Siera Smith - President at Upright Labs & Neatoscan

Siera Smith, President at Upright Labs & Neatoscan, sits down with Ryan to walk through her career, discuss her early entry to the C-Suite, and to talk about her perspective on hiring and being hired.

Connect with Siera on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sierasmith/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[MUSIC]
Welcome to the GoodFit Careers podcast where we explore perspectives on work that fits.
I'm Ryan Dickerson, your host.
Today's guest is Siera Smith.
Siera is the president of Upright Labs and Neatoscan.
Both businesses provide e-commerce software solutions and

(00:20):
services for second hand businesses like Goodwill, Salvation Army,
Habitat for Humanity, and used the book's resellers around the world.
Together, Upright Labs and NEDO scan have 50 employees and
generate over $10 million in annual revenue.
Siera started her career as a special events coordinator with the Southern New Jersey Chamber of Commerce.

(00:41):
Then joined Webmax, where she worked way up to Chief Operating Officer.
In 2020, Siera joined Upright Labs as the Director of Operations and
Implementation and was promoted to president in 2022.
Siera, thank you for being here.
>> Thank you for having me, Ryan.
It's a delight to have you on the show.
So to get us started here and to help us understand where you're coming from and

(01:04):
what you do, would you tell us a little bit about the work you do today and
your company as you see it?
>> Absolutely.
So I oversee as president of Upright Labs and NEDO scan.
There are two businesses that in the last year and a half have been coming together
as one company, one business, one team under the Corden's umbrella,
which is a private equity firm that acquired us both within the last two and

(01:25):
a half years.
These two companies have been very fierce competitors in the space over the years.
So when we came together, it was definitely certainly something in the industry that
was really exciting.
Upright Labs started in about 2017 as a software and services business.
So essentially, the services business would take a Salvation Army,

(01:45):
would take us through the business modeling for an e-commerce facility.
We would do all the hiring plans, the design of the warehouse,
the operations to launch an e-commerce facility.
And then we'd take some of the items that are in the store that would sell for
much greater value online and help teach them how to do that with our software.
So the software essentially automates the reselling process for

(02:06):
secondhand goods, so there's a lot of individual items and SKUs.
And so from photography, inventory management to listing and
then all the way to fulfillment.
And then on the NEDO scan side, also a similar software doing the same thing,
but also a books reselling software books and media.
So generally, listing books online can be a pretty encompassed in process if
you were to do it manually, but essentially with that software, you just scan the barcode

(02:29):
and goes online nice and easy.
So big sellers on Amazon are listing through our software there too.
So cool.
How fascinating.
And a niche that I never really would have expected would become, you know,
a $10 million business.
I mean, who would have thought that's amazing way to go?
Yes, yeah, we are.
I would say our team and myself are very passionate about the work we do and
who we do it with.
So it's pretty cool.

(02:50):
All right, awesome.
So let's learn a little bit about you and how you came to be.
Would you bring us back all the way to the beginning and tell us a little bit
about what you were like as a kid?
Absolutely.
So I was a child of three, so middle child.
My younger brother is much younger than me, but my older brother and I are pretty close.
So we grew up together, him and I really helping the family business at a very young age.

(03:12):
So 10 years old, my family comes from entrepreneurs.
My dad at one point was an operations leader at University of Penn and
decided he wasn't around us kids enough.
So he started a business and essentially we would go to trade shows.
We would be selling my brother and I competing on who could sell more.
I'd have my little step stool because I couldn't see over the counter.
And then at like 13 with my dad, I wrote my first business plan for

(03:36):
a nightclub that was opening in Orlando for my uncle.
So to say that I kind of grew up with that entrepreneurial spirit,
would I probably be an understatement.
And so as a kid, there was two really things that I loved and it was business.
And figuring that out and also planes.
So I would go a lot to the airport.

(03:57):
We live by an FAA and just with my dad and watch planes take off and land.
So there therefore was too past I thought I was going to go down, but
I'll tell you more about that later.
Pilot or entrepreneur, I hear you.
Yes.
And in terms of the work you're doing today, I know that being an entrepreneur and
being in business was something that you always aspire to do.

(04:18):
But did you think at this point in your life you'd be a chief executive,
a president of a business?
You know, I don't know looking back what I thought I would be, but
I've always been a very eager and resilient person.
And I knew I wanted to, when I found out I didn't want to be a pilot,
I knew that I would be a business leader.
I just didn't know probably this this quickly, but I knew that my eagerness and

(04:40):
my resilience would probably get me far quickly.
I thought I was going to get my PhD and I did get my masters, but I was,
I learned later in life like maybe you don't do that unless you want to teach.
So there was that is where I probably saw myself with some sort of business.
But no, I didn't really know at this age that I would be where I am.
Yeah, right on.
And what was your education like?

(05:00):
It was always a good student and an athlete.
And when I went to undergrad, I actually started because I loved math and physics and
also thought I wanted to be a pilot maybe.
I started in computational science with a physics and a mathematics base.
So took all the different types of math and then my third year into school,
I realized in a programming course and bless our programmers here at Upbreak.

(05:24):
It's amazing what they do because when I joined that course,
I realized it wasn't for me.
I am definitely a people's person in a lot of ways but also still love the numbers.
So I actually my third year of college switched to communications and public relations.
So I actually did my undergrad for five years because of that switch.
It was my presentation course and one of my mentors and

(05:46):
really friends today that made me see the light there too.
So I graduated and then essentially right after that,
I rolled into my MBA at Rutgers at night full time while working full time.
>> Thank good for you.
It sounds like a lot of work.
>> A lot of fun too, learning is fun.
>> Okay, right on.

(06:08):
That inflection point, when you decided to change majors and
add tack on another year to your undergraduate study, that kind of thing could be a really hard decision.
What, you mentioned you had a couple folks who helped show you the light.
What was that decision actually like and what was the calculus for you on?
Staying the course, finishing the degree that you maybe weren't going to pursue in terms of your professional passions.

(06:29):
And then expanding the horizon a little bit.
What was it like?
>> At the end of the day, my dad was a really big advocate for
me for when I wanted to become a pilot, how to do that.
And I think I talked a lot with my parents and they also just wanted to see me happy.
And my dad always joked that I'm a talker.
So he was like, communications will be perfect for you.

(06:50):
So I think they were my father, my grandparents were a big part of hearing me out and
working through that decision.
I think it was, there was a day that I was studying and
someone that's always been a good student.
I just started crying, looking at my books and I just knew that wasn't for me and
that's really when they came in to support me and make me realize this is okay to change course and

(07:11):
kind of take a step back to take a step forward.
And those moments that feel like maybe a failure, I felt like then I put a lot of pressure on myself.
It's okay to recognize that you can change course and everything will be okay when you do.
>> Yeah, it's kind of scary and painful in the moment.
But then I feel like almost everybody that I talk to and
work with who's had those big monumental shifts.
It's like, I feel like a failure, I haven't done the right thing or

(07:34):
I wasn't able to succeed here and then they find somewhere that actually happy and
it's like, oh, it was painful, but it was certainly worth it.
I'm glad you found your way.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
Took a little bit.
>> So you finished your undergraduate degree.
It took a little bit longer than expected, but still got there.
What was your first full time job out of undergrad like?

(07:55):
>> Yeah, so it was at the South Jersey Chamber and I was a special events coordinator.
So absolutely loved planning events and it was for the business community.
So the Chamber itself, there was two event planners, myself and one other.
And we would plan a few hundred events a year from senators to governors to Dr.
Jay, which that was an exciting one, business owners.

(08:16):
And it was just the content that I would learn.
I was learning about HR policy and government affairs.
And so it was also an education of itself while really getting exposed to networking.
The members would know us, so we'd always be talking to someone different every day.
But really the biggest thing I learned there was attention to detail.
When you have a bunch of stakeholders in a room, every little detail matters from

(08:40):
the logo and making sure that sponsor logos are up to date.
And so I had a lot of fun.
I learned a lot.
I had an incredible boss and mentor at that time.
But I also really just left there with an incredible amount of attention to detail.
And advocating for myself.
I knew that I, the Chamber was amazing, but
I also knew that I wanted to grow quick in my career.

(09:01):
And I felt like that some businesses operated at a different pace or
different growth trajectories.
And so I knew, unfortunately, it was hard to leave.
But I knew that I wanted to grow quicker than I could there.
>> Mm-hm, that makes sense.
It also looks like if I'm reading this right, that you had your own freelance marketing
and event firm while you were a special events coordinator.

(09:23):
And then that led you into that first role at Webmax, is that right?
>> Yeah, so I did a lot of social media marketing.
I also did a lot of either charity event planning or
helping different non-profits launch.
There was an animal welfare association.
I helped launch their website and things of that sort.
I just historically have always found myself wanting to be involved in a variety

(09:46):
of different things out of school and just work.
So that was a good example of something I did there.
>> Sure, awesome.
And you joined Webmax after you left the Chamber.
Tell me a little bit about your decision to leave the Chamber of Commerce.
And what it was like to kind of move into kind of a more formal,
it looks like a director of marketing role with the company a little bit outside
of the Chamber of Commerce space.

(10:08):
>> Well, at the Chamber, while I plan events, I got exposed to a lot of marketing.
I would even help the accounting team a little bit.
So again, there I was trying to find ways to wear a lot of different hats.
And so I knew as I was finishing up my MBA,
I was towards the end of it when I left the Chamber,
that those things kind of align to wherever I go next,
and I want to go to a smaller company.

(10:29):
I learned in my internship, I didn't want to work for a big organization.
And I wanted to wear a lot of hats and I wanted to try different things.
And so as I was finishing up my MBA, I did give the Chamber almost two months notice.
I'm a big advocate for if you can, and I know not everyone can in situations.
Give a lot of notice, especially when it's a good experience and

(10:50):
you respect the people that you work for.
And so I gave a lot of notice and I begin working at Webmax because it was a startup
that was only a few employees right around a very low amount,
about one to two million in recurring revenue or so, in a really cool space in Infantec.
And I felt like I could make a big difference there.
And I had a friend that referred me to that organization.

(11:11):
So definitely networking in who you know makes a big difference.
And that was kind of where my journey started at Webmax and why I made the shift there.
>> Sure, that makes sense.
You mentioned a moment ago that you found that small companies were the right fit for
you, large companies weren't quite the sweet spot there.
How'd you figure that out?
>> I think it was the Chamber and my internship.
So the internship was a publicly held energy company.

(11:33):
While I was also in school, I was taking quite a few classes in undergrad and
involved in a chapter, it's called PRSSA, Public Relations Student Society of America.
I did in my last seven months almost work full time at this organization.
So I think it had like close to a thousand employees, publicly held energy company,
a lot of red tape, you come in at nine, you leave at four, not a lot of,

(11:58):
I don't know, organized chaos is I guess what I like.
So I was doing very like redundant things, but really important things too,
which was nice.
I mean, there was a lot of community relations and good that was being done in
the role that I was helping support.
But it just was boring, if I'm being honest.
I wanted to dig my teeth into a variety of different things and
dig my teeth into things.

(12:18):
And then at the chamber, I think really what I learned there is I started wearing
kind of some of those different hats, even though I was an event planner.
And I kind of really liked that.
I liked figuring out accounting challenges and how it related over to other systems
and events and things of that sort.
So those two moments were milestones for me to make me realize that.
>> Was there an inflection point for you when operations, general management,

(12:42):
enterprise leadership became kind of the obvious or inexorable path for you?
>> It was when I was the director of marketing at Webmax.
There was not formal kind of, there was an account but
not internal like formal accounting practices or the engineering team.
There wasn't sprints or there wasn't really formal processes for customer success.

(13:04):
So essentially when I was there, I started jumping in and out to every department
while I was doing marketing.
I also launched the first newsletter, which people loved, but I'm not a designer.
It was terrible looking.
Like when I look back now, I'm like, ooh, right?
Okay, don't design, Sarah.
So it's also knowing what you're good at and what you're not good at.
And I didn't want to work for an agency.

(13:25):
I realized that why I love marketing, there are aspects of it that I don't love.
And people that are far smarter and better than me should be doing that, not me.
But also I think with realizing my weaknesses in those areas,
I understood the strategy and conceptually what makes a business grow.
And so while I was getting my MBA and I was wrapping it up,

(13:47):
it was like when I started at Webmax about probably a year before I finished my MBA.
So I was going the marketing trajectory, also took a marketing course where there was
this whole simulation about spending a million dollar marketing budget.
And it was really interesting, but what I found more interesting was the finance
course and the M&A course.
And I took a Lean Six Sigma certification at Lockheed Martin, which was by far

(14:11):
my favorite course in my MBA.
And that's really when I knew is there's every part of the business has processes
and systems and things that you have to do to be able to scale and really grow.
And so that's really the moment I think for me is when I took that course and
then started realizing that across a business systems are important.

(14:32):
And that was probably the big milestone that made me go into operations.
>> How interesting, that makes a ton of sense.
>> Did you indulge my curiosity and tell me a little bit about that Six Sigma class at Lockheed
and being a little bit of an airplane nerd what that was like for you?
>> It was the best.
Yeah, I mean in that moment I'm like, yeah, this would be really cool if I was a pilot and
I could just roll up to Lockheed Martin every day.
But anyways, I did it for operations instead.

(14:54):
>> Sure, sure, yeah, whatever.
>> I did start getting my pilot's license too, but yeah, so it was a one week course.
It was a crash course.
I think we're there like eight to ten hours a day.
And in the beginning of the course, it was very hands on and
conceptual while also learning about confidence intervals and very heavy math things.

(15:15):
That support operations, process improvement, eliminating waste,
all the best practices of lean.
But also just having fun fundamentally implementing a process and
then watching it change over time and doing the process then in 5% of the time that you started.
So a good example was, and there was a lot of these, but the whole course,

(15:38):
the first day we started with this catapult machine where as a team,
you had to work together to hit a mark on the floor a certain amount of times within
I think it was five minutes.
So you had to hit as many balls on this mark on the floor with this catapult system and
work as a team.

(15:59):
I remember we couldn't even get like two or three balls within the first five minutes.
And then over the weeks and the weeks course and everything that we learned,
by the end we had like 100 balls in less than five minutes.
And it was just all about assembly line, this person doing this rather than everyone
trying to do the same thing.
Just little micro scale tweaks to make a massive impact.

(16:21):
And so it was a very hands on visual way to improve a process.
And there was a lot of really fun games like that too that we played that made
kind of what you were learning translate into life.
>> Well, what a nice thing for Lockheed to put together.
And it sounds like something that you can actually apply to your work then and
today and perhaps through your whole career.

(16:43):
>> Absolutely, absolutely.
Highly recommend.
>> [LAUGH]
Good.
So at Webmax, you became a chief operating officer.
And if I'm doing the math right, you're only less than five years out from undergrad, right?
You're still, you just finished your MBA.
And now you're the chief operating officer of Webmax.

(17:05):
What was that experience like to get promoted all the way to the C suite?
And what did you learn about yourself in that first big move?
>> Well, the first thing I will say in a startup, I'm really bad at saying,
because my team always joked about this, so I'm gonna botch the saying.
But it's something about when you spend one year in a startup,
it's like 10 years anywhere else.

(17:25):
It felt like 10 years at least, and I learned a tremendous about myself.
I learned, I think to advocate for myself also, if I'm doing a lot of different work,
it's giving feedback about where I wanna go and what I wanna do here.
And so I will say that the switch from marketing to operations was a big part of
me getting involved in a lot of things and being able to see I can do it and do it well.

(17:50):
And then the other thing is me advocating and saying, hey, I want this,
I want to do this for the company, I know I can do this.
And that was hard as a young woman trying to really push in her career,
advocating for myself was I think a really big thing that got me to even to
where I am today is just saying what I want and what I need and or what I deserve.
And so that was a part of it, but also really looking at different systems and

(18:15):
getting involved in different ways.
I learned more resiliency, I learned resiliency from a really young age for
a variety of reasons in my upbringing.
But this role taught me resiliency because first off the mortgage space is what we
served.
And in a lot of ways sometimes as a younger woman,
you might be talked to a certain type of way where there's not a lot of confidence

(18:37):
because you're young or you're a woman.
And that was something that I learned really at there.
You hear about it in the world,
woman's rights and things of that sort, but I didn't really feel that impact
until I was there.
And sometimes you do feel like there is a ceiling and I was really eager to burst
through it.

(18:58):
So sometimes I feel those things and then I try to find and take action to
really burst the ceiling or move forward as a woman.
But also I would say that I learned how to figure things out.
So to be comfortable with not knowing something and then having the foresight
and then know how to figure it out.

(19:18):
My MBA was certainly helpful in so many ways, but raising capital,
setting up sprints for engineering teams, doing a SOC audit,
which is tremendously challenging when there's no documented processes.
I spent a lot of time on Google and a lot of time reading on my off hours and
just kind of figuring things out.
And so that's, I guess it's a summary.

(19:40):
I learned how to figure things out and be comfortable with the uncomfortable,
how to advocate for myself and how to push barriers as a young woman.
That's great.
I'm glad to hear it.
If there's someone out there who sees a bit of themselves in you,
who also wants to move through their career quickly,
who feels like they're hitting some of these kind of traditional barriers or

(20:01):
ceilings that we talk about, what would you tell them?
That you're going to probably feel some imposter syndrome and that's normal
and that's okay to trust yourself, to pay attention to the details.
That with setbacks, there's opportunity and

(20:22):
that the hardest moments in either life or in your career are probably going to
end up being the best ones and just try to stay positive, try to stay resilient,
and just stay the course.
My grandmother always told me, I'm a woman of all seasons and you can have it all.
I believe that if you set a goal and you really want that goal,
there's a way that you can achieve it.
So just don't give up on yourself, believe in yourself and others might not

(20:44):
always do it, but as long as you do, I believe that you can really sky's limit.
>> Beautifully said, I want tremendous advice.
Let's bring us forward a little bit into your work today.
Can you tell us a little bit about your current job and
a little bit about the companies that you lead?
>> Well, I would really start by saying that my current job,

(21:07):
no day is the same, which I find tremendously fun.
I sign on every day and I would say that I'm very eager to do the work that I'm doing.
There is sometimes far too much of the work, so it is a busy role,
especially when you're bringing two businesses together.
I would say that one day I'll jump into, well, not even one day,

(21:27):
with one hour, I'll jump into finance and then I'll switch and talk to a client.
Then I'll support a team member on implementing a new process and
then I might join a sales call.
Then I might sit and also in the same day talk about the product roadmap and
where our technology is going.
So touching all elements of a business,
I would say that I am a leader that will roll up their sleeves and

(21:49):
dive into things.
So leading by example, not asking my team to do anything I wouldn't or
haven't done myself.
So sometimes being that far in the weeds in this role and
having grown kind of through this business, I wasn't originally the president.
Sometimes it's hard to remove those in the weeds as well.
I also really love it being with my team to that level.

(22:10):
So that's kind of my day to day.
What I would say and the reason when you talk about what do these businesses do?
Serving the second hand retail space, helping good wills and
salvation armies and habitats and many thrift organizations or independent
business resellers make thousands or at times millions of millions more with

(22:32):
the same items that are in their ecosystem.
It all goes back to their mission.
It's I've spent time on site where one woman who had a disability started using
our software and she can only list 10 items the day before and then I trained
her that same day and she listed 50 items.
And it just showcased one that business is going to get a lot more output,

(22:54):
a lot more revenue because of that.
And also, at the end of the day, it was amazing to watch her be so
excited about the role she was doing.
So we are focused in sustainability and second life of items.
We're focused on helping support mission organizations.
And so I always say that the three reasons I work here,

(23:14):
really it comes down to first off the team, the team who I work with is just incredible.
If I had written up what a dream team looks like and
what coworkers that would be a dream to work with, it's all of them.
It's why I do what I do.
They're very smart, they're very inclusive, they're very customer centric and
passionate in all parts of their life.

(23:35):
So our culture is really strong and so it's the people we do it with.
It's who we do it for, those incredible clients that are mission driven.
And it's literally the results, like that story I told you.
It's our software does really make a difference.
It makes millions more, it helps people with roadblocks be able to really do a lot
more with things.
>> That makes a ton of sense.

(23:56):
Would you bring this along a little bit in the kind of structure and
timeline here that these two businesses, upright labs and
NEDO scan, they've come together, they were acquired recently.
Can you help me understand kind of your timeline with the business and
then how they came together and then we'll get a little bit deeper into your function?
>> Absolutely.
So the founder reached out to me one month before COVID started.

(24:19):
So in February, Angel is now well found, I believe, well found.
And so he reached out to me and was seeking someone to launch the company's
services business.
And I have a background in scaling businesses and consulting.
Didn't have a background in second hand.
So we ended up going through a series of interviews in less than two weeks.

(24:40):
Some very intimidating ones, he would appreciate that.
So basically I started, I met him on the train my first day heading to New York City
to work for one of our really large New York City clients and
kick off a services project.
In that year's time, our services business helped really grow the company.
We had already by the end of the year three employees outside of me serving services.

(25:02):
It helped implement one of the first Salvation Army online e-commerce businesses,
helped redesign many others.
So a lot of consulting and growth.
I think like house flipper also like going into a facility and taking the keys and
totally optimizing it and giving the keys back a few days later.
And so we became profitable as an organization because services was really

(25:23):
racking in a lot of revenue.
And we were still as a company bootstrapped around our technology and
kind of in that, I don't want to say beta stage, that beta stage was before I joined.
But really starting to take on a lot of clients in that first year for our software.
The founder and I always had, well, he really always had this joke of,
are you gonna be upright CEO one day?

(25:43):
You're gonna take my job one day?
And we have a culture like that.
We talk about taking, what do you wanna take my job one day and let me train you how.
And so I didn't know that that would actually come to life.
So one day, month and a half before we actually got acquired,
he comes to me and says, hey, Siera, would you wanna be the CEO of upright?

(26:05):
And immediately I'm like, are you dying?
Are you okay?
Are you going to, like you're leaving?
Like something's wrong here.
I didn't know he was selling the company.
And I didn't think that he would sell the company.
So immediately I'm like, you love this and you're passionate about it.
And you've helped me be passionate about the space and where are you going?

(26:26):
What do you mean?
He said, well, there's other people have to help me make this decision.
But I just wanted to make sure you're interested first.
And that's all I got.
I knew he wasn't dying.
He did confirm he was, he was healthy.
But I didn't know why, right?
But I accepted the role and I actually had a really good learning to here.
But about a month after that, I was interviewing with the executives at Cordance.

(27:02):
And they just wanted to make sure that they felt like I was someone that could take on this role.
And then a week later, the company was officially acquired.
And that was in March of 2020 to fun fact, I've been with Cordance now longer than I've been with the original upright.
Wow, time flies.
Yeah.
And then one year to date, NidoScan was acquired by Cordance.

(27:25):
And that day the founder, the business leader, kind of sales leader of that organization had left that day that they got acquired.
So with very little to no handover, I took on NidoScan with the incredible leadership team that we have here.
And the technology founder did stay on and he actually just recently left.
And so there was a lot of kind of figuring out, being fierce competitors in the space and all these dynamics of two competing

(27:53):
softwares now one and even down to like, up rates chat support and NidoScan's phone support, just like different cultures, right?
And a lot of uncertainty with acquisition, there's always so much uncertainty.
And you have one team that's still going through uncertainty.
And now you have another team starting to go through uncertainty and figure out, you know, how cultures come together and processes come together and, you know, carrying two brands.

(28:16):
And we are, we do have a new brand coming out.
So that there will be more, more to come there.
So yeah, and just a lot of, a lot of work went into bringing us together and we had our first company all hands on site.
And that was really special, getting together as one team.
So yeah, it's kind of a high level, actually, of what's gone on here.

(28:36):
Beautiful, makes a ton of sense.
All right, so you joined Upright.
You started as a director of operations and implementation.
You became the president right before the integration and merger into the Cordance umbrella.
Then NidoScan was acquired and the two businesses are under your leadership and run essentially in parallel when they were previously competitors.

(28:58):
Is that about right?
Yes, in parallel.
But really in the last, I would say, especially six months, we did some reorging and it is what, like the CS team has a mixture that manager of that team is overseeing both NidoScan and Upright employees.
The processes are all coming together.
The functions are all coming together.
So it's a lot more seamless now.

(29:19):
And it will be even more seamless if you were to talk to me in six months.
So it's a process.
Sure.
That makes a ton of sense.
So these companies essentially have been coming together as one.
And perhaps by the time this episode is aired, it will be under a new brand as a unified business.
And further down the road, I'm imagining you guys will continue to grow as that singular business.

(29:42):
Yes.
Yep, correct.
Okay, perfect.
So let's talk a little bit about your team and a little bit about how you've decided to structure your business.
One of the things that I have found consistently interesting with senior executives is which roles you choose to have as your team.
Direct reports versus which are going to be cascading a little further away from you as a leader.

(30:03):
Tell me a little bit about your executive leadership team at this newly integrated business.
Absolutely.
Well, first, I'll say that some of the smartest and best people I could have ever asked to work for.
And just kind individuals.
So they're wonderful.
So we have essentially four executives reporting to me.
It took a little bit to get here, but really the best structure I felt was the three prongs of the business.

(30:28):
And that is generating revenue.
So sales and marketing rolls up to one of our executives, the VP of revenue.
Then it's really anything you think customers, customer focus.
So the VP of customer experience.
And she has our services consulting business, our implementation team, account management,

(30:49):
and overall customer support teams rolling up to her.
So she has a very large group of individuals rolling up to her with some managers under there.
And then, of course, our product, our software.
And so as mentioned, we have three softwares who are in competitive of nature, all rolling up to the VP of technology.
So that's really the three prongs, three executives.

(31:10):
And then we have a chief of staff.
And we hired our chief of staff last year when the two businesses came together.
It's really my right hand person to just help support me in really a variety of business functions.
So those are my four executives.
That makes sense.
We'll get back to the conversation shortly, but I wanted to tell you about how I can help you find your fit.

(31:35):
I offer one-on-one career coaching services for experienced professionals who are preparing to find and land their next role.
If you're a director, vice president, or C-suite executive, and you're ready to explore new opportunities,
please go to GoodFitCareers.com to apply for a free consultation.
I also occasionally send a newsletter which includes stories from professionals who have found their fit,

(31:57):
strategies and insights that might be helpful in your job search and content that I found particularly useful or interesting.
If you'd like to learn more, check out GoodFitCareers.com and follow me on LinkedIn.
Now, back to the conversation.
And together, you lead a team of something around 50 people.
Is that about right?
Just almost 50, yes.

(32:18):
And in terms of a good year and setting the course as the captain of the ship here,
what do you think a good year really looks like for you and then perhaps more broadly for your business?
It's really a matter of, well, personally, further establishing a work-life balance.
I think I sometimes struggle with that and it's getting better every day.

(32:42):
And so a good year is knowing that I'm inserting balance into my life or my health,
for my people around me, for the things I love to do.
And then I would say the other thing more professionally would be that I have a team that is happy that feels like they're getting to work every day.
And maybe not every day, you know.

(33:03):
I don't have to be excited every day.
But generally, you work so much of your life.
And as a leader, my biggest goal of my career is to make sure they come to work and they enjoy what they're doing because most of their life is spent working.
And so that's a good year for me is to know that the team feels at peace with their role and what they're doing here.
And they're serving a bigger need or a purpose or whatever fills them.
And then I would say hitting our goals, that's always really exciting.

(33:27):
And having happy customers.
I love talking to happy customers.
And I also love talking to customers that aren't so happy and making them happy.
That's what I would say is a good year for me.
In terms of the work life balance and you've got a really big job, you run a big company.
What has actually worked for you in terms of creating a more healthy work life balance?

(33:48):
I think some of my work life balance, I'll just start with this and say that I love what I do so much.
And I love what Upright and Neatoscan does as a as a mission and as a business.
And then I love the actual like work that I'm doing that to a flaw.
I will like put on music after hours and just jam out doing like a financial analysis.

(34:10):
And that's like a good time to me.
So maybe a little weird.
I don't know.
But you know, I got to respect the nerdy.
Yes.
Yes.
So I think sometimes it's just recognizing while I might enjoy that, you know,
screen time isn't always the best.
It's not it's not the best way to rationalize it just because you enjoy something.
Doesn't mean that you need to be doing it all the time.

(34:31):
Because I also enjoy going to the dog park or going hiking with my fiance or hanging out with my dad, you know.
And so so yeah, I just it's it's waking up and saying this will be here.
And while you like it, there's things that you actually like more and you enter this world with love
and you leave this world with love.
You don't necessarily leave this world with your job.
And so I just sometimes need to make sure that that's at the forefront.

(34:55):
And I would say I've actually gotten pretty good comparatively to a year ago at that.
So.
Well said to zoom out a little bit and think in a bit of a philosophical sense, what does your work mean to you?
Yeah, I think I touched on this a little bit, but at the end of the day,
I really care about people.
I would say that I'm a pretty compassionate, like selfless person.

(35:16):
And so work means to me.
And if I look back on my career, success looks like to me being a leader that can help inspire people,
that can help grow people.
So I've spent time here growing people into new roles.
Quite a few of the executives have come up from IC or manager level.
And it's just investing in people because at the end of the day, they spend so much time working in their career

(35:41):
that if they feel invested in, they feel heard, they feel like they're growing, they feel like they have a purpose.
I feel like I've done something right here.
So that's really what my work means to me.
It's not about the money.
It's not about.
I don't know.
I mean, you have to perform, right?
But at the end of the day, it's about its people.
I imagine that from an outside perspective, seeing someone like you who's accomplished so much, right, who succeeded

(36:07):
academically, who succeeded in their professional life, who's made it all the way to running a multi million dollar company
at this stage in your career.
I imagine a lot of folks out there would imagine that this was like a perfect path.
Something that you have touched on a little bit that I'd love to hear a little bit more about is resilience.
And I'd love to know a little bit about your perspective on cultivating resilience and becoming a more resilient human.

(36:33):
How do you think about that?
It comes with practice.
It also comes with role models.
I think my grandfather was the biggest resilience role model I've ever seen.
I was raised by my grandparents and my father in the same house.
When I was, you know, in my teen years when I was helping the family business,

(36:54):
and as I mentioned, my dad had quit his really great job and started a business to be around his kids and really his father more
because my grandfather was always kind of sick while I was growing up.
And no matter how sick he was, he just always would be positive and pleasant and see the light in the dark.
And I'll never forget he was getting an open heart surgery and they told him, you know, it's 20% chance to live.

(37:17):
And he's like, all right, well, I'm going to die trying.
Maybe I'll live.
It's like rolls of rolls out of, you know, into the ER or the, the surgery room.
And he's just like waving and smiling and we're all like, yeah, this is, I guess we just have to like, you know, embrace his resilience
right now because it's terrifying.
And so through that, we had my father again was self-employed.

(37:40):
Finances were tough.
There was a lot of distractions around my grandfather's health.
And so when I was an undergrad is when it really got tough is my, my dad was really focused on helping my grandfather and I was helping
waitressing and undergrad and helping provide for the family.
And we had a lot of things growing up and then all of a sudden we had and lost essentially almost everything through, you know, family health

(38:05):
challenges and it's time that I would have never gotten back.
So like looking back, it was really hard in the moment and I didn't really understand it, but then looking back, it's, it's
time that I got more time with my grandfather because he got the support and care by the family that he, he needed to continue to survive and continue to fight.

(38:25):
And, you know, he would be just so positive in those darkest moments.
And so that's really where it all came from.
And so I just kind of like channel his energy.
I have a tattoo and it's the Beatles and it's let it be.
But this is like a summary of how I try to live my life and it comes from him.
And it's when the night is cloudy, there's still a light that shines on me shine on so tomorrow, let it be.

(38:48):
You know, there's been moments in my career where I've had what felt like setbacks and they were really hard or there's been, you know, personal relationships
and stuff that were really hard.
And I didn't even know in the moment how I was going to make it through it.
And I would just kind of try to channel his energy and say this one moment won't last forever.
And now looking back on those moments, they're the ones that made me so much of who I am that have made me

(39:13):
stronger that had made me more positive in the tough times.
I don't know if you've ever seen or anyone listening has ever seen the gift where someone's sitting there smiling and like everything's burning down behind them.
I think everything's fine.
Yes.
I actually have a shirt and I wear it.
My team knows it's not fine.
It says I find it's fine.
Everything's fine.
So if you see me wearing that shirt, everything's not fine, but we're going to smile and we're going to be resilient.

(39:38):
It's going to be fine.
Wow.
So classic.
It's a mindset.
It's a mindset truly.
And you have to believe in it.
So I just believe in it.
Yeah.
And through the the work that you've done, right, you've got.
I'm sure a whole range of interesting projects here.
We talked a little bit about ATS and what does ATS stand for?

(40:01):
America's bookstore.
Can you tell us a little bit about what that means to you and what the project was all about?
It's hard to think about my favorite project, but that one was really neat because it was the biggest
e-commerce secondhand launch we've ever done.
And so and it was the last one I did running the services business before becoming president.
It took six months of auditing and business planning and financial projections and process and logistics

(40:26):
and transportation changes within that organization that as a project leader, I helped spearhead with the team.
And then I actually from Florida drove up to Birmingham with my wonderful dog.
And we stayed at an Airbnb for three weeks, which usually these build outs and like business launches take
less than a week or about a week.
And I was there for three weeks.

(40:46):
And so I walk into a facility day one and it's a 25,000 square foot warehouse completely empty.
By the end of that week, it was a completely full e-commerce operating business.
It had all the shelving inventory, shipping stations, listing stations.
So myself and some contractors help really build out that facility in Alabama,

(41:10):
summer, 100 degree weather.
So that was fun.
And week two, the team started day one was 25 new employees that we helped with job descriptions and help support the
the ATS team in hiring there.
And then we trained all that staff and then within less than a month, they did 150,000 on the items that were shipped into e-commerce.

(41:34):
And now they are well over a couple years later, a multi-million dollar e-commerce facility.
And at the end of the day, all of that money, there's a lot more margin and money in the items that were already in their business operation.
So it was kind of really neat just to that quickly go from empty warehouse to six figure
or run rate of a million dollar business within our business in a sense, right?

(41:57):
It's like we are operating the services business and creating a multi-million dollar business.
Why we're at it?
So it was really fun and fulfilling.
That's awesome.
And the core function of this was to distribute nationally or what was the core role here?
Yeah.
So they wanted to one, just make more out of the items they have going through their business.
And then the second function really was to expand their footprint nationally.

(42:21):
So absolutely, when you do e-commerce, you now have a national presence.
And I would actually even say the third function, which wasn't a part of the initial launch, but later on was launching their wholesale site.
So not everything can sell in the store, not everything can sell online.
So what do you do with it?
And so you sell wholesale.
And so that was another part of it too, which is really a sustainable initiative so that things don't go into the waste stream.

(42:43):
Sure.
Purely out of my own curiosity, let's just say that there's someone out there who owns their own little thrift store and they're trying to figure out how to find, you know, the diamonds in the rough.
How do you think about finding the value in the inventory?
If you might not be aware of what the things are worth.
We have those answers here.

(43:04):
So I'll give you the answers if you weren't working with upright and then I'll give you the ones as if you were really at the end of the day, it's research.
So even just going on, you know, eBay and going to sold items and seeing what items are selling for looking at, you know, the top selling brands on e-commerce, you know, Lulu Lemon is one of those or Patagoni is another one.

(43:25):
So just think high end brands.
Jewelry is another big one. If you're an independent thrift reseller and you have a store, are you collecting jewelry? Jewelry is a massive category.
And if you're testing it or if you're selling it in lots, there's so much money to be made online versus in the store.
So it really comes down to what category and just researching and trying to understand it.
Now, working with upright, we have, you know, I think last year was, well, I don't want to speak out of turn, a multi million dollar, 100 million plus dollars going through our systems.

(43:55):
We have most of the Goodwill market, much of Salvation Army is in many other thrift operators.
And so all of those sales are going through our system.
And so we get to aggregate and analyze the data and say, well, here are the best selling brands and here are the best selling items.
And here's the price point.
And we essentially give guidance and recommendations on what they should be selling online and then guides for the stores so that when a donation comes in, someone knows this goes to the store floor and this goes to e-commerce.

(44:23):
Yeah.
How interesting.
And to think that the businesses like Salvation Army and Goodwill, you know, had not necessarily figured this out to the same degree that you had.
And now you're able to help so many more people generate so much more from a philanthropy standpoint and the revenue, you know, in the door.
What a beautiful thing.
That's that's tremendous.
Good for you guys.

(44:43):
I would, I would thank you.
I would like to say, thanks like I take credit, but I can't.
The founders of these businesses and those beginning employees are just incredible.
The niche that they fit.
Neatoscan start 18 years ago in the books, reselling space.
And then at the same time, yeah, so they, the founders of Neatoscan were pioneers truly or are pioneers truly.

(45:05):
And then the founders of Uprate were two college men that were trying to resell items online and just said, Oh, wait, this is difficult.
And then there and comes up right.
And so thank you.
And our team has done an incredible job of taking their vision and really helping grow it.
But it's incredible what they've come up with.

(45:26):
So let's change gears once more.
When you're thinking about how the world sees your job, what do you think people believe that you do in the day to day?
I think I think some people outsiders of the company looking in might be like what she probably just looks like numbers all day.
And she probably just like shows face potentially, right?

(45:47):
And I think our customers know though, I'm very involved.
I love talking to them.
I love going on site.
And so I think it's a mixed bag.
When you think about the team, I also know that the team knows I'm very involved.
So I think that it's almost like the orchestrator, right?
It's it's how can I help orchestrate any one department in support of them and be their advocate or guide them or just give them an extra hand.

(46:12):
So I think the team sees and feels that, but I think some people certainly see because I do try to be so involved and accessible that it's a probably stressful, stressful job and they don't know how I do it.
They're they we have emojis and slack and my emojis Wonder Woman.
So it's it's endearing.
But I think that I think some people don't understand and they just assume that I look at numbers and I think other people assume that probably do a little bit too much because you have to cover so many different.

(46:42):
And I think that's a different basis.
It's probably the balance of the two.
What do you wish people knew about the job of being the president of two separate businesses and kind of beginning to integrate those into one?
Yeah, I think the immediately the biggest challenge I've had in the last year came to mind and it's just having grace.

(47:03):
I am someone that has to answer every email as quickly as possible.
I'm someone that has, you know, tries to have a culture of excellent quite frankly.
But when you have so many things thrown at you, if grace can be given and know that either you're not the only person that needs support or you're not the only client that needs to be heard,

(47:24):
grace is really important.
And I think grace is really important to give everyone in every environment, not just, you know, this role.
I try to give grace.
If someone cuts me off while I'm driving, I don't think they're a terrible person right away.
It's, you know, give grace. They might have not been paying attention.
So I would just say the same as like try to give people grace.
But then I also would say, yeah, I think just giving grace.

(47:47):
Great advice for someone who might want to do your job someday, who might want to become the president of a business or a C-suite executive.
How would you help them set reasonable expectations on what that experience might be like?
The way that I would set reasonable expectations is know that it's okay to be uncomfortable,

(48:07):
to not know something and to ask questions, to lean on your team.
I always say like, you know, hire people smarter than you.
So it's okay to not know everything and it's okay to lean on other people.
You know, working with Corden's, our general manager, all the way to share and love the CEO of Corden's,
they're incredible at answering questions, asking questions, does it make you stupid?
It doesn't make you less than ask questions.

(48:30):
And then on the other side of the coin, follow through.
Your word means everything.
If you say you're going to do it, do it.
And attention to detail gets you a really far way to just crush your T's, dot your I's, and follow through.
That makes sense.
Let's talk a little bit about hiring.
I imagine you've interviewed and hired quite a few folks.

(48:51):
Can you tell me a little bit about your philosophy for hiring for your own team?
Yeah, the first thing I would say is,
people interviewing, whether you're hiring or interviewing, it's a matter of interviewing
the company as much as they are interviewing you.
Because I truly believe that that is how the company is going to know if you're a good fit.

(49:12):
And that's how you're going to know if you're a good fit.
You're both looking to not get into this probably for three months, but hopefully a few years.
And so without having, you know, that two-way street, you might miss some really important fundamental
things that yield to employee turnover.
And so for that person, it's really important for them to understand what they're getting into,

(49:32):
but it's also really important to ask questions so that the people hiring you
understands your mindset even more so than the questions they just want to ask you.
In terms of a good fit and finding someone, you mentioned that your direct reports,
the team that you work with are tremendous and outstanding.
What does a good fit mean to you in that sense?

(49:52):
First, I would say, and our interview process really does this, do you follow directions?
We have little gotchas, we do a challenge for any role that is hired here.
I also meet every role that is hired here.
So we do challenges to just see, you know, to title the document the way that we told you to.
That's attention to detail, but it's also just really following instructions.

(50:13):
I would also say, again, the follow-through is something that I vet for.
Did they follow up with you?
We even had one person that was hiring here.
I used to do this in my pass as mail thank you card, which is funny because we're all remote.
So finding our personal addresses is good on you for finding them.
Way to go.
But some sort of follow-through, right?

(50:33):
Show us that your eager show is that you have follow-through just in general.
I know some people might look at that as like, "Well, I'm not desperate for the job.
I don't have to follow through if they want me. They want me."
Well, no, that's not the case.
You're actually displaying so much more than just wanting this job.
You're showing that you follow through with things that you want and things that you said you want.
And so those are some big things that I would say.
The challenge also gets you into the life of the work you may be doing or maybe similar,

(50:59):
so that nothing is a blind side to both you, the hiring leader or the person applying.
They have a conceptual idea of how we might operate.
Is there a process through which you believe all hiring at your company should be done or
set a different way? Is there an ideal hiring process as you see it?

(51:20):
No, there's not an ideal process, I would say.
And I say that because we had an ideal process, but a company evolves and grows.
And we still do this most times more than not.
We do your basic phone interview and then we do a series of Zoom interviews.
Generally about four, some are around Robins, some are one-on-one.

(51:43):
There's always a culture interview at the end where I meet and some other team members meet them
depending on the role. And then we do that challenge.
So that is essentially the process. We also remove the names and the education on the resumes.
There's a following instructions thing. So when you submit your resume,
we'll historically be used to do this where your resume or your name and your education is removed

(52:06):
so that there's no bias. We try to remove as much bias and the person phone interviewing
doesn't tell us their gender or anything of that sort or anything about them personally other than
moving on in the conversation and the next stages of the challenge.
And then we're actually vetting their work before we really know anything about them.
So it was it yielded a lot of really great team members.

(52:26):
But I said that there's no exact process I think that's perfect because I would say now that
our company has evolved, don't fix what's not broken. And what I mean by that is we also hire
sometimes by referral. So for instance, our chief of staff, she was operates original sales director

(52:46):
and she had left during the acquisition. And I know that her and I fit like a glove. We operate
so great. So I didn't open that role. I hired her back as a chief of staff and I knew she would
do it great. And I will say that's one of the best decisions I've made here to have her as my
right hand person. And we've done that a few times too where we've hired where someone has

(53:07):
worked with them prior. And they certainly meet the team and they certainly interview. We don't
override those things, but we let everyone have their voice heard and you hire them. And sometimes
you don't need to open a job role. If you know that that experience with them before was great
and it wasn't broken and why not bring them in? Yeah, yeah, that makes that make sense. And

(53:27):
I think people out there, the writing that I see on LinkedIn talks about this hidden job
market sometimes or that roles are not posted and whatnot. And I think there's so many
circumstances where that's absolutely reasonable where a role is created for the person, right?
You know, it's going to work. You have a track record together. And I feel like, you know,
that can be such a beautiful thing, even though sometimes maybe it's perceived as,

(53:50):
I don't know, maybe not ideal, but that sounds like a really great call. I'm glad that worked out so
well. Yeah. And I would even say that about promotions, like we want to open roles and we have
to promote within or vet from hiring externally and internally, and we've done that and that's
gone really well. But we also just know when sometimes a promotion is open either because we talk

(54:15):
about taking each other's jobs and training them for it. So sometimes it's just a part of the plan
and then other times it's just the writing is so clear on the wall and it's okay to transfer
departments and put that person in that new role and they're deserving of it. They've been set up
for success for it. And that also makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So to all the applicants out there,
keep an eye out for the Easter egg and make sure that you've got clear communication about your

(54:39):
ambitions. Sounds like you'll do all right. Yes. And networking matters, networking matters. And
also, when you leave one job, I'm a firm believer and don't burn your bridge because that they
could hire you when they go somewhere else. They are going to be your reference. And so, it's not
just about applying the jobs. It's also about networking and not burning your bridges. And if

(55:01):
you have tough feedback when you're leaving a job, which I've done, do it with grace and kindness and
to help help that company. But there's no reason to attack a company or a business when you're
leaving. And there's always a positive and constructive way that you can exit if you are unhappy.
Well said. Great advice. What might compel you to take a chance on a candidate that you haven't met

(55:25):
or what in a resume or what in someone's approach might kind of give you that
nudge to say, all right, let's talk. Let's have a conversation or let's get you in the interview
process. I think, you know, we have met, I've hired a lot of people I haven't known. But the
thing that stands out to me the most is really great follow through emails that are personalized,

(55:47):
that don't just feel like you're doing what you were told you had to do in college.
But something that shows, you know, personalized approach. I also really appreciate when you do
research on the company and the people and they find a way to connect with you. I think there's
something to be said about energy and showing that you want to connect with another person because
we have a culture that is very connected. And so if you're displaying that you are someone that

(56:12):
wants to connect with me and you want to connect with our people, that means a lot because that's
where a lot of magic happens, you know, being a united team. So if you're reading our core values
on our website and you're kind of actually taking the time to understand what they actually mean
versus just reading the words, do your research, show that connection to the business. Don't just
kind of fake it because you were told that's what you had to do. So ways of research and follow through

(56:36):
makes a big difference. And quite frankly, just being yourself as much as you can and I know that's
really hard to do. But I come to an interview authentic. I will make jokes. I will sometimes say,
you know, you're interviewing me just as much as I'm interviewing you. And so you just said this was
important to you. And let me tell you why it's important to us or why it's not important to us.

(56:57):
And so I think those are really some some key pillars to be looking for.
Tremendous. In terms of management and leadership, can you tell us a little bit about how you think
about accountability and performance management? Accountability to me would really start first with
if I'm really concerned about holding someone accountable. I probably didn't hire the right

(57:20):
person or we didn't hire the right person. And after that, once you've figured that out,
you really just look at why something is happening first, why something's going wrong. And I never
assume the person first, I assume the process. And so you kind of just work through why did this
happen? Get an understanding, ask questions. One of our core values is be curious. Be curious
to understand why, why, where we are. And then if you get to the it's a people issue,

(57:45):
then you start with performance improvement plans, you give feedback, you show them kind of the
stepping stones to improve. And then at the end of the day, you know, transparent communication is
important. And so those performance plans need to be clear, those emails or those conversations
need to be put in writing so they can distill what we just discussed. So it's really being kind of

(58:07):
patient and being thorough and being clear if we get to the people challenge of accountability.
That's great. As we bring this conversation to a close and we shift our sights over to the future
at a macro level, just in terms of the world as you see it now, what are you excited about for the
future? I'm excited about the sustainability initiatives that businesses are doing, especially

(58:31):
in the space, recycling waste into new goods, finding more ways to sell wholesale online,
just finding ways to remove things from the landfill. That really excites me. I've always wanted to
be a businesswoman in a sense, but also a humanitarian. So I think that there's a lot of people that

(58:52):
are really focused on making a difference on our environment and our planet. So just generally,
I'm excited about that. Here at Corden's and Upright and Neatoscan, I'm excited for the next few years
to be a little bit less chaotic. My team would probably tease me and say, "You don't know what's
going to happen." You're right, I don't have a crystal ball. But we've grown very quickly,

(59:16):
and then we sold. Then we sold again in a sense, another company, and then we're merging.
Change is hard and also fun, but it's nice that it feels like we're getting our feet really under
us. Luckily, our clients really haven't felt the impact of all that change to the level that maybe
internally we have, but it will be nice to just really innovate and grow the foundation that we

(59:42):
just spent the last two and a half years building. Good for you guys. For handling those big changes
with such grace, it is not easy from a broader change management standpoint to have the clients
not really feel the effect of such huge changes. Way to go. Yeah. What do you think your field
is actually going to look like in 2036, six years from now? It's the summer of 2024 now.

(01:00:07):
Yeah. I think there will be a much greater automation. We're working on things like price
prediction, where when you start to list an item, it tells you what the price should be,
rather than just assuming a price because it's a use good. A lot of AI and automation,
just more and more going digital. Salvage in these organizations are often done physical in person

(01:00:31):
and not listed online. I'm seeing more and more sustainability initiatives by making it go online.
The e-commerce space in general is just constantly growing year over year. When you look at second
hand and the reusing of goods, that growth trajectory is also incredible. Even when you look back,
when Upright First started to now, the growth trajectory has been incredible in this space. I

(01:00:53):
think with more automation and more of a focus on this space, we're just going to see
the catapulting of this business, as well as other businesses in the similar space moving forward.
Right. That's awesome. How do you like to waste time? I like to waste time. I would say,
I don't know that it's a waste of time, actually, but my free time, maybe. Well, first off, there's

(01:01:18):
every now and then when you have a stressful job, or maybe this is my excuse, I like to watch
some really bad TV shows and by bad TV shows, just the reality TV shows that are ridiculous.
But when I said, I don't know if it's waste time. In my free time, I spent a lot of times with my
fiance and my dogs. We just either hang out on our patio and we talk or we watch our shows together.

(01:01:39):
We just do our routines and I think that that's a really, again, you leave this world with love
and you enter it with love. To me, that's not a waste of time though. If I were to actually drill
down into a way that I waste time, maybe, I try to limit it this, but scrolling through social
media, I really do love a good dog and cat meme. So maybe that's my actual wasting time is just

(01:02:04):
scrolling and laughing at funny things on Instagram. That sounds like a worthy way to unplug and relax.
So, Siera, you've been so very generous with all your wisdom and your time. Thank you so much for
taking the time and sharing your perspective. Awesome. Thank you so much, Ryan. Our next episode
is with Dr. Callie Holt, veterinary anatomic pathologist with the Smithsonian's National Zoo

(01:02:28):
and Conservation Biology Institute. Being able to approach these novel challenges with expertise
is something that I find really rewarding. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe
for new episodes, leave a review, and tell a friend. GoodFit Careers is hosted by me, Ryan
Dickerson, and is produced and edited by Melo-Vox Productions. Marketing is by StoryAngled,

(01:02:54):
and our theme music is by Surftronica with additional music from Andrew Espronceda.
I'd like to express my gratitude to all of our guests for sharing their time,
stories, and perspectives with us. And finally, thank you to all of our listeners.
If you have any recommendations on future guests, questions, or comments, please send us an email
at [e-mail].