March 11, 2025 • 39 mins
Have you ever felt something was off but couldn't quite put your finger on it? Emilee Fisher did—until God revealed the truth in a way she never expected.
Emilee landed her dream job as a speech pathologist, helping children with oral and facial abnormalities. She trusted her boss, loved her work, and never questioned the clinic’s practices—until everything changed. Subtle shifts turned into outright deception as new-age doctrines infiltrated the workplace, distorting faith, healing, and salvation itself. It wasn’t until Emilee faced a shocking crossroads—where her faith, future, and very identity hung in the balance—that she cried out to God for wisdom. And He answered. Swiftly. Powerfully. Unmistakably.
🔥 In this gripping episode, Emilee reveals 3 powerful truths that exposed the enemy’s lies and changed her life forever:
✅ How deception often wears a mask of light—and why discernment is crucial
✅ The moment she realized her faith had been cultural, not personal
✅ The powerful question that transformed her understanding of salvation
If you’ve ever wondered how to recognize subtle lies that twist God’s truth, this episode is a must-listen. Don't miss Emilee’s incredible testimony of grace, rescue, and revelation.
🎧 Listen now—and be prepared to see things differently.
✨ If this episode blessed you, help us spread the truth! Share it with a friend, leave a review, and follow the podcast for more powerful stories of God’s goodness. Want to support our mission? Partner with us financially to keep testimonies like these reaching hearts worldwide.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are you 100% sure that you have a home in heaven?
(00:03):
And I was like, what are you talking about?
I was kind of offended.
I was like, what do you mean?
I'm a Christian.
I was brought up in a Christian home.
Hey there, welcome to the God's goodness podcast.
We are your hosts, Josh and Shelley Hinkins,
and we're here to share real stories of God's power.
Stories of hope, healing and miracles
(00:24):
that both strengthen your faith.
No matter what you're walking through,
we wanna remind you that God is good
and he's still moving today.
Let's dive in.
Today we have with us a special guest.
Her name is Emily Fisher.
We actually met Emily through Elena Delamadrid.
(00:45):
She's a former guest on her podcast
and she knows Emily's story
and she thought it would be a great one
to share with our listeners.
So with that, we're gonna have Emily open us up
with an opening prayer and then we can get into it.
So thank you, Emily.
Yeah, well thanks you guys for having me on.
All right, let's pray.
(01:06):
Father God, I thank you for this day
and I thank you for Shelley and her platform.
I thank you for giving me the opportunity
to share how you graciously worked in my life
and I pray that you would work through me now
and that you would use me to honor and glorify you
and that someone who is listening would be blessed by this
and I pray this all in Jesus' precious name, amen.
(01:28):
Amen.
So thanks for being with us
and where would you like to start, Emily?
You know, I can start with where it all started
at my place of work.
Really, this, yeah, this all happened
at a clinic that I worked at
right after I graduated.
It was my first professional speech pathology job.
So, and I'll preface by saying I grew up in a Christian home
(01:51):
but prior to this experience,
I really did not know the Lord
and I couldn't truly tell you if I was saved or not
before everything happened.
But after I received assurance of salvation,
then I knew for sure.
But so I started working at a myofunctional clinic.
It specialized in oral facial abnormalities,
(02:12):
worked a lot with speech and swallowing, breathing
and I absolutely loved it.
I mean, I worked very long hours for sure
but I did really enjoy my job.
I absolutely loved my boss, adored her, trusted her.
So for a while it was all good
despite just the long hours.
So, and about, I wanna say about seven months into my job
(02:37):
is when things got really interesting.
So we went from this specialized myofunctional clinic
to slowly becoming kind of like a new age healing clinic
because my boss had gotten really involved
in this, I will call it a cult.
It was this very, very evil practice,
(02:58):
ran by a very evil man.
And this was clear through his approaches.
And I know these kinds of people exist
but this guy was different from just your average opportunist
praying on vulnerable sick people.
Like he was, I believe he was 100% being used by Satan.
Yeah.
And by the way, I was very, very ignorant during this time.
(03:21):
I really had no idea.
Like I knew it was kind of, okay,
they got some woo woo ideas, all right, that's fine.
But I had no idea that how dark that it really was.
And I also wanna say too
that I am not against natural or holistic medicine.
That is just the opposite.
So I don't want this to come off as biased.
I just the opposite, I'm against pharmaceuticals.
(03:44):
If you're able to do something naturally
before entering, using pills, things like that,
then I would say go for that.
So I hope that doesn't shed a bad, exactly.
Yeah.
I'd rather pray over it before taking Tylenol.
And then my husband would be like,
did you take a Tylenol?
I'm like, no, I'm still braining about it.
I do both.
I'm kind of one of those.
(04:06):
I plant the seed and wait for the rain.
Yeah.
If God doesn't do it, then bear well.
Yeah.
So just not to shed a bad light on holistic care,
because I think truly that the enemy uses,
wears a lot of different hats.
(04:26):
And this is one of them where I do think
there is a lot of corruption in the medical industry.
And it kind of shows you like,
oh, well, look at all the corruption and here's some truth.
But then they mix it in with the lies.
So just to preface that.
But so yeah, she started bringing these practices
(04:47):
into the clinic.
We were using a lot of these areas with clients
and things like that, very out of place.
We're still at a speech clinic, mind you.
But there was a lot of moving pieces with just very,
just a lot going on with their approaches.
But just to kind of give you like the key points
of what they did.
(05:08):
They used a lot of products for detox, which is good.
They did some deep tissue massage.
That's what they called it.
This was not a massage.
This was like a torture mechanism to,
they would take their elbows or different tools
and would just dig into your body
to break up like calcification,
(05:28):
improve like blood flow.
Kind of made it all sound good,
but it was barbaric in nature.
And then it was the final piece was the doctrine
was like that final healing piece
where like you couldn't fully heal
unless you totally embraced our ideologies.
And that was the most dangerous area of attack.
(05:49):
So what's so interesting to me is that
they went after the key basis for salvation and Christianity.
And of course they only attacked Christianity.
So they would teach you that you would have to unlearn
everything that you've learned and then relearn,
their new age doctrines.
And I think this is worth mentioning
(06:11):
some of the things that they said,
because here's the first one, it seems to a lot of place,
but you are not a sinner is the first thing
that they taught you.
How interesting like how the enemy works
because the prerequisite to getting saved
is admitting that you were a sinner.
What did that actually have to do with
(06:31):
the occupational medicine that you guys would practice?
I mean, and I love Jesus and I love people
acknowledging that they live a life of sin
and Jesus is their savior.
But when you're in a professional setting
where you're using speech therapy, other things,
ear, nose and throat, what would that have anything to do with it?
Yeah, how'd they justify that?
(06:52):
So the way they kind of got away with that
is that there was a lot of separate camps.
So all of our clients, my entire caseload,
it was, I'm working with the kids
with myofunctional disorders,
with speech or tick, things like that.
But then it was the way that they would kind of get the foot
(07:14):
in the door was if there was like a need for detox
and emotional regulation, things like that,
which pretty much everybody can benefit from that,
then you would get kind of referred over
to a different area of the clinic,
(07:34):
like a different practice that's being utilized.
So it wasn't like every client was getting this,
that's for sure, but it was bringing in like new clients.
And we were also kind of encouraged to refer
when there was the need for it.
I'll mention this one thing that really stuck to me.
I did have one client who he had autism was nonverbal.
(07:56):
And it wasn't even with my knowledge.
She kind of, I guess started co-treating him,
my boss by the way.
And she started using a machine with him
that sent him to the hospital for over a week.
So yeah, and I can't mention the name of the machine
and things.
So that's kind of how they would get,
(08:17):
I don't know what she said to them either.
I don't know if she was trying to cure the autism
or what it was, but it was just very sneaky.
It was never like, oh, come and unlearn everything
that you've learned to learn our new age doctrine.
It was never like that.
It was very subtle, every step of the way.
Well, that's how the enemy works.
(08:38):
If he did it, like turning a piece of paper
over everybody would notice.
Exactly.
And then nobody would go along with it.
All of the Christians, everyone with their discernment,
everyone who thinks they have discernment would say,
oh, oh, oh.
But when he does it subtly,
the people that think they have discernment
don't are caught unaware.
Absolutely, absolutely.
(09:01):
And, you know, admittingly, I was hearing these things
because we all had to go through this treatment,
I guess you could say.
It was like mandatory.
My boss said, everybody schedule a day,
come in on your day off, by the way.
Like I was a slave there.
So coming in on a day off was, but,
(09:22):
and so we all had to go in.
So I went through with this treatment
and I can tell you everything that, you know,
she said to me and like all the things that had happened.
So I ended up going through the massage treatment
where they dig their elbows into, you know,
an area of the skin to heal you.
(09:44):
And she worked on me for almost three hours.
And I can't even, it was undescribable pain.
You know, I was all bruised.
She worked on my stomach, my chest area,
and my pelvic area.
And it was just horrendous.
But aside from the pain of it,
I will say that I knew that it was powerful.
(10:05):
I just didn't, I honestly did not know what it was.
I was just so ignorant.
I didn't really know, you know, what was happening.
And I trusted this woman and I thought,
oh, she's very smart.
And she knows what she's talking about.
And throughout this entire process
where they were working on you,
she would say, you need to open up.
You need to let go, you know, all these things.
(10:27):
So it did feel like oddly a very spiritual, dark experience.
But then afterwards is where this was kind of
the crossroads for me is when she started
telling me all these things.
So she started with a, you know, you're not a sinner, right?
And you shouldn't even go to church
because they tell you that you're a sinner there.
And that's blocking you from God.
(10:49):
And, you know, God is high frequency,
all these, you know, things when in fact it's like,
I'm the one who's set free from sin
and she's the one in bondage to sin.
I kind of wanted to go over like some of the key areas
of salvation that the enemy attacked
because I'd like for, you know, anyone who's listening
to kind of recognize how strategic that the enemy is.
(11:11):
Like the, now looking back on it,
I heard these things and it went over my head, you know,
but for someone who knows the true gospel,
they would hear this right away
and they would have that discernment, right?
Yeah, but I did not, but it's clear that the-
So you're going to share like what to be on the lookout for.
So people don't have to go through this
(11:33):
or they gargling through it.
Like, hey, these are things you might want to look at.
Yeah, well, I mean, well, the thing is to be on the lookout,
well, for one, I would say you have to be in God's word,
for sure, I wouldn't say rely on yourself
to recognize anything.
And, but also to know the true gospel.
(11:55):
So, you know, these things,
they did not jump out at me at first,
but once I did know the gospel, then I recognized,
I was like, okay, I can see how strategic, you know,
the enemy is working because anytime you hear something
that it sounds like a counterfeit version of God's promises,
that's when the alarm bell should go off.
(12:16):
So-
It's just like the Garden of Eden
when the devil promised Eve the things that she already had.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
So, and now that kind of makes me think of some of the things
that they brought up.
They really blurred the idea of heaven for one.
So they would say things like,
(12:36):
oh, you know, we don't really know what heaven is,
but we can have heaven on earth, like the earth is abundant
and we should make the most of it here.
And because of course, like, this is the closest thing
to heaven for someone who is on their way to hell.
And then also I'm thinking of some of the things
that they had mentioned, just to look out for.
(12:58):
The, I kind of think of the ongoing concept of self-love.
So if you constantly hear, you know, love yourself,
put yourself first, then I would also,
then those alarm bells should go off as well.
So-
For the latter half of that, I mean, it's okay to love yourself,
but it's not okay to constantly put yourself first.
(13:20):
Yeah, but also-
That's not what Jesus teaches.
And looking at yourself to kind of save yourself too.
So that just reminded me of something
that they would always reiterate is that
no one is coming to save you.
So you can see that if you even had, you know,
the basics, you know, the foundations of faith,
you would hear those things and know.
So, you know, we're not going to save ourselves
(13:41):
through self-love and, you know, seeking higher consciousness
within ourselves and things like that.
Only Jesus can save us.
And we're not going to reach, you know, divinity.
There's a need for a mediator.
That's another one.
Anytime if someone mentions that there isn't a need
for a mediator to God the Father, then, yeah,
(14:05):
then you should be on the lookout.
Yeah.
So, and then kind of after that treatment had happened,
that really shook me up.
So at that point, I really didn't know where to turn.
Yeah, how long were you there before you had that treatment?
About, at this point, it was about eight months,
eight, nine months.
Okay.
(14:26):
Yeah.
So I had been there for a while,
really didn't see myself working anywhere else
or in any other practice.
So, you know, when she said these things to me,
I knew that something was wrong.
And I wanted the truth.
I wanted to align with God,
but I was getting so many winds of doctrine
and just was so confused.
I didn't really know where to turn.
(14:46):
So I was desperate.
And I was very honest with God.
I was like, God, I am not smart enough for this.
You're going to have to show me what the truth is.
Like, are they telling the truth?
Are they telling, are they saying that, you know,
God's word isn't real and all these other things?
You know, what is it?
I'd like to align with you, but I need help.
And it was within a week.
(15:06):
It would quickly and swiftly, he answered my prayers.
And all of these false doctrines were all corrected
because someone had come into my life
and stepped outside of their comfort zone
and confronted me with the question,
are you 100% sure that you have a home and haven't?
And I was like, what are you talking about?
(15:28):
I was kind of offended.
I was like, what do you mean?
I'm a Christian.
I was brought up in a Christian home.
It's not like I murdered somebody.
Yeah, of course I, my goods outweigh my bad.
What do you mean?
And then he took me through just, you know,
Romans road, like, well, you know,
that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
(15:49):
And, you know, there's a need for Christ
and what he did on the cross.
And it's our faith in him that that saves us.
That sounds like the gospel winning script
that we learned about in our first episode of season two.
It's amazing.
And like you can lead others to God within minutes
with that script.
So that's amazing that that's what turned things around
(16:11):
for you and then you start thinking.
So like when he answered your prayers,
were you reading the Bible to find answers
or just like waiting for him to speak to you?
Yeah, like was there a specific verse
that got you through it like an anchor?
You know, when the thing is,
I didn't jump straight into the word as, you know,
as soon as I was given all this information,
(16:31):
it was more the resources and the people
that reached me at the time.
But then after that, yes, I have been in the word since.
And, you know, one of you had mentioned one of the verses,
one of the things that was reiterated to me
is that he gives wisdom abundantly.
So if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God
(16:52):
that give it to all and then liberally.
And that word just liberally really stuck out to me
because he really did.
He not only did he give me the truth quickly,
but he also gave me, you know,
way more than I had even bargained for.
So, yeah.
He sure does.
So he entered your life in a very profound way
because you asked him to,
(17:14):
did you notice a shift in how your fellow coworkers,
your boss, did you notice any shift in how they treated you?
This is so interesting.
So, you know, those are the people that I basically,
I was just around 24 seven.
And they, we didn't really talk about it.
(17:34):
There was a lot of fear within the clinic.
I think there was, people were starting to question,
but no one, like I said, is, no one said it out loud
because people were kind of afraid of our boss.
Or to go the opposite way.
And then I started kind of sprinkling in like,
guys, I don't know so much about the,
I still didn't know for sure.
(17:55):
All I know was that, you know, something was wrong.
Yeah, that gut feeling is the Holy Spirit.
For those of you who don't know,
that gut feeling is your Holy Spirit.
Trying to talk to you.
Yes, I am.
Yeah.
I was scared because, you know,
I was afraid to confront my boss.
I was afraid to confront my coworkers
(18:16):
who seemed to be fully embracing the new practices,
by the way.
And so I felt very alone in all of it.
And I had to, you know, I have to be there all the time.
And I had, it's just,
It's hard to be the first to say something.
Exactly.
Yeah, it was.
But then once you find out other people are thinking
(18:37):
like you are, you're like, hmm, then you gain the momentum.
So then what were the, where were the next things to happen?
So after you did that, you had that experience
with the deep tissue thing.
And then you had God speaking to you.
Mm-hmm.
So here I am, I'm given all this truth.
I know that I have to be on my way out.
Something I really wanted to mention quickly is that
(19:00):
God really took care of me during that time
because I was very scared.
You know, I got this all information, you know, new.
And my coworkers were not on board at first.
However, there was a Christian,
it was my colleague's boyfriend who was a believer
who looked into this man and was,
(19:21):
and brought it to her attention and was like,
he did all this research on him and was like,
Hey, did you know that this guy has a history of scandals
and that he's in an investigation right now
and all these other things?
And, you know, I didn't even look into him,
but it just goes to show that a Christian
can have that discernment and he wasn't even there.
(19:43):
You know what I mean?
So then he brought it to her and then she brought it,
you know, to the clinic that,
hey, you guys, did you know about this?
And that is when everybody started to shift.
So just so you know, everything kind of all came to a head
and everybody was on the same page miraculously.
So-
Is only God can do.
(20:05):
Yeah.
So that in itself was a miracle
and it took so much pressure off me
because like honestly during this time,
it was just taking years of my life
because I was under so much tremendous stress.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, and something else worth mentioning is that
there were more non-believers there than believers
(20:26):
and yet everybody, it's like God's will still happened.
So I'll talk about the next steps.
This cult leader, by the way, he came to our clinic
and he hosted like a three day event and it's just very dark
and everybody kind of had enough already.
So when he came, everybody knew that he was not
(20:49):
who he said he was.
He couldn't, you know, charm everybody
and people kind of saw right through him and his practices.
At the end of the week, when he had gone, you know, back home,
we had all decided to have a meeting with our boss
and we kind of gave her,
we just drew the line in the sand.
We said, listen, we've had clients who have been injured.
(21:10):
I'm thinking of the one kid that I told you about.
Now, you know, this guy, we simply do not trust him
and this isn't an accreditive practice.
So, you know, either you have to go back to the clinic
that we were all hired onto or we're all leaving
and everybody ended up leaving that same day, just quitting.
(21:33):
I guess we got an answer then.
Yeah, yeah, so really, really.
And here's the thing too is I'm such a people pleaser
and I wanted to stay there for her sake
because I really do love her, my boss.
And I thought, you know what, I'll just,
I'll give her a month and, you know,
(21:53):
I can't leave my clients this and that.
Like I had such a pull, like my natural tendencies
and it's very fleshful to, you know, be a people pleaser
and I recognize that, but I wanted so badly to stay there.
But I had that gut feeling not to go back.
I knew that I was supposed to be taken out of that clinic.
Every time I wanted to, to say to myself,
(22:16):
okay, I'll just go back, I felt that pull from God.
Like no, it's not, like it's not even an option.
You cannot go back.
It is not safe.
It was not safe.
And the thing is, I don't know if I could be there
for a whole month and confidently say
that nothing would happen if it was just me
and her in the clinic.
(22:37):
You know what I mean?
So there was that safety issue, which really kind of,
it's like the Lord kept reminding me,
you'll be there alone in that clinic and it's not safe.
So, and yeah, and that's what happened.
After that, I've been on fire for God's sins.
That's awesome. I've been to a church and that I really love.
(22:57):
Yeah. And it's just been,
I've been looking for ways to serve the Lord ever since
and things have just not been the same.
Just so many things have changed since then.
In retrospect, growing up in a Christian family
and then having this happen
before you started really leaning into God,
do you believe that you actually were a Christian
in hindsight in the beginning?
(23:18):
Or if you just thought you were
because you were raised that way? It's hard to say.
You know, I thought that I was a Christian,
but the gospel did not penetrate my heart, not at all.
Yeah, it wasn't until after this.
And then when I heard it and accepted it
and personally called upon the Lord,
(23:39):
that's, I didn't have the same feeling that I had afterwards.
That's for sure.
I honestly couldn't tell you if I was saved or not.
And he swiftly corrected the false teachings around you,
right?
Yes.
What do you think that reveals about his character?
That he does not want us to be deceived.
Yeah, I really, he does not want us to be led
(24:01):
to a blind faith.
And he wants us to respond to truth correctly as well.
Cause then he just kept revealing more and more truth
to me liberally, more than I could almost handle.
So you mentioned he doesn't want us to be deceived.
What are subtle deceptions do you think
that are really dangerous to believers today?
Like how can we discern them?
(24:23):
Yeah, so kind of going back to the anything that goes,
that goes against God and his word,
the anything that offers counterfeit of God's promises.
Yeah.
One of the biggest things we've been dealing with
since season two started is spiritual warfare.
It is crazy.
(24:44):
And so what did this experience teach you
about spiritual warfare?
Oh gosh, you know, it's so interesting.
Once I've had, you know, this experience
and I had, you know, this sense of urgency
to start serving God more and, you know,
seeing the world for what it is,
(25:05):
I did not experience spiritual warfare before
like I do now.
Yeah.
And certainly, at least for me personally,
the attack of the mind is a tool
that the enemy uses.
And it's, I think it's important to be conscious of that too,
because you can kind of spiral.
And I think that's how the enemy just tries to exhaust you
and, you know, pull you away from, you know,
(25:28):
completing what God has set forth for you.
So it's important to kind of catch it and stop it
and then pray about it.
As soon as you feel like something is not coming from God.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
So if someone listening is currently
in a place of confusion about their faith,
like what would you say to them right now?
(25:51):
I would involve God.
Yeah, ask God for wisdom and for understanding.
Yeah.
That reminds me of this listening prayer thing
I've recently learned about.
And one of the things you can do is you journal with God
and you write down your questions.
So you have a Q and A session.
So not only like a real relationship with somebody,
you know, just talk, talk, talk and then walk away.
(26:13):
Right.
Oh yeah.
And wait for them to respond.
So you have your Q, but then put A.
So when he answers, be prepared to write down
what he does say.
So you listen for what he has to say.
So listening prayers, they can be effective.
And then if you're wondering, is this from me
or is this God?
Like if it's good and it aligns up with his character
(26:37):
that is revealed to us through his word,
then you can rest assured it is from him.
And sometimes it'll bring you to tears too
with the encouragement that he can offer.
Yeah, I agree.
I think bottom line, your first line of defense
against the wiles of the enemy is the word of God.
Amen.
If you're not in the word,
you don't know you're being deceived.
And if you think the enemy doesn't know the word,
(26:59):
you're fooling yourself
because he tempted Jesus by using the word.
Right.
So the enemy does know the word
and he will absolutely use it at a contest
to suit his needs.
He will absolutely use something good to so evil.
Absolutely.
Like that's the biggest trick
I think Christians don't realize
is it's not just flipping over the page.
It's not an obvious thing.
(27:20):
Eve was tempted with good, right?
She saw the fruit was good to eat.
She wasn't tempted with evil.
She was like, oh, that's nasty.
You're the force to eat that one, right?
She liked everything it represented
because it sounded good.
And Adam's like, hey man,
you didn't die when you ate it.
So I'll have some too.
I want that.
That sounds really good.
(27:41):
He doesn't tempt us with evil.
He tempts us with good.
And that's why discernment is,
I believe is such an important step
and that's why being in the word,
oh, be in the word.
Cause if you don't know, you don't know.
Yeah.
You could be told 90% the truth
and he'll slip in that 10% line.
You won't know because you heard all the truth
and you were satisfied.
And then you can combat that like Jesus did
(28:04):
with more of the word.
It's like, no, no, it says,
and you don't even need to know the verse.
Exactly.
The so-called address.
As long as you know it in your heart, what it says,
you can look up what verse it is later.
Was there any pivotal prayers during that time
that you like really leaned into
or prayed more than any other?
Honestly, when I think back to that time,
it was the plea for wisdom is what stuck out for me.
(28:28):
Yeah.
Because I know that's what he answered.
Yeah.
So just praying for wisdom
and also spiritual protection as well
because I did end up going through
some spiritual warfare after the fact.
And I didn't even know what was really going on.
I didn't know what was happening to me.
So yeah, also praying for spiritual protection.
Yeah.
(28:48):
So what did that spiritual warfare look like elsewhere?
If you want to share.
It's kind of crazy.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
I'm not really sure if it was because I was in the clinic
and just like all the dark practices
if I had gone through the treatment or what it was.
But I did go through about four days
of just very, very intense spiritual warfare
(29:11):
where it looked like I was just very paranoid.
I could tell that like something was there with me.
Like I was terrified to drive and be in like a confined space.
Yeah.
Like driving home was terrible
because it was already dark outside.
And, you know, oh, now's another thing.
It was physically dark.
(29:32):
Like if I went outside and it was, you know, the sun was out.
It was almost like I was wearing sunglasses.
It's something like I can't even describe it.
But I like I said, I didn't know what was happening.
I was just thinking, oh, maybe I'm just under a man's stress.
And, you know, I'm kind of, you know,
dealing with a hard time right now.
But then I realized I was like, oh, dummy, you're being afflicted.
(29:53):
Like you're going through spiritual warfare,
like very thick spiritual warfare.
And, you know, going back to the prayer, then I remember
I was on a walk and I thought, oh, I prayed for wisdom
and forgot to, you know, lift the veil.
And it's like he really did because at that point,
(30:14):
I was able to see the world for what it really was.
Like we hear, oh, you know, we're in a fallen world.
But then I recognized I was like, no, he meant it.
We really are in a fallen world.
And I was just seeing the tip of the iceberg.
Everywhere.
You cannot miss it.
There is no subtlety to it.
Exactly. Yeah.
(30:35):
Yeah. So it was almost like, OK, you want to see the truth.
Like this here's some of the truth, you know.
And, you know, because if I were to see really how evil everything was,
it's like I probably wouldn't want to get out of it.
It would just cripple me, right?
But it's like those glasses that you put on and it reveals the truth.
Was it a movie or just a cartoon?
There was a movie like that a long time ago with Rowdy Roddy Piper.
(30:57):
Yeah, it's like the scary stuff that when he sees when he puts these glasses on,
he's like, what?
And people are walking around because they don't see it
and they don't think anything of it.
It's because they're OK with it.
You know, we live in a society where people are taught to love themselves
above all others, where to help somebody else is to be the most extreme
character they can give.
And they only have to do it once or twice a year.
(31:19):
It's not a requirement, but, you know, sometimes they feel obligated.
We all eat lies when our hearts are hungry.
And God created us as spiritual beings.
And if we do not lean into his spirit, we are going to lean into a different one.
Just because that's how he made us.
For relationship as spiritual beings, and he chooses us.
(31:39):
And we just need to choose him back.
But we don't all the time because of weird ways.
Kundalini Scientology, you know, there's so many different outlets
that we're trying to figure out, like, well, if it's not God, then it might be this.
And the demons are all too happy.
But yeah, that's it. It's this.
That's exactly right. You're right. You're at home now.
Yeah, anything to get you to settle for the crumbs of this world.
(32:04):
That is what they want.
Yeah. And it's just spiritual blindness, too, of it all.
And it's like people want to be spiritually blind.
Sometimes I think there's comfortability in, you know, just.
Not swallowing the hard pills of how wicked the world really is.
It's almost easier to not see the truth.
(32:25):
It's like we're ashamed without the truth.
We're ashamed without Jesus of being called out on our nonsense.
And that we're afraid of Jesus is in our life.
He's going to call us on our nonsense and we're going to hate ourselves.
And that's not it at all.
Like it's like he doesn't call us out of their nonsense.
He doesn't condemn us on it. He just forgives us of our nonsense.
And he says, hey, I got a better way if you want to live nonsense free.
(32:47):
Yes, I so wish people understood the character of God
and just his love and his mercy and grace.
I so wish people understood that promise.
Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
If you had to describe this experience in one sense as a testimony to God's power,
what would you say, Emily?
(33:09):
I would say this is a reflection of God's mercy and truth.
It reminds me of Psalm 81 where he talks about mercy and truth are brought together.
And, you know, I recognize so much
the grace that God showed me during this experience.
Hmm. I love that.
(33:30):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm so glad.
I just said, yeah, like.
You don't need to apologize.
No, I'm sorry.
Like every time I think about like it's OK.
I get it. When the Holy Spirit fills me up, I just we have a box of tissues here.
We are prepared because it happens every episode.
But he's there. You can just feel it.
(33:54):
Yeah. And I kind of understand, you know,
how God has used me in this because, like, I know,
like I have no choice to glorify God because it could have gone either way, you know?
And it was just through his mercy that he really showed me grace and was like
and he just interrupted the busy life and
(34:14):
and just led me to the correct path and it could not have been me.
I know that 100 percent.
So just recognizing, you know, how loving he is
and pulling me out of deception.
I'm grateful for every single day.
I'm thinking of Psalm 139, verse 17 and 18.
(34:35):
It says, how precious also are thy thoughts on to me, oh God,
how great is the sum of them?
If I should count them, they are more number than the sand.
When I awake, I am still with thee.
This is the same God for everybody, not just the writer of Psalm 139.
This is the same God that you are precious
(34:56):
and every thought he has, you're precious to him.
And yet you did something dumb, precious to him.
Yep, you did something right, precious to him.
It's not about what we do.
It's about who we put our faith in, who we want a relationship with.
And when we want him, when we have that relationship with his son,
when we declare him as our Lord and Savior,
we often find ourselves not wanting to do those things
(35:17):
to take us away from him.
We often, like just naturally, right?
Without even being in the Word, we'll naturally steer away
because we want to be closer to his heart,
which is away from those things.
And being in the Word just helps accelerate that process.
Being near Christians and fellowship helps accelerate that process.
Having quiet time with him helps accelerate that process.
But giving your heart to him is this first step.
(35:39):
Amen.
I mean, he's already given his heart to you.
Yeah.
Yeah, and just like everything that I do, it's like you follow God.
It should be out of just gratitude.
Recognizing the state that we were in.
(36:01):
And like he came down on a rescue mission for us.
And he came down on a rescue mission for us.
And you know, people are like, oh, you know, free grace,
you know, it's just a license to sin.
It's like, no, no, no, every, we stay within the parameters
out of just gratitude from the God who is saved us.
Yes.
(36:23):
We're not looking at ourselves as someone who is free to sin.
We look at ourselves as, yeah, we still sin occasionally.
We try not to.
But when I'm before the court, when I'm judged at the end of it all,
I'm just Jesus who stands on the scale for me.
It's his righteousness that's judged.
And even though I deserve it, he had already taken the punishment for me.
Accepting that will free you for everything.
(36:45):
Amen.
I would love to share the gospel winning script with everybody
before the end of this episode, because that was what hit you.
And maybe it'll, you can take someone else can take it with them.
So it goes, has anyone told you that God loves you and that he has a wonderful plan for your life?
I have a real quick, but important question to ask you.
(37:07):
If you were to die this very second, would you know for sure without a shadow of a doubt that you would go to heaven?
Let me quickly share with you what the Holy Bible reads.
We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and for the wages of sin is death.
And the Bible also says that whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And you're a whosoever, right?
(37:29):
Repeat after me, dear Lord Jesus, come into my heart, forgive me of my sins.
I ask to be away from my old life.
My sins are forgiven.
Write my name in the Lamb's book of life.
Today I'm a new person.
If you prayed that we, we are with you.
Amen.
And we ask that you share that with somebody because then maybe they can help you take the next steps.
(37:53):
And then you can find some other believers to help you with the next steps because you don't want to be floundering like my husband did.
And have to totally rely on only God to help disciple him.
Oh yeah.
I had no human, no human took me under their wing and disciple me and I never fell away and God literally took the reins himself.
(38:14):
Which is awesome.
A great experience.
They recommend nobody have to do that.
But if you do, God is a great, great disciple.
He knows what he's doing.
It's like he's done it a couple of times.
(38:52):
God is always working.
Miracles are real.
And your breakthrough could be just around the corner.
Keep believing.
Keep expecting.
And don't forget to share this with someone who needs hope today.
We'll talk to you next week.
Are you 100% sure that you have a home in heaven?
(00:03):
And I was like, what are you talking about?
I was kind of offended.
I was like, what do you mean?
I'm a Christian.
I was brought up in a Christian home.
Hey there, welcome to the God's goodness podcast.
We are your hosts, Josh and Shelley Hinkins,
and we're here to share real stories of God's power.
Stories of hope, healing and miracles
(00:24):
that both strengthen your faith.
No matter what you're walking through,
we wanna remind you that God is good
and he's still moving today.
Let's dive in.
Today we have with us a special guest.
Her name is Emily Fisher.
We actually met Emily through Elena Delamadrid.
(00:45):
She's a former guest on her podcast
and she knows Emily's story
and she thought it would be a great one
to share with our listeners.
So with that, we're gonna have Emily open us up
with an opening prayer and then we can get into it.
So thank you, Emily.
Yeah, well thanks you guys for having me on.
All right, let's pray.
(01:06):
Father God, I thank you for this day
and I thank you for Shelley and her platform.
I thank you for giving me the opportunity
to share how you graciously worked in my life
and I pray that you would work through me now
and that you would use me to honor and glorify you
and that someone who is listening would be blessed by this
and I pray this all in Jesus' precious name, amen.
(01:28):
Amen.
So thanks for being with us
and where would you like to start, Emily?
You know, I can start with where it all started
at my place of work.
Really, this, yeah, this all happened
at a clinic that I worked at
right after I graduated.
It was my first professional speech pathology job.
So, and I'll preface by saying I grew up in a Christian home
(01:51):
but prior to this experience,
I really did not know the Lord
and I couldn't truly tell you if I was saved or not
before everything happened.
But after I received assurance of salvation,
then I knew for sure.
But so I started working at a myofunctional clinic.
It specialized in oral facial abnormalities,
(02:12):
worked a lot with speech and swallowing, breathing
and I absolutely loved it.
I mean, I worked very long hours for sure
but I did really enjoy my job.
I absolutely loved my boss, adored her, trusted her.
So for a while it was all good
despite just the long hours.
So, and about, I wanna say about seven months into my job
(02:37):
is when things got really interesting.
So we went from this specialized myofunctional clinic
to slowly becoming kind of like a new age healing clinic
because my boss had gotten really involved
in this, I will call it a cult.
It was this very, very evil practice,
(02:58):
ran by a very evil man.
And this was clear through his approaches.
And I know these kinds of people exist
but this guy was different from just your average opportunist
praying on vulnerable sick people.
Like he was, I believe he was 100% being used by Satan.
Yeah.
And by the way, I was very, very ignorant during this time.
(03:21):
I really had no idea.
Like I knew it was kind of, okay,
they got some woo woo ideas, all right, that's fine.
But I had no idea that how dark that it really was.
And I also wanna say too
that I am not against natural or holistic medicine.
That is just the opposite.
So I don't want this to come off as biased.
I just the opposite, I'm against pharmaceuticals.
(03:44):
If you're able to do something naturally
before entering, using pills, things like that,
then I would say go for that.
So I hope that doesn't shed a bad, exactly.
Yeah.
I'd rather pray over it before taking Tylenol.
And then my husband would be like,
did you take a Tylenol?
I'm like, no, I'm still braining about it.
I do both.
I'm kind of one of those.
(04:06):
I plant the seed and wait for the rain.
Yeah.
If God doesn't do it, then bear well.
Yeah.
So just not to shed a bad light on holistic care,
because I think truly that the enemy uses,
wears a lot of different hats.
(04:26):
And this is one of them where I do think
there is a lot of corruption in the medical industry.
And it kind of shows you like,
oh, well, look at all the corruption and here's some truth.
But then they mix it in with the lies.
So just to preface that.
But so yeah, she started bringing these practices
(04:47):
into the clinic.
We were using a lot of these areas with clients
and things like that, very out of place.
We're still at a speech clinic, mind you.
But there was a lot of moving pieces with just very,
just a lot going on with their approaches.
But just to kind of give you like the key points
of what they did.
(05:08):
They used a lot of products for detox, which is good.
They did some deep tissue massage.
That's what they called it.
This was not a massage.
This was like a torture mechanism to,
they would take their elbows or different tools
and would just dig into your body
to break up like calcification,
(05:28):
improve like blood flow.
Kind of made it all sound good,
but it was barbaric in nature.
And then it was the final piece was the doctrine
was like that final healing piece
where like you couldn't fully heal
unless you totally embraced our ideologies.
And that was the most dangerous area of attack.
(05:49):
So what's so interesting to me is that
they went after the key basis for salvation and Christianity.
And of course they only attacked Christianity.
So they would teach you that you would have to unlearn
everything that you've learned and then relearn,
their new age doctrines.
And I think this is worth mentioning
(06:11):
some of the things that they said,
because here's the first one, it seems to a lot of place,
but you are not a sinner is the first thing
that they taught you.
How interesting like how the enemy works
because the prerequisite to getting saved
is admitting that you were a sinner.
What did that actually have to do with
(06:31):
the occupational medicine that you guys would practice?
I mean, and I love Jesus and I love people
acknowledging that they live a life of sin
and Jesus is their savior.
But when you're in a professional setting
where you're using speech therapy, other things,
ear, nose and throat, what would that have anything to do with it?
Yeah, how'd they justify that?
(06:52):
So the way they kind of got away with that
is that there was a lot of separate camps.
So all of our clients, my entire caseload,
it was, I'm working with the kids
with myofunctional disorders,
with speech or tick, things like that.
But then it was the way that they would kind of get the foot
(07:14):
in the door was if there was like a need for detox
and emotional regulation, things like that,
which pretty much everybody can benefit from that,
then you would get kind of referred over
to a different area of the clinic,
(07:34):
like a different practice that's being utilized.
So it wasn't like every client was getting this,
that's for sure, but it was bringing in like new clients.
And we were also kind of encouraged to refer
when there was the need for it.
I'll mention this one thing that really stuck to me.
I did have one client who he had autism was nonverbal.
(07:56):
And it wasn't even with my knowledge.
She kind of, I guess started co-treating him,
my boss by the way.
And she started using a machine with him
that sent him to the hospital for over a week.
So yeah, and I can't mention the name of the machine
and things.
So that's kind of how they would get,
(08:17):
I don't know what she said to them either.
I don't know if she was trying to cure the autism
or what it was, but it was just very sneaky.
It was never like, oh, come and unlearn everything
that you've learned to learn our new age doctrine.
It was never like that.
It was very subtle, every step of the way.
Well, that's how the enemy works.
(08:38):
If he did it, like turning a piece of paper
over everybody would notice.
Exactly.
And then nobody would go along with it.
All of the Christians, everyone with their discernment,
everyone who thinks they have discernment would say,
oh, oh, oh.
But when he does it subtly,
the people that think they have discernment
don't are caught unaware.
Absolutely, absolutely.
(09:01):
And, you know, admittingly, I was hearing these things
because we all had to go through this treatment,
I guess you could say.
It was like mandatory.
My boss said, everybody schedule a day,
come in on your day off, by the way.
Like I was a slave there.
So coming in on a day off was, but,
(09:22):
and so we all had to go in.
So I went through with this treatment
and I can tell you everything that, you know,
she said to me and like all the things that had happened.
So I ended up going through the massage treatment
where they dig their elbows into, you know,
an area of the skin to heal you.
(09:44):
And she worked on me for almost three hours.
And I can't even, it was undescribable pain.
You know, I was all bruised.
She worked on my stomach, my chest area,
and my pelvic area.
And it was just horrendous.
But aside from the pain of it,
I will say that I knew that it was powerful.
(10:05):
I just didn't, I honestly did not know what it was.
I was just so ignorant.
I didn't really know, you know, what was happening.
And I trusted this woman and I thought,
oh, she's very smart.
And she knows what she's talking about.
And throughout this entire process
where they were working on you,
she would say, you need to open up.
You need to let go, you know, all these things.
(10:27):
So it did feel like oddly a very spiritual, dark experience.
But then afterwards is where this was kind of
the crossroads for me is when she started
telling me all these things.
So she started with a, you know, you're not a sinner, right?
And you shouldn't even go to church
because they tell you that you're a sinner there.
And that's blocking you from God.
(10:49):
And, you know, God is high frequency,
all these, you know, things when in fact it's like,
I'm the one who's set free from sin
and she's the one in bondage to sin.
I kind of wanted to go over like some of the key areas
of salvation that the enemy attacked
because I'd like for, you know, anyone who's listening
to kind of recognize how strategic that the enemy is.
(11:11):
Like the, now looking back on it,
I heard these things and it went over my head, you know,
but for someone who knows the true gospel,
they would hear this right away
and they would have that discernment, right?
Yeah, but I did not, but it's clear that the-
So you're going to share like what to be on the lookout for.
So people don't have to go through this
(11:33):
or they gargling through it.
Like, hey, these are things you might want to look at.
Yeah, well, I mean, well, the thing is to be on the lookout,
well, for one, I would say you have to be in God's word,
for sure, I wouldn't say rely on yourself
to recognize anything.
And, but also to know the true gospel.
(11:55):
So, you know, these things,
they did not jump out at me at first,
but once I did know the gospel, then I recognized,
I was like, okay, I can see how strategic, you know,
the enemy is working because anytime you hear something
that it sounds like a counterfeit version of God's promises,
that's when the alarm bell should go off.
(12:16):
So-
It's just like the Garden of Eden
when the devil promised Eve the things that she already had.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
So, and now that kind of makes me think of some of the things
that they brought up.
They really blurred the idea of heaven for one.
So they would say things like,
(12:36):
oh, you know, we don't really know what heaven is,
but we can have heaven on earth, like the earth is abundant
and we should make the most of it here.
And because of course, like, this is the closest thing
to heaven for someone who is on their way to hell.
And then also I'm thinking of some of the things
that they had mentioned, just to look out for.
(12:58):
The, I kind of think of the ongoing concept of self-love.
So if you constantly hear, you know, love yourself,
put yourself first, then I would also,
then those alarm bells should go off as well.
So-
For the latter half of that, I mean, it's okay to love yourself,
but it's not okay to constantly put yourself first.
(13:20):
Yeah, but also-
That's not what Jesus teaches.
And looking at yourself to kind of save yourself too.
So that just reminded me of something
that they would always reiterate is that
no one is coming to save you.
So you can see that if you even had, you know,
the basics, you know, the foundations of faith,
you would hear those things and know.
So, you know, we're not going to save ourselves
(13:41):
through self-love and, you know, seeking higher consciousness
within ourselves and things like that.
Only Jesus can save us.
And we're not going to reach, you know, divinity.
There's a need for a mediator.
That's another one.
Anytime if someone mentions that there isn't a need
for a mediator to God the Father, then, yeah,
(14:05):
then you should be on the lookout.
Yeah.
So, and then kind of after that treatment had happened,
that really shook me up.
So at that point, I really didn't know where to turn.
Yeah, how long were you there before you had that treatment?
About, at this point, it was about eight months,
eight, nine months.
Okay.
(14:26):
Yeah.
So I had been there for a while,
really didn't see myself working anywhere else
or in any other practice.
So, you know, when she said these things to me,
I knew that something was wrong.
And I wanted the truth.
I wanted to align with God,
but I was getting so many winds of doctrine
and just was so confused.
I didn't really know where to turn.
(14:46):
So I was desperate.
And I was very honest with God.
I was like, God, I am not smart enough for this.
You're going to have to show me what the truth is.
Like, are they telling the truth?
Are they telling, are they saying that, you know,
God's word isn't real and all these other things?
You know, what is it?
I'd like to align with you, but I need help.
And it was within a week.
(15:06):
It would quickly and swiftly, he answered my prayers.
And all of these false doctrines were all corrected
because someone had come into my life
and stepped outside of their comfort zone
and confronted me with the question,
are you 100% sure that you have a home and haven't?
And I was like, what are you talking about?
(15:28):
I was kind of offended.
I was like, what do you mean?
I'm a Christian.
I was brought up in a Christian home.
It's not like I murdered somebody.
Yeah, of course I, my goods outweigh my bad.
What do you mean?
And then he took me through just, you know,
Romans road, like, well, you know,
that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
(15:49):
And, you know, there's a need for Christ
and what he did on the cross.
And it's our faith in him that that saves us.
That sounds like the gospel winning script
that we learned about in our first episode of season two.
It's amazing.
And like you can lead others to God within minutes
with that script.
So that's amazing that that's what turned things around
(16:11):
for you and then you start thinking.
So like when he answered your prayers,
were you reading the Bible to find answers
or just like waiting for him to speak to you?
Yeah, like was there a specific verse
that got you through it like an anchor?
You know, when the thing is,
I didn't jump straight into the word as, you know,
as soon as I was given all this information,
(16:31):
it was more the resources and the people
that reached me at the time.
But then after that, yes, I have been in the word since.
And, you know, one of you had mentioned one of the verses,
one of the things that was reiterated to me
is that he gives wisdom abundantly.
So if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God
(16:52):
that give it to all and then liberally.
And that word just liberally really stuck out to me
because he really did.
He not only did he give me the truth quickly,
but he also gave me, you know,
way more than I had even bargained for.
So, yeah.
He sure does.
So he entered your life in a very profound way
because you asked him to,
(17:14):
did you notice a shift in how your fellow coworkers,
your boss, did you notice any shift in how they treated you?
This is so interesting.
So, you know, those are the people that I basically,
I was just around 24 seven.
And they, we didn't really talk about it.
(17:34):
There was a lot of fear within the clinic.
I think there was, people were starting to question,
but no one, like I said, is, no one said it out loud
because people were kind of afraid of our boss.
Or to go the opposite way.
And then I started kind of sprinkling in like,
guys, I don't know so much about the,
I still didn't know for sure.
(17:55):
All I know was that, you know, something was wrong.
Yeah, that gut feeling is the Holy Spirit.
For those of you who don't know,
that gut feeling is your Holy Spirit.
Trying to talk to you.
Yes, I am.
Yeah.
I was scared because, you know,
I was afraid to confront my boss.
I was afraid to confront my coworkers
(18:16):
who seemed to be fully embracing the new practices,
by the way.
And so I felt very alone in all of it.
And I had to, you know, I have to be there all the time.
And I had, it's just,
It's hard to be the first to say something.
Exactly.
Yeah, it was.
But then once you find out other people are thinking
(18:37):
like you are, you're like, hmm, then you gain the momentum.
So then what were the, where were the next things to happen?
So after you did that, you had that experience
with the deep tissue thing.
And then you had God speaking to you.
Mm-hmm.
So here I am, I'm given all this truth.
I know that I have to be on my way out.
Something I really wanted to mention quickly is that
(19:00):
God really took care of me during that time
because I was very scared.
You know, I got this all information, you know, new.
And my coworkers were not on board at first.
However, there was a Christian,
it was my colleague's boyfriend who was a believer
who looked into this man and was,
(19:21):
and brought it to her attention and was like,
he did all this research on him and was like,
Hey, did you know that this guy has a history of scandals
and that he's in an investigation right now
and all these other things?
And, you know, I didn't even look into him,
but it just goes to show that a Christian
can have that discernment and he wasn't even there.
(19:43):
You know what I mean?
So then he brought it to her and then she brought it,
you know, to the clinic that,
hey, you guys, did you know about this?
And that is when everybody started to shift.
So just so you know, everything kind of all came to a head
and everybody was on the same page miraculously.
So-
Is only God can do.
(20:05):
Yeah.
So that in itself was a miracle
and it took so much pressure off me
because like honestly during this time,
it was just taking years of my life
because I was under so much tremendous stress.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, and something else worth mentioning is that
there were more non-believers there than believers
(20:26):
and yet everybody, it's like God's will still happened.
So I'll talk about the next steps.
This cult leader, by the way, he came to our clinic
and he hosted like a three day event and it's just very dark
and everybody kind of had enough already.
So when he came, everybody knew that he was not
(20:49):
who he said he was.
He couldn't, you know, charm everybody
and people kind of saw right through him and his practices.
At the end of the week, when he had gone, you know, back home,
we had all decided to have a meeting with our boss
and we kind of gave her,
we just drew the line in the sand.
We said, listen, we've had clients who have been injured.
(21:10):
I'm thinking of the one kid that I told you about.
Now, you know, this guy, we simply do not trust him
and this isn't an accreditive practice.
So, you know, either you have to go back to the clinic
that we were all hired onto or we're all leaving
and everybody ended up leaving that same day, just quitting.
(21:33):
I guess we got an answer then.
Yeah, yeah, so really, really.
And here's the thing too is I'm such a people pleaser
and I wanted to stay there for her sake
because I really do love her, my boss.
And I thought, you know what, I'll just,
I'll give her a month and, you know,
(21:53):
I can't leave my clients this and that.
Like I had such a pull, like my natural tendencies
and it's very fleshful to, you know, be a people pleaser
and I recognize that, but I wanted so badly to stay there.
But I had that gut feeling not to go back.
I knew that I was supposed to be taken out of that clinic.
Every time I wanted to, to say to myself,
(22:16):
okay, I'll just go back, I felt that pull from God.
Like no, it's not, like it's not even an option.
You cannot go back.
It is not safe.
It was not safe.
And the thing is, I don't know if I could be there
for a whole month and confidently say
that nothing would happen if it was just me
and her in the clinic.
(22:37):
You know what I mean?
So there was that safety issue, which really kind of,
it's like the Lord kept reminding me,
you'll be there alone in that clinic and it's not safe.
So, and yeah, and that's what happened.
After that, I've been on fire for God's sins.
That's awesome. I've been to a church and that I really love.
(22:57):
Yeah. And it's just been,
I've been looking for ways to serve the Lord ever since
and things have just not been the same.
Just so many things have changed since then.
In retrospect, growing up in a Christian family
and then having this happen
before you started really leaning into God,
do you believe that you actually were a Christian
in hindsight in the beginning?
(23:18):
Or if you just thought you were
because you were raised that way? It's hard to say.
You know, I thought that I was a Christian,
but the gospel did not penetrate my heart, not at all.
Yeah, it wasn't until after this.
And then when I heard it and accepted it
and personally called upon the Lord,
(23:39):
that's, I didn't have the same feeling that I had afterwards.
That's for sure.
I honestly couldn't tell you if I was saved or not.
And he swiftly corrected the false teachings around you,
right?
Yes.
What do you think that reveals about his character?
That he does not want us to be deceived.
Yeah, I really, he does not want us to be led
(24:01):
to a blind faith.
And he wants us to respond to truth correctly as well.
Cause then he just kept revealing more and more truth
to me liberally, more than I could almost handle.
So you mentioned he doesn't want us to be deceived.
What are subtle deceptions do you think
that are really dangerous to believers today?
Like how can we discern them?
(24:23):
Yeah, so kind of going back to the anything that goes,
that goes against God and his word,
the anything that offers counterfeit of God's promises.
Yeah.
One of the biggest things we've been dealing with
since season two started is spiritual warfare.
It is crazy.
(24:44):
And so what did this experience teach you
about spiritual warfare?
Oh gosh, you know, it's so interesting.
Once I've had, you know, this experience
and I had, you know, this sense of urgency
to start serving God more and, you know,
seeing the world for what it is,
(25:05):
I did not experience spiritual warfare before
like I do now.
Yeah.
And certainly, at least for me personally,
the attack of the mind is a tool
that the enemy uses.
And it's, I think it's important to be conscious of that too,
because you can kind of spiral.
And I think that's how the enemy just tries to exhaust you
and, you know, pull you away from, you know,
(25:28):
completing what God has set forth for you.
So it's important to kind of catch it and stop it
and then pray about it.
As soon as you feel like something is not coming from God.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
So if someone listening is currently
in a place of confusion about their faith,
like what would you say to them right now?
(25:51):
I would involve God.
Yeah, ask God for wisdom and for understanding.
Yeah.
That reminds me of this listening prayer thing
I've recently learned about.
And one of the things you can do is you journal with God
and you write down your questions.
So you have a Q and A session.
So not only like a real relationship with somebody,
you know, just talk, talk, talk and then walk away.
(26:13):
Right.
Oh yeah.
And wait for them to respond.
So you have your Q, but then put A.
So when he answers, be prepared to write down
what he does say.
So you listen for what he has to say.
So listening prayers, they can be effective.
And then if you're wondering, is this from me
or is this God?
Like if it's good and it aligns up with his character
(26:37):
that is revealed to us through his word,
then you can rest assured it is from him.
And sometimes it'll bring you to tears too
with the encouragement that he can offer.
Yeah, I agree.
I think bottom line, your first line of defense
against the wiles of the enemy is the word of God.
Amen.
If you're not in the word,
you don't know you're being deceived.
And if you think the enemy doesn't know the word,
(26:59):
you're fooling yourself
because he tempted Jesus by using the word.
Right.
So the enemy does know the word
and he will absolutely use it at a contest
to suit his needs.
He will absolutely use something good to so evil.
Absolutely.
Like that's the biggest trick
I think Christians don't realize
is it's not just flipping over the page.
It's not an obvious thing.
(27:20):
Eve was tempted with good, right?
She saw the fruit was good to eat.
She wasn't tempted with evil.
She was like, oh, that's nasty.
You're the force to eat that one, right?
She liked everything it represented
because it sounded good.
And Adam's like, hey man,
you didn't die when you ate it.
So I'll have some too.
I want that.
That sounds really good.
(27:41):
He doesn't tempt us with evil.
He tempts us with good.
And that's why discernment is,
I believe is such an important step
and that's why being in the word,
oh, be in the word.
Cause if you don't know, you don't know.
Yeah.
You could be told 90% the truth
and he'll slip in that 10% line.
You won't know because you heard all the truth
and you were satisfied.
And then you can combat that like Jesus did
(28:04):
with more of the word.
It's like, no, no, it says,
and you don't even need to know the verse.
Exactly.
The so-called address.
As long as you know it in your heart, what it says,
you can look up what verse it is later.
Was there any pivotal prayers during that time
that you like really leaned into
or prayed more than any other?
Honestly, when I think back to that time,
it was the plea for wisdom is what stuck out for me.
(28:28):
Yeah.
Because I know that's what he answered.
Yeah.
So just praying for wisdom
and also spiritual protection as well
because I did end up going through
some spiritual warfare after the fact.
And I didn't even know what was really going on.
I didn't know what was happening to me.
So yeah, also praying for spiritual protection.
Yeah.
(28:48):
So what did that spiritual warfare look like elsewhere?
If you want to share.
It's kind of crazy.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
I'm not really sure if it was because I was in the clinic
and just like all the dark practices
if I had gone through the treatment or what it was.
But I did go through about four days
of just very, very intense spiritual warfare
(29:11):
where it looked like I was just very paranoid.
I could tell that like something was there with me.
Like I was terrified to drive and be in like a confined space.
Yeah.
Like driving home was terrible
because it was already dark outside.
And, you know, oh, now's another thing.
It was physically dark.
(29:32):
Like if I went outside and it was, you know, the sun was out.
It was almost like I was wearing sunglasses.
It's something like I can't even describe it.
But I like I said, I didn't know what was happening.
I was just thinking, oh, maybe I'm just under a man's stress.
And, you know, I'm kind of, you know,
dealing with a hard time right now.
But then I realized I was like, oh, dummy, you're being afflicted.
(29:53):
Like you're going through spiritual warfare,
like very thick spiritual warfare.
And, you know, going back to the prayer, then I remember
I was on a walk and I thought, oh, I prayed for wisdom
and forgot to, you know, lift the veil.
And it's like he really did because at that point,
(30:14):
I was able to see the world for what it really was.
Like we hear, oh, you know, we're in a fallen world.
But then I recognized I was like, no, he meant it.
We really are in a fallen world.
And I was just seeing the tip of the iceberg.
Everywhere.
You cannot miss it.
There is no subtlety to it.
Exactly. Yeah.
(30:35):
Yeah. So it was almost like, OK, you want to see the truth.
Like this here's some of the truth, you know.
And, you know, because if I were to see really how evil everything was,
it's like I probably wouldn't want to get out of it.
It would just cripple me, right?
But it's like those glasses that you put on and it reveals the truth.
Was it a movie or just a cartoon?
There was a movie like that a long time ago with Rowdy Roddy Piper.
(30:57):
Yeah, it's like the scary stuff that when he sees when he puts these glasses on,
he's like, what?
And people are walking around because they don't see it
and they don't think anything of it.
It's because they're OK with it.
You know, we live in a society where people are taught to love themselves
above all others, where to help somebody else is to be the most extreme
character they can give.
And they only have to do it once or twice a year.
(31:19):
It's not a requirement, but, you know, sometimes they feel obligated.
We all eat lies when our hearts are hungry.
And God created us as spiritual beings.
And if we do not lean into his spirit, we are going to lean into a different one.
Just because that's how he made us.
For relationship as spiritual beings, and he chooses us.
(31:39):
And we just need to choose him back.
But we don't all the time because of weird ways.
Kundalini Scientology, you know, there's so many different outlets
that we're trying to figure out, like, well, if it's not God, then it might be this.
And the demons are all too happy.
But yeah, that's it. It's this.
That's exactly right. You're right. You're at home now.
Yeah, anything to get you to settle for the crumbs of this world.
(32:04):
That is what they want.
Yeah. And it's just spiritual blindness, too, of it all.
And it's like people want to be spiritually blind.
Sometimes I think there's comfortability in, you know, just.
Not swallowing the hard pills of how wicked the world really is.
It's almost easier to not see the truth.
(32:25):
It's like we're ashamed without the truth.
We're ashamed without Jesus of being called out on our nonsense.
And that we're afraid of Jesus is in our life.
He's going to call us on our nonsense and we're going to hate ourselves.
And that's not it at all.
Like it's like he doesn't call us out of their nonsense.
He doesn't condemn us on it. He just forgives us of our nonsense.
And he says, hey, I got a better way if you want to live nonsense free.
(32:47):
Yes, I so wish people understood the character of God
and just his love and his mercy and grace.
I so wish people understood that promise.
Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
If you had to describe this experience in one sense as a testimony to God's power,
what would you say, Emily?
(33:09):
I would say this is a reflection of God's mercy and truth.
It reminds me of Psalm 81 where he talks about mercy and truth are brought together.
And, you know, I recognize so much
the grace that God showed me during this experience.
Hmm. I love that.
(33:30):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm so glad.
I just said, yeah, like.
You don't need to apologize.
No, I'm sorry.
Like every time I think about like it's OK.
I get it. When the Holy Spirit fills me up, I just we have a box of tissues here.
We are prepared because it happens every episode.
But he's there. You can just feel it.
(33:54):
Yeah. And I kind of understand, you know,
how God has used me in this because, like, I know,
like I have no choice to glorify God because it could have gone either way, you know?
And it was just through his mercy that he really showed me grace and was like
and he just interrupted the busy life and
(34:14):
and just led me to the correct path and it could not have been me.
I know that 100 percent.
So just recognizing, you know, how loving he is
and pulling me out of deception.
I'm grateful for every single day.
I'm thinking of Psalm 139, verse 17 and 18.
(34:35):
It says, how precious also are thy thoughts on to me, oh God,
how great is the sum of them?
If I should count them, they are more number than the sand.
When I awake, I am still with thee.
This is the same God for everybody, not just the writer of Psalm 139.
This is the same God that you are precious
(34:56):
and every thought he has, you're precious to him.
And yet you did something dumb, precious to him.
Yep, you did something right, precious to him.
It's not about what we do.
It's about who we put our faith in, who we want a relationship with.
And when we want him, when we have that relationship with his son,
when we declare him as our Lord and Savior,
we often find ourselves not wanting to do those things
(35:17):
to take us away from him.
We often, like just naturally, right?
Without even being in the Word, we'll naturally steer away
because we want to be closer to his heart,
which is away from those things.
And being in the Word just helps accelerate that process.
Being near Christians and fellowship helps accelerate that process.
Having quiet time with him helps accelerate that process.
But giving your heart to him is this first step.
(35:39):
Amen.
I mean, he's already given his heart to you.
Yeah.
Yeah, and just like everything that I do, it's like you follow God.
It should be out of just gratitude.
Recognizing the state that we were in.
(36:01):
And like he came down on a rescue mission for us.
And he came down on a rescue mission for us.
And you know, people are like, oh, you know, free grace,
you know, it's just a license to sin.
It's like, no, no, no, every, we stay within the parameters
out of just gratitude from the God who is saved us.
Yes.
(36:23):
We're not looking at ourselves as someone who is free to sin.
We look at ourselves as, yeah, we still sin occasionally.
We try not to.
But when I'm before the court, when I'm judged at the end of it all,
I'm just Jesus who stands on the scale for me.
It's his righteousness that's judged.
And even though I deserve it, he had already taken the punishment for me.
Accepting that will free you for everything.
(36:45):
Amen.
I would love to share the gospel winning script with everybody
before the end of this episode, because that was what hit you.
And maybe it'll, you can take someone else can take it with them.
So it goes, has anyone told you that God loves you and that he has a wonderful plan for your life?
I have a real quick, but important question to ask you.
(37:07):
If you were to die this very second, would you know for sure without a shadow of a doubt that you would go to heaven?
Let me quickly share with you what the Holy Bible reads.
We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and for the wages of sin is death.
And the Bible also says that whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And you're a whosoever, right?
(37:29):
Repeat after me, dear Lord Jesus, come into my heart, forgive me of my sins.
I ask to be away from my old life.
My sins are forgiven.
Write my name in the Lamb's book of life.
Today I'm a new person.
If you prayed that we, we are with you.
Amen.
And we ask that you share that with somebody because then maybe they can help you take the next steps.
(37:53):
And then you can find some other believers to help you with the next steps because you don't want to be floundering like my husband did.
And have to totally rely on only God to help disciple him.
Oh yeah.
I had no human, no human took me under their wing and disciple me and I never fell away and God literally took the reins himself.
(38:14):
Which is awesome.
A great experience.
They recommend nobody have to do that.
But if you do, God is a great, great disciple.
He knows what he's doing.
It's like he's done it a couple of times.
(38:52):
God is always working.
Miracles are real.
And your breakthrough could be just around the corner.
Keep believing.
Keep expecting.
And don't forget to share this with someone who needs hope today.
We'll talk to you next week.
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