June 23, 2024 • 42 mins
Jesus was known for the way he interacted with those on the margins of society – the tax collectors everyone despised, the lepers no-one would touch, the cripples and the prostitutes society rejected. Jesus’ teaching and interactions constantly reflected God’s heart for those who had been forgotten and left behind. So today, when we hear the Spirit as Jesus’ continuing voice, we shouldn’t be surprised that we find themselves in similar places! That is, we will be led to love the poor as Jesus did.
In this episode, we talk about the revelatory work of Holy Spirit among the poor with someone who is doing just that. With his wife Gracie, Bob Ekblad lives out the heart of Jesus through the power and revelation of the Spirit. After living several years working in sustainable farming in Honduras and then studying theology in France, Bob and Gracie lead a church community known as Tierra Nueva (New Earth) in Washington state USA. Here, they come alongside immigrants, street people, addicts and prisoners to demonstrate the love of Jesus in practical and profound ways.
You’ll hear about:
- Bob and Gracie’s fascinating story from a kibbutz in the Middle East to the cornfields of Honduras, the study halls of Paris and the streets of Washington state…
- How working with impoverished peasants in sustainable farming led to an unexpected request: “A lot of us are tough. Some of us are violent. We don’t put God first, but we notice you do. Could we begin our weekly farming courses with a Bible study?” Bob tells of his surprise and excitement as well as a deep sense of trepidation:
“You pull out a Bible in that setting, and the people look like stray city dogs who are used to being kicked. They sleek off and lurk away, fearful of being beaten by the Bible, because that’s how the Bible has been used…”
- How reading the Bible with semi-literate, impoverished Latinos expanded Bob’s view of the Gospel story
“When people are marginalised and from the lowest classes of society, they abandon all hope and throw themselves into a life of drinking and violence.”
- A defining moment in Bob’s journey towards understanding the Holy Spirit…
“I see you in a circle of men in red uniforms sitting on blue plastic chairs. I think they’re prisoners. I hear the Father saying, “I love how you love my prisoners.”
- The shift in Bob’s ministry after receiving prayer for a healing anointing. Bob tells how Jesus’ teaching from Luke 15 became relevant for a self-confessed racist, neo-Nazi gang member in jail who wanted to learn how to get along with Mexicans. After the Bible study, a word from God and a simple prayer led to a miraculous healing for one of the jail members.
- The connection between hearing the Spirit and developing a heart for those who have suffered, even violent offenders. Bob shares how hearing God speak about the health conditions and root emotional problems of others revealed the kind of grace that did not require change of even faith to bring healing. In his words, “pre-emptive love doesn’t require a response – it elicits a response.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
God Conversations with Tanya Harris.
Let me ask you that question. What does God tell?
Thunder. Lightning.
Mother Teresa? Someone asked.
Her when it's got to. Speak to you and she said
whenever he wants so essentiallythis is the Bible is a
collection of God conversations if you like I had a vision of a
car accident and I'm sitting on the couch thinking why have I
(00:21):
just seen this how? Could I know if God was speaking
to you? And how could I know that that
dream or that thought was actually just me thinking about,
I have said the bad? Pizza Jesus said we'd recognise
his voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation. Jesus was known for the way he
(00:42):
interacted with those on the margins of society, the despised
tax collectors, the leopards no one would touch, the cripples
and the prostitutes. His teaching and interactions
constantly reflected God's heartfor those who'd been forgotten,
left behind and oppressed. So for those who are hearing
(01:02):
this spirit today as Jesus's continuing voice, we shouldn't
be surprised that we find ourselves in similar places.
What does hearing God's voice among the poor look like in our
world today? Hi and welcome to the God
Conversations podcast. My name is Tanya Harris, and I'm
a pastor, practical theologian, author, and the founding
(01:26):
director of God Conversations, aministry that equips you to
recognise and respond to God's voice.
It is so great to have you on the show today.
Welcome, particularly those who are new and you've chosen a
wonderful episode to listen to. Honestly, this is one of my
favourites of late and I feel sohonoured to have this guest on
(01:49):
our show. In this show we talk about the
revelatory work of the Holy Spirit among the poor with one
of the most inspiring and the most challenging people I've
met. This man and his wife truly
lives out the heart of Jesus andexperiences the work of the
Spirit first hand. Let me tell you a little bit
(02:09):
about him. After living several years
working in sustainable family inHonduras and then studying
theology in France, he and his wife now lead a church community
known as Tierra Nueva, which means New Earth in Washington
state. And here they come alongside
immigrants, St people, addicts and prisoners to demonstrate the
(02:31):
love of Jesus in practical and profound ways.
It's a privilege to welcome to the show Bob Ekblad.
Bob, so great to have you here on the God Conversations
podcast. Welcome.
Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here.
We met at the New Line conference a couple of weeks ago
(02:52):
and I was so struck by your story.
I thought we have to have him asa guest on our podcast.
We've never had anyone talk about this topic before, so it's
such a privilege to have you allthe way from Washington State.
Is that right? I don't know my USP very well.
So that's right at the top, isn't it?
Yes. Where it's cold right now while
(03:14):
we're all stinking hot. And winter up here.
Yeah. So maybe for our audience, Bob,
they may not know you and your work with Gracie, perhaps give
us a little bit of the Bob and Gracie story.
How did you get to be doing? I know this is a a long
question, but how did you forgetto do get to be doing what
(03:37):
you're doing now? Back in 19, 79 actually, I
travelled through Europe and theMiddle East and I met a Cuban
Jewish guy who was on the keyboards with me and he was an
(03:58):
atheist and we started a friendship.
I was just a 20. I turned 21 right on this
keyboard. So he, his father had been one
of Shikamaru's comandantes and in the Cuban Revolution, and he
was just so socially engaged, you know, atheist militants,
sort of Jewish guy. And we started this conversation
(04:20):
and it was kind of, he was mocking me for reading the
Bible. And, and I challenged him
because he'd never read the Bible.
He'd never read the Torah, you know, the first five books of
the Hebrew Bible on and And so Isaid, well, you're mocking me,
but you haven't even read scripture for yourself.
Why don't we read it together? And I'm willing to abandon this
(04:43):
if it's not true, but you shouldtry to at least open yourself.
And so we began reading the Scriptures together and I kind
of, I discovered my vocation really reading the Bible with
people that were not yet believing.
And I also was initiated into sort of a, a journey of learning
about what the United States haddone throughout Latin America
(05:07):
and around the world in terms ofstanding with dictatorships and
being about our economic interests and often being on the
side of, you know, of, of oppressors.
And anyway, so I got that led meinto reading a lot of Latin
American liberation theology. And that led to a travel, a trip
(05:28):
through Central America where I wanted to expose myself, I
guess, to poverty and, and to, you know, to a place close to
our own, our own country. You know, the southern border is
of the United States with Mexicoand then Central America.
And it was on this trip that my wife, I actually, we became, we
(05:50):
just had to get married. And so we started our marriage
in, you know, like a week after,you know, our wedding grew down
in Honduras and that led to us deciding to to move down there.
And we were in the working with impoverished peasants in Central
America for all through the 1980s.
(06:12):
And that's when we began really reading the Bible with
communities of some illiterate, illiterate people and, and felt
the calling to actually pastor people, I guess, and to study
theology. And these are people who weren't
part of a church. There were farmers.
Is that right? Yeah, they were small, like
(06:35):
small farmers, like peasants, campesinos, these four people
who mostly were excluded from the church for various reasons.
So our Bible studies took place under, under mango trees and out
in cornfields and in homes. And, and it was like that kind
of led us to realise we, we really wanted more training.
(06:56):
And also we were inspired by some of the Latin American
liberation theologians, especially some of the Jesuits
who had a commitment to, to education, but also making that
education, you know, like bringing it into language that
was, that was the normal person's language.
And so anyway, we, we moved to France to study theology and
(07:20):
then felt called back to America.
And 28 years ago we started a version of Geneva in Washington
state. So we've we've been working with
immigrant workers and people in our prison system, gaol system
here for since 1994. And yeah, that's a little bit of
(07:42):
our background. So right now we have a church
that is set up for people comingout of prison, out of addiction,
out of off the streets. And it's pretty much all people
like that. Lot of natives, Native
Americans, and you know, MexicanAmericans and white folks as
well. Yeah.
(08:03):
Can we circle back for a moment to your work in, was it
Guatemala? Is that right amongst those
farming communities? You were reading the Bible with
them, is that, how did, how did that happen?
Tell us about a little bit wherethat interest developed for
them. We were mainly teaching
sustainable farming, but we didn't want to impose any kind
(08:24):
of anything on people. We, we were really trying to
avoid the sort of the missionarymindset of coming in with the
knowledge and, you know, and, and we didn't want to impose
anything on anybody. So we, we came in, it was all
about sustainable farming. But then after a couple of
years, we got asked by the people to lead them in a Bible
(08:47):
study. Somehow they knew that we were,
that we were up into reading scripture on our farm.
We, we had a Bible study every night, which is our team of four
of us and you know, small town, small village, you know, like
everyone, I guess finds out everything they say knew that.
And there was a known murderer who had shown up at the at one
(09:09):
of our farming gatherings. And so that was the key, was the
catalyst for people saying, hey,a lot of us are pretty tough and
some of us are violent and we wedon't put God first, but we
notice you put God first. Could we begin each of our
farming weekly farming courses with Bible study?
So I was like, oh, wow, OK, well, I, I didn't, I'd never
(09:34):
really done that. And so anyway, it was kind of
exciting and also scary because you pull out a Bible in that
setting and people are they looklike, you know, stray sort of
city dogs that they're used to being kicked that kind of sleek
off, you know, lurk away and ourour fear, fearful of of of being
(09:55):
beaten, you know, by the Bible. And because that's how the Bible
has been used in a lot of settings by, you know, a very
moralistic, you know, like you got to do this that the other
thing to be saved. Otherwise you're going to go to
hell and you know, and identifying all kinds of
behaviours that our Christian behaviours and versus ones that
(10:16):
are behaviours that would get you condemned by by God.
Yeah. You mentioned that these were
people who have been rejected bythe church.
How? Why was that, do you think?
Is that part of the the picture that you're saying?
Yeah, one of the issues was mostpeople felt like they believed
that you had to be married to be, to be saved in the Catholic
(10:39):
Church, their view of the sacrament of marriage.
And then evangelicals, charismatics would, would they
embrace that same approach? Like, so 90% percent of the
people probably weren't married because they felt shame about
having a wedding when they had no money and they were poor
because they were too poor. And so there was this common law
(11:00):
sort of marriage that most of the people and so the Catholic
Church and the evangelicals would say they were living in
fornication, even though they have seven or eight kids,
oftentimes they have been together for years.
And that would be that's one thing.
And then just alcoholism, domestic violence, there was a
lot of physical violence, you know, machete fights, you know,
(11:21):
when when people feel like there's no hope before God,
They've been excluded in their marginalised.
They're part of the lowest class.
A lot of people just abandon allhope and they just throw
themselves into, you know, a life of, of drinking and, you
know, violence or whatever. And that that's something we saw
in, you know, we were encountering quite a bit.
(11:45):
I find it super interesting thatyour entry point was just
helping people in farming and then they expressed interest in
knowing about God. I I find that fascinating
because it's a very holistic, very grassroots way of what
building the Kingdom in that area.
Yeah. And I think one of them, the
(12:06):
things that we were doing, we wereally did have a commitment to
reading Scripture. Like we were inspired by the
liberation theology movement because they were all about, you
know, the whole base community movement that was launched, you
know, back in the late 60s or inthe 70s, eighties that swept
through Latin America was about contextual Bible study.
(12:27):
And so with our team we had, we had a 53 year old peasant guy.
He seemed like he was ancient back then for us, but you know,
he was called himself an atheistand he had a third grade
education and, you know, and he,but yet he agreed to be part of
this Bible study that we did. I mean, when I say Bible study,
(12:49):
we were like around a table witha with like a Coleman Lantern or
a or a candle, you know, at night, all kinds of frogs and
crickets all around us. And we would read a text and it
just and then talk about it, right, And try to engage with,
you know, with the gospel story usually.
(13:11):
And so this man, Fernando, he, he would sit there with his arms
crossed and, and kind of look down and, you know, we try to
get him to respond. He'd say I don't know, you know,
you don't know, say I don't know.
But then we watched him begin towarm to some of the messages and
engage with us. And in a way, he was like our
(13:32):
first, you know, sort of person we read with who taught us so
much about how to actually articulate a liberating message
or what it was that was liberating about the message
that would warm his heart. And as he became warmed to the
gospel and became a believer, actually that was like the that,
(13:57):
that's the door that opened to the whole community of, of
people that were like him. Amazing.
Yeah, I think so. As a white, middle class
educated woman reading the Bible, I, I, I would see
different things to what a man such as this man would see as he
reads Scripture. That's that's basically what
(14:19):
you're saying, isn't it? What?
What? What was it about the gospel
that warmed his heart the most? I think that Jesus went out and
was in the countryside, like walking along the Sea of
Galilee, out in on the mountains, teaching in the open
(14:42):
air. And he gave examples from
farming, you know, the sower that went out to sow He, he
wasn't about building an institution and, and
establishing like something thatwas like an organisation that,
that would represent, say what, say what the Catholic Church or
(15:03):
evangelical churches look like. This was someone who just went
from place to place. And so he was at, he was someone
you could identify with. And he he took the side of the
outcast. You know, he was called a friend
of tax collectors and senators. And I think that just like a
simple story, like the calling of the fisherman is one that I
(15:26):
think I know is going to warm people's hearts, you know,
because Jesus is taking the initiative.
He's walking along the Sea of Galilee.
He sees the fisherman casting the Nets into the sea.
What are they looking for? Are they looking for fish?
So they're not looking for Jesus.
They're not looking for God. Are they reading their Bibles?
Like where are they in the church?
(15:48):
Are they praying? Are they crossing themselves,
ready to take the Eucharist? I mean, where are they?
OK, they're they're out on the Sea of Galilee.
And so Jesus sees them and then he calls them.
Follow me. OK.
Well, does he tell them they have to stop smoking and
drinking? You know, like carrying around a
sharp machete ready for a fight?Does he tell him that they have
(16:10):
to get married? Does he?
What does he say they have to do?
Right. And, well, there's nothing that
he says they have to do. So what did they do?
Well, they looked their Nets. Well, did he tell them to leave
their Nets? No, he didn't tell him to leave
their Nets. Well, do you guys have any Nets?
No, we don't have any Nets. Wow.
So you wouldn't, you wouldn't even be able to live in that.
(16:31):
No, we wouldn't be able to live our Nets.
That kind of stuff like just like Jesus coming and just
offering like to like recruiting.
He's recruiting people to join him.
And then what do they do? Will they go?
And they have crowds of people who bring all their lame and all
their blind and deaf and, and demonised and he heals them all.
And like, how would you like to do that?
(16:52):
How would you like to see someone doing that?
Do we have people like that in our community that would benefit
from, from Jesus And, and wow, he's, he's called the Son of God
and he's described as the one who reveals God.
What if God looked like Jesus? What would God be like?
Well, he goes to where we are, where we're not even looking for
(17:14):
God, where we're looking for money.
But where would that be here? Well, here we are in the
cornfield right now. That kind of thing, right?
That would be the message that would really get people, like,
excited. Very grassroots, isn't it it's
where you're at it's very it's where people are at it's it's
profound, isn't it and and Bob you're you're doing similar
(17:36):
things now back in the US working with the poor as well.
We are. We're all about hearing God's
voice in the midst of our lives.So thinking back and it's again
another big question, what aboutthe Holy Spirit?
What role has the Holy Spirit played in your ministry?
Hearing God's voice, What does that meant for you?
(18:00):
Yes, So in kind of a long ways into our life as followers of
Jesus, we, we became initiated, I guess into I guess the
ministry of the Holy Spirit is what I'd say.
We, we went to, we were very reluctant to have anything to do
with any, anything charismatic because of a lot of bad
(18:23):
experiences and the hype that weoften saw associated with it and
just different things. But we ended up feeling we
needed to see more of we needed something more that because the
people we were serving were so challenging, especially in North
America with all the drug addiction and, and gang, gang
(18:44):
violence and drive by shootings and people recidivism, you know,
people relapsing in reoffending.And so we went to a place where
it was a charismatic conference and there was an opportunity to
respond to receive prayer, to kind of step into the
empowerment of the Spirit. And a young British guy was
(19:07):
praying for my line of people that I was standing outstanding
the radio receive prayer very reluctant praying that Jesus
prayer that Jesus would protect you from any kind of germ of
Christian nationalism or moralism or right wing right
wing edness. When you told that story, you're
praying protection before you receiving prayer.
(19:30):
Yeah, protection from Jesus, from from anything not clean
that was called Holy Spirit thatthey were carrying, you know, So
I think I had a good reason to be wary.
But anyway, this guy, young guy came down my line of people and
he got to me and he he prophesied in a way that I'd
(19:50):
never experienced anything even close.
He he's just a young British guy, probably in his early 20s.
And he said, I see you in a circle of of men.
In red uniforms, sitting on blueplastic chairs.
And I, I think they're prisoners.
And I, and I was like, whoa, that's, that's what I've been
doing the last 10 years every twice a week.
(20:13):
You know, I didn't tell him that, but in my heart, I was
just acknowledging. Yeah, OK.
And he says, and I hear the father saying, I love how you
love my prisoners. And my experience with
charismatics was always them telling me that I that I wasn't
doing something. I wasn't speaking in tongues.
I wasn't, you know, I wasn't empowered by the Holy Spirit.
(20:37):
I wasn't healing people. I wasn't, wasn't, wasn't.
And here's someone saying, you know, like giving me an
affirming word that was at the core of my calling.
And, and that's why I was there is because I, I, I really love
the people I was working with and wanted to open myself to
receiving more if it would help them.
And so anyway, then the guy goeson and he says, and I hear the
(21:00):
Father saying, I'm going to giveyou fresh revelation from the
Bible that will make your heart and the people's hearts burn.
And that was my favourite scripture.
I may have the mash Rd and and what I would long for probably
more than almost anything. So this guy was just nailing it
like and I was so touched. I I just was completely like
(21:23):
Mike. My defences went down and then
he said, and I hear now the father saying, I'm going to give
you an anointing for healing so that your words will be
confirmed by the signs that follow.
And when he said that I couldn'tstand up anymore, I, I was
overcome by the spirit and I felt, and I had this vision of
(21:44):
like blue, blue flames coming off my hands.
And my hands were just like, they felt like they were on
fire. And I was just like, Oh no, you
know, what have I got myself into, right?
And and that that was just the beginning of kind of this, you
know, I received a lot of prayerat that, at that conference and
(22:06):
kind of came back knowing that that couldn't go back to my old.
I didn't want to go back to the old, but I didn't know what what
the new was going to look like at all.
I was, you know, pretty afraid that now I'd become charismatic
and Oh no, what's that going to?Mean you've become one of us.
(22:26):
But am I gonna have to pray for people?
And what if nothing happens whenI pray for them and all those
kind of things, right? Just want to be discreet and
then feeling like now if I'm carrying something like what do
I do with it? And not wanting to be associated
with power and authority but then feeling like OK well then
how can I carry the authority ofJesus if I don't, If I'm anti
(22:48):
authority? MMM.
Oh, that's a that's a great question.
We are talking with Bob Ekblad who works with his wife Gracie
at Tierra Nueva. How do I say Tierra?
Tierra Nueva Tierra. Nueva Yeah, that's South
American. Beautiful accent right over in
(23:08):
Washington state here on the podcast.
We'll be back in. Did you know that dreams and
visions are the most common way God spoke in biblical history?
And God still speaks in this powerful and creative way today.
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So how do we know when it is? And how do we understand the
strange scenes that appear in our dreams?
(23:30):
The globally renowned God DreamsOnline course answers these
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(23:53):
slash courses We've been chatting with Bob Ekblad and
Bob, you've just shared an incredible God conversation that
took place in relation to your ministry with the poor.
So can you tell us what happenedafterwards?
You've had this incredible experience.
(24:14):
God's spoken to you. He's going to give you a healing
anointing. What did that mean for your
ministry after that? You know, I in the gaols where
I, I, I work, I had an experience like a month after
that where this big neo Nazi white guy was, he came in with a
(24:35):
couple of other white guys and there were a bunch of gang,
Latino gang members that were there.
And, and I, I opened up the Bible study by saying, look, you
guys, I don't want to just impose my little whatever my
agenda is on you. What do you want to talk about?
And the white neo Nazi guy said I I'm an effing racist and I
want to F and learn along, learnto get along with the Mexicans.
(24:59):
And I was like, whoa, OK, well, OK, well, so we looked at a
Bible study. We did, I think Luke 15, you
know, Jesus eating with tax collectors and sinners and and
we we looked at that. That was the one that I had
chosen at the end of the Bible study.
I said, how should we respond tothis?
(25:20):
You know, it was about the lost sheep and Jesus leaving the 99
going after the one and you know, but it was also about, you
know, how that's the heart of God that Jesus wanted to
transmit to the Pharisees who were judging him for eating with
tax collectors and sinners. That's where it worked with them
for the racism or the the othering of someone, you know,
like rather than like pursuing them in love.
(25:43):
So I said, how should we respondto this?
And this guy, Zach said. I think we should pray for
Fabiano, that God would heal hiseffluent liver.
And there's this guy Fabiano, who's a really humble but huge,
like, Latino gangster. And he said, he said I am.
(26:04):
I asked him if he had a liver problem and he had cirrhosis of
the liver and would have been crying every night in his cell
and people could hear him. He didn't tell me that he was
keeping crying, but I learned that afterwards.
And I said, well, can we pray for your liver?
And then he said, I guess. And then I said, well, what
about you, Zach? I knew Zach had liver failure
(26:25):
from heroin use and his hands were like swollen twice their
normal size. And, and I said, why don't we
just pray for you too? And he goes, no, you know, I'm
just a selfish guy. And I, I think we should just
pray for Fabiano. Like, there's just way too much
about me in my life. I just think I want to think
about him. And I said, well, we can pray
for you too. And he goes, OK, whatever.
(26:47):
So I, I just very tentatively laid my hands on both of them,
them where their livers were figure their livers probably
were more or less. And we prayed.
And then within a week, next week, I came in and heard that
there was no no pain and no symptoms of liver problems.
(27:07):
It just left right from that point.
But you know, getting prophetic impressions was something that I
I was really struggling. Like, I just didn't know how
that guy, the young Brit in Toronto had perceived me to be
in a circle of men, red uniforms.
(27:27):
Like, how is it that he was ableto perceive that and get that
revelation so clearly? It was so clear and so personal,
so related to me. I, you know, I was, I was kind
of on a quest to understand prophecy, I guess, but I was not
hearing or getting any impressions.
And so one day we had this team from a British guy and a guy
(27:50):
from Toronto, they came to teachon hearing the voice of God.
And on the last day, I offered for them to go to the gaol with
me and we went in and at the endof my Bible study, they said, do
you mind if we share some impressions that we're getting?
And they named like 15 conditions.
And everyone people were saying,yeah, that's me.
(28:11):
You know, someone would say he would.
One of them say you, you had it,you were under your car and Jack
tipped over in the car, fell on your chest and you've got pain
in your sternum since three years ago.
Just really specific impressionslike that.
And. And so there were like 15 things
that they named and they were all within the group of about 20
(28:33):
people. We prayed for them and they were
all healed and I just thought, wow, what in the world?
That is crazy. I didn't get a single
impression, but these two guys, these two guys were just like so
spot on. And that challenged me and made
me thirsty and, you know, not just because I thought I could
(28:58):
see how impacted these inmates were who I who I knew, you know,
from years of being in there. And so I began to pursue more of
the gift, you know, the, I guessprophecy.
And then I asked somebody, why do you think I I'm not able to
hear when I'm in a group? I could, I could hear when I was
(29:18):
one on one with people, like I would often pray with people
even before I had that experience with the Holy Spirit.
People would cry when I was praying for them.
And, and I learned later that that was because I was getting
prophetic impressions as I prayed without knowing it.
And because that's probably one of the best ways to hear God's
voices when we're praying because we're connecting in with
(29:41):
God and whether we're charismatic or not, Like when
you're praying, you're, you're connecting with God.
And so and God, prayer is 2 way communication, right?
Here's the expert. In yes, apparently.
Someone said did you ever judge people that were exercising
public prophecy? Because if you did, that could
(30:01):
be the what's behind you not getting any prophetic
impressions when you're in public settings.
And so right away I thought of like 3 or 4 examples, like 1
from my childhood where a prophetic person was naming men
in a room, a Christian businessman's association
meeting where he was pointing tomen who were having affairs.
(30:23):
And as a young boy, I saw that Iwas with my dad and I felt, I
felt all their shame. And I remember saying I'll never
have anything to do with this. And so I I made a vow that I
would never have anything to do with that.
And so when I forgave that person and I just said, OK, it
was wrong the way he exercised that gift, but I dropped my
(30:45):
charges against him. And I turn away from my own vow
that I'll never be, that I'll never have anything to do with
this. That opened up, that opened me
up. And I and I began to after that,
notice that God was speaking to me in public when I was with
groups of people. Interesting to breakthrough some
of those misconceived ideas, don't we?
(31:07):
Before we can be open to what the spirit is doing and saying.
That's a that's a fascinating story, Bob.
You know, as I was preparing forthis podcast, I was reflecting
on actually after even hearing you speak at Newline a couple of
weeks ago, I remembered I've been challenged that as
(31:30):
Christians that Jesus, to have the heart of Jesus means to have
a heart for the poor. And that when the Spirit speaks
as the continuing voice of Jesus, then it would be expected
that God will lead us into ministering to the poor.
And I keep asking God myself, you know, who am I poor?
Who are the people in my life that I'm called to have the
(31:52):
heart of Jesus towards? How has God taught you about his
heart for the poor? How is hearing the Spirit moving
in the Spirit, Experiencing the Spirit connected or opened up
your heart in new ways towards God's heart?
(32:13):
Um, I mean, I think I had that heart and and it was I think
more I have the Holy Spirit has turned me into to people's a lot
(32:33):
of their root wounds have where they began to feel oppressed and
excluded. You know, that maybe led them in
down a bad Rd is from I guess myheart has, you know, has been
touched by the way that God has spoken to me about people when I
when I've gotten when I've heardGod's voice or, you know, gotten
(32:56):
prophetic oppression impressionsabout people.
So I can give some examples of that if you'd like.
Yeah, that'd be great. Like I came into the gaol one
time and I was in the mental health pod of the gaol where it
was all people who have been diagnosed bipolar or psychotic
(33:17):
or delusional or whatever. And I came in and I there were
some men that gathered at a table for the Bible study.
And I looked at this one guy andimmediately this this impression
came to me. Someone, that guy's been shot
and he's in pain. And so I sat down and I, I
(33:38):
looked at it around everybody, like four guys and I said, has
anyone by any chance been shot And you're still in pain?
And the guy who I got his showedme, said yes, you know me and,
and he pointed to his his left shoulder.
I said, well, what happened? He goes, I was, I was shot and
(34:00):
the bullet went through my left shoulder, broke my collarbone
and then lodged in my neck against my carotid artery.
He didn't say the carotid artery, but against an artery
and and I've been and I said, well, so you're in pain.
He goes, yeah, I mean my left side is almost all paralysed and
I'm in pain all the time and he's just 20 year old guy, gang
(34:23):
member and he was in for second degree murder.
So he was looking at it very long prison sentence.
And I said, well, I wonder whether that was could have
been, you know, God that wanted,you know, put that into my mind
that there was someone struggling, suffering from a
gunshot, wounded in order for usto possibly pray for you, you
(34:47):
know, would you be willing to receive prayer?
And he said, look, I'm, I don't believe in God.
And I said that's OK. Um, you don't have to believe in
God. Um, we can still pray for you.
Um, I can still pray for you. And he goes, OK, whatever.
(35:08):
So I went around and laid hands on his shoulder, prayed for him
right away. All the paralysis left his left
side, OK, And he was so touched and just kind of shocked And so
like for me that God's heart forthe, for the not just the poor,
but the violent offender, right?That God wouldn't even require
(35:32):
faith or a change of life or or really anything.
It was like God making me a confidant of his tenderness, of
his love, and bringing me into his love.
Like recruiting me to express something that would show how
(35:52):
much you loved this person who'dmurdered someone else, right?
So then I came back a week later, and the guy was very
stunned by it, right? And but he still had all this
pain in his neck and he showed me with his hand where the
bullet was still lodged and he had neck pain.
It's like prayed for him about that and all the pain left and
(36:16):
it was just so generous of God to just heal this guy.
Then he got the fight the next day, a really bad fight, and he
was thrown in solitary confinement for a whole month.
And while he was in solitary confinement, he read through a
lot of the parts of the Bible and became a a believer.
And when I saw him after he got out, he was, you know, he was
(36:38):
calling himself a follower of Jesus.
Incredible, amazing and I think does that.
Perhaps you know, you earlier said your conundrum with coming
into the power of the Holy Spirit, that you had avoided
exercising power over people because that has been a legacy
in many places where the poor orthe marginalised have felt like
(37:00):
people have exercised power overthem.
How did you? Perhaps that's a way of
reconciling those two issues, that when the Spirit speaks to
move in power, it's from a placeof love and compassion.
Would that be a way that you've reconciled it or?
Oh yeah, definitely compassion. Just like very strong, you know,
(37:30):
preemptive sort of love that is that doesn't require a response,
but that elicits a response justbecause it's so it's so
startling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So perhaps responding to the Holy Spirit for us is about
(37:51):
allowing God to expand our hearts for other people.
Yeah, even aside from the miracles, even aside from the
exercising of power or the declaring of the good news
begins with allowing the Spirit to break our hearts for people.
Oh yeah. And you know, that's happened,
(38:13):
you know, when you, I guess, when you decide to risk, um,
well, putting yourself in a place where you feel, I guess
lead to, to go, you know, through however you, you're led,
you know, like I've been in lotsof settings where, you know, for
(38:33):
me, they become, you know, if you, if you're faithful in what
God gives you to do, often that leads to new opportunities to
like, you know, it's like God will tap you to do more.
And so it's not as big of a leapfor you to do the next thing
(38:54):
because you've already kind of you're on a journey.
Yes. And, um, and so, you know, the
one who's faithful in in little will be, will be given more that
that idea. Yeah, I think really works when
it comes to healing and prophecyand, you know, just missional
engagements. It's what I've seen.
Yeah. And more doesn't always mean
bigger, and a lot of times it means gnarlier.
(39:19):
Yes, it does mean earlier, sort of bloodier, more difficult,
challenging, like dealing with people that are maybe less
desirable than maybe you needed to be coached and loved and you
needed to witness God's love so that you could be converted to
His heart. Hmm, Well, thank you, Bob, when
(39:43):
what a remarkable story. And we just say thankful for
your example and your leadershipin the body of Christ showing us
what it means to be on that edgeand those Narli places because
you and Gracie are in those places all the time.
So you have an authority to teach us the heart of Jesus, I
think, and to encourage us to move into that space.
(40:04):
Keep listening to the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit that leads us to share the gospel with the good
news, with the poor and set the captive free and sight for the
blind. That beautiful Commission that
Jesus gave. So thank you again, Bob.
Is there anything we can pray for specifically if your
ministry at the moment? You know, I think probably just
(40:29):
prayer that we would, you know, we would be, we would be
faithful and courageous. You know, like right now we're
doing a lot of work on the streets, going out and just
hanging with, you know, people that are at the addicts who are
fentanyl consuming fentanyl, smoking it.
And there's been a lot of overdose deaths in our region
(40:49):
and people, you know, just knowing, I guess being in that
place where we're where we, where our hearts are tender and
getting more tender and not becoming the number part, you
know, I mean, I don't really seethat as much of A threat.
It's, it's more having the courage sometimes to press in
(41:14):
to, to really hear what God's saying to us about how to, how
to operate in some of those settings, because we'd like to
see people, Tom, find their way out of that, you know, out of
that very dangerous cycle of addiction that's leading to so
many overdose deaths. Yeah.
(41:36):
And we're, you know, we need sort of a new, I don't know,
something more than what we, what we're experiencing.
That's certainly something that we we can pray for, and I just
encourage our listeners to do that even now as we finish up,
say a prayer for Bob and Gracie.If you want to know more about
their incredible work, jump on the show notes for this episode
(41:59):
and you can find them there. Thank you again, Bob, for your
time and your wisdom and your grace in what you do.
It's been such a pleasure to have you on board.
Thanks for listening to God Conversations with Tanya Harris.
Don't miss the next episode by subscribing to the show on your
favourite podcast app. And remember, the Holy Spirit
was given so we could all hear God's voice.
(42:22):
It was never meant to be a one way conversation.
God Conversations with Tanya Harris.
Let me ask you that question. What does God tell?
Thunder. Lightning.
Mother Teresa? Someone asked.
Her when it's got to. Speak to you and she said
whenever he wants so essentiallythis is the Bible is a
collection of God conversations if you like I had a vision of a
car accident and I'm sitting on the couch thinking why have I
(00:21):
just seen this how? Could I know if God was speaking
to you? And how could I know that that
dream or that thought was actually just me thinking about,
I have said the bad? Pizza Jesus said we'd recognise
his voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation. Jesus was known for the way he
(00:42):
interacted with those on the margins of society, the despised
tax collectors, the leopards no one would touch, the cripples
and the prostitutes. His teaching and interactions
constantly reflected God's heartfor those who'd been forgotten,
left behind and oppressed. So for those who are hearing
(01:02):
this spirit today as Jesus's continuing voice, we shouldn't
be surprised that we find ourselves in similar places.
What does hearing God's voice among the poor look like in our
world today? Hi and welcome to the God
Conversations podcast. My name is Tanya Harris, and I'm
a pastor, practical theologian, author, and the founding
(01:26):
director of God Conversations, aministry that equips you to
recognise and respond to God's voice.
It is so great to have you on the show today.
Welcome, particularly those who are new and you've chosen a
wonderful episode to listen to. Honestly, this is one of my
favourites of late and I feel sohonoured to have this guest on
(01:49):
our show. In this show we talk about the
revelatory work of the Holy Spirit among the poor with one
of the most inspiring and the most challenging people I've
met. This man and his wife truly
lives out the heart of Jesus andexperiences the work of the
Spirit first hand. Let me tell you a little bit
(02:09):
about him. After living several years
working in sustainable family inHonduras and then studying
theology in France, he and his wife now lead a church community
known as Tierra Nueva, which means New Earth in Washington
state. And here they come alongside
immigrants, St people, addicts and prisoners to demonstrate the
(02:31):
love of Jesus in practical and profound ways.
It's a privilege to welcome to the show Bob Ekblad.
Bob, so great to have you here on the God Conversations
podcast. Welcome.
Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here.
We met at the New Line conference a couple of weeks ago
(02:52):
and I was so struck by your story.
I thought we have to have him asa guest on our podcast.
We've never had anyone talk about this topic before, so it's
such a privilege to have you allthe way from Washington State.
Is that right? I don't know my USP very well.
So that's right at the top, isn't it?
Yes. Where it's cold right now while
(03:14):
we're all stinking hot. And winter up here.
Yeah. So maybe for our audience, Bob,
they may not know you and your work with Gracie, perhaps give
us a little bit of the Bob and Gracie story.
How did you get to be doing? I know this is a a long
question, but how did you forgetto do get to be doing what
(03:37):
you're doing now? Back in 19, 79 actually, I
travelled through Europe and theMiddle East and I met a Cuban
Jewish guy who was on the keyboards with me and he was an
(03:58):
atheist and we started a friendship.
I was just a 20. I turned 21 right on this
keyboard. So he, his father had been one
of Shikamaru's comandantes and in the Cuban Revolution, and he
was just so socially engaged, you know, atheist militants,
sort of Jewish guy. And we started this conversation
(04:20):
and it was kind of, he was mocking me for reading the
Bible. And, and I challenged him
because he'd never read the Bible.
He'd never read the Torah, you know, the first five books of
the Hebrew Bible on and And so Isaid, well, you're mocking me,
but you haven't even read scripture for yourself.
Why don't we read it together? And I'm willing to abandon this
(04:43):
if it's not true, but you shouldtry to at least open yourself.
And so we began reading the Scriptures together and I kind
of, I discovered my vocation really reading the Bible with
people that were not yet believing.
And I also was initiated into sort of a, a journey of learning
about what the United States haddone throughout Latin America
(05:07):
and around the world in terms ofstanding with dictatorships and
being about our economic interests and often being on the
side of, you know, of, of oppressors.
And anyway, so I got that led meinto reading a lot of Latin
American liberation theology. And that led to a travel, a trip
(05:28):
through Central America where I wanted to expose myself, I
guess, to poverty and, and to, you know, to a place close to
our own, our own country. You know, the southern border is
of the United States with Mexicoand then Central America.
And it was on this trip that my wife, I actually, we became, we
(05:50):
just had to get married. And so we started our marriage
in, you know, like a week after,you know, our wedding grew down
in Honduras and that led to us deciding to to move down there.
And we were in the working with impoverished peasants in Central
America for all through the 1980s.
(06:12):
And that's when we began really reading the Bible with
communities of some illiterate, illiterate people and, and felt
the calling to actually pastor people, I guess, and to study
theology. And these are people who weren't
part of a church. There were farmers.
Is that right? Yeah, they were small, like
(06:35):
small farmers, like peasants, campesinos, these four people
who mostly were excluded from the church for various reasons.
So our Bible studies took place under, under mango trees and out
in cornfields and in homes. And, and it was like that kind
of led us to realise we, we really wanted more training.
(06:56):
And also we were inspired by some of the Latin American
liberation theologians, especially some of the Jesuits
who had a commitment to, to education, but also making that
education, you know, like bringing it into language that
was, that was the normal person's language.
And so anyway, we, we moved to France to study theology and
(07:20):
then felt called back to America.
And 28 years ago we started a version of Geneva in Washington
state. So we've we've been working with
immigrant workers and people in our prison system, gaol system
here for since 1994. And yeah, that's a little bit of
(07:42):
our background. So right now we have a church
that is set up for people comingout of prison, out of addiction,
out of off the streets. And it's pretty much all people
like that. Lot of natives, Native
Americans, and you know, MexicanAmericans and white folks as
well. Yeah.
(08:03):
Can we circle back for a moment to your work in, was it
Guatemala? Is that right amongst those
farming communities? You were reading the Bible with
them, is that, how did, how did that happen?
Tell us about a little bit wherethat interest developed for
them. We were mainly teaching
sustainable farming, but we didn't want to impose any kind
(08:24):
of anything on people. We, we were really trying to
avoid the sort of the missionarymindset of coming in with the
knowledge and, you know, and, and we didn't want to impose
anything on anybody. So we, we came in, it was all
about sustainable farming. But then after a couple of
years, we got asked by the people to lead them in a Bible
(08:47):
study. Somehow they knew that we were,
that we were up into reading scripture on our farm.
We, we had a Bible study every night, which is our team of four
of us and you know, small town, small village, you know, like
everyone, I guess finds out everything they say knew that.
And there was a known murderer who had shown up at the at one
(09:09):
of our farming gatherings. And so that was the key, was the
catalyst for people saying, hey,a lot of us are pretty tough and
some of us are violent and we wedon't put God first, but we
notice you put God first. Could we begin each of our
farming weekly farming courses with Bible study?
So I was like, oh, wow, OK, well, I, I didn't, I'd never
(09:34):
really done that. And so anyway, it was kind of
exciting and also scary because you pull out a Bible in that
setting and people are they looklike, you know, stray sort of
city dogs that they're used to being kicked that kind of sleek
off, you know, lurk away and ourour fear, fearful of of of being
(09:55):
beaten, you know, by the Bible. And because that's how the Bible
has been used in a lot of settings by, you know, a very
moralistic, you know, like you got to do this that the other
thing to be saved. Otherwise you're going to go to
hell and you know, and identifying all kinds of
behaviours that our Christian behaviours and versus ones that
(10:16):
are behaviours that would get you condemned by by God.
Yeah. You mentioned that these were
people who have been rejected bythe church.
How? Why was that, do you think?
Is that part of the the picture that you're saying?
Yeah, one of the issues was mostpeople felt like they believed
that you had to be married to be, to be saved in the Catholic
(10:39):
Church, their view of the sacrament of marriage.
And then evangelicals, charismatics would, would they
embrace that same approach? Like, so 90% percent of the
people probably weren't married because they felt shame about
having a wedding when they had no money and they were poor
because they were too poor. And so there was this common law
(11:00):
sort of marriage that most of the people and so the Catholic
Church and the evangelicals would say they were living in
fornication, even though they have seven or eight kids,
oftentimes they have been together for years.
And that would be that's one thing.
And then just alcoholism, domestic violence, there was a
lot of physical violence, you know, machete fights, you know,
(11:21):
when when people feel like there's no hope before God,
They've been excluded in their marginalised.
They're part of the lowest class.
A lot of people just abandon allhope and they just throw
themselves into, you know, a life of, of drinking and, you
know, violence or whatever. And that that's something we saw
in, you know, we were encountering quite a bit.
(11:45):
I find it super interesting thatyour entry point was just
helping people in farming and then they expressed interest in
knowing about God. I I find that fascinating
because it's a very holistic, very grassroots way of what
building the Kingdom in that area.
Yeah. And I think one of them, the
(12:06):
things that we were doing, we wereally did have a commitment to
reading Scripture. Like we were inspired by the
liberation theology movement because they were all about, you
know, the whole base community movement that was launched, you
know, back in the late 60s or inthe 70s, eighties that swept
through Latin America was about contextual Bible study.
(12:27):
And so with our team we had, we had a 53 year old peasant guy.
He seemed like he was ancient back then for us, but you know,
he was called himself an atheistand he had a third grade
education and, you know, and he,but yet he agreed to be part of
this Bible study that we did. I mean, when I say Bible study,
(12:49):
we were like around a table witha with like a Coleman Lantern or
a or a candle, you know, at night, all kinds of frogs and
crickets all around us. And we would read a text and it
just and then talk about it, right, And try to engage with,
you know, with the gospel story usually.
(13:11):
And so this man, Fernando, he, he would sit there with his arms
crossed and, and kind of look down and, you know, we try to
get him to respond. He'd say I don't know, you know,
you don't know, say I don't know.
But then we watched him begin towarm to some of the messages and
engage with us. And in a way, he was like our
(13:32):
first, you know, sort of person we read with who taught us so
much about how to actually articulate a liberating message
or what it was that was liberating about the message
that would warm his heart. And as he became warmed to the
gospel and became a believer, actually that was like the that,
(13:57):
that's the door that opened to the whole community of, of
people that were like him. Amazing.
Yeah, I think so. As a white, middle class
educated woman reading the Bible, I, I, I would see
different things to what a man such as this man would see as he
reads Scripture. That's that's basically what
(14:19):
you're saying, isn't it? What?
What? What was it about the gospel
that warmed his heart the most? I think that Jesus went out and
was in the countryside, like walking along the Sea of
Galilee, out in on the mountains, teaching in the open
(14:42):
air. And he gave examples from
farming, you know, the sower that went out to sow He, he
wasn't about building an institution and, and
establishing like something thatwas like an organisation that,
that would represent, say what, say what the Catholic Church or
(15:03):
evangelical churches look like. This was someone who just went
from place to place. And so he was at, he was someone
you could identify with. And he he took the side of the
outcast. You know, he was called a friend
of tax collectors and senators. And I think that just like a
simple story, like the calling of the fisherman is one that I
(15:26):
think I know is going to warm people's hearts, you know,
because Jesus is taking the initiative.
He's walking along the Sea of Galilee.
He sees the fisherman casting the Nets into the sea.
What are they looking for? Are they looking for fish?
So they're not looking for Jesus.
They're not looking for God. Are they reading their Bibles?
Like where are they in the church?
(15:48):
Are they praying? Are they crossing themselves,
ready to take the Eucharist? I mean, where are they?
OK, they're they're out on the Sea of Galilee.
And so Jesus sees them and then he calls them.
Follow me. OK.
Well, does he tell them they have to stop smoking and
drinking? You know, like carrying around a
sharp machete ready for a fight?Does he tell him that they have
(16:10):
to get married? Does he?
What does he say they have to do?
Right. And, well, there's nothing that
he says they have to do. So what did they do?
Well, they looked their Nets. Well, did he tell them to leave
their Nets? No, he didn't tell him to leave
their Nets. Well, do you guys have any Nets?
No, we don't have any Nets. Wow.
So you wouldn't, you wouldn't even be able to live in that.
(16:31):
No, we wouldn't be able to live our Nets.
That kind of stuff like just like Jesus coming and just
offering like to like recruiting.
He's recruiting people to join him.
And then what do they do? Will they go?
And they have crowds of people who bring all their lame and all
their blind and deaf and, and demonised and he heals them all.
And like, how would you like to do that?
(16:52):
How would you like to see someone doing that?
Do we have people like that in our community that would benefit
from, from Jesus And, and wow, he's, he's called the Son of God
and he's described as the one who reveals God.
What if God looked like Jesus? What would God be like?
Well, he goes to where we are, where we're not even looking for
(17:14):
God, where we're looking for money.
But where would that be here? Well, here we are in the
cornfield right now. That kind of thing, right?
That would be the message that would really get people, like,
excited. Very grassroots, isn't it it's
where you're at it's very it's where people are at it's it's
profound, isn't it and and Bob you're you're doing similar
(17:36):
things now back in the US working with the poor as well.
We are. We're all about hearing God's
voice in the midst of our lives.So thinking back and it's again
another big question, what aboutthe Holy Spirit?
What role has the Holy Spirit played in your ministry?
Hearing God's voice, What does that meant for you?
(18:00):
Yes, So in kind of a long ways into our life as followers of
Jesus, we, we became initiated, I guess into I guess the
ministry of the Holy Spirit is what I'd say.
We, we went to, we were very reluctant to have anything to do
with any, anything charismatic because of a lot of bad
(18:23):
experiences and the hype that weoften saw associated with it and
just different things. But we ended up feeling we
needed to see more of we needed something more that because the
people we were serving were so challenging, especially in North
America with all the drug addiction and, and gang, gang
(18:44):
violence and drive by shootings and people recidivism, you know,
people relapsing in reoffending.And so we went to a place where
it was a charismatic conference and there was an opportunity to
respond to receive prayer, to kind of step into the
empowerment of the Spirit. And a young British guy was
(19:07):
praying for my line of people that I was standing outstanding
the radio receive prayer very reluctant praying that Jesus
prayer that Jesus would protect you from any kind of germ of
Christian nationalism or moralism or right wing right
wing edness. When you told that story, you're
praying protection before you receiving prayer.
(19:30):
Yeah, protection from Jesus, from from anything not clean
that was called Holy Spirit thatthey were carrying, you know, So
I think I had a good reason to be wary.
But anyway, this guy, young guy came down my line of people and
he got to me and he he prophesied in a way that I'd
(19:50):
never experienced anything even close.
He he's just a young British guy, probably in his early 20s.
And he said, I see you in a circle of of men.
In red uniforms, sitting on blueplastic chairs.
And I, I think they're prisoners.
And I, and I was like, whoa, that's, that's what I've been
doing the last 10 years every twice a week.
(20:13):
You know, I didn't tell him that, but in my heart, I was
just acknowledging. Yeah, OK.
And he says, and I hear the father saying, I love how you
love my prisoners. And my experience with
charismatics was always them telling me that I that I wasn't
doing something. I wasn't speaking in tongues.
I wasn't, you know, I wasn't empowered by the Holy Spirit.
(20:37):
I wasn't healing people. I wasn't, wasn't, wasn't.
And here's someone saying, you know, like giving me an
affirming word that was at the core of my calling.
And, and that's why I was there is because I, I, I really love
the people I was working with and wanted to open myself to
receiving more if it would help them.
And so anyway, then the guy goeson and he says, and I hear the
(21:00):
Father saying, I'm going to giveyou fresh revelation from the
Bible that will make your heart and the people's hearts burn.
And that was my favourite scripture.
I may have the mash Rd and and what I would long for probably
more than almost anything. So this guy was just nailing it
like and I was so touched. I I just was completely like
(21:23):
Mike. My defences went down and then
he said, and I hear now the father saying, I'm going to give
you an anointing for healing so that your words will be
confirmed by the signs that follow.
And when he said that I couldn'tstand up anymore, I, I was
overcome by the spirit and I felt, and I had this vision of
(21:44):
like blue, blue flames coming off my hands.
And my hands were just like, they felt like they were on
fire. And I was just like, Oh no, you
know, what have I got myself into, right?
And and that that was just the beginning of kind of this, you
know, I received a lot of prayerat that, at that conference and
(22:06):
kind of came back knowing that that couldn't go back to my old.
I didn't want to go back to the old, but I didn't know what what
the new was going to look like at all.
I was, you know, pretty afraid that now I'd become charismatic
and Oh no, what's that going to?Mean you've become one of us.
(22:26):
But am I gonna have to pray for people?
And what if nothing happens whenI pray for them and all those
kind of things, right? Just want to be discreet and
then feeling like now if I'm carrying something like what do
I do with it? And not wanting to be associated
with power and authority but then feeling like OK well then
how can I carry the authority ofJesus if I don't, If I'm anti
(22:48):
authority? MMM.
Oh, that's a that's a great question.
We are talking with Bob Ekblad who works with his wife Gracie
at Tierra Nueva. How do I say Tierra?
Tierra Nueva Tierra. Nueva Yeah, that's South
American. Beautiful accent right over in
(23:08):
Washington state here on the podcast.
We'll be back in. Did you know that dreams and
visions are the most common way God spoke in biblical history?
And God still speaks in this powerful and creative way today.
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So how do we know when it is? And how do we understand the
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(23:30):
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(23:53):
slash courses We've been chatting with Bob Ekblad and
Bob, you've just shared an incredible God conversation that
took place in relation to your ministry with the poor.
So can you tell us what happenedafterwards?
You've had this incredible experience.
(24:14):
God's spoken to you. He's going to give you a healing
anointing. What did that mean for your
ministry after that? You know, I in the gaols where
I, I, I work, I had an experience like a month after
that where this big neo Nazi white guy was, he came in with a
(24:35):
couple of other white guys and there were a bunch of gang,
Latino gang members that were there.
And, and I, I opened up the Bible study by saying, look, you
guys, I don't want to just impose my little whatever my
agenda is on you. What do you want to talk about?
And the white neo Nazi guy said I I'm an effing racist and I
want to F and learn along, learnto get along with the Mexicans.
(24:59):
And I was like, whoa, OK, well, OK, well, so we looked at a
Bible study. We did, I think Luke 15, you
know, Jesus eating with tax collectors and sinners and and
we we looked at that. That was the one that I had
chosen at the end of the Bible study.
I said, how should we respond tothis?
(25:20):
You know, it was about the lost sheep and Jesus leaving the 99
going after the one and you know, but it was also about, you
know, how that's the heart of God that Jesus wanted to
transmit to the Pharisees who were judging him for eating with
tax collectors and sinners. That's where it worked with them
for the racism or the the othering of someone, you know,
like rather than like pursuing them in love.
(25:43):
So I said, how should we respondto this?
And this guy, Zach said. I think we should pray for
Fabiano, that God would heal hiseffluent liver.
And there's this guy Fabiano, who's a really humble but huge,
like, Latino gangster. And he said, he said I am.
(26:04):
I asked him if he had a liver problem and he had cirrhosis of
the liver and would have been crying every night in his cell
and people could hear him. He didn't tell me that he was
keeping crying, but I learned that afterwards.
And I said, well, can we pray for your liver?
And then he said, I guess. And then I said, well, what
about you, Zach? I knew Zach had liver failure
(26:25):
from heroin use and his hands were like swollen twice their
normal size. And, and I said, why don't we
just pray for you too? And he goes, no, you know, I'm
just a selfish guy. And I, I think we should just
pray for Fabiano. Like, there's just way too much
about me in my life. I just think I want to think
about him. And I said, well, we can pray
for you too. And he goes, OK, whatever.
(26:47):
So I, I just very tentatively laid my hands on both of them,
them where their livers were figure their livers probably
were more or less. And we prayed.
And then within a week, next week, I came in and heard that
there was no no pain and no symptoms of liver problems.
(27:07):
It just left right from that point.
But you know, getting prophetic impressions was something that I
I was really struggling. Like, I just didn't know how
that guy, the young Brit in Toronto had perceived me to be
in a circle of men, red uniforms.
(27:27):
Like, how is it that he was ableto perceive that and get that
revelation so clearly? It was so clear and so personal,
so related to me. I, you know, I was, I was kind
of on a quest to understand prophecy, I guess, but I was not
hearing or getting any impressions.
And so one day we had this team from a British guy and a guy
(27:50):
from Toronto, they came to teachon hearing the voice of God.
And on the last day, I offered for them to go to the gaol with
me and we went in and at the endof my Bible study, they said, do
you mind if we share some impressions that we're getting?
And they named like 15 conditions.
And everyone people were saying,yeah, that's me.
(28:11):
You know, someone would say he would.
One of them say you, you had it,you were under your car and Jack
tipped over in the car, fell on your chest and you've got pain
in your sternum since three years ago.
Just really specific impressionslike that.
And. And so there were like 15 things
that they named and they were all within the group of about 20
(28:33):
people. We prayed for them and they were
all healed and I just thought, wow, what in the world?
That is crazy. I didn't get a single
impression, but these two guys, these two guys were just like so
spot on. And that challenged me and made
me thirsty and, you know, not just because I thought I could
(28:58):
see how impacted these inmates were who I who I knew, you know,
from years of being in there. And so I began to pursue more of
the gift, you know, the, I guessprophecy.
And then I asked somebody, why do you think I I'm not able to
hear when I'm in a group? I could, I could hear when I was
(29:18):
one on one with people, like I would often pray with people
even before I had that experience with the Holy Spirit.
People would cry when I was praying for them.
And, and I learned later that that was because I was getting
prophetic impressions as I prayed without knowing it.
And because that's probably one of the best ways to hear God's
voices when we're praying because we're connecting in with
(29:41):
God and whether we're charismatic or not, Like when
you're praying, you're, you're connecting with God.
And so and God, prayer is 2 way communication, right?
Here's the expert. In yes, apparently.
Someone said did you ever judge people that were exercising
public prophecy? Because if you did, that could
(30:01):
be the what's behind you not getting any prophetic
impressions when you're in public settings.
And so right away I thought of like 3 or 4 examples, like 1
from my childhood where a prophetic person was naming men
in a room, a Christian businessman's association
meeting where he was pointing tomen who were having affairs.
(30:23):
And as a young boy, I saw that Iwas with my dad and I felt, I
felt all their shame. And I remember saying I'll never
have anything to do with this. And so I I made a vow that I
would never have anything to do with that.
And so when I forgave that person and I just said, OK, it
was wrong the way he exercised that gift, but I dropped my
(30:45):
charges against him. And I turn away from my own vow
that I'll never be, that I'll never have anything to do with
this. That opened up, that opened me
up. And I and I began to after that,
notice that God was speaking to me in public when I was with
groups of people. Interesting to breakthrough some
of those misconceived ideas, don't we?
(31:07):
Before we can be open to what the spirit is doing and saying.
That's a that's a fascinating story, Bob.
You know, as I was preparing forthis podcast, I was reflecting
on actually after even hearing you speak at Newline a couple of
weeks ago, I remembered I've been challenged that as
(31:30):
Christians that Jesus, to have the heart of Jesus means to have
a heart for the poor. And that when the Spirit speaks
as the continuing voice of Jesus, then it would be expected
that God will lead us into ministering to the poor.
And I keep asking God myself, you know, who am I poor?
Who are the people in my life that I'm called to have the
(31:52):
heart of Jesus towards? How has God taught you about his
heart for the poor? How is hearing the Spirit moving
in the Spirit, Experiencing the Spirit connected or opened up
your heart in new ways towards God's heart?
(32:13):
Um, I mean, I think I had that heart and and it was I think
more I have the Holy Spirit has turned me into to people's a lot
(32:33):
of their root wounds have where they began to feel oppressed and
excluded. You know, that maybe led them in
down a bad Rd is from I guess myheart has, you know, has been
touched by the way that God has spoken to me about people when I
when I've gotten when I've heardGod's voice or, you know, gotten
(32:56):
prophetic oppression impressionsabout people.
So I can give some examples of that if you'd like.
Yeah, that'd be great. Like I came into the gaol one
time and I was in the mental health pod of the gaol where it
was all people who have been diagnosed bipolar or psychotic
(33:17):
or delusional or whatever. And I came in and I there were
some men that gathered at a table for the Bible study.
And I looked at this one guy andimmediately this this impression
came to me. Someone, that guy's been shot
and he's in pain. And so I sat down and I, I
(33:38):
looked at it around everybody, like four guys and I said, has
anyone by any chance been shot And you're still in pain?
And the guy who I got his showedme, said yes, you know me and,
and he pointed to his his left shoulder.
I said, well, what happened? He goes, I was, I was shot and
(34:00):
the bullet went through my left shoulder, broke my collarbone
and then lodged in my neck against my carotid artery.
He didn't say the carotid artery, but against an artery
and and I've been and I said, well, so you're in pain.
He goes, yeah, I mean my left side is almost all paralysed and
I'm in pain all the time and he's just 20 year old guy, gang
(34:23):
member and he was in for second degree murder.
So he was looking at it very long prison sentence.
And I said, well, I wonder whether that was could have
been, you know, God that wanted,you know, put that into my mind
that there was someone struggling, suffering from a
gunshot, wounded in order for usto possibly pray for you, you
(34:47):
know, would you be willing to receive prayer?
And he said, look, I'm, I don't believe in God.
And I said that's OK. Um, you don't have to believe in
God. Um, we can still pray for you.
Um, I can still pray for you. And he goes, OK, whatever.
(35:08):
So I went around and laid hands on his shoulder, prayed for him
right away. All the paralysis left his left
side, OK, And he was so touched and just kind of shocked And so
like for me that God's heart forthe, for the not just the poor,
but the violent offender, right?That God wouldn't even require
(35:32):
faith or a change of life or or really anything.
It was like God making me a confidant of his tenderness, of
his love, and bringing me into his love.
Like recruiting me to express something that would show how
(35:52):
much you loved this person who'dmurdered someone else, right?
So then I came back a week later, and the guy was very
stunned by it, right? And but he still had all this
pain in his neck and he showed me with his hand where the
bullet was still lodged and he had neck pain.
It's like prayed for him about that and all the pain left and
(36:16):
it was just so generous of God to just heal this guy.
Then he got the fight the next day, a really bad fight, and he
was thrown in solitary confinement for a whole month.
And while he was in solitary confinement, he read through a
lot of the parts of the Bible and became a a believer.
And when I saw him after he got out, he was, you know, he was
(36:38):
calling himself a follower of Jesus.
Incredible, amazing and I think does that.
Perhaps you know, you earlier said your conundrum with coming
into the power of the Holy Spirit, that you had avoided
exercising power over people because that has been a legacy
in many places where the poor orthe marginalised have felt like
(37:00):
people have exercised power overthem.
How did you? Perhaps that's a way of
reconciling those two issues, that when the Spirit speaks to
move in power, it's from a placeof love and compassion.
Would that be a way that you've reconciled it or?
Oh yeah, definitely compassion. Just like very strong, you know,
(37:30):
preemptive sort of love that is that doesn't require a response,
but that elicits a response justbecause it's so it's so
startling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So perhaps responding to the Holy Spirit for us is about
(37:51):
allowing God to expand our hearts for other people.
Yeah, even aside from the miracles, even aside from the
exercising of power or the declaring of the good news
begins with allowing the Spirit to break our hearts for people.
Oh yeah. And you know, that's happened,
(38:13):
you know, when you, I guess, when you decide to risk, um,
well, putting yourself in a place where you feel, I guess
lead to, to go, you know, through however you, you're led,
you know, like I've been in lotsof settings where, you know, for
(38:33):
me, they become, you know, if you, if you're faithful in what
God gives you to do, often that leads to new opportunities to
like, you know, it's like God will tap you to do more.
And so it's not as big of a leapfor you to do the next thing
(38:54):
because you've already kind of you're on a journey.
Yes. And, um, and so, you know, the
one who's faithful in in little will be, will be given more that
that idea. Yeah, I think really works when
it comes to healing and prophecyand, you know, just missional
engagements. It's what I've seen.
Yeah. And more doesn't always mean
bigger, and a lot of times it means gnarlier.
(39:19):
Yes, it does mean earlier, sort of bloodier, more difficult,
challenging, like dealing with people that are maybe less
desirable than maybe you needed to be coached and loved and you
needed to witness God's love so that you could be converted to
His heart. Hmm, Well, thank you, Bob, when
(39:43):
what a remarkable story. And we just say thankful for
your example and your leadershipin the body of Christ showing us
what it means to be on that edgeand those Narli places because
you and Gracie are in those places all the time.
So you have an authority to teach us the heart of Jesus, I
think, and to encourage us to move into that space.
(40:04):
Keep listening to the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit that leads us to share the gospel with the good
news, with the poor and set the captive free and sight for the
blind. That beautiful Commission that
Jesus gave. So thank you again, Bob.
Is there anything we can pray for specifically if your
ministry at the moment? You know, I think probably just
(40:29):
prayer that we would, you know, we would be, we would be
faithful and courageous. You know, like right now we're
doing a lot of work on the streets, going out and just
hanging with, you know, people that are at the addicts who are
fentanyl consuming fentanyl, smoking it.
And there's been a lot of overdose deaths in our region
(40:49):
and people, you know, just knowing, I guess being in that
place where we're where we, where our hearts are tender and
getting more tender and not becoming the number part, you
know, I mean, I don't really seethat as much of A threat.
It's, it's more having the courage sometimes to press in
(41:14):
to, to really hear what God's saying to us about how to, how
to operate in some of those settings, because we'd like to
see people, Tom, find their way out of that, you know, out of
that very dangerous cycle of addiction that's leading to so
many overdose deaths. Yeah.
(41:36):
And we're, you know, we need sort of a new, I don't know,
something more than what we, what we're experiencing.
That's certainly something that we we can pray for, and I just
encourage our listeners to do that even now as we finish up,
say a prayer for Bob and Gracie.If you want to know more about
their incredible work, jump on the show notes for this episode
(41:59):
and you can find them there. Thank you again, Bob, for your
time and your wisdom and your grace in what you do.
It's been such a pleasure to have you on board.
Thanks for listening to God Conversations with Tanya Harris.
Don't miss the next episode by subscribing to the show on your
favourite podcast app. And remember, the Holy Spirit
was given so we could all hear God's voice.
(42:22):
It was never meant to be a one way conversation.
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