Ep 5 Lauren Koopowitz: Building an Acting Career on Your Own Terms

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Lauren Koopwitz and this is Chris Gunn,
and you should go pluckyourself.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello, welcome to Go Pluck Yourself the Actor's
Pursuit.
My name is Chris Gunn.
Welcome back to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I'm sorry that I had to take aweek off last week.
As you can hear, I'm clearlystill recovering from that damn
flu, but also I've spent thelast 12 days cruising around New
Zealand in a camper van with myamazing girlfriend.
So there was no episode lastweek, but it was totally worth

(00:39):
it because we had the best timeand we did some skiing.
We had the best time and we didsome skiing and we climbed a
couple of mountains and we justenjoyed the amazing scenery of
the South Island.
It was O for awesome.
But I'm back and I'm so excitedto share this episode with you
this week.
This week's guest is an absolutegem in this industry.

(00:59):
She's one of the most talented,versatile and committed actors
that I know.
An actor that cares so deeplyabout this industry and her
fellow actor and is so in touchwith her craft Guys it's the
phenomenal.
Lauren Kuperwitz, if you're anactor that's feeling insecure
about your pathway into thisindustry maybe you're new to
this game or you don't knowwhere to start.

(01:20):
You are going to get so muchout of this episode.
What I love about this chat isthat Lauren and I are both
actors that forged our ownpathways.
We both kind of wedgedourselves into the acting world
in our own ways, not to say thatwe cut corners or anything.
We both worked our asses off tofind opportunities and create
opportunities to learn and growand connect with other actors

(01:42):
and filmmakers.
But more than that, it seemsthat we both fell into this
industry in similar ways, byembracing whatever passions and
interests popped up throughoutour lives and following them
with curiosity.
Neither of us took thetraditional road and I think
that shows in our open-mindedapproaches.
I'm a huge fan of Laurence andif you haven't heard of her,

(02:03):
it's an honour to introduce herto you.
I strongly encourage that yougo and check out some of her
work.
Go give her a follow onInstagram at Lauren underscore
Coop, that's K-O-O-P.
I'll put some links to some ofher work, if I can find it, and
to her socials and everything inthe description below.
Please give her a follow, checkher out.

(02:23):
All right, I won't go onbecause it's a longer episode,
but honestly, there wasn'tanything that I could cut out of
it because it was all gold.
So get your pens ready, getready to take some notes and let
me know what sticks.
I'd love to hear from you guys.
So make sure you leave acomment if you're watching on
YouTube, or comment on one ofthe Instagram Reels, or leave a
positive review if you'relistening on Apple Podcasts.

(02:44):
All right, please enjoy my veryinsightful chat with the
wonderful Lauren Kuperwitz.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
Thanks for coming.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Oh, my God.
No, thank you so much forhaving me.
It's so lovely that you'redoing this, oh.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
I'm doing it for me.
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, no, no no, I'm loving this.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm doing it for me.
What do you mean?

Speaker 4 (03:06):
No, no, no, I'm loving this.
I get to see all my friends.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, I don't know why I didn't do this sooner.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, totally.
I mean you get to just likechat with people you would
actually chat with, just for fun, yeah, but then it becomes a
little piece of something.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
I know and we can share it with the world, because
people want to hear from us,right.
They want to hear me ramble andyou ramble.
Yeah, he doesn't want to hear.
I love a good ramble.
Yeah, how's your day been?

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Oh my God, you know it started off so beautifully.
I went for a lovely littleboulder I loved a boulder.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, it was very fun .

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yes, and I was very, very happy.
Yeah, it was really nice.
What about your day?

Speaker 4 (03:44):
My day, I cleaned a house.
Yeah yeah, nice.
And then I came and set this up, made sure everything was good
to go.
Love that, because I've been abit unorganized.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's hard to be organized when it's just you.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
There's a lot to think about.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
There's so much to think about, and particularly
when because, like you, I alsowork multiple jobs, because you
know how it is when you'reworking multiple jobs and you're
organizing things that you arerunning yourself and you are the
person driving it.
It's hard.
It's hard to be like on top ofeverything all the time.
I think with most people, solong as they're on top of things
like 80% of the time, peoplethink that you're on top of it

(04:20):
100% of the time.
It's all about perception.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
So you just need to have like on average.
I mean, I'm pretty, I'm very ontop of it, yeah, but I just
like I've got to calm myselfdown and be like it's fine,
you've done it.
Yeah, you've checked all theboxes.
It's all good and we're here.
We're here, everything'sworking, and people have been so
giving and excited to comealong and hang out with me in my

(04:45):
little room, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's a nice little room.
Thanks, it's lovely.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
It looks like a boy's bedroom hey.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
It does.
But a boy who also like hassome taste.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Well, this is kind of what my.
You know what I mean.
Oh, thanks, man.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
It's very mask, but in a nice way, you know.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
That's me Mask in a nice way.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, my studio sums me up yeah, he's masked, but he's nice,
but he's nice you know you'vegot taste.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I see the little, you know, the little bulb there for
some mood lighting.
You've got plants.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Some Ikea business going on.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, you know it's proof that you consider things.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
Propagation.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yes, you can keep things alive, you're reliable.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Oh well, no, that's my girlfriend's work.
I did have other plants in here.
I stole that from the kitchen.
But I did have other plants inhere and they died.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Do you know what?
I've had two long-runningplants.
Every other plant I've had hasdied.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
So I'm with you.
Do you know that you can takedead plants back to Bunnings and
get a full refund?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
They could pay my rent with all the plants I've
killed, yeah, or, like I don'tknow, maybe exchange, I don't
know.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
But either way, you don't have to water them, I
guess.
Oh look, I'm not going to waterthem, I'm just going to take
them back.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
That's so mean Just buy a plant to kill it and get
it replaced.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
I don't know about the morals of that, yeah, but
anyway, I wish I knew that,because I mean, here's a pot of
dirt, there was a plant in here.
Can I have my money back?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
That's the wildest hustle.
Just bring a receipt and a potwith dirt in it.
Yeah, you could scam.
I know you thought of it.
There's a loophole, there's aloophole, yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Genius yeah, genius yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Is this what you brought me in here to talk about
?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah To talk about cooling down cameras
and how to scam bunnings.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, yeah, no, this is good, I love it.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
Why did I bring you in here?
Look great question.
I know why?
Because you're a great Adelaideactor.
Oh, and we keep bumping intoeach other, I know yeah.
Which means it's all working.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yes, and it means hopefully we'll keep on bumping
into each other.
It's really cool, actually,because for so long I feel like
we've seen each other around andthen we did that read together
a table read, and that wasreally really wonderful.
And then it was kind of thefirst time we actually got to
work together was just like acouple of weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Yeah, on a little shoot, on a stills shoot, yeah,
which was really fun yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
So we actually still haven't properly acted in a
scene together.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
I know, but we will, yeah, I'm sure we will, it'll
happen, yeah, yeah.
I think, so that was really fun.
It was Out in Kaipo Forest.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you actually you were brilliant in
that.
It was so interesting becausewe only it was just stills and I
feel like you only had a fewmoments to like make, to convey
all of the emotion of the scenethat the still was trying to
convey, and you did such a greatjob.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
So did you?
You just like they just say allright, it's your turn, lauren,
and you just like tears.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Oh, I feel that about you.
I think that that's actuallyone of my.
I think one of my superpowersas an actor is I'm really
unhinged as a human being, so Ioften have a lot of emotions
that I can access.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
Right, okay, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, so I think that that's a skill set of mine.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
They're just all bubbling away at the surface all
the time.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, I think that one of learning curves for me
was to learn how to embracestillness more, because I could
always access the feelings andthe things and sometimes it was
learning to just sit in it andlike be in it, and you don't
have to, you can just be therein it and that's actually really

(08:18):
compelling to watch.
You don't have to do loads.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
I wonder why.
That is why stillness is sopowerful.
I mean obviously there's sortof the technical elements to
that, in which you know whereyou're, like you know, jumping
around a frame and distractingthe audience with all your
movements and stuff.
But also just kind ofcontaining that energy, yeah,
instead of like exerting itthrough your body and all this
movement just containing thatinto something internal.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think we love to watch people.
You know, it's like the mostfascinating thing to people
often is other people.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
So then, when you can actually have a person just
exist and feel something that'srelatable and, yeah, you don't
have to do a lot.
I think people are just kind offascinated by watching the
inner tics of a person existing.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, for sure.
And also you don't want to begiving too much away as well
because you want it to be up tothe audience to decide what
they're feeling and what you'refeeling, I guess, it's
interesting, it's like that.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
You know, there was this study that they did.
Where they took it was apsychology study, where they had
a person's face, a person'simage, and they would just
superimpose it with differentmusic underneath and they'd have
different people.
Yeah, they'd have different,and it would be exactly the same
facial expression.
Yeah, interesting and they'dhave people read what they think
the emotion is and the answerswere entirely, entirely swayed

(09:39):
by the music.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
It's context, isn't it?
Yeah, the context of it, soit's interesting.
I was talking about this withNick Launchby in the first
episode.
Yeah, yeah, context, and I kindof realised with this whole like
doing nothing thing, thatsomething that really set me
free from trying to control theemotions or trying to control

(10:00):
the scene too much is justrelying on the fact that there
is context built around thismoment, that we're, that we're
shooting right now like this oneshot, yeah, like I could be
showing nothing and just youknow, just maintaining that
stillness and internalizingeverything and trusting that
they're going to cut to anothershot which is going to answer

(10:20):
all the questions, or theaudience is already going to
know what's happened up untilthat point yeah so they can
already put the pieces together.
So in in the moment I'm notworrying about I need to tell
all of this story in this oneone shot one, look, you know.
So yeah, context is so.
It's so reassuring, you know,to know that it's going to free
me up to just exist in thatmoment.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I think that was a big learning curve for me
too, I think when I was a babyactor.
You know you want to like showeverything.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
But the audience isn't dumb.
Like they, and also like youtrust in the directors and the
editors and things like theythey will write it to be the
story that they want it to be.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, it might all change.
Yeah, in the edit.
Yeah, well, in the edit.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, well, you know, there's the whole thing that a
story is written three timesonce when it's being written,
once when you're shooting andonce in the edit.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yeah, absolutely, and we have no control over that, I
know, and nor should we.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah.
How do you feel about that?
Does it make you nervous?
Does it make you excited?
Not at all.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, it takes all the pressure off.
Yeah is going.
I couldn't possibly try to getthis right, because there is no
right, because it's all going tochange.
It might all change, but I'mgoing to trust the director and
trust the writing and trust thatthey're going to communicate
with me all the differentoptions that they need so that

(11:39):
they can change it if they needto.
So that's why we're doing allthese takes, and so when they
come at me with direction,instead of being like, well, am
I not doing it right?
I'm going yeah, cool, we'llfinish that version.
Let's try this other angle.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
You know, and that frees me up, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
I love that Takes the pressure off.
Exactly which is out of mycontrol and we'll just you know.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
See the vibe.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
So did you study?

Speaker 1 (12:10):
No, I didn't, I didn't.
Well, I did, but not in thetraditional like three year
drama course or anything.
Yeah, I've sort of I did weeklycourses for a long time.
Ah okay yeah, when I was ateenager.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Where is?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
that At Essay Casting .
Okay, and I did that for quitea few years every week,
religiously.
I've always loved to perform.
Yep, I adore it.
Terrible, terrible stage fright.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
Really.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, terrible stage fright.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
And.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
I remember I used to, before every single class,
there was like a staircase ofyou know stairs to go up.
You could take the elevator orthe stairs.
I'd have to take the stairs tojust calm myself down every time
walking into my class because Iwas so nervous.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
Get rid of some of the energy and exert yourself.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
I think, I'm a very naturally anxious person who's
drawn to things that provoke myanxiety.
Bouldering is an example ofthat.
I went bouldering this morningyeah like I said, um, and that
scares the shit out of me, but Ido it all the time.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yeah, because everyone's everyone's watching
you.
Yeah, it's actually not stagefive.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
It's more fear of heights okay, yeah so I tend to
have a personality type that,like I think, I like to torch
myself a little bit okay, youknow, yeah, well, it's working
for you yeah, well, you know, Igotta do some things that I
really enjoy yeah.
To answer your question.
No, I did not study atraditional three-year course.
I did a bunch of classes and Ifucking loved acting.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
And I was like, wow, this is amazing.
And then I went off to uni anddid something else and I was
like I didn't really know or seeit as a possibility.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
Yeah, so how old were you when you went to uni?

Speaker 1 (13:43):
I went straight out of school, so I was like 18.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
So you were doing acting classes at the end of
high school?
Yeah, so from when I was like14.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Up until I was you know what, up until I was maybe
20, I was doing these classesbut not thinking it was a viable
career.
It's funny too, because I wasactually also technically acting
, working in acting, but I guessI didn't.
Really I didn't really see itas that.
Yeah, I worked as a standardizedpatient for a long time, yeah,

(14:11):
but specifically with psychiatry.
So I did it in psychiatry andin pediatric psychiatry.
So I would take on these caseswhere I would be patients going
off and I would be the patientin a crisis.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
So this is simulated medical scenarios?
Yeah, like training for yes formedical professionals.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So, for example, sometimes it would be like I
would be a young girl with bodydysmorphing disorder who thought
she needed a nose job, but itwas so drastic that she couldn't
leave the house.
She was not functioning as aperson.
There were times where I wasplaying characters that were
going through psychotic episodes, were times I played characters
that were it was de-escalationscenario.
So I would be, you know, maybea a patient that had bipolar

(14:53):
mood disorder and wasessentially having just
completely overstimulated andhaving a bit of a meltdown, like
not knowing how to handlethings but throwing tables
around a room and things.
And then the doctors yeah, oroften it would be we worked with
nurses, doctors, students.
Sometimes it would be like, forexample, I worked a lot with
psychiatrists that were fromoverseas and needed to requalify

(15:15):
in Australia, and then it'slike either it would be a test
so they'd be monitored andthey'd see how they deal with
the situation or it would betraining for them to learn to
get comfortable with, say,breaking bad news to a patient
or dealing with difficulthistory taking, and I loved it,
but I didn't value it, or rather, I just thought it was

(15:36):
something that I loved, and Ididn't think of myself as a
professional by any means, Ijust knew that I loved acting.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Did you realise that you were acting?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, absolutely Like I saw it as an acting job, but
this was at the same time that Iwas.
I did that throughout highschool and then I did it when I
was at uni and I was working anoffice job and it was just
something that I got to do everynow and again and I loved.
But, I didn't think that it waspossible for me to ever work in
acting.
I didn't really think there wasa space for me in the industry.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
So when did you like get an agent?

Speaker 1 (16:09):
So well, I was actually with my agent for a
long time.
So when I was doing classes atEssay Casting, I was with them,
with Ann Peters, but I didn'treally work a whole lot, so I
didn't.
I just I did bits and pieces.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Like I did some double work on a feature film, I
did quite a bit of extra workand featured extra work I did.
It wasn't really until my earlytwenties when I started hunting
for work myself.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
That I was like oh, I can actually work in this, so I
started, I got up a Star Nowprofile.
Yeah, nice.
And I did a bunch of musicvideos and then I got contacts
from those music videos and Imade friends with the people
because they're all lovely,awesome humans, and then some of
them wanted me to work on theirshorts.
Or I got auditions for shortsand then I did a bunch of shorts
, which is like the best way to.

(17:00):
It's such a good way to honeyour craft.
Yeah, it is so good because youget roles you would never, ever
get, or rather, it's far lesslikely that you're going to get
such complex or like screen time, heavy or interesting roles,
often in a bigger production.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
So you just get a chance to really like play.
It's lower stakes, yeah yeah,you get bigger roles in a sense,
you know, and I just did like abunch of them and then I
started booking more, bookingbigger jobs through my agency
and through my own contacts.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
I love that.
I love that whole journey,because I was talking to Poppy
me.
I love.
Poppy, she's great.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I didn't talk much.
She had questions for me.
I love Poppy, she's great.
Yeah, I didn't talk much.
She had questions for me.
Yeah, but she was curious aboutthis concept of like because
she studied in a lot of you knowthis kind of you know, there's
two parties here.
There's people that went to uniand the people that, like,
somehow did it without it, yeah.
Even though we both found waysto study.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
But she kind of was talking about this concept of
like asking for permission andshe was curious, like how did
you find the whatever it is inyourself to just do it, without
waiting to be told you can do it?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
it's scary.
How did you?

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Well, I feel like you and I have a similar story?

Speaker 1 (18:20):
I think so too.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
Because I was doing classes.
You know at Actors Inc.
Yeah, when I was doing classes.
You know at Actors Inc.
Yeah, when.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I was 13.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah, up until I don't know, 16 maybe, but I was
always like performing, like Iwas doing clowning with my dad
when I was a kid.
Oh, that's cool you know ridingunicycles in the pageant Really
.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
That's sick and like we would.
There was a movie.
There was a Johnny Depp filmcalled Benny and June.
Have you seen that?
No, well, he plays thischaracter who's like obsessed
with Buster Keaton.
Yeah, and there's this reallynice routine in that film where
he does all these tricks withhis hanky and he's like flipping
and he's playing with the crowd.
It's all silent and dad and Ilearnt the whole routine when I

(19:02):
was a kid, so that was just, anddad taught us how to ride
unicycles and juggle and stuffand do magic and stuff.
And I was always playing musicand I was playing piano when I
was four and I played allthrough my life and taught
myself guitar and would sing foryears and I'd do high school
plays and stuff.
So that was just life.
It wasn't like I want to be anactor or a performer, it was

(19:24):
like in my spare time I play bydoing this kind of stuff and
entertaining people and I justgot used to making people smile
or laugh by doing these kind ofthings you know, and then you
got the bug.
Well, I didn't even realise Ihad it.
I think we had the bug ourwhole life.
I think so too, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Because it was similar for me in that it was my
hobbies Exactly.
I sang for years.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
I still do sing yeah, nice Years and years and I
loved it.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Had horrific stage fright but loved it so much that
I just wanted to keep on doingit.
Yeah, Same with acting Horrificstage fright, but just loved and
enjoyed the creative process ofit so much, yeah, that I just
found ways to be doing it um.
It's funny because my parentsaren't in it at all.
Yeah, yeah, my dad actually,when he was younger, he's he's

(20:16):
not in it at all, he's, he's adoctor.
He's not in um acting at all,but when he was in um matric in
in high school, he loved acting.
He played Hamlet, he adored itno way.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah, he loved it.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
He actually.
He grew up in a little smalltown and they even wrote a
little news article about him.
He got a feature because, hedid so well as Hamlet yeah, cool
.
So he always loved it, so healways exposed me to a lot of
film.
I think that's actually a bigthing.
Yeah, I grew up watching somuch film and like film I should
not have been watching attender young ages.
Yeah, but it was like dark andlike horror and like all sorts.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
And I just kept on being drawn to it.
I think it's similar to yeah,it was like.
I would do other things.
I studied.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
I feel like we had the same life.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
man, yeah, I know I studied something else, but then
, just like any of my free time,was like I would love to sing
and I would love to like act andlike this is so fun and this is
so amazing and I think it ishard not being given permission
you know, like I always feltlike I was never quite doing the
right thing.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, because you're kind of expecting an objective
view of someone on the outside,just to be like this is right
this is what you're doing.
But you don't know what youdon't know, you don't know what
you don't know, you don't knowwhat you're missing and because
we didn't go to uni, yeah, yougo to a set or something and you
might feel like, is this okay?
All these people studied.
But then people are like nogood job.

(21:37):
And you're like, oh, I guessit's not that deep.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Honestly, though, you asked me because you gave me
some really goodthought-provoking questions, and
this is actually a much betteranswer.
You said what is the adviceyou'd give yourself, or your
younger self, or something?
It's not that deep.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Yeah, it's not that deep.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And I've seen that time and time again so many of
the actors that I admire andtheir careers, that they've just
done these incredible things.
They don't know shit while theystart, no, and either they
don't overthink it it's not thatdeep or they do overthink it,
but they do it anyway.
Yeah, you know what I mean,yeah yeah, Like recently at the
end of last year, I was being astand-in and a double for Sally

(22:19):
Hawkins.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
No way, I'm bringing her back.
Yeah, it was so amazing, soamazing.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
I would come home every single night and just like
write notes and notes and notesabout her process, because I
think she's so amazing, oh manfront row seats.
I know how cool, but thebiggest takeaway that I got was
she was unsure of herself.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
And she did it anyway .
Yeah, like she, and it's like Iwas like you know she would be
like, not that she was unsure ofherself, in that she was an
unconfident actor, but I wastalking to her and I was like
you know, your performance wasso amazing today, sort of thing.
And she was like I don't know,I never know, I don't know if
they like it.
I, you know, she didn't know,and I was like and she's like a

(23:06):
world class, incredible actorwith a career that one can only
dream of.
And even she was like I'm justmaking it up, what am I doing?
Well, you, are.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
You're doing something, you're creating
something out of nothing andyou've got a script to work in,
but you're creating a characterout of nothing.
But, yeah, I think that wassomething for me as well, like
witnessing, or, you know, evenlistening to interviews of these
big Hollywood superstars thatare still saying, I don't know
what the fuck I'm doing.
Yeah, and I'm terrified everysingle time.

(23:37):
Yes, or, you know, we mightmove on from a scene and be like
but we didn't get the coverageAwful yeah.
And they might win an Oscar forit.
Yeah, I saw Julianne Anderson,but just be, like maybe that is
just what it feels like.
Yeah, it just always feels likethat, and you just have to
accept that.
Okay, trust, trust the othercreatives in the room that are

(23:58):
that are going to make it work.
They won't make you look dumb.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
What were?

Speaker 4 (24:02):
you going to say you?

Speaker 1 (24:02):
saw her.
I was going to say GillianAnderson.
I saw a video of her saying thesame thing.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
She said every single time, even to this day, I walk
on set.
I think I'm going to get firedfor the first week.
Oh yeah, I think I've seen that.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
But I agree, I agree.
I think it is like life Putthat on a t-shirt.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
We've got so many t-shirts to make in this podcast
already.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
I love this, I'm ready for the merch, but I think
when you're less experienced,you assume that there is a right
and a wrong way.
But the more experience, youget, the more you realize
everybody's just winging itBecause there's a million ways
to do it right, Like it's theage old thing of like you think
as a adults understand whatthey're doing, and then you
become an adult and you're like,oh shit.

(24:47):
Yeah, I know, it's me, I'm theresponsible adult.
I feel like that as an actor.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Where it's just like shit.
I don't know.
I just really like to do thisthing.
I think it's really fascinatingand interesting and I'm really
drawn to it.
I don't know, I'm just makingit up, yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, Because there is no point.
I don't think there's a pointfor anyone where they go.
Now I know what it is.
Now I know how to do it.
Maybe that point is I'll neverknow what it feels like.
Yeah, Maybe when you realizethat you can be like now.
I can give myself permission.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
It's a level of acceptance, but it is only you
that can give yourselfpermission.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
No, that can give yourself permission.
No one else is actually goingto do it, because no one knows
what you're going through.
No one knows you know where youare at in your head or in your,
like learning you know howconfident do you feel when you
walk onto a set.
These days.
Yeah, I'm fine mate, but no,that's pretty new that feeling

(25:43):
yeah.
But I've got things in my headthat I tick off you know, that
are.
You know all these sort ofmantras.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
What are your mantras , please?
Oh, like what we've beentalking about.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
You know, like everybody's terrified.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Everyone's here to make something together.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
We're all collaborating, yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
Right, it's okay to not know what the fuck I'm doing
.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, for me it's feel the fear and do it anyway
which is I know it's corny, butI like it.
The other one is I don't knowif I've told you this.
I feel like I tell everybodythis.
I have this mantra or thislittle reminder to myself, where
that I say teapots to myselfbecause it's based on this,
because you're mad I am, becauseI'm fucking insane.

(26:21):
No, it's based on this storythat I heard about this art
school, I think in California.
I think this is a real story bythe way, not just like some
modern folklore.
Yeah, but there was this veryprestigious art school where
they were doing pottery and theyhad a very famous, you know,
pottery teacher and he dividedthe class into two groups and he
said we're making teapots andthe one half of the group I want

(26:44):
you to make one teapot in thesemester.
You're going to spend all yourtime designing it and crafting
it and making the best teapotthat's special to you or
whatever it is.
Put all of your effort in thisone teapot.
And then to the other half hesaid I want you to make teapots
as fast as you can Make as manyas you can Make them every week,
make them every day.
And by the end of the semesterthe group that had made a lot of

(27:06):
teapots were making betterteapots than the ones who spent
all the time planning to makethe one teapot.
So that's my thing, I tellmyself teapots, because when I
get too nervous I'm like youknow what if this is not perfect
.
Like this is another step inthe journey.
This is teapots.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Yeah, because we we're not good at anything when
we first started.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
No Right, no terrible .

Speaker 4 (27:25):
And it's all about reps.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
And just starting, yeah, and trying it, and that's
why you know student films, yeah, amateur theatre.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Whatever, whatever way you can build reps in a low
stakes environment, yeah, Evenjust taping with friends.
Yeah, self tapes, yeah, selftapes.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, I think some of the best things for my
performance growth definitely.
Yeah, short films huge.
What a wonderful experience toplay Even music videos again,
just being on set experience.
The standardized patient workthat I did Performing in a band
was actually really really goodfor me.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Really good for me because that helped me to get
over stage fright.
Yeah, I think any creativething helps other creative
things in a sense.
So it's not direct actingtraining, but it is training
creative focus.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
Oh, there's so many elements that you're picking up
from those other creativeoutlets.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, you would have it too, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yeah, well, I think with every experience that I've
collected over the years, andyou too it sounds like it's all
come in handy for this thingthat I've collected over the
years, and you too.
It sounds like it's all come inhandy for this thing that we've
chosen to do now.
Yeah, totally, totally, and itfeels like this thing, this
acting thing.
Not that this is the onlycreative outlet I have, but this
acting thing is like I knowthat this thing is where I can

(28:41):
utilise all of those skills thatI have to use because I'm so.
There's something in me that'slike I need to get this energy
out of me.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
I need to do it here.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
And this is the avenue I can do it because,
there's just so many good thingsabout it.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, I agree, but yeah, it's all reps, it's all
reps, yeah, all of those thingsreally, really I think were like
so helpful to me in learning tojust be present and just get
into it when it's time when it'sa more high stakes environment.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Yeah, so how do you go with higher stakes
environments?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I think one of the biggest things has been learning
to just tune out the noise, tofocus on the creative process,
you know, and that's where allthe reps come in right, because
it's like the creative musclethat you're growing.
So then it's just whenever I tryand prepare as much as I can,
you know, but there's only somuch that you can yeah, and then
just arrive and just try andprovide myself with all of the

(29:36):
circumstances that I need to beperforming at my best, yeah, to
be on my game.
And again I'm going to talkabout her again because I I love
her, but, but, sally, yeah,well, I mean, she was obviously
a pivotal moment in yourlearning.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yeah, to witness her at work.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I think it was actually affirming because she
made sure she always hadeverything that she needed with
her.
She had her big bag ofeverything, her notes, her
anything always with her andaround her.
She asked to take a moment ifshe needed.
She asked around her.
She asked to take a moment ifshe needed.
She asked for the things sheneeded and I have been doing
that on set already.
Yeah, but I felt so unsure aboutit yeah, you know, again

(30:12):
waiting for permission butseeing her do it was so
validating, being like, oh great, so I, because I am that person
, I bring my whole bag of shitonto set and yeah I've got all
of my notes if I, if I want togo back and reread my thoughts
on something, to get myself intoa headspace or like have like a
snack or something likeanything.
My little bag of safetyblankets.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's just security and things that you
know you can rely on.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, when you need to take a moment to recenter.
Yeah, and takes you out of yourhead, yeah and seeing that she
did that too, I was like oh nice, that's great, I haven't
thought of that.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
I bring nothing to set Really.
Yeah, I was like, oh nice,that's great, I haven't thought
of that.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I bring nothing to set.
Really, yeah, really.
No, I'm such an over-preparerin that way.
I bring so much.
I'm such an under-preparerReally.
I admire actors like that.
I want to be that.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
I feel like I give other actors anxiety because my
scripts will have no notes onthem.
Dude, I'm.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
I admire that.
I love that so much Okay.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
I feel like that's what makes me unprofessional.
But I don't usually show peoplemy script, Like if I do a play.
People are like scribblingnotes and I'm just like the
word's already there, We'll seewhat happens.
Man, that's so good.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
No, I have come in with so many notes.
I remember I used to feelreally self-conscious about it.
I remember doing this shortwith another actor who I adore
and he's amazing, um, stanleybrowning.
Um, if you're watching thislistening, I guess, no, but he's
incredible.
But I remember we did a shortcalled downpour together.
Um, we've done a few togetheractually now, but I remember on
that one he was one of thosewonderful actors that, like

(31:38):
yourself, he just rocked up andhe just did the thing yeah and I
remember I had my, my scriptand it was just like covered in
notes and thoughts and timelinesand everything.
And I remember looking at hisand being so self-conscious yeah
right.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
But I look at someone with lots of notes and I'm like
, oh fuck, I'm going to blowthis out of the water.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
But you know that's comparison, though you can't.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
Everyone's process is different.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
So different.
I think.
The more that I learn, the moreI realize there are a billion
ways to do it and all of themare correct, yeah absolutely,
you know, yeah, clip that.
Put that on a t-shirt.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
You got my merch yeah , absolutely, that's so true.
Yeah, okay, fuck it, I ruinedit, that was good Shit.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Nah, do you know what , if this was a rolling, take
you?
You haven't ruined it, it justmeans send yourself, take a
breath and go into it again.
I feel like that's actually abig thing for me as well yeah is
seeing that, seeingprofessionals who I really
respect do that on sets in highstakes environments where they,
they flub a take and then theyjust take a moment, they take a
breath and then they keep ongoing.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Yeah, amazing, yeah, amazing, yeah.
I think that's important, likeI've started doing that too, and
I think it's.
I think that's another one ofthose things that you feel like
you can't do.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, yeah, but there's no rules.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
No, there are no rules.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
The reality is, every single person on a set is so
highly qualified and there is somuch running money often on
bigger sets that is being spentevery moment that you're on a
set.
So it's easy to feel really,really scared to take time.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah, there's a lot of pressure, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
But that actually means the opposite.
It means take the time that youneed, because there is so much
riding on those moments that ifyou need an extra five minutes
to centre yourself, but it meansyou get the perfect take.
That's worth it.
Absolutely Everybody wants youto succeed.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Do you know what I mean Like?

Speaker 1 (33:26):
everybody, nobody wants you to fail.
Everybody wants you to fuckingcrush that line or you know,
really be present and really bein the moment.
So I think it's like just beingcourageous enough to ask for
what you need and do what youneed, Absolutely man.
God, I'm so corny.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
No, you need absolutely man.
God, I'm so corny, no, this isso good.
I mean, it just blows my mindthat.
Or I mean how much, how muchinsight you've, you've sort of
collected over over your lifedoesn't feel like that no, but I
mean, I I feel the same, like Ifeel like I've just I don't
know how this happened yeah, doyou know?

Speaker 1 (34:01):
do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (34:01):
like I feel like I've just absorbed so much
information from like I startedthis because I learned how to
act from listening to podcasts.
Really, yeah, I mean.
No, I mean obviously I've gotall the practical experience
that I had throughout my wholelife, but all this sort of stuff

(34:22):
that we're talking about andhearing from actors that are
really successful, that you knowsay things like we're still
really terrified you know allthose kind of things which gave
me reassurance to be like Icould give this a go.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
I learned it all from interviews and podcasts and
stuff you know like I listenedto.
There's a podcast called In theEnvelope and I've listened to
like a thousand episodes of thatand I used to clean.
That's some hours, yeah well, Iused to clean windows for this
company, and then I started myown cleaning business yeah, no
so I just have my headphones inall the time and I would just

(34:56):
I'll listen to like sevenepisodes a day yeah of all these
different podcasts and that'show I sort of absorbed all this
stuff yeah and then I would belike dying to get on a film set
or on a stage to try it and doit.
Yeah, you know Totally, butwhere did you, where did all
this come from?

Speaker 1 (35:13):
I really feel like my acting journey has been really
scrappy for lack of a betterterm and really like I, it's not
been traditional Scrap is theanswer, though, yeah.
And I think that you learn a lotand I think for me it's doing a
lot of non-conventional thingsand then talking about it, a lot
chatting about it.
I think, my partner, the loveof my life, human angel just

(35:36):
hears all of my anxious rants,and I think that's where I learn
things.
I talk about it.
I'm like, wow, I had thisreally crazy day and I did all
of these things, but I just blabon until all of a sudden, I'm
like, oh, that's the takeaway.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
I think it's really important to talk about it.
Yeah, because I find myself inthese conversations all the time
.
Yeah, I love it, and I don'tknow.
I've heard a few times peoplesay, like you know, I don't
think there's any point intalking about the craft Disagree
.
I think, like Cillian Murphysaid that, and I'm like all
right, man, that works for you.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Hard, disagree hard disagree Again.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
It's like what works for you, it's so personal
there's no, right or wrong, noexactly.
But I get so much out oftalking about this with other
actors and other filmmakers.
Or just like my mum, who's anactor, but totally yeah.
Or just like my mum, yeah,who's an actor, but you know,
but totally.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
I feel like it's often where I get clarity.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Because it's like you have all of these experiences,
for me at least.
Like I said, I'm a highlyemotional person, part of, I
guess, why I'm drawn to acting.
But, I think also.
First of all, I have a verygood exterior, Just in my
personality.
Generally, I feel a lot ofemotions.
Not loads of people in my lifewould read me and say, wow,
you're a super emotional person.

(36:48):
But because I'm highlyemotional, sometimes I think I
go around in circles withthoughts and feelings without
coming to conclusions.
But when I speak it out loudand I hear it, it's much more
easy for me to draw conclusionsand get takeaways.
You know, I don't know.
I know.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
No, I'm with you.
Yeah, come to a lot ofrealisations like that.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, but I think also because I've not been given
a framework.
Like we said, I didn't do atraditional three-year course.
I didn't even get into it.
A lot of people go into it andthey do a lot of theatre.
I didn't do that.
I did a lot of really shortform things and did all sorts of
random projects, like I didthis incredible ARG, this

(37:30):
augmented reality game, yearsago.
That was amazing and went kindof viral and that was really
really awesome.
But again, it was one of thesethings that was like this is not
the traditional route that anactor is supposed to take, so
you just sort of you do a thingand then you talk about it and
then you're like that's what Ilearned, I guess.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Yeah, but it all accumulates, I think.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
It does.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
And even experiences that don't have anything to do
with acting.
Yeah, you know living your life, going through hell.
You know hitting rock bottom,having a breakup.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, living in the real world is one of the best
tools for being an actor.
I think sometimes, if you'retoo acting centric and you don't
spend enough time living in thereal or living experiences,
having breakups, having likefriends falling out, or working
a job that you hate, or workinga job that you love or like you
know, like actors are playingreal people.

(38:24):
So, like you kind of need to be, the more of a fleshed out
worldly real person you areoften, the more of a pool of
experiences you have to drawfrom, absolutely, you know.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, spot on, I totally agree yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Because I didn't act for like years, like from 21 to
my late 20s.
Really yeah, I mean, I did acouple, maybe a couple of little
things.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
But, I spent those years just going through it
going through whatever lifehappened.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
We don't need to go into that.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
But you know I came out of that with all this
insight.
But also I needed to go throughthat to discover who I was and
some really good experiences,some really horrible, scary
experiences, but they've made methe person that I am, with all
these insights that I can bringto different characters.

(39:21):
Not that I draw from all ofthose experiences, because I
don't think that's necessarilyvery healthy, but just the
ability to empathize with with acharacter's story yeah and be
like well, I went through this,so I can imagine what this might

(39:41):
feel like for this person who'sgone through this journey.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, I totally think so.
I think it's a reallyinteresting balance of
imagination and drawing frompersonal experience.
But I think that, whetheryou're drawing from your
personal experience or not,having a larger library of life
experience is always anadvantage.
Yeah, you know, that's kind oflike one of the beautiful things

(40:04):
about acting is that anytimesomething happens, I'm like, oh,
that was kind of shit or thathurt or that sucked it's.
There's something kind ofbeautiful in like oh, that can
be a part of a creative processone day.
Yeah, honestly, the older I get, the more I think that there's
so much like mindfulness andcreativity.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
You know what I mean Like.
So much of it are those momentswhere you're like you know,
well, this could be a reallyshit thing or it could become a
really awesome song.
You know what I mean Like oneof my favourite songs I've ever
written.
When I was younger was overlike a really sad experience of
like a friendship breakup.
That was really, really sad,and then I wrote a song that I
fucking loved and I was likewell, you know what Sometimes

(40:49):
it's.
You know, I'm not saying thatyou have to have shit
experiences to make cool things,by no means, but also it's,
it's a nice way to process hardtimes.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Yeah, well, I mean, that's what we do, though.
Yeah, is we?
We turn it into art, right?

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Isn't that the point?

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah Well, I was actually just saying this the
other day to my partner.
That I think is actually one ofmy favorite things about human
beings is the weird inclinationthat we have to make art.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Like there are so many thingsthat you can really chalk up to
different parts of behavioralscience, like I can understand
religion and different like,obviously, like jobs, like so
many different societalstructures.
It makes sense because it'sabout propagation of the species
or it's about self-preservation, you know it's about personal,
you know sense of, you know, uh,ego or importance in the world

(41:38):
and, to be fair, maybe art isthat.
But I think it's a reallyinteresting inclination that we
like to use abstract mediums toevoke feelings in others,
whether it's like a drawing or asong, or like a movie or a play
and so many.
You know what other creaturesdo that?

(41:59):
Like that's kind of that's sucha beautiful way to connect.
What a roundabout way toconnect.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
I know, I know that is really interesting.
And the other thing is somepeople, some people way to
connect.
I know, I know that is reallyinteresting.
And the other thing is somepeople don't make art.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
No, I know, and like that's fine, yeah, but they have
art, yes.
They consume art.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
Yeah, but how do they cope?

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I think people consume more art and I'm
including everything I'mincluding, like tiktoks content
creation books plays films,music, whatever it is.
People consume more art thanever, yeah, but they don't
realize that they are like theyhave no idea, like podcasts,
like whatever you know people,it's, it's.
We're all just fascinated byexpressions of experience,

(42:40):
emotion and human yeah humanconnection.
Yeah god, this is so wanky, butI people we're on a podcast but
people are so drawn to that andit's so funny that by the same
token that people are consumingmore, yeah, art than ever before
and at the same time, art isoften so devalued as a

(43:02):
commercial viability or like asa people, I think people don't
understand how much work oftengoes into so many different art
forms yeah, yeah and like it'sfunny, because when I'm, I'm
often around people who are likenot in the arts at all and
there's a a weird mixture ofthem loving and revering the art
and being so excited by it butalso being like, oh yeah, you

(43:23):
can just like shoot that on aniphone right.
or like like, oh yeah, and it'seasy, you're just like you're an
actor, so you just have bigfeelings and you just get up
there and do the thing.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
You know what I mean, where it's like it's a weird
duality, I think.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Thank God we don't have to make art anymore because
we have AI.
How lucky are we.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, shit.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Because I'm only doing this because we need more,
not because I get something outof it.
No, no, no, no yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
It's actually weird.
I really did not think out ofany of the forms that I thought
AI was going to impact society.
I really never thought it wasgoing to be up first no one's
fucking asked for this.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
No one's asked for this.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
So sad Like automate accounting.
Please, yes, no of this.
So sad like automate accounting.
Yes, no one wants to do thatshit.
But maybe that's selfish of me,because there are accountants
who love accounting and I'mbeing really selfish and saying
don't take my job.
Can?

Speaker 3 (44:11):
I.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah.
Oh, no I was going to say.
Can I pause for one second by?
The way and say I hope thatthis is coherent enough for you,
because I feel like I'm justbouncing from random thing to
random thing.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
No, this is awesome, this is so good.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
What.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
Yeah, I'm loving this .

Speaker 1 (44:29):
I feel like it's a really good example of me being
insecure or anxious and notunderstanding or being unsure of
is this right, you know, likein acting, yeah, yeah, yeah, do
you do that?
On set when I was younger, whenI was in my earlier days.
I think I would ask for morevalidation.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
And that would often be like going to the director
and did we get enough coverage?
Is that okay?

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah, are you sure yeah?

Speaker 1 (44:49):
And now I'm realizing that is soothing my own anxiety
.
Often directors are anxiousthemselves.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
You know they have so many pressures, They've got so
much stuff going on.
Yeah, I think I used to get themost anxious on sets when I was
working with a director who Icould also sense was anxious and
of course they all are, becauseit's a high-stakes environment
and they're making art and youknow what I mean, or like so
many of them are All eyes onthem too.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
And so I have learnt to stop, yeah, and now my
approach is okay.
So now I'm just going to focuson really really hitting like
kind of a flow state, like kindof hitting being in my element
as much as I can and justtrusting that they'll tell me.
You know, which is much scarier.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
Yeah, I've talked about this already on the
podcast, but with a film I did acouple of years ago, with or
Without you, and, yeah, kellywas great, but she didn't give
you much, she left you alone,which is fine, but I just wasn't
used to it.
But I was searching forvalidation.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
I just needed one.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
I need it once you know just be like Kelly is this
the guy?
Yeah?
And she's like, yeah, that'shim.
I'm like cool, let's go and itwas fine.
But yeah, when you talk aboutflow state, that's interesting
because I've described it aslike acting, as like it can feel
like a meditative state.
But I think flow state is areally good word for it because

(46:16):
it is when you go through allthose steps to allow yourself to
just connect to the moment andconnect to the character and you
forget that, you're anxious andyou forget what's going on in
in around around you or in inthe world, and you just, you're
just there with your scene,partner in that environment yeah
, that's the best feeling everkind of this tunnel vision.

(46:37):
You get the blinkers on youknow, yeah, that's my favorite.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
That is my favorite and I often I think I chase
realistically like my hobbiesand all sorts of things.
I often chase that flow stateyeah, I feel like I've got.
I'll clarify two sets ofhobbies the one that's really,
really intellectualised.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
And then the ones that are flow state intuitively
based.
Yeah, and I like having both.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
But I think why I love and pursue acting so much
is it is the most rewarding andsatisfying flow state of any.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, like there is something.
Films, I think.
For me, film and tv are likesome of the most holistic art
forms that I love the most,because it hits so many creative
ideals that I have.
Yeah, and being able to be apart of that as an actor, it it

(47:24):
when you're in your flow state.
It's just so rewarding to me.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Like it is so lovely and so like filling.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
Like you feel so like oh.
That's when it feels likeyou're actually doing it.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, totally.
But I think for a lot of actorsthey will say things like and I
respect this, I love this,where they're like I couldn't do
anything else.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Or it's like this is my one love, and I think for me
that's actually not the case.
I think I am someone who fallsin love with things so hard and
so often.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I fall in love with shit all the time.
Yeah, yeah, I'm bouldering allthe time.
I love it.
I love D&D, I love to likelearn to build PCs and different
things and like like all of myhobbies are so random and
eclectic.
But the beauty about acting, Ithink, is it's one of the few
things where you get a bit ofeverything.
Yeah, like you can pull fromall of these things.
You get a fall in love with anew character.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Yeah, and it's, and their world, yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
And because I fall in love with things so easily.
I think you get to live anotherlife for a moment, Exactly
exactly, and I think the part ofme that just like loves novelty
, loves that in acting whereit's like I think, I am greedy
and I love the idea of living somany different lives.
There are so many lives I couldsee myself living and loving
and experiencing.

(48:43):
Yeah, and in acting you get tolive as many lives as as many
parts you're doing.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
Yeah, you know, and that's really cool yeah it's so
cool, you know, speaking ofusing love as sort of a driving
motive.
Like I realised at some pointthat, like I, I realized that I
feel connected to a character orready to play a character when
I love that character.

(49:11):
Like I have more troublesympathizing with myself.
Like I feel like there's thisidea that when you're playing a
character, you trick yourselfinto becoming that person and
sure, sure, that's fine.
That might be right, I don'tknow, but I find that really
difficult because I don't haveas much sympathy for myself I do

(49:34):
love myself.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
No, I get that.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
It's taken me a long time to feel that, but it's
something that I did strugglewith through a lot of my life,
right.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah, same.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Right, so to play another character.
I had this sort of epiphanythat if I can talk about that
character as if they're a realperson in my life, someone like
a sibling or a relative or areally good friend or someone
that I just know about, someoneexternal to me, and if I can get

(50:06):
to the point where I can talkabout that person like oh,
there's this guy and he had thislike really horrific thing
happen to him, but I can talk toyou like he's a real person in
the world and I can sympathizehim and empathize with him in
that way, then I feel like Ihave to do him justice and

(50:27):
that's how I feel connected tothe character, but I have to
love that character.
And when I realized that I lovethat character, then I'm like
okay, now I can play him.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
That's really cool.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Right.
So I'm curious, like how do you, are you able to
intellectualize, like what makesyou feel ready to play a
character?
Have you has that, has thatsort of crossed your mind before
?
I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
I think often I find little hooks in a character.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
That I'm a huge mix of being an
over-intellectualiser and areally intuitive person.
It's funny because in my family, I think I'm like known as the
intuitive one.
They were like academic andreally you know.
Yeah, yeah, and so I was alwaysknown as like, the creative one
, which is wonderful, but alsolike I definitely had a chip on
my shoulder about that beinglike I'm smart too, but I'm also
like a big intellectual, Ithink.
Sometimes I rely on my instinctat first.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Where it's like there's like a hook or there's
something.
There are lines.
I feel like there's always likethese little lines where you're
like, wow, that's something.
It's like it's a map and it'sfull of treasure right when it's
like that's something that's apart of this personality and I
then will go with a gut feelingand then I will break down more

(51:37):
of an intellectualized like hereis a timeline, here are their
experiences, why do I think theymight do this and that?
And then I just go with the gutflow of it.
But I think, like I said, Ithink I fall in love with things
easy.
So I think I fall in love withcharacters easy.
When you said that, I had arealization that it's like I've
never thought about that before,because every single character
I've ever played, I, I love them.

(51:57):
I guess yeah, right I guess Inever really thought about that,
you know.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
But even if you have to play a character that,
objectively, you despise, yeah,totally, but they have their
reasons, exactly.
You have to get to a placewhere you don't judge them
anymore.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, sofinding that connection through
love for that person.
I found it really important.
It's really helped me.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
I think honestly, generally speaking, like even
from when I was young, I wouldalways think of other people's
perspectives first.
Yeah, and that's not to saylike, oh, I'm so selfless.
It's not necessarily like that,but I think it's a symptom of
the anxiety where it's like Iwill always think of, like what
are the seven things they couldbe thinking right now, before I

(52:41):
think.
What am I actually feeling andthinking?

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
And so I think that came in handy with acting,
because I would just immediatelyread a thing and be like I
think I'm good at seeing someoneelse's perspective while
reading it.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
But I think of the characters that I play.
Well, that's the ability toempathise with someone.
Yeah, and that's vital.
It's so important, it's soimportant.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Also because every person makes choices and
sometimes they make a choice andthey don't know why they're
making that choice, but that'sstill a part of them.
Like sometimes it's like you.
Just if you're like, well,really, why is this line
happening?
It's like I don't know.
I say say that all the time,like that's part of being a
person too.
Like sometimes it's justsurrendering yourself to like

(53:20):
whatever is on the page whilebeing that.
You know.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
Yeah, maybe your character's just not that
self-aware, you know sometimesLike yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
But I think I'm lucky also because the characters
that I've played have beenreally cool and some of them
suck, but like it's fun beingthem you know what I mean, yeah
and, um, I think I'm also luckybecause I've played a really
broad spread and I don't thinkeverybody gets to do that.
So I'm kind of I feel happy, andI think a big part of that was
doing so many short films right,because it's like sometimes if

(53:50):
you're doing a, if I'm doing apart in a feature, um, I'm lucky
enough that I have had a coupleof feature leads, which has
been such a wonderful experience, yeah.
But also I've done a couple offeature leads, which has been
such a wonderful experience,yeah, but also I've done a lot
of like little bit party youknow things, which is wonderful
too, Like I love doing that.
But I think if you're not doinglower stakes things sometimes I
think you get less of anopportunity to play around and
do a really wide variety ofthings, you know.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Yeah, try things that might be too risky, or yeah.
Yeah, I made a film recentlyand it was really good like it
was.
It was a feature, it was astudent film and I love, I love
all these guys that were thatwere on it?
Yeah, no shade on them, becausethey're all students.
Then we're all there learningright yeah but we didn't do many
takes right and so we kind ofwent with like first instinct

(54:36):
with everything yeah, with everysingle take.
Yeah, and I don't know what thefilm looks like and I'm
intrigued, but I feel like I'mjust yelling in every single
take.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Dude, yeah Right.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
I feel like it's just going to be me yelling the
whole film because we only gotthat coverage.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
But I also think that's the exact environment
where I should be doing that.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, absolutely Trying a thing, yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:05):
And coming away from that being like yeah maybe on
the next thing, I will push formore takes and say let's try
these different options.
That's a big learning as well.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
I had asking for another take if I need it or if
I want it and giving variety.
I think when I first started Iwas really nervous, for I'm
really conscious that the artthat I love, there's always a
big emotional journey or thereare changes or like it's not all
one note.
So I always try and break down ascript or break down a piece or
even a scene, and try and maparcs, forget about it on the day

(55:33):
and then just do the thing, butI think it helps me as
reminders of like you can do itthis way, you can do it this way
, see how you react in themoment, but like it's cool to
get the variation um, but also,on a side note, similar.
I had a similar experience lastyear.
I did um.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
I did a film with the guys that make like sharknado
and oh yeah, oh yes, yes, yes,which was anthony anthony frith,
yeah, yeah, so he's he's umfrom adelaide.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, he's aussie.
And yeah, yeah, so he's fromAdelaide, he's Aussie, and he's
wonderful and so funny.
He's really really funny.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Yeah, he's great yeah .

Speaker 1 (56:05):
And they're making a documentary about the making of
it which is really cool.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
It'll be out at AF this year, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
But the film, the way that they run it, you get like
one take and the script like theway that it's written, because
the production company, theAsylum, their modus operandi is
almost is make as many things asthey can while making a profit
and that becomes they can makethe art and the films that they
want to do and make itfinancially viable through sheer

(56:32):
volume rather than throughmaking a return that's big
enough from any one given film.
So they make them really fastand they shoot them even faster
and like that was wild gettingto work on that and just having
one take per each thing you know?

Speaker 4 (56:47):
Were you aware that this might not be your best work
?

Speaker 1 (56:51):
and that's what they want.
Oh my God, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (56:53):
And I was nervous about that, that's so hard, man,
I was nervous, yeah, yeah,because all that pressure that
we were talking about before,like the pressure that you take
away from yourself, thinkinglike, oh, we have more than one
take, this is, we're going to befine.
It's like, okay, now we'veremoved all of that.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, I think also, though I knew going into it,
that the editors have a veryspecific lens I talked to so the
co-lead I was playing theromantic, like the romantic lead
and the the lead of it.
He's done a lot of them beforeyeah jack nemo pearson.
He's wonderful, he's done abunch, yeah.
And before we got shooting, Iwas like can you please tell me?
Like give me the download?
Like how is this gonna be?

(57:29):
Yeah, I'm nervous.
Um, and he was like, first ofall, you know, you just gotta
like do your thing and, like theeditor, they, they have,
they've very stylized choices.
They're going to make thechoices that the asylum, the
production company, wants tomake.
Yeah, so you have to like let goof any preconceived notions
yeah act in your own interest inthat like what you believe the

(57:49):
character is going to do andthen just like, yeah, you kind
of see, wow and it was reallyfun.
It was a great experience likedo I think it's my best acting?
No, but also did I learn somuch?

Speaker 4 (58:01):
absolutely and like also, that's the style.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, exactly that's what it is, yeah you know, it's
funny though, I got the script72 hours before we were shooting
for the.
There was a table read 48 hoursafter I had the script oh my
god and I was told it was anamerican character.
So I spent a good chunk of the48 hours learning my lines and
focusing on really making surethat I didn't have it like

(58:24):
making sure my american accentwas really like- yeah ready.
Which lesson learned now it'sready at all times yeah I was
like it's ready.
And then when I got into thesituation I was like is it ready
enough to do 150 pages ofdialogue ready?
Oh, oh my God.
And then a line into the read.
They said I had the second linein the read and I delivered it

(58:45):
in an American accent.
And then they were like wait aminute, did we can the American
accents?
We canned them.
No, it's Aussie.
And they went away.
They talked, they got on thephone, came back in after
speaking to like the producersor whoever like the execs.
They came back in after speakingto like the producers or

(59:06):
whoever like the execs.
They're like yeah, no ozzy.
And so I was like fuck, I onlyhave another 24 hours before I
get on set and we're shooting a155 page, 150 page script, yeah,
filled with dialogue.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
Yeah, you know, oh, my god yeah, so that was wild
yeah, but it was really fun.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
It was really really fun.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
It sounds awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Yeah, I would love that I gotta, I gotta kill a
t-Rex with a pocket knife.
Spoilers, god damn Shit.

Speaker 4 (59:23):
I'm not up to that.
I ruined it.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
But no, it was very fun.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yeah, nice.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah, I think also I have low self-esteem.
Shock horror, an actor with lowself-esteem yeah, but I think
when I was younger I wouldreally devalue my
accomplishments.
Right, I wouldn't celebratethem because I'd be like, well,
I did it, so it can't be thatgreat, right?
You know what I mean?
It was kind of like theunspoken.
It wasn't like cognizant logic,but it was like the unspoken

(59:49):
underlying thought process, andbecause so much of the work that
I did earlier on in my careerwas like really random.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
I think I earlier on in my career was like really
random.
Yeah, I think I didn'tcelebrate my little wins as much
as I looking back on it I'mlike that was awesome like I
yeah so much.
I did like a you know, yeah, andI think that's how I went into
doing this asylum film and justlike loving it, having a
wonderful time and knowing fullwell what it was going to be.
Yeah was because I had come toa place where I was like every
acting job is a wonderfulopportunity to act Like we live

(01:00:23):
this life once.
How wonderful am I getting paidto be a silly little character
in art?

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
You know whether it's good art or bad art.
Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I'm making art, like I'm doing the thing, and so now
as an actor, I think I reallytry and celebrate all my big and
small wins, because you know,it's all, we're lucky.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Yeah, we're so lucky.
It's all really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It's all really really cool, yeah.
But yeah, I think I used to getin my own head about how I
think I had this idea of what aproper actor does.
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
Yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
You book your big job and you do this, or like you're
working and you know you'redoing all these things and it's
like I was like I don't know, Iwas doing cool things, but I
didn't really.
I hadn't really.
I think I always felt like itwasn't enough.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
And then life got easier when I was like, oh, it
doesn't matter, did you noticethat you just kind of kept
chipping away at all thesesmaller things?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
And then one day you looked back and went look at all
the shit I've done Exactly,that's exactly it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
That's kind of how I feel Exactly, and now people are
sort of going.
It seems like you came out ofnowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's just because
you've been chipping away atthese tiny little projects for
so long.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
I think so, and then you're like check it out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Yeah, look at all the things I've done.
I think also like I enjoyacting so much more when I don't
, when I take any of the idea ofpersonal accomplishment out of
it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Like there is no one right way to do it.
Like there is no like when itlike.
I think now, like as a babyactor, I was like I was just so
excited to be in things, butalso I was like I, you know, I
would love to do like somethingthat I'm like super fucking
proud of, but then it would bean imaginary bar of like you
know, like I do one thing andit's like oh well, I've, I've,

(01:02:13):
I've, I've done.
I remember the first time I gota short film a a music video.
That was so exciting yeah, andthen I had done a music video.
So I was like oh, but I want todo the next thing, yeah.
And then I was doing shortfilms and I was like oh, but
I've never done a feature.
And then I had done a featurebut I was like oh, but you know
what I mean.
So it's like it's that likethat creep of personal
expectation, but the older I got, the more I'm like oh, who

(01:02:33):
cares?
yeah I'm having fun.
I'm making.
You know I'm lucky enough tolike get to get paid to do an
acting thing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
And like who gets to do that in life?
Yeah, yeah, and the moment Istarted, I dropped that
expectation for myself.
It all got so much moreenjoyable.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
Yeah, yeah, I remember.
I love looking back on allthose things and all the little
steps that I took and even doingextras work when I was a
13-year-old and being so excitedabout being on a film set at 13
, like being an extra on acommercial when I was a teenager
, same, same.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
I did the same thing and I was like it was the
biggest thing ever.
It was a huge deal.
Yeah, isn't it funny.
And then you look back on itand it's so weird that you're
like and I would never do that.
Yeah, weird that you're likeand I would never do that.
Yeah, yeah, no, but it's likeit's funny where it's like you
only really realize your growthafter, after it's happened.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Yeah, you know, yeah, is there a lesson in that?
I mean, maybe that was it, Ithink that the lesson?

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
yeah, I think the lesson is.
Do you know what I think it is?
Yeah, I think that the lessonis um action always over
inaction because, like, whetheryou know it, you're going to be
growing from it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
Print that.
That's good Shit.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
I don't think that anybody should listen to me,
though I'm not qualified to giveany life advice.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
No, it's okay, I preface every episode.
Disclaimer.
Yeah, there is.
Like seriously, I say there isgoing to be advice in this, but
just take it or leave it,because it's the internet, you
know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
I love that.
No disclaimer I have no ideawhat I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
No one does.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Nobody does.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
Just try it on, try it on and see if it fits.
Yeah, you know, but if not justdon't, we don't know what we're
talking about.
We're not trained, trueUntrained untrained.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
But I think there's something kind of nice in that.
Like don't get me wrong.
There are things wheresometimes I meet people who have
been trained and I'm like, wow,I would have loved to have
learned that.
That's really like I just likesoak it up.
But sometimes I'm like I'm kindof glad there's something
unique in like things that youmake yourself, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
Well, I feel like you and I have created this
approach in our own way, youknow, and I think it's sad when
people lose their individuality.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
And we are excited about this still, because we've
kind of come to theseconclusions ourselves and we've
shaped the way we want to do itin our own way, and I think
there's something in that, youknow.
Totally, we're still bringingour own uniqueness too.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
But it's also always cool.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
I will say, though, it is cool.
Sometimes when I'm aroundpeople who've done the
traditional training, I'm justlike I'm going to write down
every single thing you say,because that's really cool.

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
There's so many different tools.
Steal from them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Do you know what that's actually?
Great advice is to steal every.
There are so many differenttools and they're all different
and they all work differentlyfor different people.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Well, it's like working with Sally on Bring.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
It Back.
Yeah, that was really cool.

Speaker 4 (01:05:39):
Well, I'm going to it yourself, but just observing it
and considering that that mightbe an approach that might work
for you.
I did a play in 2021.
Wait, yeah, what year is it?
2025.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
I did a play in 2021, the Laramie Project.
I've talked about this on thisalready as well, but there were
so many people on there thatwere so good and I just latched
onto them.
Yeah, do it Like my friend.
Nadia, she went to NIDA.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
And when I learnt that, I was like cool, let's
rehearse together.
Yeah, totally, totally, yeah,and I learnt so much from her.
She taught me all aboutstagecraft and script analysis
it was like I might as well soakthis up, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
And there's so much to learn in acting because it's
a subjective field.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
That means there are infinite ways to do it.
Yeah, and there are so manyexperts in the field.
There are so many talented andintelligent people.
Yeah, Like there's.
I feel like I'm just alwayslearning.
Yeah, I Like there's.
I feel like I'm just alwayslearning, Like I'm always like
any set I go on.
I think I said this to you whenwe were on doing just a stills
shoot.
I was like Chris, how do youbreak down a script?
What do you do?
Well, how do you?

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
learn lines, Because I'm always curious.
That's why it's important tohave these conversations.
I think Well for me at leastAgain that's not advice.
You know you don.
Everywhere I go, I'm trying tolearn what I can from the people
that I meet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I feel that and that's why I love.
I actually really love thesedays because I didn't go to a
traditional like three-yeardrama school and because I don't
take I'm not always doingregular classes, but what I do
is I try and go to as manyworkshops with a really diverse

(01:07:17):
array of really talented andinteresting and like just really
people I can learn from.
You know, because I don't knowanything, I just want to learn
from other people.
But everybody uses differenttechniques, yeah, and I pull
upon so many different ones indifferent moments.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
And the ones that resonate better with me and the
ones that don't, but like Ilearn from them all you know, so
I love doing you know coursesand things and just like picking
people's brains.

Speaker 4 (01:07:42):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Reading and watching yeah, interviews and things.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
Yeah, you know, yeah.
And also workshops are goodbecause you actually get to get
feedback.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Yeah, oh, invaluable Doing advice, advice to young
actors.
Go to workshops where you canget feedback, go to ones where
you have acting teachers oractors who work in it, but also
go to ones that are run bycasting directors who will?
Cast you in roles.
Yes, you will get two differenttypes of advice.
Often the casting directors alsoact yeah so like they also have

(01:08:12):
great acting advice, but theycan also give you advice on like
, the business side of things,and also acting is a weird mix
of it's so craft driven, butthere are things that are so
anti-craft that also make itwork.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
You know where.
It's like craft driven in, liketrying to be, like becoming,
you know being a character andbeing present and being in the
moment, but I would say, forexample, a lot of stillness.
That's not supernatural.
Like a lot of characters, a lotof people.
When you look at them, theydon't.
There are a lot of things thatfeel really unnatural, that read
really well on camera.

(01:08:43):
Yeah, and you need to learn tokeep the essence of like the
natural thing while doing theunnatural thing and a casting
director will say, hey, man,like you lick your lips a lot,
or you like raise your eyebrowsa lot, or like you know, there
are lots of little things thatare like a technical note is
like you know, do a little lookbefore you exit the scene, or
like there are so many differentthings that they will pick up
on that will improve your skills.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
So I love doing both and that's all important stuff
to sort of practice outside of ajob, because you can't be
learning that stuff on the job.
I mean you can, but I feel it'sa really good opportunity to
make all those mistakes outsideof the job when you're like
workshops are like to me like arehearsal you know, Totally.

(01:09:26):
Yeah, you know learning thingsabout how you hold yourself If
you, you know, lick your lips alot during a scene or you kind
of do this swaying thing on yourfeet when you're talking or
something on your feet whenyou're talking or something, and
those are the environmentswhere you become self-aware of
those things and try toeliminate them before you get to
a set.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
Because you can't be learning that stuff on the day.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
No, do you know what?
Actually A really big learningcurve for me, god, I feel like
I've said that so many times.
So good luck editing thistogether, chris.
No, that's all right.
This is going to be a hot mess,but you know what actually I'm?

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
not cutting any of that out, oh shit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
I think there was a really distinct moment in my
career where I changed myapproach.
At first I was purely like Ineed to be in the moment, I need
to be this character, and thatwas awesome.
But then I would do takes and Iwould go on set and I would do
things and I'd be like, oh, whyisn't it reading?
I was so heartbroken, I wasweeping, why didn't it look

(01:10:27):
right?
Why wasn't I?
Why did that not read in theway that it felt in the moment?
And it's because there are allthese little things that get in
the way in the way of a visualrepresentation of something.
And so I started doing scenesat home and taping them and
watching them yeah, great, andbeing like, oh, I was really

(01:10:48):
feeling it.
But also, xyz was happening.

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
And I think, to be fair, that's where a lot of I
know that traditional dramaschool, a lot of it is learning
to break down yourcharacteristics, the things like
that that get in the way ofthings, whether it's your tics
or whether it's nervous habitsthat come up or just other

(01:11:12):
things that just get in the wayof visual representation, of
emotional conversation orwhatever it is.
Yeah, and then they try andsort of rebuild you as you know,
someone who can play anything.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
That's what I've heard Apparently, who knows?

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Apparently that's what goes on in there.
That's what I've heard.
Who knows, who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Not me.
Yeah, I'm not educated, but Ithink that was my way of like
getting past that was learningto like I was.
I feel like I couldn't, I wasgetting in the way of myself.

(01:11:48):
I was not fully present.
And then I'd be like wow, butthat looked like I was.
What are the commonalities?

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
What are the?

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
things on both sides that made me made it read better
.

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
I think that's what I like about self-taping, or
since we had to startself-taping.
It sort of forced us to getinto the habit of filming
yourself.
Being your own directorSuddenly yeah, suddenly you're
watching yourself back and goingoh, is that what I do?
Yeah, I didn't know that, andso you do sort of naturally

(01:12:25):
develop these physical habits tomake sure that you're still or
something or I don't know, notmouth breathing or something you
know, yeah all sorts, or evenjust being really aware of the
camera and where the camera is.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Jack actually on the Asylum film.
He was really wonderful forthat because we were shooting
under such time pressures Oftenthere are so many.
He was like a big piece ofadvice is always being really,
really mindful of all of thelittle things in terms of like
knowing exactly your best angle.
He would do things where he'dbe like move your face just like

(01:13:02):
a few millimeters this waybecause the light will catch the
further eye and that will likejust really little.
You know technical things whereit's like you're going to look
that little bit more engaging,yeah, if you're just a bit more
aware of the camera itself.
Yeah, and the lighting itself.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
And the motion and the movement.
Yeah, and that is such a bigthing I know a lot of.
I saw who was it.
It was some actor talking abouthow amazing Jack Nicholson is
with knowing the lens andunderstanding the lens.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
I think that's a big thing that I want to improve in.
Well, that's something.

Speaker 4 (01:13:40):
I've loved about doing self-tapes and like buying
a camera with interchangeablelenses and playing with that
yeah totally I wonder how thiswill look or feel if I can play
with this lens here and you knowmove into this angle and, you
know, Totally Just getting myhead around all that sort of
things.
I think it's helped me a lotwith my performances.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:14:01):
But also with that, with being on set and
understanding you know how youreyes are catching the light, or
all those minute littlemovements and blocking being
okay, with sort of having aquiet word to the DOP and saying
I mean, the series I did theother day we had two cameras and

(01:14:22):
it was really great because thedirector would give us all the
sort of crafty kind of directionand the character direction and
then I'd have these two DOPsthat were kind of competing for
blocking.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
They were working so well together.
You know, he wanted to.
One guy wanted me to sort ofstart moving at this point so
that he could sort of track them, the lead actors, and then then
end up on me at this at thispoint.
But then the other guy wantedme to end up in this point, um,
at this time on this line, andstuff, or move out of the way on
this line so that he can, hecan, you know pull focus on the,

(01:14:57):
on the person playing.
I'm playing opposite, so you gotall that going through your
head as you're taking on all thedirection from the director.
Yeah, but realising that it'sokay to have those little
conversations with the DOP aswell, or just being curious like
, yeah, am I catching the lighton this in this spot?

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
And what looks best, and they will tell you as well.
Yeah, I think it's a mix ofthat.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
It's a mix of learning enough that it can be,
you can have, so you're notfocusing on it, but it's there
and you have an understandingand trusting in the team around
you to do that for you.
Yeah, they'll tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
But also opening up the dynamic in the group to say
I am willing to have theseconversations.
You can tell me this shit, I'lltake direction from you, this
kind of direction from you, andI'll take this kind of direction
from you, but making sure thatthe conversation is open and
you're willing to take thatdirection.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Do you want to know a tip that I have for a socially
anxious person?
If you're too scared to ask,say the DOP is really busy and
they look stressed and thedirector is really stressed and
you don't want to say anything.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Best case scenario be Chris Ask.
Ask and start a duologue.
Second best case scenario havea friend on set not an actual
friend like a crew member thatyou are comfortable talking to,
who has a monitor, and have aneyeline with them.
Like, say, you have a scriptyfriend who has a little monitor
and you can quickly say likewhere's the frame?

(01:16:28):
And then, they can quickly, youknow, give it your way, because
I think most of the time you canask, and it's wonderful, but
there are also times where it'slike you're running out of time.
Yeah, you know, there are alsotimes where it's like you're
running out of time.
Yeah, you know, they're overbudget.
Things are stressful, peopleare stressed and you don't
really want to add to thatstress.
No so sometimes it's nice to beable to just like be aware of
the people who have monitors.
Yeah, Just give a quick likemouth off to the side Like hey,

(01:16:49):
man, like where is?

Speaker 4 (01:16:50):
That's why it's important to introduce yourself
to everyone on set.
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
Like they're really cool people.
I feel like great, like thebest people, yeah, better than
actors.

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
Yeah, by the end of like, I'll do one day on set and
I'll be best friends witheveryone, but I've got, I feel
comfortable to have thatdialogue with everyone yeah and
if, if the dp or director is,you know, preoccupied with
something else, yeah, you've gotthe, the ad or the or the
scripty, or the or the focuspuller just to be like oh yeah,

(01:17:24):
am I in?
Where's what's my what's?

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
yeah, yeah totally yeah, I think also not to talk
about it again.
I just had a great time doingit and also it was pretty recent
, um, but when I was doing itwas the first time I've ever
done stand-in work.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
And I've never done that before.
I've only ever really likeacted.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
But it was like first of all I've worked with Danny
before on that like ARG thing amillion years ago.
Oh, right yeah, and he like, helike directed that and like
co-created that and he's soawesome to work with and he's so
fun and just like wild and cooland creative.
Yeah, um, but also it was a.
I was like this is what anopportunity to like, learn and

(01:18:07):
grow from like a really amazingperson yeah but the cool thing
was it was actually also areally good lesson and like
hitting marks and stuff, becauseI would come in and run the
scene before sally would so thecamera could yeah, you know
could practice hitting the marksbecause it was really dynamic
camera movements and lots ofreally crazy rigs and things
where they wanted to test outmotions.
Like you know, for those who'veseen it, the circle yeah and

(01:18:29):
they had a really cool crazycamera rig that followed the
hand and they got me because Ihave similar proportions to like
test out how big a circleshould do for their arm and
things like that, but it wasreally, really cool to be able
to do that and to focus on likefirst of all you know it's fun.
I would just pretend to beLaura, yeah, and like read,
because you get the sides andquickly read the sides in the

(01:18:49):
morning, and then I'd go andlike do my best, laura,
impersonation and act and runthrough the scene.
But also to practice justhitting all of the marks.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
On like technical things where it's like you know,
there's a scene where, forexample, she has, um, she's
locked everybody out of thebedroom and she comes in, she
ties up her hair, she walks in,she hits one thing.
There's like ollie on the bed.
You know she's walking around,she's doing all these things and
it was just good practice to beable to like pretend to be
laura for a moment and like lowstakes yeah, hit all the I think

(01:19:19):
yeah every opportunity is agood opportunity to practice the
craft.
Absolutely you know no matterwhat, and it's just fun.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
So fun.
I just love doing it yeah, metoo.

Speaker 4 (01:19:29):
Yeah, so good.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
So okay.
So what's coming up for you?

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Well, this year, so earlier this year, I shot a
beautiful little short film withLily Drummond that's coming out
later this year, called theBear Hunt, and it was so
wonderful and it was like themost beautiful wholesome time.
Yep, I also am shooting afeature later this year, which
is very exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
Hell yeah, exciting, yes, which is a very different
vein.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
It's like a horror thriller, psychological thriller
.
So like the opposite.
The other one was more like aheartwarming family comedy Nice
Coming of age, beautiful,wholesome piece.
This one is like more highstakes.
Can you say what it is?
Or is this all?

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
NDAs Don't say what it?
Is.
It's something really fun.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
Great.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
But okay.
So when we are able to find outwhat it is, where can we find
you on social so we can keep upwith everything you're doing?

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
You can find me at Lauren Coop on Instagram.
Instagram Lauren Coop.

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
K-O-O-P.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Yeah, Lauren underscore Coop, I think Is it.
God, I'm shit Did you check?
That.
Yeah, Lauren underscore Coop.
Say that again Laurenunderscore Coop.
I want to specify for viewers,if you choose to keep this in,
Chris, that it has taken me.
We've done two takes of metrying to say my Instagram
handle and I've had to havemultiple goes at getting it out

(01:20:50):
of my mouth.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
You're not the only one.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
No, but what I mean is I'm so bad at socials.
This is actually maybe the areaI could improve my game the
most in acting.

Speaker 4 (01:20:59):
Plugging yourself, plugging myself on socials.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
I'm so bad at it.

Speaker 4 (01:21:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
I'm like horrifically bad at it.
So yeah, that's fine, that'sfollow me.

Speaker 4 (01:21:08):
Well, it's because you're actually asking, yeah,
you're actually asking somethingfrom people now, yeah, which I
don't like it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
It goes against everything we believe in about
ourselves or if you want, youcan follow me, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
More importantly, everybody should be listening to
Go, Pluck Yourself.
Yeah and follow.
Is it featuring Chris Gunn?

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
Featuring Chris Gunn is my Instagram.
Yes, featuring underscore Chris.
Underscore Gunn with one N.
Thank you very much.
Anyone that wants to credit mein anything and give me double
Ns yeah bastards, you heard ithere first and go pluck yourself
pod.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
I love the name very fun, man.

Speaker 4 (01:21:44):
Thanks so much for having me oh dude, this was
amazing oh, it's so fun you'vegot a great voice, by the way oh
, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
So do you?
No, I don't, yeah, no, that'smy worst asset?

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
what?

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
nah, I hate my voice.
Nah, I don't want to do this.

Speaker 4 (01:21:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean when I sing it's better,
but like my speaking voice,you've got a great speaking
voice.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
You're so articulate.
I love doing voiceover work.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
It is so much fun and I would love to do more of it.
It's just, it's the best, it'sa good time.

Speaker 4 (01:22:12):
I feel like we've only just scratched the surface
on things to talk about.
Yeah, you're coming back, right?

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Yes, yeah, hell yeah, love that Cool Anytime you want
to hear me ramble.

Speaker 4 (01:22:22):
Thanks so much, man.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
Thanks.
Oh, my God the best.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
How good was that.
We had to stop eventually, butI feel like we could have
chatted for hours and hopefullyshe comes back and we can keep
chatting.
It's, you know, such anintelligent actor.
Yeah, I could pick our brainsfor hours.
If you're enjoying the show,the best way you can support it
is by hitting follow orsubscribe on whatever platform
you're listening or watching on.

(01:22:48):
And hey, if you really likewhat I'm doing here and this
podcast fires you up creativelyor makes you feel a little less
alone in your creative endeavorsand you feel like shouting me a
pint well, I don't drink, butyou can buy me a hypothetical
beer by signing up to thepatreon.
Patreoncom.
Slash go pluck yourself.
Pod.
Theme music is by my verytalented cousin, nick gunn.

(01:23:09):
You can check him out atsoundcloud soundcloudcom slash
nick gunn.
He's a genius.
Thank you so much for listening, guys.
I'll be back next week withanother excellent episode.
If you haven't caught, go checkout the other episodes.
There's some real gold in there, guys.
Okay, guys, happy acting.
Break a leg.
Break both your legs.
I'll see you next week.
I hope you land that role.

(01:23:31):
My name is Chris Gunn and hey,go pluck yourself.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 5 Lauren Koopowitz: Building an Acting Career on Your Own Terms

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Ep 5 Lauren Koopowitz: Building an Acting Career on Your Own Terms

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