August 25, 2025 • 61 mins
We JUST formed the Chaotix.
Archie Comics Sonic The Hedgehog Knuckles Mini-Series #3
00:00 Intro
02:03 Rites of Passage Part 3
57:59 Outro
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Gotta Talk Fast is an oral review of Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog. Way past cool.
LINKS: https://gottatalkfast.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Got to talk fast. Got to talk fast.
Got to talk faster, faster, faster.
Got to talk fast. Welcome to an oral review of
Archie Comics Sonic the Hedgehogreminding you to stretch.
Staying well stretched and nimble on a daily basis can keep
you prepared for when you suddenly need to be physically
active because you never know when you have to run.
(00:23):
It's also a great stubbing stoneto regular exercise.
It is it actually because the thing with exercise isn't so
much because like people fall into the trap of, hey, I did
this awesome holistic workout, the perfect workout routine.
I got it down just now. Now you need to do it every
other day, or how three times a week or whatever, for the rest
(00:46):
of your life or as long as you can hit your goals.
And that's the incredibly hard part.
It really is a marathon, not a Sprint.
See, I already have commitment issues with people, so yeah,
but. It's with yourself now.
Well, that's, you know, arguablyworse.
So I'm Nick. I wrote the script.
And I'm Dominic, and except for this intro, I haven't read any
of today's script. What are we we, we're going
(01:08):
fast. We're, we're just going right
into it, man. We're.
We're enter. We're enter jacking ourselves
right into this third issue. I I'm always enter jacking.
I was doing enter jacking. Enter jumping.
You got Enter jumping Jack. You can't even what Enter
jacking jumps. Yeah, earlier today and then I
(01:30):
was going to do some. You're gonna.
You're gonna. Play Energ Jax, which is that
game where you you bounce the ball and then oh.
Both more. Yeah, that was good.
That was good. But with more energy.
That's a good joke. Better writing than this than
this comic right now. Man, I, I, I, I had to finish up
(01:55):
writing it while Dominik was here and he heard me just like
swear out loud at something. So let's find out what that was.
We are reading Knuckles the enchidna #3 or I think it's
officially called Sonic's Friendly Nemesis.
Well, yeah. Knuckles the enchidna #3.
This is his miniseries here. Rites of Passage, Part 3,
(02:17):
released in July of 1996, written by Ken Penders and Mike
Kent Turnovich. Pencils by Art Mahwini.
Deep within the heart of Eben Citadel, the fate of everything
as we know it will be decided. Battle to be fought with neither
side offering or giving any quarter.
Here the past collides with the present as Descendant squares
(02:39):
off against ancestor. The fiercest of opponents in any
conflict are always those linkedwith the thickets of blood.
For them, matters become more personal as the struggle evolves
from the mere physical contest to 1 of conquering the
opponent's heart and soul. Up until now, Knuckles has been
master of all he surveyed on thetropical paradise known as the
(03:01):
Floating Island. Content in the belief that his
was a noble calling, he now he must fight for what he believes
in or surrender to a legacy of fear.
Although guided by his mentor, the fire Ant known as
Archimedes, Knuckles may find heneeds more than a little help.
He may need a miracle as well. The serene calm the night sky
(03:23):
over Necronopolis conceals well the conflict about to erupt.
Knuckles and Archimedes are surrounded by Mighty, SPL,
Vector and Mighty. Death feels right.
Knuckles and Knuckles and Archimedes are surrounded by
Mighty SPL, Vector and Charmy. The four are brainwashed and
(03:44):
about to attack Knuckles and Archimedes.
Archimedes does his fire breath attack to hold the four at Bay.
Vector runs to the conveniently placed fire hose nearby and
sprays Knuckles on Archimedes, creating a dense fog in the
room. A fist flies out of the fog,
punching Vector in the face whenEnerjac shows up and somehow
(04:04):
puts Knuckles and Archimedes to sleep.
Enerjac brings A2 to the top of a tower and they wake up.
It's time for Enerjac's monologue.
But before that, I do want to mention how dirty that fucking
water has to be because this is like a revived ancient, like
dead city for thousands of years.
(04:26):
Isn't revived like, is this like'cause I, I, I understand that
he rose like the city. I I don't know if I got the
implication that it's it Kinopolis.
It yes, it is in Kinopolis because it's that's why he
(04:49):
renamed like he renamed like Edmund renamed himself to
Enerjac and Kidnapolis is now called Necronopolis.
And in fact, we didn't talk about it last episode, but there
was another map on the OR did we?
No, we did not because it specifically set slave quarters
on it. And I was going to bring it up
and I forgot. That's OK, That's that's fucked
up. Let's talk about that.
(05:10):
Actually, let's pivot to that because it's massive.
OK, one second. So I'm going to have a hard time
seeing this, so you're going to have to.
That's OK, Describe it. Scroll just a little tiny bit
up. Thank you.
So we are now looking at the previous issue.
This is the second part of the miniseries, and this is the end
of the issue, which is a map of Necronopolis parentheses,
formerly Incanopolis. So that's what it says.
(05:30):
Oh it does. OK, I missed that completely.
I can see how you you missed it because the text is very weird.
Yeah. OK.
So does that imply that they used to have slave quarters or
is that something that Enerjac decided he needed?
They're not going to touch it. So we don't know.
Well, so in it doesn't it does it doesn't seem like the city of
(05:53):
tomorrow that was in Kidnapolis would have slaves.
So this had to be post blowing up in Kidnapolis and throwing
out all technology. And actually, yeah, the
implication there is that after after Incanopolis blew up all
their technology, they were like, we will rebuild with just
the land and just manual labor. It seems that they use slaves.
(06:17):
So the reason why I didn't and, and I should have now that I'm
thinking about it, like it just didn't click in my head because
there is a spot on here that specifically says Great Hall of
Learning. And so I know exactly where that
is in. It's energetic Citadel
parentheses, formerly Hall of Learning.
OK, there's a lot to touch on. So my first thing is this
(06:42):
doesn't look like a great city. So like it didn't like click in
my head because it seems pretty barren.
It just has like a few buildingsand the images we've seen of the
city, there are like hundreds and hundreds of skyscrapers.
So that's like, I've read this. I didn't see the part at the top
that said specifically what it was, but I saw the Great Hall of
(07:03):
Learning. But I think in my mind I was
just like, oh, that's probably like him recognizing his roots
or something. I don't know.
And being like this is my hall of learning where whatever, it
doesn't matter. The truth is, I, I the most
likely thing is we just, the writers don't have a sense of
scale. I think that's what it really
(07:24):
is. That makes sense.
But yes, everything we are I am reading into the text and it is
not checking out with me at all either.
So the thing that really confuses me is you just call
this Enerjac Citadel. That's what it says.
Enerjac Citadel Parentheses. Formerly Hall of Learning.
(07:45):
So where the fuck are we? Because we're in the Adan
Citadel, because that's what wassaid in the introduction of this
issue. And I, I, I literally wrote it
down to call it out because I was like, I don't know what this
is. Did we miss it?
Did we miss it in this previous issue?
No, I don't think so because I, I mean, maybe I'm not going to
(08:07):
sit down and reread the whole issue.
God, it's that's such a throw. It had to been a throwaway line
because I don't. Do you see I can't read it from
here? Do you see a different citadel
on here? No.
And you're sure it says EBON so?We're we're gonna.
Right. OK, so eben is lower case, so
maybe it's an adjective that we're not familiar with.
(08:29):
Oh, interesting. And our phones are currently
filming us and the computer's all the way over.
There and I don't have a keyboard with me.
This is. This is actually going to bother
me. I'm gonna get up and just do.
It OK, Is it like I was about tosay it, I was about to say is it
just Ebony and that? Makes sense, actually.
That makes sense actually. So OK.
(08:53):
I've I it's just. So what's the OK?
Hold on, wait, wait, wait. I actually, I actually get this
all makes sense now. So yes, you made the correct
connection. Eben is tied to Ebony because I
looked it up on Google and eben said so.
What does Ebony mean? Ebony is it's black like that's
'cause it. Means the same thing, It's just
(09:14):
more fun to say to Ebony. Yeah, I I think so.
I'd like it like Ebony magazine.I don't know, or so the the word
that I just realized as I lookedit up is that it's the Eben Hawk
from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, which you haven't
played yet. No.
No, it definitely in my opinion one of the greatest RPGs.
(09:35):
OK, no, I did play that game when it came out and I got to
the part, the twist OK, And thenlike, I don't know, I was like,
that was cool. And then I literally just
stopped playing. I don't know why.
And so I don't know what happens.
One of the greatest twists in probably video games 'cause it
(09:57):
blew everyone's mind it. Was a good twist.
It was a very good quest twist. So Eben Citadel.
So it's just him as a fancy wordfor just hey, it's a dark ass
citadel. Hey, you know what, thank you
either Mike or Kind for teachingus that Ebony also is Eben.
And maybe there is a slight difference, but I it's it's like
negligent slaves. Quarters.
(10:22):
Yeah, they have. So so post blow up the Enchidnas
used slaves or is it Enerjac? I think, I think it's Enerjac.
I think this, I think the implication is Enerjac.
Is evil. That's that's it.
And he was just like, I'm going to need these, I think.
But man but. Like he just raised the city,
What does he need a slave? What does he need slaves for?
(10:45):
Right I guess is my question. You're like, is he building?
You can move matter with your mind, he.
Can make mountains he has. Seven chaos emeralds in one or
something or 6, I don't know. So like.
If anything, he's just doing it 'cause he's bored.
Yeah. Which also like I guess.
Could be the sadism. He could be a sadist.
Well, and like, I guess we're getting ahead of ourselves.
But like, he did enslave the minds of the chaotic screw so
(11:12):
they have to hang out somewhere.Yeah, I.
Wonder if that's how they got there.
It's time for Energec's monologue, all right?
Don't do any of the clicking things.
Yeah, I wasn't going to. All right, so my program puppets
bring the Enchidna and fire Ant to me.
(11:33):
After all, it's been a long timesince I visited with family.
But I'm quite sure Enchidna, youhaven't any concept just how
long, But I'd wager, I'd wager the fire Ant does.
Did you know that at one time the Enchidnas were the most
advanced species on Mobius? Bro, my brother Edmund and I
were Enchidnopolis as top scientists and it was our dream
(11:56):
to restore the floating island to its native Mobius.
Utilizing the energy of the Chaos Emeralds, I created the
Chaos Siphon, which would gradually absorb the energy
generated by the emeralds, thus lowering us until we were
rejoined with the land. However, we were denied by the
Council of Elders foolish old men, too weak willed to see that
(12:21):
our predicament required a solution that was bold and
daring and gnarly. Bra.
Unfortunately, my brother was among them, and so it felt to me
to carry out the plan. What I didn't count on was a
redirection of the energy that was channelled into me, changing
(12:42):
me into something more. However, while I planned, in my
arrogance, I had not taken into account your ancestors mentoring
the fray fire Ant they foiled myplans, bringing down my own
creation upon me. I suppose my brother Edmund took
(13:03):
it upon himself to make atonement for my deeds, probably
racked with guilt over my death.But I did not die.
For untold generations I lay in utter blackness until the time
was right for my rebirth. And with my renewed life force,
I emerged free to conquer a world and beyond.
(13:24):
Of all who could possibly stand in my way were you 2?
Making your removal from the scene was my highest priority.
I admit amazement that you made it here through the desert.
Knuckles realizes that Ener Jackhas no knowledge of the Oasis
that saved his and Archimedes his life.
(13:45):
Ener Jack continues. You can't even begin to
comprehend the power I wield. Power so limitless that the
energy it takes to hold this island aloft can create a new
tower from the earth. Only this time, I don't foresee
it collapsing anytime soon. And I'll be so short, buddy pal.
(14:07):
History just might repeat itself, right Archimedes?
Archimedes then beams information from his mind to
other fire ants, and they start marching towards the Dark City.
Enerjac starts attacking Knuckles and Archimedes, using
this time to make a puff of smoke, clouding both Knuckles
(14:29):
and Archimedes, allowing them todisappear.
Enerjac sends a command over thespeaker system for the
hypnotized chaotics, who are playing poker to locate Knuckles
and Archimedes. They rush off, obeying their
master. We cut the outside.
Thousands of fire ants are now marching into the Dark City.
(14:50):
We cut back inside to Knuckles and Archimedes, who are in the
vents above Enerjac. They drop down on Enerjac for a
surprise attack. The attack essentially does
nothing and Knuckles is knocked down to the ground.
What did you hope to accomplish with that maneuver?
That I laughed myself silly. How disappointing.
(15:12):
I at least expected better of you.
And kidna. The name is Knuckles man.
Just like hearing it back-to-back.
It's so stupid. The name is Knuck.
Brooklyn. Yes, it is Brooklyn.
My name is Neo. And the name's Knuckles.
(15:35):
Annie, Jack. Or should I say Great Uncle
Dimitri, the only kidna. Whoever put himself over his own
kind. I've known all about you for a
long time. I am what I am because of yours,
Ener. Jack lunges forward, attacking
while talking. Nah, brah, you are who you are
(15:58):
because of my spineless brother.You are who you are because of
all the scared sheep on the Grand Council.
They didn't have my vision or mycourage to ride this gnarly wave
we cut out. Wait, where does it 'cause I, I
(16:18):
feel like I do remember thinkingit should be scared and it said
sacred. Yeah, right there.
No, you're right. OK, so for the record, I usually
correct in real time Knicks typos, but this was this was a
correct one or you know, it was he did it correctly.
It says sacred. I think that's just a typo.
(16:40):
I think so too, but I specifically was like, that
doesn't seem like why would he call them sacred if he like
doesn't like them? But I know I could see.
I could see where it's like, Oh yeah, you high, holy sacred
sheep. I could see it that way too.
So maybe that's the intention. It just didn't click with us.
So there's a fault in the writing, at least in the
(17:00):
communication, OK. And Dominic is right to correct
my typos because there's there'senough of.
Them there are a lot. So look, I would say like 70% of
the time of I also do, if you'venoticed, if you're watching
this, there's a lot of cuts and a lot of the time it's just
straight up a mistake that Nick makes. 30% of the time though,
it's like I'm genuinely not reading it correctly.
(17:21):
Or Dominic interpreted my writing as a mistake when I'm
like, no, that's the joke, yes. Yes, sometimes that's.
What does happen? A bit, and sometimes I let it
slide, sometimes I don't. Yes, because, well, it's just
that the level of writing we're dealing with here.
OK, We cut outside of the tower.The fire ants have attached
rockets to the side of the tower.
(17:44):
The Rockets start blasting off, the ground beneath Knuckles
crumbles and Enerjack is flown away in the tower.
As Knuckles falls from the tower, he switches to glide mode
and safely lands on Angel Island.
Those steam powered dreads, Knuckles and Archimedes now
stand in front of the thousands of ants who saved their lives.
Archimedes thanks them. This is random Ant.
(18:07):
What does a random Ant sound like?
OK, just whatever. More squeaky.
Yeah, exactly. But Archimedes, we only created
an escape route so you could getaway.
We had nothing to do with launching the Citadel into the
space. It sounds like a less
enthusiastic Mickey Mouse. Yeah, I really got Oh.
Just then, the city vanishes. We cut to the Chaotic Screw, who
(18:30):
just happened to be laying near Knuckles and Archimedes.
Waking up from their hypnotic trance, the Chaotic Screw
thanked Knuckles for saving their lives.
You know, for once guys, I can'ttake credit.
It was a combination of things and added up when I put them
together. My dad's story plus Archimedes,
(18:51):
plus Energex. I could have never defeated
Energex on my own. However, I could depend on the
unlikeliest of sources for help.I stood a better than even
chance of beating them. Up until now, I was basically a
loner, relying only on myself. I think Enerjac sensed that and
(19:13):
figured I wouldn't go beyond it.I simply learned from history.
Enerjac didn't. This is Archimedes, for all his
omnipotence. Even Enerjac didn't know about
the Oasis we found in the middleof nowhere, and we still have no
clue where it came from or disappeared to.
Mate. We cut to an older Enchidna
(19:35):
watching these events unfold viatheir monitor.
This Enchidna has video and sound and hears Vector scream
out Let's party. So what is what is old Enchidna?
Who? I know who it is.
Well, technically we already decided the voice last time,
which was James Earl Jones. Got it.
(19:56):
As well you should, Especially you knuckles.
You've conducted yourself nobly and well.
By distracting your great uncle through valiant combat, you
allowed me to complete the the rocket engines that carried from
me, that carried him from this world.
Without your efforts, all would have been lost.
(20:16):
You understood the message of history.
We are all together as one. That you accepted Archimedes as
an ally gladdens me further. Though natural opposites, both
anchidnas and fire ants are intertwined for mutual benefit.
Thus, the relationship continuesfor me.
I shall keep a watchful eye as my forefathers have done for
(20:41):
countless generations. Or isn't it the father's duty to
look after his son? The twist here is he is
Archimedes father, not Knuckles.That'd be crazy.
He gave birth to a fire Ant. So the he gave birth.
Hey, do you understand their anatomy 'cause I don't.
(21:04):
Maybe they're seahorses. This this is actually a plot
point in in Invincible. Do you know that show?
I know of it. I've never watched it.
Yeah. A human fucks an Ant.
Nice. Yeah.
OK, so it's just the evolution of the Sonic comics.
Yes, exactly. They actually take direct
inspiration. We cut back to Archimedes and
Knuckles on Angel Island quotingCasablanca, saying this is the
(21:28):
beginning of a beautiful friendship.
We cut the space and see the tower flying through space with
Enerjack laughing. The end.
So to make it clear, because I did write in the script, because
I I I write the script as I'm reading it to try to give it
(21:50):
more of AI. Don't read the script.
Read the issue and then write the script.
I write it as I read it to kind of give it a more like.
I'm reacting to this. Reacting yeah maybe not the best
writing style but I think for this exact purpose it works.
They try tricking you into thinking the fire ants put the
(22:11):
Rockets on so that's why I wrotethe fire ants put on the
Rockets. But then we find out that it was
actually Knuckles dad who is alive who just can
telepathically put on rockets. Maybe they'll explain that maybe
they don't we're obviously talking about the rocket thing
now because that makes me so fucking angry.
(22:34):
I don't the fire ants are like we just gave you an escape
route. What does that mean it?
Doesn't. It literally makes no fucking
sense. Scroll.
Back up to the ants or you want me to do it?
Yeah, because I, I literally, I tried to figure out what the
ants did then. And I was like, these ants
didn't do anything. All they did was March into the
(22:54):
building. What what does he mean?
Unless if like they chewed the bottom of the tower.
So that's. What I was thinking is similar
to how they did the first time. Yeah, what the IT would make
sense to mirror the Angel Islandwith the tower from like a
thematic point of view, I guess.I don't even know if it really
(23:14):
works thematically. Oh, OK, no, no, I I see what
happened here. OK, so Knuckles and Archimedes
are standing in front of Enerjack.
Yes. And the hole is like buzz sawed
around them where they're standing.
Oh Looney tune style. So it's like a circle around
where they're standing. They interpret that as.
The rocket. Thing the rocket lifted off and
(23:35):
the bottom of the like tower gotdestroyed from the rocket
lifting right? Right, right.
But no So what there was a lot happening here visually that you
had to kind of read into or likelook in details.
I wish. I appreciate.
I do appreciate that. It's just dumb.
But so you actually made a joke.You made a joke last time, I
(24:00):
think where it was or saw however many episodes ago you
were like, yeah, so they some the the the structure lifted and
literally where they stood, where they sit is, is like
there's a hole around them and they didn't lift.
That is actually kind of what just happened with the fire.
The fire ants cut a hole around Knuckles and Archimedes.
(24:21):
And when the rocket went up, conveniently at the same time,
the ground that was cut dropped underneath them, and that's how
they escaped. So I'm since since we're right
here and this is what we're talking about and we're not
normally we try to you know, do overall opinions and then zero
in, but I'm so fucking pissed atall of this.
(24:42):
Why doesn't why is Enerjack stuck on the tower?
Why can't he jump through the hole that Knuckles?
He's right. He watched it happen.
Knuckles is like literally not even 5 feet in front of him.
Why? Why?
You're gonna tell me this fuckercan't fly?
You're gonna tell me that he. Was he was flying or at least
really really long jumping through through the tunnels like
(25:05):
the first issue this. Guy has how many Chaos Emeralds
10 in him, and you're gonna tellme this guy's not just gonna
jump down to the Earth? I don't understand.
I genuinely don't understand howhe doesn't just Doctor Manhattan
just vaporize everyone. Yeah.
Like, I don't, I don't, I don't get what's happening here.
They, they, whoever decided thisshould be the villain is insane
(25:29):
because there's only one way to defeat him, which is through the
Chaos Siphon, which I mean, obviously he's going to come
back and if they're going to deal with him, that's how they
have to kill him. But like, I don't understand how
he lets himself go into outer space.
I'm sorry, I it's just like noneof that makes any fucking sense
(25:50):
and. Also, why is he laughing?
Because he's gonna go conquer another planet and then come
back and attack Mobius after conquering this planet.
And then they're gonna have an intergalactic war.
They're doing Planet Hulk and so.
Maybe. Actually, that's very possible.
I I don't know if that's what they're doing.
That's just my, my immediate guess.
(26:11):
I'm not done. Yeah, OK.
Because how does how does these rockets attach to the tower?
Yeah. OK.
So magnets. OK, how do magnets work?
But you see in this. Panel that they're they're just
like clamping they're. Clamping.
OK. And so Knuckles dad programmed
(26:33):
these rockets, these boosters. Yeah, to.
Or is he controlling them with his mind?
I don't get what's. Happening out of these control,
I think it's the technology, OK,'cause you remember Incanopolis
is a hyper advanced civilization, so maybe he dug up
some of that old, old tech whichwas actually very advanced and
yeah, did that. So I mean, look, he's he.
(26:55):
For he is watching all of this unfold from a a pretty advanced
looking control room. This is this is another problem
I fucking have. If, if Enerjac is as strong as
they say he is, it feels pretty risky for Knuckles's dad to just
hang back and watch this unfold,right?
(27:18):
That's insane in itself. Is this more of that trial
bullshit? Yeah.
But that should not be a trial. Yeah, yeah.
That that's that's the test. No, that's not the test.
That's what the test is preparing you for.
Like this is all the testing you're trying to do here.
Doesn't make sense. That like that he that is if he
if he failed which he the only reason.
(27:40):
OK this pisses me off. So sorry, I know you probably
have things to say. No, it's OK.
I get this. I like I've I've I went for it.
The his knuckles, his dad littlemonologue fucking bullshit where
he's just like you, you've luredthe sun and he's like.
That's very good. That's a very good deep poisnic.
(28:02):
I've got I've got surprises, butlike the he's just like you
distracted him and well enough so that I can attach rockets
onto his tower and he's making it sound like Knuckles planned
these things that Knuckles was like, you know what I mean?
(28:22):
Like verbatim. The quote is something along the
lines of like, thank you for distracting Ener Jack long
enough so I can like do this thing.
And it made it sound like that was Knuckles plan when Knuckles
was just losing a fight. He wasn't winning that fight.
From his point of view, from hispoint of view, Knuckles Dad, he
(28:44):
could have been like improvising.
It's like, OK, they're fighting.I don't know if my son's going
to win or not, but they're fighting long enough where I can
at least launch the Rockets, attach and launch the Rockets.
Or yes, he, he was planning thisthe whole time.
He, I do hate it. I do hate it when there's this
(29:05):
long series of events and there's a character like, yes, I
I planned all of this. 10 billion calculations and this is
the one I knew that was going tosucceed.
Something like that. The other thing Enerjac could
just like take away knuckles as oxygen or something and that's
why he Knuckles and Archimedes like pass out.
(29:28):
There's your window. Yeah, there's your window.
Why'd he stop taking out the oxygen?
Cause Enerjac, Enerjac is not shown to be like a noble warrior
where it's like aha I am evil but at least I have respect for
No, he doesn't care. He.
Just wants the power. I agree.
I agree. OK, I I'm kind of taking control
(29:49):
of the conversation. I'm gonna step back.
Is there anything you want to say 'cause I I do have a laundry
list of things I need? To get, I'll let you take the
lead on this. So I'll do a fun one right now.
I do think it's really funny that they ask themselves the
question if you're hypnotized, what do you do when you're not
(30:10):
being like the like, they're clearly still hypnotized, the
Chaotics crew, but they're just like hanging out playing poker.
That's what I. Like, I don't know, in my mind,
I guess if you're not doing the task that was given to you,
you're like standing still like a robot.
Yeah, that's how it should, because that makes the most
sense. But here they retain their
(30:32):
personalities, it seems, and they're just playing cards.
It's so weird. Why did they have?
Why did they have to draw it like that?
I don't know, I kind of love it actually.
I think it's like a really dumb fun thing because just the idea
that they're the same person butthey just hate Knuckles for some
reason. So go at the end of this issue
there is yet another. So this whole thing has every
(30:55):
single issue here has had map sofar and this map is the Citadel
of Darkness Energec Citadel of Darkness and and the they map
out the room the recreation lounge great for card playing.
Yeah, so he may. Enerjac had that thought when he
made this build. It was, you know what?
You know what's funnier? If he hypnotized them to play
(31:16):
poker. He's like, I got this card room,
someone's got to use it. All right, I'm going to, I'm
going to fight Knuckles one-on-one.
So y'all just play? Just play some cards bro, yeah.
Just play hand or two. We're not play play spoons.
One thing I like, there's something I really like in this
(31:39):
issue. I think it's failed miserably,
but I like the attempt of tryingto tell the same story over and
over again from multiple points of views.
It's just the points of views didn't change at all, really.
Like they all say the same fucking thing and so it's not
(31:59):
interesting, but I like the ideaand I'm specifically talking
about when Enerjack was talking about his interpretation of
events with when he was trying to talk to the Citadel and
whatnot and be like. To the high counselor.
Or whatever and be like, hey, this is I'm we need to do this
to like save the Angel Island and whatnot.
(32:21):
Motivation. It's character motivation.
Yeah, it's just like, but we knew that this like seeing it
from his point of view didn't change anything.
It it wasn't like a light bulb moment to be like, oh, you know
what, he makes sense now. Or like it didn't change my
interpretation of events, which is why you would do something
like this. So it's just a waste of our
(32:43):
fucking time because it's literally just repeating the
same things we've known. And they did this last issue
too. And it's like I, I get what
you're trying to do, but you're failing.
And so you're just reiterating a, you're wasting 2 pages here
saying the same thing that we know have known.
You're literally redrawing the same panels.
(33:05):
Yeah, exactly. And these aren't newly drawn
because the way like these aren't superimposed, they the
way they do it, they have to be drawing it again. 100% so that
that's my opinion of that. I think it's a cool idea, but
unless of it like changes our opinion on something or like
enlightens gives character motivation in a way that we
didn't see before, there's literally no point to doing it
(33:27):
so. Like there's no new information
exactly. And I can, I can see like, Oh,
no, because we already understand Enerjac's point of
view. We already understand it.
We don't need to reiterate it. Yeah, this is, this may come as
a shock. You guys didn't have the most
(33:49):
complicated motivation so. Oh, I'm sorry, I don't know if
we finished talking about this, but when Vector sprayed Knuckles
with that fire hose, you know. What's really funny is I was
just about to bring that up. That was my last bullet point,
which was, I just found it really it.
I think you were going to say different things, but I think it
(34:10):
would have reminded you to bringit back to that concept, which
was I just got really annoyed that they use fog to escape
twice in a single issue. This was fucking lazy.
So, so I do appreciate it when they when characters use powers
multiple times in a short amountof time, But then I'm like, oh,
it'd be cool if they anticipatedit.
It's like, Oh, I got you the first time.
(34:31):
No, it's not like. It's two different.
So the first time the fog was because I guess fog isn't the
right word because it's steam, it's the fire.
He's breathing fire and vector sprays him with water and so
that's super foggy. You can't see anything.
(34:52):
Later on Archimedes uses like a smoke bomb.
It isn't anything like that. So it's not using the same
power. He just has a smoke bomb for
some reason. Well, yeah, I'll accept smoke
bomb. Do not get me wrong.
I'm not sitting here being like,it's a fine device, I guess to
get them out of the situation. If anything, I'm more angry at
(35:14):
the water hose one because it's fucking insane to just have a
water hose on the wall right there.
I don't know, I I feel like you could have been more clever with
trying to get Knuckles and Archimedes out of that
situation. And the fact that they do it
twice in the same issue just rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah, they're they're just lazy writing.
(35:34):
I'm sorry, the villains are not are not learning.
Yeah, so. No one's learning.
No one's learning anything. What were you gonna say about
the water? It's just nasty ass water,
'cause it's yeah, it's gross. It's probably.
Over 1000 years old stuck in those pipes.
That and also it would technically wouldn't even be
water at that point, it would just be sludge.
But the yeah, there's that. And also like even regular fire
(35:56):
hose water or or like sprinkler water.
Different than fire hose water I.
Think I don't know. Because I think they
specifically put chemicals in the in the sprinklers, in the
sprinklers. Antifreeze is it.
That's what I've been told from certain facilities, people who
like work in, who like to handlethat stuff.
I probably know who that person was.
Who? Told actually yes, and in fact
(36:17):
what it was is that a sprinkler pipe had cracked and I had to
deal with that because it was getting all over our shit, all
over our equipment. You.
Never told me about this. No, I didn't.
And what? A crack.
Old age, like I think like no one hit it.
It was so high up, no one could have hit it.
And it's like, yeah, I know the smell is just antifreeze.
(36:38):
That's all it is. That makes sense.
I wonder if it's a mixture of water in antifreeze or if it's
all antifreeze. I don't know, because it either
way it has to. Dumbass.
Fire isn't cold. It doesn't freeze.
That's true. No, I'm kidding.
Why do they need antifreeze? No, no, no.
But yeah, no, because they flushit out.
They flush out the the pipes. Oh, that makes sense.
(36:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this all makessense.
Yeah, that's just, that's right about it.
Yeah, between like antifreeze and other chemicals and just
thyme and sludge, just really nasty ass water.
That's like, that's enough to knock you out all on its own.
All right, next, next topic. Oh, you have the mouse, so no,
no, that's fine. What do you what do you want to
(37:19):
cover 'cause I cover? You, you take the lead.
Well, OK, let's but that was it.I kind of did my big rants that
I was really fucking annoyed about.
So let's let's talk about the mini series as a whole.
No, I didn't finish what I was fucking talking about because
this fucking pit. So OK, well, OK, I guess I guess
this leads into the bigger question.
(37:39):
So I guess I can step back a second.
How do you you might actually say what I'm going to say.
How do you feel about the miniseries as a whole?
Do you think it accomplished what it was trying to
accomplish, which was, I guess, the lessons learned that
Knuckles needed to learn to teamup?
So there's there's the there's the emotional like character
growing moments and then there are like lessons at the end.
(38:01):
That's the that's that arc. And then there's the practical
physical like what the fuck justhappened in real time
situations? So how do you think those
payouts were? OK, so Knuckles attempted to
explain or the writers attemptedto explain it that, oh, hey, I
needed to learn to look into my past or my history and also work
with Archimedes. I can kind it's not well done,
(38:26):
but I can kind of buy it with appreciating your own past and
history. I that's that's a personal thing
for me as well because I am a the son of Filipino immigrants.
So I was like, OK, I get that. I actually do kind of connect
with that. Was it done the best?
Kind of sort of there was a lot of info dumps.
So you could you combine that lesson with with exposing or
like lore with more lore dumping.
(38:48):
It's like, OK, fine, sure, that's fine with me teaming up
with Archimedes. That was a little forced.
That was a very fast and how, because it was just so like
here, like Archimedes himself was not enough of a of a
antagonist facing knuckles for me to appreciate him turning
into a a a an ally. So there's that critique.
(39:10):
But OK, sure, team up with Archimedes.
Fine, whatever, We just formed the chaotics a couple months
ago, like 3-4 five months ago, which is relatively recent,
right? They have done Jack shit
(39:31):
together as a team after their formation.
Well, that's because we're gonnanow we can be a team.
He knuckles needed to go throughthis in our I disagree.
Also, I'm being I'm being a Dickand I know this is what the
writers are thinking but. No, you didn't.
No, you didn't. You didn't learn a God damn
(39:53):
thing. Well, and so you.
Didn't learn to bond with the chaotics.
That was the problem. Which, to be kind of Fair, not
really. Knuckles didn't even say that.
How cool would it have been if we actually had a team up moment
with the team? At the very end.
Or just in general? Yeah, So I want I want a
(40:13):
question I'm gonna ask is you specifically said Knuckles was
able to look into the past to learn how to face the trials of
today. Right.
My question and and I might be there might it might be how can
(40:34):
I word this? How do you think he applied the
past for today's lessons? Because the past, Well, what is
the story of the past? The past is.
Inkadnopoulos, it is the, you know, Mount Fate, correct?
(40:54):
It is Enerjac, it is Dimitri andEdmund, it is the High council,
it is the lessons of Inkadnopoulos as this
technological powerhouse high onits own supply, very arrogant
society. And the fire ants were the ones
who were really the the real physical labor over class
(41:15):
learning or not learning, you know, physical force that made
Incandopoulos what it was with 0appreciation.
It was that right? None of it applies.
None of it really applied to theto the the process or the final
fight. Yeah, it was all just lore
dumping. Exactly, that's all that was.
The point I was trying to make is I do not understand how
(41:39):
learning these things from the past made Knuckles be able to
fight in the present. Did not equip him with anything
at all to help fight energetic. And I don't see the parallels of
the past story to the modern one.
And maybe they're there and I'm an idiot like that, that is.
No, but like the present just reads as evil.
(42:01):
Guy wants to take over the world.
That's it. Yeah, whereas the previous issue
was man versus nature. It was a society trying to fight
a comet. Well, I mean the the exact so
for this exact story that they're trying to tell, it seems
like what they needed to do was however, it.
(42:24):
So it's Dimitri and Edmond and they have a falling out.
And I guess however Edmund failed, Knuckles has to succeed,
right? In order for it to be a lesson
learning from the past. I don't understand how Edmund
(42:47):
failed. I got, I guess they he failed.
I'm sorry, this is something I haven't really thought about
this yet. So I'm kind of talking through
it and seeing if I can like kindof make something work here.
So Edmund failed in the sense that he believed science would
(43:11):
be stronger than nature. And and then I see, I guess I
just don't, I'll be honest with you.
I need to sit with this. I'll be honest with you, I don't
even see a science versus naturething really other than the
initial Like the comet is heading to hurtling towards
(43:32):
whatever 'cause if anything science one they they literally
moved a city out of the way of aof a comet.
Well, and so. I it it's a it's and I'm I'm
actually being serious when I say this.
This is a class story. This is a class lesson because
of the the fire ants. The closest thing to a real
development and lesson and like thing here is the fire ants.
(43:53):
But I don't. I've got two things here.
One how are there fire ants on the island?
Shut up. That's a legitimate question
dude. So all the fire ants went and
lifted the island up. So did they split society?
(44:13):
Are there fire ants down on Mobius and fire ants on the
island? And they've developed different
societies now. There's a North Side and there's
a South Side of Chicago, Nick. OK, OK, I just needed that
answered I guess and. And there's an upside and a
downside in fires. Like when they meet up again,
they're like, hey, what's up? Interesting.
(44:34):
There's a whole like airline that shuttles between the nook.
Wait. Are you starting to think like I
am? No.
He's getting it. He's starting to believe no.
No, no, no, no, no. What was your weight?
No, for a second I thought like is the is the island still in
the air? Yes, yes it is 'cause they went
to space, so I thought it was inthe ground for some reason.
(44:55):
Never. Mind, No, no, no.
Yeah, I've, I I legitimately forgot my other point.
Now with the fire ants. Oh, 'cause I was gonna say,
couldn't there be more of an argument that the ants are
nature? OK, you know what?
That's a read. That's I, I, I can see it now.
I, I can. I'm starting to see it that way.
Sure. Yeah.
(45:18):
I don't agree with it for the record, I'm just saying.
It's not well done because I, I think OK, are, are they a
parallel for like natives, like Native Americans or Native,
whatever? It's like indigenous populations
perhaps. Yeah, OK.
I'm starting to. Well, because the ants look like
they don't really have technology.
(45:39):
No, they have some civilization 'cause they they talk about each
other, they can communicate. They can psychically talk to
everyone now. Archimedes can like, operate
technology. They're sentient, they're
sentient. They can, they have advanced
thought and they can, they have a society.
Yes. So, OK, OK, it could be like an
indigenous Reed. Maybe.
(46:00):
But either way, I'm just seeing it more at the real lesson here
that I'm taking away. Well, and so sorry, I'm going to
push back only because I I got my read was that the echidnas
didn't even know that the fire ants did what they did.
Correct. That is, that is what it is.
(46:20):
And so I think it's hard to interpret that as a class thing
when, well, OK, I just thought of how you could, but the main
population doesn't understand that these people came and
(46:41):
lifted them up. Now, obviously, as I say that
out loud, I understand that capitalism would or just.
Like middle class arrogance. Yeah, where I don't realize that
buying my chocolate means that Iendorse child slavery because.
I mean, there's there's that, but it's also even just to the
myth of like, oh, I'm the self-made man.
(47:02):
I I own this middle class home in a in a nice neighborhood.
I did it all by myself. Sure, no other society didn't
help me fun. I wasn't, you know, the, the,
the road system never didn't help me.
Transit education, nothing helped me.
It was all me, baby. I'll say I'm not pushing back as
(47:24):
hard now, but also I don't thinkwhat the ants did make sense.
Yeah. Why did they do it?
Why did? Why did they do all well?
Not only why did they do? It look at lifting the island
the first time wait 1500 years ago whatever that I can see it
like oh like we're gonna help these guys.
What if, what if they just hatedAkin does a lot and they're
like, we just wanna they they wanna fucking leave.
(47:47):
Let's let's help. Let's get them out of here.
See, I like that. OK.
And. That's why there's no fire ants
up there. Yeah.
Where? Where so?
Well, assuming there aren't justnative fire ants on the island
that went along with the island,right?
(48:07):
Which I. Well, I mean, Archimedes is
Australian, so he's obviously onthe island like again.
It just could be a different like faction of not faction but
regional ants. Like I realize there's red ants,
there's black ants, there's brown ants.
Yeah, I, yeah, I'm. Assuming also the telepathy, I'm
(48:28):
assuming that's that's more so how just like ants in real life
can talk to each other without click.
Yeah, you know what I mean. I'm being a Dick, OK?
So, yeah, I I think our overall opinion of these issues are
poor. I don't think they succeeded in
trying to tell the story that they're trying to tell.
(48:51):
I think it would have been a lotbetter if if you're going down
the hit hypnotic route to make the chaos crew do a heist.
What? Honestly anything other than
what they did because the only cool thing they did was play
poker. Yeah, the the like the whole
(49:13):
everything with the caddox has been a waste of time.
I don't think Knuckles true. The only lesson I feel like
Knuckles learned is nothing. I just like.
I just. Like, he's just like telling us,
like the writers are like, this is what he learned, but I'm
like, show, show me how we learned that, right?
(49:35):
What are you going to say? I apologize.
No, no. No, no, it's, it's that's like
we, I cannot get over the fact that we just teamed up with the
the chaotics we just formed earlier this year.
If we're, if we're looking at the comics in real time, like
issue by issue, month by month as they're released.
We just teamed up with the chaotics and it's like, here's
the team, baby, we got it. We can't.
(49:56):
We're all, we're about ready to go on some exciting adventures
together. And yes, there's going to be
some growing pains. This isn't even growing pains.
This is just nothing happened. The chaotics were separated from
their team leader, which is Knuckles, right.
And he had to, he had to rescue them.
Yeah. And no, nothing was learned.
(50:18):
The chaotics were not developed as characters.
The chaotics didn't learn any lessons of their own because
they were hypnotized or just eaten ribs, you know, in a
temple. That was weird.
Just nothing at all. What a complete waste of an
opportunity. I mean, that's that's so far
been the the theme I think of Archie comics and I think that
(50:41):
will be my that'll be my thesis is what a waste of an
opportunity. Like, like if, if the next time
we see the chaotics crew together and it's, and they're
like acting like they've been onall these adventures and it's
like, oh, man, remember back in the day or like, Hey, we're,
we're like, we're like torso tight now because we, we've been
(51:03):
through all this ordeal. No, you haven't, you haven't
learned a goddamn thing. I don't, I don't know what there
is to celebrate with this crew. Just a waste.
Just a complete waste. Something to touch on that I
forgot to bring up is do we think that?
Well, OK, let's take a step back.
(51:24):
Do we like the knuckles Dad reveal?
It's do I like it? I'm neutral on it.
I I'm actually so apathetic to it I don't have an opinion.
I hate it, obviously. OK, I shouldn't say obviously, I
I think it's a lot more interesting that Knuckles is
like an orphan trying to how canI word this?
(51:47):
I think it's a more interesting story of Knuckles trying to
learn about his past and cultureby himself and kind of winging
it and kind of deciding this is what it is.
And like, I mean, obviously he had his father and his father
taught him stuff, but like, how much do you actually take in
when you're 5 or 6, right? And so now he's an adult and
(52:09):
he's trying to remember these things that his dad was trying
to like, teach him. I think that's a cool, not maybe
not cool that you're an orphan, but it's a, it's an interesting
idea, right? And having his dad just be alive
takes away from that. On top of it, I hate hate hate,
and maybe I'm wrong that this isthe inspiration, but I hate the
(52:31):
fact that they're trying to makehim look like a Jedi.
Yeah, yeah. And and honestly I wouldn't
normally say it's a Jedi, but the fact that he is surrounded
by a bunch of future tech. While wearing a.
Wearing a robe, I'm like, he's aJedi.
Yeah, and also we know Ken Penders has a hard on for Star
Wars, which is fine. I I do too, but it's just stop
(52:53):
forcing it on on this aesthetic.It's I'm already upset at the
fact that it's his dad, which wecalled don't forget back when
they hinted at someone because remember someone was watching
Archimedes I. I know you did, at least.
I don't know if I want if I was just put my hands up, but I know
you did. I'm well, you can edit it in if
(53:15):
I'm wrong, just be like he didn't call that out.
But I I guess the the old technology is probably
incredibly advanced. Do you think it's advanced
enough to create quick? Great what create in Oasis?
(53:35):
Could be maybe like. Material made it disappear like.
Materialized. 'Cause that pisses me off and
it's a plot point. They drove it home.
They we have seen time and time again hyper advanced scientific
marvels and technology are introduced and then used way
(53:57):
below the capabilities. That is an issue with so much
media. Don't get me wrong, but in this
whole comic series all together it is a repeated issue of like
just fucking use this man you have it.
What is going on? So limit in?
Give me a reason why it's limited in this some way?
(54:18):
Can you go back to the last issue?
Oh, we. Didn't talk about this.
Knuckles just fucking eats Archimedes.
I thought that was really funny and.
Yeah, it was good. It that was actually a really
funny, like that's a very knuckles thing to do.
Yeah. So actually, you know what?
Kudos. Give credit where credit is due,
what little credit we can give. That was funny.
That was a cute character moment.
(54:39):
I wish we could have done it with the chaotic somehow.
Maybe not like that. If knuckles does 8 vector sure
in front of SBO. How you say that instead of like
charming, But either way, I mean, charming is too big
anyway, but just just a cute character moment.
These are the moments we could have had with the chaotics.
Sure. Or just at least one of them.
Like you. Like you said like, OK, sure.
(55:00):
Yeah. When the whole team is together,
that is, you're dispersing so much attention that it's it's
low. You don't have a lot of time to
develop. Yeah, it could have been
Knuckles and Vector because theywere hanging up before in that
one story. Or or even SPO or you still have
Archimedes, just have one of thechaotics with them.
Yeah, I forgot to make this point that yeah, why did we
(55:22):
introduce this whole Archimedes character?
And yeah, that was that's Knuckle.
Hey, this is Knuckles partner for this whole mini series.
Motherfucker, he has a team. What the hell?
Yeah, I'm with you. OK, so yes, back to the Oasis.
So we see Knuckles Dad. Oh, OK, OK OK I'm starting to
see this now. Could this could this
(55:42):
hallucination have been like is the technology?
That's exactly what I was tryingto say.
OK, OK, OK. And and then I was curious, does
Archimedes acknowledge it? I don't think so.
Archimedes does not acknowledge it.
He he acknowledges the Oasis, ofcourse, but he does not
acknowledge Dad. But so with this technology and
(56:06):
stuff, I, I could see it. So it's like, Oh yeah, you got
to have echidna vision. Or like, hey, the.
Brain wave. I'll accept echidna can see
different wavelengths than fire ants like on.
Ironically, I will accept that. They are far if it was like
Sonic, OK, that's a stretch, butif it's an Ant, I can there's
enough difference there. Sure.
(56:27):
Or like, hey, dad is like hey, Iswitched the the brain wave
frequencies. And honestly, that's probably
what it is like. Yours is closer to the truth, I
think. All of this assuming that it
isn't Duckles genuinely having ahallucination.
I mean, I don't think it is because.
The Oasis is there, I agree. I agree that would be such
terrible writing if you had a hallucination.
A real 1 followed by a real Oasis that was manipulated with
(56:54):
time and space or like materialized.
I should say it would be a really bad writing.
That'd be a real like, what the fuck are you doing?
Hey man, that's kind of not above this comic, I think.
This is writing. I've seen this before because
I've, I've done it myself, right?
Just in general, not even like fiction writing or anything, but
just when you're writing, you need to communicate.
(57:17):
You need to make sure the audience understands what you're
trying to do. If you are an advanced writer, a
really, really good writer, or just a writer who's like balls
to the wall, I don't care. Get on my level, then.
OK, you can do your own thing. But for a comic, I think you
need to have a level of do thesechildren understand what I'm
(57:40):
trying to say? And I think that's a good point
because as an adult, I don't know what he's.
Tried to say like challenge the audience, sure that's good.
I appreciate that. This isn't challenging, this is
just what the fuck bro? I'm with you and that's the
(58:00):
issue. Only 377 left to go.
I'm Nick. I stream at twitch.tv/mojo
Source. Did I do that right?
Is it 376? I'm you know what?
After I we're we're ahead. We.
Say this every fucking time I'm.Gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it for real. I'm gonna go count it out.
Are we gonna count Sonic X? Are we?
We're gonna do Sonic X. Well, this is the whole reason
that this became an issue was because I was like, we're doing
(58:22):
Sonic X and you're like, no, we're not so.
You want to do Sonic X? No, I do.
All right, let's do it. Count it up, baby.
My personal Blues official announcements.
We're also doing Sonic Adventure.
Let's Play. Yeah.
Which I gotta say it, it really does throw me off when he
doesn't have a Brooklyn accent. Yeah, it's it's same with me
(58:42):
too. It actually like, aggravates me.
You've made it so in my head, Knuckles is Brooklyn and.
It's better. It is better.
Better. Ken does.
Hey Ken Penders, you fucking cooked with that idea.
It would, dude. He did crush with that.
Yeah, you've read. Nickstreams@switch.tv/mojosaurus
(59:05):
and his personal blue sky is at Mojosaurus.
I'm Dominic. You can follow my jazz
adventures in Chicago at Blue Collar Jazz.
And my personal blue sky is at Dom Guan.
And stick with it, at least the Instagram, just because it is
shits pop it off in DC, which means shit may pop off elsewhere
(59:27):
in the country. And Chicago is preparing for it.
At least the the grassroots organizations are bracing for
impacts in the next few weeks and months.
You can follow us on socials at Gotta talk fast.
TikTok is Gotta Talk faster. We also have a video version of
the podcast where you can followalong with panels and our
handsome faces. Like, comment and subscribe.
(59:49):
You can write into the show at sonicgrams@gottatalkfast.com,
ask us questions, provide corrections and give us your
opinion on this week's issue. And remember, when life keeps
going fast, you got to talk fastand just get through it.
(01:00:13):
Gotta talk fast was written by Nick Folkerts and edited by
Dominic Guanzon. Intro and outro themes recorded
by Dominic Guanzon Gotta go fast.
Originally composed by Norman J Grossfeld, Joseph Garrity, and
Russell Velasquez. Gotta talk, gotta talk, gotta
talk, gotta talk, gotta talk.
Got to talk fast. Got to talk fast.
Got to talk faster, faster, faster.
Got to talk fast. Welcome to an oral review of
Archie Comics Sonic the Hedgehogreminding you to stretch.
Staying well stretched and nimble on a daily basis can keep
you prepared for when you suddenly need to be physically
active because you never know when you have to run.
(00:23):
It's also a great stubbing stoneto regular exercise.
It is it actually because the thing with exercise isn't so
much because like people fall into the trap of, hey, I did
this awesome holistic workout, the perfect workout routine.
I got it down just now. Now you need to do it every
other day, or how three times a week or whatever, for the rest
(00:46):
of your life or as long as you can hit your goals.
And that's the incredibly hard part.
It really is a marathon, not a Sprint.
See, I already have commitment issues with people, so yeah,
but. It's with yourself now.
Well, that's, you know, arguablyworse.
So I'm Nick. I wrote the script.
And I'm Dominic, and except for this intro, I haven't read any
of today's script. What are we we, we're going
(01:08):
fast. We're, we're just going right
into it, man. We're.
We're enter. We're enter jacking ourselves
right into this third issue. I I'm always enter jacking.
I was doing enter jacking. Enter jumping.
You got Enter jumping Jack. You can't even what Enter
jacking jumps. Yeah, earlier today and then I
(01:30):
was going to do some. You're gonna.
You're gonna. Play Energ Jax, which is that
game where you you bounce the ball and then oh.
Both more. Yeah, that was good.
That was good. But with more energy.
That's a good joke. Better writing than this than
this comic right now. Man, I, I, I, I had to finish up
(01:55):
writing it while Dominik was here and he heard me just like
swear out loud at something. So let's find out what that was.
We are reading Knuckles the enchidna #3 or I think it's
officially called Sonic's Friendly Nemesis.
Well, yeah. Knuckles the enchidna #3.
This is his miniseries here. Rites of Passage, Part 3,
(02:17):
released in July of 1996, written by Ken Penders and Mike
Kent Turnovich. Pencils by Art Mahwini.
Deep within the heart of Eben Citadel, the fate of everything
as we know it will be decided. Battle to be fought with neither
side offering or giving any quarter.
Here the past collides with the present as Descendant squares
(02:39):
off against ancestor. The fiercest of opponents in any
conflict are always those linkedwith the thickets of blood.
For them, matters become more personal as the struggle evolves
from the mere physical contest to 1 of conquering the
opponent's heart and soul. Up until now, Knuckles has been
master of all he surveyed on thetropical paradise known as the
(03:01):
Floating Island. Content in the belief that his
was a noble calling, he now he must fight for what he believes
in or surrender to a legacy of fear.
Although guided by his mentor, the fire Ant known as
Archimedes, Knuckles may find heneeds more than a little help.
He may need a miracle as well. The serene calm the night sky
(03:23):
over Necronopolis conceals well the conflict about to erupt.
Knuckles and Archimedes are surrounded by Mighty, SPL,
Vector and Mighty. Death feels right.
Knuckles and Knuckles and Archimedes are surrounded by
Mighty SPL, Vector and Charmy. The four are brainwashed and
(03:44):
about to attack Knuckles and Archimedes.
Archimedes does his fire breath attack to hold the four at Bay.
Vector runs to the conveniently placed fire hose nearby and
sprays Knuckles on Archimedes, creating a dense fog in the
room. A fist flies out of the fog,
punching Vector in the face whenEnerjac shows up and somehow
(04:04):
puts Knuckles and Archimedes to sleep.
Enerjac brings A2 to the top of a tower and they wake up.
It's time for Enerjac's monologue.
But before that, I do want to mention how dirty that fucking
water has to be because this is like a revived ancient, like
dead city for thousands of years.
(04:26):
Isn't revived like, is this like'cause I, I, I understand that
he rose like the city. I I don't know if I got the
implication that it's it Kinopolis.
It yes, it is in Kinopolis because it's that's why he
(04:49):
renamed like he renamed like Edmund renamed himself to
Enerjac and Kidnapolis is now called Necronopolis.
And in fact, we didn't talk about it last episode, but there
was another map on the OR did we?
No, we did not because it specifically set slave quarters
on it. And I was going to bring it up
and I forgot. That's OK, That's that's fucked
up. Let's talk about that.
(05:10):
Actually, let's pivot to that because it's massive.
OK, one second. So I'm going to have a hard time
seeing this, so you're going to have to.
That's OK, Describe it. Scroll just a little tiny bit
up. Thank you.
So we are now looking at the previous issue.
This is the second part of the miniseries, and this is the end
of the issue, which is a map of Necronopolis parentheses,
formerly Incanopolis. So that's what it says.
(05:30):
Oh it does. OK, I missed that completely.
I can see how you you missed it because the text is very weird.
Yeah. OK.
So does that imply that they used to have slave quarters or
is that something that Enerjac decided he needed?
They're not going to touch it. So we don't know.
Well, so in it doesn't it does it doesn't seem like the city of
(05:53):
tomorrow that was in Kidnapolis would have slaves.
So this had to be post blowing up in Kidnapolis and throwing
out all technology. And actually, yeah, the
implication there is that after after Incanopolis blew up all
their technology, they were like, we will rebuild with just
the land and just manual labor. It seems that they use slaves.
(06:17):
So the reason why I didn't and, and I should have now that I'm
thinking about it, like it just didn't click in my head because
there is a spot on here that specifically says Great Hall of
Learning. And so I know exactly where that
is in. It's energetic Citadel
parentheses, formerly Hall of Learning.
OK, there's a lot to touch on. So my first thing is this
(06:42):
doesn't look like a great city. So like it didn't like click in
my head because it seems pretty barren.
It just has like a few buildingsand the images we've seen of the
city, there are like hundreds and hundreds of skyscrapers.
So that's like, I've read this. I didn't see the part at the top
that said specifically what it was, but I saw the Great Hall of
(07:03):
Learning. But I think in my mind I was
just like, oh, that's probably like him recognizing his roots
or something. I don't know.
And being like this is my hall of learning where whatever, it
doesn't matter. The truth is, I, I the most
likely thing is we just, the writers don't have a sense of
scale. I think that's what it really
(07:24):
is. That makes sense.
But yes, everything we are I am reading into the text and it is
not checking out with me at all either.
So the thing that really confuses me is you just call
this Enerjac Citadel. That's what it says.
Enerjac Citadel Parentheses. Formerly Hall of Learning.
(07:45):
So where the fuck are we? Because we're in the Adan
Citadel, because that's what wassaid in the introduction of this
issue. And I, I, I literally wrote it
down to call it out because I was like, I don't know what this
is. Did we miss it?
Did we miss it in this previous issue?
No, I don't think so because I, I mean, maybe I'm not going to
(08:07):
sit down and reread the whole issue.
God, it's that's such a throw. It had to been a throwaway line
because I don't. Do you see I can't read it from
here? Do you see a different citadel
on here? No.
And you're sure it says EBON so?We're we're gonna.
Right. OK, so eben is lower case, so
maybe it's an adjective that we're not familiar with.
(08:29):
Oh, interesting. And our phones are currently
filming us and the computer's all the way over.
There and I don't have a keyboard with me.
This is. This is actually going to bother
me. I'm gonna get up and just do.
It OK, Is it like I was about tosay it, I was about to say is it
just Ebony and that? Makes sense, actually.
That makes sense actually. So OK.
(08:53):
I've I it's just. So what's the OK?
Hold on, wait, wait, wait. I actually, I actually get this
all makes sense now. So yes, you made the correct
connection. Eben is tied to Ebony because I
looked it up on Google and eben said so.
What does Ebony mean? Ebony is it's black like that's
'cause it. Means the same thing, It's just
(09:14):
more fun to say to Ebony. Yeah, I I think so.
I'd like it like Ebony magazine.I don't know, or so the the word
that I just realized as I lookedit up is that it's the Eben Hawk
from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, which you haven't
played yet. No.
No, it definitely in my opinion one of the greatest RPGs.
(09:35):
OK, no, I did play that game when it came out and I got to
the part, the twist OK, And thenlike, I don't know, I was like,
that was cool. And then I literally just
stopped playing. I don't know why.
And so I don't know what happens.
One of the greatest twists in probably video games 'cause it
(09:57):
blew everyone's mind it. Was a good twist.
It was a very good quest twist. So Eben Citadel.
So it's just him as a fancy wordfor just hey, it's a dark ass
citadel. Hey, you know what, thank you
either Mike or Kind for teachingus that Ebony also is Eben.
And maybe there is a slight difference, but I it's it's like
negligent slaves. Quarters.
(10:22):
Yeah, they have. So so post blow up the Enchidnas
used slaves or is it Enerjac? I think, I think it's Enerjac.
I think this, I think the implication is Enerjac.
Is evil. That's that's it.
And he was just like, I'm going to need these, I think.
But man but. Like he just raised the city,
What does he need a slave? What does he need slaves for?
(10:45):
Right I guess is my question. You're like, is he building?
You can move matter with your mind, he.
Can make mountains he has. Seven chaos emeralds in one or
something or 6, I don't know. So like.
If anything, he's just doing it 'cause he's bored.
Yeah. Which also like I guess.
Could be the sadism. He could be a sadist.
Well, and like, I guess we're getting ahead of ourselves.
But like, he did enslave the minds of the chaotic screw so
(11:12):
they have to hang out somewhere.Yeah, I.
Wonder if that's how they got there.
It's time for Energec's monologue, all right?
Don't do any of the clicking things.
Yeah, I wasn't going to. All right, so my program puppets
bring the Enchidna and fire Ant to me.
(11:33):
After all, it's been a long timesince I visited with family.
But I'm quite sure Enchidna, youhaven't any concept just how
long, But I'd wager, I'd wager the fire Ant does.
Did you know that at one time the Enchidnas were the most
advanced species on Mobius? Bro, my brother Edmund and I
were Enchidnopolis as top scientists and it was our dream
(11:56):
to restore the floating island to its native Mobius.
Utilizing the energy of the Chaos Emeralds, I created the
Chaos Siphon, which would gradually absorb the energy
generated by the emeralds, thus lowering us until we were
rejoined with the land. However, we were denied by the
Council of Elders foolish old men, too weak willed to see that
(12:21):
our predicament required a solution that was bold and
daring and gnarly. Bra.
Unfortunately, my brother was among them, and so it felt to me
to carry out the plan. What I didn't count on was a
redirection of the energy that was channelled into me, changing
(12:42):
me into something more. However, while I planned, in my
arrogance, I had not taken into account your ancestors mentoring
the fray fire Ant they foiled myplans, bringing down my own
creation upon me. I suppose my brother Edmund took
(13:03):
it upon himself to make atonement for my deeds, probably
racked with guilt over my death.But I did not die.
For untold generations I lay in utter blackness until the time
was right for my rebirth. And with my renewed life force,
I emerged free to conquer a world and beyond.
(13:24):
Of all who could possibly stand in my way were you 2?
Making your removal from the scene was my highest priority.
I admit amazement that you made it here through the desert.
Knuckles realizes that Ener Jackhas no knowledge of the Oasis
that saved his and Archimedes his life.
(13:45):
Ener Jack continues. You can't even begin to
comprehend the power I wield. Power so limitless that the
energy it takes to hold this island aloft can create a new
tower from the earth. Only this time, I don't foresee
it collapsing anytime soon. And I'll be so short, buddy pal.
(14:07):
History just might repeat itself, right Archimedes?
Archimedes then beams information from his mind to
other fire ants, and they start marching towards the Dark City.
Enerjac starts attacking Knuckles and Archimedes, using
this time to make a puff of smoke, clouding both Knuckles
(14:29):
and Archimedes, allowing them todisappear.
Enerjac sends a command over thespeaker system for the
hypnotized chaotics, who are playing poker to locate Knuckles
and Archimedes. They rush off, obeying their
master. We cut the outside.
Thousands of fire ants are now marching into the Dark City.
(14:50):
We cut back inside to Knuckles and Archimedes, who are in the
vents above Enerjac. They drop down on Enerjac for a
surprise attack. The attack essentially does
nothing and Knuckles is knocked down to the ground.
What did you hope to accomplish with that maneuver?
That I laughed myself silly. How disappointing.
(15:12):
I at least expected better of you.
And kidna. The name is Knuckles man.
Just like hearing it back-to-back.
It's so stupid. The name is Knuck.
Brooklyn. Yes, it is Brooklyn.
My name is Neo. And the name's Knuckles.
(15:35):
Annie, Jack. Or should I say Great Uncle
Dimitri, the only kidna. Whoever put himself over his own
kind. I've known all about you for a
long time. I am what I am because of yours,
Ener. Jack lunges forward, attacking
while talking. Nah, brah, you are who you are
(15:58):
because of my spineless brother.You are who you are because of
all the scared sheep on the Grand Council.
They didn't have my vision or mycourage to ride this gnarly wave
we cut out. Wait, where does it 'cause I, I
(16:18):
feel like I do remember thinkingit should be scared and it said
sacred. Yeah, right there.
No, you're right. OK, so for the record, I usually
correct in real time Knicks typos, but this was this was a
correct one or you know, it was he did it correctly.
It says sacred. I think that's just a typo.
(16:40):
I think so too, but I specifically was like, that
doesn't seem like why would he call them sacred if he like
doesn't like them? But I know I could see.
I could see where it's like, Oh yeah, you high, holy sacred
sheep. I could see it that way too.
So maybe that's the intention. It just didn't click with us.
So there's a fault in the writing, at least in the
(17:00):
communication, OK. And Dominic is right to correct
my typos because there's there'senough of.
Them there are a lot. So look, I would say like 70% of
the time of I also do, if you'venoticed, if you're watching
this, there's a lot of cuts and a lot of the time it's just
straight up a mistake that Nick makes. 30% of the time though,
it's like I'm genuinely not reading it correctly.
(17:21):
Or Dominic interpreted my writing as a mistake when I'm
like, no, that's the joke, yes. Yes, sometimes that's.
What does happen? A bit, and sometimes I let it
slide, sometimes I don't. Yes, because, well, it's just
that the level of writing we're dealing with here.
OK, We cut outside of the tower.The fire ants have attached
rockets to the side of the tower.
(17:44):
The Rockets start blasting off, the ground beneath Knuckles
crumbles and Enerjack is flown away in the tower.
As Knuckles falls from the tower, he switches to glide mode
and safely lands on Angel Island.
Those steam powered dreads, Knuckles and Archimedes now
stand in front of the thousands of ants who saved their lives.
Archimedes thanks them. This is random Ant.
(18:07):
What does a random Ant sound like?
OK, just whatever. More squeaky.
Yeah, exactly. But Archimedes, we only created
an escape route so you could getaway.
We had nothing to do with launching the Citadel into the
space. It sounds like a less
enthusiastic Mickey Mouse. Yeah, I really got Oh.
Just then, the city vanishes. We cut to the Chaotic Screw, who
(18:30):
just happened to be laying near Knuckles and Archimedes.
Waking up from their hypnotic trance, the Chaotic Screw
thanked Knuckles for saving their lives.
You know, for once guys, I can'ttake credit.
It was a combination of things and added up when I put them
together. My dad's story plus Archimedes,
(18:51):
plus Energex. I could have never defeated
Energex on my own. However, I could depend on the
unlikeliest of sources for help.I stood a better than even
chance of beating them. Up until now, I was basically a
loner, relying only on myself. I think Enerjac sensed that and
(19:13):
figured I wouldn't go beyond it.I simply learned from history.
Enerjac didn't. This is Archimedes, for all his
omnipotence. Even Enerjac didn't know about
the Oasis we found in the middleof nowhere, and we still have no
clue where it came from or disappeared to.
Mate. We cut to an older Enchidna
(19:35):
watching these events unfold viatheir monitor.
This Enchidna has video and sound and hears Vector scream
out Let's party. So what is what is old Enchidna?
Who? I know who it is.
Well, technically we already decided the voice last time,
which was James Earl Jones. Got it.
(19:56):
As well you should, Especially you knuckles.
You've conducted yourself nobly and well.
By distracting your great uncle through valiant combat, you
allowed me to complete the the rocket engines that carried from
me, that carried him from this world.
Without your efforts, all would have been lost.
(20:16):
You understood the message of history.
We are all together as one. That you accepted Archimedes as
an ally gladdens me further. Though natural opposites, both
anchidnas and fire ants are intertwined for mutual benefit.
Thus, the relationship continuesfor me.
I shall keep a watchful eye as my forefathers have done for
(20:41):
countless generations. Or isn't it the father's duty to
look after his son? The twist here is he is
Archimedes father, not Knuckles.That'd be crazy.
He gave birth to a fire Ant. So the he gave birth.
Hey, do you understand their anatomy 'cause I don't.
(21:04):
Maybe they're seahorses. This this is actually a plot
point in in Invincible. Do you know that show?
I know of it. I've never watched it.
Yeah. A human fucks an Ant.
Nice. Yeah.
OK, so it's just the evolution of the Sonic comics.
Yes, exactly. They actually take direct
inspiration. We cut back to Archimedes and
Knuckles on Angel Island quotingCasablanca, saying this is the
(21:28):
beginning of a beautiful friendship.
We cut the space and see the tower flying through space with
Enerjack laughing. The end.
So to make it clear, because I did write in the script, because
I I I write the script as I'm reading it to try to give it
(21:50):
more of AI. Don't read the script.
Read the issue and then write the script.
I write it as I read it to kind of give it a more like.
I'm reacting to this. Reacting yeah maybe not the best
writing style but I think for this exact purpose it works.
They try tricking you into thinking the fire ants put the
(22:11):
Rockets on so that's why I wrotethe fire ants put on the
Rockets. But then we find out that it was
actually Knuckles dad who is alive who just can
telepathically put on rockets. Maybe they'll explain that maybe
they don't we're obviously talking about the rocket thing
now because that makes me so fucking angry.
(22:34):
I don't the fire ants are like we just gave you an escape
route. What does that mean it?
Doesn't. It literally makes no fucking
sense. Scroll.
Back up to the ants or you want me to do it?
Yeah, because I, I literally, I tried to figure out what the
ants did then. And I was like, these ants
didn't do anything. All they did was March into the
(22:54):
building. What what does he mean?
Unless if like they chewed the bottom of the tower.
So that's. What I was thinking is similar
to how they did the first time. Yeah, what the IT would make
sense to mirror the Angel Islandwith the tower from like a
thematic point of view, I guess.I don't even know if it really
(23:14):
works thematically. Oh, OK, no, no, I I see what
happened here. OK, so Knuckles and Archimedes
are standing in front of Enerjack.
Yes. And the hole is like buzz sawed
around them where they're standing.
Oh Looney tune style. So it's like a circle around
where they're standing. They interpret that as.
The rocket. Thing the rocket lifted off and
(23:35):
the bottom of the like tower gotdestroyed from the rocket
lifting right? Right, right.
But no So what there was a lot happening here visually that you
had to kind of read into or likelook in details.
I wish. I appreciate.
I do appreciate that. It's just dumb.
But so you actually made a joke.You made a joke last time, I
(24:00):
think where it was or saw however many episodes ago you
were like, yeah, so they some the the the structure lifted and
literally where they stood, where they sit is, is like
there's a hole around them and they didn't lift.
That is actually kind of what just happened with the fire.
The fire ants cut a hole around Knuckles and Archimedes.
(24:21):
And when the rocket went up, conveniently at the same time,
the ground that was cut dropped underneath them, and that's how
they escaped. So I'm since since we're right
here and this is what we're talking about and we're not
normally we try to you know, do overall opinions and then zero
in, but I'm so fucking pissed atall of this.
(24:42):
Why doesn't why is Enerjack stuck on the tower?
Why can't he jump through the hole that Knuckles?
He's right. He watched it happen.
Knuckles is like literally not even 5 feet in front of him.
Why? Why?
You're gonna tell me this fuckercan't fly?
You're gonna tell me that he. Was he was flying or at least
really really long jumping through through the tunnels like
(25:05):
the first issue this. Guy has how many Chaos Emeralds
10 in him, and you're gonna tellme this guy's not just gonna
jump down to the Earth? I don't understand.
I genuinely don't understand howhe doesn't just Doctor Manhattan
just vaporize everyone. Yeah.
Like, I don't, I don't, I don't get what's happening here.
They, they, whoever decided thisshould be the villain is insane
(25:29):
because there's only one way to defeat him, which is through the
Chaos Siphon, which I mean, obviously he's going to come
back and if they're going to deal with him, that's how they
have to kill him. But like, I don't understand how
he lets himself go into outer space.
I'm sorry, I it's just like noneof that makes any fucking sense
(25:50):
and. Also, why is he laughing?
Because he's gonna go conquer another planet and then come
back and attack Mobius after conquering this planet.
And then they're gonna have an intergalactic war.
They're doing Planet Hulk and so.
Maybe. Actually, that's very possible.
I I don't know if that's what they're doing.
That's just my, my immediate guess.
(26:11):
I'm not done. Yeah, OK.
Because how does how does these rockets attach to the tower?
Yeah. OK.
So magnets. OK, how do magnets work?
But you see in this. Panel that they're they're just
like clamping they're. Clamping.
OK. And so Knuckles dad programmed
(26:33):
these rockets, these boosters. Yeah, to.
Or is he controlling them with his mind?
I don't get what's. Happening out of these control,
I think it's the technology, OK,'cause you remember Incanopolis
is a hyper advanced civilization, so maybe he dug up
some of that old, old tech whichwas actually very advanced and
yeah, did that. So I mean, look, he's he.
(26:55):
For he is watching all of this unfold from a a pretty advanced
looking control room. This is this is another problem
I fucking have. If, if Enerjac is as strong as
they say he is, it feels pretty risky for Knuckles's dad to just
hang back and watch this unfold,right?
(27:18):
That's insane in itself. Is this more of that trial
bullshit? Yeah.
But that should not be a trial. Yeah, yeah.
That that's that's the test. No, that's not the test.
That's what the test is preparing you for.
Like this is all the testing you're trying to do here.
Doesn't make sense. That like that he that is if he
if he failed which he the only reason.
(27:40):
OK this pisses me off. So sorry, I know you probably
have things to say. No, it's OK.
I get this. I like I've I've I went for it.
The his knuckles, his dad littlemonologue fucking bullshit where
he's just like you, you've luredthe sun and he's like.
That's very good. That's a very good deep poisnic.
(28:02):
I've got I've got surprises, butlike the he's just like you
distracted him and well enough so that I can attach rockets
onto his tower and he's making it sound like Knuckles planned
these things that Knuckles was like, you know what I mean?
(28:22):
Like verbatim. The quote is something along the
lines of like, thank you for distracting Ener Jack long
enough so I can like do this thing.
And it made it sound like that was Knuckles plan when Knuckles
was just losing a fight. He wasn't winning that fight.
From his point of view, from hispoint of view, Knuckles Dad, he
(28:44):
could have been like improvising.
It's like, OK, they're fighting.I don't know if my son's going
to win or not, but they're fighting long enough where I can
at least launch the Rockets, attach and launch the Rockets.
Or yes, he, he was planning thisthe whole time.
He, I do hate it. I do hate it when there's this
(29:05):
long series of events and there's a character like, yes, I
I planned all of this. 10 billion calculations and this is
the one I knew that was going tosucceed.
Something like that. The other thing Enerjac could
just like take away knuckles as oxygen or something and that's
why he Knuckles and Archimedes like pass out.
(29:28):
There's your window. Yeah, there's your window.
Why'd he stop taking out the oxygen?
Cause Enerjac, Enerjac is not shown to be like a noble warrior
where it's like aha I am evil but at least I have respect for
No, he doesn't care. He.
Just wants the power. I agree.
I agree. OK, I I'm kind of taking control
(29:49):
of the conversation. I'm gonna step back.
Is there anything you want to say 'cause I I do have a laundry
list of things I need? To get, I'll let you take the
lead on this. So I'll do a fun one right now.
I do think it's really funny that they ask themselves the
question if you're hypnotized, what do you do when you're not
(30:10):
being like the like, they're clearly still hypnotized, the
Chaotics crew, but they're just like hanging out playing poker.
That's what I. Like, I don't know, in my mind,
I guess if you're not doing the task that was given to you,
you're like standing still like a robot.
Yeah, that's how it should, because that makes the most
sense. But here they retain their
(30:32):
personalities, it seems, and they're just playing cards.
It's so weird. Why did they have?
Why did they have to draw it like that?
I don't know, I kind of love it actually.
I think it's like a really dumb fun thing because just the idea
that they're the same person butthey just hate Knuckles for some
reason. So go at the end of this issue
there is yet another. So this whole thing has every
(30:55):
single issue here has had map sofar and this map is the Citadel
of Darkness Energec Citadel of Darkness and and the they map
out the room the recreation lounge great for card playing.
Yeah, so he may. Enerjac had that thought when he
made this build. It was, you know what?
You know what's funnier? If he hypnotized them to play
(31:16):
poker. He's like, I got this card room,
someone's got to use it. All right, I'm going to, I'm
going to fight Knuckles one-on-one.
So y'all just play? Just play some cards bro, yeah.
Just play hand or two. We're not play play spoons.
One thing I like, there's something I really like in this
(31:39):
issue. I think it's failed miserably,
but I like the attempt of tryingto tell the same story over and
over again from multiple points of views.
It's just the points of views didn't change at all, really.
Like they all say the same fucking thing and so it's not
(31:59):
interesting, but I like the ideaand I'm specifically talking
about when Enerjack was talking about his interpretation of
events with when he was trying to talk to the Citadel and
whatnot and be like. To the high counselor.
Or whatever and be like, hey, this is I'm we need to do this
to like save the Angel Island and whatnot.
(32:21):
Motivation. It's character motivation.
Yeah, it's just like, but we knew that this like seeing it
from his point of view didn't change anything.
It it wasn't like a light bulb moment to be like, oh, you know
what, he makes sense now. Or like it didn't change my
interpretation of events, which is why you would do something
like this. So it's just a waste of our
(32:43):
fucking time because it's literally just repeating the
same things we've known. And they did this last issue
too. And it's like I, I get what
you're trying to do, but you're failing.
And so you're just reiterating a, you're wasting 2 pages here
saying the same thing that we know have known.
You're literally redrawing the same panels.
(33:05):
Yeah, exactly. And these aren't newly drawn
because the way like these aren't superimposed, they the
way they do it, they have to be drawing it again. 100% so that
that's my opinion of that. I think it's a cool idea, but
unless of it like changes our opinion on something or like
enlightens gives character motivation in a way that we
didn't see before, there's literally no point to doing it
(33:27):
so. Like there's no new information
exactly. And I can, I can see like, Oh,
no, because we already understand Enerjac's point of
view. We already understand it.
We don't need to reiterate it. Yeah, this is, this may come as
a shock. You guys didn't have the most
(33:49):
complicated motivation so. Oh, I'm sorry, I don't know if
we finished talking about this, but when Vector sprayed Knuckles
with that fire hose, you know. What's really funny is I was
just about to bring that up. That was my last bullet point,
which was, I just found it really it.
I think you were going to say different things, but I think it
(34:10):
would have reminded you to bringit back to that concept, which
was I just got really annoyed that they use fog to escape
twice in a single issue. This was fucking lazy.
So, so I do appreciate it when they when characters use powers
multiple times in a short amountof time, But then I'm like, oh,
it'd be cool if they anticipatedit.
It's like, Oh, I got you the first time.
(34:31):
No, it's not like. It's two different.
So the first time the fog was because I guess fog isn't the
right word because it's steam, it's the fire.
He's breathing fire and vector sprays him with water and so
that's super foggy. You can't see anything.
(34:52):
Later on Archimedes uses like a smoke bomb.
It isn't anything like that. So it's not using the same
power. He just has a smoke bomb for
some reason. Well, yeah, I'll accept smoke
bomb. Do not get me wrong.
I'm not sitting here being like,it's a fine device, I guess to
get them out of the situation. If anything, I'm more angry at
(35:14):
the water hose one because it's fucking insane to just have a
water hose on the wall right there.
I don't know, I I feel like you could have been more clever with
trying to get Knuckles and Archimedes out of that
situation. And the fact that they do it
twice in the same issue just rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah, they're they're just lazy writing.
(35:34):
I'm sorry, the villains are not are not learning.
Yeah, so. No one's learning.
No one's learning anything. What were you gonna say about
the water? It's just nasty ass water,
'cause it's yeah, it's gross. It's probably.
Over 1000 years old stuck in those pipes.
That and also it would technically wouldn't even be
water at that point, it would just be sludge.
But the yeah, there's that. And also like even regular fire
(35:56):
hose water or or like sprinkler water.
Different than fire hose water I.
Think I don't know. Because I think they
specifically put chemicals in the in the sprinklers, in the
sprinklers. Antifreeze is it.
That's what I've been told from certain facilities, people who
like work in, who like to handlethat stuff.
I probably know who that person was.
Who? Told actually yes, and in fact
(36:17):
what it was is that a sprinkler pipe had cracked and I had to
deal with that because it was getting all over our shit, all
over our equipment. You.
Never told me about this. No, I didn't.
And what? A crack.
Old age, like I think like no one hit it.
It was so high up, no one could have hit it.
And it's like, yeah, I know the smell is just antifreeze.
(36:38):
That's all it is. That makes sense.
I wonder if it's a mixture of water in antifreeze or if it's
all antifreeze. I don't know, because it either
way it has to. Dumbass.
Fire isn't cold. It doesn't freeze.
That's true. No, I'm kidding.
Why do they need antifreeze? No, no, no.
But yeah, no, because they flushit out.
They flush out the the pipes. Oh, that makes sense.
(36:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this all makessense.
Yeah, that's just, that's right about it.
Yeah, between like antifreeze and other chemicals and just
thyme and sludge, just really nasty ass water.
That's like, that's enough to knock you out all on its own.
All right, next, next topic. Oh, you have the mouse, so no,
no, that's fine. What do you what do you want to
(37:19):
cover 'cause I cover? You, you take the lead.
Well, OK, let's but that was it.I kind of did my big rants that
I was really fucking annoyed about.
So let's let's talk about the mini series as a whole.
No, I didn't finish what I was fucking talking about because
this fucking pit. So OK, well, OK, I guess I guess
this leads into the bigger question.
(37:39):
So I guess I can step back a second.
How do you you might actually say what I'm going to say.
How do you feel about the miniseries as a whole?
Do you think it accomplished what it was trying to
accomplish, which was, I guess, the lessons learned that
Knuckles needed to learn to teamup?
So there's there's the there's the emotional like character
growing moments and then there are like lessons at the end.
(38:01):
That's the that's that arc. And then there's the practical
physical like what the fuck justhappened in real time
situations? So how do you think those
payouts were? OK, so Knuckles attempted to
explain or the writers attemptedto explain it that, oh, hey, I
needed to learn to look into my past or my history and also work
with Archimedes. I can kind it's not well done,
(38:26):
but I can kind of buy it with appreciating your own past and
history. I that's that's a personal thing
for me as well because I am a the son of Filipino immigrants.
So I was like, OK, I get that. I actually do kind of connect
with that. Was it done the best?
Kind of sort of there was a lot of info dumps.
So you could you combine that lesson with with exposing or
like lore with more lore dumping.
(38:48):
It's like, OK, fine, sure, that's fine with me teaming up
with Archimedes. That was a little forced.
That was a very fast and how, because it was just so like
here, like Archimedes himself was not enough of a of a
antagonist facing knuckles for me to appreciate him turning
into a a a an ally. So there's that critique.
(39:10):
But OK, sure, team up with Archimedes.
Fine, whatever, We just formed the chaotics a couple months
ago, like 3-4 five months ago, which is relatively recent,
right? They have done Jack shit
(39:31):
together as a team after their formation.
Well, that's because we're gonnanow we can be a team.
He knuckles needed to go throughthis in our I disagree.
Also, I'm being I'm being a Dickand I know this is what the
writers are thinking but. No, you didn't.
No, you didn't. You didn't learn a God damn
(39:53):
thing. Well, and so you.
Didn't learn to bond with the chaotics.
That was the problem. Which, to be kind of Fair, not
really. Knuckles didn't even say that.
How cool would it have been if we actually had a team up moment
with the team? At the very end.
Or just in general? Yeah, So I want I want a
(40:13):
question I'm gonna ask is you specifically said Knuckles was
able to look into the past to learn how to face the trials of
today. Right.
My question and and I might be there might it might be how can
(40:34):
I word this? How do you think he applied the
past for today's lessons? Because the past, Well, what is
the story of the past? The past is.
Inkadnopoulos, it is the, you know, Mount Fate, correct?
(40:54):
It is Enerjac, it is Dimitri andEdmund, it is the High council,
it is the lessons of Inkadnopoulos as this
technological powerhouse high onits own supply, very arrogant
society. And the fire ants were the ones
who were really the the real physical labor over class
(41:15):
learning or not learning, you know, physical force that made
Incandopoulos what it was with 0appreciation.
It was that right? None of it applies.
None of it really applied to theto the the process or the final
fight. Yeah, it was all just lore
dumping. Exactly, that's all that was.
The point I was trying to make is I do not understand how
(41:39):
learning these things from the past made Knuckles be able to
fight in the present. Did not equip him with anything
at all to help fight energetic. And I don't see the parallels of
the past story to the modern one.
And maybe they're there and I'm an idiot like that, that is.
No, but like the present just reads as evil.
(42:01):
Guy wants to take over the world.
That's it. Yeah, whereas the previous issue
was man versus nature. It was a society trying to fight
a comet. Well, I mean the the exact so
for this exact story that they're trying to tell, it seems
like what they needed to do was however, it.
(42:24):
So it's Dimitri and Edmond and they have a falling out.
And I guess however Edmund failed, Knuckles has to succeed,
right? In order for it to be a lesson
learning from the past. I don't understand how Edmund
(42:47):
failed. I got, I guess they he failed.
I'm sorry, this is something I haven't really thought about
this yet. So I'm kind of talking through
it and seeing if I can like kindof make something work here.
So Edmund failed in the sense that he believed science would
(43:11):
be stronger than nature. And and then I see, I guess I
just don't, I'll be honest with you.
I need to sit with this. I'll be honest with you, I don't
even see a science versus naturething really other than the
initial Like the comet is heading to hurtling towards
(43:32):
whatever 'cause if anything science one they they literally
moved a city out of the way of aof a comet.
Well, and so. I it it's a it's and I'm I'm
actually being serious when I say this.
This is a class story. This is a class lesson because
of the the fire ants. The closest thing to a real
development and lesson and like thing here is the fire ants.
(43:53):
But I don't. I've got two things here.
One how are there fire ants on the island?
Shut up. That's a legitimate question
dude. So all the fire ants went and
lifted the island up. So did they split society?
(44:13):
Are there fire ants down on Mobius and fire ants on the
island? And they've developed different
societies now. There's a North Side and there's
a South Side of Chicago, Nick. OK, OK, I just needed that
answered I guess and. And there's an upside and a
downside in fires. Like when they meet up again,
they're like, hey, what's up? Interesting.
(44:34):
There's a whole like airline that shuttles between the nook.
Wait. Are you starting to think like I
am? No.
He's getting it. He's starting to believe no.
No, no, no, no, no. What was your weight?
No, for a second I thought like is the is the island still in
the air? Yes, yes it is 'cause they went
to space, so I thought it was inthe ground for some reason.
(44:55):
Never. Mind, No, no, no.
Yeah, I've, I I legitimately forgot my other point.
Now with the fire ants. Oh, 'cause I was gonna say,
couldn't there be more of an argument that the ants are
nature? OK, you know what?
That's a read. That's I, I, I can see it now.
I, I can. I'm starting to see it that way.
Sure. Yeah.
(45:18):
I don't agree with it for the record, I'm just saying.
It's not well done because I, I think OK, are, are they a
parallel for like natives, like Native Americans or Native,
whatever? It's like indigenous populations
perhaps. Yeah, OK.
I'm starting to. Well, because the ants look like
they don't really have technology.
(45:39):
No, they have some civilization 'cause they they talk about each
other, they can communicate. They can psychically talk to
everyone now. Archimedes can like, operate
technology. They're sentient, they're
sentient. They can, they have advanced
thought and they can, they have a society.
Yes. So, OK, OK, it could be like an
indigenous Reed. Maybe.
(46:00):
But either way, I'm just seeing it more at the real lesson here
that I'm taking away. Well, and so sorry, I'm going to
push back only because I I got my read was that the echidnas
didn't even know that the fire ants did what they did.
Correct. That is, that is what it is.
(46:20):
And so I think it's hard to interpret that as a class thing
when, well, OK, I just thought of how you could, but the main
population doesn't understand that these people came and
(46:41):
lifted them up. Now, obviously, as I say that
out loud, I understand that capitalism would or just.
Like middle class arrogance. Yeah, where I don't realize that
buying my chocolate means that Iendorse child slavery because.
I mean, there's there's that, but it's also even just to the
myth of like, oh, I'm the self-made man.
(47:02):
I I own this middle class home in a in a nice neighborhood.
I did it all by myself. Sure, no other society didn't
help me fun. I wasn't, you know, the, the,
the road system never didn't help me.
Transit education, nothing helped me.
It was all me, baby. I'll say I'm not pushing back as
(47:24):
hard now, but also I don't thinkwhat the ants did make sense.
Yeah. Why did they do it?
Why did? Why did they do all well?
Not only why did they do? It look at lifting the island
the first time wait 1500 years ago whatever that I can see it
like oh like we're gonna help these guys.
What if, what if they just hatedAkin does a lot and they're
like, we just wanna they they wanna fucking leave.
(47:47):
Let's let's help. Let's get them out of here.
See, I like that. OK.
And. That's why there's no fire ants
up there. Yeah.
Where? Where so?
Well, assuming there aren't justnative fire ants on the island
that went along with the island,right?
(48:07):
Which I. Well, I mean, Archimedes is
Australian, so he's obviously onthe island like again.
It just could be a different like faction of not faction but
regional ants. Like I realize there's red ants,
there's black ants, there's brown ants.
Yeah, I, yeah, I'm. Assuming also the telepathy, I'm
(48:28):
assuming that's that's more so how just like ants in real life
can talk to each other without click.
Yeah, you know what I mean. I'm being a Dick, OK?
So, yeah, I I think our overall opinion of these issues are
poor. I don't think they succeeded in
trying to tell the story that they're trying to tell.
(48:51):
I think it would have been a lotbetter if if you're going down
the hit hypnotic route to make the chaos crew do a heist.
What? Honestly anything other than
what they did because the only cool thing they did was play
poker. Yeah, the the like the whole
(49:13):
everything with the caddox has been a waste of time.
I don't think Knuckles true. The only lesson I feel like
Knuckles learned is nothing. I just like.
I just. Like, he's just like telling us,
like the writers are like, this is what he learned, but I'm
like, show, show me how we learned that, right?
(49:35):
What are you going to say? I apologize.
No, no. No, no, it's, it's that's like
we, I cannot get over the fact that we just teamed up with the
the chaotics we just formed earlier this year.
If we're, if we're looking at the comics in real time, like
issue by issue, month by month as they're released.
We just teamed up with the chaotics and it's like, here's
the team, baby, we got it. We can't.
(49:56):
We're all, we're about ready to go on some exciting adventures
together. And yes, there's going to be
some growing pains. This isn't even growing pains.
This is just nothing happened. The chaotics were separated from
their team leader, which is Knuckles, right.
And he had to, he had to rescue them.
Yeah. And no, nothing was learned.
(50:18):
The chaotics were not developed as characters.
The chaotics didn't learn any lessons of their own because
they were hypnotized or just eaten ribs, you know, in a
temple. That was weird.
Just nothing at all. What a complete waste of an
opportunity. I mean, that's that's so far
been the the theme I think of Archie comics and I think that
(50:41):
will be my that'll be my thesis is what a waste of an
opportunity. Like, like if, if the next time
we see the chaotics crew together and it's, and they're
like acting like they've been onall these adventures and it's
like, oh, man, remember back in the day or like, Hey, we're,
we're like, we're like torso tight now because we, we've been
(51:03):
through all this ordeal. No, you haven't, you haven't
learned a goddamn thing. I don't, I don't know what there
is to celebrate with this crew. Just a waste.
Just a complete waste. Something to touch on that I
forgot to bring up is do we think that?
Well, OK, let's take a step back.
(51:24):
Do we like the knuckles Dad reveal?
It's do I like it? I'm neutral on it.
I I'm actually so apathetic to it I don't have an opinion.
I hate it, obviously. OK, I shouldn't say obviously, I
I think it's a lot more interesting that Knuckles is
like an orphan trying to how canI word this?
(51:47):
I think it's a more interesting story of Knuckles trying to
learn about his past and cultureby himself and kind of winging
it and kind of deciding this is what it is.
And like, I mean, obviously he had his father and his father
taught him stuff, but like, how much do you actually take in
when you're 5 or 6, right? And so now he's an adult and
(52:09):
he's trying to remember these things that his dad was trying
to like, teach him. I think that's a cool, not maybe
not cool that you're an orphan, but it's a, it's an interesting
idea, right? And having his dad just be alive
takes away from that. On top of it, I hate hate hate,
and maybe I'm wrong that this isthe inspiration, but I hate the
(52:31):
fact that they're trying to makehim look like a Jedi.
Yeah, yeah. And and honestly I wouldn't
normally say it's a Jedi, but the fact that he is surrounded
by a bunch of future tech. While wearing a.
Wearing a robe, I'm like, he's aJedi.
Yeah, and also we know Ken Penders has a hard on for Star
Wars, which is fine. I I do too, but it's just stop
(52:53):
forcing it on on this aesthetic.It's I'm already upset at the
fact that it's his dad, which wecalled don't forget back when
they hinted at someone because remember someone was watching
Archimedes I. I know you did, at least.
I don't know if I want if I was just put my hands up, but I know
you did. I'm well, you can edit it in if
(53:15):
I'm wrong, just be like he didn't call that out.
But I I guess the the old technology is probably
incredibly advanced. Do you think it's advanced
enough to create quick? Great what create in Oasis?
(53:35):
Could be maybe like. Material made it disappear like.
Materialized. 'Cause that pisses me off and
it's a plot point. They drove it home.
They we have seen time and time again hyper advanced scientific
marvels and technology are introduced and then used way
(53:57):
below the capabilities. That is an issue with so much
media. Don't get me wrong, but in this
whole comic series all together it is a repeated issue of like
just fucking use this man you have it.
What is going on? So limit in?
Give me a reason why it's limited in this some way?
(54:18):
Can you go back to the last issue?
Oh, we. Didn't talk about this.
Knuckles just fucking eats Archimedes.
I thought that was really funny and.
Yeah, it was good. It that was actually a really
funny, like that's a very knuckles thing to do.
Yeah. So actually, you know what?
Kudos. Give credit where credit is due,
what little credit we can give. That was funny.
That was a cute character moment.
(54:39):
I wish we could have done it with the chaotic somehow.
Maybe not like that. If knuckles does 8 vector sure
in front of SBO. How you say that instead of like
charming, But either way, I mean, charming is too big
anyway, but just just a cute character moment.
These are the moments we could have had with the chaotics.
Sure. Or just at least one of them.
Like you. Like you said like, OK, sure.
(55:00):
Yeah. When the whole team is together,
that is, you're dispersing so much attention that it's it's
low. You don't have a lot of time to
develop. Yeah, it could have been
Knuckles and Vector because theywere hanging up before in that
one story. Or or even SPO or you still have
Archimedes, just have one of thechaotics with them.
Yeah, I forgot to make this point that yeah, why did we
(55:22):
introduce this whole Archimedes character?
And yeah, that was that's Knuckle.
Hey, this is Knuckles partner for this whole mini series.
Motherfucker, he has a team. What the hell?
Yeah, I'm with you. OK, so yes, back to the Oasis.
So we see Knuckles Dad. Oh, OK, OK OK I'm starting to
see this now. Could this could this
(55:42):
hallucination have been like is the technology?
That's exactly what I was tryingto say.
OK, OK, OK. And and then I was curious, does
Archimedes acknowledge it? I don't think so.
Archimedes does not acknowledge it.
He he acknowledges the Oasis, ofcourse, but he does not
acknowledge Dad. But so with this technology and
(56:06):
stuff, I, I could see it. So it's like, Oh yeah, you got
to have echidna vision. Or like, hey, the.
Brain wave. I'll accept echidna can see
different wavelengths than fire ants like on.
Ironically, I will accept that. They are far if it was like
Sonic, OK, that's a stretch, butif it's an Ant, I can there's
enough difference there. Sure.
(56:27):
Or like, hey, dad is like hey, Iswitched the the brain wave
frequencies. And honestly, that's probably
what it is like. Yours is closer to the truth, I
think. All of this assuming that it
isn't Duckles genuinely having ahallucination.
I mean, I don't think it is because.
The Oasis is there, I agree. I agree that would be such
terrible writing if you had a hallucination.
A real 1 followed by a real Oasis that was manipulated with
(56:54):
time and space or like materialized.
I should say it would be a really bad writing.
That'd be a real like, what the fuck are you doing?
Hey man, that's kind of not above this comic, I think.
This is writing. I've seen this before because
I've, I've done it myself, right?
Just in general, not even like fiction writing or anything, but
just when you're writing, you need to communicate.
(57:17):
You need to make sure the audience understands what you're
trying to do. If you are an advanced writer, a
really, really good writer, or just a writer who's like balls
to the wall, I don't care. Get on my level, then.
OK, you can do your own thing. But for a comic, I think you
need to have a level of do thesechildren understand what I'm
(57:40):
trying to say? And I think that's a good point
because as an adult, I don't know what he's.
Tried to say like challenge the audience, sure that's good.
I appreciate that. This isn't challenging, this is
just what the fuck bro? I'm with you and that's the
(58:00):
issue. Only 377 left to go.
I'm Nick. I stream at twitch.tv/mojo
Source. Did I do that right?
Is it 376? I'm you know what?
After I we're we're ahead. We.
Say this every fucking time I'm.Gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it for real. I'm gonna go count it out.
Are we gonna count Sonic X? Are we?
We're gonna do Sonic X. Well, this is the whole reason
that this became an issue was because I was like, we're doing
(58:22):
Sonic X and you're like, no, we're not so.
You want to do Sonic X? No, I do.
All right, let's do it. Count it up, baby.
My personal Blues official announcements.
We're also doing Sonic Adventure.
Let's Play. Yeah.
Which I gotta say it, it really does throw me off when he
doesn't have a Brooklyn accent. Yeah, it's it's same with me
(58:42):
too. It actually like, aggravates me.
You've made it so in my head, Knuckles is Brooklyn and.
It's better. It is better.
Better. Ken does.
Hey Ken Penders, you fucking cooked with that idea.
It would, dude. He did crush with that.
Yeah, you've read. Nickstreams@switch.tv/mojosaurus
(59:05):
and his personal blue sky is at Mojosaurus.
I'm Dominic. You can follow my jazz
adventures in Chicago at Blue Collar Jazz.
And my personal blue sky is at Dom Guan.
And stick with it, at least the Instagram, just because it is
shits pop it off in DC, which means shit may pop off elsewhere
(59:27):
in the country. And Chicago is preparing for it.
At least the the grassroots organizations are bracing for
impacts in the next few weeks and months.
You can follow us on socials at Gotta talk fast.
TikTok is Gotta Talk faster. We also have a video version of
the podcast where you can followalong with panels and our
handsome faces. Like, comment and subscribe.
(59:49):
You can write into the show at sonicgrams@gottatalkfast.com,
ask us questions, provide corrections and give us your
opinion on this week's issue. And remember, when life keeps
going fast, you got to talk fastand just get through it.
(01:00:13):
Gotta talk fast was written by Nick Folkerts and edited by
Dominic Guanzon. Intro and outro themes recorded
by Dominic Guanzon Gotta go fast.
Originally composed by Norman J Grossfeld, Joseph Garrity, and
Russell Velasquez. Gotta talk, gotta talk, gotta
talk, gotta talk, gotta talk.
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