August 24, 2023 • 26 mins
Ever wondered about the concept of grace and how it could alter your perception of your "enemies"? This transformative conversation, hosted by Carri Richard and Ebony Gilbert, audaciously tackles this complicated subject, opening up a new dimension on the power of tolerance, understanding, and love. We engage in a hard-hitting discussion, challenging the traditional views of grace and its applicability in our relationships, particularly those that are strained and difficult.
We navigate the rough terrains of challenging relationships, shedding light on the aspect of grace in these contexts and how it can potentially lead us back to love and understanding. Carri and Ebony share their insight on how prayer can act as a catalyst, empowering us to forgive and see the humanity in those we believe have wronged us. Our exploration doesn't end there; we also discuss self-kindness and the ability to recognize opportunities to extend grace. This is a chance to redefine your understanding of grace and integrate this profound concept more deeply into your life. Tune in for an enlightening journey that may just change your perspective on grace forever.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Grace Among Us, the podcast where we
unearth the many faces andplaces of grace and share
stories of the power of grace inour human lives.
Our desire is that this willinspire you to see grace in your
own life and share it withothers.
Carri Richard (00:24):
Hello, hello, my name is Carri Richard.
I'm a mindset coach and by dayI help people make space and
enjoy the ride.
And sometimes by day I also getto talk with my dear friend
Ebony Gilbert about my favoritetopic grace.
Ebony Gilbert (00:45):
Hey Carri.
Well everybody, I'm EbonyGilbert and we are here to talk
about grace once again.
Believe it or not, we've beendoing this for 20-something
times and that feels good.
Feel good to you?
(Carri- it does, it does).
It feels really good.
Who would have thunk it?
So here we are, and today I hadan idea about grace that goes
(01:12):
against what I've previouslythought, maybe not against what
I've known, but my real life,day-to-day thoughts.
So I'll throw it out here.
It's not necessarily a question, it's more of a thought, and we
can go up from there, if that'sokay.
Carri Richard (01:27):
Yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (01:29):
I've been dealing with some things that feel
pretty challenging to me and Ioften times pray for grace and
mercy and understanding and atthe end of that long line of
requests is essentially mesaying to God protect me and
punish them, which the other dayI heard something on the radio
(01:50):
and it kind of convicted me tostop light, like is that really
the way God works?
What if the person we'reconsidering our enemy is also in
the God camp and that person ispraying for their own
protection against me, becausethe enemy goes both ways right?
And understanding that God isbig enough to not shortchange my
(02:17):
blessing because he's blessingsomebody else?
Why do I get the mindset of"grace doesn't apply to my
enemies, or that my enemies aretruly outside of God's realm of
help or control, they don'tdeserve His blessing, and what
gives me that right to thinkthat anyway?
(02:38):
So I've been a little perplexedabout this concept for me, of
grace for my enemies, and doesthat even align with what I
should be praying for and how doI reconcile it?
Because the truth of the matteris I don't want the person I'm
considering person, thing,system that I'm considering my
(02:59):
enemy.
I don't want it to fall.
I'm not looking for bad thingsto happen to it, I just want the
bad things to stop happening tome.
So I get a little.
I get a little fuzzy there.
So I figure what better placethan this to talk about it and
bring it to my good friend Carri, because we do not shy away
(03:20):
from tough issues.
And this feels tough to me.
This feels really tough to me.
I can tell you all the thingsI'm supposed to say.
I can tell you all the thingsthat I've been taught and I've
learned in Sunday school.
But when it boils down to, youfeel like you're being wronged
and it's a matter of black andwhite.
I'm not sure I know how to prayin this situation that shows
(03:42):
grace to the person or system orthing that's imposing that
wrongdoing.
And I" stopped there.
Carri Richard (03:49):
That is, that is, that is juicy.
I appreciate that.
Grace for our enemies.
So I heard you say, praying forprotection and then "dot, dot,
dot and punishment for the otherside, right?
So, yeah, exactly, cause I'mpaying right now.
(04:11):
I don't like it.
So how about we turn the tide?
And you know, they pay.
Yeah, it's hard not to do that.
You know, it's like our culture.
I'm going to generalize, butour culture is somebody wins and
(04:33):
somebody loses, (Ebony - but heloses), and in God's .
kingdom .
(Ebony We We cannot win) winExactly Everybody can win.
Because, the God of myunderstanding is way more
creative than I could ever .
be And and it's really difficultwhen I'm hurting to have any
(05:02):
kind of love, tolerance,encouragement for the person,
situation thing that feels likeis causing the hurt.
And left my own devices,without grace, I'm going to
(05:31):
retaliate, I'm going to findsome punishment and "I'll get
you.
And I'm on that ladder.
I'm back on the ladder,somebody's up, somebody's down,
and I want to level the playingfield.
Ebony Gilbert (05:51):
And I'm assuming this position of superiority
with Christ because I deservefair and equal treatment and
this person deserves the wrathof not giving me that fair and
equal treatment.
As if my fair and equaltreatment is determined by this
individual or this system.
I think that, what I'm thinking, I'm so glad we're talking
(06:15):
about it.
The resentment starts tosurface once I convince myself
that this thing or person isresponsible for my mistreatment.
(Carri - Yeah) I'm giving themthe power, so they should be
punished.
Instead of viewing it as, "thisis all working for my good
anyway.
And truly, if you are the enemy, He's going to make you my
(06:39):
footstool.
And truly, if you aren't theenemy, we all can still win and
I can be an example and model ofwhat grace should look like in
this situation.
See, I have the answers, butwhen I'm in my feelings, I've
heard myself pray and itconcerns me, sometimes Like I'm
(07:00):
so glad that God knows my heart,because what comes out of my
mouth, sometimes it fails.
It fails to express where I'mreally coming from.
I'm trying to convey a sense ofhurt and wrongdoing and help me
and what comes out is, "getthem, get them, get them.
Mess with their finances.
(07:22):
Mess with their finances.
That's not the intent.
The intent is "stop the hurt.
Carri Richard (07:31):
Yeah, yeah .
And In doing that, in decidingwhere the hurt is coming from,
I'm essentially telling God whatto do or trying to.
"I'm hurting and I know how youcan fix it, so let me tell you
(07:58):
how you can fix it.
"It's about this and it's aboutthis and it's about this".
It's not about me, right?
I have some dear friends thatuse this really quick prayer and
I can tell how open I am tograce by how I feel about this
(08:22):
prayer.
And it is - four words.
Bless them, change me.
(Ebony - Oh no, I don't knowhow I feel about that.
) Exactly.
See, it's like a thermometer.
It's really great.
If you don't feel good aboutthat, it's possible that God
(08:51):
doesn't have free reign in thesituation for you.
Ebony Gilbert (08:56):
Bless them, Change me.
(Carri - Mm-hmm).
I can wrap my head around that,it'll still take some practice.
Yeah, yeah, I was watching,this all connects and some kind
of a golden.
I was watching this documentary, um, about NASA and they were
(09:18):
highlighting this new telescope,that's in space right now.
You know, years away that we'restill getting images from and I
can't get a phone signal.
You know, ten miles from myhouse, but you know we're
getting these images of galaxiesand and things in the universe
that we have never seen before,we never knew existed, and and
(09:42):
it's fascinating to see theseimages.
Oh, my god, it is.
It is absolutely incredible andThough, and it's pitch black,
so the way they overlay colorwith heat and temperature to
generate these images.
Like the eye of the computercan't even perceive what the
telescope is sending.
It has to be created, see, tovisualize it.
(10:02):
Then we see it and we don'teven know what we're seeing
because nothing we've seenbefore.
And I started thinking aboutoutside of just the sheer
magnitude, of how incredible itis, and maybe I'm just a geek
and dorking out here, butmind-blowing, almost like, bring
tears to your eyes because it'sso big.
But what I'm thinking about it,I'm thinking there's a God who
(10:25):
made this and the vastness ofhis thought and the things we
think we see.
It's like looking at a wall ona gallery right and you see the
picture, the picture, thepicture, the picture.
You think you're looking atpictures, and Every all the
detail of life is in between thepictures and your eye can't see
(10:48):
it because it doesn't even havethe software to compute and
download what's there in frontof us.
Yeah you know it's like puttinga certain thing in front of a
child, saying, pick up the cup.
If the child doesn't know whatthe cup is, he won't pickup the
cup, because it hasn'tdownloaded to their mind what a
cup is.
There are so many things inlife that have not been
(11:10):
downloaded into my perceptiveVisualization or understanding.
Does that make sense?
Carri Richard (11:16):
Oh my gosh, it makes so much sense.
I t makes absolute sense.
It's almost like it at the sametime.
Another idea is like if I takethis, I have this photo of my
mom right On my desk.
So if I take this photo and Ishove it up against my face,
(Ebony you don't know what itis), I don't know, I can't
discern what it is, I don't see.
(11:38):
I see a couple colors and myeyes go.
, they get all crazy.
And it's only when I can stepback from it when I'm hurting.
Whatever's hurting, whatever Iperceive that's hurting me, is
shoved up against my face and I'm pretty blind to it and I'm
(12:01):
pretty prickly and so (Ebony -if you walk in a room for a
surprise party, you have on ablindfold.
)
Ebony Gilbert (12:09):
You're still in the room with the party, right?
You just can't see it.
Mm-hmm, and that resentment Ihave, that prayer for punishment
for people that I don't evenfreaking know that well.
That's a blindfold, and it'skeeping me from seeing the work
of God, the brilliance of God,the magnitude of God, the
omniscience and omnipresence,and is keeping me from the grace
(12:30):
Because I'm allowing thispicture to be so close to me,
mm-hmm, and even if it wasn'tfocused, there is still so much
that I will never see orunderstand.
Carri Richard (12:44):
You've nailed it and it's Not only is your own
view, it's almost like you'rebeing taken hostage by it.
(Ebony - There's no freedom init).
No, there isn't, and there's.
I'm going to give you anexample, because it keeps coming
(13:05):
up and you tell me if this isalong the lines of what we're
talking about?
So my son is 17.
His father died last year,unfortunately, and we have not
been.
We were only together until myson, our son, was about nine
(13:28):
months old.
So it's been a while.
Right, it was, - neither one ofus were healthy.
I own that.
Neither one of us were healthy.
And the separation, the process.
There was contention.
We were both like I'll speak, Ican all speak for myself
(13:51):
because I'm only myself.
I had a picture pasted to myface for a long time.
It also was a catalyst to getcloser to God, which I'm very
grateful for and extremely hurt.
The hurt continued because onethrew it, the other threw it.
(14:14):
Right?
I was asked, I was actuallyasked to pray for him.
I was like, "what this was, youknow, are you kidding me?
Like, do you have any idea?
!" All these things?
And I did it.
I got on my knees with clenchedteeth and was like, "God bless
(14:38):
this and insert some not verynice words.
That's how it began, and I wasasked to do it for 30 days and
it began to shift.
Even with my unwilling, mymustard seed of willingness, it
(15:01):
began to shift.
Now I'd like to say it was allunicorns and rainbows.
There's really good ending tothe story that we all got
together and everybody waskumbaya.
It was not, it was not, it wasum, it was so far from the story
that I want to tell of how itended up.
And in this process, - somebodysaid to me "your son is half
(15:30):
you and half his father, and soremember that when you want to
speak ill of his father" and I,by God's grace, (I thank him all
the time).
I heard that statement, in mychaos, in my pissed off-ed-ness,
in my hurt.
And so I did not dump thesituation, the stuff on this
(16:03):
child, and that is one of thegreatest gifts I've received to
this day.
So he did not, uh, he did notsee his son since he was four.
(16:23):
It's been a long time, but theydid talk on the phone.
So he died.
And, because of God's grace, Icould've called him my mortal
enemy, I could launch, I couldgive you a whole stack of
(16:46):
evidence of why he was an enemy,and none of that mattered.
We celebrated his life and itwas the grace that allowed that
to happen and to celebrate thisperson for who he was and all he
(17:08):
was, with other people who werecelebrating him.
And you talked about thoseblinders, and it's, it's a gift,
because I had a lot of love forthis person.
I had known him since I wasvery young and to be able to
(17:32):
return to that love and to letthe rest of the stuff go, that
is only by grace.
So I don't know if that'sdirectly connected, but it just
(17:53):
kept happening and it actually.
It actually began by being toldthis is what you're going to do
.
.
Ebony Gilbert (18:04):
Pray for your enemies.
Yeah, which is biblical right?
You know that we're told topray for enemies.
I don't think I had an issuewith praying .
It was the way I was praying.
Carri Richard (18:16):
Yeah, I mean, It's been suggested pray for the
person that they receiveeverything you want in life.
It's a reflection on thatlimiting idea that I have that
if I get, you're not going to,or if they get, I'm not going to
(18:40):
.
Ebony Gilbert (18:41):
It keeps me from.
Carri Richard (18:43):
Absolutely.
Ebony Gilbert (18:46):
And we all can win.
Carri Richard (18:49):
All the time.
Ebony Gilbert (18:50):
All the time, or it can be an important planet.
There might be 50 of us.
Carri Richard (18:56):
There might be 500,000 others.
I've seen some.
I have been.
There might be.
gazillion more, you know.
Yeah, yeah, that's helpful.
Thank you for sharing, andthank you for two things that
resonated with me.
Number one, it wasn't allunicorns and rainbows.
And number two, there wassufficient evidence to side with
(19:21):
you.
If this had been a court of law, you would have won, because I
need that validation.
I actually I did.
Yeah, that's what the courtsaid.
Ebony Gilbert (19:33):
I did not know that - there you go.
Like I need someone to say "no,you're right, they're wrong",
with that?
So what?
Carri Richard (19:45):
Exactly, there's two questions, two questions.
That is the powerful question,so what?
And the other question is, atwhat cost?
What cost?
At what cost do I need to bevalidated or need to be right?
Ebony Gilbert (20:03):
Is this worth the price of my validation?
Like I don't know that it is.
And do I want that type of"report to?
So karma?
Like you know, it comesfull-circle.
So I appreciate just theopenness of the discussion.
I mean, obviously there's alittle vulnerability, a lot of
vulnerability on the table withboth of us here, but.
It's uncomfortable when youhave the mounting evidence to
(20:26):
say no, this isn't right and youdon't see the form of justice
that you want to see.
Carri Richard (20:35):
Absolutely.
And when I don't invite gracein, not only do I retaliate, but
sometimes I try to get a campto come around me.
(Ebony - Yeah, I wantsupporters), and then it becomes
a war.
Ebony Gilbert (20:54):
Because I've got to build my army against you.
Yeah, and it's the enemy, youknow, and it's challenging me.
This is present day, I'm nottalking about past tense.
It's present day challenging meto dig deeper and to really
view people through God's eyesas much as I can, based on what
I can see, which is very limited.
It's forcing me to look inbetween pictures.
Carri Richard (21:17):
Yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (21:17):
It's forcing me to really, really rebuke myself,
to check my own thoughts and toreally help my unbelief,
because, essentially what I'msaying, I know I should do this,
I'm going to do this.
I'm saying, "I don't believethat the right way is going to
work.
Yeah, so help my unbelief, mydoubts, my dubious nature, for
(21:46):
all things to be not whatthey're supposed to be, you know
.
So it's a multi folded prayer.
Bless them, change me, help myunbelief, give me grace so I can
be a better person.
Give me the lens and the glasses to see in between the lines
and between the pictures.
Humble me, which means I'mgoing to have some hurt because
(22:06):
the good shit doesn't humble me.
Let's be real, that's not thestuff that gets me to the ground
Okay.
Carri Richard (22:15):
So when you get the playbook on how to get
humble without pain, I meanbillionaire status, yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (22:28):
It didn't work that way for me Carri.
Carri Richard (22:32):
I know, keep searching for it, but yeah, up
until now I hadn't found it.
Ebony Gilbert (22:37):
No, so you know, I'm praying feverishly, without
ceasing for these things to fallinto play.
I forgot to deal with my, myflesh, because you know and I'm
going to say this now I mean itwill just kind of parallel with
the example when you were toldhey, you know there's your enemy
(23:00):
, was your son's father.
This person said you know, he'shalf of them and you.
There's some things in me thatare reflective of the enemies
behavior and I'd be silly tothink that's not the case.
I've been in an environment inthis world where there are more
inputs than just good, sothere's going to be some stuff
that comes out sometimes that'snot all good.
(23:21):
So I want to, I want to see it,I want to know it.
It's like an address it, andthese situations that are
challenging oftentimes bringthis stuff to the surface.
So now I'm mad at the enemy andI'm mad at me.
Carri Richard (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's that curiosity of, "whatare you showing me.
Ebony Gilbert (23:43):
What am I showing me and what am I showing the
world throughout the situation?
Well, I'd be proud of thisbehavior that I'm displaying as
a reaction or a response Like,if I had to look back at this
script, this movie script, 10years from now.
Am I going to feel good aboutthe way I showed up to the set
today?
I don't know.
Carri Richard (24:05):
I love, I love, I love how you talked about the
reaction versus the response.
Like, when I think of reaction,it's like like, like I'm being
stung, and so if I'm being stungby something, I am going to
have a reaction.
And that response is that pause, like to take a pause and
(24:26):
invite God in.
And somebody talked about, likeit's personal risk.
I think we're also today.
We're talking about personalresponsibility.
It's like owning owning ourbehavior, our thoughts, our
attitudes, our, you know, howfar we are from the canvas, or
or are we looking at the spacein between?
(24:47):
And if you break downresponsibility, it's 'response -
ability', like do you have theability to respond?
That's good.
Ebony Gilbert (25:02):
Yeah.
I like that I like, that.
This is good, this is good.
So, father, give us grace, yes,give us grace for enemies.
Give us grace for our own enemy.
Carri Richard (25:19):
Yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (25:20):
Show us mercy, because that thing that can be
defined as my external enemy, myperception of and I'm getting
them all the way now my ownenemy.
Carri Richard (25:32):
So thank you Always.
Thank you so much.
Ebony Gilbert (25:40):
I think we did it .
I think we did it.
I feel like there's more, butwe're a better spot at the end
of this than where it startedwith the confusing questions.
I'm pretty sure you can tell.
Carri Richard (25:53):
Absolutely so for everybody out there, if you
have a thought, an idea aboutgrace for your enemies, a prayer
that you use, anything we wouldlove to hear.
Ebony Gilbert (26:10):
So anything else?
Carri Richard (26:13):
Yes, until then Very soon.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Thank you so much for joining us.
If you enjoyed this episode,please let us know.
We'd love to hear from you andshare it with a friend.
Also, please be sure tosubscribe so you're notified
when a new episode is posted.
We hope you're leaving withanother pointer to grace, a new
perspective that will light itup in your own life.
Until next time, be well, bebold, be kind to yourself and be
(26:43):
on the lookout.
Welcome to Grace Among Us, the podcast where we
unearth the many faces andplaces of grace and share
stories of the power of grace inour human lives.
Our desire is that this willinspire you to see grace in your
own life and share it withothers.
Carri Richard (00:24):
Hello, hello, my name is Carri Richard.
I'm a mindset coach and by dayI help people make space and
enjoy the ride.
And sometimes by day I also getto talk with my dear friend
Ebony Gilbert about my favoritetopic grace.
Ebony Gilbert (00:45):
Hey Carri.
Well everybody, I'm EbonyGilbert and we are here to talk
about grace once again.
Believe it or not, we've beendoing this for 20-something
times and that feels good.
Feel good to you?
(Carri- it does, it does).
It feels really good.
Who would have thunk it?
So here we are, and today I hadan idea about grace that goes
(01:12):
against what I've previouslythought, maybe not against what
I've known, but my real life,day-to-day thoughts.
So I'll throw it out here.
It's not necessarily a question, it's more of a thought, and we
can go up from there, if that'sokay.
Carri Richard (01:27):
Yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (01:29):
I've been dealing with some things that feel
pretty challenging to me and Ioften times pray for grace and
mercy and understanding and atthe end of that long line of
requests is essentially mesaying to God protect me and
punish them, which the other dayI heard something on the radio
(01:50):
and it kind of convicted me tostop light, like is that really
the way God works?
What if the person we'reconsidering our enemy is also in
the God camp and that person ispraying for their own
protection against me, becausethe enemy goes both ways right?
And understanding that God isbig enough to not shortchange my
(02:17):
blessing because he's blessingsomebody else?
Why do I get the mindset of"grace doesn't apply to my
enemies, or that my enemies aretruly outside of God's realm of
help or control, they don'tdeserve His blessing, and what
gives me that right to thinkthat anyway?
(02:38):
So I've been a little perplexedabout this concept for me, of
grace for my enemies, and doesthat even align with what I
should be praying for and how doI reconcile it?
Because the truth of the matteris I don't want the person I'm
considering person, thing,system that I'm considering my
(02:59):
enemy.
I don't want it to fall.
I'm not looking for bad thingsto happen to it, I just want the
bad things to stop happening tome.
So I get a little.
I get a little fuzzy there.
So I figure what better placethan this to talk about it and
bring it to my good friend Carri, because we do not shy away
(03:20):
from tough issues.
And this feels tough to me.
This feels really tough to me.
I can tell you all the thingsI'm supposed to say.
I can tell you all the thingsthat I've been taught and I've
learned in Sunday school.
But when it boils down to, youfeel like you're being wronged
and it's a matter of black andwhite.
I'm not sure I know how to prayin this situation that shows
(03:42):
grace to the person or system orthing that's imposing that
wrongdoing.
And I" stopped there.
Carri Richard (03:49):
That is, that is, that is juicy.
I appreciate that.
Grace for our enemies.
So I heard you say, praying forprotection and then "dot, dot,
dot and punishment for the otherside, right?
So, yeah, exactly, cause I'mpaying right now.
(04:11):
I don't like it.
So how about we turn the tide?
And you know, they pay.
Yeah, it's hard not to do that.
You know, it's like our culture.
I'm going to generalize, butour culture is somebody wins and
(04:33):
somebody loses, (Ebony - but heloses), and in God's .
kingdom .
(Ebony We We cannot win) winExactly Everybody can win.
Because, the God of myunderstanding is way more
creative than I could ever .
be And and it's really difficultwhen I'm hurting to have any
(05:02):
kind of love, tolerance,encouragement for the person,
situation thing that feels likeis causing the hurt.
And left my own devices,without grace, I'm going to
(05:31):
retaliate, I'm going to findsome punishment and "I'll get
you.
And I'm on that ladder.
I'm back on the ladder,somebody's up, somebody's down,
and I want to level the playingfield.
Ebony Gilbert (05:51):
And I'm assuming this position of superiority
with Christ because I deservefair and equal treatment and
this person deserves the wrathof not giving me that fair and
equal treatment.
As if my fair and equaltreatment is determined by this
individual or this system.
I think that, what I'm thinking, I'm so glad we're talking
(06:15):
about it.
The resentment starts tosurface once I convince myself
that this thing or person isresponsible for my mistreatment.
(Carri - Yeah) I'm giving themthe power, so they should be
punished.
Instead of viewing it as, "thisis all working for my good
anyway.
And truly, if you are the enemy, He's going to make you my
(06:39):
footstool.
And truly, if you aren't theenemy, we all can still win and
I can be an example and model ofwhat grace should look like in
this situation.
See, I have the answers, butwhen I'm in my feelings, I've
heard myself pray and itconcerns me, sometimes Like I'm
(07:00):
so glad that God knows my heart,because what comes out of my
mouth, sometimes it fails.
It fails to express where I'mreally coming from.
I'm trying to convey a sense ofhurt and wrongdoing and help me
and what comes out is, "getthem, get them, get them.
Mess with their finances.
(07:22):
Mess with their finances.
That's not the intent.
The intent is "stop the hurt.
Carri Richard (07:31):
Yeah, yeah .
And In doing that, in decidingwhere the hurt is coming from,
I'm essentially telling God whatto do or trying to.
"I'm hurting and I know how youcan fix it, so let me tell you
(07:58):
how you can fix it.
"It's about this and it's aboutthis and it's about this".
It's not about me, right?
I have some dear friends thatuse this really quick prayer and
I can tell how open I am tograce by how I feel about this
(08:22):
prayer.
And it is - four words.
Bless them, change me.
(Ebony - Oh no, I don't knowhow I feel about that.
) Exactly.
See, it's like a thermometer.
It's really great.
If you don't feel good aboutthat, it's possible that God
(08:51):
doesn't have free reign in thesituation for you.
Ebony Gilbert (08:56):
Bless them, Change me.
(Carri - Mm-hmm).
I can wrap my head around that,it'll still take some practice.
Yeah, yeah, I was watching,this all connects and some kind
of a golden.
I was watching this documentary, um, about NASA and they were
(09:18):
highlighting this new telescope,that's in space right now.
You know, years away that we'restill getting images from and I
can't get a phone signal.
You know, ten miles from myhouse, but you know we're
getting these images of galaxiesand and things in the universe
that we have never seen before,we never knew existed, and and
(09:42):
it's fascinating to see theseimages.
Oh, my god, it is.
It is absolutely incredible andThough, and it's pitch black,
so the way they overlay colorwith heat and temperature to
generate these images.
Like the eye of the computercan't even perceive what the
telescope is sending.
It has to be created, see, tovisualize it.
(10:02):
Then we see it and we don'teven know what we're seeing
because nothing we've seenbefore.
And I started thinking aboutoutside of just the sheer
magnitude, of how incredible itis, and maybe I'm just a geek
and dorking out here, butmind-blowing, almost like, bring
tears to your eyes because it'sso big.
But what I'm thinking about it,I'm thinking there's a God who
(10:25):
made this and the vastness ofhis thought and the things we
think we see.
It's like looking at a wall ona gallery right and you see the
picture, the picture, thepicture, the picture.
You think you're looking atpictures, and Every all the
detail of life is in between thepictures and your eye can't see
(10:48):
it because it doesn't even havethe software to compute and
download what's there in frontof us.
Yeah you know it's like puttinga certain thing in front of a
child, saying, pick up the cup.
If the child doesn't know whatthe cup is, he won't pickup the
cup, because it hasn'tdownloaded to their mind what a
cup is.
There are so many things inlife that have not been
(11:10):
downloaded into my perceptiveVisualization or understanding.
Does that make sense?
Carri Richard (11:16):
Oh my gosh, it makes so much sense.
I t makes absolute sense.
It's almost like it at the sametime.
Another idea is like if I takethis, I have this photo of my
mom right On my desk.
So if I take this photo and Ishove it up against my face,
(Ebony you don't know what itis), I don't know, I can't
discern what it is, I don't see.
(11:38):
I see a couple colors and myeyes go.
, they get all crazy.
And it's only when I can stepback from it when I'm hurting.
Whatever's hurting, whatever Iperceive that's hurting me, is
shoved up against my face and I'm pretty blind to it and I'm
(12:01):
pretty prickly and so (Ebony -if you walk in a room for a
surprise party, you have on ablindfold.
)
Ebony Gilbert (12:09):
You're still in the room with the party, right?
You just can't see it.
Mm-hmm, and that resentment Ihave, that prayer for punishment
for people that I don't evenfreaking know that well.
That's a blindfold, and it'skeeping me from seeing the work
of God, the brilliance of God,the magnitude of God, the
omniscience and omnipresence,and is keeping me from the grace
(12:30):
Because I'm allowing thispicture to be so close to me,
mm-hmm, and even if it wasn'tfocused, there is still so much
that I will never see orunderstand.
Carri Richard (12:44):
You've nailed it and it's Not only is your own
view, it's almost like you'rebeing taken hostage by it.
(Ebony - There's no freedom init).
No, there isn't, and there's.
I'm going to give you anexample, because it keeps coming
(13:05):
up and you tell me if this isalong the lines of what we're
talking about?
So my son is 17.
His father died last year,unfortunately, and we have not
been.
We were only together until myson, our son, was about nine
(13:28):
months old.
So it's been a while.
Right, it was, - neither one ofus were healthy.
I own that.
Neither one of us were healthy.
And the separation, the process.
There was contention.
We were both like I'll speak, Ican all speak for myself
(13:51):
because I'm only myself.
I had a picture pasted to myface for a long time.
It also was a catalyst to getcloser to God, which I'm very
grateful for and extremely hurt.
The hurt continued because onethrew it, the other threw it.
(14:14):
Right?
I was asked, I was actuallyasked to pray for him.
I was like, "what this was, youknow, are you kidding me?
Like, do you have any idea?
!" All these things?
And I did it.
I got on my knees with clenchedteeth and was like, "God bless
(14:38):
this and insert some not verynice words.
That's how it began, and I wasasked to do it for 30 days and
it began to shift.
Even with my unwilling, mymustard seed of willingness, it
(15:01):
began to shift.
Now I'd like to say it was allunicorns and rainbows.
There's really good ending tothe story that we all got
together and everybody waskumbaya.
It was not, it was not, it wasum, it was so far from the story
that I want to tell of how itended up.
And in this process, - somebodysaid to me "your son is half
(15:30):
you and half his father, and soremember that when you want to
speak ill of his father" and I,by God's grace, (I thank him all
the time).
I heard that statement, in mychaos, in my pissed off-ed-ness,
in my hurt.
And so I did not dump thesituation, the stuff on this
(16:03):
child, and that is one of thegreatest gifts I've received to
this day.
So he did not, uh, he did notsee his son since he was four.
(16:23):
It's been a long time, but theydid talk on the phone.
So he died.
And, because of God's grace, Icould've called him my mortal
enemy, I could launch, I couldgive you a whole stack of
(16:46):
evidence of why he was an enemy,and none of that mattered.
We celebrated his life and itwas the grace that allowed that
to happen and to celebrate thisperson for who he was and all he
(17:08):
was, with other people who werecelebrating him.
And you talked about thoseblinders, and it's, it's a gift,
because I had a lot of love forthis person.
I had known him since I wasvery young and to be able to
(17:32):
return to that love and to letthe rest of the stuff go, that
is only by grace.
So I don't know if that'sdirectly connected, but it just
(17:53):
kept happening and it actually.
It actually began by being toldthis is what you're going to do
.
.
Ebony Gilbert (18:04):
Pray for your enemies.
Yeah, which is biblical right?
You know that we're told topray for enemies.
I don't think I had an issuewith praying .
It was the way I was praying.
Carri Richard (18:16):
Yeah, I mean, It's been suggested pray for the
person that they receiveeverything you want in life.
It's a reflection on thatlimiting idea that I have that
if I get, you're not going to,or if they get, I'm not going to
(18:40):
.
Ebony Gilbert (18:41):
It keeps me from.
Carri Richard (18:43):
Absolutely.
Ebony Gilbert (18:46):
And we all can win.
Carri Richard (18:49):
All the time.
Ebony Gilbert (18:50):
All the time, or it can be an important planet.
There might be 50 of us.
Carri Richard (18:56):
There might be 500,000 others.
I've seen some.
I have been.
There might be.
gazillion more, you know.
Yeah, yeah, that's helpful.
Thank you for sharing, andthank you for two things that
resonated with me.
Number one, it wasn't allunicorns and rainbows.
And number two, there wassufficient evidence to side with
(19:21):
you.
If this had been a court of law, you would have won, because I
need that validation.
I actually I did.
Yeah, that's what the courtsaid.
Ebony Gilbert (19:33):
I did not know that - there you go.
Like I need someone to say "no,you're right, they're wrong",
with that?
So what?
Carri Richard (19:45):
Exactly, there's two questions, two questions.
That is the powerful question,so what?
And the other question is, atwhat cost?
What cost?
At what cost do I need to bevalidated or need to be right?
Ebony Gilbert (20:03):
Is this worth the price of my validation?
Like I don't know that it is.
And do I want that type of"report to?
So karma?
Like you know, it comesfull-circle.
So I appreciate just theopenness of the discussion.
I mean, obviously there's alittle vulnerability, a lot of
vulnerability on the table withboth of us here, but.
It's uncomfortable when youhave the mounting evidence to
(20:26):
say no, this isn't right and youdon't see the form of justice
that you want to see.
Carri Richard (20:35):
Absolutely.
And when I don't invite gracein, not only do I retaliate, but
sometimes I try to get a campto come around me.
(Ebony - Yeah, I wantsupporters), and then it becomes
a war.
Ebony Gilbert (20:54):
Because I've got to build my army against you.
Yeah, and it's the enemy, youknow, and it's challenging me.
This is present day, I'm nottalking about past tense.
It's present day challenging meto dig deeper and to really
view people through God's eyesas much as I can, based on what
I can see, which is very limited.
It's forcing me to look inbetween pictures.
Carri Richard (21:17):
Yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (21:17):
It's forcing me to really, really rebuke myself,
to check my own thoughts and toreally help my unbelief,
because, essentially what I'msaying, I know I should do this,
I'm going to do this.
I'm saying, "I don't believethat the right way is going to
work.
Yeah, so help my unbelief, mydoubts, my dubious nature, for
(21:46):
all things to be not whatthey're supposed to be, you know
.
So it's a multi folded prayer.
Bless them, change me, help myunbelief, give me grace so I can
be a better person.
Give me the lens and the glasses to see in between the lines
and between the pictures.
Humble me, which means I'mgoing to have some hurt because
(22:06):
the good shit doesn't humble me.
Let's be real, that's not thestuff that gets me to the ground
Okay.
Carri Richard (22:15):
So when you get the playbook on how to get
humble without pain, I meanbillionaire status, yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (22:28):
It didn't work that way for me Carri.
Carri Richard (22:32):
I know, keep searching for it, but yeah, up
until now I hadn't found it.
Ebony Gilbert (22:37):
No, so you know, I'm praying feverishly, without
ceasing for these things to fallinto play.
I forgot to deal with my, myflesh, because you know and I'm
going to say this now I mean itwill just kind of parallel with
the example when you were toldhey, you know there's your enemy
(23:00):
, was your son's father.
This person said you know, he'shalf of them and you.
There's some things in me thatare reflective of the enemies
behavior and I'd be silly tothink that's not the case.
I've been in an environment inthis world where there are more
inputs than just good, sothere's going to be some stuff
that comes out sometimes that'snot all good.
(23:21):
So I want to, I want to see it,I want to know it.
It's like an address it, andthese situations that are
challenging oftentimes bringthis stuff to the surface.
So now I'm mad at the enemy andI'm mad at me.
Carri Richard (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's that curiosity of, "whatare you showing me.
Ebony Gilbert (23:43):
What am I showing me and what am I showing the
world throughout the situation?
Well, I'd be proud of thisbehavior that I'm displaying as
a reaction or a response Like,if I had to look back at this
script, this movie script, 10years from now.
Am I going to feel good aboutthe way I showed up to the set
today?
I don't know.
Carri Richard (24:05):
I love, I love, I love how you talked about the
reaction versus the response.
Like, when I think of reaction,it's like like, like I'm being
stung, and so if I'm being stungby something, I am going to
have a reaction.
And that response is that pause, like to take a pause and
(24:26):
invite God in.
And somebody talked about, likeit's personal risk.
I think we're also today.
We're talking about personalresponsibility.
It's like owning owning ourbehavior, our thoughts, our
attitudes, our, you know, howfar we are from the canvas, or
or are we looking at the spacein between?
(24:47):
And if you break downresponsibility, it's 'response -
ability', like do you have theability to respond?
That's good.
Ebony Gilbert (25:02):
Yeah.
I like that I like, that.
This is good, this is good.
So, father, give us grace, yes,give us grace for enemies.
Give us grace for our own enemy.
Carri Richard (25:19):
Yeah.
Ebony Gilbert (25:20):
Show us mercy, because that thing that can be
defined as my external enemy, myperception of and I'm getting
them all the way now my ownenemy.
Carri Richard (25:32):
So thank you Always.
Thank you so much.
Ebony Gilbert (25:40):
I think we did it .
I think we did it.
I feel like there's more, butwe're a better spot at the end
of this than where it startedwith the confusing questions.
I'm pretty sure you can tell.
Carri Richard (25:53):
Absolutely so for everybody out there, if you
have a thought, an idea aboutgrace for your enemies, a prayer
that you use, anything we wouldlove to hear.
Ebony Gilbert (26:10):
So anything else?
Carri Richard (26:13):
Yes, until then Very soon.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Thank you so much for joining us.
If you enjoyed this episode,please let us know.
We'd love to hear from you andshare it with a friend.
Also, please be sure tosubscribe so you're notified
when a new episode is posted.
We hope you're leaving withanother pointer to grace, a new
perspective that will light itup in your own life.
Until next time, be well, bebold, be kind to yourself and be
(26:43):
on the lookout.
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