May 27, 2024 • 34 mins
Can AI really be unbiased? Join us as we tackle this provocative question with telecommunications pioneer Eugenia Jordan. Eugenia has not only shaped the future of communications with her numerous patents but also conducted eye-opening experiments with ChatGPT, revealing significant biases in AI-generated images. Learn how these biases persist and what this means for data ethics and the balance of power in our digital age. We dive deep into the ethical implications of data scraping from creative talents and discuss who really holds the power when AI taps into these vast data sets.
Discover the transformative potential of AI, especially for those outside major urban centers, and why ethics, privacy, and data security must be at the forefront of AI development. Eugenia and our team also highlight the unique challenges women face in maintaining professional visibility, including name changes, and how current AI platforms often fall short. We'll discuss the need for more intuitive AI systems that can navigate nuanced contexts and the importance of community involvement in shaping AI's future. Tune in for an enriching conversation on making AI work for everyone while fostering inclusivity and equity in the digital landscape.
Spiritual guru, two-time #1 best-selling author, and higher consciousness advocate Shaman Isis (aka Cynthia L. Elliott) is on a mission to turn the tide of the mental and spiritual health crisis with mindfulness practices, incredible events, powerful content, and motivational storytelling that inspire your heroes journey! Learn more about her books, courses, speaking engagements, book signings, and appearances at ShamanIsis.com.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
GlowUp with Shaman Isis: An Edgy Podcast for Transformation and Higher Consciousness
Are you captivated by inspiring personal stories, hero’s journeys, and reflections on spirituality's place in modern life? Tune in to GlowUp with Shaman Isis, the bold and uplifting podcast by spiritual rockstar, 2x #1 best-selling author, and veteran podcaster Cynthia L. Elliott—aka Shaman Isis.
Discover more at ShamanIsis.com or SoulTechFoundation.org.
Follow her on social media at:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to Citizen Journalist.
I'm your host, shaman Isis, andI'm super excited about today's
episode because we're talkingabout my favorite topic, which
is artificial intelligence andcommunications as well, but
really focusing on artificialintelligence, and I'm delighted
to have you know a real maverickin artificial intelligence and
communications, eugenia Jordan.
(00:20):
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you so very, very much for having me here,
and you wouldn't believe it,because we're recording this
episode.
On the first one, the dog wasscratching the door and the dog
is scratching the door now, soI'm going to wiggle around, let
the dog out and then I'll beright back.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh, my gosh, you're so funny.
And then I'll be right back.
Oh, my gosh, you're so funny.
Eugenia and I recorded thisepisode the other day and, for
some bizarre reason which I havenot been able to figure out,
the last four episodes Irecorded of my podcast, which
I've been doing for a couple ofyears now, they do not exist
anywhere Not on Zoom, not on mycomputer, not in the cloud.
(01:03):
So we're re-recording, but thatjust gives us a chance to give
that much more of a deliciousinterview, right?
So, eugenia, you arefascinating.
You've got this incrediblebackground.
Not only are you an author,telecommunications pioneer, you
hold a dozen patents in the areaof artificial intelligence, and
(01:27):
you know just so many moreinteresting things.
So tell me what your thoughtsare about the current state of
AI.
Are you excited about it?
Do you think it's?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
going to change everything?
That is such a great questionand one of my actually two of my
patents.
They are on predictive AI,because AI is nothing new.
We use machine intelligence inmany industries.
We've been using it for a while.
So what is new is thegenerative AI, where AI produces
(02:03):
results based on the data thathumans input and train.
So there's many different typesof AI, from predictive, as I
mentioned, to conversational,and again, conversational AI is
nothing new.
We have chatbots pre-programmedchatbots that have been running
on many different websitesairlines, retail for a while.
(02:27):
So what is new is thatpredictive AI, chatbot or
conversational AI are nowmerging with generative AI, and
that creates a lot of issues.
Like you and I, we discussedit's garbage in, garbage out,
(02:47):
bias in, bias out, and we weretalking about me doing
experiments with the version ofolder chat GPT and newer chat
GPT that was released a fewweeks ago around what an
engineer might look like.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You guys are going to love this.
You can ask AI what an engineerlooks like.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
In the graphic format .
So I gave very specific promptand I got a graphic of a white
engineer with a beard and I'mlike okay, so maybe I'm not
being specific enough.
So I went on Google and I saidwhat are the type of engineers
(03:37):
exist out there?
And there's about 30 typesmarine, electrical,
architectural, mechanical,electrical.
Because I'm a persistent personand I also wanted to have some
solid data, I entered them all.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh no, don't tell me, did you get a man every single
time, every single time, everysingle time, every time.
Now I would think in there,like just even just for like
statistical roll the dicepurposes, you'd get a couple of
women, but you got none.
It doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
None whatsoever.
And then I wanted to prove somepoints, because I already had
in my mind that idea of bias andit all comes down from who puts
the data in and how the data isbeing trained, and that's the
bias that we're used to.
So I asked, in a graphical form, what a doctor would look like.
(04:36):
It was a man.
What a nurse would look like?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Oh, of course it was.
It was a woman, right?
You know, I find this reallyinteresting because both of us
have communications backgrounds.
But I've been following AI fora really long time and while
simultaneously going through thephases that technology has been
going through with, you know,the advent of Google and all
those things and I noticed, youknow there's issues that have
(05:02):
never really been addressed withartificial intelligence, that
people don't seem to reallythink about and how.
You know how crazy it is thatone company can control so much
of the information highway foreverybody and just sort of get a
pass for it.
I mean, that was called amonopoly.
When I was a kid and, as well asyou know, playing with
(05:24):
artificial intelligence andseeing some of the issues, I
remember early on usinggenerative AI and I could see, I
recognized the artists thatwork was being utilized, even
people who weren't really superwell known, like a Da Vinci.
I was like, oh, I know, that's afantasy painter that does a
really incredible work.
And I was like, how is?
How is this going to work out?
And I remember thinking, howare they stealing all of this
(05:48):
data from?
And I assumed they werescraping the Internet and any
wherever they get a source ofdata of any kind that you get
access to free and paid, and itmade me really concerned about
you know what happens to all the, you know where's the pay,
where's the exchange of talentand uh cause, you know, as we
(06:09):
know and I'm sorry I'm bouncingaround here because this subject
gets me really excited but aswe know, like a chat, gpt is
going to be one of the biggestcompanies in the world, uh, and?
And yet it's built its businessand I love it, I love it, it's
great technology, but it's builtits ability to be that big
business off the backs ofwriters, artists, newspapers,
(06:30):
magazines, tv.
What do you think of all that?
How do you think that's goingto work out?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So they operate on a model ask for forgiveness later.
So if I were building open AI,because they started in 2016
when Elon Musk took the NVIDIAprocessor and gave it to Sam
Altman to build it out so it'sbeen going on for a while.
(07:00):
They've been building andtraining.
It didn't just happen overnightand appeared in November of
2022.
So they're going backwards alittle bit.
They're putting the agreementsin place with New York Times and
other publications signinglicensing agreements.
So they're doing it the rightway.
(07:21):
Now a little bit backwards, butyou brought up a really good
point about artists my son, whois a Gen Z, and the group of his
friends.
They wouldn't use Midjourneyearly on because Midjourney was
taking copyrighted art and thenrecreating it in their
(07:46):
generative AI art.
So having a generation that isaware of the work that goes in
to create something, it's veryimportant and having those
government acts that's why thereis I believe in Korea there are
governments that are meeting toaddress those issues of
(08:10):
copyright and with Da Vinci, soobviously his art was fed into
all those platforms how is itgoing to be addressed?
With written work, it's easier.
With New York Times or WallStreet Journal or some you know
authors, it's easy, becausethere are lawsuits with authors
(08:30):
as well.
It's easy to address.
But what about art that existedfor years and years and years?
Who's going to sign thoseagreements, and maybe it's the
museums that hold them, or maybesome non-profits that will give
grants to artists.
I don't know, but we need tofigure that out.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, we really do, because you know, as we know,
it's going to put a lot ofindustries out of business.
Now, sure, it'll create a lotof industries.
I think we all know it's goingto create new jobs.
There'll just be different jobsand we haven't gotten far
enough along to actually, youknow, really decide what those
jobs look like.
I do think more attention andtime and commitment needs to be
made to that because it's comingso quickly.
(09:17):
But you know, when massivechange is going on, we always
seem to be trying to fix itafter the fact, even though
we're aware of it.
When it's happening, like withGoogle, watching Google become
the dominant, I remember havingthese conversations and nobody
wanted to hear it at the timebecause we're so happy with what
we're able to do at the timethat we're not actually caring
about the repercussions of whatwe're deciding.
(09:39):
And now we've got a searchengine that's, I mean, and I
love Google, but it's corrupt inwhat it produces and that it's
almost.
I remember when you used to puta restaurant into Google and it
would show you the restaurantsnear where you lived, and most
of them were a lot of them weremom and pops, a lot of them were
chains, but a lot of them weremom and pops.
(10:01):
It was really based onproximity.
Now, when you put inrestaurants, you get like four
pages of of everybody who'spaying and and what that's done
is it's it's been in one morenotch in the crushing of
independent businesses andfamily owned businesses and, and
you know that kind of thing.
We can get ahead of it with AI.
What do you think in terms of,in terms of the changes that AI
(10:28):
is going to bring in, thepositive and the negative?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So it's a good question because I've been
thinking a lot about it.
I have an AI for Businessnewsletter that's growing like
crazy on LinkedIn and I've beenplaying with AI myself different
tools, from programming toolsthat make programmers more
(10:55):
efficient to going and open AIforums and asking how to improve
different types of prompts.
So I believe that AI is notgoing to take jobs.
It's going to make us moreefficient and it's going to help
us be better at our jobs.
(11:17):
So people that want to getahead of that wave, they need to
learn now.
Ai is not going to go away.
So if you want to stay relevant,go take those courses.
There are free coursesavailable.
There are YouTube videos.
There is many different tools.
(11:37):
You can go on OpenAI or HuggingFace forums and learn that.
So it's coming into this withthe perspective that AI is going
to say what can I do better tobe relevant and also what can I
do better for AI to be better?
(11:57):
And that is very important toprovide the feedback back to
companies that building thosetools on top of different LLMs
or SLMs.
So don't be just a user, but bean educated user and think
about the big picture where weneed to be as humanity 5, 6, 10,
(12:21):
20 years from now.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, you know I'm working on my third book right
now, called A New American Dream, and the whole point of the
book is talking about you know.
The point is is that now isreally the time.
Change is consistent.
We know it's the mostconsistent thing in life, but
being able to ride change anddirect it isn't something that
(12:46):
we're very good at, nor do weever really seem to have
conversations about it.
It's kind of like the changehappens and we go okay, let's
figure out how to make it workfor us now.
And it's like we've got thisprecious opportunity with
artificial intelligence toengineer all of it to not just
be great for business, becausethat seems to always be the
biggest motivator, but to begreat for people.
What are your thoughts on that?
(13:13):
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
So, absolutely.
And also when you said the newAmerican dream, this AI gives
opportunities to people to buildcompanies as well, so it
creates new opportunities forsomeone that is not based in a
big city like New York or Bostonor LA create an innovative
(13:39):
business using those platformsout of their home.
So there will be a lot of newbusinesses coming based on AI.
And it could be farmerscreating software to improve
farming.
Anyone can create AI platform.
(13:59):
So I have people reaching to meall the time asking to evaluate
their platforms, and I do it asa user happy to do it.
So that's the new Americandream is how can I build
platforms, tap into thisplatform to build better lives
(14:20):
for myself and my industry?
And number two, like you said,what's better for humanity,
what's better for people?
So, and I'm going to answer itfrom twofold so when you are a
business person, a professional,and you're implementing AI into
(14:42):
your workflows, think aboutprivacy, data privacy, data
security, but also ethics.
Implement it in your businessfrom ethical standpoint.
From ethical standpoint,partner with companies that hold
(15:09):
those values privacy, securityand ethics.
And number two, when you'rehuman as an individual and
you're trialing out all thosetools, provide feedback If you
see that it's not making stridesin the right direction.
Provide that feedback.
Have an you know open forum,linkedin or medium to discuss
(15:31):
how that can be improved.
I strongly believe one personcan make a huge difference.
Look at at Rosa Parks.
She's my inspiration when shesat on that bus seat.
So be like Rosa Parks, sit onthe bus seat and provide that
input, feedback, when you're aprofessional and when you're an
(15:53):
individual.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Love that answer.
You know, it's so true.
I talk a lot in mindfulnessabout the fact that we're kind
of taught to play small, youknow, keeps all the competitors
out, and then it really is up tous to crown ourselves.
It's up to us to own our Godand Goddess energy and to be our
divine self and to show up andcommand attention.
(16:16):
And it's okay.
And if people don't like it,they can lump it, because the if
people don't like it, they canlump it, because the people who
don't like it are basicallyunhappy with the way they're
showing up in the world.
It has nothing to do with usand and I and I think with ai
like I noticed this when I askedtwo students because I'm an
adjunct professor and I askedthem about ai and I'm always
shocked at how many of them havehave never tried artificial
intelligence.
(16:37):
And I'm like god, I'm like guys, you have to make it your
friend, stop being afraid of it,because it's not going anywhere
and it's going to dominateeverything.
It's going to change everyindustry.
It's impossible for it not to.
I'm very excited about it.
I think it's a wonderful timeto be alive.
It's an exciting time to bealive.
My biggest concern is how do weapproach artificial
(16:58):
intelligence from a consciousliving standpoint to really turn
it into a tool for a betterfuture, instead of a tool that
just makes more small segmentsof the global population extra
rich, because that's what thetrend has been.
Um sorry, giving littlespeeches over here.
I did want to ask your thoughtson something that I noticed it
in, and I would love to knowyour thoughts on how it could
(17:18):
correlate to sort of what we'reseeing with AI.
One of my frustrations with,like, say, google, is that, like
, I've had several names becauseI'm a female and my generation
got married and when we did that, our reputations would get
established.
So I had a very long career inmarketing and PR and unless you
know that name, you can't findthat history at all.
(17:41):
And it actually causes issuesfor me because people can't see
without going to the trouble ofgoing and reading.
You know my whole like, say,biography or looking at, but
even that's it's a lot to askpeople, especially when you've
been around a couple of decades,and I find that very
frustrating because it reducesthe opportunities that, as a
female leader, I should be given, because it's too much work for
(18:04):
someone to do to go find andsee all of the results of all
the things that I've done overtime and this isn't about me so
much, as, like in with Google,there was never any
consideration in the way that itwas structured in the lives of
women and how the way that itwas structured in the lives of
women and how that the way thatit is structured actually
impacts females, like there'snothing, even like.
I even looked into that once tosee.
(18:26):
Like you know, how do youfigure out what?
What multiple?
Can a woman actually listherself under multiple names and
outside of her own website orpaying?
There's really no way to fixthe results and I wonder, like,
what your thoughts are in termsof um.
One more example, and then Iwant to hear what you have to
say.
With chat gpt, one of myfrustrations is my pen name is
shaman isis, because I'm aspiritual teacher and isis is
(18:50):
the ancient egyptian goddess ofhealing.
She's.
She is not a group of men whodecided to create destruction in
the last 40 years of ourhistory.
But when you go into chat GPT,I'm not allowed to use the word
ISIS.
So a female goddess hasliterally been erased from AI
history because her name wasused in recent years by one
(19:14):
group, a group of men, you know,and I'm not trying to detract
from the horrific things thatthey did, but I wonder, if it
was a man, goddess, who had beenworshipped globally for 10,000
years, would they also haveerased him from history, like?
I just find that whole thinginteresting.
What are your thoughts on thosekinds of dynamics within
technology and communications?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Very, very interesting because I got
married as well 12 years ago.
I had to um rebuild my name andthe brand um under the new.
So it's I didn't even thinkabout it because um, mine
happened throughout, you know,um when I took advantage of of
(20:00):
LinkedIn and Medium and writingwith the new name.
So what needs to happen is it'sthe way we input data and the
way we structure the data.
So we talk about AI, generativeAI, but it needs to be also
(20:20):
intuitive AI to the needs, and Ithink that's the next step when
AI starts thinking as a human alittle bit and have different
variations.
So it's not black and whitebecause right now it's black and
white and it's very high level.
It's not black and whitebecause right now it's black and
(20:42):
white and it's very high levelsurface level.
If you ask chat GPT, for example, or if you ask other tools to
provide, like code snippets,it's very high level.
So I think it's the next stepis to look at all the
information and all thevariations and teach AI that
there is gray areas.
It's not just black and white.
(21:03):
So you're bringing up a reallygood point and leaders in AI
that build in AI they need tolisten to that input because it
will make AI better.
That's fantastic input.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, I was actually quite surprised that I
had actually posted severaltimes saying, hey, chat, gpt,
adobe was several generativeprograms, almost all of them.
I'm not allowed to use the wordISIS and this is not about me.
It's that I use experiences andexamples like that to foresee,
as a futurist, what that's goingto do.
And I already went through whathappened with Google.
(21:37):
Like it's.
It's nearly impossible forpeople to find find my history
because of the way it wasn'tstructured, with the
understanding that some people'snames will change over time.
It was actually designed basedon the way a man experiences
life.
And when I look at chat, gptand it's like erasing women from
history without actually seeingthat that like the fact that,
(21:57):
that they didn't respond to itthanks for the heads up, we'll
give it some consent.
Like the fact that they didn'trespond said, thanks for the
heads up, we'll give it some.
Like nothing, like I was.
Like do you guys not understandwhat I'm actually saying?
It's not about ISIS, it's aboutthe fact that you're actually
altering history because ofsomething more recent that's
politically sensitive but hasnothing to do with actual truth.
And when AI is engineered toonly produce the results that we
(22:20):
currently feel are politicallyappropriate.
It's not actually telling thetruth, and that's a huge problem
spitting out responses.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
In the future versions they will be asking
clarifying questions.
So I think that would beprobably the right direction,
because I remember seeing anexample where they would they
(22:51):
said oh, if you're writing aValentine's card for your
husband and currently it wouldjust spit out the card, in the
future chat GPT would say okay,tell me a little bit more about
your husband, instead of justgiving a canned answer.
So Chad GPT would say oh, doeshe like, I don't know, horses,
(23:12):
flowers, cars, whatever.
How did you meet?
So and maybe that's one ofthose nuances that with that
particular word there would be aclarifying question Do you mean
this or do you mean that?
So if you mean ISIS as aterrorist organization, that
(23:33):
it's no.
It's like they, workflow, they,the flow boom closed.
Workflow, the the flow boomclosed.
But if you mean it's as anancient quarters, then it's
there's more um branches in thatanswer.
So I'm hoping, when the newversion is there, you can ask
(23:53):
that question and see if there'sbranching, like they promised
that us that there would be yeah, you know, that's actually
really interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I love that you're saying that about the asking
questions, because I think thatactually makes a really great
point of the next evolution.
But also, you know, shouldn'tpeople be able to have input in
how they're seen?
Because we should have beenable to do that with Google, but
Google wasn't thinking aboutpeople.
They were thinking aboutorganizations and businesses and
how to make money andmonetizing.
(24:22):
But it ultimately reallyaffects people, particularly
women, until we no longer changeour names, which I'm sure have
a sneaking suspicion that's inthe future.
But do you think there's a wayfor people to tell AI who they
are, which is probably a strangecomment, but you know, it kind
(24:45):
of bears like having aconversation, because does it?
Why does it always have to beabout people who are powerful or
rich or famous?
You should be able to at leastinform, on a basic level, a
search engine or a data, youknow, I don't know.
I just think that's kind of aninteresting thought.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It is.
It is and there's an example ofWikipedia.
Because Wikipedia is opensource, anyone can contribute to
it and sometimes it's badthings, sometimes it's right
things.
So we should be able tocontribute to those results in
(25:22):
artificial intelligence andthere should be a process
involved where human willoversee, because we don't want
someone going in in AI andtarnishing our name or adding
some inconsistencies the wayWikipedia operates.
Maybe that model would be alsoused by Google with artificial
(25:49):
intelligence or chat GPT,because the process is there.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, that's actually a good idea.
My one challenge with Wikipediais that it's really a monetized
model that's not monetized bythe people who actually own it.
I get a content all the time bypeople, especially as an author
I know, you know what I'mtalking about by people who are
like you should have a Wikipediapage and I'm like, how much are
you charging?
Because I don't know if a lotof people understand that you
can do it yourself, but the waythey have engineered that
(26:17):
platform is really complicated.
It would probably take a personone to two days of studying and
actual consistent working justto put something forward and
then it can get kicked back byanybody, because I've had to do
this for clients.
But a lot of people may not knowthat most people pay to get
that Wikipedia profile and itrequires citations of public
(26:40):
documentation, like a TVinterview, things like that, and
so what that does is it makesbeing somebody about money,
which is already like such amassive issue.
But I'd only bring that upbecause I think that's
interesting, that it is actuallya great model for that and you
should be able to set up yourown AI Wikipedia type thing, but
(27:00):
it should be something thatyou're allowed to do with a
government ID as your own, youlike.
You're declaring your page likeyou would you declaring your ID
.
In fact, I'm sure thegovernment would just eat that
up so you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
So Google when I claimed my author's page on
Google, I had to send my ID withmy driver's license, like this.
When I created my YouTubechannel and I wanted to be able
to link to different sources, Ihad to do like this implement
(27:36):
that instead of asking for money, because there is a lot of
smaller creators, but alsounderrepresented scientists,
writers, artists.
They can afford that.
I remember that woman thatcreated like a thousand
wikipedia pages for scientists.
(27:56):
God bless for female scientists.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Love that, yeah, love that story.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right so, but you're absolutely right.
There should be some sort ofcontrols to be in place for
individuals who adjust their AI,and what you're suggesting is
brilliant.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, I think it would be interesting.
I mean, I think the fact is mostpeople don't feel like they
have any privacy anymore.
So it's like we're alreadyregistered on every social media
platform.
Like what's the difference inactually claiming your public
persona, if you will, and beingable to?
You know, it's probably itcould be a combination of like
it's a serious thing and youhave to show your ID and you
(28:37):
have to actually be the realperson and you get, you know,
spanked into trouble if youactually do anything false, but
that you can also have fun withit, like have a nickname and,
you know, share your books, andit would actually be kind of
interesting.
I mean, it definitely looks myintuition's telling me that, now
that I've said that out loudlike there's going to be an
announcement soon.
We're going to have agovernment database where you
can claim your page on AI,anyway, oh goodness.
(29:00):
So what do you before we go?
I would love to hear I want tohear about your book, of course,
but I do want to hear yourthoughts about the industries
that you think are going tobenefit the soonest from all the
incredible advancements inrobotics and artificial
intelligence and technology.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So obviously you and I, or any other professional,
can use AI tools now.
They can go in, get free trials, get on forums, so you don't
have to be in a particularindustry to use it now.
If we're looking at theparticular industries, it's
(29:44):
interesting and I believe thatprobably industries that always
been ahead of the technologywave, like FinTech or finance or
M&A or manufacturing they wouldbe probably way ahead with AI.
And then other industries thatrequire more regulations,
(30:10):
reviews, like telecom orhealthcare, they might be a
little bit behind.
So it's a phased approach andit all depends on the past.
If you implemented yourcloud-based IT infrastructure or
(30:30):
the first of the industries,like finance, then you're
probably going to be ahead of AIas well.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
That's great advice.
You guys, stop being afraid ofAI.
Make it your friend.
It's going to be there anyway.
You might as well ride it tosuccess.
Aside from the dozen patentsthat you have in AI, you're also
an author.
Tell us about your book book.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
It's right behind me, yeah, so it's called Unlimited.
It's a leadership book by awoman, by an immigrant, written
for women and immigrants thatwant to become leaders or
business owners and realizetheir full potential in
corporate America.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Love that.
I love it when women supportwomen through their work.
Yeah, it's incredible.
So much of my younger yearsthere was such a sense of
competition between women, andunderstandably so, because
that's what we were trying tosee each other, and it's been
beautiful in recent years to seehow many women are stepping up,
(31:41):
writing beautiful books andcreating organizations to
support women, so I love it.
Any last words If people wantedto learn about your work, where
would they go?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So they can Google Eugenia jordan and find me on
linkedin, twitter, instagram,youtube and my website.
So whenever you people are, youcan connect, follow and um.
It's all the channels,platforms are there.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much,eugenia, for joining us today to
talk about artificialintelligence.
I love it.
We'll have to catch up soon andtalk some more and see where
things are at.
Thanks you guys for listening toanother episode of Citizen
Journalist.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, what are you
thinking?
Intelligent listening?
Come now, go ahead andsubscribe and share the show
(32:38):
with your friends and family.
Here in Citizen Journalist wetalk about important topics and
how we can actually go fromsoundbites to solutions and
really implement a great futurefor humanity.
So if that sounds good to you,definitely be sure and subscribe
.
And I would like to mention tothose of you who have not
already ordered, memory Mansion.
My second book has been out fora few months now.
(33:00):
It hit number one.
It shares my journey fromTennessee orphanage to marketing
pioneer to spiritual socialactivist guru.
Like you know, when you getolder you have many titles,
folks.
Anyway, if you want to learnmore about the work that I do or
check out Soul Tech Magazine,please visit my website,
shamanisiscom or soultechworld,and get the dish on everything.
(33:25):
Anyway, thanks you guys andhave a beautiful week.
Hi and welcome to Citizen Journalist.
I'm your host, shaman Isis, andI'm super excited about today's
episode because we're talkingabout my favorite topic, which
is artificial intelligence andcommunications as well, but
really focusing on artificialintelligence, and I'm delighted
to have you know a real maverickin artificial intelligence and
communications, eugenia Jordan.
(00:20):
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you so very, very much for having me here,
and you wouldn't believe it,because we're recording this
episode.
On the first one, the dog wasscratching the door and the dog
is scratching the door now, soI'm going to wiggle around, let
the dog out and then I'll beright back.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh, my gosh, you're so funny.
And then I'll be right back.
Oh, my gosh, you're so funny.
Eugenia and I recorded thisepisode the other day and, for
some bizarre reason which I havenot been able to figure out,
the last four episodes Irecorded of my podcast, which
I've been doing for a couple ofyears now, they do not exist
anywhere Not on Zoom, not on mycomputer, not in the cloud.
(01:03):
So we're re-recording, but thatjust gives us a chance to give
that much more of a deliciousinterview, right?
So, eugenia, you arefascinating.
You've got this incrediblebackground.
Not only are you an author,telecommunications pioneer, you
hold a dozen patents in the areaof artificial intelligence, and
(01:27):
you know just so many moreinteresting things.
So tell me what your thoughtsare about the current state of
AI.
Are you excited about it?
Do you think it's?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
going to change everything?
That is such a great questionand one of my actually two of my
patents.
They are on predictive AI,because AI is nothing new.
We use machine intelligence inmany industries.
We've been using it for a while.
So what is new is thegenerative AI, where AI produces
(02:03):
results based on the data thathumans input and train.
So there's many different typesof AI, from predictive, as I
mentioned, to conversational,and again, conversational AI is
nothing new.
We have chatbots pre-programmedchatbots that have been running
on many different websitesairlines, retail for a while.
(02:27):
So what is new is thatpredictive AI, chatbot or
conversational AI are nowmerging with generative AI, and
that creates a lot of issues.
Like you and I, we discussedit's garbage in, garbage out,
(02:47):
bias in, bias out, and we weretalking about me doing
experiments with the version ofolder chat GPT and newer chat
GPT that was released a fewweeks ago around what an
engineer might look like.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You guys are going to love this.
You can ask AI what an engineerlooks like.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
In the graphic format .
So I gave very specific promptand I got a graphic of a white
engineer with a beard and I'mlike okay, so maybe I'm not
being specific enough.
So I went on Google and I saidwhat are the type of engineers
(03:37):
exist out there?
And there's about 30 typesmarine, electrical,
architectural, mechanical,electrical.
Because I'm a persistent personand I also wanted to have some
solid data, I entered them all.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh no, don't tell me, did you get a man every single
time, every single time, everysingle time, every time.
Now I would think in there,like just even just for like
statistical roll the dicepurposes, you'd get a couple of
women, but you got none.
It doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
None whatsoever.
And then I wanted to prove somepoints, because I already had
in my mind that idea of bias andit all comes down from who puts
the data in and how the data isbeing trained, and that's the
bias that we're used to.
So I asked, in a graphical form, what a doctor would look like.
(04:36):
It was a man.
What a nurse would look like?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Oh, of course it was.
It was a woman, right?
You know, I find this reallyinteresting because both of us
have communications backgrounds.
But I've been following AI fora really long time and while
simultaneously going through thephases that technology has been
going through with, you know,the advent of Google and all
those things and I noticed, youknow there's issues that have
(05:02):
never really been addressed withartificial intelligence, that
people don't seem to reallythink about and how.
You know how crazy it is thatone company can control so much
of the information highway foreverybody and just sort of get a
pass for it.
I mean, that was called amonopoly.
When I was a kid and, as well asyou know, playing with
(05:24):
artificial intelligence andseeing some of the issues, I
remember early on usinggenerative AI and I could see, I
recognized the artists thatwork was being utilized, even
people who weren't really superwell known, like a Da Vinci.
I was like, oh, I know, that's afantasy painter that does a
really incredible work.
And I was like, how is?
How is this going to work out?
And I remember thinking, howare they stealing all of this
(05:48):
data from?
And I assumed they werescraping the Internet and any
wherever they get a source ofdata of any kind that you get
access to free and paid, and itmade me really concerned about
you know what happens to all the, you know where's the pay,
where's the exchange of talentand uh cause, you know, as we
(06:09):
know and I'm sorry I'm bouncingaround here because this subject
gets me really excited but aswe know, like a chat, gpt is
going to be one of the biggestcompanies in the world, uh, and?
And yet it's built its businessand I love it, I love it, it's
great technology, but it's builtits ability to be that big
business off the backs ofwriters, artists, newspapers,
(06:30):
magazines, tv.
What do you think of all that?
How do you think that's goingto work out?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So they operate on a model ask for forgiveness later.
So if I were building open AI,because they started in 2016
when Elon Musk took the NVIDIAprocessor and gave it to Sam
Altman to build it out so it'sbeen going on for a while.
(07:00):
They've been building andtraining.
It didn't just happen overnightand appeared in November of
2022.
So they're going backwards alittle bit.
They're putting the agreementsin place with New York Times and
other publications signinglicensing agreements.
So they're doing it the rightway.
(07:21):
Now a little bit backwards, butyou brought up a really good
point about artists my son, whois a Gen Z, and the group of his
friends.
They wouldn't use Midjourneyearly on because Midjourney was
taking copyrighted art and thenrecreating it in their
(07:46):
generative AI art.
So having a generation that isaware of the work that goes in
to create something, it's veryimportant and having those
government acts that's why thereis I believe in Korea there are
governments that are meeting toaddress those issues of
(08:10):
copyright and with Da Vinci, soobviously his art was fed into
all those platforms how is itgoing to be addressed?
With written work, it's easier.
With New York Times or WallStreet Journal or some you know
authors, it's easy, becausethere are lawsuits with authors
(08:30):
as well.
It's easy to address.
But what about art that existedfor years and years and years?
Who's going to sign thoseagreements, and maybe it's the
museums that hold them, or maybesome non-profits that will give
grants to artists.
I don't know, but we need tofigure that out.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, we really do, because you know, as we know,
it's going to put a lot ofindustries out of business.
Now, sure, it'll create a lotof industries.
I think we all know it's goingto create new jobs.
There'll just be different jobsand we haven't gotten far
enough along to actually, youknow, really decide what those
jobs look like.
I do think more attention andtime and commitment needs to be
made to that because it's comingso quickly.
(09:17):
But you know, when massivechange is going on, we always
seem to be trying to fix itafter the fact, even though
we're aware of it.
When it's happening, like withGoogle, watching Google become
the dominant, I remember havingthese conversations and nobody
wanted to hear it at the timebecause we're so happy with what
we're able to do at the timethat we're not actually caring
about the repercussions of whatwe're deciding.
(09:39):
And now we've got a searchengine that's, I mean, and I
love Google, but it's corrupt inwhat it produces and that it's
almost.
I remember when you used to puta restaurant into Google and it
would show you the restaurantsnear where you lived, and most
of them were a lot of them weremom and pops, a lot of them were
chains, but a lot of them weremom and pops.
(10:01):
It was really based onproximity.
Now, when you put inrestaurants, you get like four
pages of of everybody who'spaying and and what that's done
is it's it's been in one morenotch in the crushing of
independent businesses andfamily owned businesses and, and
you know that kind of thing.
We can get ahead of it with AI.
What do you think in terms of,in terms of the changes that AI
(10:28):
is going to bring in, thepositive and the negative?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So it's a good question because I've been
thinking a lot about it.
I have an AI for Businessnewsletter that's growing like
crazy on LinkedIn and I've beenplaying with AI myself different
tools, from programming toolsthat make programmers more
(10:55):
efficient to going and open AIforums and asking how to improve
different types of prompts.
So I believe that AI is notgoing to take jobs.
It's going to make us moreefficient and it's going to help
us be better at our jobs.
(11:17):
So people that want to getahead of that wave, they need to
learn now.
Ai is not going to go away.
So if you want to stay relevant,go take those courses.
There are free coursesavailable.
There are YouTube videos.
There is many different tools.
(11:37):
You can go on OpenAI or HuggingFace forums and learn that.
So it's coming into this withthe perspective that AI is going
to say what can I do better tobe relevant and also what can I
do better for AI to be better?
(11:57):
And that is very important toprovide the feedback back to
companies that building thosetools on top of different LLMs
or SLMs.
So don't be just a user, but bean educated user and think
about the big picture where weneed to be as humanity 5, 6, 10,
(12:21):
20 years from now.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, you know I'm working on my third book right
now, called A New American Dream, and the whole point of the
book is talking about you know.
The point is is that now isreally the time.
Change is consistent.
We know it's the mostconsistent thing in life, but
being able to ride change anddirect it isn't something that
(12:46):
we're very good at, nor do weever really seem to have
conversations about it.
It's kind of like the changehappens and we go okay, let's
figure out how to make it workfor us now.
And it's like we've got thisprecious opportunity with
artificial intelligence toengineer all of it to not just
be great for business, becausethat seems to always be the
biggest motivator, but to begreat for people.
What are your thoughts on that?
(13:13):
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
So, absolutely.
And also when you said the newAmerican dream, this AI gives
opportunities to people to buildcompanies as well, so it
creates new opportunities forsomeone that is not based in a
big city like New York or Bostonor LA create an innovative
(13:39):
business using those platformsout of their home.
So there will be a lot of newbusinesses coming based on AI.
And it could be farmerscreating software to improve
farming.
Anyone can create AI platform.
(13:59):
So I have people reaching to meall the time asking to evaluate
their platforms, and I do it asa user happy to do it.
So that's the new Americandream is how can I build
platforms, tap into thisplatform to build better lives
(14:20):
for myself and my industry?
And number two, like you said,what's better for humanity,
what's better for people?
So, and I'm going to answer itfrom twofold so when you are a
business person, a professional,and you're implementing AI into
(14:42):
your workflows, think aboutprivacy, data privacy, data
security, but also ethics.
Implement it in your businessfrom ethical standpoint.
From ethical standpoint,partner with companies that hold
(15:09):
those values privacy, securityand ethics.
And number two, when you'rehuman as an individual and
you're trialing out all thosetools, provide feedback If you
see that it's not making stridesin the right direction.
Provide that feedback.
Have an you know open forum,linkedin or medium to discuss
(15:31):
how that can be improved.
I strongly believe one personcan make a huge difference.
Look at at Rosa Parks.
She's my inspiration when shesat on that bus seat.
So be like Rosa Parks, sit onthe bus seat and provide that
input, feedback, when you're aprofessional and when you're an
(15:53):
individual.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Love that answer.
You know, it's so true.
I talk a lot in mindfulnessabout the fact that we're kind
of taught to play small, youknow, keeps all the competitors
out, and then it really is up tous to crown ourselves.
It's up to us to own our Godand Goddess energy and to be our
divine self and to show up andcommand attention.
(16:16):
And it's okay.
And if people don't like it,they can lump it, because the if
people don't like it, they canlump it, because the people who
don't like it are basicallyunhappy with the way they're
showing up in the world.
It has nothing to do with usand and I and I think with ai
like I noticed this when I askedtwo students because I'm an
adjunct professor and I askedthem about ai and I'm always
shocked at how many of them havehave never tried artificial
intelligence.
(16:37):
And I'm like god, I'm like guys, you have to make it your
friend, stop being afraid of it,because it's not going anywhere
and it's going to dominateeverything.
It's going to change everyindustry.
It's impossible for it not to.
I'm very excited about it.
I think it's a wonderful timeto be alive.
It's an exciting time to bealive.
My biggest concern is how do weapproach artificial
(16:58):
intelligence from a consciousliving standpoint to really turn
it into a tool for a betterfuture, instead of a tool that
just makes more small segmentsof the global population extra
rich, because that's what thetrend has been.
Um sorry, giving littlespeeches over here.
I did want to ask your thoughtson something that I noticed it
in, and I would love to knowyour thoughts on how it could
(17:18):
correlate to sort of what we'reseeing with AI.
One of my frustrations with,like, say, google, is that, like
, I've had several names becauseI'm a female and my generation
got married and when we did that, our reputations would get
established.
So I had a very long career inmarketing and PR and unless you
know that name, you can't findthat history at all.
(17:41):
And it actually causes issuesfor me because people can't see
without going to the trouble ofgoing and reading.
You know my whole like, say,biography or looking at, but
even that's it's a lot to askpeople, especially when you've
been around a couple of decades,and I find that very
frustrating because it reducesthe opportunities that, as a
female leader, I should be given, because it's too much work for
(18:04):
someone to do to go find andsee all of the results of all
the things that I've done overtime and this isn't about me so
much, as, like in with Google,there was never any
consideration in the way that itwas structured in the lives of
women and how the way that itwas structured in the lives of
women and how that the way thatit is structured actually
impacts females, like there'snothing, even like.
I even looked into that once tosee.
(18:26):
Like you know, how do youfigure out what?
What multiple?
Can a woman actually listherself under multiple names and
outside of her own website orpaying?
There's really no way to fixthe results and I wonder, like,
what your thoughts are in termsof um.
One more example, and then Iwant to hear what you have to
say.
With chat gpt, one of myfrustrations is my pen name is
shaman isis, because I'm aspiritual teacher and isis is
(18:50):
the ancient egyptian goddess ofhealing.
She's.
She is not a group of men whodecided to create destruction in
the last 40 years of ourhistory.
But when you go into chat GPT,I'm not allowed to use the word
ISIS.
So a female goddess hasliterally been erased from AI
history because her name wasused in recent years by one
(19:14):
group, a group of men, you know,and I'm not trying to detract
from the horrific things thatthey did, but I wonder, if it
was a man, goddess, who had beenworshipped globally for 10,000
years, would they also haveerased him from history, like?
I just find that whole thinginteresting.
What are your thoughts on thosekinds of dynamics within
technology and communications?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Very, very interesting because I got
married as well 12 years ago.
I had to um rebuild my name andthe brand um under the new.
So it's I didn't even thinkabout it because um, mine
happened throughout, you know,um when I took advantage of of
(20:00):
LinkedIn and Medium and writingwith the new name.
So what needs to happen is it'sthe way we input data and the
way we structure the data.
So we talk about AI, generativeAI, but it needs to be also
(20:20):
intuitive AI to the needs, and Ithink that's the next step when
AI starts thinking as a human alittle bit and have different
variations.
So it's not black and whitebecause right now it's black and
white and it's very high level.
It's not black and whitebecause right now it's black and
(20:42):
white and it's very high levelsurface level.
If you ask chat GPT, for example, or if you ask other tools to
provide, like code snippets,it's very high level.
So I think it's the next stepis to look at all the
information and all thevariations and teach AI that
there is gray areas.
It's not just black and white.
(21:03):
So you're bringing up a reallygood point and leaders in AI
that build in AI they need tolisten to that input because it
will make AI better.
That's fantastic input.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, I was actually quite surprised that I
had actually posted severaltimes saying, hey, chat, gpt,
adobe was several generativeprograms, almost all of them.
I'm not allowed to use the wordISIS and this is not about me.
It's that I use experiences andexamples like that to foresee,
as a futurist, what that's goingto do.
And I already went through whathappened with Google.
(21:37):
Like it's.
It's nearly impossible forpeople to find find my history
because of the way it wasn'tstructured, with the
understanding that some people'snames will change over time.
It was actually designed basedon the way a man experiences
life.
And when I look at chat, gptand it's like erasing women from
history without actually seeingthat that like the fact that,
(21:57):
that they didn't respond to itthanks for the heads up, we'll
give it some consent.
Like the fact that they didn'trespond said, thanks for the
heads up, we'll give it some.
Like nothing, like I was.
Like do you guys not understandwhat I'm actually saying?
It's not about ISIS, it's aboutthe fact that you're actually
altering history because ofsomething more recent that's
politically sensitive but hasnothing to do with actual truth.
And when AI is engineered toonly produce the results that we
(22:20):
currently feel are politicallyappropriate.
It's not actually telling thetruth, and that's a huge problem
spitting out responses.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
In the future versions they will be asking
clarifying questions.
So I think that would beprobably the right direction,
because I remember seeing anexample where they would they
(22:51):
said oh, if you're writing aValentine's card for your
husband and currently it wouldjust spit out the card, in the
future chat GPT would say okay,tell me a little bit more about
your husband, instead of justgiving a canned answer.
So Chad GPT would say oh, doeshe like, I don't know, horses,
(23:12):
flowers, cars, whatever.
How did you meet?
So and maybe that's one ofthose nuances that with that
particular word there would be aclarifying question Do you mean
this or do you mean that?
So if you mean ISIS as aterrorist organization, that
(23:33):
it's no.
It's like they, workflow, they,the flow boom closed.
Workflow, the the flow boomclosed.
But if you mean it's as anancient quarters, then it's
there's more um branches in thatanswer.
So I'm hoping, when the newversion is there, you can ask
(23:53):
that question and see if there'sbranching, like they promised
that us that there would be yeah, you know, that's actually
really interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I love that you're saying that about the asking
questions, because I think thatactually makes a really great
point of the next evolution.
But also, you know, shouldn'tpeople be able to have input in
how they're seen?
Because we should have beenable to do that with Google, but
Google wasn't thinking aboutpeople.
They were thinking aboutorganizations and businesses and
how to make money andmonetizing.
(24:22):
But it ultimately reallyaffects people, particularly
women, until we no longer changeour names, which I'm sure have
a sneaking suspicion that's inthe future.
But do you think there's a wayfor people to tell AI who they
are, which is probably a strangecomment, but you know, it kind
(24:45):
of bears like having aconversation, because does it?
Why does it always have to beabout people who are powerful or
rich or famous?
You should be able to at leastinform, on a basic level, a
search engine or a data, youknow, I don't know.
I just think that's kind of aninteresting thought.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It is.
It is and there's an example ofWikipedia.
Because Wikipedia is opensource, anyone can contribute to
it and sometimes it's badthings, sometimes it's right
things.
So we should be able tocontribute to those results in
(25:22):
artificial intelligence andthere should be a process
involved where human willoversee, because we don't want
someone going in in AI andtarnishing our name or adding
some inconsistencies the wayWikipedia operates.
Maybe that model would be alsoused by Google with artificial
(25:49):
intelligence or chat GPT,because the process is there.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, that's actually a good idea.
My one challenge with Wikipediais that it's really a monetized
model that's not monetized bythe people who actually own it.
I get a content all the time bypeople, especially as an author
I know, you know what I'mtalking about by people who are
like you should have a Wikipediapage and I'm like, how much are
you charging?
Because I don't know if a lotof people understand that you
can do it yourself, but the waythey have engineered that
(26:17):
platform is really complicated.
It would probably take a personone to two days of studying and
actual consistent working justto put something forward and
then it can get kicked back byanybody, because I've had to do
this for clients.
But a lot of people may not knowthat most people pay to get
that Wikipedia profile and itrequires citations of public
(26:40):
documentation, like a TVinterview, things like that, and
so what that does is it makesbeing somebody about money,
which is already like such amassive issue.
But I'd only bring that upbecause I think that's
interesting, that it is actuallya great model for that and you
should be able to set up yourown AI Wikipedia type thing, but
(27:00):
it should be something thatyou're allowed to do with a
government ID as your own, youlike.
You're declaring your page likeyou would you declaring your ID
.
In fact, I'm sure thegovernment would just eat that
up so you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
So Google when I claimed my author's page on
Google, I had to send my ID withmy driver's license, like this.
When I created my YouTubechannel and I wanted to be able
to link to different sources, Ihad to do like this implement
(27:36):
that instead of asking for money, because there is a lot of
smaller creators, but alsounderrepresented scientists,
writers, artists.
They can afford that.
I remember that woman thatcreated like a thousand
wikipedia pages for scientists.
(27:56):
God bless for female scientists.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Love that, yeah, love that story.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right so, but you're absolutely right.
There should be some sort ofcontrols to be in place for
individuals who adjust their AI,and what you're suggesting is
brilliant.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, I think it would be interesting.
I mean, I think the fact is mostpeople don't feel like they
have any privacy anymore.
So it's like we're alreadyregistered on every social media
platform.
Like what's the difference inactually claiming your public
persona, if you will, and beingable to?
You know, it's probably itcould be a combination of like
it's a serious thing and youhave to show your ID and you
(28:37):
have to actually be the realperson and you get, you know,
spanked into trouble if youactually do anything false, but
that you can also have fun withit, like have a nickname and,
you know, share your books, andit would actually be kind of
interesting.
I mean, it definitely looks myintuition's telling me that, now
that I've said that out loudlike there's going to be an
announcement soon.
We're going to have agovernment database where you
can claim your page on AI,anyway, oh goodness.
(29:00):
So what do you before we go?
I would love to hear I want tohear about your book, of course,
but I do want to hear yourthoughts about the industries
that you think are going tobenefit the soonest from all the
incredible advancements inrobotics and artificial
intelligence and technology.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So obviously you and I, or any other professional,
can use AI tools now.
They can go in, get free trials, get on forums, so you don't
have to be in a particularindustry to use it now.
If we're looking at theparticular industries, it's
(29:44):
interesting and I believe thatprobably industries that always
been ahead of the technologywave, like FinTech or finance or
M&A or manufacturing they wouldbe probably way ahead with AI.
And then other industries thatrequire more regulations,
(30:10):
reviews, like telecom orhealthcare, they might be a
little bit behind.
So it's a phased approach andit all depends on the past.
If you implemented yourcloud-based IT infrastructure or
(30:30):
the first of the industries,like finance, then you're
probably going to be ahead of AIas well.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
That's great advice.
You guys, stop being afraid ofAI.
Make it your friend.
It's going to be there anyway.
You might as well ride it tosuccess.
Aside from the dozen patentsthat you have in AI, you're also
an author.
Tell us about your book book.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
It's right behind me, yeah, so it's called Unlimited.
It's a leadership book by awoman, by an immigrant, written
for women and immigrants thatwant to become leaders or
business owners and realizetheir full potential in
corporate America.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Love that.
I love it when women supportwomen through their work.
Yeah, it's incredible.
So much of my younger yearsthere was such a sense of
competition between women, andunderstandably so, because
that's what we were trying tosee each other, and it's been
beautiful in recent years to seehow many women are stepping up,
(31:41):
writing beautiful books andcreating organizations to
support women, so I love it.
Any last words If people wantedto learn about your work, where
would they go?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So they can Google Eugenia jordan and find me on
linkedin, twitter, instagram,youtube and my website.
So whenever you people are, youcan connect, follow and um.
It's all the channels,platforms are there.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much,eugenia, for joining us today to
talk about artificialintelligence.
I love it.
We'll have to catch up soon andtalk some more and see where
things are at.
Thanks you guys for listening toanother episode of Citizen
Journalist.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, what are you
thinking?
Intelligent listening?
Come now, go ahead andsubscribe and share the show
(32:38):
with your friends and family.
Here in Citizen Journalist wetalk about important topics and
how we can actually go fromsoundbites to solutions and
really implement a great futurefor humanity.
So if that sounds good to you,definitely be sure and subscribe
.
And I would like to mention tothose of you who have not
already ordered, memory Mansion.
My second book has been out fora few months now.
(33:00):
It hit number one.
It shares my journey fromTennessee orphanage to marketing
pioneer to spiritual socialactivist guru.
Like you know, when you getolder you have many titles,
folks.
Anyway, if you want to learnmore about the work that I do or
check out Soul Tech Magazine,please visit my website,
shamanisiscom or soultechworld,and get the dish on everything.
(33:25):
Anyway, thanks you guys andhave a beautiful week.
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