's kind of like
super, super interesting andthere's so many historic sites
and unesco world heritage sites.
So I guess, like, before you goto nepal, you kind of need to
decide whether you want to stayin one place and just experience
(04:55):
culture, or if you want to goum into the mountains, do a trek
um, stay in katmandu and dosome cultural experiences, and
the other really cool thing youcan do is there's this location
called Chitwan and there's likea wildlife park so you can go on
safaris and stuff.
So like.
Nepal really does have it all,and there's.
There's just so much you canspend your time doing there.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It's really good to know, cause I guess when, when I
think about it, I was a bitoverwhelmed just at the thought
of it, because I kind of thinkabout Everest and I certainly
don't want it.
You know, I'm not a hiker, soit wouldn't be something that
I'd want to do, but there areother things that would appeal
to me and other things that I'dwant to do.
So I guess it's like so how doyou?
I mean, how do you kind ofdecide in terms of I kind of
(05:39):
think I'm interested in culture,I'm interested in food, I'm
interested in culture, I'minterested in food, I'm
interested in history.
So I don't necessarily want todo any hiking.
I don't want to say that anyhiking, but certainly not to
base camp, that's just not forme.
But how would I?
What are the?
What other things could I findto do?
I mean, what else is there thatyou would kind of say right,
(06:01):
you've discounted the hiking,but these are other ideas of
things to do.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah.
So there's plenty of culturallike UNESCO World Heritage Sites
in the Kathmandu Valley andthere's lots of sort of other
cultural things outside thevalley as well.
But I think like you want tokind of appreciate the scenery
and take that in when you gointo Nepal as well.
So there's plenty of likeluxury resorts and hotels that
you can stay at that just havethese like panoramic views of
(06:28):
like the tallest mountains inthe world, right, like I
remember my first time seeingthese mountains, because you
can't usually see them from theKathmandu Valley.
So we'd gone out to Pokhara.
The first couple of days werecloudy and we were out on
Pokhara Lake in a little rowboatand the clouds were starting to
clear and Isaac goes oh, look,there are the mountains.
And I'm like where, where arethe mountains?
I can't see them.
He said, no, look higher, lookhigher.
(06:50):
And I was like, whoa, there arethe mountains.
Like the scale of it is just sounreal, nothing like anywhere
else I've experienced.
So Pokhara is a really gooddestination.
It's a lakeside town and youcan kind of base yourself there.
I hear rumors that there's anew chairlift that kind of goes
up to this viewpoint.
(07:10):
So that could be something thatyou could do, and there's lots
of food and just like.
It's a little bit hippie or itused to be hippie back in the
day.
So there's plenty of stuff tojust kind of get involved in
along the lakefront there.
But you could just spend acouple of days walking down the
streets.
Yeah, there'll be plenty tokeep you busy, even if you don't
like hiking down the streets.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Um, yeah, there'll be plenty to keep you busy, even
if you don't like hiking.
And if so, how long do wouldyou reckon I should go for?
Because, as not as a non-hiker?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
um, I would say like a 10-day minimum especially.
So let me give you like a roughitinerary, okay.
Um, you can start in katmandu,have maybe one or two days there
.
Um, in a day you could probablyhit maybe half of the main
attractions and then if you'vegot a second day you can hit the
other half to do them reallywell, and then either fly, which
(07:56):
is a little bit more expensivefor international visitors, or
take a coach to Pokhara, whichon the coach I think it's about
10 hours.
The roads aren't great.
So, if you've got the budget,definitely worth flying and
that's a safe flight.
It's not like the one toEverest, which is kind of like a
dodgy airport.
So you get into Pokhara andthat's the lakeside town that I
was talking about.
(08:17):
So you can spend a couple ofdays there.
I went paragliding there.
If you want to, if that's kindof something you're interested
in, you can also do.
Like Tracy's shaking her head,there's like rafting and
whitewater activities that youcan do as well.
If that's not, if that's yourthing, probably also not you,
tracy but yeah, there's cafesand restaurants.
(08:40):
You can kind of just enjoy that.
You can go across the lake tothis monastery.
There's some caves.
So you can spend about threedays in Pokhara and then you can
either again fly or take acoach to Chitwan, which is where
that wildlife nature places.
You can go on a jeep safari.
They've got crocodiles, rhinos,tigers, you know all sorts like
(09:01):
.
So that I haven't actually donethat experience yet.
Um, so it's on the bucket list,but I've heard really good
things.
Um, and then, yeah, you go backto Kathmandu in a little
triangle, so like three days ineach place and that kind of
takes you to your 10 days.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's great.
Now that sounds perfect for me,but I would be remiss of all my
listeners who are into hiking,and I know you are a massive fan
of hiking.
So for those hikers out there,what, what, what would you
recommend that they look atdoing?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
yeah.
So I mentioned pokra, thelakeside town.
That really is a great hub forstarting hikes and it's set up
for that um.
So, again, you've got to findyour way from katmandu to pokra
and there's this really great,like I call it a short hike.
It's definitely short in umnepal standards because a lot of
their hikes are like two orthree weeks long, um, but this
(09:54):
is like a three night.
I think.
It's three nights, four days,and you can possibly do it in
two nights, three days.
And it's to a viewpoint whichlooks out.
It's called poon hill and itlooks out over the anapurna
ranges, which is this likestunning bowl of mountains and I
think the range has, I don'tknow, four mountains that are in
the top 10 tallest mountains inthe world or something like
(10:17):
that.
So on the actual morning, likeyou always do, a sunrise at Poon
Hill and it's supposed to bebeautiful.
Again, I haven't done thisparticular hike, but it was one
that is kind of on the bucketlist and if you've got longer,
if you've got a week, if you'vegot 10 days, two weeks a month,
there are so many other optionsfor hiking in Nepal and most of
(10:37):
them will start out of Pokharaas well.
A few of them might start outof Kathmandu.
For example, if you're doingEverest, you fly to Lukla and
then you start walking fromthere.
So there's plenty of options.
I think the other thing I wouldsay is all the Nepali tour
guides and trekking companies doa really good job.
(10:58):
They know what's up.
They do this day in and day out.
So for most of them, andparticularly if you're in a
conservation area, you have tohave a guide.
A lot of people will choose totake a porter as well, and the
porters carry your bags and somepeople get a bit weird about
that, but it's part of theculture and you're still
supporting the economy and,honestly, it makes trekking so
(11:20):
much easier when you're notcarrying two weeks of stuff on
your back.
So, yeah, that's something thatlisteners can kind of look into
as well.
But it's a very different wayof hiking and I enjoy it.
It's like it's a lot morerelaxed.
There's tea houses along theway, there's restaurants where
you can stop and get a hot meal.
So it's different to like inNew Zealand, for example.
(11:44):
We go out into the bush, intothe wilderness, and there's
nothing.
You bring everything in withyou, you take it all out.
Um, it's quite different andmost of the trekking trails are
kind of along these.
They pass through like historicvillages.
So yeah, it's, it's great.
I love trekking in nepal and Iknow everyone who listens will
they'll love it too it doessound.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It does sound amazing , I have to say, and, um, I like
the idea of not having to carrymy own pack and all the rest of
it because I know I wouldstruggle.
And I was just talking toDaniel, actually for the UK
Travel Planet podcast, he's justreturned from Kilimanjaro, um,
and and climbed.
I was like fascinated to chatabout that.
That was amazing.
So I don't.
I do say that I don't hike andyou know I have done a short-ish
(12:25):
hike in New Zealand andabsolutely loved it.
But what sort of level offitness do you need to do these
hikes in Nepal, abigail?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, this is a super interesting question, and when
we were back there two weeks,two months ago, I'm not a very
fit person.
Yes, I do go hiking, but Iusually do like no physical
activity for two months and thenI go on like a three-day hike
and my body's like what are youdoing?
Doing so?
I probably need to change thatand actually do some more
(12:54):
physical exercise in between.
But the thing about trekking inNepal is not actually about how
fit you are, but it's about thealtitude.
Right when we went trekking in,yeah, a couple months ago, we
started our trek at 3 000 metersand, for reference, the tallest
mountain in New Zealand, whichis still pretty tall, is like
(13:14):
three and a half thousand meters.
So you're already really highup.
I don't know how tallKilimanjaro is or any other
mountains, to kind of givepeople a reference, but you're
starting at three and wefinished at I don't know four
and a half, I think.
So where we finished our hikeis taller than New Zealand's
tallest mountain.
So altitude sickness is a thing, um, and what that means is
(13:38):
your body just there's lessoxygen in the air because
there's less air and your bodyjust needs to take time to kind
of figure out how to absorb moreoxygen.
So if you're up in themountains for a long time, your
body actually makes more redblood cells.
But I won't go into the scienceof it.
Basically, altitude sickness canaffect anybody, no matter how
(14:00):
much training you've done, nomatter how fit you are or if
you've done nothing at all.
It doesn't like it can impactanyone and it seems to be pretty
random.
It doesn't discriminate againstage or, yeah, it just it can
affect anyone.
So you, so it's good to be fit.
But you can't sort of train orplan for altitude sickness and
me, having not done any trainingfor our trek that we did two
(14:22):
months ago, I was fine and youcan take meds beforehand and all
of the tour companies will knowabout altitude sickness and the
way to kind of just prevent itis just to go slowly up the hill
.
So you're only gaining about Ithink they say, 200 or 300
meters a day, which isn't much.
So that's why the trekking isalso quite easy is because
(14:45):
you're not going up a thousandmeters like up a steep mountain.
You're doing a little bit andyou're stopping and you're doing
a little bit more and you'renot going up, you know, a
thousand meters, like up a steepmountain.
You're doing a little bit andyou're stopping, and you're
doing a little bit more andyou're stopping, so that your
body can adjust.
And if you do get sick, it'snot the end of the world.
You just go back down and yourbody is like okay, we can
breathe again, we're okay.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, it's definitely .
It's definitely appealing morethe fact that you said it's slow
.
That sounds good.
That sounds like that wouldappeal to me, because I
certainly don't want to go upany very steep mountains.
It's not for me.
The flat of the bed or a slightgradient I can deal with.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
There's this um, there's this thing called nepali
flat um, and that is nothing isflat.
Everything is up or down allright, I'll have.
I'll have to think about that Ineed to look at some of your
photographs, I think now whatabout the?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
best time of year to visit Nepal.
Is there a best time of year tovisit or a time yet to avoid
great?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
question yeah, so the busiest time of year is um
April and October, and that'sbecause it's the best time for
trekking.
That's kind of spring andautumn I guess, and that's when
it's not too hot, it's not toocold, it's not dangerous with
any of the snow.
So those are kind of, if youwant to be trekking, definitely
go there in April or October andthen like a couple of months
(16:02):
either side of that.
So we were there trekking inearly November, for example.
In early November, for example,the monsoon kind of sits
between I think it's like June,july, through to September
somewhere around there.
So you probably want to beavoiding monsoon, unless that's
your thing.
But transport becomes a littlebit more risky because
(16:26):
everything is a hill.
They have a lot of landslides,roads get washed away all the
time.
Um, I think this is actuallysomething I need to prepare
first time listeners for, uh,the, the roads in Nepal, they,
uh, they, uh.
Yeah, not really roads as wethink of them.
They're not usually paved.
If they are, they're full ofpotholes and it's just because
(16:46):
of the nature of the landscape.
Like every couple of of years,a landslide comes through and
washes it out, so they've got torebuild it and so, um, that's
definitely something to beprepared for.
Um, but yeah, april and octoberbest times to visit.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Okay, sounds good, and you kind of touched on there
before about getting around.
So the easiest way to getaround is literally a bus or
flying.
Those are your options.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if it's just around town,if it's around Kathmandu, then
taxis are really affordable.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah going to pivot to my one of my favorite topics
to talk about now.
I know you love talking aboutyou love talking about hiking.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I like talking about food.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So what?
What food and drinks should Ibe be looking out for when I'm
in nepal?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
uh so, you've got to try momo, which are the
dumplings of nepal um, they'retibetan, I believe, um, but
they're really great.
They're just like dumplings andyou eat them with like a
chutney or like a sauce that'skind of spicy.
So, yeah, they're amazing.
You'll see them everywhere.
They're definitely worthgetting um.
The other really classic dishis called dal bat and it's
(17:54):
literally just rice and dal, butthere is something about dal
bat that is just so good andyou'll get it on like a thali
plate, which if people have beento india, they might have heard
of this, but it's a big platewith lots of like little dishes
and then like your rice and dalin the middle, and that's
actually a really good like abudget way to eat.
If you, if you're in Nepal andyou just want to keep costs low,
(18:15):
like the dal bat will always bepretty affordable on the menu
and you get free refills of likerice and dal and most of the
side dishes as well.
So that's, that's a classic.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You've got to try those is is the food spicy abio
um, it's a lot milder.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I'm the wrong person to ask, because my spice
tolerance is like through theroof.
Um, I find it milder than likeindian food, um, and I think
they are kind of used to havingforeigners there, so they do
tone it down a little bit.
But yeah, if you're everconcerned, just ask, and they're
so friendly and I'm surethey'll be able to accommodate
(18:53):
if you don't like things spicy.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Okay, so I'm going to ask you about etiquette and
kind of you know, cultural norms, things that we need to know to
to not offend Nepalese peopleor just to to be able to fit in
a bit better.
You know, it's a bit like notnot asking for a cappuccino
after lunch or in Italy, thosesort of tips.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, since we're talking about food, one thing
that actually comes to mind isthat it's quite rude to eat food
off somebody else's plate.
You're supposed to only eatfood off somebody else's plate.
You're supposed to only eatfood off your plate, which is,
yeah, I guess that's something abit unique that I haven't come
across in other places.
And then, of course, if you'revisiting cultural sites any
temples, places like that, aswomen and as men, actually just
(19:40):
cover up Shorts for men or womenaren't acceptable, and I know
the boys are like we're notallowed to wear shorts, what?
Just put pants on, bring someloose, like cotton or like chino
pants, like you can.
You can wear that for anafternoon, you'll survive.
Um.
And ladies like, just bring ato cover up like t-shirts are
better than um kind of strappytops or loose or low-cut tops,
(20:03):
um.
So, yeah, just be aware of that.
And I think like the best ruleof thumb, especially when you're
thinking about what to dress,is look at the Nepalese around
you.
What are they wearing at thesesites, and that's probably a
good clue at what you should bewearing.
Yeah, so that's, that'sprobably my, my two main pieces
of advice for for beingculturally sensitive.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Now there, culturally sensitive, those are good,
really helpful.
Now I actually have no ideaabout how expensive or not Nepal
is.
I should know, but I literallyhave no idea.
So, in terms of, I found Indiavery budget-friendly last year
when I was there.
Is Nepal comparable or areother ways that you can save
(20:46):
money in Nepal if it's a littlebit more expensive?
You know, where would you putit in terms of kind of cost for,
uh, somebody visiting?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I would put it quite similar to India, um, in terms
of being budget friendly.
Um, the US dollar does go quitefar in in Like.
For context, I think theconversion rate the US dollar is
100 Nepali rupees and a lunchlike a dalbat lunch that we were
talking about, might be 300 or400 rupees, so we're talking $3
(21:15):
or $4 for like a solid, solidmeal.
In terms of trekking and stuff,that kind of gets slightly more
expensive the more remoteyou're walking and the further
in the mountains you get,because everything that's up
there at your lodge at the topof this pass has been carried in
by somebody or it's come up ondonkeys if the, if the trail is
sort of big enough for that.
So, talking about dalba, again,we were paying ten dollars for
(21:39):
a plate when we were up in themountains and that was super
expensive.
Um, so it does kind of depend alittle bit on where you are,
and that's something to be awareof.
And similarly withaccommodation, like the further,
the more remote you're getting,the more expensive it gets.
And I think as well, like Nepalis just such a great place for
people of any budget.
If you want to do Nepal on asmaller budget, you totally can.
(22:02):
You can eat the local food.
You can catch like a businstead of flying to Pokhara Um,
and you can stay in these likesmaller, more budget friendly
guest houses.
But if you've got a massivebudget and you want to go crazy,
you can do scenic flights.
You can do helicopter tours.
I actually wouldn't advisedoing helicopters in Nepal.
They're not the most safe Um,planes generally seem to be
(22:25):
better.
But there's like fancy um, likefood places you can go, like
you can do.
You can do it as a luxury tripas well, but it would probably
be a more affordable luxury tripthan than somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, that's good to know.
So, um, is there anything elseyou want to share about Nepal?
I know we're going to be doingan episode in a minute with your
husband, who is from Kathmandu,which is going to be fantastic
and that's going to be comingout in five weeks.
That's episode 55.
But is there anything else thatyou can think of that would be
useful to share with visitorsplanning the first-time trip to
(22:58):
Nepal?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Because I'm going to end as you know, I always end
with the same question whichwould be what is your number one
tip for anyone planning tovisit a trip to Nepal?
Um, so, what else would youkind of say we need to know?
Yeah, I feel like we're reallywe've covered a lot there and I
think, um, yeah, my number onetip would just be, like, be open
to it and be open to what'sgoing to happen.
(23:19):
It is kind of like quite alaid-back culture and things can
change.
Um, plans can, plans can change, but, like, just have fun.
It's such a beautiful countryculturally.
I love it.
We, like I said, we're goingback there again and again and
again, and even once Isaac'sparents, um, my husband's
parents leave Nepal, I knowit'll be the destination that we
find ourselves coming back to.
(23:39):
So if it's your first timevisiting Nepal, it probably
won't be your last.
You might be back again.
But actually I've got one morenumber one tip, and this is to
kind of just avoid getting sick.
Um, don't, you don't want toget sick, so just be careful of
the water that you're drinkingwhile you're in Nepal.
Um, we took, you know, thosebottles you can get with a
(23:59):
filter in them.
Those are just really great andit means that you're're just,
you've got that extra level ofprotection everywhere you are
and it means you don't have tobuy, like plastic water bottles
that you're you're throwing away.
So that's a really really goodidea as well, just to keep
yourself safe, because you don'twant to end up in a Nepali
hospital probably not going tobe a fun experience no, no, I
don't think that's on anybody'sitinerary to do that for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But thanks so much, abigail, for joining us this
weekend and sharing yourexperience and love and
knowledge about Nepal.
It was brilliant to chat to youawesome.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Well, I'm excited for the episode in a couple of
weeks as well, because I thoughtI'd bring my husband in because
he's got the real knowledgeabout Kathmandu oh no, brilliant
.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
we're going to get on to record that in a minute, but
for this episode.
Thanks so much, abigail.
Thank you so much, tracey.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of the Global
Travel Planning Podcast.
For more details and links toeverything we discussed today,
check out the show notes atglobaltravelplanningcom.
Remember if you enjoyed theshow, please consider leaving us
(25:05):
a review on your favoritepodcast app, because your
feedback helps us reach moretravel enthusiasts, just like
you.
planning your first trip to Nepal and wondering
where to start, when is the besttime to visit, how do you get
around and what cultural tipsshould you know before you go?
This is episode 50 of theGlobal Travel Planner podcast,
where you'll discover everythingyou need to know as a
first-time visitor.
Hi and welcome to the GlobalTravel Planner podcast.
I'm your host, tracey Collins,who, with my expert guests, will
(00:22):
take you on a weekly journey todestinations around the globe,
providing travel inspiration,itinerary ideas, practical tips
and more to help you plan yournext travel adventure.
Hi, everybody, and welcome toepisode 50 of the Global Travel
(00:45):
Plan and Podcast.
And this week I'm very, veryexcited to talk to my friend,
abigail from Air TarouaAdventures, who is a fellow
podcaster and knows a lot aboutNepal.
So she's here today to kind ofshare all her tips for
first-time visitors, of which Iwill be.
So it'll be great to chat withyou all about Nepal, but let's
(01:07):
start off, abigail, by youintroducing yourself and telling
us a bit.
At the moment you're in theStates, but normally you don't
live in America.
You're just there visiting.
So where do you normally liveand what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well kia ora Tracey, it's a pleasure to be back on
the podcast again.
My zone of genius is usuallyNew Zealand travel, and that's
what we spoke about in aprevious episode.
I don't remember that numberoff the top of my head, but my
second favorite place in theworld is probably Nepal, so I'm
excited to talk about that today.
And yeah, I live in New Zealand.
(01:38):
I am a marketing, I run amarketing agency and I work with
travel brands, so it's all justa lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It is, and I actually should have mentioned that you
were previously in episode 16 ofthe podcast, talking all about
van life in New Zealand, whichwas a fantastic episode.
So if you have not been to NewZealand, if you're interested to
find out about New Zealand,definitely pop over and have a
listen, not only to episode 16,but also to Abigail's podcast as
(02:08):
well, which is excellent andall about travel around New
Zealand.
Now, so much for thatintroduction.
All about New Zealand.
Let's focus on Nepal today.
I mean, I could talk about NewZealand all day, because you
know how much I love it, butlet's learn about Nepal.
So what's your connection toNepal?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, well, also, I don't think I've told you this,
but we're moving into our vanfull time this year in New
Zealand, so there'll be a lotmore van life content coming, if
anyone else is wanting to do atrip.
But we were in Nepal just acouple of months ago.
Like Tracy said, I'm in theStates at the moment.
We've kind of done a round theworld trip where we left New
(02:51):
Zealand, went to Nepal, and ourconnection there is my husband's
parents live in Nepal.
My husband grew up in Nepal,lived there for 14 years.
His parents are still there, soit's very much a place we still
have a really strong connectionto.
So I think I've been there fivetimes.
Probably the first time wouldhave been 2015.
Yeah, it's a very special place, very close to our heart.
So that's our connection.
And if I was to describe Nepalto someone who's never been, I'd
(03:13):
say it's kind of like India,and I say that because I also
grew up in India, so that'sfamiliar to me.
But I feel like most peoplehave an idea what they think
India is.
So it's quite similar, but it'smore friendly, it's less
intense, it's less kind of inyour face.
So it's quite similar, but it'smore friendly, it's less
intense, it's less kind of inyour face and it's, yeah, just a
bit more laid back.
So I think I really love it forall of those reasons.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And, as you know, actually, I visited India last
year and completely fell in lovewith it.
I'm actually yet to talk aboutthat on a podcast.
That visit and we shouldactually talk about India, think
, in another episode.
Um, and and that kind of piquedmy interest because I loved
India, it absolutely captured myheart and, uh, our guide
actually lived.
She was from close to Nepal, sonot actually from Nepal, but
(03:57):
but she was talking all about itand she does trips to Nepal and
I was like, wow, this justsounds like something that's
right up my street, so I wouldbe a first-time visitor.
What so?
What sort of things do I needto know?
And edwin, listening and who'sthinking about you know, nepal
sounds like a fascinating placeto visit.
What do I need to know before Igo?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
yeah, I guess, um, nepal is really popular for a
lot of the people that love theoutdoors, like it's obviously
this amazing like massivetrekking destination.
People go on hikes.
Everest base camp is superpopular.
But in my opinion, do somethingelse, go to one of the less
known treks.
But it's also this incrediblecultural place and I know we're
(04:35):
going to talk about that more ina future episode because the
Kathmandu Valley is just thiskind of melting pot of like
Buddhist culture and Hinduculture and it's kind of like
super, super interesting andthere's so many historic sites
and unesco world heritage sites.
So I guess, like, before you goto nepal, you kind of need to
decide whether you want to stayin one place and just experience
(04:55):
culture, or if you want to goum into the mountains, do a trek
um, stay in katmandu and dosome cultural experiences, and
the other really cool thing youcan do is there's this location
called Chitwan and there's likea wildlife park so you can go on
safaris and stuff.
So like.
Nepal really does have it all,and there's.
There's just so much you canspend your time doing there.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It's really good to know, cause I guess when, when I
think about it, I was a bitoverwhelmed just at the thought
of it, because I kind of thinkabout Everest and I certainly
don't want it.
You know, I'm not a hiker, soit wouldn't be something that
I'd want to do, but there areother things that would appeal
to me and other things that I'dwant to do.
So I guess it's like so how doyou?
I mean, how do you kind ofdecide in terms of I kind of
(05:39):
think I'm interested in culture,I'm interested in food, I'm
interested in culture, I'minterested in food, I'm
interested in history.
So I don't necessarily want todo any hiking.
I don't want to say that anyhiking, but certainly not to
base camp, that's just not forme.
But how would I?
What are the?
What other things could I findto do?
I mean, what else is there thatyou would kind of say right,
(06:01):
you've discounted the hiking,but these are other ideas of
things to do.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah.
So there's plenty of culturallike UNESCO World Heritage Sites
in the Kathmandu Valley andthere's lots of sort of other
cultural things outside thevalley as well.
But I think like you want tokind of appreciate the scenery
and take that in when you gointo Nepal as well.
So there's plenty of likeluxury resorts and hotels that
you can stay at that just havethese like panoramic views of
(06:28):
like the tallest mountains inthe world, right, like I
remember my first time seeingthese mountains, because you
can't usually see them from theKathmandu Valley.
So we'd gone out to Pokhara.
The first couple of days werecloudy and we were out on
Pokhara Lake in a little rowboatand the clouds were starting to
clear and Isaac goes oh, look,there are the mountains.
And I'm like where, where arethe mountains?
I can't see them.
He said, no, look higher, lookhigher.
(06:50):
And I was like, whoa, there arethe mountains.
Like the scale of it is just sounreal, nothing like anywhere
else I've experienced.
So Pokhara is a really gooddestination.
It's a lakeside town and youcan kind of base yourself there.
I hear rumors that there's anew chairlift that kind of goes
up to this viewpoint.
(07:10):
So that could be something thatyou could do, and there's lots
of food and just like.
It's a little bit hippie or itused to be hippie back in the
day.
So there's plenty of stuff tojust kind of get involved in
along the lakefront there.
But you could just spend acouple of days walking down the
streets.
Yeah, there'll be plenty tokeep you busy, even if you don't
like hiking down the streets.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Um, yeah, there'll be plenty to keep you busy, even
if you don't like hiking.
And if so, how long do wouldyou reckon I should go for?
Because, as not as a non-hiker?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
um, I would say like a 10-day minimum especially.
So let me give you like a roughitinerary, okay.
Um, you can start in katmandu,have maybe one or two days there
.
Um, in a day you could probablyhit maybe half of the main
attractions and then if you'vegot a second day you can hit the
other half to do them reallywell, and then either fly, which
(07:56):
is a little bit more expensivefor international visitors, or
take a coach to Pokhara, whichon the coach I think it's about
10 hours.
The roads aren't great.
So, if you've got the budget,definitely worth flying and
that's a safe flight.
It's not like the one toEverest, which is kind of like a
dodgy airport.
So you get into Pokhara andthat's the lakeside town that I
was talking about.
(08:17):
So you can spend a couple ofdays there.
I went paragliding there.
If you want to, if that's kindof something you're interested
in, you can also do.
Like Tracy's shaking her head,there's like rafting and
whitewater activities that youcan do as well.
If that's not, if that's yourthing, probably also not you,
tracy but yeah, there's cafesand restaurants.
(08:40):
You can kind of just enjoy that.
You can go across the lake tothis monastery.
There's some caves.
So you can spend about threedays in Pokhara and then you can
either again fly or take acoach to Chitwan, which is where
that wildlife nature places.
You can go on a jeep safari.
They've got crocodiles, rhinos,tigers, you know all sorts like
(09:01):
.
So that I haven't actually donethat experience yet.
Um, so it's on the bucket list,but I've heard really good
things.
Um, and then, yeah, you go backto Kathmandu in a little
triangle, so like three days ineach place and that kind of
takes you to your 10 days.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's great.
Now that sounds perfect for me,but I would be remiss of all my
listeners who are into hiking,and I know you are a massive fan
of hiking.
So for those hikers out there,what, what, what would you
recommend that they look atdoing?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
yeah.
So I mentioned pokra, thelakeside town.
That really is a great hub forstarting hikes and it's set up
for that um.
So, again, you've got to findyour way from katmandu to pokra
and there's this really great,like I call it a short hike.
It's definitely short in umnepal standards because a lot of
their hikes are like two orthree weeks long, um, but this
(09:54):
is like a three night.
I think.
It's three nights, four days,and you can possibly do it in
two nights, three days.
And it's to a viewpoint whichlooks out.
It's called poon hill and itlooks out over the anapurna
ranges, which is this likestunning bowl of mountains and I
think the range has, I don'tknow, four mountains that are in
the top 10 tallest mountains inthe world or something like
(10:17):
that.
So on the actual morning, likeyou always do, a sunrise at Poon
Hill and it's supposed to bebeautiful.
Again, I haven't done thisparticular hike, but it was one
that is kind of on the bucketlist and if you've got longer,
if you've got a week, if you'vegot 10 days, two weeks a month,
there are so many other optionsfor hiking in Nepal and most of
(10:37):
them will start out of Pokharaas well.
A few of them might start outof Kathmandu.
For example, if you're doingEverest, you fly to Lukla and
then you start walking fromthere.
So there's plenty of options.
I think the other thing I wouldsay is all the Nepali tour
guides and trekking companies doa really good job.
(10:58):
They know what's up.
They do this day in and day out.
So for most of them, andparticularly if you're in a
conservation area, you have tohave a guide.
A lot of people will choose totake a porter as well, and the
porters carry your bags and somepeople get a bit weird about
that, but it's part of theculture and you're still
supporting the economy and,honestly, it makes trekking so
(11:20):
much easier when you're notcarrying two weeks of stuff on
your back.
So, yeah, that's something thatlisteners can kind of look into
as well.
But it's a very different wayof hiking and I enjoy it.
It's like it's a lot morerelaxed.
There's tea houses along theway, there's restaurants where
you can stop and get a hot meal.
So it's different to like inNew Zealand, for example.
(11:44):
We go out into the bush, intothe wilderness, and there's
nothing.
You bring everything in withyou, you take it all out.
Um, it's quite different andmost of the trekking trails are
kind of along these.
They pass through like historicvillages.
So yeah, it's, it's great.
I love trekking in nepal and Iknow everyone who listens will
they'll love it too it doessound.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It does sound amazing , I have to say, and, um, I like
the idea of not having to carrymy own pack and all the rest of
it because I know I wouldstruggle.
And I was just talking toDaniel, actually for the UK
Travel Planet podcast, he's justreturned from Kilimanjaro, um,
and and climbed.
I was like fascinated to chatabout that.
That was amazing.
So I don't.
I do say that I don't hike andyou know I have done a short-ish
(12:25):
hike in New Zealand andabsolutely loved it.
But what sort of level offitness do you need to do these
hikes in Nepal, abigail?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, this is a super interesting question, and when
we were back there two weeks,two months ago, I'm not a very
fit person.
Yes, I do go hiking, but Iusually do like no physical
activity for two months and thenI go on like a three-day hike
and my body's like what are youdoing?
Doing so?
I probably need to change thatand actually do some more
(12:54):
physical exercise in between.
But the thing about trekking inNepal is not actually about how
fit you are, but it's about thealtitude.
Right when we went trekking in,yeah, a couple months ago, we
started our trek at 3 000 metersand, for reference, the tallest
mountain in New Zealand, whichis still pretty tall, is like
(13:14):
three and a half thousand meters.
So you're already really highup.
I don't know how tallKilimanjaro is or any other
mountains, to kind of givepeople a reference, but you're
starting at three and wefinished at I don't know four
and a half, I think.
So where we finished our hikeis taller than New Zealand's
tallest mountain.
So altitude sickness is a thing, um, and what that means is
(13:38):
your body just there's lessoxygen in the air because
there's less air and your bodyjust needs to take time to kind
of figure out how to absorb moreoxygen.
So if you're up in themountains for a long time, your
body actually makes more redblood cells.
But I won't go into the scienceof it.
Basically, altitude sickness canaffect anybody, no matter how
(14:00):
much training you've done, nomatter how fit you are or if
you've done nothing at all.
It doesn't like it can impactanyone and it seems to be pretty
random.
It doesn't discriminate againstage or, yeah, it just it can
affect anyone.
So you, so it's good to be fit.
But you can't sort of train orplan for altitude sickness and
me, having not done any trainingfor our trek that we did two
(14:22):
months ago, I was fine and youcan take meds beforehand and all
of the tour companies will knowabout altitude sickness and the
way to kind of just prevent itis just to go slowly up the hill
.
So you're only gaining about Ithink they say, 200 or 300
meters a day, which isn't much.
So that's why the trekking isalso quite easy is because
(14:45):
you're not going up a thousandmeters like up a steep mountain.
You're doing a little bit andyou're stopping and you're doing
a little bit more and you'renot going up, you know, a
thousand meters, like up a steepmountain.
You're doing a little bit andyou're stopping, and you're
doing a little bit more andyou're stopping, so that your
body can adjust.
And if you do get sick, it'snot the end of the world.
You just go back down and yourbody is like okay, we can
breathe again, we're okay.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, it's definitely .
It's definitely appealing morethe fact that you said it's slow
.
That sounds good.
That sounds like that wouldappeal to me, because I
certainly don't want to go upany very steep mountains.
It's not for me.
The flat of the bed or a slightgradient I can deal with.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
There's this um, there's this thing called nepali
flat um, and that is nothing isflat.
Everything is up or down allright, I'll have.
I'll have to think about that Ineed to look at some of your
photographs, I think now whatabout the?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
best time of year to visit Nepal.
Is there a best time of year tovisit or a time yet to avoid
great?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
question yeah, so the busiest time of year is um
April and October, and that'sbecause it's the best time for
trekking.
That's kind of spring andautumn I guess, and that's when
it's not too hot, it's not toocold, it's not dangerous with
any of the snow.
So those are kind of, if youwant to be trekking, definitely
go there in April or October andthen like a couple of months
(16:02):
either side of that.
So we were there trekking inearly November, for example.
In early November, for example,the monsoon kind of sits
between I think it's like June,july, through to September
somewhere around there.
So you probably want to beavoiding monsoon, unless that's
your thing.
But transport becomes a littlebit more risky because
(16:26):
everything is a hill.
They have a lot of landslides,roads get washed away all the
time.
Um, I think this is actuallysomething I need to prepare
first time listeners for, uh,the, the roads in Nepal, they,
uh, they, uh.
Yeah, not really roads as wethink of them.
They're not usually paved.
If they are, they're full ofpotholes and it's just because
(16:46):
of the nature of the landscape.
Like every couple of of years,a landslide comes through and
washes it out, so they've got torebuild it and so, um, that's
definitely something to beprepared for.
Um, but yeah, april and octoberbest times to visit.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Okay, sounds good, and you kind of touched on there
before about getting around.
So the easiest way to getaround is literally a bus or
flying.
Those are your options.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if it's just around town,if it's around Kathmandu, then
taxis are really affordable.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah going to pivot to my one of my favorite topics
to talk about now.
I know you love talking aboutyou love talking about hiking.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I like talking about food.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So what?
What food and drinks should Ibe be looking out for when I'm
in nepal?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
uh so, you've got to try momo, which are the
dumplings of nepal um, they'retibetan, I believe, um, but
they're really great.
They're just like dumplings andyou eat them with like a
chutney or like a sauce that'skind of spicy.
So, yeah, they're amazing.
You'll see them everywhere.
They're definitely worthgetting um.
The other really classic dishis called dal bat and it's
(17:54):
literally just rice and dal, butthere is something about dal
bat that is just so good andyou'll get it on like a thali
plate, which if people have beento india, they might have heard
of this, but it's a big platewith lots of like little dishes
and then like your rice and dalin the middle, and that's
actually a really good like abudget way to eat.
If you, if you're in Nepal andyou just want to keep costs low,
(18:15):
like the dal bat will always bepretty affordable on the menu
and you get free refills of likerice and dal and most of the
side dishes as well.
So that's, that's a classic.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You've got to try those is is the food spicy abio
um, it's a lot milder.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I'm the wrong person to ask, because my spice
tolerance is like through theroof.
Um, I find it milder than likeindian food, um, and I think
they are kind of used to havingforeigners there, so they do
tone it down a little bit.
But yeah, if you're everconcerned, just ask, and they're
so friendly and I'm surethey'll be able to accommodate
(18:53):
if you don't like things spicy.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Okay, so I'm going to ask you about etiquette and
kind of you know, cultural norms, things that we need to know to
to not offend Nepalese peopleor just to to be able to fit in
a bit better.
You know, it's a bit like notnot asking for a cappuccino
after lunch or in Italy, thosesort of tips.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, since we're talking about food, one thing
that actually comes to mind isthat it's quite rude to eat food
off somebody else's plate.
You're supposed to only eatfood off somebody else's plate.
You're supposed to only eatfood off your plate, which is,
yeah, I guess that's something abit unique that I haven't come
across in other places.
And then, of course, if you'revisiting cultural sites any
temples, places like that, aswomen and as men, actually just
(19:40):
cover up Shorts for men or womenaren't acceptable, and I know
the boys are like we're notallowed to wear shorts, what?
Just put pants on, bring someloose, like cotton or like chino
pants, like you can.
You can wear that for anafternoon, you'll survive.
Um.
And ladies like, just bring ato cover up like t-shirts are
better than um kind of strappytops or loose or low-cut tops,
(20:03):
um.
So, yeah, just be aware of that.
And I think like the best ruleof thumb, especially when you're
thinking about what to dress,is look at the Nepalese around
you.
What are they wearing at thesesites, and that's probably a
good clue at what you should bewearing.
Yeah, so that's, that'sprobably my, my two main pieces
of advice for for beingculturally sensitive.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Now there, culturally sensitive, those are good,
really helpful.
Now I actually have no ideaabout how expensive or not Nepal
is.
I should know, but I literallyhave no idea.
So, in terms of, I found Indiavery budget-friendly last year
when I was there.
Is Nepal comparable or areother ways that you can save
(20:46):
money in Nepal if it's a littlebit more expensive?
You know, where would you putit in terms of kind of cost for,
uh, somebody visiting?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I would put it quite similar to India, um, in terms
of being budget friendly.
Um, the US dollar does go quitefar in in Like.
For context, I think theconversion rate the US dollar is
100 Nepali rupees and a lunchlike a dalbat lunch that we were
talking about, might be 300 or400 rupees, so we're talking $3
(21:15):
or $4 for like a solid, solidmeal.
In terms of trekking and stuff,that kind of gets slightly more
expensive the more remoteyou're walking and the further
in the mountains you get,because everything that's up
there at your lodge at the topof this pass has been carried in
by somebody or it's come up ondonkeys if the, if the trail is
sort of big enough for that.
So, talking about dalba, again,we were paying ten dollars for
(21:39):
a plate when we were up in themountains and that was super
expensive.
Um, so it does kind of depend alittle bit on where you are,
and that's something to be awareof.
And similarly withaccommodation, like the further,
the more remote you're getting,the more expensive it gets.
And I think as well, like Nepalis just such a great place for
people of any budget.
If you want to do Nepal on asmaller budget, you totally can.
(22:02):
You can eat the local food.
You can catch like a businstead of flying to Pokhara Um,
and you can stay in these likesmaller, more budget friendly
guest houses.
But if you've got a massivebudget and you want to go crazy,
you can do scenic flights.
You can do helicopter tours.
I actually wouldn't advisedoing helicopters in Nepal.
They're not the most safe Um,planes generally seem to be
(22:25):
better.
But there's like fancy um, likefood places you can go, like
you can do.
You can do it as a luxury tripas well, but it would probably
be a more affordable luxury tripthan than somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, that's good to know.
So, um, is there anything elseyou want to share about Nepal?
I know we're going to be doingan episode in a minute with your
husband, who is from Kathmandu,which is going to be fantastic
and that's going to be comingout in five weeks.
That's episode 55.
But is there anything else thatyou can think of that would be
useful to share with visitorsplanning the first-time trip to
(22:58):
Nepal?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Because I'm going to end as you know, I always end
with the same question whichwould be what is your number one
tip for anyone planning tovisit a trip to Nepal?
Um, so, what else would youkind of say we need to know?
Yeah, I feel like we're reallywe've covered a lot there and I
think, um, yeah, my number onetip would just be, like, be open
to it and be open to what'sgoing to happen.
(23:19):
It is kind of like quite alaid-back culture and things can
change.
Um, plans can, plans can change, but, like, just have fun.
It's such a beautiful countryculturally.
I love it.
We, like I said, we're goingback there again and again and
again, and even once Isaac'sparents, um, my husband's
parents leave Nepal, I knowit'll be the destination that we
find ourselves coming back to.
(23:39):
So if it's your first timevisiting Nepal, it probably
won't be your last.
You might be back again.
But actually I've got one morenumber one tip, and this is to
kind of just avoid getting sick.
Um, don't, you don't want toget sick, so just be careful of
the water that you're drinkingwhile you're in Nepal.
Um, we took, you know, thosebottles you can get with a
(23:59):
filter in them.
Those are just really great andit means that you're're just,
you've got that extra level ofprotection everywhere you are
and it means you don't have tobuy, like plastic water bottles
that you're you're throwing away.
So that's a really really goodidea as well, just to keep
yourself safe, because you don'twant to end up in a Nepali
hospital probably not going tobe a fun experience no, no, I
don't think that's on anybody'sitinerary to do that for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But thanks so much, abigail, for joining us this
weekend and sharing yourexperience and love and
knowledge about Nepal.
It was brilliant to chat to youawesome.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Well, I'm excited for the episode in a couple of
weeks as well, because I thoughtI'd bring my husband in because
he's got the real knowledgeabout Kathmandu oh no, brilliant
.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
we're going to get on to record that in a minute, but
for this episode.
Thanks so much, abigail.
Thank you so much, tracey.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of the Global
Travel Planning Podcast.
For more details and links toeverything we discussed today,
check out the show notes atglobaltravelplanningcom.
Remember if you enjoyed theshow, please consider leaving us
(25:05):
a review on your favoritepodcast app, because your
feedback helps us reach moretravel enthusiasts, just like
you.
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