September 9, 2025 • 23 mins
What makes Dr. Sandra Newes a good neighbor?
Suffering doesn't have to be permanent. That's the powerful message Dr. Sandra Newes brings to this eye-opening conversation about ketamine-assisted psychotherapy (KAP) - an innovative approach helping people find relief when traditional treatments fall short.
With over 25 years of experience as a psychologist, Dr. Newes specializes in helping individuals with chronic stress, anxiety, depression, and trauma. She explains how ketamine's unique properties allow patients to process deeply held trauma that's otherwise inaccessible, creating breakthrough moments for those who've struggled for years. "It allows them to see themselves differently," she explains, helping people escape that persistent "grinding feeling" of anxiety or the "heavy blanket" of depression.
What makes this conversation particularly fascinating is learning how ketamine evolved from an emergency room anesthetic to a powerful therapeutic tool. Dr. Newes walks us through the comprehensive treatment process that includes preparation sessions, medicine experiences, and integration work - all carefully guided by trained professionals. The science is compelling, but it's the human element that truly resonates as she shares how this approach has transformed lives when nothing else worked.
Beyond her clinical practice, Dr. Newes discusses her work with the Living Medicine Institute, where she trains medical and mental health professionals in this emerging field. She addresses common misconceptions, emphasizing that ketamine therapy isn't "overly crazy" or exclusively for those already familiar with psychedelics. In fact, she notes that those who benefit most are often individuals who've never explored alternative states of consciousness.
Whether you're someone struggling with persistent mental health challenges, a professional interested in expanding your therapeutic toolkit, or simply curious about cutting-edge approaches to healing, this conversation offers valuable insights into what might be possible. As Dr. Newes so powerfully states: "Suffering is pervasive, and there are ways out of suffering." Her work represents one such pathway, bringing hope to those who need it most.
Discover more about Dr. Sandra Newes's work at sandranewes.com or learn about professional training opportunities at livingmedicineinstitute.com.
To learn more about Dr. Sandra Newes go to:
Dr. Sandra Newes
(828) 545-0437
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place
where local businesses andneighbors come together.
Here's your host, Skip Monty.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, hello everyone and welcome to the Good Neighbor
Podcast.
So I am very excited today tohave a very special guest in our
studio, and I'm sure you willbe as well, because today I have
the pleasure of introducingyour good neighbor, dr Sandra
Nunes, who is the owner operatorof Clearview Psychological
(00:32):
Services.
Dr Nunes, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi there, Thanks so much for having me Skip.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, we're thrilled to have you, like I said,
excited to learn all about youand what you do.
So if you don't mind, why don'tyou kick us off by telling us
about your business?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
good.
So, um, yeah, so I'm dr Sandranewest.
A lot of people call me sandy.
You can find me as both onlineand I am a psychologist in
Asheville, north Carolina and Ihave over 25 years of experience
working with kind of complexissues chronic stress, anxiety,
depression, underlying kind ofcomplex issues, chronic stress,
anxiety, depression, underlyingkind of you know developmental
(01:08):
and relational trauma and PTSDand I currently do
ketamine-assisted psychotherapyto work with all of those issues
and it's a really intensiveclinical intervention where we
use the medicine ketamine as atool to really help get at
underlying issues that are oftenreally difficult to get to with
(01:29):
kind of traditional mentalhealth practices and I found it
to be really effective as partof a psychotherapy process for
people that have really had alifetime of suffering.
And then I also have LivingMedicine Institute, which is a
business where we providetraining resources and content
to clinical and medicalprofessionals who are actually
(01:50):
interested in learning aboutketamine-assisted psychotherapy
and how to incorporate that intotheir practice.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Wow, fascinating.
You do a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
You sound busy, well, I mean it's really kind,
longstanding, you know,struggles that they have tried
(02:25):
to address through differenttypes of therapy, different
types of medications, and theyjust can't get to where they can
really get rid of that kind ofgrinding feeling in their belly
or in their, you know, in theirstomachs that just kind of like
keep them in that perpetualstate of you know like kind of
feeling like the world's aboutto fall apart and or just that
depression.
(02:45):
That's just like that heavyblanket and, and you know, while
it ketamine and working withthat as part of ketamine,
assisted psychotherapy, which werefer to as CAP, is not it's
not, you know panacea and it'snot a perfect tool and it
doesn't work for everybody.
It definitely has beensomething that has brought, you
know, a lot of people relief inways that nothing else that I've
(03:08):
tried up until this point has,and I have really done a lot of
different types of therapy andhave been at this for a long
time.
So I'm sold, I love it, I thinkit's really effective and I
also enjoy teaching and trainingabout it.
So it's an exciting new way ofhelping people relieve suffering
.
How did you get?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
started in the psychological arena.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, well, I mean I've been studying psychotherapy
since 1993.
But in terms of working withpsychedelic-assisted
psychotherapy, I've beentracking the research of that
really since the 90s and havebeen following that and my whole
career has been about variousforms of non-ordinary states.
So I did outdoor-basedtherapeutic work, I've done
(03:55):
mindfulness work.
I've done, you know, differenttypes of mindfulness practices
and wilderness work and you knowdance and movement and other
forms of experiential types ofpsychotherapy.
So I was already doing thatwork and then as I became as
kind of, you know, psychedelicassisted psychotherapy started
to move, you know, into thepublic awareness in maybe you
(04:19):
know around I don't know theresearch around other types of
psychedelics and MDMA started inthe, also in the nineties, and
so really tracking that and thenkind of coming to realize that
ketamine has never been illegaland that actually has a lot of
those same properties and it'sdone in a medically supervised
way, we do it either I do iteither in my individual therapy
(04:42):
office without a medical teamthere, where we use an
intranasal administration whichis much more affordable, or I
also work at a local clinic thatdoes IV ketamine and that's
more of a medically supervisedapproach and there's a
difference in cost and kind ofpros and cons of each of the
different approaches.
But I really did a deep diveinto this from 2019 on and I
(05:05):
have been working in that fieldfull-time ever since, so that's
my entire practice involves that, and what's important for
people to understand is thatit's not just the medicine
session.
So people can go to a ketamineclinic and just get ketamine,
which can also be helpful, oftenbe quite helpful for,
especially for treatment,resistant depression.
But when we start to get intomore kind of anxiety, trauma,
(05:29):
ptsd, chronic stress, otherthings that are either
associated with the depressionor underneath the depression,
then I highly recommend workingwith a trained therapist at the
same time.
Depression, then I highlyrecommend working with a trained
therapist at the same time.
And so as part of that, we dopreparation sessions, where we
do several sessions in advanceto really get to know you, help
establish your treatment goals,help really understand what's
(05:51):
underneath the issues that arebringing you to treatment.
And then integration as well,where we meet after every
medicine session or in anongoing fashion and talk about
what came up in the medicinesession, help situate that
within your treatment goals andreally you know, understand how
that can treat all of youinstead of just addressing the
(06:12):
symptoms.
So it's a very powerful kind ofyou know, intervention that
covers a lot of differentaspects of people's lives.
So I got into it because I justfound it to be incredibly
interesting and then, as I beganto learn more about it and I
frankly tried it myself, it'sextraordinarily powerful.
And then the training emergedjust kind of recognizing that
(06:33):
there's not a real clear pathfor clinical professionals and
medical professionals,therapists of all sorts to
really get their training needsLike how do we find out about
this, how do we get into this,how do we learn how to do it
effectively and utilize it aspart of a clinical process to,
again, you know, help peoplethat are struggling and so,
(06:54):
understanding that there was aneed, like once I got, you know,
really deeply into this andfelt really competent and had
learned it and was doing thework, then also just switched
into providing training and alsosupervision for people that are
interested in that.
So ketamine came out of workingin the emergency rooms.
So ketamine what's differentabout ketamine versus, like
(07:15):
psilocybin or MDMA or LSD oranything other?
If people are tracking thisthat you might be aware of the
fact that there's there's anincreasing body of research
showing that these medicines canbe really helpful for
longstanding and chronic mentalhealth issues.
But like it's really part of atherapeutic process, but with
ketamine itself, it actuallycame out of the emergency room.
So they started using it duringthe Vietnam era, war era, just
(07:37):
because it's a short actinganesthetic that has no known
side effects.
With as particularly withcardiac or breathing, there are
almost no side effects.
It's extraordinarily, um, safe.
And so then they also, as itmoved into the emergency room
and they began to use it, likemy five-year-old got it when he
was, when he broke his arm whenhe was five.
Um, so they gave it to him.
(07:58):
He was, you know, kind of ofknocked out for like 20 minutes
where they could set his arm.
So they use it in that way.
We've had emergency room doctorssay you know, we use this like
water in the ER, like it is very, very, very safe physically.
And then they began to noticethat emergency rooms have a lot
of people who come in and outthat have chronic, longstanding
(08:18):
mental health issues and areoften actively suicidal.
And so they began to realizethat these people who were often
in and out of the emergencyrooms regularly were actually
reporting that their suicidalitythat's the clinical term that
we use, their suicidal thoughtsum were remitting and and
associated with that was thatdepression was also remitting,
(08:39):
but they found out that it wasreally only lasting a couple
weeks and then it would comeback.
So out of that finding, whichwas pretty consistent across
emergency rooms across thecountry, began to realize that
if we also layer inpsychotherapy or do several
sessions in close proximity toeach other, that we can extend
(08:59):
that benefit Much more effectivefor people with longstanding
issues than just traditionalpsychotherapy or medication
alone.
So it's kind of taking the bestthat medication has to offer,
the pharmacological benefits,layering it in with
psychotherapy, but then it worksdifferently, like being under
(09:19):
the influence of the medicine,allows people to process things
that are otherwise reallydifficult to get at.
It allows them to seethemselves differently.
It allows them to experiencethemselves differently and to
kind of move out into the worldwithout experiencing the
negative effect of having thesesymptoms, and really experience
(09:40):
the world in a different way.
So it's a very differentprocess that has a lot of
similarities to traditionalpsychotherapy, with the added
benefit of what you know themedicine brings, and then it
also is a powerfulpharmacological effect.
So, particularly for depressionsomewhat less so for anxiety
again, because it's more complexand it's embedded into the
(10:00):
nervous system.
But working with it in that way, I'm just seeing really
different results for peoplethat have been struggling for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
So very cool and fascinating.
I am just intrigued.
So, doc, what you do for funwhen you're not treating people,
helping people.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Well, I am kind of all about non-ordinary states in
general, so I like, I likeanything that kind of takes me
out of the ordinary realm.
So I really like swimming holes, I like water slides, I like
whitewater paddling, I likerivers of all sorts, I like
going on lakes, I enjoy dancingand kind of, you know, getting
(10:43):
deeply into dancing.
I have two kids that are 12 and14 and I enjoy getting them out
on rivers and out in the woodsand we also ski and do a lot of
adventure-based activities andyou know this region, you know
these mountains and these riversare just beautiful for that.
So I do a lot of that, yeah,and I honestly I'm really into
(11:05):
this work, so I do a lot ofstudy with this work and it kind
of expands into, you know,different types of consciousness
and meditation and mindfulness,and so there's a lot of
different things that informthis, so that I find just
inherently interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Can you describe a hardship or a life challenge,
either professionally orpersonally, that you've overcome
and how it made you stronger onthe other side?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Sure, I mean I, you know, have my own trauma history
.
So you know different types ofrelational struggles and
different challengingexperiences that I've
encountered in my life andreally you know there's a whole
lot of kind of you know you hearthat healer, hear thyself, and
there's a whole lot of that tome.
(11:48):
So, you know, kind ofcontinually working on exploring
different ways that help mewhat is really ultimately adjust
my nervous system, because somany of the things that people
struggle with are about the waysthat our brains and our nervous
system respond to, you know,terrifying, overwhelming or
life-threatening events.
(12:08):
And it's important to recognizethat it's not just, you know,
something that actually couldhave killed you, but that our
nervous systems perceive kind ofa lack of safety in
relationship and a lack ofbelonging, and you know things
associated with that as alife-threatening event, like as
something that is trying to killus or eat us.
So when you experience some ofthat as you're growing up and as
(12:28):
you go through life, yournervous system kind of is on
hyper alert for threat.
And so being, you know, in aprocess of studying
psychotherapy and differentforms of psychotherapy
throughout my own life, as I'vebeen on my own healing journey,
which you know ultimately hasincluded psychedelics and
ketamine work as well, is justsomething.
(12:49):
It's a super interesting process.
And then really, things likekayaking and things like that,
like challenging your ownbeliefs and, you know,
self-limiting beliefs, and youknow how can that take us to the
next level and really has justpropelled me to spend my entire
life kind of questing fordifferent ways of healing and
different ways of working andand also just different ways of
finding joy.
(13:09):
You know, how can we deepeninto joy and well-being, which
is another thing that this workwith ketamine really does for
people is to help us just godeeper into, you know, being
more present in our lives andappreciating that and being able
to, you know, kind of expandwhat's good and to notice it and
appreciate it.
So you know, and then justreally, you know, carving out a
(13:31):
niche in a new and developingfield like this is, you know,
there's there.
There has been a lot of stigmaattached to this kind of work,
really even psychotherapy, butyou know, and kind of just you
know, overcoming that andhelping to really just make
those things normal and helppeople recognize that suffering
is, you know is pretty pervasiveand that there are tools
(13:52):
available to help with that andthere's lots of different ways
to go about that.
And so you know, really, youknow career wise, like
overcoming those stigmas andcontinuing to carve out places
in the in the professional arenathat are kind of atypical or
cutting edge.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
So yeah, you've sold me at it too, actually.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah.
So if, if you could think ofone thing, Sandy, if you don't
mind me calling you, dr Sandyyeah.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
If you could think of one thing that you would like
our listeners to remember aboutyou and about your psychological
services and the LivingMedicine Institute, what would
that be?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean related to some of what I've said, like
suffering is pervasive and thereare ways out of suffering.
So you know we're all going tosuffer some.
But if you're kind of stuck ina cycle where you know that
there can be more, where youknow that you're living with
(14:56):
kind of a persistent, likegrinding kind of anxiety or that
depression is just making itreally difficult to get off the
couch and you feel like you'vetried everything and there's
just no way through that, thatthere are additional ways, this
kind of emerging field ofpsychedelic assisted
psychotherapy is somethingthat's worth tracking and
(15:17):
ketamine work and I know it is.
I'll just name it.
It's out of pocket, insurancedoes not cover it, so that's a
barrier to many people and I dounderstand that.
Like I said, there's kind ofthe lower cost way through
intranasal that I offer, as wellas the IV clinics, which are
more expensive and again, prosand cons to each.
But there are ways to feelbetter and I just want to really
(15:39):
tell people keep working at itand there are ways to feel
better.
And if you can really take on Icall it, take on the personal
project of continuing to try towork through that and recognize
that taking care of your body,taking care of your mind, taking
care of your heart, but alsoaccessing tools and skills that
(15:59):
are available to you with askilled therapist.
And you know pharmacologicaleffects, like ketamine.
A lot of people have reallynegative side effects from a lot
of the meds that people takeand and they, you know they
often run their course.
So this can provide people witha great deal of relief, and so
(16:20):
I want to just kind of say thatand hold that out and say you
know that's available to you,whether that's you know, whether
you come to Asheville to workwith me or whether you find
somebody in your own communityto work with.
That you know there is.
There are ways and many peopledo find relief with this that
have never been helped before.
And for professionals who arekind of burned out and, you know
(16:43):
, tired of doing things the sameold way, this is also, you know
, a pathway for you.
It is open to, you know, allmedical professionals who are
able to do prescribing work andit is open to all therapists.
There is no actualcertification requirement, which
is weird, like it's kind of thewild west, but it's not Like
we're getting better and betterat professionalism and ethics
(17:03):
and standards and that's what westand for in our training
program is doing it well and youknow.
So get the training, come andsee what it's all about.
Come check it out.
We have a retreat coming up inSeptember for clinical and
medical professionals outside ofAsheville.
That's a great way to start andit's a really interesting place
to situate your career.
(17:25):
That again can kind of be anadjunct to what you're already
doing and help bring someexcitement and bring some new
ways of doing things.
So it's it's really exciting,it's super interesting.
There's nothing overly weirdabout it.
Like it's not too terrifying,it's not too strange I mean it
is.
I guess you know the space.
If you're kind of, you come inand you know what just said.
(17:46):
Also, if you don't mind, Iwould just tell people what it
is a little bit.
You know you come in and you get, you know you're under the
influence for about 45 minutes.
During that time we get yousituated.
Like I said, we do severaldifferent preparation sessions
beforehand that look a lot liketraditional therapy.
We come in and you know, haveyou get situated and then we
administer the medicine in thatsession.
(18:07):
Those sessions are about twohours long and you're under the
influence for about an hour ofthat time, getting situated and
then coming out of it.
And the whole time that you'recared for and you're supportive
and you know we're actuallytalking and processing
throughout, kind of noticingwhat comes up.
So you know, and and we're youknow the team that I work with
we know what we're doing, sowe're not going to send you kind
(18:29):
of off into orbit in a waythat's super terrifying.
And we're, we're with you thewhole time and you know, and
then, as you come out of it,there's there's very little
hangover effect.
You might notice kind ofsomething for a couple hours,
but, um, and then you kind of,you know, go about your business
and then we, you know, keepconnecting in that way.
So it's, it's not like, you know, some people have done other
(18:50):
types of psychedelics or theymight have misconceptions about
it, but it's.
It's not, like you know, somepeople have done other types of
psychedelics or they might havemisconceptions about it, but
it's not overly crazy.
It fits very well into aperson's life.
It's not super terrifying andit is definitely not only for
people who've already triedpsychedelics, like the vast
majority of my clients, as wellas the professionals who come
and train with us, have reallyeither done very little or did
(19:12):
it a long time ago, or havenever done it at all, and so
it's not that it's only forpeople who are interested in
that.
In fact, I might say theopposite that sometimes the
people who find the most benefitfrom it are people who never
really explored themselves orthose sort of non-ordinary
realms in those ways, and so soI just, you know, and I want to
(19:34):
just kind of like burst thatbubble about, like this is weird
and this is scary, and you knowwhat is this and what are these
people doing.
And you know, recognize that,you know I'm a licensed
professional, I've been doingthis work, for I've been doing
this work since 2019.
But I've been, you know,working in with in mental health
since the mid to mid 90s andyou know, so really incorporate
the work with the medicine inwith all the other psychotherapy
(19:58):
tools that I've been usingthroughout my career.
So it's it's an exciting timeand it's a really interesting
and different type of approach.
So I just want to invite peopleto come try it out.
Well, I want to also, if Imight.
I mean, I one of the things whenI do teaching about this, as I
tell people, is likerecreational use of, you know,
psychedelic medicine, or evenspecifically, ketamine, um, and
(20:19):
medically supervised, clinicallyinformed use are like meat and
fruit, like you can eat themboth, but they're not the same,
like you know.
They're different in everylevel.
And so, you know, imagine aworld where you come in and you
have a trained therapist who youknow really takes the time to
get to know you, understand yourhistory, understand the things
(20:41):
that might be driving some ofthe symptoms, help you set up
treatment goals, guide youthrough the medicine journey,
and then we meet within 24 to 48hours to kind of go over the
session and and really situateit into your life so that it has
meaning.
And that's a really differentexperience than you know some
other psychedelic use in someother context that you know
(21:04):
somebody may have experienced.
So it's.
It's just that you know,medically supervised and
clinically driven part iscentral to the whole process.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Very good.
Like I said, I'm intrigued.
I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Great yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
So if any of our listeners are like me and or
they're a medical professionalthat's interested in learning
more about the training, wherecan they find out more?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Great.
So you can find me and myprivate practice online at
sandranewiscom.
Or you can find me onPsychology Today also, sandra
Newis and Ketamine-AssistedPsychotherapy.
Type in Asheville, and type inmy name, sandra Newis, n-e-w-e-s
in Psychology Today, or justtype that into the browser and
(21:50):
you'll come up with that thatway, and then the training
program islivingmedicineinstitutecom.
So again, it'slivingmedicineinstitutecom and
we do have a training retreatfor clinical and medical
professionals coming upSeptember night through the 11th
, and then we start our onlineclinical intensive, which is 16
weeks online meets every otherweek and you also do your own
(22:10):
medicine work in between, andthat starts in October and
that's more of a deep dive intothe how to's of how to do it.
So if you're interested, theretreat is a good entry point.
If you want to learn more aboutthe how to's, you can do the
retreat and that, or just theclinical or just the level one
clinical intensive.
So, and I do have room in mypractice right now, so I'd be
(22:32):
happy to talk with peopleAwesome.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Awesome.
Well, doc, I can't tell you howmuch.
I hope you don't mind mecalling you doc.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I can't say how much I appreciate you taking time out
of your busy schedule to talkwith me and with our listeners
and wish you and your practiceand your family, your boys all
the best moving forward.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Thank you, Skip.
I really appreciate thisopportunity and appreciate the
chance to be here with you.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Absolutely.
Maybe we can have you backsometime.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
That sounds great.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
All right, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Thank you for listening to the good neighbor
podcast.
To nominate your favorite localbusinesses to be featured on
the show, go to gnptry-citiescom.
That's gnptry-citiescom, orcall 423-719-5873.
Thank you.
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place
where local businesses andneighbors come together.
Here's your host, Skip Monty.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, hello everyone and welcome to the Good Neighbor
Podcast.
So I am very excited today tohave a very special guest in our
studio, and I'm sure you willbe as well, because today I have
the pleasure of introducingyour good neighbor, dr Sandra
Nunes, who is the owner operatorof Clearview Psychological
(00:32):
Services.
Dr Nunes, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi there, Thanks so much for having me Skip.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, we're thrilled to have you, like I said,
excited to learn all about youand what you do.
So if you don't mind, why don'tyou kick us off by telling us
about your business?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
good.
So, um, yeah, so I'm dr Sandranewest.
A lot of people call me sandy.
You can find me as both onlineand I am a psychologist in
Asheville, north Carolina and Ihave over 25 years of experience
working with kind of complexissues chronic stress, anxiety,
depression, underlying kind ofcomplex issues, chronic stress,
anxiety, depression, underlyingkind of you know developmental
(01:08):
and relational trauma and PTSDand I currently do
ketamine-assisted psychotherapyto work with all of those issues
and it's a really intensiveclinical intervention where we
use the medicine ketamine as atool to really help get at
underlying issues that are oftenreally difficult to get to with
(01:29):
kind of traditional mentalhealth practices and I found it
to be really effective as partof a psychotherapy process for
people that have really had alifetime of suffering.
And then I also have LivingMedicine Institute, which is a
business where we providetraining resources and content
to clinical and medicalprofessionals who are actually
(01:50):
interested in learning aboutketamine-assisted psychotherapy
and how to incorporate that intotheir practice.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Wow, fascinating.
You do a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
You sound busy, well, I mean it's really kind,
longstanding, you know,struggles that they have tried
(02:25):
to address through differenttypes of therapy, different
types of medications, and theyjust can't get to where they can
really get rid of that kind ofgrinding feeling in their belly
or in their, you know, in theirstomachs that just kind of like
keep them in that perpetualstate of you know like kind of
feeling like the world's aboutto fall apart and or just that
depression.
(02:45):
That's just like that heavyblanket and, and you know, while
it ketamine and working withthat as part of ketamine,
assisted psychotherapy, which werefer to as CAP, is not it's
not, you know panacea and it'snot a perfect tool and it
doesn't work for everybody.
It definitely has beensomething that has brought, you
know, a lot of people relief inways that nothing else that I've
(03:08):
tried up until this point has,and I have really done a lot of
different types of therapy andhave been at this for a long
time.
So I'm sold, I love it, I thinkit's really effective and I
also enjoy teaching and trainingabout it.
So it's an exciting new way ofhelping people relieve suffering
.
How did you get?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
started in the psychological arena.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, well, I mean I've been studying psychotherapy
since 1993.
But in terms of working withpsychedelic-assisted
psychotherapy, I've beentracking the research of that
really since the 90s and havebeen following that and my whole
career has been about variousforms of non-ordinary states.
So I did outdoor-basedtherapeutic work, I've done
(03:55):
mindfulness work.
I've done, you know, differenttypes of mindfulness practices
and wilderness work and you knowdance and movement and other
forms of experiential types ofpsychotherapy.
So I was already doing thatwork and then as I became as
kind of, you know, psychedelicassisted psychotherapy started
to move, you know, into thepublic awareness in maybe you
(04:19):
know around I don't know theresearch around other types of
psychedelics and MDMA started inthe, also in the nineties, and
so really tracking that and thenkind of coming to realize that
ketamine has never been illegaland that actually has a lot of
those same properties and it'sdone in a medically supervised
way, we do it either I do iteither in my individual therapy
(04:42):
office without a medical teamthere, where we use an
intranasal administration whichis much more affordable, or I
also work at a local clinic thatdoes IV ketamine and that's
more of a medically supervisedapproach and there's a
difference in cost and kind ofpros and cons of each of the
different approaches.
But I really did a deep diveinto this from 2019 on and I
(05:05):
have been working in that fieldfull-time ever since, so that's
my entire practice involves that, and what's important for
people to understand is thatit's not just the medicine
session.
So people can go to a ketamineclinic and just get ketamine,
which can also be helpful, oftenbe quite helpful for,
especially for treatment,resistant depression.
But when we start to get intomore kind of anxiety, trauma,
(05:29):
ptsd, chronic stress, otherthings that are either
associated with the depressionor underneath the depression,
then I highly recommend workingwith a trained therapist at the
same time.
Depression, then I highlyrecommend working with a trained
therapist at the same time.
And so as part of that, we dopreparation sessions, where we
do several sessions in advanceto really get to know you, help
establish your treatment goals,help really understand what's
(05:51):
underneath the issues that arebringing you to treatment.
And then integration as well,where we meet after every
medicine session or in anongoing fashion and talk about
what came up in the medicinesession, help situate that
within your treatment goals andreally you know, understand how
that can treat all of youinstead of just addressing the
(06:12):
symptoms.
So it's a very powerful kind ofyou know, intervention that
covers a lot of differentaspects of people's lives.
So I got into it because I justfound it to be incredibly
interesting and then, as I beganto learn more about it and I
frankly tried it myself, it'sextraordinarily powerful.
And then the training emergedjust kind of recognizing that
(06:33):
there's not a real clear pathfor clinical professionals and
medical professionals,therapists of all sorts to
really get their training needsLike how do we find out about
this, how do we get into this,how do we learn how to do it
effectively and utilize it aspart of a clinical process to,
again, you know, help peoplethat are struggling and so,
(06:54):
understanding that there was aneed, like once I got, you know,
really deeply into this andfelt really competent and had
learned it and was doing thework, then also just switched
into providing training and alsosupervision for people that are
interested in that.
So ketamine came out of workingin the emergency rooms.
So ketamine what's differentabout ketamine versus, like
(07:15):
psilocybin or MDMA or LSD oranything other?
If people are tracking thisthat you might be aware of the
fact that there's there's anincreasing body of research
showing that these medicines canbe really helpful for
longstanding and chronic mentalhealth issues.
But like it's really part of atherapeutic process, but with
ketamine itself, it actuallycame out of the emergency room.
So they started using it duringthe Vietnam era, war era, just
(07:37):
because it's a short actinganesthetic that has no known
side effects.
With as particularly withcardiac or breathing, there are
almost no side effects.
It's extraordinarily, um, safe.
And so then they also, as itmoved into the emergency room
and they began to use it, likemy five-year-old got it when he
was, when he broke his arm whenhe was five.
Um, so they gave it to him.
(07:58):
He was, you know, kind of ofknocked out for like 20 minutes
where they could set his arm.
So they use it in that way.
We've had emergency room doctorssay you know, we use this like
water in the ER, like it is very, very, very safe physically.
And then they began to noticethat emergency rooms have a lot
of people who come in and outthat have chronic, longstanding
(08:18):
mental health issues and areoften actively suicidal.
And so they began to realizethat these people who were often
in and out of the emergencyrooms regularly were actually
reporting that their suicidalitythat's the clinical term that
we use, their suicidal thoughtsum were remitting and and
associated with that was thatdepression was also remitting,
(08:39):
but they found out that it wasreally only lasting a couple
weeks and then it would comeback.
So out of that finding, whichwas pretty consistent across
emergency rooms across thecountry, began to realize that
if we also layer inpsychotherapy or do several
sessions in close proximity toeach other, that we can extend
(08:59):
that benefit Much more effectivefor people with longstanding
issues than just traditionalpsychotherapy or medication
alone.
So it's kind of taking the bestthat medication has to offer,
the pharmacological benefits,layering it in with
psychotherapy, but then it worksdifferently, like being under
(09:19):
the influence of the medicine,allows people to process things
that are otherwise reallydifficult to get at.
It allows them to seethemselves differently.
It allows them to experiencethemselves differently and to
kind of move out into the worldwithout experiencing the
negative effect of having thesesymptoms, and really experience
(09:40):
the world in a different way.
So it's a very differentprocess that has a lot of
similarities to traditionalpsychotherapy, with the added
benefit of what you know themedicine brings, and then it
also is a powerfulpharmacological effect.
So, particularly for depressionsomewhat less so for anxiety
again, because it's more complexand it's embedded into the
(10:00):
nervous system.
But working with it in that way, I'm just seeing really
different results for peoplethat have been struggling for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
So very cool and fascinating.
I am just intrigued.
So, doc, what you do for funwhen you're not treating people,
helping people.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Well, I am kind of all about non-ordinary states in
general, so I like, I likeanything that kind of takes me
out of the ordinary realm.
So I really like swimming holes, I like water slides, I like
whitewater paddling, I likerivers of all sorts, I like
going on lakes, I enjoy dancingand kind of, you know, getting
(10:43):
deeply into dancing.
I have two kids that are 12 and14 and I enjoy getting them out
on rivers and out in the woodsand we also ski and do a lot of
adventure-based activities andyou know this region, you know
these mountains and these riversare just beautiful for that.
So I do a lot of that, yeah,and I honestly I'm really into
(11:05):
this work, so I do a lot ofstudy with this work and it kind
of expands into, you know,different types of consciousness
and meditation and mindfulness,and so there's a lot of
different things that informthis, so that I find just
inherently interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Can you describe a hardship or a life challenge,
either professionally orpersonally, that you've overcome
and how it made you stronger onthe other side?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Sure, I mean I, you know, have my own trauma history
.
So you know different types ofrelational struggles and
different challengingexperiences that I've
encountered in my life andreally you know there's a whole
lot of kind of you know you hearthat healer, hear thyself, and
there's a whole lot of that tome.
(11:48):
So, you know, kind ofcontinually working on exploring
different ways that help mewhat is really ultimately adjust
my nervous system, because somany of the things that people
struggle with are about the waysthat our brains and our nervous
system respond to, you know,terrifying, overwhelming or
life-threatening events.
(12:08):
And it's important to recognizethat it's not just, you know,
something that actually couldhave killed you, but that our
nervous systems perceive kind ofa lack of safety in
relationship and a lack ofbelonging, and you know things
associated with that as alife-threatening event, like as
something that is trying to killus or eat us.
So when you experience some ofthat as you're growing up and as
(12:28):
you go through life, yournervous system kind of is on
hyper alert for threat.
And so being, you know, in aprocess of studying
psychotherapy and differentforms of psychotherapy
throughout my own life, as I'vebeen on my own healing journey,
which you know ultimately hasincluded psychedelics and
ketamine work as well, is justsomething.
(12:49):
It's a super interesting process.
And then really, things likekayaking and things like that,
like challenging your ownbeliefs and, you know,
self-limiting beliefs, and youknow how can that take us to the
next level and really has justpropelled me to spend my entire
life kind of questing fordifferent ways of healing and
different ways of working andand also just different ways of
finding joy.
(13:09):
You know, how can we deepeninto joy and well-being, which
is another thing that this workwith ketamine really does for
people is to help us just godeeper into, you know, being
more present in our lives andappreciating that and being able
to, you know, kind of expandwhat's good and to notice it and
appreciate it.
So you know, and then justreally, you know, carving out a
(13:31):
niche in a new and developingfield like this is, you know,
there's there.
There has been a lot of stigmaattached to this kind of work,
really even psychotherapy, butyou know, and kind of just you
know, overcoming that andhelping to really just make
those things normal and helppeople recognize that suffering
is, you know is pretty pervasiveand that there are tools
(13:52):
available to help with that andthere's lots of different ways
to go about that.
And so you know, really, youknow career wise, like
overcoming those stigmas andcontinuing to carve out places
in the in the professional arenathat are kind of atypical or
cutting edge.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
So yeah, you've sold me at it too, actually.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah.
So if, if you could think ofone thing, Sandy, if you don't
mind me calling you, dr Sandyyeah.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
If you could think of one thing that you would like
our listeners to remember aboutyou and about your psychological
services and the LivingMedicine Institute, what would
that be?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean related to some of what I've said, like
suffering is pervasive and thereare ways out of suffering.
So you know we're all going tosuffer some.
But if you're kind of stuck ina cycle where you know that
there can be more, where youknow that you're living with
(14:56):
kind of a persistent, likegrinding kind of anxiety or that
depression is just making itreally difficult to get off the
couch and you feel like you'vetried everything and there's
just no way through that, thatthere are additional ways, this
kind of emerging field ofpsychedelic assisted
psychotherapy is somethingthat's worth tracking and
(15:17):
ketamine work and I know it is.
I'll just name it.
It's out of pocket, insurancedoes not cover it, so that's a
barrier to many people and I dounderstand that.
Like I said, there's kind ofthe lower cost way through
intranasal that I offer, as wellas the IV clinics, which are
more expensive and again, prosand cons to each.
But there are ways to feelbetter and I just want to really
(15:39):
tell people keep working at itand there are ways to feel
better.
And if you can really take on Icall it, take on the personal
project of continuing to try towork through that and recognize
that taking care of your body,taking care of your mind, taking
care of your heart, but alsoaccessing tools and skills that
(15:59):
are available to you with askilled therapist.
And you know pharmacologicaleffects, like ketamine.
A lot of people have reallynegative side effects from a lot
of the meds that people takeand and they, you know they
often run their course.
So this can provide people witha great deal of relief, and so
(16:20):
I want to just kind of say thatand hold that out and say you
know that's available to you,whether that's you know, whether
you come to Asheville to workwith me or whether you find
somebody in your own communityto work with.
That you know there is.
There are ways and many peopledo find relief with this that
have never been helped before.
And for professionals who arekind of burned out and, you know
(16:43):
, tired of doing things the sameold way, this is also, you know
, a pathway for you.
It is open to, you know, allmedical professionals who are
able to do prescribing work andit is open to all therapists.
There is no actualcertification requirement, which
is weird, like it's kind of thewild west, but it's not Like
we're getting better and betterat professionalism and ethics
(17:03):
and standards and that's what westand for in our training
program is doing it well and youknow.
So get the training, come andsee what it's all about.
Come check it out.
We have a retreat coming up inSeptember for clinical and
medical professionals outside ofAsheville.
That's a great way to start andit's a really interesting place
to situate your career.
(17:25):
That again can kind of be anadjunct to what you're already
doing and help bring someexcitement and bring some new
ways of doing things.
So it's it's really exciting,it's super interesting.
There's nothing overly weirdabout it.
Like it's not too terrifying,it's not too strange I mean it
is.
I guess you know the space.
If you're kind of, you come inand you know what just said.
(17:46):
Also, if you don't mind, Iwould just tell people what it
is a little bit.
You know you come in and you get, you know you're under the
influence for about 45 minutes.
During that time we get yousituated.
Like I said, we do severaldifferent preparation sessions
beforehand that look a lot liketraditional therapy.
We come in and you know, haveyou get situated and then we
administer the medicine in thatsession.
(18:07):
Those sessions are about twohours long and you're under the
influence for about an hour ofthat time, getting situated and
then coming out of it.
And the whole time that you'recared for and you're supportive
and you know we're actuallytalking and processing
throughout, kind of noticingwhat comes up.
So you know, and and we're youknow the team that I work with
we know what we're doing, sowe're not going to send you kind
(18:29):
of off into orbit in a waythat's super terrifying.
And we're, we're with you thewhole time and you know, and
then, as you come out of it,there's there's very little
hangover effect.
You might notice kind ofsomething for a couple hours,
but, um, and then you kind of,you know, go about your business
and then we, you know, keepconnecting in that way.
So it's, it's not like, you know, some people have done other
(18:50):
types of psychedelics or theymight have misconceptions about
it, but it's.
It's not, like you know, somepeople have done other types of
psychedelics or they might havemisconceptions about it, but
it's not overly crazy.
It fits very well into aperson's life.
It's not super terrifying andit is definitely not only for
people who've already triedpsychedelics, like the vast
majority of my clients, as wellas the professionals who come
and train with us, have reallyeither done very little or did
(19:12):
it a long time ago, or havenever done it at all, and so
it's not that it's only forpeople who are interested in
that.
In fact, I might say theopposite that sometimes the
people who find the most benefitfrom it are people who never
really explored themselves orthose sort of non-ordinary
realms in those ways, and so soI just, you know, and I want to
(19:34):
just kind of like burst thatbubble about, like this is weird
and this is scary, and you knowwhat is this and what are these
people doing.
And you know, recognize that,you know I'm a licensed
professional, I've been doingthis work, for I've been doing
this work since 2019.
But I've been, you know,working in with in mental health
since the mid to mid 90s andyou know, so really incorporate
the work with the medicine inwith all the other psychotherapy
(19:58):
tools that I've been usingthroughout my career.
So it's it's an exciting timeand it's a really interesting
and different type of approach.
So I just want to invite peopleto come try it out.
Well, I want to also, if Imight.
I mean, I one of the things whenI do teaching about this, as I
tell people, is likerecreational use of, you know,
psychedelic medicine, or evenspecifically, ketamine, um, and
(20:19):
medically supervised, clinicallyinformed use are like meat and
fruit, like you can eat themboth, but they're not the same,
like you know.
They're different in everylevel.
And so, you know, imagine aworld where you come in and you
have a trained therapist who youknow really takes the time to
get to know you, understand yourhistory, understand the things
(20:41):
that might be driving some ofthe symptoms, help you set up
treatment goals, guide youthrough the medicine journey,
and then we meet within 24 to 48hours to kind of go over the
session and and really situateit into your life so that it has
meaning.
And that's a really differentexperience than you know some
other psychedelic use in someother context that you know
(21:04):
somebody may have experienced.
So it's.
It's just that you know,medically supervised and
clinically driven part iscentral to the whole process.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Very good.
Like I said, I'm intrigued.
I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Great yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
So if any of our listeners are like me and or
they're a medical professionalthat's interested in learning
more about the training, wherecan they find out more?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Great.
So you can find me and myprivate practice online at
sandranewiscom.
Or you can find me onPsychology Today also, sandra
Newis and Ketamine-AssistedPsychotherapy.
Type in Asheville, and type inmy name, sandra Newis, n-e-w-e-s
in Psychology Today, or justtype that into the browser and
(21:50):
you'll come up with that thatway, and then the training
program islivingmedicineinstitutecom.
So again, it'slivingmedicineinstitutecom and
we do have a training retreatfor clinical and medical
professionals coming upSeptember night through the 11th
, and then we start our onlineclinical intensive, which is 16
weeks online meets every otherweek and you also do your own
(22:10):
medicine work in between, andthat starts in October and
that's more of a deep dive intothe how to's of how to do it.
So if you're interested, theretreat is a good entry point.
If you want to learn more aboutthe how to's, you can do the
retreat and that, or just theclinical or just the level one
clinical intensive.
So, and I do have room in mypractice right now, so I'd be
(22:32):
happy to talk with peopleAwesome.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Awesome.
Well, doc, I can't tell you howmuch.
I hope you don't mind mecalling you doc.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I can't say how much I appreciate you taking time out
of your busy schedule to talkwith me and with our listeners
and wish you and your practiceand your family, your boys all
the best moving forward.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Thank you, Skip.
I really appreciate thisopportunity and appreciate the
chance to be here with you.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Absolutely.
Maybe we can have you backsometime.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
That sounds great.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
All right, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Thank you for listening to the good neighbor
podcast.
To nominate your favorite localbusinesses to be featured on
the show, go to gnptry-citiescom.
That's gnptry-citiescom, orcall 423-719-5873.
Thank you.
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