Blazing Anxiety: Celebrating Mel Brooks' "Blazing Saddles"(1974) and "High Anxiety"(1977)

Episode Transcript
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Brad Shreve (00:00):
Tony, before we get started, I got to tell you it's
kind of embarrassing Well, it'sa little personal about what I
did while we were on hiatus.

Tony Maietta (00:09):
Okay, you want to share that, all right.

Yeah, you know things have been really
difficult, stressful.
I've been depressed and full ofanxiety, so I had to check
myself into the PsychoneuroticInstitute for the very, very
nervous.

Were you suffering from high anxiety, which is
actually a medical term?
It's become a medical term forsevere anxiety, high anxiety.

I know, when I was trying to find the movie
information on the movie, I kepthaving to put movie after it
because I kept getting all thesemedical websites.
I'm like what the hell?

That's so funny.
The Institute is really very,very nervous.

Good to see you again.

Good to see you again.
We're back, season two.
Listen, we're glad you're herewith us.
We're glad you're here too.
Thank you for coming back andjoining us for season two of
Going Hollywood.
You know, that didn't seem likea long hiatus Didn't feel long,
I mean and nothing happened atall.
You know, nothing much happenedat all the first few months of

(01:10):
2025.
Let me tell you, the worldisn't ending.
It just feels like it.
We are here, we are back.
We ain't going anywhere.
I feel that in so many levels,but it is.
It's good to be back, it's goodto see you, brad.
I'm very excited about ourseason premiere of and we hinted
a little bit about it.
We talked, we've been talkingabout it and we decided, yes, it

(01:32):
was going to be.
The unofficial title I thinkwe're calling it is the Battle
of the Brooks, but it's not abattle, because we both love
both of these movies.
You love one more than I do andI love one more than you do,
which is great.
But yes, indeed, this is ourseason premiere Mel Brooks.

(01:54):
We're celebrating Mel Brooksand we are talking about what's
the first one we're talkingabout, brad.

It's a movie I've seen once or twice.
Oh, blazing Saddles, that'swhat it is.

He wore a blazing saddle.
Okay, I'm sing, I'm not gonnasing.
Uh and not versus, but and oneof my favorite movies high
anxiety high anxiety there yougo.
Both have theme songs, bothwritten by mel brooks.
Mel brooks sings the theme songfor high anxiety.

(02:21):
He doesn't sing the theme songfor blazing saddle and they're
both really good.
Oh, he's a great songwriter.
He won you know the producers,he himself won three Tonys that
night for the producers.
When we did our top fiveepisodes last year, we dipped
into both of these films alittle bit, because High Anxiety
was on mine and Blazing Saddleswas one of yours, and that's

(02:42):
when I said maybe someday we'lltalk about both of them together
and that's what we're doing.

Absolutely.

That's what we're doing.
So, but before we start, can wejust talk a little bit about
Mel Brooks?
Sure, I just want to saysomething about Mel Brooks.
He's 98 years old Okay, he willbe 99 on June 28th and I had

(03:09):
the fortune, the good fortune,to see Mel at the Peabody Awards
last year, where he got anhonorary award, and he is just
as funny and sharp and MelBrooksian as ever, and he's just
as adorable too.
I think he's so, he's soadorable and I just I mean, what
a career, what an incredible.
An EGOT winner.
Okay, we know what an EGOT is.
Right, he's one of 2,110 yearsof being EGOT.
An EGOT is, for people whodon't know, an Emmy Award, a

(03:31):
Grammy Award, an Academy Award,oscar or a Tony and a Tony Award
.
He's won all of them multipletimes in some of them.

No surprise.
And on top of all that, youjust can't help but love him.
When you watch him interviewed,you're like, okay, this is
definitely the guy that madethese movies.

Yeah, he's such a sweetheart and he was married to
the incredible Anne Bancroft.
What a pair.
You know it's funny becausewhen you first hear that, I
think most people's firstreaction that Anne Bancroft and
Mel Brooks are together.
But then when you get to knowAnne Bancroft and you get to see

(04:11):
what a nut job she was in thebest way, a funny, sharp,
brilliant woman, then you get it.
You get because she loved thehumor.
They had very similar humor.
And Mel Brooks also has a veryserious side.
You know, after the success ofthese early films in the 70s, he
created Brooks Films and BrooksFilms made okay, let's just

(04:35):
talk about this for a minute.
Brooks Films created theElephant man, francis the Fly.
So he made Brooks Films becausehe thought people would
immediately think, oh, a MelBrooks.
Mel Brooks produces this and itmust be a comedy and he really
wanted to do serious films.
So these are both incrediblyaccomplished people.
Mel still going strong at 98.

(04:55):
God love him.
I hope he makes it to 100because he is just a true gem.

Yes, he is.
And do you know about Mel's son?
This is something I learnedjust recently.

Max Brooks.

World War Z is a fun movie Not the best movie in
the world, but I like to watchit because it's a lot of fun.
I like disaster films and endof the world films I don't know
why, especially if I'm feelingsad, but the book which I have
not read has had glowing reviewsfrom fans.
So World War Z, the novel, waswritten by Max Brooks, who is

(05:26):
their son.
Yeah, exactly, Talk aboutdifferent.

Well, yeah, but he , you know, I guess his mother,
mel, said that Anne always knewhe was a writer.
He was dyslexic when he wasgrowing up and she gave up her
career for a while to help himdeal with the dyslexia and to
educate him and educate histeachers and he became a New
York Times bestselling author.
So I mean pretty good gene poolto come from.

(05:51):
First of all, you come fromAnne Bancroft and Mel Brooks.
Yeah, it's pretty extraordinary.
He was in.
He had a small bit part intheir movie To Be or Not To Be.
Yeah, they did it together, buthe decided he was not an actor,
he was definitely a writer.
And that was the only film theydid together, isn't it well?

she had a cameo in silent movie.
Okay, yes, yes, and when you?

see them in to be or not to be.
You totally get it.
You totally get why thesepeople are together, because
they are at the same level ofinsanity, of crazy.
And bancroft could also justturn around and do play a nun in
agnes of god.
Or do you know one of myfavorite movies, garbo talks.
She was just an incredibleactress and I mean, but you
really get.
She, one of Brooks's films, wasone of also another movie that I

(06:32):
love called Fatso, that Annewrote and directed, oh, dom
DeLuise.
It was one of Brooks films,first films, and I would love to
talk about Fatso sometime.
If we ever just have, let'sjust do one real quick, because
it's not, you know, it doesn'thave quite the heft of the
Elephant man or Francis, butit's a really fun movie.

(06:55):
And it's a movie I have a softspot for because it was one that
some of my dear friends and Ijust would laugh and laugh and
laugh about.
But we're not talking aboutFatso.
We're going to start off withBlazing Saddles from 1974.
And, brad, since this is one ofyour top movies, I think you
should start us off.
I'll give you some background,but I want you to start it off.

(07:16):
Why do you love this movie somuch.

As I said in our top five films that we did, said
in our top five films that wedid, it is non-stop funny.
There are some bomb jokes inthere, but mel has them coming
at you so fast.
Right, you miss them, becausethe next one is hysterical it's
timeless, which I'm gonna.
When we get to high anxiety.
High anxiety is not timeless, Ilearned that recently.

(07:40):
But uh, blazing saddles istotally timeless.
It does make people squirm.
I've got.
Have I talked about reactionvideos on youtube?
you said you were watchingsomething yeah, I've totally
become addicted to them.
I thought they were thestupidest thing on earth.
Well, I watched the ones wherethey watch blazing saddles and
they are.
So these younger kids are so,so uncomfortable with the

(08:02):
language and the the whole thingthat I think we got it back
then.
It still made peopleuncomfortable, but we got it.
In fact, burt Gilliam whoplayed I can't think of his name
, he was the sidekick to SlimPickens.

Yes.

Okay, cleveland Little had to pull him aside and
say it's okay to say the N word.
Call me that, just let me haveit.
That's this film, right.

No.

But he was so uncomfortable he didn't want to
do it.

Well, I think we've come so far that we've
also drifted back.
It's kind of interesting tothink that things could happen
in 1974 in this film.
I think All in the Family is aperfect example of that.
I don't know that All in theFamily would fly on TV today,
maybe on HBO or Netflix orsomething like that, but I don't
think on network TV, and it'sjust.

(08:52):
It's shocking to us.
I'm shocked when I watchBlazing Saddles again, in
opposed to the F bomb, which Ilove and I'll say continually

(09:13):
the rest of my life, I have noproblem saying fuck, but the F
word, but you have to look at it.
It's challenging because youhave to look at it as what was
he trying to do?
And we said this in our topfive episode he was not only
taking a stab at racism, he wastaking a bayonet to racism, and
that's how we had to do it.
It wouldn't have workedotherwise.

(09:34):
No, it wouldn't have worked, itwouldn't have worked.

In fact it went on network television.
I don't know if you ever sawthe network version.

I've seen scenes from it.

Oh my God.
Well, why would you have that?
On network television?
They cut out everything.
All the language was cut out.
I think you were going tomention the farting scene.

Yeah, the campfire scene.
Yeah, they took out the sound.

Have you seen it?

Yes.
These guys are just standing upand down with no sound.
It's like weird choreography.
It's like, why are they gettingup there?
There's no sound.
It's hysterical that they didthat.
It's hysterical that they didthat.
Why bother showing it?
If you're going to, you'regoing to take the teeth out of
it.
It's just, it is what it is.
I mean, I really reallyappreciate it, obviously.

(10:17):
Um, sometimes for those reasons, I think that's why I prefer
high anxiety.
I feel like high anxiety isjust a little kinder and gentler
even though there's some realpotty humor in high anxiety.
And even though there's some,it's just, it's a kinder and
gentler Mel Brooks, and maybethat's why I appreciate it more.
But you can't deny, first ofall, blazing Saddles was a

(10:44):
tremendous success.
Tremendous success.
I know we'll probably go overthe stats, but didn't it make
something like $90 million on abudget of $2 or $3 million?

About $2.5 million, and the number I kept seeing
over and over again was $119million.

Well, that sounds about right.
I know it was damn close to$100 million.

Now I saw on some sites that it was the
highest-growing film of 1974.
Others I saw that it was atowering Inferno.
I think you told me before itwas towering Inferno.

I believe it's towering Inferno.
Yeah, but they must've beenclose but it made 119, $119
million on a budget of 2 million.
$2 million it costs to makethis and it made 119 million.
So I mean, how do you?
You can't argue with that kindof success.
And this is what's importantabout it.

(11:30):
And just a little bit of thebackstory before we talk about
the movie, cause you know that'swhat I do.
Mel Brooks was at the point inhis career as, as we, as we know
, mel Brooks started working forSid Caesar, your show of shows,
caesar's hour.
He was with that incrediblegroup, incredible group of
writers Neil Simon, danny Simon,later Woody Allen, larry
Galbart I mean, these peoplewere all in one room writing
comedy.

It's amazing.

It's incredible and there have been.
You know, my favorite yearanother Brooks film is kind of
based on that experience.
Laughter on the 23rd Floor wasNeil Simon's take on that
experience.
So it's kind of a mythic thing.
Mel then later created withBuck Henry.
He created Get Smart, which isa wonderful series.
The 2,000-year-old man, I think,was probably his first big

(12:13):
splash as a performer, which hedid with Carl Reiner.
But by the time it came toBlazing Saddles he had done two
films.
He'd done the Producers andhe'd done the Twelve Chairs, and
Mel said both of which he madeabout $25,000 from they were
critical successes.
He won an Oscar for theProducers.
So he said I was at a point inmy career where I was critically

(12:35):
acclaimed but I had no moneyand this was a problem.
He said so.
He was walking down 57th Streetin New York and it had just
rained.
He was staring down into thegutter at the water, going
through the gutter and he heardsomeone say hey, mel, and he
turned around and it was hisagent.

(12:56):
His agent was David Bigelman.
Someday we'll talk about DavidBigelman and Freddie Fields
because they were two realHollywood characters.
They had this agency calledCreative Management Associates.
Cma was their agency and theyrepresented all the big ones.
They represented Judy first,and Judy used to call them
Leopold and Loeb, so it givesyou an idea about Biegelman and
Fields.
Anyway he said, mel, what'sgoing on?
And I just left you a message.

(13:17):
I have a movie.
Come back to my office let'stalk.
I think I have a movie for you.
So they went back toBiegelman's office and he said I
have a script that I thinkyou'd be really, really good for
.
It's called Tex-X.
It's by a writer named AndrewBergman.
And Mel said you know what,david?
I only work on my own projects.
I only write indirect things Icreate.

(13:39):
And Biegelman said I think Ican get you $100,000.
And Mel said let me rephrasethat I usually only work on
things I write and create.
So anyway, mel read Tex-X.
He loved it.
It was.
What was extraordinary aboutTex-X is it was a spoof and it

(14:07):
was set in the West in 1874,with dialogue from 1974.
And I think that's pretty muchwhat you have to say about the
parameters, about BlazingSaddles.
It's an anachronistic film.
It's full of anachronismsbecause the attitude, the
dialogue, the stances are all1974, taking place in 1874.

And what's funny to me is I always wondered why it
was originally called Tex-ExCause I'm like where did they
get that out of the blue?
For some strange reason it wasa play on Malcolm X.
I didn't know that.
I just learned that recently.
I've always wondered about it.
I'm glad they didn't go withBlack Bart, which was the next
name they were going to use,though they did use it for the
TV movie, though they did use itfor the TV movie, which we can

(14:43):
touch on.
But oh my God yeah, that's whatI've heard.
It's available on YouTube y'all.
If you want to be bored, gowatch Black Bart, which is a
take on Blazing Saddles.
It was actually the pilot to aseries that didn't happen
starring Louis Gossett Jr asBart.

Well, there you go .
Well, that's amazing.
Well, you know, black Bart issuch a legendary Western name,
amazing.
Well you know, Black Bart issuch a legendary.

Western name Exactly, but yeah, I mean.

It was too on the nose to me it was.
It was probably.
Yeah, I don't think that worked.
So Mel decided to do it.
Mel decided he was going towrite it, but he wanted to get.
He wanted to recreate thewriter's room that he as I said
just a little bit ago, he isexperienced as a young writer in
New York working for Sid Caesar.
He wanted to have a group of.
He didn't want to write it byhimself.
Obviously he was going to bringback Andrew Bergman.

(15:30):
It was Andrew Bergman's story.
So he had Andrew Bergman and hewanted to surround himself with
writers that thought the way hedid and he looked First person
he looked to and I know you knowthis, brad but the first person
he looked to to join hiswriting team was who was it?

Richard Pryor.

Richard Pryor Isn't that amazing.
I love that.

It is amazing.
He also wanted Richard forBlack Bart, and I'm so glad that
didn't happen.

Well, yeah, yeah.

Because Richard's over the top, I think he's, he's
a ham and I don't think thatwould have worked.

Cleveland Little, not straight, but you know he
was a lot more subtle than priorwould have been.
Well, yeah, in my opinion yeah,I'm also there was no way
warner brothers was gonna allowprior to do it.
Prior's reputation, priorhadn't made a film yet.
So I mean, this was beforesilver streak, this was before
you know the stir crazy butalready known for his substance
abuse yeah, he had a really badreputation still, um, but he was
an extraordinary writer, he wasan extraordinary performer.

(16:26):
So Mel wanted Richard Pryor.
He had two other friends aformer lawyer, norman Steinberg,
and Norman's friend, a formerdentist, alan Younger.
I love how these lawyers anddentists really want to be
comedy writers.
I'm a lawyer, I'm a dentist.
I really want to be a comedywriter.
And Mel said that he hung asign on the wall that said first

(16:47):
we laugh.
That was his guiding principlethat they laugh first.
If they laughed, they knew itwas going to be something that
was workable and they beganworking on this parody of the
West and that's how it allstarted.

And you know.
You asked me why I thought thiswas such a great film.
Not only is it hystericallyfunny though I hate the term
pushing the envelope, it's theonly one that comes to my head.
Not only did Mel push theenvelope, he is, I think, the
only person that could havegotten away with this film.

Oh, I think so.

That just shows his brides.

Yeah, I think so.
Well, I mean you knowspringtime for Hitler in the
producers.
I mean this was not newterritory to Mel.
Mel believes the only way youknow Mel always said famously,
the only way, how do you getrevenge on Hitler, you make any
comedy writers out there, payattention because this is from
Mel Brooks.
He said comedy has to have anengine to drive it.

(17:40):
You just can't meat behindLazing Saddles the structure,
the engine that drives the story.
So we accept this insanitybecause he's skewing racial
prejudice, a loving satiric lookat Westerns and the Western
genre.

Yeah, back to these reaction videos.
I watch young adults watchingAll in the Family, but they're
watching clips of Archie andthey're like this is so
offensive, how do you get awaywith it?
And then in the comments yousee older adults saying you
can't take these out of context.
You have to watch the wholeepisode.
Yeah, exactly, and it's thesame way with Blazing Saddles.
If you don't watch the wholeepisode, you're going to think
it's a racist, trashy movie.

You have to watch the whole thing.

Yes.

You do, you really do, and you know what's also
interesting and we said thisbefore in our top five, and this
is the same thing about this istrue of Young Frankenstein,
this is true of High Anxiety,this is true of Blazing Saddles,
and it was designed this way.
You don't have to knowHitchcock.
As I told you, I had not seen aHitchcock, or maybe I'd seen

(19:14):
one.
I obviously had probably seenPsycho before I saw High Anxiety
and I loved it because theystand on their own, as their own
creation.
That being said, there's somewonderful shout-outs in Blazing
Saddles.
I mean, you know the name'sknown black bart is a western
name, slim pickens, who was awestern character actor slim
pickens was so perfect, soperfect.

There's a rumor that I want to know if this is
true.
I've seen this, I think.
Even the saturday evening postsaid, and I'm having a hard time
believing it's true whatthey're saying is that to
prepare for this movie, slimPickens would sleep outside
hugging his Winchester rifle.
To get in Taggart's mind.
I'm like this guy playedWesterns.

Oh my God.

Why would he?
That doesn't even make sense.
He was a former rodeo rider.

Yes, and he was a legendary film actor from the
40s.
I mean Santa Fe Passage, theSheep man Tonka.
No, he you know.

That's an urban legend.
I'm not buying.

No, it's not at all.
But here's something.
And for people who don't really, who are trying to play Slim
Pickens, maybe this will jogyour memory.
In addition to playing inBlazing Saddles, probably his
most famous role is as MajorKing Kong in Dr Strangelove.
He's the one who rides the bomb.
So that's who Slim Pickens is.
If you weren't aware who SlimPickens was, yeah, love or hate

(20:32):
Dr Strangelove.

Him flying down on that nuclear missile, yelling
yee-haw is so iconic it's justamazing.

But he's not the main character in this.
As we were saying, the maincharacter's name is Black Bart,
played by the incrediblyhandsome Cleveland Little.
I mean wow.

And when he's in his Gucci cowboy suit.

Oh, what a handsome, handsome man.

But do you?

know we said Richard Pryor, Mel wanted
Richard Pryor.
But do you know who theoriginal original choice was
back when it was still calledTex-X?
No, I don't.
They originally wanted.
They wanted James Earl Jones ohmy gosh, oh wow that would have
had even more gravitas.

(21:16):
I don't know.
I have the utmost respect forJames Earl Jones, but I don't
know that he could have.
Yeah, I don't know that itnecessarily would have worked.

You know it's so hard sitting back after the fact
to say I can't imagine them inthe role.
It just may it would have beena different movie, but maybe
it's just as good.
So you never can say.

What's great about Cleveland Little is he's got
that humor.
He's got that look on his faceLike I don't know this is all
pretend folks.
This is all just a big lark,and that's what's so wonderful
about his performances hedoesn't take it seriously, so
therefore we don't take itseriously.

It's a lot like what's Up Doc.
It's a cartoon.

Yes, exactly.

There's so much, even the scene where he blows up
Mongo.
You see them coming in andgoing out of that saloon and I'm
like the first time I saw it Ithought that's really cheesy.
You see the shadow on thebackdrop as they leave.
Come and go.
You know the town is in thebackdrop as they're leaving.
Yeah, and then later I thoughtno, that's, that's the way old
westerns were.

So yeah, it should be there no, it is, it's very,
it's very cartoony and he is, aswe've said a million times, he
is us, he's the one we identifywith.
Yes, because he's the sanestone.
So he's surrounded by all thesecrazies in this cartoon,
because it's a spoof, same as afarce, same family.
You know, it's concerned, it'sin its own reality, but you have
that one person to identifywith.

(22:35):
That represents the audiencethat is around all these.
So the other kooks around him,like lily von stupp, like
headley lamar, like thebrilliant harvey c, oh, my God,
hedley, hedley, do you know?
Here's a little trivia question.
Well, it's not a triviaquestion, but here's something.
I wonder if you knew this.
Do you know that the real HedyLamar, hedy Lamar, who was a

(22:56):
bombshell, literally 40s actresswe can talk about, hedy Lamar,
sued Mel Brooks?

For $10 million, I think.

Yes, yes, isn't that funny.

And that is why he wrote in, because he says to
Harvey Korman's character hecalls him Hedy and Korman goes
it's Hedley and he says this is1874.
You'll be able to sue her.

Yes, yes.

He wrote that in because of that lawsuit.

Hedy Lamarr was a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous
woman.
Yeah, there's a whole storyabout Hedy Lamarr and she
basically created wirelesscommunications, but that's
another podcast.
That's another.
Or go watch one of mydocumentaries.
I have a documentary on it,Anyway.
So we've got Harvey Kormanplaying Hedy Lamarr.
Who exactly is Hedy?

(23:45):
Well, let's do this.
I'm going to let you do thisbecause this is your baby.
Tell us a little bit about thepeople of Rockridge, the town
that we are visiting in thisWestern.
Who are we talking about here?

territory.
It's a territory, right.
It's not a state yet, right?
Yeah?
So anyway, hedley Lamar is thebasically the governor's
right-hand man.
The governor is a totalnincompoop, mentally challenged
Mel Brooks.
William J Petelmane is his nameand I learned where that name
came from go ahead do you knowwhere it came from?

yeah, but you tell us.

There was a flatulent artist who would get
on stage and basically blowthings out and do things with
farts, and his stage name was LePetomane.
His real name was Joseph Pujol.
He was from the 1800s.

Mel is obsessed with flatulence in this film,
obviously.

It's one of the funniest, funniest things.

It's one of the funniest, funniest things.
It's one of the funniest things.

So Headley is a crooked individual and you know
as much as I've loved this filmit really was this last time
that I watched it, this pastweek I really was like damn,
harvey nailed it.
He just hit the home run withthis role.

He is so brilliant .
He really is.
Mel considered him the mostbrilliant sketch comedian ever
and I got to tell you watchingthis and watching High Anxiety
again, and, as we all know, fromhis work on the Carol Burnett
Show, which is how Mel firstcame to his attention, he came
to Mel's attention.
He is.
I agree, harvey Korman's levelof commitment to the most

(25:23):
ridiculous circumstances isunparalleled and it's what made
him.
Carol Burnett also said thatshe said he was the best.
He was the best sketch comedianshe'd ever known.
And Mel Buxigliet and heclearly shows it in this film
because he's so invested, hebelieves in every single moment,
in High Anxiety too.
I want to talk about him inHigh Anxiety.

(25:44):
There's one specific moment inhigh anxiety where he's so it's
just great, it's so great, so,so, yes, so Harvey Korman plays
Hedley Lamar, who's thegovernor's assistant.
Slim Pickens plays Taggart, whois Hedley's henchman.
Basically, right, right, wouldyou call.
It would be safe to call himthat.

Yes, he's over.
He's in charge of building thenew railroad and he is Hedley's
henchman.
And then sticking with thevillains.
Slim Pickens sidekick is BertGilliam, who plays Lyle, and I
think he plays great in his roletoo.

He's wonderful.

Yep, those are the villains for the most part In
the town.
Let's start with Cleavon Little.
He is Bart.
He is a man that worked on therailroad with other black men
that were soon, not long afterslavery, as well, as some Asian
folks as well know.
It just was a lot of peopledied building these railroads.

(26:43):
Yes, yeah, so, uh, anyway, hehas an incident with slim
pickens.
He basically hits him in theback of the head with a shovel.
He's due to be hanged.
And harvey korman comes up withthe great idea that he will run
the people of rock ridge out oftown if they give him, if he
gives them, a black sheriff, andhe wants to take over this town
because he wants to put therailroad through there and make

(27:05):
a fortune.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Now Black Bart's sidekick is a drunk former.
What do you call him?
The guy that shot a gun shooter?
Thank you, that was the nameNamed Jim, also known as the
Waco Kid, Not one of my favoriteactors.
I'm probably this is probablyblasphemous I'm not a huge fan
of Gene Wilder, so I didn't hatehim in this role.

(27:31):
I wish somebody else was in it.

Well, you know who was originally supposed to do
it right.

John Wayne, I think .

Well, no, there's a story about that.
Oh no, gig Young, gig Youngyeah, mel Brooks, he actually
was there one day on the jobwhen he was there one day and
was fired because he was drunk,uh, and he couldn't do it mel
brooks ran into john wayne atthe commissary, at warner
brothers, and said and was likehaving palpitations.
He was like mr wayne and he'slike oh, mel brooks, I love the
producers.
And he said I have a scriptwith a part for you.

(27:59):
Would you even consider readingit?
And john was it, of course.
So John Wayne took it home andread it and he said let's meet
here tomorrow at the same timeand I'll talk to you.
And he said, Mel, I love it.
It's this great script.
She says I can't do it.
He said my audience would neveraccept me in a film where a
character says blow it out yourass.
He said but I'll be the firstperson in line to buy a ticket

(28:24):
when it's on.
So yes, absolutely.
So John Wayne didn't do it.
Yes, Originally the Waco kidwas gig young, who was a light
comedic actor.
He's known for desk set oldacquaintance.
But he had just won an Oscar.
For they shoot horses, Don'tthey?
Which?
we're going to be talking aboutcoming up and he kind of stunned
Hollywood with this performance.

(28:45):
But he was also very well knownas a very heavy drinker.
He assured Mel that he was onthe wagon, that he was sober,
that he was going to be fine forthis, and on the first day of
filming the very first scenewhere the Waco kid meets Black
Bart, he couldn't get his linesout.

He put a little of himself too much in that role.

He put a little too much of himself.
He was plastered and then hestarted spewing green vomit.

Oh no.

Yeah, and then he was taken off the set.
So Mel had a real problem.
He's like this was a Friday,mel says he didn't know what to
do and he thought Gene Wilder,so he called Gene Wilder.
Gene Wilder played Leo Bloom inthe Producers and they were
very close friends.
He had just made his film debutin Bonnie and Clyde the same
year as the Producers and hereally did this as a favor to

(29:35):
Brooks, because the Waco kid wasnot supposed to be this young.
He wasn't supposed to be GeneWilder, he was supposed to be an
old alcoholic Kind of like getYoung, just not literally.
The actor wasn't supposed to bean alcoholic, but he agreed to
do it.
He did it as a favor for MelBrooks so he actually flew from
New York to LA and was on theset the following Monday doing

(29:58):
the same scene that Gig Youngwas doing on a Friday, and
that's how Gene Wilder ended up.

That's impressive.
It is impressive.

And what's even more impressive is and how these
things work.
While they were making the film, gene Wilder was working on
something.
He'd be working on somethingwhenever they have a break.
And finally Mel said Gene, whatare you working on?
And Gene said I want to do amovie that's a takeoff on horror
films.
And so they met and that'swhere Young Frankenstein was
born, on the set of BlazingSaddles.

(30:28):
So everything happens for areason.
Gig Young had a very tragic end.
Unfortunately, he killed hisyoung wife and then himself in
1978.
He was a very troubled man andit's very, very sad.
But we got Gene Wilder in therole of the Waco Kid and yeah, I
see what you mean.
I mean he's not exactly right,but I still think he's great.

An older individual in that role.
What, now that you mentionedwould have been made more sense?
Right, absolutely, but it's,it's okay.
I want to wrap up the the othertwo major characters because I
really want to talk about thetownsfolk.

(31:11):
Yes, but you have.
There's one very important onethat we haven't gotten to yet.
Well, there's, there's two.
I'm gonna first say alex karras.
Right, he was an ex-footballplayer, big beefy man who plays
mongo.
To describe mongo is uh, whenmongo gets into town, uh, bart
puts on his uh gun belt and andthe Waco kid says oh, don't
shoot him, you'll just make himmad.
So he was a villain to beginwith.
He later turns a good guy.

(31:32):
And then the last one, somebodywho was I guess she was okay
for this role Madeline Kahn, asthe voluptuous Lily Van Stoop
and probably one of the mostbeautiful singers there ever was
.
Oh, that's the thing aboutMadeline Kahn as the voluptuous
Lily Van Stoop and probably oneof the most beautiful singers
there ever was.

Oh, that's the thing about Madeline.

I mean she was.

Exactly.
Well, here's the thing.
So she's doing so.
Madeline yes, madeline Kahnplays Lily Van Stoop.
She is a takeoff on MarlenaDietrich in Destry Rides Again
and go look it up if you don'tknow what Destry Rides Again?
And go look it up if you don'tknow what Destry Rides Again is.
And she's doing Dietrich.
And the brilliant thing aboutMadeleine Kahn is Madeleine Kahn
was an operatically trainedsinger.

(32:12):
Okay, she could have sung opera.
She wanted to be an operasinger.
It is very difficult to singonly slightly off key.
It's very difficult to singunder the pitch.
Bad actors can sing badly, yeah, but it's not real when people
are really singing and they'rejust slightly off-pitch.
That's what Dietrich would doand that's a very difficult
thing to do.

(32:33):
And because Kahn wasoperatically trained, she could
do it.
And Mel Brooks said he wasblown away by that.
It was also blown away by herDietrich impression.
I mean, she's so funny.
All the W's Bismarck.

It's true.
It's true.
Is Bismarck a hailing?

That's it Exactly.
Is Bismarck a hailing?
She's so funny.
She does this wonderful songcalled I'm Tired, which Mel also
wrote, which is just the mosthysterically funny takeoff on
every song that Dietrich everdid, and you know it's funny
when they was.
There's a couple things, and Iknow you want to talk about the

(33:20):
townspeople, but there is athere with Madeleine Kahn in
Blazing Saddles which I want totalk about later.
Oh, I'm going to hear it.
I'll get to it, remind me.
But when he first, you know,mel said if he couldn't get
Madeleine Kahn to play LilyWunschdupp, he didn't think he
was going to make the film.
He said because he had seen herdo Dietrich each other.

(33:43):
When he first met he said Ineed to see your legs.
And Madeline Kahn was like, oh,this is one of these kind of
auditions, huh.
But, he's like no, no, no, no,because of Dietrich, I just need
to make sure.
And he said and her legs werebeautiful, and they are
beautiful, she's a beautifulwoman.
You know, we talked a littlebit about how she kind of got a

(34:12):
complex from Eunice Burns andhow she always tried to vary her
parts after that to Trixie.
Delight and Paper Moon in thispart, princess Nympho.
In History of the World, partOne, where she's a real sexual
being, a very beautiful woman,high anxiety.
But yeah, khan is brilliant andKhan got an Academy Award
nomination as Best SupportingActor one of the three Oscar
nominations.
This film got To get an Oscarnomination not only for a comedy
but for a parody.
A spoof is a tremendousachievement.

(34:35):
That's how brilliant MadeleineKhan is in this movie.

It's hard for me to decide if she was better in
what's Up, doc, or better inthis, and I think they're equal.
They're two differentcharacters.
It's completely different.
That's the thing.

They're totally different.
That's why she was such agenius.
Every single Mel Brooks filmshe's done.
Every single film she's donePaper Moon, trixie Delight I
think I said that before.
Watch her as Eunice Burns andwatch her as Trixie Delight.
Then watch, watch her as TrixieDelight, then watch her as
Lillie Von Stupp and then watchher as Princess Nympho.
They are three Empress Nympho.
They are three separate or fourseparate characterizations.

(35:18):
And my Lucy story, reallyquickly, is that Madeline was
supposed to play Gooch in themusical version of Mame in the
musical.
She was cast in the musicalfilm of Mame with Lucy and Lucy
was of the mindset because oftelevision.
She had four days to film ashow.
You had to have your charactersdown at the first reading.
You had to know them.
You had to be performance ready.
Madeline is not this way.
Madeline is of the stage.
Madeline needs to create acharacter.
She wanted to create her ownGooch.

(35:38):
So after a couple of weeks Lucysaid to Madeline when are we
going to see your gooch?
And Madeline said you areseeing my gooch and Lucy said
out.
So she fired her.
Madeline Kahn was fired fromMAME and went immediately into
Blazing Saddles and got an Oscarnomination and Lucy always held

(35:58):
that she did that on purposeand I don't know if that's true,
but I tell you she reallydodged a bullet.
Let me tell you right now, Imean of the two huh you know, a
massive musical bomb with Lucyor an Oscar nominated role with
Mel Brooks.
I think I kind of go with MelBrooks.

When are we going to see your gooch?
It sounds rather dirty.
So I just want to run downthrough the town.
People I'm not going to go intoa lot of detail because I'm
just going to name names, great,great character actors, I mean
unbelievable cast, and so youeither know these names or you
don't.
And, tony, you can go into alittle more detail if you want.
We had David Huddleston, liamDunn, who lovely?

(36:39):
And John Hillerman, georgeFirth.
There's Carol Arthur trying tothink of the ones people would
most likely know, robert Collier.
If you saw all these people'sfaces, you know who they were.

Sure Dom DeLuise.

Oh, Dom DeLuise.
Yes, I wasn't thinking of thetown, he's not a townsperson.
But yeah, he was awesome, buthe no, I forgot him.
He's awesome and what'sinteresting about all these
townspeople.

What do they have in common?
All their last names areJohnson.
So you have Howard Johnson, whohas an orange roof on his
outhouse.
You have Olsen Johnson.

One flavor ice cream.

Yes, gabby Johnson , van Johnson, it's funny.
And Mel said you know,johnson's such a great name,
it's just a perfect name to nameall these people johnson and
it's.
It's just so funny when theyhave the meeting where they're
trying to figure out what to doabout everything and they're
saying yes, brother johnson,believe what van johnson said.

(37:40):
I want to listen to brotherhoward, johnson's just so funny,
it's so funny.

Going back to these reaction videos, I was watching
this young couple watching thatfilm and they and the thing
came up about Howard Johnson'sorange, the orange roof on
Howard Johnson's outhouse, andthey looked at each other and
said I think that was it.
There's a joke in theresomewhere.

Well, you know, the school teacher played by
Carol Arthur, who played HarrietJohnson, is actually Dom
DeLuise's wife.

I didn't know that?

Yeah, she's Mrs Dom DeLuise, and Dom DeLuise is
not, you're right, he's not inthe townspeople, he's in when
this movie takes its incrediblyfunny turn, which we'll get to.
Which we'll get to.
But do you want to talk alittle bit about?
What do you want to talk about?
I want to talk about theproduction.
You want to talk about the plota little bit?
Let people know exactly whathappens in this movie.

Well, I can do the plot really quickly.
I think most people haveprobably seen it if they're
listening to our show.
So I'd like you to get a littlemore into the production of it.
But I'll just very quickly saythere's the town of Rock Ridge.
It is where Harvey Corman'scharacter wants to put the
railroad through and the town isin the way.
So he wants to get the peopleto leave the town so that he can

(38:53):
take over the town and make afortune off of putting the
railroad through.
So he gets Black Bart to,convinces the governor to get
Black Bart to be the first blacksheriff, saying that the
governor will be in history,even if he dies in one day.
He'll still be in history andwe'll make him the sheriff
because we want somebody so vileor I don't know what the word

(39:14):
he is that they'll leave indroves.
So Bart shows up and he's notwell received.
In fact, this very lovely oldlady who he walks up to and says
ain't a lovely morning, ma'am?
She says up yours in the N-wordJust like oh, it just catches
you off guard.
And what's even better is later, when he does a good deed and

(39:36):
she comes back and gives him apie.
She goes away and then shecomes back and says of course
you'll have the I don't know, ofcourse you'll have the good
manners not to tell anyone.

I talk to you.

Yes, exactly Something of that nature.

Well, it's just, they're all incredibly
prejudiced and it is difficultwith 20, 25 years at least it is
for me to hear the N-word overand over again.
They don't, you know, it's notquite as much as I remember from
watching this movie when I wasa kid, so I don't think it was

(40:09):
quite as much, but it's stillsaid frequently and it is very
difficult to hear.
In fact and Mel Brooks hadissues with this too.
Now Mel Brooks is writing this,but Mel Brooks had a lot of
issues with how far he waspushing the envelope.
You know he wasn't pushing anenvelope, he was driving it off
the cliff.
And he said that particularlyin the campfire scene with the

(40:32):
flatulence and the N, the N word, uh, probably, I'd like to
think the F word too, becauseMel is a, is a decent, kind
person.
Um, he said that he went to talkto the head of production at
Warner Brothers, john Calley,that we talked a little bit
about during our what's Up Docepisode.
He was the head of productionat Warner Brothers at this time

(40:54):
and he said something to Melwhich stuck with Mel.
He said he remembered from thenon, whenever he questioned
anything, he said to Mel Mel, ifyou're going to step up to the
bell, ring it, and Mel took thatadvice and ran with it.
He's like you're right, if I'mgoing to do this, I'm going to
do that.
So that's why it works, becausehe goes for it.

(41:15):
He doesn't pull back, he goesfor it, and it's the driving
force behind this comedyabsolutely.

And then Slim Pickens becomes the head of the
Marauders that go into RockRidge and they're stampeding
townsfolk and raping cattle.
They have words right out ofthe movie.
I love the song.
There Was a Peaceful TownCalled Rock Ridge.
Yes that's great.
Yeah, are we to stay up or upand quit?

(41:43):
There's no avoiding thisdecision.
Our town is turning into shit.
That's the final lines in themovie.
And then Bart saves the day bysaving the townsfolk and saving
the town.
So that's how the movie ends.
And then he rides off with theWaco kid into the sunset, and
then they ride on their horsesand then they get in their
limousine and drive away.

Yes.
Well, here's what I love aboutthis movie and here, to me this
is a saving grace is just at thepoint where you think, okay,
how is this going to end?
Mel brooks doesn't just breakthe fourth wall, he blows it
apart, because in the last scene, as they're having the big
fight, the camera pulls back,and pulls back, and pulls back

(42:23):
and suddenly you're not in RockRidge, you're on the Warner
Brothers lot and you see thishuge soundstage and you're like,
oh wait, a minute, I'm inBurbank, california.
And the camera moves into thesoundstage to a musical being
directed by.
It's a Busby Berkeley typemusical being directed by Buddy
Bizarre, who is Dom DeLuise,based on Busby Berkeley.

(42:46):
And suddenly the townspeoplewho've been fighting crash into
the soundstage and startfighting with each other, start
fighting with the dancers in themusical number.

The rough and tumble town folk butted in on
the.
The dancers were a large castof a, let's say, effeminate men
that dom deluise frequently usesthe f word on yes and so then,
to have them and then thecowboys burst in, is just
perfect and they start fighting.

But what's funny is what happens in one of them.
They start fighting and they gobehind this scrim, behind this
flat, and they're behind theflat and they come around the
other side of the flat andthey've got their arms around
each other and they're sayinglet's go over to my place.
The fourth wall is gone.
And then it just goes toinsanity.
From there it's, it goes to apie fight in the commissary.
When, when, uh, hedley Lamarcomes out of the restroom the

(43:39):
men's room and sees, sees thispie fight going on, ducks back
in again, puts shaving cream onhis face and walks out again.
So it looks like he's been hitwith a pie, so he doesn't get
hit.
Walks out of the studio gatesonto Alameda Street in Burbank,
hails a car and says drive meoff this picture.

Yes, I got to say one thing about the commissary.
Not only was it total chaoswith all these different
characters throwing pies at eachother, Mel had to put the
cherry on the pie by.
In the background, you haveHitler doing his loot in Fast X.
He's got to have a Hitler inthere.
I thought that was so funny.

(44:18):
I love that.

Oh my God.
So Hedley Lamar is driven offthis movie.
But he's not.
He's driven to Grauman'sChinese Theater where Blazing
Saddles is playing.
It's so meta.
Before meta even existed, itwas meta.
He gets his popcorn, harveyKorman.
He gets his popcorn.
He goes down and he's watchingthe film Blazing Saddles on the

(44:40):
screen.
I know what I'm going to sayyeah, that's right, that's right
.
And then Black Bart CleavonLittle comes in Grandma's
Chinese Theater on a horse andruns him to the forecourt.
And that's where Hedley Lamarmeets his end.
He is shot and he falls on thefootprints of Douglas Fairbanks.
And his last dying words are helooks at Douglas Fairbanks'

(45:05):
footprints and he goes how didhe do those stunts with such
little feet?

Nice.

Oh, and that's the end of Hedley Lamar, hedley
Lamar.

Hedley Lamar.
That's the end of Hedley.

Yeah.

And then Cleavon Little and Gene Walder as the
Waco Kid.
They go into the movie theaterwith their popcorn and basically
say let's watch the end of themovie.
And suddenly we're back in RockRidge.

And, as Brad said, they ride off in the sunset
together and then get off theirhorses and get in their limo and
are driven away and that's it'sjust.
I love that twist at the end.
I think to me that's what,that's what I, what I really
love about this movie.
Like I said, I have issues withthe language.

(46:07):
I do, but that ending is sopriceless and so unexpected and
never done before.
I mean, this is Mel Brooks'genius you know that this ends
so ridiculously.
And the first screening ofBlazing Saddles in Los Angeles,
he had real cattle in the lobbyand he said after the first
screening, one of the studioexecutives came up to him and
said Mel, come with me and takenotes.
And he and John Calley and Melwent into an office and he said
you got to cut this, you got tocut the campfire scene, cut the
scene of punching the horse, cutthe N-word, cut Lily's song.

(46:28):
And Mel said whenever a studioexecutive tells you to cut
things, just agree, Say yes, doit.
Yes, oh yes, absolutely.
That's gone, gone, gone.
Always agree and then don't doit, Because once the film starts
to make money, you don't hearfrom anybody.
That's exactly what happened.
It made such a huge amount ofmoney, no problem I want to ask

(46:49):
about another legend.

That's true.
First of all, I want to know.
Second of all, I have somethingI've got to say about this
movie.
But before I do that, I'd heardthat when mel showed it to this
warner brotherss, theybasically sat there and didn't
laugh at all.
And we're not happy with thisfilm.
Yeah, so Mel went out and gotsome of the blue collar workers

(47:11):
from the lot and had theexecutives watch them laugh
hysterically.

That's it.
I mean the studio executiveswe've said this before.
They don't know what the hellthey're doing.
They just don't and he'sabsolutely right Always agree
with them and then don't do it.
And John Kelly said, when theywere done with the meeting John
Mel Brooks took, he said he tookthe notes crumpled up and threw
it in the waste paper basket.
And John Kelly said well filed,but there was one cut.

(47:39):
There were some other cuts, butthere was one cut.
And I want to know if you knewabout this cut, brad it's in the
it's true, it's true scene it'strue.
It's true scene.
Yeah, do you want to tell thatstory, or should I?

you can tell it okay.

so lily von stupp is hired by hedley lamar to
seduce black bart and destroyhim.
But lily von stupp, after she'mTired, gets one look at Cleavon
Little and she's like I'm notdestroying this guy.
So it's very fascinating.
The lights go out and they'rein the dark and Lily says to him

(48:14):
she says is it true about howyou people are gifted?
And then there's a beat and abeat and you hear and this is
all in black, it's true.

Well, you hear a very loud zipper first.

You hear a loud zipper right.
And then you hear her say oh,it's true, it's true, and the
scene's over.
Well, in the original shot, inthe original filming of it, she
says it's true, it's true.
And then Cleavon Little'scharacter said you're sucking on

(48:48):
my arm.

Hysterical, but I'm glad they cut it.
I think it's better the way itends.

Good cut, good cut .

It was a good cut.
Now the reason I said I havesomething to say before we move
on.
Everybody remembers the fartscene around the campfire the
cowboys eating the beans,drinking the coffee and farting,
and people think that's thefunniest scene.
There is a different scene thatmakes me laugh so hard every
time because it is right out ofa Warner Brothers cartoon.

(49:13):
I could see Bugs Bunny doing it, and that is the toll booth.

Yes, yes, yes.

The marauders are running, riding across the
desert to get to the town and toransack the town and to slow
them down, bart builds a tollbooth.
You can easily go around thetoll booth, of course, but he
builds a toll booth.
And they get to the toll boothand Slim Pickens turns around

(49:43):
and says my favorite line of themovie somebody has to go back
and get a shitload of dimes.

It doesn't occur to them to just go around this
stand-alone toll booth.
They've got to go back and getdimes and Sam Pickens is so
Goddamn dimes.
It's so funny because it's sooutrageous and this is why it's
funny, because they are soinvested in the insanity,
they're so believable.
Yes, it's their reality andthat's what makes this movie

(50:13):
work.
That's what makes it so damnedfunny, so funny.
And, yeah, this movie was atremendous, tremendous success.
As I said, three Oscarnominations best supporting
actress, best film editing and,last but not least, the song
Blazing Saddles, that wonderfulsong that it's a great song.

(50:34):
It is a great song, it's afabulous song.
And what I want to say aboutthe song is that Mel wrote it,
because Mel was a very giftedwriter.
I mean, just listen to theproducers.
He wrote the musical, theProducers.
The song Blazing Saddles waswritten by Mel and John Morris
and it was sung by Frankie Lane,who was a legendary singer of

(50:55):
Western themes.
He did Rawhide, the theme fromRawhide.
And Mel said wouldn't it begreat if we could get a singer
like Frankie Lane?
And there you go.

So they got Frankie Lane, yeah.
Last thing I want to add is youare so uncomfortable with this
film, and I am not the least bituncomfortable, and I think part
of the reason is my husband,maurice, is.
No way am I implying that hespeaks for black people all
across America, but it does helpthat he, my husband, is a black
man and he loves this film, soyeah and I don't.

I get it.
I get it.
It's not my, as I said, I havea said I prefer a kinder and
gentler, mel Brooks, and that'swhy we're going to talk about
our second movie.
But I do appreciate this filmand I don't deny it that it's
hysterically funny and theperformances are outrageous.
All right, that was BlazingSaddles, now I guess we're on to

(51:52):
High Anxiety.

High.

Anxiety what?

do you want to say about?

High Anxiety before I start Brad.

High Anxiety.
I loved this film when it firstcame out.
It is brilliant take on AlfredHitchcock films.
Right, there are somereferences that are very subtle
and some references that are soin your face, and this is where
I said I don't think it'stimeless.

(52:20):
You said you didn't knowanything about Hitchcock when
you watched it.
I sat there and watched it theother day and I thought I don't
think this would be funny if youdidn't know Hitchcock.
Oh God, because some of thedidn't know Hitchcock, because
some of the jokes are soHitchcockian.

But think about the characters for a minute.
Oh, the characters are great.
That's what makes it funny.
Nurse Diesel, cloris Leachman,harvey Korman again is Dr
Montague.
I mean, the characters are sofunny, the situations are funny
and I really do believe that.
I don't think that you need toknow.
Obviously, if you knowHitchcock, it makes it all the
richer and it makes it all thefunnier and you get oh my God

(52:57):
he's making fun of.
Obviously I knew the birds, thelodger, you know the references
to the spellbound characters.
I mean, yes, it makes it somuch funnier, but I don't
believe you need to.
I still can I enjoy this moviejust for the hysterically funny

(53:18):
script and performances.

One thing I've got to agree with you on is the
camera angle setup.
The camera angles are funny, nomatter what the you know going
through the window, goingthrough the window, the way they
move, they're funny.
I just think they're 10 timesfunnier if you're familiar that
those are Hitchcock inventions.

I agree with you.

They're shots we take for granted today.

I agree with you.
I agree with you.
But I mean, I'm not telling alie I really hadn't seen much
Hitchcock before I saw this Inthis movie, one of my absolute
favorite movies, a huge moviewhen I was in college.
Like what's Up, doc?
We would quote continually.
You know the drapes in thepsychotic game room we would
talk about.
You know, dinner is servedpromptly at eight in the private
dining room.
Those who are tardy do not getfruit cup, fruit cup.

(54:02):
And then she looks at HarveyKorman because you know Harvey
Korman, late, but anyway, highAnxiety.
20th Century Fox, 1977.
They had just finished SilentMovie and they're thinking they
had just spoofed Westerns.
They had spoofed horror filmswith Young Frankenstein.
They just spoofed Silent Filmwith Silent Movie.

(54:22):
What are we going to do?
While they were making SilentMovie, they were watching Frenzy
, which is Hitchcock'spenultimate film.
It's not his last film, it'shis next-to-last film.
And they said why don't wespoof Hitchcock?
Because in Mel Brooks' mind,hitchcock is a genre, just like
Westerns are a genre, just likehorror films are a genre.

(54:45):
I mean, it's Hitchcockian.
People say all the time yes,it's a genre.
So they thought why don't wespoof Hitchcock?
And the writers who wereworking on Silent Movie, ron
Clark, rudy DeLuca and BarryLevinson, who later went on to
direct Diner, a great movie allcame up with this idea of

(55:07):
spoofing Hitchcock.
They agreed they were going toincorporate, make a film in
which they could incorporate asmany of their favorite scenes as
they could into some kind ofloose crazy story.
But there are four main filmsspoofed, four main Hitchcock
films spoofed in High Anxiety,and I'm not going to put you on
the spot, but just give me acouple, brad, if you can name a

(55:28):
couple.

The two that I think stand out for everyone,
regardless if they've ever seenthe movies or not.
Are the Birds and PsychoCorrect?
We also have obviously Vertigo,which is my least favorite
Hitchcock film, though I haven'tseen them all.
North by Northwest is probablythe one joke I think falls flat
because it's a little too onyour nose.
Is probably the one joke Ithink falls flat because it's a

(55:50):
little too on your nose.

But think about it .
What is Mel's name?
What is Mel Brooks' name inHigh Anxiety?

Oh my.

Dr Thorndyke.

Oh, I was going to say Thorndyke, but I thought
that was the doctor that wasbefore him.

Richard Thorndyke and Cary Grant's name in North
by Northwest is North byNorthwest, and North by
Northwest is Roger, north byNorthwest.
In North by Northwest is RogerThornhill.
So there's your North byNorthwest also, and you're
missing the big one, spellbound.

I was about to say Spellbound, spellbound takes
place in a mental institution.
With a new doctor.

With a new doctor.
So those are the main fourSpellbound, vertigo, the Birds
and Psycho.
Also hints at North byNorthwest, the Wrong man Frenzy,
the Lodger Dial-In for Murder,dr Richard Thorndike, who is a

(56:53):
psychiatrist, who comes to workat the Institute for the Very,
very Nervous after Dr Ashley,his predecessor, died under
suspicious circumstances, andthat's how the film starts.
And there's also one other filmthat high anxiety kind of dips
into, and it's a 1955 filmcalled the Cobweb.
So it's not just Hitchcock,this is a 1955 Vincent Minnelli

(57:15):
film called the Cobweb.
It's about the goings on at aninstitute for nervous disorders
in which the staff are crazierthan the patients.
It's not a comedy either, it'sa melodrama, and many of them
obsess over the drapes in theclinic library.
So that's where we get NurseDiesel saying the drapes in the

(57:38):
psychotic game room.

Oh yes.

Dr Ashley Felt he had big plans to change that.
Well, dr Ashley Felt, thatcolor has a great deal to do
with the well-being of theemotionally disturbed, and so
that's where the drapes comefrom, from the film the Cobweb
from 1955.
When they got a rough drafttogether, mel Brooks knew that
he had to get the blessing ofHitchcock.

(58:03):
He knew, you know, he wasn'tgoing to move forward with this
unless Hitchcock said it wasokay.
So he called him, and Hitchcockwas a big fan of Blazing
Saddles.
Mel told Hitchcock said it wasokay.
So he called him, and Hitchcockwas a big fan of Blazing
Saddles.
Mel told Hitchcock that he wasthe greatest filmmaker who ever
lived and he wanted to create afaithful but satiric look at
some of his most memorablescenes.
So they went to Hitchcock'soffice at Universal.
Mel had lunch with him, he readthem the outline, he read it,

(58:25):
took it home, he came back, hegave him some pointers and from
then on Mel would go toHitchcock's office every Friday
to work on the script.
So Hitchcock was kind of ascript doctor on High Anxiety
because he would fix things.
He'd say no, that's not quiteright, you've got to do this,
this and this.
And they developed a real it'sreally a heartwarming story a

(58:52):
wonderful friendship, and theywould continue to have lunches
Even after high anxiety wasfinished.
They usually go to Chasen's andhave these enormous lunches and
Mel Brooks told a very funnystory about they would have a
huge lunch, you know, beefWellington and starting off with
shrimp cocktail and beefWellington and chocolate sundaes
, and then sometimes they wouldbe finished and Hitchcock would
look up and call the waiter overand say again and he would have

(59:13):
the entire meal again.
Oh, my word, yeah.
So I mean that's Hitchcock.
So Hitchcock actually helpedwrite High Anxiety.
He's uncredited.
The film was dedicated to him.
You really see Mel's love forHitchcock.
This is absolutely right.
It is truly a faithful satiricand loving.

(59:35):
Look at some of the funniestthings in Hitchcock, because the
thing about Hitchcock is and alot of contemporary critics said
this about High Anxiety there'san awful lot of humor in
Hitchcock.
Hitchcock considered Psycho adark comedy.
So so much of Hitchcock.
North by Northwest haswonderful touches of humor.
I think the only one thatdoesn't have a lot of humor is
Vertigo.

(59:55):
But that's just because you andI neither one of us are crazy
about Vertigo.
But think about it.
There's humor in Rear Window.
There's humor in Strangers on aTrain.
I mean, there's an awful lot ofhumor.
So it's kind of hard tosatirize something which is also
already somewhat humorous, butI think he does an amazing job.
I really do.

Brad Shreve (01:00:13):
Yeah, I looked at numerous reviews from critics
and that is what I heard timeand time again, especially, I
think, cisco neighbor.
But a lot of other reviewerssaid the same thing and the
whole time I'm thinking, yeah,but he did.
It just seemed nitpicky.
Just seemed nitpicky and Ithought, in my opinion, quite
dumb, because I I felt like theywere looking for something.

(01:00:33):
I think he did a great job.
Yes, there's lots of humorhumor in hitchcock films but
there's no reason why you can'ttake it a level further, which
is what brooks is great at istotally what he's great at and
it's an affectionate satire.

Tony Maietta (01:00:43):
That's, oh, totally.
It's done with such love all ofmel brooks's satires really are
.
I mean, I think that's truewith Blazing Saddles, I think
that's true, certainly true withYoung Frankenstein.
It's an affectionate look atHitchcock and a take on
Hitchcock.
And I think one of the mostinteresting things is and we
hinted at it a little bit is oneof Hitchcock's.
Brooks noticed that one of hishallmarks is the camera is like

(01:01:07):
another character the way, thecamera moves.
We just talked about rope lastseason with Steven, the way
Hitchcock filmed rope.
Yeah, it was a gimmick makingit look like one big long take,
but that camera moves like aperson in rope.
I guess probably the mostfamous is Notorious the scene
with the key in Ingrid Bergman'shand and how the camera starts

(01:01:29):
way up high and comes down inone long shot until it's
virtually a close-up of the keyin her hand.
The camera movements and hedoes that in High Anxiety.
He does that when the camera.
One of the best scenes is whenthe camera's under the glass
table when Nurse Diesel and DrMontague are planning Dr

(01:01:50):
Thorndyke's death and thecamera's watching them through
this glass table.
And every time they take a sipfrom their coffee they put the
plate down and it blocks thecamera view.
So the camera moves.
And then they put another platedown and it blocks the camera
view.
Then it moves again untilfinally Cloris Leachman picks up
a big tray and says shut up andfinish your strudel, and she
just puts this plate down.

It entirely blocks the camera, view it's one of the
hysterical scenes.

But this is the kind of stuff he did.
It's a wonderful, wonderfultakeoff on Hitchcock.
Another reason why I think that, like I said, I don't think you
have to know Hitchcock to lovethis movie are the characters.
Let's talk about some of thesecharacters here.
First of all, when they werewriting the script, they said
for the role of RichardThorndyke, the doctor, the main

(01:02:37):
character, they said we need aCary Grant type for this role
and Mel said that's me, I'll doit.
So he did so he cast himself asthe lead and I think your
opinion on this.
I think he looks pretty good inthis movie.
I was always struck by you know, he's a very cute man.
He's a cute, cuddly Melbrook.

(01:02:59):
But I think he looks prettyhandsome in this film, first
starring role.

I think he did great, I think he looks because
he's kind of unassuming in anassuming kind of way.

Yeah, no, he's great.
I think he's incrediblycharming.
He's Mel Brooks.
He's incredibly charming.

Yeah, I'm surprised at how well he did.

Yeah, I mean he's not Cary Grant, but nobody was
Cary Grant.
Cary Grant wasn't Cary Grant.

Right.

But he certainly fills the role.
And here we go with these othercharacters which we've kind of
briefly touched on the brilliantHarvey Korman playing Dr
Montague.
You know, after working withhim on Blazing Saddles, mel kept
trying to find opportunitiesfor him and I guess there wasn't
an opportunity for him in Young, frankenstein or Silent Movie.
But Dr Montague, the perfect.
He's such a slimy, sleazycharacter and nobody plays

(01:03:56):
better than Harvey Korman.

And this is something that interested me,
because it's been a while sinceI saw High Anxiety and I thought
, okay, korman is kind of thevillain in this film.
I wonder if he's going to beidentical to the character in
yeah to Headley in BlazingSaddles, and I was kind of
concerned about that.
And no, he wasn't.
He was sleazy, but he was alsoinsecure, I guess for lack of a

(01:04:21):
better word- he's very effete.

He's very effete and he's you know, he's
basically you know he's whippedby Nurse Diesel.
I mean they are in an S and Mrelationship and he's definitely
the M part of that relationship.
But yeah, he's very much amilquetoast, he's very much a
namby-pamby kind of.
He's just a sleazy, sleazycharacter.
And Corman is so brilliant andwhen we talk about farce and we

(01:04:46):
talk about a spoof, and I saywhat makes these things work is
the actor's absolute dedicationto their reality and that
there's no better example ofthat than in the fruit cup scene
.
So you know, nurse Diesel hasalready said dinner is served
promptly at eight and those whoare tardy do not get fruit cup.
And then she looks up at DrMontague and leaves.

(01:05:08):
So we know he's always late.
So they're having dinner andthe fruit cups are there and
there's no Dr Montague.
So she rings the bell and theserver comes and takes away the
fruit cup and at that momentHarvey Korman comes tripping
down the stairs.
He's like floating, because heknows he's late, but he's going

(01:05:29):
to make it.
He's going to make it.
He's skipping down the stairs.
He's like floating, because heknows he's late, but he's going
to make it.
He's going to make it.
He's skipping down the stairs.
He does a little hop, he runsover to the table.
He sits down, he takes hisnapkin out with a flourish.
He flips his napkin, puts it onhis lap, takes a look at Nurse
Diesel, gives her a little smile, grabs his spoon, goes down to
his fruit cup and brings up air.
And that's when he realizes thefruit cup is gone.

(01:05:52):
He goes through this entiremachinations of having some and
it doesn't get to the very lastmoment when he brings up a
spoonful of air to his mouth,does he realize that the fruit?
I mean?
It's this kind of dedicationthat makes this so funny.

And going back to Hedley Lamar, this is where I
really see that there was adifference and it shows his
genius.
Hedley was a clown, but at alltimes he was self-confident,
right, never lost his confidence.
That is totally different, ohcompletely.

He's completely different.
He's a completely different.
Yeah, he's the genius of HarveyKorman.
And just the other side of thatcoin we've talked about it
before Cloris Brando.
I mean, I don't think there wasa more gifted character actress
than Cloris Leachman.
But beautiful.
That's the thing about ClorisLeachman we forget because she

(01:06:43):
does these characters where shemakes herself hideous.
Cloris Leachman was a beautyqueen.
She began her career in beautypageants.
So you know, she's beautiful asPhyllis, she's a beautiful
woman, but she would do thesethings to herself.
I mean, look what she did toherself in Young Frankenstein,
you know.
And Nurse Diesel has to be, inmy opinion, like her utmost

(01:07:07):
creation.
What she does with Nurse Diesel, in my opinion, like her utmost
creation, what she does withNurse Diesel.

It's tremendous.
I heard Cloris interviewedyears ago and she was talking
about the characters that Melalways gives her and she said
every movie I have more molesand bigger warts, but these are
her choices.

Yeah, I'm going to do a little plug.
I did, and I told this to Bradbefore we started recording.
You know, I did a documentaryon high anxiety with Mel Brooks
and with Cloris Leachman wasthere and Dom DeLuise's son,
because he passed by.
Then Harvey Korman had alsopassed and Cloris talked about
that.
She talked about the fact thatshe created Nurse Diesel.
Okay, the documentary is on theBlu-ray so, unfortunately,

(01:07:47):
unless you have the Blu-ray, youdon't get to see it.
I put it on my YouTube channeland they took it down.
Damn it.
So anyway, she's the one whocame up with that costume.
She's the one who came up withthe pointed bra, the cone-shaped
bra.
She felt she was unbalancedwith the cone-shaped bra so she
wanted a hump on her back tokind of balance the fact that

(01:08:09):
her boobs were sticking straightout, the black wig, the very
pallid complexion and, accordingto Mel, she showed up to their
first scene in her full attire,never having seen her before,
with a pointed cone breast, theblack wig and a slightly hairy
lip.
And Mel said we're going to beable to see that in the close-up

(01:08:32):
, cloris, and she said I know, Iput it there.
She thought she just had alittle hairy lip.
So I mean, she created thislook, she created the talk, the
distinct Nurse, diesel talk withthe siblings and it's just.
She's just a genius, geniuscharacter out of the mind of

(01:08:54):
Cloris Leachman, brilliant.

And I think you told me before that the lipstick
on her teeth was an accidentand they left it there.

Yeah, that's another thing she said.
She said she looked and she sawshe had lipstick on her teeth
in the dinner scene and she said, oh, it looks good, I'll keep
it there.
I mean whatever could make.
We always talk about Lucymaking herself look ridiculous.
Cloris Leachman was the queenof that.
Nobody made herself look moreridiculous, and more believably
so, than Cloris Leachman, andit's a genius, genius

(01:09:21):
performance.

And she didn't play it for comedy.

She didn't.
Well, that's as I've said, youknow that's, that's the best
comedy.
That's what comedy is.
You don't play comedy likeyou're playing a comedy.
You play comedy like you'replaying a drama.
Yeah, because to the especiallya farce, especially a farce you
have.
These actors have to believe150% in what they're doing,
otherwise it doesn't play.
Yeah, you can't do that, youhave to play it.

(01:09:51):
Idea, as I said before, some ofthese other characters Ron
Carey, remember when I said thatHigh Anxiety isn't all
Hitchcock, I talked about thecobweb.
There was actually a characteractor from the 30s and 40s named
Edward Brophy that Ron Carey'scharacter of Brophy is based on
and he was like a henchman, hewas like a sidekick and he would
say things in these films likegee boss, I couldn't find a cab
anywhere.

(01:10:12):
Gee boss, and that's what RonCarey's character is based on.
But Ron Carey also used to dothe sketch comedy bit where he
played a weightlifter and histagline was I got it, I got it.

I got it, I ain't got it.

And so that's why that's in there.

I figured they had to come from somewhere and I had
no idea.
And I love when Brophyintroduces himself to Thorndyke.
He says I'm your limo driverand sidekick Driver and sidekick
.
He had sidekick in there.

Yeah, just like Edward Brophy.
Do you know who Howard Morrisplays, dr Lil' Olman?

I'm not familiar with him.
I know his face.
I knew right away who he is.

I was going to ask you a question.
He's most well-known forplaying a certain character on a
TV show from the 60s and I wasgoing to ask you if you knew who
it was.

I want to say the chemist on Bewitched, but that's
not it, because he was the guyfrom I can't think of his name,
the guy from Love Vote.

Yeah, no, I don't know Ernie Coppell.

Yeah.

He was Ernest T Bass on the Andy.

Griffith Show.
Oh my Lord, and he was aproducer or director.

He was also a producer and director.
He actually directed someepisodes of Bewitched.
But he worked with Mel way backin the 50s with Sid Caesar.
He's in a very funny takeoff ofthis Is your Life that they did
on either your show of shows orCaesar's Hour, and so he knew
Mel from them.
So Mel loved the fact that hecould bring his buddy from
working with Sid Caesar onto theshow and he's wonderful.

(01:11:40):
The Laughter Little Omen isbased on a character in
Spellbound.
He's based on the character ofDr Brulov in Spellbound.
So there's your other, there'sanother Hitchcock.

Professor Little Old man.

Little Old man.
Little Old man, Now climb,climb, you, son of a bitch Climb
.
I'm just going to throw linesout there.
People would be like I hopeeverybody's watch High Anxiety
before they listen to this,because otherwise this makes no
sense.
So also we have.
Because it is a Going Hollywoodpodcast and because it's Mel

(01:12:13):
Brooks yes, we have the sublimegoddess Madeline Kahn.
Madeline plays VictoriaBrisbane who is doing a takeoff
on every Hitchcock blonde.
There was mostly Kim Novak, butalso Vera Miles, tippi Hendren.
She has a long blonde wig andshe her first appearance.

(01:12:35):
Mel brooks opens the door andshe rushes in the room and says
get away from the door.
She's so funny and she'sactually the one who came up
with the sight gag that you love.
Tell the people what the sightgag is that you love.
That we talked about before,that Madeline Kahn, when she
meets Dr Thorndyke after he'squote unquote done the murder.

Her outfits match her car.

Yes, she drives up in this Cadillac Seville
covered with the Louis Vuittonpattern.
She gets out and she's in theexact same jumpsuit as the
materials, the same clutching, aLouis Vuitton bag.
So her, her bag matches herpantsuit matches her car.
She has that much money.

(01:13:23):
It's so funny.
It was Madeline Kahn's idea.
That was her idea when theywere putting it together.
So you know what more can yousay aboutleine Kahn's idea?
That was her idea when theywere putting it together.
So you know what more can yousay about Madeleine Kahn?
She's actually in this one.
She's probably the most subdued,I think, of all of her, because
she's basically playing KimNovak, she's playing Hitchcock's
blonde and there's not a lotthere.
But what she does, she doeswonderful, wonderful things.

(01:13:46):
We should probably say that herfather, Arthur Brisbane, is a
patient at the Institute for theVery, very Nervous and she
hasn't heard from him in weeksand she's very concerned and
that's why she tracks down MelBrooks' character and Mel Brooks
was introduced to Dr Brisbaneby Cloris Leachman's character,
by Nurse Diesel and Dr Montaguecharacter by Nurse Diesel and Dr

(01:14:14):
Montague as a Cocker Spaniel.
It's another patient that theysaid was Arthur Brisbane and
people always say to her shegoes.
He's my father and they sayyou're the Cocker's daughter
Because they think he's a CockerSpaniel.
So, anyway, that's why VictoriaBrisbane meets Dr Thorndyke and
they realize something's goingon at the Institute for the Very
, Very Nervous and they need toinvestigate what happens.

(01:14:37):
But what prevents them fromgoing back?
What is the plot point thatprevents them from going back to
the Institute when they're inSan Francisco at the hotel?
What happens that prevents themfrom going back?

Mel Brooks or Thorndyke, excuse me is framed
for a murder.

That's right.
He's framed for a murder.
And who frames?
What's the character's namethat actually shoots?
The man that frames DrThorndyke?

I don't remember.
I know he's a takeoff on Jawsfrom the James Bond films.

He's played by one of the writers, rudy deluca.
His name is braces, braces.
Braces, because cloris reallygoes hello.
Braces.
Yes, he's one of the writers.
Rudy deluca plays braces, theone who is the killer.
Um, also, barry levinson, as wesaid before, who was one of the

(01:15:31):
writers, also has a role inHigh Anxiety.
All three of them have allthree writers have roles.
He plays Dennis the bellboy andhe is a very high-strung
bellboy and he, along with MelBrooks, recreate probably the
most famous scene in horror filmhistory.
And do you want to give us alittle bit of background about

(01:15:52):
what they're recreating whenthey do that?

Well, they're recreating the shower scene from
psycho.

Right, right, exactly.
And how do they do that?

And the bellboy.
He has been repeatedly told byBrooks that he wants a newspaper
and he keeps putting off First.
He's like we don't have anewspaper in the hotel.
I'd have to go down the street,I didn't feel like it.
And Brooks keeps having tocomplain that he wants his
newspaper.
So Brooks is in the shower.
It's almost identical in shots.

It is, it's almost shot per shot To.

Psycho yeah, almost shot per shot.
It's almost shot per shot ToPsycho yeah, almost shot per
shot.
It's like you're watchingPsycho, but with Brooks there.

Yes, instead of Janet Leigh getting in the
shower, it's Mel Brooks.

And you see this shadowy figure coming up to the
shower curtain, just like inPsycho, and the arm is raised
and the curtain opens and hestarts jabbing Thorndyke with
the newspaper, screaming aboutthe newspaper.

Where's your newspaper?
The funny thing about BarryLevinson is Barry Levinson had
this gift where he could makehis voice go higher and higher
and higher.

Oh my god, yes.

So, as Dennis is getting more and more irritated
each time he's reminded to getthe newspaper Alright, I'll get
your newspaper, I'll get yourlousy, stinking newspaper.
It gets higher and higher andhigher.
So, finally, when he gets thepaper and Mel's in the shower
and the figure comes up behindthe shower curtain with his arm
raised and he pulls it back andit's Dennis with his paper

(01:17:14):
rolled up like it was the knife,and starts stabbing Mel with
the newspaper.
He goes here's your paper,here's your paper.
Happy, happy, now Happy.
And he goes higher and higherand higher happy, happy, now
happy.

He goes higher and higher and higher, and the
beauty is one of the mostmemorable things about the.

The stabbing in the shower in psycho is the
blood flowing down the drain atthe end yes, yes and in this
movie we see the ink from thepaper and hitch cast, the ink
substitutes for the blood goingaround the drain.
And then you get that shot ofMel, just like you get a shot of
Janet Leigh and her eye open,Mel's eyes open, but he's not
dead.
He says that kid gets no tip.

(01:17:55):
So that's a very famous.
That's a very famous scene.
Hitchcock loved that scene.
He said two things to Mel.
He said I love the newsprintgoing down the drain, but you
missed two shower rings yeswhich alfred hitchcock.
What is the second?

(01:18:15):
I think the second best scenein this film.
That's a takeoff that you loveoh my, my gosh.

Oh the birds.

Yes, of course.

It's the slapstickiest if that's a word
seen in the whole movie, andprobably if it was another movie
I wouldn't think it was thatfunny.
But my God, it was perfect.

It's so funny.
According to Mel Brooks, it wasthe only scene that Hitchcock
laughed at out loud during thescreening and it's basically.
Yes, it's a takeoff on thebirds.
He's at a park and all of thesepigeons conglomerate, just like
they do in the birds on ajungle gym, and he starts to get

(01:18:57):
up slowly and, sure enough, thepigeons follow him, but they're
not pelting, they're not divingat him, they're pelting him
with bird shit, which was amixture which Mel Brooks said
was a mixture of mayonnaise andspinach and it looks like it,
and he literally, by the end ofthe scene, he is covered in this

(01:19:18):
bird shit, and Mel Brooks saidthat actually, one of the a
couple of them were actual, realbird shit.
Some of the pigeons let loose onhim.
These were the actual pigeons,not the same pigeons from the
birds, but the trainer,hitchcock, introduced him to the
guy who trained them in thebirds.
So he trained these pigeons todo this for high anxiety, which

(01:19:39):
is an incredibly fortuitousthing when you think about it.
Well, when you're working withHitchcock and he's your script
doctor on, your takeoff on HighAnxiety makes sense.
So, yeah, I think that'sprobably one of the funniest,
funniest scenes ever.

Yeah, and I was sitting there watching it
because you know, in the moviethe Birds you can kind of see
the birds are superimposed attimes and they were real and
then some were fake.
I sat there and watched thismovie and I'm like how did they
do that?
It looks so real.
Was it really real?

I'm like no, it couldn't have been, I guess it
was yeah, they were above thecamera and they were shooting
these pellets of mayonnaise andspinach onto Brooks, which makes
him covered in bird poop.
It's so funny.
It's so funny and because it'sMel Brooks, we have to have a
song.
And in High Anxiety we have thesong High Anxiety, which Mel

(01:20:35):
and Dr Thorndyke and Victoriaare at a bar, at a piano bar,
and Dr Thorndyke, who's apsychiatrist, he's not a singer
they say why don't you go aheadand sing something?
And Victoria and Madeline Conneggs him on and he goes.
Okay, do you know high anxiety,just like he's saying.

So random.

Yeah, do you know Stardust?
Do you know high anxiety?
Do you know my Melancholy Baby?
And so Dr Thorndyke gets upwith the mic in his hand and
suddenly turns into FrankSinatra and Mel Brooks does a
peerless Frank Sinatra takeoffof High Anxiety.
He even does the.
You know how Sinatra wouldleave out words and put in

(01:21:22):
sounds.
He goes like ooh, ooh, anxiety.
He whips the mic cord aroundand at one point he whips the
mic cord and Madeline Kahn goesooh, oh, it's such a fun, fun
movie.
And in the end, of course, theymake it back to the Institute
for the very, very nervous.
They get her father just intime Norton, one of the hoodlums

(01:21:45):
at the Institute, is about tothrow him off a very familiar
tower, one that you might haveseen in the Hitchcock movie
called Vertigo.
It's not the same tower butsame idea.
Dr Thorndyke overcomes his highanxiety in time to save Dr
Brinsman-Bain off the out of thetower.

(01:22:07):
And just when they thinkthey're safe, they're like oh,
it's over, thank God.
The door falls and here comesCloris Leachman in a witch's
outfit and she, of course, goesto lunge at them.
She's got a broom in her handand she goes to lunge at them
and she misses and she falls outthe window and you see her

(01:22:28):
start to fall and suddenly sheworks the broom around to where
she's riding it.

And she's cackling.

She's cackling.

She's cackling and sitting on this broom and you
expect her to fly off.

Yes, you do.

And then a very graphic scene of her hitting the
rocks.

She hits the rocks and goodbye Nurse Diesel,
goodbye Nurse Dean, nurse, nurse.
But oh, when she comes out,when she came out in that
witch's outfit, it's just sooutrageous and funny.
It's so funny and I thinkHarvey Korman and Harvey
Korman's behind her, but HarveyKorman gets hit with a door and
falls over.
I don't think he plunges outthe window.

I think he's yeah when the door hits him.
That's the last he sees.

He's fine because he never liked her.
I never liked her.
She never bathed.
He's so ready to change sides.
That's what he is.
He's one of these guys.
He's so ready to change sides.
So that's high anxiety.
At the end, dr Thorndyke andVictoria Brisbane get married
and that's how it ends and we'retreated to the high anxiety

(01:23:32):
waltz as the credits roll.
And it's just for me personally, and we've talked about this.
I just find it such a delight Iput that movie on.
It's one of these movies I puton, and from the very opening
scene in the airport when thatwoman's holding the umbrella,
and she's screaming and hethinks she's going to attack him
, but she's so excited to seeher loved one at the airport.

(01:23:56):
I just start laughing.
I just laugh, laugh and laugh.

What a dramatic airport.

What a dramatic airport.
I love it.
I love it.
The thing I want to talk about,too, with the breaking the
fourth wall.
Another one of my favoritescenes is the dinner scene.
We talked about the camera beinga person in Hitchcock films,
and this is what Brooks does inthis.
Not only the scene shot underthe glass table, but when

(01:24:21):
they're all having dinner at theInstitute and we're outside the
dining room and it's beautifulfrench doors and the camera's
pulling in closer and closer toget into the scene and it goes a
little too far and it breaksthe glass of the door and they
all stop and look up and thenthe camera kind of shyly pulls

(01:24:42):
away like oops, I didn't mean todo that, it's just such a funny
little bit.
And then they continue with thescene.

Yeah, they don't say a word.

They look over.
They don't say a word, theyjust all stop and look and then,
and at the end of the movie,the camera does the same thing.
It pulls back from Mel Brooksand Madeline Kahn as they're in
bed and it goes through the walland they do the same thing.
They stop and they look up, andthen the cameraman says keep
going, maybe nobody will noticethere's a big hole in the wall.

(01:25:11):
Anyway, that's high anxiety.
I love it, love it, love it.
I think that it's one of MelBrooks' crowning achievements.

The desk clerk is Jack Riley.

Jack Riley, oh, dennis.

Yeah, most known for playing Mr Carlson or Mr
Carlin in the Bob Newhart show.
Mr Carlin, the very neuroticjerk on Bob Newhart show and I
keep wondering was he chosen?
You know, the main theme of thestory or the backdrop of the
story is the psychiatrichospital.
So I'm like, was he chosen forthat?

(01:25:44):
And I'm like, no, they wouldhave put him in the psych ward.
Most likely he was.

I don't know he was just a friend of mel brooks
he's okay that's just like dickvan patten.
We didn't talk about dick vanpatten.
In one of the funniest, mostterrifying death scenes, I think
, ever, dick van patten dies ofa busted eardrum because he's
trying to escape the institute.
He's a doctor, he's drwentworth, and he's trying to
escape the Institute.

(01:26:08):
He's a doctor, he's DrWentworth and he's trying to
escape the clutches of NurseDiesel and they let him go.
But now they're going to killhim and he's stuck and he's
trapped in this car and hisradio is on and he can't turn it
off.
It's been rigged and it'splaying this loud rock song
called If you Love Me, baby,tell Me Loud.
And it gets louder and louderuntil finally he dies of a
busted eardrum, which is anotherbrilliancy.

(01:26:30):
No, he was a friend, just likeDick Van Patten, just like
Howard Morris.
You know Mel Brooks.
We talked about this duringwhat's Up.
Doc Mel Brooks surroundedhimself with basically a
repertory company and thesepeople that he would use again
and again and plug them indifferent films Made Madeline
Kahn, obviously, harvey Korman.
We talked about Liam Dunn andJohn Hillerman.

(01:26:51):
I mean, he loved using peopleCloris Leachman, gene Wilder
Using people again and againthat he trusted and that he knew
would deliver.
And that's just who he was andthat's such a funny scene, the
whole movie's funny.

Let me give you ideas of things that I don't
think would work if you aren'tfamiliar with hitchcock,
especially today's world or I'veeven heard people say who's
hitchcock?
Which makes my skin crawl.
Vertigo, yeah.
So whenever mel is is uh,dealing with high anxiety, you
see him falling with this thecircle spinning behind him, just
like they did in vertigo.

(01:27:26):
Right, if you never saw vertigo, you'd be just like what is
with these cheesy specialeffects?

I think like that is really cheesy well I think I
could be wrong no, I think you'dget that they was.
Maybe you didn't know what theywere spoofing, but you know he
was spoofing something you know.
I mean, it's just that's.
You would just know that I, Ithink, I really do think that's
the case.
I don't, I don't think it'sessential.
Yes, it makes it much, muchmore satisfying viewing to know

(01:27:53):
what they're spoofing.
But we just told you Go watchHigh Anxiety.

Let's know what your experience is.
If you're not familiar withHitchcock and you watch this
film and enjoyed it, or you knowpeople that did, it's hard when
you're familiar with them tokind of put your, because I was
thinking maybe I should watch itagain with the blinders on, but
that's impossible.

No, you can't.

So we'd like to hear from you.

Yeah and don't do yeah, don't.
You have the knowledge of it.
It makes it all the funnier.
Man himself, Hitchcock, lovedit.
Hitchcock, yep Mel, said he wasreally worried at the screening
he was at the first screeningbecause he didn't laugh.
He only laughed at the scenewith the birds he knew.
But he said he got back to hisoffice the next day and there
was a case of champagne and alovely note from Hitchcock

(01:28:36):
saying how much he loved it and,as I said, they were friends
for the rest of Hitchcock's life.
So I don't think you can askfor a better testimonial than
that.

Two geniuses, two geniuses.

Didn't make quite as much money as Blazing Saddles
, but it still made $31 million,which was on a budget of $4
million.
That's quite a payday.
So Mel Brooks went on afterthis to do more spoofs.
He did Spaceballs, robin Hood,men in Tights.
I think that this was reallyhis golden era, from Blazing

(01:29:08):
Saddles to High Anxiety.
I think the 70s were his timeand I think I have issues with
History of the World.
I think it's a little too.
I like some scenes in it verymuch.
I think they're very funny, butI think some of it's a little
tasteless.
A lot of it and that's thething about Mel Brooks is he

(01:29:28):
straddles that line.
It's a very tight line and Ifind parts of History of the
World a little tasteless.
But it's a fun movie.
But I think these were reallyhis prime periods and I think we
have two films here whichabsolutely illustrate that.

I didn't like History of the World.
When I saw it in the theater Iwas really disappointed.
When I watch it now, I laughmore, but it's definitely to me
too over the top for Mel Brooks.
It's the same way I feel aboutSpaceballs.
There's humor in both of them,but I think he goes a little too
far and doesn't take themserious enough.

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think this was
definitely his great period asfar as films go.

Now, as far as how High Anxiety did, it was only
the 17th top grossing film in1977.
But you got to look at thefilms that it was up against.
Star Wars the first one, StarWars 4, a New Hope, close
Encounters of the Third Kind,was number two.
Saturday Night Fever was numberthree, smoking the Bandit,
number four.
I don't think that movie standsup today.
And then the Good Bye Girl,number five.

(01:30:29):
It had some movies that weretop of the heap there.

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I mean, but I still I
think personally, and I thinkmaybe it's not quite, as it's
not as outrageous as BlazingSaddles, true, but I love the
affection that Brooks clearlyhas for Hitchcock.
It's just shown in this andit's just a delightful, a

(01:30:53):
delightful silly movie.
I love putting on it and I justlaugh from the beginning to the
end.

And I will say that is probably one for the first
time that I kind of thought Idon't know about this movie
because I've always loved it.
I think part of the reason Igot that is I watched Blazing
Saddles one night and the verynext night I watched High
Anxiety and I'm like God, thisis kind of slow.
But, it's not the same film.

It's not the same film.
It's not the same film, it'snot.
Wow.
Well, that's our seasonpremiere, brad, blazing Saddles
and High Anxiety.
That's a lot.
You know, listener, we want tosay too we already have a lot of
stuff, great stuff, scheduledcoming up.
We have some great theme monthscoming up.
We're going to try this time wealso have some interesting
guest stars, some fun gueststars lined up.

(01:31:39):
Yeah, I'm really excited aboutsome of the movies and TV shows
we're going to talk about comingup, brad.

I'm excited too.
We have a great list.
We did some brainstormingbefore the season began, so we
can be ahead of ourselves,unlike last season.
You may have thought it wasfine, we got every week, but,
boy behind the scenes, we werestruggling.
Not this year, no, not thisyear.

But yeah, we have some exciting stuff coming up.
So please, by all means, asalways, not this year, but yeah,
we have some exciting stuffcoming up.
So please, by all means, asalways, tell your friends.
Please send us messages, a textmessage.
We'll have our Spotify playlist, although the soundtrack for
High Anxiety is pretty muchalready up there, because Brad
put it up there for our episodelast year and unfortunately,
high Anxiety isn't on Spotifybut it's on YouTube, so I'll

(01:32:23):
leave a link.
We'll leave a link to that onthe YouTube page.
Also, we will put I'll put alink to my documentary I did
with Mel and Cloris and thosepeople.
It's called Spoofing the Masterof Suspense, mel and Hitchcock.
It's a cute one and if youdon't have a Blu-ray and you
can't watch it, sorry.

I'm going to say one thing about the playlist.
I canceled my Spotify accountbecause I went over to YouTube
Music and I think it deleted myplaylist.
So we'll have to.
If it happened, we'll have tohurriedly.
I know you're still on Spotifyput it together.

It's still up there.

It's still there.
Okay, good, never mind what Ijust said, yeah.

Well, Brad, do we have anything else to say about
Blazing Saddles and High Anxietyand our season premiere?

I think it was.
We went out.
We started with a bang.

We did.
We did.
This was a big one.
It was a long one, but itneeded to be because it's our
premiere.
So I guess there's nothing leftto say, but I don't want to say
it.
So you know what?
Let's not say goodbye Brad,let's just say High Anxiety.
Say goodbye Brad, let's justsay high anxiety.
You win.
Bye everybody.

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Blazing Anxiety: Celebrating Mel Brooks' "Blazing Saddles"(1974) and "High Anxiety"(1977)

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