June 25, 2025 • 49 mins
In "Midnight Express" (Columbia, 1978) Brad Davis delivers a gut-wrenching performance as a young man whose brief moment of stupidity in a foreign country derails his entire life and inexorably alters his future. Based on the true story of American tourist Billy Hayes’ harrowing fight to survive and escape from a Turkish prison in the 1970s, the film garnered 6 Oscar nominations and two wins (including one for first-time screenwriter Oliver Stone) and altered US-Turkish relations for years to come.
“Midnight Express” (1978)
Directed by Alan Parker, Screenplay by Oliver Stone
Produced by Peter Guber, Alan Marshall and David Putnam
With Brad Davis, John Hurt, Randy Quaid, Bo Hopkins, and Irene Miracle
A Columbia Pictures Release
Text us & We'll Respond on an Episode
Links to Tony's website, and Brad's website at www.goinghollywoodpodcast.com
Follow us on Instagram @goinghollywoodpod
Reach us at goinghollywoodpodcast@gmail.com
Listen to our Going Hollywood Playlist
Podcast logo by Umeworks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Clip (00:01):
Best thing to do is to get your ass out of here.
Yeah, but how?
Catch the Midnight Express.
What's that?
It's not a train, it's prisonword for escape.
(00:23):
Dad, get me out of here.
I promise you, Billy.
You can drift in here and neverknow you're gone.
You can fade so far out and youdon't know where you are
anymore or where anything elseis.
I find loneliness is thephysical pain which hurts all
(00:48):
over.
You can't isolate it in onepart of your body.
The prosecutor objected to yoursentence for possession.
He wanted a smugglingconviction and the high court in
Ankara reviewed it.
High court and anchor reviewedit and there were 35 judges on
(01:09):
the high court.
28 voted for a life sentence.
We notified your dad, what doyou mean?
Billy Live.
Billy Live for what?
For what?
For what?
I have 53 days left.
I have 53 days left.
I have 53 days left.
Billy, you're running out oftime.
(01:30):
If you stay here, you'll die.
Jesus Christ, you've got to getyourself together.
You've got to get out of here.
Tony Maietta (01:44):
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.
Brad Shreve (01:47):
And I'm Brad Shreve , who's just a guy who likes
movies.
Tony Maietta (01:51):
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's
golden age.
We go behind the scenes andshare our opinions too.
Brad Shreve (01:57):
And, of course, being the average guy, my
opinions are the ones thatmatter.
Tony Maietta (02:03):
As does your self-delusion.
Welcome to Going Hollywood.
Brad Shreve (02:08):
Tony, when you were preparing for this episode
watching Midnight Express, didyou find yourself laughing as
hard as I was laughing?
Imdb says it's a dark comedy.
It's uproarious.
Oh, it's hysterical.
Tony Maietta (02:28):
It's up there with Tootsie.
Do they really say that?
Does it really say it's a darkcomedy?
Brad Shreve (02:34):
It says yes, it lists the different types of
film.
It is, and it says, dark comedythe first thing on the list.
Tony Maietta (02:41):
I think Billy Hayes would have some
disagreement with that.
Brad Shreve (02:48):
I don't think he found five years in a Turkish
prison uproariously funny.
I'm sure some sick individual.
Somewhere found a man bitinganother man's tongue off.
Tony Maietta (02:55):
Hysterical IMDb.
Leave it to IMDb, one stepabove Wikipedia, which I ain't
saying much.
We're talking about listener,in case you were wondering.
We are talking about MidnightExpress today, from Columbia in
1978.
And before we go any further,two things Spoiler alert.
We got spoiler alerts in thisone, so turn us off if you
(03:18):
haven't watched Midnight Express.
Second one this is Brad'schoice.
So, brad, you're flying thisplane.
You are flying this plane.
I'm just Helen.
Brad Shreve (03:26):
Hayes stowing away for the ride and winning an
Oscar or Miss Daisy in the back.
Tony Maietta (03:34):
Yeah, that's true, that's true, so yeah, so this
is interesting.
I don't find it comedy.
I I saw.
I saw Midnight Express.
I watched it for this podcast,of course, and I realized that I
hadn't seen it in 30 years.
I saw Midnight Express.
I watched it for this podcast,of course, and I realized that I
hadn't seen it in 30 years.
And after watching it again, Iprobably will wait another 30
years to sit down and watch this.
(03:55):
I'm going to be in the motionpicture home and I'm going to
say, oh, maybe I'll giveMidnight Express another try,
because, wow, it's a tough one,brad, it's a tough one, it's a
tough one, it's a tough one,brad, it's a tough one, it's a
tough one.
Brad Shreve (04:07):
It is a tough one, definitely, and I don't know how
long ago I saw it it may havebeen decades as well.
I just remembered I alwaysthought it was a very powerful
movie.
I always thought it was anextremely well-done movie.
I will admit, brad Davis wasone of my first crushes, so
that's also why it stuck in myhead.
But I just remember it being agreat film and that's why I
(04:28):
never hear anybody talk about it.
So I said let's do it.
Tony Maietta (04:31):
You know Brad Davis.
What a talent, what a kook fromeverything I've read about him
and his process.
What an incredible talent, aman who life was tragically cut
short when he contracted HIV anddied.
Actually, he committed, hecommitted suicide, but you know
(04:53):
he knew he was dying, soeuthanasia, I believe, and.
But what a tragic end to anincredible talent and incredibly
.
This sounds weird, but the onlyreason, the only word that
comes to mind when I think ofBrad Davis, is adorable.
Now, this is a really toughmovie and really the only reason
I can watch this movie is BradDavis, both his performance and
(05:16):
the fact that I find him sotouching and lovable in this
movie, even though he kind ofplays a little bit of an asshole
in this movie.
Even though he kind of plays alittle bit of an asshole in this
movie, what he goes through isso gut wrenching because of Brad
Davis, I feel.
Brad Shreve (05:31):
Yes, To think that he was a new talent.
It wasn't his first.
This was his first big one.
Tony Maietta (05:37):
Oh, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, did you ever see him
in Sybil?
Sybil was, is really hisbreakout.
Sybil, the TV movie with SallyField.
Brad Shreve (05:44):
It has been so long since I saw Sybil.
All I remember is it had SallyField in it.
I don't remember anything elseabout it.
If you think he's adorable.
Tony Maietta (05:51):
Except the story, obviously.
If you think he's adorable inMidnight Express in a Turkish
prison, you should see him.
Sybil, he plays a young man whoplays a clown at children's
parties.
Now that's either creepy oradorable.
Parties Now that's eithercreepy or adorable.
With Brad Davis, it's adorable,and he's in love with Sally
Field one of her personalities.
Brad Shreve (06:09):
He's not sure which .
I'm not sure I want to see it.
I am terrified of clowns,absolutely terrified, and so do
I want to see Brad Davis.
I got to tell you there was afestival in Echo Park one day
and I was riding the subway anda clown got on and he sat right
in front of me and startedcruising me.
It was the most terrifyingmoment of my life.
Tony Maietta (06:36):
You've heard of the day the clown cried.
Brad experienced the day theclown cruised.
Brad Shreve (06:44):
But you know, if it was Brad Davis, I probably
would have said let's go.
Tony Maietta (06:49):
I was going to say .
And Brad Davis was not thefirst choice, he was not the
studio's choice, for sure.
And the studio you know who?
The studio's first choice toplay Billy Hayes was?
Brad Shreve (07:00):
Mr Richard.
Tony Maietta (07:01):
Gere, that's right .
That's right.
And the studio really wantedGere.
And there's some funny storiesabout Gere, that's right.
That's right.
And the studio really wantedGere and there's some funny
stories about Gere which we canget into.
But Gere dropped out and ParkerAlan Parker, who directed this
film really wanted Davis.
He said that Davis's,particularly his courtroom scene
was so gut-wrenching and somoving and he was so vulnerable
that he knew he had the rightactor and he was relieved that
(07:23):
he didn't have to deal withRichard Gere.
Brad Shreve (07:27):
And do you know the story about Brad Davis's first
meeting with them?
Tony Maietta (07:31):
No, tell me about it.
I'd love to hear this.
Brad Shreve (07:33):
He lived in North Hollywood was driving to the
studio, his VW broke down.
Oh yes, I do know this.
He then ran for five milessweaty.
Tony Maietta (07:40):
Oh yes, I do know this.
Brad Shreve (07:41):
He then ran for five miles, sweaty, huffing and
puffing, popped his head in andsaid sorry I'm late and they
were so impressed at howvulnerable he was that it
carried through.
Tony Maietta (07:54):
There are no accidents.
No, no, no.
Now, if something like that hadhappened to me when I was
auditioning, they'd say sorry,get out of here, or would you
have gone.
I think it was two hours late.
Would you even showed up next?
Yeah, I would have.
Yeah, absolutely okay, I wouldhave gone.
Please, any, any port in a stormum you know, it's funny because
that, yeah, he brings such, hebrings such those qualities to
(08:17):
him that we recognize.
You know, and we were talking alittle bit about this earlier
about it is it is june, it ispride month, um, and we kind of
hinted that this was a Pridemovie.
But I think you and I bothagree we were totally wrong
about that.
I was watching this.
I'm like no, I was wrong.
The only way it can be stretchedis the fact that, yes, brad
Davis is a bit of a gay iconbecause of the fact that he
(08:42):
frequently played gay roles Imean, the most notorious of
which, of course, is Carell, theFassbinder film that he did,
which is insane but he alsoplayed Ned in the first
production of the Normal Heart,larry Kramer's play before he
died, and Brad Davis wasbisexual.
Brad Shreve (09:01):
So, yes, there are definitely some, there's some
gay elements to aura, to thebrad davis persona, but I don't
think this film is like is apride film it's a great film,
but it's not a pride film no,after we talked and I I was
thinking about the movie I'mlike you know what we're gonna
have to give the listener anapology because this isn't a
pride film in any way.
(09:22):
I mean, even if the sex scene inthe film was more graphic than
it was, and you know it was likelightning fast and and nothing
more than longing looks in eachother's eyes there's no even if
it was longer, it still wouldnot have been correct for pride,
because just because two menare in prison and need each
other and have sex to kind ofcomfort each other, doesn't mean
(09:46):
they're gay.
Tony Maietta (09:47):
Yeah, and that's not a sex scene.
Anyway, it's a misnomer to callthat a sex scene, it's a don't
have sex scene is what it is.
The memory of that loomed in myhead because when I first saw it
I was, you know, 21, 22.
I'm like, oh my God, becauseBrad Davis is so beautiful and I
(10:09):
remember it clear as day as asex scene.
I was shocked, just as shockedas I think you were.
Well, here's something, here'sa funny thing.
So to me, that sex scene iswhen I was acting and I was
doing job jobs.
One of my favorite job jobs wasat the mythic Video West in.
The one I was at was in StudioCity and it was wonderful, as
you can imagine.
I loved it and we had as youcan also imagine, we had a
pretty healthy adult filmsection.
(10:31):
But there was this one sectionthat was next to the adult film
section, which was for notreally softcore but sensual
films.
There was a company that didthese films called Greenwood
Cooper.
Okay, and these were not sexmovies.
This was not porn, this wassoft, it was the illusion of
porn.
Every you know.
Things were shot, the men wereall gorgeous and they were
(10:53):
glowing and there was steam inthe shot and the shafts of light
highlighting body parts, butyou never really saw anything.
And really bad synthesizedmusic.
That's the scene from midnightexpress.
I'm like this is a greenwoodcooper movie.
This is what this is, because Idon't have sex.
Brad Shreve (11:11):
there's no sex no, there there isn't any sex, but
like it's so alluded to it, Iremember clear as day I would
have sworn that they have sex inthis movie.
Yeah yeah, because I rememberwatching it for the first time
and thinking, oh my god, yeah itwas 1978 or whenever I saw it
it's.
Tony Maietta (11:28):
It's kind of interesting that that uh it has
a reputation and people havethis idea of this, of this sex
scene, and like no, there's nosex in it.
He, you can't even really seeanything.
It's just it's it's soromantically shot.
It really is.
I mean, they're doing yoga andthe steam and the shafts of
light are coming down and theirbodies are glistening with sweat
and you're like, oh my God,that was hot.
(11:49):
Yes, take me to a Turkishprison, but it's just like it
doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen.
Brad Shreve (11:56):
And Lister.
This movie was based on a truestory, and we have to emphasize
the word based.
Yeah, because there was a lotthat was added into this film.
There were location changes,which is kind of normal, and we
can get into the production ofwhy there were character changes
, because, you know, they tookmultiple characters and put them
(12:16):
into one, which is a norm in afilm.
None of those negated as beinga true story.
It's just that they reallyadded some stuff, a lot of
violence, and they cut theromance and the sex because
Billy Hay said, no, I needed him, we needed each other.
It was a long term.
He couldn't say that it waslove, but it was deeply
(12:40):
passionate.
Tony Maietta (12:41):
It was an emotional support.
I mean, think about it.
You're in a Turkish prison, forGod's sake.
No-transcript.
(13:09):
I Remember Mama.
I'm not going to bring up GeorgeStevens here, so relax, Brad,
but we talked about the factthat memory, just by nature of
being memory, of beingsubjective, is not going to be
necessarily gospel truth.
It's somebody's memory, sothat's one removed.
Then you have a screenwriterwho Hayes is talking to and he's
(13:31):
putting his spin anddramatizing it, so it's one
removed there.
So, yeah, so that is why itsays it's based on a true story.
It doesn't say this is a truestory, which is very, very
important.
It was very important.
Do we want to tell a little bitabout the stories about
Midnight Express, brad, and sopeople have an idea about what
we're talking about, since we'vebeen talking all around it.
Brad Shreve (13:51):
Yeah, let me talk about the emotion and then we
can talk about the film.
Billy Hayes one thing thatreally upset him is the way the
Turkish people were portrayed,and I want to get that out right
away.
He said he has a love for theturkish people.
He said that he was not happythe the film portrayed.
It depicted all turks asmonsters and it wasn't the film
(14:15):
that the turkish people deserved.
And well, we can talk more aboutthe repercussions of this film
on the, on turkey, but yeah Iwouldn't get that out, because
that is important that we wepoint out that he's like these
people weren't as evil as theywere in the movie right the
second one is there.
we're going to talk about a lotof these things that were added,
the violence and all that sortof stuff, and he said so much of
(14:37):
this film did not happen.
But what happened?
Was they caught what it feltlike.
They caught the emotions andthe feelings.
So maybe he didn't bite a man'stongue out and spit it out and
covered in blood, but those arethe feelings that he had and I
think that's very important toremember as well.
Tony Maietta (14:59):
It is, and I'm the first person to bitch about
dramatic license versus dramaticlicentiousness, as I call it,
but sometimes you need to dothat.
I think they were.
Also, he was in five differentprisons and they had to condense
it into one.
So yeah, of course, charactersare going to be combined.
There's going to be somelicense taken when you're
telling a dramatic story.
I hate it when they go way offthe path, and they didn't do
(15:23):
that with this, I mean.
Brad Shreve (15:24):
Well, imagine if this was done by Ryan Murphy.
First of all, the sex scenewould have been amazing, but
secondly, it would have been sooff the rails.
Tony Maietta (15:33):
Kathy Bates would have been in there somewhere.
Jessica Lange would have beenin there somewhere, so why don't
you tell us a little bit aboutwhat?
First of all, I want to ask youwhat exactly is the Midnight
Express?
Brad Shreve (15:45):
The Midnight Express is escaping from prisons
Most particularly.
I don't know if that's a commonusage, but it was definitely
used in this movie for thatparticular jail.
It's what they called it theMidnight Express.
Tony Maietta (15:57):
Yeah, that's right .
What is the film MidnightExpress about?
What's the plot synopsis?
Brad Shreve (16:03):
Young man in the early 70s named Billyy hayes was
boarding a plane.
He was flying from turkey backwhere he'd been on vacation.
He was flying home and he, uh,was foolish enough to strap
hashish quite a bit of hashishon his body, and was going to
board the plane home and thenext thing he knew he was
surrounded by guns and strippedbecause they.
(16:29):
I don't know what happened inreal life, in the movie he was
so obvious nervous wreck.
Tony Maietta (16:34):
Yes.
Brad Shreve (16:34):
Well, we could hear his heartbeat.
Tony Maietta (16:35):
His heartbeat.
Yes, part of the soundtrack.
Brad Shreve (16:37):
Yeah, the whole score in the soundtrack is just
amazing because, boy, it makesyour heart beat.
And so he ends up in a Turkishprison and it's not pleasant in
any way, shape or form.
It's dirty and people arebeaten, not treated well.
He is sentenced to four yearsand the prosecuting attorney is
(16:57):
not happy with that.
So just before his four yearsis over, the court decides no,
we're going to make it a lifesentence.
Clip (17:04):
Right.
Brad Shreve (17:05):
And that's when Billy says I got it.
Well, that's when Billy says Igot to get out of here and his
girlfriend convinces him that'sthe case.
Tony Maietta (17:12):
Right, well, he, they.
The prosecutor wasn't happythat it went.
He.
He wanted to charge him withsmuggling, which was a life
sentence, and he was chargedwith possession, and then they
changed it.
He was almost.
He had 53 days left and I thinkit's 53 days, yeah 53.
He's called in the court andthey're like no, we've changed
your sentence, it's to alifetime.
So I mean this is a.
(17:32):
I mean, yeah, his breakdown isphenomenal One of the amazing
things about Brad Davis.
So I'll give a littlebackground about how it all came
about.
This all started with PeterGuber.
Now Peter Guber is a bigproducer.
He's still alive today.
He was a former head of Columbia.
During his reign in Columbiathey did things like the Last
(17:53):
Picture Show, taxi Driver, theLast Detail, so he did some big
movies.
Later he teamed up with JohnPeters and did the original, the
first Batman, not the one withAdam West, Batman the movie with
Michael Keaton and JackNicholson.
He also produced Rain man.
So he had read an article byBilly Hayes in a Long Island
newspaper that talked about hisexperiences and his eventual
(18:16):
escape from this Turkish prisonin the early 70s.
He had not written the book yet.
This was a series of articlesand he was really intrigued by
this premise.
So he tracked down Billy Hayes.
In England he acquired the filmrights and he also acquired a
young screenwriter who had never.
This was his very firstcommissioned screenplay.
(18:38):
And who was that screenwriter?
Brad?
Brad Shreve (18:42):
This guy I don't know if anybody's going to know
his name.
I think it's something likeOliver Stone.
Is that it Oliver Rock, oliver,something like.
Clip (18:47):
Oliver Stone, yeah, something like that.
Brad Shreve (18:47):
Is that it Oliver Rock.
Tony Maietta (18:48):
Oliver Stone, oliver Stone Stone, not Patsy
Stone, oliver Stone.
Brad Shreve (18:51):
Hey, if he was on the Flintstones he wouldn't have
to change his name.
Tony Maietta (18:54):
So yeah, he, it's true, no-transcript.
So Stone worked with Hayes in ahotel room.
(19:20):
He met with him in a hotel roomin New York City for a week and
then he went to London to workon the script and he said he was
put in the producer, thedirector I'm sorry, the director
Alan Parker's office in a backroom and it was kind of like
working.
It was very Dickensian.
He felt a little bit like BobCratchit working on the script.
But apparently the first draftwas so impressive to everybody,
(19:44):
everybody said it was a pageturner, this first draft.
They loved it so much andthat's when they decided we're
going to make this film.
Now, columbia the studio thatwas going to produce this film,
which Goober had been the headof for a while, so he had a
relationship with Columbia theythought the film was very
anxiety-producing.
According to Goober, they triedto persuade him not to make it,
(20:06):
so he actually had to use theprofits he made from his
previous film, the Deep, ascollateral for any losses
against Midnight Express.
Now, the budget of MidnightExpress.
Do you know what the budget was, brad?
Brad Shreve (20:20):
Yes, and I've heard people refer to it as an indie
film because of the situation,even though technically it was
not an indie film.
Tony Maietta (20:28):
It was $2.3 million, $2.3 million and Guber
says the catering budget for afilm today is more than it costs
to make this film.
And this film grossed ha ha,columbia this well.
I should be happy.
This film grossed $35 millionin 1978.
So that is a pretty impressivereturn on your investment.
Brad Shreve (20:51):
Yeah, I'd say that they turned out pretty well.
Tony Maietta (20:55):
As I said, Guber hired Alan Parker to direct.
Parker had only really done hisone big movie before.
This was Bugsy Malone, which isa gangster film, a musical
gangster film featuring children.
Brad Shreve (21:10):
And it's a god-awful film.
Tony Maietta (21:13):
It's not a good movie, but they saw something in
it.
Look, I got to be honest withyou.
I am not a huge Alan Parker fan.
I mean, he also did MississippiBurning, a movie I respect.
He did Evita, which has somemoments.
Brad Shreve (21:26):
He did.
Tony Maietta (21:27):
Fame.
I'm not a big Alan Parker fan.
However, I do admire, obviously, his artistry and his
determination to get this filmmade and the finished product.
But yeah, he's.
Brad Shreve (21:40):
I absolutely loved Fame.
I adored Fame.
I can't tell you how many timesI watched it, but I also
haven't seen it since the yearit came out, and I doubt I would
feel the same today.
Tony Maietta (21:48):
Yeah it's sometimes, yeah, things change.
I like Fame, but it's not.
He's not one of my.
Oh my God.
He's not a Sidney Lumet to me,you know.
He's not a Roman Polanski to me, he's a very good director.
He is a very good director.
No shade please to Alan Parker.
I'm just saying in my book, notmy favorite, but he really
(22:09):
achieved an amazing thing withthis film.
Brad Shreve (22:11):
As we said before, the studio wanted Richard Gere
to play the part of Billy whichI can't imagine, because great
actor, but he's awfully prettyand maybe he could have pulled
it off.
I know, was he dropped out, butthat was one of the concerns
they had was that he was tooright but he was hot, hot, hot,
hot, hot at this that he was yeshe had just done, uh, he had
(22:34):
just done blood brothers and Ihe was just about to do looking
for mr goodbar.
Tony Maietta (22:39):
He just had done looking for mr goodbar said
that's 77, so this is 78, so hewas hot.
But gear did what many youngactors who were suddenly hot
frequently do or did in the 70she refused to read, he would
only take meetings.
And this did not sit well withAlan Parker.
(23:00):
It didn't sit well with BarbraStreisand in the 80s when she
wanted him for Yentl either, butthat's another story.
So the meetings began well, buthis refusal to read and his
endless questions really beganto grated on Parker and he
finally agreed to read.
But Parker said it wasperfunctory.
So he started seeing otheractors and among the actors he
(23:21):
saw were Timothy Bottoms, dennisQuaid which is kind of
interesting, and we'll get tothat later and Brad Davis.
Now Davis, as we said, had onlyreally done Sybil and he was
kind of an unknown quantity butParker really loved.
He was really, really pushingfor Davis.
In fact the studio wanted Gereand Parker wanted Davis and they
(23:44):
went back and forth and backand forth and then finally the
studio said, no, we're doingRichard Gere.
So they actually had a meetingwith Davis and told him he
didn't get the part, and theproducer Marshall said he felt
so bad he watched him walk away.
And then a month later he wentto London and there was Brad
Davis getting his wardrobefittings because Gere dropped
(24:04):
out.
So there you go, film, film.
Brad Shreve (24:05):
That's film history for you granted, brad davis was
not a star in any way.
He was not well known at all.
He may have been known offbroadway, but that was about it,
the fact that you had richardgear, who thought he was top of
the heap at that point andrefused to even read, and then
you have this handsome,vulnerable, talented man who ran
(24:26):
five miles for his Amazing.
Yeah, there's justice in that.
Tony Maietta (24:33):
There is justice in it.
There's justice in it, yeah.
Also cast in this film is JohnHurt.
Now, not John Hurd and notWilliam Hurt.
John Hurt, the elephant man.
I'm a human being, john Hurt,and I have a funny John Hurt
story.
But first of all, before I dothat, did you ever?
You probably didn't do thisbecause you weren't an actor.
(24:55):
You didn't go to performingarts college.
But there's a great tonguetwister.
There's a fun tongue twister weused to do which I actually did
a bit before we startedrecording and it is John Heard.
William Hurt, john Hurt.
Wait a minute, let me get thatright.
(25:17):
John Heard, William Hurt, JohnHurt.
Brad Shreve (25:22):
I don't know if I could do that.
I don't think I would rememberit well.
Tony Maietta (25:26):
John Heard, william Hurt, john Hurt, john
Hurt, william Hurt, john Hurt,john Hurt, william Hurt, john
Hurt.
There you go, I got it together.
I had to get the rhythm of itVery good.
It's a little bit of a tonguetwister, anyway.
So, yeah, so not William Hurt.
John Hurt and I have a friend,this is my see ricardo.
(25:53):
When she gets aroundcelebrities we call her a movie
star murderer because there havebeen deaths after there have
been run-ins with this girl.
So anyway, we were.
It's a long time ago, we werein new york, we were to play and
, uh, william hurt was there.
He was in the audience.
After the play he came out andall these people were
surrounding him getting hisautograph.
And she says to me who's thatthere was?
Why are those going on there?
Brad Shreve (26:06):
And I said it's William Hurt.
Tony Maietta (26:08):
She's like, oh my God, I love him, we have to get
his autograph.
So we go up with our playbillsand we're like, could you sign
it?
And she says to him Mr Hurt, Iloved you at Midnight Express.
And that's when you just slowlyback away.
Hoping the subway stop isreally close by, so anyway.
(26:29):
John Hurt yes, he is a Britishactor.
He was the only one to get anAcademy Award nomination for
this role.
He plays the role of Max inthis film.
Brad Shreve (26:43):
I'm going to give one of the very few uh
complaints I had about this filmokay I think he did a great job
emotionally and everything.
I couldn't understand half ofwhat he was saying really,
because of the way.
The way his character was justkind of and it could have been
my sound system that may havebeen it because of the way his
character was just almost I'mtrying to think of how do you
explain talk like he was justworn out and exhausted, but he
(27:06):
was very philosophical as well.
He was high all the time.
He was high all the time, mostdefinitely His character's high,
yeah, it made it hard for me,so I missed a lot of what he had
to say.
In fact, sometimes I had torewind it and put it on closed
caption.
Tony Maietta (27:32):
For people who don't know who John Hurt was, as
I just said, he was also theElephant man.
Famously, he played theElephant man, although I mean,
he's the Elephant man, so you'renot going to go.
Oh, that looks like John Hurt.
He's very eccentric and what'sfunny is that he didn't bathe
for most of the 53 days offilming in order to get into the
reality of the character of Max, also get into the body odor of
Max.
Talk about method acting of MaxAlso get into the body odor of
Max.
Talk about method acting andJohn Hurt was actually impressed
(27:53):
with how eccentric Brad Daviswas.
That's how eccentric Brad Daviswas.
He would do push-ups before thescene and apparently he always
had to pee in a bucket and hewould pee forever in the scene
before he did anything.
I mean he was really gettinginto the mind of Billy and you
can see it.
I mean he's living that part.
That part is exhausting.
And he also.
(28:14):
There was the scene with thegirlfriend where he's been in
the sanitarium now for a whileand she comes to visit him.
He was so nervous about it thathe got some what they call
French courage, ie some cognac,and he had a couple drinks of
cognac to kind of just relaxhimself.
And then there was a cameraproblem and they drank more
(28:36):
cognac and more cognac.
So by the time they came tofilm the scene he couldn't
really keep his head up, butthey were on a tight schedule.
So if you notice in that scenehe's kind of like at a 45 degree
angle, but it works.
It works for the scene.
Brad Shreve (28:53):
It does work.
Alan Parker said by the end ofthe film that Davis had become
Billy and he was actuallyconcerned about how deeply he
did, but at the same time heliked that he could use that
yeah of course he was a reallyinteresting character, brad
Davis, he really was.
Tony Maietta (29:12):
So John Hurt came in, actually came into his
meeting with Parker with hissketch a pencil sketch of Max,
of who he thought Max was andwho Max ended up being.
On the screen is very close tothat sketch, with the glasses
and just his sinewy body, andyou know it, know it's.
Look, he's in a turkish prisonand he has a cat in the middle.
I saw that cat, I went, thatcat.
(29:33):
well, you know that cat's agoner because anytime yeah come
on, he's in a turkish prison, um, but he's amazing.
He is amazing in it, he's, heis truly, truly amazing in this
film.
Uh, he was nominated, as I said, supporting actor christopher
walken won that year, but, butmy God, what an incredible
performance.
What an incredible performanceboth of them.
And who's the third one in thattriumvirate of leading men in
(29:56):
Midnight Express, brad?
Brad Shreve (29:57):
Well, there's also a fourth, but the third I'm sure
you're talking about is RandyQuaid.
Tony Maietta (30:01):
Randy Quaid, randy Quaid, I forgot it was Randy
Quaid and I'm like God he lookslike Randy Quaid.
But I have this idea of RandyQuaid from the vacation movies,
you know, and I forget that whenRandy Quaid was younger he was
actually not a bad-looking guy.
I mean, he didn't look like hisbrother, God knows.
But that's also.
What's interesting is that hisbrother, Dennis, was up for the
(30:22):
part of Billy.
So had Dennis Quaid gotten therole, it'd be these two brothers
playing total strangers.
Brad Shreve (30:29):
But remember Randy was also in what's Up Doc.
Tony Maietta (30:31):
He was in what's Up, doc?
Well, he was a Peter.
Peter Bogdanovich found RandyQuaid when he was in Texas
filming the Last Picture Showand he brought him to Hollywood.
So he was a Bogdanovich baby,but he's wonderful in this.
I forgot what a good good actorRandy Quaid is, maybe because
he became such a nut job, butyou forget.
He's a really, really goodactor and he is wonderful in
(30:55):
this film.
He's wonderful in this film.
Brad Shreve (30:57):
He really was.
You talk about feeling the painthat Billy went through his
character Jimmy good God, all ofthem, john Hurt the emotions in
this film were exhausting.
Tony Maietta (31:13):
Yeah, they are exhausting.
They are exhausting.
Yeah, I got to say you know,this is one of those movies
where I'm like I don't love thismovie.
It's hard for me to say I don'tlove this movie, that's okay.
You don't have to love movies.
You can appreciate them.
I appreciate them, I appreciatethem, but I'm actually
absolutely kind of certain thatI probably won't watch this
movie for another 30 years,because it is emotionally
(31:34):
draining, it is exhausting.
I had to stop it halfway andthen come back and watch it
again.
Um, because I find it so.
It's harrowing.
I mean you, this is thebrilliant thing about Brad
Davis's performance is that henot only becomes Billy, you
become Billy.
Yes, you identify with him sodeeply he's like Mary Pickford
(31:54):
reaching out to you.
You know you relate to him onsuch a deep, deep level that
these things are harrowing toyou to watch, because you know
it ain't going to get better.
It's just not going to getbetter, he's got to get out of
there.
Brad Shreve (32:08):
Yeah, and the scenes that are violent and
disgusting.
I know some of the audiencemembers found it very disgusting
.
They aren't just gross, though.
They're painful.
Tony Maietta (32:19):
Emotionally painful yeah.
Brad Shreve (32:20):
Because you just feel the hurt, the anger, the
helplessness.
More than anything, you feelthe helplessness that Billy had
Definitely definitely All hopewas gone, all hope was gone.
Tony Maietta (32:33):
When his father comes to visit him.
Oh my God, it's just.
I mean, can you imagine sayingyour parent coming to you and
you're in a Turkish prison afteryou've just done the stupidest
thing in the world trying tosmuggle these drugs in?
Stupid, stupid.
Not only that, but who knowswhat his future's going to be?
And you're saying goodbye toyour father and that last look
(32:55):
he gives him oh my God, it'sgut-wrenching, it's
gut-wrenching Well in the scene.
Brad Shreve (33:01):
I don't know if the man was the—he wasn't the
attorney, because the attorneywas a Turkish man.
Maybe he was a law—the man thatcame with his father and then
came back to tell Billy.
Tony Maietta (33:12):
He's from the embassy.
Brad Shreve (33:13):
He's from the embassy?
He's from the embassy, okay,he's from the embassy.
When he told billy that he hadbeen extended from four years to
a life in prison, that is whenI I brad davis was at his best.
I mean just grabbing that manby his shirt and screaming I'm
53 days, 50, oh god.
I just I mean, yeah, it washeartbreaking.
Tony Maietta (33:35):
And then he gets sent to the asylum and they walk
the wheel.
That was my first.
That was my first knowledge ofthis film was I had friends who
would say, walk the wheel, walkthe.
I'm like what are you quoting?
And then I watched it.
It was like, oh okay, yes, walkthe wheel, walk the wheel.
Brad Shreve (33:50):
So, as we said, the movie was Well, tell people
what walk the wheel is.
Oh, okay, because they may notremember.
Tony Maietta (33:55):
Walk the I just assumed they knew.
So Billy is in an asylum forthe criminally insane.
He looks like he's never goingto get out and at a certain
point in the day they allcongregate together and walk.
They walk to the right Veryimportant.
They walk to the right, aroundthis very large pillar in a
group, and they just keepwalking and they walk the wheel,
(34:18):
walk the wheel, and they keepwalking in a circle, in a circle
, over and over again.
And it's very important.
You walk to the right becauseright is correct, left is wrong,
left is communism.
You walk to the right, um, andso it's a very, it's a very
interesting scene.
So when, at the point whenbilly um is it after his, he
(34:38):
sees his fiance and she saysyou've got to get out of here.
You've got to get out of here.
Brad Shreve (34:42):
That he goes back and he starts to-.
Tony Maietta (34:44):
Yes, because that's why he changes direction,
he starts to walk to the leftand everybody's stopping him.
You can't walk that way, youhave to.
Because she says to him youhave to get out of here, you're
dying in here.
And he is, he's catatonic.
Now it's been five years.
He's catatonic in this asylumand she's urging him to you know
(35:05):
, you've got to get out of hereany way you can.
And she gives him a scrapbook,a photo album which has money in
the back so he can get out andget to Greece and get out of
there.
And that's when he starts towake up a little bit and he
starts to walk at the oppositedirection and everybody stops
him.
Everybody's like no, you've gotto walk the other way.
You've got to walk the otherway Because they're all
auditrons, they've all beenlobotomized, even not physically
(35:26):
, but mentally.
Brad Shreve (35:28):
And he stops taking the meds, Because this is a
psych ward with prisoners andmainly they just kept them
drugged so they didn't have todeal with them.
Tony Maietta (35:40):
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
I mean it is a horrific,horrific idea.
It's horrific.
I mean it makes me nervous justto think about it.
You know it.
Just it's yeah, it's just theworst, the worst idea.
It's just terrible.
It's yeah, it's just the worst,the worst idea.
It's just terrible, it'sterrible.
So what happens with thecharacter?
(36:01):
So his girlfriend comes andurges him to get out.
So there has been a sadisticanimal who's been in charge of
the prison and his name isHamadou, played by the actor
Paul L Smith, and he isincredibly violent.
He's the one who beat him.
They like to beat you in thebottom of your feet in this
movie.
I didn't remember that and Iwas like why?
(36:23):
That must be very painful.
I guess that's why they do it.
Very violent, very scary man andhe bribes him part of the money
that his girlfriend gave himand he bribes him part of the
money that his girlfriend gavehim uh, in the photo album and
he takes him out of the asyluminto he thinks he's going to.
He starts to take him toanother room and he's going to
(36:44):
rape him and at that momentBilly pushes him back and he
very, very satisfying deathscene but you wanted him to do
more.
Brad Shreve (36:52):
Yes, yeah, it wasn't satisfying to me, it was
too quick and easy, satisfyingdeath scene, but you wanted them
to do more.
Tony Maietta (36:55):
yes, yeah, it wasn't satisfying to me, it was
too quick and easy, but yeah hebacks up against a uh um a thing
for a coat you know a coat rackthing and it goes in the back
of his brain and kills him.
So billy grabs his gun, grabs auniform from outside the room
they were in, disguises himselfas a guard and escapes.
I mean, in the end it's theeasiest escape in the world.
Brad Shreve (37:16):
I mean, how it all just together, casually walks
out the door.
Tony Maietta (37:19):
He just casually walks out and then he starts to
run and he runs and he leaps andthat's where the movie ends.
But that's not where the scriptended.
Do you know this?
The script ended, I believe, atthe airport and they did the
still shots and stuff right butthere was a whole, yes, there
was a whole sequence of hisescape, of getting to greece,
you know, and oh, are youtalking about the real story
(37:41):
that happened, or no, in theoriginal, in the screenplay in
oliver stone okay, there wasactually yes, that, that's, very
true um it's more along thelines of what really happened
there's a whole sequence well,when it comes to that final
scene, one of the things that Idon't like about it but I think
it was the right decision at thesame time is it was nothing
(38:02):
like Billy's Escape.
Brad Shreve (38:04):
But, Billy's Escape is a movie in itself.
Clip (38:07):
Right.
Brad Shreve (38:08):
At that point he had been transferred to another
prison.
It was on an island.
He had to swim.
He had to get a dinghy Rightexactly In rough waters, the
rain.
He was dangerous in Greecebecause Greece had such secure
borders.
He had to walk through aminefield which fortunately,
didn't know was a minefield atthe time.
So you know, he lucked out, andthen he was detained in Greece
(38:32):
because they were hoping he hadinformation from Turkey.
That is an amazing story initself, and the studio wasn't
happy.
Tony Maietta (38:40):
Right.
Brad Shreve (38:41):
That.
Parker cut that out Right.
Tony Maietta (38:42):
Well, they didn't even film it.
They didn't even film it, right?
He said he knew.
Do you know who was the head ofColumbia at this time, by any
chance?
We just talked about him DavidBiegelman Again.
Brad Shreve (38:54):
This season has been.
I couldn't remember his name,that was a guess.
Tony Maietta (38:56):
Three mentions of David Beigelman, of Leopold and
Loeb, judy Garland's manager.
Now he was running Columbia, atleast until he was fired for
embezzlement.
David Beigelman, he said, justgo ahead and shoot it, we don't
have to use it.
And you know, and Goober knew,and Parker knew that no, if we
(39:16):
shoot it you're going to use it,we're not stupid here.
And Parker felt that the heartof the story was Billy's
experiences in the prison.
To change the texture of thefilm at the end and make it an
action adventure film of himescaping wouldn't have been true
to the previous 90 minutes thatwe just watched.
So it was a very smart decision.
And you're right, there arestill photos of him arriving
(39:37):
with his family at the very end.
It's interesting they did thatwith Brad Davis and they didn't
do it with real Billy Hayes, Ithink.
But anyway, that would havebeen interesting.
Brad Shreve (39:46):
That would have been interesting.
Tony Maietta (39:49):
But yeah, so the film ends with him just running
and then doing a leap in the airwhich is kind of which is a I?
I agree with them.
I think that's the perfectending because we don't need
this added thing of him you know, in Greece trying to get out.
Brad Shreve (40:01):
As I said, it bothered me because it wasn't
close to the truth.
But I do agree with one reasonParker felt it was good.
He said it would change thetone of the movie too much
because they would have movedhim from that horrible prison to
an island where there's waterand blue skies and it would have
been almost an entirelydifferent film.
(40:22):
Certainly the tone would havebeen gone.
And then, like you said, thenhim escaping is an action
adventure film, A veryinteresting one.
I would like to see thatportrayed.
But it is not this story.
This is a prison story.
Tony Maietta (40:35):
Right, no, exactly Exactly.
Brad Shreve (40:37):
A horrific one.
Tony Maietta (40:38):
The film was finished and they made the
unusual decision of having itsfirst screening at Cannes, which
is really interesting.
I mean, it's like they'rethrowing all the marbles on the
table because the studio didn'tbelieve in this film.
They're like you know what it'snot going to have any audience
at all.
Let's just throw it at Khan,and because of what you talked
(40:58):
about earlier and because of thetreatment of the Turkish people
and the very bad light thisputs Turkey in, there were
protests at Khan the day of thescreening, but all that did was
create a buzz at the film, andthe film, the first screening,
was packed and the audience gaveit a standing ovation, and you
(41:18):
know, and that that controversyabout the Turkish uh, the
Turkish controversy, though, wasvery prevalent in Europe.
In fact, I don't know if youyou read this, but this movie
did not show in Turkey until thenineties.
Brad Shreve (41:28):
Yeah, and I uh Spain, or I think people in
France, were very upset about ityes.
Though once they startedplaying it, it ran in a theater
for six years.
Clip (41:38):
Yeah, I know.
So there you go.
Brad Shreve (41:39):
I thought that was it, but yeah, the Turkish people
were offended.
It actually damagedrelationships between the United
States and Turkey and,unfortunately, turkish tourism
took a nosedive.
Tony Maietta (41:53):
Oh really Wow, straight down.
Brad Shreve (41:53):
Yeah, really Like straight down.
Yeah, it killed their tourismindustry for a while.
Tony Maietta (41:57):
Isn't that amazing , what a film can do.
Brad Shreve (41:59):
Well, I would watch that film.
I didn't know anything aboutTurkey at the time I watched
that.
I'm like hell.
No, I'm not going to Turkey.
Tony Maietta (42:05):
I really never had a desire to go to Turkey.
But yeah, well, I'm not goingto smuggle drugs from Turkey.
I'll tell you right now.
Well, that's for sure.
Yes, I got nervous coming backfrom London when I went into a
store to buy some aspirin andI'm like, can I take this on the
plane?
I'm going to say I meanstore-bought, store-bought,
perfectly safe.
But the controversy with theTurks did prevent the film, they
(42:27):
said, from winning the Palmed'Or at Cannes.
But it didn't matter, becauseit opened the United States very
soft, very soft, opening only ahandful of theaters.
But the amazing thing was wasthat it grew.
It kept growing week by week,by week, word of mouth, critical
praise until, like we said, itearned over $30 million on a
(42:48):
budget of how much Brad?
3.2?
, 2.3.
, 2.3.
That's pretty amazing, prettyamazing.
Brad Shreve (42:55):
Yes.
Tony Maietta (42:56):
And it was nominated for six Oscars.
It was nominated for Best Film,Best Director, Best Supporting
Actor, Screenplay Based onAnother Source, Editing and
Score, and it won for Screenplayand Score, the very first fully
synthesized movie score.
Brad Shreve (43:12):
And Brad Davis did not win an Oscar.
He wasn't even nominated.
No, he wasn't even nominated,but he did win a Golden.
Globe yes, it was, for I don'tknow what the term they use
basically the best new actor.
Yeah, newcomer, and that was atleast well-deserved.
I would have liked to have seenhim nominated in the Academy,
but at least he got that.
Tony Maietta (43:31):
No, he wasn't nominated.
No, this, this was the year ofcoming home, so John Voight won.
There were some goodperformances that year.
I mean, warren Beatty wasnominated for Heaven Can Wait.
I love Heaven Can Wait.
Garrett Yusey for Buddy HollyStory, de Niro was for the Deer
Hunter and Laurence Olivier forBoys from Brazil.
So those are some big, bighitters.
So, considering this is yourfirst time out, I would have
(43:54):
loved to have seen him get anOscar nomination.
I really would.
But again, you know, it's kindof like with ordinary people.
Who are you going to bump here?
You know all of these areincredible performances.
Brad Shreve (44:04):
Absolutely.
And since you mentioned them,let's talk about the top
grossing films that year.
Clip (44:09):
Please.
Brad Shreve (44:09):
Midnight Express.
Despite how well it did, it wasnumber 15.
Number one was Grease, at $153million, which is no surprise,
so he was up against some prettybig contenders.
Number two was Animal House.
I actually saw Animal Houseprobably that year 14 times.
Tony Maietta (44:28):
I was so obsessed with.
Brad Shreve (44:29):
Animal House and John Belushi.
I saw Grease 14 times.
Well, I saw Grease a lot too.
Jaws 2.
Now there's a sad state ofaffairs.
Jaws 2 was number three.
Heaven Can Wait was number four.
I agree with you, I love thatfilm.
Yeah, number five is sad aswell, which was Every which Way
but Loose oh we've talked aboutthat, yeah.
(44:53):
And to give a frame of reference, to take people back in time.
Other films that year wereDeath on the Nile, which we
already did, superman, halloween, up in Smoke, coma and probably
the film that should have wonthe Oscar Attack of the Killer
Tomatoes.
Clip (45:12):
Oh my God.
Tony Maietta (45:14):
That's so funny.
I remember that movie.
I remember Attack of the KillerTomato funny.
I remember that movie.
I remember Attack of the KillerTomatoes.
Brad Shreve (45:18):
I remember the song puberty, puberty, love, wow,
and I only saw it one time, butit'll never get out of my head.
Before we wrap up, I want totalk a little more about Brad
Davis, please let's do.
He was cast in a film thatbecame a major motion picture a
few years later, the year beforethis film, and that movie was
(45:41):
Rambo and he was cast in it andit didn't happen because
production just fell apart andit didn't come out till 82 with
Stallone.
I am just trying to pictureBrad Davis as Rambo in that
movie.
It would have been a wholedifferent film.
Tony Maietta (45:57):
A very, very sensitive, vulnerable Rambo.
Brad Shreve (46:00):
Yes, how do you make that leap how?
Tony Maietta (46:01):
do you make that leap from Brad Davis to
Sylvester Stallone?
That makes no sense to me atall Money.
No, that's true, that's true,yes.
Brad Shreve (46:13):
I just picture Brad Davis in that moral, and not
only would it have been adifferent movie, I think it
would have been a wonderfulmovie, whereas Rambo was just
Rambo.
Tony Maietta (46:20):
Well, yeah, it was a terrible movie.
It was a terrible movie.
Brad Shreve (46:23):
You know.
Tony Maietta (46:23):
I think that this movie, if anything, it's a
testament to the great talentBrad Davis.
As I said, he left us much tooyoung he was 41, I believe, when
he killed himself, and you knowhe was.
He did have a substance abuseproblem that he dealt with his
entire life.
He was an incredibly talented,gifted man that we lost much,
(46:46):
much too soon to you know, totwo diseases to the disease of
HIV and to the disease of drugaddiction, and it's unfortunate
because his body of work, thoughsmall, is very impactful.
I mean, you've got Sybil,you've got Midnight Express,
you've got the normal heart.
I'd throw Carell in there,because Carell is something to
see.
I'll tell you right now.
Brad Shreve (47:06):
I'm ashamed to say I've never seen it.
Tony Maietta (47:09):
It's something to see.
That's all I'm going to say.
It's something to see.
Brad Shreve (47:14):
I've seen the shots of Brad Davidson and I'll watch
just for that.
Tony Maietta (47:18):
As Halloween.
I went a few years as Carell inthat sailor outfit he wears.
It's a great gay costume.
I'll tell you right now.
Brad Shreve (47:25):
And you mentioned he killed himself, and I want to
talk a little bit about that.
Sure, first, you mentioned hissubstance abuse and his wife
(47:45):
likes to tell a story and Ithink she puts a little humor in
it that at a hollywood party,brad was ripping his shirt off,
crying, okay, who's got thedrugs?
and a big director mutteredthere goes his career.
But as a result he did assistedsuicide.
His wife was beside him and afriend who has remained
unmentioned.
After that happened, she tookon advocating for assisted
suicide as well as support forthose with HIV.
And can we talk a little bitabout how Brad Davis felt about
(48:10):
having HIV in Hollywood?
Tony Maietta (48:12):
Oh well, he didn't let anybody know.
That's how he felt.
Brad Shreve (48:15):
He didn't let anybody know, and he was bitter
about it because he said hecouldn't let anybody know.
Clip (48:19):
No.
Brad Shreve (48:20):
You know he had this disease.
He had a family to support, sohe couldn't tell people about
this thing that was killing himExactly.
How horrible, how horrible isthat?
Yes, yes.
And in the book that he wrotethat his wife released after he
died, he said I make my money inan industry that professes to
care very much about the fightagainst AIDS but in actual fact,
(48:45):
if an actor is even rumored tohave HIV, he gets no support on
an individual basis.
He does not work.
He's right.
He was right.
Tony Maietta (48:55):
He was right, you know.
Brad Shreve (48:58):
Yeah, that's very sad that.
Tony Maietta (49:06):
Hollywood that way .
So, but he did.
He did a lot of advocacy forHIV and AIDS as well during that
time.
Incredible, incredible,incredible spirit gone much too
soon.
Brad Shreve (49:10):
Yes, Yep.
Well, as always, I gotta say,if this is your first or maybe
second time, or you're just newlistening to this show, please
subscribe.
And if you've been listening toit for a while, or even if
you're brand new and you justthink we're fabulous, please
rate and review us on Apple,Spotify or wherever you listen
to this podcast.
Tony Maietta (49:30):
Yeah, I think that sums it up pretty well.
Brad Shreve (49:43):
Well, I know, I just have one more thing left to
say and I don't want to say it,Brad so let's not say goodbye,
let's say John heard Williamhurt, john hurt.
Tony Maietta (49:51):
Go for it, because I can't say that we'll say
goodbye.
Hurt, william hurt, john hurtit.
Clip (49:58):
That's all folks.
Best thing to do is to get your ass out of here.
Yeah, but how?
Catch the Midnight Express.
What's that?
It's not a train, it's prisonword for escape.
(00:23):
Dad, get me out of here.
I promise you, Billy.
You can drift in here and neverknow you're gone.
You can fade so far out and youdon't know where you are
anymore or where anything elseis.
I find loneliness is thephysical pain which hurts all
(00:48):
over.
You can't isolate it in onepart of your body.
The prosecutor objected to yoursentence for possession.
He wanted a smugglingconviction and the high court in
Ankara reviewed it.
High court and anchor reviewedit and there were 35 judges on
(01:09):
the high court.
28 voted for a life sentence.
We notified your dad, what doyou mean?
Billy Live.
Billy Live for what?
For what?
For what?
I have 53 days left.
I have 53 days left.
I have 53 days left.
Billy, you're running out oftime.
(01:30):
If you stay here, you'll die.
Jesus Christ, you've got to getyourself together.
You've got to get out of here.
Tony Maietta (01:44):
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.
Brad Shreve (01:47):
And I'm Brad Shreve , who's just a guy who likes
movies.
Tony Maietta (01:51):
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's
golden age.
We go behind the scenes andshare our opinions too.
Brad Shreve (01:57):
And, of course, being the average guy, my
opinions are the ones thatmatter.
Tony Maietta (02:03):
As does your self-delusion.
Welcome to Going Hollywood.
Brad Shreve (02:08):
Tony, when you were preparing for this episode
watching Midnight Express, didyou find yourself laughing as
hard as I was laughing?
Imdb says it's a dark comedy.
It's uproarious.
Oh, it's hysterical.
Tony Maietta (02:28):
It's up there with Tootsie.
Do they really say that?
Does it really say it's a darkcomedy?
Brad Shreve (02:34):
It says yes, it lists the different types of
film.
It is, and it says, dark comedythe first thing on the list.
Tony Maietta (02:41):
I think Billy Hayes would have some
disagreement with that.
Brad Shreve (02:48):
I don't think he found five years in a Turkish
prison uproariously funny.
I'm sure some sick individual.
Somewhere found a man bitinganother man's tongue off.
Tony Maietta (02:55):
Hysterical IMDb.
Leave it to IMDb, one stepabove Wikipedia, which I ain't
saying much.
We're talking about listener,in case you were wondering.
We are talking about MidnightExpress today, from Columbia in
1978.
And before we go any further,two things Spoiler alert.
We got spoiler alerts in thisone, so turn us off if you
(03:18):
haven't watched Midnight Express.
Second one this is Brad'schoice.
So, brad, you're flying thisplane.
You are flying this plane.
I'm just Helen.
Brad Shreve (03:26):
Hayes stowing away for the ride and winning an
Oscar or Miss Daisy in the back.
Tony Maietta (03:34):
Yeah, that's true, that's true, so yeah, so this
is interesting.
I don't find it comedy.
I I saw.
I saw Midnight Express.
I watched it for this podcast,of course, and I realized that I
hadn't seen it in 30 years.
I saw Midnight Express.
I watched it for this podcast,of course, and I realized that I
hadn't seen it in 30 years.
And after watching it again, Iprobably will wait another 30
years to sit down and watch this.
(03:55):
I'm going to be in the motionpicture home and I'm going to
say, oh, maybe I'll giveMidnight Express another try,
because, wow, it's a tough one,brad, it's a tough one, it's a
tough one, it's a tough one,brad, it's a tough one, it's a
tough one.
Brad Shreve (04:07):
It is a tough one, definitely, and I don't know how
long ago I saw it it may havebeen decades as well.
I just remembered I alwaysthought it was a very powerful
movie.
I always thought it was anextremely well-done movie.
I will admit, brad Davis wasone of my first crushes, so
that's also why it stuck in myhead.
But I just remember it being agreat film and that's why I
(04:28):
never hear anybody talk about it.
So I said let's do it.
Tony Maietta (04:31):
You know Brad Davis.
What a talent, what a kook fromeverything I've read about him
and his process.
What an incredible talent, aman who life was tragically cut
short when he contracted HIV anddied.
Actually, he committed, hecommitted suicide, but you know
(04:53):
he knew he was dying, soeuthanasia, I believe, and.
But what a tragic end to anincredible talent and incredibly
.
This sounds weird, but the onlyreason, the only word that
comes to mind when I think ofBrad Davis, is adorable.
Now, this is a really toughmovie and really the only reason
I can watch this movie is BradDavis, both his performance and
(05:16):
the fact that I find him sotouching and lovable in this
movie, even though he kind ofplays a little bit of an asshole
in this movie.
Even though he kind of plays alittle bit of an asshole in this
movie, what he goes through isso gut wrenching because of Brad
Davis, I feel.
Brad Shreve (05:31):
Yes, To think that he was a new talent.
It wasn't his first.
This was his first big one.
Tony Maietta (05:37):
Oh, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, did you ever see him
in Sybil?
Sybil was, is really hisbreakout.
Sybil, the TV movie with SallyField.
Brad Shreve (05:44):
It has been so long since I saw Sybil.
All I remember is it had SallyField in it.
I don't remember anything elseabout it.
If you think he's adorable.
Tony Maietta (05:51):
Except the story, obviously.
If you think he's adorable inMidnight Express in a Turkish
prison, you should see him.
Sybil, he plays a young man whoplays a clown at children's
parties.
Now that's either creepy oradorable.
Parties Now that's eithercreepy or adorable.
With Brad Davis, it's adorable,and he's in love with Sally
Field one of her personalities.
Brad Shreve (06:09):
He's not sure which .
I'm not sure I want to see it.
I am terrified of clowns,absolutely terrified, and so do
I want to see Brad Davis.
I got to tell you there was afestival in Echo Park one day
and I was riding the subway anda clown got on and he sat right
in front of me and startedcruising me.
It was the most terrifyingmoment of my life.
Tony Maietta (06:36):
You've heard of the day the clown cried.
Brad experienced the day theclown cruised.
Brad Shreve (06:44):
But you know, if it was Brad Davis, I probably
would have said let's go.
Tony Maietta (06:49):
I was going to say .
And Brad Davis was not thefirst choice, he was not the
studio's choice, for sure.
And the studio you know who?
The studio's first choice toplay Billy Hayes was?
Brad Shreve (07:00):
Mr Richard.
Tony Maietta (07:01):
Gere, that's right .
That's right.
And the studio really wantedGere.
And there's some funny storiesabout Gere, that's right.
That's right.
And the studio really wantedGere and there's some funny
stories about Gere which we canget into.
But Gere dropped out and ParkerAlan Parker, who directed this
film really wanted Davis.
He said that Davis's,particularly his courtroom scene
was so gut-wrenching and somoving and he was so vulnerable
that he knew he had the rightactor and he was relieved that
(07:23):
he didn't have to deal withRichard Gere.
Brad Shreve (07:27):
And do you know the story about Brad Davis's first
meeting with them?
Tony Maietta (07:31):
No, tell me about it.
I'd love to hear this.
Brad Shreve (07:33):
He lived in North Hollywood was driving to the
studio, his VW broke down.
Oh yes, I do know this.
He then ran for five milessweaty.
Tony Maietta (07:40):
Oh yes, I do know this.
Brad Shreve (07:41):
He then ran for five miles, sweaty, huffing and
puffing, popped his head in andsaid sorry I'm late and they
were so impressed at howvulnerable he was that it
carried through.
Tony Maietta (07:54):
There are no accidents.
No, no, no.
Now, if something like that hadhappened to me when I was
auditioning, they'd say sorry,get out of here, or would you
have gone.
I think it was two hours late.
Would you even showed up next?
Yeah, I would have.
Yeah, absolutely okay, I wouldhave gone.
Please, any, any port in a stormum you know, it's funny because
that, yeah, he brings such, hebrings such those qualities to
(08:17):
him that we recognize.
You know, and we were talking alittle bit about this earlier
about it is it is june, it ispride month, um, and we kind of
hinted that this was a Pridemovie.
But I think you and I bothagree we were totally wrong
about that.
I was watching this.
I'm like no, I was wrong.
The only way it can be stretchedis the fact that, yes, brad
Davis is a bit of a gay iconbecause of the fact that he
(08:42):
frequently played gay roles Imean, the most notorious of
which, of course, is Carell, theFassbinder film that he did,
which is insane but he alsoplayed Ned in the first
production of the Normal Heart,larry Kramer's play before he
died, and Brad Davis wasbisexual.
Brad Shreve (09:01):
So, yes, there are definitely some, there's some
gay elements to aura, to thebrad davis persona, but I don't
think this film is like is apride film it's a great film,
but it's not a pride film no,after we talked and I I was
thinking about the movie I'mlike you know what we're gonna
have to give the listener anapology because this isn't a
pride film in any way.
(09:22):
I mean, even if the sex scene inthe film was more graphic than
it was, and you know it was likelightning fast and and nothing
more than longing looks in eachother's eyes there's no even if
it was longer, it still wouldnot have been correct for pride,
because just because two menare in prison and need each
other and have sex to kind ofcomfort each other, doesn't mean
(09:46):
they're gay.
Tony Maietta (09:47):
Yeah, and that's not a sex scene.
Anyway, it's a misnomer to callthat a sex scene, it's a don't
have sex scene is what it is.
The memory of that loomed in myhead because when I first saw it
I was, you know, 21, 22.
I'm like, oh my God, becauseBrad Davis is so beautiful and I
(10:09):
remember it clear as day as asex scene.
I was shocked, just as shockedas I think you were.
Well, here's something, here'sa funny thing.
So to me, that sex scene iswhen I was acting and I was
doing job jobs.
One of my favorite job jobs wasat the mythic Video West in.
The one I was at was in StudioCity and it was wonderful, as
you can imagine.
I loved it and we had as youcan also imagine, we had a
pretty healthy adult filmsection.
(10:31):
But there was this one sectionthat was next to the adult film
section, which was for notreally softcore but sensual
films.
There was a company that didthese films called Greenwood
Cooper.
Okay, and these were not sexmovies.
This was not porn, this wassoft, it was the illusion of
porn.
Every you know.
Things were shot, the men wereall gorgeous and they were
(10:53):
glowing and there was steam inthe shot and the shafts of light
highlighting body parts, butyou never really saw anything.
And really bad synthesizedmusic.
That's the scene from midnightexpress.
I'm like this is a greenwoodcooper movie.
This is what this is, because Idon't have sex.
Brad Shreve (11:11):
there's no sex no, there there isn't any sex, but
like it's so alluded to it, Iremember clear as day I would
have sworn that they have sex inthis movie.
Yeah yeah, because I rememberwatching it for the first time
and thinking, oh my god, yeah itwas 1978 or whenever I saw it
it's.
Tony Maietta (11:28):
It's kind of interesting that that uh it has
a reputation and people havethis idea of this, of this sex
scene, and like no, there's nosex in it.
He, you can't even really seeanything.
It's just it's it's soromantically shot.
It really is.
I mean, they're doing yoga andthe steam and the shafts of
light are coming down and theirbodies are glistening with sweat
and you're like, oh my God,that was hot.
(11:49):
Yes, take me to a Turkishprison, but it's just like it
doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen.
Brad Shreve (11:56):
And Lister.
This movie was based on a truestory, and we have to emphasize
the word based.
Yeah, because there was a lotthat was added into this film.
There were location changes,which is kind of normal, and we
can get into the production ofwhy there were character changes
, because, you know, they tookmultiple characters and put them
(12:16):
into one, which is a norm in afilm.
None of those negated as beinga true story.
It's just that they reallyadded some stuff, a lot of
violence, and they cut theromance and the sex because
Billy Hay said, no, I needed him, we needed each other.
It was a long term.
He couldn't say that it waslove, but it was deeply
(12:40):
passionate.
Tony Maietta (12:41):
It was an emotional support.
I mean, think about it.
You're in a Turkish prison, forGod's sake.
No-transcript.
(13:09):
I Remember Mama.
I'm not going to bring up GeorgeStevens here, so relax, Brad,
but we talked about the factthat memory, just by nature of
being memory, of beingsubjective, is not going to be
necessarily gospel truth.
It's somebody's memory, sothat's one removed.
Then you have a screenwriterwho Hayes is talking to and he's
(13:31):
putting his spin anddramatizing it, so it's one
removed there.
So, yeah, so that is why itsays it's based on a true story.
It doesn't say this is a truestory, which is very, very
important.
It was very important.
Do we want to tell a little bitabout the stories about
Midnight Express, brad, and sopeople have an idea about what
we're talking about, since we'vebeen talking all around it.
Brad Shreve (13:51):
Yeah, let me talk about the emotion and then we
can talk about the film.
Billy Hayes one thing thatreally upset him is the way the
Turkish people were portrayed,and I want to get that out right
away.
He said he has a love for theturkish people.
He said that he was not happythe the film portrayed.
It depicted all turks asmonsters and it wasn't the film
(14:15):
that the turkish people deserved.
And well, we can talk more aboutthe repercussions of this film
on the, on turkey, but yeah Iwouldn't get that out, because
that is important that we wepoint out that he's like these
people weren't as evil as theywere in the movie right the
second one is there.
we're going to talk about a lotof these things that were added,
the violence and all that sortof stuff, and he said so much of
(14:37):
this film did not happen.
But what happened?
Was they caught what it feltlike.
They caught the emotions andthe feelings.
So maybe he didn't bite a man'stongue out and spit it out and
covered in blood, but those arethe feelings that he had and I
think that's very important toremember as well.
Tony Maietta (14:59):
It is, and I'm the first person to bitch about
dramatic license versus dramaticlicentiousness, as I call it,
but sometimes you need to dothat.
I think they were.
Also, he was in five differentprisons and they had to condense
it into one.
So yeah, of course, charactersare going to be combined.
There's going to be somelicense taken when you're
telling a dramatic story.
I hate it when they go way offthe path, and they didn't do
(15:23):
that with this, I mean.
Brad Shreve (15:24):
Well, imagine if this was done by Ryan Murphy.
First of all, the sex scenewould have been amazing, but
secondly, it would have been sooff the rails.
Tony Maietta (15:33):
Kathy Bates would have been in there somewhere.
Jessica Lange would have beenin there somewhere, so why don't
you tell us a little bit aboutwhat?
First of all, I want to ask youwhat exactly is the Midnight
Express?
Brad Shreve (15:45):
The Midnight Express is escaping from prisons
Most particularly.
I don't know if that's a commonusage, but it was definitely
used in this movie for thatparticular jail.
It's what they called it theMidnight Express.
Tony Maietta (15:57):
Yeah, that's right .
What is the film MidnightExpress about?
What's the plot synopsis?
Brad Shreve (16:03):
Young man in the early 70s named Billyy hayes was
boarding a plane.
He was flying from turkey backwhere he'd been on vacation.
He was flying home and he, uh,was foolish enough to strap
hashish quite a bit of hashishon his body, and was going to
board the plane home and thenext thing he knew he was
surrounded by guns and strippedbecause they.
(16:29):
I don't know what happened inreal life, in the movie he was
so obvious nervous wreck.
Tony Maietta (16:34):
Yes.
Brad Shreve (16:34):
Well, we could hear his heartbeat.
Tony Maietta (16:35):
His heartbeat.
Yes, part of the soundtrack.
Brad Shreve (16:37):
Yeah, the whole score in the soundtrack is just
amazing because, boy, it makesyour heart beat.
And so he ends up in a Turkishprison and it's not pleasant in
any way, shape or form.
It's dirty and people arebeaten, not treated well.
He is sentenced to four yearsand the prosecuting attorney is
(16:57):
not happy with that.
So just before his four yearsis over, the court decides no,
we're going to make it a lifesentence.
Clip (17:04):
Right.
Brad Shreve (17:05):
And that's when Billy says I got it.
Well, that's when Billy says Igot to get out of here and his
girlfriend convinces him that'sthe case.
Tony Maietta (17:12):
Right, well, he, they.
The prosecutor wasn't happythat it went.
He.
He wanted to charge him withsmuggling, which was a life
sentence, and he was chargedwith possession, and then they
changed it.
He was almost.
He had 53 days left and I thinkit's 53 days, yeah 53.
He's called in the court andthey're like no, we've changed
your sentence, it's to alifetime.
So I mean this is a.
(17:32):
I mean, yeah, his breakdown isphenomenal One of the amazing
things about Brad Davis.
So I'll give a littlebackground about how it all came
about.
This all started with PeterGuber.
Now Peter Guber is a bigproducer.
He's still alive today.
He was a former head of Columbia.
During his reign in Columbiathey did things like the Last
(17:53):
Picture Show, taxi Driver, theLast Detail, so he did some big
movies.
Later he teamed up with JohnPeters and did the original, the
first Batman, not the one withAdam West, Batman the movie with
Michael Keaton and JackNicholson.
He also produced Rain man.
So he had read an article byBilly Hayes in a Long Island
newspaper that talked about hisexperiences and his eventual
(18:16):
escape from this Turkish prisonin the early 70s.
He had not written the book yet.
This was a series of articlesand he was really intrigued by
this premise.
So he tracked down Billy Hayes.
In England he acquired the filmrights and he also acquired a
young screenwriter who had never.
This was his very firstcommissioned screenplay.
(18:38):
And who was that screenwriter?
Brad?
Brad Shreve (18:42):
This guy I don't know if anybody's going to know
his name.
I think it's something likeOliver Stone.
Is that it Oliver Rock, oliver,something like.
Clip (18:47):
Oliver Stone, yeah, something like that.
Brad Shreve (18:47):
Is that it Oliver Rock.
Tony Maietta (18:48):
Oliver Stone, oliver Stone Stone, not Patsy
Stone, oliver Stone.
Brad Shreve (18:51):
Hey, if he was on the Flintstones he wouldn't have
to change his name.
Tony Maietta (18:54):
So yeah, he, it's true, no-transcript.
So Stone worked with Hayes in ahotel room.
(19:20):
He met with him in a hotel roomin New York City for a week and
then he went to London to workon the script and he said he was
put in the producer, thedirector I'm sorry, the director
Alan Parker's office in a backroom and it was kind of like
working.
It was very Dickensian.
He felt a little bit like BobCratchit working on the script.
But apparently the first draftwas so impressive to everybody,
(19:44):
everybody said it was a pageturner, this first draft.
They loved it so much andthat's when they decided we're
going to make this film.
Now, columbia the studio thatwas going to produce this film,
which Goober had been the headof for a while, so he had a
relationship with Columbia theythought the film was very
anxiety-producing.
According to Goober, they triedto persuade him not to make it,
(20:06):
so he actually had to use theprofits he made from his
previous film, the Deep, ascollateral for any losses
against Midnight Express.
Now, the budget of MidnightExpress.
Do you know what the budget was, brad?
Brad Shreve (20:20):
Yes, and I've heard people refer to it as an indie
film because of the situation,even though technically it was
not an indie film.
Tony Maietta (20:28):
It was $2.3 million, $2.3 million and Guber
says the catering budget for afilm today is more than it costs
to make this film.
And this film grossed ha ha,columbia this well.
I should be happy.
This film grossed $35 millionin 1978.
So that is a pretty impressivereturn on your investment.
Brad Shreve (20:51):
Yeah, I'd say that they turned out pretty well.
Tony Maietta (20:55):
As I said, Guber hired Alan Parker to direct.
Parker had only really done hisone big movie before.
This was Bugsy Malone, which isa gangster film, a musical
gangster film featuring children.
Brad Shreve (21:10):
And it's a god-awful film.
Tony Maietta (21:13):
It's not a good movie, but they saw something in
it.
Look, I got to be honest withyou.
I am not a huge Alan Parker fan.
I mean, he also did MississippiBurning, a movie I respect.
He did Evita, which has somemoments.
Brad Shreve (21:26):
He did.
Tony Maietta (21:27):
Fame.
I'm not a big Alan Parker fan.
However, I do admire, obviously, his artistry and his
determination to get this filmmade and the finished product.
But yeah, he's.
Brad Shreve (21:40):
I absolutely loved Fame.
I adored Fame.
I can't tell you how many timesI watched it, but I also
haven't seen it since the yearit came out, and I doubt I would
feel the same today.
Tony Maietta (21:48):
Yeah it's sometimes, yeah, things change.
I like Fame, but it's not.
He's not one of my.
Oh my God.
He's not a Sidney Lumet to me,you know.
He's not a Roman Polanski to me, he's a very good director.
He is a very good director.
No shade please to Alan Parker.
I'm just saying in my book, notmy favorite, but he really
(22:09):
achieved an amazing thing withthis film.
Brad Shreve (22:11):
As we said before, the studio wanted Richard Gere
to play the part of Billy whichI can't imagine, because great
actor, but he's awfully prettyand maybe he could have pulled
it off.
I know, was he dropped out, butthat was one of the concerns
they had was that he was tooright but he was hot, hot, hot,
hot, hot at this that he was yeshe had just done, uh, he had
(22:34):
just done blood brothers and Ihe was just about to do looking
for mr goodbar.
Tony Maietta (22:39):
He just had done looking for mr goodbar said
that's 77, so this is 78, so hewas hot.
But gear did what many youngactors who were suddenly hot
frequently do or did in the 70she refused to read, he would
only take meetings.
And this did not sit well withAlan Parker.
(23:00):
It didn't sit well with BarbraStreisand in the 80s when she
wanted him for Yentl either, butthat's another story.
So the meetings began well, buthis refusal to read and his
endless questions really beganto grated on Parker and he
finally agreed to read.
But Parker said it wasperfunctory.
So he started seeing otheractors and among the actors he
(23:21):
saw were Timothy Bottoms, dennisQuaid which is kind of
interesting, and we'll get tothat later and Brad Davis.
Now Davis, as we said, had onlyreally done Sybil and he was
kind of an unknown quantity butParker really loved.
He was really, really pushingfor Davis.
In fact the studio wanted Gereand Parker wanted Davis and they
(23:44):
went back and forth and backand forth and then finally the
studio said, no, we're doingRichard Gere.
So they actually had a meetingwith Davis and told him he
didn't get the part, and theproducer Marshall said he felt
so bad he watched him walk away.
And then a month later he wentto London and there was Brad
Davis getting his wardrobefittings because Gere dropped
(24:04):
out.
So there you go, film, film.
Brad Shreve (24:05):
That's film history for you granted, brad davis was
not a star in any way.
He was not well known at all.
He may have been known offbroadway, but that was about it,
the fact that you had richardgear, who thought he was top of
the heap at that point andrefused to even read, and then
you have this handsome,vulnerable, talented man who ran
(24:26):
five miles for his Amazing.
Yeah, there's justice in that.
Tony Maietta (24:33):
There is justice in it.
There's justice in it, yeah.
Also cast in this film is JohnHurt.
Now, not John Hurd and notWilliam Hurt.
John Hurt, the elephant man.
I'm a human being, john Hurt,and I have a funny John Hurt
story.
But first of all, before I dothat, did you ever?
You probably didn't do thisbecause you weren't an actor.
(24:55):
You didn't go to performingarts college.
But there's a great tonguetwister.
There's a fun tongue twister weused to do which I actually did
a bit before we startedrecording and it is John Heard.
William Hurt, john Hurt.
Wait a minute, let me get thatright.
(25:17):
John Heard, William Hurt, JohnHurt.
Brad Shreve (25:22):
I don't know if I could do that.
I don't think I would rememberit well.
Tony Maietta (25:26):
John Heard, william Hurt, john Hurt, john
Hurt, william Hurt, john Hurt,john Hurt, william Hurt, john
Hurt.
There you go, I got it together.
I had to get the rhythm of itVery good.
It's a little bit of a tonguetwister, anyway.
So, yeah, so not William Hurt.
John Hurt and I have a friend,this is my see ricardo.
(25:53):
When she gets aroundcelebrities we call her a movie
star murderer because there havebeen deaths after there have
been run-ins with this girl.
So anyway, we were.
It's a long time ago, we werein new york, we were to play and
, uh, william hurt was there.
He was in the audience.
After the play he came out andall these people were
surrounding him getting hisautograph.
And she says to me who's thatthere was?
Why are those going on there?
Brad Shreve (26:06):
And I said it's William Hurt.
Tony Maietta (26:08):
She's like, oh my God, I love him, we have to get
his autograph.
So we go up with our playbillsand we're like, could you sign
it?
And she says to him Mr Hurt, Iloved you at Midnight Express.
And that's when you just slowlyback away.
Hoping the subway stop isreally close by, so anyway.
(26:29):
John Hurt yes, he is a Britishactor.
He was the only one to get anAcademy Award nomination for
this role.
He plays the role of Max inthis film.
Brad Shreve (26:43):
I'm going to give one of the very few uh
complaints I had about this filmokay I think he did a great job
emotionally and everything.
I couldn't understand half ofwhat he was saying really,
because of the way.
The way his character was justkind of and it could have been
my sound system that may havebeen it because of the way his
character was just almost I'mtrying to think of how do you
explain talk like he was justworn out and exhausted, but he
(27:06):
was very philosophical as well.
He was high all the time.
He was high all the time, mostdefinitely His character's high,
yeah, it made it hard for me,so I missed a lot of what he had
to say.
In fact, sometimes I had torewind it and put it on closed
caption.
Tony Maietta (27:32):
For people who don't know who John Hurt was, as
I just said, he was also theElephant man.
Famously, he played theElephant man, although I mean,
he's the Elephant man, so you'renot going to go.
Oh, that looks like John Hurt.
He's very eccentric and what'sfunny is that he didn't bathe
for most of the 53 days offilming in order to get into the
reality of the character of Max, also get into the body odor of
Max.
Talk about method acting of MaxAlso get into the body odor of
Max.
Talk about method acting andJohn Hurt was actually impressed
(27:53):
with how eccentric Brad Daviswas.
That's how eccentric Brad Daviswas.
He would do push-ups before thescene and apparently he always
had to pee in a bucket and hewould pee forever in the scene
before he did anything.
I mean he was really gettinginto the mind of Billy and you
can see it.
I mean he's living that part.
That part is exhausting.
And he also.
(28:14):
There was the scene with thegirlfriend where he's been in
the sanitarium now for a whileand she comes to visit him.
He was so nervous about it thathe got some what they call
French courage, ie some cognac,and he had a couple drinks of
cognac to kind of just relaxhimself.
And then there was a cameraproblem and they drank more
(28:36):
cognac and more cognac.
So by the time they came tofilm the scene he couldn't
really keep his head up, butthey were on a tight schedule.
So if you notice in that scenehe's kind of like at a 45 degree
angle, but it works.
It works for the scene.
Brad Shreve (28:53):
It does work.
Alan Parker said by the end ofthe film that Davis had become
Billy and he was actuallyconcerned about how deeply he
did, but at the same time heliked that he could use that
yeah of course he was a reallyinteresting character, brad
Davis, he really was.
Tony Maietta (29:12):
So John Hurt came in, actually came into his
meeting with Parker with hissketch a pencil sketch of Max,
of who he thought Max was andwho Max ended up being.
On the screen is very close tothat sketch, with the glasses
and just his sinewy body, andyou know it, know it's.
Look, he's in a turkish prisonand he has a cat in the middle.
I saw that cat, I went, thatcat.
(29:33):
well, you know that cat's agoner because anytime yeah come
on, he's in a turkish prison, um, but he's amazing.
He is amazing in it, he's, heis truly, truly amazing in this
film.
Uh, he was nominated, as I said, supporting actor christopher
walken won that year, but, butmy God, what an incredible
performance.
What an incredible performanceboth of them.
And who's the third one in thattriumvirate of leading men in
(29:56):
Midnight Express, brad?
Brad Shreve (29:57):
Well, there's also a fourth, but the third I'm sure
you're talking about is RandyQuaid.
Tony Maietta (30:01):
Randy Quaid, randy Quaid, I forgot it was Randy
Quaid and I'm like God he lookslike Randy Quaid.
But I have this idea of RandyQuaid from the vacation movies,
you know, and I forget that whenRandy Quaid was younger he was
actually not a bad-looking guy.
I mean, he didn't look like hisbrother, God knows.
But that's also.
What's interesting is that hisbrother, Dennis, was up for the
(30:22):
part of Billy.
So had Dennis Quaid gotten therole, it'd be these two brothers
playing total strangers.
Brad Shreve (30:29):
But remember Randy was also in what's Up Doc.
Tony Maietta (30:31):
He was in what's Up, doc?
Well, he was a Peter.
Peter Bogdanovich found RandyQuaid when he was in Texas
filming the Last Picture Showand he brought him to Hollywood.
So he was a Bogdanovich baby,but he's wonderful in this.
I forgot what a good good actorRandy Quaid is, maybe because
he became such a nut job, butyou forget.
He's a really, really goodactor and he is wonderful in
(30:55):
this film.
He's wonderful in this film.
Brad Shreve (30:57):
He really was.
You talk about feeling the painthat Billy went through his
character Jimmy good God, all ofthem, john Hurt the emotions in
this film were exhausting.
Tony Maietta (31:13):
Yeah, they are exhausting.
They are exhausting.
Yeah, I got to say you know,this is one of those movies
where I'm like I don't love thismovie.
It's hard for me to say I don'tlove this movie, that's okay.
You don't have to love movies.
You can appreciate them.
I appreciate them, I appreciatethem, but I'm actually
absolutely kind of certain thatI probably won't watch this
movie for another 30 years,because it is emotionally
(31:34):
draining, it is exhausting.
I had to stop it halfway andthen come back and watch it
again.
Um, because I find it so.
It's harrowing.
I mean you, this is thebrilliant thing about Brad
Davis's performance is that henot only becomes Billy, you
become Billy.
Yes, you identify with him sodeeply he's like Mary Pickford
(31:54):
reaching out to you.
You know you relate to him onsuch a deep, deep level that
these things are harrowing toyou to watch, because you know
it ain't going to get better.
It's just not going to getbetter, he's got to get out of
there.
Brad Shreve (32:08):
Yeah, and the scenes that are violent and
disgusting.
I know some of the audiencemembers found it very disgusting
.
They aren't just gross, though.
They're painful.
Tony Maietta (32:19):
Emotionally painful yeah.
Brad Shreve (32:20):
Because you just feel the hurt, the anger, the
helplessness.
More than anything, you feelthe helplessness that Billy had
Definitely definitely All hopewas gone, all hope was gone.
Tony Maietta (32:33):
When his father comes to visit him.
Oh my God, it's just.
I mean, can you imagine sayingyour parent coming to you and
you're in a Turkish prison afteryou've just done the stupidest
thing in the world trying tosmuggle these drugs in?
Stupid, stupid.
Not only that, but who knowswhat his future's going to be?
And you're saying goodbye toyour father and that last look
(32:55):
he gives him oh my God, it'sgut-wrenching, it's
gut-wrenching Well in the scene.
Brad Shreve (33:01):
I don't know if the man was the—he wasn't the
attorney, because the attorneywas a Turkish man.
Maybe he was a law—the man thatcame with his father and then
came back to tell Billy.
Tony Maietta (33:12):
He's from the embassy.
Brad Shreve (33:13):
He's from the embassy?
He's from the embassy, okay,he's from the embassy.
When he told billy that he hadbeen extended from four years to
a life in prison, that is whenI I brad davis was at his best.
I mean just grabbing that manby his shirt and screaming I'm
53 days, 50, oh god.
I just I mean, yeah, it washeartbreaking.
Tony Maietta (33:35):
And then he gets sent to the asylum and they walk
the wheel.
That was my first.
That was my first knowledge ofthis film was I had friends who
would say, walk the wheel, walkthe.
I'm like what are you quoting?
And then I watched it.
It was like, oh okay, yes, walkthe wheel, walk the wheel.
Brad Shreve (33:50):
So, as we said, the movie was Well, tell people
what walk the wheel is.
Oh, okay, because they may notremember.
Tony Maietta (33:55):
Walk the I just assumed they knew.
So Billy is in an asylum forthe criminally insane.
He looks like he's never goingto get out and at a certain
point in the day they allcongregate together and walk.
They walk to the right Veryimportant.
They walk to the right, aroundthis very large pillar in a
group, and they just keepwalking and they walk the wheel,
(34:18):
walk the wheel, and they keepwalking in a circle, in a circle
, over and over again.
And it's very important.
You walk to the right becauseright is correct, left is wrong,
left is communism.
You walk to the right, um, andso it's a very, it's a very
interesting scene.
So when, at the point whenbilly um is it after his, he
(34:38):
sees his fiance and she saysyou've got to get out of here.
You've got to get out of here.
Brad Shreve (34:42):
That he goes back and he starts to-.
Tony Maietta (34:44):
Yes, because that's why he changes direction,
he starts to walk to the leftand everybody's stopping him.
You can't walk that way, youhave to.
Because she says to him youhave to get out of here, you're
dying in here.
And he is, he's catatonic.
Now it's been five years.
He's catatonic in this asylumand she's urging him to you know
(35:05):
, you've got to get out of hereany way you can.
And she gives him a scrapbook,a photo album which has money in
the back so he can get out andget to Greece and get out of
there.
And that's when he starts towake up a little bit and he
starts to walk at the oppositedirection and everybody stops
him.
Everybody's like no, you've gotto walk the other way.
You've got to walk the otherway Because they're all
auditrons, they've all beenlobotomized, even not physically
(35:26):
, but mentally.
Brad Shreve (35:28):
And he stops taking the meds, Because this is a
psych ward with prisoners andmainly they just kept them
drugged so they didn't have todeal with them.
Tony Maietta (35:40):
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.
I mean it is a horrific,horrific idea.
It's horrific.
I mean it makes me nervous justto think about it.
You know it.
Just it's yeah, it's just theworst, the worst idea.
It's just terrible.
It's yeah, it's just the worst,the worst idea.
It's just terrible, it'sterrible.
So what happens with thecharacter?
(36:01):
So his girlfriend comes andurges him to get out.
So there has been a sadisticanimal who's been in charge of
the prison and his name isHamadou, played by the actor
Paul L Smith, and he isincredibly violent.
He's the one who beat him.
They like to beat you in thebottom of your feet in this
movie.
I didn't remember that and Iwas like why?
(36:23):
That must be very painful.
I guess that's why they do it.
Very violent, very scary man andhe bribes him part of the money
that his girlfriend gave himand he bribes him part of the
money that his girlfriend gavehim uh, in the photo album and
he takes him out of the asyluminto he thinks he's going to.
He starts to take him toanother room and he's going to
(36:44):
rape him and at that momentBilly pushes him back and he
very, very satisfying deathscene but you wanted him to do
more.
Brad Shreve (36:52):
Yes, yeah, it wasn't satisfying to me, it was
too quick and easy, satisfyingdeath scene, but you wanted them
to do more.
Tony Maietta (36:55):
yes, yeah, it wasn't satisfying to me, it was
too quick and easy, but yeah hebacks up against a uh um a thing
for a coat you know a coat rackthing and it goes in the back
of his brain and kills him.
So billy grabs his gun, grabs auniform from outside the room
they were in, disguises himselfas a guard and escapes.
I mean, in the end it's theeasiest escape in the world.
Brad Shreve (37:16):
I mean, how it all just together, casually walks
out the door.
Tony Maietta (37:19):
He just casually walks out and then he starts to
run and he runs and he leaps andthat's where the movie ends.
But that's not where the scriptended.
Do you know this?
The script ended, I believe, atthe airport and they did the
still shots and stuff right butthere was a whole, yes, there
was a whole sequence of hisescape, of getting to greece,
you know, and oh, are youtalking about the real story
(37:41):
that happened, or no, in theoriginal, in the screenplay in
oliver stone okay, there wasactually yes, that, that's, very
true um it's more along thelines of what really happened
there's a whole sequence well,when it comes to that final
scene, one of the things that Idon't like about it but I think
it was the right decision at thesame time is it was nothing
(38:02):
like Billy's Escape.
Brad Shreve (38:04):
But, Billy's Escape is a movie in itself.
Clip (38:07):
Right.
Brad Shreve (38:08):
At that point he had been transferred to another
prison.
It was on an island.
He had to swim.
He had to get a dinghy Rightexactly In rough waters, the
rain.
He was dangerous in Greecebecause Greece had such secure
borders.
He had to walk through aminefield which fortunately,
didn't know was a minefield atthe time.
So you know, he lucked out, andthen he was detained in Greece
(38:32):
because they were hoping he hadinformation from Turkey.
That is an amazing story initself, and the studio wasn't
happy.
Tony Maietta (38:40):
Right.
Brad Shreve (38:41):
That.
Parker cut that out Right.
Tony Maietta (38:42):
Well, they didn't even film it.
They didn't even film it, right?
He said he knew.
Do you know who was the head ofColumbia at this time, by any
chance?
We just talked about him DavidBiegelman Again.
Brad Shreve (38:54):
This season has been.
I couldn't remember his name,that was a guess.
Tony Maietta (38:56):
Three mentions of David Beigelman, of Leopold and
Loeb, judy Garland's manager.
Now he was running Columbia, atleast until he was fired for
embezzlement.
David Beigelman, he said, justgo ahead and shoot it, we don't
have to use it.
And you know, and Goober knew,and Parker knew that no, if we
(39:16):
shoot it you're going to use it,we're not stupid here.
And Parker felt that the heartof the story was Billy's
experiences in the prison.
To change the texture of thefilm at the end and make it an
action adventure film of himescaping wouldn't have been true
to the previous 90 minutes thatwe just watched.
So it was a very smart decision.
And you're right, there arestill photos of him arriving
(39:37):
with his family at the very end.
It's interesting they did thatwith Brad Davis and they didn't
do it with real Billy Hayes, Ithink.
But anyway, that would havebeen interesting.
Brad Shreve (39:46):
That would have been interesting.
Tony Maietta (39:49):
But yeah, so the film ends with him just running
and then doing a leap in the airwhich is kind of which is a I?
I agree with them.
I think that's the perfectending because we don't need
this added thing of him you know, in Greece trying to get out.
Brad Shreve (40:01):
As I said, it bothered me because it wasn't
close to the truth.
But I do agree with one reasonParker felt it was good.
He said it would change thetone of the movie too much
because they would have movedhim from that horrible prison to
an island where there's waterand blue skies and it would have
been almost an entirelydifferent film.
(40:22):
Certainly the tone would havebeen gone.
And then, like you said, thenhim escaping is an action
adventure film, A veryinteresting one.
I would like to see thatportrayed.
But it is not this story.
This is a prison story.
Tony Maietta (40:35):
Right, no, exactly Exactly.
Brad Shreve (40:37):
A horrific one.
Tony Maietta (40:38):
The film was finished and they made the
unusual decision of having itsfirst screening at Cannes, which
is really interesting.
I mean, it's like they'rethrowing all the marbles on the
table because the studio didn'tbelieve in this film.
They're like you know what it'snot going to have any audience
at all.
Let's just throw it at Khan,and because of what you talked
(40:58):
about earlier and because of thetreatment of the Turkish people
and the very bad light thisputs Turkey in, there were
protests at Khan the day of thescreening, but all that did was
create a buzz at the film, andthe film, the first screening,
was packed and the audience gaveit a standing ovation, and you
(41:18):
know, and that that controversyabout the Turkish uh, the
Turkish controversy, though, wasvery prevalent in Europe.
In fact, I don't know if youyou read this, but this movie
did not show in Turkey until thenineties.
Brad Shreve (41:28):
Yeah, and I uh Spain, or I think people in
France, were very upset about ityes.
Though once they startedplaying it, it ran in a theater
for six years.
Clip (41:38):
Yeah, I know.
So there you go.
Brad Shreve (41:39):
I thought that was it, but yeah, the Turkish people
were offended.
It actually damagedrelationships between the United
States and Turkey and,unfortunately, turkish tourism
took a nosedive.
Tony Maietta (41:53):
Oh really Wow, straight down.
Brad Shreve (41:53):
Yeah, really Like straight down.
Yeah, it killed their tourismindustry for a while.
Tony Maietta (41:57):
Isn't that amazing , what a film can do.
Brad Shreve (41:59):
Well, I would watch that film.
I didn't know anything aboutTurkey at the time I watched
that.
I'm like hell.
No, I'm not going to Turkey.
Tony Maietta (42:05):
I really never had a desire to go to Turkey.
But yeah, well, I'm not goingto smuggle drugs from Turkey.
I'll tell you right now.
Well, that's for sure.
Yes, I got nervous coming backfrom London when I went into a
store to buy some aspirin andI'm like, can I take this on the
plane?
I'm going to say I meanstore-bought, store-bought,
perfectly safe.
But the controversy with theTurks did prevent the film, they
(42:27):
said, from winning the Palmed'Or at Cannes.
But it didn't matter, becauseit opened the United States very
soft, very soft, opening only ahandful of theaters.
But the amazing thing was wasthat it grew.
It kept growing week by week,by week, word of mouth, critical
praise until, like we said, itearned over $30 million on a
(42:48):
budget of how much Brad?
3.2?
, 2.3.
, 2.3.
That's pretty amazing, prettyamazing.
Brad Shreve (42:55):
Yes.
Tony Maietta (42:56):
And it was nominated for six Oscars.
It was nominated for Best Film,Best Director, Best Supporting
Actor, Screenplay Based onAnother Source, Editing and
Score, and it won for Screenplayand Score, the very first fully
synthesized movie score.
Brad Shreve (43:12):
And Brad Davis did not win an Oscar.
He wasn't even nominated.
No, he wasn't even nominated,but he did win a Golden.
Globe yes, it was, for I don'tknow what the term they use
basically the best new actor.
Yeah, newcomer, and that was atleast well-deserved.
I would have liked to have seenhim nominated in the Academy,
but at least he got that.
Tony Maietta (43:31):
No, he wasn't nominated.
No, this, this was the year ofcoming home, so John Voight won.
There were some goodperformances that year.
I mean, warren Beatty wasnominated for Heaven Can Wait.
I love Heaven Can Wait.
Garrett Yusey for Buddy HollyStory, de Niro was for the Deer
Hunter and Laurence Olivier forBoys from Brazil.
So those are some big, bighitters.
So, considering this is yourfirst time out, I would have
(43:54):
loved to have seen him get anOscar nomination.
I really would.
But again, you know, it's kindof like with ordinary people.
Who are you going to bump here?
You know all of these areincredible performances.
Brad Shreve (44:04):
Absolutely.
And since you mentioned them,let's talk about the top
grossing films that year.
Clip (44:09):
Please.
Brad Shreve (44:09):
Midnight Express.
Despite how well it did, it wasnumber 15.
Number one was Grease, at $153million, which is no surprise,
so he was up against some prettybig contenders.
Number two was Animal House.
I actually saw Animal Houseprobably that year 14 times.
Tony Maietta (44:28):
I was so obsessed with.
Brad Shreve (44:29):
Animal House and John Belushi.
I saw Grease 14 times.
Well, I saw Grease a lot too.
Jaws 2.
Now there's a sad state ofaffairs.
Jaws 2 was number three.
Heaven Can Wait was number four.
I agree with you, I love thatfilm.
Yeah, number five is sad aswell, which was Every which Way
but Loose oh we've talked aboutthat, yeah.
(44:53):
And to give a frame of reference, to take people back in time.
Other films that year wereDeath on the Nile, which we
already did, superman, halloween, up in Smoke, coma and probably
the film that should have wonthe Oscar Attack of the Killer
Tomatoes.
Clip (45:12):
Oh my God.
Tony Maietta (45:14):
That's so funny.
I remember that movie.
I remember Attack of the KillerTomato funny.
I remember that movie.
I remember Attack of the KillerTomatoes.
Brad Shreve (45:18):
I remember the song puberty, puberty, love, wow,
and I only saw it one time, butit'll never get out of my head.
Before we wrap up, I want totalk a little more about Brad
Davis, please let's do.
He was cast in a film thatbecame a major motion picture a
few years later, the year beforethis film, and that movie was
(45:41):
Rambo and he was cast in it andit didn't happen because
production just fell apart andit didn't come out till 82 with
Stallone.
I am just trying to pictureBrad Davis as Rambo in that
movie.
It would have been a wholedifferent film.
Tony Maietta (45:57):
A very, very sensitive, vulnerable Rambo.
Brad Shreve (46:00):
Yes, how do you make that leap how?
Tony Maietta (46:01):
do you make that leap from Brad Davis to
Sylvester Stallone?
That makes no sense to me atall Money.
No, that's true, that's true,yes.
Brad Shreve (46:13):
I just picture Brad Davis in that moral, and not
only would it have been adifferent movie, I think it
would have been a wonderfulmovie, whereas Rambo was just
Rambo.
Tony Maietta (46:20):
Well, yeah, it was a terrible movie.
It was a terrible movie.
Brad Shreve (46:23):
You know.
Tony Maietta (46:23):
I think that this movie, if anything, it's a
testament to the great talentBrad Davis.
As I said, he left us much tooyoung he was 41, I believe, when
he killed himself, and you knowhe was.
He did have a substance abuseproblem that he dealt with his
entire life.
He was an incredibly talented,gifted man that we lost much,
(46:46):
much too soon to you know, totwo diseases to the disease of
HIV and to the disease of drugaddiction, and it's unfortunate
because his body of work, thoughsmall, is very impactful.
I mean, you've got Sybil,you've got Midnight Express,
you've got the normal heart.
I'd throw Carell in there,because Carell is something to
see.
I'll tell you right now.
Brad Shreve (47:06):
I'm ashamed to say I've never seen it.
Tony Maietta (47:09):
It's something to see.
That's all I'm going to say.
It's something to see.
Brad Shreve (47:14):
I've seen the shots of Brad Davidson and I'll watch
just for that.
Tony Maietta (47:18):
As Halloween.
I went a few years as Carell inthat sailor outfit he wears.
It's a great gay costume.
I'll tell you right now.
Brad Shreve (47:25):
And you mentioned he killed himself, and I want to
talk a little bit about that.
Sure, first, you mentioned hissubstance abuse and his wife
(47:45):
likes to tell a story and Ithink she puts a little humor in
it that at a hollywood party,brad was ripping his shirt off,
crying, okay, who's got thedrugs?
and a big director mutteredthere goes his career.
But as a result he did assistedsuicide.
His wife was beside him and afriend who has remained
unmentioned.
After that happened, she tookon advocating for assisted
suicide as well as support forthose with HIV.
And can we talk a little bitabout how Brad Davis felt about
(48:10):
having HIV in Hollywood?
Tony Maietta (48:12):
Oh well, he didn't let anybody know.
That's how he felt.
Brad Shreve (48:15):
He didn't let anybody know, and he was bitter
about it because he said hecouldn't let anybody know.
Clip (48:19):
No.
Brad Shreve (48:20):
You know he had this disease.
He had a family to support, sohe couldn't tell people about
this thing that was killing himExactly.
How horrible, how horrible isthat?
Yes, yes.
And in the book that he wrotethat his wife released after he
died, he said I make my money inan industry that professes to
care very much about the fightagainst AIDS but in actual fact,
(48:45):
if an actor is even rumored tohave HIV, he gets no support on
an individual basis.
He does not work.
He's right.
He was right.
Tony Maietta (48:55):
He was right, you know.
Brad Shreve (48:58):
Yeah, that's very sad that.
Tony Maietta (49:06):
Hollywood that way .
So, but he did.
He did a lot of advocacy forHIV and AIDS as well during that
time.
Incredible, incredible,incredible spirit gone much too
soon.
Brad Shreve (49:10):
Yes, Yep.
Well, as always, I gotta say,if this is your first or maybe
second time, or you're just newlistening to this show, please
subscribe.
And if you've been listening toit for a while, or even if
you're brand new and you justthink we're fabulous, please
rate and review us on Apple,Spotify or wherever you listen
to this podcast.
Tony Maietta (49:30):
Yeah, I think that sums it up pretty well.
Brad Shreve (49:43):
Well, I know, I just have one more thing left to
say and I don't want to say it,Brad so let's not say goodbye,
let's say John heard Williamhurt, john hurt.
Tony Maietta (49:51):
Go for it, because I can't say that we'll say
goodbye.
Hurt, william hurt, john hurtit.
Clip (49:58):
That's all folks.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.