June 30, 2025 • 40 mins
When someone says the word prophet, what do you think of? The label conjures up all sorts of images – a robed figure gazing into a crystal ball or a wild man dressed in camel hair, eating wild insects and raving about the end of the world!
Prophets have always been around – in the biblical tradition and beyond it. Among the Hebrews, prophets played a key role in expressing God’s will for the nation, but something significant happened to their role after Jesus came. There’s still prophets in the Church today, but what do they do and how do we know who they are? How are they different from the prophets in Old Covenant or prophets outside the biblical tradition?
On this show, we’re talking about the prophet’s role in the contemporary church with a globally recognised prophet based out of South Africa: Andre Bronkhorst.
You’ll hear about:
- Andre’s surprising initial encounter with God’s voice as he was contemplating ending his life at age 16. God seemed to say the exact opposite of what Andre felt he deserved. The experience changed his life and set him on course to learn more about the voice of Holy Spirit.
- God’s redemptive approach to communication. God speaks to awake our potential and the fullness of who we were created to be. God sees in us what we can’t see in ourselves!
- Andre’s calling to be a prophet which was sparked by a divinely co-ordinated ministry appointment.
- How Andre has been used of God to minister in churches that have previously shut down prophetic ministry. Andre shares how God has used him to introduce an approach that promotes safety and maturity.
- Andre’s understanding of a prophet and how they function in the church today. The primary difference between the Old and New Covenant centres on the coming of Jesus. Jesus modelled prophetic ministry (Hebrews 1:1-3) and initiated an era where the main purpose of prophecy is to strengthen our relationship with God. The main task of the prophet then is to equip the saints to hear the voice of God and follow (rather than reflect on world events) (Ephesians 4:11,12).
In Jesus’ day, there was a lot of political events that took place, but Jesus never got involved with that. He never gave his opinion. That’s the model that we follow. There’s going to be wars and calamities. But our focus (as a prophet) is to get people back into God’s assignment. To help fix your eyes on Jesus.
- Specifically, Andre sees his purpose in helping people identify how God speaks to them and help them to walk in that. Andre tells of the danger of prophets who draw on Old Testament models so that people come to him to hear God for them:
I love to prophesy, but it’s far greater to train and equip people to hear God’s voice personally. I’m very careful not to become sort of mediator.
- The problem with the tendency of prophets to give a “word for the year.” Andre reflects on how this works if every church, community, nation is different.
- The false idea of the prophet’s role being to predict the future. Andre shows how God invites us to participate in his plan rather than speaking through fatalistic pronouncements.
As a New Testament prophet, we don’t give predictions – we give invitations.
- The model of the New Testament which points to the existence of prophets in every local church.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
God conversations with Tanya Harris, I think.
It was Mother Teresa and someoneasked her when does God speak to
you? And she said, whenever he wants.
How could I know if God was speaking to me?
And how could I know that that was actually just me thinking
about I just had some bad pizza?I just thought it was normal to
dream and have experiences. And she said to me, I actually
(00:21):
have a relationship with Jesus and he talks to me and it just
blew my mind. And then hearing the Lord speak
again very clearly and just saying this, this is where I've
called you to love and say. Jesus said we'd recognise his
voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation. When someone says the word
(00:42):
prophet, what do you think of The label can conjure up images
of a robed figure gazing into a crystal ball, or perhaps a
Wildman dressed in camel's hair eating insects and raving about
the end of the world. Prophets have always been around
in history, in the biblical tradition and beyond it.
(01:03):
Among the Hebrew people, prophets played a key role in
expressing God's will for the nation.
But something significant happened to their role after
Jesus came. In the church Today we have
prophets, but what do they do? How do we know who they are?
How should they function? Hi and welcome to the God
(01:24):
Conversations podcast. My name is Tanya Harris and I'm
a pastor, practical theologian, author, and the founding
director of God Conversations, aministry that equips you to
recognise and respond to God's voice.
Today we're talking all about the role of a New Covenant
prophet and we are privileged tohave an expert on the show to
(01:47):
talk about it. Now, I first met this guest in
Switzerland where I've just returned from, had an incredible
time apart from the nasty bug that I caught the week before in
Germany. They certainly know how to do
good. Strong bugs there because it
lingered, but I still was able to really enjoy my time.
Particularly, I loved ministering at the Swiss
(02:08):
Pentecostal Pastors Conference, the German speaking pastors in
Switzerland, and it was such a joy to meet the pastors there.
If any of you are listening to the show today, welcome.
You know, there's a real hunger for the Holy Spirit in the Swiss
churches and in the European churches at large.
And it was such an honour to be the first woman to minister at
that conference. I'm so thankful for the
(02:30):
privilege. But as I mentioned mentioned, we
have an expert on the show to talk all about the role of the
prophet in the church today. It's a really important
conversation that has a great impact on helping the people of
God recognise and respond to thevoice of God.
And this man is a globally recognised prophetic voice.
(02:50):
He has a passion for equipping and empowering the body of
Christ all the way from South Africa.
Welcome to the show, Andre Bronkhorst.
Andre, it is so great to have you on the God Conversations
podcast. I love it that we have a guest
from South Africa and the irony is that we met in Switzerland.
(03:11):
So that's a fun connection. Isn't so great to be with you at
Zoll House in Lucerne in Switzerland?
So welcome to the show. Why don't you tell a little bit
about your story? How did you come to be doing
what you are doing now? First of all, for the
opportunity, it was really wonderful to meet you in
(03:31):
Switzerland. I really enjoyed the fact that
you spoke English. You were the only speaker I
could listen to, didn't have to translate.
So it was great to sit in the sessions and and just listen to
your training sessions in, in this.
And yeah, we definitely have a very much the same flow.
So I enjoyed that your perspective on the prophetic, on
dreams and visions and how God speaks to us.
(03:54):
I really enjoyed that my story in in short, I had an encounter
at the age of 16 with the voice of God.
And to to me personally, the voice of God is really
predominantly, you know, the most important thing.
I really believe that every believer needs to hear the
voices of God. And so because of that encounter
(04:18):
that I had at the age of 16, I came to the end of my rope, as
the message translation says, atthe age of 16, I made so many
mistakes and I I got to a place where I wanted to commit
suicide, not continue with my life any any further at the age
of 16. And in that moment, God spoke to
(04:38):
me. I heard the audible voice of
God. And that voice really
transformed my life right there.I cried out to God and I said I
can't live without If I continueto live, I have to hear your
voice. And so the Lord took me on a
journey personally in recognising His voice and.
(05:00):
What did God say at that point, Andre?
Can I just jump in? What did God say at that point?
Yes, you can. So I actually wrote a book I was
testing in a book about, you know, everything.
But what happened is I, I made so many mistakes prior to, you
know, to that up until the age of 16.
And because of those mistakes, Iwas caught in the act.
(05:23):
And so I, I really threw away myfuture.
There was no hope. And I was sitting in my room and
just think of suicide is just nohope to face the world the next
day. And in that moment, God spoke to
me and he said to me, Andre, I am proud of you.
And I, as much as I wanted to accept that, I knew that, you
(05:49):
know, it wasn't me. My life was falling apart.
There was nothing to be proud of.
And and then the second thing that God said to me is he said,
Andre, I believe in you. And so this is really the words
that changed my life. I'm proud of you and I, I
believe in you. And that's how the journey
started. And I've I've tried to explain
(06:09):
to people that when God looks atus, he looks from a different
perspective. While we see our current season,
while we see our lives are falling apart, God really sees
our full potential. And that was what was happening
at that moment is I, I saw, I mean, the end of my ropes and
(06:29):
God saw the full potential of what I could become.
And that is what that's why God said I was proud of you and I
believe in you. And this is how that that
journey started. Because when God said to me, I
believe in you, I said, I mean, I, I, I, you obviously seeing
something that I don't see and also no one else can see at this
moment. And, and I want to get to know
(06:51):
that. And so help me to see what you
you see in me, but also in otherpeople.
It's so beautiful that God knowswhat to say to motivate us.
Isn't that true? And it's never shame or
condemnation. You know, look what you've done
never rubs your face in it but calls out of you.
God sees I just, I love that. So then you went on this journey
(07:14):
of learning to recognise God. Had you had a church background,
Andre? I did so I grew up in church,
but a very legalistic church. So grew up in a church, but I
always very works driven. So as a as a child, I felt
disqualified from having a relationship with God because I
(07:37):
couldn't do all the religious acts I asked.
I couldn't pray as long as they prayed, I couldn't follow those
routines. And as a child, I excluded
myself and I thought, well, you know, I know the scriptures are
the 10 church, but I was in church and I didn't have a
relationship with God. And and that was that encounter
(07:59):
really when I had that encounterat the age of 16.
And I said to God, just tell me,what do I need to do to hear
your voice? Do I need to pray more?
Do I need to fast? You know, all these things that
I'm disqualified of. I'll, I'll do it, But just tell
me, you know, what's the secret?What's the key?
And Lord really answered me and he said to me, you need to have
a relationship with me. And and that's the journey that
(08:22):
God then took me on and how to get to know him and really walk
with him in a relationship. So I mean that was while I was
attending church and and a spiritual church.
It's interesting, isn't it? We have a similar background in
some way. It's it's such a different
emphasis to have faith or a religion based on rules versus
(08:45):
relationship. And at the core of relationship
has to be two way communication.I think that's why it's so
important. So so then you went on the
journey of learning to recogniseGod's voice.
At what point did you feel that you were called to be a prophet?
You know, we a prophet is a big weighty term and today and it
(09:06):
has a whole lot of different understandings around it.
So tell us a little bit about your understanding and how you
came to understand your role. And so, so I started with that
journey and it's a, it was a eight year journey where God
trained me to hear his voice andGod really had to become a
(09:27):
father to me and take me step bystep and, and train, equip me,
you know, to, to know him. So because of that, it really
sparked the, the passion to train other people.
When you have an encounter, thenyou want everyone else to
experience that encounter. When you get healed, you want
everyone to be healed. When you whatever happens to
(09:47):
you, you want to share that. And So what really sparked it is
that encounter sparked somethingin, in my life where I just had
this desire that, you know, I don't want to do anything else
with my life. I just want to teach people and
train people to, to hear God's voice.
And so that was the journey thatthat I started, you know, to go
on. Then 10 years ago, the Lord
(10:09):
called me one morning I woke up and the Lord said to me, I'm
calling you to be a New Testament prophet.
And I, my first response is was I reject it.
I said to God, I don't want to be a prophet.
I just want to be Andre. I don't want the title.
I don't want to, you know, I shield away from that.
(10:32):
And so it was really difficult process for me personally to
accept that it was not somethingthat I wanted to do.
It was not something that I wanted to pursue and I had no
desire for that. And the Lord said to me, well,
what if that is what I want to call you to be?
Would you be that? And, and so in, in obedience, I
really responded and I said, God, I mean, I said, I'll, I'll
(10:55):
give you my life and, and whatever you need of me.
But I don't know what that means.
I don't know what a New Testament prophet means.
I've got no example of that. And, and in the same sense, the
Lord had to equip me and train me in exactly what that is and
what his heart is for, for the local church and also prophets,
you know, in, in this era. And so that happened 10 years
(11:16):
ago where God called me and I just said yes.
And when I said yes, the Lord said to me, I'm going to send
you to 40 different nations. And, and I'm going to send you
to the local church to equip thechurch.
And, you know, at that time, I haven't travelled at all.
(11:36):
I've never left South Africa. I've never been on a plane.
So when I said God, I mean, I don't have to go to 14 nations.
I can go to one. It doesn't have to be, you know,
whatever you require. And then things just started to
happen supernaturally. I was in a service on a
conference during that time and a pastor from from New York,
(11:58):
good friend of mine, now he was at the same conference, about
5000 people on the conference. And I'm standing in the worship
and the Lord is saying, can I send you?
Will you go? And I said, yes, wherever you
want to send me, I'll go. I'll do it.
And at that time, this man is onthe same conference.
And because of a bad experience in the church in New York, they
(12:22):
with, with the prophetic ministry or with the prophet,
they as a church decided that they would not allow prophetic
ministry or, or prophets in their church.
And so for quite some time they've not had anyone come.
And so he's on the same conference and he's standing
there in the worship and he's saying, God, I want to repent.
(12:42):
It's time to restore called the prophetic ministry in our church
and he's praying and calling outto God and he said God, but I
don't want a young man. I want you to send me someone
that's all that's mature, that'swell established in the word,
you know, that can come and and restore the prophetic in our
church. And that's exactly the same time
you're standing on the same conference.
(13:02):
And so he looks over to me on the conference, you know, and
the Lord says to him, that is the person that will do it.
So he walks over to me and he says, hi, my name is Chris,
would you come to my church in America?
And so I said to him, yeah, sure, I'll, I'll do it.
I'll come. Were you old enough, Andre?
(13:25):
If you wanted an older person, yes.
He's been a bit too young, I think.
Yeah, no, Dave. So he, so he, so he basically
invited me and I said yes. And then the service started and
after the service he came to me.He said, listen, I apologise.
You know, what's your name? I'm Chris.
And Are you sure you'll come? And don't you need to pray about
(13:47):
it? And I said to him, no God, God
spoke to me and he said I shouldgo.
And that was really, that's, that's really sparked the
restoration. So I went to America, to this
church that have not had a profit for many years and also
really bad experience. And over that weekend, God
really restored the church and, and that was what sparked it in
(14:10):
and where God said to me, this is what I'm calling you to do is
I'm going to send you. And this is what people don't
understand. You know, most of the churches
that I go today is not churches that embrace the prophetic.
It's churches that that are against the prophetic.
So my work is I I'm not loved everywhere and celebrated.
I go to places where. They So why do they why do they
(14:33):
invite you? So he so Chris, this this
pastor, they have not allowed the prophetic in their church
for about 10 years. And, and he repented to God and
they said, God, we need the fivefold back in our church and,
and we send us someone. And that's where he looked at me
and God said to him that, that that's the person that'll come
(14:54):
and do it. So this is churches who, when it
comes to the fivefold ministry, not just the prophets, but
actually, you know, the evangelist, the old fivefold
ministry that have just rejectedthat in, in the churches.
And so, so they've invited me to, to specifically to come and
to, to restore and speak on, on what the prophetic is really and
(15:15):
what the new decimate property is.
Yeah. To undo some of the damage.
Perhaps it has been done fast. That's so sad, but really great
that God is using you in that way.
And obviously you have a certainsense of safety that goes with
you that people would be able totrust you to come in if they've
had that history around them. Yes.
(15:38):
So what are you in a nutshell then?
Let's go back to the call of a New Testament prophet.
How would you describe that in general?
So that's the when you look at the prophet, the word prophet,
and we take the Old Testament prophet and the New Testament
prophet and we we look for similarities between the two.
(15:59):
When I train and teach in churches, I explain to them the
only thing that the New Testament and Old Testament
prophet have in common is the word prophet, nothing else.
They are completely different. They functioned in different
eras. So the Old Testament prophets
were predominantly the voice of God to people.
And I mean, this is God that wanted to to father Israel, that
(16:23):
wanted to be their God. And Israel rejected God and
said, no, you know, rather speak, you know, to Moses.
We don't want to, we don't want we don't want us, you to speak
to us directly. And and then God used to the
prophets predominantly in the Old Testament.
You know, every nation had sources, magicians, but Israel
had prophets and that got used in the Old Testament.
(16:47):
But then we stepped into the NewTestament and you know, Hebrews
chapter one verse 123 says in the past God spoke to our
ancestors to the prophets, but now he speaks to us through his
son. And so a new era started.
I call it era of the New Testament prophet.
(17:08):
And as in New Testament prophet,we do not look at the examples
or leadership of the Old Testament prophets.
We don't follow their styles, their ways.
They were up until a certain time.
So in the New Testament, the entire fossil ministry, our
example is Jesus. So we look at Jesus the prophet,
Jesus the apostle, Jesus the teacher, and we follow his ways.
(17:31):
And, and if I have to take it up, in a nutshell, I believe
that the main purpose of the NewTestament prophet is to
strengthen people's relationships with God.
That's the main purpose. The main purpose is not to
prophecy or to predict future events, global calamities will
(17:55):
take place. It's really focused on the
individual relationship, taking that individual's hand and God's
hand and connecting them and saying you can have a direct
relationship with God and you can speak to you.
Which is consistent with the other leaders in the church, the
apostles, the evangelists, the teachers, the pastors, all are
called to equip the Saints to follow Jesus and do ministry,
(18:19):
right. I love that you've talked about
Jesus as the model prophet. And so often I think in this
area, people, they look at prophets in the Old Testament
before Jesus. They look at Daniel, they look
at Isaiah and Jeremiah. These are all part of the story,
but they never had Jesus. So they didn't have the same
(18:40):
clarity that we have. And it it, it changes it because
now we have the lens of Jesus and and we understand of what
God is like more fully than theydo.
So that that understanding then changes the way we operate,
doesn't it? What does that look like for
you? Obviously changes the way you
(19:02):
prophecy. What does that mean for you now
that Jesus has come? Yes.
So, you know, when I look at thelife of Jesus as a reference
constantly, you know, in his days and times, there was a lot
of political events that took place, but Jesus never got
involved with that. He never stopped.
He never gave his opinion or, you know, he was never moved by
(19:24):
that in the same sense today, you know, there was worse then
and it's worse now. So there's things that are
continually happening, but Jesuswas constantly referencing to
his Father. He did he did nothing out of out
of the father. So he's constantly praying,
confirming he's calling and constantly in, in in unity with
(19:46):
the father. And that's the model that that
we follow. You know, every person has
assignment as a calling and there's going to be calamities
or veins of wars and things likethat.
But we have an assignment and mypurpose is to get people back
into that assignment. You know, the Lord has a plan
for your life. What's called busy with you and
you have to. Fix your eyes on Jesus, you
(20:09):
know, get your eyes of all the other stuff that's happening.
Yes, it's real yes, I mean we wewe don't deny these events are
happening globally, but you knowour future is safe in Christ.
Our hope is not in a president is not in a political field is
not in a man. Our hope is in Jesus and so we
(20:29):
fix our eyes on on him. So, so therefore, because of my
because of my journey with a voice, voice of God, it was
really easy stepping into the role of a New Testament prophet
because the voice of God remainsprimary to me.
So when I function as a New Testament prophet, the focus is
(20:50):
not to become a mediator to people.
My focus is teaching and training that they can hear
God's voice. And obviously there is different
flows of the voice of God. There's dreams, there's visions,
different ways that God speaks to us.
And it is really to identify that person's flow and how God
communicates with them. And then and then train them,
(21:13):
you know, give them a little couple of markers and how to
walk in those things. So it brings me personally, you
know, people think that it brings a joy to me to prophecy.
I love to prophecy, but it's fargreater if I could train and
equip people to hear God's voicepersonally.
And I'm very careful of, of becoming that mediator.
(21:34):
I do understand, you know, I'm bombarded by emails.
I think prophetically today, themost dangerous thing that you
can be is accurate because if you become accurate, there's
such a unhealthy demand upon your life.
You know, if people are 24/7, you know, bombarding you because
they are in an emergency. But I don't believe that that is
(21:57):
the answer. You know, just getting a
prophetic word is not going to fix anything.
You have to have a relationship with God and and walk this thing
out. Absolutely, Andre.
I love that we are talking with Prophet Andre Bronkhorst all the
way from South Africa on the role of the New Testament
prophet. We'll be back in just a moment.
(22:20):
Did you know that God's most common way of speaking in
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The problem is we don't always recognise it.
That's why founder of God Conversations, Tanya Harris has
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of contemporary examples, the book explores the nature of
(22:42):
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digitalaudio@godconversations.com.Welcome back to God
(23:03):
conversations, Andre. I so appreciate your
perspective. You know, I think prophets have
had a really big reputation. They're constantly like
prophesying over the big world affairs and the politics of
things. And it's it's not that those
things aren't important. It's just that if Jesus is our
model, he acknowledged those things, but it's always alarming
(23:25):
to consider that he have really talked about those things.
I think he talked about Rome andCaesar maybe worse or twice.
He never said to the disciples, hey, I want you to build my
Kingdom. So go to go to Rome and drum up
support in the Senate and bump off Emperor Tiberius and then my
Kingdom will come. You're right.
(23:46):
And there was only, I think evenone or two examples in New
Testament that where the prophets are speaking about
larger things, the main focus isfollowing Jesus, the mission of
God in individual lives. So, so I love that.
I think that one of the challenges around prophetic
ministries is this understandingthis shift, because people do
(24:11):
reference Old Testament prophetsas as a kind of like the way
forward. How do we respond to that?
How can we help that situation? I think you're right.
People do want to hear the Prophet saying these big things
as a way of getting guidance or comfort.
But how do we respond to that? So in Ephesians 411, it says
(24:32):
Christ gave the apostle fivefoldministry and it says to to equip
the Saints. And that is really what as a
fivefold minister, as a prophet,that is what our focus should
be. Our focus of a fivefold minister
is not to it's not for prophets to produce prophets.
It's for prophets to equip. It's not for teachers to produce
(24:53):
more teachers. It's we have to equip the
Saints, the body of Christ. And so whatever the need is in,
in the local church, in that specific church, I, I, honestly,
I try to shy away from a word for the year.
Often we have people that give aprophetic word for the year.
And I shy away from that becausewe are all in different seasons.
(25:15):
And you know, we can't copy and paste anymore, especially in the
times we've been living now God's been doing a new thing and
we can't take something that's working 1 nation, one church.
Just copy that and paste it and try to follow it.
Every church needs to pray and and get direction from the Lord
directly and say Lord show us. I've seen that too, you know,
(25:37):
and and sometimes when I read those prophetic words, I feel
like it's like reading astrology, you know, yes, look
up the days, the prophetic word of and it's like, well, how does
this word apply to everyone? And surely God is speaking to me
about my situation. Now, obviously there's going to
be some general things that God might be doing in a place, but I
(25:59):
do, I do think it's a bit odd that there's this tendency to
think that's what prophecy lookslike today.
Yes, and that's sad because it's, it's how it's been
branded. And obviously people love
sensation and you know, there's prophets that's out there that
I'm not helping that I'm not making it easier because of how
they function. You know, they, they projecting
(26:21):
that Old Testament role. You know, they're projecting
this place that they are, you know, this mediator.
And you know, I just, I've been studying this word, the, the
scripture about Christ in US, the hope of glory, and it talks
about this mystery. You know, there was this
mystery, which is Christ in you,the hope of glory.
But now that mystery is revealed.
(26:42):
So if someone comes to me today and they say, listen, I have a
mystery, I have a key, I have a secret to the prophetic to, you
know, I don't want to hear it because there's no secret
anymore. The secret is out.
The mystery is out. It's revealed now.
And and this is what people haveto understand that the same way
that we can hear the voice of God, they can hear the voice of
(27:04):
God. You know, it's not, we are not
some form of special group of people.
You know, every person can have a direct relation, relationship
with God. You know, I still have people
who send me emails and say, you know, when you pray, will you
mention our names to God? And I say to them, you know, I
don't have to. I don't have to say your name
(27:25):
before When I pray, God hears your prayers.
You have a direct relationship. And so we have to teach people,
you know, we have to try and equip them when it comes to the
voice of God. And also, you know, the ways of
God. They, they have to understand
that God wants that direct relationship.
(27:45):
And prophetically, if you start to allow that and you become
that mediator, you're putting yourself in a very dangerous
place because you know, I, I have the gifted God has given
me, I've, you know, I prophecy every day for the last 20 years.
So it's very natural to me to minister to prophecy to people.
(28:07):
So I can prophecy anytime, any day, any place.
But I, it's interesting. I would, I would pick a person
and prophecy to them. Then six months later again, and
then again. And then one day I'll look at
them and I don't see anything. I don't pick up anything.
And you know, people often think, well, that's a bad place
to be in. But what God is saying is if you
(28:31):
want to hear more, you got to approach me directly.
And so to me it's a good sign because people can come become
so dependent on prophecy, on other people.
And God doesn't want that. He wants to have a personal
direct relationship. And that's why the Scripture
says that when we prophecy, we prophecy in part, I mean, we, we
(28:51):
share a very small part of what God reveals.
But there's so much more if you would approach God directly.
But I believe that, you know, the doctrine of, you know, the
fear of the Lord, the people believe that God is not present,
God is not interested. And that's that's things that's
been restored in a personal relationship.
(29:12):
You know, when they learn that God is more involved in your
life than you know, than you think.
And he, he doesn't need a prophet, you know, to speak into
your life. He can speak to you directly,
although it, you know, it functions.
There's a function for that. I say that when we talk about
the New Testament prophet, that as a New Testament prophet, we
(29:33):
don't give predictions, we give invitations.
And So what that means is God comes, speaks over the situation
and God inviting you. So here's a couple that that
that's married and they're having difficulty.
They get a prophetic word that says God wants to restore your
marriage invitation. It's not a prediction.
(29:56):
And so they got to decide if they want to partner with God in
that word. They want to respond to that
invitation, but it's not if theyif, if they don't respond to
that, it doesn't mean you know that God, that God reject them.
You know God's gracious and he will keep on reaching out to you
and pulling you in over and over.
(30:18):
So and he speaks to us in various ways.
It's not just one prophet. He will use several voices to
speak to you, your own devotion time trying to to to prepare you
for what is to come. Yeah, it's interesting.
When I was researching some of this area, I noticed that in the
Greek way of thinking, when backin the in the ancient world in
(30:39):
the 1st century particularly, when the oracles would speak,
you know, prophetically, the Greek oracles, they would be
very predictive and they would read omen or read the entrails
of an animal and they would say this is what's going to happen.
And it was almost, it was fatally, you couldn't do
anything about it. But the Hebrew perspective was,
(31:00):
as you say, Invitational becausethere are two parties involved,
us and God. And so therefore there is a
cooperation and a dynamic there.So prediction is a super
unhelpful term because how can it be set unless we're engaging
in that process? I can say no at any time.
(31:22):
I cooperate with what God is inviting me to and I think that
the some of the challenges around the prophetic is this
idea that if God said it, you know, it's set in stone.
Well, yes, God faithful, but we're called to cooperate and we
have faithful. So so I love that perspective
that you have, Andre. I think that's super helpful.
(31:45):
Do you think we're talking aboutthe role of the prophet?
Do you think that there are prophets in every local church?
That that they should be. So if we look at the model of
the New Testament, we see in Acts chapter 13 was one it says
in the Church of Antioch, there were prophets and teachers.
(32:06):
So we see the role I just do believe also is that perception
of what we think how we should function is that as a prophet,
I, I am called to be a servant prophet.
I'm part of the fivefold ministry and I'm there to serve
the body of Christ. I'm not there to to lead, to be
the main person, to be the person, the spotlight.
You know, we are all called to serve.
(32:27):
So the, the purpose of the fivefold ministry is not to be
served, but to serve. That's the purpose of the
fivefold ministry. So as a as a prophet, also
within the local church, you know, there's a function and
there should be one, but the perspective of that person
should not be someone that gets a reserve seed or special
treatment. That's a normal member that
(32:50):
serves the body, but that that functions in in the church as a
fivefold minister. So I believe that, you know,
they they should be, but just the understanding of them, you
know, we need to be equipped andtrained in what that mean.
And it depends from from church to church, we I help churches
now, I believe that every churchneeds a prophetic team.
(33:11):
And I'm an entire fivefold ministry.
Lord spoke to me in in this season.
The Lord said to me, I'm restoring the fivefold ministry
in the local church. And I do believe it's the time
for the entire fivefold ministryto come back to the local
church. Prophets needs to come back to
the local church evangelist teachers, you know, under the
(33:33):
governing authority of the apostle or the pastor.
So, so they are there to preserve, not function outside
of the local church and trying to build something there.
You know, prophecy is not for the unbeliever.
Prophecy is for the believer. So we not the purpose of
prophecy is not to impress the world.
You know, the purpose of prophecy is to strengthen the
(33:55):
believer and that is the way we've taken prophecy outside of
the local church and we're trying to use that to impress
the world. How accurate or word of wisdom
or word of knowledge or you know, and that's not the purpose
of that. It is to equip it.
You know, it's for the believers.
So I believe every church needs the entire 5 of ministry a
prophet, but the function of that prophet is to serve the
(34:17):
church. So depends on, you know, the
size of the church and how they function.
We seem to have gone astray, I think, in in making this role of
the prophet this very high elevated.
Special. You know, outside of the local
body, when actually there are prophetically gifted people
within our chest. And I think I, I, I like the way
(34:37):
that you refer yourself as a prophet because I think that
there's a fear around titles unnecessary because it's just a
function and it's a gifting thatyou were given.
It's not a title that you are, you know, I'm the great prophet.
But actually, if you can acknowledge the gifting, then
(34:58):
you can receive it. So I think perhaps that's where
we've gone a little bit astray as well.
Andre, our time is running out and we love to talk about God
conversations here on the God Conversations podcast.
And I wondered if we might finish with perhaps a favourite
God conversation that you've hador you've prophesied over
(35:18):
someone that's been a beautiful demonstration of God's goodness.
Perhaps there's something that we can finish off with on that
note. Just just just so many, you
know, that I can think of, you know, personal God
conversations, you know, how Godhas touched my life and, and
moved my life. But then also, you know, through
prophecy, how the Lord has worked and, and touched, touched
(35:39):
people. You know, the grace of God in,
in people's in people's lives. You know, one of the examples
that I would like to use is, youknow, I, I'm ministered in a, in
a church and in this church there was a man and I didn't
know, know it, but prior to that, the leadership had some,
(36:00):
some challenges with him. And the leadership actually
decided that they are going to ask him to leave the church for
six months because of the chaos that he's causing in the church.
And, and that happened prior to the meeting.
And so, so I, I got up service started and I called out this
(36:20):
man and didn't know about the meeting before church and I
called him up out of everyone and I said to him, you know, God
is saying that you are a man after his heart, after his own
heart. And, and so continue to minister
and man was very touched. And so after the service, the
leadership called me in and theysaid, listen, you know, the
(36:43):
prophetic words was great and was amazing.
But there's one man that you picked, you know, we just want
to tell you, you missed it completely.
You know, we actually asked him to leave the church and, you
know, because of the chaos that he's that he's causing.
And so, you know, so they said, and I, I know I often say in the
early years of ministry, I wouldtry to explain that, but now, I
(37:05):
mean, I just give what I have, Ishare what I see.
I can't add to it. I I don't understand everything.
I'm just a vessel. And so left afternoon, came back
for the evening service. And in the evening service this
man was back. It can be the evening service.
And when I wanted to start to minister the evening service,
(37:30):
this man just walked up to the stage and he said, could I
please say something? And he took the microphone and
he said to the whole congregation, you know, this,
this morning this man prophesiedto me.
And everything that it prophesied, I knew I was not.
But because of that, I want to repent and I want to apologise
(37:54):
to the leadership in this churchbecause what he said I am is
really what I long to be. And God completely restored him
there. And this is what I when I talk
about the New Testament prophet is that, you know, we got to,
you know, if I knew this about the situation, I would have been
(38:15):
very careful and selective of mywords.
But here God comes and God speaks to me his life and and I
mean speaks about exactly what he longs to be, but he's not.
And here it is just that tippingpoint of that person where it's
a complete turn around and he says I long to be that because
God sees that in me. That's profound, Andre, and the
(38:38):
power of God's words. It's beautiful.
You know what, there's going to be people listening to this
podcast and they're going to be like, pastor, we need to get on
to come to our you're going to get ambushed for visits.
Oh, that's fantastic. What a pleasure it has been to
(38:59):
speak with you and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and
insight. Seriously though, if someone did
want to get in touch with you, where could they find you?
A website or where? Would they just my name Andre
Broncos Ministries and that's it, Yes.
Such an honour to to speak with you Andre, and we pray that God
will continue to profoundly use you in this area.
(39:21):
Thank you so much for encouraging us.
Thank you, I appreciate it and it was really wonderful meeting
you and I really just love your your heart, your heart.
I mean, you've got a you've got AI don't know what it's called,
maybe Apostolic prophetic edge, but you've you know, you've you
are a powerful veseland tool in the Kingdom of God right now and
(39:43):
just love your style of teaching.
It's very stable, very consistent, very clear and you
know, that's what people need inthe season.
They need stability, They need someone that is that is clear.
I mean, you can correct, but in the same way you can love and be
kind. And so I just honour you for
that and and the gift that God has placed upon your life.
(40:04):
Thank you, Andre. Thanks for listening to God
Conversations with Tanya Harris.Don't miss the next episode by
subscribing to the show and yourfavourite podcast app.
And remember, the Holy Spirit was given so we could all hear
God's voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation.
God conversations with Tanya Harris, I think.
It was Mother Teresa and someoneasked her when does God speak to
you? And she said, whenever he wants.
How could I know if God was speaking to me?
And how could I know that that was actually just me thinking
about I just had some bad pizza?I just thought it was normal to
dream and have experiences. And she said to me, I actually
(00:21):
have a relationship with Jesus and he talks to me and it just
blew my mind. And then hearing the Lord speak
again very clearly and just saying this, this is where I've
called you to love and say. Jesus said we'd recognise his
voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation. When someone says the word
(00:42):
prophet, what do you think of The label can conjure up images
of a robed figure gazing into a crystal ball, or perhaps a
Wildman dressed in camel's hair eating insects and raving about
the end of the world. Prophets have always been around
in history, in the biblical tradition and beyond it.
(01:03):
Among the Hebrew people, prophets played a key role in
expressing God's will for the nation.
But something significant happened to their role after
Jesus came. In the church Today we have
prophets, but what do they do? How do we know who they are?
How should they function? Hi and welcome to the God
(01:24):
Conversations podcast. My name is Tanya Harris and I'm
a pastor, practical theologian, author, and the founding
director of God Conversations, aministry that equips you to
recognise and respond to God's voice.
Today we're talking all about the role of a New Covenant
prophet and we are privileged tohave an expert on the show to
(01:47):
talk about it. Now, I first met this guest in
Switzerland where I've just returned from, had an incredible
time apart from the nasty bug that I caught the week before in
Germany. They certainly know how to do
good. Strong bugs there because it
lingered, but I still was able to really enjoy my time.
Particularly, I loved ministering at the Swiss
(02:08):
Pentecostal Pastors Conference, the German speaking pastors in
Switzerland, and it was such a joy to meet the pastors there.
If any of you are listening to the show today, welcome.
You know, there's a real hunger for the Holy Spirit in the Swiss
churches and in the European churches at large.
And it was such an honour to be the first woman to minister at
that conference. I'm so thankful for the
(02:30):
privilege. But as I mentioned mentioned, we
have an expert on the show to talk all about the role of the
prophet in the church today. It's a really important
conversation that has a great impact on helping the people of
God recognise and respond to thevoice of God.
And this man is a globally recognised prophetic voice.
(02:50):
He has a passion for equipping and empowering the body of
Christ all the way from South Africa.
Welcome to the show, Andre Bronkhorst.
Andre, it is so great to have you on the God Conversations
podcast. I love it that we have a guest
from South Africa and the irony is that we met in Switzerland.
(03:11):
So that's a fun connection. Isn't so great to be with you at
Zoll House in Lucerne in Switzerland?
So welcome to the show. Why don't you tell a little bit
about your story? How did you come to be doing
what you are doing now? First of all, for the
opportunity, it was really wonderful to meet you in
(03:31):
Switzerland. I really enjoyed the fact that
you spoke English. You were the only speaker I
could listen to, didn't have to translate.
So it was great to sit in the sessions and and just listen to
your training sessions in, in this.
And yeah, we definitely have a very much the same flow.
So I enjoyed that your perspective on the prophetic, on
dreams and visions and how God speaks to us.
(03:54):
I really enjoyed that my story in in short, I had an encounter
at the age of 16 with the voice of God.
And to to me personally, the voice of God is really
predominantly, you know, the most important thing.
I really believe that every believer needs to hear the
voices of God. And so because of that encounter
(04:18):
that I had at the age of 16, I came to the end of my rope, as
the message translation says, atthe age of 16, I made so many
mistakes and I I got to a place where I wanted to commit
suicide, not continue with my life any any further at the age
of 16. And in that moment, God spoke to
(04:38):
me. I heard the audible voice of
God. And that voice really
transformed my life right there.I cried out to God and I said I
can't live without If I continueto live, I have to hear your
voice. And so the Lord took me on a
journey personally in recognising His voice and.
(05:00):
What did God say at that point, Andre?
Can I just jump in? What did God say at that point?
Yes, you can. So I actually wrote a book I was
testing in a book about, you know, everything.
But what happened is I, I made so many mistakes prior to, you
know, to that up until the age of 16.
And because of those mistakes, Iwas caught in the act.
(05:23):
And so I, I really threw away myfuture.
There was no hope. And I was sitting in my room and
just think of suicide is just nohope to face the world the next
day. And in that moment, God spoke to
me and he said to me, Andre, I am proud of you.
And I, as much as I wanted to accept that, I knew that, you
(05:49):
know, it wasn't me. My life was falling apart.
There was nothing to be proud of.
And and then the second thing that God said to me is he said,
Andre, I believe in you. And so this is really the words
that changed my life. I'm proud of you and I, I
believe in you. And that's how the journey
started. And I've I've tried to explain
(06:09):
to people that when God looks atus, he looks from a different
perspective. While we see our current season,
while we see our lives are falling apart, God really sees
our full potential. And that was what was happening
at that moment is I, I saw, I mean, the end of my ropes and
(06:29):
God saw the full potential of what I could become.
And that is what that's why God said I was proud of you and I
believe in you. And this is how that that
journey started. Because when God said to me, I
believe in you, I said, I mean, I, I, I, you obviously seeing
something that I don't see and also no one else can see at this
moment. And, and I want to get to know
(06:51):
that. And so help me to see what you
you see in me, but also in otherpeople.
It's so beautiful that God knowswhat to say to motivate us.
Isn't that true? And it's never shame or
condemnation. You know, look what you've done
never rubs your face in it but calls out of you.
God sees I just, I love that. So then you went on this journey
(07:14):
of learning to recognise God. Had you had a church background,
Andre? I did so I grew up in church,
but a very legalistic church. So grew up in a church, but I
always very works driven. So as a as a child, I felt
disqualified from having a relationship with God because I
(07:37):
couldn't do all the religious acts I asked.
I couldn't pray as long as they prayed, I couldn't follow those
routines. And as a child, I excluded
myself and I thought, well, you know, I know the scriptures are
the 10 church, but I was in church and I didn't have a
relationship with God. And and that was that encounter
(07:59):
really when I had that encounterat the age of 16.
And I said to God, just tell me,what do I need to do to hear
your voice? Do I need to pray more?
Do I need to fast? You know, all these things that
I'm disqualified of. I'll, I'll do it, But just tell
me, you know, what's the secret?What's the key?
And Lord really answered me and he said to me, you need to have
a relationship with me. And and that's the journey that
(08:22):
God then took me on and how to get to know him and really walk
with him in a relationship. So I mean that was while I was
attending church and and a spiritual church.
It's interesting, isn't it? We have a similar background in
some way. It's it's such a different
emphasis to have faith or a religion based on rules versus
(08:45):
relationship. And at the core of relationship
has to be two way communication.I think that's why it's so
important. So so then you went on the
journey of learning to recogniseGod's voice.
At what point did you feel that you were called to be a prophet?
You know, we a prophet is a big weighty term and today and it
(09:06):
has a whole lot of different understandings around it.
So tell us a little bit about your understanding and how you
came to understand your role. And so, so I started with that
journey and it's a, it was a eight year journey where God
trained me to hear his voice andGod really had to become a
(09:27):
father to me and take me step bystep and, and train, equip me,
you know, to, to know him. So because of that, it really
sparked the, the passion to train other people.
When you have an encounter, thenyou want everyone else to
experience that encounter. When you get healed, you want
everyone to be healed. When you whatever happens to
(09:47):
you, you want to share that. And So what really sparked it is
that encounter sparked somethingin, in my life where I just had
this desire that, you know, I don't want to do anything else
with my life. I just want to teach people and
train people to, to hear God's voice.
And so that was the journey thatthat I started, you know, to go
on. Then 10 years ago, the Lord
(10:09):
called me one morning I woke up and the Lord said to me, I'm
calling you to be a New Testament prophet.
And I, my first response is was I reject it.
I said to God, I don't want to be a prophet.
I just want to be Andre. I don't want the title.
I don't want to, you know, I shield away from that.
(10:32):
And so it was really difficult process for me personally to
accept that it was not somethingthat I wanted to do.
It was not something that I wanted to pursue and I had no
desire for that. And the Lord said to me, well,
what if that is what I want to call you to be?
Would you be that? And, and so in, in obedience, I
really responded and I said, God, I mean, I said, I'll, I'll
(10:55):
give you my life and, and whatever you need of me.
But I don't know what that means.
I don't know what a New Testament prophet means.
I've got no example of that. And, and in the same sense, the
Lord had to equip me and train me in exactly what that is and
what his heart is for, for the local church and also prophets,
you know, in, in this era. And so that happened 10 years
(11:16):
ago where God called me and I just said yes.
And when I said yes, the Lord said to me, I'm going to send
you to 40 different nations. And, and I'm going to send you
to the local church to equip thechurch.
And, you know, at that time, I haven't travelled at all.
(11:36):
I've never left South Africa. I've never been on a plane.
So when I said God, I mean, I don't have to go to 14 nations.
I can go to one. It doesn't have to be, you know,
whatever you require. And then things just started to
happen supernaturally. I was in a service on a
conference during that time and a pastor from from New York,
(11:58):
good friend of mine, now he was at the same conference, about
5000 people on the conference. And I'm standing in the worship
and the Lord is saying, can I send you?
Will you go? And I said, yes, wherever you
want to send me, I'll go. I'll do it.
And at that time, this man is onthe same conference.
And because of a bad experience in the church in New York, they
(12:22):
with, with the prophetic ministry or with the prophet,
they as a church decided that they would not allow prophetic
ministry or, or prophets in their church.
And so for quite some time they've not had anyone come.
And so he's on the same conference and he's standing
there in the worship and he's saying, God, I want to repent.
(12:42):
It's time to restore called the prophetic ministry in our church
and he's praying and calling outto God and he said God, but I
don't want a young man. I want you to send me someone
that's all that's mature, that'swell established in the word,
you know, that can come and and restore the prophetic in our
church. And that's exactly the same time
you're standing on the same conference.
(13:02):
And so he looks over to me on the conference, you know, and
the Lord says to him, that is the person that will do it.
So he walks over to me and he says, hi, my name is Chris,
would you come to my church in America?
And so I said to him, yeah, sure, I'll, I'll do it.
I'll come. Were you old enough, Andre?
(13:25):
If you wanted an older person, yes.
He's been a bit too young, I think.
Yeah, no, Dave. So he, so he, so he basically
invited me and I said yes. And then the service started and
after the service he came to me.He said, listen, I apologise.
You know, what's your name? I'm Chris.
And Are you sure you'll come? And don't you need to pray about
(13:47):
it? And I said to him, no God, God
spoke to me and he said I shouldgo.
And that was really, that's, that's really sparked the
restoration. So I went to America, to this
church that have not had a profit for many years and also
really bad experience. And over that weekend, God
really restored the church and, and that was what sparked it in
(14:10):
and where God said to me, this is what I'm calling you to do is
I'm going to send you. And this is what people don't
understand. You know, most of the churches
that I go today is not churches that embrace the prophetic.
It's churches that that are against the prophetic.
So my work is I I'm not loved everywhere and celebrated.
I go to places where. They So why do they why do they
(14:33):
invite you? So he so Chris, this this
pastor, they have not allowed the prophetic in their church
for about 10 years. And, and he repented to God and
they said, God, we need the fivefold back in our church and,
and we send us someone. And that's where he looked at me
and God said to him that, that that's the person that'll come
(14:54):
and do it. So this is churches who, when it
comes to the fivefold ministry, not just the prophets, but
actually, you know, the evangelist, the old fivefold
ministry that have just rejectedthat in, in the churches.
And so, so they've invited me to, to specifically to come and
to, to restore and speak on, on what the prophetic is really and
(15:15):
what the new decimate property is.
Yeah. To undo some of the damage.
Perhaps it has been done fast. That's so sad, but really great
that God is using you in that way.
And obviously you have a certainsense of safety that goes with
you that people would be able totrust you to come in if they've
had that history around them. Yes.
(15:38):
So what are you in a nutshell then?
Let's go back to the call of a New Testament prophet.
How would you describe that in general?
So that's the when you look at the prophet, the word prophet,
and we take the Old Testament prophet and the New Testament
prophet and we we look for similarities between the two.
(15:59):
When I train and teach in churches, I explain to them the
only thing that the New Testament and Old Testament
prophet have in common is the word prophet, nothing else.
They are completely different. They functioned in different
eras. So the Old Testament prophets
were predominantly the voice of God to people.
And I mean, this is God that wanted to to father Israel, that
(16:23):
wanted to be their God. And Israel rejected God and
said, no, you know, rather speak, you know, to Moses.
We don't want to, we don't want we don't want us, you to speak
to us directly. And and then God used to the
prophets predominantly in the Old Testament.
You know, every nation had sources, magicians, but Israel
had prophets and that got used in the Old Testament.
(16:47):
But then we stepped into the NewTestament and you know, Hebrews
chapter one verse 123 says in the past God spoke to our
ancestors to the prophets, but now he speaks to us through his
son. And so a new era started.
I call it era of the New Testament prophet.
(17:08):
And as in New Testament prophet,we do not look at the examples
or leadership of the Old Testament prophets.
We don't follow their styles, their ways.
They were up until a certain time.
So in the New Testament, the entire fossil ministry, our
example is Jesus. So we look at Jesus the prophet,
Jesus the apostle, Jesus the teacher, and we follow his ways.
(17:31):
And, and if I have to take it up, in a nutshell, I believe
that the main purpose of the NewTestament prophet is to
strengthen people's relationships with God.
That's the main purpose. The main purpose is not to
prophecy or to predict future events, global calamities will
(17:55):
take place. It's really focused on the
individual relationship, taking that individual's hand and God's
hand and connecting them and saying you can have a direct
relationship with God and you can speak to you.
Which is consistent with the other leaders in the church, the
apostles, the evangelists, the teachers, the pastors, all are
called to equip the Saints to follow Jesus and do ministry,
(18:19):
right. I love that you've talked about
Jesus as the model prophet. And so often I think in this
area, people, they look at prophets in the Old Testament
before Jesus. They look at Daniel, they look
at Isaiah and Jeremiah. These are all part of the story,
but they never had Jesus. So they didn't have the same
(18:40):
clarity that we have. And it it, it changes it because
now we have the lens of Jesus and and we understand of what
God is like more fully than theydo.
So that that understanding then changes the way we operate,
doesn't it? What does that look like for
you? Obviously changes the way you
(19:02):
prophecy. What does that mean for you now
that Jesus has come? Yes.
So, you know, when I look at thelife of Jesus as a reference
constantly, you know, in his days and times, there was a lot
of political events that took place, but Jesus never got
involved with that. He never stopped.
He never gave his opinion or, you know, he was never moved by
(19:24):
that in the same sense today, you know, there was worse then
and it's worse now. So there's things that are
continually happening, but Jesuswas constantly referencing to
his Father. He did he did nothing out of out
of the father. So he's constantly praying,
confirming he's calling and constantly in, in in unity with
(19:46):
the father. And that's the model that that
we follow. You know, every person has
assignment as a calling and there's going to be calamities
or veins of wars and things likethat.
But we have an assignment and mypurpose is to get people back
into that assignment. You know, the Lord has a plan
for your life. What's called busy with you and
you have to. Fix your eyes on Jesus, you
(20:09):
know, get your eyes of all the other stuff that's happening.
Yes, it's real yes, I mean we wewe don't deny these events are
happening globally, but you knowour future is safe in Christ.
Our hope is not in a president is not in a political field is
not in a man. Our hope is in Jesus and so we
(20:29):
fix our eyes on on him. So, so therefore, because of my
because of my journey with a voice, voice of God, it was
really easy stepping into the role of a New Testament prophet
because the voice of God remainsprimary to me.
So when I function as a New Testament prophet, the focus is
(20:50):
not to become a mediator to people.
My focus is teaching and training that they can hear
God's voice. And obviously there is different
flows of the voice of God. There's dreams, there's visions,
different ways that God speaks to us.
And it is really to identify that person's flow and how God
communicates with them. And then and then train them,
(21:13):
you know, give them a little couple of markers and how to
walk in those things. So it brings me personally, you
know, people think that it brings a joy to me to prophecy.
I love to prophecy, but it's fargreater if I could train and
equip people to hear God's voicepersonally.
And I'm very careful of, of becoming that mediator.
(21:34):
I do understand, you know, I'm bombarded by emails.
I think prophetically today, themost dangerous thing that you
can be is accurate because if you become accurate, there's
such a unhealthy demand upon your life.
You know, if people are 24/7, you know, bombarding you because
they are in an emergency. But I don't believe that that is
(21:57):
the answer. You know, just getting a
prophetic word is not going to fix anything.
You have to have a relationship with God and and walk this thing
out. Absolutely, Andre.
I love that we are talking with Prophet Andre Bronkhorst all the
way from South Africa on the role of the New Testament
prophet. We'll be back in just a moment.
(22:20):
Did you know that God's most common way of speaking in
biblical history is in dreams and visions?
God still speaks in this creative and powerful way today.
The problem is we don't always recognise it.
That's why founder of God Conversations, Tanya Harris has
written God Dreams, Drawing on experiences of the early Church
of contemporary examples, the book explores the nature of
(22:42):
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digitalaudio@godconversations.com.Welcome back to God
(23:03):
conversations, Andre. I so appreciate your
perspective. You know, I think prophets have
had a really big reputation. They're constantly like
prophesying over the big world affairs and the politics of
things. And it's it's not that those
things aren't important. It's just that if Jesus is our
model, he acknowledged those things, but it's always alarming
(23:25):
to consider that he have really talked about those things.
I think he talked about Rome andCaesar maybe worse or twice.
He never said to the disciples, hey, I want you to build my
Kingdom. So go to go to Rome and drum up
support in the Senate and bump off Emperor Tiberius and then my
Kingdom will come. You're right.
(23:46):
And there was only, I think evenone or two examples in New
Testament that where the prophets are speaking about
larger things, the main focus isfollowing Jesus, the mission of
God in individual lives. So, so I love that.
I think that one of the challenges around prophetic
ministries is this understandingthis shift, because people do
(24:11):
reference Old Testament prophetsas as a kind of like the way
forward. How do we respond to that?
How can we help that situation? I think you're right.
People do want to hear the Prophet saying these big things
as a way of getting guidance or comfort.
But how do we respond to that? So in Ephesians 411, it says
(24:32):
Christ gave the apostle fivefoldministry and it says to to equip
the Saints. And that is really what as a
fivefold minister, as a prophet,that is what our focus should
be. Our focus of a fivefold minister
is not to it's not for prophets to produce prophets.
It's for prophets to equip. It's not for teachers to produce
(24:53):
more teachers. It's we have to equip the
Saints, the body of Christ. And so whatever the need is in,
in the local church, in that specific church, I, I, honestly,
I try to shy away from a word for the year.
Often we have people that give aprophetic word for the year.
And I shy away from that becausewe are all in different seasons.
(25:15):
And you know, we can't copy and paste anymore, especially in the
times we've been living now God's been doing a new thing and
we can't take something that's working 1 nation, one church.
Just copy that and paste it and try to follow it.
Every church needs to pray and and get direction from the Lord
directly and say Lord show us. I've seen that too, you know,
(25:37):
and and sometimes when I read those prophetic words, I feel
like it's like reading astrology, you know, yes, look
up the days, the prophetic word of and it's like, well, how does
this word apply to everyone? And surely God is speaking to me
about my situation. Now, obviously there's going to
be some general things that God might be doing in a place, but I
(25:59):
do, I do think it's a bit odd that there's this tendency to
think that's what prophecy lookslike today.
Yes, and that's sad because it's, it's how it's been
branded. And obviously people love
sensation and you know, there's prophets that's out there that
I'm not helping that I'm not making it easier because of how
they function. You know, they, they projecting
(26:21):
that Old Testament role. You know, they're projecting
this place that they are, you know, this mediator.
And you know, I just, I've been studying this word, the, the
scripture about Christ in US, the hope of glory, and it talks
about this mystery. You know, there was this
mystery, which is Christ in you,the hope of glory.
But now that mystery is revealed.
(26:42):
So if someone comes to me today and they say, listen, I have a
mystery, I have a key, I have a secret to the prophetic to, you
know, I don't want to hear it because there's no secret
anymore. The secret is out.
The mystery is out. It's revealed now.
And and this is what people haveto understand that the same way
that we can hear the voice of God, they can hear the voice of
(27:04):
God. You know, it's not, we are not
some form of special group of people.
You know, every person can have a direct relation, relationship
with God. You know, I still have people
who send me emails and say, you know, when you pray, will you
mention our names to God? And I say to them, you know, I
don't have to. I don't have to say your name
(27:25):
before When I pray, God hears your prayers.
You have a direct relationship. And so we have to teach people,
you know, we have to try and equip them when it comes to the
voice of God. And also, you know, the ways of
God. They, they have to understand
that God wants that direct relationship.
(27:45):
And prophetically, if you start to allow that and you become
that mediator, you're putting yourself in a very dangerous
place because you know, I, I have the gifted God has given
me, I've, you know, I prophecy every day for the last 20 years.
So it's very natural to me to minister to prophecy to people.
(28:07):
So I can prophecy anytime, any day, any place.
But I, it's interesting. I would, I would pick a person
and prophecy to them. Then six months later again, and
then again. And then one day I'll look at
them and I don't see anything. I don't pick up anything.
And you know, people often think, well, that's a bad place
to be in. But what God is saying is if you
(28:31):
want to hear more, you got to approach me directly.
And so to me it's a good sign because people can come become
so dependent on prophecy, on other people.
And God doesn't want that. He wants to have a personal
direct relationship. And that's why the Scripture
says that when we prophecy, we prophecy in part, I mean, we, we
(28:51):
share a very small part of what God reveals.
But there's so much more if you would approach God directly.
But I believe that, you know, the doctrine of, you know, the
fear of the Lord, the people believe that God is not present,
God is not interested. And that's that's things that's
been restored in a personal relationship.
(29:12):
You know, when they learn that God is more involved in your
life than you know, than you think.
And he, he doesn't need a prophet, you know, to speak into
your life. He can speak to you directly,
although it, you know, it functions.
There's a function for that. I say that when we talk about
the New Testament prophet, that as a New Testament prophet, we
(29:33):
don't give predictions, we give invitations.
And So what that means is God comes, speaks over the situation
and God inviting you. So here's a couple that that
that's married and they're having difficulty.
They get a prophetic word that says God wants to restore your
marriage invitation. It's not a prediction.
(29:56):
And so they got to decide if they want to partner with God in
that word. They want to respond to that
invitation, but it's not if theyif, if they don't respond to
that, it doesn't mean you know that God, that God reject them.
You know God's gracious and he will keep on reaching out to you
and pulling you in over and over.
(30:18):
So and he speaks to us in various ways.
It's not just one prophet. He will use several voices to
speak to you, your own devotion time trying to to to prepare you
for what is to come. Yeah, it's interesting.
When I was researching some of this area, I noticed that in the
Greek way of thinking, when backin the in the ancient world in
(30:39):
the 1st century particularly, when the oracles would speak,
you know, prophetically, the Greek oracles, they would be
very predictive and they would read omen or read the entrails
of an animal and they would say this is what's going to happen.
And it was almost, it was fatally, you couldn't do
anything about it. But the Hebrew perspective was,
(31:00):
as you say, Invitational becausethere are two parties involved,
us and God. And so therefore there is a
cooperation and a dynamic there.So prediction is a super
unhelpful term because how can it be set unless we're engaging
in that process? I can say no at any time.
(31:22):
I cooperate with what God is inviting me to and I think that
the some of the challenges around the prophetic is this
idea that if God said it, you know, it's set in stone.
Well, yes, God faithful, but we're called to cooperate and we
have faithful. So so I love that perspective
that you have, Andre. I think that's super helpful.
(31:45):
Do you think we're talking aboutthe role of the prophet?
Do you think that there are prophets in every local church?
That that they should be. So if we look at the model of
the New Testament, we see in Acts chapter 13 was one it says
in the Church of Antioch, there were prophets and teachers.
(32:06):
So we see the role I just do believe also is that perception
of what we think how we should function is that as a prophet,
I, I am called to be a servant prophet.
I'm part of the fivefold ministry and I'm there to serve
the body of Christ. I'm not there to to lead, to be
the main person, to be the person, the spotlight.
You know, we are all called to serve.
(32:27):
So the, the purpose of the fivefold ministry is not to be
served, but to serve. That's the purpose of the
fivefold ministry. So as a as a prophet, also
within the local church, you know, there's a function and
there should be one, but the perspective of that person
should not be someone that gets a reserve seed or special
treatment. That's a normal member that
(32:50):
serves the body, but that that functions in in the church as a
fivefold minister. So I believe that, you know,
they they should be, but just the understanding of them, you
know, we need to be equipped andtrained in what that mean.
And it depends from from church to church, we I help churches
now, I believe that every churchneeds a prophetic team.
(33:11):
And I'm an entire fivefold ministry.
Lord spoke to me in in this season.
The Lord said to me, I'm restoring the fivefold ministry
in the local church. And I do believe it's the time
for the entire fivefold ministryto come back to the local
church. Prophets needs to come back to
the local church evangelist teachers, you know, under the
(33:33):
governing authority of the apostle or the pastor.
So, so they are there to preserve, not function outside
of the local church and trying to build something there.
You know, prophecy is not for the unbeliever.
Prophecy is for the believer. So we not the purpose of
prophecy is not to impress the world.
You know, the purpose of prophecy is to strengthen the
(33:55):
believer and that is the way we've taken prophecy outside of
the local church and we're trying to use that to impress
the world. How accurate or word of wisdom
or word of knowledge or you know, and that's not the purpose
of that. It is to equip it.
You know, it's for the believers.
So I believe every church needs the entire 5 of ministry a
prophet, but the function of that prophet is to serve the
(34:17):
church. So depends on, you know, the
size of the church and how they function.
We seem to have gone astray, I think, in in making this role of
the prophet this very high elevated.
Special. You know, outside of the local
body, when actually there are prophetically gifted people
within our chest. And I think I, I, I like the way
(34:37):
that you refer yourself as a prophet because I think that
there's a fear around titles unnecessary because it's just a
function and it's a gifting thatyou were given.
It's not a title that you are, you know, I'm the great prophet.
But actually, if you can acknowledge the gifting, then
(34:58):
you can receive it. So I think perhaps that's where
we've gone a little bit astray as well.
Andre, our time is running out and we love to talk about God
conversations here on the God Conversations podcast.
And I wondered if we might finish with perhaps a favourite
God conversation that you've hador you've prophesied over
(35:18):
someone that's been a beautiful demonstration of God's goodness.
Perhaps there's something that we can finish off with on that
note. Just just just so many, you
know, that I can think of, you know, personal God
conversations, you know, how Godhas touched my life and, and
moved my life. But then also, you know, through
prophecy, how the Lord has worked and, and touched, touched
(35:39):
people. You know, the grace of God in,
in people's in people's lives. You know, one of the examples
that I would like to use is, youknow, I, I'm ministered in a, in
a church and in this church there was a man and I didn't
know, know it, but prior to that, the leadership had some,
(36:00):
some challenges with him. And the leadership actually
decided that they are going to ask him to leave the church for
six months because of the chaos that he's causing in the church.
And, and that happened prior to the meeting.
And so, so I, I got up service started and I called out this
(36:20):
man and didn't know about the meeting before church and I
called him up out of everyone and I said to him, you know, God
is saying that you are a man after his heart, after his own
heart. And, and so continue to minister
and man was very touched. And so after the service, the
leadership called me in and theysaid, listen, you know, the
(36:43):
prophetic words was great and was amazing.
But there's one man that you picked, you know, we just want
to tell you, you missed it completely.
You know, we actually asked him to leave the church and, you
know, because of the chaos that he's that he's causing.
And so, you know, so they said, and I, I know I often say in the
early years of ministry, I wouldtry to explain that, but now, I
(37:05):
mean, I just give what I have, Ishare what I see.
I can't add to it. I I don't understand everything.
I'm just a vessel. And so left afternoon, came back
for the evening service. And in the evening service this
man was back. It can be the evening service.
And when I wanted to start to minister the evening service,
(37:30):
this man just walked up to the stage and he said, could I
please say something? And he took the microphone and
he said to the whole congregation, you know, this,
this morning this man prophesiedto me.
And everything that it prophesied, I knew I was not.
But because of that, I want to repent and I want to apologise
(37:54):
to the leadership in this churchbecause what he said I am is
really what I long to be. And God completely restored him
there. And this is what I when I talk
about the New Testament prophet is that, you know, we got to,
you know, if I knew this about the situation, I would have been
(38:15):
very careful and selective of mywords.
But here God comes and God speaks to me his life and and I
mean speaks about exactly what he longs to be, but he's not.
And here it is just that tippingpoint of that person where it's
a complete turn around and he says I long to be that because
God sees that in me. That's profound, Andre, and the
(38:38):
power of God's words. It's beautiful.
You know what, there's going to be people listening to this
podcast and they're going to be like, pastor, we need to get on
to come to our you're going to get ambushed for visits.
Oh, that's fantastic. What a pleasure it has been to
(38:59):
speak with you and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and
insight. Seriously though, if someone did
want to get in touch with you, where could they find you?
A website or where? Would they just my name Andre
Broncos Ministries and that's it, Yes.
Such an honour to to speak with you Andre, and we pray that God
will continue to profoundly use you in this area.
(39:21):
Thank you so much for encouraging us.
Thank you, I appreciate it and it was really wonderful meeting
you and I really just love your your heart, your heart.
I mean, you've got a you've got AI don't know what it's called,
maybe Apostolic prophetic edge, but you've you know, you've you
are a powerful veseland tool in the Kingdom of God right now and
(39:43):
just love your style of teaching.
It's very stable, very consistent, very clear and you
know, that's what people need inthe season.
They need stability, They need someone that is that is clear.
I mean, you can correct, but in the same way you can love and be
kind. And so I just honour you for
that and and the gift that God has placed upon your life.
(40:04):
Thank you, Andre. Thanks for listening to God
Conversations with Tanya Harris.Don't miss the next episode by
subscribing to the show and yourfavourite podcast app.
And remember, the Holy Spirit was given so we could all hear
God's voice. It was never meant to be a one
way conversation.
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