September 27, 2024 • 55 mins
What if the pain of your past is the very thing keeping you from stepping into God’s best for your life? In this powerful second episode with Ian Reith, we dive deep into the hidden impact of trauma—how it separates us from our true identity, creates destructive habits, and keeps us trapped in cycles of pain. But here’s the good news: God’s love is greater than any stronghold.
Ian shares his personal breakthrough—an unexpected deliverance from spiritual oppression the night before this recording. He unpacks how trauma and sin intertwine, why we unknowingly cling to our own prisons, and how the enemy takes advantage of our unhealed wounds. But through submission to God, freedom is possible.
If you’ve ever felt stuck, battled addiction, or struggled with self-worth, this conversation is for you. Discover the power of salvation, the truth about God’s unconditional love, and the key to breaking free. Plus, stay tuned for a life-changing prayer at the end—because today might just be your day for healing.
Don’t keep this freedom to yourself! Share this episode, follow the podcast, and leave a review to help others experience God’s goodness. Want to support our mission? Your generosity keeps these stories reaching those who need them most.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the God's Goodness Podcast, where our mission is to encourage and highlight God's
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goodness and modern-day miracles. We are your hosts, Josh and Shelley Hankins. Today we have
with us a special guest. He's been with us before and his name is Ian Wreath and he was a blessing
in last season, season one. I thought he was going to be the first guest, but God had other plans.
And this season, season two, God wouldn't let this season go on without Ian. So while before he got
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delayed because his episode needed to be released in December with heavenly messages, this time,
like I couldn't get any bookings and I'm like, who is the next one? Because I realized this timing
that God puts these guests in, like the order he puts them in, they are for such a time as this.
And I knew that once I booked the right next person, everyone else would fall in line. And after I
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booked with Ian, two other bookings came like within minutes of after that. So this is exactly who we
needed to have with us today. And I hope you're blessed by it. And Ian's going to open us up with
an opening prayer. And before I forget, just mark it in your notes to listen to his episode from
last November. And then you might get a message from the Holy Spirit. So with that, we'll have Ian
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open us up. Thank you, Shelley. Dear God, your name reveals your nature. When Moses asked you,
who shall I say sent me? You say, tell them I am who I am sent you. I am that I am sent you.
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And it's your nature and your wonder is being and becoming itself. The one that always has been and
always will be Alpha and Omega. Your story is at times our drama. But thank you for writing us into
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your book and sharing us with each other so that the story that we're writing together and sharing
in together is a miracle and a miraculous one full of goodness, full of God. And we are on your
podcast and you're in heavenly high name. We pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that. So Ian was, Josh
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doesn't know this yet, but he's about to find out. He's going to find out. So I was talking with Ian
he was going to share and then I was like, okay, I can see why God would want that next in the series.
So I'm sure it will all fall into place. So where would you like to get started?
With a word. Okay. Trauma. Trauma. I think it's one of the most misunderstood words in
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American, Western, especially Christianese vocabulary. It is just, it's very simple,
but it's very profound. You got the big T, the little T traumas. Yeah. And trauma is something
we all experience, but there's a lot of bad press and a lot of misinformation about what trauma is.
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But trauma is also written into the story of Christianity. It's written into the story of
goodness and godliness and everything that is not that. And so trauma, I feel was on my heart. The
moment you asked me what to speak about or what might the message be trauma was right there.
And as God would have it, last night I released a whole bunch of it in preparation for this episode
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with the help of a body of believers that I freshly met was brought into the fold of,
and they'll be mentioned in the podcast. But awesome. So with that trauma. So trauma and as I
understand it, and as I've come to experience it is separation. That's what it is. It's separation.
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Trauma occurs when we have an experience in life that for that version of ourselves at that time
with our current resources and our current equipping and degree of support, all these things,
all the variables accounted for trauma is a pain that impacts us so deeply that we can't
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actually bear up under it. It breaks us in that moment and our spirit, our soul and our self split.
And what happens is psychologically, and we could fragments our mind. And it creates a space where
because this pain is so much as a survival mechanism, our, we sort of had a, we have an out of body,
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out of self experience, our self and soul tear apart. And in that space, pain is trapped.
And the significance of that is that pain does not leave unless and until it is touched.
And released and released and healed. But the problem with that is that when we experience this pain,
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when we re experience it, we call that a trigger. And who wants to be triggered literally no one.
It's like, I want to have my motorcycles. I want to have my motorcycles. I want to have my motorcycles.
I want to have my day. I want to go, I'm at work. I'm in the midst of a podcast episode. I don't want
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to be triggered. I don't have time to be triggered. That's the lies we tell ourselves, right? The
stories we tell ourselves. But trauma and in the Christian vocabulary, we have the word sin,
our hand and glove. They are hand and glove. And so when I say that, what I mean is, and here's a
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little acronym, sin, way to understand it and the way that I've come to appreciate it is it's a
separation in the now from the complete love of God. And God is love. And so if you think about it,
whether on the micro or the macro, sin is a demonstration of separation from the love of
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God that sustains us, that we live and move and have our being that we were created and molded
and made for. And unfortunately, in our short sightedness, we don't recognize that. We don't
recognize that fact that we don't recognize what's actually happening and how it unfolds.
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Yeah. And then so if you think about it, the things that we do out of a traumatic place,
especially if there are habits and patterns that have formed over time, like addiction,
for example, those things are a program. If you imagine you open up your phone or your
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computer or your interface and you tap an app, initiates a program. And so habits and patterns
like that in our lives, they're no different. But a lot of times they form because of past pain.
So a past pain pushes us in a way that we we don't like, we can't stand, I don't want to be triggered,
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right? And so we momentarily seek pleasure and avoid that pain. And then it patterns itself into
a problem and becomes a habit. And then continued separation. And continued separation. That's
exactly right. So the very thing that we need is to acknowledge, accept, and let the pain play out.
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Process. And be with it, process it, and let love enter that space where once there was pain.
There's sometimes that you don't even know you had a trauma from something like trauma can be
from the womb as early as the womb. And this is something we learned with Laura Millican. And she
had a Splongna episode. And Splongna is Christian therapy and it helps you process this trauma.
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And like it's unlike talk therapy, because you might not even know what the thing is causing you
this trigger. And it's like, why am I like this? And it helps you process it. And it's really cool
when they work through it with you and you realize and you think about it and go, man,
that's spot on. That's got to be exactly what it is for this. And I never even gave it two thoughts.
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You know, why would I? Why would I correlate one to another? And I think that's what keeps us in
bondage to some of our trauma. Others, you know, like our typical male response is I can't be bothered
with an emotional response to this. So I'm just going to plow through it like a bison. And so
I think women should be easier at dealing with trauma because they're more in touch with their
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emotions. But I don't believe that they are because they deny that there might be a problem.
And thus we have the male and female dynamic of problems and solutions and care and support and
everything that causes those to fall short, right, in our humaneness, in our imperfectness,
in our humaneness, we mess with that, we interrupt that, or we don't know how to cooperate with that,
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which is really its perfect segue point because so trauma, right, trauma is a separation is caused
by pain. And it's, it also it cleaves deeply into the self to the point where we actually
disidentify with who we truly are at our core. So even the way that God made you and molded you,
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the way that you fire and the way that you're wired, okay, this trauma actually tears you away
from your true identity. And perfect example would be from the biblical story of where Jesus was
tested after his baptism when he wanders off into the wilderness and is tested and tempted by Satan
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in his weakness, right. Same waits till he's good and hungry 40 days and then he slithers his way
in there. But he always first and foremost attacks Jesus's identity if you are the Son of God,
dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, right. But he, but Jesus was so meek. He's like, I don't need to prove myself
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to you. Well, he modeled for us what I was reminded of last night, which is it's in submission
to God that we have remission of sin and separation and we're able to actually have the strength
and the fortitude with God's help to resist evil, to resist Satan, to resist darkness, and then
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the darkness flees, then it's released, then it gives up. But only after we've submitted do we get
to see that remission. It's interesting. I can't wait to do the show notes for this. They're going
to be so powerful. Yes. And so, and just building on that, right, so a little tool for you is
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anytime you say the word if, think about it, pause for a second because you're actually,
consciously or not, you're moving into a fearful, doubtful place. If is a little acronym,
little mini acronym, into fear. If you are the Son of God, Satan's attacking Jesus with fear.
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If you are causing him to, if he buys into that lie, if he makes agreements with that doubt,
then he actually separates from history identity. But this is the same for us. If that is the case,
if, if this is who you say you are, if this is how God made you, if this is truly your name in
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nature, if this is your character, then, but we're always bowing to a lower nature if we submit to
that doubt and that fear. We're always actually relinquishing our power, our authority, our
identity over to a lower nature when we buy into that lie of fear with if. It's like you're stepping
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down from the throne. Like he puts you on the throne beside him and you're just like, oh,
I'm going to get off for a little bit. Yes. And it's, you know, when we're sealed in salvation,
that's where I'm going next, is we're, we're lifted from the pit and put in the palace.
We're put on the throne at the right hand with the Father, with Jesus. And that's our position
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and our grace gift to do with it what we will. But if we submit to God's will, things go better for
us. For sure. I find. Oh yeah, look at us now. Look at us now. I mean, if, if you don't heal from
the trauma, it seems to me that we take a lot more strolls back to familiar and comfort in the pig's
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dye or in the cell, the dungeon, wherever it is that we felt safe before we met Jesus. I feel
that we continually turn to that place until we trust him, until we believe in him. And now I'm
finding out trauma plays a large part in this as well. And I believe healing from that trauma would
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help keep you from running back to that safe space of familiarity. It's not better. It's just comfortable
because you know it. And how sad is that that you would run to a prison cell because you are
familiar that it brings you comfort because you know the walls, because you know the smells,
you know the drip in the corner, you know the spiders, you know the, you know, you know it.
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It's so familiar, but it's not where you want to be. But it terrifies you to leave that place.
It terrifies you to walk into the open love of God that he's provided us in this world, to step out
into true freedom. And I would love to figure out how to fix that for everybody so that we don't
keep running back to that cave. Well, here's a clue. Speaking to that, right? And you're so
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right when you say we go back to that place, retreat to a place that is familiar, that is,
at one time, we perceived it as safe or safer than the danger that's going on.
Yeah, it's like the Israelites. We want to go back to slavery instead of being free and going to the
Promised Land. Right, because it's what they knew. Yeah, yeah, they didn't have any idea. It's what they
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experienced. The glory. Right. They could have been living in. Right. And so- But God's still provided,
even in their disobedience and their eh. They were just like groaning and they're like-
There were a couple of corrections along the way. Yeah. And you notice, when I shared my testimony
last time, I've had several inflection points since then and continuing onward. It's almost like
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God gave me one collapsed vision and message for my life that would take my whole life to impact.
And one of the things I'm realizing per your comment, it acts activating an insight,
like when I was in hell and I was seeing this prison cells that I've talked about and if you
haven't tuned into it, go check out my episode. To assume you will serve back in November of
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23. And I chose, let me tell you- Or December. It didn't mean it was simple or that it was easy,
but I chose. I made my choice, right? But when I was in that place of the pit and the
culmination of human suffering and separation from the love of God that we describe and we
characterize and articulate as hell. When I was in this place, I looked at the other souls that were
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trapped there and they were in prison cells. They were torture chambers. They were being tortured
by the low, the demonic, the dark, the awful things. The doors were not locked.
Were they open? Not open, but a jar. They could have been pushed open. They could have been pushed
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open and walked out of. They were not in any way confined or locked into that place. They were not
sealed into that place. The door was left ajar. The prison was not locked. It reminds me of that one
Lindy Lundy video about the, um, you can walk out. Oh, Eric Ludi. Ludi. Eric Ludi. He had a,
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like a 10 minute, 11 minute gospel. You know what is the gospel and that's part of it was
the door to the prison cell is open. Like walk out. You know, feel the freedom, feel the open air
upon you. And too many of us are cozy in there. You know that we have accepted Jesus as our savior
and that's a powerful thing. That Jesus died for us and most Christians stay there. Sit on that and
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don't like what purpose are you fulfilling there? Like not God's. You're saying that I want this,
but I want it on my terms. And I think God's okay with that. I think he's okay with that. And he's
going to use who he's going to use and you're only going to sit there as long as he lets you sit there.
Right? And if you sit there your whole life, then that's what God wanted you to do, that you were
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an inspiration to someone somewhere that you're unaware of. But that's up to him. That's his
glorious burden. And it is. So one correction I would invite for conversation is that that place
of sin and separation and safety and trauma infused, trauma bonded place of familiarity, right?
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It's blocking our blessing, but there's a very practical reason as to why. This is so, so God.
This is so God to do this, right? Making human beings. He gave us in our humaneness,
certain human needs. And guess what? We have three sets, six total contradictory human needs.
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And one of them, the one of the two juxtaposed two sides of the same coin, one layer of them
is the need for certainty. And it's contrast and it's contradicted with the need for variety,
variety in our experience, its sense of adventure. Because if you think about it, those two things
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are diametrically opposed. You have this certainty, I know that I know that I know this is certain,
this is true. I crave this, I crave this anchor in my life to keep me from drifting out at sea,
right? But then we have this invitation and call to adventure that life offers us. Sometimes in
the small daily ways, sometimes we seek newness of experience in trivial ways. Sometimes it's big,
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grand gestures of goodness that God will offer. Sometimes it's an invitation to go on a journey
and leave all sense of certainty and surrender to all that will come with the journey and the
trials and tribulations that are surely waiting for you along the road. But you're going to be okay.
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But even in our humanists, we have these contradictory needs. It's ridiculous. Think about it. So
my point to you, Josh, is that it's a deception to buy into the idea that we're safe in that place.
As you know, it's a very dangerous place to stay in that place of familiarity, perceived,
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comfort, felt, sense of false safety or security. It's hard to grow there. It's hard to grow there
because you can't go there. You're taken there. You're dragged. It's a safe place by name only.
By name only. You're only there because it's familiar. You're familiar with the coldness.
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You're familiar with the attacks. You're familiar with the aggressors. You're familiar with every
aspect of it. And so it feels safe because you feel like you have some control, which is also
crazy because you have zero control. Zero. Zero. The only thing you would lose is your
illusion of control. The only thing to lose is the illusion of control.
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Profound. What? We could, these mics cannot be dropped. Praise God for that. But we could drop
a mic on that moment right there. I mean, that's, that's powerful. Thank you for that. That's really
good. Wow. So I'm stepping back for a moment. I want to invite you two to come into the conversation
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a little more because I don't, this is not me talking to many kind of thing. This is a conversation.
That's fine. In your experience with your own personal trauma, how hard was it? You said last
night you had a moment. How hard was it to let go of the things of which you held on so tightly,
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consciously or unconsciously, that you deemed was the worthy? And I'm putting quotation marks
with my fingers. You all can't see it. You're safe place. Thank you. There were moments. Okay.
It was, it was profound. There was moments of release and relief and deliverance. And I fought
that, not consciously, but I fought that. I fought to receive it. I fought to open up to it. And it
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was even in that moment and even in this moment, I'm being shown something else about it. Where
out of a traumatic place, I mistook an identity, a characteristic of myself, to be me, but it was
not me and it was never me. And that is the spirit of striving. And I have since a traumatic moment
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happened, maybe we go there, maybe we don't. I'll share what's on my heart to share, but
since that moment and repeatedly since then, I've leaned into an aspect of what I thought to be my
personality, but I was actually in spiritual bondage. I was in a prison that I was choosing to sit in,
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but I didn't know that I wasn't. It's usually the way it goes. It's usually the way it goes. And I
quoted Carl Jung as I do often that until the unconscious becomes conscious in your life,
it will control and direct your life and you'll call it fate. And then my adaptation to that quote
is, as long as the unconscious stays unconscious in your life, it will control and direct your life,
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we'll call it God's will and we'll blame God for the results or the lack thereof.
We'll blame God for the lack of change, the lack of healing. We'll burden him, we'll say it's your
fault, pointing the finger, pride. We don't know what we don't know until we have this revelation
from God. And it's usually in the, like, I don't know, whatever you want to do, God moments that
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he gives us that. I have another question. In this process, how much of it was held on to by your
psyche, by your ego, by yourself? How much was it held on to because of generational curses?
Right? How much have you, has your family invited in that you were born, we're all born in this
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and but how many are specifically tailored to you that when you suffer to trauma and have a deeper
bite, right? It really latched on because I know some people, you know, they struggle with addictions,
but addictions are different. Why is somebody alcoholic? Why is somebody porn addict? Why is
somebody into this or into that? Right? Because they're traumatized in different ways. But is
it generational curse that helps lock these things in? And it is. And it definitely is. And that gives
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it teeth. It makes them stick longer and bite harder. It really does. And, you know, last night,
I was prayed over, I was anointed, I was all kinds of deliverance and support and just, you know,
people gathering around to just to show me the love and support of God.
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It's incredible. That's awesome. And the feeling you feel right now is nothing compared to what
you're going to feel when you're before His presence, right? The awesomeness that you're
feeling, the overwhelming love of God that you can tell, I can see it on your face,
is nothing compared to when you're actually basking in His glory. It's going to be so incredible.
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And I can't even conceptualize it, not even remotely. And you can't. I tried to do it on
that prior episode. I tried to unpack and articulate the glory that awaits us in that heavenly place
and space. But it's words do not suffice. It is truly an ineffable, undescribable, beyond human
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conception of understanding to grasp that. And even for the 10 seconds or 10 minutes, whatever
I got, it was enough to turn the tide in my life and flip the boat and throw me in the water that is
God, the ocean of God's presence and the invitation that He brings us into.
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Ten minutes of God pouring into you is enough for a lifetime.
Yeah, it was more than enough. It was more than enough. And that's another...
So it's crazy. Speaking of generational curses, to speak to that, and the invitations that come
into our family lines, bloodlines, our spiritual DNA, and our generations of our lineage and legacy
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are confounded and confused and stricken by these awful things. And the crazy thing is, it's a...
And I'm reminded of this last night. I had a long extended break from battling the forces of darkness
in my daylight, okay? But last night I got a fresh reminder of the power and the potency of the
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principalities that are at war, not with our flesh. They could care less. They're at war with our
spirit. They're trying to take the glory. They're trying to steal the show. They're trying to
oppress us in rare cases, possess us, and take full control where God is not granted sovereignty
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and where we are poor stewards of that in our life. And for me, there was generational curses
multiple, but fatherlessness is a big one. My father and... Well, me, my father and father before
him, lots of fatherlessness. And that's a serious wound. The father wound is really powerful, very
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deep for a lot of people as we know and... Especially for men, I believe. Yes, yes. And
it's crazy because what was invited into this place of pain and trauma in my life was a stack
of demonic oppression, a stack. Last night we went through a hierarchy of oppression
on my life, on my family line. It's incredible. And I was in utter... Not disbelief, because I
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believed it. It was happening. I was experiencing it. I didn't have any room for doubt. There was no
if. It was happening. Okay? I was astounded at the calling out of entities named the casting out
and the casting down of these powers and oppression over my life. These forces of an
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agents of darkness that are operating behind the scenes, unconscious, removed just far enough away
to be absent, seemingly so, but just close enough to influence, just close enough to taint and to
corrupt and to infuse lies and strife and struggle into my journey. And it's crazy because none of it
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was a me problem. None of it was my father's or their father's problem. The problem is pain.
The problem is pain. The problem is separation. It creates a gap. And as I said, when this trauma
happens, our soul and self-split and in that gap, evil finds a way to find its way into that place
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if we're allowing it. And a lot of times trauma happens mostly in our little life,
mostly in our developmental years, where we don't have the resources or the wherewithal to push back
against it, to fight it, to recognize it, to be aware of it. And so in that place of ignorance,
of just not knowing and not having the wisdom, not having the awareness and the tools and the
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support, evil finds a way to get in there and wreak some havoc. And so with that, it causes us problems
in our life. It leads to patterns in our life and earlier addiction was brought up and I contend with
the modern take on addiction and the interventions that are available because we're never addicted
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to the thing. It's never the alcohol. It's never the pornography. It is never the food. It is never
the person in a codependent situation. It's never the physical thing. It's the feeling. It's the
feeling and underneath of that, it's what drives us to seek the feeling. We're brought into a low
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place. We're brought into a painful place. And so we seek a salve. We're seeking a relief. We're
seeking a lift. We just want to lift. We just want some help in that place. But what we think is
going to help never does it, never delivers or never satisfies its temporary. And so in that place
of pain, in that place of being pushed by the pain, we seek pleasure. We avoid and we push down,
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we repress and suppress the pain. It patterns itself into a problem in our life and then the
habits form around that and package that and seal that and lock that in our flesh and our body.
And it's a ripple effect. That's the problem with desire is once you have it, you realize it was
the wanting that was what drove you. It wasn't the once you have it like, okay, how many people
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have given up on something once they have it? It was the wanting and not the having. In other words,
it was lack that drove us to that place hoping to get lucky, hoping something would work out,
hoping something would stick. It reminds me of Matthew 633, but first seek first the kingdom of
God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added to you. So He'll give you exactly
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what's going to fill that hole and that's basically Him. I heard a pastor talk about the
Garden of Eden and how what the devil tempted us was lack, right? He tempted us with what he said
we were lacking. And this I forget the name of this guy. So if you Google whoever said this,
that's the guy who said it. And they had to walk past to get to the center of the garden where
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this tree was, they had to walk past abundance to either the tree of which they were lacking.
That is the downfall of us is that we continue to seek that where we're lacking and walk past
the abundance that is all around us. So I want to invite some conversation around salvation
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because again I think it's a very misunderstood thing and you highlighted at Josh earlier when
you spoke to how we can get our, we could punch our salvation card, we could make agreements,
we can let Jesus in, let God into our lives and accept that and receive that and but then we
can sit down with that and I think that's a problem that a lot of people face where
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for whatever reason we don't we don't walk in that, we don't continue to grow in that,
we don't continue to receive more of that. They lack the discipleship.
Or they lack belief. They believe that it could be for them. They believe that that God could
really see worth in them. They could really love them. They could really share His kingdom with them
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because when I look at the horrible things I've done, I look at the horrible life I have,
could there be such a being so great, so magnanimous, so outwardly almighty, creator of everything,
could this being that can hold the universe in the palm of hand still regard me?
It is biblical but how hard is it for us to believe that we are the apple of His eye?
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Right? That He didn't just create us as a project. It wasn't just some side thing like hey,
like in a video game, Nathan would play because we're not a side quest. We're the main objective.
He literally created us relationship with Him. Like at the end of the day, He is like a kid on
Christmas morning for the day of the rapture when all His people are there and He gets to have
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everybody that loves Him in His presence. Imagine how excited He is for us and we just are obliterated
by our own self-worth. We are. And even what you said there, I think is a, I don't know, I think,
I know is a systematic deception. Meaning there's a system built in place to attack what you just
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put forth. And it's crazy how deep it goes and I've been pulling on that string for quite a while
just to see where it would lead. But God says, can't speak for God, let me just step back.
The scripture says God makes it rain on the righteous and the wicked. God's love is not
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just for those who love Him. Think about it. God's love is for all. God is love in fullness,
in person, beyond personification, beyond what we can understand as complete or whole or perfect.
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God is love. And if love is truly love, then love does not pre-select who love loves.
Love is period. Love is for all period. Even for those. There's no discrimination. There's no
racism or racism involved in love. Okay, it is pure and it is undultrated. It is true and it is
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complete. The problem is not whether or not God loves us, whether or not God receives us.
It's the problem is whether or not we receive God. And that's salvation. Salvation writes salve,
salway, be well with you, peace. Salvation is healing for the soul. And Jesus' name is not Jesus,
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it's Yeshua, Yahushua, Mahebaru language. Josh. He's at the table. We got a Yahushua with us
right now. And that name means God is salvation. God is salvation. But I wonder how much tribulation
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is unconsciously called into a person's life because their personification of who provides the
salvation. Jesus is lifted to a place that Jesus never claimed. When we make Jesus the end
and the sole source, we get mixed up because Jesus is the door. Jesus is the gate. Jesus is the
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brand and the way of branding you with this seal of salvation. Like a purification straw.
A purification. You're going outdoorsy and you're drinking from the creek with your little
purification straw. You wouldn't do it without it, would you? No. No. But I think what happens is
people overlook God for Jesus. It's the weirdest thing in the world. Jesus, and I looked in the
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scripture yesterday. It's because I wanted to come correct. I wanted to check myself at the door.
And I'm checking my ego. I am. I promise. I promise not to be too bold, but just bold enough
to say, why is it that Jesus never directly claimed Godship? Why is it that when asked,
are you the king of the Jews? And he returns the question to Pilate or returns the submission,
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you say that I am. He deflected. Why? Because he's trying to draw attention to, in his
conceptualization is the Father, the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the overseer of overseers,
the king of kings, the capital C creator. Jesus was just trying to be a signpost to point the way.
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Well, there's many inferences, right? Don't call me good for there's none good but my Father,
right? Why would Jesus say that? Now, Jesus, you know, wouldn't want to take away that Jesus is
the Son of God, that Jesus is God in the flesh, right? He is the conduit of which God uses to
model what we need to be. But Jesus himself says, if you ask my Father in my name, it will be given
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on to you, right? That God is still the sovereign of that Trinity and that Jesus is Lord, but God
is God Almighty. And it is confusing when you consider if they are one and the same. And at
the same time, they're very distinctly different. And I do believe a lot of people pray more to Jesus
than they do to God and they forget that he is the one. He is the waymaker, that he is the miracle,
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he's the miracle maker, right? Jesus created miracles because of God, right? He prayed,
he would talk to God even though he is him, right? That's him. He would still bring his life to prayer,
he would still submit to the will of God, right? And God told Jesus, no, right? Hey, if this could
be passed for me, have this cut passed for me and he didn't get an answer or he did and they
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didn't write it down, but that he had asked three times and he still went to the cross, what do
you think God's answer was? No, I need this to be you. And he did it. And that is the example we
should have as our relationship with God is I come to God and he says, I still need you to do the
hard thing. Okay, you will come into my glory. I promise you, but you need to do this hard thing.
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Mm-hmm. Right, well, Lord, I don't really want to do it, but you will be done. Perfect. And then
tomorrow, Lord, I don't really want to do this, but you will be done. Perfect. Your heart still
aligned with mine. Yes. You're allowed to not like the idea. You're allowed to not like the situation.
You're allowed to not like what's going on, but you are not allowed to be disobedient. Yeah,
you need that obedience. But he still gives us grace for it. And he knew that if in those times
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that we are, and he'll give us another test, he'll keep testing us until we pass. And then we have
another test. So quick thought. We have a Yeshua. We have a Yahushua at the table. God is salvation.
You have a Jonathan, Jonathan at the table. God is gracious. And then we have Michelle at the table.
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Question mark. Who is like God? We have this triangulation of unpacking, you know, the more
the deeper meat and meaning behind the word salvation and how, how we receive it, how we
can accept it, how we can be accepted into and brought into this place of kingdom stewardship
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and ownership and leadership. And it's insane because I can't help but, you know, marvel at the
story that's unfolding right before us in this conversation. Like, it's so good. It's got to be
God. It's so good. It's got to be God. There's just an extra O in there for the, oh, it's,
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yeah, it is. And earlier you brought this up, Josh, the people wrestle with their belief.
And the thing about belief is you'll be living what you believe, even if you'd be lying.
And we live, it's like, if someone makes agreement with an idea, makes an agreement with a belief,
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the test is in the walk, the test is in the step, the test is in the walking that out, right? So
when we believe God, first of all, let's back up for even from there. Who could believe? Who could
believe how good God is? Who could believe how good salvation is that it's free 99?
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It's, it's like, there's no cost. Well, we'll get to that part. But there's no restriction,
no discrimination, no racism, no racism about it. It's a free gift. That's the message of my life.
Everything on my body right now, by the way, was given to me. Every article of clothing was given
to me. My life was given back to me, I almost threw it away. But God met me in that place
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and showed me some meat and meaning behind the word salvation that I could experience. I had the,
I was in the lap of luxury of the father of fathers and king of kings. And I got to taste and see,
I got to experience, I was given that so that I could share it, I learned that later, right? But
I was given that because it's too good that I wouldn't have believed it. We struggled with, if we
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can't believe it, we won't see it and we won't receive it. That's the thing. That's the rub. And
so, you know, consider the cause of rebellion that is the atheist, the, the not to goddess,
right? God is so good and we look at the world that's not entirely good and we can't, in our
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humaneness, in our reason, in our philosophy, in our psychology reconcile those things. And so,
the idea that prospect the offer of salvation by grace, the salvation is a gift of healing for
the soul from God, direct line from all that is and all that is love and all that is good.
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We can't, in our humaneness reconcile with that. And I said to God, as God is standing before me,
in the spirit, you came to me. I said that out of my humanness, out of my disbelief, of my low,
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low, low view of my own worth and value in his sight. That's where that came from. And so,
we believe ourselves to be unqualified to receive the goodness that is salvation as a free gift.
We can't conceptualize or bring ourselves to the revelation of the truth of that.
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It's too much. That's why people wrestle with God. That's why his people are Yisra'el. That's why we
contend and we wrestle with even just the idea of that, approaching that thought, to even entertain
the thought and let it nestle in our heart. I can't do it. Even the act of receiving salvation
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is an act of God. We participate. We allow. We cosine that. But we don't even initiate that.
It's like, dang, I have a small role in this part to play, but I have a role. You have a role.
You're listening to this. You have a role to play. Then it's not small to God. It's not.
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He didn't create you for a small part. It's great for his kingdom. It serves him. It
serves his glory and it serves the people he created. So, it reminds me of the story of the
prodigal son and how the father meets the son, right? Because the son's coming back. I'm not
worth anything. Maybe my dad will have me work and he feeds him better than I'm being fed and
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he maybe he'll let me have it because of who I am. Maybe he'll remember me. And not only does
he remember me, he meets him halfway. The guy probably reeked of pig sty and was probably not
clean and he's kissing him and he's putting a ring on his finger and he's redressing him. He's
having this big party and then it leaves at that and he goes and talks to the brother that's sulking
but we never hear what the brother was thinking that was just redeemed, right? And I think that is
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for our part to think about that this man probably could not believe what he was hearing from his
father, his own father who he's lived with this whole life and he still thinks with this penic heart,
right? This idea that I deserve to pay penance for what I've done. I deserve punishment still
even though I'm back at my father's house. I still deserve this horrible, horrible life to be
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bestowed upon me because I squandered what my father has given me. I knew what I had. I gave it up
and now I'm back to serve for him and he's having none of it and it's a struggle that we all face
that we have a hard time assessing our self-worth because of our sin, because of our our misdeeds,
because of how we've mistywered what God has given us and when he accepts us we have a hard time
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stepping the fact that we are fully accepted, that Jesus paid for us fully, that we are welcoming
God's house fully. There isn't like a down payment that was paid. Yeah, no contingency contract.
There isn't monthly payments. There isn't interest. There isn't anything else to it. You were accepted
fully into it and your self-worth doesn't matter, right? What you feel about yourself is irrelevant
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because God has accepted you and you can go ahead and kick yourself in the butt all day long but
it's not going to change the fact that you've been accepted into the house of God and that he
wants you there and the only person beating you up is now you and the enemy of course is going to
taunt you. Oh, it's always an inside job. Yeah, well, hold on. In us to work against ourselves. I am
the problem. Right. And once we learn that we are fully accepted, once we can accept that we're
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fully accepted then the lies of the enemy get weaker and weaker, get softer and softer. You
bounce off that shield of faith. But that's a process that he doesn't talk about in the
Part of the Son is accepting the fact that and it has to come every day, right? I woke up in my room
and not in the servants quarters. I was fed by the servants. I didn't feed my family, right? So every
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day I'm experiencing the truth that I've been accepted, right? And it's really hard for me
to accept what I'm living in is truth, that this is a fact that God has accepted me and I am not
where I should be. That to me is pretty profound. It's incredibly profound and we live what we
believe even if it's a lie until we encounter the truth. And then we learn, I mean, then we have to
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learn the process of living that and that's that's something of stewardship and discipleship and
submission and surrender and grace upon grace upon notification. Oh yeah, and purification.
But the fundamental lie, though, that people believe that they've already bought paid for,
paid in full, paid with interest, down payment monthly payments, all the payments, okay, the lie
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is actually that we could somehow be separate, truly from the love of God. It can't be done
because you were created in and out of and through love. As was I, as was those that we love, right?
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And God's love knows no bounds. There's no boundaries. There's no break point.
There's no short point, but there is a choice point. The choice point is to accept that sometimes
daily until we get the fullness of the message and we start to live the truth
that actually has the power to set us free from the bondage we're in. But the lie, though,
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don't miss it. The lie is that we could somehow be separated from the love of God because it can't
be done. But we can gloss over that, walk past the abundance, and go to the tree and partake of the
fruit of lie that is the belief that we're somehow separate from God. But Jesus and those like Him
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and learn to walk like Him are beacons of light and hope that point the way and the destination is
always full and final. And it's the Father. It's the love of God Almighty. It's the love of
capital C Creator. And coming into harmony and agreement with that, which is that is being
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and becoming itself. The I am that I am, the I am whom I am, the great I am. It's coming into
agreement with that I am, that name and nature, that all truth and all realness and all revelation
is revealed for us personally, for us communally, and for us ultimately. And that is a scratch of
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the surface of the message of how good God is and how good salvation is. It's so good. We can't even
believe it, but it's not a scam. It's the best thing on offer. It's the best thing on offer.
It's free 99. You just sign up. No, they don't even ask for your contact.
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And ever since the particulate fruit of good and evil, right? We have a hard time believing it's
not a scam. Right. We have a hard time believing anything too good to be true is a lie. But God
is way too good to be true. And yet it's true. And yet here he is. Yes, right, right, right. So good.
I was thinking back to, you don't know this yet, Ian, but the episode before you was Joseph
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Chacon from Ghana, and he was talking about how to live a better life. And one of the ways that we
can lead a better life is dealing with that drama and building that relationship with Jesus. And I
just wanted to do a little segue. And you know, if you haven't received Jesus into your heart,
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I just want to leave you in a little prayer. We learned from season two, episode one of the
gospel winning script. And it just invites you into the kingdom. And I just wanted to share that with
you. Let me quickly share with you what the Holy Bible reads. It reads, for all have sinned and
come short of the glory of God and for the wages of sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life
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through Jesus Christ our Lord. The Bible also reads, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the
Lord shall be saved. And you're whosoever, right? Of course you are. All of us are.
Well, I'm going to say a quick prayer for you. Lord bless this listener and their family with
long and healthy lives. Jesus, make yourself real to them and do a quick work in their life.
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If they haven't received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, I pray that they do so now.
Listener, if you would like to receive the gift that God has for you today, say this after me with
your heart and lips out loud. Dear Lord Jesus, come into my heart. Forgive me of my sin. Wash
me and cleanse me. Set me free. Jesus, thank you that you died for me. I believe that you are risen
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from the dead and that you're coming back again for me. Fill me with the Holy Spirit.
Give me a passion for the lost. Hunger for the things of God and a holy
boldness to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm saved. I'm born again. I'm forgiven.
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And I'm on my way to heaven because I have Jesus in my heart. Now, as minister of the gospel of
Jesus Christ, I tell you today that you and all of your sins are forgiven. Always remember to run
to God and not from God because he loves you and he has a great plan for your life.
I, listener, I want to invite you to find a local church, let the Holy Spirit lead you,
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and go to that church, go to the pastor and the prayer team and say, hey, I received Jesus
into my heart and I need help on what to do next. Jesus wants that relationship with you.
The Father, he really, really wants you to know his kingdom and we're just inviting you into that
today because God and Jesus can change everything. So let the Holy Spirit speak to you. I pray that
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you had someone come to your mind and you can share this episode with them and this podcast
and just build that relationship with Jesus because he wants that better life for you and
he wants you to be free. If this podcast has blessed you, we ask that you can make
a donation or a prayer and there's links on various ways to donate in the about section
(54:56):
of the podcast and we would greatly appreciate the help. All right, with that, we'll talk to you next time.
Welcome to the God's Goodness Podcast, where our mission is to encourage and highlight God's
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goodness and modern-day miracles. We are your hosts, Josh and Shelley Hankins. Today we have
with us a special guest. He's been with us before and his name is Ian Wreath and he was a blessing
in last season, season one. I thought he was going to be the first guest, but God had other plans.
And this season, season two, God wouldn't let this season go on without Ian. So while before he got
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delayed because his episode needed to be released in December with heavenly messages, this time,
like I couldn't get any bookings and I'm like, who is the next one? Because I realized this timing
that God puts these guests in, like the order he puts them in, they are for such a time as this.
And I knew that once I booked the right next person, everyone else would fall in line. And after I
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booked with Ian, two other bookings came like within minutes of after that. So this is exactly who we
needed to have with us today. And I hope you're blessed by it. And Ian's going to open us up with
an opening prayer. And before I forget, just mark it in your notes to listen to his episode from
last November. And then you might get a message from the Holy Spirit. So with that, we'll have Ian
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open us up. Thank you, Shelley. Dear God, your name reveals your nature. When Moses asked you,
who shall I say sent me? You say, tell them I am who I am sent you. I am that I am sent you.
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And it's your nature and your wonder is being and becoming itself. The one that always has been and
always will be Alpha and Omega. Your story is at times our drama. But thank you for writing us into
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your book and sharing us with each other so that the story that we're writing together and sharing
in together is a miracle and a miraculous one full of goodness, full of God. And we are on your
podcast and you're in heavenly high name. We pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that. So Ian was, Josh
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doesn't know this yet, but he's about to find out. He's going to find out. So I was talking with Ian
he was going to share and then I was like, okay, I can see why God would want that next in the series.
So I'm sure it will all fall into place. So where would you like to get started?
With a word. Okay. Trauma. Trauma. I think it's one of the most misunderstood words in
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American, Western, especially Christianese vocabulary. It is just, it's very simple,
but it's very profound. You got the big T, the little T traumas. Yeah. And trauma is something
we all experience, but there's a lot of bad press and a lot of misinformation about what trauma is.
(03:25):
But trauma is also written into the story of Christianity. It's written into the story of
goodness and godliness and everything that is not that. And so trauma, I feel was on my heart. The
moment you asked me what to speak about or what might the message be trauma was right there.
And as God would have it, last night I released a whole bunch of it in preparation for this episode
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with the help of a body of believers that I freshly met was brought into the fold of,
and they'll be mentioned in the podcast. But awesome. So with that trauma. So trauma and as I
understand it, and as I've come to experience it is separation. That's what it is. It's separation.
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Trauma occurs when we have an experience in life that for that version of ourselves at that time
with our current resources and our current equipping and degree of support, all these things,
all the variables accounted for trauma is a pain that impacts us so deeply that we can't
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actually bear up under it. It breaks us in that moment and our spirit, our soul and our self split.
And what happens is psychologically, and we could fragments our mind. And it creates a space where
because this pain is so much as a survival mechanism, our, we sort of had a, we have an out of body,
(05:03):
out of self experience, our self and soul tear apart. And in that space, pain is trapped.
And the significance of that is that pain does not leave unless and until it is touched.
And released and released and healed. But the problem with that is that when we experience this pain,
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when we re experience it, we call that a trigger. And who wants to be triggered literally no one.
It's like, I want to have my motorcycles. I want to have my motorcycles. I want to have my motorcycles.
I want to have my day. I want to go, I'm at work. I'm in the midst of a podcast episode. I don't want
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to be triggered. I don't have time to be triggered. That's the lies we tell ourselves, right? The
stories we tell ourselves. But trauma and in the Christian vocabulary, we have the word sin,
our hand and glove. They are hand and glove. And so when I say that, what I mean is, and here's a
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little acronym, sin, way to understand it and the way that I've come to appreciate it is it's a
separation in the now from the complete love of God. And God is love. And so if you think about it,
whether on the micro or the macro, sin is a demonstration of separation from the love of
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God that sustains us, that we live and move and have our being that we were created and molded
and made for. And unfortunately, in our short sightedness, we don't recognize that. We don't
recognize that fact that we don't recognize what's actually happening and how it unfolds.
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Yeah. And then so if you think about it, the things that we do out of a traumatic place,
especially if there are habits and patterns that have formed over time, like addiction,
for example, those things are a program. If you imagine you open up your phone or your
(07:19):
computer or your interface and you tap an app, initiates a program. And so habits and patterns
like that in our lives, they're no different. But a lot of times they form because of past pain.
So a past pain pushes us in a way that we we don't like, we can't stand, I don't want to be triggered,
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right? And so we momentarily seek pleasure and avoid that pain. And then it patterns itself into
a problem and becomes a habit. And then continued separation. And continued separation. That's
exactly right. So the very thing that we need is to acknowledge, accept, and let the pain play out.
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Process. And be with it, process it, and let love enter that space where once there was pain.
There's sometimes that you don't even know you had a trauma from something like trauma can be
from the womb as early as the womb. And this is something we learned with Laura Millican. And she
had a Splongna episode. And Splongna is Christian therapy and it helps you process this trauma.
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And like it's unlike talk therapy, because you might not even know what the thing is causing you
this trigger. And it's like, why am I like this? And it helps you process it. And it's really cool
when they work through it with you and you realize and you think about it and go, man,
that's spot on. That's got to be exactly what it is for this. And I never even gave it two thoughts.
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You know, why would I? Why would I correlate one to another? And I think that's what keeps us in
bondage to some of our trauma. Others, you know, like our typical male response is I can't be bothered
with an emotional response to this. So I'm just going to plow through it like a bison. And so
I think women should be easier at dealing with trauma because they're more in touch with their
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emotions. But I don't believe that they are because they deny that there might be a problem.
And thus we have the male and female dynamic of problems and solutions and care and support and
everything that causes those to fall short, right, in our humaneness, in our imperfectness,
in our humaneness, we mess with that, we interrupt that, or we don't know how to cooperate with that,
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which is really its perfect segue point because so trauma, right, trauma is a separation is caused
by pain. And it's, it also it cleaves deeply into the self to the point where we actually
disidentify with who we truly are at our core. So even the way that God made you and molded you,
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the way that you fire and the way that you're wired, okay, this trauma actually tears you away
from your true identity. And perfect example would be from the biblical story of where Jesus was
tested after his baptism when he wanders off into the wilderness and is tested and tempted by Satan
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in his weakness, right. Same waits till he's good and hungry 40 days and then he slithers his way
in there. But he always first and foremost attacks Jesus's identity if you are the Son of God,
dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, right. But he, but Jesus was so meek. He's like, I don't need to prove myself
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to you. Well, he modeled for us what I was reminded of last night, which is it's in submission
to God that we have remission of sin and separation and we're able to actually have the strength
and the fortitude with God's help to resist evil, to resist Satan, to resist darkness, and then
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the darkness flees, then it's released, then it gives up. But only after we've submitted do we get
to see that remission. It's interesting. I can't wait to do the show notes for this. They're going
to be so powerful. Yes. And so, and just building on that, right, so a little tool for you is
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anytime you say the word if, think about it, pause for a second because you're actually,
consciously or not, you're moving into a fearful, doubtful place. If is a little acronym,
little mini acronym, into fear. If you are the Son of God, Satan's attacking Jesus with fear.
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If you are causing him to, if he buys into that lie, if he makes agreements with that doubt,
then he actually separates from history identity. But this is the same for us. If that is the case,
if, if this is who you say you are, if this is how God made you, if this is truly your name in
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nature, if this is your character, then, but we're always bowing to a lower nature if we submit to
that doubt and that fear. We're always actually relinquishing our power, our authority, our
identity over to a lower nature when we buy into that lie of fear with if. It's like you're stepping
(12:42):
down from the throne. Like he puts you on the throne beside him and you're just like, oh,
I'm going to get off for a little bit. Yes. And it's, you know, when we're sealed in salvation,
that's where I'm going next, is we're, we're lifted from the pit and put in the palace.
We're put on the throne at the right hand with the Father, with Jesus. And that's our position
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and our grace gift to do with it what we will. But if we submit to God's will, things go better for
us. For sure. I find. Oh yeah, look at us now. Look at us now. I mean, if, if you don't heal from
the trauma, it seems to me that we take a lot more strolls back to familiar and comfort in the pig's
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dye or in the cell, the dungeon, wherever it is that we felt safe before we met Jesus. I feel
that we continually turn to that place until we trust him, until we believe in him. And now I'm
finding out trauma plays a large part in this as well. And I believe healing from that trauma would
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help keep you from running back to that safe space of familiarity. It's not better. It's just comfortable
because you know it. And how sad is that that you would run to a prison cell because you are
familiar that it brings you comfort because you know the walls, because you know the smells,
you know the drip in the corner, you know the spiders, you know the, you know, you know it.
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It's so familiar, but it's not where you want to be. But it terrifies you to leave that place.
It terrifies you to walk into the open love of God that he's provided us in this world, to step out
into true freedom. And I would love to figure out how to fix that for everybody so that we don't
keep running back to that cave. Well, here's a clue. Speaking to that, right? And you're so
(14:33):
right when you say we go back to that place, retreat to a place that is familiar, that is,
at one time, we perceived it as safe or safer than the danger that's going on.
Yeah, it's like the Israelites. We want to go back to slavery instead of being free and going to the
Promised Land. Right, because it's what they knew. Yeah, yeah, they didn't have any idea. It's what they
(14:54):
experienced. The glory. Right. They could have been living in. Right. And so- But God's still provided,
even in their disobedience and their eh. They were just like groaning and they're like-
There were a couple of corrections along the way. Yeah. And you notice, when I shared my testimony
last time, I've had several inflection points since then and continuing onward. It's almost like
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God gave me one collapsed vision and message for my life that would take my whole life to impact.
And one of the things I'm realizing per your comment, it acts activating an insight,
like when I was in hell and I was seeing this prison cells that I've talked about and if you
haven't tuned into it, go check out my episode. To assume you will serve back in November of
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23. And I chose, let me tell you- Or December. It didn't mean it was simple or that it was easy,
but I chose. I made my choice, right? But when I was in that place of the pit and the
culmination of human suffering and separation from the love of God that we describe and we
characterize and articulate as hell. When I was in this place, I looked at the other souls that were
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trapped there and they were in prison cells. They were torture chambers. They were being tortured
by the low, the demonic, the dark, the awful things. The doors were not locked.
Were they open? Not open, but a jar. They could have been pushed open. They could have been pushed
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open and walked out of. They were not in any way confined or locked into that place. They were not
sealed into that place. The door was left ajar. The prison was not locked. It reminds me of that one
Lindy Lundy video about the, um, you can walk out. Oh, Eric Ludi. Ludi. Eric Ludi. He had a,
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like a 10 minute, 11 minute gospel. You know what is the gospel and that's part of it was
the door to the prison cell is open. Like walk out. You know, feel the freedom, feel the open air
upon you. And too many of us are cozy in there. You know that we have accepted Jesus as our savior
and that's a powerful thing. That Jesus died for us and most Christians stay there. Sit on that and
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don't like what purpose are you fulfilling there? Like not God's. You're saying that I want this,
but I want it on my terms. And I think God's okay with that. I think he's okay with that. And he's
going to use who he's going to use and you're only going to sit there as long as he lets you sit there.
Right? And if you sit there your whole life, then that's what God wanted you to do, that you were
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an inspiration to someone somewhere that you're unaware of. But that's up to him. That's his
glorious burden. And it is. So one correction I would invite for conversation is that that place
of sin and separation and safety and trauma infused, trauma bonded place of familiarity, right?
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It's blocking our blessing, but there's a very practical reason as to why. This is so, so God.
This is so God to do this, right? Making human beings. He gave us in our humaneness,
certain human needs. And guess what? We have three sets, six total contradictory human needs.
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And one of them, the one of the two juxtaposed two sides of the same coin, one layer of them
is the need for certainty. And it's contrast and it's contradicted with the need for variety,
variety in our experience, its sense of adventure. Because if you think about it, those two things
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are diametrically opposed. You have this certainty, I know that I know that I know this is certain,
this is true. I crave this, I crave this anchor in my life to keep me from drifting out at sea,
right? But then we have this invitation and call to adventure that life offers us. Sometimes in
the small daily ways, sometimes we seek newness of experience in trivial ways. Sometimes it's big,
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grand gestures of goodness that God will offer. Sometimes it's an invitation to go on a journey
and leave all sense of certainty and surrender to all that will come with the journey and the
trials and tribulations that are surely waiting for you along the road. But you're going to be okay.
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But even in our humanists, we have these contradictory needs. It's ridiculous. Think about it. So
my point to you, Josh, is that it's a deception to buy into the idea that we're safe in that place.
As you know, it's a very dangerous place to stay in that place of familiarity, perceived,
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comfort, felt, sense of false safety or security. It's hard to grow there. It's hard to grow there
because you can't go there. You're taken there. You're dragged. It's a safe place by name only.
By name only. You're only there because it's familiar. You're familiar with the coldness.
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You're familiar with the attacks. You're familiar with the aggressors. You're familiar with every
aspect of it. And so it feels safe because you feel like you have some control, which is also
crazy because you have zero control. Zero. Zero. The only thing you would lose is your
illusion of control. The only thing to lose is the illusion of control.
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Profound. What? We could, these mics cannot be dropped. Praise God for that. But we could drop
a mic on that moment right there. I mean, that's, that's powerful. Thank you for that. That's really
good. Wow. So I'm stepping back for a moment. I want to invite you two to come into the conversation
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a little more because I don't, this is not me talking to many kind of thing. This is a conversation.
That's fine. In your experience with your own personal trauma, how hard was it? You said last
night you had a moment. How hard was it to let go of the things of which you held on so tightly,
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consciously or unconsciously, that you deemed was the worthy? And I'm putting quotation marks
with my fingers. You all can't see it. You're safe place. Thank you. There were moments. Okay.
It was, it was profound. There was moments of release and relief and deliverance. And I fought
that, not consciously, but I fought that. I fought to receive it. I fought to open up to it. And it
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was even in that moment and even in this moment, I'm being shown something else about it. Where
out of a traumatic place, I mistook an identity, a characteristic of myself, to be me, but it was
not me and it was never me. And that is the spirit of striving. And I have since a traumatic moment
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happened, maybe we go there, maybe we don't. I'll share what's on my heart to share, but
since that moment and repeatedly since then, I've leaned into an aspect of what I thought to be my
personality, but I was actually in spiritual bondage. I was in a prison that I was choosing to sit in,
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but I didn't know that I wasn't. It's usually the way it goes. It's usually the way it goes. And I
quoted Carl Jung as I do often that until the unconscious becomes conscious in your life,
it will control and direct your life and you'll call it fate. And then my adaptation to that quote
is, as long as the unconscious stays unconscious in your life, it will control and direct your life,
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we'll call it God's will and we'll blame God for the results or the lack thereof.
We'll blame God for the lack of change, the lack of healing. We'll burden him, we'll say it's your
fault, pointing the finger, pride. We don't know what we don't know until we have this revelation
from God. And it's usually in the, like, I don't know, whatever you want to do, God moments that
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he gives us that. I have another question. In this process, how much of it was held on to by your
psyche, by your ego, by yourself? How much was it held on to because of generational curses?
Right? How much have you, has your family invited in that you were born, we're all born in this
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and but how many are specifically tailored to you that when you suffer to trauma and have a deeper
bite, right? It really latched on because I know some people, you know, they struggle with addictions,
but addictions are different. Why is somebody alcoholic? Why is somebody porn addict? Why is
somebody into this or into that? Right? Because they're traumatized in different ways. But is
it generational curse that helps lock these things in? And it is. And it definitely is. And that gives
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it teeth. It makes them stick longer and bite harder. It really does. And, you know, last night,
I was prayed over, I was anointed, I was all kinds of deliverance and support and just, you know,
people gathering around to just to show me the love and support of God.
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It's incredible. That's awesome. And the feeling you feel right now is nothing compared to what
you're going to feel when you're before His presence, right? The awesomeness that you're
feeling, the overwhelming love of God that you can tell, I can see it on your face,
is nothing compared to when you're actually basking in His glory. It's going to be so incredible.
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And I can't even conceptualize it, not even remotely. And you can't. I tried to do it on
that prior episode. I tried to unpack and articulate the glory that awaits us in that heavenly place
and space. But it's words do not suffice. It is truly an ineffable, undescribable, beyond human
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conception of understanding to grasp that. And even for the 10 seconds or 10 minutes, whatever
I got, it was enough to turn the tide in my life and flip the boat and throw me in the water that is
God, the ocean of God's presence and the invitation that He brings us into.
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Ten minutes of God pouring into you is enough for a lifetime.
Yeah, it was more than enough. It was more than enough. And that's another...
So it's crazy. Speaking of generational curses, to speak to that, and the invitations that come
into our family lines, bloodlines, our spiritual DNA, and our generations of our lineage and legacy
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are confounded and confused and stricken by these awful things. And the crazy thing is, it's a...
And I'm reminded of this last night. I had a long extended break from battling the forces of darkness
in my daylight, okay? But last night I got a fresh reminder of the power and the potency of the
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principalities that are at war, not with our flesh. They could care less. They're at war with our
spirit. They're trying to take the glory. They're trying to steal the show. They're trying to
oppress us in rare cases, possess us, and take full control where God is not granted sovereignty
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and where we are poor stewards of that in our life. And for me, there was generational curses
multiple, but fatherlessness is a big one. My father and... Well, me, my father and father before
him, lots of fatherlessness. And that's a serious wound. The father wound is really powerful, very
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deep for a lot of people as we know and... Especially for men, I believe. Yes, yes. And
it's crazy because what was invited into this place of pain and trauma in my life was a stack
of demonic oppression, a stack. Last night we went through a hierarchy of oppression
on my life, on my family line. It's incredible. And I was in utter... Not disbelief, because I
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believed it. It was happening. I was experiencing it. I didn't have any room for doubt. There was no
if. It was happening. Okay? I was astounded at the calling out of entities named the casting out
and the casting down of these powers and oppression over my life. These forces of an
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agents of darkness that are operating behind the scenes, unconscious, removed just far enough away
to be absent, seemingly so, but just close enough to influence, just close enough to taint and to
corrupt and to infuse lies and strife and struggle into my journey. And it's crazy because none of it
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was a me problem. None of it was my father's or their father's problem. The problem is pain.
The problem is pain. The problem is separation. It creates a gap. And as I said, when this trauma
happens, our soul and self-split and in that gap, evil finds a way to find its way into that place
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if we're allowing it. And a lot of times trauma happens mostly in our little life,
mostly in our developmental years, where we don't have the resources or the wherewithal to push back
against it, to fight it, to recognize it, to be aware of it. And so in that place of ignorance,
of just not knowing and not having the wisdom, not having the awareness and the tools and the
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support, evil finds a way to get in there and wreak some havoc. And so with that, it causes us problems
in our life. It leads to patterns in our life and earlier addiction was brought up and I contend with
the modern take on addiction and the interventions that are available because we're never addicted
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to the thing. It's never the alcohol. It's never the pornography. It is never the food. It is never
the person in a codependent situation. It's never the physical thing. It's the feeling. It's the
feeling and underneath of that, it's what drives us to seek the feeling. We're brought into a low
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place. We're brought into a painful place. And so we seek a salve. We're seeking a relief. We're
seeking a lift. We just want to lift. We just want some help in that place. But what we think is
going to help never does it, never delivers or never satisfies its temporary. And so in that place
of pain, in that place of being pushed by the pain, we seek pleasure. We avoid and we push down,
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we repress and suppress the pain. It patterns itself into a problem in our life and then the
habits form around that and package that and seal that and lock that in our flesh and our body.
And it's a ripple effect. That's the problem with desire is once you have it, you realize it was
the wanting that was what drove you. It wasn't the once you have it like, okay, how many people
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have given up on something once they have it? It was the wanting and not the having. In other words,
it was lack that drove us to that place hoping to get lucky, hoping something would work out,
hoping something would stick. It reminds me of Matthew 633, but first seek first the kingdom of
God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added to you. So He'll give you exactly
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what's going to fill that hole and that's basically Him. I heard a pastor talk about the
Garden of Eden and how what the devil tempted us was lack, right? He tempted us with what he said
we were lacking. And this I forget the name of this guy. So if you Google whoever said this,
that's the guy who said it. And they had to walk past to get to the center of the garden where
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this tree was, they had to walk past abundance to either the tree of which they were lacking.
That is the downfall of us is that we continue to seek that where we're lacking and walk past
the abundance that is all around us. So I want to invite some conversation around salvation
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because again I think it's a very misunderstood thing and you highlighted at Josh earlier when
you spoke to how we can get our, we could punch our salvation card, we could make agreements,
we can let Jesus in, let God into our lives and accept that and receive that and but then we
can sit down with that and I think that's a problem that a lot of people face where
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for whatever reason we don't we don't walk in that, we don't continue to grow in that,
we don't continue to receive more of that. They lack the discipleship.
Or they lack belief. They believe that it could be for them. They believe that that God could
really see worth in them. They could really love them. They could really share His kingdom with them
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because when I look at the horrible things I've done, I look at the horrible life I have,
could there be such a being so great, so magnanimous, so outwardly almighty, creator of everything,
could this being that can hold the universe in the palm of hand still regard me?
It is biblical but how hard is it for us to believe that we are the apple of His eye?
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Right? That He didn't just create us as a project. It wasn't just some side thing like hey,
like in a video game, Nathan would play because we're not a side quest. We're the main objective.
He literally created us relationship with Him. Like at the end of the day, He is like a kid on
Christmas morning for the day of the rapture when all His people are there and He gets to have
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everybody that loves Him in His presence. Imagine how excited He is for us and we just are obliterated
by our own self-worth. We are. And even what you said there, I think is a, I don't know, I think,
I know is a systematic deception. Meaning there's a system built in place to attack what you just
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put forth. And it's crazy how deep it goes and I've been pulling on that string for quite a while
just to see where it would lead. But God says, can't speak for God, let me just step back.
The scripture says God makes it rain on the righteous and the wicked. God's love is not
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just for those who love Him. Think about it. God's love is for all. God is love in fullness,
in person, beyond personification, beyond what we can understand as complete or whole or perfect.
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God is love. And if love is truly love, then love does not pre-select who love loves.
Love is period. Love is for all period. Even for those. There's no discrimination. There's no
racism or racism involved in love. Okay, it is pure and it is undultrated. It is true and it is
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complete. The problem is not whether or not God loves us, whether or not God receives us.
It's the problem is whether or not we receive God. And that's salvation. Salvation writes salve,
salway, be well with you, peace. Salvation is healing for the soul. And Jesus' name is not Jesus,
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it's Yeshua, Yahushua, Mahebaru language. Josh. He's at the table. We got a Yahushua with us
right now. And that name means God is salvation. God is salvation. But I wonder how much tribulation
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is unconsciously called into a person's life because their personification of who provides the
salvation. Jesus is lifted to a place that Jesus never claimed. When we make Jesus the end
and the sole source, we get mixed up because Jesus is the door. Jesus is the gate. Jesus is the
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brand and the way of branding you with this seal of salvation. Like a purification straw.
A purification. You're going outdoorsy and you're drinking from the creek with your little
purification straw. You wouldn't do it without it, would you? No. No. But I think what happens is
people overlook God for Jesus. It's the weirdest thing in the world. Jesus, and I looked in the
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scripture yesterday. It's because I wanted to come correct. I wanted to check myself at the door.
And I'm checking my ego. I am. I promise. I promise not to be too bold, but just bold enough
to say, why is it that Jesus never directly claimed Godship? Why is it that when asked,
are you the king of the Jews? And he returns the question to Pilate or returns the submission,
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you say that I am. He deflected. Why? Because he's trying to draw attention to, in his
conceptualization is the Father, the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the overseer of overseers,
the king of kings, the capital C creator. Jesus was just trying to be a signpost to point the way.
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Well, there's many inferences, right? Don't call me good for there's none good but my Father,
right? Why would Jesus say that? Now, Jesus, you know, wouldn't want to take away that Jesus is
the Son of God, that Jesus is God in the flesh, right? He is the conduit of which God uses to
model what we need to be. But Jesus himself says, if you ask my Father in my name, it will be given
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on to you, right? That God is still the sovereign of that Trinity and that Jesus is Lord, but God
is God Almighty. And it is confusing when you consider if they are one and the same. And at
the same time, they're very distinctly different. And I do believe a lot of people pray more to Jesus
than they do to God and they forget that he is the one. He is the waymaker, that he is the miracle,
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he's the miracle maker, right? Jesus created miracles because of God, right? He prayed,
he would talk to God even though he is him, right? That's him. He would still bring his life to prayer,
he would still submit to the will of God, right? And God told Jesus, no, right? Hey, if this could
be passed for me, have this cut passed for me and he didn't get an answer or he did and they
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didn't write it down, but that he had asked three times and he still went to the cross, what do
you think God's answer was? No, I need this to be you. And he did it. And that is the example we
should have as our relationship with God is I come to God and he says, I still need you to do the
hard thing. Okay, you will come into my glory. I promise you, but you need to do this hard thing.
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Mm-hmm. Right, well, Lord, I don't really want to do it, but you will be done. Perfect. And then
tomorrow, Lord, I don't really want to do this, but you will be done. Perfect. Your heart still
aligned with mine. Yes. You're allowed to not like the idea. You're allowed to not like the situation.
You're allowed to not like what's going on, but you are not allowed to be disobedient. Yeah,
you need that obedience. But he still gives us grace for it. And he knew that if in those times
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that we are, and he'll give us another test, he'll keep testing us until we pass. And then we have
another test. So quick thought. We have a Yeshua. We have a Yahushua at the table. God is salvation.
You have a Jonathan, Jonathan at the table. God is gracious. And then we have Michelle at the table.
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Question mark. Who is like God? We have this triangulation of unpacking, you know, the more
the deeper meat and meaning behind the word salvation and how, how we receive it, how we
can accept it, how we can be accepted into and brought into this place of kingdom stewardship
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and ownership and leadership. And it's insane because I can't help but, you know, marvel at the
story that's unfolding right before us in this conversation. Like, it's so good. It's got to be
God. It's so good. It's got to be God. There's just an extra O in there for the, oh, it's,
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yeah, it is. And earlier you brought this up, Josh, the people wrestle with their belief.
And the thing about belief is you'll be living what you believe, even if you'd be lying.
And we live, it's like, if someone makes agreement with an idea, makes an agreement with a belief,
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the test is in the walk, the test is in the step, the test is in the walking that out, right? So
when we believe God, first of all, let's back up for even from there. Who could believe? Who could
believe how good God is? Who could believe how good salvation is that it's free 99?
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It's, it's like, there's no cost. Well, we'll get to that part. But there's no restriction,
no discrimination, no racism, no racism about it. It's a free gift. That's the message of my life.
Everything on my body right now, by the way, was given to me. Every article of clothing was given
to me. My life was given back to me, I almost threw it away. But God met me in that place
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and showed me some meat and meaning behind the word salvation that I could experience. I had the,
I was in the lap of luxury of the father of fathers and king of kings. And I got to taste and see,
I got to experience, I was given that so that I could share it, I learned that later, right? But
I was given that because it's too good that I wouldn't have believed it. We struggled with, if we
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can't believe it, we won't see it and we won't receive it. That's the thing. That's the rub. And
so, you know, consider the cause of rebellion that is the atheist, the, the not to goddess,
right? God is so good and we look at the world that's not entirely good and we can't, in our
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humaneness, in our reason, in our philosophy, in our psychology reconcile those things. And so,
the idea that prospect the offer of salvation by grace, the salvation is a gift of healing for
the soul from God, direct line from all that is and all that is love and all that is good.
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We can't, in our humaneness reconcile with that. And I said to God, as God is standing before me,
in the spirit, you came to me. I said that out of my humanness, out of my disbelief, of my low,
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low, low view of my own worth and value in his sight. That's where that came from. And so,
we believe ourselves to be unqualified to receive the goodness that is salvation as a free gift.
We can't conceptualize or bring ourselves to the revelation of the truth of that.
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It's too much. That's why people wrestle with God. That's why his people are Yisra'el. That's why we
contend and we wrestle with even just the idea of that, approaching that thought, to even entertain
the thought and let it nestle in our heart. I can't do it. Even the act of receiving salvation
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is an act of God. We participate. We allow. We cosine that. But we don't even initiate that.
It's like, dang, I have a small role in this part to play, but I have a role. You have a role.
You're listening to this. You have a role to play. Then it's not small to God. It's not.
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He didn't create you for a small part. It's great for his kingdom. It serves him. It
serves his glory and it serves the people he created. So, it reminds me of the story of the
prodigal son and how the father meets the son, right? Because the son's coming back. I'm not
worth anything. Maybe my dad will have me work and he feeds him better than I'm being fed and
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he maybe he'll let me have it because of who I am. Maybe he'll remember me. And not only does
he remember me, he meets him halfway. The guy probably reeked of pig sty and was probably not
clean and he's kissing him and he's putting a ring on his finger and he's redressing him. He's
having this big party and then it leaves at that and he goes and talks to the brother that's sulking
but we never hear what the brother was thinking that was just redeemed, right? And I think that is
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for our part to think about that this man probably could not believe what he was hearing from his
father, his own father who he's lived with this whole life and he still thinks with this penic heart,
right? This idea that I deserve to pay penance for what I've done. I deserve punishment still
even though I'm back at my father's house. I still deserve this horrible, horrible life to be
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bestowed upon me because I squandered what my father has given me. I knew what I had. I gave it up
and now I'm back to serve for him and he's having none of it and it's a struggle that we all face
that we have a hard time assessing our self-worth because of our sin, because of our our misdeeds,
because of how we've mistywered what God has given us and when he accepts us we have a hard time
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stepping the fact that we are fully accepted, that Jesus paid for us fully, that we are welcoming
God's house fully. There isn't like a down payment that was paid. Yeah, no contingency contract.
There isn't monthly payments. There isn't interest. There isn't anything else to it. You were accepted
fully into it and your self-worth doesn't matter, right? What you feel about yourself is irrelevant
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because God has accepted you and you can go ahead and kick yourself in the butt all day long but
it's not going to change the fact that you've been accepted into the house of God and that he
wants you there and the only person beating you up is now you and the enemy of course is going to
taunt you. Oh, it's always an inside job. Yeah, well, hold on. In us to work against ourselves. I am
the problem. Right. And once we learn that we are fully accepted, once we can accept that we're
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fully accepted then the lies of the enemy get weaker and weaker, get softer and softer. You
bounce off that shield of faith. But that's a process that he doesn't talk about in the
Part of the Son is accepting the fact that and it has to come every day, right? I woke up in my room
and not in the servants quarters. I was fed by the servants. I didn't feed my family, right? So every
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day I'm experiencing the truth that I've been accepted, right? And it's really hard for me
to accept what I'm living in is truth, that this is a fact that God has accepted me and I am not
where I should be. That to me is pretty profound. It's incredibly profound and we live what we
believe even if it's a lie until we encounter the truth. And then we learn, I mean, then we have to
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learn the process of living that and that's that's something of stewardship and discipleship and
submission and surrender and grace upon grace upon notification. Oh yeah, and purification.
But the fundamental lie, though, that people believe that they've already bought paid for,
paid in full, paid with interest, down payment monthly payments, all the payments, okay, the lie
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is actually that we could somehow be separate, truly from the love of God. It can't be done
because you were created in and out of and through love. As was I, as was those that we love, right?
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And God's love knows no bounds. There's no boundaries. There's no break point.
There's no short point, but there is a choice point. The choice point is to accept that sometimes
daily until we get the fullness of the message and we start to live the truth
that actually has the power to set us free from the bondage we're in. But the lie, though,
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don't miss it. The lie is that we could somehow be separated from the love of God because it can't
be done. But we can gloss over that, walk past the abundance, and go to the tree and partake of the
fruit of lie that is the belief that we're somehow separate from God. But Jesus and those like Him
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and learn to walk like Him are beacons of light and hope that point the way and the destination is
always full and final. And it's the Father. It's the love of God Almighty. It's the love of
capital C Creator. And coming into harmony and agreement with that, which is that is being
(50:29):
and becoming itself. The I am that I am, the I am whom I am, the great I am. It's coming into
agreement with that I am, that name and nature, that all truth and all realness and all revelation
is revealed for us personally, for us communally, and for us ultimately. And that is a scratch of
(50:54):
the surface of the message of how good God is and how good salvation is. It's so good. We can't even
believe it, but it's not a scam. It's the best thing on offer. It's the best thing on offer.
It's free 99. You just sign up. No, they don't even ask for your contact.
(51:15):
And ever since the particulate fruit of good and evil, right? We have a hard time believing it's
not a scam. Right. We have a hard time believing anything too good to be true is a lie. But God
is way too good to be true. And yet it's true. And yet here he is. Yes, right, right, right. So good.
I was thinking back to, you don't know this yet, Ian, but the episode before you was Joseph
(51:42):
Chacon from Ghana, and he was talking about how to live a better life. And one of the ways that we
can lead a better life is dealing with that drama and building that relationship with Jesus. And I
just wanted to do a little segue. And you know, if you haven't received Jesus into your heart,
(52:05):
I just want to leave you in a little prayer. We learned from season two, episode one of the
gospel winning script. And it just invites you into the kingdom. And I just wanted to share that with
you. Let me quickly share with you what the Holy Bible reads. It reads, for all have sinned and
come short of the glory of God and for the wages of sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life
(52:28):
through Jesus Christ our Lord. The Bible also reads, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the
Lord shall be saved. And you're whosoever, right? Of course you are. All of us are.
Well, I'm going to say a quick prayer for you. Lord bless this listener and their family with
long and healthy lives. Jesus, make yourself real to them and do a quick work in their life.
(52:50):
If they haven't received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, I pray that they do so now.
Listener, if you would like to receive the gift that God has for you today, say this after me with
your heart and lips out loud. Dear Lord Jesus, come into my heart. Forgive me of my sin. Wash
me and cleanse me. Set me free. Jesus, thank you that you died for me. I believe that you are risen
(53:17):
from the dead and that you're coming back again for me. Fill me with the Holy Spirit.
Give me a passion for the lost. Hunger for the things of God and a holy
boldness to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm saved. I'm born again. I'm forgiven.
(53:41):
And I'm on my way to heaven because I have Jesus in my heart. Now, as minister of the gospel of
Jesus Christ, I tell you today that you and all of your sins are forgiven. Always remember to run
to God and not from God because he loves you and he has a great plan for your life.
I, listener, I want to invite you to find a local church, let the Holy Spirit lead you,
(54:04):
and go to that church, go to the pastor and the prayer team and say, hey, I received Jesus
into my heart and I need help on what to do next. Jesus wants that relationship with you.
The Father, he really, really wants you to know his kingdom and we're just inviting you into that
today because God and Jesus can change everything. So let the Holy Spirit speak to you. I pray that
(54:30):
you had someone come to your mind and you can share this episode with them and this podcast
and just build that relationship with Jesus because he wants that better life for you and
he wants you to be free. If this podcast has blessed you, we ask that you can make
a donation or a prayer and there's links on various ways to donate in the about section
(54:56):
of the podcast and we would greatly appreciate the help. All right, with that, we'll talk to you next time.
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