Ep 3 Jasmine ‘JJ’ Leech: How Actors Find Calm in the Chaos on Set

🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
▶️ Watch on YouTube: youtube.com/@gopluckyourselfpod
❤️ Support the show: patreon.com/gopluckyourselfpod 

Follow me on Instagram & TikTok:
@featuring_chris_gun
@gopluckyourselfpod

My IMDb: https://m.imdb.com/name/nm8690472/

Follow Jasmine Leech on Instagram: @jjleechie

Check out her IMDb: https://m.imdb.com/name/nm13324533/

This week on the show, I chat with the brilliant JJ Leach. She's a producer, assistant director, and one of the few people who truly understands both sides of the camera.

We met doing theatre, but it was on film sets where JJ really found her groove. With a background in psychology and a deep love for storytelling, she’s now the calm in the chaos. Running sets, lifting up directors, and creating safe, focused environments for actors to actually do their job.

We talk about finding your lane in the industry, what actors don’t understand about production, and how her empathy makes her a total weapon on set. 

You’re gonna love this one.

Like. Share. Comment. Support.

Thanks for listening. Let me know what you think.

🎵 Theme music by Nick Gun: soundcloud.com/nickgun

Send us a text

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm JJ Leach and you should go pluck yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
I don't know if you guys can tell from my pale skin
or the bags in my eyes or thesound of my voice, but I have
been hit with the worst flu inthe history of flus, so I'm
going to have to keep this introfairly short because I can't
breathe.
Welcome to Go.
Pluck Yourself.
The Actor's Pursuit.

(00:35):
I've been trying to find theenergy to record this intro for
over a week now.
This is the best I've felt inabout eight days.
It's the first time I've beenable to sit upright.
So I'm really sorry for thelack of energy, but please don't
conflate that with the lack ofenthusiasm, because I am really
excited to share this episodewith you, and that's because my
guest this week is not only avery talented actor, but she's

(00:58):
also one of the kindestfilmmakers that you'll ever meet
, if you're ever so lucky to beon a film set with her.
My guest this week is JasmineJJ Leach and I met her way back
in 2020 when we were bothperforming in the Laramie
Project, and she is an absolutedelight and it's a really
interesting chat in terms ofunderstanding the work both in
front of and behind the camera,because Jazzy has done both, and

(01:20):
I always think that if you cangain a well-rounded
understanding of the ins andouts of filmmaking as a whole,
whether that's in front of orbehind the camera or both, then
you're giving yourself a reallybig advantage.
And JJ has used her experienceto really strengthen her skills
to be the perfect connectionbetween actor and filmmaker,
which is an essential quality,especially if you're working as

(01:41):
an AD, which is what she does.
Just for the record, I did nothave the flu when I recorded
this chat with Jazz.
She's fine, she's healthy.
This is weeks afterwards, notto destroy the illusion.
Okay, just a little bit ofcontext.
Uh, just before we get into theepisode, if you're not totally
savvy with film lingo, you willhear us use the term AD quite a

(02:01):
lot in this episode.
Ad stands for assistantdirector and they basically keep
the day on schedule andcoordinate everything and
they're also the point ofcontact for most of the actors.
That's a really simplifiedversion of it, but it's a really
complicated job and basically,if a set is running smoothly,
you can thank the AD.
I also mention Red Phoenix,which is the independent theatre

(02:25):
company where Jazzy and I metdoing Laramie Project.
We also talk about MAPS, whichis the film school that Jazzy
and I both went to, but not inthe same year.
It's not where we met.
Maps is a school that loads ofAdelaide filmmakers have gone
through, famously the Filippobrothers or the Raka Raka
brothers of talk to me and bringher back fame, go adelaide.

(02:47):
Okay, I'm about to pass out, but, jazzy, I'm really sorry that I
couldn't be the hype man thatyour episode deserves.
But, guys, I promise you thatthis episode you're gonna you
guys are gonna get so much outof it.
It's a really insightful chat.
It's full of really validadvice and interesting
perspectives, and I'm gonna letthe conversation speak for
itself, because I can't speakfor anyone right now.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy my excellent chat with JJ

(03:10):
Leach.
You rocked up at my house today.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I was rudely on the phone.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I feel like, for someone who is on the phone,
you're the least rude I've evercome across.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I did this.
Wait, I said 1.15.
It's 1.09.
You looked at me and you'relike mm.
Sorry, George, she's here early.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
She got out of her car.
Go back, get back in your car.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I said 1.15.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
And then I was like oh, okay, so it was rude of you.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, it was quite rude of me.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I can't believe you.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I came out and I gave you a hug.
While you were on the phone youwere like get off me.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
She's hugging me man.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
No boundaries whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Does she know you're on the?

Speaker 1 (04:00):
I said yes, I'm here, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
You know.
All right, start billing now, Iguess.
So make it about me, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Today's about you Today's about me.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Tell me about how we met.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, it's kind of crazy because we met doing a
theatre show, which is I haven'tdone theatre since then.
That was the last theatre showI did, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
How crazy is that.
Well, you know, if you doanother one, it might not be as
good.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, well, I actually had that fear, because
that was a really good one.
It was like it kind of remindedme what I really love about
theater, like I'd done a fewtheater shows that I really
enjoyed, but that was one.
So we did the laramie project,which is like a drama about,
like I mean it's.
It's basically about thishorrible thing that happened to
a town, and then it's like realdialogue.

(04:44):
What's the word Real?
excerpts Verbatim, verbatim,yeah, verbatim theatre From the
town and it was one of thoseshows that just like everybody
really connected and everybodyreally cared about what we were
doing and you kind of like youhave this like true ensemble, I
think, which was really exciting.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
It was really special .
Hey, yeah, something about thatshow.
I spoke about this last weekwith Connor and it was the first
time that I really feltconnected to a script and I
realised oh, this is why theylike it.
This is what they get out of ityou know, but before that I was
just kind of saying words on astage.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
But I learnt so much in that process and I learned so
much from everyone that I wasworking with.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, it was a really nice one where everyone was
kind of helping each other out,especially because it was
American accents as well and itwas like very specific areas in
the US, without any ego, liketeaching each other how to do
that and then how to get intoeach character, because we all
had like seven characters each,so you had to have something
unique to all of them in, likephysically, mentally, and all of

(05:48):
them had like all thesedifferent experiences with this
trauma.
Like they all had kind ofdifferent traumas and all that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, and such a versatile bunch of characters,
we're like flipping from thesehorrible bigots to, you know,
one of Matthew's best friends,or something.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Just with a quick beat of a change.
You know one of Matthew's bestfriends or something.
Yeah, yeah, just with a quickbeat of a change you know, yeah,
it was such a good challenge.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, I think everyone cared so much about the
story and like what we weresaying was really important and
still, even though it's likefrom what the 80s 97,.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I think, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
It was still kind of relevant now and we all just
wanted to do it justice forMatthew as well, you know, like
we wanted to do a good job forhim as well.
I think it was kind of like areally driving part and there
was like so many like actorswith such big hearts as well.
It was a really good one whereI was like, oh, this is what it
feels like to workcollaboratively and have so much

(06:45):
trust in the people that you'reworking with as well.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was so special.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, it was a really special time.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
What were you doing around that time?

Speaker 1 (06:51):
So I was in, like I was at MAPS, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
A MAPS girl.
I was a MAPS girl so I wasthere like five days a week and
then we were rehearsing threedays a week and then I think I
had to miss a day or two on likesome of the short films we were
working on, because I was atrehearsal.
Because at the start of theyear I was like, oh, I can kind

(07:15):
of skip a few rehearsals and Ican still do film at the same
time.
But for this one I was like no,I've got to be there at every
rehearsal, I've got to beamongst this.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
And it was nice.
Well, it was kind of impossiblenot to be at all the rehearsals
because, chances were, you werein one of the scenes because
you're playing so manycharacters.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
How many?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
characters did you play?

Speaker 1 (07:35):
I think it was about seven.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
I think we all had like seven each right.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and I think it also like knowing
what else is happening, becauseit's all happening in the town,
you know, like you kind of wantto know the story of what else
and how it's affecting otherpeople, and then like, because
you'll have certain scenes withcertain people and then it's
kind of nice to know what theirbackstory is as well.
Yeah, but yeah, so it was likea lot that like I was doing a
lot, like I mean, everythingfeels important, but it was like

(07:59):
that one in particular.
I felt very grounded and likenone of us got paid to do that
you know like we all just did itfor the love of theatre and the
love of like working with otherpeople and trying to say
something important.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Do you remember the last show?

Speaker 1 (08:13):
I wish I could say yes, but I don't Really Remind
me remind me.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I just remember the feeling coming up to the last
scene of the show, yeah, and onstage I just remember thinking
like, oh, this is it this?
To the last scene of the show,yeah, and on stage I just
remember thinking like, oh, thisis it, this is the last time we
get to tell this story andwhatever I needed to sort of
access there, it was purely thefact that I was sad about the
show finishing and I kind oflike, I kind of side-eyed a few

(08:41):
people on the stage and I couldsee in their eyes they were like
fuck it's nearly over you knowthat bond that we all had, I
think.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Man, I've been like chasing that ever since.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think that.
Yeah, kind of like how you saidearlier, like because it's the
last theatre show I did, I waslike I don't know if I can jump
into another one that I don'tfeel so connected with, and I
think you don't have to beconnected that deeply with
everything that you do.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
No, but like fuck, it's really nice, but it's so
special when you find something,a project like that and an
ensemble like that.
Yeah, the whole experience wasnot just fun but just like
special for all of us, I think.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Was the Laramie Project, the first theatre show
that you did, because I rememberyou hadn't been acting for a
while, right?

Speaker 2 (09:27):
And then you came back in.
I don't think I'd done a playfor like 10 years.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Which none of us could really believe, Like.
I feel like it was one of thosethings that I kept on feeling
like no, no, no, this guy's waytoo good, there's no way.
He's like yeah, I took a bit ofa break.
I can't use this part you didvery well and you're incredible.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
You're incredible.
Well, I didn't tell you that,so you can tell me I'm
incredible.
Okay, I'm going to take thecompliment.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, just take it.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
That's very nice.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
But you know, it was like one of those things where I
remember, because there was afew people in our ensemble that
were like I'd heard of or seenact before and you were like
this person.
That kind of came in.
It was like who?

Speaker 2 (10:08):
the fuck is this guy?
It's me I'm ready to be the bigshort actor here, and then we
saw you act.
We were like, fuck, okay, he'san asshole, but he's good but
he's got it you can't find himlike that anymore um, I hadn't
done a play in 10 years, but I'ddone stuff.

(10:29):
I'd done some film.
I think I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
But film and theatre is so different I don't know
what the fuck, I was doingaround that time I was lost.
Yeah, 2020.
That's why I went back totheatre, wasn't it a?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
COVID thing for you, because I mean we'd just come
out like the world was kind ofstarting to open up again, yeah.
You know, actually just beforeCOVID I was thinking about doing
some theatre and I think IGoogled like amateur theatre

(11:01):
Adelaide.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
And Red Phoenix came up and I can't remember what
show it was.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Blue Stockings, blue Stockings, yeah, which I was in.
You were in that, yeah, yeah,yeah.
No way.
That was earlier in the year,so there was Blue Stockings in
like I want to say April-ish2021.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Oh, okay, and then?

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Laramie Project was what?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
November, I think they auditioned people for it in
2020, before COVID happened,cause I can't really remember
this, but like when I I checkedmy emails and there was like a
whole lot of back and forthbetween, like, red Phoenix and
me and I was obviously trying toset up an audition, but it
never happened.
And then COVID happened and Ithought, oh, it's just, that's

(11:41):
the end of that.
But I don't know, like, afterCOVID happened and like you know
, I was just a mess for a while,laramie Project came up and I
was like, okay, I'm going to dothis, I'm going to get back into
theatre, and yeah, it was thebest thing ever.
But also between, for that 10years, I don't even know what
play I'd done, maybe high school.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, yeah, wow.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, yeah, probably my last play was when I was 18
in high school.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, wow, you just ran back into it.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, just jumped back in.
You did good Thanks man.
So okay, and then what?
So you did Laramie Project.
You were studying at MAPS.
What were you focusing on atMAPS?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
I wanted to try everything.
So my plan was because,basically so I'd spent like four
years doing my psych degree.
So I not to brag, but I have abachelor's in psychological
science.
Really, yeah, no way.
So I did that for like fouryears and then I was meant to
travel in 2020 and then thatdidn't happen.
So I just ended up working andI kind of got back into theater

(12:44):
because I was like I don't knowwhat I'm doing with my life.
And then my psych was like,well, what brings you joy?
And I was like, I don't knowwhat did you bring you joy?
And I was like, oh, I guess Iliked acting.
So I just kind of like starteddoing it, like and doing stuff
with Red Phoenix yeah anyway.
so then I went into maps becauseI was like I still have this
thing in the back of my headabout doing something in film

(13:06):
and I remember one film inparticular.
So what we do in the shadows ismy favorite film of all time.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's Taika Waititi.
Yeah, like the vampires, yeah,yeah, incredible, so funny.
It's a mockumentary aboutvampires living in New.
Zealand.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, and it's just like that came out.
What 2014?
And.
I was like oh, this is the kindof film that I'd want to make,
kind of thing, whereas before Iwas like I don't know whatever.
But then I kind of like saidthat's a pipe dream, I can never
do that.
And then after 2020, I was likeI'm going to give film a go for

(13:40):
a year and Maps was like areally good way that you could
practically kind of understandwhat it was going to be like in
the industry, because you'relike doing 20 films yeah within
the year and it's alloverlapping and it's like you
can have a go at almost anythingand you can kind of like it's
just all run and gun.
It's not theory, yeah it's verypractical yeah yeah but I was
like I do a year of that andthen I just kind of didn't stop

(14:01):
yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, yeah so where did you go from MAPS?
You did one year, then One year, yeah, okay, so where did?
You go from that.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, I mean, what did I do?
I feel like I just kind of keptmaking films.
I kept on because I directed acouple times, wrote a couple
times, but I really found thatproducing was where my brain
worked the best, because I waslike I'd much prefer to help
somebody else like achieve theirgoal in a way, and it's, you

(14:30):
know, it is my goal as well.
But it's like I'd much ratherdeal with the straight line A to
B and like this is what'sachievable kind of vibe.
So I've just kind of been doingthat.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
So you like the problem solving aspect?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, I love that and I love yeah, just kind of like
putting all the puzzles piecestogether and achieving something
that you don't think you mighthave otherwise been able to,
because I don't feel the need tolike.
Like there's certain stories inmy life that I'm like I don't
feel the need to tell it, likeyou know, whereas some people
like really like I have, I'mreally excited to tell this

(15:06):
story and all this kind of stuffand I think similarly with,
like the Laramie project, I wasexcited to help tell that story
through those characters, kindof thing or like help explain
something, and I think producingfor me is like I'm helping
other people tell their stories.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, okay, yeah, facilitating that for them.
Yeah, their stories, yeah, okay, yeah, facilitating that for
them, yeah, yeah, that's reallycool.
But did you do you think thatyour acting experience has
helped you a lot with yourproducing, because you
understand the other, the sortof other approach to well, the
other angle, you know?
Because, someone is someone'scoming at it from a really
creative side and then producersare coming from it still

(15:42):
understanding the creative side,but from a more, you know,
analytical, or yeah yeah, no,that's kind of it, I think.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
More than anything, I think I've found working as an
assistant director, I couldsympathise more with the actors.
True which was really good andit was like I've.
I'm sorry, it was really good.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
You were really good.
I was really good, I was reallygood.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, I'm sure you were but it was one of those
things where, like um, I think,especially coming from theater,
where, like you know everything,you've worked on it for three
months, you know exactly what'sgoing on, all that kind of stuff
.
And then seeing actors in filmwhere it's like they've come
onto set, they might have nevermet the director before they,
they might have not been able toplay with the character, with
the director, all this stuff.
They don't know what shotswe're doing.

(16:26):
They don't know a whole lot ofstuff.
And so, as an assistant director, I'm always trying to tell the
actors what's going on.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, which is so important.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah.
Because the director yes, if youcan develop a nice relationship
with the director and they havethe time for all that, that's
like a holiday yeah, yeah therelationship you have with the
ad is so, it's so essential andthey they just make such a big
difference to, to the vibe on aset you know and I'm sure you,

(16:59):
you are awesome on a set as anad I'm sure you make everyone
feel very comfortable well,that's the point and I kind of
feel that as an AD and aproducer, I'm like what I try to
do is like deal with all thelogistics so that the director
and the actors can play and sothat they can feel that they're
in this world and they can justplay in that world more than

(17:20):
anything else and they don'thave to think about that kind of
stuff, like tell them you know,know the logistics of what's
happening, we're setting up forthis shot, that's why we're
waiting, all that kind of stuff.
But it's just like the more thatpeople can like indulge in the
story and, like you know, havehave that freedom to just yeah.
It brings me a lot of joy whenpeople are able to to kind of

(17:42):
relax because they they feelthat they're in a space where
they're being trusted, respectedand they have a good
understanding of what's going onand that they have the time to
be able to ask questions and tobe able to like, yeah, talk to
the director about what theywant and what they can achieve
together as well.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I think is so important, oh man that is so
important, yeah, just knowingthat they have someone to go to,
that they feel safe to talk to,and just setting up that safe
environment for anyone thatyou're in contact with on a set,
and especially actors, because,yeah, especially for, like, day
players or even extras.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
And then, conversely, people that are less
experienced, that haven't beenon many sets, knowing that
there's someone there that theycan feel safe to approach and
ask the dumb questions.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, it makes a huge difference.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Because how are you meant to strip all the anxieties
away if you know, and and movepast that and get, get along
with the actual job which isconnecting to your character and
, you know, being present in thescene?
That's really all you want tobe focusing on, and there are so
many other elements that youdon't expect, like all the

(19:01):
practical things and theblocking and all the waiting,
you know, and the unsurefeelings and everything.
But yeah, having a good ADthere Is that kind of your.
Is that what you're pursuing atthe moment?

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I kind of like I like to do a bit of both, because I
think I love producing and AD.
Yeah, yeah, I like being able todo both, because ADing you're
more amongst everything andyou're talking to all the
departments a lot and you'rekind of like like I love being
on set and I love being amongstand knowing everything that's
going on, but I also loveproducing and when I've been

(19:39):
able to create a like have areally good team where I can
kind of step back and just youknow put out fires as I team,
where I can kind of set back andjust you know put out fires as
I come up, and that kind ofthing yeah is really nice, and
then I can be a bit of agoofball on set yeah, I love to
do yeah, it's one of my favoritethings sometimes to just like
be a bit of a menace.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
But yeah sometimes a bit too much but you gotta have
fun where it's appropriate, youknow?
Yeah, definitely, and that'spart of making people feel
comfortable as well because itcan get quite serious and hectic
, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, which is, I think there's such a line
between, like, you want to takeyour work seriously, but you
also want to remember that we'renot saving lives at the same
time.
You know, because I thinkeveryone on a film set is always
trying to do the best that theycan to do their job in the best
way possible.
Yeah, and I always try to leadwith that.

(20:29):
Even if, like, someone's takinga long time to do something,
I'm like they're just trying todo their job in the best way
possible, you know.
And it's like how can we allwork together to help each other
out to do that, to help eachother out to do that?

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, but you're kind of sitting back and you're
observing everyone and makingsure that everyone is given the
space to do their job right.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Because when you're in it and you're working on one
thing, you're only focused onthat one thing.
But to have someone sort ofstanding back and facilitating
everyone and making sure theyall get the same space is so
important.
Sets can be intense, I think,yeah, because they they can be
kind of, um, they can definitelybe intimidating if you're not
experienced, but I think for me,like understanding that

(21:20):
everyone is focusing on theirjob, they're not being rude yeah
, yeah, they're just working,you know and they all feel the
same.
They all feel probably just asterrified as the the next person
, um, but they all have a job todo and so not everyone's going

(21:41):
to come in and hold your handand be like okay, welcome.
I mean, people are very lovely.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
ADs are great, you know, and you know nah, people
are sweet.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
But sometimes it can be intimidating.
And I observe like other actors, like if it's their first time
on a set, or extras, are verylike what do I do?
What do I do?
But just knowing that everyonefeels like that, everyone's a
little bit lost and intimidated,especially at first, and
everyone's nervous and scared.
We're all shitting ourselves,you know.

(22:14):
But you know finding solidarityamongst your peers, you know
extras tend to gather together.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
And do we call them extras anymore?
I think we do.
Okay, gather together, yeah,yeah, and do we?

Speaker 1 (22:26):
call them extras anymore.
I think we do.
Okay cool, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I thought they changed to like background
actors or something.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Oh, no, maybe they do .
I was an extra recently for thefirst time, oh, really I saw
you.
You don't remember the oneconversation we had recently, a
period.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
See, okay, but that's the thing like when you're on a
set like the day is such a blur.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, I did bump into you on that tv series and that
was so nice you look great.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
All the costumes are awesome yeah, yeah it was really
cool really cool to wear that,and it was interesting being
amongst a lot of like uh, freshactors as well, and seeing what
their experience was being onset and a lot of them cared so
much about the project and somuch Like often, like people
think that extras are justtrying to get their big break

(23:14):
and they just, and you know, youget people like that, who are
just like you know, like I don'tknow.
Try to get as much screen timeas possible?

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I know, which is kind of funny they shuffle to
the front.
Yeah, You're like.
Yeah, it's not about you, man,but you look good.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
But there were so many people and I feel like I
like to think this is a bit ofan Adelaide thing.
Like, I think Adelaide sets arereally lovely and everybody
cares a lot and you tend to weedout the arseholes pretty easily
, but it was interesting seeingall these extras that just
really cared so much about, likeeven just the continuity and
they were like trying to be ontop of the continuity so much

(23:51):
and like they would be like, oh,I need I should ask um, like
the ad, this I should, and likeincredible ads that had all the
patients in the world and it wasyeah.
So many of them were like, oh,but the continuity isn't quite
right.
Here I was was like we'll beokay.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's fine, they'll tell us where to go.
Everyone, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
It's really good of them to like be aware of that
continuity, because that reallyis, like I'd say, the main part
of the job, 100% as a backgroundextra.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Because the ADs are not going to pick up on all of
that, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
No, yeah, when there's a hundred of them,
they're not going to be outthere.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, make sure you're doing the same thing in
each of the takes.
Yeah, that's really good, andif you're at that point when
you're getting work as an extra,you just want experience on a
set, it's a great opportunitybecause you have a front row
seat to the action.
Yeah, and if I was.
I mean I did extras work when Iwas younger, like when I was a

(24:53):
teenager, and that was myopportunity to just observe,
like how a set was run.
Don't make it about you, justwatch and do your job.
You know, yeah, yeah, I alwayssay, like, with extras work,
someone says like, how do I getit?
How do I get into film?
I might start as an extra, geton a film set and the two rules
as an extra, but the rules aredon't look at the camera and do

(25:16):
as you're told and do as you'retold.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, yeah it's pretty straightforward it's
pretty straightforward it wasmore exhausting than I thought
it would be.
Yeah, um, because there waslots of standing around, a lot
of like you don't know what'sgoing on, so you're ready the
whole time.
Yeah, I think extra work it'snot valuable as an actor to
learn how to act, but it'svaluable to understanding how
film sets work and I think, ifyou're going into an extra role,

(25:40):
thinking this is going to helpme become a better actor.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
No, it's not the place to learn how to act no no.
It's just a front row seat.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, which is so valuable, even like, as, like
an AD producer, I was like thisis so valuable to understand
how this is all, how everythingis moving together, because a
lot of it was like what I'vealready done, just on a bigger
scale.
Yeah.
But it was, yeah, really niceto be able to sit back and
actually watch it rather thanlike, because usually if I'm on
a set I've got all theseresponsibilities, whereas for

(26:11):
this.
I'm just sitting around and I'mlike oh, they look stressed.
Yeah, I wonder why they'restressed.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, not my problem.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Not my problem, but I'll stand and walk wherever you
need me to stand and walk andI'll try to explain to the other
extras what's going on so thatyou don't have to.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, See, there's that solidarity.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's so good.
If you're doing extras work,you're going to be feeling quite
nervous because it's probablyone of your first sets.
I guess, I don't know, thereare people that do it like for a
living right.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
I mean when there's enough work going around, I mean
it's not bad.
It's not bad work to just, youknow, every now and then just be
around on a set.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
And also all those extras that you meet.
You know you'll all startmoving up together and gaining
more experience together and youbuild a nice community.
Yeah, yeah, and you take thatcommunity to the next sort of
step of that career.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
And next thing you'll be doing, you know, big scenes
together.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I feel like for me as well, just like, I mean,
there's some extras that arejust like retired people, that,
like you know, they're just likeI'll do this for a day, or,
like you know, people who aren'tnecessarily actors but are like
I'll be a body for a day.
You know, aren't necessarilyactors, but are like I'll be a
body for a day.
You know that's fine, but Ithink for me as well, seeing
because I'm helping out with ashort film at the moment and we
had just put out auditions.
So so then I got to see allthese people that had been

(27:33):
emailing me recently and I waslike this is nice to be able to
work with you for three daysbecause, I think a part of
getting roles is also are yougoing to be a nice person to
work with, not just are you thebest actor in the room.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (27:48):
like, do I?
Want to spend 12 hours a day.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
People don't understand how big of a thing
that is.
Like, yeah, are you a niceperson, are you reliable, are
you going to?
Yeah, are you going to beprofessional?

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, I think and also like, weirdly enough and it
didn't really happen too muchbut every now and then, like I'd
hear conversations from peoplewhere I was like you don't have
enough sympathy to the peopleworking here.
You know it was a bit of oh,this isn't done well, this isn't
done well, this was better.
On another shoot I was on and Iwas like cool, I don't like

(28:25):
that mentality becauseeveryone's like kind of going
back to my thing, where, likeeverybody's here trying to do
the best that they can with whatthey're given right.
So it's like if you have anextra going like they're not
doing enough here and I'm gonnatell you how it's better on this
other set.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Just not be on this set, if you want literally just
go yeah, yeah, you can go.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Nobody's forcing you to.
If you don't want to be here,you don't have to be here and I
was like, okay, cool, I'm gonnaput that in the back of my brain
.
If you're gonna audition for me, I'm gonna hope that you have
like a better attitude towardsthe crew who are all working
their asses off.
Yeah, you know, like it's likeI know everybody's working hard,
like you're that actual wasworking really hard and they did

(29:04):
a great job.
But it's like don't forget thateverybody else is also working
really hard.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Don't come onto a set and and point out all the flaws
on the set there's, there'salways going to be something
yeah yeah, there's going to beissues that someone is dealing
with in the background that youdon't know about.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Don't come on and complain about what's yeah, and
I think, especially if you'relike coming into like smaller
budget productions at least forme I try to the vibe on set is
one of the most important things, because the last thing I want
to have is people regrettingcoming onto a set, especially if
they're not being paid orthey're not being paid a lot.

(29:40):
Then it's like the least that Ican try to give people is a
good time on set and feel likethey're valued, their work is
valued and they're proud of whatthey're doing.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, Especially with those small budget things.
People come onto it thinkingthey're going to get a trailer
or something and they're goingto get treated like Leonardo
DiCaprio or something.
You know, just be grateful thatyou're part of something.
We're all in this because weare passionate about the project
and we are all figuring it outtoo.

(30:11):
Still, you know, we're alllearning, always.
You know, even though we'reprofessionals, we are still
learning.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
One thing that I kind of keep in mind is that, even
as the budgets get bigger,there's still never enough money
, you know, in a way becauseyou're trying to stretch the
budget as much as you can andit's like, okay, there's a bit
of good budget, but we're doingbigger stunts or something Like
there's always.
You always feel like like everydepartment could always do with
a little bit of something else,or a little bit of something you

(30:38):
know so it's this weird thingwhere, like, even though things
get bigger, it still feels likewe're all just kind of learning
and like working with what we'vegot.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Even if what?

Speaker 1 (30:48):
we've got is a better camera than what we had last
week.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
We're still working with the same creative problem
solving that you would in asmaller budget you know if that
kind of makes sense?
Yeah for sure.
I think the mentality is nomatter what your position is on
a set, if you're an actor orpart of the crew, everyone is
making a film.
Like we're all making a film.
You are a filmmaker.

(31:12):
If you're an actor, you're partof that filmmaking process, you
know.
So come into it with themindset of solving problems, not
finding problems.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
That's a T-shirt.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, we'll put that on a mug.
You can buy that on our website.
It's a big mug.
It's a big mug, I think.
Yeah, there are people thatcome on and point out the flaws
in a set, and sometimes thereare flaws in a set.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Not sometimes.
There always is, there's alwaysgoing to be flaws.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
There's always like.
There's politics, there'sbitchiness.
You know, it's all there.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Don't be part of that shit.
Just go in and solve theproblems that you're able to
solve.
Stay in your lane, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It's very important to um, yeah, and.
I think being grateful as well,and it sounds weird like
sometimes it's really fuckinghard and you don't want to feel
grateful like I totally get that.
You're allowed to like beannoyed about certain things on
set, but I think like Iconstantly try to be grateful
that I'm able to to do somethingin the industry and that you
know I'm able to do it with suchan incredible team as well.

(32:22):
I think you kind of look aroundyou and you're like we're all
able to be here and that's kindof incredible.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
And you know what you're getting out of it, though
, like there's a reason whyyou're working some jobs for
free and you don't do everythingfor free.
I know that, but there arecertain things you're like.
Okay, I understand what thisproject is.
I understand that it's a verylow budget and everyone's doing
this for nothing and I don'thave to do it.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Very true.
That's actually a really goodthing to remember.
You don't have to do that.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
And, yes, set a standard for yourself.
But I'm a little bit flexiblewith that because I do a lot of
student films and I do a lot ofthings for free because I'm
meeting the community and I getto try things that maybe I would

(33:22):
feel less comfortable trying ona higher stakes project.
But then my standards are alsoif you're going to hire me for a
commercial, you better bloodypay me.
And if I know there's a massivebudget on a project and you're
hiring me for my acting services, you know I'm not doing that
shit for free, but they wouldn'tdo that anyway.
You know what I mean.

(33:42):
So yeah it is aboutunderstanding what each project
is and what we're all in it for.
You know, we, we, just we likemaking things yeah, you know and
the way it works in australiais not the way it works in
Australia is not the way itworks in the US.
You know there are no budgetshere.
We are scrounging to getfunding for anything.

(34:03):
Yeah yeah.
So if you want to createopportunities for yourself to
make things, expect that you'renot going to make any money out
of it.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Know your standards.
You know, understand yourstandards.
Respect yourself.
Don't let people walk all overyou, don't you know?
If you don't want to do favorsfor people, don't do them, but
understand what you're gettingout of that project.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, I think it's.
It's really good to be able to,um, yeah, have that mentality
of I'm choosing to do thisproject, not I have to do this
project.
You're like okay, these are thereasons why I'm gonna be here
yeah, and this is like you knowwhere your line is, like, okay,
I'll do this commercial, but I'mnot gonna do it if I'm not
gonna get paid x amount, youknow.
Or I'll do this project becauseI want to work with these

(34:50):
people, because there's timesthat you're like shooting
outside in the rain.
You're like I fuck, what am Idoing here?
You know know, like I've askedmyself on set so many times what
am I doing here?
And if you've thought about ita little bit beforehand, you can
be like, oh yeah, no, that'swhy I'm here.
No, I remember now.
No, it's okay, and I cancontinue.
And you can kind of go into itwith a good attitude, because

(35:10):
you know, sometimes it justtakes a few little like everyone
having a shit day and theneverybody, you know it just
seeps into everybody.
It spreads yeah.
You know, and it's like if youcan just try to keep everybody,
yeah, it's such a.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, you can set the tone.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah, if it starts to shift.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
You can, you know, just maintain that positive
energy, you know, yeah, yeah,I'm not going to let that happen
.
I'm here because I love it andit's a privilege to be able to
do this.
Yeah, even for free.
Even for free, yeah Like howlucky we are to be able to.
This is how we spend our sparetime.
Even this like this is justlike incredible that we're able

(35:46):
to do this yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Awesome, very lucky Do you have anything that's like
like the reason why you act oryou make films or, you like, do
podcasts.
Is there something about theindustry?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
that like is the reason why you do it.
Well, there's a reason why I doit.
Acting is something I foundthat I latched onto because I
got so much fulfillment out ofit.
Okay, as a, when we're kids, weplay, play right, and then at
some point along that, along our, in our lives, we forget to

(36:23):
play, we stop playing and wework and we go to the pub and
drink and that's our play right.
And for so long I was just kindof lost in that, in that void
of like what the fuck do I dofor enjoyment?
I don't know what I'd likeanymore.
And, yes, there were, therewere moments where I like played
music full time and that wasreally, really fun and
fulfilling.

(36:43):
But when I stopped singingbecause I had some vocal issues,
then I was really like I don'tknow who I am anymore because I
didn't have a creative outletand I also didn't have a
community.
And then I worked for manyyears like in banks and I worked
at TAFE SA and I worked in awarehouse for three years and I
left those jobs when I didLaramie Project and I started my

(37:05):
own business so I could beflexible and free to take on
acting work and I quit drinkingfive years ago.
Fuck yeah, it lines up exactlywhen I started Laramie Project.
But I found something that Ican obsess over.
But I feel so fulfilled doingthis and I am absolutely

(37:26):
obsessed with it.
It's all that goes through myhead all the time and I started
the podcast because I want totalk about it all the time and I
might as well film it, you know.
But also it was a chance for meto play again and be creative
and meet friends.
I think, for, I don't know, fora few years, I don't, I don't
think I could name a friend doyou know what I mean.

(37:46):
Like I was, just you kind of geta bit lost as an adult, like
you don't remember how to justconnect with people unless you
go drinking yeah, yeah, that'ssuch a good point and then it's
not a real connection, no, butfinding something that you
really are passionate about, orfinding something that allows
you to be authentic around otherpeople, um, that was huge for

(38:09):
me.
So that's why I do it, because Ijust really like we're.
We're all on this journeytogether and we're all sort of
getting the same thing out of it.
I think so we all have that.
We all have so many things incommon and we're all sort of
getting the same thing out of it.
I think so we all have that.
We all have so many things incommon and we're all just as
deluded as each other, yeah it'sthe group delusional.
Yeah, yeah, yeah but now Ireally like if I didn't have

(38:30):
this, I don't know.
That scares me a lot.
And now ai scares the shit outof me because I I watch a video
of like vo3 and I'm like noone's asked for this shit yeah,
yeah, I'm like I, I need this.
Don't take this away from me.
But then I think about, like,if I compare that to the music
industry, and there's shittyfactory pop music out there that
exists and it hasn't replacedreal music, you know.

(38:54):
So you can watch fake videos ifyou want, but I don't think the
general population is going totake that on, you know yeah,
there's always gonna.
You can't replace like theateryou know, yeah no, literally
yeah, yeah, yeah, but it scaresthe shit out of me because I
don't, I can't, I can't havethis taken away from me no, yeah

(39:14):
, no, I get what you mean.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, I think there's always going to be something
that like, because people canlike tell the difference between
like a vinyl record and a CD.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
you know, like you can, you can't really.
It's a size yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Oh, that's what it is .
Yeah, I thought it wassomething else.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
You ever try to play a vinyl on a CD player?

Speaker 1 (39:34):
It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
That's where you know you've.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Oh, okay, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
And that's how you work out, cause you can't work
it out before then, there's noway to compare it.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
There's no way to know.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
But then you put it next to it and you're like oh,
this isn't why, okay, but I dothis.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Because I do this?
Because, like, I found acommunity, like it's giving me
something that I like if youfind something that you're
really passionate about andyou're privileged enough to be
living in the country where thatis possible.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Do it 100% yeah.
I mean, I found something thatI really love and I didn't know
what things I loved for a longtime, you know.
So I've latched on to thisthing that I really love and I'm
around the people that I reallylove and I feel so lucky to
have found that, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, I remember it was like a concept that I hadn't
even thought of before, wheremy mum had said something about
how like she was, and it wasn'tlike a jealousy, but it was just
like an acknowledgement of likeshe's not someone that really
found her passion in life.
And that's not to mean thatshe's like sad or anything like
that.
She just she did a job that shecould do with people that she

(40:52):
liked, but she never hadanything that she's like.
I'm deeply passionate aboutthis thing and that's going to
be my career and that's going tobe all this kind of stuff.
And she was like it's reallycool when people find that, and
I was like, fuck, that is likeit's special to be able to find
that, and not only is itsomething that you're passionate
about, but something thatyou're capable of doing because
of your circumstances of doing,because of your skill set as

(41:14):
well you

Speaker 2 (41:14):
know, like a two, a two, two but you care about it
and that's why you want to getbetter at it.
Like I want to do it, and so Ihave to get good at it yeah,
yeah, because otherwise I can'tdo it.
Yeah, but even, even still, youcan.
You can do it at any level youcan do you?
Can do a play and just likehave fun that's all but still
enjoy, enjoy the community andenjoy like putting yourself out

(41:36):
there and having a go atsomething you know.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
I just I'm obsessed with like doing this.
I'm like I have to get prettygood at it.
I think you know to be able tosort of stay in it.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
And you have to be okay with being not good at it
to start off with and kind of gothrough that.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
I saw some like quote from like Bill Hader recently.
That was like something aboutacting is really embarrassing
and any form of art is reallyembarrassing yeah you kind of?
Have to get past that.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
And then you can do some really cool stuff it's very
, it is very embarrassing, soembarrassing, this is
embarrassing yeah, I'membarrassed for you.
You're embarrassed, you shouldbe yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
No, I'm deeply embarrassed.
No, but it is.
It's this kind of vulnerablething exposing you.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
If you can get through that and understand that
, yes, this is going to feelweird and it's going to feel
embarrassing and all thosethoughts are going to be there.
If you can get through those,though, once you've done it and
you've made something, peoplewill go that was cool, man, and
you'll be like, thank god,because it felt awful you know

(42:46):
it felt awkward and embarrassingand I didn't know if it was
right I remember I had anactress come in for an audition
once and um we were going forthe second.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Like you know, the actor comes in with what they
give a go with a role and then,the director gives notes.
And then the director was likeokay, cool, like have you got
those, you're happy to give itanother go?
And she was like, yeah, sure,we'll just see what happens kind
of thing and I was like that'ssuch a good mentality to have,
because it was like I'm going totake it on, but I'm also

(43:18):
relinquishing some level ofcontrol in a way where it's just
like we're just going to seewhat happens and if it's what
you want, it's what you want.
If it's not, then I'm just notthe right person for it, kind of
.
Thing because I think so much ofacting like people think that
they have to be the best actorin the room but that's such as
not a small amount of it.
But that's one part of gettinga role, and keeping that role is

(43:39):
being a good actor, whereas Ithink the other part of it is
what you naturally bring to itand what you look like.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, I don't think they are always going for the
best actor though, no.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Good casting directors aren't going for the
best actor.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
They're going for who's right for that role and
whatever circumstances fitaround that role.
You know like you might not beright for a role right now but
at another point in your lifeyou are yeah because, you can
access whatever it is.
You need access for that person.
You know, if you can empathizewith that person at this time in

(44:15):
your life, with yourexperiences so far you know then
you might be right for it.
But, at other points, like Imean, I didn't act for like 10
years because I wasn't able toyou know, yeah, yeah.
I was not in the rightheadspace to be able to access
any of that.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Because, for whatever reason you know, yeah, and I
think it's like, whatever yourexperiences are and what you're
going for and how that um it,whether you'll bring it,
consciously or unconsciously, umwhether that's what the
director is looking for or not.
I mean, they might not eventhink they're looking for
something, and then you might,for whatever reason, because

(44:56):
you've been able to accesssomething or because you have
been through whatever.
You naturally bring that withyou and they don't know what it
is, but they're like that'sperfect for that role.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
They're looking for something real.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
And if you can bring something real, then you might
surprise them, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I think they want to be surprised with authenticity.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I think being a to be surprised
with authenticity.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yes, you know.
Yeah, yeah, I think being a bitcomfortable as well is always
helpful, or is it?
There's this I feel like I keepquoting people now, but Jason
Bateman has a quote that he usesa lot on the Smart List.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Oh, I know what it is .

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Sexy indifference.
That's the one.
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
I was almost going to say it at the same time, but I
got embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
We could have had a Connor Paulinger moment.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
And then I thought what I know, and I was like I'm
going to get it mixed up, I'mgoing to say indifference.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
I was like that's not right, indifference except see
yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, but that's it, like.
It's just like.
I think that's the samementality of like oh we'll see
what happens, or you know, likeyou said, like being able to
play, that we haven't been ableto do that since we were kids
like it's that kind of sexyindifference of like, I'm just
gonna see what happens, I'mgonna see what I can bring, but
I'm, um, yeah, not gonna be tooin my head about it yeah kind of

(46:10):
thing I think it's a reallygood mentality to have and means
that I think as well, like ifyou bring that to an audition,
you, you're going to bring thatto the day.
Yeah, because I think, in a way,you want to put in a lot of
work into your roles, right,because you can tell the
difference between someone who'screated a whole backstory and
someone who has just read thesurface level of what a

(46:33):
character is going to be Like.
There's always a lot of workthat goes into it.
I think there's also, naturally, what you bring in, what you
bring to the role.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
So I think I think everyone works in a different
way, and some on some jobs andfor some people you need to
spend a bit more time on it, youknow, and learn more about this
person that you're trying tofigure out you know yeah
definitely, and other times youcan just rely on instincts, you

(47:02):
know.
But I work very differently to alot of other people and we all
do.
You know Some people really puton a lot of, put in a lot of
analytical work and when I dothat it does help, you know, and
sometimes you're given a lot ofbackstory that's not even going

(47:23):
to be shown in the narrativebut it's there and it does help.
But it's communication from,like, the writer or the director
, like this is who this personis.
You know we're not going toshow any of this in the story,
but it's just going to help you.
So, whatever happens on the dayday, you're coming at it from
the right angle.
You know what?
I mean yeah, yeah but, yeah,have trying to trying to control

(47:45):
it too much is is wherepeople's I don't know, I don't,
I think, I really don't want tobe, I don't want to tell people
how to do it, you know, becauseit is so different for everyone
yeah, very true yeah, but yeah,I feel I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
I just have this like thing of where I see actors go
for roles that I'm like I seethem setting themselves up for
failure.
You know, in a way, and I seethese actors that could be
fantastic but they just keepputting themselves up for roles
that I don't think are perfectfor them.
If you can understand who youare and what you're doing, I

(48:21):
think naturally bringing that Ikeep coming back to this because
it's like there's only so muchacting that you can do.
You know, in a way where it'slike you can have all of that
work behind you and it's neverwasted work.
But I think if you're puttingin all of this work for a role,
that is is just not going to beright for you.
Like I'd hate to see that withactors.

(48:42):
And then they like, why am I notgetting roles?
Why am I not succeeding?
And it's like you have thisavenue that you can succeed in,
but you're setting yourself upfor failure.
You know if they find what theycan do and whether their voice
is best translated or whatever.
I think everybody can do anincredible job and a lot of it
does have to do, I think, withhow you look, unfortunately.

(49:04):
But there's this Scottishactress that's like she always
gets these roles as a villainand as a witch and all this kind
of stuff, and there's thisquote from her where she's like
I was blessed with this facethat is great for these roles
and she's not mad about it.
She's not going to like, she'snot going to be the sweet person
in a lot of stuff, and it'skind of like you kind of have to

(49:28):
accept that, I think, and kindof go okay, this is, this is
where I'm gonna succeed the bestbecause, yeah, as an actor,
you're rejected so many timesit's, it's one of the, it's a
cliche, but you know that whole.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
You are enough kind of thing, you know, start with
yourself you know, yeah, yeah,because you can.
What they want is to see a realperson, and you are already a
real person you know?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
No, that's so true.
You don't have to try.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
I don't think you need to go too far beyond that
initially.
Well, I don't know ever.
I don't know what I'm talkingabout, but.
I bring myself to every singlerole, you know, even if it's
very different to who I am.
And yeah, I might not agreewith the characters' values, but

(50:10):
I could connect with how theygot there or relate it to
something else.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
That isn't so horrible, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah, yeah, Well, you know, I could understand what
it's like to feel lonely, andthat's why he's acting out
against these people.
Yeah, but that's me bringingmyself to that experience and
being like, okay, if this was mycircumstance, if this was my
education, I could understandwhat this might feel like, you

(50:35):
know.
Yeah, yeah, I don't have toagree with it.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, you don't have to like every character that
you're portraying, but you canunderstand them.
It doesn't mean you forgivethem, but you can have a level
of understanding to them, Ithink.
And allowing yourself to be alittle bit in that character,
especially when you've gotsomething like film acting,
where it's like it's reallyzeroed in on, it's like an X-ray

(51:00):
the lens.
The lens can see through, likeeverything in a way, if you
don't allow yourself to like,love yourself enough to be able
to have that scene, then you'realways going to have a level of
mask in your acting right.
Yeah.
So it's like you kind of haveto let a little bit of yourself
in and love yourself a littlebit, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, absolutely, If we talk about loving yourself.
That was a big shift for me,you know, and probably why I
couldn't do it for a while.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yeah, we don't have to go too deep on that, but you
know what I mean.
Like it was accepting yourself.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
That's not an easy boundary to get over for anyone.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
You know yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
It's such a journey, man, but I think the closer you
can get to even justunderstanding yourself, you know
we don't have to get to someplace of enlightenment to
express yourself in any sort ofartistic way.
Just understanding the way youwork at this point in your life.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, and accepting your flaws Until you're perfect
in your own eyes before you canstart something you know.
Yeah, accepting your flaws, Ithink is a big part of it, and
that yeah kind of yeah,understanding yourself and it's
like it's not something thatyou're going to wake up one day
and be like, oh I know myselfcompletely and now I can act.
It's just being able to kind ofcontinue to have that

(52:25):
conversation with yourself orsomething you know that you can
like continue on and like havesome sympathy for yourself, or
like, yeah, yeah, understandingit's caring for yourself and
yeah, understanding that.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Okay, today, today I'm anxious, because sometimes I
get anxious, so my dispositionneeds to be a little bit awkward
.
I might not be as talkativetoday.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
But that's okay because people get it.
And my other mode is like kindof manic and like hey, hey, it's
going on.
But I need to be like thattoday, yeah.
Yeah, because I feel okay ormaybe I'm masking something, but
just understanding my modes isis big for me and like if I'm,
if I'm in a social situation andI'm not feeling so talkative, I

(53:11):
can still be there and just belike, well, I might not talk as
much and I might just listentoday, but yeah, yeah, and I
might be really overbearing onthe next one.
You know, that's just meunderstanding how I, how I work.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
yeah, because you're not the same every day as well
and you've got to forgiveyourself for that as well, like.
I think for me.
Sorry, I feel like I'veinterrupted your thought, but no
, that was the end.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
That was the end, thank god.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
You interrupted um, because I have like this thing
about like sometimes um, when Imeet people at like networking
events or at like parties.
There's something about thatenvironment that generally I end
up being that like biggerpersonality or that like because
I do get a lot of energy frompeople.
So I kind of go into this mode.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
I'm like, oh there's this person and there's this
person.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
And then we're like, oh my God, that's the best idea
ever for her.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, I'm like that too in those situations, and
then I'd get in the car and I'mlike that too in those
situations, and then I'd get inthe car I'm like fucking calm
down, chris, like jesus, thatsounds great.
That sounds great yeah but youknow.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
But then like.
But then I get worried aboutlike oh, this is, if people
mostly see me in that mode,that's what they're gonna expect
.
And like even, um, in in like aworking environment, in like a
friendship, in a relationship orwhatever.
I'm just like I have to be thatall the time for them now, and
then you kind of have to go wait, no, I'm a fully fledged person
.
This is one mode.

(54:34):
I have other modes where I'mlike more anxious and it's just,
yeah, understanding a bit moreabout yourself, I think, is
always going to be helpful inany aspect of your life, that
you can kind of go okay, this iswhat we're feeling at the
moment.
I'm acknowledging that I'm, youknow, gonna act accordingly for
myself and also for otherpeople, that it's like your
emotions are always valid yeahbut it's what you do with that.
You know your behavior from that.

(54:55):
Like, if I go to a yeah, anetworking event, I'm like I'm
feeling really flat and I don'tthink I'm gonna be able to their
names and it's like okay, I'mgoing to acknowledge that I'm
like I'm having a low day, butI'm going to continue, and it
just means that, like I'm goingto ask people more questions so
I can listen more.

(55:16):
You know, Like you have abehavior that can help you get
through it kind of thing ratherthan being like well, I feel
shit, so people are going tohave to deal with me being shit
today.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
It Like well, I feel shit, so people are going to
have to deal with me being shittoday.
It's like well, I should behaving Imagine asking someone
about them.
Imagine that, imagine that Whoacrazy, wow Imagine being
curious about how someone elseis going Genuinely.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Genuinely, and then listening to their answer.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Sorry, I zoned out what.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Yeah, and then you listen to the hey and then, so
the other part is right thatyou're listening with your ear,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Okay, slow down.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
That was too many things.
But you are grateful to be inan industry where you have a
community yeah, yeah, and Ithink you know like there's so
many different areas of filmthat you can work in, and I've
made my peace with the fact thatI don't know exactly where I'll
end up yeah but I think I'llend up around people that I like
because you work it.

(56:20):
Yeah, like I said, like you'reworking so many hours, yeah, um,
I don't want such a big part ofmy life to be like you get to
the end of the day and you'relike thank God, I'm at my real
life now.
It's like no, the whole thingis meant to be your life?

Speaker 2 (56:34):
What else do you do?
What's your real job?

Speaker 1 (56:37):
My real job, the one that actually pays.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I love that question.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
I work in retail.
Don't say it like that, youhave a job.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
I have a job and I am grateful for that job.
I clean toilets.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Yeah yeah, not just toilets.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
That's the worst part , hey you clean a lot of things.
I'm good at it, you know, yeah,and it's like I am also
grateful for that job because Ican like yeah, I can do it
without thinking too much.
It's very flexible hours.
I get discounts on things likehard drives that I can buy for
film sets.
A hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
A hundred percent discount's great.
That's called stealing.
How often are you on a film set?

Speaker 1 (57:21):
I have a project like every two to three months.
I would say Early September isthe next time I'll be shooting.
Right.
And I might jump on other stuffin between, but that's the next
one.
I'm helping produce and I thinkAD as well.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
I'll have a time where I'm like, oh shit, I don't
have anything for the next twoor three months, but something
will come up.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yeah, so where can you go from here?
What?
Would that next sort of journeyor that next step look like.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I need to get on long form.
That's my goal for the year isto get on a long form where I'm
doing more than like a month orso.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Like as an AD or a producer.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Either really.
So I need to get either intothe production office, which
would be something to do withproducing, or as an AD, which
would probably be like a thirdor something.
I've been hired as like a fieldproducer on certain things,
which, um, has been helpful, butthat's very much more
commercial work.
But I think if you can kind ofweirdly market yourself on film
sets where you're just like,well it's, it's kind of weird to

(58:15):
put into conversation, butsometimes people are really
curious and if you're doing yourjob right, then they will want
to talk to you and they'll wantto see how they can utilize you
in the future.
And if you make it clear thatthis is where you want to be in
the future, then they'll atleast, that's my theory.
It's kind of hard to know ifthis is going to work, like I
feel like a lot of what I do islike taking um chances on people

(58:39):
, that like I'm almost likeinvesting in these projects
because I'm investing in thepeople as well and I'm like okay
, if this producer that'sco-producing with me, or this um
director or this dp, if theythen get opportunities, they'll
bring me with them.
Yeah, you know as well.
Or like it's always the morework I do, the more I know
people as well.
So it's like yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
That's the big thing with experience, isn't?
It because it's like.
You're building connections,you're networking on the job.
You know, because when you'rethere in it, when you're on set
or in the production office thatyou are, you're not just
keeping to yourself necessarily,you are authentically, you know
, having conversations withpeople and being curious about

(59:24):
what their goals are and sharingyour goals with them too, and
hopefully you can help eachother out down the track and
rise with the tide you know,without being a ladder climber
you know, yeah, yeah.
Are you in this for the rightreasons?

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Are you going to step on other people's toes to get
higher up the ladder?
You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
yeah, I had someone who I got on as a runner for the
short film we just did and Imet him for a day on that TV
show that I was an extra on.
I met him as the bus driver forall the extras.
Really.
Chatted to him for like five,ten minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
And then someone was like,because I was still trying to
find extras and Nicole Schoen,who we love, she was on set,

(01:00:10):
asking people being like whowants to be on this as an extra?
And all this kind of stuff,yeah, awesome.
This guy had emailed me andhe's like hey, happy to be an
extra, also happy to help outbecause I've been doing unit on
this thing.
And I was like I remember you.
Yeah, was like I remember you,yeah.
And I was like, oh, you had areally good vibe.
And I was like, yeah, no,definitely come on.
If you want to do extra days,I'll have you as a runner.
And like I was chatting to himand he was like, why did you

(01:00:31):
like trust me to, I'm like youjust you were nice you were nice
you were capable at your job,you were nice, I trusted you and
it was just like this weirdthing and you know, sometimes it
doesn't always work out perfect, but it's just like like that,
even just the five, ten minutesof interacting with someone and
seeing that they're on top oftheir shit and that they're nice
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Can do a lot for you, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
That's gold.
Thank you that was all gold.
Thank you Okay.
I'm not good at segues.
Okay, what's something I'vebeen.
How can we bring this up?
Do you have like a thing thatyou always end?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
on that.
You always ask everyone fortheir advice, or no?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
no, it's just, I want the advice to be organic, okay
I don't want to be the adviceguy and that's, but I was making
content which was just adviceyeah, and I haven't.
I didn't post any of it.
I made heaps of it yeah, yeahit's um.
You don't have all the answersI don't, and there's not one way
to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Yeah, very true, yeah .

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
And it's not my business to tell someone how
they go about it, because Ididn't follow any of the rules.
Very true actually I came at itfrom a different angle.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I think, like you said, like most things, where
you're like trying to givesomeone advice and you're trying
to help someone in the industrybecause I think you'll come
across it always like I think,whether it's on set, whether
it's out and about, where it's anetworking thing, everybody
wants to know advice and knowhow to do it yeah, yeah but I
think it's it.
I think it's just aboutgathering a bunch of information
and being like I'm gonna trysome of these totally and

(01:01:57):
whichever one works, works and Ithink the more that you just
understand everybody'sexperiences and how, how they
feel and how they, etc.
Etc.
It's like then you just kind ofwork out what works best for
you.
It's almost like when you getnotes on a script where you're
not just going to take the notesfrom one person and use them as
gospel.
You kind of get notes from abunch of different people and if

(01:02:17):
like 10 people all kind of havethis similar note, then you're
like maybe I'll take that one onboard.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
But you don't have to take on all of them.
No, then you're like, maybeI'll take that one on board,
yeah, but you don't have to takeon all of them.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
No, that's how I feel anyway, because it might not
register with you.
No, yeah, so you have likeadvice and then you pull from
that in the moment what youthink is going to work.
You know, you give yourself allthe tools to then be
spontaneous, be present and bemalleable with your goals and
malleable with where you'reheading, and just kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yeah, well, it's like there are so many different
schools of thought for acting.
You can learn about them all.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Yeah, and pick and choose.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Yeah, exactly, you might not even be aware that
you're picking something.
You're just True, you're justaccessing it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
So I mean I learned how to act because I listened to
a lot of podcasts.
Like that was honestly like andlike considering different
points of view, and then be likeright, I need a film set
because I want to try something.
I mean, I like acting advice,but I don't necessarily take it
all and same with direction.

(01:03:20):
Like if I have a conversationwith my director and they say
something to me that doesn't fitwith the way I work, it just
means the conversation needs tokeep going a little bit.
Okay, so what you're saying isthis this is sort of where we're
going with this, and then I'lltry to word it in the way that
works for me and if that alignswith their vision, you know,

(01:03:41):
then we're onto something.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
You know it's about figuring out what works for you,
understanding yourself again.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and thenyou can have a clear
communication on that and beingmalleable is really important
because everyone's going toapproach it differently and
every director is going to comeat it from a different angle.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Some directors might give you heaps and some might
give you nothing, and both arefine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Yeah yeah, there's so much unpredictability in the
arts, in working in a film set.
There's so much that's like youcan plan the perfect set in the
world, but something's alwaysgoing to change, you know.
So it's like, yeah, having thosetools ready so that you can be
malleable and you can beadaptable and be okay with that
and not too scared of that aswell yeah, I think it's really

(01:04:29):
good yeah, because because youdon't really have control over
it no, yeah, yeah, you got tolet go of a lot of control, I
think, um in working in anydepartment in film, because
there's only one, like certainaspects, that you can have an
impact on, and yeah um, I thinkbeing able to see it as like, as
something that you can have animpact on, and I think being
able to see it as something thatyou can have an element of

(01:04:49):
letting go, I think, kind offrees you to be able to play, to
be able to be adaptable, whereyou're like I don't know which
take they're going to use, butthat's okay, like I'm just going
to play and have a go and trustthat they're.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Give them options.
Yeah, yeah yeah, it frees youup from trying to get it right
and trying to control what thisthing is, because you might not
know the vision.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
The director is.
They might know it, or they'refiguring it out, or they might
figure it out in the edit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Yeah, yeah, might change.
That's what I was going to say,and you just don't have control
over any of that, and that'sfine.
Yeah, that's actually okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
It's very freeing, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Jazz.
This was really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
This was really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
So where can we find you on socials?

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
So you can find me at JJ Leachie, so JJ L-E-C-H-I-E
on Instagram.
That's where I put everythingand there's a little link tree
on there if you want to see whatI've been working on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Yep and if there are any producers out there.
Please hire me or anyonelooking for an amazing AD who's
going to make their actors feelvery safe?
Jj.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
That's the idea, and everybody feels safe.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Thanks so much for being here, man.
This is really really sweet.
I'm so glad you're here and,like all, your insights and your
thoughts are gold.
That's awesome man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
I was so honoured that youasked me to be on here and like
have a chat with you, and it'sjust a nice excuse to catch up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Yeah, dude, I'm just catching up with my mates.
Yeah, this is good, thank you.
Thanks so much, man.
That was a sweet one, right,guys?
Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you so much for watching.
Make sure you check out JJ Leachon all socials.
I've got to go rest my voiceand try not to cough, because I

(01:06:38):
am shooting a movie in four daysand if I don't have a voice by
then, then I'm proper fucked.
So take it easy, guys.
You know the drill Share,follow, subscribe, Show all the
love.
Follow us on Instagram atgopluckyourselfpod, or follow me
at featuring underscore Chris,underscore gun.
If you want to support the show, you can do so by going to
patreoncom slashgopluckyourselfpod to keep this

(01:07:02):
thing going through sickness andin health for as little as $5 a
month.
Thank you so much for anyonethat's already contributed.
You guys are the true MVPs.
Theme music is by my totallydope cousin, nick Gunn.
You can check him out onSoundCloud soundcloudcom slash
Nick Gunn.
My name is Chris Gunn.

(01:07:23):
I'm going to go take a nap and,hey, go pluck yourself.