December 27, 2021 • 25 mins
Thinking about switching to a career in UX/UI Design? Then Maca from Avocademy has just the program for you!
Listen as I interview Maca Baigorria to learn more about what made her start Avocademy, what UX/UI design is, and how the program works to prepare you for employment in UX/UI Design!
Avocademy Links:
Learn more about Avocademy here:
https://www.avocademy.com/a/32528/6RZJ5Z6S
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/avocademy_/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@avocademy
How to Get Website Help from Avocademy Students!
Avocademy is helping startups, small businesses, and non-profits with their design needs. Our graduates participate in 2-4 week long projects that can help you! (It's completely free)
What Avocademy Helps With:
- UX Research
- Heuristic Evaluation of your Current Product
- User Journey Maps
- Wireframes (Low/ High Fidelity)
- Redesign Websites/Apps
- Style Guides
- User Testing
What Avocademy Doesn't Help With:
- Logos
- Coding/Development
If you are interested they ask for two things:
- That you fill out this form for each project that you have
- That you allow the graduates to add the project they complete for you into their portfolios.
My Links
Thinking about making a career shift yourself? Visit my website to learn more about my career coaching packages, what services they include, and their prices.
https://www.evergrowthcoach.com/
Tools I Use for This Show:
Podbean - I use Podbean to host my website because I think they do a great job of distributing it to podcast channels are super easy to use. If you'd like to give it a whirl, here's a link for one month free! https://www.podbean.com/GoFindOutPodcast
Canva - Free 30 day trial of Canva Pro! Make stunning social media images with Canva's designer tools! https://partner.canva.com/c/2534412/647168/10068
Looking for more inspiration?
Sign up for the Go Find Out Podcast email list and get tips on how to kick your fears to the curb and go find out! You'll also hear about upcoming guests and any new book releases! https://mailchi.mp/269e51a68b80/im-ready-to-go-find-out
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TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@evergrowthcoach?
Email me: EvergrowthCoach@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to go find outthe career switch podcast.
I 'm Jennifer Jelliff-Russell, authorcareer, coach, and speaker bringing you
actionable ideas from knowledgeable guestson how to successfully take your fears to
the curb to go after your career goals,you can find more episodes by visiting.
Go find out podcast.com.
Enjoy the show and go find out.
(00:27):
Welcome back to go find outthe career switch podcast.
I'm your host, Jennifer Jelliff-Russell. And this is episode number 64.
Today, I'll be speaking withMaca Baigorria about her journey
of starting the UX UI designeducational platform, Avocademy.
And we'll be learning more aboutwhat UX UI design is as well
as how you can consider careerswitching to this industry.
(00:50):
But first let's jumpinto my personal update.
Hello, hello careers.
I hope you're all having a great holiday.
I'm recording this the day afterChristmas, which I spent hanging out
with my husband and our two dogs.
It was a really nice to kind ofjust relax over the past few days.
It really gave me the chance tokind of step back and look at what
(01:12):
I like doing what I want to do andhow I can build a path to get there.
Don't worry.
I am still writing fiction andnonfiction, and I will continue to
do this podcast, but my interest isreally being pulled into the tech.
Like many of you, I have been intriguedby the idea of getting into tech, but
I hadn't been sure where to start.
(01:33):
So I followed my own advice from episode64 on how to look before I just leap
into something new in order to makesure that it's actually the right
thing for me to go after at this time.
So to help me kind of figure out whatthe heck I want to go after I ended up
signing up for LinkedIn's learning plan.
It costs about 20 bucks a monthafter the first free month.
(01:54):
But you do get to take an unlimitedamount of courses with certifications
in the long run, because I'm interestedin so many different areas of tech
taking courses in the differentareas that I'm interested in.
It will be a lot cheaper through LinkedInlearning than it would have been through
other sites like you, Demi, or Coursera.
And for most of the courses that Itake, I get a certification through
(02:15):
LinkedIn learning, and I can add thatto my LinkedIn profile and my brother.
So if you're like me and you're not reallysure which area of tech to pursue or
what career in another industry that youwant to pursue would be that I recommend
reading up on those industries or areasand taking free courses in each one.
This will help give you an ideaof whether or not you'll actually
(02:35):
enjoy that field before you reallydedicate yourself to one thing.
And if you don't have money to dropon courses, there's always YouTube.
Seriously.
A lot of people have taughtthemselves how to code or do
graphic design from YouTube videos.
There's a ton of great content on there.
That's entirely free.
So it's a great place for.
(02:55):
And you're taking some coursesacross a few different tech fields.
I find that I'm really drawn tolearning and design experience
as well as UX UI design.
Both are really interesting, but Ithink the learning and design industry
would be probably a better fit for me.
I'll be working on bringing on moreguests on this podcast who either work
in these fields or have a certificationcourse or bootcamp in these areas.
(03:17):
And that way we can learn about them.
And though I'm looking intolearning and experience design
and taking courses in it.
I'm also still doing the Salesforceadministration training, because
I think that that is a really goodskill and certification to have
with so many organizations usingthe Salesforce platform right now.
So many trainings, so little.
(03:37):
All right.
Let's jump into the interview with Monicaso we can learn more about UX, UI design,
what it is and how you might pursue acareer in this fast growing industry.
So, today I'm speaking with MacaBaigorria, , who co-founded Avocademy
an educational platform launchedin 2020 that helps people change
(03:58):
careers into the UX UI designer.
One of the things that really stoodout to me about this program is
that they have a goal of making thefield more diverse by providing an
inclusive and welcoming program,which I just think is super fantastic.
So welcome to theshow
maca.
Hi.
How's it going?
I'm super stoked to have you on here.
(04:19):
I have been at seeing yourTikToks all over the place.
Um, so I was like, I haveto learn more about this.
Um, but before I ask, you know, anyspecific questions about you and your
journey and Avocademy, can you actuallykind of explain what the heck UX UI design
actually.
is?.
Um, I think that's a great first question.
I'm going to definitelyoversimplify it, but I hope this
(04:41):
makes sense to, to the listener.
So when we talk about UX UI design, we'reusually talking about digital design.
So like apps or websites and UX is howthings work and UI is how things look.
So if we compare UX UI to like buildinga house, UX designers are the architects
(05:02):
who designed the layout of the house.
And UI designers are theinterior designers who design
the aesthetics of the house.
Okay.
And to take it one step further,web developers are the contractors
who actually built the house.
Um, but UX, UI design actually doesnot include any coding or developing.
It's just the design sideof things
Nice
a really good analogy and just evenbreak it down even further, um, UX UI.
(05:25):
So UX stands for user experience.
Right?
Yes
And UIstands for user interface design.
Exactly yup.
Okay.
Just making sure I'm tracking.
Okay.
Perfect.
I feel like it's super interesting.
Um, stuff and I um, I'm going toask you more questions about it.
Um, I did have a question about it.
Um, cause I've been kind of lookingat different, um, you know, UX UI.
(05:47):
Programs and courses.
Um, but I feel like there's definitelyalways something holding me back about
being afraid of like getting intocoding or I have to learn coding.
Does UX UI have anything todo with coding or just coding?
Have anything to do with UX UI?
Yeah, so they kind of go handin hand, but it's not required.
So UX UI design is the first step of theprocess and there's no coding involved for
(06:11):
UX UI design UI designer is actually handoff to the coders, what needs to be coded.
So you don't need to know howto code, to do UX UI design.
Ah, okay.
That's pretty cool.
And so now kind of goingback to your experience.
So I of course, stalked you, on LinkedIn.
Cause that's what I do.
I see that your degrees areactually in mechanical engineering.
(06:33):
So can you kind of tell us alittle bit about your journey
and what led you to UX UI design?
Yeah.
Um, it's been an interesting journey,um, to say the least, um, in, in
undergrad I studied mechanicalengineering, like you mentioned.
My dream was to like design airplanes tohave this weird obsession with airplanes.
Um, so I worked super hard to get ajob at Boeing, which is where I worked
(06:57):
and graduated college, moved across thecountry from Florida to Seattle to work
for Boeing and kind of realize that.
The physical design of airplanes,um, was not my passion, the airline
industry, um, maybe Asian industry isheavily regulated, obviously because
they need to, you know, these thingsneed to be really safe for them to fly.
(07:21):
So it is pretty slow in terms of.
Innovation and like really beingable to see what you design.
So I wasn't super happy in the job.
It just, wasn't a good fit for me.
I'm a very logical person given,you know, my engineering education,
but I'm also very creative.
So I actually quit my job and movedback home before it was cool to,
(07:43):
to live with your parents again.
And.
I was like trying to figureout what I would do next.
And in a panic, I enrolled ina master's program again in
mechanical engineering, like twoweeks before the semester started,
but I knew that was not it for me.
So while I was doing that degree,I actually somehow through like a
YouTube hole found what UX UI designwas, which is how, you know, I find
(08:07):
that a lot of things these days and.
I decided like, oh, Ithink this is for me.
It's like logical, it'screative and it's digital.
Right?
So it's going to move fast because theworld is moving fast in the digital space.
So while I was doing this master'sprogram that I knew it wasn't
for me, but I didn't feel okay.
Quitting.
I actually taught myself UX UI design.
(08:28):
Through YouTube through like Googleand just like, you know, free stuff.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
I then, um, used Craigslistwhen he was even a little bit
sketchier than it is now, um, tofind businesses that were needing
websites and stuff designed for them.
And I don't my portfolio.
(08:49):
Cold emailing people from Craigslist.
And I use that to actually then getmy first job at an accelerator, um,
in Georgia, where I did a lot of workfor small companies like startups.
And then I finally got my firstlike full UX UI design job for IBM.
So it was kind of a ride thatI took you all in on right now.
(09:14):
But, um, yeah, it was so self-taught.
Not don't have like an officialUX UI design degree, but actually
was able to kind of start at IBM.
Then I went to PWC.
Really progressed quickly in my career,um, and ended up in a role where I
was managing a team of a couple ofdesigners and even interviewing folks,
(09:34):
um, junior folks that were coming into
the field.
That's so cool, and it's socool that you were self-taught.
Um, it's funny.
I just did an episode about following.
Uh, the white rabbit, like downrabbit holes on like YouTube or
whatever you're interested in.
And it's so cool.
They're like, that is howyou actually taught yourself.
That's awesome.
And so kind of fast forwardto now, or actually 2020.
(09:55):
And can you tell us kind of a littlebit more about Avocademy itself
and hopefully I'm pronouncing thatcorrectly and, and like what it
is and like what prompted you to.
Yeah.
So from a young age, I wassuper passionate about teaching.
Um, I have two younger siblingsand I, we always played teacher
and I was always the teacher.
Um, I drove them crazy.
(10:16):
Um, but my, my parents arewell and myself are immigrants.
We, I was actually born in Argentina.
And something that was, you know, toldto us was like, you know, we're here
for you to have a better opportunityand like, we want you to be successful.
Um, and there's just thiscorrelation with like education
and not making a lot of money.
Right.
And not being a career that couldprovide you like super stable future.
(10:40):
So, um, I actually decided notto pursue education and I pursued
engineering for that reason.
All throughout my life.
I've always like Seeked, youknow, opportunities that were
mentoring or education relatedbecause I knew that's kind of.
Fulfilled my, my passions.
Right.
And really made me feel fulfilled.
So at my job at PWC, I started mentoringsome of like the younger junior designers
(11:06):
and realized like, oh, I really love this.
Like, this is, you know,what I, what I like to do.
Um, so on the side, I startedhelping people that were trying to
change careers by mentoring them.
And I realized that like the optionsout there right now, for people
that want to change careers or thesetraditional boot camps are these
really expensive master programs.
(11:26):
And they're expensive.
I don't know if you know, but like, uh,you know, one of the bootcamps can cost
you anywhere from 10,000 to $15,000.
Yeah.
There's not a lot of people I knowthat have that kind of money just
lying around and quit their jobsand do these full-time programs.
So I started seeing two things, which was.
In my workplace, thingscould be more diverse.
(11:48):
Like I was really lucky that the teamI was working in was pretty diverse.
But as soon as you left south Florida,you know, and maybe went to some
different cities, the diversityjust wasn't there in the tech field.
And then I also realized, oh,it's because there's like a high
barrier to entry to be able to do.
You know, career change, like tobe able to have money in time.
(12:09):
So I realized like the way to make thefield more diverse is to create more
diverse designers and to do that, youhave to create an accessible program.
Um, so that's kind of what led me tostart the program and what it is really.
I don't think I've said what, what it is.
It's an online, it's a short andaffordable program that helps people
(12:31):
change careers into the UX UI design.
field.
When you say short, isit, was it eight weeks?
Is that
yep.
It's eight weeks.
And it's part-time.
And so now when you were firststarting of academy, did you have any
fears before, like kind of launching?
Yeah.
So I actually thought of this, uh,in 2019, and I spent a lot of time
(12:54):
on Reddit, um, talking to people thatwere considering and, and just trying
to understand the pain points and whythey weren't making the career change.
And.
I created the curriculum back thenand I tested it with a small group of
people, just like any designer would do.
And for a long time, I stoppedmyself from starting the program.
(13:16):
Honestly.
I was scared of success.
Um, and I was scared that wewouldn't be able to help people
and we would let them down.
Um, adult education isreally hard field to crack.
Um, and I just want to make surewe could really make a difference.
So until the pandemic started, Ireally was holding myself back.
(13:36):
And at that point I just toldmyself, like, I can't say
I don't have time anymore.
All I have is time.
So let's just try.
Right.
And that's kind of, when we, wegot started in full fulfilled.
That's awesome.
What would you say that like yourbiggest challenge has been in either
starting or operating Avocademy?
I know my strengths and my weaknesses,and I'm really good at our product.
(13:58):
I'm really good at helping thesestudents and mentoring them.
Um, as you're growing a company, there'sa lot of other things that go into it.
So like a lot of HRbudgeting spreadsheets.
And for me that's difficult, right?
Like all the HR finance activitiesto this date, we have a team of
over 22 staff members, mentors,um, you know, marketing sales.
(14:22):
So we, we want to make sure, especially,especially our mentors that we hired can
upkeep the standards of our program thatreally set us apart from other programs.
So.
That has been for me personally, thebiggest challenge is, is doing a lot
of the stuff that I know I'm not reallygreat at which very recently I brought
on a co-founder to help me with this.
(14:43):
Um, but growing a team so fast,um, definitely was noteasy.
I can imagine
it can kind of get away fromyou if you're not careful.
Right.
And so let's kind of shift and talka little bit more about avocado
itself and like the programs.
Um, so we mentioned that the, the,is it the foundations program?
That's eight weeks.
(15:04):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Perfect.
So the UX UI foundationsprogram is eight weeks.
Um, but can like anyone become a student,even if they don't have any kind of like
tech background or design background.
Yeah.
The bulk of our students don'thave a tech or design background.
Um, we have, um, folks that areteachers, healthcare workers, um,
(15:25):
. Recent college students that, youknow, maybe studied something and they
weren't sure what they want it to do.
You know, moms that took time offand now are wanting to go back into
the field, but they didn't reallylike what they were doing before.
So time off.
So really, you know, all sorts ofbackgrounds, um, and we tailor the
course to like your learning styleand like your tech abilities and
(15:46):
you know, all the things that makeus diverse and unique individuals.
That's pretty neat.
So it's not just here'shere's some modules go for it.
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.
So we have unlimited mentoring.
That's like one of our, I think strengthsand we have, you can jump on a zoom call
one-on-one with any of our many mentorsand as many times as week as you want.
(16:09):
So for that, we equip our mentors withlike, you know, the learning styles
and the strengths of the students.
So they can help thestudent in the way that.
They're going to best besuccessful in the course.
If someone is thinking of switchingcareers, would you say that
Avocademy is something that theycould maybe like do while they're
still like in a job in another
field?
Yes.
(16:30):
And we recommend it.
Um, anytime we jump on like, um,one of the free mentoring calls we
do with folks and they say, oh, I'mlooking to quit my job and do this.
We, we highly suggest thatthey don't quit their job.
Um, because you, you know, the, theprocess is not only eight weeks and
then, you know, snap your finger.
You have a new job.
That's realistically takesanywhere from like six months to
(16:52):
10 months from start to finish.
We have a second program thathelps support once you finish
UX, UI foundations, and all ofit is 15 to 20 hours a week.
And it's super flexible.
So like we tell a mom, like, youknow, moms with newborns, like when
they're napping, you can do the course.
Once they go to sleep,you can do the course.
Like there's no specific time thatyou have to be online, which allows
(17:14):
for flexibility of doing it on theweekends or before work, during
lunch, after work type of schedule.
Nice.
And you kind of touched on this,but what, like, what are the job
prospects like in, you know, UX UI?
And, um, you mentioned thatyour, um, program actually helps
students connect with employment.
The, is it the third piece that does that?
(17:34):
The second.
So it's a two, we, yeah,we have a two step process.
Um, so the first process is the first stepis kind of what we've been talking about.
UX, UI foundations, um,it's individual eight weeks.
You have the support of allof our mentors and that's more
like the learning phase, right?
You want to make sure youunderstand all the pieces.
And then our second stepis called career jumpstart.
(17:57):
And for folks that finish UX,UI foundations, and they're
like, yes, I want to do this.
I want a job in this field.
In that program, we actually allow youto collaborate with other students and
we give you, um, pro bono opportunitiesfor you to work with real clients.
And
that's cool.
Yeah.
So not only to get more experience,but really to like build the
(18:17):
confidence of our students to showthem like, you can do this, like you
just did it for a real client andyou just presented to the client.
You know, they're going to takewhat you've designed and like
really build it and go out there.
So we do that in career jumpstart.
And then, um, we spend anywhere fromtwo to six months helping each student
go through the interview process.
(18:38):
Like we tell them howmany jobs to apply to.
We help them.
What I call, I'm doing air quotes,but interview therapy, which is just
like hyping them up before callsand telling them they could do it
and prepping them, you know, mockinterviews and stuff like that.
So we definitely helpwith that part of things.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And right now, The market forUX UI design is like super hot.
(19:01):
Um, there's like 22,000 open jobs inthe us, um, for this field and our
students actually within the last couplemonths have been able to find jobs.
Within a month or two, when beforeit would take up to like four
months of, you know, job searching.
Wow.
So yeah, it's been increasing andhow fast students can find jobs.
(19:21):
And our salary range for ourgrads is anywhere from like 55 K
to like 156,000 starting salary.
And this is for people that have noexperience at all, which is insane.
Um, I definitely was notmaking that kind of money.
My first job, um, But yeah, a huge range.
(19:42):
And then our average is landing aroundlike 80, 85,000 for our students.
Wow.
Which has been really cool.
And like, honestly, the most rewardingpart of starting this company is being
able to like help people and hear theirstories about how their lives are changed
and never thought they could make thismuch money while doing something they love
that's so fantastic.
It just, just the fact that you're, youknow, providing that scaffolding for
(20:04):
them all the way through the program,and then you have that career piece
at the end, like to me, like I comefrom a career coaching background.
Um, I've done that for nine years and thatis such a huge deal to have that, that to
me is what makes the difference between,like you were saying, like just general
courses on UX, UI design, and a bootcampthat actually takes you through the whole
(20:24):
process and connects you with employment.
That's fantastic.
Yeah.
It's, it's a hard process to go through.
Like, not only do we help in likea, a mentor way, like we have these
daily calls where other people thatare going through the same thing.
like can talk and build communityand there's, you know, slack where
they can talk to other folks.
So we're building a whole community ofpeople that are kind of going through
(20:45):
this at the same time, which is great.
So you don't feel like you're aloneand all you're getting is like all
theseno's from, from employers asyou're going through the process.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Awesome.
And what would you say that yourbiggest piece of advice is for someone
who's interested in getting into tech?
You know, whether it's UX, UIdesign, or maybe even something else.
I would say not to be intimidated and tojust, you know, give it a, give it a try.
(21:07):
A lot of the people we, we talk withthat are considering the career change.
They're like, I dunno if I can do this.
And when we tell people, it's like, ifyou're willing to put in the time, it's,
it's definitely something you can do.
It's something that can be taught.
So don't doubt yourselfand just try it out.
You know, like we're not saying signup for that $15,000 course, but like,
(21:27):
look at some YouTube videos or, youknow, Sign up for our course, if you
want, but there's, there's free thingsyou can do to see if it's for you.
Um, and don't doubt that you can't do it.
I think with the right help,um, anybody can, can really do
this if they put in the time.
Awesome.
And I also noticed on the websitethat you actually have a place where
folks, if they're not sure if theywant to like chat with somebody about,
(21:50):
you know, whether it's the right movefor them, that they can actually sign
up to, it looks like chat with you.
Um, so we, yeah, there's, our wholeteam has availability in our calendars.
So even to this day, you know, a yearand a year plus of starting the company,
um, I still talk to potential studentsevery day, um, for an hour or two.
And then we have like our teammembers that do it full time.
(22:12):
But yeah, if, if any of you areinterested, um, you can go to our website
and, and schedule a call to talk to us.
And we will just hear kind of whereyou're at, where your strengths are,
and then be super honest, whether wethink the field in general is for you.
Nice.
And so where can we actuallylearn more about Avocademy?
Um, I would say our website isprobably the most informational and
(22:33):
that's avocademy.com and like youmentioned, if you are, want to be
entertained, um, we do have somepretty funny TikToksthat we do in our
TikTok , which is also at Avocademy.
Yeah.
I think some of the first onesthat came across were you guys like
celebrating some of your clients, likelanding really great jobs, so really
cool stuff.
Yeah.
We've been trying to do some ofthe trends, but apply it to our
(22:55):
business, which has been superinteresting, to say the least.
Yes.
TikTok is always interesting.
Yes.
Well, perfect.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Maca.
. Yeah.
Thank
you for having me.
What a great interview with Maca.
I really appreciate her coming on the showto share her journey of starting Avocademy
(23:16):
and how the program itself works.
We actually ended up chatting alittle more after the interview.
And I learned that she is always lookingfor businesses who are open to having
their website looked at by her students.
This gives the students hands-onexperience that they can list on their
portfolio and can help the business gain amuch more user-friendly website for free.
You know, I can't pass that up listeners.
(23:36):
So I have already started working witha group of students from Avocademy to
develop an even better, more user-friendlysite for my Evergrowth Coach Business.
.I'll also be doing the same thing for my JJ Russell site,
which houses all my fiction.
It's been a really great experienceworking with theAvocademy students
so far, they did a really great job ofasking questions to learn more about what
(23:56):
functions I'm looking for on my site,what my priorities were for it and how
I generally pictured the design of it.
So if you have a business and arelooking for a free opportunity to
have your website redesigned toincrease its functionality and ease
of use, check out the link in my show.
Some of the things that the applecademy students can help with
are user experience, research,heuristic, evaluation of your current
(24:20):
product, user journey, maps, wireframes, redesign of websites or apps,
style guides, and user testing.
So if you're interested in this free helpcheck out the show notes for this episode
where I'll drop a link that will let youfill out an application for your site
to be reviewed by the Avocademy team.
(24:40):
All right.
That's all for today.
Join me next week for a solo episodeon how to avoid getting burned out
by pursuing too many interests atonce . Until then, Go find out.
Thanks for listening to the show.
I hope the information helps youtackle your own career switch goals.
(25:01):
You can let me know what you saw at theshow by messaging me on Instagram at go
find out career switch or commenting onwhat if I take talks at ever growth coach.
That's it for today now go find out.
Welcome to go find outthe career switch podcast.
I 'm Jennifer Jelliff-Russell, authorcareer, coach, and speaker bringing you
actionable ideas from knowledgeable guestson how to successfully take your fears to
the curb to go after your career goals,you can find more episodes by visiting.
Go find out podcast.com.
Enjoy the show and go find out.
(00:27):
Welcome back to go find outthe career switch podcast.
I'm your host, Jennifer Jelliff-Russell. And this is episode number 64.
Today, I'll be speaking withMaca Baigorria about her journey
of starting the UX UI designeducational platform, Avocademy.
And we'll be learning more aboutwhat UX UI design is as well
as how you can consider careerswitching to this industry.
(00:50):
But first let's jumpinto my personal update.
Hello, hello careers.
I hope you're all having a great holiday.
I'm recording this the day afterChristmas, which I spent hanging out
with my husband and our two dogs.
It was a really nice to kind ofjust relax over the past few days.
It really gave me the chance tokind of step back and look at what
(01:12):
I like doing what I want to do andhow I can build a path to get there.
Don't worry.
I am still writing fiction andnonfiction, and I will continue to
do this podcast, but my interest isreally being pulled into the tech.
Like many of you, I have been intriguedby the idea of getting into tech, but
I hadn't been sure where to start.
(01:33):
So I followed my own advice from episode64 on how to look before I just leap
into something new in order to makesure that it's actually the right
thing for me to go after at this time.
So to help me kind of figure out whatthe heck I want to go after I ended up
signing up for LinkedIn's learning plan.
It costs about 20 bucks a monthafter the first free month.
(01:54):
But you do get to take an unlimitedamount of courses with certifications
in the long run, because I'm interestedin so many different areas of tech
taking courses in the differentareas that I'm interested in.
It will be a lot cheaper through LinkedInlearning than it would have been through
other sites like you, Demi, or Coursera.
And for most of the courses that Itake, I get a certification through
(02:15):
LinkedIn learning, and I can add thatto my LinkedIn profile and my brother.
So if you're like me and you're not reallysure which area of tech to pursue or
what career in another industry that youwant to pursue would be that I recommend
reading up on those industries or areasand taking free courses in each one.
This will help give you an ideaof whether or not you'll actually
(02:35):
enjoy that field before you reallydedicate yourself to one thing.
And if you don't have money to dropon courses, there's always YouTube.
Seriously.
A lot of people have taughtthemselves how to code or do
graphic design from YouTube videos.
There's a ton of great content on there.
That's entirely free.
So it's a great place for.
(02:55):
And you're taking some coursesacross a few different tech fields.
I find that I'm really drawn tolearning and design experience
as well as UX UI design.
Both are really interesting, but Ithink the learning and design industry
would be probably a better fit for me.
I'll be working on bringing on moreguests on this podcast who either work
in these fields or have a certificationcourse or bootcamp in these areas.
(03:17):
And that way we can learn about them.
And though I'm looking intolearning and experience design
and taking courses in it.
I'm also still doing the Salesforceadministration training, because
I think that that is a really goodskill and certification to have
with so many organizations usingthe Salesforce platform right now.
So many trainings, so little.
(03:37):
All right.
Let's jump into the interview with Monicaso we can learn more about UX, UI design,
what it is and how you might pursue acareer in this fast growing industry.
So, today I'm speaking with MacaBaigorria, , who co-founded Avocademy
an educational platform launchedin 2020 that helps people change
(03:58):
careers into the UX UI designer.
One of the things that really stoodout to me about this program is
that they have a goal of making thefield more diverse by providing an
inclusive and welcoming program,which I just think is super fantastic.
So welcome to theshow
maca.
Hi.
How's it going?
I'm super stoked to have you on here.
(04:19):
I have been at seeing yourTikToks all over the place.
Um, so I was like, I haveto learn more about this.
Um, but before I ask, you know, anyspecific questions about you and your
journey and Avocademy, can you actuallykind of explain what the heck UX UI design
actually.
is?.
Um, I think that's a great first question.
I'm going to definitelyoversimplify it, but I hope this
(04:41):
makes sense to, to the listener.
So when we talk about UX UI design, we'reusually talking about digital design.
So like apps or websites and UX is howthings work and UI is how things look.
So if we compare UX UI to like buildinga house, UX designers are the architects
(05:02):
who designed the layout of the house.
And UI designers are theinterior designers who design
the aesthetics of the house.
Okay.
And to take it one step further,web developers are the contractors
who actually built the house.
Um, but UX, UI design actually doesnot include any coding or developing.
It's just the design sideof things
Nice
a really good analogy and just evenbreak it down even further, um, UX UI.
(05:25):
So UX stands for user experience.
Right?
Yes
And UIstands for user interface design.
Exactly yup.
Okay.
Just making sure I'm tracking.
Okay.
Perfect.
I feel like it's super interesting.
Um, stuff and I um, I'm going toask you more questions about it.
Um, I did have a question about it.
Um, cause I've been kind of lookingat different, um, you know, UX UI.
(05:47):
Programs and courses.
Um, but I feel like there's definitelyalways something holding me back about
being afraid of like getting intocoding or I have to learn coding.
Does UX UI have anything todo with coding or just coding?
Have anything to do with UX UI?
Yeah, so they kind of go handin hand, but it's not required.
So UX UI design is the first step of theprocess and there's no coding involved for
(06:11):
UX UI design UI designer is actually handoff to the coders, what needs to be coded.
So you don't need to know howto code, to do UX UI design.
Ah, okay.
That's pretty cool.
And so now kind of goingback to your experience.
So I of course, stalked you, on LinkedIn.
Cause that's what I do.
I see that your degrees areactually in mechanical engineering.
(06:33):
So can you kind of tell us alittle bit about your journey
and what led you to UX UI design?
Yeah.
Um, it's been an interesting journey,um, to say the least, um, in, in
undergrad I studied mechanicalengineering, like you mentioned.
My dream was to like design airplanes tohave this weird obsession with airplanes.
Um, so I worked super hard to get ajob at Boeing, which is where I worked
(06:57):
and graduated college, moved across thecountry from Florida to Seattle to work
for Boeing and kind of realize that.
The physical design of airplanes,um, was not my passion, the airline
industry, um, maybe Asian industry isheavily regulated, obviously because
they need to, you know, these thingsneed to be really safe for them to fly.
(07:21):
So it is pretty slow in terms of.
Innovation and like really beingable to see what you design.
So I wasn't super happy in the job.
It just, wasn't a good fit for me.
I'm a very logical person given,you know, my engineering education,
but I'm also very creative.
So I actually quit my job and movedback home before it was cool to,
(07:43):
to live with your parents again.
And.
I was like trying to figureout what I would do next.
And in a panic, I enrolled ina master's program again in
mechanical engineering, like twoweeks before the semester started,
but I knew that was not it for me.
So while I was doing that degree,I actually somehow through like a
YouTube hole found what UX UI designwas, which is how, you know, I find
(08:07):
that a lot of things these days and.
I decided like, oh, Ithink this is for me.
It's like logical, it'screative and it's digital.
Right?
So it's going to move fast because theworld is moving fast in the digital space.
So while I was doing this master'sprogram that I knew it wasn't
for me, but I didn't feel okay.
Quitting.
I actually taught myself UX UI design.
(08:28):
Through YouTube through like Googleand just like, you know, free stuff.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
I then, um, used Craigslistwhen he was even a little bit
sketchier than it is now, um, tofind businesses that were needing
websites and stuff designed for them.
And I don't my portfolio.
(08:49):
Cold emailing people from Craigslist.
And I use that to actually then getmy first job at an accelerator, um,
in Georgia, where I did a lot of workfor small companies like startups.
And then I finally got my firstlike full UX UI design job for IBM.
So it was kind of a ride thatI took you all in on right now.
(09:14):
But, um, yeah, it was so self-taught.
Not don't have like an officialUX UI design degree, but actually
was able to kind of start at IBM.
Then I went to PWC.
Really progressed quickly in my career,um, and ended up in a role where I
was managing a team of a couple ofdesigners and even interviewing folks,
(09:34):
um, junior folks that were coming into
the field.
That's so cool, and it's socool that you were self-taught.
Um, it's funny.
I just did an episode about following.
Uh, the white rabbit, like downrabbit holes on like YouTube or
whatever you're interested in.
And it's so cool.
They're like, that is howyou actually taught yourself.
That's awesome.
And so kind of fast forwardto now, or actually 2020.
(09:55):
And can you tell us kind of a littlebit more about Avocademy itself
and hopefully I'm pronouncing thatcorrectly and, and like what it
is and like what prompted you to.
Yeah.
So from a young age, I wassuper passionate about teaching.
Um, I have two younger siblingsand I, we always played teacher
and I was always the teacher.
Um, I drove them crazy.
(10:16):
Um, but my, my parents arewell and myself are immigrants.
We, I was actually born in Argentina.
And something that was, you know, toldto us was like, you know, we're here
for you to have a better opportunityand like, we want you to be successful.
Um, and there's just thiscorrelation with like education
and not making a lot of money.
Right.
And not being a career that couldprovide you like super stable future.
(10:40):
So, um, I actually decided notto pursue education and I pursued
engineering for that reason.
All throughout my life.
I've always like Seeked, youknow, opportunities that were
mentoring or education relatedbecause I knew that's kind of.
Fulfilled my, my passions.
Right.
And really made me feel fulfilled.
So at my job at PWC, I started mentoringsome of like the younger junior designers
(11:06):
and realized like, oh, I really love this.
Like, this is, you know,what I, what I like to do.
Um, so on the side, I startedhelping people that were trying to
change careers by mentoring them.
And I realized that like the optionsout there right now, for people
that want to change careers or thesetraditional boot camps are these
really expensive master programs.
(11:26):
And they're expensive.
I don't know if you know, but like, uh,you know, one of the bootcamps can cost
you anywhere from 10,000 to $15,000.
Yeah.
There's not a lot of people I knowthat have that kind of money just
lying around and quit their jobsand do these full-time programs.
So I started seeing two things, which was.
In my workplace, thingscould be more diverse.
(11:48):
Like I was really lucky that the teamI was working in was pretty diverse.
But as soon as you left south Florida,you know, and maybe went to some
different cities, the diversityjust wasn't there in the tech field.
And then I also realized, oh,it's because there's like a high
barrier to entry to be able to do.
You know, career change, like tobe able to have money in time.
(12:09):
So I realized like the way to make thefield more diverse is to create more
diverse designers and to do that, youhave to create an accessible program.
Um, so that's kind of what led me tostart the program and what it is really.
I don't think I've said what, what it is.
It's an online, it's a short andaffordable program that helps people
(12:31):
change careers into the UX UI design.
field.
When you say short, isit, was it eight weeks?
Is that
yep.
It's eight weeks.
And it's part-time.
And so now when you were firststarting of academy, did you have any
fears before, like kind of launching?
Yeah.
So I actually thought of this, uh,in 2019, and I spent a lot of time
(12:54):
on Reddit, um, talking to people thatwere considering and, and just trying
to understand the pain points and whythey weren't making the career change.
And.
I created the curriculum back thenand I tested it with a small group of
people, just like any designer would do.
And for a long time, I stoppedmyself from starting the program.
(13:16):
Honestly.
I was scared of success.
Um, and I was scared that wewouldn't be able to help people
and we would let them down.
Um, adult education isreally hard field to crack.
Um, and I just want to make surewe could really make a difference.
So until the pandemic started, Ireally was holding myself back.
(13:36):
And at that point I just toldmyself, like, I can't say
I don't have time anymore.
All I have is time.
So let's just try.
Right.
And that's kind of, when we, wegot started in full fulfilled.
That's awesome.
What would you say that like yourbiggest challenge has been in either
starting or operating Avocademy?
I know my strengths and my weaknesses,and I'm really good at our product.
(13:58):
I'm really good at helping thesestudents and mentoring them.
Um, as you're growing a company, there'sa lot of other things that go into it.
So like a lot of HRbudgeting spreadsheets.
And for me that's difficult, right?
Like all the HR finance activitiesto this date, we have a team of
over 22 staff members, mentors,um, you know, marketing sales.
(14:22):
So we, we want to make sure, especially,especially our mentors that we hired can
upkeep the standards of our program thatreally set us apart from other programs.
So.
That has been for me personally, thebiggest challenge is, is doing a lot
of the stuff that I know I'm not reallygreat at which very recently I brought
on a co-founder to help me with this.
(14:43):
Um, but growing a team so fast,um, definitely was noteasy.
I can imagine
it can kind of get away fromyou if you're not careful.
Right.
And so let's kind of shift and talka little bit more about avocado
itself and like the programs.
Um, so we mentioned that the, the,is it the foundations program?
That's eight weeks.
(15:04):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Perfect.
So the UX UI foundationsprogram is eight weeks.
Um, but can like anyone become a student,even if they don't have any kind of like
tech background or design background.
Yeah.
The bulk of our students don'thave a tech or design background.
Um, we have, um, folks that areteachers, healthcare workers, um,
(15:25):
. Recent college students that, youknow, maybe studied something and they
weren't sure what they want it to do.
You know, moms that took time offand now are wanting to go back into
the field, but they didn't reallylike what they were doing before.
So time off.
So really, you know, all sorts ofbackgrounds, um, and we tailor the
course to like your learning styleand like your tech abilities and
(15:46):
you know, all the things that makeus diverse and unique individuals.
That's pretty neat.
So it's not just here'shere's some modules go for it.
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.
So we have unlimited mentoring.
That's like one of our, I think strengthsand we have, you can jump on a zoom call
one-on-one with any of our many mentorsand as many times as week as you want.
(16:09):
So for that, we equip our mentors withlike, you know, the learning styles
and the strengths of the students.
So they can help thestudent in the way that.
They're going to best besuccessful in the course.
If someone is thinking of switchingcareers, would you say that
Avocademy is something that theycould maybe like do while they're
still like in a job in another
field?
Yes.
(16:30):
And we recommend it.
Um, anytime we jump on like, um,one of the free mentoring calls we
do with folks and they say, oh, I'mlooking to quit my job and do this.
We, we highly suggest thatthey don't quit their job.
Um, because you, you know, the, theprocess is not only eight weeks and
then, you know, snap your finger.
You have a new job.
That's realistically takesanywhere from like six months to
(16:52):
10 months from start to finish.
We have a second program thathelps support once you finish
UX, UI foundations, and all ofit is 15 to 20 hours a week.
And it's super flexible.
So like we tell a mom, like, youknow, moms with newborns, like when
they're napping, you can do the course.
Once they go to sleep,you can do the course.
Like there's no specific time thatyou have to be online, which allows
(17:14):
for flexibility of doing it on theweekends or before work, during
lunch, after work type of schedule.
Nice.
And you kind of touched on this,but what, like, what are the job
prospects like in, you know, UX UI?
And, um, you mentioned thatyour, um, program actually helps
students connect with employment.
The, is it the third piece that does that?
(17:34):
The second.
So it's a two, we, yeah,we have a two step process.
Um, so the first process is the first stepis kind of what we've been talking about.
UX, UI foundations, um,it's individual eight weeks.
You have the support of allof our mentors and that's more
like the learning phase, right?
You want to make sure youunderstand all the pieces.
And then our second stepis called career jumpstart.
(17:57):
And for folks that finish UX,UI foundations, and they're
like, yes, I want to do this.
I want a job in this field.
In that program, we actually allow youto collaborate with other students and
we give you, um, pro bono opportunitiesfor you to work with real clients.
And
that's cool.
Yeah.
So not only to get more experience,but really to like build the
(18:17):
confidence of our students to showthem like, you can do this, like you
just did it for a real client andyou just presented to the client.
You know, they're going to takewhat you've designed and like
really build it and go out there.
So we do that in career jumpstart.
And then, um, we spend anywhere fromtwo to six months helping each student
go through the interview process.
(18:38):
Like we tell them howmany jobs to apply to.
We help them.
What I call, I'm doing air quotes,but interview therapy, which is just
like hyping them up before callsand telling them they could do it
and prepping them, you know, mockinterviews and stuff like that.
So we definitely helpwith that part of things.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And right now, The market forUX UI design is like super hot.
(19:01):
Um, there's like 22,000 open jobs inthe us, um, for this field and our
students actually within the last couplemonths have been able to find jobs.
Within a month or two, when beforeit would take up to like four
months of, you know, job searching.
Wow.
So yeah, it's been increasing andhow fast students can find jobs.
(19:21):
And our salary range for ourgrads is anywhere from like 55 K
to like 156,000 starting salary.
And this is for people that have noexperience at all, which is insane.
Um, I definitely was notmaking that kind of money.
My first job, um, But yeah, a huge range.
(19:42):
And then our average is landing aroundlike 80, 85,000 for our students.
Wow.
Which has been really cool.
And like, honestly, the most rewardingpart of starting this company is being
able to like help people and hear theirstories about how their lives are changed
and never thought they could make thismuch money while doing something they love
that's so fantastic.
It just, just the fact that you're, youknow, providing that scaffolding for
(20:04):
them all the way through the program,and then you have that career piece
at the end, like to me, like I comefrom a career coaching background.
Um, I've done that for nine years and thatis such a huge deal to have that, that to
me is what makes the difference between,like you were saying, like just general
courses on UX, UI design, and a bootcampthat actually takes you through the whole
(20:24):
process and connects you with employment.
That's fantastic.
Yeah.
It's, it's a hard process to go through.
Like, not only do we help in likea, a mentor way, like we have these
daily calls where other people thatare going through the same thing.
like can talk and build communityand there's, you know, slack where
they can talk to other folks.
So we're building a whole community ofpeople that are kind of going through
(20:45):
this at the same time, which is great.
So you don't feel like you're aloneand all you're getting is like all
theseno's from, from employers asyou're going through the process.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Awesome.
And what would you say that yourbiggest piece of advice is for someone
who's interested in getting into tech?
You know, whether it's UX, UIdesign, or maybe even something else.
I would say not to be intimidated and tojust, you know, give it a, give it a try.
(21:07):
A lot of the people we, we talk withthat are considering the career change.
They're like, I dunno if I can do this.
And when we tell people, it's like, ifyou're willing to put in the time, it's,
it's definitely something you can do.
It's something that can be taught.
So don't doubt yourselfand just try it out.
You know, like we're not saying signup for that $15,000 course, but like,
(21:27):
look at some YouTube videos or, youknow, Sign up for our course, if you
want, but there's, there's free thingsyou can do to see if it's for you.
Um, and don't doubt that you can't do it.
I think with the right help,um, anybody can, can really do
this if they put in the time.
Awesome.
And I also noticed on the websitethat you actually have a place where
folks, if they're not sure if theywant to like chat with somebody about,
(21:50):
you know, whether it's the right movefor them, that they can actually sign
up to, it looks like chat with you.
Um, so we, yeah, there's, our wholeteam has availability in our calendars.
So even to this day, you know, a yearand a year plus of starting the company,
um, I still talk to potential studentsevery day, um, for an hour or two.
And then we have like our teammembers that do it full time.
(22:12):
But yeah, if, if any of you areinterested, um, you can go to our website
and, and schedule a call to talk to us.
And we will just hear kind of whereyou're at, where your strengths are,
and then be super honest, whether wethink the field in general is for you.
Nice.
And so where can we actuallylearn more about Avocademy?
Um, I would say our website isprobably the most informational and
(22:33):
that's avocademy.com and like youmentioned, if you are, want to be
entertained, um, we do have somepretty funny TikToksthat we do in our
TikTok , which is also at Avocademy.
Yeah.
I think some of the first onesthat came across were you guys like
celebrating some of your clients, likelanding really great jobs, so really
cool stuff.
Yeah.
We've been trying to do some ofthe trends, but apply it to our
(22:55):
business, which has been superinteresting, to say the least.
Yes.
TikTok is always interesting.
Yes.
Well, perfect.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Maca.
. Yeah.
Thank
you for having me.
What a great interview with Maca.
I really appreciate her coming on the showto share her journey of starting Avocademy
(23:16):
and how the program itself works.
We actually ended up chatting alittle more after the interview.
And I learned that she is always lookingfor businesses who are open to having
their website looked at by her students.
This gives the students hands-onexperience that they can list on their
portfolio and can help the business gain amuch more user-friendly website for free.
You know, I can't pass that up listeners.
(23:36):
So I have already started working witha group of students from Avocademy to
develop an even better, more user-friendlysite for my Evergrowth Coach Business.
.I'll also be doing the same thing for my JJ Russell site,
which houses all my fiction.
It's been a really great experienceworking with theAvocademy students
so far, they did a really great job ofasking questions to learn more about what
(23:56):
functions I'm looking for on my site,what my priorities were for it and how
I generally pictured the design of it.
So if you have a business and arelooking for a free opportunity to
have your website redesigned toincrease its functionality and ease
of use, check out the link in my show.
Some of the things that the applecademy students can help with
are user experience, research,heuristic, evaluation of your current
(24:20):
product, user journey, maps, wireframes, redesign of websites or apps,
style guides, and user testing.
So if you're interested in this free helpcheck out the show notes for this episode
where I'll drop a link that will let youfill out an application for your site
to be reviewed by the Avocademy team.
(24:40):
All right.
That's all for today.
Join me next week for a solo episodeon how to avoid getting burned out
by pursuing too many interests atonce . Until then, Go find out.
Thanks for listening to the show.
I hope the information helps youtackle your own career switch goals.
(25:01):
You can let me know what you saw at theshow by messaging me on Instagram at go
find out career switch or commenting onwhat if I take talks at ever growth coach.
That's it for today now go find out.
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