Rob Reed Interview Open Discussion by Brett Keane

Rob Reed Interview Open Discussion by Brett Keane

Episode Transcript

(00:19):
Welcome to GOD TV Radio The Brett Keene Show.
I don't. Have a slow love.
No, I don't take shit. I've.
Got no love that. The faith is if you.
Want to play Dust and? Want to hate this although.
It's your world. I don't.
Have a slow. One So where did all this energy

(00:39):
in space come from? The answer was found after
decades of work by scientists. Space and energy was
spontaneously created in an event we now call the Big Bad.

(01:00):
At the moment of the Big Bad, anentire universe full of energy
came into existence, and within space it all inflated, just like
the balloon being blown up. So where did all this energy

(01:22):
space come from? How does an entire universe full
of energy, the awesome vastness of space and everything in it
simply appear out of nothing? The sun.
This is where God comes back into the picture.
I don't. Ever show up?

(01:43):
No, I don't take shit. I got no love with the bacon.
If you want to play top and wantto hate this or will we show up
and make a statement? I don't ever show up.
No I don't take shit. I got no love with the bacon.
If you want to play top and wantto hate this.

(02:05):
Or will we show up and make a statement?
Mental health discomfort. Soldiers don't give yourselves

(02:53):
the brutes. Men who despise you, enslave
you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to
think of, what to feel, who treat you tired you, treat you
like cattle, use you as Canon fodder.
Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, Machine men with
machine minds and machine hearts.
You are not machines. You are not cattle.
You are men, you have the love of humanity in your hearts.

(03:16):
You don't hate only the unloved,Hate the unloved and the
unnatural. Soldiers don't fight for
slavery, fight for liberty. The 17th chapter, St.
Luka is written the Kingdom of Goddess within man.
Not one man nor a group of men, but in all men, in you.
You, the people have the power, The power to create machines,
the power to create happiness. You and the people have the

(03:37):
power to make this life free andbeautiful, to make this life a
wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy
that are that power, let us all unite.
Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men
a chance to work, that will giveyou the future and old age of
security. By the promise of these things,
brutes have risen to power, but they lie.

(03:58):
They do not fulfill their promise, they never will.
Dictators free themselves, but they enslave the people.
Now they despite to fulfill thatpromise.
They despite to free the world, to do away with national
barriers, to do away with grief with and intolerance.
Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science

(04:19):
and progress will lead to all men's happiness.
Soldiers in the ring of democracy, let us all you.

(05:07):
Hello ladies. Hello man.
Oh, it sounds broadcast. You did I, I put a piece of
orange in my mouth, Brett. I was.
I was. I was I was dancing to the
remake of Olivia. Is my sound OK?
Is it too soft or we're? We're having a neck felt.

(05:27):
All right, then we're going to fix that.
Hopefully no. All right.
This is live echo cancellation now.
How's that sound? Better.
Testing. Yeah, it's a lot better.
Very good, very good. Well, to introduce myself as
well as you, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Brett
Keane from GOD TV Radio. I hope you're all having a

(05:49):
wonderful day out there. I'm going to be doing an
interview with brother Rob Reed,and you've been having a little
bit of a tough day. Hopefully my interview will
cheer you up a little bit. Actually, it was pretty fun.
I I had fun. You did enjoy yourself from
that. I did.
Well, I do want to say I apologize.

(06:11):
I tried the best I could communicate and and get you
heard, but for some reason he was convinced you were a robot
Reed. There there are some people in
the world, Brett and I know you know, we've been on YouTube a
long time. I've been on about as long as
you, if not a little bit longer,and that particular individual

(06:34):
might be the single stupidest person I've ever encountered.
And what has it been though? 819 years let.
Me do a background that better fits with what you got going on
in your background, so I'm good.Yeah, I mean, or I don't need a
background. I mean, I just, it's just a way

(06:54):
to blur. Yeah, it looks cool.
It looks cool. It goes great with the
background as well. Well, before we get into any
like theological questions or testimony or anything like that,
I've noticed that you've got a Rob Reed music channel and you
know that I'm into music myself,and I really like dramatic
intros, as you had to sit through just a moment ago.

(07:16):
I was dancing. I put a piece of orange in my
mouth to the remake of Olivia Newton John, and I was.
I appreciate your eclectic style.
Oh, I like all kinds of different genres.
Only thing I don't like is like certain kinds of reggae.
And I don't mind opera as long as Nightwish is doing it.
So it's that. I've seen some opera.

(07:38):
I I, you know, I've had better days.
But I guess first question wouldbe, how young were you when you
started doing music? We'll we'll go with this first
because I know music Cheers people up.
My parents bought me a my first guitar when I was 15.
It was an electric guitar. They didn't have a lot of money.

(07:59):
So they they were able to save up and they got me one.
But because they didn't have a lot of money, they couldn't get
me a lessons. So I was playing it upside down
like Jimi Hendrix because being a right-handed person, opposite
of Jimi Hendrix, but same concept.
I felt if you're going to do allthe technique, the technique it

(08:21):
makes sense to be where you're most dexterous and if I'm
right-handed, the technique should all be there and the
strumming should be on my weak hand.
Well it turns out guitar is oppoworld so it wasn't until that my
parents could not afford lessons.
So I had this nice little guitarthat I just, I was frustrated
with in 5 minutes because I didn't know what to do.

(08:41):
So Fast forward three years, I'ma freshman at UC Riverside, I'm
living in the Fine Arts Hall andthere are five people on the
hall that have guitar and they're all friendly and they
all teach me how to play. And my songwriting began from
there. My father was into music, came
into the United States in the 60s, immigrated from England

(09:04):
during the British wave, and he actually was signed briefly to a
contract with his friend. And they were both very, very
good. But the thing that held him
back, unfortunately, was my mom got pregnant.
And so his music career went on the wayside.
But I grew up with The Beatles, John Lennon's, you know, imagine

(09:27):
and just a variety of music. I was along the line, you
probably were around this time too, of the Columbia Record and
Tape Club. And I was able to build a vinyl
collection and fell in love withmusic because of my father, but
becoming a musician wasn't untilI started freshman year at
college. So your your father was

(09:50):
musically inclined, but unfortunately during that time
they didn't have live streaming and the cool stuff you can do
nowadays with digital. Yeah, and plus he had to figure
out a way to take care of a new baby coming, that being me with
his new wife. And so priorities switched and

(10:10):
my dad did the right thing. Meaning, you know, he, he, I'm
here. So they didn't give me up or
they didn't abort me, thank God.And so here I am.
And yeah, but he, it wasn't so much the issue of streaming and
stuff 'cause they were signed. It was the issue of he.

(10:32):
He was at a crossroads in life, as we all find ourselves
sometimes, and he took the road less traveled I would say, and
made the right decision. Some might say otherwise.
You know, just as well as I, I mean, yeah, you can't tour and
you can't go out if you want to be a family man.
The road's a killer on that. But you can put stuff up to a

(10:55):
distributor, all that kind of stuff with music out there.
It's sad, wrong time, wrong place, you know?
But you know, that is a, that isvery powerful choice.
And that's a, that's a real man there to actually say, you know
what, I'm going to be there for my family.
I'm going to do what's right. That's good.
Yeah, he could have been a schlep and gone on tour and gosh

(11:17):
knows what at that point, and I don't know where my life
trajectory would have taken me. That's been an interesting life,
right? Very cool.
So guitar started you off, keyboard started me off.
But this isn't about me, this isabout an interview with you.
So was there did you get to do when you started doing music,

(11:38):
did you get to actually do what you wanted to or did you find
yourself having to do what otherpeople wanted?
Was it aggravating or did you enjoy the whole process?
Well, it was me just with a, when I first started doing it
with a four track, you know, so I didn't have to do what other
people wanted me to. And I formed a, a band in

(12:00):
college with a couple of friendswho were halfway decent, but we
most mostly did covers of like Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili
Peppers and that kind of stuff. And, and the interesting thing
was as much as I wanted to be a musician there, they put me in
the position of singing So. And it wasn't until I was

(12:23):
invited to a church by a friend of mine, a neighbor.
He was a bassist at a local Lutheran Church.
And I grew up with a Jewish background, but we met at a
homeowners association meeting and he told me about church and
that he plays. I told him that I play music and

(12:44):
I write and I have my I record in the computer and we developed
a bond for music. So that's my testimony begins.
You know, it's an interesting transition.
It really begins my Christian testimony with music and the the
gift that God has given us of music.
And it started with a a friend of mine who went to church, not

(13:05):
a great evangelist, but God knewjust who to bring forward to me
with my interest of music for meto start to hear the word of God
in song. And about 11 months later, after
I first played on that worship team with the permission of the
pastor, he said that I could notsing because I don't believe in

(13:27):
the words. And my friend might have fibbed
a little bit by saying that I was seeking, which I was not.
About 11 months later after thatfirst day, I I was my first time
playing acoustic guitar, Not singing with the group was May
of 2005 and I was baptized Aprilof 2006.

(13:52):
I don't know if this is the samecase because it seems like music
was obviously a big priority foryou and desire where did because
you and I were talked in the past, at some point in time
you'd become get into lawyerism,if that's even a word.
I make up my own stuff. Hey, that's fine.
Lawyerism sounds like a disease,and it arguably is.

(14:15):
How did that happen? Since you were going for music,
was that just something you put on the side or did you mean to
go somewhere with it but decidedyou might be able to accomplish
something being the lawyer? Well, it's like my father,
right? You know, I had, I had the
perfect example with my father and my mother of course told me
there was no way that I was going to be able to major in

(14:35):
music. I didn't know enough going into
college. Music, as I told you, I was
playing guitar upside down and could play notes and it was
horrible. I had the desire to do it, but I
originally wanted to be a medical doctor.
So I went to UC Riverside with abiomedical sciences major to, to

(14:56):
start that endeavour. And I found out that it was just
too much. I wanted to immediately, I was
told in starting that major thatwe would be going right into
anatomy and all these medical related classes.
I was super excited. Supposed to be, in other words,

(15:17):
an accelerated medical program three years and then your fourth
year of undergrad is your first year of Med school.
And so I was cool with that. But entering into my third year
of undergrad, I decided to see how much I wanted a career in
medicine. So I went to the local Community
College and became a certified emergency medical technician.

(15:39):
And I did that for a short period of time.
And I discovered that I didn't. I didn't mind blood and all
those things, but I had an issuewith the callousness of the
people that I was dealing with, treating people like they were
slabs of meat, which I had difficulty doing.
I was my emotions would be invested in these people that I

(16:01):
was helping. And I felt that a career in
medicine was probably going to eat me alive.
And so I wanted to help people and I wanted to make good money.
And so the next choice was I changed from biology.
I went from biomedical sciences to biology.
And then I, I graduated the BA in English.

(16:22):
So it was a big drastic change, mainly because English was easy.
I could write out my last two years.
I was a five year undergrad, apply to law school, take the
LSAT and go that route because my mother was in the legal
field. So I had some, I had connections
already there where I knew I'd probably be secure with a job.
And so that's where I went, you know, with music being something

(16:45):
definitely on the sideline, particularly after college.
But it was during law school that my parents bought me my
first Tascam 4 track recorder, where I first started to learn
how to produce on my own, which is one of my great joys.
Now. I just don't have a lot of time,
unfortunately for it. But that was a long way to

(17:07):
answer your question. No, it's absolutely fine.
I, we can take as much time as needed and everything, whatever
time you have at least. So you, you got to a point where
you, you felt sensitive. You were in a position where you
were seeing, you know, some of the the drags of life, some of
the bad stuff, and you were inable to go to that second

(17:29):
level like these other people were doing because they had to
turn their emotions off in orderto deal with the job, right?
Yeah, I'm a soy boy by nature. You could, you could ask Smokey
St. There's a lot of people there
that would testify to my metro level and my metro levels like,
you know, Christian Scientology as thetons and I have metro

(17:51):
levels. Mine are fairly high where I I
have a an empathy for my fellow man, which was helpful in
becoming a Christian, obviously,but it was you know, it's the
the prophet Joel talks about theHoly Spirit in the end times
falling on all people and it's all who but it's all who call in

(18:13):
the name of the Lord who will besaved.
I feel that you know, God hardwires us as creatures in the
same way that birds fly S for the winter by instinct.
I think God hardwires into US who are healthy with healthy
growings up to be naturally empathetic to our fellow human.

(18:37):
Well, I I don't see that as soy or weak or anything.
I consider myself, according to my wife at least, of being an
alpha male, but I don't think that I could handle that kind of
job either. I don't think I could be a
fireman or a police officer either.
I've watched countless videos where it's real, what's
happening, and they blur out bodies, people walking into

(18:57):
houses where they're there's, you know, kids that have passed
or killed by their parents. And I couldn't be involved in
something like that. It would make me sick.
So I understand where you come from.
Yeah, but it again, it wasn't, it wasn't the blood and all that
stuff as it related to the medicine.
It was what bothered me the mostwas I think death and, and not

(19:19):
being able to like to, to have aperson in front of me who there
was nothing I could do something, you know for.
Whereas in law, I have somebody who's been aggrieved generally
and it's my job after the fact to help pick up the pieces and I
I fit in nicely there. So when when you started doing

(19:45):
the lawyer business, you said that you didn't have a whole lot
of time to do the music and all that.
Eventually you would run into some people and all that.
Because I've seen some videos ofyours where you got people with
you playing. Is that older material or are
you doing anything nowadays? Well now, now 'cause I, I end, I

(20:05):
have a a new position right now and so the new position gives me
far less time. So I have even less time than I
did before. That being said, I play every
Sunday. I lead worship at Calvary Chapel
Malibu. Before that I LED worship for I
was on the worship team at a place called Start out as First

(20:28):
Lutheran. Then they changed it into Life
House. Now they're called the House.
It's a nice church. It's very youthful.
But sadly when we had a change of pastor and a younger pastor
came in, he pushed out the old, which unfortunately was me.
They were keeping me on, but they had really substantially
lessened my role. So since 2005, I've consistently

(20:53):
on Sundays played in a band situation in most cases at
Calvary Chapel Malibu. It's, it's actually, it sounds
like a big church, but it's actually very small home church.
And I lead worship with just my wife.
It's just both of us. She plays keys, I play acoustic
guitar and we both sing. So I still perform, but they're
the extent of my performance. When I was a worship leader, was

(21:16):
at church and occasionally be asked to play at men's rituals
or you know, a variety of different things before, and we
would do that sometimes, but it was no great touring or anything
like that. But what's fun about what we
have now, and I imagine you havesome experiences like this,
because you've sort of alluded to this already, that with our

(21:37):
ability to put our music out there and particularly on
YouTube, what's neat is I've hada number of different churches
from throughout the world reallyask me occasionally through
e-mail to say, we really, we we heard your song, this song, we
really love it. We'd like to use it for our
Christmas program or we'd like to use it for this particular
special message. And can we do that?

(21:58):
And I always say, yes, yeah. I never had a, a place where it
made me think twice about it because I like to think that the
music that I do write is I most of it's generated from the word
of God itself where we can't go wrong.
There's a few things where it might have started away from the
Bible where there's potential, but I never had.

(22:20):
For instance, the one that comesto mind, there was a Christmas
program in Chicago at a Presbyterian Church and they,
they got wind of my song Tender Mercy and they wanted to create
a black light Christmas because it's a, it was a Advent song.
It's based on Zechariah's song The last part of Luke 1.

(22:42):
And it was just awesome that they asked to use that.
They did the black light thing. They sent me a video link and I
was really, really honored that the God would use me.
And that way, you know, and, andit, it happens sometimes.
So that's the extent of my public performance kind of
stuff. It it just limited to Calvary
Chapel Malibu. And now that I'm in my older age

(23:04):
and working more, I think I'm probably going to stop doing
that pretty soon, which is kind of it's I'm at that crossroads
like my dad was. Do I keep doing this or do I
worry about my health because I'm starting to get old?
You know, it's pressure to to create a service and all that
stuff. I understand.

(23:24):
Well, I, I encourage you either way.
If you feel like it, you would, it would be healthier for you to
stop them, so be it. But if it brings joy to your
life, obviously I'm going to root for you on that as well.
Sure, You know you know what you're going through, so I can't
tell you either way. It's just a lot of work, you
know, And so it's, it's I, I'm leading.

(23:49):
I'm heading to a point where, you know, I played so many songs
and so I know a lot of songs andI don't.
The other thing, I think it's like there's a quality that we
should have when we serve the Lord in that way, it is such a
huge blessing. We're leading other people into
the place of worship, into the holy of Holies, if you will, and

(24:10):
we want to do our best job. And when I don't, I'm tired and
I don't have enough time for it.It I don't think I'm given 100%.
God really deserves 110. So I've given an inkling to the
pastor already there and I said,you know, maybe we should start
looking. So if if anyone's in the the
Malibu Canyon area, Calabasas, because we're not in Malibu

(24:33):
proper, hit me up if you're interested in leading worship.
All right. I got a question for you having
to do with theology fellowship and all that.
When you look at social media with these different Christian
communities out here, do you feel as though they are a

(24:54):
detriment to themselves? And then and why I say that,
I'll give an example. One of the reasons why we see
that non believers and some of these other groups out here so
popular is because they share each other's content.
They encourage each other to continue to do the things they
do. Sure, they have their little
spats, but in the Christian community it's like this.

(25:16):
Oh, you don't read the translation.
I do. You don't go to the my kind of
church. You're not a part of my
denomination, so therefore I won't support you in any kind of
way. Do you feel that at all or do
you think about? Absolutely.
And, and it's the, it's the problem with, I would say the

(25:39):
difference between the Christiancommunity and the atheist
community is that the majority of the world is still religious
at some way. And so atheists are some still
somewhat of a pariahs. And so their way to gather is
here. Whereas the way to gather for

(26:00):
Christians in real life, and this isn't real life to me in
real life is in a church by the best God intended for us to
share in person with fellow Christians, fellowship in
person, be in church, have accountability and all those
things that are a priority for the Christian community, but not

(26:24):
for an online community. An online community is filled
with people that are can be anonymous.
It's it's reckless. And where we find, we find
unfortunately, Brett and I know you've seen this.
I'm sure of it. I definitely have.
And you got a glimpse of it tonight, unfortunately, that
there is a lot of mental illnesshere.

(26:45):
There's a lot of loneliness here.
There are a lot of people on here who do not have a say in
their real lives, who are not taken seriously in their real
lives, who attend church but aretoo afraid or too shy to say
anything. Or maybe they've been instructed
not to and they found this placeto be a suitable soapbox where
they can get a forced group. And the primary, I would say

(27:13):
mental illness that exists here is with some people who have
Dunning Kruger syndrome, the Dunning Kruger effect.
They know a little bit about something.
They think that they're experts and that might include the
Bible. And they start teaching and they
start instructing when that isn't a gifting that God has
given them. And yet they're going to force

(27:35):
it. So they become sideshows, circus
sideshows on here. They become they use avatars,
they call themselves smoky Saints and or things like that.
And suddenly when we when the the Mass comes off and they come
off in a variety of different ways, we start to see that the

(27:56):
people who are taking the position of being Christian
leader have no business being inthat position and don't have the
requisite demeanor to do it correctly.
And I'm not saying that I'm the one either 'cause I don't think
I'm patient enough. That's why I was on a pastoral

(28:20):
track at this new church. I've been there for almost 2 1/2
years now and I found, you know,I've been praying with God and
saying, is that the direction that you want me to go?
And, and he's saying, no, he gave me other opportunities in
my career that were better for my family.
And I said, OK, I see where you want me to go.
Your will be done. And it's been good for my

(28:43):
family. And unfortunately, it, it's
giving me less time here. And I liked to think the
majority of the time in my time here was that I wanted to be
guide for people on how not to hold grudges as best as

(29:03):
possible. Although there's a few that I do
have how to try and live at peace to live out living in
peace with others. As far as it depends on me,
there's some people that you just can't not.
And but if, if, if it's in my position to kind of control it,
then I can try. I fail far too often.

(29:23):
That's why you know, pastors, not God doesn't want me to be a
pastor. So the, the short answer to what
you said is what you asked is inthese online circles, we're more
likely to create a cesspool and you see it.
Brett, you, you were involved inthe atheist community.
So you, you're, and I was so overjoyed when I saw that you

(29:46):
were changing in that regard. But even the atheist community
as you, you were the Pied Piper of atheists from the beginning,
before TJ and all that insanity,when he turned it into a big
cartoon. You were good at what you did,
and it was serious for a while, but then suddenly people started
flinging stones at you. I remember with plagiarism,

(30:08):
whatever stuff they were throwing out at you.
It was like they were killing the messenger.
Because what is the lifeblood ofthe online community is not
truth. It's what brings viewers.
And truth doesn't bring viewers.Brett, I can tell you, I did a
Bible study. I did a daily Bible reading
Bible in a year to lead people out of the drama in the year

(30:31):
2023 to bring people into the word of God.
And I would be lucky to get 10 people to watch.
So but when you know I was I didn't see how many people were
watching spud stream tonight, but I bet it was more than 10
and that when we weren't talkingGod, we weren't at a fine we
weren't lifting up God. It was someone who decided to do

(30:54):
a video unannounced with relatedto me about joke posts that I
put up and so I took the bait. So occasionally I find it
entertaining and but it was a perfect example, Brett, of what
of the cesspool? It is you to.
And if you're in the position totry and bring seriousness and

(31:17):
bring people to Christ, then I encourage you to do that.
And this is a good medium to tryand do that.
Interviewing people and talking about their testimonies and
seeing who you know, the reality, what people are in real
life, not who they are here. And sad thing is that for many
people on here, this is all theyhave and that's what we need to

(31:40):
try and guide people away from because it is accessible.
I agree. There's a lot of issues.
The atheist community has its wannabe scientist and the
religious community has people who have not went to school for
theology or anything like that, but they want to become the
next, I don't know, Benny Hinn II don't know what it is they're

(32:04):
going for, what the ambition is.I've always tried to be honest
with people. I'm never going to be a preacher
or minister and you'd be absolutely irresponsible to
offer me a church to run. So it's.
I don't have the patience. If I if I was given a church and
it was filled with nothing but Ryan's, I would quit.

(32:27):
I would quit right away. I I just don't have enough
patience to help people who are very hard to.
Help. And that's not good.
But God, like when we pray, we pray for God to bring us people
of peace. I found that to be successful.
And a person at peace is somebody who wants to hear from

(32:50):
you, respects what you say, willlisten to what you say, and
won't attack you even if they disagree.
And we probably, we might be able to get into that even in
this conversation because I imagine there's plenty we
disagree about. I don't want to hit too much of
the detrimental stuff for what'sgoing on with the community at
this point of the discussion because it's it's clear from our

(33:14):
discussion you're you're still alittle miffed about what
happened earlier. And I'm sorry that happened.
All right, let me there's just there's.
A I'm just saying there's a lot of evil here and and that the
the fine line of writing that ishow to deal with it and how to
handle it. I've seen in the last couple

(33:35):
years here some of the most extreme evil from that certain
side that I've ever seen that I didn't think that human beings
could really get to. And that's why I say, and it's
done by people, of course, Brett, who are anonymous.
And it's, it shows how if your expectations of, of creating a

(33:55):
Christian community here or trying to get a great Christian
community here temper it. I know you've already known
that, but it's the best way to get a Christian community is to
do it in person. Find a church.
People have always asked me to do moderation and neutral type
of things and all that because for some reason on both sides,

(34:18):
when it comes down to it, they see me as fair.
But I've never I can't seem to. Even with all the charisma, I
can't get people to just work out their crap no matter how
much I talk to them. It's like they they'd rather
kill each other than just get along.
So odd. Well, if, if the worst thing
that I've seen, you know, not to, I know you don't want to get

(34:39):
too much into drama, but people essentially mocking the death of
someone's child, I don't think it gets any worse than that.
And there's, there's really, it's, let's just say it's
incredibly difficult to forgive that kind of thing or to want a
fellowship with that, particularly when the person is

(35:01):
not sorry about what they did orthe people, I should say.
I had somebody a while back, Rob, whenever my daughter was
going in and out of the hospital, the person didn't like
me. They didn't like the atheist
stuff that I was going through. And I completely understood
that. I understood, but they told me
that it was because of my sins and my evil, why it was that my

(35:22):
child was in the condition. Now I had read the Bible enough
even as a non believer to know that God doesn't punish innocent
children just because of the youknow, the parents being a creep
or whatever. No.
So I I've I've. Experienced people say some
pretty awful things, especially very personal towards children
and all that, and I, I'm friendswith that.

(35:44):
Person though, did it like did you?
Did you have a resolution with that?
Whoever that was, was it Me? I have.
I've always. Tried to forgive people and and
get along with folks and all that, but there's just some
people. It's kind of like, I don't know
if you're a fan of Batman, but it's like what Alfred said.
Some people just want to see theworld burn.
There's just nothing you can say, no matter how rational and

(36:07):
logical, no matter how kind and compassionate.
They just want to crucify it, period.
At the end of it. Yep.
Sadly, that is. True.
And that's it's especially true.You know, it's the Joker.
I don't know if that's what he was talking about, but we're
we're a clown face and many people in in every community,

(36:28):
but I don't see it in the atheist community in that, I
mean, there are people that use pseudonyms, but often times
they'll get on camera. But there are people here who
wouldn't get on camera. They'd just be cartoons and
anonymous. And they're the worst.
They're they're they're too afraid to reveal who they are in
life because they don't amount to much.

(36:49):
I have to suspect. And this is what gives them
power. And it's, it's incredibly sad.
They're people's emotions that get at stake, not mine.
I mean, I again, I'm I'm amused by the person tonight, amused by

(37:11):
their their lack of intelligence.
But on a. Soapbox.
Where they're acting like they're intelligent, that it's
Dunning Kruger with a capital DK, but we can get off that.
Let me try to get into. Some other questions and we can
talk about all that you you wantto, if you're into it.

(37:32):
Let's see, do you remember the specific moment or event that
led you to embrace your Christian faith?
Yeah. But there were many, many
moments, but there was one particular 1.
So I'll tell you the one particular one.
That was the slam dunk for me. It was.

(37:54):
Pastor Dana Hanson at. First Lutheran at the time he
was preaching on Acts 9, he was preaching.
He had just come back from a prison ministry.
He was describing people coming to faith in Christ in the prison
and. He was weeping.
You know in the process too. But we this the Bible verses of

(38:15):
the day were Acts 9 and it was where Paul has the scales come
off his eyes. And I literally felt a an actual
reaction to the sermon to the scripture where I literally felt
scales come off mine, a weight off my body.
And suddenly the church buildingthat I was in actually felt

(38:37):
smaller. It was this interesting event
where it felt less like a a a big building that was not
comfortable to accessible and itfelt like home.
That was the hammer home moment I had.
God knew what he needed to do with me which was to give me a

(38:59):
lucid dream where I had an experience where I I felt like I
actually felt literal hands on my shoulders.
I was looking into a light. I was half sleeping though, and
I was giving my life over to Christ in my dream.
The way that it went down thoughwas it was as if I was walking

(39:20):
into a film and I'm seeing how the story ends and I don't know
everything that happened before.But there I am, staring into a
great bright light in my lucid dream on my knees, and I feel
two hands, one on each shoulder,and goosebumps fill my body.
And you know, we've all felt goosebumps, whether it's a
loving experience or it's, you know, we watch a great film or

(39:43):
we read a great book or we hear great music.
You know, for you and I could share that.
I know you've certainly had withyour love of music had that
those goosebumps. Multiply that by like 1000.
And that's how I felt in my lucid dream.
Never felt anything before. Haven't felt anything since.
That was about Valentine's Day of 2006 when I was still playing

(40:05):
as a non believer in the church is playing.
Acoustic guitar. And I was in what's called an
Alpha course created by Nicky Gumbles, an Anglican priest in
England. And the course is designed for
skeptics to ask questions to find out more about Jesus.

(40:26):
So I'm taking this class. I have no interest in it, but
they're all kind of pushing me to do it, and I want to throw
them a bone. It was at the church because
they've been so kind to me. So without any expectation, I
ended up in that alpha course and God created a series of God
incidences during that. The dream happened during that.
The Acts 9 sermon happened, I think just as that was ending in

(40:50):
March of 2006. And I had moments in the Alpha
chorus where I was reading scripture actively and I, and
there was 1 moment in particularI remember in the morning I read
a scripture. I can't remember what it was now
because again, I wasn't recording this, you know, I
didn't know what was happening to me and I didn't know this was

(41:11):
going to happen later. But I remember reading
something, I think it was in Timothy, first Timothy maybe,
and it was Paul being a cheerleader to the Christian
people. And I was so impressed by these
words that he said, I don't remember what they were, but
those very words. There was somebody who cut out a
bunch of different verses all around at this alpha course.
And my seat had the very verse that I read that morning that I

(41:33):
was impressed with. And I looked up in the sky.
I remember that was 1 moment where I just said Oh my God I I
feel like you're telling me thatthe track that you have me on is
the truth and that this isn't all a bunch of BS.
This is reality. And when I had that dream though

(41:57):
I didn't even tell my wife for aday because I was embarrassed.
I told her she got a smile because she was a Christian
already. Thank God she married a Wretch
like me. God LED her to do that and she
was the best example of Christian Christianity for me.
Grace and mercy for sure. And when I ended up telling her,

(42:17):
she got a smile and she, she knew God was working on me and
she just told me to keep, keep listening and that she was going
to keep praying. And then so that was about
Valentine's in the March was theActs 9 sermon.
And I made the choice shortly after that sermon, I went to the

(42:37):
pastor's office and I said, I, Iwant to be baptized, but I have,
I have one last hurdle that I'm having a lot of trouble with.
And that last hurdle for me was I come from a Jewish background.
And I was thinking about all of my relatives who were waiting
for a Messiah, particularly my great grandfather and my great

(42:59):
grandmother. They came, they escaped the
Cossacks from the Ukraine and they, they landed in, in
Brooklyn. And I know that my, they were
waiting for a Messiah. And I said I I have a, I have a.
Problem. With my family, who doesn't know
Jesus being in hell, the pastor said something to me that it

(43:22):
wasn't. It didn't make me feel any
better. I didn't like it.
He said, well, people can choose.
Here and. In the afterlife, they wouldn't
change their mind. And I said, well, I don't know.
I didn't know my great grandfather, but I put myself in
this position. He died before I was born, but

(43:43):
if I could see him at the feet of Christ and he'd be like, oh,
hey, I didn't realize, you know,and I think he would change his
mind in. The end my.
Resolution for that is the same that I have today.
People say, well, if I don't believe in Jesus, am I going to
hell? I said, well, scripture leads us
there, but I'll say this, I knowof 1 and I compare it because I,

(44:06):
I love modern culture, part of my being a music musician.
I love music too, but I love thefilm Willy Wonka and the
Chocolate Factory, you know, andI say, well, I know of 1 golden
ticket. I'll get you that golden place.
And that's Jesus. And that's, that's the guarantee
that I know that I've taught that I've learned in the end,

(44:28):
and this is how I, I got past the hurdle wasn't jumping over
it. It was sort of going around was
to say, I trust in the promises of God, the hope that I have in
in the cross and in Jesus and what he did, that whatever is
going to happen in the end will be God's perfect justice, God's
perfect righteousness, and I will therefore accept it.

(44:51):
And that's been satisfactory forme.
So this next question. I have for you is a
hypothetical. God tells you that there is 3
major things. You can choose whatever you
want. Three major things that you can
do for yourself personally and your family, and then another
three things that you can do that will affect all of humanity

(45:15):
or the world itself. You can do anything 3 for your
family and you and three for theworld.
What would you do, God? I don't know.
That's a hard question. I mean, I'd, I'd have to sit and
think about that. I, I for my family, there's,
there's nothing. I mean, I would say for every
member of my family doesn't knowJesus, I would ask God.

(45:37):
For. His favor to lead them to him in
the same way that he did to me. Whatever.
Because I think people are in their own different
circumstances. That's selfishly what I'd ask my
own immediate family. I've I've my my son follows
Jesus, my wife follows Jesus. And so in in our little small

(46:01):
little circle of three, we're successful and we own, you know,
we have a home, we're comfortable and God has blessed
us immensely. So there's nothing I would ask
other than for members of my family, non believers to have
the gift of belief as far as it relates for the world.
I would pray the same thing thatI pray for this community, but

(46:21):
it's this community is a reflection of the world and
there's evil exists in this world because God allows it to.
And so I, I would just pray thatthat I.
Be an instrument. And my family be an instrument
for the world, one person at a time who's brought into our to

(46:43):
into my presence in person that I might be able to shine the
light of Jesus without having tohammer the truth of Jesus on
their heads. And that could be done as simply
as buying somebody lunch if they're hungry or.
Praying for. Somebody if they're on the

(47:04):
streets and they're struggling, something like that.
So that's my answer off the top.To have three and three, I don't
know, but I know. Think about it and get.
Back to it if you feel you need to.
No, that's I think that would bethe.
Answer that I'd say just in eachinstance for the world.
I would say let me be a better example for you.

(47:26):
Jesus, that's even just one soulcan be saved.
Because of. The light that you gave me God
to shine upon others, and I did it correctly for once.
So I guess there's some selfish factor to that, but we'll leave
it at that. That's a tough question.
What would you answer? And you can edit that out well

(47:48):
for my. For my family, obviously there
would be things where I don't want to.
I don't want my family to need for anything.
I don't want them to suffer in any kind of way.
Things like that. As far as the world, it's really
difficult. One of the things I've
discovered and why some of my prayers don't appear to come to

(48:08):
fruition is because sometimes I ask things of God where it
would. It would call on him or demand
that he changes the free will ofothers.
And I know he's just simply not going to do that.
So it's, it's really difficult as I, I always felt with music
or talking to people, you could reach out to folks.

(48:28):
And one of the things that keepsme going, Rob, is whether
there's 10 people listening or there's 1000 people listening,
if I can just view in my mind that one person has gotten some
even a little bit of light and opened up their mind, that's
that's beautiful to me. Might, I might not be able to
change folks and all that, but that's really, it's not because

(48:51):
of you and it's not because yourlight ain't shining, but it's
because they have made the choice to close themselves off.
And I hope you realize that, Rob.
Yeah. But it's it's a.
Struggle cause at the same time too, in order to benefit others
I can particularly in this community I've I've been in a
position where I've felt led to expose evil and to watch actual

(49:18):
people who I know are brothers and sisters in Christ.
And that might very well even include the person I talked to
tonight who I was mocking that. It saddens me to.
See them get influenced even when the evil is exposed and to

(49:40):
bypass it. To consider it.
And there's something to be saidabout God's forgiveness that can
that is. Definitely.
Possible for those people who participate in such evil, but
when the evil is unrepentant andit's lied about and all those
things, I think it's probably one of my.

(50:04):
Many character. Faults is that I get frustrated
with people who don't see clearly the evil that is that I
see clearly. You know what I'm saying there,
you understand? Yeah, I.
Remember whenever I've had thesemoments where I want, I want

(50:25):
justice, I want fairness. And I've, I remember there's
been times in my life where I thought I really got this evil
person. I mean, I've, I've got the goods
on them. And then whenever you show it,
people don't care because they're just as evil as well.
It's a very strange, uncomfortable feeling when you

(50:46):
know that it's almost like you're in the Twilight Zone,
like you're in a world filled with books, but everybody's
blind. Yeah.
So they. Yeah.
And that's where we're at, right?
Now actually in that in the particular divide of it's it's
called free grace versus whatever they are.
And that's the big dispute that I happen to be involved with.

(51:09):
But not everyone is hyper free grace that is in lumped into the
free grace. You know, you got Bruce, who's a
Wesleyan conditionalist, mostly the opposite of Free Grace and
me, who's like a sort of a hybrid of are you talking about
Bruce as in the. Bruce of her, yeah, but he
doesn't like that. So I'd hope that you wouldn't

(51:30):
say I, I, I won't, I won't. Use that word and all that.
But he was in a room with Beckelless than a week ago and he said
that he doesn't believe in Jesus.
Well, he he. He does that because they know
that he does in the same way Ryan had his whole chat tonight
about me. Is Rob a Jew?
Is he a Christian? Is he a Zoroastrianism?

(51:52):
And I misspelled it on purpose and even put a picture of Zoro
the character and Rob I I. Understand what you're getting
at and I've I know that you got a great sense of humor.
I realize that I I try, so does.Bruce.
But Bruce gets frustrated with people.
He's somebody because he's been pushed away.

(52:12):
And somebody like Bruce, I, I definitely vibe with because he
has that same sense of wanting to fight evil and the evil
response. And I'm not saying Beckel, for
instance, in that case is evil, but I think he might be led by
it because he's, you know, bad. Company corrupts good.

(52:33):
Manners. I forget what how exactly it
goes in the Bible. He's hanging around certain
people that are leading him to do and say.
Things that are hurtful. Bruce's response to that is
similar to what my response was with the Jewish thing and the
it's it's to sarcastically respond.

(52:54):
Why would Bruce care so much about all this stuff if he's not
a believer? Well, Rob, I can.
Completely I can. Completely.
Understand if someone says look,you're upsetting me, I think
you're an asshole or something, fine.
But the denouncing Jesus Christ thing publicly, that's that's
not healthy for him. You might want to have a talk

(53:15):
with him. Oh yeah, yeah.
Well, we we've. Talked many times about it.
I've talked to him about that when he would do the same thing
but not denounce Christ. I've never heard him denounce
Christ in the way, you know thatI get an actual denunciation.
But he did stuff when people would say, I remember the mighty
wind time. I don't know if you were

(53:36):
involved with that at all. I don't think you were.
I heard about the. Drama, but I didn't really they
would say. They would say that we were
doing voodoo cults and cursing them and all these things.
So he did a whole video where hewas doing voodoo curses and they
use that to say see? In the same way that somebody.
Like Ryan would use the Bruce's denunciation to go see and it

(54:00):
was so absurd. The more absurd that it got with
A Mighty Wind, the more absurd it just felt to try and defend
it. There was one guy in that group
who left the A Mighty Wind cult who they claimed was an A
werewolf. They actually said, Brett, that
I'm a vampire. They did a.
They did a a. Video that was an hour long,

(54:21):
allegedly proving that I'm actually a vampire.
I'm not going to get too much into that, but they said about
one of their former members thatI held hold on one second a.
Twilight Vampire or Lost Boys Dracula version?
Which one? Unfortunately.
Twilight, I think because they they were, they used Robert
Pattinson to refer to me. Unfortunately.
I wish it was Kiefer, but, well,those kind of vampires.

(54:44):
Aren't terrible. They sparkle.
Yeah, yeah. I mean you'd.
Think so. But anyway, one of these former
members was accused of getting converted because we were I was
a 62nd Mason vampire and some other people were something else
lizard people, reptilians. And we converted him into a
werewolf. So he had his wife do a video

(55:08):
where he no joke, humped in the dark, the tailpipe of his car
making moans like he was a werewolf.
Now the choice of that was not not the choice that I would have
made, but he did that none the less.
And they it mighty when people use that to say see he's a

(55:31):
werewolf. And so Ryan does this video
tonight to go see he's confused.He's having identity.
Christ. Is he a Jew or is he a Christian
or is he a Zoroastrian with the picture Brett of Zorro?
Well. Isn't I mean.
This might come off naive or silly.

(55:53):
I'm still a work in progress. But if you're a Christian, you
sort of have to hold on to Judaism as well, right?
Well. Yeah, I, I obviously, I don't
think we hold on to ceremonial now.
I, I was, I mean, there's some that disagree with me, but I, I

(56:13):
don't think Romans 14 is, is very, very clear for me on this
issue, which talks about if a brother does something, it's all
about I. Think what God wants.
For us, whether it's observing the Sabbath, that's what you
want to do and I don't do that, or if it's observing Yom Kippur,
Rosh Hashanah, or the Feast of Days, a Feast of Tabernacles,

(56:37):
all that stuff that's in there, more power to you if it
influences for. The better your.
Faith. But if instead it's used as a
means for you to point fingers at someone else, then you're
using it for the wrong reasons. That being said, it was a joy,

(56:58):
as you probably heard me explainif you were watching that
ridiculous train wreck tonight, that I still have Jewish
relatives and it was a joy for my wife to see.
I I didn't start dating my wife until just after my bar mitzvah.
Believe it or not, we've been together a long time.
So we started dating. She met me when I was 13, but I
was turning just turning 14, so I think she met me around the

(57:21):
time that I had my bar mitzvah. And.
Once I had my bar mitzvah, I wasout.
I wanted nothing more to do because it was a bunch of rich
people in my area and my family wasn't rich.
So I I'm going off on a tangent now.
I don't even know what we were talking about about about
Judaism. So it's like Judaism.

(57:42):
God gifted me with faith that Jesus is the way, the truth and
the life before I knew every single one of the gold threads
that tie in the old and the new.And it was the more that I
studied, I saw how they all thread together.
And it was the thing that convinced me intellectually.

(58:03):
So God reached me first in the heart and.
Then. Once I decided, 'cause you know,
I like I'm evidence based guy, I'm a lawyer, I decided, let me
look at this stuff. What is it that I believe in?
Why? And I started to see the
connections. It really, really strengthened
my faith. It turned my faith from a, a

(58:24):
blind faith, if you will. Like, I don't know why I believe
that Jesus is God. I don't know why I I in my
testimony and of course churcheslove new believers.
So they were very excited because they knew me as a non
believer for 11 months. And as I stood there for the
first time giving my testimony, I said, I go, I just know.

(58:46):
And I don't know why, but Jesus is God.
And I was afraid that people might throw tomatoes.
And if I was in a a certain denominations, it might have
happened. Fortunately I was in a Lutheran
Church and I do believe Jesus isGod, so a part of the Trinity.

(59:07):
But I didn't know for. Sure, and it wasn't until I
started to read that I started to dot the IS and cross the T's.
So there are. Passages in the Bible where it
says expose evil wherever you find it, but there's also
passages where Jesus says if they won't hear you and listen

(59:29):
to you, then dust off your sandals and go the other
direction. So obviously God's given options
on how to handle, you know, wickedness or people who just
won't listen. So why do you think it is that
you seem more magnetized towardsexposed evil as opposed to
taking Plan B? Because.

(59:49):
They I see good. People that get influenced to do
bad things and to absorb bad theologies and and to attack.
People that. I that are brothers and sisters
in Christ who I love and also attacked me and my family.
I mean, in the in the case of the guy tonight, he's actually

(01:00:13):
threatened to harm my livelihood.
So there's a part of the missionto expose selfishly how dumb the
man is. And in order to show people or
hopefully reveal to people that he's not someone he he makes a
lot of false accusations. He slanders me.

(01:00:35):
It's to get people to see the slander.
That's self preservation mode. But I, I say, I think I did
tonight. But in the in the case of some
other characters here, it's particularly as their double and
triple downs on harming brothersand sisters in Christ.
And that is just, it's one thingto dust your feet.

(01:00:58):
It's an and, which I mostly have, but it's another thing to
defend brothers and sisters in Christ who may be hurting and.
That's I think. What motivates me in this
community when I get motivated enough to go?
After somebody. Who isn't going after me?
Sounds like you got the same. Vulnerability that I do that

(01:01:19):
I've admitted to and conceded to.
People say whatever they want about me.
But when people say things aboutpeople, I love that, that
definitely it's a it's a but. And I know that or you know.
Like I, I'm a. Member of a licensing board,
State Bar, California. And this particular individual I

(01:01:41):
spoke to tonight has made threats.
And actually According to him, Idon't know whether he's lying or
not, he's a notorious liar, actually filed A complaint
against me that nothing came outof it.
And I don't, I don't imagine whybased on the reasons he said,
but the fact that he's motivatedto do that and he has encouraged

(01:02:02):
other people to do it and another person who threatened to
do it as well. And I don't know if they did it
or not, but it's, it's those kind of things that, yeah, you,
you could, you could. Say anything you.
Want about me, I don't care. They could say, like tonight,
that character that I talked to,he said Rob Reed proved he's not

(01:02:24):
a Christian. I don't care.
I know who I am. I know my identity in Christ.
He could call me everything in the book.
He could say I'm a fake lawyer or whatever you want.
I know who I am, what degrees I have, whatever, but the minute
you attack my family, especiallyrelated to these dramas, that's
where I'm going to be extra. Venomous wouldn't be.

(01:02:49):
The right word? I'm not sure that'll work.
That sounds about that sounds like a little fit, yeah.
So, Rob, have you ever? I, I don't know if you've
noticed this and all the time that you and I've been on
YouTube, but I get to a point where it's like, OK, I need a
break from this. And I just, I go my merry way

(01:03:10):
and I always feel a lot better. I always feel like I'm ready for
a new day once I do decide at some point time to return.
Has that ever been a thought? Aren't it?
Oh yeah, for sure. And that's why I did what I did
in 2023, which I encourage you to do.
It'd be pretty cool if you decided to do it.

(01:03:31):
And I don't know if you're led to do it to actually read
Scripture, like take a Bible in your reading and do it once a
day, open up chat and have people just talk about the
reading. That was my goal and I, I got a
lot out of it. So, and that was totally a God
thing. It helped that it came at at a

(01:03:53):
time when one of the evils that existed here.
You know, I don't like to use a non biblical thing, but you
know, karma. I don't believe in karma per SE,
but I'm using it as a late. What you sow is kind.
Of like karma exactly and so. This particular individual in
our community reaped what he sowed he and unfortunately, I

(01:04:18):
think God was sending him a message.
Slow down, behave yourself, be contrite, recognize that you
aren't all that that you. There's a lot for you to learn
that perhaps you should not be ateacher, you're not qualified to
be. And so we'll make sure that we
establish reasons as stated in Scripture of why you would not

(01:04:42):
be qualified to be and have actually have it become public
and all that stuff is public andthen that person, so that person
left. There was a lot of disgruntled
people. There was there were problems in
this community and God led me towrite some more music.
That was 2023 was a great year for me in that regard because I

(01:05:05):
I was writing music. I was in his word every day and
I was actively thinking about what his word was saying to me
and I learned so much. And so I've had those moments
now YouTube I, I try and use forfellowship if I can, but it's,
it's just, it's, it's reached the stage where it's, it's

(01:05:30):
really stagnant here. But this, this particular
community that I just happened to fall into.
So there are so many other communities out there that Brad,
I would encourage you to try andlike move on to, to bigger
pastures or at least don't be depend if I was to start again.
And maybe it will happen becausemy son's about to start college

(01:05:54):
and so my wife and I are going to have fewer things to focus
on. So I might very well get back to
trying to work on YouTube channels or do more Bible
studies and things like that. Maybe.
But. Well, I got an idea for.
You that you might actually be interested in.
You ever heard a copilot? No.

(01:06:17):
It's a let. Me, let me get you this link
real quick. I guarantee once I show you
this, this will blow your mind and you'll be like wow, 'cause
you could do this on your videosand whenever you're doing live
stuff. Let's see.
OK, there we go. Did you post Korea?

(01:06:42):
Yeah, you're going to really like this a lot.
I'm going to put it in private chat for you.
OK, it looks like Bruce. Came in a little while ago, he
don't like me. Unfortunately, I wasn't paying
attention. There you go, see the link.
I gave you. Now when you open it up, let me

(01:07:02):
know that you've got the page open and I'll show you how to
work this real quick. Just a minute.
OK? Do you see a microphone button?
Yeah. OK.
In 10 seconds click that button and say hello how are you and
see what happens. Help.

(01:07:23):
Hold on, let me allow it. Hey, how are you?
How are you? Maybe you can't hear me because.

(01:07:46):
I'm on the thing with. You can you hear me?
OK. Yeah, you might have to.
Do the settings where your microphone's going through it in
order to hear it. Yeah, it's OK.
I'll. Try it out though.
So you you can. It's just a.
It's a ChatGPT kind of thing. No, not chat.

(01:08:07):
GTP, it's a lot more advanced than that.
Let me see if there's a way I can put it up on the screen for
you real quick 'cause you'll love this, I guarantee it.
Let's see share screen and OK, we'll go with this.
Also, share tab audio. Let me see Window.

(01:08:32):
Well, I guess we'll go with Windows, see if that'll work.
All right. You able to?
OK. You can see it on the screen
through your shared screen. Yeah.
All right. Hello.

(01:08:52):
Hey, how you doing? Well, hold on one second, Rob.
Can you hear it? No.
You can't hear it, Rob. I didn't.
I thought I heard the hello first though, but I didn't.
I didn't hear it just now after you said how you doing?
Let me. There's a share audio.

(01:09:12):
Share. Tab and share.
Audio audio on there. OK.
I think I saw. You do something fairly recently
with this let's. See.
You were you were doing. Some.
You were having a theological conversation with it, I think.
Let's. Try this.
I'm trying to it's not wanting to hit go through on the share

(01:09:40):
part for some reason. Let.
Me see if it how's it going? Tell me a little bit.
About Jesus. Check.

(01:10:01):
Tell me about. Jesus, it says.
I have two minutes remaining. Yeah, you got to be signed.
In in order for it to go through.
Yeah, I'll, I'll try it. When we get off, it's something
probably. Well, the the point.
Was is that if you decide to do a video like what you're talking

(01:10:23):
about where you read in scripture, you could actually
have a discussion with it back and forth on it.
And the beauty of it is is it isn't all emotional.
So it's not going to get aggravated with you if you know
you say something that doesn't like so you might enjoy that.
Thanks, I'm. Going to keep it.

(01:10:47):
Yeah, you probably did. See me do a couple videos like
that. It's complicated to try to do it
through stream yards, but there you go.
Yeah, I'm, I'm trying. To remember what you did.
I think I disagreed with the point that it was making.
I can't remember what you guys were talking about though, or
you were talking about with the machine.
We've talked about everything. For free will predestination,

(01:11:07):
are we under laws and commandments?
It might have been that it mighthave.
Been on the Old Testament versusNew, right?
Did you do that? I kind of.
Remember that I think talked about all kinds of.
Stuff. Yeah, I.
Just would say, you know. You're better off with an actual
like live person who studied, I'm not saying me, but like a

(01:11:30):
pastor and person. Do you go to church or you find
you didn't find a church that like you fit?
There's one little church. In my area and I, it's the
church my grandfather goes to. I went with him and he tried to
humiliate me at the church. So I, yeah, what he did was, you

(01:11:51):
know, he said you're going to really like this church, will
you go with me? And he pleaded with me over and
over to go. Well, unfortunately my
grandfather has memory issues. Sometimes he forgets that I'm a
Christian and that I'm saved. He still thinks that I'm a non
believer. So we get in there and he goes,
my grandson, he's a Satanist, you know, to the whole

(01:12:12):
congregation. I'm like, no, I'm not anything
like that. I'm a Christian and I used to be
a skeptic and all this. And they go, well, it's nice to
meet you and all that. And he goes, yeah, he was just
as evil as can be. And it, it would just made
things really uncomfortable, awkward.
They did talk to me on the side and say, look, we we understand

(01:12:34):
your grandfather's older and he's got some issues.
You're always welcome to come inand all that.
I said, well, if I do, it probably won't be while my
grandfather's actually here because I don't want to go
through that. Yeah, I'm sorry that.
Happened to you, But it's important to have that kind of
fellowship in person. You're not going to agree with

(01:12:56):
everything, but you need that. You know, there are people that
have studied a lot more than we have.
I know you've studied a lot though, and I've studied a lot,
but there I Rob, unfortunately. For me, I did actually try to go
out to a church a little bit. I actually my wife wanted to try

(01:13:19):
going to church again too. And I told her, hey, you know,
go for it if if it makes you happy and you feel like this is
the way to go, rock'n'roll. When she went there, apparently
my name had gotten so popular atthat point and stuff that even
the some of the churches knew who I was and they basically
tried to. I hate to.

(01:13:41):
Say it, but they. Actually tried to get her to
divorce me because they said that she was unevenly yoked so.
That's the reason. Why?
I don't want to put myself in a position.
I don't mind people disagreeing with me.
I don't mind, you know, there being some different
interpretations. I'm a very lenient, laid back
type of guy, but man, they went right at the wife and everything

(01:14:05):
and we've got children together,everything else.
And it's like, man, we don't need that kind of nonsense in
our life. I'm sorry that happened to you.
Do you are you like right away kind of vocal and people know
who you are right away or like do you go out to introduce
yourself kind of thing right away or are you kind of passive?
See the problem? Rob is that whenever I was an

(01:14:26):
atheist, I was big on going to different churches and sitting
down with the preachers and having discussions with them.
And I would ask some permission if I could record and all that.
And there were also phone discussions where I let people
know. I don't know if you Remember Me,
Do I remember? So I I was.
Never if you remember I'd never called them names.

(01:14:49):
I was never cruel or anything like that.
We just had chill conversations and I truly wanted to understand
where they were coming from. But because of that I've become
like a it doesn't matter how much I say I'm saved or I've
accepted Jesus for some reason Lutheran seem very cool.

(01:15:10):
They seem nice and and let things fly.
But boy oh boy, if I go near a Pentecostal or Baptist Church,
there's a good chance I might get taken behind the woodshed.
Wow. That's too bad.
That's rough. I'm.
Sorry, I get it that Rob, it's it's.
My own fault. I shouldn't have irritated

(01:15:32):
people. Well, of all people that.
Should be forgiving and understand it'd be, you know,
allegedly Christian leadership but.
Unfortunately, I guess. There's you.
Know. We it's not as much of a
cesspool in real life, but therethere is church politics.
I see it less in California. Let's just say that so well, I

(01:15:52):
always remind. Myself, anytime I run into some
people who are like that, whether they're in the Church of
social media, the Bible clearly says that there's going to be
false teachers, there's going tobe wolves.
So and the, and the, if the weight is narrow, then doesn't
that logically, rationally mean that a lot of people out there
are not going to be on the rightroad or maybe they're in a

(01:16:15):
pothole at the moment? So I just think of it like that.
And I just figured God will whenwhenever he's ready to will him,
they'll they'll get in the direction they need to go or
they'll go somewhere else. That's.
Where I. Went that was the way I dodged
the hurdle. That's pretty much another way
to say it, right? It was like I I trust in God.

(01:16:35):
I trust in his goodness and and I will and his perfect justice
and I will accept that notwithstanding my own personal
desires. Yeah.
You know, Rob, you were saying? That you, it's very important to
you that evil is exposed and allthat.
There's one thing I've learned, but sometimes if you just back
away and just let God take care of it, evil people tend to

(01:16:59):
eventually hang themselves. I, I don't know if that makes
sense to you, but they, they'll do something, they'll, they'll
make a really, really bad thing and they'll end up burning the
very bridge that they're standing on.
We've seen. It I've seen it.
Here I've seen it. Here I saw a guy that was
accusatory of a variety of different people and and hateful

(01:17:22):
two brothers and sisters in Christ and he pled guilty to
something pretty nasty. I know who you're.
Talking. About that person was awful to
me. They made it very difficult for
me to be able to find any room in the Christian community once
I became a Christian. But I didn't.

(01:17:42):
I did not I. Did not celebrate whenever they
fell, though. I did not go.
Oh, thank you. Jesus.
I thought what happened was horrible.
I yeah, I I didn't. Say thank you Jesus either I
what I did say and how I felt was that that the.
Reaping. From the sowing has occurred or

(01:18:05):
the sowing, you know, the reaping and sowing has occurred
for what was sown. So I, I did see, I was hopeful
that the individual would would change and unfortunately that
didn't happen. So that.
Saddens me more than. Anything else?
Do you want me to? Later on, change the title to

(01:18:28):
Rob and Brett. Just have a discussion and all
that, because it seems like you got a lot of things on your
mind, and if you'd rather talk about that than me hitting you
with these questions and stuff about all this, you seem like
you got a burden on you right now, really.
Yeah, this I. Mean, I, I know that you laugh

(01:18:49):
and everything and you try to have fun and take it as a joke,
but you seem like it's, it's kind of weighing on you a bit.
Well, I mean. It it does sadden me that that
evil. Can have a foothold.
Among people that it where it shouldn't.

(01:19:09):
So that would be the burden. I guess if you see that I don't
feel it as a burden. That's why I'm kind of surprised
that you said because I don't think about this on a daily
basis. You know, might be awesome, but
if you're an empathetic. Person you're you're a person
that wants to see changes and all that.
Now, if you could have it the way you wanted, when when you we

(01:19:32):
talk about exposing evil, how would you define that exactly?
I've got my own version of what exposing evil means.
Now, if you could have it your way, what would that look like?
Visualize it for me. Well, I'd I'd think from.
A biblical standpoint. Now this YouTube is not church
and I've said that since I started.

(01:19:54):
So we have to be careful. However, the church exists in
it, that being where two or moregathered.
He's here and the church is the people's, the body of Christ,
the brothers and sisters in Christ.
And so the way that that looks in any community that involves
brothers and sisters in Christ is to reveal to them to people

(01:20:18):
who need. To be warned.
To see the presence of the evil and then they have to decide on
their own whether you know they're going to accept that or
whether they're going to embraceit.
The sad thing is in in this community, again, there's a lot
of people where this is a substantial part of their life

(01:20:40):
that they they find an attraction to a power that.
Anti fruit of the. Spirit can get you with the
world, you know, in a tension through hatred and discord and

(01:21:01):
dissension and lacking of love and hatred and all of those
things. People embrace that.
And 1st Corinthians 5 shows us a, a standard that Paul had with
the church to say we we can't tolerate this stuff.

(01:21:28):
You know, that you're freely tolerating evil in your midst
and a little yeast messes up thewhole dough.
So that's how it I picture it here.
The problem is that those kind of things should be done from a
biblical standpoint in private, and that's where the fine line

(01:21:52):
goes. So the right way to do it would
be in private. I don't do.
It that way, but usually, you know, I, I, I would be happy to
talk. For instance, the person I
talked to tonight, if he didn't intend on trying to embarrass me
or disparage me or slander me, he wouldn't have done.
He had these questions for me, allegedly, if he truly sought my

(01:22:15):
best interest. And again, I'm not saying I'm
any different. I like, I, I've made the same
mistakes continuously. But if he truly felt that he
wanted to win a brother or he wanted to get peace or he wanted
to really have answers to his questions, he would have said,
Rob, send me an e-mail. You know, I have these questions
about you. I think you have an identity
crisis. I think you have mental illness.

(01:22:36):
What is happening with you? Those kind of things that he
would have done it in private. I see why.
Does he think there's some? Kind of identity crisis.
I didn't understand any of that that was going on because I'm
because I'm trolling. Him on my own community page.
He he he says that I'm a a cyberstalker and he claims that I am

(01:22:58):
and that he but he stalks me. So I just have to post something
in my community page and he'll respond to it.
Even thinking that something I posted has nothing to do with
him, has everything to do with him.
So there's an element of me trolling a little bit with that
stuff. There's no identity crisis.
My channel is pretty clear and my I'm no different today than I

(01:23:19):
was six months ago. You were saying earlier?
That some of the people that arein the community, both of them,
obviously the big atheists and the religious community, that
you find that some people might actually be mentally ill, yes.
Now you you probably. Realize this just as well as as

(01:23:41):
me. But if somebody is insane or
they're crazy or sociopath, theydon't realize that crazy people
don't know they're crazy. That's where I have, yeah,
that's where I have some empathy.
Because there's, there's people in this community that you know,
I'm a lawyer. I have the means to do certain
things. Who?

(01:24:03):
I could sue, but who I? Am lenient to because of that.
The the problem with. That is that if their their
mental illness leads them to do something that could harm me or
damage me, for instance getting me in trouble with my licensing
board over YouTube drama, then then I all bets are off at that

(01:24:28):
point. But I lawyers.
Lawyers have. Don't lawyers, no matter how big
they are or what level of lawyerthey are, don't they receive
hate mail and, and people are always unhappy because things
didn't go their way or whatever?Well, there's yeah, there's
always. One side, I mean, I do primarily

(01:24:48):
defense work now, so I'm taking depositions of people who I'm
trying to save my client money. And one of the ways that I do
that is to try and spot a holes in their case.
So yeah, I, the people aren't generally fans of me on some
side. That being said, they don't file

(01:25:09):
State Bar complaints against me because I, I hurt their
feelings. You know what I'm saying?
What I what I mean is. What I'm getting at is it's,
it's common practice that peopleare mean.
I mean, you even hear the meme about jokes towards lawyers all
the time, even though I I believe that what they do, a
great deal of them do it becausethey actually care and they feel

(01:25:30):
it's important to bring just to the client.
But the point is, is since it's so common that people complain
and whine, why should there be any concern that any other
complaints could cause you any kind of issue in the first
place? I don't know if I understand
that question. In what context?

(01:25:50):
He's saying if somebody well, because lawyers get complained.
About all the time, Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I have a thick.
Skin because of my choice of career.
So it's it's hard. I'm not talking much personally.
What I mean is, can if someone were to call and be an idiot and
say some ignorant stuff about you, it couldn't actually do
anything to you though, right? Well, I mean it depends.

(01:26:14):
It depends on how far they lie. I mean, the person tonight has
said that I've, I've, I've started a conspiracy against him
that I call him, you know, APDF file, which I never have.
You know, all these various things that if he makes a
complaint to a state licensing board and they don't.

(01:26:38):
See. Through the insanity, and it
requires that I defend myself. Then, you know, it takes time.
It takes time. And that's concerning the
system. The system has so many issues
that it may not be resolved in your favor.
Well, that's a part of the threat.
From the other person, the hooded preacher, the Saint his

(01:27:02):
his claim to me which showed hisanimosity and his desire to harm
me and my family was he feels hegot screwed by the secular
system. So he was going to try and use
the secular system that screwed him to screw me.

(01:27:23):
But you've got a pretty good. Reputation as a lawyer, right?
There's no issues you really gotto worry about, No.
But it's still, it's the. Idea that somebody's out here
over YouTube drama trying to do that and to lead other people to
do it. In fact, in the case of Mr. St.,
he was going to have 30 other people, most of whom I don't

(01:27:47):
even know, sign off on it. And I don't know all the
insurance. And outs of the drama between
you and them. Guys, I don't even know how it
started, but the the only suggestion I can give is it's
obvious that every time you guysare interacting with each other,

(01:28:07):
just flames go up. Maybe just use like an app like
I do where I can completely block the thumbnails and
channels or I never have to hearwhat they say.
Yeah, yeah. And I I don't.
I don't listen. It's usually someone else saying
that they're doing something or they're posting, and I largely
ignore it. Largely ignore it.

(01:28:30):
I hope, I hope. You understand?
I'm not saying you're right or wrong or anything like that, but
I agree. But I.
I'm saying you are right. I I'm agreeing with you that the
drama here isn't worth any. Emotional.
Level, but again, like I said, what, what I've seen the amount

(01:28:50):
of evil that I've seen, particularly against a family
who lost a child that I, I personally can't let go of that.
And it's not even my child who who was harmed.
But it, I guess maybe there's anelement that I think about if
something did happen to my child, that there would be
people who allege who, who say and claim Christ, who would be

(01:29:14):
overjoyed at the harm of my child and mock me for it or the
death of my child. I, I cannot that is that sets me
off so that if you see anything in me, that's it's still, you
know, we're we're picking at that wound and I have to believe
that you totally understand that, especially as a father.
I do. I do.

(01:29:35):
But unless you the. Problem is is that.
You and I are in a position where like if I got people who
are giving me shit, which I do on a daily basis, I have two
choices. I can either take it to the Max
and try to take them to court. Which cops and lawyers around

(01:29:55):
here take the Internet as a damnjoke?
Not even right all that. And that's the advice I
constantly give people is I'm like that.
What is this? I'm not.
They don't want me bothered, youknow, or, or I can.
Continue to listen to what the goons who don't like me say.
See that the only thing it seemslike the only option I got is I

(01:30:16):
can either let them hurt me and they know what hurts me.
So they'll keep doing it becausethat's what manipulative,
hateful people do. So I just block cracks.
I just say, all right, I'm done.I'm not hearing this because
nothing rational is going to come from this side.
And I know and you're, you're extremely intelligent, Rob.
So I'm just saying man, maybe itbreak it off.

(01:30:40):
How did you even manage to see the live show was put up about
you? Well, it appeared in my.
Feed I I was actually testing something on Stream Yard today
because my computer here needed to be updated.
I haven't used in a while and I was thinking of recording some
music, which I actually did earlier.
And at the same time I was prepping to make sure I was

(01:31:02):
updated and got my stream deck together.
And I was doing all this stuff and I was testing it.
And as I was in YouTube testing it, it popped up in my feed as
suggested. I don't even subscribe to these
guys and it was probably suggested because he put my name
in the subject line. I think that I also have.

(01:31:23):
This thing too, Rob, where I annoy people because when I'm
being like confronted and I knowsomeone's trying to dig a hole
for me and throw me into it, I get kind of passive aggressive.
I'm like, well that's awful that's terrible news, you know,
sad to hear about that yeah. And so from.
Yeah, from me. I mean, the thing, I was getting

(01:31:43):
frustrated. I was going to be serious when I
went into Ryan's chat. I probably wouldn't have been
very nice, but instead he went through that whole AI thing and
he booted me three times. And it's like if you put in your
chat in your subject line of your stream yard thing that
you're posting or whatever he's doing, the ex, the Evmex or

(01:32:04):
whatever it is, you put my name and say inviting Rob Reed.
And then you don't allow Rob Reed in because you say he's AI.
Now I'm just going to be, I'm just going to be a total troll
and that. And that's what I did.
You know, I did tell him what I would have told him on a serious

(01:32:25):
level. For instance, there was a
picture of me and a Talit and I was in a Jewish synagogue
because I was at a family member's bar mitzvah and they
asked me. To.
Pray. And I thought it was awesome
because Jesus did the same thing.
And that's what my my Christian wife, who had never seen a bar
mitzvah before, she enjoyed as well.

(01:32:47):
And my son, who had never seen abar mitzvah before.
So what's the issue? Why?
Why does anybody think it's wrong to to pray with another
group of people, even if your views are somewhat different?
Well, I don't think that's. What he was.
Attacking per SE. He was attacking my trolling in
my own community chat where I would call myself former former

(01:33:10):
Jew to indicate, you know, I didthat and then former, former,
former Jew, clearly. It's it's humorous.
And clearly it was made to be designed to make it obvious.
I misspelled Zoroastrianism, put2RS and put a picture of Zorro
to make sure that people were clear that I wasn't misspelling

(01:33:32):
it because I didn't know how to spell it.
And yet, and and this is where the mental illness could be or
it could be autism, whatever it is where this person cannot see
that that's what I did. And he's taking it seriously on
that. He started with community.
Post this started. With Community Post, because

(01:33:55):
Ryan has it out for me and because he knows, as I've told
him, that it's actually a misdemeanor to file a false
State Bar complaint, that State Bar complaints are usually made
by clients who have an attorney and that attorney does something
unprofessional. It's not what they determine.

(01:34:16):
Well, I've never seen, as Ryan said tonight, I've never seen an
attorney act silly on YouTube orsomething.
It's like, OK, but it's not against my professional code of
ethics to be. Silly on.
YouTube and it's silly to believe otherwise.

(01:34:36):
And so that's why I mock it and because he has because he knows
that it's there's potential criminal liability for him that
I warned him and I didn't have to, but I didn't want him to get
into trouble. And I told him and it's the
truth that if this requires thatI win any claim, any complaint
that you make is silly. I have a good reputation in the

(01:34:59):
community. I have no prior misconducts,
nothing like that. I've been doing this for, I've
been a lawyer for 30 years this December that I'm not worried
about it. But if I have to go through the
motions because there's some whack job at the State Bar who
somehow is eating up everything,every lie that Ryan gives them,

(01:35:22):
then it's going to take time andeffort.
And I don't want to have to do time and effort over something.
It's a waste of time that I'll take away from my family and
whatever else. And at the risk that I do get
railroaded by the secular system, right?
Because somebody who knows. There's.
Always a chance that something can happen that doesn't go your

(01:35:43):
way that somebody says yeah, youknow what we need to take away
his license. I don't know.
I don't I can't imagine that would be the case.
But I'm just saying the fact that it would that somebody's
going to go that far because I originally started as the man
will tell you what I talked tonight.
It originally started where I called him a rhymes with Hunt

(01:36:04):
the. Truth is.
He is one of those. So I, I, it wasn't slander, it
was the truth. And that set off a whole range
of things that therefore he was going to file a criminal
complaint against me for hate crimes because he has a
disability. It's insanity, Brett is.

(01:36:27):
What I'm saying? Goodness.
Gracious goodness, gracious is. Right.
Hate crime because I called a guy who happens to have cerebral
palsy. I don't know whether or not he
does. I've never seen his medical
reports. Apparently he does.
I wasn't attacking him because he has cerebral palsy.

(01:36:48):
I was attacking him because he'san asshole.
That's fair enough. Well, you know me, no matter
what condition someone's in, if I feel like you're being an
asshole, I'll let them know. So I get you.
So yeah, I, I, I'm. Much prefer mocking the assholes
and so that's that's mostly whatI do.

(01:37:11):
I just don't have enough as muchtime to do that anymore.
And I don't think that it's really worthwhile.
And, and my endeavour here, particularly with my music and
particularly with the Bible studies that I did is to, is to
win more people for the gospel and to edify the body of Christ
and to help sharpen iron. You know, I, I don't know
everything, not even close as itrelates to God.

(01:37:33):
And I want to hear other perspectives and I want to be
influenced and corrected that should.
Be our attitude, that's. A That's the Jewish tradition,
actually, that we should maintain as Christians is.
Other philosophies. And other thoughts, they're
shared. They're, they're debated.

(01:37:56):
Like debate is just key in the, in the Jewish community, but
particularly in the religious Jewish community among the, the
rabbis and the, the Sanhedrin's and all the, the rabbinic boards
that exist even today. It's all sharing.
And when it's that's kind of funto read the Talmud, you know,
for instance, something about the Babylonian Talmud.
There's some cool stuff there. And it's actually great for

(01:38:19):
Christians in evangelism becauseyou we can actually read rabbis
debating concepts and ideas. And people like Rabbi Tovia
Singer is a counter missionary. He's trying to, to harm
Christians and particularly Christians who are evangelizing
to Jews. He'll say things like, you know,

(01:38:39):
none of the old rabbis believed that Isaiah 53 was talking about
a person, a suffering. Servant AN.
Individual. And it's like, Oh yeah, I can go
to Babylonian Talmud and show you circa 300.
Well. Before 300.
AD where we can read that the rabbis are debating who the

(01:39:01):
suffering servant of Isaiah 53 is.
And it's an individual, it's a mashiach, it's the Messiah.
So he's lying, you know, and so it's the debate is great and and
that's the the great thing aboutYouTube for Christians on a
serious note is to take to listen to both sides, not to say

(01:39:22):
such and such, you know, Lordship salvation.
They're unsaved 7th day Adventists.
They're unsaved free grace, unsaved hyper for not judging
people's salvation, but sharing ideas, learning and then
sharpening iron. And if you're in a you're with a
person who you feel is so far off in their theology, dust your

(01:39:45):
feet if they're a person of peace like right now.
I think, Brett, that we disagreeon a lot of theological
concepts, at least from what I. Remember.
But you're a person of peace right now and and I'd like you
to think that I'm one for with you as well.
So we now we can share those ideas.
I can tell you why. I think I'm right on something.

(01:40:05):
You could tell me why you think you're right on something.
It's only when it gets personal or I start attacking your
salvation where we start. Taking the role.
Of Satan as the accuser, rather than of Christ the Edifier, the

(01:40:29):
Savior. And and Christ.
Will win the day every time there.
And that's that's what we shouldbe focused on, particularly in
this community. Well, I've always encouraged.
People that if they think I'm incorrect about something or
they think I'm misinterpreting to feel free to come in and
correct me or refute me or debunk it, whatever 'cause I do

(01:40:52):
not want to be walking around blindly or I'm thinking that I
understand something if I actually don't.
I want to be corrected so I can be the strongest servant of God
I can possibly be. So I I've got no issue with it.
And I really don't understand why people do get personal and
get ridiculous like that. What's it going to hurt for

(01:41:14):
somebody to say what they disagree with or what their view
is? I'm open minded.
And I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, and I like to think that I
am, too. It's just a shame that it has to
be The Jets versus the Sharks. It's hard for people to do that
in the Christian community. And they try, you know what I
mean, by Jets versus Sharks? I think you're old enough.

(01:41:34):
West Side Story is we're turned into gangs.
You're on this side and we're onthis side.
And and the truth is that there are people on both sides that
actually believe the same things.
They just don't believe in the manner of of of being an accuser
or pointing fingers or judging people's salvation.

(01:41:56):
It's not where I'd want the onlything like I was overjoyed Brett
as all of the angels in heaven were a scripture promises.
When you you started revealing you believed in Jesus as saviors
dying and rising again on the third day for the forgiveness of
sins and there's no better placeto at least start.

(01:42:20):
I don't care if you're a Lordship Salvationist, if you're
an SDAI, don't care if you're a Protestant, a Catholic with that
knowledge as you start and it's up to the Holy Spirit to.
Guide you. Where He wants to at that point
when you confess with your mouththat Jesus is Lord and believe
in your heart that He was raisedfrom the dead on the third day

(01:42:42):
for the forgiveness of sins. He dwells in you and guides you.
And it's that fine line between flesh and spirit.
And God wants us to be in that spirit.
And the measure of that is the fruits.
The measure He's given us the whole laundry list.
Look at love, kindness, peace, gentleness, long-suffering.

(01:43:07):
Those things, there's no. Condemnation against versus the
sentient. Hatred, discord, unkindness.
Hatred, all of those things. If I didn't say that already.
So we've got the guidepost and your demeanor's good, Brett.
It just be be careful of the leaven, you know that that you
might be exposing yourself to. And I'd also say to you like if,

(01:43:30):
because this is the thing that probably hurts me more than
anything else. And what irked me the most about
a mighty wind that I was trying to expose a mighty wind was a
very works based salvation group.
So much so that their leader said that God was keeping a
report card on every single one of them, keeps one on every one

(01:43:51):
of us. And if we don't pass the report
card well enough, God will not let us in.
And that is Islam, that's not Christianity.
And we have to be careful with that.
My my. Goal on.
Here, substantially in the time that I've been here, has been to

(01:44:12):
edify people who proclaim Christ, who are worried about
their salvation based on their works.
To convince them. That God's salvation by grace
that he's given to us through his Son and through through the
blood of Christ. That's the door that we enter.

(01:44:35):
And as John 10 says, it's like he, he, he's never going to let
you go. And there's nothing that can
separate you. No person can do it.
And if no person can do it, thenwhy?
How do I have the power to do that?
A person who a Christian brotheror sister who feels that they're
struggling and that God hates them and they're.

(01:44:57):
Worried about? It I want to.
Impress upon that. Brother and sister and say to
them, the fact that you're worrying about it is the only
evidence that I need as a Christian brother to tell you
that you're secure. You should be secure because a.
Person who? Doesn't worry about pleasing.
God is a person, I'd say, that has something to worry about.

(01:45:26):
So I I definitely. Get confused Rob when I listen
to the different groups going back and forth, especially the
and I've told praise this and I've also said this to Smokey
the whole free grace and everybody going back and forth 1
I don't understand why everybody's angry at each other
why they can't just discuss it through without getting all

(01:45:47):
rough but the second thing is I I.
Think that I might. Fall into the category because
of some of the passages I've read, not because of some of the
influences of other people talking.
But I felt this way even as I was transitioning over because I
had, you understand that when I was a non believer, I felt it

(01:46:09):
was important that if you were going to argue with people, then
you needed to argue based upon the foundation.
Why do they think this way? Why did they believe this way?
So I felt it was very important that if the Bible is in fact the
word of God or believed to be, Ishould study it, I should read
it. And one of the things that came
across was that I'm not saying anything about a report card.

(01:46:32):
And I definitely am not going with Mighty Wind here, but it
does seem as though the works and the sins that people commit
are held to them on Judgement Day.
And I can give passages and sources if you'd like.
I know I. Know where they would be
probably you know, I've I've heard the arguments before, but
what what happens is the way I see it is there's an old.

(01:46:58):
Covenant that. Served a purpose.
The new covenant that. Serves the higher purpose.
The new covenant, The old. Covenant designed for a a small
nomadic tribe, but for all people to to allow all people,
Gentile and Jew, to be able to measure our worthiness to be in

(01:47:21):
relationship with the Almighty Creator on our own.
But one of my favorite. Chapters in this conversation is
the book of Hebrews, like a person who depends on works for
their salvation has. To ignore.

(01:47:43):
The book of Hebrews, I mean the book of Hebrews I I think about
Hebrews 8, which is something I was studying fairly recently.
I did a video on my YouTube channel on this very issue is.
If we read Hebrews. 87 first, ifthere had been, and this is NIV,

(01:48:06):
so forgive me if you're not an NIV guy, but it's plain English.
It makes more sense to me for ifthere had been nothing, I'm not.
I'm not a strict. Person where I say it's got to
be a certain book so don't worryabout it good OK, but but the.
The sum and substance of Hebrews8.
In particular, it refers to the Old Covenant, the laws, as a

(01:48:27):
covenant of fault that there was.
Something not. Right with it in.
Fact the author of. Hebrews says, For if there had
been nothing wrong with that first covenant, the old
covenant, no place would have been sought for another if all
we needed was salvation by works.

(01:48:49):
Then there would be. No need for the new covenant,
but it continues it says, but God found fault with the people
and said and then he quotes Jeremiah 31 days are.
Coming when I will make. A new covenant, and it's a new
covenant that will not. Be.

(01:49:10):
Based on the do's and don'ts of the law.
But I God says he will write thelaws on our hearts which I I
alluded to earlier, the conversation of with prophet
prophet Joel, where at some timethe Holy Spirit will fall on all
people, which I think is all already happened where we know
atheist, believer, Catholic, Christian, Protestant, Muslim,

(01:49:33):
everyone in the world knows right from wrong instinctively.
That's the gift of. God in the era of the faultless
covenant, the new covenant, where God writes the law on our
hearts, not as a checklist of do's and don'ts, but for us to
have a recognition of our need for a Savior or an intermediary

(01:49:59):
who is. Perfect who?
Does meet the law so that we have a means to enter into right
relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in eternity,
not by works that we do, but by the work and the faith that
Jesus did and hath and it doesn't get any clearer than

(01:50:21):
that. I mean Paul even says our faith
is not by works lest we should boast it's but that being said,
God and and how I reconcile thisis God wants us to obey him.
The law isn't there as arbitrary, for instance, you
know. Eating bottom.
Feeder food, you know, fish thateat crap on the bottom is not

(01:50:45):
going to be the best thing for us.
And there's probably a reason, like in my case, that I get
occasional gout attacks from eating too much shrimp or
lobster or whatever it is. Those things, God.
The God's Law. Is leads us to good and better
things that God intends for us. But in the end, as Paul reveals

(01:51:08):
to us in the New Testament, the law isn't there as the checklist
of do's and don'ts. And obviously I'm paraphrasing.
It's there turned back to us as a mirror so that we can see
everything that we do wrong. And there's going to be
something when there's the laundry list of the people who

(01:51:29):
won't inherit the Kingdom of God.
If you don't find yourself in that even today, then you're a
liar. And we see.
You agree? Though that and remember we can
disagree. And now still yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, sure. I.
Understand that you're. Very used to people just being

(01:51:51):
this outright hateful and all that and the book of
Revelations, it says that it hasan entire list of people who are
not going to get in that they'llbe thrown like fire liars,
idolaters and cheaters and and it goes on for a good long time.
I think that it even mentioned certain sexual perversions.
Don't want to get my channel in trouble.

(01:52:13):
So you get, you get where I'm. Going with that.
But. If that's the case.
And someone comes along and theyclaim to be a Christian, yet
they lie, lie, lie like you haveactually pointed out some
people. You feel it's done and
perceived, then how could you? You say, well they can be that,
but they can also thou shalt notlie, bear false witness, but

(01:52:37):
they break that over and over. You see what I'm getting out of
here? I totally do, and I.
Understand that, but again, thatis how.
Without. Jesus, I'm not a universalist.
So there's a choice that we're given.
Remember Universe? But I'm not a universalist.
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. But remember.
Like in Revelation, I don't remember where it is, but

(01:52:59):
there's this picture of the Saints and they're dressed all
in white, right? They're they're being dressed in
white, in other words, as a symbol of perfection, purity,
righteousness is not because of anything they did, but because
of what Jesus did and because they aligned with him.
And when the Father sees the people in white, he sees the

(01:53:24):
face of his son. He doesn't see them and what
they've done so. I would I.
Reconcile that with all. Those who are in.
Christ through belief and saved,therefore God looks upon them.
As white as. Snow not because of what they

(01:53:45):
do, but because of what he Jesusdid.
And so while each and every one of them is a thief and a liar
and a adulterer at heart, or however maybe physically and all
those things, that God that doesn't see that anymore.

(01:54:05):
That being said, it's. It's good for us to I believe
and and it's a dirty word in free grace being convicted.
I don't know why, but God convicts us of things that we do
bad. But it's Satan, I believe, who
convicts us deep more deeply of the things we do bad to make us

(01:54:28):
believe when we are in Christ that God will turn His back on
us or leave us. Remember when?
I think it's in Mark and it's maybe in Matthew.
I can't remember but when. When the person says to.
Jesus, Lord, Lord, you know whenhe says I never knew you?

(01:54:50):
What are those? What are those?
People saying well but wait a minute, God you should have
known me because look at all theworks I did.
They don't say look at my. Faith.
They don't. Say but Lord.
I Lord, Lord, I I believed in you, I believed in your promise
and I believe that you saved me.They said no Jesus, let me let

(01:55:11):
me show you the checklist of things of why I think you do
need to know me and why I deserve to be with you.
I don't think when when you readthese.
Passages and I I understand that, but has it ever come
across your mind just said all that Jesus being who he was, he

(01:55:32):
could see into their heart. Even though they claimed they
did all these things. He knows that they truly
believed in him. A lot of these people who were
making all these claims in the Bible, they were liars
themselves. They were people who were trying
to test him and challenge him constantly.
I I'm not a what I'm not saying I'm not saying that it's all

(01:55:54):
works or nothing kind of thing. I believe that Jesus doesn't
want any of us to perish and he'll go all the way to bat for
us and dead. The the issue is, I don't think
that someone you were talking about conviction earlier.
And for me, that's how I know when I'm dealing with an actual
brother and sister in Christ, when they know they'll do wrong
or they unwillfully do somethingwrong, they feel conviction of

(01:56:17):
it. That's how I know I'm dealing
with a good person. But we don't.
We don't always get. See, that's the thing.
We we don't always get convicted.
You know, I didn't get convictedenough tonight to not go and
troll in that chat. And I don't think that's what
Jesus intended for me to go there and to try and embarrass
someone. And I think that I did.

(01:56:38):
But you've tried other. Things in the past, you're just,
you're just irritated at this point.
Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying.
I'm saying that I don't think I lost salvation because I did
that. It is possible, I believe, to
disappoint God in the same way that it we can disappoint our
earthly fathers, our earthly mothers, or you know, like our

(01:56:58):
own children disappoint us at some period of time.
But we our love for our childrendoesn't change.
And when we profess belief and we really believe in our heart,
we become children of God. These are all promises of
Scripture and we have blessed assurance in that.

(01:57:20):
I do think that there are peoplethat have a false sense who
think that they're saved. Where what I usually.
See is is a people and I see it today in this community as well
as people who profess Christ, but rather than.
Have the Holy Spirit. Work in them to promote Lovejoy,

(01:57:43):
kindness, patience, gentleness. They use their identity as a
Christian as a means of condemnation for others.
Especially. Christians, people of the faith,
and I'm reminded of Romans 81. Therefore, there's no
condemnation for all those who are fully known in Christ and to

(01:58:06):
be fully known in Christ. Again, I'm paraphrasing, is not.
You're not fully known. Because of your good works.
Good works should. Naturally come out of your faith
for sure, but it is possible I believe for a believer to have a
dead faith and yet still be saved.

(01:58:30):
It's just their life is going tobe a struggle.
And most importantly, I don't think God will use those people
in any way shape or form to influence.
He'll just let them do their ownthing I like.
To think, for instance. That the people too, in
particular that I've mentioned directly tonight and then

(01:58:53):
sometimes indirectly that they are brothers in Christ.
But I and I would like, I would persuade them to obey, but they
don't. There's not a promotion among
those two people of Lovejoy, patience, kindness, and all of

(01:59:15):
those things. There's a promotion of hatred
and discord and dissension and factions and all of those
things. And it, it makes me wonder, the
best thing that I can do for that is not to condemn them and
say that they're not Christian. It would be simply to say, like
you said, we said before, dusting feet to dust feet.

(01:59:37):
They're not a person of peace for me.
Hope for the best and hope that I do see them in heaven, but I
don't know how that works. Isn't that interesting?
People that we don't get along with here, how do we get along
with them in the next World? It's a good point.
You mind if I share with a couple verses?
I'd like to hear what your view is on it and it's remember I'm

(01:59:57):
not doing a gotcha or trying to find.
Oh sure and I may not. Have an answer but I'll try.
I just want to hear your. Views on it.
All right, I'll do three of them.
Revelation 2012, thirteen. If you want to write it down,
you can. And it says, then I saw the
dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and the books

(02:00:18):
were open, and the dead were judged by what was written in
the books according to what theyhad done. 2nd Corinthians 510
says, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of
Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what He
has done in the body, whether good or evil.
And then there's one more, and this is actually in Romans,

(02:00:41):
Romans 268. He will render to each one
according to his works, to thosewho by patience and well doing
seek for glory and honor any mortality, He will give eternal
life. But for those who are self
seeking and do not obey the truth, there will be wrath and
fury. What's your thoughts?

(02:01:02):
Let's, let's we. We would need to go to each one.
So I want to I didn't get I didn't get the second one, but
I'll I'll get that in a second from you.
I got the first. So it's Revelation 20.
And what was the verses again? You got Revelation. 20/12/13 All
right, then you got Second Corinthians 5-10, and then

(02:01:24):
you've got Romans 6-8. If you need me to repeat it,
it's fine. No, no, no.
We can go I. Mean I I could probably give you
a better answer if I studied andI usually I find that God gives
us an answer somewhere around the the part where there's a
dispute. Well, here let me let me do
something. For you, that'll make it easier

(02:01:45):
for you when you do look into it.
Yeah, I'm looking at actually I.Actually did a.
Community post about this and sofar nobody came at me on it.
It wasn't meant to like oh come get me baby kind of thing but
it's me sharing my view and I thought if anybody thought I was
incorrect feel free to refute it.

(02:02:07):
I didn't see it, but let's let's.
Start this because I I was in the community.
Private chat. Yeah, Yeah.
I'll look at that. Later, but I do want to let's
address the the scriptures. OK, so there's in in the verses
that you cite in Revelation. We'll start there.
We've got a book of life. The book is open, dead or judged

(02:02:28):
according to what they have doneas recorded in the books.
When we go to the very next. Part of the vision, I would say
that this is a vision of what judgement is like and this is
just thus saith robbery. Without.
A new covenant under the old immediately the vision I think

(02:02:53):
sorry for my dog if you can hearmy dog because I think people
are I can hear him a little bit but.
He ain't cutting me off. I think people are popping.
Fireworks and she's crazy I'm assuming.
Otherwise I got to check. Do you need to let him in or?
Something No, no, no, no. She's in.
She's in. She's just barking from the
fireworks. I'm guessing so the very next
part after those verses, you know, and remember this, this

(02:03:13):
wasn't chaptered and versed and written and typewritten.
You know, it was a, it was sort of like a letter form.
There weren't numbers and you know all those things.
So what comes next after that isn't a new thing.
The the author, John the Revelator, he tells us right
away after that vision of peoplebeing judged according to what

(02:03:34):
they've done. Then, says the writer, I saw a
new heaven and a new earth, for the 1st heaven and the first
earth had passed away. And there was no longer.
Any sea sea like. What was there A.
Reference to a sea there too in 20.

(02:03:55):
I I thought that there was. Hold on.
Yeah, there seems to be a. Transition over to a new earth
and a right and so. What?
What John the. Revelator, I would submit in
this and I do want to go over each one.
He's envisioning the judgement without the Lamb.

(02:04:16):
Anyone whose name was not. Found written in the book of
Life, was thrown into the lake of fire.
Do think that is a reality for people who are not in Christ,
who don't believe, who are not apart of children of God through
the Lamb. But the hope that John the
revelator revelator get gives usas Christian believers after

(02:04:37):
that is the new the. Old is gone in other.
Words. This part of Revelation is
reflecting the covenant of faultthat we just addressed in
Hebrews 8, and it's the faultless covenant, the new
covenant that then is like the the the clouds disperse of

(02:04:58):
judgment. There's no condemnation for all
those who are in Christ. Romans 8 one that now there's a
vision of the new that there'll.Be no more.
Death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of
things has passed away. He who was seated on the throne,
God said, I am making everythingnew.

(02:05:20):
Write this down, for these wordsare trustworthy and true.
He said Jesus, I am. It is done.
The very next chapter. It gives us the hope that we do
not have if all we have is Revelation 20.
That's my answer to that. The next one was Second
Corinthians. What?

(02:05:43):
All right, let me get. It for you 2nd Corinthians
chapter 5 verse 10 For we must all appear before the judgment
seat of Christ so that each may receive what is due for what he
has done in the body, whether good or evil.
And I also want to tell you in case I didn't say this, I agree.

(02:06:04):
I believe that God wired morality into us.
Even even non believers will saythings like well we don't have
morality because we don't believe in God.
I believe that God put morality in all of us.
It's our choice if we want to feed into it though.
But did you get the verse? Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm.

(02:06:25):
Reading because usually, like I said, the the I think God gives
us an answer surrounding it. I'll be right back while you're.
Checking that out, I got to use the rest area.
Sure, yeah, no problem. I don't.
Have too much longer but but it's been fun I.
Enjoy hanging out with you. Rob, I'm sorry that you deal

(02:06:48):
with the aggravation. Maybe you should start
fellowshipping with me. I'm a good encourage we could we
could talk more for. Sure, go ahead, Go to the
bathroom. I'm going to eat some.
Hope you don't put this on. All right, I am.

(02:08:31):
Back let. Me.
See, here's what I'd. Say about that.
About Second Corinthians 510 can't just can't just cherry
pick single little verses and goout.
I mean, remember. 1. Of the things I enjoy about
Paul's letters, I don't know if enjoy is the right word, but.

(02:08:53):
There's no point in his. Letters where he's writing, for
instance, now he's writing to the Corinthians or he writes to
the Galatians or he writes, he, he writes letters of
condemnation, I mean, or, or correction.
He's trying to correct them. He's rebuking them.
He's doing it all the ways according to the fruit of the
Spirit, which I love. But we don't see him at any
point in time here with the. Corinthians, for instance.

(02:09:16):
He's trying to correct them and they're not listening to him.
That's why he writes another letter.
They didn't listen to him the first time.
In other words, like in First Corinthians 5, which we
mentioned before, they said get this guy out of your church, you
know, don't accept this kind of sin within your community.
But he never said that that guy's not saved.
He never said in his rebukes here that you guys have lost

(02:09:38):
your salvation. You want to keep your salvation.
What he's reminding them, and wecan see this in context because
I'm reading the chapters before we got Second Corinthians 5 for
sure, but Second Corinthians 3 we'll see him say and remember
these aren't delineated by this is all the same letter earlier
in the letter, not very far before he says that we have this

(02:10:00):
confidence through Christ beforeGod.
Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for
ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
He has made us confident, competent as ministers of a new
covenant, not of the letter thatis not of the law, but of the
Spirit, For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

(02:10:22):
But what he wants to warn them is don't take that for granted.
He's wanting to remind. Them to live and lead lives that
are worthy of the calling that we have been given by Christ.
But he's not telling them that they're not saved.
He's he. Is saying.
How embarrassed basically is theway that I reason this how

(02:10:44):
embarrassed are you going to be when you're at the Bema seat of
Christ and in your all of that your life sins are going to be
presented and you're going to look no different than the guy
who doesn't know Jesus and that you continued in the filth so
without. Any.

(02:11:05):
Conviction, you know, as we talked about without any guilt,
without any why, you know, why would you want to do that?
And yet I understand where you're coming from.
But Paul never says and and I, you can correct me, but I he
doesn't say here, unless you getyourself better, unless you iron
out every wrinkle and clean out every spot and blemish, God's

(02:11:29):
going to say, look, you know, I never knew you.
He doesn't say that, he says. Why?
Why wouldn't? You want to be better.
But all the. While he's saying, and I see
this, this is Second Corinthians5, two, since then we know this
is just right after the line, right after 10.

(02:11:50):
Since then we know what it is tofear the Lord.
We try to persuade others. In essence, what kind of witness
are you for me to bring to so that I can use you to be to
bring more people to me? You're a horrible witness if you
look no different than they do what we.

(02:12:11):
Are. Continues Paul is plain to God,
and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
We're not trying to commend ourselves to you.
We're not saying we're better, but are giving you an
opportunity to take pride in us so that you can answer those who
take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the
heart. All of this.
Stuff. Is not a condemnation of you

(02:12:33):
better behave yourself or you'regoing to lose your salvation.
It's you better behave yourself because Christ is worthy.
Well, I I agree with. A lot of the points and I feel
like you're on to something, butthere's these the passages with
Jesus Christ were as you pointedout where they say look what

(02:12:53):
I've done, look at this and all that and then he's able to see
into their hearts. Let's take for example, if you
and I, we we were trying to finda good church together or
something, you and I were hanging out and go have lunch or
whatever, and then we walked in the churches.
Now, anybody can tell us they believe, but the only way we're

(02:13:14):
truly going to be able to discern if they are who they say
they are is by what their actions and how they do things.
We have to look at their peer into the fruit of what's
happening in front of us. And if it's not showing, then
what does Jesus say? They're weeds.
They're going to be burned well.Without him for sure, but.

(02:13:37):
He who began a good. Work in US, he promised to
finish it and I would say if if people aren't getting finished,
it could be that they never knewhim at all.
That's what I would say. And that's how I reconcile,
because I am once saved, always saved, that that it is possible
that someone has professed something for.

(02:13:59):
A. Reason that is outside of their
recognition of the real need fora savior, because they're
they're wretches. I think that there are many
people out there who don't thinkthey're wretches that that Jesus
though, gives them something that they aspire for.
Many people who maybe suffer from a chronic case of

(02:14:23):
narcissism who think they reallydon't need God, but they'll
they'll hedge their bets and andbring him in as like a their
little guarantee at but use thatto still believe that on their
own merit and their own works, they're they're great.
The the end of. 2nd Corinthians 5 says you do agree though, Rob.

(02:14:48):
That if you and I were trying tofind good, good talking and
walking Christians, we'd have tobase it upon what we see their
actions doing. They if they truly believe in
God and they're saved, then their actions would show.
I think. Yes, yes.
But, but again, we've alluded tothis before.

(02:15:09):
So if we're consistent, because you, you also believe as I do,
that we are not in a position todetermine whether or not they're
saved or not. We are in the right position to
determine or not whether or not they would be helpful for our
own walk, whether they'd be helpful for our families,
whether I would want my kid to be exposed to a certain person.
Let's just say you know, a certain person.

(02:15:30):
I've already mentioned I wouldn't even have him babysit
my child, let alone teach him any Bible.
So I can make determinations as to what I will do with somebody
or as to whether I will fellowship with someone, but far
be it for me to make the determination as to whether that
person is indeed saved or not. It's not for me to know that.

(02:15:53):
Again, as you said, God knows the heart.
Yeah. And I and I don't know the
heart. So I do agree with you that it's
not my determination. I'm not going to push God out of
His throne to make the decision on that.
But I do, I do think that we have to have some form of
discernment or we're going to beLED astray.

(02:16:14):
Sure, no doubt. And so we need, we do.
That's why God gave us, you know, in Galatians 5, we've got
the list of the people that we want to teach us, the people
that we want to hang around to make us better, the brothers and
sisters. And it's the reverse of
oftentimes what we see on here. But Jesus gives like I think

(02:16:38):
about John 10, John 10 is. So huge for.
The Christian and and needs to be filtered through all these
verses you're saying and I wouldlike to look at Romans 2 next if
we can from those verses you looked at.
But sure Jesus, Jesus says as itrelates to his life in John 10.

(02:16:59):
No one takes his life from him. He lays it down by his own
accord. He says, and I I love this.
It goes further into John 1025. They start accusing him and and.
Saying how long you're going to.Keep us in suspense.

(02:17:20):
If you're the Messiah, tell us plainly.
And he says, I did tell you. He's admitting that he is, but
you do not believe the works. I do in.
My father's name testify about me, but you do not believe he's
talking about belief. These people are are hindered by
the sin of unbelief. My sheep listen to my voice.

(02:17:42):
I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and
they shall never perish. No one will snatch them out of
my hand. And when?
We see. That, and we read earlier, I
think it is that they that I am the door, he says.
And when they come in, yeah, I am the gate.

(02:18:04):
Whoever enters through me will be saved.
It's not whoever enters through me will be saved.
So long as there's no modification to that.
It's enter through me and be saved.
And Paul's instructions to the people who are already saved is

(02:18:24):
live your lives worthy of the calling.
I think of Colossians 3 since then.
And this is good advice for you and for me and everyone on
YouTube since then, you, Brett, me, Ryan, Smokey, Bill, whoever,
Bruce, since then you've been raised with Christ.
Set your hearts and minds on things above, not on earthly

(02:18:47):
things above where Christ is seated at the right hand of the
Father. For you, Brett, for me, for all
who believe in Christ have died and our life is now hidden with
Christ and God. That is quite a promise and it's
not conditional. And I, and I think if you're
wise to want to live life worthyof the calling of Christ and his

(02:19:12):
sacrifice for us, which we take so for granted all the time, He
is indeed worthy of our obedience.
But I don't want you, Brett, or your family, or for you to be
worried that if you believe and if you're worried and if you are
monitoring yourself and correcting yourself constantly,
that is a great posture to be in.

(02:19:34):
But please don't lose your assurity, your your blessed
assurance. I think of the hymn that we have
in Christ as after we've gone through him, the gate.
I hear you. And you, but you had said

(02:19:54):
earlier something that was really interesting.
You said that one of your biggest concerns when you're
exposing evil is you don't want people to be influenced.
So doesn't it kind of, I don't know, it just it sounds strange
where it's one thing is once we're in the hands of God, we

(02:20:15):
can't be pulled away. But you're you actually, on the
other hand, believe that some people can be influenced into
it. We all are influenced.
'Cause we, we all fail at this point, you know, I, I've
revealed some of my failures there.
It's not the failure. My worry is not that someone's
going to lose their salvation. My worry is that in this life,

(02:20:36):
they're. In it's the same.
Worry that Paul had that they'regoing to be bad witnesses, that
they're going to be led to do things that are displeasing to
God, that they're. Going to be.
An embarrassment for the Christian community, Those.
Kind of things. And that there might be young
people who. Are not truly.

(02:20:59):
Saved young people who like are attracted to the power they can
get by proclaiming themselves asChristian, you understand, And
they get influenced by the evil,whether it's using filthy
language, using whatever you know, condemnation being the
name of the game, all of those things that can take a person

(02:21:20):
who is truly not saved but close.
And put them farther. Away.
I'm worried about those people and want to expose the evil for
them, but for the brother and sister, the one who truly
believes in their heart. I believe that they're eternally
secure, but that they can be. An embarrassment to the.

(02:21:41):
Community that they can be used by Satan to push people who
don't truly know Jesus in their hearts farther away from from
him you. Know there was a.
Christian a while back, one of the last discussions I had as a
former atheist that said something really phenomenal to

(02:22:02):
me. It really clicked and had me
thinking for a long, long time. The Christian asked me, do you
believe in evil? And I go, yes, I, I do believe
there's evil in the world over in abundance of it.
That's one of the reasons I why I question God is what I said.
And he goes, well, do you believe that evil is objective

(02:22:24):
or is it just based upon your opinion?
And I said, no, I, I think that evil actually actually does
exist, whether people perceive it or not or or know what it is.
And he goes, well, if that's thecase, you've been a rational,
logical guy, Mr. King. Then shouldn't there also be the
opposite? There should be objective good.

(02:22:46):
It was interesting because he turned evil into an argument on
why there should be objective good as well.
And boy, that kept me up night. Yeah.
Yeah. That's that's great.
There's a great book that I'd recommend, but it's hard to
read. It's tough because the guy's
really, really brilliant. Alvin Plantiga, The Problem of
Evil. And he he lays out a

(02:23:07):
philosophical defense of the problem and why it exists.
And it it the sum and substance of it, or at least the thing
that resonates with me, that stays with me because it's way
above my pay grade in terms of, you know, brightness and
intelligence. Is is the concept of Planticus
concept he presents? Could God design a world?

(02:23:34):
Where he gives. People, the gift of free will
and the the world. There is no evil that exists in
the world, and the logical, reasonable answer to that is no.
It, it's impossible. It's like a square circle.
It's it's impossible for God to design a world where his.

(02:23:54):
Creation has. Free will to do that which is
opposite of Him. God is all good, the standard.
Of good is God. Himself.
And when we have a choice. To do something outside of that
standard, God has. Allowed that to.
Happen because in any real true relationship there has.

(02:24:15):
To be sort of a. Reciprocal.
Not sort of, but an actual reciprocal choice of I choose
you and you choose me. That's.
That is a loving God and that's why I love our God, that he
doesn't force himself upon us and He's created a world for us

(02:24:36):
where we have the choice. Evil comes not from God.
I know that some. Scripture that some people
interpret the Scripture and I think I think you do as well.
There's a line in the scripture that says God creates calamity
or God creates evil. I I used to hold.
The position of maltheism and you don't anymore 'cause I.

(02:24:57):
Thought you were a maltheist. No, I, I sat down.
With some Christians who were willing to actually discuss it
with me and they hammered out some lots of.
But there. There.
There. Wasn't, you know, why it lasted
so long as the moment I came outwith it and asked for people to
refute me, I had people. They just got mad.
And they just. Saying all right, let's.

(02:25:19):
Talk. Well, I I'm talking.
To you right now and I believe that you are a Malpheus so I, I
give you the respect for that but I I want it I'm glad that
you're not there It it's you know it's the.
Same way light. Goes darkness.
Is it it? There is no such thing as
darkness in and. Of itself.
It's just nothing, right? The only thing that delineates

(02:25:41):
and creates the label darkness is the existence of light.
If there's no light, there cannot be darkness.
It's just the de facto. It is what it is.
It's just existence, which just happens to be the absence of
light. Light is God is light.
You know, the, the, the, the word.
So when God says let there be light and there was suddenly

(02:26:03):
there was darkness. So God indirectly, if you know
to be fair to the mouthiest or the God indirectly by creating
light, creates in quotes darkness, but it's really the
only the the creation of light that delineates and provides a
label so we can understand what darkness is and that the same

(02:26:26):
thing is with good and evil God.Is all good.
His mere presence, He does everything good and just and
right, but by His creation of something out of his own love,
allowing them to do something outside of His goodness.
Suddenly, like light, with the presence of His perfect de facto

(02:26:49):
goodness, suddenly there is a label.
We now know what evil is, and God in quotes creates evil
simply by His very existence andallowing His creation to have
the capability to do the opposite of good.

(02:27:10):
It's not God that does the. Evil it is US people.
Starve because. Of people's greed people lose
their lives because of you know if if they're harmed or murdered
or injured by someone causing harm to them and because of the
way that God designed all. Creatures and all.

(02:27:33):
Things There's also these competing interests.
The the things that cause. Cancer and all of those things,
those horrible things. I would say they're they're just
creatures. They're all part of and those
creatures are malevolent, or rather they probably don't have

(02:27:54):
any bacteria, doesn't have any mental capacity, but other than
self preservation, a selfish desire for self preservation, or
the cancer cell has a selfish desire to continue to replicate
itself to the harm of the host. All of those things just simply
come out of God's decision to create a world where we.

(02:28:16):
Grow. Where we have experiences.
And that goes to the point againof pain and evil.
How? How do we know?
That which is good and virtuous.If we don't know that which is
not good and not virtuous, we are attracted in our.

(02:28:38):
Stories and in. Our fiction We're attracted to
heroes and we're attracted to the courageous.
But what makes a hero and what makes someone courageous depends
on there being a need to be brave and to take a chance and
to risk. In other words, without evil, we

(02:29:00):
don't have those great virtues. We don't know what they mean.
That's a part of the. Growing.
Process here and when it. Comes to.
You know, calamity and hurricanes and tornadoes and
earthquakes and things. Again, it's just a part of the
system. The system.
Earthquakes happen because things shift, and this all

(02:29:21):
exists in a certain way. Because it just had.
To that's the way that it was made.
And we make choices, for instance, to, you know, buy our
houses in fire zones and, you know, I think about Los Angeles
or buy nice houses on near the oceans where we could or rivers

(02:29:41):
like in Texas where we could getflooded and people die.
When we make these conscious decisions to do things like
that, it's. It's not something that.
I can answer one, but that's howI reconcile it.
And I'm glad that you because I I, I don't like when people
think that God is has any part of evil himself because it, it

(02:30:01):
just, that makes no sense to me.That's contrary to my
understanding of his nature. Well, one of the.
Reasons why I got into that a while back and I am out of it.
I have many different explanations that are satisfying
for me and why I was able to getout of the position, but I know

(02:30:22):
why it it caused me into it. And the reason why is the
understanding, the knowledge that God has creating the devil,
knowing, having the foreknowledge of what the devil
was capable of doing, knowing that Adam and Eve was going to
do what they were doing. It wasn't so much saying that
God himself is evil, but I believe that there was at some

(02:30:46):
point evil needed to exist alongside the light.
Just as you had said. In order for free will to be
optimal, you had to have the worst, and you had to have the
light in order for you to be able to have a contrast of the
two. It wasn't that I was saying he
was evil, just capable of destruction it.

(02:31:06):
It's not. That evil has to exist along
with free will. I don't think it's that.
I think that it's evil is the natural byproduct of the
existence of free will. That that's how I it.
Makes more sense to me. Not that you know, because,
again, Satan is Satan because hehad a choice.

(02:31:31):
Unfortunately, that. Was what I fell into because I
fell into what is called the problem of evil so well.
Yeah, if you. If you want some.
Tough reading. It's, it's small, it's short and
I, I would, I think it might be in my bookshelf over there.
It's not here, but it look up Alvin Plantinga and it's a

(02:31:52):
problem of evil. So it's but it it it will
require you not to have anythingin the background or any
distractions or anything like that you know before.
I even announced back then that I was going towards that
position or felt as though I waslured in that direction.
You know, I tried to get a hold of people behind the scenes

(02:32:13):
before I made it public. I tried talking to people and
seeing if this was the correct way and it just, I, I kept on
running into nonsense or people just saying they didn't have
time and you didn't talk to me. I I've.
Got time I I love this stuff. I eat and breathe it and so if
you if you ever use the pattern Rob where if someone.

(02:32:35):
Talks about their views especially publicly online
instead of people just having a fellowship together and talking
things out like what we're doingright now people just
immediately use that as a way tobe able to burn somebody well
you'll you'll see there's. Probably something that I've
said now if you edit it or whatever that it will be used
against me already, anything that I do like this.

(02:32:58):
So you'll see. It'll happen.
Oh, I know. I.
I fart wrong and stuff, it's going to be made, yeah.
So it's just a natural. Thing for me to volunteer to to
do something like that. I want to talk with you because
I'm glad you're back. I enjoy your your content when I
do have time to watch it. And I would just want to
encourage you to, you know, stayaway from the 11 if you can

(02:33:19):
identify it. As you said, there's certain
things that you that we should be able to identify at the very
least to know that doesn't feel right.
That doesn't look right. It's not worth subscribers if I
fellowship or hang out with a certain type of person with a
certain type of unrepentant attitude.
Who would call, let's say, a victim of a crime that he pled

(02:33:42):
guilty to that bitch? You know it's.
These are things that these are people in any not even in a
Christian community before I became a Christian that I
wouldn't want to have anything to do with.
And if I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them from a
secular world because they were so evil according to that hard

(02:34:04):
wiring instinct that I that I know, why would I want to do
that in in in a Christian circle?
And that's Paul's point consistently in all the letters
that we've identified today. It's not saying people you need
to be scared for your salvation.It's that Christ is worthy of

(02:34:24):
our best behavior, so do better.I I get why?
Some groups of people, especially certain names have
been mentioned are a bit salty and why there's issues, but
there is one person that I don'tunderstand why people get
irritated with and I've talked to them for a long time.
I'm not trying to justify anything but that goal.

(02:34:48):
I don't understand why people get rough on him for I I love
veckel I think. He's great.
I've had. Some issues with.
Veckel and my biggest I think the thing with Veckel.
And you know I. Don't know, I can't speak for
other people, but he he and it'sjust positive too as he gives

(02:35:09):
everyone a fair shake. That being said, there's
something to be said about what you said.
Related like where where I think.
Beckel can get. Himself into trouble and get if
he's one of the guys I'm thinking of, you know that I
talked about who I want to protect because I think giving a

(02:35:33):
fair shake is good. Giving a fair shake at the
expense of the fruits of the spirit and the desires of God
for us is another story. And the worst part about it is
when the theologies, particularly being taught by
where I think the evil exists, when the theologies also are so

(02:35:56):
hypocritical that their works based and their works are
horrible and they lead people toother bad works.
As you can see, whether it's gossip and slander and pointing
fingers and judgement and all these things, they're doing it
and at the other side of their mouth they're saying those who
do those things aren't going to stay saved.

(02:36:18):
It's a. Cornucopia of hypocrisy that can
lead a proper Christian brother into weakening his witness and
weakening his walk is the best that I would say there.

(02:36:38):
But I, I think my personal feelings about Beckel is like, I
think he's, he's great. He hangs around people that I'm,
I'm not fond of at all, though. He's got a, he's got a lot.
Of views that the reason why I find it strange is because
there's a lot of things about him that are a lot like the way
you view things where he has told me he doesn't want people

(02:37:02):
getting influenced by negativityhe doesn't he feels that he
needs to go in and expose evil and correct people and all that
he's got the same mindset but for some reason he takes heat
for making the attempt no it's the same heat that I.
Get, you know, it's like you were saying, you know why Ryan
was doing the thing and the heatthat I get for for doing that.

(02:37:24):
Because often times when Veckel gets involved, you know, I don't
want to gossip about him too much, but I would just say this
is just a small talk about a brother.
When Veckel gets involved and hegets heated, it's usually when
he's been attacked. Like Veckel, I don't.
Think has gone out of his way todo a video about something that

(02:37:47):
I've said or something I did, and maybe he will now, I don't
know, but I don't think so. I think I'm being fair to him
because I've never in a public chat chastised him like too
egregiously, I don't think. And if I did, I would apologize.
But I, I do think that he's in circles right now that are not

(02:38:09):
healthy for him, but I am, we can agree to disagree with that.
And me and Freckle and, and I don't go to his chats now
because of that. So if, if he was going to have
an influence on me in any way, for instance, if I'm wrong about
something, his witness has been greatly tarnished because I, I

(02:38:30):
don't, I'm not going to hang there.
He's. Hanging with evil.
Beckel and I were. And probably yourself as well.
We're kind of in a dilemma here because it it seems like no
matter where I go in social media, no matter what rooms, no
matter what group, even if I don't agree with a lot of the

(02:38:52):
people I'm in a room with, it's like I immediately get the
guilty by association thing. Oh yeah.
How are you supposed to reach out to people?
How are you supposed to get through to somebody if you don't
jump into the the pool? You know what I mean?
And that's why I can't in the. End I'm not going to I don't
condemn. I I hope I didn't veckle for who

(02:39:17):
he hangs out with. It's just I'm I'm not going to
hang out in those circles with those people in there.
And why I'm not going to condemnhim for that, though, is and
goes to the point of what you'resaying that God's model, Jesus's
model for us is, you know, the dust your feet model.
If someone who I don't like who?I think needs some.

(02:39:42):
Spiritual help is a person of peace to veckle.
Then I trust that. God will use Veckle to influence
them for good. That's my hope.
The. Problem is you know.
When I've what I've seen come out of it, I just.
I I. See those people?
Affecting Beckel in a way that he's participating in the

(02:40:07):
dissension and faction more thanas someone, you know what I'm
saying. So but back to to the person of
peace thing. That's how I felt with Bill.
Bill, Bill and I were at odds then we were friendly and then
we were at odds again. Bill, Bill and I have been back
and forth, back and forth and itI think it's been since.

(02:40:30):
Why does? It happen for.
You seemed pretty laid back until why?
Why does it go back and forth? Oh well, it did because.
Of it was because of people thathe would hang out with and so I,
I try it goes back that's why I brought him up about the person
of peace. So he was a person of peace with
someone who I won't bring up, but people know who I one of the
people that I was exposing, you know, like 2010, 1112, whatever,

(02:40:55):
and even beyond that. And he was friendly with that
person and I kept rationalizing to go, you know?
If that person's a. Person of peace for him, Maybe
Bill. Will be able to.
Share stuff with him that will bring him closer to God.
And that actually has been occurred as far as I'm

(02:41:18):
concerned. And that particular individual,
I'm actually mostly a person of peace with that person right now
too, which is good. So that one worked out OK.
It's just we would if I would upset the person that he was a
person at peace with or the the person that he was a person at
peace with upset me, then we hadwe were put into factions and

(02:41:42):
dissensions. It's the way of the world,
right? It's when we start relying on
the flesh and stuff and Christian.
And that's the perfect, I think clothes for us.
It's the reminder. YouTube is a great reflection
for us, especially for people that are worried about their
works and they think that their salvation's dependent on it.
We we fail so often hear publicly and that it should be

(02:42:06):
very clear to us that there's there's none righteous.
No, not one, no matter how hard we try.
But thanks be to Jesus, who is the gate, who paves a way for us
the narrow way him. Being the way the.
Truth and the life He's given usa Rd. to eternal life with Him

(02:42:27):
and the Father and the Spirit. So on that note, I think.
That's a good way for us to close Brett and I.
I wish you God's blessings and Ithank you for the opportunity.
To talk, well, every Friday. At 7:00 PM Central, I'm going to
try to run a show and I'll try to make sure that, you know,
people don't pile up on each other.

(02:42:47):
I always try to keep things right, but I got to be honest,
the whole referee of the WWE, asmuch as I enjoy the show, I
don't want to be in the middle of the match.
Well, that's why people say thatI'm.
A censor. But I and I am, I guess.
I block. I block a ton of people.
Oh, I'm blocked. Too.
Because I see something really, really annoying.
Maybe one of these days you could help me on a peacekeeper

(02:43:11):
scenario with a, a specific person, though, that I do not
want to have an issue with, but for some reason I can't
articulate it in a way where it calms them down.
Yeah, I, I. Just.
I know, I think I know what you're talking about and I
sometimes it's better If you can't be a personal piece there,
then don't It's. I love that particular person.

(02:43:34):
If you if you're talking to the right person about the right
person, I think that we are. There's just hot buttons that
everyone knows if you've been inthis community long enough not
to push and people push it. And I would just.
Tell you. You know the line.
In. Scripture is so important that

(02:43:57):
if at all possible, live in peace with all people.
And, and that key component of that line in Scripture is as far
as it depends on you. Once we know the buttons that we
can push on somebody, let's not do it, you know.
And that being said, I'm, I'm a good creature of that.
I'm not a good doer. Well, that's the problem.

(02:44:17):
I haven't initiated any kind of issue with this person, but what
happens is I'll be in a room somewhere either over at back
bowls or hanging out with TTR, and he'll just show up and say,
you know, you remember this from10 years ago.
And yeah, well, I would say, well, it's something.
That was rehashed recently, so this doesn't have to.

(02:44:39):
Are we live right now or are we?Yeah, we're still alive.
Oh, OK, then we we could. Talk about this offline.
I didn't know it was live. All right, well.
If you want like, yeah, I mean. I, I can tell you, I mean, I, I
don't think it's so out of turn to say it, but no, it's better
that we do it offline if we're Ican end it and then.
If you stay in the room, I'll yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(02:45:01):
All right, let me go ahead and play.
The outro for people.