May 6, 2024 • 36 mins
Ever been set ablaze by the fierce glow of innovation and social justice? My encounter with Dr. Roopan Gill did just that, leaving me inspired to share our enlightening conversation with you. We traversed Dr. Gill's evolution from an OBGYN to a CEO passionate about pioneering digital healthcare solutions, while diving into the impact of Vitala Global and the groundbreaking app Aya Contigo." Together, we tackle the reverberations of Roe v. Wade's overturn and the implications for women's sexual and reproductive autonomy, all while celebrating the fiery activism that is reshaping the landscape of rights and healthcare.
A wave of green activism has swept from Latin America right to our doorstep, and in the face of efforts to roll back progress, it's more crucial than ever to champion the voices leading the charge. Dr. Gill and I peel back the layers of historic oppression and examine how today's youth are rewriting the script with their relentless pursuit of equality and knowledge. As we reflect on the powerful intersection of spirituality and activism, we take you through our shared vision of the resilience required to kindle societal change, especially within the complex tapestry of abortion rights work.
Closing our session, we venture into the realm of spiritual practice and its role in empowering women. With a nod to Aya Contigo's mission to provide healthcare support, we highlight the inarguable necessity for women to command their health choices. As we bid farewell, I leave you with stories of comp
Spiritual guru, two-time #1 best-selling author, and higher consciousness advocate Shaman Isis (aka Cynthia L. Elliott) is on a mission to turn the tide of the mental and spiritual health crisis with mindfulness practices, incredible events, powerful content, and motivational storytelling that inspire your heroes journey! Learn more about her books, courses, speaking engagements, book signings, and appearances at ShamanIsis.com.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
GlowUp with Shaman Isis: An Edgy Podcast for Transformation and Higher Consciousness
Are you captivated by inspiring personal stories, hero’s journeys, and reflections on spirituality's place in modern life? Tune in to GlowUp with Shaman Isis, the bold and uplifting podcast by spiritual rockstar, 2x #1 best-selling author, and veteran podcaster Cynthia L. Elliott—aka Shaman Isis.
Discover more at ShamanIsis.com or SoulTechFoundation.org.
Follow her on social media at:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shaman Isis (00:01):
Hey you guys and welcome to Citizen Journalist.
I'm your host, shaman Isis, andI have a really fascinating
guest today and we're going tobe talking about a super
important topic.
Dr Rupan Gill, thank you somuch for joining us for our
episode today.
I'm jacked to talk to you aboutVitala Global and Aya Contigo.
Am I pronouncing it correct?
Dr. Roopan Gill (00:21):
Yes, Totally yes.
Shaman Isis (00:22):
Yeah, and the mission of the work that you do.
Just for the listeners to know,I had the chance to hear Vitala
Global speak at an event in NewYork City recently and it was
so empowering.
The women in the room were juston fire with just excitement
about having a real honestconversation about taking things
important topics fromsoundbites to solutions.
(00:43):
So it was really incredible.
Dr. Roopan Gill (00:49):
So thank you for joining us, thank you so
much for having us and having mehere to represent the work and
also to share a lot.
Share a bit about ourexperience, so thank you.
I'm super excited, too, forthis conversation.
Shaman Isis (00:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just so.
Can you please share with ourlisteners what it is that you do
?
Dr. Roopan Gill (01:03):
Yeah, definitely.
So I am an OBGYN, so I do spend.
You know, I'm an OBGYN.
I'm a CEO as well of Vitala,co-founder with Dr Genevieve Tam
, who is who you met in New YorkCity, and we basically what
we've been on this mission to doat Vitala is really center the
(01:24):
user and the community, so thatwoman herself that is seeking
abortion care.
So we're specifically talkingabout abortion and we've really
been intentional about that toaddress one of the most
stigmatized issues in sexual andreproductive health, and work
in some of the most challengingcontexts in the world.
And basically what we do isco-create digital solutions with
women and girls and theircommunities to support them in
(01:48):
specifically, self-managingtheir own abortions,
personalized contraception,decision making, and we're also
doing some work in themiscarriage space and making
sure that they have the toolsand the information to do the
thing that they need to do fortheir health care in a way that
(02:08):
makes them feel empowered andnot stigmatized while they're
going through that process.
Shaman Isis (02:11):
Thank you for sharing that.
I was really excited.
I wanted you to be able tointroduce our topic.
I thought you'd do it moreelegantly than me, I can be a
bit of a jackhammer sometimes.
This is such an important topic.
I think we all know that afterRoe v Wade got a return to
America, you know it unleashed abit of chaos, but you know, I
(02:32):
always think chaos drives themost important things that need
to change to the surface, andthat's kind of what we're going
through with the post closures.
The world's really kind ofhaving a reckoning all over
about.
You know people wanting thingscertain ways and others wanting
it another, and you know we needthose sort of pain moments for
us to be able to finally levelup, if you will.
(02:53):
And so you guys are reallyleading the charge and having
this conversation so openly andgiving it grace and sincerity
and clarity and honesty, which Ithink it's lacking, because
that and we talked about thisbefore we started filming that
conversation is so fence postabout your perspective, on your
(03:16):
personal opinion about it thatso often, almost none of the
coverage ever talks about thepersonal journey, totally yeah.
So how did you get?
Can I ask how you?
How did you get here?
Dr. Roopan Gill (03:29):
to this place where you're leading.
Shaman Isis (03:31):
You're leading the way for women to be honored in
their their personal choicesthrough their journey.
Dr. Roopan Gill (03:38):
I love that question.
So we, like I mentioned, I'm anOBGYN but I did extra training
to become an abortion providermyself.
I still provide medical careand it's something that I'm very
passionate about and I thinkit's so important because I see
patients day in and day out.
I see women themselves and thenit helps me to think about ways
that we can improve thetechnology and I both of us, you
(04:05):
know, we did our residencytogether.
We're old friends.
That's where we met, like about12 years ago, and we're sort of
black sheep's in our programbecause we knew early in those
days like we want to dosomething in global health.
It kind of was like more aboutlike working in low middle
income countries, reallysupporting women and girls and
people in these settings, and welike kind of went our ways and
we're kind of figuring out likewhat, what is, how does that
(04:29):
look?
Because I, you know, to behonest, it's very challenging in
our day and age with OBGYNs.
Like there's not many like us,like Jen and I, who have that
are OBGYNs and then running ourown tech, not-for-profit, and
have done all these other things.
Most often it's like an OBGYNwho's working full-time
clinically and then adds alittle bit of this work to their
.
You know day-to-day work.
But Jen and I have been superintentional about that and I
(04:51):
worked for the World HealthOrganization.
I was with MSF on mission withthem.
I worked in Yemen and Nigeriaand it was like kind of through
these experiences of even Jenshe also worked for MSF it was
through these experiences ofseeing things at like the local,
grassroots level while alsoworking at sort of these higher
level you know policy with WHOand getting a little bit
(05:16):
frustrated with the dialoguearound localization and
centering the user and centeringwomen themselves into the
solutions we're building withthem, or well, it's like for
them.
But really I was getting veryfrustrated and saying, well,
actually, like if we want to dothis authentically,
intentionally, in an empoweringway, like we need to talk to the
(05:36):
women, we need to talk to thecommunities, we need to
co-create with them, and so withour personal experiences, we,
yeah, just got on to thismission.
To be honest, did I think thatwe would get to this point?
We're four years old now, wehad our anniversary yesterday,
(05:59):
congratulations and doing thethings we're doing and the
impact we're making.
But in the early days, when westarted getting an initial seed
grant to do the work inVenezuela.
So I think it's important tohighlight that too.
That's unique about us is thatwe started our work in a country
that has a complex humanitariancrisis, that has already a
(06:20):
legal context where it'sbasically illegal and only to
save a woman's life, and wewanted to show.
We were like, you know, with ourexperience, I had the
hypothesis I'm like we can dothis, we can show that this tech
, a digital solution, couldsupport people in a system where
the system is failing women andfor them to be able to do it
safely.
And so, in showing that, andthen, when the Dobbs decision
(06:44):
happened, it was like, okay, thetime is now we can bring this
solution and adapt it to the UScontext.
Did we think we were going tobe doing that?
No, but we had the foresightearly on that when we were
creating our mission statement,our vision statement, that we
want to create solutions forpeople that are living in the
most challenging contextglobally, regardless, you know.
(07:11):
And so, yeah, that's how we gothere.
I mean it's.
There's a lot of other littlenuances to our journey and our
story, but it really has beendriven by this deep fire and
passion to do this work, sincewe were trainees even before
that, even before we met.
Shaman Isis (07:24):
So yeah, it's.
It's interesting becausethere's this real moment going
on, particularly here in america, but I think it's global.
Not only do we have a massivereduction in population, uh, in
terms of new births going on inmost countries, I think it's
almost all of them, um, butpeople aren't getting married
either.
I mean, there's like kind of abattle lines have been drawn
(07:46):
between men and women and Ithink on a subtle level in
america that's being fueled bywomen getting to their, to their
like, their capacity for beingtold what to do, and the horror
stories that are coming outabout what's happening in some
of the states that have losttheir.
Excuse me, you guys, if you'vebeen watching my show for a
while, you know I cuss like asailor.
They're fucking minds.
(08:07):
Uh, they have, they've losttheir mind.
Some of these things likethere's and I just have to bring
this up because this fascinatesme about america so there's,
there's, I think it's arizonawhere they're trying to to pass
the most antiquated bill.
Yeah, um, that originates fromlike 1864 I want, want to say,
yes, the old, but the mostinteresting thing about this
bill that they want to pass,aside from the obvious, which is
(08:29):
that it's antiquated andbasically doesn't allow women
freedom over their own bodies isthe fact that it was originally
ushered through by a man whomarried three children, folks,
and so that's what they'rerevitalizing a law ushered by a
pedophile.
Anyway, yeah, so those kinds ofthings are kind of going on all
(08:50):
over America, but for the firsttime in my lifetime and I'm in
my 50s these conversations arehappening where people are
calling it out in ways I've justnever seen before.
In ways I've just never seenbefore what are your thoughts on
, kind of where we're at interms of history, and you know,
there's so much, we could go somany different ways of that
(09:12):
conversation.
But just off the top of yourhead, like, what do you think
about all the things that aregoing on?
Dr. Roopan Gill (09:16):
Yeah, you know it's so interesting.
When we started the work withVitella, we were going through a
phase where there was becausethere was a lot of changes
globally.
We were seeing actually a lotof positive movement, the whole
green wave I'm not sure ifyou've heard about this like
(09:37):
with the green wave movementthat basically has come from
Latin America, from Argentinaand then Colombia, we saw this
wave of feminism and activismand changes in the laws and
decriminalization.
I feel like this was a periodof time in the first couple of
years of VITALA, but then, sincethis DOPS, the DOPS decision
has happened and what we keep onseeing and I just actually
today saw a map that New YorkTimes showed of what's happening
(10:00):
as state by state is droppingin terms of their ban, as state
by state is dropping in terms oftheir ban, like they're like
dropping, like flies, in termsof more restrictive laws around
reproductive rights and abortionrights And-.
We try to maintain our hope.
We have to be hopeful in thistime, but it is also very scary,
I have to say.
(10:20):
I think the fact that somethinglike this can happen in Arizona
in this day and age is a bitscary.
That six-week ban has now beeninstated since yesterday.
Texas has been going throughits situation as it has been
(10:40):
going since even before theDobbs decision, and I think
that's also important tohighlight too, is that the Dobbs
decision is one thing, but Ifeel like the attack on women's
rights in the United States,especially around Black and
brown bodies, and that attack onus has been something that was
predating the Dobbs decision.
(11:01):
It's like there is this deep Imean it's history.
There's a deep historical,structural sort of violence and
trauma that is experienced bythe collective, and I feel like
the fact that we have that it'snot memories that just have
(11:22):
passed.
There is definitely stuff thatneeds to be resolved.
The other side of it, though,so there's sadness, but I think
what I'm feeling hopeful aboutis the youth.
To be honest, like that partfor me, like witnessing what
we're seeing now across the USwith all the campuses, you know,
(11:43):
not around abortion, but whatwe're seeing with Gaza, but in
the same vein, it is the.
These activists are like ourfuture, and they're kind of
taking the reins, and I see thatactually not just in the US.
I'm seeing this also in LatinAmerica.
I've seen it in the work I doat sub-Saharan Africa.
That's hopeful and I feel like,yeah, that's kind of where I'd
(12:04):
leave that.
Shaman Isis (12:05):
You know it's interesting.
I talk because I'm a spiritualteacher, an author.
I talk a lot about what peoplewould call woo, woo.
But a couple of years ago I'vereally felt a shift in the
collective.
But a couple of years ago Ireally felt a shift in last
(12:42):
breath of the patriarchy isclawing back any and everything
it can to try to control,because they know they're losing
control of women.
Women are choosing to opt outof dating, of having children,
of having families, of even youknow, it's just the whole thing,
(13:03):
because they've reached thispoint of of disgust and and, and
I think that's its own likependulum effect of what happens.
So I have a lot of hope thatthat we're entering this phase
where, you know, we're justseeing that like it's that last
gasp, dying breath, and sadlypeople have to get hurt.
Yes, these kinds of moments tohappen, but the when I look at
the younger generations, I don'tsee them tolerate.
(13:24):
They're not tolerating a lot no, they're not and they're hungry
for it too.
Dr. Roopan Gill (13:30):
they're hungry for, like the, the knowledge
and figuring out ways that theycan be active.
Yeah, and that's I like that.
Shaman Isis (13:39):
Yeah, one of the most interesting things about
all this I had a I do a live onX with Billy Dees and we were
talking about the collegecampuses and people are like
well, I don't understand what'swrong with them and it's like
how disconnected are the peoplein power.
They're the American dream andthis is just particularly for
Americaica, but I think it'sactually going on everywhere.
(13:59):
You're seeing it with the farmerprotests in france and in
germany and people the averageperson is standing up and going
enough and it's like thepolitics are a hot mess.
I mean, our politicians are allbought off by big corporations,
exactly.
It's so blatant in america nowthat and I know it's like that
in canada that it's almostfrightening that we've actually
gotten to this obvious of aplace.
(14:19):
The American ladder, I mean theAmerican dream, the ladder to
that has gone.
Housing is up 50%, food is up30 to 50%, and this is since the
pandemic, because thesecorporations are taking
advantage of this moment whenthe politicians are so obviously
easy to buy off and they can dowhatever they want, and it's
pushed our youth to this point.
(14:40):
I don't believe this isnecessarily I don't give me one.
I think it definitely isingrained in what they believe
is politically OK Not all ofthem, but for many of them.
But I don't think it would havegotten to this place if they
weren't scared for their future.
Dr. Roopan Gill (14:55):
Exactly, I agree with that, 100 percent
aren't scared for their future.
Exactly, I agree with that,100%.
Yeah, I'm also.
I was going to highlightsomething that you said about
the woo side, because I too, Ihave one other hat that I wear
which I try to incorporate inthe culture of Itala and that
and I also in our product,because I am also a breathwork
facilitator.
I do Kundalini yoga a lot.
(15:17):
I really believe in these kindsof things and the shift in the
consciousness globally andthat's why it probably keeps me
resilient and hopeful and wehaven't given up, even though
we're going through achallenging moment at Vytala.
At this moment too, because itis a challenging space to be
(15:38):
working in when you're doingabortion work and everything is
always you feel like it'sresistance, it's like you're
coming, you're facing resistanceall the time and I kind of feel
like because of all the otherwork I do and the practices I
have, and also just like myother identities that have also
had to face a lot of resistance,just as being a South Asian,
(16:03):
you know, woman of color andchallenges with your family,
like these all things areintersected.
But I really appreciate thatyou mentioned that, because I
really believe that we have tothink beyond just ourselves,
because there is so much moreout there in play.
Shaman Isis (16:20):
Yeah, we really have such an incredible impact
on each other.
So, for our listeners because Ithink for a lot of people they
hesitate to have thisconversation, they're scared to
have this conversation.
They don't want to getpolitical conversation.
They're scared to have thisconversation, they don't want to
(16:40):
get political what would besome advice for people in how
they can, you know, get morecomfortable with this
conversation and do perhaps tryto support better towards the
women's health?
Dr. Roopan Gill (16:53):
Yeah, I think it is difficult.
I think because it can getheightened and political, it can
get religious.
I mean there's can getheightened and political, it can
get religious.
I mean there's so many piecesto this conversation that can be
challenging.
But I will say from myexperience that what we think
versus like when you actuallyhave that interaction with
somebody, sometimes you can findthat there's a common ground,
(17:14):
right Like if I was sitting withyou and you and I were not on
the same page, just startingfrom a vantage point of getting
a sense of where people's valuesstand.
And I say this becausesomething that's very core to
how we do our work is that we doactually run these values
clarification and attitudetransformation workshops, and
that's how we get theconversation going.
(17:36):
When we're going intocommunities whether it's in the
U?
S or in Latin America, whereit's very challenging People
have fear, people have theirvalues, people are like don't
even want to talk about abortion, so we don't go in there being
like rah, rah, rah, abortion,abortion, abortion.
You kind of need to reach youraudience.
So what we've been doing isrunning these workshops where we
(17:56):
really it is a very like ahuman experience, because
everybody brings to table theirown values and attitudes based
on how they were brought up,their religious beliefs.
And these workshops are amazingbecause you run them for a day
you do usually do them for a dayand where people stand before
you start them and then wherethey stand afterwards, there's
(18:18):
always a shift for the vast vastmajority.
So we that I know you're askinglike just for a basic list, like
you know a person who's likewanting to have a conversation
with someone else around it, Iwould say to really try to, yeah
, find level set up a little bitright.
I think it's easier to come toa conversation where you can
(18:42):
understand where someone else'svalues stand first and then kind
of talk about the abortionconversation.
I also think it's important tocenter it around healthcare.
So often I think it gets sopoliticized.
Shaman Isis (18:55):
And that's all on purpose, because it's the fence
post they can hang on.
Exactly yeah distract them withtheir socioeconomic, religious
training, and then they won'tactually pay attention to the
fact that it's her fuckingchoice.
Dr. Roopan Gill (19:08):
Yes, it's her choice and also it's her health
care.
Exactly Like I take care ofpeople who, because I'm still a
provider there's people we takecare of through Ayacontigo, but
I'm an abortion provider here.
I provide surgical abortioncare in Toronto up to, you know,
25 weeks.
I have patients that are, it'slike, fetal anomalies,
miscarriages, it's you know,basically it doesn't matter why
(19:29):
a person needs the abortion, butit is healthcare.
It's like just like if I wereto deliver a baby as well, right
?
Or it's just like if I wasgoing to do laparoscopic surgery
for someone for a cyst.
Like this is where we need toget to in these conversations is
that providing abortion care ishealth care.
So, yeah, it's difficult,though I will say I mean it's.
(19:55):
It takes a lot of patience, ittakes a lot of grit.
Shaman Isis (19:59):
Yeah, you know the training, the one thing that I
became.
I had a spiritual awakening afew years back and and I had
always been spiritual and aseeker, but it was this one of
those powerhouse moments of liketime to get your shit together
and in the, the, the blindfoldreally got ripped off to the
systems and the power dynamicsthat are actually running most
(20:22):
everything, and it was thisalmost terrifying in a way,
because I had bought into somuch and we all do this.
This is how we end up inunhealthy thought habits that
create an unhealthy lifeexperience, because we only know
what we know and that's so hardfor us to understand because we
think of ourselves as beingthese independent thinkers.
We're just like, yeah, but yougot that thinking from somewhere
.
Yes, yeah, and, and, and and.
(20:47):
When I try to haveconversations with people about
a lot of these topics, I seethey get into that fence post
thing and it's like they can'thear and and we shouldn't be
having conversations that are,that are grounded in things that
aren't related to the healthcare and and that still
fascinates me that we're thatit's that that is actually
(21:08):
what's ruling this conversation,particularly here in america
that it's not actually about thehealth of the woman no, exactly
it's everything else around itand nothing about that person
and their health care and theirbody and their rights.
Dr. Roopan Gill (21:21):
But this is the thing like I feel.
I don't want it to sound sopessimistic, but I do believe
that women have been just set upto to fail Like.
I feel the system is created ina way that is not on the side of
women, like, if you think aboutit right, like it's not even
when I think about it, causeabortion is one piece, but like
(21:41):
I've also worked in Yemen andNigeria where I've taken care of
people who are, like in thisday and age, still child dying
and childbirth, not necessarilyrelated to unsafe abortions, but
just even other things that weshould.
We have the technology for herein North America, but people
are not dying.
So there's like this, yeah,there's this like dynamic.
I feel like that's put in placethat makes it very difficult
(22:03):
for women in general.
Shaman Isis (22:08):
And the system, starting with salary.
I mean like that.
I never thought into the 2000that we would be talking about
this in 2024.
But the fact that that peopledon't seem to and men don't
support this conversation, theywon't even have this
conversation, which I think isincredibly telling, guys.
Dr. Roopan Gill (22:22):
It's time to wake the fuck up.
Shaman Isis (22:24):
If women are making 20% less.
Basically it's 18%, but in someplaces it's higher, and this
isn't even outside of America.
It gets even worse.
How do people not understandthat that's setting women up for
failure, when most householdsin America A don't have savings,
but the households that do havesavings put less than 10% of it
away?
So how are women supposed like?
This is such an interestingconversation.
(22:45):
I think we're still incrediblydivorced from how unequal it is.
If we just bring it down tothat, we're not even talking
about healthcare the fact thatit takes women four times as
long to get diagnosed for thesame things as men.
Dr. Roopan Gill (22:57):
Exactly exactly, and that we don't have
even just the studies that areusually done on men and not as
much on women.
That's the big challenge wehave.
Even investment towards women'shealth related innovation is
less than 2% of funding.
That's going towards that.
Like there's so many layers ofthe system, so it's we could
(23:18):
talk about.
Like it can be very depressingto think about it, right, but
it's good to have the awarenessbecause that's what we're
fighting against, so that we canknow that.
But then continue to perseverebecause there's still success.
Success is happening.
We're still seeing movementright, like just recently with
the Arizona one.
I think it's being the.
(23:38):
The attempt is.
Attempt is to make it that sothat it doesn't happen.
I saw, you know, somebody on myteam just posted something
about that that we may not gothrough.
Shaman Isis (23:48):
Wow, yeah, god, you just said something that struck
me really powerfully.
Oh yeah, in terms of the, and Ithink that's the reason why the
fear-driven tactics areutilized in media and everywhere
else is to prevent actualconversation from happening,
because getting angry or upsetabout truth is the go-to to keep
(24:09):
us living in fear, which keepsus in this cycle of never
evolving.
Yes, and so being able toacknowledge these things but not
allow it to take from usenergetically and shift where
we're at in this conversation,it's those kinds of
conversations that show we'rechanging.
Yes, you know when I'mwhispering this in the back room
(24:32):
.
Anyway, such a fascinatingtopic, tell us about the app.
Dr. Roopan Gill (24:39):
Ah, yes, this is so interesting, yes, tell us
about the app.
Ah, yes, so this is sointeresting.
Yes, so Haya Contigo, so Hayawith you.
So it's in Spanish.
It's Spanish.
First.
It's an abortion doula,essentially virtual, that
provides end-to-endaccompaniment and support for
people to self-manage their ownabortion with pills.
We have a contraceptiondecision-making aspect to the
tool as well.
(25:00):
The app.
We co-created and launched itin Venezuela, but then now in
the US, it's available for all50 states.
What's, I think, unique at theheart and soul of our app?
Because it is truly like yourbest friend in your pocket that
is there with you, guiding youthrough the process, empowering
you and providing you not onlypsycho-emotional support, but
navigational support through avirtual chat that we have
(25:23):
embedded within the app, or youcan access it through WhatsApp.
And it's with real-time support, with real people who are
speaking your language, eitherif it's English or Spanish, and
they're for you through theentire journey.
And we have these counselorsavailable 12 hours a day, seven
days a week.
We're hoping that we canincrease that to 24 hours a day,
but it really is our secretsauce because, honestly, like
(25:46):
when I people ask me about it,they ask me how you guys are
different.
I really believe, like the, the, the, the fact that we have
that, that chat, and the modelof care, and how our our doulas,
like the virtual doulas, aretalking to our users, along with
the app, with providing theinformation in a very
personalized, empowering way,and then how we embed it within
(26:08):
the community and working veryclosely with local communities
and local folks.
So, yeah, and so that's what wedo.
We provide people with theaccess, in the most restrictive
places, to self-manage theirabortions through our virtual
abortion doula.
Shaman Isis (26:24):
Wow, I think that's so incredible.
I would have loved to have hadthat.
You know I shared in the whenVitala presented that I had a.
You've heard these storiesbefore.
I had a miscarriage when I waslike six months pregnant, or
maybe a little bit further along, and my foster mother at the
(26:45):
time leaned over my bed at thehospital to tell me that it was
Satan's way of punishing me forhaving had premarital sex and it
was this thing.
And then I was mid like it was.
It was a very ugly moment butshe wasn't able to have children
, which I think had drove a lotof what she said the nurses in
(27:10):
that room.
Dr. Roopan Gill (27:11):
It was the first time in my that I had seen
people kind of really stand upfor me they stood back for a
second and they were like, howcould you say that?
Shaman Isis (27:15):
oh, they actually kicked out of the room and I was
like and so I there's a there'sa soft place in my heart for
people in the medical communitywho support women's health and
understand how important thosemoments are, that they be
beautiful and that theexperience be empowering.
You know, I think, a lot ofpeople.
I just did a feature for thoseof you who know about Soul Tech
(27:38):
Magazine.
The second issue just came out,the goddess issue of Soul Tech
Magazine and I did an interviewwith Dr Gill and I uh, and I
love that photo, by the way,it's amazing and I know that I,
um, it might if you read italready.
You know Celtic magazine is aconscious living magazine.
It has a lot about spiritualityin it and I know I've had some
(27:59):
people go you're, you're, you'retouching on something that's.
That's about, like that topicof abortion in a spiritual
magazine and I was like you'reconfusing religion with
spirituality.
Spirituality is aboutself-actualization and getting
into mind, body and soul harmonyand becoming the best version
of yourself.
It has nothing to do with witha woman's right to choose how
(28:20):
she handles her family planning.
Dr. Roopan Gill (28:22):
You know, that's about religion.
Shaman Isis (28:24):
What do you, what do you think about that?
Did it occur to you when Iasked you if you would interview
for that?
Dr. Roopan Gill (28:37):
Were you, like this is kind of interesting.
Well, um, yes and no, because Iam so like, I am so spiritual,
like spiritually minded and I'mso into these things as well,
like around the wellnesspractices that I do, um, and
especially like kundalini, Imean that is a very deep
practice.
So I actually loved it when,when we heard about the work
you're doing and that you wantedto do that, have that
conversation, because I myselfhave been thinking and
(28:57):
reflecting and I've had coachingsessions around this too, and
how to be a bridge of theseworlds, and I think we need more
people like us, like you, likeme, that are working in sort of
this space where people thinkit's very esoteric and the
spiritual and more ancestral,but also bringing in the
evidence-based and the scienceand the rationale, because I
(29:18):
think we need them both, but toconnect them we need bridges,
and the bridges are like peoplelike us.
So I feel, for me, it wasamazing to be able to say yes,
because that is what also guidesme so deeply, like whenever I
reflect on, like what is it thatkeeps me so motivated or like
inspired to continue doing thiswork is because it is a
(29:40):
reflection and a mirror of myspirituality.
I feel, though the comingtogether with my team, the
empowering is because it's alsothe team I'm empowering, it's
the, it's the women, theself-actualization to really
like it is an act, it's aspiritual practice, like that's.
That's what I was saying to myteam.
Often, too, I say like runningan organization feels like a
always an act, a spiritualpractice, but I feel like even
(30:03):
the intimacy and the care thatwe're providing for people in
some of these most intimatemoments is also like an act of
spirituality.
You know, it's so raw and humanand I feel very like, yeah,
it's all connected, it's allinterconnected.
Shaman Isis (30:24):
It really is of the way you put that together so
beautifully, is that the youngergenerations and the women of
the future who will be runningthis world need women who are
saying straighten your crown up,girl.
This is your existence, yourexperience and you are in
complete command of it.
And like really empowering themand allowing them to see what
(30:46):
spiritual practices are reallyabout and removing them.
You know, you can be.
I don't mind people beingreligious, I don't have a
problem with it, I just I for me, those are separate.
That's a separate thing.
Yeah, and being able to givewomen space because we will be
running the world, yes, yes, wewill.
(31:07):
You know, I think we kind ofalready are.
We're just accepting that.
Anyway, if people wanted tolearn more about your company
and find out more about IAC youpronounce IAC so much better
than me.
You must speak Spanish.
Dr. Roopan Gill (31:20):
I do yes.
Yeah, I started learning likewhen I was starting the
organization, but my fiance isfrom Spain, so that also helps.
Shaman Isis (31:31):
So people wanted to , you guys Totally so.
Dr. Roopan Gill (31:34):
Aya Contigo.
If you're in the US, like I, wereally want as many people to
like know about it.
Tell your friends.
Like you know, you can downloadAya Contigo app on the Apple
Store, google Play Store.
It's a web app, so you can alsoaccess it through like a web
link um as well.
So if you go to our website,holaholaayacontigocom, you'll be
(32:00):
able to access our website.
And then going to our website,vitala Global and find us on
LinkedIn, find us on Instagram.
Um, yeah, I mean, I wanteverybody to know about it and
share about it.
And also another thing I'll addto this is like people should
also know that they can getabortion pills in all 50 states.
So we're partnered with a lotof amazing organizations, so I
(32:22):
want to shout that out too,because I think there's so much
misinformation.
But you can still get throughonline pharmacies all 50 states.
You can get abortion pills.
Plan C pills is amazing.
For information, I need an Aeven M&A hotline.
Some of these key resources canbe really supportive Aid,
access and for folks to justeven know that they can do
(32:43):
advanced provision of like buypills and keep them in their
cupboard, because you never knowand you can do that.
Shaman Isis (32:49):
Yeah, I love that.
So that was well said.
Um, before we go, I'll tell yousomething that I saw that was
on I think it was on uh x or uhor twitter, and it was this far,
you know, and I, I'm I'm inmiddle of the road, I'm a middle
person, I'm I'm neitherdemocrat nor republican, but I
it was one of the people who'sreally pushed the abortion
(33:10):
restrictions in the country andshe was like are these
politicians in those postswithout thinking about it?
She's like you know that thegovernment is out of control
when they start telling you how,what oven to choose.
Oh my god, somebody responded,and they were like and aren't
you the one telling women whatto do with their?
Dr. Roopan Gill (33:28):
bodies.
That's so funny.
Shaman Isis (33:33):
I love that oh my God, it was so, it was just so
perfect and it was like you knowget, get out of women's
healthcare decisions, it'senough.
Dr. Roopan Gill (33:43):
Totally I agree.
Shaman Isis (33:44):
It's been such a pleasure to get a chance to
speak to you.
Hopefully, I'll get a chance tomeet you if you come to New
York or I'm in Canada.
Dr. Roopan Gill (33:51):
Yes, definitely.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Really enjoyed thisconversation.
Shaman Isis (33:56):
Thank you, you guys .
If you're not alreadysubscribed to Citizen Journalist
, what are you thinking?
I mean, we were just featuredin People and Entertainment
Weekly and a bunch of otherplaces, so you know you get on
it and subscribe to support theconversation.
That takes, you know, importanttopics from soundbites to
solutions.
And if you haven't checked outmy book, I'd grab a copy of it.
(34:18):
It's too far away from me.
If you haven't grabbed a copyof Memory Mansion, which shares
my journey from Tennesseeorphanage to the red carpets of
New York City fashion, todepression and being very
overweight, to happiness, thenplease go check out memory
mansion, because you guys helpedmake it a number one.
So please do that.
And if you haven't alreadyreviewed it, please do that as
(34:38):
well.
Anyway, you guys can follow meon social media.
I'm at shaman ISIS or at shamanISIS official, just about
everywhere, and you can find outmore about the show and all the
work that I do atshamanicistcom.
Anyway, you guys have abeautiful week and thank you
again, my dear.
Dr. Roopan Gill (34:53):
Thank you, thank you so much, bye, bye, you
guys, bye.
Hey you guys and welcome to Citizen Journalist.
I'm your host, shaman Isis, andI have a really fascinating
guest today and we're going tobe talking about a super
important topic.
Dr Rupan Gill, thank you somuch for joining us for our
episode today.
I'm jacked to talk to you aboutVitala Global and Aya Contigo.
Am I pronouncing it correct?
Dr. Roopan Gill (00:21):
Yes, Totally yes.
Shaman Isis (00:22):
Yeah, and the mission of the work that you do.
Just for the listeners to know,I had the chance to hear Vitala
Global speak at an event in NewYork City recently and it was
so empowering.
The women in the room were juston fire with just excitement
about having a real honestconversation about taking things
important topics fromsoundbites to solutions.
(00:43):
So it was really incredible.
Dr. Roopan Gill (00:49):
So thank you for joining us, thank you so
much for having us and having mehere to represent the work and
also to share a lot.
Share a bit about ourexperience, so thank you.
I'm super excited, too, forthis conversation.
Shaman Isis (00:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just so.
Can you please share with ourlisteners what it is that you do
?
Dr. Roopan Gill (01:03):
Yeah, definitely.
So I am an OBGYN, so I do spend.
You know, I'm an OBGYN.
I'm a CEO as well of Vitala,co-founder with Dr Genevieve Tam
, who is who you met in New YorkCity, and we basically what
we've been on this mission to doat Vitala is really center the
(01:24):
user and the community, so thatwoman herself that is seeking
abortion care.
So we're specifically talkingabout abortion and we've really
been intentional about that toaddress one of the most
stigmatized issues in sexual andreproductive health, and work
in some of the most challengingcontexts in the world.
And basically what we do isco-create digital solutions with
women and girls and theircommunities to support them in
(01:48):
specifically, self-managingtheir own abortions,
personalized contraception,decision making, and we're also
doing some work in themiscarriage space and making
sure that they have the toolsand the information to do the
thing that they need to do fortheir health care in a way that
(02:08):
makes them feel empowered andnot stigmatized while they're
going through that process.
Shaman Isis (02:11):
Thank you for sharing that.
I was really excited.
I wanted you to be able tointroduce our topic.
I thought you'd do it moreelegantly than me, I can be a
bit of a jackhammer sometimes.
This is such an important topic.
I think we all know that afterRoe v Wade got a return to
America, you know it unleashed abit of chaos, but you know, I
(02:32):
always think chaos drives themost important things that need
to change to the surface, andthat's kind of what we're going
through with the post closures.
The world's really kind ofhaving a reckoning all over
about.
You know people wanting thingscertain ways and others wanting
it another, and you know we needthose sort of pain moments for
us to be able to finally levelup, if you will.
(02:53):
And so you guys are reallyleading the charge and having
this conversation so openly andgiving it grace and sincerity
and clarity and honesty, which Ithink it's lacking, because
that and we talked about thisbefore we started filming that
conversation is so fence postabout your perspective, on your
(03:16):
personal opinion about it thatso often, almost none of the
coverage ever talks about thepersonal journey, totally yeah.
So how did you get?
Can I ask how you?
How did you get here?
Dr. Roopan Gill (03:29):
to this place where you're leading.
Shaman Isis (03:31):
You're leading the way for women to be honored in
their their personal choicesthrough their journey.
Dr. Roopan Gill (03:38):
I love that question.
So we, like I mentioned, I'm anOBGYN but I did extra training
to become an abortion providermyself.
I still provide medical careand it's something that I'm very
passionate about and I thinkit's so important because I see
patients day in and day out.
I see women themselves and thenit helps me to think about ways
that we can improve thetechnology and I both of us, you
(04:05):
know, we did our residencytogether.
We're old friends.
That's where we met, like about12 years ago, and we're sort of
black sheep's in our programbecause we knew early in those
days like we want to dosomething in global health.
It kind of was like more aboutlike working in low middle
income countries, reallysupporting women and girls and
people in these settings, and welike kind of went our ways and
we're kind of figuring out likewhat, what is, how does that
(04:29):
look?
Because I, you know, to behonest, it's very challenging in
our day and age with OBGYNs.
Like there's not many like us,like Jen and I, who have that
are OBGYNs and then running ourown tech, not-for-profit, and
have done all these other things.
Most often it's like an OBGYNwho's working full-time
clinically and then adds alittle bit of this work to their
.
You know day-to-day work.
But Jen and I have been superintentional about that and I
(04:51):
worked for the World HealthOrganization.
I was with MSF on mission withthem.
I worked in Yemen and Nigeriaand it was like kind of through
these experiences of even Jenshe also worked for MSF it was
through these experiences ofseeing things at like the local,
grassroots level while alsoworking at sort of these higher
level you know policy with WHOand getting a little bit
(05:16):
frustrated with the dialoguearound localization and
centering the user and centeringwomen themselves into the
solutions we're building withthem, or well, it's like for
them.
But really I was getting veryfrustrated and saying, well,
actually, like if we want to dothis authentically,
intentionally, in an empoweringway, like we need to talk to the
(05:36):
women, we need to talk to thecommunities, we need to
co-create with them, and so withour personal experiences, we,
yeah, just got on to thismission.
To be honest, did I think thatwe would get to this point?
We're four years old now, wehad our anniversary yesterday,
(05:59):
congratulations and doing thethings we're doing and the
impact we're making.
But in the early days, when westarted getting an initial seed
grant to do the work inVenezuela.
So I think it's important tohighlight that too.
That's unique about us is thatwe started our work in a country
that has a complex humanitariancrisis, that has already a
(06:20):
legal context where it'sbasically illegal and only to
save a woman's life, and wewanted to show.
We were like, you know, with ourexperience, I had the
hypothesis I'm like we can dothis, we can show that this tech
, a digital solution, couldsupport people in a system where
the system is failing women andfor them to be able to do it
safely.
And so, in showing that, andthen, when the Dobbs decision
(06:44):
happened, it was like, okay, thetime is now we can bring this
solution and adapt it to the UScontext.
Did we think we were going tobe doing that?
No, but we had the foresightearly on that when we were
creating our mission statement,our vision statement, that we
want to create solutions forpeople that are living in the
most challenging contextglobally, regardless, you know.
(07:11):
And so, yeah, that's how we gothere.
I mean it's.
There's a lot of other littlenuances to our journey and our
story, but it really has beendriven by this deep fire and
passion to do this work, sincewe were trainees even before
that, even before we met.
Shaman Isis (07:24):
So yeah, it's.
It's interesting becausethere's this real moment going
on, particularly here in america, but I think it's global.
Not only do we have a massivereduction in population, uh, in
terms of new births going on inmost countries, I think it's
almost all of them, um, butpeople aren't getting married
either.
I mean, there's like kind of abattle lines have been drawn
(07:46):
between men and women and Ithink on a subtle level in
america that's being fueled bywomen getting to their, to their
like, their capacity for beingtold what to do, and the horror
stories that are coming outabout what's happening in some
of the states that have losttheir.
Excuse me, you guys, if you'vebeen watching my show for a
while, you know I cuss like asailor.
They're fucking minds.
(08:07):
Uh, they have, they've losttheir mind.
Some of these things likethere's and I just have to bring
this up because this fascinatesme about america so there's,
there's, I think it's arizonawhere they're trying to to pass
the most antiquated bill.
Yeah, um, that originates fromlike 1864 I want, want to say,
yes, the old, but the mostinteresting thing about this
bill that they want to pass,aside from the obvious, which is
(08:29):
that it's antiquated andbasically doesn't allow women
freedom over their own bodies isthe fact that it was originally
ushered through by a man whomarried three children, folks,
and so that's what they'rerevitalizing a law ushered by a
pedophile.
Anyway, yeah, so those kinds ofthings are kind of going on all
(08:50):
over America, but for the firsttime in my lifetime and I'm in
my 50s these conversations arehappening where people are
calling it out in ways I've justnever seen before.
In ways I've just never seenbefore what are your thoughts on
, kind of where we're at interms of history, and you know,
there's so much, we could go somany different ways of that
(09:12):
conversation.
But just off the top of yourhead, like, what do you think
about all the things that aregoing on?
Dr. Roopan Gill (09:16):
Yeah, you know it's so interesting.
When we started the work withVitella, we were going through a
phase where there was becausethere was a lot of changes
globally.
We were seeing actually a lotof positive movement, the whole
green wave I'm not sure ifyou've heard about this like
(09:37):
with the green wave movementthat basically has come from
Latin America, from Argentinaand then Colombia, we saw this
wave of feminism and activismand changes in the laws and
decriminalization.
I feel like this was a periodof time in the first couple of
years of VITALA, but then, sincethis DOPS, the DOPS decision
has happened and what we keep onseeing and I just actually
today saw a map that New YorkTimes showed of what's happening
(10:00):
as state by state is droppingin terms of their ban, as state
by state is dropping in terms oftheir ban, like they're like
dropping, like flies, in termsof more restrictive laws around
reproductive rights and abortionrights And-.
We try to maintain our hope.
We have to be hopeful in thistime, but it is also very scary,
I have to say.
(10:20):
I think the fact that somethinglike this can happen in Arizona
in this day and age is a bitscary.
That six-week ban has now beeninstated since yesterday.
Texas has been going throughits situation as it has been
(10:40):
going since even before theDobbs decision, and I think
that's also important tohighlight too, is that the Dobbs
decision is one thing, but Ifeel like the attack on women's
rights in the United States,especially around Black and
brown bodies, and that attack onus has been something that was
predating the Dobbs decision.
(11:01):
It's like there is this deep Imean it's history.
There's a deep historical,structural sort of violence and
trauma that is experienced bythe collective, and I feel like
the fact that we have that it'snot memories that just have
(11:22):
passed.
There is definitely stuff thatneeds to be resolved.
The other side of it, though,so there's sadness, but I think
what I'm feeling hopeful aboutis the youth.
To be honest, like that partfor me, like witnessing what
we're seeing now across the USwith all the campuses, you know,
(11:43):
not around abortion, but whatwe're seeing with Gaza, but in
the same vein, it is the.
These activists are like ourfuture, and they're kind of
taking the reins, and I see thatactually not just in the US.
I'm seeing this also in LatinAmerica.
I've seen it in the work I doat sub-Saharan Africa.
That's hopeful and I feel like,yeah, that's kind of where I'd
(12:04):
leave that.
Shaman Isis (12:05):
You know it's interesting.
I talk because I'm a spiritualteacher, an author.
I talk a lot about what peoplewould call woo, woo.
But a couple of years ago I'vereally felt a shift in the
collective.
But a couple of years ago Ireally felt a shift in last
(12:42):
breath of the patriarchy isclawing back any and everything
it can to try to control,because they know they're losing
control of women.
Women are choosing to opt outof dating, of having children,
of having families, of even youknow, it's just the whole thing,
(13:03):
because they've reached thispoint of of disgust and and, and
I think that's its own likependulum effect of what happens.
So I have a lot of hope thatthat we're entering this phase
where, you know, we're justseeing that like it's that last
gasp, dying breath, and sadlypeople have to get hurt.
Yes, these kinds of moments tohappen, but the when I look at
the younger generations, I don'tsee them tolerate.
(13:24):
They're not tolerating a lot no, they're not and they're hungry
for it too.
Dr. Roopan Gill (13:30):
they're hungry for, like the, the knowledge
and figuring out ways that theycan be active.
Yeah, and that's I like that.
Shaman Isis (13:39):
Yeah, one of the most interesting things about
all this I had a I do a live onX with Billy Dees and we were
talking about the collegecampuses and people are like
well, I don't understand what'swrong with them and it's like
how disconnected are the peoplein power.
They're the American dream andthis is just particularly for
Americaica, but I think it'sactually going on everywhere.
(13:59):
You're seeing it with the farmerprotests in france and in
germany and people the averageperson is standing up and going
enough and it's like thepolitics are a hot mess.
I mean, our politicians are allbought off by big corporations,
exactly.
It's so blatant in america nowthat and I know it's like that
in canada that it's almostfrightening that we've actually
gotten to this obvious of aplace.
(14:19):
The American ladder, I mean theAmerican dream, the ladder to
that has gone.
Housing is up 50%, food is up30 to 50%, and this is since the
pandemic, because thesecorporations are taking
advantage of this moment whenthe politicians are so obviously
easy to buy off and they can dowhatever they want, and it's
pushed our youth to this point.
(14:40):
I don't believe this isnecessarily I don't give me one.
I think it definitely isingrained in what they believe
is politically OK Not all ofthem, but for many of them.
But I don't think it would havegotten to this place if they
weren't scared for their future.
Dr. Roopan Gill (14:55):
Exactly, I agree with that, 100 percent
aren't scared for their future.
Exactly, I agree with that,100%.
Yeah, I'm also.
I was going to highlightsomething that you said about
the woo side, because I too, Ihave one other hat that I wear
which I try to incorporate inthe culture of Itala and that
and I also in our product,because I am also a breathwork
facilitator.
I do Kundalini yoga a lot.
(15:17):
I really believe in these kindsof things and the shift in the
consciousness globally andthat's why it probably keeps me
resilient and hopeful and wehaven't given up, even though
we're going through achallenging moment at Vytala.
At this moment too, because itis a challenging space to be
(15:38):
working in when you're doingabortion work and everything is
always you feel like it'sresistance, it's like you're
coming, you're facing resistanceall the time and I kind of feel
like because of all the otherwork I do and the practices I
have, and also just like myother identities that have also
had to face a lot of resistance,just as being a South Asian,
(16:03):
you know, woman of color andchallenges with your family,
like these all things areintersected.
But I really appreciate thatyou mentioned that, because I
really believe that we have tothink beyond just ourselves,
because there is so much moreout there in play.
Shaman Isis (16:20):
Yeah, we really have such an incredible impact
on each other.
So, for our listeners because Ithink for a lot of people they
hesitate to have thisconversation, they're scared to
have this conversation.
They don't want to getpolitical conversation.
They're scared to have thisconversation, they don't want to
(16:40):
get political what would besome advice for people in how
they can, you know, get morecomfortable with this
conversation and do perhaps tryto support better towards the
women's health?
Dr. Roopan Gill (16:53):
Yeah, I think it is difficult.
I think because it can getheightened and political, it can
get religious.
I mean there's can getheightened and political, it can
get religious.
I mean there's so many piecesto this conversation that can be
challenging.
But I will say from myexperience that what we think
versus like when you actuallyhave that interaction with
somebody, sometimes you can findthat there's a common ground,
(17:14):
right Like if I was sitting withyou and you and I were not on
the same page, just startingfrom a vantage point of getting
a sense of where people's valuesstand.
And I say this becausesomething that's very core to
how we do our work is that we doactually run these values
clarification and attitudetransformation workshops, and
that's how we get theconversation going.
(17:36):
When we're going intocommunities whether it's in the
U?
S or in Latin America, whereit's very challenging People
have fear, people have theirvalues, people are like don't
even want to talk about abortion, so we don't go in there being
like rah, rah, rah, abortion,abortion, abortion.
You kind of need to reach youraudience.
So what we've been doing isrunning these workshops where we
(17:56):
really it is a very like ahuman experience, because
everybody brings to table theirown values and attitudes based
on how they were brought up,their religious beliefs.
And these workshops are amazingbecause you run them for a day
you do usually do them for a dayand where people stand before
you start them and then wherethey stand afterwards, there's
(18:18):
always a shift for the vast vastmajority.
So we that I know you're askinglike just for a basic list, like
you know a person who's likewanting to have a conversation
with someone else around it, Iwould say to really try to, yeah
, find level set up a little bitright.
I think it's easier to come toa conversation where you can
(18:42):
understand where someone else'svalues stand first and then kind
of talk about the abortionconversation.
I also think it's important tocenter it around healthcare.
So often I think it gets sopoliticized.
Shaman Isis (18:55):
And that's all on purpose, because it's the fence
post they can hang on.
Exactly yeah distract them withtheir socioeconomic, religious
training, and then they won'tactually pay attention to the
fact that it's her fuckingchoice.
Dr. Roopan Gill (19:08):
Yes, it's her choice and also it's her health
care.
Exactly Like I take care ofpeople who, because I'm still a
provider there's people we takecare of through Ayacontigo, but
I'm an abortion provider here.
I provide surgical abortioncare in Toronto up to, you know,
25 weeks.
I have patients that are, it'slike, fetal anomalies,
miscarriages, it's you know,basically it doesn't matter why
(19:29):
a person needs the abortion, butit is healthcare.
It's like just like if I wereto deliver a baby as well, right
?
Or it's just like if I wasgoing to do laparoscopic surgery
for someone for a cyst.
Like this is where we need toget to in these conversations is
that providing abortion care ishealth care.
So, yeah, it's difficult,though I will say I mean it's.
(19:55):
It takes a lot of patience, ittakes a lot of grit.
Shaman Isis (19:59):
Yeah, you know the training, the one thing that I
became.
I had a spiritual awakening afew years back and and I had
always been spiritual and aseeker, but it was this one of
those powerhouse moments of liketime to get your shit together
and in the, the, the blindfoldreally got ripped off to the
systems and the power dynamicsthat are actually running most
(20:22):
everything, and it was thisalmost terrifying in a way,
because I had bought into somuch and we all do this.
This is how we end up inunhealthy thought habits that
create an unhealthy lifeexperience, because we only know
what we know and that's so hardfor us to understand because we
think of ourselves as beingthese independent thinkers.
We're just like, yeah, but yougot that thinking from somewhere
.
Yes, yeah, and, and, and and.
(20:47):
When I try to haveconversations with people about
a lot of these topics, I seethey get into that fence post
thing and it's like they can'thear and and we shouldn't be
having conversations that are,that are grounded in things that
aren't related to the healthcare and and that still
fascinates me that we're thatit's that that is actually
(21:08):
what's ruling this conversation,particularly here in america
that it's not actually about thehealth of the woman no, exactly
it's everything else around itand nothing about that person
and their health care and theirbody and their rights.
Dr. Roopan Gill (21:21):
But this is the thing like I feel.
I don't want it to sound sopessimistic, but I do believe
that women have been just set upto to fail Like.
I feel the system is created ina way that is not on the side of
women, like, if you think aboutit right, like it's not even
when I think about it, causeabortion is one piece, but like
(21:41):
I've also worked in Yemen andNigeria where I've taken care of
people who are, like in thisday and age, still child dying
and childbirth, not necessarilyrelated to unsafe abortions, but
just even other things that weshould.
We have the technology for herein North America, but people
are not dying.
So there's like this, yeah,there's this like dynamic.
I feel like that's put in placethat makes it very difficult
(22:03):
for women in general.
Shaman Isis (22:08):
And the system, starting with salary.
I mean like that.
I never thought into the 2000that we would be talking about
this in 2024.
But the fact that that peopledon't seem to and men don't
support this conversation, theywon't even have this
conversation, which I think isincredibly telling, guys.
Dr. Roopan Gill (22:22):
It's time to wake the fuck up.
Shaman Isis (22:24):
If women are making 20% less.
Basically it's 18%, but in someplaces it's higher, and this
isn't even outside of America.
It gets even worse.
How do people not understandthat that's setting women up for
failure, when most householdsin America A don't have savings,
but the households that do havesavings put less than 10% of it
away?
So how are women supposed like?
This is such an interestingconversation.
(22:45):
I think we're still incrediblydivorced from how unequal it is.
If we just bring it down tothat, we're not even talking
about healthcare the fact thatit takes women four times as
long to get diagnosed for thesame things as men.
Dr. Roopan Gill (22:57):
Exactly exactly, and that we don't have
even just the studies that areusually done on men and not as
much on women.
That's the big challenge wehave.
Even investment towards women'shealth related innovation is
less than 2% of funding.
That's going towards that.
Like there's so many layers ofthe system, so it's we could
(23:18):
talk about.
Like it can be very depressingto think about it, right, but
it's good to have the awarenessbecause that's what we're
fighting against, so that we canknow that.
But then continue to perseverebecause there's still success.
Success is happening.
We're still seeing movementright, like just recently with
the Arizona one.
I think it's being the.
(23:38):
The attempt is.
Attempt is to make it that sothat it doesn't happen.
I saw, you know, somebody on myteam just posted something
about that that we may not gothrough.
Shaman Isis (23:48):
Wow, yeah, god, you just said something that struck
me really powerfully.
Oh yeah, in terms of the, and Ithink that's the reason why the
fear-driven tactics areutilized in media and everywhere
else is to prevent actualconversation from happening,
because getting angry or upsetabout truth is the go-to to keep
(24:09):
us living in fear, which keepsus in this cycle of never
evolving.
Yes, and so being able toacknowledge these things but not
allow it to take from usenergetically and shift where
we're at in this conversation,it's those kinds of
conversations that show we'rechanging.
Yes, you know when I'mwhispering this in the back room
(24:32):
.
Anyway, such a fascinatingtopic, tell us about the app.
Dr. Roopan Gill (24:39):
Ah, yes, this is so interesting, yes, tell us
about the app.
Ah, yes, so this is sointeresting.
Yes, so Haya Contigo, so Hayawith you.
So it's in Spanish.
It's Spanish.
First.
It's an abortion doula,essentially virtual, that
provides end-to-endaccompaniment and support for
people to self-manage their ownabortion with pills.
We have a contraceptiondecision-making aspect to the
tool as well.
(25:00):
The app.
We co-created and launched itin Venezuela, but then now in
the US, it's available for all50 states.
What's, I think, unique at theheart and soul of our app?
Because it is truly like yourbest friend in your pocket that
is there with you, guiding youthrough the process, empowering
you and providing you not onlypsycho-emotional support, but
navigational support through avirtual chat that we have
(25:23):
embedded within the app, or youcan access it through WhatsApp.
And it's with real-time support, with real people who are
speaking your language, eitherif it's English or Spanish, and
they're for you through theentire journey.
And we have these counselorsavailable 12 hours a day, seven
days a week.
We're hoping that we canincrease that to 24 hours a day,
but it really is our secretsauce because, honestly, like
(25:46):
when I people ask me about it,they ask me how you guys are
different.
I really believe, like the, the, the, the fact that we have
that, that chat, and the modelof care, and how our our doulas,
like the virtual doulas, aretalking to our users, along with
the app, with providing theinformation in a very
personalized, empowering way,and then how we embed it within
(26:08):
the community and working veryclosely with local communities
and local folks.
So, yeah, and so that's what wedo.
We provide people with theaccess, in the most restrictive
places, to self-manage theirabortions through our virtual
abortion doula.
Shaman Isis (26:24):
Wow, I think that's so incredible.
I would have loved to have hadthat.
You know I shared in the whenVitala presented that I had a.
You've heard these storiesbefore.
I had a miscarriage when I waslike six months pregnant, or
maybe a little bit further along, and my foster mother at the
(26:45):
time leaned over my bed at thehospital to tell me that it was
Satan's way of punishing me forhaving had premarital sex and it
was this thing.
And then I was mid like it was.
It was a very ugly moment butshe wasn't able to have children
, which I think had drove a lotof what she said the nurses in
(27:10):
that room.
Dr. Roopan Gill (27:11):
It was the first time in my that I had seen
people kind of really stand upfor me they stood back for a
second and they were like, howcould you say that?
Shaman Isis (27:15):
oh, they actually kicked out of the room and I was
like and so I there's a there'sa soft place in my heart for
people in the medical communitywho support women's health and
understand how important thosemoments are, that they be
beautiful and that theexperience be empowering.
You know, I think, a lot ofpeople.
I just did a feature for thoseof you who know about Soul Tech
(27:38):
Magazine.
The second issue just came out,the goddess issue of Soul Tech
Magazine and I did an interviewwith Dr Gill and I uh, and I
love that photo, by the way,it's amazing and I know that I,
um, it might if you read italready.
You know Celtic magazine is aconscious living magazine.
It has a lot about spiritualityin it and I know I've had some
(27:59):
people go you're, you're, you'retouching on something that's.
That's about, like that topicof abortion in a spiritual
magazine and I was like you'reconfusing religion with
spirituality.
Spirituality is aboutself-actualization and getting
into mind, body and soul harmonyand becoming the best version
of yourself.
It has nothing to do with witha woman's right to choose how
(28:20):
she handles her family planning.
Dr. Roopan Gill (28:22):
You know, that's about religion.
Shaman Isis (28:24):
What do you, what do you think about that?
Did it occur to you when Iasked you if you would interview
for that?
Dr. Roopan Gill (28:37):
Were you, like this is kind of interesting.
Well, um, yes and no, because Iam so like, I am so spiritual,
like spiritually minded and I'mso into these things as well,
like around the wellnesspractices that I do, um, and
especially like kundalini, Imean that is a very deep
practice.
So I actually loved it when,when we heard about the work
you're doing and that you wantedto do that, have that
conversation, because I myselfhave been thinking and
(28:57):
reflecting and I've had coachingsessions around this too, and
how to be a bridge of theseworlds, and I think we need more
people like us, like you, likeme, that are working in sort of
this space where people thinkit's very esoteric and the
spiritual and more ancestral,but also bringing in the
evidence-based and the scienceand the rationale, because I
(29:18):
think we need them both, but toconnect them we need bridges,
and the bridges are like peoplelike us.
So I feel, for me, it wasamazing to be able to say yes,
because that is what also guidesme so deeply, like whenever I
reflect on, like what is it thatkeeps me so motivated or like
inspired to continue doing thiswork is because it is a
(29:40):
reflection and a mirror of myspirituality.
I feel, though the comingtogether with my team, the
empowering is because it's alsothe team I'm empowering, it's
the, it's the women, theself-actualization to really
like it is an act, it's aspiritual practice, like that's.
That's what I was saying to myteam.
Often, too, I say like runningan organization feels like a
always an act, a spiritualpractice, but I feel like even
(30:03):
the intimacy and the care thatwe're providing for people in
some of these most intimatemoments is also like an act of
spirituality.
You know, it's so raw and humanand I feel very like, yeah,
it's all connected, it's allinterconnected.
Shaman Isis (30:24):
It really is of the way you put that together so
beautifully, is that the youngergenerations and the women of
the future who will be runningthis world need women who are
saying straighten your crown up,girl.
This is your existence, yourexperience and you are in
complete command of it.
And like really empowering themand allowing them to see what
(30:46):
spiritual practices are reallyabout and removing them.
You know, you can be.
I don't mind people beingreligious, I don't have a
problem with it, I just I for me, those are separate.
That's a separate thing.
Yeah, and being able to givewomen space because we will be
running the world, yes, yes, wewill.
(31:07):
You know, I think we kind ofalready are.
We're just accepting that.
Anyway, if people wanted tolearn more about your company
and find out more about IAC youpronounce IAC so much better
than me.
You must speak Spanish.
Dr. Roopan Gill (31:20):
I do yes.
Yeah, I started learning likewhen I was starting the
organization, but my fiance isfrom Spain, so that also helps.
Shaman Isis (31:31):
So people wanted to , you guys Totally so.
Dr. Roopan Gill (31:34):
Aya Contigo.
If you're in the US, like I, wereally want as many people to
like know about it.
Tell your friends.
Like you know, you can downloadAya Contigo app on the Apple
Store, google Play Store.
It's a web app, so you can alsoaccess it through like a web
link um as well.
So if you go to our website,holaholaayacontigocom, you'll be
(32:00):
able to access our website.
And then going to our website,vitala Global and find us on
LinkedIn, find us on Instagram.
Um, yeah, I mean, I wanteverybody to know about it and
share about it.
And also another thing I'll addto this is like people should
also know that they can getabortion pills in all 50 states.
So we're partnered with a lotof amazing organizations, so I
(32:22):
want to shout that out too,because I think there's so much
misinformation.
But you can still get throughonline pharmacies all 50 states.
You can get abortion pills.
Plan C pills is amazing.
For information, I need an Aeven M&A hotline.
Some of these key resources canbe really supportive Aid,
access and for folks to justeven know that they can do
(32:43):
advanced provision of like buypills and keep them in their
cupboard, because you never knowand you can do that.
Shaman Isis (32:49):
Yeah, I love that.
So that was well said.
Um, before we go, I'll tell yousomething that I saw that was
on I think it was on uh x or uhor twitter, and it was this far,
you know, and I, I'm I'm inmiddle of the road, I'm a middle
person, I'm I'm neitherdemocrat nor republican, but I
it was one of the people who'sreally pushed the abortion
(33:10):
restrictions in the country andshe was like are these
politicians in those postswithout thinking about it?
She's like you know that thegovernment is out of control
when they start telling you how,what oven to choose.
Oh my god, somebody responded,and they were like and aren't
you the one telling women whatto do with their?
Dr. Roopan Gill (33:28):
bodies.
That's so funny.
Shaman Isis (33:33):
I love that oh my God, it was so, it was just so
perfect and it was like you knowget, get out of women's
healthcare decisions, it'senough.
Dr. Roopan Gill (33:43):
Totally I agree.
Shaman Isis (33:44):
It's been such a pleasure to get a chance to
speak to you.
Hopefully, I'll get a chance tomeet you if you come to New
York or I'm in Canada.
Dr. Roopan Gill (33:51):
Yes, definitely.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Really enjoyed thisconversation.
Shaman Isis (33:56):
Thank you, you guys .
If you're not alreadysubscribed to Citizen Journalist
, what are you thinking?
I mean, we were just featuredin People and Entertainment
Weekly and a bunch of otherplaces, so you know you get on
it and subscribe to support theconversation.
That takes, you know, importanttopics from soundbites to
solutions.
And if you haven't checked outmy book, I'd grab a copy of it.
(34:18):
It's too far away from me.
If you haven't grabbed a copyof Memory Mansion, which shares
my journey from Tennesseeorphanage to the red carpets of
New York City fashion, todepression and being very
overweight, to happiness, thenplease go check out memory
mansion, because you guys helpedmake it a number one.
So please do that.
And if you haven't alreadyreviewed it, please do that as
(34:38):
well.
Anyway, you guys can follow meon social media.
I'm at shaman ISIS or at shamanISIS official, just about
everywhere, and you can find outmore about the show and all the
work that I do atshamanicistcom.
Anyway, you guys have abeautiful week and thank you
again, my dear.
Dr. Roopan Gill (34:53):
Thank you, thank you so much, bye, bye, you
guys, bye.
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