May 21, 2024 • 39 mins
Your hosts took a trip back to Kevin's childhood hometown, Norwich, N.Y. It was a bittersweet return to a town that has seen it's share of struggles over the past four decades. From long gone establishments like the Copper Kettle and Corner Cigar Store, to new and improved resources like the YMCA, it was a real trip down memory lane for Kevin and his two brothers...
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, I'm Kev- no, I'm not Kevin. What's the line? Hi, I'm Jack.
Hi, I'm Jack. And I'm Kevin. This is good company in the car!
Music.
What did you just say? You're too old to- you're too young- you're too poor to retire?
(00:21):
Too poor to retire, too young to quit, too fat to strip.
Okay, I like it. i was born
ready you sure were i was born at lunchtime yes
my mother my mother and father i believe
everything i hear and most of what i read exactly no no my dad
my my dad used to joke all the time that i was born when they were delivering
(00:43):
lunch uh-huh in the hospital so whenever that's why i'm always hungry because
i was born at lunchtime i was born at like 11 40 something like right at lunchtime
yeah so that's the running joke in my family all right I eat a lot. You know that? You do.
Shut up, you. A town that ends with witch, W-I-C-H.
It's an old Anglo-Saxon term that means a town or a village with extensive artisanal activity.
(01:10):
It later went on to be a place particularly associated with salt production.
Huh. Who knew? By the 11th century in England, the use of witch and place names
had been extended to include areas associated with salt production.
At least nine English towns and cities carry the suffix, although only five
of them tend to be associated with salt.
(01:31):
I thought witch was a very common word. W-I-C-H. It is, and there is a bunch of witches in England.
There's Horwich, and there's Sandwich, one of your favorites. I love sandwiches.
And there's Norwich. Norwich. Norwich, England, a medieval town.
It's a cathedral city, and it's in the county of Norfolk, England.
And it was founded in like what
(01:55):
10 16 or something like that the only
reason i know norwich and norfolk is because there for a while when i was searching
dog breeds there's a dog there's a norwich terrier and a norfolk terrier right
and the breeds are identical except for one of them's ears go up and one of
them's ears fold right oh wow all right well,
(02:16):
useless bit of information norwich england claims
to be the most complete medieval city in the united kingdom it
includes cobble streets blah blah blah in may 2012 norwich
was designated england's first unesco city of literature and one of the uk's
happiest towns now nito comes flying off the record we're here to talk about
(02:37):
my hometown of norwich new york which we went back to.
Bravo thank you thank you uh
we move before you get into the before you
get into it right as a as a unbiased never been there i'm a norwich virgin yeah
i found the town quite cute quaint there's there's a lot of words there unfortunately
(03:03):
i also saw it as very empty right so viewing it from From terms of West Virginia,
it doesn't look like the drugs have hit the place and that people just left.
Right. So it didn't look, not abandoned, that's not the right word,
it didn't look dilapidated, it didn't look worn down, it didn't look worn.
But I thought it was a cute, I thought it was a very lovely little town.
(03:23):
Okay, I mentioned it, I'm not a Facebook person per se, but I mentioned it on
the, if you grew up in Norwich, Facebook group. Got a lot of traction.
We moved there from Olean, New York and Western New York in 1968. 68.
I was five years old. We lived there until 1979 when we left and moved to St. Michael's, Maryland.
And from 68 to 79, I was five to almost 16 years old.
(03:49):
That is the very hearty meat of your childhood.
There was no part of Norwich we didn't know. Quick background on.
The first log cabin was built in 1788 by Colonel William Monroe.
He was a drummer boy in the revolution.
The central community of Norwich itself, this is for a lot of people are going
(04:09):
to listen to this, didn't know this Norwich people.
The town in 1816 by incorporating as a village and later becoming the city in 1914.
So you'll hear the town of Norwich name checked a lot, which is much bigger
part of the county. It ended up being parts of Frisalia and New Berlin and Columbus
and all those other places.
(04:29):
In 1806, Norwich gave up territory to form the towns of Frisalia, Plymouth, and Preston.
More of Norwich was lost in 1807 to form parts of the towns of New Berlin and
Columbus. Not New Berlin, New Berlin.
It wasn't that big. The central community of Norwich set itself off from the
town in 1816 by incorporating as a village the village of Norwich and later
(04:51):
becoming the city of Norwich in 1914.
And so I hadn't been back since 1979. I mentioned it in the delightful,
if you grew up in Norwich, you remember, we went back to your hometown of Parkersburg,
West Virginia, three years ago.
And it was, uh, it was fun. Now it's my turn to walk down memory lane with Norwich.
Yeah. The, the eclipse was coming and I thought that was a good reason to head back up.
(05:17):
And I asked my brothers, Mike and Tim, my older brothers who live there with
me, if If they wanted to go up for the weekend to see the solar eclipse,
Norwich was not going to be in the path of totality.
But I found that the city of Auburn, New York, which was only about 90 minutes
to the northwest, would be.
And we just drive there for the day. So we're like, let's go.
(05:38):
It was a nice encapsulated weekend. Yeah, it was.
You know, of the eclipse and homecoming, so to speak.
So what we did, now I haven't been back there since. I went back with my friend
Bobby Keenan in 1981 for a long weekend. but that the town seemed,
it was exactly the same, right?
Yeah. It sounds like that. Don't change. So, so hadn't been back. My brother's.
(05:59):
Either of them hadn't been back since 79. So I mentioned, you know,
when we left, there was the Woolworths was there.
We had four grocery stores. We had the Grand Union. We had the Great American.
We had an A&P and we had another one in the North Shopping Center and all of
the, there was a shopping center at the North end of town and one at the South
(06:19):
end of town, both running, both full, all of the shops were full.
There was a Big M, there was a James Jamesway, there was the North Shopping
Center, there was a Carl's Pharmacy, and there was a Carvel,
and the Copper Kettle Candy Store next to the- Now you're talking about downtown,
which was a very active downtown.
Downtown, the Pudgy's Pizza, the YMCA was there.
(06:40):
The Guernsey Memorial Library was in full swing, Gibson Elementary in the north
side of town was kindergarten through sixth grade, Perry Brown,
Never the Twain Shall Meet was on the south side of town, kindergarten.
Garden we had at gibson we had the spring
frolick and it's very frolick spring frolick
was our our spring festival and then perry brown had the fall festival there
(07:02):
was a maypole and uh no there wasn't there wasn't but there was all the like
you know old-timey carnivory things all of those things were going on so we're
heading up with friday let's see friday april 5th you came up to rockville We dropped off the dog,
the puss, with Connie up at the Elks. He got to go to daycare.
(07:23):
Yeah, because she watches him. And in hindsight, dropping him off Saturday morning
in Montgomery Village probably would have saved us time.
Because as it was, we left, we used Waze, and we're on 270 North.
Kevin plays GPS wars. I do. He pits them against one another.
(07:43):
Waze versus Google Maps. Just pick one.
I chose poorly Oh, it wasn't bad And Waze got us off 270 right into a construction
site If we'd gone to drop him off We probably would have just been rerouted
We made our way up So we stopped in Scranton, Pennsylvania,
Jack's best friend Frank's older sister Terry And we stopped in Scranton Which has its own troubles.
(08:10):
Scranton is a town Hit hard by multiple things Yeah.
And it looks a little rough around the edges. Yeah.
However, I had a lovely lunch with Terry and Kevin got to sit there and listen
to the two of us yammer on.
That was fine. It was quite lovely and it was so good to see her and of course, you know.
Went to the grocery store next door and it was unheated.
(08:31):
He came back and said, they didn't turn the heat on. Terry's like,
I'm not really surprised.
So, and they had a weirdly small selection of soda.
There was like Pepsi Coke, Diet Coke, Diet Pepsi, Dr.
Pepper, root beer, and then a couple generics. And that was it.
It was a huge grocery store. Well. Huge.
Those places are just struggling to stay open. They were. You know they are.
(08:55):
My brothers, Tim and Mike, were driving up from Virginia Beach.
So they started out before us, and now they've gotten ahead of us.
So as we're heading out, and I'm driving up, and I'm seeing Binghamton for the
first time in 40 years. and I'm remembering, I was telling Jack about the Tri-Cities.
There's Johnson City, Endicott, and Binghamton. The Tri-Cities.
Oof. And when you grew up in Norwich, it's like, you know, you're going down
(09:18):
to the big city. And I took karate lessons at the Y and Washington Roo.
And Heidi Ochiai, our main dojo, was in Johnson City. Johnson City? Yeah.
Endicott. It was down there anyway. But that was the last time I was there.
Just going down there was like going to a big city. And there was the Oakdale Mall, right?
My mom didn't drive. So we would regularly go for months, if not years,
(09:40):
not leaving Norwich. We would go.
My dad would drive us to either Rhode Island or Allegheny, New York in the summer.
But other than that, we went nowhere.
Now, to paint a picture so that you understand Norwich completely,
and I'm not being sarcastic or mean, Mayberry.
A very small town, a town square with all your government buildings and everything,
(10:03):
some restaurants and stuff. Bedford Falls.
Perfect. Bedford Falls from It's a Wonderful Life. It's a small town. It's encapsulated.
There's all kinds of things in the town, but once you go outside the city limits,
there's really nothing.
It's farmland. There was a writer who worked for my dad's paper,
a sports writer, who just started his career after he went to Colgate.
He got out, worked for nothing for my dad, writing sports.
(10:26):
He went on to be a pretty accomplished writer for Sports Illustrated,
and he wrote an article about his time in Norwich, and he likened it to being
in Bedford Falls. Perfect.
Perfect. Yeah, so came up, saw Binghamton. I was like, wow, it looks different, right?
And as we're coming up Route 12, getting kind of excited, and we got to Shenango Forks.
(10:46):
Shenango Forks never looked good. Sorry, Shenango Forks.
But boy, I was expecting it to be kind of rough, but Shenango Forks, man, you delivered.
Livered and the weather was just as bad
as i thought it would be it was it was probably in the
upper 40s lower 50s it was threatening that
kind of weird spring like cold rain but then you could see sun it was like irish
(11:09):
weather and my brother only ever said when he describes norwich he was at gray
well it's gray it was gray it was so my brothers are ahead of us and and you're
saying they're not going to be able to check in without you i called up and
i lean at the front desk of the Red Roof Inn,
was like, oh, it's got the same last name, is that you? Right,
you're good. No, they can check in.
(11:30):
So now the Red Roof Inn, I have some history with because it was a travel lodge
when it opened in 1969. I remember it was a big deal.
Then it was a Howard Johnson's. A Howard Johnson's. And then it became something
else. And now it's a Red Roof.
But my friend Peter Balzer's dad managed that hotel.
So we used to be able to go swim in the indoor pool. And see.
(11:52):
Which was closed when we were there.
Anyway, so we're coming up. I go through Oxford for the first time.
We used to do a walk-a-thon where you could go from Norwich to Oxford and walk back.
And you got out however many people would pledge. I'll give you 10 cents a mile.
Yeah, you pledged by the mile, yeah. And it was 20 miles down and back.
10 miles down, 10 miles back.
My mom would never let me do it for some reason. Tom Cook got you to do it.
(12:16):
Your mother was a little protective. She was. Bobby Keenan got to do it,
but not me. Bobby Keenan got you.
Mom, Bobby Keenan's getting to do it. No, for some reason I wasn't able to do
that. I could have a paper route where I could, you know, I was a pack animal
carrying 40 pounds of newspapers over a mountain, but I couldn't walk to Oxford.
So I saw Oxford and I was like, oh. And then as we start coming into town,
(12:36):
I remembered when we left, the farthest southern part of Norwich was the South
Mall where the Big N was and the bowling alley and a couple other shops.
But there were, we passed Fred's Inn on the left, which I think, or it was Fred's?
Yeah, Fred's? It was on the left. They had a restaurant, and they had rooms,
and I think that was just there, but on the right, there was a... You said it had moved.
(12:59):
It was closer in and it had moved out. It was all the way in.
It was where the hands-in was, right as you come to town.
But then on the left, there was a garden center, and there was a Walmart,
right? There was a Walmart on the right.
Walmart's kill small town. That came in, and then finally I saw the Burger King
that used to be a Carol's.
Music.
(13:40):
And the price is right It was Carol's Restaurant.
You said that that shopping center on the south side, that was a very vibrant shopping center.
The whole town was. The whole town was. And that shopping center was,
I don't think it was... There was a... Maybe one store. Where the big end was is now a supply store.
Then there was a Chinese restaurant next to it. All teeny little Chinese restaurant.
(14:01):
Then nothing. The rest of it was empty. The bowling alley was closed.
The bowling alley was closed, which shocked me. The only operating bowling alley
in Norwich right now is in the basement of the Elks. There you go.
Four lanes. So we came in. I was like, the weather looks right.
The shopping center doesn't look right. We made it to the hotel.
But strangely familiar, the NBT Bank temperature sign on the left as you come in was there.
(14:23):
And you could call that up 334. I forget what it was. It would give you the
time and the temperature. Oh, that's funny. Time and temperature. Yeah.
And the Colonial was there. And if I didn't look too closely, it doesn't look bad.
The shops didn't have stuff in it. But I was so like, I'm home. I'm home.
Mom, I'm home. You know, right? And he ended up, you know, like coming back.
He's running down the street in Bedford Falls. All the stores are empty.
(14:46):
So we checked into the Red Roof Inn and it was fine.
Decided to get a bite to eat the YMCA. It's the new YMCA and the old one's gone.
But the Methodist church is right there with the giant spire.
I'm like, I remember you.
He was talking to the spire. We ate at a, we walked down North Broad and it
was completely familiar.
And I felt like I'd been there yesterday.
(15:08):
And we went down, we went to an, the first place we went to was like a biker
bar, which is kind of where near the Bluebird used to be. And I go,
what the hell is going on?
And then the other storefronts were gone. And I was like, this is,
that was my first, like, what's going on? Because there was a bank that was
gone where the Bluebird is closed. And it was a couple other things.
There was a thing called something, a Chinese buffet. That had been closed for months.
(15:32):
Well, think about it. The time frame you've been gone, think how many things
have opened and closed. Oh, my God.
And I know COVID hit that place hard. So we ended up going to an Irish bar down
almost to Nina's. And it was fun.
But it was just, I think that was an ice cream parlor when I was a kid.
And we made our way back. And where the bank used to be or whatever was a bodega.
It was labeled a bodega. I bought a six pack of beer.
(15:54):
We went back to the, went back to Red Roof and called it a night.
And the next morning, bright and early, 10 o'clock, opened the window up,
looked out. There's the Methodist church. There's the Y.
I went over, just walked into the new Y, looked around. It was like, wow, this is an upgrade.
Me and my brothers, we got in the car and Jack, we drove up through the neighborhood
(16:14):
and up to Hillview Drive, which is where we spent, where we lived when we first
got there. And when we lived at 4 Hillview Drive, we lived at 15 Hillview Drive.
And in between, we lived at Borden Avenue down by the Great American Warehouse,
down by the railroad tracks.
So, you know, wow, here we took some pictures, walked around a little bit.
And then we went down to the diner at the bottom of Sunset next to where the
(16:37):
Tasty Freeze is on Route 12 North, North Brock, as you're leaving.
And the Tasty Freeze and the Pizza Hut. And then right there, there's a diner.
I think it's just the Norwich Diner. so we had
breakfast and they didn't have american cheese i made
friends with the waitress oh you again she said
oh you again while we were eating i went next door to the tasty freeze because
(17:00):
in the back of the tasty freeze they used to have a dining room they had a jukebox
i was like oh i wonder what's there went back and it's just now a dining room
and it was just like the almost like the diner we were in and then i went around
front where you could get ice cream and it was all kind
of banged up for the winter and she's like, oh, we're just getting ready to open up.
We're waiting for a new machine. I was like, oh, thank God. This is still a thing.
(17:20):
Because, and we were going to go, we want to go to the pizza because we wanted to go.
Last time I was there, they had the salad bar. You've got a pitcher of Coke,
you know, and again, thousand Island dressing to stress this in our,
in my youth, in my youth, everything was walkable.
Yeah. So from where he grew up, his house to this, to this diner,
(17:42):
to the downtown, we're talking like a mile, a mile and a half,
maybe it's all walkable.
And he was like, yeah, I used to walk this. I used to ride my bike.
I delivered papers all over this hill.
He sure did. And once we were done with that, we drove back and we went to Gibson school.
And we walked around and we bumped into a young woman with her children.
(18:05):
They were over where the kindergarten side of Gibson is. That's where he went to, just to clarify.
That's where they all went to elementary. We went to elementary.
And she told us about how Norwich actually qualified for some of the most fundamental
grants. because the county is in such poor shape that they get social security grants.
I didn't see it. I saw the homes that run along the edge of the playground all
(18:27):
look very, I used to know who lived in all of them.
And we went around to the other side and Jack and Tim stayed in the car.
My brother Mike and I walked out across the playing fields behind Gibson all the way to the edge.
Up to the back of the houses that you grew up in. Right.
And then to look down where the Little League field is. And as we're coming
back, there are two kids in the backyards of our former neighbors,
(18:50):
not the TDs, but the, I think the Casamentos.
And the one kid is maybe four years old and the other kid is probably eight or nine.
And the little kid's saying something to Mike and I as we're making our way
back to the car. He's probably a hundred yards away.
And he's, Mike, I think he's talking to us and we keep walking and he's slowly
making his way towards us.
(19:11):
And then oh man but i'm like i think
he's calling us old man oh man i'm gonna throw this
rock at you and i i was like
mike i i i think we're in trouble and and
and he's he's he's got a rock in his hand it's the size of a softball or whatever
it's weighs as much as he does and i don't know and his older brother comes
over sorry sorry it was the funniest damn thing got back in the car so We also
(19:38):
stood on a mountain of snow.
We got a picture of snow. There was still snow on the ground.
There was a big mound of snow. Big. There was a mound of snow,
so we're standing on it like mountaineers.
And so then we went to St.
Paul's, which was the—St. Paul's was the Irish church in town when I was there, and then St.
Bartholomew's was the Italian church on that side. So the small town could keep,
(20:00):
could prosper with multiple Catholic churches, because there was an Irish Catholic
church and an Italian Catholic church.
Back in the day, the population of Norway, which was probably another 3,000
or 4,000 strong, I mentioned, I think, somewhere...
At five o'clock i would wait for the the the whistle to
blow down at the pharmacy the pharmacy employed martin
(20:22):
norwich eaton pharmaceuticals employed
a big chunk of the town they were a pharmaceutical
manufacturing company we had a lot of phds in
norwich a lot of mds in norwich associated with the plant norwich
had kind of a lopsided top heavy intelligentsia there
was more there's a lot of money in norwich because of that so
there was a horn there and there was one at the the shoe factory yeah name that
(20:44):
there was see that's part of the problem with norwich is
all these businesses closed and left so kevin
name the big companies that were there when you
were a little kid yeah it was the pharmacy the pharmacy there
was a shoe factory there was champion oh yeah champion clothing yeah and and
the grocery stores the hospital was one down by the airport that that's what
(21:04):
that's eating pharmaceuticals that was more norwich and um all of those left
And what was the place that your house was in front of? The one that burned
down that's no longer there.
That was the great American warehouses. So it was funny cause we're driving
through there and Mike's like, yeah, I was sneaking cigarettes behind that barbecue
right there. And I'm like, oh my God.
Yes, we drove by. And so we went to St.
(21:26):
Paul's, St. Paul's had a major renovation in the nineties and they switched it completely around.
I didn't recognize it. And then.
Went back to the hotel. Jack saw in the hotel elevator that the Norwich Theater
Company Incorporated was putting on their version of Clue at 3.30 that afternoon. Now, imagine.
(21:49):
Now, listen, people. You know I got a thing for Clue. And they're putting on
Clue at the local theater.
I was like, listen, you guys. If nothing else is going on, I would really like to go see this.
And Kevin was like, I'll go. go i sure did so
we went it's in the junior high school has was
(22:10):
closed and turned into senior living and the
junior high has been attached to this high school now so this was in the old
junior high school auditorium it was beautiful you know that old school was
probably you know the the turn of the century kind of thing where it looked
like you could tell it was like very big in the 50s the 50s and 60s so it was
very beautiful the insert the interior of the theater was beautiful yeah Yeah,
(22:32):
the experience was really fun. They did their best.
Oh, I had a ball. I had an absolute ball. It was fun, fun, fun.
So while we were in there, my brothers just went back to the room.
They drove around for a little bit, and they went and saw where the old newspaper.
My dad had bought the Evening Sun in 69, and then he built a new facility for it over on Eaton Avenue.
And then it's now been moved back over kind of to the location where the original
(22:55):
building was, kind of near the Y.
They went and did their thing. We did that. Got back to the hotel.
I wanted to go to the library, the Guernsey Memorial Library,
because I wanted to pull up, I used to get books out of there like mad,
and I was sure if I could remember a couple titles about Japan,
that I would be able to pull it up and look in and see my signature from 1975.
Oh, that's funny. The whole upper part of the library is closed off with duct
(23:20):
tape and liners because they're renovating it, and all of those books are in
the basement in boxes, and the people at the library are like,
we don't know where we're going to get to it.
Because, you know, that kind of stuff runs out of money quickly.
Yeah, and earlier in the day, we went by, as we drove around,
I got them all over the map.
We drove around, after we were up on Hillview Drive and Sunset Drive,
we then went down to the Kurt Beyer pool.
(23:41):
We went to the pool. The Kurt Beyer pool, which was closed for years.
The Kurt Beyer pool, that was the, when you were a teenager or a kid,
you went to the Kurt Beyer pool in the summer every day.
And that was closed for years. I couldn't believe it. You're like, our lips were blue.
We didn't care. I remember going there, and I was a swimming assistant,
but I took lessons there when I was like eight.
(24:02):
Was Micah a lifeguard there? No, he wasn't.
But I remember getting there and now in hindsight, they would tell you the water
temperature on the chalkboard and it would regularly be 71, 69.
And when you're eight years old and you weigh 19 pounds, it was brutal.
But anyway, we were there. They redid the kiddie pool.
(24:22):
The little bridge across the creek, the Shenango, Candice Walker Creek is gone.
That was a big one. but then we drove back by we went by doyle's which
is now doyle's was one of those neighborhood supermarkets or markets
mini markets it's now a flop house it's
like people now i well maybe not a
flop out it's now apartments and then and we
(24:43):
drove past several of them and none of them were still we
went by welch's welch's is gone rexford street market
is now the train museum of course driving briggs veterinary
is gone that's just a private resident driving through you know
driving through the town and between the three of them oh that
was such and such oh that was where sonso lived oh that's
where such and such oh that's where we got our christmas tree right oh that's where
(25:04):
this oh where the nina's pizza was closed because they were
taking their spring break and it was reopening the day we
left sorry kevin got to miss nina's so
got back from the play it was a bus at
the library mike and i decide to go for a
walk so mike and i are just going to take a walk from
the red roof in and just again to stress
(25:24):
this is not a very large when a
walk and they encompassed a lot of they they
actually took in a lot but it wasn't that far we went across the street right
we went across the street one past the park on east main down the side street
mike's like that and the name of the bar was i forget he's like that's the first
bar i ever had a beer and we went in there we came out the back we walked down
(25:49):
the street now the elks there's the
Elks Lodge, and I'm an Elk, so we went in, we got a beer at the Elks,
then walked down and I showed them the Grand Union.
The new Grand Union, which is gigantic.
There used to be a Grand Union in the North Mall. That was gone.
I don't know if it's the same company, but it's the only real,
grocery store in norwich now what was the name of
(26:09):
the guy you went to school with who seemed to own all the gas stations
marabito oh and and that was
another thing because marabito apparently marabito fuel was a thing even before
but coming up i was like i thought is that tim marabito each of you knew a different
marabito we all knew the marabitos it was a big name and i had to share that
you know when you're in school you're all geniuses so tim marabito had the genius
(26:33):
nickname of tim marabifoot.
And so and i remember the day
in fifth grade when one geniuses
i think it was his first name was david i believe
it was him he finally someone came up with hey kevin mcwoman and i was like
damn it somebody finally realized my last name is man and you could put a woman
(26:56):
so i got mcwoman and that didn't last very long my friend tom cook quickly redubbed
me ed in high school, Fred McMahon.
When Kevin told me that, I was like, I don't get it, Ed McMahon.
I felt very stupid. It was funny.
And for those of you who are younger, Ed McMahon was the sidekick to Johnny
Carson on the backstreet. Johnny Carson, right.
We did that. We went back and got you guys. We went and got the dinner at the
(27:17):
place right on, what is it called?
It was, it's a bar, bar restaurant thing right there. We ate in bars the whole
time. It's right next to where Pudgy's Pizza was.
Pudgy's Pizza! And then that night we drove around some more,
went back up to Sunset, And then we tried to go up to where the rock quarry
was way up on West Hill. There was a rock quarry.
(27:38):
And back in the day, you could, there was a trail you could get, get up to it on your bike.
But now it's, it's, there's like a proper county facilitated path up to it.
And we missed it. I wanted to kind of wanted to go up and see it,
but we got up there and Kevin takes off hawking and Mike's like, the sign says six miles.
Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I was reading that right. because there was
(28:00):
kind of a legend that there was a monster that lived up there. Just nonsense.
You didn't tell me about that. Yeah. So then we made it back down and the next day we got up
We got breakfast at the diner right on East Main.
I forget what it was called. It was a different one. That's where we met the
girl who went to, the woman who went to high school with, and she went to- Yeah,
she's like, I went there occasionally.
(28:20):
Mike's like, what year did you- Mike's like, two years to graduate. I said occasionally.
Yeah. That was funny. She was, she was funny. So then we headed out.
We had a really cool drive.
We left, we went out through South Plymouth, past where the Little League field is, and ice rink.
Drove out through South Plymouth, and then just took us up past Oneonta.
Really cool drive we got to
(28:41):
skinny atlas and the crowds were building skinny atlas
by the way looks super cool now we're preparing for the eclipse so
we left norwich to head north to
auburn for the right this is what is it called
full concentration what's it called total totality totality
right so we went to auburn for the totality of the
eclipse this is monday april that was
(29:02):
eight yeah okay right yes because we
got up there saturday sunday was fun day then we did
that and then we came back on tuesday okay so we got there
we drove through skinny atlas which is on the finger lake super cool i
want to go back we got to auburn auburn was a much bigger place than i thought
they've got a huge penitentiary there got a great lunch at a brew pub again
(29:22):
we had a lot of bar and like you know because you know bars now aren't necessarily
bar bars but you know a lot of bar pubs we ate in one that's where we ate most
of our meals at which was fine by me but it was funny It was a good meal.
Right on time, the weather was kind of okay, and you could make out the sun,
but about 20 minutes before the eclipse was supposed to start,
good old upstate New York weather rolled in, and by the time it started, there were teeny.
(29:48):
Teeny, wafer-thin glimpses of the sun through the clouds. Now, he is complaining.
Now, I'm going to say we were given the suggestion to go to a top of a parking
garage. Yeah, we did. Which was a really good idea.
It was a great idea. So we went to the top of this parking garage with a small gathering of people.
We had those glasses and all that stuff it
was so obscured by the clouds because it was
(30:09):
so just because the cloud cover was so heavy it
actually made you could just look right at it look at it so it was actually
i actually got a lot more out of it because i was able to just look i didn't
have to deal with all that other stuff and there was that one that one uh woman
that got behind us was played totally clips of the heart which was perfect but
having never experienced anything
(30:30):
like that if i have i just don't remember you have you
have it no no but i mean like i have to
at some point in my 55 years been in the path of an eclipse no no okay i don't
know they're not listen don't don't dumb shame me i know so at any rate so we're
standing on the top of this parking garage and it was so interesting because
(30:51):
you could see the dark coming and then it was.
Kind of it was kind of comfortable and then it
got really cold yeah and then it got dark and
then all the lights the lights came on and then it the sun
came back out and it was really in a weird
way it was like that was really super bizarre the way your mind tries to figure
(31:12):
it out it was pretty neat we did that and and you know we we ticked that box
and then we headed back and drove back along lake skinny atlas and got back
to norwich and then jack and michael i now Now, what did we do then?
We got back from, we drove up to, we got back and we drove up to Hillview Drive,
and then we went up on top of the hill where there was new development.
(31:35):
There is a Mormon church all the way up there. All of this happened after we left.
Growth in norwich came to a screeching halt within a
decade of us leaving we left kind of at the height in 79 80
81 norwich was still humming by the
early 90s norwich was shrinking because kevin was pointing
out my paper route this was the last house there was nothing past here i would
(31:57):
have had another 70 houses what was the deal with the cornfield oh we hid this
we hid that there me and sean hayes had a bb gun i was allowed to have a bb
gun we kept the bb gun hidden in the cornfield In the cornfield.
We would build bonfires in the cornfield. We had a lean-to up in the woods up by the cornfield.
Steven Shonoski next door had a minibike. We rode the minibike in the cornfield.
(32:19):
And it was funny because Mike was saying the same thing with his friends.
So both of them. The cornfield, because it was just at the top of Hillview Drive at the end of Sunset.
Massive cornfield. And then woods. So just shit went on up there.
There were like tree houses. And now it's all a suburb. It's all houses and
stuff. It was developed more. But again, it's kind of stopped.
(32:40):
It was a lot of driving around. And where the Copper Kettle was is a store selling
locally made Chenango County goods.
I think I saw a few of those. There were a couple of the stores that were downtown
that were still open, but they were closed for the weekend or whatever.
But the majority, I'd probably say 80% of the stores were empty.
A lot of the storefronts were empty.
Frere's is gone, and Fishman's is gone, and the Woolworth's is gone.
(33:03):
But again, it didn't look... Doug Sub's is gone. But they were empty,
but they didn't... They weren't neglected, they weren't derelict.
Perfect, it did not look derelict.
Apparently in the upper stories of a lot of those buildings are squatters.
Squatters? Yeah, and they're illegally staying in those apartments and people want to kind of like
to revive them or revitalize them are
(33:24):
having trouble getting them out well and some more
than a few back in the day norwich had a real
vibrant vibe to it pedestrian wise so a lot of just kind of like meandering
like people not doing stuff kind of thing you know what i mean more reminiscent
of an inner city than the norwich i knew right you know well but i mean that's
with time changes and of course such a huge period of time has passed since
(33:48):
you were there correct it's going going to be very dramatic.
Whereas to compare it to me in Parkersburg, I moved away, but I still went home
every two or three months for years and years.
So the, the change didn't seem that big incremental.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a long time and, but driving, but driving down.
North broad street, just coming back.
(34:09):
I just was struck by how absolutely straight North and South broad streets are.
They're so wide. I feel like Napoleon designed them
in case there's an an uprising you can shoot cannons down them
and you can literally see from the mcdonald's what
was it all the italian renaissance not italian renaissance italian
all the houses revival italian revival all the italian revival architecture
(34:31):
those square houses with the square things on the top there is very very very
specific right type and there were lots of houses there and of course kevin
saying you know there was a lot of italian immigrants there so that was.
The fancy houses right and we found like uh spano's
and our our old you know restaurants and things
(34:52):
and drove around the high school and you know
just just came across places and every corner had a memory we went to the may
dole hammer factory museum which is right next to the shenango county what was
the museum you guys hid it you snuck into and you got to talk to the story the
the hammer museum okay well yeah it was yeah it was closed they just went in just little things like
(35:15):
that in the the golden age nursing home that
our friend mark hollifield managed it's just too many memories
to bring back you know our house on bourdon avenue and and my
paper route on hillview and eric street and i didn't have hillview i actually
had eric half of eric and sunset and then sunset court kennison walked a creek
and you know the hospital the hospital's been given a major upgrade we used
(35:37):
to just hang out in the hospital cafeteria because we were bored that's I actually understand that.
And the first thing you said to me, though, when we drove in and we drove through
the main square, the town square in front of the.
You know courthouse and you're like that's where santa claus
was in winter and i go you had santa
claus out in the outside here that little
(36:00):
that little small and not pavilion what is that called a little uh goda into
his gazebo they would turn the gazebo into his but they made it weather resistant
to the winter because the way he described winters it was like every Every winter
was like Siberia. It kind of was.
And, you know, there was the Sears store, the Sears fulfillment store,
(36:21):
and there was the green stamp store right there.
We did that. I remember mom collected the stamp.
Gas stations were gone. Just predictable. So if you didn't pay too much attention
as you drove down south broad, it didn't look too bad.
It was only if you kind of like looked for.
It didn't look bad at all. It didn't look that bad. But if you look.
Truly, truly hope that there's some sort of a renaissance there because the
(36:43):
towns there, The infrastructure, so to speak, the streets, the buildings, everything's there.
Some sort of artisanal, you know. Yeah.
Chobani has brought a lot of wealth back into the county over in New Berlin
because Chobani yogurt and that over there, there's some industry,
but it's just not enough of a ripple effect for Norwich.
Of all the towns up there, I mean, Shenango is in bad shape,
(37:05):
but it has the infrastructure to become something anew.
It said it didn't look bad. It wasn't. And yeah, despite the Facebook got some
rough looking area, you know, there were a lot of naysayers on Facebook and
I get what some of them were saying.
A lot of them were saying, look for the charm and a lot of people on the receiving
end of maybe some of the rougher aspects of it.
(37:26):
But yeah, if you're listening to this because of the Facebook or whatever,
don't be afraid to go back to Norwich.
You're going to be, you're not going to be happy, but you're not going to be shocked.
It's going to be in between and you're going to find memories around every corner.
Just like I did. I everywhere I'm like I know that
I remember that I wiped my bike out there I remember
we threw rocks at a kid I remember I had
(37:48):
one of my first fistfights here you know like I only had three and and we had
a lean-to there we this is that and so it's that kind of a place for me and
I had a really good time it's not nearly as exotic as Parkersburg West Virginia
you know But it was my home for 11 years,
so yeah, Norv can go home again.
(38:10):
You can, yay! Thanks for listening, you guys.
Music.
Hi, I'm Kev- no, I'm not Kevin. What's the line? Hi, I'm Jack.
Hi, I'm Jack. And I'm Kevin. This is good company in the car!
Music.
What did you just say? You're too old to- you're too young- you're too poor to retire?
(00:21):
Too poor to retire, too young to quit, too fat to strip.
Okay, I like it. i was born
ready you sure were i was born at lunchtime yes
my mother my mother and father i believe
everything i hear and most of what i read exactly no no my dad
my my dad used to joke all the time that i was born when they were delivering
(00:43):
lunch uh-huh in the hospital so whenever that's why i'm always hungry because
i was born at lunchtime i was born at like 11 40 something like right at lunchtime
yeah so that's the running joke in my family all right I eat a lot. You know that? You do.
Shut up, you. A town that ends with witch, W-I-C-H.
It's an old Anglo-Saxon term that means a town or a village with extensive artisanal activity.
(01:10):
It later went on to be a place particularly associated with salt production.
Huh. Who knew? By the 11th century in England, the use of witch and place names
had been extended to include areas associated with salt production.
At least nine English towns and cities carry the suffix, although only five
of them tend to be associated with salt.
(01:31):
I thought witch was a very common word. W-I-C-H. It is, and there is a bunch of witches in England.
There's Horwich, and there's Sandwich, one of your favorites. I love sandwiches.
And there's Norwich. Norwich. Norwich, England, a medieval town.
It's a cathedral city, and it's in the county of Norfolk, England.
And it was founded in like what
(01:55):
10 16 or something like that the only
reason i know norwich and norfolk is because there for a while when i was searching
dog breeds there's a dog there's a norwich terrier and a norfolk terrier right
and the breeds are identical except for one of them's ears go up and one of
them's ears fold right oh wow all right well,
(02:16):
useless bit of information norwich england claims
to be the most complete medieval city in the united kingdom it
includes cobble streets blah blah blah in may 2012 norwich
was designated england's first unesco city of literature and one of the uk's
happiest towns now nito comes flying off the record we're here to talk about
(02:37):
my hometown of norwich new york which we went back to.
Bravo thank you thank you uh
we move before you get into the before you
get into it right as a as a unbiased never been there i'm a norwich virgin yeah
i found the town quite cute quaint there's there's a lot of words there unfortunately
(03:03):
i also saw it as very empty right so viewing it from From terms of West Virginia,
it doesn't look like the drugs have hit the place and that people just left.
Right. So it didn't look, not abandoned, that's not the right word,
it didn't look dilapidated, it didn't look worn down, it didn't look worn.
But I thought it was a cute, I thought it was a very lovely little town.
(03:23):
Okay, I mentioned it, I'm not a Facebook person per se, but I mentioned it on
the, if you grew up in Norwich, Facebook group. Got a lot of traction.
We moved there from Olean, New York and Western New York in 1968. 68.
I was five years old. We lived there until 1979 when we left and moved to St. Michael's, Maryland.
And from 68 to 79, I was five to almost 16 years old.
(03:49):
That is the very hearty meat of your childhood.
There was no part of Norwich we didn't know. Quick background on.
The first log cabin was built in 1788 by Colonel William Monroe.
He was a drummer boy in the revolution.
The central community of Norwich itself, this is for a lot of people are going
(04:09):
to listen to this, didn't know this Norwich people.
The town in 1816 by incorporating as a village and later becoming the city in 1914.
So you'll hear the town of Norwich name checked a lot, which is much bigger
part of the county. It ended up being parts of Frisalia and New Berlin and Columbus
and all those other places.
(04:29):
In 1806, Norwich gave up territory to form the towns of Frisalia, Plymouth, and Preston.
More of Norwich was lost in 1807 to form parts of the towns of New Berlin and
Columbus. Not New Berlin, New Berlin.
It wasn't that big. The central community of Norwich set itself off from the
town in 1816 by incorporating as a village the village of Norwich and later
(04:51):
becoming the city of Norwich in 1914.
And so I hadn't been back since 1979. I mentioned it in the delightful,
if you grew up in Norwich, you remember, we went back to your hometown of Parkersburg,
West Virginia, three years ago.
And it was, uh, it was fun. Now it's my turn to walk down memory lane with Norwich.
Yeah. The, the eclipse was coming and I thought that was a good reason to head back up.
(05:17):
And I asked my brothers, Mike and Tim, my older brothers who live there with
me, if If they wanted to go up for the weekend to see the solar eclipse,
Norwich was not going to be in the path of totality.
But I found that the city of Auburn, New York, which was only about 90 minutes
to the northwest, would be.
And we just drive there for the day. So we're like, let's go.
(05:38):
It was a nice encapsulated weekend. Yeah, it was.
You know, of the eclipse and homecoming, so to speak.
So what we did, now I haven't been back there since. I went back with my friend
Bobby Keenan in 1981 for a long weekend. but that the town seemed,
it was exactly the same, right?
Yeah. It sounds like that. Don't change. So, so hadn't been back. My brother's.
(05:59):
Either of them hadn't been back since 79. So I mentioned, you know,
when we left, there was the Woolworths was there.
We had four grocery stores. We had the Grand Union. We had the Great American.
We had an A&P and we had another one in the North Shopping Center and all of
the, there was a shopping center at the North end of town and one at the South
(06:19):
end of town, both running, both full, all of the shops were full.
There was a Big M, there was a James Jamesway, there was the North Shopping
Center, there was a Carl's Pharmacy, and there was a Carvel,
and the Copper Kettle Candy Store next to the- Now you're talking about downtown,
which was a very active downtown.
Downtown, the Pudgy's Pizza, the YMCA was there.
(06:40):
The Guernsey Memorial Library was in full swing, Gibson Elementary in the north
side of town was kindergarten through sixth grade, Perry Brown,
Never the Twain Shall Meet was on the south side of town, kindergarten.
Garden we had at gibson we had the spring
frolick and it's very frolick spring frolick
was our our spring festival and then perry brown had the fall festival there
(07:02):
was a maypole and uh no there wasn't there wasn't but there was all the like
you know old-timey carnivory things all of those things were going on so we're
heading up with friday let's see friday april 5th you came up to rockville We dropped off the dog,
the puss, with Connie up at the Elks. He got to go to daycare.
(07:23):
Yeah, because she watches him. And in hindsight, dropping him off Saturday morning
in Montgomery Village probably would have saved us time.
Because as it was, we left, we used Waze, and we're on 270 North.
Kevin plays GPS wars. I do. He pits them against one another.
(07:43):
Waze versus Google Maps. Just pick one.
I chose poorly Oh, it wasn't bad And Waze got us off 270 right into a construction
site If we'd gone to drop him off We probably would have just been rerouted
We made our way up So we stopped in Scranton, Pennsylvania,
Jack's best friend Frank's older sister Terry And we stopped in Scranton Which has its own troubles.
(08:10):
Scranton is a town Hit hard by multiple things Yeah.
And it looks a little rough around the edges. Yeah.
However, I had a lovely lunch with Terry and Kevin got to sit there and listen
to the two of us yammer on.
That was fine. It was quite lovely and it was so good to see her and of course, you know.
Went to the grocery store next door and it was unheated.
(08:31):
He came back and said, they didn't turn the heat on. Terry's like,
I'm not really surprised.
So, and they had a weirdly small selection of soda.
There was like Pepsi Coke, Diet Coke, Diet Pepsi, Dr.
Pepper, root beer, and then a couple generics. And that was it.
It was a huge grocery store. Well. Huge.
Those places are just struggling to stay open. They were. You know they are.
(08:55):
My brothers, Tim and Mike, were driving up from Virginia Beach.
So they started out before us, and now they've gotten ahead of us.
So as we're heading out, and I'm driving up, and I'm seeing Binghamton for the
first time in 40 years. and I'm remembering, I was telling Jack about the Tri-Cities.
There's Johnson City, Endicott, and Binghamton. The Tri-Cities.
Oof. And when you grew up in Norwich, it's like, you know, you're going down
(09:18):
to the big city. And I took karate lessons at the Y and Washington Roo.
And Heidi Ochiai, our main dojo, was in Johnson City. Johnson City? Yeah.
Endicott. It was down there anyway. But that was the last time I was there.
Just going down there was like going to a big city. And there was the Oakdale Mall, right?
My mom didn't drive. So we would regularly go for months, if not years,
(09:40):
not leaving Norwich. We would go.
My dad would drive us to either Rhode Island or Allegheny, New York in the summer.
But other than that, we went nowhere.
Now, to paint a picture so that you understand Norwich completely,
and I'm not being sarcastic or mean, Mayberry.
A very small town, a town square with all your government buildings and everything,
(10:03):
some restaurants and stuff. Bedford Falls.
Perfect. Bedford Falls from It's a Wonderful Life. It's a small town. It's encapsulated.
There's all kinds of things in the town, but once you go outside the city limits,
there's really nothing.
It's farmland. There was a writer who worked for my dad's paper,
a sports writer, who just started his career after he went to Colgate.
He got out, worked for nothing for my dad, writing sports.
(10:26):
He went on to be a pretty accomplished writer for Sports Illustrated,
and he wrote an article about his time in Norwich, and he likened it to being
in Bedford Falls. Perfect.
Perfect. Yeah, so came up, saw Binghamton. I was like, wow, it looks different, right?
And as we're coming up Route 12, getting kind of excited, and we got to Shenango Forks.
(10:46):
Shenango Forks never looked good. Sorry, Shenango Forks.
But boy, I was expecting it to be kind of rough, but Shenango Forks, man, you delivered.
Livered and the weather was just as bad
as i thought it would be it was it was probably in the
upper 40s lower 50s it was threatening that
kind of weird spring like cold rain but then you could see sun it was like irish
(11:09):
weather and my brother only ever said when he describes norwich he was at gray
well it's gray it was gray it was so my brothers are ahead of us and and you're
saying they're not going to be able to check in without you i called up and
i lean at the front desk of the Red Roof Inn,
was like, oh, it's got the same last name, is that you? Right,
you're good. No, they can check in.
(11:30):
So now the Red Roof Inn, I have some history with because it was a travel lodge
when it opened in 1969. I remember it was a big deal.
Then it was a Howard Johnson's. A Howard Johnson's. And then it became something
else. And now it's a Red Roof.
But my friend Peter Balzer's dad managed that hotel.
So we used to be able to go swim in the indoor pool. And see.
(11:52):
Which was closed when we were there.
Anyway, so we're coming up. I go through Oxford for the first time.
We used to do a walk-a-thon where you could go from Norwich to Oxford and walk back.
And you got out however many people would pledge. I'll give you 10 cents a mile.
Yeah, you pledged by the mile, yeah. And it was 20 miles down and back.
10 miles down, 10 miles back.
My mom would never let me do it for some reason. Tom Cook got you to do it.
(12:16):
Your mother was a little protective. She was. Bobby Keenan got to do it,
but not me. Bobby Keenan got you.
Mom, Bobby Keenan's getting to do it. No, for some reason I wasn't able to do
that. I could have a paper route where I could, you know, I was a pack animal
carrying 40 pounds of newspapers over a mountain, but I couldn't walk to Oxford.
So I saw Oxford and I was like, oh. And then as we start coming into town,
(12:36):
I remembered when we left, the farthest southern part of Norwich was the South
Mall where the Big N was and the bowling alley and a couple other shops.
But there were, we passed Fred's Inn on the left, which I think, or it was Fred's?
Yeah, Fred's? It was on the left. They had a restaurant, and they had rooms,
and I think that was just there, but on the right, there was a... You said it had moved.
(12:59):
It was closer in and it had moved out. It was all the way in.
It was where the hands-in was, right as you come to town.
But then on the left, there was a garden center, and there was a Walmart,
right? There was a Walmart on the right.
Walmart's kill small town. That came in, and then finally I saw the Burger King
that used to be a Carol's.
Music.
(13:40):
And the price is right It was Carol's Restaurant.
You said that that shopping center on the south side, that was a very vibrant shopping center.
The whole town was. The whole town was. And that shopping center was,
I don't think it was... There was a... Maybe one store. Where the big end was is now a supply store.
Then there was a Chinese restaurant next to it. All teeny little Chinese restaurant.
(14:01):
Then nothing. The rest of it was empty. The bowling alley was closed.
The bowling alley was closed, which shocked me. The only operating bowling alley
in Norwich right now is in the basement of the Elks. There you go.
Four lanes. So we came in. I was like, the weather looks right.
The shopping center doesn't look right. We made it to the hotel.
But strangely familiar, the NBT Bank temperature sign on the left as you come in was there.
(14:23):
And you could call that up 334. I forget what it was. It would give you the
time and the temperature. Oh, that's funny. Time and temperature. Yeah.
And the Colonial was there. And if I didn't look too closely, it doesn't look bad.
The shops didn't have stuff in it. But I was so like, I'm home. I'm home.
Mom, I'm home. You know, right? And he ended up, you know, like coming back.
He's running down the street in Bedford Falls. All the stores are empty.
(14:46):
So we checked into the Red Roof Inn and it was fine.
Decided to get a bite to eat the YMCA. It's the new YMCA and the old one's gone.
But the Methodist church is right there with the giant spire.
I'm like, I remember you.
He was talking to the spire. We ate at a, we walked down North Broad and it
was completely familiar.
And I felt like I'd been there yesterday.
(15:08):
And we went down, we went to an, the first place we went to was like a biker
bar, which is kind of where near the Bluebird used to be. And I go,
what the hell is going on?
And then the other storefronts were gone. And I was like, this is,
that was my first, like, what's going on? Because there was a bank that was
gone where the Bluebird is closed. And it was a couple other things.
There was a thing called something, a Chinese buffet. That had been closed for months.
(15:32):
Well, think about it. The time frame you've been gone, think how many things
have opened and closed. Oh, my God.
And I know COVID hit that place hard. So we ended up going to an Irish bar down
almost to Nina's. And it was fun.
But it was just, I think that was an ice cream parlor when I was a kid.
And we made our way back. And where the bank used to be or whatever was a bodega.
It was labeled a bodega. I bought a six pack of beer.
(15:54):
We went back to the, went back to Red Roof and called it a night.
And the next morning, bright and early, 10 o'clock, opened the window up,
looked out. There's the Methodist church. There's the Y.
I went over, just walked into the new Y, looked around. It was like, wow, this is an upgrade.
Me and my brothers, we got in the car and Jack, we drove up through the neighborhood
(16:14):
and up to Hillview Drive, which is where we spent, where we lived when we first
got there. And when we lived at 4 Hillview Drive, we lived at 15 Hillview Drive.
And in between, we lived at Borden Avenue down by the Great American Warehouse,
down by the railroad tracks.
So, you know, wow, here we took some pictures, walked around a little bit.
And then we went down to the diner at the bottom of Sunset next to where the
(16:37):
Tasty Freeze is on Route 12 North, North Brock, as you're leaving.
And the Tasty Freeze and the Pizza Hut. And then right there, there's a diner.
I think it's just the Norwich Diner. so we had
breakfast and they didn't have american cheese i made
friends with the waitress oh you again she said
oh you again while we were eating i went next door to the tasty freeze because
(17:00):
in the back of the tasty freeze they used to have a dining room they had a jukebox
i was like oh i wonder what's there went back and it's just now a dining room
and it was just like the almost like the diner we were in and then i went around
front where you could get ice cream and it was all kind
of banged up for the winter and she's like, oh, we're just getting ready to open up.
We're waiting for a new machine. I was like, oh, thank God. This is still a thing.
(17:20):
Because, and we were going to go, we want to go to the pizza because we wanted to go.
Last time I was there, they had the salad bar. You've got a pitcher of Coke,
you know, and again, thousand Island dressing to stress this in our,
in my youth, in my youth, everything was walkable.
Yeah. So from where he grew up, his house to this, to this diner,
(17:42):
to the downtown, we're talking like a mile, a mile and a half,
maybe it's all walkable.
And he was like, yeah, I used to walk this. I used to ride my bike.
I delivered papers all over this hill.
He sure did. And once we were done with that, we drove back and we went to Gibson school.
And we walked around and we bumped into a young woman with her children.
(18:05):
They were over where the kindergarten side of Gibson is. That's where he went to, just to clarify.
That's where they all went to elementary. We went to elementary.
And she told us about how Norwich actually qualified for some of the most fundamental
grants. because the county is in such poor shape that they get social security grants.
I didn't see it. I saw the homes that run along the edge of the playground all
(18:27):
look very, I used to know who lived in all of them.
And we went around to the other side and Jack and Tim stayed in the car.
My brother Mike and I walked out across the playing fields behind Gibson all the way to the edge.
Up to the back of the houses that you grew up in. Right.
And then to look down where the Little League field is. And as we're coming
back, there are two kids in the backyards of our former neighbors,
(18:50):
not the TDs, but the, I think the Casamentos.
And the one kid is maybe four years old and the other kid is probably eight or nine.
And the little kid's saying something to Mike and I as we're making our way
back to the car. He's probably a hundred yards away.
And he's, Mike, I think he's talking to us and we keep walking and he's slowly
making his way towards us.
(19:11):
And then oh man but i'm like i think
he's calling us old man oh man i'm gonna throw this
rock at you and i i was like
mike i i i think we're in trouble and and
and he's he's he's got a rock in his hand it's the size of a softball or whatever
it's weighs as much as he does and i don't know and his older brother comes
over sorry sorry it was the funniest damn thing got back in the car so We also
(19:38):
stood on a mountain of snow.
We got a picture of snow. There was still snow on the ground.
There was a big mound of snow. Big. There was a mound of snow,
so we're standing on it like mountaineers.
And so then we went to St.
Paul's, which was the—St. Paul's was the Irish church in town when I was there, and then St.
Bartholomew's was the Italian church on that side. So the small town could keep,
(20:00):
could prosper with multiple Catholic churches, because there was an Irish Catholic
church and an Italian Catholic church.
Back in the day, the population of Norway, which was probably another 3,000
or 4,000 strong, I mentioned, I think, somewhere...
At five o'clock i would wait for the the the whistle to
blow down at the pharmacy the pharmacy employed martin
(20:22):
norwich eaton pharmaceuticals employed
a big chunk of the town they were a pharmaceutical
manufacturing company we had a lot of phds in
norwich a lot of mds in norwich associated with the plant norwich
had kind of a lopsided top heavy intelligentsia there
was more there's a lot of money in norwich because of that so
there was a horn there and there was one at the the shoe factory yeah name that
(20:44):
there was see that's part of the problem with norwich is
all these businesses closed and left so kevin
name the big companies that were there when you
were a little kid yeah it was the pharmacy the pharmacy there
was a shoe factory there was champion oh yeah champion clothing yeah and and
the grocery stores the hospital was one down by the airport that that's what
(21:04):
that's eating pharmaceuticals that was more norwich and um all of those left
And what was the place that your house was in front of? The one that burned
down that's no longer there.
That was the great American warehouses. So it was funny cause we're driving
through there and Mike's like, yeah, I was sneaking cigarettes behind that barbecue
right there. And I'm like, oh my God.
Yes, we drove by. And so we went to St.
(21:26):
Paul's, St. Paul's had a major renovation in the nineties and they switched it completely around.
I didn't recognize it. And then.
Went back to the hotel. Jack saw in the hotel elevator that the Norwich Theater
Company Incorporated was putting on their version of Clue at 3.30 that afternoon. Now, imagine.
(21:49):
Now, listen, people. You know I got a thing for Clue. And they're putting on
Clue at the local theater.
I was like, listen, you guys. If nothing else is going on, I would really like to go see this.
And Kevin was like, I'll go. go i sure did so
we went it's in the junior high school has was
(22:10):
closed and turned into senior living and the
junior high has been attached to this high school now so this was in the old
junior high school auditorium it was beautiful you know that old school was
probably you know the the turn of the century kind of thing where it looked
like you could tell it was like very big in the 50s the 50s and 60s so it was
very beautiful the insert the interior of the theater was beautiful yeah Yeah,
(22:32):
the experience was really fun. They did their best.
Oh, I had a ball. I had an absolute ball. It was fun, fun, fun.
So while we were in there, my brothers just went back to the room.
They drove around for a little bit, and they went and saw where the old newspaper.
My dad had bought the Evening Sun in 69, and then he built a new facility for it over on Eaton Avenue.
And then it's now been moved back over kind of to the location where the original
(22:55):
building was, kind of near the Y.
They went and did their thing. We did that. Got back to the hotel.
I wanted to go to the library, the Guernsey Memorial Library,
because I wanted to pull up, I used to get books out of there like mad,
and I was sure if I could remember a couple titles about Japan,
that I would be able to pull it up and look in and see my signature from 1975.
Oh, that's funny. The whole upper part of the library is closed off with duct
(23:20):
tape and liners because they're renovating it, and all of those books are in
the basement in boxes, and the people at the library are like,
we don't know where we're going to get to it.
Because, you know, that kind of stuff runs out of money quickly.
Yeah, and earlier in the day, we went by, as we drove around,
I got them all over the map.
We drove around, after we were up on Hillview Drive and Sunset Drive,
we then went down to the Kurt Beyer pool.
(23:41):
We went to the pool. The Kurt Beyer pool, which was closed for years.
The Kurt Beyer pool, that was the, when you were a teenager or a kid,
you went to the Kurt Beyer pool in the summer every day.
And that was closed for years. I couldn't believe it. You're like, our lips were blue.
We didn't care. I remember going there, and I was a swimming assistant,
but I took lessons there when I was like eight.
(24:02):
Was Micah a lifeguard there? No, he wasn't.
But I remember getting there and now in hindsight, they would tell you the water
temperature on the chalkboard and it would regularly be 71, 69.
And when you're eight years old and you weigh 19 pounds, it was brutal.
But anyway, we were there. They redid the kiddie pool.
(24:22):
The little bridge across the creek, the Shenango, Candice Walker Creek is gone.
That was a big one. but then we drove back by we went by doyle's which
is now doyle's was one of those neighborhood supermarkets or markets
mini markets it's now a flop house it's
like people now i well maybe not a
flop out it's now apartments and then and we
(24:43):
drove past several of them and none of them were still we
went by welch's welch's is gone rexford street market
is now the train museum of course driving briggs veterinary
is gone that's just a private resident driving through you know
driving through the town and between the three of them oh that
was such and such oh that was where sonso lived oh that's
where such and such oh that's where we got our christmas tree right oh that's where
(25:04):
this oh where the nina's pizza was closed because they were
taking their spring break and it was reopening the day we
left sorry kevin got to miss nina's so
got back from the play it was a bus at
the library mike and i decide to go for a
walk so mike and i are just going to take a walk from
the red roof in and just again to stress
(25:24):
this is not a very large when a
walk and they encompassed a lot of they they
actually took in a lot but it wasn't that far we went across the street right
we went across the street one past the park on east main down the side street
mike's like that and the name of the bar was i forget he's like that's the first
bar i ever had a beer and we went in there we came out the back we walked down
(25:49):
the street now the elks there's the
Elks Lodge, and I'm an Elk, so we went in, we got a beer at the Elks,
then walked down and I showed them the Grand Union.
The new Grand Union, which is gigantic.
There used to be a Grand Union in the North Mall. That was gone.
I don't know if it's the same company, but it's the only real,
grocery store in norwich now what was the name of
(26:09):
the guy you went to school with who seemed to own all the gas stations
marabito oh and and that was
another thing because marabito apparently marabito fuel was a thing even before
but coming up i was like i thought is that tim marabito each of you knew a different
marabito we all knew the marabitos it was a big name and i had to share that
you know when you're in school you're all geniuses so tim marabito had the genius
(26:33):
nickname of tim marabifoot.
And so and i remember the day
in fifth grade when one geniuses
i think it was his first name was david i believe
it was him he finally someone came up with hey kevin mcwoman and i was like
damn it somebody finally realized my last name is man and you could put a woman
(26:56):
so i got mcwoman and that didn't last very long my friend tom cook quickly redubbed
me ed in high school, Fred McMahon.
When Kevin told me that, I was like, I don't get it, Ed McMahon.
I felt very stupid. It was funny.
And for those of you who are younger, Ed McMahon was the sidekick to Johnny
Carson on the backstreet. Johnny Carson, right.
We did that. We went back and got you guys. We went and got the dinner at the
(27:17):
place right on, what is it called?
It was, it's a bar, bar restaurant thing right there. We ate in bars the whole
time. It's right next to where Pudgy's Pizza was.
Pudgy's Pizza! And then that night we drove around some more,
went back up to Sunset, And then we tried to go up to where the rock quarry
was way up on West Hill. There was a rock quarry.
(27:38):
And back in the day, you could, there was a trail you could get, get up to it on your bike.
But now it's, it's, there's like a proper county facilitated path up to it.
And we missed it. I wanted to kind of wanted to go up and see it,
but we got up there and Kevin takes off hawking and Mike's like, the sign says six miles.
Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I was reading that right. because there was
(28:00):
kind of a legend that there was a monster that lived up there. Just nonsense.
You didn't tell me about that. Yeah. So then we made it back down and the next day we got up
We got breakfast at the diner right on East Main.
I forget what it was called. It was a different one. That's where we met the
girl who went to, the woman who went to high school with, and she went to- Yeah,
she's like, I went there occasionally.
(28:20):
Mike's like, what year did you- Mike's like, two years to graduate. I said occasionally.
Yeah. That was funny. She was, she was funny. So then we headed out.
We had a really cool drive.
We left, we went out through South Plymouth, past where the Little League field is, and ice rink.
Drove out through South Plymouth, and then just took us up past Oneonta.
Really cool drive we got to
(28:41):
skinny atlas and the crowds were building skinny atlas
by the way looks super cool now we're preparing for the eclipse so
we left norwich to head north to
auburn for the right this is what is it called
full concentration what's it called total totality totality
right so we went to auburn for the totality of the
eclipse this is monday april that was
(29:02):
eight yeah okay right yes because we
got up there saturday sunday was fun day then we did
that and then we came back on tuesday okay so we got there
we drove through skinny atlas which is on the finger lake super cool i
want to go back we got to auburn auburn was a much bigger place than i thought
they've got a huge penitentiary there got a great lunch at a brew pub again
(29:22):
we had a lot of bar and like you know because you know bars now aren't necessarily
bar bars but you know a lot of bar pubs we ate in one that's where we ate most
of our meals at which was fine by me but it was funny It was a good meal.
Right on time, the weather was kind of okay, and you could make out the sun,
but about 20 minutes before the eclipse was supposed to start,
good old upstate New York weather rolled in, and by the time it started, there were teeny.
(29:48):
Teeny, wafer-thin glimpses of the sun through the clouds. Now, he is complaining.
Now, I'm going to say we were given the suggestion to go to a top of a parking
garage. Yeah, we did. Which was a really good idea.
It was a great idea. So we went to the top of this parking garage with a small gathering of people.
We had those glasses and all that stuff it
was so obscured by the clouds because it was
(30:09):
so just because the cloud cover was so heavy it
actually made you could just look right at it look at it so it was actually
i actually got a lot more out of it because i was able to just look i didn't
have to deal with all that other stuff and there was that one that one uh woman
that got behind us was played totally clips of the heart which was perfect but
having never experienced anything
(30:30):
like that if i have i just don't remember you have you
have it no no but i mean like i have to
at some point in my 55 years been in the path of an eclipse no no okay i don't
know they're not listen don't don't dumb shame me i know so at any rate so we're
standing on the top of this parking garage and it was so interesting because
(30:51):
you could see the dark coming and then it was.
Kind of it was kind of comfortable and then it
got really cold yeah and then it got dark and
then all the lights the lights came on and then it the sun
came back out and it was really in a weird
way it was like that was really super bizarre the way your mind tries to figure
(31:12):
it out it was pretty neat we did that and and you know we we ticked that box
and then we headed back and drove back along lake skinny atlas and got back
to norwich and then jack and michael i now Now, what did we do then?
We got back from, we drove up to, we got back and we drove up to Hillview Drive,
and then we went up on top of the hill where there was new development.
(31:35):
There is a Mormon church all the way up there. All of this happened after we left.
Growth in norwich came to a screeching halt within a
decade of us leaving we left kind of at the height in 79 80
81 norwich was still humming by the
early 90s norwich was shrinking because kevin was pointing
out my paper route this was the last house there was nothing past here i would
(31:57):
have had another 70 houses what was the deal with the cornfield oh we hid this
we hid that there me and sean hayes had a bb gun i was allowed to have a bb
gun we kept the bb gun hidden in the cornfield In the cornfield.
We would build bonfires in the cornfield. We had a lean-to up in the woods up by the cornfield.
Steven Shonoski next door had a minibike. We rode the minibike in the cornfield.
(32:19):
And it was funny because Mike was saying the same thing with his friends.
So both of them. The cornfield, because it was just at the top of Hillview Drive at the end of Sunset.
Massive cornfield. And then woods. So just shit went on up there.
There were like tree houses. And now it's all a suburb. It's all houses and
stuff. It was developed more. But again, it's kind of stopped.
(32:40):
It was a lot of driving around. And where the Copper Kettle was is a store selling
locally made Chenango County goods.
I think I saw a few of those. There were a couple of the stores that were downtown
that were still open, but they were closed for the weekend or whatever.
But the majority, I'd probably say 80% of the stores were empty.
A lot of the storefronts were empty.
Frere's is gone, and Fishman's is gone, and the Woolworth's is gone.
(33:03):
But again, it didn't look... Doug Sub's is gone. But they were empty,
but they didn't... They weren't neglected, they weren't derelict.
Perfect, it did not look derelict.
Apparently in the upper stories of a lot of those buildings are squatters.
Squatters? Yeah, and they're illegally staying in those apartments and people want to kind of like
to revive them or revitalize them are
(33:24):
having trouble getting them out well and some more
than a few back in the day norwich had a real
vibrant vibe to it pedestrian wise so a lot of just kind of like meandering
like people not doing stuff kind of thing you know what i mean more reminiscent
of an inner city than the norwich i knew right you know well but i mean that's
with time changes and of course such a huge period of time has passed since
(33:48):
you were there correct it's going going to be very dramatic.
Whereas to compare it to me in Parkersburg, I moved away, but I still went home
every two or three months for years and years.
So the, the change didn't seem that big incremental.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a long time and, but driving, but driving down.
North broad street, just coming back.
(34:09):
I just was struck by how absolutely straight North and South broad streets are.
They're so wide. I feel like Napoleon designed them
in case there's an an uprising you can shoot cannons down them
and you can literally see from the mcdonald's what
was it all the italian renaissance not italian renaissance italian
all the houses revival italian revival all the italian revival architecture
(34:31):
those square houses with the square things on the top there is very very very
specific right type and there were lots of houses there and of course kevin
saying you know there was a lot of italian immigrants there so that was.
The fancy houses right and we found like uh spano's
and our our old you know restaurants and things
(34:52):
and drove around the high school and you know
just just came across places and every corner had a memory we went to the may
dole hammer factory museum which is right next to the shenango county what was
the museum you guys hid it you snuck into and you got to talk to the story the
the hammer museum okay well yeah it was yeah it was closed they just went in just little things like
(35:15):
that in the the golden age nursing home that
our friend mark hollifield managed it's just too many memories
to bring back you know our house on bourdon avenue and and my
paper route on hillview and eric street and i didn't have hillview i actually
had eric half of eric and sunset and then sunset court kennison walked a creek
and you know the hospital the hospital's been given a major upgrade we used
(35:37):
to just hang out in the hospital cafeteria because we were bored that's I actually understand that.
And the first thing you said to me, though, when we drove in and we drove through
the main square, the town square in front of the.
You know courthouse and you're like that's where santa claus
was in winter and i go you had santa
claus out in the outside here that little
(36:00):
that little small and not pavilion what is that called a little uh goda into
his gazebo they would turn the gazebo into his but they made it weather resistant
to the winter because the way he described winters it was like every Every winter
was like Siberia. It kind of was.
And, you know, there was the Sears store, the Sears fulfillment store,
(36:21):
and there was the green stamp store right there.
We did that. I remember mom collected the stamp.
Gas stations were gone. Just predictable. So if you didn't pay too much attention
as you drove down south broad, it didn't look too bad.
It was only if you kind of like looked for.
It didn't look bad at all. It didn't look that bad. But if you look.
Truly, truly hope that there's some sort of a renaissance there because the
(36:43):
towns there, The infrastructure, so to speak, the streets, the buildings, everything's there.
Some sort of artisanal, you know. Yeah.
Chobani has brought a lot of wealth back into the county over in New Berlin
because Chobani yogurt and that over there, there's some industry,
but it's just not enough of a ripple effect for Norwich.
Of all the towns up there, I mean, Shenango is in bad shape,
(37:05):
but it has the infrastructure to become something anew.
It said it didn't look bad. It wasn't. And yeah, despite the Facebook got some
rough looking area, you know, there were a lot of naysayers on Facebook and
I get what some of them were saying.
A lot of them were saying, look for the charm and a lot of people on the receiving
end of maybe some of the rougher aspects of it.
(37:26):
But yeah, if you're listening to this because of the Facebook or whatever,
don't be afraid to go back to Norwich.
You're going to be, you're not going to be happy, but you're not going to be shocked.
It's going to be in between and you're going to find memories around every corner.
Just like I did. I everywhere I'm like I know that
I remember that I wiped my bike out there I remember
we threw rocks at a kid I remember I had
(37:48):
one of my first fistfights here you know like I only had three and and we had
a lean-to there we this is that and so it's that kind of a place for me and
I had a really good time it's not nearly as exotic as Parkersburg West Virginia
you know But it was my home for 11 years,
so yeah, Norv can go home again.
(38:10):
You can, yay! Thanks for listening, you guys.
Music.
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