August 14, 2024 • 48 mins
Send Me Questions on Attachment
In today's episode, we delve into the complexities of the fearful avoidant attachment style, shedding light on its profound impacts on relationships and personal growth. I navigate the intricate behaviors associated with this attachment style, exploring how fear and anxiety can shape our interactions and emotional responses.
I also address the significant struggles with boundaries and trust that often accompany fearful avoidant individuals, providing insights into how these challenges manifest in daily life. I emphasize the importance of recognizing these patterns, fostering self-awareness and compassion as pivotal steps toward healing.
We also explore the process of healing attachment ruptures and trauma, unveiling techniques and practices that can facilitate recovery and promote secure attachments. Listeners will find solace in discussions about the importance of hope and encouragement, revealing how individuals can reframe their narratives and embrace healthier relational dynamics.
Through expert insights and heartfelt discussions, this episode aims to empower those grappling with their attachment styles, offering practical tools and unwavering support on their journey toward healing and connection. Tune in to discover a pathway to understanding yourself and nurturing deep, meaningful relationships grounded in trust and love.
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My mission is to help you understand your attachment style to learn how you can heal from the pain you’ve experienced in your relationship with God, the church and yourself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
All right, everyone, welcome back to the God
Attachment Healing Podcast.
I'm excited that you're here,as we've been going through this
series of learning about thedifferent attachment styles
We've done the anxiousattachment style, we've done the
avoidant attachment style andtoday I'm going to be talking
about the disorganizedattachment style, or also known
as the fearful, avoidanceattachment style.
(00:27):
So we'll go through somecharacteristics, some examples,
some common issues that come upfor them in relationships, and
then we'll look at some ways toresolve some of those issues.
And, yeah, so this has beenreally really great series
because, again, a lot of thework that I do is
attachment-based,attachment-related, and it's
(00:49):
some of the most insightfulinformation that you can have
and research on how you interactin relationships.
Actually, I had one of mysupervisors.
She called it the not just anattachment style, she called it
an adaptation style, because weadapt to the people that we
encounter and that can beadapting in a secure way, in an
(01:11):
anxious way, in an avoidant wayand, in today's case, in a
fearful, avoidant way, which isreally not attaching to another
person, and we'll discuss someof that.
But, again, if you're here,again, thank you for tuning in.
I appreciate your support andfeel free to share this episode
with other people who arewanting to understand their
(01:31):
attachment styles.
I'll continue to discussspecific issues that each
attachment style encounters.
So I'm going to talk about someof those today, but I think I'm
going to start doing some otherseries on attachment and, for
those of you who are listening,I'm going to make a slight shift
in the content of this podcast.
(01:53):
So I am in the last year of mycoursework for my doctoral
degree and so I'm trying tonarrow down a specific topic,
and it's going to have to dowith attachment.
I've been studying this foryears now, but I've been trying
to get an angle here as to whatwould be best to research, and
(02:18):
I'm looking at another professorshared with me about that.
There's new research being doneon divine forgiveness, which is
accepting the forgiveness ofGod when we are broken in our
relationship with him, whenthere's a rupture in the
attachment.
So I'm trying to see if any ofthe attachment styles are more
prone to receive thatforgiveness and are they also
better at doing self-forgivenessand other forgiveness.
(02:39):
So I'm really excited aboutwhat I'm going to find and I
think that's going to be a gooddirection to take this research,
this dissertation topic.
So that's what I'm thinking ofright now.
So, as you see, in the nextcoming weeks I'll be probably
doing some videos on that andsharing some research articles
with you and hopefully it's nottoo nerdy for you.
(03:02):
Hopefully that you're able toenjoy the information that I'm
reading and, yeah, I'm lookingforward to that.
So, again, leave a review, sendme comments, send me questions,
send me topics.
I'm always open to touching ontopics that you guys are
interested in listening to.
So, yeah, let's get intotoday's topic, on the.
(03:22):
I'm going to call it thefearful, avoidant attachment
style, because that's prettymuch more accurate than
disorganized.
Disorganized also just kind ofseems that well, I mean, it
would fall into place, becauseit's the idea of not knowing
really what to feel, what tothink, how to relate to people
who start to get close to you.
Okay, so let's discuss some ofthe characteristics of a
(03:47):
disorganized attachment style.
And, as I was thinking aboutthis topic with those who have a
fearful, avoidant attachmentstyle, there's usually a trauma
in their life, a significantlevel of trauma in their
childhood.
Sometimes it can be very recent, but typically it's childhood
(04:10):
wounds and traumas that havemultiplied over the years.
Right that they've hadconsistent interactions and
relationships where they willalways hurt in some way, shape
or form, where they will alwayshurt in some way, shape or form.
And again, abuse.
Specifically, whether it bephysical, emotional, verbal,
spiritual.
The repetitiveness ofexperiencing abuse is going to
(04:34):
be similar to repetitiveness ofwithholding needs that you have.
So in childhood.
For those who have experiencedchildhood trauma, it can be one
of those two things Either youwere physically, sexually,
emotionally, verbally abusedright on a consistent basis for
(04:56):
a long period of time, and it'saffected the way that you view
yourself and the way that youview others.
The other part of it is needsthat you had were withheld, so
maybe you didn't experience anyof the other types of abuse, but
there was neglect andwithholding or the inability to
provide for certain needs thatyou had growing up right.
(05:18):
So emotional needs, physicalneeds, spiritual needs, any of
those types of things.
If you didn't get that as achild, that also has similar
effects in regarding regardingtrauma right, whether it be
through abuse or through neglectand withdrawing of needs.
It's going to have very similarimpact on how the person
relates or how they viewthemselves and how they view
(05:40):
other people.
As a quick recap, you know whenyou have these different
attachment styles.
You have kind of the views thatthey have of themselves and the
views that they have of others.
So a secure attachment becausetheir needs have been met by
their primary caregivers andthat has been consistent and
they've experienced that in mostof their relationships.
Right, they're going to have apositive view of self.
(06:02):
I have needs and my needs areworthy of being met and I have
people in my life who have beenable to meet those needs and
I've seen this on a consistentbasis.
Maybe it was one person or twoperson who weren't able to do
that, but in general my needswere being met and in general I
feel good about myself.
They have a good self-esteem asa Christian.
(06:24):
They're able to see that Goddoes love them.
They don't question it, theyunderstand it, they receive it
and even more so because Goduses people in their lives, or
has used people in their lives,to confirm that view that they
are important and they arevaluable in God's eyes.
So it's a secure attachment.
The anxious person has a lowview of self or negative view of
(06:47):
self and a positive view ofothers, right, so in
relationships they question alot as to maybe I did something
wrong and that's why my needsare not being met.
That's why they're not able tomeet my needs.
There's something wrong with me, but they're good.
You know, I really love them, Iappreciate them.
Look how great they are, youknow, they're just such a great
(07:08):
person.
So they they kind of put otherpeople on a pedestal and have
people pleasing tendencies, butas they're doing that, they're
doing it to gain favor in theeyes of the person that they're,
that they're with, beromantically or friendship, and
with God it's kind of the samething the more I do, the more
accepted I'm going to be by God,right?
(07:29):
So they become very religiousand sometimes legalistic in
their behaviors to obtain favorfrom the Lord.
Those who are avoidant they havea low view or a negative view
of others and a high or positiveview of themselves.
So these are the highlyindependent, successful people
who would pull themselves up bythe bootstraps and they're able
(07:52):
to conquer anything that you putin front of them, because
that's what they've had to do,whether it's because their needs
weren't being met as childrenor that they were abused.
They didn't have anyone toreally depend on, so they had to
depend on themselves.
They had to find ways for themto create space and room to grow
.
So they just learned not todepend on anyone else.
(08:13):
No one else is trustworthy, noone's able to meet my needs, so
I have to find ways to be ableto meet my own needs.
So they become very driven,very successful, very type A and
, yeah, they take care ofbusiness, right.
But on the flip side to that,they don't have any deep,
intimate emotional relationshipswith people, nor with God.
Right, they respect God, theyunderstand who God is, they kind
(08:36):
of see themselves as goodpeople.
You know that they don't reallyneed God's forgiveness, but you
know they understand that it'ssomething that the Bible teaches
and they can accept that truth.
Right, but they don't reallyneed God's forgiveness, but you
know they understand that it'ssomething that the Bible teaches
and they can accept that truth.
Right, but they don't have anintimate emotional relationship
with the Lord like feeling closeto Jesus.
Right, they don't have that.
But, as we'll discuss today, nowwe have the fearful avoidant,
(08:57):
which is a combination of theanxious and the avoidant
attachment styles they strugglewith trying to figure out how do
I actually feel?
What is my body feeling?
What is my mind thinking?
How am I relating to people.
Why do I feel so triggered allthe time?
I want closeness, but I don'tknow what to do with it.
When it arrives, they have allthese mixed emotions and
(09:20):
contradictory feelings andthoughts that it confuses them
and it places a lot of stress onthem.
I mean, that's what trauma does.
Trauma places your body in astate of confusion, right, your
body is saying one thing andyour mind is trying to
communicate something else.
Your body is feeling a certainway and your mind is trying to
(09:40):
make sense of why you're feelingthat way, and there may not be
any logical reason in thatmoment for why your body is
experiencing that or why you'refeeling that way.
Right, but again, if you thinkabout childhood and needs that
weren't being met, you might bein survival mode, and that is
typically what happens forpeople who have experienced
(10:02):
trauma.
So what are some of thecharacteristics of the fearful,
avoidant attachment style?
Well, something that I justalluded to right now
contradictory or erraticbehavior in relationships, right
?
So a common example of thiscould be the person who wants to
be close.
(10:22):
Right, they want you to be withthem, but every time that
you're with them, they also geteasily triggered or easily upset
with you.
Everything bothers them.
They become anxious.
When you're close to them, theystart to question.
They kind of ask thesequestions of do you really love
me?
And you could say yes and youcould show them multiple
examples of you loving them, butthey don't believe it right, so
(10:43):
they say no.
But they don't believe it right, so they say no, you really
don't.
They kind of self-sabotage therelationship and then, when they
do that, they push you away andthen they want you back.
So there's this back and forthof wanting closeness, wanting
intimacy, but at the same timenot knowing what to do with it
when they have it.
And gosh, I mean, if you canimagine.
(11:06):
You know I do a lot of work withtrauma with our students and
it's such a hard place to be inbecause your body and your mind
are trying to make sense of eachother.
Right, you know, trauma is verymuch body oriented, like your
body is experiencing things thatyou don't fully understand
because it doesn't make sensewithin the context that you're
(11:26):
in.
Right, you could be dating orseeing or being in a friendship
with someone who is a secureperson, but you don't understand
that because the thinking isgoing to be why is this person
with me.
Why do they even like me?
Like I have all these flaws andall these things, but you know,
I really love them, I reallycare about them.
But why do they even like me?
Like I have all these flaws andall these things, but you know,
(11:47):
I really love them, I reallycare about them, but why do I
also keep pushing them away?
Right?
So there's these contradictoryfeelings and behaviors where, um
, they don't know what to do.
When someone is able to connectwith them and be close to them
and ask them questions, right,sometimes they'll be very open
and vulnerable and then they'llpull back and feel like they
share too much and they'll startto question like, should I have
(12:08):
shared that much?
And they completely close off.
So it's a very confusingsituation for them to try to
make sense of all of that.
They don't deem themselvesworthy.
Again, classic characteristic ofa fearful avoidant is going to
be a negative view of self I'mnot worthy, I don't deserve this
, all of these different typesof messages and at the same time
(12:29):
, have a negative view of otherpeople where no one's able to
meet my needs, no one caresabout me, even though they may
have a lot of evidence thatpeople do love them.
Right, and usually because thefearful avoidant is kind of
rough around the edges or iskind of distant but then seeks
and desires closeness, almost toa point of, you know, kind of
(12:50):
suffocating the relationship ina sense, and it goes back and
forth.
People tend to move away fromthat because they don't know
what to expect with this person.
Right, and it can be verydifficult and very straining to
experience that in a in arelationship.
Right, they're very.
The fearful avoidant is fearfulof both seeking closeness and
(13:13):
maintaining distance.
Right, it's this idea of I wantto be close but I also don't
want you too close.
Where you know me too much,right, I want you to know me but
also not know me fully.
Just maybe like 30%, and thenmaybe, if you pass that next
test, maybe we'll go up to 40%,then 50, then 60.
Oh wait, 60%, that's too muchright.
(13:35):
Actually, I'm going to close upnow and I'll get you back down
to 40, 30%, right?
So that's kind of the thinkingbehind it is that they don't
really know what they want.
So that's kind of the thinkingbehind it is that they don't
really know what they wantbecause it's all new to them
Safety, security, being able tomeet their needs like it's new
to them.
You know, sometimes they've hadto fend for themselves and
provide for themselves and theycan, you know, really appreciate
(13:57):
the fact that they were able todo that.
And then other times someonehas been able to meet their
needs and they appreciate that,but it hasn't been consistent
enough for them to really reallybelieve it.
They have a lot of difficulty inregulating their emotions and
responses, so they're veryreactive to difficult situations
, right?
One thing that I've said quiteoften on the podcast is that you
(14:22):
don't get to learn about aperson's attachment style by
seeing how they interact witheveryone around them, especially
in public.
Right, you know more aboutsomeone's attachment style as
you get closer and closer tothem.
And, specifically, when thereis a stressful situation that
arises within the relationshipright, conflict, anything like
that that's where you start tosee how does the person respond
(14:45):
when they are under stress orare needing to encounter
conflict, needing to addresssomething.
Right, that's when you reallyget to see what the attachment
style is.
Right, the anxious person isgonna want to address issues
right away.
They feel like it's all theirfault and they wanna figure it
out.
They wanna problem solve.
They want to resolve it.
(15:06):
At that moment the avoidant isgoing to say, no, I need some
time to think about it.
But really they just don't wantto engage their emotions.
So they pull away, they closeoff.
The fearful avoidant experiencesall of that and they don't know
where they land.
So they're not one or the other, they're both.
And the thing is that it'srandom.
You don't know when they'regoing to respond which way.
(15:26):
So that makes it difficult forthem to not just understand and
identify their emotions but thento regulate their emotions
right.
And a common problem or issuewith fearful avoidance is that
they don't.
They have a hard timeunderstanding how they actually
feel right, because their bodyfeels a certain way and their
(15:49):
mind is thinking that they feela certain way.
And again, with all thatbackground, with trauma and
consecutive painfulrelationships, you can't.
It's hard for them to makesense of all of that right.
So that's why consistency ofgood behaviors towards them
loving, security, meeting needslike that needs to be so
(16:12):
consistent for a long period oftime so that they can start to
see that people actually do careabout them.
I always say that the antidoteto helping someone move from
anxious avoidance, fearfulavoidance.
To secure is to spend timearound secure people, to spend
time with the Lord, to spendtime in Christian community.
(16:34):
All of these things canreinforce this idea of obtaining
a secure attachment style.
But the difficulty with fearfulavoidance is that they need
long periods of time ofconsistent good behavior that is
oriented towards meeting theirneeds.
(16:55):
And so it takes time andusually people don't stick
around that long.
So after a short while could bea month, could be two months,
could be three months peoplestart to pull away because they
can't deal with the reactiveresponses that the fearful
avoidant has.
They tend to vacillate and Ikind of alluded to this earlier
(17:16):
between approach and avoidance.
There's a history of unresolvedtrauma or inconsistent
caregiving experiences, whichI've been talking about.
There's a lack of unresolvedtrauma or inconsistent
caregiving experiences, whichI've been talking about, and
there's a lack of coherentattachment strategies.
They don't know how to relateto people, right, because
they're always questioning isthis person going to love me,
(17:37):
right?
Is this person is it worth it?
Is it worth it for me to startinvesting in this relationship,
knowing that it's not going togo anywhere, knowing that it's
going to end, knowing thateventually they're not going to
like me anymore, knowing thatthey're going to think I'm too
much right.
So they have all of thesethoughts going on in their heads
that it freezes them.
(17:59):
Sometimes they don't know whatto do and the times that they do
act it always kind of blowsthings up.
Know what to do and the timesthat they do act it always kind
of blows things up.
Everything always gets heatedand it turns really bad and
creates a lot of chaos for them,for the other person.
So they don't have any coherentattachment strategy, they don't
know how to actually relate toother people.
(18:21):
And it makes sense.
I mean, could you imagine I'mtrying to think of a good
example of this of somethingthat a person needs and they
know that they need it and theywant it, but when they have it
they don't know exactly what todo with it.
I mean that can be sofrustrating.
Here's a good example.
Maybe it's a mild example, butit's a good example.
(18:44):
You know I like playing sports.
So there's three sports thatI'll play any time of the day
that I enjoy.
So I enjoy football, I enjoybasketball, I enjoy MMA.
So if I'll play any time of theday that I enjoy, so I enjoy
football, I enjoy basketball, Ienjoy MMA.
So if I'm doing any of thosethree things, I feel confident
and competent enough to do thosethings and to do them well.
Right.
But if I need to learn how toplay golf, I'll try to learn,
(19:10):
but I'm not going to be good atit and I'm going to be very
easily frustrated with not beingable to do it.
Actually, my brother, heactually golfs and he's gotten
pretty good at it, and the timesthat he's asked me to go play,
or the times that I played withhim, it's so interesting to me
how frustrated I get because Ican't get it, because in my mind
, I'm thinking to myself Ishould be able to get this, I
(19:36):
should be able to know how toswing, I should be able to point
the ball in that direction andmake it in the hole, right, I
should be able to do that, but Ican't and it frustrates me.
So it's something that I feelthat I should be able to do and
it's something that, if I wantto spend time with my brother,
with people that I care about,that I want to enjoy doing and
that I want to learn how to do,but I can't, I feel like I can't
(19:59):
, right.
So I just don't try it anymore.
So that's a very basic or smallexample related to sports, but
in relationships it's kind ofthe same thing.
I know that I need to relate topeople.
I know that I need to surroundmyself with people who are
secure in their attachment, whoare respectful and who are kind
and who are able to regulatetheir emotions Like.
(20:22):
I know that.
But when I try to do thosethings, it doesn't come as
easily for me as it does forthem.
So it's better for me not totry.
Right?
This is the fearful, avoidanttalking that they know that they
want and that they need to bewith good people, with people
with Christian community.
(20:42):
They need to be closer to theLord.
They know that they need thesethings, but they don't know or
feel competent enough to do itright.
They don't feel like I'mactually drawing close, like
they're actually drawing closerto the Lord.
They don't feel like they'redoing things right.
They don't feel like theyreally understand people in
their community, their Christiancommunity and their churches
(21:05):
right.
They don't feel like theyunderstand their families.
So they constantly are in thisstate of back and forth of
either.
I'm going to avoid the thingthat makes me uncomfortable, the
thing that I need as much as Iwant it.
I'm either going to avoid it or, if I try it, I'm going to be
frustrated when I try it Again,even as I'm talking about it.
You know, I can just imaginehow frustrating it must be for
(21:28):
someone to feel like they don'tknow what they're doing or feel
like, every time they do try todo it, that they're doing
everything wrong.
So yeah, so that kind ofcaptures the idea for what a
fearful avoidant may experienceand some characteristics of that
.
Now, some examples of this canbe displaying intense and
(21:49):
unpredictable emotionalresponses.
So I kind of mentioned thatearlier.
Engaging in self-sabotagingbehaviors in relationships right
, you'll often see a lot ofself-fulfilling prophecies with
the fearful avoidant right Intheir minds.
They already have the beliefthat things are not going to
(22:09):
work out, that eventually thisfriend is going to work out,
that eventually this friend isgoing to leave them, that
eventually they're going to findsomeone better than them,
someone who is more accomplishedor who's more competent, who's
better at socializing with otherpeople, right, and so that's
what they believe.
They just believe that at somepoint people are just going to
(22:30):
leave.
You know, they don't believethat anyone's going to stay with
them for the long haul, and whywould they believe that someone
would when they haven'texperienced that right?
(22:52):
So, again, when it comes totherapy work with people who
have experienced trauma, like,they need such a consistency of
positive behaviors andengagement, and relating to and
for a long period of time, rightAgain, depending on the work
that's being done, both insideand outside of session.
They can, you know, shortenmaybe that time, that time gap,
but for the most part they needit to be long-term, right.
(23:13):
That's why you try to connectthem with people like who's
who's the most secure person orthe most, the person that you
enjoy being around the most orthat you would like to be around
the most.
Get close to that person, justspend time around them, right,
talk to them and just see how doyou feel, how does your body
feel when you're around thisperson, right?
(23:33):
So you try to find a safe, acorrective attachment figure in
their daily life so that you canencourage them to engage that
relationship a little bit more,because what happens sometimes
is that they'll try to do thatwith everyone, and so in one day
they could interact with fivepeople and all five of those
people, reject them or treatthem horribly or just don't
(23:54):
acknowledge them, and itreinforces the belief that, see,
I'm not important.
You know all these five people,they, they didn't have time for
me, they didn't do this or youknow it didn't work out right.
But if you encourage them to goto one person on multiple
occasions throughout a certainperiod of time, at some point
that healthy person is going torub off on them, right, they're
(24:15):
going to start to see hey tothis person.
It was a little bit hardinitially, but now they've kind
of stuck around with me, rightthat they're kind of here and
they're present and they're well, it's cool to see how they're
relating to me.
They're just treating me like anormal person.
You know, I've neverexperienced this before, right,
so I would encourage that.
Right, having a small group,maybe two, maybe three people
(24:36):
that you can focus on.
That are healthy, correctiveattachment figures in their life
.
It doesn't have to be a parent,it could be a friend, it can be
a pastor, a leader, a sibling,right, just whoever they find
that they feel safe around, thattheir body feels calm and
relaxed and, just, you know,safe with.
So that's what I wouldencourage.
(24:59):
They feel confused or conflictedabout intimacy and autonomy,
like they know that they need tobe independent but at the same
time, they want to be close toother people.
So they can be very driven atone point and then just very
dependent on others at othertimes, right, they struggle with
(25:20):
identity and self-concept dueto past trauma.
So this is where shame comesinto play, right?
Shame is the identity piecethat almost everyone who
experiences trauma has, right,that they believe something
about themselves due to theirpast trauma.
So when your needs aren't metas a young child, you know, even
(25:43):
going into teenagers, if yourneeds have not been met, you
feel that you're not importantenough, that you're not worthy
enough, because if you were,then people would want to meet
your needs, right?
So what that does is thatcreates this belief system of
you.
Know, people are just notdependable, right?
And maybe there's somethingwrong with me too.
What is it about me that peopledon't want to meet my needs,
right?
So, again, going back to thataspect of negative view of self
(26:07):
and negative view of others,right, others are not capable of
loving me.
Well, others don't have theresources or don't have the
ability to love me.
Well, they don't want to loveme, so there's something wrong
with them.
But also, I wonder, if there'ssomething wrong with me, what do
(26:28):
I say?
What do I do?
What am I doing right nowthat's pushing people away?
What's wrong with me, right?
So, again, those conversationsare constantly in their mind.
So they take on the identity ofI'm not worthy, I'm not good
enough for other people, right,so that's a very common shame
belief that happens for peoplewho have experienced trauma,
(26:54):
belief that happens for peoplewho have experienced trauma,
right.
So now, how does this show up,then, in their relationships?
Right, what are some commonissues that they encounter in
their relationships?
Again, this could be romanticand it can be in friendships,
but one of the big ones ischallenges in establishing
boundaries and expectationsright.
And this makes sense, right, asyou think about it.
Why would someone who isfearful avoid and experience
(27:17):
difficulties setting boundariesand expectations right?
So they know, in order to berespected, in order to be loved,
like I have to set some levelof boundaries, like I can't just
let people walk over me.
But then, if I set thoseboundaries, what if that pushes
them away?
Right?
So they have that struggle of,hey, I don't like how this
person treated me, and they'vedone that multiple times.
(27:39):
I need to tell them that theycan't do that anymore.
Or I just need to spend lesstime away from them, because I
really don't like how I feelwhen they do that to me, right?
When they don't return my texts, or they don't return my calls,
or they cancel my art plans.
You know all of these differentthings.
So with that, it's okay.
(27:59):
So I need to establish thatboundary for myself, but at the
same time, I really want to bewith them.
I want to be around them.
So if I set this boundary,ain't that going to push them
away?
Like, won't that make them hateme and think that I'm just
being too petty about thesethings?
Right?
So they're going back and forth.
They can't establish boundariesbecause they're afraid that if
(28:22):
they do, people are going topull away.
Right?
And again remember that's therecurring theme is that people
have not stayed long enough.
So if they're already notstaying long enough and I
haven't set any boundaries, nowI'm going to set boundaries and
push more people away.
Right?
This is what they believe thatif I set boundaries now, no
one's going to want to be withme for sure.
Right?
(28:43):
So not realizing that, settingboundaries and doing that for a
consistent amount of time isgoing to draw in the people that
are able to respect thoseboundaries right.
Again, this can only be done inthe context of a healthy, secure
attachment.
Like, they need to have someonein their life who can
demonstrate to them that theyare going to be able to respect
(29:04):
those boundaries and, even asthey set those boundaries, that
the other person is still goingto continue to want to meet up
with them and want to spend timewith them.
Right?
That is going to change the waythat they perceive themselves
and the way that they perceiveother people, right?
So, hopefully, start movinginto more.
They start moving into morepositive direction positive
(29:25):
expectation of themselves and ofothers, of themselves and of
others.
This is a big one here the ideaof trusting other people, right.
Difficulty trusting others andthemselves, and that's important
, right.
Someone who has a fearful,avoidant attachment style will
look back at their relationshipsand they are going to say two
(29:47):
things One man, everyone thatI've ever encountered and I've
been in a relationship or that Ihad a friend for this amount of
time, like they all left me.
They're all jerks, right.
They're all horrible people.
Why would they do that to me.
What's wrong with them?
(30:09):
Right, and then, right afterthat, follow that with what's
wrong with me.
What is it with them?
And then, right after that,follow that with what's wrong
with me.
What is it about me that's notkeeping them around?
So is it me?
Do I not have the ability tochoose good people, to choose
the right people, safe people inmy life?
And here my counselor is askingme to find someone who's safe.
(30:32):
I don't even know what thatlooks like, right, and that's
where the counselor can helpthem.
Okay, well, let's look at somebehaviors.
You know who in your life doesA, b and C and you could talk
about those things right.
Who serves other people and whodoes it consistently?
Who do you want to be like?
Right?
Is there someone in your churchthat you admire, that you look
up to?
Right, so you help them exploresome safe, secure people in
(30:55):
their lives.
But they don't trust themselvesto make that decision right, so
they will need some help earlyon to be able to identify that.
But then also the other peoplethat they select.
What we're hoping for is thatthey're able to establish that
expectation of your needs areimportant to me and I do want to
meet them, and here's how I canmeet them right, so that they
(31:16):
can start to establish a levelof trust in other people.
Right, we don't want them totrust everyone.
It's not blind trust to otherpeople.
We want them to trust safepeople.
Okay, but they have difficultywith that since they don't trust
themselves in being able toidentify those people.
We talked about emotionalregulation, but an important
part of that is how do theyhandle conflict, right?
(31:38):
So the reason why you want tobe good at regulating your
emotions is so that when stressor conflict arises, you're able
to manage your own emotions andengage in that situation in a
more productive manner.
Okay, these people who havefearful, avoidant attachment
style, they don't know how toregulate their emotions, so they
(32:01):
kind of explode or they're veryreactive or they completely
shut down from tense situations,right?
So if there's high stress, ifthere's conflict arising, even
the anticipation of it right,their bodies anticipate that
there's going to be conflict atsome point.
So they're always living inthis state of high alertness and
(32:21):
anxiety and stress and pain andeverything that you can think
of, because they're anticipatingthat something is going to go
wrong.
They're expecting it, right,and again, based on their
history, it would make sense.
They fear intimacy andvulnerability, right?
So when you talk about, well,you need to be more vulnerable
(32:43):
and you need, you know that'sthe only way to develop
closeness.
They don't understand thatbecause the times that they have
been vulnerable if they have inthe past, it's either been used
against them or when they werein their most vulnerable state,
they were left to meet their ownneeds and no one came to attend
them.
Right Again, go back to theirchildhood and they see this
repeated as they get older.
So for them, vulnerability isnot worth it to gain intimacy,
(33:12):
because it's a high risk forthem.
I want intimacy, like they wantintimacy, but when you say
vulnerability and share how youfeel and do all of these things,
for them it's like no, I can't.
If I do that, it's just goingto lead me to more hurt.
So why do that?
Maybe I'd just pull back.
So they avoid intimacy as muchas they want it.
(33:33):
Right, they want intimacy, butthey have not seen vulnerability
help them in obtaining that.
And, lastly, patterns ofengaging in harmful or abusive
relationships.
So, unfortunately, you know oneof the sad things about this
because they can't identify whathealthy looks like, they're
(33:55):
always in unhealthyrelationships, right, which are
harmful or abusive, whether itbe them towards other people or
others towards them.
It's just a relationship ofchaos, right?
Everyone's hurting everyone,you know.
This is why high conflictcouples typically have those
this kind of fearful, avoidantattachment style.
(34:18):
They're both traumatizedindividuals and they are with
each other because it makessense how they're each
experiencing their world andthey both have the same
expectations for themselves.
So conflict, high conflict,strong emotions, all of these
(34:38):
things that is just what seemsnormal to them, right?
Maybe they grew up in a chaotichousehold where that was the
norm Yelling, screaming, namecalling, hitting, all these
different things If that wastheir norm.
Even if they experienced thatin their relationship at a
lesser degree, it still feelsnormal for them and in their
(34:59):
mind they rationalize and theythink well, it's better than
what my parents used to do orwhat I saw when I was growing up
, so it must be good, right?
So just because it was slightlybetter, or better than the most
horrible situation that you canthink of, they see that as an
improvement and they stay in therelationship because it's not
as bad as what they saw growingup or it's not as bad as their
(35:23):
previous relationship.
So they'll remain in thoseharmful, abusive relationships.
And it's really sad againbecause you want people to heal.
I heard I mean, I just finishedreading this and this is
something that I believe myself,but a licensed therapist was
talking about you don't have tobe fully healed to go into a
(35:45):
relationship.
You don't have to be perfect orhave everything down perfectly
to enter all the relationshipskills and conflict resolution.
You don't do that perfectly onyour own.
You have to be in arelationship right.
So there's a misconception inthe field where people say well,
(36:05):
first you got to heal byyourself before you enter into a
relationship.
You know it's partially true.
You need to be doing the work todevelop self-awareness and
understand what your triggersare, understand how you operate,
how you deal with conflict, howyou deal with stressors in your
life, right, you have tounderstand those things.
But the only way to actuallyknow if you are understanding
(36:27):
them is to be in relationshipright.
So there is a space where youhave to engage relationships or
be in a relationship Again.
It can be a friendship, it canbe with your sibling, with your
parents, in a romanticrelationship, but you need a
space to practice this newunderstanding that you have of
your triggers and of things,that of how stress affects you,
(36:50):
right?
What happens, are you able toread, are you able to identify
the emotions, are you able toregulate those emotions, and so
on, right, so you want to havebetter understanding, but you
can't practice that in isolation.
You have to do that inrelationship, okay?
So when it comes to therapy, andhow do you actually address
(37:10):
these things, you know, one ofthe biggest things that you want
to do is helping the personregulate their emotions right,
developing skills to managethose strong emotions when they
come.
So there's a couple of thingsthat go into that.
First, it's what's their rangeof emotion, okay, meaning, um.
First, it's what's their rangeof emotion, Okay, meaning their
emotional expressions.
(37:30):
Is it stunted, is it limited oris it expansive?
Like you're going to see peoplewho are either shut down
completely and they experiencedjust a small range of emotions
like sadness or anger, right,and that's it.
Um.
Then you have a larger range ofemotion where the person can go
from completely erupt in aviolent rage and then completely
(37:54):
shut down, but they alsoexperience everything in between
, where sometimes they're happy,sometimes they're sad, other
times they're moody and thenother times they're overly
excited and sometimes they'remanic.
So they have all this broadrange of emotions, overly
excited and sometimes they'remanic.
So they have all this broadrange of emotions and so you
(38:16):
want to kind of identify howmuch is their range?
Right, and then, once you seewhat their range is, then you
say, okay, can you identify whatyou're actually feeling?
Like?
Do you feel angry or are youafraid of something?
Right, that's a really cleardistinction.
And oftentimes anger is, orstems from fear of something
right, a fear of losing arelationship.
So the person becomes angry andtries to control the situation.
(38:38):
Right, so can the personidentify a difference between
anger and fear, or fear andanxiety?
So you start to help themidentify.
So what does that actually feellike?
Like, how would you describethe emotion that you're
experiencing right now?
What does your body feel likeat this moment?
Right, so they need to tie whattheir body's experiencing with
(38:59):
the emotion that they're tryingto describe.
Right, because that's gonna helpthem again identify their
emotion and then know what theyneed to work to regulate that
emotion in order to engage inaddressing the stressful
situation that they're in.
Right, so it's what's the range?
Can they accurately andcorrectly identify the emotion?
(39:21):
Do they have the ability toexpress that emotion right?
If I'm angry, there's a healthyway to express anger and
there's an unhealthy way toexpress anger right, so I'm
angry, there's a healthy way toexpress anger and there's an
unhealthy way to express anger,right.
So you want them to be able toexpress it correctly in order
for them to have multipleexperiences and practices or
practice, I'm sorry of beingable to regulate that emotion
(39:42):
right.
The more evidence they see ofthemselves identifying and
regulating emotions, the betterthey can get at that.
So emotional regulation very,very important.
And because they come from anattachment perspective again,
most people, most counselors,understand you know attachment
styles and attachment theory andso on.
So when you talk about traumas,you look at, okay, who were the
(40:05):
key attachment figures or theprimary caregivers for them in
their lives?
And then you try to see, okay,was it an abuse, was something
that was done to them orsomething that was withheld from
them?
Right, that way you canidentify you as the counselor,
or us as counselors, or you as afriend or parent or sibling
(40:27):
right, the way that you can lookat that is okay.
Whatever they lacked in theirchildhood, am I able to provide
that, or can I provide them withthe resource that is able to
provide that for them?
Right, it could be physicalneeds, it could be that it could
be emotional, just havingemotional language, a space
where they can share how they'refeeling about something,
because maybe when they weregrowing up, anytime they
(40:49):
expressed an emotion, it wasshut down.
It was, you know, responded towith shaming, like no, you
shouldn't feel that way.
You shouldn't feel that way.
You shouldn't feel that way.
So that's the message that theyget.
So they just keep everything tothemselves.
But if that's what they needand you identify that, then give
them space to share emotionsand your response is going to
dictate how willing they'regoing to be to share next time.
(41:12):
Okay, so we've got to addressthose past traumas and
attachment ruptures.
Where was the ruptures?
Who did they have ruptures with?
Because, speaking to aChristian audience, sometimes
it's people within the church,right?
So Christians have started toleave the church because they
say, well, you know Iexperienced church hurt and you
(41:34):
know the church is supposed torepresent Christ and you know,
every time I've gone to churchI've been hurt.
Yeah, you know, there's onepart of it where, yeah, I mean,
there's still people that go tochurch who are also hurt, and
they carry that hurt towardsother people too.
So it's kind of understandingis when you were growing up, did
you have some attachmentruptures with people from the
(41:54):
church?
Maybe it was a leader, maybe itwas a friend.
You know a parent that startedgossiping about your parents or
about you, right?
So you start to have all thesebeliefs about the church and
those are ruptures that need tobe addressed.
So those are some things to bemindful of there.
And then, lastly here,attachment repair work, where we
(42:16):
build secure internal workingmodels through therapy, how they
feel and what they're thinkingand identifying where in their
body it is that they'reexperiencing pain or discomfort
or anything like that.
So they have to identify wheretheir body, what their body is
(42:36):
feeling, what emotion they'reexperiencing and then what
thoughts they're having.
And you try to do that throughthe relationship that they have
with their counselor, right?
So the counselor would start.
For me, as a counselor, what Iwould start to do is okay, what
do they think?
How do you feel?
You know, in this, in thisinteraction that we've been
having, you know I try toaddress something that may cause
(42:59):
some stress for them.
Maybe I have to confront themabout something, right, how are
you feeling right now?
Does it feel like safe for usto address that?
And they may say yes, they maysay no, but I'm trying to bring
that up to see how they'reresponding and knowing that that
person and I, that we canco-regulate right, that's such
(43:20):
an important piece to attachmenttherapy work is that we
co-regulate, that I help themunderstand that, hey, I'm not
going to go anywhere.
If you share some strongemotion, I'm here with you.
We're doing the work together.
Right, let's do this.
And again, that gives them asense of security and if they
have multiple examples of thathappening to them, then they can
(43:40):
start to believe that otherpeople also care about them.
Okay, again, we want them todevelop a secure attachment
style, and the way that thathappens is through consistent,
multiple positive behaviorstowards them that meet their
needs and it's for an extendedperiod of time.
Right, that's what we'relooking for for.
(44:14):
And, yeah, so that is thefearful, avoidant attachment
style and a lot of, I see.
For those of you who arelistening, if you have
experienced trauma in your past,hopefully this episode was
helpful for you, but I know thatthis work.
You know you can try to do someof these things on your own,
but I would recommend that ifyou do have some significant
trauma and have experiencedthese things that I've been
talking about, that you do tryto find a counselor and see them
(44:36):
and see if you can do some ornot.
You've experienced trauma.
See how your currentrelationships are going the
close ones right, not thedistant ones, like people who
you're close with what.
What are the patterns thatyou're seeing there?
Okay, and if those kind ofdemonstrate or illustrate the
(45:00):
characteristics and examplesthat I mentioned on today's
episode, then go and seek acounselor.
You know, take that step.
It's going to be a lot of work,it's going to be hard work, but
it is possible.
And remember, at the end of this, all I know we talk about the
work that Christ does in ourlives and that he changes us
(45:23):
from the inside out.
Actually, there's a really goodbook that I would encourage you
to read.
It's by Larry Crabb.
Dr Larry Crabb passed away acouple years ago, but he was
someone that really took on.
I mean, I read most of hisbooks and kind of really
appreciated his approach totherapy and his commitment to
the gospel.
And at the end of this, aswe're talking about this, is
(45:43):
that oftentimes people who haveexperienced trauma have these
powerful testimonies and it'sbecause of the work that the
Lord does through the church,through his word, through prayer
, right.
So these are kind of the three,the big three that I call when
it comes to correcting.
An attachment is seeking God outin prayer, seeking him through
(46:07):
community.
An attachment is seeking Godout in prayer, seeking him
through community, right andalso continuing to do the work
that, um, that is, uh, laidbefore you.
Right, we still have theeffects of sin, right, we
experienced the effects of sin,and sometimes that's because
we've been hurt by others.
Sometimes it was we've hurtother people, and in that we can
(46:30):
still find healing through thecommunity, through our churches,
through reading scripture,through prayer.
We can find healing there.
I'm not going to oversimplify itand say if you do these three
things, you will get better,right, because we don't know, I
don't know, I don't know ifyou're going to get better,
right, because we don't know, Idon't know, I don't know if
you're going to get better,right, but I do know that you
(46:51):
can establish a sense of hopethat you will get better, and
it's a lot different.
Right, it's a perspective thing.
But if we look at scripture, Imean there were many, many
people in the Bible who eitherdidn't find healing or weren't
able to see the ultimate promiseof God.
Right, they just believed that.
They had faith so much thatthey knew that God was going to
(47:13):
deliver on his promise, right.
So God Jesus is going to return, right, that's one of the
promises.
He is going to return and he isgoing to take us home and there
will be no more pain, no moretears, no more suffering, and I
look forward to that day.
I hope you guys do too, andhopefully, as we talk about
these attachment styles, youknow, yeah, as difficult, as
(47:37):
tough as they may be toexperience what you're
experiencing, know that therewill be one day where we will
not be experiencing any of thiswith each other, and
specifically with Christ.
So I hope this was encouragingfor you.
Take what you can and applywhat you can and, yeah, guys,
hope you're blessed by it.
(47:57):
Have a good one and I'll seeyou next time.
All right, everyone, welcome back to the God
Attachment Healing Podcast.
I'm excited that you're here,as we've been going through this
series of learning about thedifferent attachment styles
We've done the anxiousattachment style, we've done the
avoidant attachment style andtoday I'm going to be talking
about the disorganizedattachment style, or also known
as the fearful, avoidanceattachment style.
(00:27):
So we'll go through somecharacteristics, some examples,
some common issues that come upfor them in relationships, and
then we'll look at some ways toresolve some of those issues.
And, yeah, so this has beenreally really great series
because, again, a lot of thework that I do is
attachment-based,attachment-related, and it's
(00:49):
some of the most insightfulinformation that you can have
and research on how you interactin relationships.
Actually, I had one of mysupervisors.
She called it the not just anattachment style, she called it
an adaptation style, because weadapt to the people that we
encounter and that can beadapting in a secure way, in an
(01:11):
anxious way, in an avoidant wayand, in today's case, in a
fearful, avoidant way, which isreally not attaching to another
person, and we'll discuss someof that.
But, again, if you're here,again, thank you for tuning in.
I appreciate your support andfeel free to share this episode
with other people who arewanting to understand their
(01:31):
attachment styles.
I'll continue to discussspecific issues that each
attachment style encounters.
So I'm going to talk about someof those today, but I think I'm
going to start doing some otherseries on attachment and, for
those of you who are listening,I'm going to make a slight shift
in the content of this podcast.
(01:53):
So I am in the last year of mycoursework for my doctoral
degree and so I'm trying tonarrow down a specific topic,
and it's going to have to dowith attachment.
I've been studying this foryears now, but I've been trying
to get an angle here as to whatwould be best to research, and
(02:18):
I'm looking at another professorshared with me about that.
There's new research being doneon divine forgiveness, which is
accepting the forgiveness ofGod when we are broken in our
relationship with him, whenthere's a rupture in the
attachment.
So I'm trying to see if any ofthe attachment styles are more
prone to receive thatforgiveness and are they also
better at doing self-forgivenessand other forgiveness.
(02:39):
So I'm really excited aboutwhat I'm going to find and I
think that's going to be a gooddirection to take this research,
this dissertation topic.
So that's what I'm thinking ofright now.
So, as you see, in the nextcoming weeks I'll be probably
doing some videos on that andsharing some research articles
with you and hopefully it's nottoo nerdy for you.
(03:02):
Hopefully that you're able toenjoy the information that I'm
reading and, yeah, I'm lookingforward to that.
So, again, leave a review, sendme comments, send me questions,
send me topics.
I'm always open to touching ontopics that you guys are
interested in listening to.
So, yeah, let's get intotoday's topic, on the.
(03:22):
I'm going to call it thefearful, avoidant attachment
style, because that's prettymuch more accurate than
disorganized.
Disorganized also just kind ofseems that well, I mean, it
would fall into place, becauseit's the idea of not knowing
really what to feel, what tothink, how to relate to people
who start to get close to you.
Okay, so let's discuss some ofthe characteristics of a
(03:47):
disorganized attachment style.
And, as I was thinking aboutthis topic with those who have a
fearful, avoidant attachmentstyle, there's usually a trauma
in their life, a significantlevel of trauma in their
childhood.
Sometimes it can be very recent, but typically it's childhood
(04:10):
wounds and traumas that havemultiplied over the years.
Right that they've hadconsistent interactions and
relationships where they willalways hurt in some way, shape
or form, where they will alwayshurt in some way, shape or form.
And again, abuse.
Specifically, whether it bephysical, emotional, verbal,
spiritual.
The repetitiveness ofexperiencing abuse is going to
(04:34):
be similar to repetitiveness ofwithholding needs that you have.
So in childhood.
For those who have experiencedchildhood trauma, it can be one
of those two things Either youwere physically, sexually,
emotionally, verbally abusedright on a consistent basis for
(04:56):
a long period of time, and it'saffected the way that you view
yourself and the way that youview others.
The other part of it is needsthat you had were withheld, so
maybe you didn't experience anyof the other types of abuse, but
there was neglect andwithholding or the inability to
provide for certain needs thatyou had growing up right.
(05:18):
So emotional needs, physicalneeds, spiritual needs, any of
those types of things.
If you didn't get that as achild, that also has similar
effects in regarding regardingtrauma right, whether it be
through abuse or through neglectand withdrawing of needs.
It's going to have very similarimpact on how the person
relates or how they viewthemselves and how they view
(05:40):
other people.
As a quick recap, you know whenyou have these different
attachment styles.
You have kind of the views thatthey have of themselves and the
views that they have of others.
So a secure attachment becausetheir needs have been met by
their primary caregivers andthat has been consistent and
they've experienced that in mostof their relationships.
Right, they're going to have apositive view of self.
(06:02):
I have needs and my needs areworthy of being met and I have
people in my life who have beenable to meet those needs and
I've seen this on a consistentbasis.
Maybe it was one person or twoperson who weren't able to do
that, but in general my needswere being met and in general I
feel good about myself.
They have a good self-esteem asa Christian.
(06:24):
They're able to see that Goddoes love them.
They don't question it, theyunderstand it, they receive it
and even more so because Goduses people in their lives, or
has used people in their lives,to confirm that view that they
are important and they arevaluable in God's eyes.
So it's a secure attachment.
The anxious person has a lowview of self or negative view of
(06:47):
self and a positive view ofothers, right, so in
relationships they question alot as to maybe I did something
wrong and that's why my needsare not being met.
That's why they're not able tomeet my needs.
There's something wrong with me, but they're good.
You know, I really love them, Iappreciate them.
Look how great they are, youknow, they're just such a great
(07:08):
person.
So they they kind of put otherpeople on a pedestal and have
people pleasing tendencies, butas they're doing that, they're
doing it to gain favor in theeyes of the person that they're,
that they're with, beromantically or friendship, and
with God it's kind of the samething the more I do, the more
accepted I'm going to be by God,right?
(07:29):
So they become very religiousand sometimes legalistic in
their behaviors to obtain favorfrom the Lord.
Those who are avoidant they havea low view or a negative view
of others and a high or positiveview of themselves.
So these are the highlyindependent, successful people
who would pull themselves up bythe bootstraps and they're able
(07:52):
to conquer anything that you putin front of them, because
that's what they've had to do,whether it's because their needs
weren't being met as childrenor that they were abused.
They didn't have anyone toreally depend on, so they had to
depend on themselves.
They had to find ways for themto create space and room to grow
.
So they just learned not todepend on anyone else.
(08:13):
No one else is trustworthy, noone's able to meet my needs, so
I have to find ways to be ableto meet my own needs.
So they become very driven,very successful, very type A and
, yeah, they take care ofbusiness, right.
But on the flip side to that,they don't have any deep,
intimate emotional relationshipswith people, nor with God.
Right, they respect God, theyunderstand who God is, they kind
(08:36):
of see themselves as goodpeople.
You know that they don't reallyneed God's forgiveness, but you
know they understand that it'ssomething that the Bible teaches
and they can accept that truth.
Right, but they don't reallyneed God's forgiveness, but you
know they understand that it'ssomething that the Bible teaches
and they can accept that truth.
Right, but they don't have anintimate emotional relationship
with the Lord like feeling closeto Jesus.
Right, they don't have that.
But, as we'll discuss today, nowwe have the fearful avoidant,
(08:57):
which is a combination of theanxious and the avoidant
attachment styles they strugglewith trying to figure out how do
I actually feel?
What is my body feeling?
What is my mind thinking?
How am I relating to people.
Why do I feel so triggered allthe time?
I want closeness, but I don'tknow what to do with it.
When it arrives, they have allthese mixed emotions and
(09:20):
contradictory feelings andthoughts that it confuses them
and it places a lot of stress onthem.
I mean, that's what trauma does.
Trauma places your body in astate of confusion, right, your
body is saying one thing andyour mind is trying to
communicate something else.
Your body is feeling a certainway and your mind is trying to
(09:40):
make sense of why you're feelingthat way, and there may not be
any logical reason in thatmoment for why your body is
experiencing that or why you'refeeling that way.
Right, but again, if you thinkabout childhood and needs that
weren't being met, you might bein survival mode, and that is
typically what happens forpeople who have experienced
(10:02):
trauma.
So what are some of thecharacteristics of the fearful,
avoidant attachment style?
Well, something that I justalluded to right now
contradictory or erraticbehavior in relationships, right
?
So a common example of thiscould be the person who wants to
be close.
(10:22):
Right, they want you to be withthem, but every time that
you're with them, they also geteasily triggered or easily upset
with you.
Everything bothers them.
They become anxious.
When you're close to them, theystart to question.
They kind of ask thesequestions of do you really love
me?
And you could say yes and youcould show them multiple
examples of you loving them, butthey don't believe it right, so
(10:43):
they say no.
But they don't believe it right, so they say no, you really
don't.
They kind of self-sabotage therelationship and then, when they
do that, they push you away andthen they want you back.
So there's this back and forthof wanting closeness, wanting
intimacy, but at the same timenot knowing what to do with it
when they have it.
And gosh, I mean, if you canimagine.
(11:06):
You know I do a lot of work withtrauma with our students and
it's such a hard place to be inbecause your body and your mind
are trying to make sense of eachother.
Right, you know, trauma is verymuch body oriented, like your
body is experiencing things thatyou don't fully understand
because it doesn't make sensewithin the context that you're
(11:26):
in.
Right, you could be dating orseeing or being in a friendship
with someone who is a secureperson, but you don't understand
that because the thinking isgoing to be why is this person
with me.
Why do they even like me?
Like I have all these flaws andall these things, but you know,
I really love them, I reallycare about them.
But why do they even like me?
Like I have all these flaws andall these things, but you know,
(11:47):
I really love them, I reallycare about them, but why do I
also keep pushing them away?
Right?
So there's these contradictoryfeelings and behaviors where, um
, they don't know what to do.
When someone is able to connectwith them and be close to them
and ask them questions, right,sometimes they'll be very open
and vulnerable and then they'llpull back and feel like they
share too much and they'll startto question like, should I have
(12:08):
shared that much?
And they completely close off.
So it's a very confusingsituation for them to try to
make sense of all of that.
They don't deem themselvesworthy.
Again, classic characteristic ofa fearful avoidant is going to
be a negative view of self I'mnot worthy, I don't deserve this
, all of these different typesof messages and at the same time
(12:29):
, have a negative view of otherpeople where no one's able to
meet my needs, no one caresabout me, even though they may
have a lot of evidence thatpeople do love them.
Right, and usually because thefearful avoidant is kind of
rough around the edges or iskind of distant but then seeks
and desires closeness, almost toa point of, you know, kind of
(12:50):
suffocating the relationship ina sense, and it goes back and
forth.
People tend to move away fromthat because they don't know
what to expect with this person.
Right, and it can be verydifficult and very straining to
experience that in a in arelationship.
Right, they're very.
The fearful avoidant is fearfulof both seeking closeness and
(13:13):
maintaining distance.
Right, it's this idea of I wantto be close but I also don't
want you too close.
Where you know me too much,right, I want you to know me but
also not know me fully.
Just maybe like 30%, and thenmaybe, if you pass that next
test, maybe we'll go up to 40%,then 50, then 60.
Oh wait, 60%, that's too muchright.
(13:35):
Actually, I'm going to close upnow and I'll get you back down
to 40, 30%, right?
So that's kind of the thinkingbehind it is that they don't
really know what they want.
So that's kind of the thinkingbehind it is that they don't
really know what they wantbecause it's all new to them
Safety, security, being able tomeet their needs like it's new
to them.
You know, sometimes they've hadto fend for themselves and
provide for themselves and theycan, you know, really appreciate
(13:57):
the fact that they were able todo that.
And then other times someonehas been able to meet their
needs and they appreciate that,but it hasn't been consistent
enough for them to really reallybelieve it.
They have a lot of difficulty inregulating their emotions and
responses, so they're veryreactive to difficult situations
, right?
One thing that I've said quiteoften on the podcast is that you
(14:22):
don't get to learn about aperson's attachment style by
seeing how they interact witheveryone around them, especially
in public.
Right, you know more aboutsomeone's attachment style as
you get closer and closer tothem.
And, specifically, when thereis a stressful situation that
arises within the relationshipright, conflict, anything like
that that's where you start tosee how does the person respond
(14:45):
when they are under stress orare needing to encounter
conflict, needing to addresssomething.
Right, that's when you reallyget to see what the attachment
style is.
Right, the anxious person isgonna want to address issues
right away.
They feel like it's all theirfault and they wanna figure it
out.
They wanna problem solve.
They want to resolve it.
(15:06):
At that moment the avoidant isgoing to say, no, I need some
time to think about it.
But really they just don't wantto engage their emotions.
So they pull away, they closeoff.
The fearful avoidant experiencesall of that and they don't know
where they land.
So they're not one or the other, they're both.
And the thing is that it'srandom.
You don't know when they'regoing to respond which way.
(15:26):
So that makes it difficult forthem to not just understand and
identify their emotions but thento regulate their emotions
right.
And a common problem or issuewith fearful avoidance is that
they don't.
They have a hard timeunderstanding how they actually
feel right, because their bodyfeels a certain way and their
(15:49):
mind is thinking that they feela certain way.
And again, with all thatbackground, with trauma and
consecutive painfulrelationships, you can't.
It's hard for them to makesense of all of that right.
So that's why consistency ofgood behaviors towards them
loving, security, meeting needslike that needs to be so
(16:12):
consistent for a long period oftime so that they can start to
see that people actually do careabout them.
I always say that the antidoteto helping someone move from
anxious avoidance, fearfulavoidance.
To secure is to spend timearound secure people, to spend
time with the Lord, to spendtime in Christian community.
(16:34):
All of these things canreinforce this idea of obtaining
a secure attachment style.
But the difficulty with fearfulavoidance is that they need
long periods of time ofconsistent good behavior that is
oriented towards meeting theirneeds.
(16:55):
And so it takes time andusually people don't stick
around that long.
So after a short while could bea month, could be two months,
could be three months peoplestart to pull away because they
can't deal with the reactiveresponses that the fearful
avoidant has.
They tend to vacillate and Ikind of alluded to this earlier
(17:16):
between approach and avoidance.
There's a history of unresolvedtrauma or inconsistent
caregiving experiences, whichI've been talking about.
There's a lack of unresolvedtrauma or inconsistent
caregiving experiences, whichI've been talking about, and
there's a lack of coherentattachment strategies.
They don't know how to relateto people, right, because
they're always questioning isthis person going to love me,
(17:37):
right?
Is this person is it worth it?
Is it worth it for me to startinvesting in this relationship,
knowing that it's not going togo anywhere, knowing that it's
going to end, knowing thateventually they're not going to
like me anymore, knowing thatthey're going to think I'm too
much right.
So they have all of thesethoughts going on in their heads
that it freezes them.
(17:59):
Sometimes they don't know whatto do and the times that they do
act it always kind of blowsthings up.
Know what to do and the timesthat they do act it always kind
of blows things up.
Everything always gets heatedand it turns really bad and
creates a lot of chaos for them,for the other person.
So they don't have any coherentattachment strategy, they don't
know how to actually relate toother people.
(18:21):
And it makes sense.
I mean, could you imagine I'mtrying to think of a good
example of this of somethingthat a person needs and they
know that they need it and theywant it, but when they have it
they don't know exactly what todo with it.
I mean that can be sofrustrating.
Here's a good example.
Maybe it's a mild example, butit's a good example.
(18:44):
You know I like playing sports.
So there's three sports thatI'll play any time of the day
that I enjoy.
So I enjoy football, I enjoybasketball, I enjoy MMA.
So if I'll play any time of theday that I enjoy, so I enjoy
football, I enjoy basketball, Ienjoy MMA.
So if I'm doing any of thosethree things, I feel confident
and competent enough to do thosethings and to do them well.
Right.
But if I need to learn how toplay golf, I'll try to learn,
(19:10):
but I'm not going to be good atit and I'm going to be very
easily frustrated with not beingable to do it.
Actually, my brother, heactually golfs and he's gotten
pretty good at it, and the timesthat he's asked me to go play,
or the times that I played withhim, it's so interesting to me
how frustrated I get because Ican't get it, because in my mind
, I'm thinking to myself Ishould be able to get this, I
(19:36):
should be able to know how toswing, I should be able to point
the ball in that direction andmake it in the hole, right, I
should be able to do that, but Ican't and it frustrates me.
So it's something that I feelthat I should be able to do and
it's something that, if I wantto spend time with my brother,
with people that I care about,that I want to enjoy doing and
that I want to learn how to do,but I can't, I feel like I can't
(19:59):
, right.
So I just don't try it anymore.
So that's a very basic or smallexample related to sports, but
in relationships it's kind ofthe same thing.
I know that I need to relate topeople.
I know that I need to surroundmyself with people who are
secure in their attachment, whoare respectful and who are kind
and who are able to regulatetheir emotions Like.
(20:22):
I know that.
But when I try to do thosethings, it doesn't come as
easily for me as it does forthem.
So it's better for me not totry.
Right?
This is the fearful, avoidanttalking that they know that they
want and that they need to bewith good people, with people
with Christian community.
(20:42):
They need to be closer to theLord.
They know that they need thesethings, but they don't know or
feel competent enough to do itright.
They don't feel like I'mactually drawing close, like
they're actually drawing closerto the Lord.
They don't feel like they'redoing things right.
They don't feel like theyreally understand people in
their community, their Christiancommunity and their churches
(21:05):
right.
They don't feel like theyunderstand their families.
So they constantly are in thisstate of back and forth of
either.
I'm going to avoid the thingthat makes me uncomfortable, the
thing that I need as much as Iwant it.
I'm either going to avoid it or, if I try it, I'm going to be
frustrated when I try it Again,even as I'm talking about it.
You know, I can just imaginehow frustrating it must be for
(21:28):
someone to feel like they don'tknow what they're doing or feel
like, every time they do try todo it, that they're doing
everything wrong.
So yeah, so that kind ofcaptures the idea for what a
fearful avoidant may experienceand some characteristics of that
.
Now, some examples of this canbe displaying intense and
(21:49):
unpredictable emotionalresponses.
So I kind of mentioned thatearlier.
Engaging in self-sabotagingbehaviors in relationships right
, you'll often see a lot ofself-fulfilling prophecies with
the fearful avoidant right Intheir minds.
They already have the beliefthat things are not going to
(22:09):
work out, that eventually thisfriend is going to work out,
that eventually this friend isgoing to leave them, that
eventually they're going to findsomeone better than them,
someone who is more accomplishedor who's more competent, who's
better at socializing with otherpeople, right, and so that's
what they believe.
They just believe that at somepoint people are just going to
(22:30):
leave.
You know, they don't believethat anyone's going to stay with
them for the long haul, and whywould they believe that someone
would when they haven'texperienced that right?
(22:52):
So, again, when it comes totherapy work with people who
have experienced trauma, like,they need such a consistency of
positive behaviors andengagement, and relating to and
for a long period of time, rightAgain, depending on the work
that's being done, both insideand outside of session.
They can, you know, shortenmaybe that time, that time gap,
but for the most part they needit to be long-term, right.
(23:13):
That's why you try to connectthem with people like who's
who's the most secure person orthe most, the person that you
enjoy being around the most orthat you would like to be around
the most.
Get close to that person, justspend time around them, right,
talk to them and just see how doyou feel, how does your body
feel when you're around thisperson, right?
(23:33):
So you try to find a safe, acorrective attachment figure in
their daily life so that you canencourage them to engage that
relationship a little bit more,because what happens sometimes
is that they'll try to do thatwith everyone, and so in one day
they could interact with fivepeople and all five of those
people, reject them or treatthem horribly or just don't
(23:54):
acknowledge them, and itreinforces the belief that, see,
I'm not important.
You know all these five people,they, they didn't have time for
me, they didn't do this or youknow it didn't work out right.
But if you encourage them to goto one person on multiple
occasions throughout a certainperiod of time, at some point
that healthy person is going torub off on them, right, they're
(24:15):
going to start to see hey tothis person.
It was a little bit hardinitially, but now they've kind
of stuck around with me, rightthat they're kind of here and
they're present and they're well, it's cool to see how they're
relating to me.
They're just treating me like anormal person.
You know, I've neverexperienced this before, right,
so I would encourage that.
Right, having a small group,maybe two, maybe three people
(24:36):
that you can focus on.
That are healthy, correctiveattachment figures in their life
.
It doesn't have to be a parent,it could be a friend, it can be
a pastor, a leader, a sibling,right, just whoever they find
that they feel safe around, thattheir body feels calm and
relaxed and, just, you know,safe with.
So that's what I wouldencourage.
(24:59):
They feel confused or conflictedabout intimacy and autonomy,
like they know that they need tobe independent but at the same
time, they want to be close toother people.
So they can be very driven atone point and then just very
dependent on others at othertimes, right, they struggle with
(25:20):
identity and self-concept dueto past trauma.
So this is where shame comesinto play, right?
Shame is the identity piecethat almost everyone who
experiences trauma has, right,that they believe something
about themselves due to theirpast trauma.
So when your needs aren't metas a young child, you know, even
(25:43):
going into teenagers, if yourneeds have not been met, you
feel that you're not importantenough, that you're not worthy
enough, because if you were,then people would want to meet
your needs, right?
So what that does is thatcreates this belief system of
you.
Know, people are just notdependable, right?
And maybe there's somethingwrong with me too.
What is it about me that peopledon't want to meet my needs,
right?
So, again, going back to thataspect of negative view of self
(26:07):
and negative view of others,right, others are not capable of
loving me.
Well, others don't have theresources or don't have the
ability to love me.
Well, they don't want to loveme, so there's something wrong
with them.
But also, I wonder, if there'ssomething wrong with me, what do
(26:28):
I say?
What do I do?
What am I doing right nowthat's pushing people away?
What's wrong with me, right?
So, again, those conversationsare constantly in their mind.
So they take on the identity ofI'm not worthy, I'm not good
enough for other people, right,so that's a very common shame
belief that happens for peoplewho have experienced trauma,
(26:54):
belief that happens for peoplewho have experienced trauma,
right.
So now, how does this show up,then, in their relationships?
Right, what are some commonissues that they encounter in
their relationships?
Again, this could be romanticand it can be in friendships,
but one of the big ones ischallenges in establishing
boundaries and expectationsright.
And this makes sense, right, asyou think about it.
Why would someone who isfearful avoid and experience
(27:17):
difficulties setting boundariesand expectations right?
So they know, in order to berespected, in order to be loved,
like I have to set some levelof boundaries, like I can't just
let people walk over me.
But then, if I set thoseboundaries, what if that pushes
them away?
Right?
So they have that struggle of,hey, I don't like how this
person treated me, and they'vedone that multiple times.
(27:39):
I need to tell them that theycan't do that anymore.
Or I just need to spend lesstime away from them, because I
really don't like how I feelwhen they do that to me, right?
When they don't return my texts, or they don't return my calls,
or they cancel my art plans.
You know all of these differentthings.
So with that, it's okay.
(27:59):
So I need to establish thatboundary for myself, but at the
same time, I really want to bewith them.
I want to be around them.
So if I set this boundary,ain't that going to push them
away?
Like, won't that make them hateme and think that I'm just
being too petty about thesethings?
Right?
So they're going back and forth.
They can't establish boundariesbecause they're afraid that if
(28:22):
they do, people are going topull away.
Right?
And again remember that's therecurring theme is that people
have not stayed long enough.
So if they're already notstaying long enough and I
haven't set any boundaries, nowI'm going to set boundaries and
push more people away.
Right?
This is what they believe thatif I set boundaries now, no
one's going to want to be withme for sure.
Right?
(28:43):
So not realizing that, settingboundaries and doing that for a
consistent amount of time isgoing to draw in the people that
are able to respect thoseboundaries right.
Again, this can only be done inthe context of a healthy, secure
attachment.
Like, they need to have someonein their life who can
demonstrate to them that theyare going to be able to respect
(29:04):
those boundaries and, even asthey set those boundaries, that
the other person is still goingto continue to want to meet up
with them and want to spend timewith them.
Right?
That is going to change the waythat they perceive themselves
and the way that they perceiveother people, right?
So, hopefully, start movinginto more.
They start moving into morepositive direction positive
(29:25):
expectation of themselves and ofothers, of themselves and of
others.
This is a big one here the ideaof trusting other people, right.
Difficulty trusting others andthemselves, and that's important
, right.
Someone who has a fearful,avoidant attachment style will
look back at their relationshipsand they are going to say two
(29:47):
things One man, everyone thatI've ever encountered and I've
been in a relationship or that Ihad a friend for this amount of
time, like they all left me.
They're all jerks, right.
They're all horrible people.
Why would they do that to me.
What's wrong with them?
(30:09):
Right, and then, right afterthat, follow that with what's
wrong with me.
What is it with them?
And then, right after that,follow that with what's wrong
with me.
What is it about me that's notkeeping them around?
So is it me?
Do I not have the ability tochoose good people, to choose
the right people, safe people inmy life?
And here my counselor is askingme to find someone who's safe.
(30:32):
I don't even know what thatlooks like, right, and that's
where the counselor can helpthem.
Okay, well, let's look at somebehaviors.
You know who in your life doesA, b and C and you could talk
about those things right.
Who serves other people and whodoes it consistently?
Who do you want to be like?
Right?
Is there someone in your churchthat you admire, that you look
up to?
Right, so you help them exploresome safe, secure people in
(30:55):
their lives.
But they don't trust themselvesto make that decision right, so
they will need some help earlyon to be able to identify that.
But then also the other peoplethat they select.
What we're hoping for is thatthey're able to establish that
expectation of your needs areimportant to me and I do want to
meet them, and here's how I canmeet them right, so that they
(31:16):
can start to establish a levelof trust in other people.
Right, we don't want them totrust everyone.
It's not blind trust to otherpeople.
We want them to trust safepeople.
Okay, but they have difficultywith that since they don't trust
themselves in being able toidentify those people.
We talked about emotionalregulation, but an important
part of that is how do theyhandle conflict, right?
(31:38):
So the reason why you want tobe good at regulating your
emotions is so that when stressor conflict arises, you're able
to manage your own emotions andengage in that situation in a
more productive manner.
Okay, these people who havefearful, avoidant attachment
style, they don't know how toregulate their emotions, so they
(32:01):
kind of explode or they're veryreactive or they completely
shut down from tense situations,right?
So if there's high stress, ifthere's conflict arising, even
the anticipation of it right,their bodies anticipate that
there's going to be conflict atsome point.
So they're always living inthis state of high alertness and
(32:21):
anxiety and stress and pain andeverything that you can think
of, because they're anticipatingthat something is going to go
wrong.
They're expecting it, right,and again, based on their
history, it would make sense.
They fear intimacy andvulnerability, right?
So when you talk about, well,you need to be more vulnerable
(32:43):
and you need, you know that'sthe only way to develop
closeness.
They don't understand thatbecause the times that they have
been vulnerable if they have inthe past, it's either been used
against them or when they werein their most vulnerable state,
they were left to meet their ownneeds and no one came to attend
them.
Right Again, go back to theirchildhood and they see this
repeated as they get older.
So for them, vulnerability isnot worth it to gain intimacy,
(33:12):
because it's a high risk forthem.
I want intimacy, like they wantintimacy, but when you say
vulnerability and share how youfeel and do all of these things,
for them it's like no, I can't.
If I do that, it's just goingto lead me to more hurt.
So why do that?
Maybe I'd just pull back.
So they avoid intimacy as muchas they want it.
(33:33):
Right, they want intimacy, butthey have not seen vulnerability
help them in obtaining that.
And, lastly, patterns ofengaging in harmful or abusive
relationships.
So, unfortunately, you know oneof the sad things about this
because they can't identify whathealthy looks like, they're
(33:55):
always in unhealthyrelationships, right, which are
harmful or abusive, whether itbe them towards other people or
others towards them.
It's just a relationship ofchaos, right?
Everyone's hurting everyone,you know.
This is why high conflictcouples typically have those
this kind of fearful, avoidantattachment style.
(34:18):
They're both traumatizedindividuals and they are with
each other because it makessense how they're each
experiencing their world andthey both have the same
expectations for themselves.
So conflict, high conflict,strong emotions, all of these
(34:38):
things that is just what seemsnormal to them, right?
Maybe they grew up in a chaotichousehold where that was the
norm Yelling, screaming, namecalling, hitting, all these
different things If that wastheir norm.
Even if they experienced thatin their relationship at a
lesser degree, it still feelsnormal for them and in their
(34:59):
mind they rationalize and theythink well, it's better than
what my parents used to do orwhat I saw when I was growing up
, so it must be good, right?
So just because it was slightlybetter, or better than the most
horrible situation that you canthink of, they see that as an
improvement and they stay in therelationship because it's not
as bad as what they saw growingup or it's not as bad as their
(35:23):
previous relationship.
So they'll remain in thoseharmful, abusive relationships.
And it's really sad againbecause you want people to heal.
I heard I mean, I just finishedreading this and this is
something that I believe myself,but a licensed therapist was
talking about you don't have tobe fully healed to go into a
(35:45):
relationship.
You don't have to be perfect orhave everything down perfectly
to enter all the relationshipskills and conflict resolution.
You don't do that perfectly onyour own.
You have to be in arelationship right.
So there's a misconception inthe field where people say well,
(36:05):
first you got to heal byyourself before you enter into a
relationship.
You know it's partially true.
You need to be doing the work todevelop self-awareness and
understand what your triggersare, understand how you operate,
how you deal with conflict, howyou deal with stressors in your
life, right, you have tounderstand those things.
But the only way to actuallyknow if you are understanding
(36:27):
them is to be in relationshipright.
So there is a space where youhave to engage relationships or
be in a relationship Again.
It can be a friendship, it canbe with your sibling, with your
parents, in a romanticrelationship, but you need a
space to practice this newunderstanding that you have of
your triggers and of things,that of how stress affects you,
(36:50):
right?
What happens, are you able toread, are you able to identify
the emotions, are you able toregulate those emotions, and so
on, right, so you want to havebetter understanding, but you
can't practice that in isolation.
You have to do that inrelationship, okay?
So when it comes to therapy, andhow do you actually address
(37:10):
these things, you know, one ofthe biggest things that you want
to do is helping the personregulate their emotions right,
developing skills to managethose strong emotions when they
come.
So there's a couple of thingsthat go into that.
First, it's what's their rangeof emotion, okay, meaning, um.
First, it's what's their rangeof emotion, Okay, meaning their
emotional expressions.
(37:30):
Is it stunted, is it limited oris it expansive?
Like you're going to see peoplewho are either shut down
completely and they experiencedjust a small range of emotions
like sadness or anger, right,and that's it.
Um.
Then you have a larger range ofemotion where the person can go
from completely erupt in aviolent rage and then completely
(37:54):
shut down, but they alsoexperience everything in between
, where sometimes they're happy,sometimes they're sad, other
times they're moody and thenother times they're overly
excited and sometimes they'remanic.
So they have all this broadrange of emotions, overly
excited and sometimes they'remanic.
So they have all this broadrange of emotions and so you
(38:16):
want to kind of identify howmuch is their range?
Right, and then, once you seewhat their range is, then you
say, okay, can you identify whatyou're actually feeling?
Like?
Do you feel angry or are youafraid of something?
Right, that's a really cleardistinction.
And oftentimes anger is, orstems from fear of something
right, a fear of losing arelationship.
So the person becomes angry andtries to control the situation.
(38:38):
Right, so can the personidentify a difference between
anger and fear, or fear andanxiety?
So you start to help themidentify.
So what does that actually feellike?
Like, how would you describethe emotion that you're
experiencing right now?
What does your body feel likeat this moment?
Right, so they need to tie whattheir body's experiencing with
(38:59):
the emotion that they're tryingto describe.
Right, because that's gonna helpthem again identify their
emotion and then know what theyneed to work to regulate that
emotion in order to engage inaddressing the stressful
situation that they're in.
Right, so it's what's the range?
Can they accurately andcorrectly identify the emotion?
(39:21):
Do they have the ability toexpress that emotion right?
If I'm angry, there's a healthyway to express anger and
there's an unhealthy way toexpress anger right, so I'm
angry, there's a healthy way toexpress anger and there's an
unhealthy way to express anger,right.
So you want them to be able toexpress it correctly in order
for them to have multipleexperiences and practices or
practice, I'm sorry of beingable to regulate that emotion
(39:42):
right.
The more evidence they see ofthemselves identifying and
regulating emotions, the betterthey can get at that.
So emotional regulation very,very important.
And because they come from anattachment perspective again,
most people, most counselors,understand you know attachment
styles and attachment theory andso on.
So when you talk about traumas,you look at, okay, who were the
(40:05):
key attachment figures or theprimary caregivers for them in
their lives?
And then you try to see, okay,was it an abuse, was something
that was done to them orsomething that was withheld from
them?
Right, that way you canidentify you as the counselor,
or us as counselors, or you as afriend or parent or sibling
(40:27):
right, the way that you can lookat that is okay.
Whatever they lacked in theirchildhood, am I able to provide
that, or can I provide them withthe resource that is able to
provide that for them?
Right, it could be physicalneeds, it could be that it could
be emotional, just havingemotional language, a space
where they can share how they'refeeling about something,
because maybe when they weregrowing up, anytime they
(40:49):
expressed an emotion, it wasshut down.
It was, you know, responded towith shaming, like no, you
shouldn't feel that way.
You shouldn't feel that way.
You shouldn't feel that way.
So that's the message that theyget.
So they just keep everything tothemselves.
But if that's what they needand you identify that, then give
them space to share emotionsand your response is going to
dictate how willing they'regoing to be to share next time.
(41:12):
Okay, so we've got to addressthose past traumas and
attachment ruptures.
Where was the ruptures?
Who did they have ruptures with?
Because, speaking to aChristian audience, sometimes
it's people within the church,right?
So Christians have started toleave the church because they
say, well, you know Iexperienced church hurt and you
(41:34):
know the church is supposed torepresent Christ and you know,
every time I've gone to churchI've been hurt.
Yeah, you know, there's onepart of it where, yeah, I mean,
there's still people that go tochurch who are also hurt, and
they carry that hurt towardsother people too.
So it's kind of understandingis when you were growing up, did
you have some attachmentruptures with people from the
(41:54):
church?
Maybe it was a leader, maybe itwas a friend.
You know a parent that startedgossiping about your parents or
about you, right?
So you start to have all thesebeliefs about the church and
those are ruptures that need tobe addressed.
So those are some things to bemindful of there.
And then, lastly here,attachment repair work, where we
(42:16):
build secure internal workingmodels through therapy, how they
feel and what they're thinkingand identifying where in their
body it is that they'reexperiencing pain or discomfort
or anything like that.
So they have to identify wheretheir body, what their body is
(42:36):
feeling, what emotion they'reexperiencing and then what
thoughts they're having.
And you try to do that throughthe relationship that they have
with their counselor, right?
So the counselor would start.
For me, as a counselor, what Iwould start to do is okay, what
do they think?
How do you feel?
You know, in this, in thisinteraction that we've been
having, you know I try toaddress something that may cause
(42:59):
some stress for them.
Maybe I have to confront themabout something, right, how are
you feeling right now?
Does it feel like safe for usto address that?
And they may say yes, they maysay no, but I'm trying to bring
that up to see how they'reresponding and knowing that that
person and I, that we canco-regulate right, that's such
(43:20):
an important piece to attachmenttherapy work is that we
co-regulate, that I help themunderstand that, hey, I'm not
going to go anywhere.
If you share some strongemotion, I'm here with you.
We're doing the work together.
Right, let's do this.
And again, that gives them asense of security and if they
have multiple examples of thathappening to them, then they can
(43:40):
start to believe that otherpeople also care about them.
Okay, again, we want them todevelop a secure attachment
style, and the way that thathappens is through consistent,
multiple positive behaviorstowards them that meet their
needs and it's for an extendedperiod of time.
Right, that's what we'relooking for for.
(44:14):
And, yeah, so that is thefearful, avoidant attachment
style and a lot of, I see.
For those of you who arelistening, if you have
experienced trauma in your past,hopefully this episode was
helpful for you, but I know thatthis work.
You know you can try to do someof these things on your own,
but I would recommend that ifyou do have some significant
trauma and have experiencedthese things that I've been
talking about, that you do tryto find a counselor and see them
(44:36):
and see if you can do some ornot.
You've experienced trauma.
See how your currentrelationships are going the
close ones right, not thedistant ones, like people who
you're close with what.
What are the patterns thatyou're seeing there?
Okay, and if those kind ofdemonstrate or illustrate the
(45:00):
characteristics and examplesthat I mentioned on today's
episode, then go and seek acounselor.
You know, take that step.
It's going to be a lot of work,it's going to be hard work, but
it is possible.
And remember, at the end of this, all I know we talk about the
work that Christ does in ourlives and that he changes us
(45:23):
from the inside out.
Actually, there's a really goodbook that I would encourage you
to read.
It's by Larry Crabb.
Dr Larry Crabb passed away acouple years ago, but he was
someone that really took on.
I mean, I read most of hisbooks and kind of really
appreciated his approach totherapy and his commitment to
the gospel.
And at the end of this, aswe're talking about this, is
(45:43):
that oftentimes people who haveexperienced trauma have these
powerful testimonies and it'sbecause of the work that the
Lord does through the church,through his word, through prayer
, right.
So these are kind of the three,the big three that I call when
it comes to correcting.
An attachment is seeking God outin prayer, seeking him through
(46:07):
community.
An attachment is seeking Godout in prayer, seeking him
through community, right andalso continuing to do the work
that, um, that is, uh, laidbefore you.
Right, we still have theeffects of sin, right, we
experienced the effects of sin,and sometimes that's because
we've been hurt by others.
Sometimes it was we've hurtother people, and in that we can
(46:30):
still find healing through thecommunity, through our churches,
through reading scripture,through prayer.
We can find healing there.
I'm not going to oversimplify itand say if you do these three
things, you will get better,right, because we don't know, I
don't know, I don't know ifyou're going to get better,
right, because we don't know, Idon't know, I don't know if
you're going to get better,right, but I do know that you
(46:51):
can establish a sense of hopethat you will get better, and
it's a lot different.
Right, it's a perspective thing.
But if we look at scripture, Imean there were many, many
people in the Bible who eitherdidn't find healing or weren't
able to see the ultimate promiseof God.
Right, they just believed that.
They had faith so much thatthey knew that God was going to
(47:13):
deliver on his promise, right.
So God Jesus is going to return, right, that's one of the
promises.
He is going to return and he isgoing to take us home and there
will be no more pain, no moretears, no more suffering, and I
look forward to that day.
I hope you guys do too, andhopefully, as we talk about
these attachment styles, youknow, yeah, as difficult, as
(47:37):
tough as they may be toexperience what you're
experiencing, know that therewill be one day where we will
not be experiencing any of thiswith each other, and
specifically with Christ.
So I hope this was encouragingfor you.
Take what you can and applywhat you can and, yeah, guys,
hope you're blessed by it.
(47:57):
Have a good one and I'll seeyou next time.
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