February 3, 2025 • 37 mins
Terry Prayed for God to Heal his Church. God Answered with an Invitation to Heal his Heart.
Have you ever prayed for something in your life and God answers in a completely different way? Pastor Terry Bone was praying for all the problems of the church when God answered with a vision that pointed to all the problems in his heart!
Our show today is about the unexpected journey God takes us on when we begin listening for the Spirit’s voice. This was the experience of our guest, Terry Bone. His God-conversations led to him to receive healing for some of the painful experiences from his childhood to a place of freedom.
This has to be one of my favourite God conversations on our show – partly because Terry shares so honestly and openly from his own experience! Terry is from Ontario, Canada and after 20 years pastoring, now has a ministry as a “transition pastor” and consultant for churches across the country. He has authored two books and is involved in overseas missions. He has a passion for the Holy Spirit and even gives a plug for my book!
You are going to love this conversation and I know it’s going to challenge you to allow God to speak into your own heart.
In our conversation, you’ll hear about:
- Terry’s God story, coming from a nominal church background and the party scene, to the days of the Jesus Revolution where Terry was drawn to God by the idea of a personal relationship with God rather than the empty religion he had previously known.
- How the Holy Spirit spoke to Terry to lead him on a journey of emotional healing. Terry realised that hearing God’s voice was not just about trying to find direction and guidance:
“I was driven, focussed on performance – a Type A personality. So for me, hearing God was always about trying to find direction rather than the “search me O God and know my anxious thoughts” prayer. I didn’t want to go there but I got cornered.”
- Terry’s testimony of praying for his church that was fraught with problems – a huge debt, dwindling numbers, an empty building and a board in conflict, and the vision God gave me in response.
“I saw the roof of a church replaced by a stain glass dome. One of the panels had my name in it. As the picture zoomed in, I heard the words, ‘that’s the church you’re trying to build.’”
- Terry’s experience with the Holy Spirit as counsellor, setting him free from fear and how his ministry completely changed as a result. Terry’s journey to freedom effectively led to healing of many others in his church! Today his ministry involves guiding others through the same process as they open their hearts to God.
How could I live and teach without seeing this? It’s like a conversion experience. The Holy Spirit is a genius. God knows exactly what path to take us on!
- Terry’s reflections on our the nature of our relationship with God and the reward that comes as we continue to listen and respond to God’s voice.
To just want God’s voice for guidance, that’s not friendship. When God becomes our friend, the guidance is easy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Good conversations with Tanya Harris.
Let me ask you that question. What does God tell?
Well, you know, Thunder Light isMother Teresa.
Someone asked her. When did God speak to you?
And she said whenever he wants. So essentially the Bible is a
collection of God conversations if you like.
I had a vision. Of a car accident and I'm
sitting on the couch thinking why have I just.
(00:21):
Seen this? How could I know if God was
speaking to me? How could I know that that dream
or that thought was actually just me thinking about how I
said the bad? Jesus said we'd recognise his
voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation. Have you ever prayed for
(00:42):
something in your life and God has answered in a completely
different way? Pastor Terry Bone was praying
for all the problems of the church he'd just been appointed
to when God answered with a vision that would completely
change his heart. Hi and welcome to the God
Conversations podcast. My name is Tanya Harris and I'm
a pastor, practical theologian, author and the founding director
(01:05):
of God Conversations, a ministrythat equips you to recognise and
respond to God's voice. Our show today is all about
hearing God for emotional healing, and it has to be.
I have to say it's one of my favourite God Conversations,
partly because our guest shares so honestly and openly from his
own experience and that this hasmeant he can pass on that same
(01:28):
ministry to others. Terry Bone is from Ontario,
Canada and after 20 or so years pastoring a church, now has a
ministry as a transition pastor and a consultant for many
different churches. He's authored 2 books and he's
also involved in overseas missions.
He has a passion for the Holy Spirit and that's how we
(01:49):
connected. He even gives a plug for my
book. You're going to love this
conversation, and I know it's going to challenge you to give
God permission to work in your own heart.
At least I pray that to be so. We'll play the interview in just
a moment, but just want to say aquick hi to all our listeners,
particularly any new ones hailing from Canada.
(02:11):
I had the privilege of teaching some Canadians online a few
months back and a visit there quite a few times.
So I just love how God connects us with the right people around
at the right time, no matter where they're from.
And don't forget, those who are not new to the podcast, please
give us a rating on iTunes or onSpotify.
Give us a review. It helps us to get this message
(02:33):
out there so people know about the podcast.
And also don't forget that you can subscribe to our fortnightly
updates at the God Conversationswebsites at any time.
They come out every couple of weeks.
They give you an idea of what's up in terms of new podcasts and
articles and videos so you'll never miss an episode.
And one more thing, the big newsfor us is that just this month,
(02:58):
the time of recording, at least the church who hears God's
voice, we talk about this in theinterview, has just come out on
audio. It's been out in two years on
Kindle and in hard copy. And now for all you lovers of
listening, it's available on Audible and I actually do the
reading, so you'll get to hear my voice, which is always a lot
(03:20):
of fun. In fact, when I did the actual
recording, you know, after a year of the book being out or
so, I went through and did the recording and noticed there was
about 15 errors in the book. So it's amazing what you pick up
when you read something out loudin spite of all the editing.
So the Audible version is spot on.
(03:41):
Anyway, enjoy. But for now, I'd like to
introduce you to Terry Bone as we talk about hearing God for
emotional healing. So good to have you Terry on the
podcast Welcome to God Conversations.
Oh I can't wait, that's one of my favourite topics.
Now we've been connecting. I think we connected a few
(04:03):
months ago. Wasn't it through a mutual
friend Who gave you my book? That's true lady named Heather,
who's on the board of our ministry and a good friend told
me that I would benefit from reading this book by someone she
had met once at a conference andI started in I don't read that
many Christian books. I love history and stories and
(04:26):
biographies and this I, I openedyour book God Conversations with
a very low expectations that I would get through it.
But I was halfway through that book before I knew it because I
just kept saying, yeah, that's how I that's what I believe.
That's a great way to say that. It's such a blessing to hear
that. I think people who've
(04:46):
experienced the Spirit, you know, I think it was the church
who hears God's voice, is articulating what we've
experienced a little bit and so it resonates with people.
But Terry, you have such an interesting story and such an
interesting mission. You're from Canada, but you also
are involved in all sorts of spiritual and emotional health
(05:07):
teaching as well as transition coaching and missions.
It's a really interesting mix, ministry mix.
And I wonder for those of you, for our audience who is
obviously beyond Canada as well,tell us a little bit about
yourself. Tell us a little of the Terry
Bone story. How did you get to be doing what
you are doing now? Wow, that's a, it's a, it's a
(05:30):
long history, long story. I I got saved in the Jesus
Revolution days and I came from a very nominal church
background. My parents would party on a
Saturday night and send us to Sunday school and church on a
Sunday morning. You know, we'll stay home, you
go. And once in a while we all
(05:52):
dressed up and went as a family.But it meant nothing to me.
But I was fascinated when it wasactually a runaway teen came to
our home and we were sitting there in the living room before
her parents came to pick her up.And she said to me, I actually
have a relationship with Jesus and he talks to me and I talked
(06:13):
to him. And it just blew my mind.
And something rose up in me. I thought, oh, imagine that to
really be able to talk to God. Well, that was just one of the
markers along the way. But I soon also became a
Christian. And for me it was a process that
led to one night, one decision. It was a Friday night, 11:30 PM,
(06:37):
and the next morning I knew as aChristian and I never, I never
varied from that. But it was my choice and my
family actually wasn't in favourof it.
They were worried, thought I wasin a cult.
I was a little too enthusiastic,a little too willing to talk
about it. But here's The thing is that my
relationship with God was alwayslike a personal relationship.
(07:01):
There was no religion to learn or unlearn.
It was just Jesus loves me, He saved me, He's my saviour, He's
benevolent, He's a friend, and Iwant to hear his voice.
And you know, so at first I looked for signs.
I didn't know any better, so I would ask God, when I go out to
(07:22):
pray, I want the clouds to move and I want to see the moon.
And then when I come back in, I want the clouds to go back in.
I didn't know how to hear his voice.
And I asked for signs. And it's kind of like when
people are boating, you know, when people are in boats, you
see another boat. You always wave.
Yes, there's something about it.Oh, there's a boat, you know,
like if you're walking in the street, maybe not.
(07:44):
But when you're in a boat, you wave.
And it was kind of like that. I was like, I'm waving at God,
wanting him to wave back at me. That's me.
That's what you do when you're not close to someone or you
don't know how to speak to them or your two boats passing
quickly. And so I started out asking for
signs. And God was so good, he would
(08:04):
often do what I was asking. But within a year or two, I
really felt I needed to start hearing his voice.
And the two big areas were career and life partner.
I'm around 20 years old and I sat under a tree for four hours
and said, I'm going to hear God.And four hours later I had one
word, wait. And I thought, now what do I do
with that so that I'm not going to do nothing.
(08:26):
So I went and started computer career because I was asking
Lord, do I go into ministry or do I go into business career?
So I went into a business career, got married.
And that's another God story, how he showed me who I should be
married to. And then 12 years later, well,
so I had a computer career, computer repairman back in the
(08:47):
days. I mean, this is so long ago.
One of my repair tools was a hammer.
Try that on your MacBook Pro Computers were a lot bigger in
those days. Then I went into systems
software and application software.
And then God called me into ministry out of that when I was
young, married with a couple of kids, and him Pastor was
(09:09):
pastoring for almost 20 years. And then God spoke to me again
to give it all up and go travel.And part of that's missions and
part of that's helping leaders. So there's been, there's been
like 4 transitions in my life where there was, there was no
way to know without God talking to me.
And each time it was different, but each time it was clear.
(09:31):
And here we are today, the international ministry of
Bangladesh, Nepal, other countries where we have workers
that we we fund ourselves and wehelp leaders with reaching the
least reached, most vulnerable. And here in Canada, I do
leadership coaching. So that's a lot.
That's where we are at this point, loving it.
Beautiful. I know some of your work
(09:53):
involves transition coaching, which is helping churches
transition. I think change is something that
we all find very difficult, isn't it?
And sometimes we want the quick fix, but it does take time to
move from one season to the next.
And obviously you've had a few of those experiences, Terry.
Yeah, in this culture today witheverything movement so fast, the
only thing permanent is change. Yeah, even more so of late as
(10:15):
well. So, and I love your passion for
the Holy Spirit. We've been talking about what is
God doing in the church and whatis God doing in Canada and more
broadly. But you specialised particularly
in this area of emotional and spiritual healing.
And I think, you know, people have become a lot more aware
about the importance of emotional intelligence, self
(10:36):
awareness and health, and not just in our physical bodies, but
in our mental bodies. So I think this area is so
crucial in this space and there's a lot of help out there,
but we wanted to focus a little bit on how does God bring
emotional health? What does the Spirit do to bring
emotional health? How does God communicate into
(10:57):
this area? So I wonder if you can just give
us a little bit of an overview. How is God's voice connected to
emotional healing? Well, you know this.
I am so glad that we're talking about this because if I drill
down deeper at those Inflexion points in my life, it was always
trying to find direction, you know, asking God for His will,
(11:21):
His choice, His leading. And I, I became pretty
accustomed to that through yearsof practise on a regular basis.
But I would not be very good at all at hearing God's voice for
the search me, O God, and know my anxious thoughts.
(11:41):
Try me and, and, and see if there's any hurtful way in me.
I wasn't very good at that. And frankly, I didn't want to go
there, but I got cornered because so I had to go there.
And then I began to hear God's voice as a Searchlight
(12:02):
spotlight, shining his light on my motives, my thinking
patterns, my unrecognised desireand drivers of my behaviour.
Because what we see above the surface like an iceberg is our
behaviour and our emotions and our public identity that we
carefully craft and curate all the time depending on the
(12:24):
situation we're in. But what's driving the
behaviours is our deepest beliefs.
What's driving the emotions is our deepest desires.
And what's below all of them is our true identity in Christ.
And what keeps us from getting down there often is a vault
where we've locked in all sorts of guardian lies and things like
that. I had no idea of this.
(12:44):
I had no idea of this. I, you know, call myself a type
A and driven and felt I was I was that was as a character
strength. But when we went to our second
church, so God made it clear that we should go in the
ministry and it was all big happy time because we were asked
to come on staff at our home church.
We didn't have to move and we loved the people.
(13:04):
They loved us. They gave us they gave us this
wonderful send off when we left the first church.
We've been there 10 years. And they put the they took an
evening service and turned the whole thing into a tribute to us
with skits and testimonies and afarewell.
And they lined up to shake her hand.
So I had this misconception thatI was a nice guy.
(13:26):
And then we went to this town called Grimsby, not Grimsby,
England, Grimsby, Canada. But the word has the town name,
has the word Grimm in it, and that became prophetic for us.
So we went to a church where they didn't tell us till we got
there that they were in big trouble, financial trouble.
(13:47):
They had almost $1,000,000 in debt at 12%.
They had 90 people. They built a new big building.
They couldn't afford it. The board was fighting.
This previous pastor had quit without notice.
There was a man who was schizophrenic in the church who
thought he was a prophet. He'd interrupt the services and
start prophesying against me. It was a gong show.
(14:09):
It was like a a sitcom with, youknow, but it wasn't funny to me
then. And my wife is a pastor's
daughter and she never wanted tobe in the ministry until God
spoke to us and said, leave the career, computer career.
And so when we got here to Grimsby, she turned to me one
day and she said, see, I told you this is what the ministry
(14:30):
will get you into. So I had a gift.
I think it's important. I want to get to your question,
but how I got there it was. It was so hard because I didn't
get there because one day I wokeup and said, oh, I know how to
hear God's voice. Maybe I'll find out everything
that's wrong in my heart and gethealed today.
But I was given something that Inow see as a gift that I never
saw as a gift, and that's desperation.
I was backed in a corner, couldn't quit, couldn't afford
(14:53):
to quit. I was out of date and computers.
I had no options and I began to cry out to God.
Well. Can we just stop there for a
moment, Terry, because I think that's instructive.
It is true that if we, if life is going great and things are
going fine, we have no need to say God search me, change me,
heal me, touch me, do we? And so we motor on automatically
(15:14):
by default using the same habitsof behaviour.
And it seems to be when we hit that crisis state or that place
of desperation for you or whatever that might be, we then
find ourselves, I don't know, giving Holy Spirit permission
to, to dig a bit deeper because I, I think that prayer, search
(15:36):
me God, that, you know, put thatspotlight on my heart.
Dig a bit deeper is a very braveprayer.
And we tend not to pray it unless we are desperate.
So that doesn't surprise me thatyou found yourself in that
place. I think that God uses those
situations to bring us there, and that's when they do become a
(15:58):
gift. Exactly.
And since you mentioned it, we'll start kind of the end of
the process and just give some key points on the way through.
But one of the things I realisedalong the way, because our
denomination, they're like, oh, your past is all under the
blood, meaning, you know, Jesus taking care of it and forget it,
(16:21):
it's gone. It's past like don't dig it up.
You don't need to do those things just to be filled with
the spirit and move on. And so a couple of things
happened. There is, as I realised, it's
not, it's not always under the blood.
Sometimes it's under the cork and that is it's bottled up
inside, you know. Yeah, sure.
I was saved in the sense I came from darkness to light and I'm
(16:42):
no longer under the penalty of sin.
One day I'll no longer be under the presence of sin when I get a
new body and I'm in his presence.
But right now I'm being delivered on a regular basis
from the power of sin as my soulcontinually disengages from old
lies, habits, family patterns, ungodly beliefs, and as as the
(17:03):
light of his word through the power of His presence
evangelises the dark areas of myheart.
I didn't have that as my theology at that time, but I
realised even the way we interpret scripture, because
Psalm 139 is a poem and it says that God knows everything starts
off saying any word. You know it before it leaves my
(17:24):
mouth. The darkness not dark to you.
You saw me when I was inside my mother's womb.
It's it's basically saying God sees and knows everything before
behind within he knows it. And then the response is search
me, O God and and my heart try me and know my anxious thoughts
and see if there be what? What would you?
How would you fill in the blanks?
(17:44):
See if there be any. Wicked weigh in me, I think.
Got it. Everybody says that, but that's
not what the that's not what theoriginal language says.
It actually says way of pain. And that's that's not up for
grabs. That's not an interpretation.
That's what the phrase is, but we have interpreted it based on
our theology. And if you break that out
(18:05):
without going too deep, it says see if there's any something way
and lead me in the way everlasting.
So it's it's like a poetic, it'slike a couplet or you know the
contrast. So he's saying, search me to see
if there's any way of pain. In other words, is there any way
(18:25):
that I'm currently behaving or believing that's based on the
pain of my past and replace it with the way everlasting.
In other words, the truth about me in your eyes and the truth
about who you are. And, and somehow this came upon
me like a truth bomb, that a lotof my life was being driven from
(18:47):
the lies I'd collected and the fears I acquired from the pain
of my past. And so the Holy Spirit began to
directly speak to me about it ina revelatory way, and I in ways
that I think are unusual, so that I could understand it,
never forget it, and help teach others and lead them through it.
(19:07):
So can you give us an example, Terry?
OK so it starts here. It starts with with a vision I
had while I was praying. So I'm praying and we prayed and
prayed and prayed and prayed forthe church. 3 morning prayer
meetings a week. We pray before Sunday after
Sunday, Tuesday night women, Thursday morning men and Tuesday
(19:29):
morning like we were praying allthe time, passionate.
And one day I was laying on the Pew on a Tuesday morning, just
laying there by myself and I wasdepressed about some things that
were going on or discouraged. And I had what I'll say an open
eyed vision. But think of when you're waking
up in the morning and you're mixing up what you're actually
(19:50):
seeing with what your mind's seeing.
There was no, this wasn't something like John a revelation
or Ezekiel or Daniel. It's just mental pictures.
Very, very quick and very simple.
But I saw the roof of the churchreplaced by stained glass Dome.
And in one of the stained glass panels, my name was in it.
(20:10):
And as as the picture zoomed in,I heard these words in my mind.
That's the church you're trying to build.
And you know, when God wants to tell us what to do and how to
behave, he could write it. He could write us a note or he
could write it on 2 tablets. He could put it in a law.
But when he wants to communicatehis heart, that's where the
(20:32):
dreams and visions come in. And this is the first sermon
ever preached the New Testament church.
Everyone can have a dream or a vision or hear the Holy Spirit
because God wants to write theirlaw, His law, on their hearts,
and that's His language of the heart.
I love that God is very creativein the way God communicates.
I am super keen to understand what that vision meant for your
(20:53):
emotional healing, Terry. We are talking to Pastor Terry
Bone all the way from Ontario inCanada about hearing God's voice
and emotional healing. We'll be back to find out more
in just a moment. What does God sound like?
How do I know it's Him? They're the questions I asked
(21:15):
myself at 21. I'd read stories of God speaking
throughout the Bible, but I'd never heard His voice for
myself. So I decided to try it out.
Speak Lord, and if you make it really clear, I'll do whatever
you say. My new book, God Conversations,
is all about what happened when I heard God's voice.
It won't tell you how to hear itas much as it will show you, As
(21:38):
Jesus promised, we can all recognise His voice and know it
enough to follow. Buy it now at
godconversations.com. So, Terry, you've told us about
this interesting vision with thestained glass window on the
rooftop of the church with your name on it.
What on earth does that mean? Well, I heard the words, this is
(21:59):
the church you're trying to build and I just began to weep
because I could see God's heart saying you are using my calling
to make a name for yourself. It was a metaphor of making a
name for myself and like a zip file.
It was like a zip file. The understanding of that just
went right in and I'll never forget it.
(22:20):
So it's 30 years ago now and I just wept and I said, oh man,
I'm I'm trying to prove myself and there is a reason for that.
I had been kind of word cursed. I'm way out of the other church
by somebody who's saying, ah, you had it easy here.
Let's see if you can make it. And I had in my.
Heart not, I think. I'm going to, really, I'm going
to show the world. Yeah, but, and I also think
(22:42):
that's a really common issue in people's hearts.
We're always trying to prove ourselves.
We're trying to prove our value and our performance, aren't we?
Yeah, people could. And whether it's a church or a
business or a career, very similar.
Please go ahead. So.
Hearing the Father's voice like Jesus did.
You're my beloved son and whom I'm well pleased.
Isn't that amazing that that wasn't a ministry plan on the
(23:06):
day of his baptism? OK, now you're baptised.
You fulfilled all righteousness.I want you to go here and here
and here. The first thing he needed before
he did anything was an affirmation from the Father.
So my father died just before I went into ministry.
He was never a Christian, so I was missing the affirmation of
my father. And my Heavenly Father started
to show up and show me that and then begin to speak the
(23:29):
affirmation. So I'll tell you two other ones
quick. So let me just.
Pause you, right? Let me just pause you right
there, Terry. You just just thought when you
receive that vision and you realise what it was, I mean,
it's kind of a rebuke. Oh yeah.
How did that? Make you feel doubt if there was
an attractive. Right.
Yeah. And I think that's super
important because in this emotional healing process, God's
(23:53):
going to pick up on the dirt, you know, and the lies and the
untruths in our hearts, and he'sgoing to shine that light.
And that can be very confronting.
But I think God does it in a very beautiful, kind, gentle way
that arrests us, doesn't it thenpropels us into change.
But because I think it's fear that stops us.
(24:13):
What if God sees something ugly and something toxic?
And what if I'm not good enough?But I I love the way that you've
couched it because it's positively oriented towards
freedom. Oh yeah, you, you hit the nail
on the head there. It's fear.
Fear. Fear is the counter to love, if
I can say it that way. It's it's like there's only two
(24:35):
motivations. There's only two drivers.
At the very, very root is fear or love.
Fear takes us into well, I better steal because I'm afraid
I won't have enough or I better,you know, I'm jealous because
I'm afraid. So fear is that deep, deep root
to many, many behaviours and it's it's healing.
(24:56):
Its counterpart is love. So the next time I had I had AI
had a 22nd dream before I woke up a few weeks later.
Only a few weeks later and I sawa knotted ball of string.
I saw the scripture be angry andsin not like little vignettes. 5
second vignettes. And then I saw one of my deacons
without a shirt on and brown pants walking around the
sanctuary. I woke up and I went, oh, I know
(25:17):
what God's saying. And I again heard in my mind,
I'm going to start dealing. Your heart is like a knotted
ball of string and I'm going to start meddling with it.
Unravelling. It and you're going to get
angry. Don't sin.
I'm getting I'm going for it. And then I thought, what's this
thing about the Deacon? I thought, well, whatever.
So I walked over to the church 5minutes away to pray it through.
Walked into the sanctuary 7:00 on a Tuesday morning.
(25:40):
And there's the Deacon walking around the sanctuary by himself
with brown pants and no shirt on.
And I said to him, Sean, and he goes, oh, pastor, did I offend
you? And I said no, I just saw this
in my bedroom. Oh, that's freaky.
That's so. I know, but what was it?
It was my father saying hello, Mr systems Analyst.
Good morning. This your heavenly Father.
(26:02):
I know everything about you. I know what's going to happen
today and when I give you a dream or a vision, it's accurate
yes. That was just getting through my
my, my math brain to say see howmuch to trust the other things
that had no way to verify. And so two weeks later, I was in
a powerful prayer meeting and I again saw that knot of ball of
(26:23):
string. And this time a hand came and
took out one of the knots and ithad A tag that sent fear.
And for 30 minutes I was on the floor while the Holy Spirit
spoke to me and took me back to a childhood memory and said,
remember this and remember that.Remember how your family laughed
at you and this and this. That's where the fear began.
And you've been a control freak all your life because you're
(26:45):
trying to control and never be in a scary situation again.
It was at the very root of wherefear had started in my life.
And even as I share it now, it'sso powerful, it's so gracious
that the Holy Spirit would be a counsellor.
Yeah. Yeah.
I was really messed up. I was a pastor.
I was full of the Spirit. I haven't shared with you, but I
(27:07):
need to share this for the sake of one of the listeners.
I was starting to have a double life.
I was comforting myself with some sinful behaviour at that
point, just starting. I wasn't unfaithful to my wife
in the sense of being with any other person, but I was starting
to have an imaginary life and and God arrested that and said
I'm going to deal with this if you'll let me.
(27:28):
And it broke the back of it and turned our ministry around.
I began to hear God's voice, prophetic words.
Our church began to be known as a place where the Holy Spirit
was moving. The church went four times and
the growth, the finances turned around.
It was absolutely the turning point.
Many other steps there where we became known for a church that
(27:48):
welcomed the Holy Spirit and where people were getting, I'll
say, delivered from their fears and their sins.
It really was a turning point. That's profound, Terry, I think
and. One more yeah, 10 years later.
On a boat? Let's just sit here for a
moment, if that's all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I think for our listeners listening in, it's
(28:12):
kind of it's, you know, your journey is unique, but the
pathway is quite common to us. And I think you've just
highlighted the consequences of what happens when we cooperate
with the Holy Spirit and what happens when we don't.
Because we start to disconnect ourselves and have those double
lives. We start to behave out of a
(28:34):
certain external motivation or expectation, but the inside of
our hearts are broken. I love that way of understanding
Psalm 139, the way of wicked, the way of pain, because sin,
even wickedness, is actually produces pain.
It produces the inability to receive love and be healed by
(28:56):
love. So I think you've identified
something that is common, and I'm astounded by the fact that
it was so clear in your story that when you began to
experience the healing emotionally, the impact that it
had on your ministry. It's it's, it's phenomenal.
(29:16):
I mean, I couldn't have manufactured this.
I, I can't, I couldn't have madeit happen.
I can't today, but it, it gave God permission to do the same
kind of thing in in the people and we began to see it in great
rapidly. People would get in touch with
the source of their pain, the source of their dysfunction,
(29:40):
dysfunction. And we began to experience the
Holy Spirit as a counsellor. Now if you have a counsellor,
they have to talk to you. You know, like Jesus said, he,
the Holy Spirit's coming. He'll remind you, he'll teach
you, he'll counsel you who will guide you.
All of those are speaking roles.And yet we, we've, we've
relegated it to waving it the boat that passes by getting a
(30:01):
sign. But this is intimate and and
it's our own fears and junk in our heart that keeps us from
hearing and, and, and to just want his voice for guidance.
That's not a friendship. No, you know, it's not.
And when, when he becomes our friend, Jesus said, you know, I
speak to his friends. And then he began to unpack all
(30:22):
that. It's it's interesting.
There then the guidance is is easy.
Correct. Yes, exactly.
You know, it's interesting to methat you came to this church in
Grimsby and then you're having all these prayer meetings for
this area of ministry and the finances and this and that and
this and that, and God goes, well, you've got to knot it up
(30:42):
heart. And so I'm going to knot the
heart. And it's like, let me see how I
answer that prayer. I don't look at all the
externals. I go straight for the jugular
and and I think that's what happens a lot.
We, we, we're praying for our external circumstances helps
change this family member, change this housing situation,
change my finances and God goes,Oh, look, actually let me, let
(31:06):
me put the spotlight on that wayof pain in your heart and let me
heal that and then watch what happens after he goes.
We, we, we, we minister out of who we are.
And so the fullness of our humanbeing rather than a human doing.
And I, I, I love that, but I, I think it's a shock at first,
isn't it? Because we want God just to
(31:27):
patch everything up on the outside.
Oh my goodness, it's, it's, it'sa shock.
It is. The shocking thing is how blind
I was. The shock of it is really, how
could I not see all this? How could I live and teach
without seeing this? But it is like a conversion
(31:50):
experience when we get in touch with the unseen drivers below
the surface. And the Holy Spirit is the best
one. He's a genius, and he knows
where to go and what order to make the revelation.
Because we can't. We can't, can't have everything
about us revealed at once. We couldn't handle it.
(32:11):
We couldn't process it. And he just knows what path to
take and what we're ready for. And I totally believe that.
I'm convinced that when God knows we're serious about this,
he becomes seriously engaged in this conversation with us.
Yeah. Oh, I love that.
It's very individual, very personal.
Terry, you said you had one other God conversation you
(32:33):
wanted to share. Well, yeah, a few years later
when we had out of this came a book called the Family Blessing
Guide book about speaking words of life to our those we love the
most and how blessing is not actually a prayer.
It's something instituted numbers, which you're standing
on behalf of God and speaking his words into people's lives.
(32:56):
But I was on a boat. I we were doing 3 weeks of
ministry in the Caribbean, whichwas nice, but it was everyday
personal ministry and teaching. That's the kind of schedule I
used to to keep as kind of nuts.But I was still trying to prove
myself. I was a pastor and I was going
to these wonderful countries andI wanted to prove I was working
(33:16):
hard. And then one of the days was
cancelled and somebody sent me out in a boat ride and I'm on a
boat, warm, beautiful water, Caribbean beaches.
And I heard the Lord say you've been working hard and I plan
this day off for you. And I'm like, oh great, guilt
free. I'm glad.
But then like I wasn't praying at this time.
I'm sitting there with my feet dangling in the water looking at
(33:37):
sea turtles and I just heard Godsay since to remember the day
David was born, which is my eldest son, first child.
I said yes, I don't this doesn'thappen very often.
OK, that not this clear this kind of conversation, but this
is just like you and I are having a conversation.
I said yes Lord, I remember and he said, do you remember the joy
(33:59):
to set? Do you remember the joy he
brought to you? And I pictured that.
Yeah. I was crazy happy.
And I said yeah. And then the Lord said that's
what you do for me. That was it.
But then I realised what he was saying is you don't have to work
this hard. Make me happy.
You're my boy. I created you.
(34:20):
When you got born again, I was so happy.
Heaven rejoiced. There's rejoicing in heaven over
one Sinner that repents. He's like, chill out.
You're my son. You know, you, you, you, you got
this revelation, but now you're running so hard with it, kind of
with your old lifestyle habits and you still need to just chill
out and be be my son. And that's one of the greatest
(34:43):
moments of hearing God in in my life.
And there's been some pretty profound ones since.
Yeah, wow, what a beautiful story of healing, Terry, and
ministering so beautifully out of that place.
Now God's just expanding your ministry and doing some
beautiful things for our listeners.
I I, I, I am wondering just people who have been challenged
or inspired by your story, what advice would you give as someone
(35:09):
who comes, who's listening and he's ready to say God search me,
continue to bring depths of healing to my heart.
What would be your admonition? Two things right away.
First, go read Psalm 139 all theway up to verse 26 and you know,
get get your get your blue letter Bible or your new
(35:30):
American standard or your study Bible.
Test what I'm saying and you'll see what it says way of pain,
but insert way of pain in there and then pray it and then and,
and then listen. Get out piece of paper, journal,
iPad, whatever it is, That's onething.
But maybe first, even before that and, and, and start
listening to God's voice for relationship, not just task and
(35:54):
trust those insertional thoughts.
Don't get into analysis of paralysis or paralysis of
analysis. Don't overthink it.
Trust the thought that comes to your mind in that quiet place of
listening and then share it withsomebody.
So the more you share it, the more it will it will rewrite the
script in your brain. Yeah.
And I think what you've highlighted that it's a process
(36:15):
of rewiring, isn't it, of reorienting?
Yeah. Yeah, it is a journey, but for
those who are courageous enough to pray those kind of prayers,
God's going to take you into a real place of freedom and
healing. And you watch as your life
becomes a vehicle of blessing for others, which I think we see
in your experience. Terry, thank you so much for
(36:39):
sharing your story, being so vulnerable.
I appreciate that. And I really believe it's going
to resonate with lots of people who are listening.
I encourage you to keep listening and open up your heart
to God as Terry has. And, and may you find freedom
and joy in that place. Terry, thank you again.
We've just loved having you on the podcast.
It's been privilege. Anyone who's interested in your
(37:02):
ministry or your coaching transition, your emotional
healing materials, where do theygo to find you?
There's only one website now because a lot of what we do is
under the radar in restricted access nations, but you can go
to exchangezone.ca is a website and you can find our materials
there, Exchange zone.ca. Beautiful.
(37:25):
Thanks again, Terry. It's been great to have you.
Thanks for listening to God Conversations with Tanya Harris.
Don't miss the next episode by subscribing to the show on your
favourite podcast app. And remember, the Holy Spirit
was given so we could all hear God's voice.
It was never meant to be a one way conversation.
Good conversations with Tanya Harris.
Let me ask you that question. What does God tell?
Well, you know, Thunder Light isMother Teresa.
Someone asked her. When did God speak to you?
And she said whenever he wants. So essentially the Bible is a
collection of God conversations if you like.
I had a vision. Of a car accident and I'm
sitting on the couch thinking why have I just.
(00:21):
Seen this? How could I know if God was
speaking to me? How could I know that that dream
or that thought was actually just me thinking about how I
said the bad? Jesus said we'd recognise his
voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation. Have you ever prayed for
(00:42):
something in your life and God has answered in a completely
different way? Pastor Terry Bone was praying
for all the problems of the church he'd just been appointed
to when God answered with a vision that would completely
change his heart. Hi and welcome to the God
Conversations podcast. My name is Tanya Harris and I'm
a pastor, practical theologian, author and the founding director
(01:05):
of God Conversations, a ministrythat equips you to recognise and
respond to God's voice. Our show today is all about
hearing God for emotional healing, and it has to be.
I have to say it's one of my favourite God Conversations,
partly because our guest shares so honestly and openly from his
own experience and that this hasmeant he can pass on that same
(01:28):
ministry to others. Terry Bone is from Ontario,
Canada and after 20 or so years pastoring a church, now has a
ministry as a transition pastor and a consultant for many
different churches. He's authored 2 books and he's
also involved in overseas missions.
He has a passion for the Holy Spirit and that's how we
(01:49):
connected. He even gives a plug for my
book. You're going to love this
conversation, and I know it's going to challenge you to give
God permission to work in your own heart.
At least I pray that to be so. We'll play the interview in just
a moment, but just want to say aquick hi to all our listeners,
particularly any new ones hailing from Canada.
(02:11):
I had the privilege of teaching some Canadians online a few
months back and a visit there quite a few times.
So I just love how God connects us with the right people around
at the right time, no matter where they're from.
And don't forget, those who are not new to the podcast, please
give us a rating on iTunes or onSpotify.
Give us a review. It helps us to get this message
(02:33):
out there so people know about the podcast.
And also don't forget that you can subscribe to our fortnightly
updates at the God Conversationswebsites at any time.
They come out every couple of weeks.
They give you an idea of what's up in terms of new podcasts and
articles and videos so you'll never miss an episode.
And one more thing, the big newsfor us is that just this month,
(02:58):
the time of recording, at least the church who hears God's
voice, we talk about this in theinterview, has just come out on
audio. It's been out in two years on
Kindle and in hard copy. And now for all you lovers of
listening, it's available on Audible and I actually do the
reading, so you'll get to hear my voice, which is always a lot
(03:20):
of fun. In fact, when I did the actual
recording, you know, after a year of the book being out or
so, I went through and did the recording and noticed there was
about 15 errors in the book. So it's amazing what you pick up
when you read something out loudin spite of all the editing.
So the Audible version is spot on.
(03:41):
Anyway, enjoy. But for now, I'd like to
introduce you to Terry Bone as we talk about hearing God for
emotional healing. So good to have you Terry on the
podcast Welcome to God Conversations.
Oh I can't wait, that's one of my favourite topics.
Now we've been connecting. I think we connected a few
(04:03):
months ago. Wasn't it through a mutual
friend Who gave you my book? That's true lady named Heather,
who's on the board of our ministry and a good friend told
me that I would benefit from reading this book by someone she
had met once at a conference andI started in I don't read that
many Christian books. I love history and stories and
(04:26):
biographies and this I, I openedyour book God Conversations with
a very low expectations that I would get through it.
But I was halfway through that book before I knew it because I
just kept saying, yeah, that's how I that's what I believe.
That's a great way to say that. It's such a blessing to hear
that. I think people who've
(04:46):
experienced the Spirit, you know, I think it was the church
who hears God's voice, is articulating what we've
experienced a little bit and so it resonates with people.
But Terry, you have such an interesting story and such an
interesting mission. You're from Canada, but you also
are involved in all sorts of spiritual and emotional health
(05:07):
teaching as well as transition coaching and missions.
It's a really interesting mix, ministry mix.
And I wonder for those of you, for our audience who is
obviously beyond Canada as well,tell us a little bit about
yourself. Tell us a little of the Terry
Bone story. How did you get to be doing what
you are doing now? Wow, that's a, it's a, it's a
(05:30):
long history, long story. I I got saved in the Jesus
Revolution days and I came from a very nominal church
background. My parents would party on a
Saturday night and send us to Sunday school and church on a
Sunday morning. You know, we'll stay home, you
go. And once in a while we all
(05:52):
dressed up and went as a family.But it meant nothing to me.
But I was fascinated when it wasactually a runaway teen came to
our home and we were sitting there in the living room before
her parents came to pick her up.And she said to me, I actually
have a relationship with Jesus and he talks to me and I talked
(06:13):
to him. And it just blew my mind.
And something rose up in me. I thought, oh, imagine that to
really be able to talk to God. Well, that was just one of the
markers along the way. But I soon also became a
Christian. And for me it was a process that
led to one night, one decision. It was a Friday night, 11:30 PM,
(06:37):
and the next morning I knew as aChristian and I never, I never
varied from that. But it was my choice and my
family actually wasn't in favourof it.
They were worried, thought I wasin a cult.
I was a little too enthusiastic,a little too willing to talk
about it. But here's The thing is that my
relationship with God was alwayslike a personal relationship.
(07:01):
There was no religion to learn or unlearn.
It was just Jesus loves me, He saved me, He's my saviour, He's
benevolent, He's a friend, and Iwant to hear his voice.
And you know, so at first I looked for signs.
I didn't know any better, so I would ask God, when I go out to
(07:22):
pray, I want the clouds to move and I want to see the moon.
And then when I come back in, I want the clouds to go back in.
I didn't know how to hear his voice.
And I asked for signs. And it's kind of like when
people are boating, you know, when people are in boats, you
see another boat. You always wave.
Yes, there's something about it.Oh, there's a boat, you know,
like if you're walking in the street, maybe not.
(07:44):
But when you're in a boat, you wave.
And it was kind of like that. I was like, I'm waving at God,
wanting him to wave back at me. That's me.
That's what you do when you're not close to someone or you
don't know how to speak to them or your two boats passing
quickly. And so I started out asking for
signs. And God was so good, he would
(08:04):
often do what I was asking. But within a year or two, I
really felt I needed to start hearing his voice.
And the two big areas were career and life partner.
I'm around 20 years old and I sat under a tree for four hours
and said, I'm going to hear God.And four hours later I had one
word, wait. And I thought, now what do I do
with that so that I'm not going to do nothing.
(08:26):
So I went and started computer career because I was asking
Lord, do I go into ministry or do I go into business career?
So I went into a business career, got married.
And that's another God story, how he showed me who I should be
married to. And then 12 years later, well,
so I had a computer career, computer repairman back in the
(08:47):
days. I mean, this is so long ago.
One of my repair tools was a hammer.
Try that on your MacBook Pro Computers were a lot bigger in
those days. Then I went into systems
software and application software.
And then God called me into ministry out of that when I was
young, married with a couple of kids, and him Pastor was
(09:09):
pastoring for almost 20 years. And then God spoke to me again
to give it all up and go travel.And part of that's missions and
part of that's helping leaders. So there's been, there's been
like 4 transitions in my life where there was, there was no
way to know without God talking to me.
And each time it was different, but each time it was clear.
(09:31):
And here we are today, the international ministry of
Bangladesh, Nepal, other countries where we have workers
that we we fund ourselves and wehelp leaders with reaching the
least reached, most vulnerable. And here in Canada, I do
leadership coaching. So that's a lot.
That's where we are at this point, loving it.
Beautiful. I know some of your work
(09:53):
involves transition coaching, which is helping churches
transition. I think change is something that
we all find very difficult, isn't it?
And sometimes we want the quick fix, but it does take time to
move from one season to the next.
And obviously you've had a few of those experiences, Terry.
Yeah, in this culture today witheverything movement so fast, the
only thing permanent is change. Yeah, even more so of late as
(10:15):
well. So, and I love your passion for
the Holy Spirit. We've been talking about what is
God doing in the church and whatis God doing in Canada and more
broadly. But you specialised particularly
in this area of emotional and spiritual healing.
And I think, you know, people have become a lot more aware
about the importance of emotional intelligence, self
(10:36):
awareness and health, and not just in our physical bodies, but
in our mental bodies. So I think this area is so
crucial in this space and there's a lot of help out there,
but we wanted to focus a little bit on how does God bring
emotional health? What does the Spirit do to bring
emotional health? How does God communicate into
(10:57):
this area? So I wonder if you can just give
us a little bit of an overview. How is God's voice connected to
emotional healing? Well, you know this.
I am so glad that we're talking about this because if I drill
down deeper at those Inflexion points in my life, it was always
trying to find direction, you know, asking God for His will,
(11:21):
His choice, His leading. And I, I became pretty
accustomed to that through yearsof practise on a regular basis.
But I would not be very good at all at hearing God's voice for
the search me, O God, and know my anxious thoughts.
(11:41):
Try me and, and, and see if there's any hurtful way in me.
I wasn't very good at that. And frankly, I didn't want to go
there, but I got cornered because so I had to go there.
And then I began to hear God's voice as a Searchlight
(12:02):
spotlight, shining his light on my motives, my thinking
patterns, my unrecognised desireand drivers of my behaviour.
Because what we see above the surface like an iceberg is our
behaviour and our emotions and our public identity that we
carefully craft and curate all the time depending on the
(12:24):
situation we're in. But what's driving the
behaviours is our deepest beliefs.
What's driving the emotions is our deepest desires.
And what's below all of them is our true identity in Christ.
And what keeps us from getting down there often is a vault
where we've locked in all sorts of guardian lies and things like
that. I had no idea of this.
(12:44):
I had no idea of this. I, you know, call myself a type
A and driven and felt I was I was that was as a character
strength. But when we went to our second
church, so God made it clear that we should go in the
ministry and it was all big happy time because we were asked
to come on staff at our home church.
We didn't have to move and we loved the people.
(13:04):
They loved us. They gave us they gave us this
wonderful send off when we left the first church.
We've been there 10 years. And they put the they took an
evening service and turned the whole thing into a tribute to us
with skits and testimonies and afarewell.
And they lined up to shake her hand.
So I had this misconception thatI was a nice guy.
(13:26):
And then we went to this town called Grimsby, not Grimsby,
England, Grimsby, Canada. But the word has the town name,
has the word Grimm in it, and that became prophetic for us.
So we went to a church where they didn't tell us till we got
there that they were in big trouble, financial trouble.
(13:47):
They had almost $1,000,000 in debt at 12%.
They had 90 people. They built a new big building.
They couldn't afford it. The board was fighting.
This previous pastor had quit without notice.
There was a man who was schizophrenic in the church who
thought he was a prophet. He'd interrupt the services and
start prophesying against me. It was a gong show.
(14:09):
It was like a a sitcom with, youknow, but it wasn't funny to me
then. And my wife is a pastor's
daughter and she never wanted tobe in the ministry until God
spoke to us and said, leave the career, computer career.
And so when we got here to Grimsby, she turned to me one
day and she said, see, I told you this is what the ministry
(14:30):
will get you into. So I had a gift.
I think it's important. I want to get to your question,
but how I got there it was. It was so hard because I didn't
get there because one day I wokeup and said, oh, I know how to
hear God's voice. Maybe I'll find out everything
that's wrong in my heart and gethealed today.
But I was given something that Inow see as a gift that I never
saw as a gift, and that's desperation.
I was backed in a corner, couldn't quit, couldn't afford
(14:53):
to quit. I was out of date and computers.
I had no options and I began to cry out to God.
Well. Can we just stop there for a
moment, Terry, because I think that's instructive.
It is true that if we, if life is going great and things are
going fine, we have no need to say God search me, change me,
heal me, touch me, do we? And so we motor on automatically
(15:14):
by default using the same habitsof behaviour.
And it seems to be when we hit that crisis state or that place
of desperation for you or whatever that might be, we then
find ourselves, I don't know, giving Holy Spirit permission
to, to dig a bit deeper because I, I think that prayer, search
(15:36):
me God, that, you know, put thatspotlight on my heart.
Dig a bit deeper is a very braveprayer.
And we tend not to pray it unless we are desperate.
So that doesn't surprise me thatyou found yourself in that
place. I think that God uses those
situations to bring us there, and that's when they do become a
(15:58):
gift. Exactly.
And since you mentioned it, we'll start kind of the end of
the process and just give some key points on the way through.
But one of the things I realisedalong the way, because our
denomination, they're like, oh, your past is all under the
blood, meaning, you know, Jesus taking care of it and forget it,
(16:21):
it's gone. It's past like don't dig it up.
You don't need to do those things just to be filled with
the spirit and move on. And so a couple of things
happened. There is, as I realised, it's
not, it's not always under the blood.
Sometimes it's under the cork and that is it's bottled up
inside, you know. Yeah, sure.
I was saved in the sense I came from darkness to light and I'm
(16:42):
no longer under the penalty of sin.
One day I'll no longer be under the presence of sin when I get a
new body and I'm in his presence.
But right now I'm being delivered on a regular basis
from the power of sin as my soulcontinually disengages from old
lies, habits, family patterns, ungodly beliefs, and as as the
(17:03):
light of his word through the power of His presence
evangelises the dark areas of myheart.
I didn't have that as my theology at that time, but I
realised even the way we interpret scripture, because
Psalm 139 is a poem and it says that God knows everything starts
off saying any word. You know it before it leaves my
(17:24):
mouth. The darkness not dark to you.
You saw me when I was inside my mother's womb.
It's it's basically saying God sees and knows everything before
behind within he knows it. And then the response is search
me, O God and and my heart try me and know my anxious thoughts
and see if there be what? What would you?
How would you fill in the blanks?
(17:44):
See if there be any. Wicked weigh in me, I think.
Got it. Everybody says that, but that's
not what the that's not what theoriginal language says.
It actually says way of pain. And that's that's not up for
grabs. That's not an interpretation.
That's what the phrase is, but we have interpreted it based on
our theology. And if you break that out
(18:05):
without going too deep, it says see if there's any something way
and lead me in the way everlasting.
So it's it's like a poetic, it'slike a couplet or you know the
contrast. So he's saying, search me to see
if there's any way of pain. In other words, is there any way
(18:25):
that I'm currently behaving or believing that's based on the
pain of my past and replace it with the way everlasting.
In other words, the truth about me in your eyes and the truth
about who you are. And, and somehow this came upon
me like a truth bomb, that a lotof my life was being driven from
(18:47):
the lies I'd collected and the fears I acquired from the pain
of my past. And so the Holy Spirit began to
directly speak to me about it ina revelatory way, and I in ways
that I think are unusual, so that I could understand it,
never forget it, and help teach others and lead them through it.
(19:07):
So can you give us an example, Terry?
OK so it starts here. It starts with with a vision I
had while I was praying. So I'm praying and we prayed and
prayed and prayed and prayed forthe church. 3 morning prayer
meetings a week. We pray before Sunday after
Sunday, Tuesday night women, Thursday morning men and Tuesday
(19:29):
morning like we were praying allthe time, passionate.
And one day I was laying on the Pew on a Tuesday morning, just
laying there by myself and I wasdepressed about some things that
were going on or discouraged. And I had what I'll say an open
eyed vision. But think of when you're waking
up in the morning and you're mixing up what you're actually
(19:50):
seeing with what your mind's seeing.
There was no, this wasn't something like John a revelation
or Ezekiel or Daniel. It's just mental pictures.
Very, very quick and very simple.
But I saw the roof of the churchreplaced by stained glass Dome.
And in one of the stained glass panels, my name was in it.
(20:10):
And as as the picture zoomed in,I heard these words in my mind.
That's the church you're trying to build.
And you know, when God wants to tell us what to do and how to
behave, he could write it. He could write us a note or he
could write it on 2 tablets. He could put it in a law.
But when he wants to communicatehis heart, that's where the
(20:32):
dreams and visions come in. And this is the first sermon
ever preached the New Testament church.
Everyone can have a dream or a vision or hear the Holy Spirit
because God wants to write theirlaw, His law, on their hearts,
and that's His language of the heart.
I love that God is very creativein the way God communicates.
I am super keen to understand what that vision meant for your
(20:53):
emotional healing, Terry. We are talking to Pastor Terry
Bone all the way from Ontario inCanada about hearing God's voice
and emotional healing. We'll be back to find out more
in just a moment. What does God sound like?
How do I know it's Him? They're the questions I asked
(21:15):
myself at 21. I'd read stories of God speaking
throughout the Bible, but I'd never heard His voice for
myself. So I decided to try it out.
Speak Lord, and if you make it really clear, I'll do whatever
you say. My new book, God Conversations,
is all about what happened when I heard God's voice.
It won't tell you how to hear itas much as it will show you, As
(21:38):
Jesus promised, we can all recognise His voice and know it
enough to follow. Buy it now at
godconversations.com. So, Terry, you've told us about
this interesting vision with thestained glass window on the
rooftop of the church with your name on it.
What on earth does that mean? Well, I heard the words, this is
(21:59):
the church you're trying to build and I just began to weep
because I could see God's heart saying you are using my calling
to make a name for yourself. It was a metaphor of making a
name for myself and like a zip file.
It was like a zip file. The understanding of that just
went right in and I'll never forget it.
(22:20):
So it's 30 years ago now and I just wept and I said, oh man,
I'm I'm trying to prove myself and there is a reason for that.
I had been kind of word cursed. I'm way out of the other church
by somebody who's saying, ah, you had it easy here.
Let's see if you can make it. And I had in my.
Heart not, I think. I'm going to, really, I'm going
to show the world. Yeah, but, and I also think
(22:42):
that's a really common issue in people's hearts.
We're always trying to prove ourselves.
We're trying to prove our value and our performance, aren't we?
Yeah, people could. And whether it's a church or a
business or a career, very similar.
Please go ahead. So.
Hearing the Father's voice like Jesus did.
You're my beloved son and whom I'm well pleased.
Isn't that amazing that that wasn't a ministry plan on the
(23:06):
day of his baptism? OK, now you're baptised.
You fulfilled all righteousness.I want you to go here and here
and here. The first thing he needed before
he did anything was an affirmation from the Father.
So my father died just before I went into ministry.
He was never a Christian, so I was missing the affirmation of
my father. And my Heavenly Father started
to show up and show me that and then begin to speak the
(23:29):
affirmation. So I'll tell you two other ones
quick. So let me just.
Pause you, right? Let me just pause you right
there, Terry. You just just thought when you
receive that vision and you realise what it was, I mean,
it's kind of a rebuke. Oh yeah.
How did that? Make you feel doubt if there was
an attractive. Right.
Yeah. And I think that's super
important because in this emotional healing process, God's
(23:53):
going to pick up on the dirt, you know, and the lies and the
untruths in our hearts, and he'sgoing to shine that light.
And that can be very confronting.
But I think God does it in a very beautiful, kind, gentle way
that arrests us, doesn't it thenpropels us into change.
But because I think it's fear that stops us.
(24:13):
What if God sees something ugly and something toxic?
And what if I'm not good enough?But I I love the way that you've
couched it because it's positively oriented towards
freedom. Oh yeah, you, you hit the nail
on the head there. It's fear.
Fear. Fear is the counter to love, if
I can say it that way. It's it's like there's only two
(24:35):
motivations. There's only two drivers.
At the very, very root is fear or love.
Fear takes us into well, I better steal because I'm afraid
I won't have enough or I better,you know, I'm jealous because
I'm afraid. So fear is that deep, deep root
to many, many behaviours and it's it's healing.
(24:56):
Its counterpart is love. So the next time I had I had AI
had a 22nd dream before I woke up a few weeks later.
Only a few weeks later and I sawa knotted ball of string.
I saw the scripture be angry andsin not like little vignettes. 5
second vignettes. And then I saw one of my deacons
without a shirt on and brown pants walking around the
sanctuary. I woke up and I went, oh, I know
(25:17):
what God's saying. And I again heard in my mind,
I'm going to start dealing. Your heart is like a knotted
ball of string and I'm going to start meddling with it.
Unravelling. It and you're going to get
angry. Don't sin.
I'm getting I'm going for it. And then I thought, what's this
thing about the Deacon? I thought, well, whatever.
So I walked over to the church 5minutes away to pray it through.
Walked into the sanctuary 7:00 on a Tuesday morning.
(25:40):
And there's the Deacon walking around the sanctuary by himself
with brown pants and no shirt on.
And I said to him, Sean, and he goes, oh, pastor, did I offend
you? And I said no, I just saw this
in my bedroom. Oh, that's freaky.
That's so. I know, but what was it?
It was my father saying hello, Mr systems Analyst.
Good morning. This your heavenly Father.
(26:02):
I know everything about you. I know what's going to happen
today and when I give you a dream or a vision, it's accurate
yes. That was just getting through my
my, my math brain to say see howmuch to trust the other things
that had no way to verify. And so two weeks later, I was in
a powerful prayer meeting and I again saw that knot of ball of
(26:23):
string. And this time a hand came and
took out one of the knots and ithad A tag that sent fear.
And for 30 minutes I was on the floor while the Holy Spirit
spoke to me and took me back to a childhood memory and said,
remember this and remember that.Remember how your family laughed
at you and this and this. That's where the fear began.
And you've been a control freak all your life because you're
(26:45):
trying to control and never be in a scary situation again.
It was at the very root of wherefear had started in my life.
And even as I share it now, it'sso powerful, it's so gracious
that the Holy Spirit would be a counsellor.
Yeah. Yeah.
I was really messed up. I was a pastor.
I was full of the Spirit. I haven't shared with you, but I
(27:07):
need to share this for the sake of one of the listeners.
I was starting to have a double life.
I was comforting myself with some sinful behaviour at that
point, just starting. I wasn't unfaithful to my wife
in the sense of being with any other person, but I was starting
to have an imaginary life and and God arrested that and said
I'm going to deal with this if you'll let me.
(27:28):
And it broke the back of it and turned our ministry around.
I began to hear God's voice, prophetic words.
Our church began to be known as a place where the Holy Spirit
was moving. The church went four times and
the growth, the finances turned around.
It was absolutely the turning point.
Many other steps there where we became known for a church that
(27:48):
welcomed the Holy Spirit and where people were getting, I'll
say, delivered from their fears and their sins.
It really was a turning point. That's profound, Terry, I think
and. One more yeah, 10 years later.
On a boat? Let's just sit here for a
moment, if that's all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I think for our listeners listening in, it's
(28:12):
kind of it's, you know, your journey is unique, but the
pathway is quite common to us. And I think you've just
highlighted the consequences of what happens when we cooperate
with the Holy Spirit and what happens when we don't.
Because we start to disconnect ourselves and have those double
lives. We start to behave out of a
(28:34):
certain external motivation or expectation, but the inside of
our hearts are broken. I love that way of understanding
Psalm 139, the way of wicked, the way of pain, because sin,
even wickedness, is actually produces pain.
It produces the inability to receive love and be healed by
(28:56):
love. So I think you've identified
something that is common, and I'm astounded by the fact that
it was so clear in your story that when you began to
experience the healing emotionally, the impact that it
had on your ministry. It's it's, it's phenomenal.
(29:16):
I mean, I couldn't have manufactured this.
I, I can't, I couldn't have madeit happen.
I can't today, but it, it gave God permission to do the same
kind of thing in in the people and we began to see it in great
rapidly. People would get in touch with
the source of their pain, the source of their dysfunction,
(29:40):
dysfunction. And we began to experience the
Holy Spirit as a counsellor. Now if you have a counsellor,
they have to talk to you. You know, like Jesus said, he,
the Holy Spirit's coming. He'll remind you, he'll teach
you, he'll counsel you who will guide you.
All of those are speaking roles.And yet we, we've, we've
relegated it to waving it the boat that passes by getting a
(30:01):
sign. But this is intimate and and
it's our own fears and junk in our heart that keeps us from
hearing and, and, and to just want his voice for guidance.
That's not a friendship. No, you know, it's not.
And when, when he becomes our friend, Jesus said, you know, I
speak to his friends. And then he began to unpack all
(30:22):
that. It's it's interesting.
There then the guidance is is easy.
Correct. Yes, exactly.
You know, it's interesting to methat you came to this church in
Grimsby and then you're having all these prayer meetings for
this area of ministry and the finances and this and that and
this and that, and God goes, well, you've got to knot it up
(30:42):
heart. And so I'm going to knot the
heart. And it's like, let me see how I
answer that prayer. I don't look at all the
externals. I go straight for the jugular
and and I think that's what happens a lot.
We, we, we're praying for our external circumstances helps
change this family member, change this housing situation,
change my finances and God goes,Oh, look, actually let me, let
(31:06):
me put the spotlight on that wayof pain in your heart and let me
heal that and then watch what happens after he goes.
We, we, we, we minister out of who we are.
And so the fullness of our humanbeing rather than a human doing.
And I, I, I love that, but I, I think it's a shock at first,
isn't it? Because we want God just to
(31:27):
patch everything up on the outside.
Oh my goodness, it's, it's, it'sa shock.
It is. The shocking thing is how blind
I was. The shock of it is really, how
could I not see all this? How could I live and teach
without seeing this? But it is like a conversion
(31:50):
experience when we get in touch with the unseen drivers below
the surface. And the Holy Spirit is the best
one. He's a genius, and he knows
where to go and what order to make the revelation.
Because we can't. We can't, can't have everything
about us revealed at once. We couldn't handle it.
(32:11):
We couldn't process it. And he just knows what path to
take and what we're ready for. And I totally believe that.
I'm convinced that when God knows we're serious about this,
he becomes seriously engaged in this conversation with us.
Yeah. Oh, I love that.
It's very individual, very personal.
Terry, you said you had one other God conversation you
(32:33):
wanted to share. Well, yeah, a few years later
when we had out of this came a book called the Family Blessing
Guide book about speaking words of life to our those we love the
most and how blessing is not actually a prayer.
It's something instituted numbers, which you're standing
on behalf of God and speaking his words into people's lives.
(32:56):
But I was on a boat. I we were doing 3 weeks of
ministry in the Caribbean, whichwas nice, but it was everyday
personal ministry and teaching. That's the kind of schedule I
used to to keep as kind of nuts.But I was still trying to prove
myself. I was a pastor and I was going
to these wonderful countries andI wanted to prove I was working
(33:16):
hard. And then one of the days was
cancelled and somebody sent me out in a boat ride and I'm on a
boat, warm, beautiful water, Caribbean beaches.
And I heard the Lord say you've been working hard and I plan
this day off for you. And I'm like, oh great, guilt
free. I'm glad.
But then like I wasn't praying at this time.
I'm sitting there with my feet dangling in the water looking at
(33:37):
sea turtles and I just heard Godsay since to remember the day
David was born, which is my eldest son, first child.
I said yes, I don't this doesn'thappen very often.
OK, that not this clear this kind of conversation, but this
is just like you and I are having a conversation.
I said yes Lord, I remember and he said, do you remember the joy
(33:59):
to set? Do you remember the joy he
brought to you? And I pictured that.
Yeah. I was crazy happy.
And I said yeah. And then the Lord said that's
what you do for me. That was it.
But then I realised what he was saying is you don't have to work
this hard. Make me happy.
You're my boy. I created you.
(34:20):
When you got born again, I was so happy.
Heaven rejoiced. There's rejoicing in heaven over
one Sinner that repents. He's like, chill out.
You're my son. You know, you, you, you, you got
this revelation, but now you're running so hard with it, kind of
with your old lifestyle habits and you still need to just chill
out and be be my son. And that's one of the greatest
(34:43):
moments of hearing God in in my life.
And there's been some pretty profound ones since.
Yeah, wow, what a beautiful story of healing, Terry, and
ministering so beautifully out of that place.
Now God's just expanding your ministry and doing some
beautiful things for our listeners.
I I, I, I am wondering just people who have been challenged
or inspired by your story, what advice would you give as someone
(35:09):
who comes, who's listening and he's ready to say God search me,
continue to bring depths of healing to my heart.
What would be your admonition? Two things right away.
First, go read Psalm 139 all theway up to verse 26 and you know,
get get your get your blue letter Bible or your new
(35:30):
American standard or your study Bible.
Test what I'm saying and you'll see what it says way of pain,
but insert way of pain in there and then pray it and then and,
and then listen. Get out piece of paper, journal,
iPad, whatever it is, That's onething.
But maybe first, even before that and, and, and start
listening to God's voice for relationship, not just task and
(35:54):
trust those insertional thoughts.
Don't get into analysis of paralysis or paralysis of
analysis. Don't overthink it.
Trust the thought that comes to your mind in that quiet place of
listening and then share it withsomebody.
So the more you share it, the more it will it will rewrite the
script in your brain. Yeah.
And I think what you've highlighted that it's a process
(36:15):
of rewiring, isn't it, of reorienting?
Yeah. Yeah, it is a journey, but for
those who are courageous enough to pray those kind of prayers,
God's going to take you into a real place of freedom and
healing. And you watch as your life
becomes a vehicle of blessing for others, which I think we see
in your experience. Terry, thank you so much for
(36:39):
sharing your story, being so vulnerable.
I appreciate that. And I really believe it's going
to resonate with lots of people who are listening.
I encourage you to keep listening and open up your heart
to God as Terry has. And, and may you find freedom
and joy in that place. Terry, thank you again.
We've just loved having you on the podcast.
It's been privilege. Anyone who's interested in your
(37:02):
ministry or your coaching transition, your emotional
healing materials, where do theygo to find you?
There's only one website now because a lot of what we do is
under the radar in restricted access nations, but you can go
to exchangezone.ca is a website and you can find our materials
there, Exchange zone.ca. Beautiful.
(37:25):
Thanks again, Terry. It's been great to have you.
Thanks for listening to God Conversations with Tanya Harris.
Don't miss the next episode by subscribing to the show on your
favourite podcast app. And remember, the Holy Spirit
was given so we could all hear God's voice.
It was never meant to be a one way conversation.
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