February 19, 2025 • 40 mins
Send Me Questions on Attachment
How do you rebuild trust when the foundation of your relationship has been shattered by betrayal? Join us for a compelling conversation with my insightful guest, Kendra King, as we unravel the complexities of betrayal trauma in the context of sex addiction. We explore the unique challenges faced by Christian communities, where secrecy often overshadows vulnerability. Kendra and I discuss whether restoration in such relationships necessarily leads to reconciliation and the transformative role of forgiveness along this painful journey.
Unmet emotional needs can manifest in unexpected and destructive ways, often leading individuals towards infidelity and addiction. Our discussion sheds light on the distinct ways men and women experience and satisfy these needs, highlighting the powerful role of dopamine in addictive behaviors. Even within the framework of Christian beliefs about overcoming sinful desires, the biological drive for pleasure remains a significant force. This episode emphasizes mindfulness as a crucial tool in managing these behaviors, encouraging a balanced understanding of human nature and spirituality.
Betrayal within families and close-knit communities can be a harrowing experience. We tackle the emotional turmoil that arises when trusted individuals are accused of wrongdoing, especially within black and brown communities where these issues are compounded by cultural nuances. Kendra and I stress the importance of confronting these painful realities head-on, offering a path to healing through openness and compassion. By sharing these stories, we hope to foster a community of understanding and grace, paving the way for redemption and healing for all involved.
FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM:
@godattachmenthealing
FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK:
God Attachment Healing
ABOUT ME 👇
My mission is to help you understand your attachment style to learn how you can heal from the pain you’ve experienced in your relationship with God, the church and yourself.
I look forward to walking alongside you as you draw closer to Christ!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, all right, everyone, welcome back to the
God Attachment Healing Podcast.
I'm doing a series right now onbetrayal trauma with Ms Kendra
King and she was so great in ourfirst episode sharing about
what betrayal trauma is and whatthat healing process can look
like for people.
And today we're going to talk alittle bit deeper, a little bit
(00:27):
more about sex addicts and whatthat restoration process and
redemption process looks likeafterwards.
This is again a topic thathappens in Christian circles and
we don't talk about it openlyenough and, as we learned in our
last episode, one of thehealing components to dealing
with betrayal trauma is completevulnerability and openness and
(00:50):
putting everything on the table,which is painful, right, and
especially when it comes to thisidea of having a spouse or
partner that is a sex addict.
You know that creates thisongoing feelings of PTSD
symptoms, right of betrayal, andmaybe even make some question
their faith.
So we'll talk a little bitabout that what that process
(01:13):
looks like, what restoration canlook like.
Does it always meanreconciliation and even touch on
the aspect of forgiveness?
But, kendra, welcome back tothe show.
It's good having you.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thank you, it was so good to do the first episode and
I am so honored to be back tothe show.
It's good having you.
Thank you, it was so good to dothe first episode and I am so
honored to be back for thesecond one awesome, awesome, I
am as well.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
This is this is a great topic to discuss, not so
much because it's uh, obviouslyit's not a a fun topic, but it's
a necessary topic, right onethat needs to discussed, and
even you mentioned in the lastepisode about how the church
handles things and due to notbeing equipped to do so or only
(01:52):
to being taught.
One way which we discussed wassometimes we try to approach
emotional, mental, physicalaspects by only addressing the
spiritual, and that's just notthe way that God wired us right.
Right.
Right, right.
But today's topic is a littlebit more specific, and this is a
growing problem for both menand women.
Men have been more known to bethe sex addicts.
(02:14):
Right Right.
There's this growing literatureon women also participating in
this.
Yes, yes, can you share alittle bit about that, like what
you've seen, because this isnot something that this is
something that the culture hasshifted.
I think in men and women.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
But yeah what have you seen regarding that?
So I believe, in regards to themen being more prevalent in
this particular field, it's justbecause of how they get caught
right.
There's a sense of of womenbeing able to kind of manipulate
(02:56):
and kind of uh, communicate ina way, or or operate in a way
where it's kind of low-key.
It's not, it's more, you canexplain things away.
It's not as as just out there,as as men engage in it.
So it's it's more subtle.
(03:16):
Women are more subtle in theway they approach things.
However, it it still hurts thesame way, it still hurts the
same way.
It still hurts.
The same way and, from my levelof understanding, is that
there's some men that stay, somemen do not.
There's a nature.
(03:36):
I think it has a lot to do withhow the societal norms and
stereotypes of men and women andthe expectations of well, if a
man cheats on a woman, sheshould stay.
In comparison, if a womancheats on a man, you just leave
her.
Why?
Why?
(03:57):
I've always had that question.
It's like this hierarchy, justlike when they talk about
equality and work and pay andall.
It's the same setup inrelationships and it's
unfortunate because men andwomen, both are human beings.
There's still a level of hurt,there's still a level of
betrayal.
(04:17):
However, there's still a gracethat should be shown, especially
if she wants to do better, bebetter, show you something
different, work on herself.
I think she's owed the same,the same grace, as if the shoe
was on the other foot these arejust my thoughts.
(04:38):
It's just my thoughts, you know,but it's it's.
It's unfair at times and, justlike when it comes to domestic
violence, it's more of a shameon men.
Women do the same thing.
It's just more subtle, it'semotional, it's verbal, it's not
as physical in nature Can be,but I feel as though there is a
(05:01):
balance in engagement on bothends.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great insight.
You know you mentioned that itlooks more subtle for women than
it does for men.
Cheating with another person,like having sex with another
person, and just kind of beingin that addictive cycle of just
(05:29):
choosing all these different, soconstant cheating, right, and
then you have the porn addiction, which is okay, that's your
go-to for releasing and so on,and it's a consistent thing
that's caused significant issuesin the relationship and that's
typically associated with men,but with women you said that
it's more subtle.
Now, by subtle, do you meanthat they're not really seeking
(05:53):
out relationships sexually orare you saying that it's more
emotional and therefore it's notthe same gravity as them?
As, like, what are youreferring to when you say that
it's more subtle for women?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
oh sam, oh sam.
Yes, it's more so emotionalbecause at times not all men,
but a lot struggle with beingable to hold space emotionally
for their partner because therewas a lack of cultivation
(06:26):
emotionally when they weregrowing up in childhood or
they've had experiences inprevious intimate relationships
where their emotions wereweaponized against them in a
sense of oh, you're not manenough, I need you to be more
whatever, whatever masculine andall this other stuff, and it's
just like okay.
(06:46):
So when they get in arelationship with a woman who
they're trying to be with orestablish a relationship they're
they're struggling with, how doI show up?
well some may show up in a waywhere they can't connect
emotionally.
So the woman goes out, finds aman who is more so vulnerable
(07:10):
and sharing, holding space forhow she feels maybe being
engaging and emotionalconnection was her too.
Whatever the case may be, oryou can have a man who is
vulnerable, or you can have aman who is vulnerable with his
significant other or his spouse,and the woman is just like I'm
not trying to engage in that,because she has her own
(07:34):
emotional detachment, emotionaltrauma that she's experienced at
some point in her life andshe's like I am not trying to go
there, but you know that I justwant a man to show up for me in
a materialistic sense or in asense of presenting masculine
protection and all this.
I'm not trying to go down thatroad with being vulnerable and
(07:54):
sharing my emotions.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So, it could be either or Okay.
So they seek that out is whatyou're saying, mm-hmm, mm-hmm,
to avoid the emotional.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
To go back to those emotions, yes, yes, to avoid the
emotional, to going back tothose emotions.
Yes, yes, because there arewomen out here who lack
emotional connection or lackbeing able to be vulnerable with
their emotions, share them,express them, because they
observed women that shared thesame behaviors or they tried to
(08:23):
engage in vulnerabilitiesemotionally and they were
dismissed or neglected or gaslitor whatever the case may be.
So there's some type ofemotional trauma that they've
experienced as well that keepsthem from being able to connect
with a more vulnerable man.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So that brings up one of thecommon questions I think that
people have is is it true, basedon your experience and what
you've seen in the literature,the idea of men typically cheat?
It's a physical thing?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
not emotional right, so it's just for whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It is.
A release, whatever the casewas not that's justifiable, but
that's the reason.
And for women it's moreemotional.
So if they're not gettingemotional needs met in the
relationship, in the marriage,they find it somewhere else and
that opens the door for sexualencounters.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Is that what?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yes, that is the majority of what it looks like.
For men it's a majority, Iwould say there's still.
I would say there's still roomfor those who wears the opposite
right, but for the majorityit's a physical.
You hear like, oh, I didn'treally love her, I really didn't
like her like that.
She provided me sexualengagements that I didn't get
(09:42):
from you, so then you have thatblaming thing again you weren't
fulfilling me sexually, she did,and that's all it was about, or
whatever the case would be.
And then you have the womanwho's just like you weren't
there for me emotionally and Ididn't feel safe with talking to
you about my feelings and youjust ignored me or you didn't
have anything to say.
So I went over here and wastalking to him and he made me
(10:03):
feel seen and heard and helistened to me and all this
other stuff.
That is the majority of what itlooks like.
When it comes to the gendercomparisons, however, there are
outliers, yeah.
Yeah, there are outliers outthere, but literature wise, what
I've seen is the majority.
(10:23):
Yeah.
That's kind of the setup.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
At what point does it become an addiction?
Right, there's a lot of backand forth around the word
addiction, right?
Because some people talk aboutit as a biological thing.
So they try to explain it likein evolutionary terms where well
, you're wired this way, you'rewired to seek out pleasure.
And this comes into conflictfor christians, because the
(10:51):
christian belief is right we dieto sin, we die to ourselves.
So there has to be kind of asuppression of that.
Uh, yeah, I mean a killing ofthat sin, right?
Um, so, so, yeah, so, so whatdoes addiction actually look
like?
When we talk about addiction,it sounds like so far we've been
talking about it's a one-timething, a two-time thing.
Maybe there's forgiveness andyou try to work on things moving
(11:12):
forward.
But when we're talking aboutaddiction, we're talking about
something that's been continuous, that has been very prevalent,
maybe has been going on for along time.
Yeah, what do you refer to whenwe talk about addiction, and
sex addiction in particular?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Okay, so specifically with sex addiction or just
addiction in general, let's justdefine addiction in general
right Addiction, anything thatyou engage in an unhealthy way
that disrupts every aspect ofyour life relationships, work, a
relationship with yourself,just it completely.
(11:51):
You are so consumed in thisparticular thing that you it
takes prevalence over anything.
Or, if you don't want to usethe word, addiction,
compulsivity, you'recompulsively engaging in this,
whatever this is on a consistentbasis where it keeps you so
consumed, but that's all youwant to do.
(12:13):
So that is addiction, or AKAaddiction, compulsivity, right,
and then help in an unhealthyengagement in something.
Yeah, right, okay.
So to address the, thebiological pleasure,
(12:34):
christianity, we die to self,all this other stuff.
You are human.
Okay, you have dopamine in yourbrain.
Anything that triggers thatdopamine to flow, guess what?
It's pleasurable, I don't careif it's you reading a book, you
going outside, you feel the sun,you watering your plants, you
(12:57):
walking your dog it triggersdopamine.
Okay, that doesn't go.
That's how you're made upgenetically.
However, when you're constantlytriggering that dopamine to
flow in something that'sunhealthy, that becomes
addiction or compulsivity.
(13:19):
That's unhealthy.
So you can die to flesh all youwant to as a believer, right,
it's dopamine still is there.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It does not go away yeah, yeah and it's something
that you have to be mindful ofand one and one huge piece of
that, too, is that the dopamine.
Once you receive a certainamount of it, the next step is
wanting more, more.
It goes into that deeper cycle,right?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
yes, yes, so that is the biological makeup of that.
For those who want to side withthe more religious view, the
more Christian, structured,strict view you're human.
It doesn't go away.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Know that If you don't take anything from this
podcast.
Please take that, Take that.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
No, that's good, that's good.
So we're saying, then, thatpeople who are addicted allow
for this space in their lifesexual addiction, whatever that
is to take over, so much so thatit disrupts all the other areas
of their lives yes, addictivenature, and so on.
(14:43):
So what, what characteristicsdo they share Like?
Do they have certain eitherpersonality characteristics or
habits that make them more proneto to being addicted, or is it
just okay.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So and not to interrupt him.
No, you're good, I apologize,you're good.
It can be.
It could be biological right.
It could be biological right,say, there is addiction or
mental health struggles withinparents, grandparents right Sets
up patterns.
It could be societal right wewere exposed from our peers,
(15:23):
siblings, you know, and thatbuilt it, it up.
Or it could be something thatyou just kind of fall into and
that you continuously youtrigger that dopamine and you
just build it up, build it up,building.
You're constantly chasing thathigh, so there's different
levels of how it can form.
However, it still ends upleading to the same thing.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Okay, and you know, one of the things that we often
look to, and you kind of touchedon it the idea of history or
biology.
But there is this one piece oflevel of exposure you kind of
mentioned that.
And I think what we're findingis that the youngest age and
this is for boys, I don't knowwhat it is for girls, it might
be around the same age exposureto pornography is.
(16:11):
I think it's like six years oldthe last time I read, and so
that kind of sets up.
And I've had a lot of clientswho talk about the level of
exposure and it could have beenin passing, was a, an uncle or a
friend that showed themsomething and then from that
point on, moving forward.
So you have these, these, uh,these clients who come in, they
(16:33):
enter a relationship and thishas been going on for for years
right and it may be every coupleof months, or or maybe they
start with it every other day,or whatever the case, is
regarding the addictive piece.
What do you see mostly regardinglike?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
you see a lot of people who, when they share
their story, it started in theirchildhood, like that, they were
exposed to pornography early onso you have a level of exposure
when it comes to porn, or levelof exposure when it comes to
just sexual topics in nature, oryou have sexual trauma.
Yeah, so there's a lot ofsexual trauma there with men and
(17:12):
women.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
It's so sad.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
It is sad.
It is sad and oh, I'm going togo there because this is the
space Within the Christian body.
Yeah, yeah it's so deep becauseit's it could have happened
within the church, within thestate, like it's.
(17:38):
It's so deep, but we sweep itunder the rug.
We sweep it under the rug untilit presents itself in a more
public form and then you want toaddress it right right but
there's a level of let's hide it, let's keep it secret,
specifically in the church.
Yeah, in all religions, but inthe church, and it doesn't
(18:02):
matter Catholic, christian,whatever it's in the church and
it's sad or it's familial andyou're sweeping it under the rug
, especially when it comes toblack and brown people.
Yeah.
You know uncles, cousins,cousins, oh you know if it's
(18:31):
shared or if, if the the, theperson tells their parents or
tell somebody, oh, it's like alittle quick, let's hurry up and
like so this will address it,but you still have your child
exposed to this person becausethe person's part of the family.
But you don't want to cause anyripple effects and I've had
clients to where it was sexualtrauma from their own parents
and it's just in this, thishiding the secrecy.
(18:54):
Then the church knew about itand all this stuff happened, but
it was still a level like thatis re-traumatizing over and
normalizing it instead ofaddressing it and calling it for
what it is right so I have abig issue when it comes to
church and religion and familialand in hiding and yeah, it's a
(19:20):
trigger for me it's a triggerfor me, because I see it, I see
it and it's sad.
It's really sad.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It really is, because it puts that justice hat on for
us, right, Because you wish youcould do something, and both
the client themselves feelpowerless in that situation
because it's a parent, it's afamily member or not being
believed, right, and there isthat shock factor.
I think that for the people,whether it be the parents or
(19:47):
people in the church, when theyhear it it's almost, it's
unbelievable, right.
They think there's no way mybrother, sister would have done
that or my aunt would have donethat.
So yeah.
So how does that show up then?
Because typically, yeah.
So how does that show up then?
Because typically, I feel likechildren are not hurt, right,
(20:13):
there's that piece of childrenare not hurt, that sometimes
they lie and all of these things.
So when it's something big likethis, I think what keeps it
hidden is the shame that thepeople have for allowing it in
some way to happen.
Does that sound about right?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yes, and on top of that, sam, you shift the blame
onto the child.
Yeah, it's the child.
Oh well, you shouldn't havebeen too close, or you shouldn't
have worn that, or youshouldn't have been there, and
all this.
This is a child.
Yeah, an adolescent, all this.
(20:46):
This is a child, yeah, anadolescent, and you're holding
them accountable for trauma thatwas impacted and projected upon
them.
How dare you?
How dare you?
And then, when it's unresolved,then they become adults and
they start acting out in theseunhealthy, compulsive ways
Sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol,whatever.
They start acting out in theseunhealthy, compulsive ways
(21:07):
sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol,whatever.
And you're trying to figure outwhere it all started.
Well, it started when theyshared that they were sexually
traumatized by a family memberabout, by someone within the
church and, excuse me, they wentto tell the person they felt
emotionally safe with and theydidn't believe them and then
(21:28):
blamed them and then stillsubjected them to the person
that did it yeah yeah oh, it'sso deep, sam, it's so deep, it's
so deep and it's so sad.
It's so sad, it's so deep andit's so sad.
It's so sad and it's just like.
That is where the emotionalsafety, feeling seen and feeling
(21:52):
hurt that can't go to my familyor people that I feel that
protect me.
I don't feel safe with them.
If I don't feel safe with them,who can I feel safe with?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's true.
Yeah, so they take that intorelationships and not being able
to be fully vulnerable becauseat some point they're not going
to be believed or heard orsomething which continues to be
backing out.
Yes, they were violated wow, no, this is really.
This is really powerful, kendra.
I think that is something thatmaybe we can address here, where
(22:37):
, um, when parents hearsomething like, or just anyone
in the church, when they hearsomething like this about sexual
abuse, someone gets accused.
Hey, so and so touchedand-sotouched me in this way.
They did this.
What should that process looklike for them to look into that?
Because we want to protect thechildren and we want to go and
directly ask, maybe the personthat was accused.
(22:59):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out.
What could we share with theaudience that?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
how do you address an issue like that?
Well, number one if it's achild, believe them Anything
sexual in nature.
If they come to you and they'relike hey, so-and-so touched me
and it made me feeluncomfortable, or they did,
however, they believe it's achild no child should be talking
to you or sharing things ofsexual nature who weren't
(23:30):
exposed.
So believe them.
Believe them and then you startthe process of let's really
investigate this.
Let us, let's confront thisperson I don't care who is there
with you to confront the person.
We need to confront this personand we need to figure out a way
to be able to keep this babysafe.
(23:53):
If it's, if it's letting theperson go out the church,
disconnect, making sure thatthis person, if it's a family
member, making sure that thisperson is not around this child,
I don't care what you do.
But if you don't, you aresetting this child up to be
traumatized and live a life asan adult of not being
(24:16):
emotionally safe, not secure,validated.
It's just going to be asnowball effect.
Like it's just going to be asnowball effect.
And if we're going to sit uphere and say our children are
our future and we have toprotect the babies, and all that
other stuff, walk in that.
Yeah.
Walk in that.
Don't just give lip service tothat, because you don't
(24:39):
understand what that essentiallywill do to them if they don't
feel a sense of protection.
I don't care.
If it does sound far-fetched,investigate it thoroughly,
thoroughly.
So it's really hard when itcomes to addressing sexual
(25:08):
trauma that has been inflictedupon a child within a family
setting or within the churchsetting.
It is hard because there is asense of of well, how am I gonna
look?
or how is the, how is the churchgonna look like it's?
If you're more worried aboutyour reputation?
Than the protection of anindividual.
You are not in the service ofothers at all.
You do not belong in anyposition of power to help people
(25:31):
do anything.
Yeah.
Because those are the mostvulnerable, are our children.
So you have an obligation toexercise that.
You have a responsibility toreally protect them and show
them the way, because if youdon't, it's going to show up,
it's going to show up.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I was thinking about children usually go to the
people that they feel safestwith and they share with them
and we're reversing, let's say,that that parent addresses like
who did this?
They look into it, they protectthe child.
That security or thatattachment to that security
figure becomes strengthenedbecause I trusted you with
something that I feel scaredabout sharing with you, that I
(26:18):
know could probably cause someissues, and you protected me in
defending so that becomes likethe strongest bond that you
would have.
Yes, it does, and when they'rerepresenting God, or when they
are in the church, like again,it changes or connects to their
view of God, like God protectedme, he's my family, he's this
person, but to your point, it issad that we still hear that
(26:39):
these stories are happeningwithin.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The church.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
But it brings up another issue where the ones who
are not addressing it and Ihave seen this where they have
not dealt with something thatthey have experienced
themselves- right.
Because we usually see, likethis trend of if someone was
sexually abused, then theirgeneration also becomes that and
there's shame around it.
(27:04):
There's so much shame around it, um, and I wonder if you've
seen that as well.
Like this, this generation,it's not a generational, that it
has to happen.
I don't believe indeterministic things like that
but it's more you do see apattern of if someone was
sexually abused.
That tends to happen in the nextgeneration and so on and for
whatever reason, the setting theenvironment, uh, the not
(27:24):
dealing with the shame, yeah,what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
so I I classify it or give it a name of generational
dysfunction.
Right, you say, say your momhad an experience like that.
You come to her and it's atrigger because she went through
(27:51):
the same thing but wasn'tprotected, wasn't validated,
there was nothing, nothinghappened.
They don't know how to show upbecause they're triggered.
That inner child who had that.
You don't know what to do.
You had no form of of exampleon how to address these things.
And it does fall.
(28:12):
Yeah, and so the default iswell, I'm going to engage in the
same behaviors that peopleengaged in when it happened to
me yeah.
So you're creating thisgenerational dysfunction of
pattern and it just keeps untilsomebody stops it.
Somebody says no, I am notgoing to sweep this under the
(28:37):
rug, act like this is nothappening, ignore it whatever,
I'm not going to do this anymore.
So it has to be an intentionalchoice of.
I don't care what this lookslike and how this can make me
seem to other people, it's gottastop, it's gotta stop.
So, yes, it is a sense of of ofhow we say when somebody
(29:06):
inflicts sexual trauma onsomebody else, this probably
happened to them just in thesame.
When somebody's experiencedsexual trauma and they have it
in unresolved and then theirchild or a family member comes
to them and shares that and theydon't they respond the same way
that somebody responded totheir situation and it was
(29:28):
unhealthy and it wasn'tproactive and it didn't protect
them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's the same, it's the same thing yeah same thing,
oh wow, such a tough topic, sucha tough.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh sam, it is it is, but it's like we gotta stop.
We gotta stop hiding.
I'm so tired of hiding, I'm sotired of the church hiding from
the deeper issues.
You want to talk about all thisother stuff and just skim on
this topic and it's just like no, I'm, I'm, I am, I am not that
person.
(30:01):
I am not that person.
I am not that Christian.
I am not that believer, becauseI have personal experience.
So that shifts my approach,because not only am I
professionally knowledgeable andunderstand, but also know it
from a personal perspective.
And I'm not.
I'm not.
No, I'm obligated.
God has called me to use myvoice to share my story.
(30:26):
I don't got no shame or noguilt in anything that I've
experienced, because it helpsshift and change lives.
It brings light to people'sdarkness and it gives them a
sense of hope and inspirationand motivation to do something.
You have to do something inorder to change or shift the
narrative, so I will talk aboutit.
(30:47):
whether it be a church orwhether it be out in the street.
I don't care.
This is the whole.
This is the whole purpose.
We don't.
We don't engage in passions andcallings and being chosen just
so we can hide our light.
God did not call us to hide ourlight at all.
You're supposed to be the saltand the light of the earth,
right?
Well, how do you do it?
(31:07):
You go out there.
You go out there in all yourglory and you believe God, he's
going to protect you and keepyou while you're out here trying
to help others.
And you use your story, you useyour example to change and
shift things.
That is how people becomebetter and healthier versions of
(31:27):
themselves.
You use yourself as a example.
As a sacrifice, you layyourself on the altar.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I love that, kendra.
I love that.
I love your heart for thisspace and for helping people in
that and bringing awareness toit, because I'm with you.
These are things that need tobe discussed and you know the
title of this podcast is GodAttachment Healing.
And the reason a lot of hurt,because a lot of hurt was
(31:58):
happening within the church.
I was noticing that peoplestart to shift in their
attachment or relationship withGod and so, okay.
So how does that healing looklike?
So, if we're hurt inrelationship, we're in a healing
relationship.
That's relationship with peoplethat are trustworthy and also
in a relationship with God.
But one thing, as we're talkingabout this, that came to mind
was this aspect of forgiveness.
(32:19):
Right, when people have beenhurt, sexually abused, there's
trauma, all of these things.
One of the common go-tos forpeople is well, we need to
forgive that person, or viceversa, right, and I'm curious,
you know we talk often about thedifference between forgiveness
and reconciliation the personwho was sexually abused by a
(32:41):
family member, by someone in thechurch, the Christian duty or
the thing that they're going tobe recommended to do, is to
forgive, but that looks verydifferent as an adult, or even
as a child, to forgive someonewho did something like that to
them, right?
So what would forgiveness looklike?
(33:03):
Or is that even I mean, dare Isay, is that even something that
they should be focusing on?
when they're trying to processthat trauma.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Okay.
So people assume thatforgiveness is for the other
person.
Yes and no.
It is because you want torelease them from the guilt and
the obligation and the shame,all that other stuff.
However, it's essentially foryou and until you forgive that
(33:35):
person, you are going to be inyour own prison within yourself
and it cultivates a sense of avictim mindset, a victim mindset
, and you carry that throughresentments, through disconnect,
through the lack of connection,the desire to.
You can't trust people and allthis other stuff.
You imprison yourself.
(33:56):
That's all it is.
Now you can forgive someone.
That doesn't mean that you haveto reconcile.
Where does it say in scripturethat we have to reconcile?
It is not an obligation.
You can forgive someone and youcan let them go.
(34:17):
That's okay.
That's okay.
But you do have to forgive themand you do have to love them,
because that's what you'recalled to do.
But you don't have to forgivethem and you do have to love
them, because that's what you'recalled to do, but you don't
have to have them in your space,you don't have to have them in
your environment.
You don't have to talk to themanymore.
After you release them, you letthem go and you move on with
(34:41):
your life.
This person, in whatever waythat that happened, won't get
triggered again becauseessentially it may ptsd kind of
carries on through life.
You know what I'm saying.
But at the end of the day youforgive them, you forgive
yourself, but you move onthrough your healing process and
working through that.
(35:01):
Now, if you want to reconcilewith this person, that is your
choice.
Yeah.
That is your choice.
I've seen it done.
I've seen it done, where sexualtrauma has been inflicted upon
a person and they have workedthrough and healed, excuse me,
(35:22):
and processed and understood andreleased.
Yet they still wanted toreconcile, and that was okay too
.
They just wanted to be able tobe in a space to move past this
elephant in the room.
Let's call it for what it is,let's acknowledge it, let's heal
(35:43):
through it, let's be active onbeing able to letting this go,
letting the denial go, lettingthe shame go, letting the guilt
go.
All this I forgive you.
So I'm releasing you from aprison that you've put me in but
you also put yourself in.
However, I still want to be incommunion with you, that's okay,
(36:04):
too.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, it's so powerful.
Yeah, difficult but powerful,and I like that you provided
those aspects of whatforgiveness is and what it isn't
.
We kind of jumped into thistopic on what the restoration
process will look like afterbetrayal, but I think one of the
things that we realize as we'retalking now is that this aspect
(36:29):
of betrayal really stems fromunresolved trauma.
Yeah, and what we're seeing ismaybe a lot of unresolved trauma
is leading to these aspects ofbetrayal.
So, as we've discussed that, isthere anything that we missed,
anything that you feel we needto address so that the audience
(36:51):
leaves with an understanding ofyou know, there's a lot of
people that are hurt in thechurch, and if this is you right
now, who maybe haven'taddressed unresolved trauma or
betrayal or sexual abuse oranything like that, what would
they need to do?
We talk about personal healing,taking accountability,
forgiveness and so on, but isthere something that you would
(37:12):
share with them?
That would be helpful?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, so I'll leave the audience with this, right.
We all walk around in life asadults with emotional baggage.
Right, it has a lot of stuff init, but we're all carrying it
around, right, it's just alittle carry on, stop and open
(37:36):
it up, yeah.
Open it up.
Sift through what belongs toyou and what doesn't.
Mm-hmm.
And when you figure out whatdoes start there, because you
have it, you have it, this stateof denial that, oh, I'm fine,
(37:57):
no, you're not.
None of us are fine, we'renever fine.
We are never fine.
There is something going onwithin us at all times that
we're battling constantly,constantly Acknowledge it,
acknowledge it, give yourselfgrace to work through it.
(38:18):
But you can't continue to existin this state of denial because
it's going to be a barrier fromyou really being able to walk
fully and lighthearted and feela sense of liberation in your
relationship with God, in yourrelationship with others.
It is really Impacting yourability to be fulfilled in life,
(38:44):
in your relationships, in thethings that you're passionate
about, because it's a constantnag.
It's a constant nag and itdoesn't go anywhere.
No it doesn't go anywhere.
It follows you around.
It is your shadow, it is yourshadow self.
So, yes, yes, let's deal withthis stuff.
(39:06):
Just start there.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Just start there.
Good words, good words, kendra,wow, wow.
Really, this was a heavy topic,but I'm glad we touched on it.
Me too, you have greatexpertise and insights on the
topic and I really appreciatethat you sharing with us and the
audience, and we'll have to doanother one.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
We will, I sharing with us and the audience, and
we'll have to do another one.
We will.
I like talking to you, sam,you're so awesome but um, but
yeah, thank you, kendra.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Kendra, is there anything that you'd like to
share with us about contact youknow more about you, or
information anything?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
yeah, so, um, audience members, if you want to
find me, reach out to me.
You.
You can Google Kendra King,charlotte, north Carolina.
I will come up, or you can goto the
HealingHeartTherapyCentercom, oryou can email me, kendra at the
HealingHeartTherapyCentercom.
(40:00):
And yeah, just go from there,you can find me Absolutely,
absolutely Great, greatconversation Kendra.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Absolutely, absolutely Great, great
conversation Kendra.
I appreciate it and yeah,hopefully we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yes, soon.
Thanks, Sam.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Thank you, Kendra.
All right, all right, everyone, welcome back to the
God Attachment Healing Podcast.
I'm doing a series right now onbetrayal trauma with Ms Kendra
King and she was so great in ourfirst episode sharing about
what betrayal trauma is and whatthat healing process can look
like for people.
And today we're going to talk alittle bit deeper, a little bit
(00:27):
more about sex addicts and whatthat restoration process and
redemption process looks likeafterwards.
This is again a topic thathappens in Christian circles and
we don't talk about it openlyenough and, as we learned in our
last episode, one of thehealing components to dealing
with betrayal trauma is completevulnerability and openness and
(00:50):
putting everything on the table,which is painful, right, and
especially when it comes to thisidea of having a spouse or
partner that is a sex addict.
You know that creates thisongoing feelings of PTSD
symptoms, right of betrayal, andmaybe even make some question
their faith.
So we'll talk a little bitabout that what that process
(01:13):
looks like, what restoration canlook like.
Does it always meanreconciliation and even touch on
the aspect of forgiveness?
But, kendra, welcome back tothe show.
It's good having you.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thank you, it was so good to do the first episode and
I am so honored to be back tothe show.
It's good having you.
Thank you, it was so good to dothe first episode and I am so
honored to be back for thesecond one awesome, awesome, I
am as well.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
This is this is a great topic to discuss, not so
much because it's uh, obviouslyit's not a a fun topic, but it's
a necessary topic, right onethat needs to discussed, and
even you mentioned in the lastepisode about how the church
handles things and due to notbeing equipped to do so or only
(01:52):
to being taught.
One way which we discussed wassometimes we try to approach
emotional, mental, physicalaspects by only addressing the
spiritual, and that's just notthe way that God wired us right.
Right.
Right, right.
But today's topic is a littlebit more specific, and this is a
growing problem for both menand women.
Men have been more known to bethe sex addicts.
(02:14):
Right Right.
There's this growing literatureon women also participating in
this.
Yes, yes, can you share alittle bit about that, like what
you've seen, because this isnot something that this is
something that the culture hasshifted.
I think in men and women.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
But yeah what have you seen regarding that?
So I believe, in regards to themen being more prevalent in
this particular field, it's justbecause of how they get caught
right.
There's a sense of of womenbeing able to kind of manipulate
(02:56):
and kind of uh, communicate ina way, or or operate in a way
where it's kind of low-key.
It's not, it's more, you canexplain things away.
It's not as as just out there,as as men engage in it.
So it's it's more subtle.
(03:16):
Women are more subtle in theway they approach things.
However, it it still hurts thesame way, it still hurts the
same way.
It still hurts.
The same way and, from my levelof understanding, is that
there's some men that stay, somemen do not.
There's a nature.
(03:36):
I think it has a lot to do withhow the societal norms and
stereotypes of men and women andthe expectations of well, if a
man cheats on a woman, sheshould stay.
In comparison, if a womancheats on a man, you just leave
her.
Why?
Why?
(03:57):
I've always had that question.
It's like this hierarchy, justlike when they talk about
equality and work and pay andall.
It's the same setup inrelationships and it's
unfortunate because men andwomen, both are human beings.
There's still a level of hurt,there's still a level of
betrayal.
(04:17):
However, there's still a gracethat should be shown, especially
if she wants to do better, bebetter, show you something
different, work on herself.
I think she's owed the same,the same grace, as if the shoe
was on the other foot these arejust my thoughts.
(04:38):
It's just my thoughts, you know,but it's it's.
It's unfair at times and, justlike when it comes to domestic
violence, it's more of a shameon men.
Women do the same thing.
It's just more subtle, it'semotional, it's verbal, it's not
as physical in nature Can be,but I feel as though there is a
(05:01):
balance in engagement on bothends.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great insight.
You know you mentioned that itlooks more subtle for women than
it does for men.
Cheating with another person,like having sex with another
person, and just kind of beingin that addictive cycle of just
(05:29):
choosing all these different, soconstant cheating, right, and
then you have the porn addiction, which is okay, that's your
go-to for releasing and so on,and it's a consistent thing
that's caused significant issuesin the relationship and that's
typically associated with men,but with women you said that
it's more subtle.
Now, by subtle, do you meanthat they're not really seeking
(05:53):
out relationships sexually orare you saying that it's more
emotional and therefore it's notthe same gravity as them?
As, like, what are youreferring to when you say that
it's more subtle for women?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
oh sam, oh sam.
Yes, it's more so emotionalbecause at times not all men,
but a lot struggle with beingable to hold space emotionally
for their partner because therewas a lack of cultivation
(06:26):
emotionally when they weregrowing up in childhood or
they've had experiences inprevious intimate relationships
where their emotions wereweaponized against them in a
sense of oh, you're not manenough, I need you to be more
whatever, whatever masculine andall this other stuff, and it's
just like okay.
(06:46):
So when they get in arelationship with a woman who
they're trying to be with orestablish a relationship they're
they're struggling with, how doI show up?
well some may show up in a waywhere they can't connect
emotionally.
So the woman goes out, finds aman who is more so vulnerable
(07:10):
and sharing, holding space forhow she feels maybe being
engaging and emotionalconnection was her too.
Whatever the case may be, oryou can have a man who is
vulnerable, or you can have aman who is vulnerable with his
significant other or his spouse,and the woman is just like I'm
not trying to engage in that,because she has her own
(07:34):
emotional detachment, emotionaltrauma that she's experienced at
some point in her life andshe's like I am not trying to go
there, but you know that I justwant a man to show up for me in
a materialistic sense or in asense of presenting masculine
protection and all this.
I'm not trying to go down thatroad with being vulnerable and
(07:54):
sharing my emotions.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So, it could be either or Okay.
So they seek that out is whatyou're saying, mm-hmm, mm-hmm,
to avoid the emotional.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
To go back to those emotions, yes, yes, to avoid the
emotional, to going back tothose emotions.
Yes, yes, because there arewomen out here who lack
emotional connection or lackbeing able to be vulnerable with
their emotions, share them,express them, because they
observed women that shared thesame behaviors or they tried to
(08:23):
engage in vulnerabilitiesemotionally and they were
dismissed or neglected or gaslitor whatever the case may be.
So there's some type ofemotional trauma that they've
experienced as well that keepsthem from being able to connect
with a more vulnerable man.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So that brings up one of thecommon questions I think that
people have is is it true, basedon your experience and what
you've seen in the literature,the idea of men typically cheat?
It's a physical thing?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
not emotional right, so it's just for whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It is.
A release, whatever the casewas not that's justifiable, but
that's the reason.
And for women it's moreemotional.
So if they're not gettingemotional needs met in the
relationship, in the marriage,they find it somewhere else and
that opens the door for sexualencounters.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Is that what?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yes, that is the majority of what it looks like.
For men it's a majority, Iwould say there's still.
I would say there's still roomfor those who wears the opposite
right, but for the majorityit's a physical.
You hear like, oh, I didn'treally love her, I really didn't
like her like that.
She provided me sexualengagements that I didn't get
(09:42):
from you, so then you have thatblaming thing again you weren't
fulfilling me sexually, she did,and that's all it was about, or
whatever the case would be.
And then you have the womanwho's just like you weren't
there for me emotionally and Ididn't feel safe with talking to
you about my feelings and youjust ignored me or you didn't
have anything to say.
So I went over here and wastalking to him and he made me
(10:03):
feel seen and heard and helistened to me and all this
other stuff.
That is the majority of what itlooks like.
When it comes to the gendercomparisons, however, there are
outliers, yeah.
Yeah, there are outliers outthere, but literature wise, what
I've seen is the majority.
(10:23):
Yeah.
That's kind of the setup.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
At what point does it become an addiction?
Right, there's a lot of backand forth around the word
addiction, right?
Because some people talk aboutit as a biological thing.
So they try to explain it likein evolutionary terms where well
, you're wired this way, you'rewired to seek out pleasure.
And this comes into conflictfor christians, because the
(10:51):
christian belief is right we dieto sin, we die to ourselves.
So there has to be kind of asuppression of that.
Uh, yeah, I mean a killing ofthat sin, right?
Um, so, so, yeah, so, so whatdoes addiction actually look
like?
When we talk about addiction,it sounds like so far we've been
talking about it's a one-timething, a two-time thing.
Maybe there's forgiveness andyou try to work on things moving
(11:12):
forward.
But when we're talking aboutaddiction, we're talking about
something that's been continuous, that has been very prevalent,
maybe has been going on for along time.
Yeah, what do you refer to whenwe talk about addiction, and
sex addiction in particular?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Okay, so specifically with sex addiction or just
addiction in general, let's justdefine addiction in general
right Addiction, anything thatyou engage in an unhealthy way
that disrupts every aspect ofyour life relationships, work, a
relationship with yourself,just it completely.
(11:51):
You are so consumed in thisparticular thing that you it
takes prevalence over anything.
Or, if you don't want to usethe word, addiction,
compulsivity, you'recompulsively engaging in this,
whatever this is on a consistentbasis where it keeps you so
consumed, but that's all youwant to do.
(12:13):
So that is addiction, or AKAaddiction, compulsivity, right,
and then help in an unhealthyengagement in something.
Yeah, right, okay.
So to address the, thebiological pleasure,
(12:34):
christianity, we die to self,all this other stuff.
You are human.
Okay, you have dopamine in yourbrain.
Anything that triggers thatdopamine to flow, guess what?
It's pleasurable, I don't careif it's you reading a book, you
going outside, you feel the sun,you watering your plants, you
(12:57):
walking your dog it triggersdopamine.
Okay, that doesn't go.
That's how you're made upgenetically.
However, when you're constantlytriggering that dopamine to
flow in something that'sunhealthy, that becomes
addiction or compulsivity.
(13:19):
That's unhealthy.
So you can die to flesh all youwant to as a believer, right,
it's dopamine still is there.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It does not go away yeah, yeah and it's something
that you have to be mindful ofand one and one huge piece of
that, too, is that the dopamine.
Once you receive a certainamount of it, the next step is
wanting more, more.
It goes into that deeper cycle,right?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
yes, yes, so that is the biological makeup of that.
For those who want to side withthe more religious view, the
more Christian, structured,strict view you're human.
It doesn't go away.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Know that If you don't take anything from this
podcast.
Please take that, Take that.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
No, that's good, that's good.
So we're saying, then, thatpeople who are addicted allow
for this space in their lifesexual addiction, whatever that
is to take over, so much so thatit disrupts all the other areas
of their lives yes, addictivenature, and so on.
(14:43):
So what, what characteristicsdo they share Like?
Do they have certain eitherpersonality characteristics or
habits that make them more proneto to being addicted, or is it
just okay.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So and not to interrupt him.
No, you're good, I apologize,you're good.
It can be.
It could be biological right.
It could be biological right,say, there is addiction or
mental health struggles withinparents, grandparents right Sets
up patterns.
It could be societal right wewere exposed from our peers,
(15:23):
siblings, you know, and thatbuilt it, it up.
Or it could be something thatyou just kind of fall into and
that you continuously youtrigger that dopamine and you
just build it up, build it up,building.
You're constantly chasing thathigh, so there's different
levels of how it can form.
However, it still ends upleading to the same thing.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Okay, and you know, one of the things that we often
look to, and you kind of touchedon it the idea of history or
biology.
But there is this one piece oflevel of exposure you kind of
mentioned that.
And I think what we're findingis that the youngest age and
this is for boys, I don't knowwhat it is for girls, it might
be around the same age exposureto pornography is.
(16:11):
I think it's like six years oldthe last time I read, and so
that kind of sets up.
And I've had a lot of clientswho talk about the level of
exposure and it could have beenin passing, was a, an uncle or a
friend that showed themsomething and then from that
point on, moving forward.
So you have these, these, uh,these clients who come in, they
(16:33):
enter a relationship and thishas been going on for for years
right and it may be every coupleof months, or or maybe they
start with it every other day,or whatever the case, is
regarding the addictive piece.
What do you see mostly regardinglike?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
you see a lot of people who, when they share
their story, it started in theirchildhood, like that, they were
exposed to pornography early onso you have a level of exposure
when it comes to porn, or levelof exposure when it comes to
just sexual topics in nature, oryou have sexual trauma.
Yeah, so there's a lot ofsexual trauma there with men and
(17:12):
women.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
It's so sad.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
It is sad.
It is sad and oh, I'm going togo there because this is the
space Within the Christian body.
Yeah, yeah it's so deep becauseit's it could have happened
within the church, within thestate, like it's.
(17:38):
It's so deep, but we sweep itunder the rug.
We sweep it under the rug untilit presents itself in a more
public form and then you want toaddress it right right but
there's a level of let's hide it, let's keep it secret,
specifically in the church.
Yeah, in all religions, but inthe church, and it doesn't
(18:02):
matter Catholic, christian,whatever it's in the church and
it's sad or it's familial andyou're sweeping it under the rug
, especially when it comes toblack and brown people.
Yeah.
You know uncles, cousins,cousins, oh you know if it's
(18:31):
shared or if, if the the, theperson tells their parents or
tell somebody, oh, it's like alittle quick, let's hurry up and
like so this will address it,but you still have your child
exposed to this person becausethe person's part of the family.
But you don't want to cause anyripple effects and I've had
clients to where it was sexualtrauma from their own parents
and it's just in this, thishiding the secrecy.
(18:54):
Then the church knew about itand all this stuff happened, but
it was still a level like thatis re-traumatizing over and
normalizing it instead ofaddressing it and calling it for
what it is right so I have abig issue when it comes to
church and religion and familialand in hiding and yeah, it's a
(19:20):
trigger for me it's a triggerfor me, because I see it, I see
it and it's sad.
It's really sad.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It really is, because it puts that justice hat on for
us, right, Because you wish youcould do something, and both
the client themselves feelpowerless in that situation
because it's a parent, it's afamily member or not being
believed, right, and there isthat shock factor.
I think that for the people,whether it be the parents or
(19:47):
people in the church, when theyhear it it's almost, it's
unbelievable, right.
They think there's no way mybrother, sister would have done
that or my aunt would have donethat.
So yeah.
So how does that show up then?
Because typically, yeah.
So how does that show up then?
Because typically, I feel likechildren are not hurt, right,
(20:13):
there's that piece of childrenare not hurt, that sometimes
they lie and all of these things.
So when it's something big likethis, I think what keeps it
hidden is the shame that thepeople have for allowing it in
some way to happen.
Does that sound about right?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yes, and on top of that, sam, you shift the blame
onto the child.
Yeah, it's the child.
Oh well, you shouldn't havebeen too close, or you shouldn't
have worn that, or youshouldn't have been there, and
all this.
This is a child.
Yeah, an adolescent, all this.
(20:46):
This is a child, yeah, anadolescent, and you're holding
them accountable for trauma thatwas impacted and projected upon
them.
How dare you?
How dare you?
And then, when it's unresolved,then they become adults and
they start acting out in theseunhealthy, compulsive ways
Sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol,whatever.
They start acting out in theseunhealthy, compulsive ways
(21:07):
sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol,whatever.
And you're trying to figure outwhere it all started.
Well, it started when theyshared that they were sexually
traumatized by a family memberabout, by someone within the
church and, excuse me, they wentto tell the person they felt
emotionally safe with and theydidn't believe them and then
(21:28):
blamed them and then stillsubjected them to the person
that did it yeah yeah oh, it'sso deep, sam, it's so deep, it's
so deep and it's so sad.
It's so sad, it's so deep andit's so sad.
It's so sad and it's just like.
That is where the emotionalsafety, feeling seen and feeling
(21:52):
hurt that can't go to my familyor people that I feel that
protect me.
I don't feel safe with them.
If I don't feel safe with them,who can I feel safe with?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's true.
Yeah, so they take that intorelationships and not being able
to be fully vulnerable becauseat some point they're not going
to be believed or heard orsomething which continues to be
backing out.
Yes, they were violated wow, no, this is really.
This is really powerful, kendra.
I think that is something thatmaybe we can address here, where
(22:37):
, um, when parents hearsomething like, or just anyone
in the church, when they hearsomething like this about sexual
abuse, someone gets accused.
Hey, so and so touchedand-sotouched me in this way.
They did this.
What should that process looklike for them to look into that?
Because we want to protect thechildren and we want to go and
directly ask, maybe the personthat was accused.
(22:59):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out.
What could we share with theaudience that?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
how do you address an issue like that?
Well, number one if it's achild, believe them Anything
sexual in nature.
If they come to you and they'relike hey, so-and-so touched me
and it made me feeluncomfortable, or they did,
however, they believe it's achild no child should be talking
to you or sharing things ofsexual nature who weren't
(23:30):
exposed.
So believe them.
Believe them and then you startthe process of let's really
investigate this.
Let us, let's confront thisperson I don't care who is there
with you to confront the person.
We need to confront this personand we need to figure out a way
to be able to keep this babysafe.
(23:53):
If it's, if it's letting theperson go out the church,
disconnect, making sure thatthis person, if it's a family
member, making sure that thisperson is not around this child,
I don't care what you do.
But if you don't, you aresetting this child up to be
traumatized and live a life asan adult of not being
(24:16):
emotionally safe, not secure,validated.
It's just going to be asnowball effect.
Like it's just going to be asnowball effect.
And if we're going to sit uphere and say our children are
our future and we have toprotect the babies, and all that
other stuff, walk in that.
Yeah.
Walk in that.
Don't just give lip service tothat, because you don't
(24:39):
understand what that essentiallywill do to them if they don't
feel a sense of protection.
I don't care.
If it does sound far-fetched,investigate it thoroughly,
thoroughly.
So it's really hard when itcomes to addressing sexual
(25:08):
trauma that has been inflictedupon a child within a family
setting or within the churchsetting.
It is hard because there is asense of of well, how am I gonna
look?
or how is the, how is the churchgonna look like it's?
If you're more worried aboutyour reputation?
Than the protection of anindividual.
You are not in the service ofothers at all.
You do not belong in anyposition of power to help people
(25:31):
do anything.
Yeah.
Because those are the mostvulnerable, are our children.
So you have an obligation toexercise that.
You have a responsibility toreally protect them and show
them the way, because if youdon't, it's going to show up,
it's going to show up.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I was thinking about children usually go to the
people that they feel safestwith and they share with them
and we're reversing, let's say,that that parent addresses like
who did this?
They look into it, they protectthe child.
That security or thatattachment to that security
figure becomes strengthenedbecause I trusted you with
something that I feel scaredabout sharing with you, that I
(26:18):
know could probably cause someissues, and you protected me in
defending so that becomes likethe strongest bond that you
would have.
Yes, it does, and when they'rerepresenting God, or when they
are in the church, like again,it changes or connects to their
view of God, like God protectedme, he's my family, he's this
person, but to your point, it issad that we still hear that
(26:39):
these stories are happeningwithin.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The church.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
But it brings up another issue where the ones who
are not addressing it and Ihave seen this where they have
not dealt with something thatthey have experienced
themselves- right.
Because we usually see, likethis trend of if someone was
sexually abused, then theirgeneration also becomes that and
there's shame around it.
(27:04):
There's so much shame around it, um, and I wonder if you've
seen that as well.
Like this, this generation,it's not a generational, that it
has to happen.
I don't believe indeterministic things like that
but it's more you do see apattern of if someone was
sexually abused.
That tends to happen in the nextgeneration and so on and for
whatever reason, the setting theenvironment, uh, the not
(27:24):
dealing with the shame, yeah,what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
so I I classify it or give it a name of generational
dysfunction.
Right, you say, say your momhad an experience like that.
You come to her and it's atrigger because she went through
(27:51):
the same thing but wasn'tprotected, wasn't validated,
there was nothing, nothinghappened.
They don't know how to show upbecause they're triggered.
That inner child who had that.
You don't know what to do.
You had no form of of exampleon how to address these things.
And it does fall.
(28:12):
Yeah, and so the default iswell, I'm going to engage in the
same behaviors that peopleengaged in when it happened to
me yeah.
So you're creating thisgenerational dysfunction of
pattern and it just keeps untilsomebody stops it.
Somebody says no, I am notgoing to sweep this under the
(28:37):
rug, act like this is nothappening, ignore it whatever,
I'm not going to do this anymore.
So it has to be an intentionalchoice of.
I don't care what this lookslike and how this can make me
seem to other people, it's gottastop, it's gotta stop.
So, yes, it is a sense of of ofhow we say when somebody
(29:06):
inflicts sexual trauma onsomebody else, this probably
happened to them just in thesame.
When somebody's experiencedsexual trauma and they have it
in unresolved and then theirchild or a family member comes
to them and shares that and theydon't they respond the same way
that somebody responded totheir situation and it was
(29:28):
unhealthy and it wasn'tproactive and it didn't protect
them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's the same, it's the same thing yeah same thing,
oh wow, such a tough topic, sucha tough.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh sam, it is it is, but it's like we gotta stop.
We gotta stop hiding.
I'm so tired of hiding, I'm sotired of the church hiding from
the deeper issues.
You want to talk about all thisother stuff and just skim on
this topic and it's just like no, I'm, I'm, I am, I am not that
person.
(30:01):
I am not that person.
I am not that Christian.
I am not that believer, becauseI have personal experience.
So that shifts my approach,because not only am I
professionally knowledgeable andunderstand, but also know it
from a personal perspective.
And I'm not.
I'm not.
No, I'm obligated.
God has called me to use myvoice to share my story.
(30:26):
I don't got no shame or noguilt in anything that I've
experienced, because it helpsshift and change lives.
It brings light to people'sdarkness and it gives them a
sense of hope and inspirationand motivation to do something.
You have to do something inorder to change or shift the
narrative, so I will talk aboutit.
(30:47):
whether it be a church orwhether it be out in the street.
I don't care.
This is the whole.
This is the whole purpose.
We don't.
We don't engage in passions andcallings and being chosen just
so we can hide our light.
God did not call us to hide ourlight at all.
You're supposed to be the saltand the light of the earth,
right?
Well, how do you do it?
(31:07):
You go out there.
You go out there in all yourglory and you believe God, he's
going to protect you and keepyou while you're out here trying
to help others.
And you use your story, you useyour example to change and
shift things.
That is how people becomebetter and healthier versions of
(31:27):
themselves.
You use yourself as a example.
As a sacrifice, you layyourself on the altar.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I love that, kendra.
I love that.
I love your heart for thisspace and for helping people in
that and bringing awareness toit, because I'm with you.
These are things that need tobe discussed and you know the
title of this podcast is GodAttachment Healing.
And the reason a lot of hurt,because a lot of hurt was
(31:58):
happening within the church.
I was noticing that peoplestart to shift in their
attachment or relationship withGod and so, okay.
So how does that healing looklike?
So, if we're hurt inrelationship, we're in a healing
relationship.
That's relationship with peoplethat are trustworthy and also
in a relationship with God.
But one thing, as we're talkingabout this, that came to mind
was this aspect of forgiveness.
(32:19):
Right, when people have beenhurt, sexually abused, there's
trauma, all of these things.
One of the common go-tos forpeople is well, we need to
forgive that person, or viceversa, right, and I'm curious,
you know we talk often about thedifference between forgiveness
and reconciliation the personwho was sexually abused by a
(32:41):
family member, by someone in thechurch, the Christian duty or
the thing that they're going tobe recommended to do, is to
forgive, but that looks verydifferent as an adult, or even
as a child, to forgive someonewho did something like that to
them, right?
So what would forgiveness looklike?
(33:03):
Or is that even I mean, dare Isay, is that even something that
they should be focusing on?
when they're trying to processthat trauma.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Okay.
So people assume thatforgiveness is for the other
person.
Yes and no.
It is because you want torelease them from the guilt and
the obligation and the shame,all that other stuff.
However, it's essentially foryou and until you forgive that
(33:35):
person, you are going to be inyour own prison within yourself
and it cultivates a sense of avictim mindset, a victim mindset
, and you carry that throughresentments, through disconnect,
through the lack of connection,the desire to.
You can't trust people and allthis other stuff.
You imprison yourself.
(33:56):
That's all it is.
Now you can forgive someone.
That doesn't mean that you haveto reconcile.
Where does it say in scripturethat we have to reconcile?
It is not an obligation.
You can forgive someone and youcan let them go.
(34:17):
That's okay.
That's okay.
But you do have to forgive themand you do have to love them,
because that's what you'recalled to do.
But you don't have to forgivethem and you do have to love
them, because that's what you'recalled to do, but you don't
have to have them in your space,you don't have to have them in
your environment.
You don't have to talk to themanymore.
After you release them, you letthem go and you move on with
(34:41):
your life.
This person, in whatever waythat that happened, won't get
triggered again becauseessentially it may ptsd kind of
carries on through life.
You know what I'm saying.
But at the end of the day youforgive them, you forgive
yourself, but you move onthrough your healing process and
working through that.
(35:01):
Now, if you want to reconcilewith this person, that is your
choice.
Yeah.
That is your choice.
I've seen it done.
I've seen it done, where sexualtrauma has been inflicted upon
a person and they have workedthrough and healed, excuse me,
(35:22):
and processed and understood andreleased.
Yet they still wanted toreconcile, and that was okay too
.
They just wanted to be able tobe in a space to move past this
elephant in the room.
Let's call it for what it is,let's acknowledge it, let's heal
(35:43):
through it, let's be active onbeing able to letting this go,
letting the denial go, lettingthe shame go, letting the guilt
go.
All this I forgive you.
So I'm releasing you from aprison that you've put me in but
you also put yourself in.
However, I still want to be incommunion with you, that's okay,
(36:04):
too.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, it's so powerful.
Yeah, difficult but powerful,and I like that you provided
those aspects of whatforgiveness is and what it isn't
.
We kind of jumped into thistopic on what the restoration
process will look like afterbetrayal, but I think one of the
things that we realize as we'retalking now is that this aspect
(36:29):
of betrayal really stems fromunresolved trauma.
Yeah, and what we're seeing ismaybe a lot of unresolved trauma
is leading to these aspects ofbetrayal.
So, as we've discussed that, isthere anything that we missed,
anything that you feel we needto address so that the audience
(36:51):
leaves with an understanding ofyou know, there's a lot of
people that are hurt in thechurch, and if this is you right
now, who maybe haven'taddressed unresolved trauma or
betrayal or sexual abuse oranything like that, what would
they need to do?
We talk about personal healing,taking accountability,
forgiveness and so on, but isthere something that you would
(37:12):
share with them?
That would be helpful?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, so I'll leave the audience with this, right.
We all walk around in life asadults with emotional baggage.
Right, it has a lot of stuff init, but we're all carrying it
around, right, it's just alittle carry on, stop and open
(37:36):
it up, yeah.
Open it up.
Sift through what belongs toyou and what doesn't.
Mm-hmm.
And when you figure out whatdoes start there, because you
have it, you have it, this stateof denial that, oh, I'm fine,
(37:57):
no, you're not.
None of us are fine, we'renever fine.
We are never fine.
There is something going onwithin us at all times that
we're battling constantly,constantly Acknowledge it,
acknowledge it, give yourselfgrace to work through it.
(38:18):
But you can't continue to existin this state of denial because
it's going to be a barrier fromyou really being able to walk
fully and lighthearted and feela sense of liberation in your
relationship with God, in yourrelationship with others.
It is really Impacting yourability to be fulfilled in life,
(38:44):
in your relationships, in thethings that you're passionate
about, because it's a constantnag.
It's a constant nag and itdoesn't go anywhere.
No it doesn't go anywhere.
It follows you around.
It is your shadow, it is yourshadow self.
So, yes, yes, let's deal withthis stuff.
(39:06):
Just start there.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Just start there.
Good words, good words, kendra,wow, wow.
Really, this was a heavy topic,but I'm glad we touched on it.
Me too, you have greatexpertise and insights on the
topic and I really appreciatethat you sharing with us and the
audience, and we'll have to doanother one.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
We will, I sharing with us and the audience, and
we'll have to do another one.
We will.
I like talking to you, sam,you're so awesome but um, but
yeah, thank you, kendra.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Kendra, is there anything that you'd like to
share with us about contact youknow more about you, or
information anything?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
yeah, so, um, audience members, if you want to
find me, reach out to me.
You.
You can Google Kendra King,charlotte, north Carolina.
I will come up, or you can goto the
HealingHeartTherapyCentercom, oryou can email me, kendra at the
HealingHeartTherapyCentercom.
(40:00):
And yeah, just go from there,you can find me Absolutely,
absolutely Great, greatconversation Kendra.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Absolutely, absolutely Great, great
conversation Kendra.
I appreciate it and yeah,hopefully we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yes, soon.
Thanks, Sam.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Thank you, Kendra.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com