May 30, 2024 • 41 mins
Leadership can often feel like a solitary climb up a treacherous mountain. When you’re expected to guide others through storms of adversity, who guides you? In my conversation with Dr. Latrice Williams, we tackle the behind-the-scenes struggles that leaders, particularly Christian women, endure. As we peel back the curtain, Dr. Williams shares strategies for leading with integrity and how to stand firm in the tides of trial.
We explore how setting boundaries is an act of self-care, and how faith can be our compass in the darkest nights. Dr. Williams and I share how our trust in God has carried us through, proving that the most profound leadership is born not in the absence of trials, but through them. Join us as we affirm that the path of faith-based leadership, while sometimes challenging, paves the way for the deepest growth and the most enduring strength.
Mentioned during the show:
Connect with Dr. LaTrice!
IG: drlatricewilliams
Facebook: thedestinydriver
Youtube: drlatricewilliams
Please subscribe to our mailing list to stay connected and get updates! Thanks for listening to the Graced to Lead Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Belinda Gaston (00:08):
Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast.
I'm Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen.
If you are a Christian womanwho leads at work, in your own
business or even in ministry,you are in the right place here.
You'll find practical adviceand encouragement as you lead
through real conversations thatwill challenge and inspire you.
So join me on this journey tobecoming better leaders God's
(00:31):
way.
Are you ready?
Let the journey begin.
Welcome to the Graced to Leadpodcast.
I'm Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen.
You are in for a treat thisweek.
We have an amazing guest withus today.
We are going to.
Let me just preface thisconversation and tell you what
(00:52):
we're talking about today.
We are talking about leadingthrough difficulties.
Listen, if you are a leader andyou have had some moments of
disappointment, discouragement,frustration, having to manage
things in your life while youlead, you want to keep listening
(01:13):
, because our guest today isnone other than the Dr Latrice
Williams.
Listen, dr Latrice Williams isa five-fold mentor.
She's known for her lifestyle ofleadership and as a servant
leader.
Her first and favorite ministryis a mom and Gigi, and she has
(01:35):
three beautiful adult childrenand one grand princess.
I love that.
She lives, loves and leadsthrough service, equipping,
training and building strong,effective leaders in ministry
and the marketplace.
Known as the Destiny Driver,she has earned her doctorate in
biblical studies and received anhonorary doctorate in theology.
(01:56):
She is the founder of DivineGrace Ministries International
and Divine Connections CovenantFellowship, serving senior
leaders, pastors and otherministry leaders across the
nation as their spiritualcovering.
She's the CEO and founder ofLatrice Williams Global
Ministries.
She's an entrepreneur also isthe owner and CEO of Living With
(02:20):
More Enterprises.
Her company houses afull-service publishing company,
a magazine and newsletterdesign and layout division and
high-level kingdom leadershipand development training
institute.
And not only that, y'all, butshe is also an Amazon
international best-sellingauthor.
She has penned eight bookseight, eight books and created
(02:45):
four journals.
Come on now.
And recently her new book, theGod Agenda, is making notable
impact on and offline amongreaders and other authors.
And finally, she is the hostand founder of the no More Drama
Experience.
And the no More DramaExperience has become a safe
place of healing, hope anddeliverance for men and women,
(03:08):
especially kingdom leaders.
She is the person of the hourtoday.
So if you wouldn't mind, givingus a virtual hand clap and
welcome to our guest todaywelcome to our guest today, dr
(03:31):
Latrice Williams.
Dr. Latrice Williams (03:31):
Welcome, thank you, thank you.
Thank you for having me today.
This is so exciting.
Belinda Gaston (03:33):
We are excited to have you and if you are
listening and I just read theaccolades and the
accomplishments of Dr Latriceyou know that she is the leader
to lead us in this discussion,because we are going to have a
transparent discussion here.
So again, I always say grabyour pens and your pencils and
your note-taking devices and getready to take some notes for
(03:56):
these wisdom nuggets.
But somebody did write in to melast week and told me to stop
saying that because they weredriving and they don't want to
be writing while they're driving.
So, wherever you're listeningfrom, pay attention is what I'll
say Pay attention.
So, dr Latrice, we're going tojump right into our conversation
here.
(04:16):
I think it's important for us totalk about this topic because I
am a leader and life happensand it is difficult to lead when
life happens, when things justkind of hit us and we don't kind
of expect it.
But most people think asleaders, that we have it all
(04:38):
together, right.
I mean, you're a leader ifyou're leading a group of people
or you're leading anorganization or a ministry or
wherever it is that you'releading.
You're leading a group ofpeople or you're leading an
organization or ministry orwherever it is that you're
leading.
You're there because you haveit all together, so why do you
think this conversation aboutleading through difficult times?
Why do you think thisconversation is important?
Dr. Latrice Williams (04:59):
Well, my first thought about the
necessity of this conversationis that it is what's not seen
that can be most impactful inthe conversation.
It's easy to see us when weshow up.
It's easy to see us when weexecute.
It's easy to see the thingsthat look good.
(05:20):
But the impact, and, I think,the necessary influence, happens
in the conversations where wetalk about what didn't go well,
what challenges we had, whatthings we had to grow through,
and because sometimes that getsoverlooked, because we see what
some may call or they feel isthe glamour of it oh, everything
(05:41):
went well, everything wasexecuted, everything was so
beautiful and it was laid out,or you know, whatever those
things may be, but we don't seewhat it took to get there, we
don't see what was lost to getthere.
We don't see, you know, justthe different things that
sometimes we don't share,because by the time we get to
appearing to have it alltogether, we're just like we
(06:01):
made it.
And so I think that theseconversations will be so helpful
to the leaders One for thosewho are perhaps too focused on
having it all together, or thosewho are anxious because they
feel like they don't have it alltogether.
So this conversation could bebeneficial on either side to
help them to understand that one.
We don't have to have it alltogether.
(06:22):
It doesn't matter how much wedo and how well we show up.
There's somewhere that we cangrow, there's some place that
we've had to experience and even, especially the difficult
places, we've learned how to, orwe've been told, never let them
see you sweat or never givethem the proverbial, them the
(06:43):
satisfaction.
But most leaders, in theory,yeah, we have it all together,
we have the ability to show upwell, we have the ability to
execute well.
But what about the times whenwe didn't and we just appeared
to?
What about the times when, yeah, we showed up, we preached, we
taught, we ministered, we laidhands, we prophesied, and then,
(07:05):
you know, as soon as it was over, it was like, oh my God, get me
out of here.
I just need a moment, I've gotto get away, and so that's that
side that we don't often share.
That, I believe, needs to betalked about.
It needs to be shared.
Now let me say this it needs tobe shared from the healed place
.
The way we share it, theperspective from which we share
(07:28):
it, also makes a difference.
We need to be able to share itfrom the place where we've
gained the wisdom, we've trulyhealed, we've grown from it.
And so when we talk about it,there's not those traces of
bitterness or those where we mayhear what is the word I want to
say those jabs.
You know, sometimes you hearpeople talk and they're talking
truthfully about what they'veexperienced, but there's always
(07:50):
that little underlying thing.
That's when we know we need topull back and we need to have a
difference type of conversation.
But I think these conversationsare definitely necessary to
help other leaders to heal, helpother leaders to know that
while we're showing up well,let's show up, just let us live
well as well as leading well.
Belinda Gaston (08:08):
You have said so much in your first statement.
I want to kind of go back here,because this appearance of
leaders having it all togetherand I think if you are leading
in a corporate space you seethis just as much as you do in
other spaces and I think thatwas the thing that most
surprised me when I got to aplace where I was considered to
(08:32):
be a leader officially was howmany of my colleagues were
trying to figure it out orhaving difficulty.
And so I think that point ofpeople appearing to have it
together when they seem likethey have it together, is really
important.
And then the other part that Iheard you say was the healed
(08:57):
place, and we're going to talk alittle bit more about that
later.
But I think it's important forpeople to recognize whether
they're healed or not, and wehad a guest on the show who
talked about matters of theheart, Dr.
Nedra Buckmire, and one of thethings she talked about is how
those unhealed places show upwhen we lead.
(09:17):
And so I love that theseconversations are happening
around the same time so that ourleaders can kind of build on
that.
But I think it would be helpfulif we could kind of share some
examples of leading fromdifficult places, and so I want
to ask you if you can share atime when you had to lead
(09:39):
through a difficult time.
Can you share with us a timethat you had to lead and maybe
how you navigated that space?
Dr. Latrice Williams (09:51):
I have quite a I won't say quite a few,
but I do have a few examples.
But one of the examples that Iwill share is it was the loss of
every member and every leaderof my satellite campuses, of my
church plane.
One of the leaders left a lot ofyou know lies, a lot of
division, you know those typesof things that happen from the
(10:13):
place of offense.
And it was a time that for me,I had to endure and face like
alienation and abandonment.
And it wasn't so much that Ihad never seen those things in
my life before, but it came frompeople that I served faithfully
, people that I stood with,people who I just didn't expect
(10:34):
it from, and I mean, that's justthe reality.
And a lot of times as leaders,you know we are so all in with
people that we don't necessarilyexpect that if something like
of that magnitude happens thatthey would abandon you.
And so I still had to leadthose who were, who were with me
with the main campus, so thosewho still decided that I'm not
(10:56):
going anywhere, I'm just notgoing to be vocal, I'm gonna
stay.
But you know, so it was kind oflike a tug of war to see people
agree with someone but say I'mgoing to stay with you.
So I had to learn how tonavigate a wound without
wounding others.
Ok, we need to pause for amoment, and I need you know,
(11:40):
defending myself or trying toprove myself right, it was going
to cause more division, itwould have caused more confusion
, and so my learning how tonavigate that meant I had to not
necessarily compartmentalize,but I had to have safe spaces.
I had to have safe people thatwere outside of those who I led,
so that I did not wound thembecause they were looking on,
(12:06):
they were hearing the lies, theywere seeing the posts, all of
the things.
They were getting the phonecall.
But then they were looking tome and some were looking okay,
let's see what the pastor isgoing to do.
And so God taught me how to justkeep doing what he had taught
me to do Just keep being who youhave been, even though others
have changed.
And that's very difficult whenyou've given your life as a
(12:28):
leader to lead people and thensee them change.
It's something that happens.
And learning how to navigatethe wound I had to heal, I had
to process, but then I had tomake sure that I was very
intentional about how I handledthose who were still with me so
that I did not wound them.
And sometimes it's hard to beintentional when you're wounded,
(12:50):
when you're hurting and you'relike all I really want to do is
lash out.
But what would that reallysolve?
What would that really build?
When you're called to be abuilder, how would that really
help?
And if there are other leaderswho are watching you, then how
is that really leading them?
So it was a very intentionaltime in my life.
(13:10):
I can share it from, like Isaid, the healed place, because
I've been able to help otherleaders now who have experienced
similar things and not be.
I don't have to share it fromthe place of this is what they
did, this is what they said.
Now I can say, yes, thishappened, yes, that happened,
but this is what God taught me,this is what I did, this is how
I handled it, so that theyunderstand that you don't have
(13:32):
to lash out, but you have to beintentional about how you handle
those who are still with youabout how you handle those who
are still with you, and so thankyou for sharing that Earth
because you're very vulnerable.
Belinda Gaston (13:43):
So I appreciate that, thank you for that and, I
think, for our listeners, thereare some nuggets here that I
don't want to skip over as wethink about leading in a
difficult situation.
So, in your situation, Dr.
Latrice, you were in asituation where the leaders that
you led, it sounds like, leftthe organization, and when they
(14:07):
left, they left with, in somecases, tarnishing your
reputation or attempting to, orsharing a narrative that wasn't
true, and you had to navigatethat space while still leading
other people, and so one of thethings I heard you talk about
that I want you to elaborate onis this idea of a safe space.
(14:29):
I think part of for leaders,part of what is necessary and
we've talked about this beforeon this show is having that
space where you can be youwithout being the leader you,
because being the leader, youcarries a certain level of
(14:49):
responsibility and expectation,and so let's talk about this
safe space.
So you said you had a safespace when you were going
through this period.
How did you create that safespace and how did you?
How did that work for you?
How did these safe, this safespace work for you?
Dr. Latrice Williams (15:22):
leaders and they were my safe space.
They were the people that Icould talk to and they so I have
this thing that I say we needpeople with trusted voices and
trusted ears.
So trusted voices are thepeople who can speak into our
lives and speak from anon-biased place.
They're going to tell me whenI'm wrong and when I'm right.
They're going to encourage andrebuke as needed.
But then their trusted ears,people who can hear you, and
(15:43):
they can hear you at your worstplace, your most vulnerable
place, your most traumatizedplace, and not judge.
They don't sit in a seat ofjudgment.
They don't now disrespect youor see you differently because
you're having a vulnerablemoment or if you're just having
a bad moment, because as leaders, we can just have a bad moment
(16:05):
and so people who can hear you,but you're safe enough to pour
out your heart in a way that youmay not do with other people.
And so, because I had to, Iknew I needed to contain what I
was feeling.
I needed to contain a lot ofthe turmoil that I was going
through.
I couldn't just contain it andhold it.
I had to contain it whennecessary and then release it in
(16:28):
that space that they gave me tojust talk freely about it, and
it wasn't about talking aboutpeople.
Now, this is what I love.
It wasn't about talking aboutthe people, the people who did
it.
I talked about what happened.
I talked about how it made mefeel.
I flushed out the things thatjust you know it's all about.
(16:49):
The people know this safe, safespace is for you, is to be
about you, and so it was a spaceabout me.
Okay, latrice, this is what ishappening.
How are you feeling?
What are you feeling like doing?
(17:11):
What is it that you want to say?
But you know you can't say that.
You know what is it that youneed to get out of your
literally out of your soul soyou can heal?
And so that was the space forme.
I had to make sure I talked topeople who would talk to Latrice
, not talk to Latrice about thepeople.
Talk to Latrice, about Latrice.
Talk to me about this placethat I'm in, what I'm
(17:32):
experiencing, and then how tohelp me get through it, versus
focusing me on, oh, they've donethis.
They said this because, once itwas done, and said it was done,
and said that part was over,the part that was continuous was
me having to process that, andso you need safe spaces.
As leaders, we need people whowill hear us without judgment,
(17:56):
but that will hear.
Hear us and still hear.
Holy Spirit for us, becausethey'll hear us without judgment
, but they can't hear us andthen just let us get away with
everything.
Okay, latrice, now I hear youand I have no judgment, but let
me tell you where you're wrong.
Let me tell you how you canprocess that differently.
And so those spaces helped methe most, and really it was just
(18:18):
being able to talk it out.
Sometimes my spiritual parentsdidn't say anything, they just
listened and then they wouldpray and that will be the end of
the conversation.
And sometimes, you know, Iwould get finished talking and I
would rant and I would rave andI would cry, and very few
people can say they've seen mecry, but they can, and they
would encourage me and theywould love on me and then they
(18:38):
would correct me and then wewere yeah, that was it.
So that safe space includes allof it.
Belinda Gaston (18:47):
I think that's really important.
I think in a time where peopleare so digitally connected but
not necessarily connected inreal life, so to speak, it is
challenging for leaders to findthat space, and so I think
that's a really good tip and Ithink it brings us to kind of.
My next question for you istips for people who are dealing
(19:12):
with difficult challenges,difficulties as they're leading,
and I'll give you some examples.
I know for me most recently andI talked about this in a
previous episode I did notrealize that I was grieving
while leading.
So my right hand, my assistantat work, passed away last year,
(19:36):
towards the end of last year,and I thought, okay, we had her
memorial service, I got a chanceto eulogize her and we kind of
moved on and I wasn't going intothe office much, I was working
virtually, but every time I wentinto the office I felt her
presence and I felt that griefover again.
(19:58):
I just didn't realize that'swhat I was feeling.
And so over the last I wouldsay I guess, six months, I
realized that I have beenoperating not quite as myself,
as a leader, because I wasgrieving, but I didn't realize
that what it was until someonerecently called it out, and so I
think that a lot of times, asleaders, we're dealing with
(20:22):
grief.
I have a coworker who's goingthrough a divorce right now.
It's a difficult thing.
We have on the job challengesor in our businesses.
Maybe we might not have theclients we want or we might have
difficulty with our business.
If we are ministry leaders, wemight be having challenges in
the congregation.
If we are ministry leaders, wemight be having challenges in
the congregation.
So you're dealing with allthese things, but there's an
(20:44):
expectation for you to lead, andI would love it if we could
talk about what are somepractical things that leaders
can do to navigate these spaces.
And it sounds like the firstthing is this safe space,
creating a safe space.
But what else would you say topeople?
Dr. Latrice Williams (21:02):
So, in addition to the safe space, you
also need to be kind to yourself, and what I mean by that is
take some time off.
If you need to, don't be afraidto step away Now.
For pastors, a lot of times wesay I can't step away, I don't
have the help.
If I don't do it, who's goingto do it?
(21:24):
One of the things the HolySpirit showed me was that, even
if you do it, if you're not wellwhen you do it, it's not
helping anybody.
So take the time away, be kindenough to yourself to embrace
the fact that I'm in a difficulttime.
I still have to lead, but Ineed to position myself to one
(21:44):
heel so I can lead well.
And the way I'm going to get tohealing is I have to
acknowledge that something hashappened.
I have to embrace the fact thatI'm human and I need time for
my wound to heal, just likeanybody else does.
Or I need time to processwhatever this difficult space is
(22:07):
, so that God can give me a newstrategy, or God can speak to me
and help me, give me a way tomove through it and still lead
well.
But a lot of times we just keepplowing ahead.
We just keep going because wehave to.
So be kind to yourself, giveyourself time, take a sabbatical
, sabbaticals.
God built this into his divineplan for us to rest.
(22:31):
Rest helps us to, it bringsclarity.
Rest helps us to be rejuvenated, not just physically, but
mentally, emotionally, and sotake that time that you need.
Just today, I had a verydifficult work day and I just
took two hours away and I justsat down.
(22:51):
I didn't talk to anybody, Ididn't try to do any other type
of work, I just did nothing formyself, and even though in the
doing nothing, I really wasdoing something for myself, and
so that's being kind to yourself, taking care of yourself helps
you to then take care of otherpeople.
(23:11):
And then one of the otherthings that I would say is know
when to say when, know yourlimits, know your boundaries and
then respect your boundaries.
When you respect yourboundaries, others will respect
your boundaries.
When you know when to say when,like today, I knew let me say
(23:33):
when, and so that was literallythe way I was able to make it to
this time for the podcast,because I knew when to say when.
I knew I had gone far enough ineverything I had done today.
And so I think that when welearn our boundaries and respect
our boundaries, then it puts usin a position for others to do
(23:53):
so as well.
Belinda Gaston (23:57):
Those are great tips Creating the safe space,
being kind to yourself andknowing when to say when setting
boundaries.
I think a lot of times, asleaders, the boundary piece is a
challenge.
Challenge because we haveyou're either a servant leader
(24:25):
we use that all the time.
You're either a servant leader,or you're an empathetic leader,
or you're a leading with theteam in mind.
It's all these things thatreally focus on as a leader,
particularly particularly forwomen, giving of themselves as a
part of leadership, and I'mfascinated by this, because I
(24:46):
don't really hear that narrativewith men.
To be honest, I don'tnecessarily hear male leaders
tell other male leaders you needto give of yourself.
That's just not the dialogue.
They do talk about servantleadership, but I think it's
something that's just kind ofmaybe I don't know why, but it
is something that is ingrainedas women who lead, and so I have
(25:12):
been guilty of this, of havingtrouble setting boundaries, and
I know colleagues that I have inthe workplace and people who I
serve with in ministry, inbusiness, there's similar things
, and so can you talk aboutsetting boundaries and how maybe
leaders can go about settingthese boundaries, particularly
(25:36):
in seasons of difficulty?
Dr. Latrice Williams (25:40):
in seasons of difficulty.
So in seasons of difficulty, weneed time that is set aside
just for ourselves, because youcannot consistently pour and
never receive a deposit or apour.
And so to set boundaries, I'lljust tell you one of the things
I did was I stopped taking phonecalls and text messages at all
(26:01):
times of the day and the night.
This is something that I knowas church leaders specifically.
We will just if they call,we're going to answer.
If they text, they must need us, let me respond.
I don't want to offend them, Idon't want to make them think
that they're being overlooked,and we do it from a good place.
But sometimes we do it to thedetriment of ourselves, and so
(26:24):
setting boundaries can besomething as simple as I don't
respond to text messages afternine o'clock.
I don't answer, you know, phonecalls after nine o'clock,
unless, of course, you know it'ssome type of emergency or you
know.
But those are things that youcan do for yourself, and what
happens is people will begin tolearn If I call her after nine,
she's probably not going toanswer, unless I text her and
(26:47):
say, hey, it's an emergency, Ihave to call you, this is what's
going on.
And so we set.
Just we can do small thingsthat make big impact as it
relates to boundaries.
The other thing about boundariesis that don't set a boundary
and then disrespect it.
No, don't set a boundary andthen disrespect it.
(27:08):
I can't say to my granddaughterI have a six-year-old
granddaughter and I can't say toher Aurora, don't jump on that
chair.
If you jump on that chair, thisis what's going to happen.
(27:28):
So I've set a boundary, I'veset an expectation, and then she
jumps on the chair and nothinghappens.
And so I can't set a boundaryand then disrespect.
Don't set boundaries becausesomebody has betrayed you or
because you're in a difficultseason.
Set the boundary from a healthyplace.
(27:49):
So sometimes, before you makethe boundary decision, make sure
you know the why and make sureyour why stems from I need to do
this to be better, not becauseI need to punish people or not
because this happened to me.
So, in order to keep this fromever happening again, this is
what I'm going to do.
Well, the truth is, we can dothat and it still may happen.
(28:12):
It may just happen from anotherperson or in another scenario.
So set that boundary with theright perspective scenario.
So set that boundary with theright perspective.
I think that sometimes weinitially set boundaries because
something has happened,somebody has done something, but
turn it inward and say why do Ineed these boundaries?
(28:33):
What's the purpose of it, howdo these boundaries help me and
how do they help me to helpothers?
So I hope those tips on settingboundaries help a little bit.
They do.
Belinda Gaston (28:45):
They do, and I was thinking about the realistic
boundaries and respecting theboundaries, particularly because
I have been known to setboundaries that are unrealistic
and that I don't honor, and thenI end up going into a cycle.
So I set the boundary, I don'tadhere to it or people I don't
hold people accountable for it,they go past the boundary I set,
(29:08):
I get frustrated and I set theboundary again.
I think it's an awful cycle,and so I think that's a reminder
.
It's so easy to do.
It's so easy to do, so I thinkthat's really good.
I do have another question andyou kind of alluded to this
throughout this conversationabout your faith.
(29:30):
This podcast is for women wholead, who are women of faith,
but they're in various levels oftheir faith walk and faith
experience, and so you've talkeda lot about the Holy Spirit.
You've talked about I think youkind of talked about prayer at
one point, but I would like foryou to share with people how
your faith has helped you leadin difficult times.
Dr. Latrice Williams (29:58):
So let's have an honest conversation
about that.
My faith in people and my faithin the loyalty of people was
shaken.
That's something we don't wantto always admit or acknowledge,
but in order for my faith to bestrengthened, I had to admit
that, I had to acknowledge itand even embrace it.
That, ok, my faith has kind ofbeen shaking.
(30:20):
Now my faith in God began togrow because God knew what I
felt like was the worstexperience that I could ever
have in all of my years ofministry, to become one of the
best seasons of my life, becausehe taught me more in the last
three years than probably in thelast 24 years.
He taught me things aboutmyself, he taught me things
(30:45):
about people, and so my faithstarted growing because I
started realizing that thiswasn't the worst season.
It was just the worst season Ihad so far.
This wasn't the worst season.
It was just one of the worstexperiences I've had so far.
And so my faith was challenged.
I did not think I could go on.
(31:06):
I many, many times justcontemplated well, let's just
close, let's just let it go.
You know, these things arebeing said, these things are
being done.
It will be easier.
Being said these things arebeing done, it will be easier.
But it was God who helped me inmy faith walk to say it would
be easier.
But would that really be afaith move?
(31:27):
It would be the easy move, itwould be the simplest thing to
do.
As a matter of fact, it'swhat's expected, it's what's
been said is going to happen toyou.
They are waiting for it to fallapart.
But would that really be afaith move?
Or would that just be me saying, okay, this is the easy way out
?
It's, you know, it's in pieces,let's let it stay.
(31:55):
So God began to grow my faithjust by rebuilding me first.
So my faith was not like oh,the Holy Spirit spoke to me and
said you know, increase yourfaith.
No, he increased my faith everysingle day.
He increased my faith.
The same way, my faith wasshaken by people and their
actions and their words.
He began to increase my faith,first in him, just through his
reminders, just through himshowing me that, hey, I'm still
(32:16):
using you, you're stillnecessary, I still have great
work for you to do.
And so my faith was in the factthat, after all of that, god
still sees me, god still speaksto me, god still uses me.
And so I was just so amazedwith God.
But then my faith started to bestrengthened even more because
God said I'm going to restoreand I'm going to give you more
(32:38):
and I'm going to bring you knowdifferent people into your life
who are on a, as you said, adifferent faith level, a
different level of maturity.
And so he started using peopleto help strengthen my faith
again.
The same way people shook it,he built it again by my prayer
time with him, times of fasting,those times when I said I would
(33:01):
just pull away and I would justbe in quiet.
It wasn't so much because I didwithdraw, but he never let me
isolate because he would sendsomebody in, and him sending
somebody in was the thing to say.
You cannot go to a dark place.
And so it helped my faith toknow that God was still with me
place.
(33:21):
And so it helped my faith toknow that God was still with me,
that he was healing me, and Istarted seeing where I, if I had
a time where God wanted me toshare.
I started hearing myself able totalk about certain things and
not feel that little thing thatyou feel from a wound.
And so my faith was builtthrough those multiple things
prayer, fasting and people.
People were a part of myhealing process, just like
people were a part of thewounding process.
(33:45):
It helps your faith walk in away that, unless you experience
that, you won't understand it.
But I can tell you God can doit and I am like a living,
breathing witness that my faithis probably on a different level
now than it's probably everbeen.
And so now I'm probablystronger in faith that I
(34:05):
wouldn't be as shaken by now.
It'll always hurt, you know, ifsomebody does something to you
we're human but I probablywouldn't be as hurt.
I probably would not be asshaken and feeling like, oh, I
can't go on, I can't do it.
So I'm built up more now and Ihave a greater capacity now in
my faith.
Belinda Gaston (34:24):
Thank you for sharing that.
I'm struck by the fact thatwhat happened as you were
leading in that situation withpeople, it kind of shook your
faith, that your faith decreaseda bit in those people, and then
how God built your faith andthen brought people in to help
(34:45):
in that building process, that'sthat's amazing.
Dr. Latrice Williams (34:50):
Let me say this to you also, Belinda I had
to allow the people in.
So in this rebuilding of myfaith because my faith in God
was never shaken, he just had torebuild my faith in other areas
.
But I had to allow the peoplein, and so one of the things
that God will continually say tome is accept the help, Don't
(35:12):
reject the help.
And he would say it to me indifferent times of my life or
different ways.
He would show me hey, I'msending the help.
And I didn't always understandwhat was the help for.
I would just hear him sayaccept the help.
And now, as I look back, thesewere his ways of rebuilding me
and these were his moments ofsaying hey, you know, I'm
(35:34):
building your faith back in thisarea and in that area and
increasing your capacity.
Belinda Gaston (35:43):
That's yes, accepting the help.
I think that's a good place tokind of stop here.
We've talked about yourexperience as a leader, facing
difficulty, and how you foundyour safe spaces as you were
going through, how you had toheal first in order to lead.
(36:05):
You gave us tips on how to walkthrough this process, and this
last tip about accepting thehelp is really something I think
leaders because as leaderswe're taught well, you're a
leader, so you do it alone, youdo it in isolation, and
leadership and isolation theydon't go hand in hand.
They don't have to.
So I'm glad that you sharedthat.
(36:26):
But before we kind of end, I dowant to know if you have any
final thoughts that you'd liketo share with our listeners, for
listeners who may be leading indifficult situations or
difficult times.
What are your any finalthoughts for them?
Dr. Latrice Williams (36:42):
No, I think I want to reiterate
something you said is that wehave been taught or we feel like
, as leaders, we have to do italone.
But you don't have to do italone.
You simply need the trustedvoices, the trusted ears who can
hear you, and you need the safespace and having those things.
That's the first step of notdoing it alone and then
(37:04):
accepting the help.
It's very easy to reject helpwhen you've been wounded or when
you're in a difficult seasonand you start feeling like, oh
well, I'll just do it myself.
If I want it done, right, I'llmake sure it's done.
But what happens when you can'tdo it?
And so I want leaders toconsider perhaps your difficult
season is and I need to allowthem to be who they are, to
(37:44):
whatever God has assigned to myhands.
And so I think that if we'llaccept the help, if we'll
embrace that, god knows what weneed, god knows who we need, he
knows when we need it and he'sable to send it at the right
time.
You know, don't count yourselfout because you're in a
difficult time, don't count yourvision out, because you're in a
(38:07):
difficult time, but just makesure that you have the things
that we've talked about in place, and if you don't have them,
then ask God to send them.
Ask God to send you a safeplace.
Send you leaders you can talkto, send you people who can
speak into your life and holdyou accountable, correct you,
love on you and help you tobuild so you can rebuild.
(38:28):
And so I believe that that'swhat I would leave with the
listeners is that you don't haveto do it alone, and in
retrospect I've learned that Ican't do it alone.
We were never meant to do italone.
There's not one person that Godhas ever sent into the earth
that was meant to do it alone.
Belinda Gaston (38:51):
I thank you for that.
That is a great place to end.
Thank you so much, Dr Latrice,for your time.
So much, Dr Latrice, for yourtime, for your transparency.
This, I think, will help peoplereally reflect on where they
are, if they're leading throughdifficulty and really getting
(39:12):
some things in place so they canlead well even through
difficult times.
So, thank you, Thank you, Thankyou Before we go.
I want to know.
I know that people may want toreach out to you, so I want you
to tell us first if there'sanything you're working on that
you'd like to share, and alsohow people can stay in touch
(39:33):
with you.
How can they reach you?
Dr. Latrice Williams (39:36):
Well, the best way to reach me and the
easiest way is to go directly tomy website, which is
wwwlatricewilliamscom, and allof my information about
everything that I do is prettymuch at that website.
What am I working on?
I have a new book that I'mworking on.
I haven't talked much about ityet, but it's actually a tool
(39:59):
for pastors and leaders to helpthem to teach about giving in
their ministries and the benefitof it and the necessity of it.
So I've just started working onit, but I believe it's going to
be an amazing tool for leaders,pastors and leaders, even
nonprofits and, of course, youknow I'm always working on no
More Drama because we'repreparing for the June event or
(40:21):
the June gathering.
So those are my probably my twothings that I would share that
I'm working on right now.
Belinda Gaston (40:27):
That's great.
I can't believe another book.
You already have eight.
This is the number nine.
Number nine we are, I'm excitedto see the finished product and
we'll put links up for folks tobe able to find you.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom.
We so appreciate you.
(40:48):
So thank you for being a guesttoday, Dr Latrice.
Thank you, Thank you for havingme.
Dr. Latrice Williams (40:53):
It has been such a pleasure and I am so
excited about what God is doingthrough this podcast.
I believe it's going to be ablessing to me.
Belinda Gaston (41:02):
Thank you and for our listeners.
Thank you so much for joiningus on the Graced to Lead podcast
.
We always appreciate youjoining us.
Remember to follow us, tosubscribe.
We do have our weekly giveaway,so subscribe, share the podcast
if there's someone you thinkthat could benefit from the
(41:24):
wisdom of leading throughdifficulties, and until we see
each other, we'll listen andhear each other again.
Remember that you are indeedgraced to lead.
Have a wonderful week.
Bye-bye.
Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast.
I'm Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen.
If you are a Christian womanwho leads at work, in your own
business or even in ministry,you are in the right place here.
You'll find practical adviceand encouragement as you lead
through real conversations thatwill challenge and inspire you.
So join me on this journey tobecoming better leaders God's
(00:31):
way.
Are you ready?
Let the journey begin.
Welcome to the Graced to Leadpodcast.
I'm Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen.
You are in for a treat thisweek.
We have an amazing guest withus today.
We are going to.
Let me just preface thisconversation and tell you what
(00:52):
we're talking about today.
We are talking about leadingthrough difficulties.
Listen, if you are a leader andyou have had some moments of
disappointment, discouragement,frustration, having to manage
things in your life while youlead, you want to keep listening
(01:13):
, because our guest today isnone other than the Dr Latrice
Williams.
Listen, dr Latrice Williams isa five-fold mentor.
She's known for her lifestyle ofleadership and as a servant
leader.
Her first and favorite ministryis a mom and Gigi, and she has
(01:35):
three beautiful adult childrenand one grand princess.
I love that.
She lives, loves and leadsthrough service, equipping,
training and building strong,effective leaders in ministry
and the marketplace.
Known as the Destiny Driver,she has earned her doctorate in
biblical studies and received anhonorary doctorate in theology.
(01:56):
She is the founder of DivineGrace Ministries International
and Divine Connections CovenantFellowship, serving senior
leaders, pastors and otherministry leaders across the
nation as their spiritualcovering.
She's the CEO and founder ofLatrice Williams Global
Ministries.
She's an entrepreneur also isthe owner and CEO of Living With
(02:20):
More Enterprises.
Her company houses afull-service publishing company,
a magazine and newsletterdesign and layout division and
high-level kingdom leadershipand development training
institute.
And not only that, y'all, butshe is also an Amazon
international best-sellingauthor.
She has penned eight bookseight, eight books and created
(02:45):
four journals.
Come on now.
And recently her new book, theGod Agenda, is making notable
impact on and offline amongreaders and other authors.
And finally, she is the hostand founder of the no More Drama
Experience.
And the no More DramaExperience has become a safe
place of healing, hope anddeliverance for men and women,
(03:08):
especially kingdom leaders.
She is the person of the hourtoday.
So if you wouldn't mind, givingus a virtual hand clap and
welcome to our guest todaywelcome to our guest today, dr
(03:31):
Latrice Williams.
Dr. Latrice Williams (03:31):
Welcome, thank you, thank you.
Thank you for having me today.
This is so exciting.
Belinda Gaston (03:33):
We are excited to have you and if you are
listening and I just read theaccolades and the
accomplishments of Dr Latriceyou know that she is the leader
to lead us in this discussion,because we are going to have a
transparent discussion here.
So again, I always say grabyour pens and your pencils and
your note-taking devices and getready to take some notes for
(03:56):
these wisdom nuggets.
But somebody did write in to melast week and told me to stop
saying that because they weredriving and they don't want to
be writing while they're driving.
So, wherever you're listeningfrom, pay attention is what I'll
say Pay attention.
So, dr Latrice, we're going tojump right into our conversation
here.
(04:16):
I think it's important for us totalk about this topic because I
am a leader and life happensand it is difficult to lead when
life happens, when things justkind of hit us and we don't kind
of expect it.
But most people think asleaders, that we have it all
(04:38):
together, right.
I mean, you're a leader ifyou're leading a group of people
or you're leading anorganization or a ministry or
wherever it is that you'releading.
You're leading a group ofpeople or you're leading an
organization or ministry orwherever it is that you're
leading.
You're there because you haveit all together, so why do you
think this conversation aboutleading through difficult times?
Why do you think thisconversation is important?
Dr. Latrice Williams (04:59):
Well, my first thought about the
necessity of this conversationis that it is what's not seen
that can be most impactful inthe conversation.
It's easy to see us when weshow up.
It's easy to see us when weexecute.
It's easy to see the thingsthat look good.
(05:20):
But the impact, and, I think,the necessary influence, happens
in the conversations where wetalk about what didn't go well,
what challenges we had, whatthings we had to grow through,
and because sometimes that getsoverlooked, because we see what
some may call or they feel isthe glamour of it oh, everything
(05:41):
went well, everything wasexecuted, everything was so
beautiful and it was laid out,or you know, whatever those
things may be, but we don't seewhat it took to get there, we
don't see what was lost to getthere.
We don't see, you know, justthe different things that
sometimes we don't share,because by the time we get to
appearing to have it alltogether, we're just like we
(06:01):
made it.
And so I think that theseconversations will be so helpful
to the leaders One for thosewho are perhaps too focused on
having it all together, or thosewho are anxious because they
feel like they don't have it alltogether.
So this conversation could bebeneficial on either side to
help them to understand that one.
We don't have to have it alltogether.
(06:22):
It doesn't matter how much wedo and how well we show up.
There's somewhere that we cangrow, there's some place that
we've had to experience and even, especially the difficult
places, we've learned how to, orwe've been told, never let them
see you sweat or never givethem the proverbial, them the
(06:43):
satisfaction.
But most leaders, in theory,yeah, we have it all together,
we have the ability to show upwell, we have the ability to
execute well.
But what about the times whenwe didn't and we just appeared
to?
What about the times when, yeah, we showed up, we preached, we
taught, we ministered, we laidhands, we prophesied, and then,
(07:05):
you know, as soon as it was over, it was like, oh my God, get me
out of here.
I just need a moment, I've gotto get away, and so that's that
side that we don't often share.
That, I believe, needs to betalked about.
It needs to be shared.
Now let me say this it needs tobe shared from the healed place
.
The way we share it, theperspective from which we share
(07:28):
it, also makes a difference.
We need to be able to share itfrom the place where we've
gained the wisdom, we've trulyhealed, we've grown from it.
And so when we talk about it,there's not those traces of
bitterness or those where we mayhear what is the word I want to
say those jabs.
You know, sometimes you hearpeople talk and they're talking
truthfully about what they'veexperienced, but there's always
(07:50):
that little underlying thing.
That's when we know we need topull back and we need to have a
difference type of conversation.
But I think these conversationsare definitely necessary to
help other leaders to heal, helpother leaders to know that
while we're showing up well,let's show up, just let us live
well as well as leading well.
Belinda Gaston (08:08):
You have said so much in your first statement.
I want to kind of go back here,because this appearance of
leaders having it all togetherand I think if you are leading
in a corporate space you seethis just as much as you do in
other spaces and I think thatwas the thing that most
surprised me when I got to aplace where I was considered to
(08:32):
be a leader officially was howmany of my colleagues were
trying to figure it out orhaving difficulty.
And so I think that point ofpeople appearing to have it
together when they seem likethey have it together, is really
important.
And then the other part that Iheard you say was the healed
(08:57):
place, and we're going to talk alittle bit more about that
later.
But I think it's important forpeople to recognize whether
they're healed or not, and wehad a guest on the show who
talked about matters of theheart, Dr.
Nedra Buckmire, and one of thethings she talked about is how
those unhealed places show upwhen we lead.
(09:17):
And so I love that theseconversations are happening
around the same time so that ourleaders can kind of build on
that.
But I think it would be helpfulif we could kind of share some
examples of leading fromdifficult places, and so I want
to ask you if you can share atime when you had to lead
(09:39):
through a difficult time.
Can you share with us a timethat you had to lead and maybe
how you navigated that space?
Dr. Latrice Williams (09:51):
I have quite a I won't say quite a few,
but I do have a few examples.
But one of the examples that Iwill share is it was the loss of
every member and every leaderof my satellite campuses, of my
church plane.
One of the leaders left a lot ofyou know lies, a lot of
division, you know those typesof things that happen from the
(10:13):
place of offense.
And it was a time that for me,I had to endure and face like
alienation and abandonment.
And it wasn't so much that Ihad never seen those things in
my life before, but it came frompeople that I served faithfully
, people that I stood with,people who I just didn't expect
(10:34):
it from, and I mean, that's justthe reality.
And a lot of times as leaders,you know we are so all in with
people that we don't necessarilyexpect that if something like
of that magnitude happens thatthey would abandon you.
And so I still had to leadthose who were, who were with me
with the main campus, so thosewho still decided that I'm not
(10:56):
going anywhere, I'm just notgoing to be vocal, I'm gonna
stay.
But you know, so it was kind oflike a tug of war to see people
agree with someone but say I'mgoing to stay with you.
So I had to learn how tonavigate a wound without
wounding others.
Ok, we need to pause for amoment, and I need you know,
(11:40):
defending myself or trying toprove myself right, it was going
to cause more division, itwould have caused more confusion
, and so my learning how tonavigate that meant I had to not
necessarily compartmentalize,but I had to have safe spaces.
I had to have safe people thatwere outside of those who I led,
so that I did not wound thembecause they were looking on,
(12:06):
they were hearing the lies, theywere seeing the posts, all of
the things.
They were getting the phonecall.
But then they were looking tome and some were looking okay,
let's see what the pastor isgoing to do.
And so God taught me how to justkeep doing what he had taught
me to do Just keep being who youhave been, even though others
have changed.
And that's very difficult whenyou've given your life as a
(12:28):
leader to lead people and thensee them change.
It's something that happens.
And learning how to navigatethe wound I had to heal, I had
to process, but then I had tomake sure that I was very
intentional about how I handledthose who were still with me so
that I did not wound them.
And sometimes it's hard to beintentional when you're wounded,
(12:50):
when you're hurting and you'relike all I really want to do is
lash out.
But what would that reallysolve?
What would that really build?
When you're called to be abuilder, how would that really
help?
And if there are other leaderswho are watching you, then how
is that really leading them?
So it was a very intentionaltime in my life.
(13:10):
I can share it from, like Isaid, the healed place, because
I've been able to help otherleaders now who have experienced
similar things and not be.
I don't have to share it fromthe place of this is what they
did, this is what they said.
Now I can say, yes, thishappened, yes, that happened,
but this is what God taught me,this is what I did, this is how
I handled it, so that theyunderstand that you don't have
(13:32):
to lash out, but you have to beintentional about how you handle
those who are still with youabout how you handle those who
are still with you, and so thankyou for sharing that Earth
because you're very vulnerable.
Belinda Gaston (13:43):
So I appreciate that, thank you for that and, I
think, for our listeners, thereare some nuggets here that I
don't want to skip over as wethink about leading in a
difficult situation.
So, in your situation, Dr.
Latrice, you were in asituation where the leaders that
you led, it sounds like, leftthe organization, and when they
(14:07):
left, they left with, in somecases, tarnishing your
reputation or attempting to, orsharing a narrative that wasn't
true, and you had to navigatethat space while still leading
other people, and so one of thethings I heard you talk about
that I want you to elaborate onis this idea of a safe space.
(14:29):
I think part of for leaders,part of what is necessary and
we've talked about this beforeon this show is having that
space where you can be youwithout being the leader you,
because being the leader, youcarries a certain level of
(14:49):
responsibility and expectation,and so let's talk about this
safe space.
So you said you had a safespace when you were going
through this period.
How did you create that safespace and how did you?
How did that work for you?
How did these safe, this safespace work for you?
Dr. Latrice Williams (15:22):
leaders and they were my safe space.
They were the people that Icould talk to and they so I have
this thing that I say we needpeople with trusted voices and
trusted ears.
So trusted voices are thepeople who can speak into our
lives and speak from anon-biased place.
They're going to tell me whenI'm wrong and when I'm right.
They're going to encourage andrebuke as needed.
But then their trusted ears,people who can hear you, and
(15:43):
they can hear you at your worstplace, your most vulnerable
place, your most traumatizedplace, and not judge.
They don't sit in a seat ofjudgment.
They don't now disrespect youor see you differently because
you're having a vulnerablemoment or if you're just having
a bad moment, because as leaders, we can just have a bad moment
(16:05):
and so people who can hear you,but you're safe enough to pour
out your heart in a way that youmay not do with other people.
And so, because I had to, Iknew I needed to contain what I
was feeling.
I needed to contain a lot ofthe turmoil that I was going
through.
I couldn't just contain it andhold it.
I had to contain it whennecessary and then release it in
(16:28):
that space that they gave me tojust talk freely about it, and
it wasn't about talking aboutpeople.
Now, this is what I love.
It wasn't about talking aboutthe people, the people who did
it.
I talked about what happened.
I talked about how it made mefeel.
I flushed out the things thatjust you know it's all about.
(16:49):
The people know this safe, safespace is for you, is to be
about you, and so it was a spaceabout me.
Okay, latrice, this is what ishappening.
How are you feeling?
What are you feeling like doing?
(17:11):
What is it that you want to say?
But you know you can't say that.
You know what is it that youneed to get out of your
literally out of your soul soyou can heal?
And so that was the space forme.
I had to make sure I talked topeople who would talk to Latrice
, not talk to Latrice about thepeople.
Talk to Latrice, about Latrice.
Talk to me about this placethat I'm in, what I'm
(17:32):
experiencing, and then how tohelp me get through it, versus
focusing me on, oh, they've donethis.
They said this because, once itwas done, and said it was done,
and said that part was over,the part that was continuous was
me having to process that, andso you need safe spaces.
As leaders, we need people whowill hear us without judgment,
(17:56):
but that will hear.
Hear us and still hear.
Holy Spirit for us, becausethey'll hear us without judgment
, but they can't hear us andthen just let us get away with
everything.
Okay, latrice, now I hear youand I have no judgment, but let
me tell you where you're wrong.
Let me tell you how you canprocess that differently.
And so those spaces helped methe most, and really it was just
(18:18):
being able to talk it out.
Sometimes my spiritual parentsdidn't say anything, they just
listened and then they wouldpray and that will be the end of
the conversation.
And sometimes, you know, Iwould get finished talking and I
would rant and I would rave andI would cry, and very few
people can say they've seen mecry, but they can, and they
would encourage me and theywould love on me and then they
(18:38):
would correct me and then wewere yeah, that was it.
So that safe space includes allof it.
Belinda Gaston (18:47):
I think that's really important.
I think in a time where peopleare so digitally connected but
not necessarily connected inreal life, so to speak, it is
challenging for leaders to findthat space, and so I think
that's a really good tip and Ithink it brings us to kind of.
My next question for you istips for people who are dealing
(19:12):
with difficult challenges,difficulties as they're leading,
and I'll give you some examples.
I know for me most recently andI talked about this in a
previous episode I did notrealize that I was grieving
while leading.
So my right hand, my assistantat work, passed away last year,
(19:36):
towards the end of last year,and I thought, okay, we had her
memorial service, I got a chanceto eulogize her and we kind of
moved on and I wasn't going intothe office much, I was working
virtually, but every time I wentinto the office I felt her
presence and I felt that griefover again.
(19:58):
I just didn't realize that'swhat I was feeling.
And so over the last I wouldsay I guess, six months, I
realized that I have beenoperating not quite as myself,
as a leader, because I wasgrieving, but I didn't realize
that what it was until someonerecently called it out, and so I
think that a lot of times, asleaders, we're dealing with
(20:22):
grief.
I have a coworker who's goingthrough a divorce right now.
It's a difficult thing.
We have on the job challengesor in our businesses.
Maybe we might not have theclients we want or we might have
difficulty with our business.
If we are ministry leaders, wemight be having challenges in
the congregation.
If we are ministry leaders, wemight be having challenges in
the congregation.
So you're dealing with allthese things, but there's an
(20:44):
expectation for you to lead, andI would love it if we could
talk about what are somepractical things that leaders
can do to navigate these spaces.
And it sounds like the firstthing is this safe space,
creating a safe space.
But what else would you say topeople?
Dr. Latrice Williams (21:02):
So, in addition to the safe space, you
also need to be kind to yourself, and what I mean by that is
take some time off.
If you need to, don't be afraidto step away Now.
For pastors, a lot of times wesay I can't step away, I don't
have the help.
If I don't do it, who's goingto do it?
(21:24):
One of the things the HolySpirit showed me was that, even
if you do it, if you're not wellwhen you do it, it's not
helping anybody.
So take the time away, be kindenough to yourself to embrace
the fact that I'm in a difficulttime.
I still have to lead, but Ineed to position myself to one
(21:44):
heel so I can lead well.
And the way I'm going to get tohealing is I have to
acknowledge that something hashappened.
I have to embrace the fact thatI'm human and I need time for
my wound to heal, just likeanybody else does.
Or I need time to processwhatever this difficult space is
(22:07):
, so that God can give me a newstrategy, or God can speak to me
and help me, give me a way tomove through it and still lead
well.
But a lot of times we just keepplowing ahead.
We just keep going because wehave to.
So be kind to yourself, giveyourself time, take a sabbatical
, sabbaticals.
God built this into his divineplan for us to rest.
(22:31):
Rest helps us to, it bringsclarity.
Rest helps us to be rejuvenated, not just physically, but
mentally, emotionally, and sotake that time that you need.
Just today, I had a verydifficult work day and I just
took two hours away and I justsat down.
(22:51):
I didn't talk to anybody, Ididn't try to do any other type
of work, I just did nothing formyself, and even though in the
doing nothing, I really wasdoing something for myself, and
so that's being kind to yourself, taking care of yourself helps
you to then take care of otherpeople.
(23:11):
And then one of the otherthings that I would say is know
when to say when, know yourlimits, know your boundaries and
then respect your boundaries.
When you respect yourboundaries, others will respect
your boundaries.
When you know when to say when,like today, I knew let me say
(23:33):
when, and so that was literallythe way I was able to make it to
this time for the podcast,because I knew when to say when.
I knew I had gone far enough ineverything I had done today.
And so I think that when welearn our boundaries and respect
our boundaries, then it puts usin a position for others to do
(23:53):
so as well.
Belinda Gaston (23:57):
Those are great tips Creating the safe space,
being kind to yourself andknowing when to say when setting
boundaries.
I think a lot of times, asleaders, the boundary piece is a
challenge.
Challenge because we haveyou're either a servant leader
(24:25):
we use that all the time.
You're either a servant leader,or you're an empathetic leader,
or you're a leading with theteam in mind.
It's all these things thatreally focus on as a leader,
particularly particularly forwomen, giving of themselves as a
part of leadership, and I'mfascinated by this, because I
(24:46):
don't really hear that narrativewith men.
To be honest, I don'tnecessarily hear male leaders
tell other male leaders you needto give of yourself.
That's just not the dialogue.
They do talk about servantleadership, but I think it's
something that's just kind ofmaybe I don't know why, but it
is something that is ingrainedas women who lead, and so I have
(25:12):
been guilty of this, of havingtrouble setting boundaries, and
I know colleagues that I have inthe workplace and people who I
serve with in ministry, inbusiness, there's similar things
, and so can you talk aboutsetting boundaries and how maybe
leaders can go about settingthese boundaries, particularly
(25:36):
in seasons of difficulty?
Dr. Latrice Williams (25:40):
in seasons of difficulty.
So in seasons of difficulty, weneed time that is set aside
just for ourselves, because youcannot consistently pour and
never receive a deposit or apour.
And so to set boundaries, I'lljust tell you one of the things
I did was I stopped taking phonecalls and text messages at all
(26:01):
times of the day and the night.
This is something that I knowas church leaders specifically.
We will just if they call,we're going to answer.
If they text, they must need us, let me respond.
I don't want to offend them, Idon't want to make them think
that they're being overlooked,and we do it from a good place.
But sometimes we do it to thedetriment of ourselves, and so
(26:24):
setting boundaries can besomething as simple as I don't
respond to text messages afternine o'clock.
I don't answer, you know, phonecalls after nine o'clock,
unless, of course, you know it'ssome type of emergency or you
know.
But those are things that youcan do for yourself, and what
happens is people will begin tolearn If I call her after nine,
she's probably not going toanswer, unless I text her and
(26:47):
say, hey, it's an emergency, Ihave to call you, this is what's
going on.
And so we set.
Just we can do small thingsthat make big impact as it
relates to boundaries.
The other thing about boundariesis that don't set a boundary
and then disrespect it.
No, don't set a boundary andthen disrespect it.
(27:08):
I can't say to my granddaughterI have a six-year-old
granddaughter and I can't say toher Aurora, don't jump on that
chair.
If you jump on that chair, thisis what's going to happen.
(27:28):
So I've set a boundary, I'veset an expectation, and then she
jumps on the chair and nothinghappens.
And so I can't set a boundaryand then disrespect.
Don't set boundaries becausesomebody has betrayed you or
because you're in a difficultseason.
Set the boundary from a healthyplace.
(27:49):
So sometimes, before you makethe boundary decision, make sure
you know the why and make sureyour why stems from I need to do
this to be better, not becauseI need to punish people or not
because this happened to me.
So, in order to keep this fromever happening again, this is
what I'm going to do.
Well, the truth is, we can dothat and it still may happen.
(28:12):
It may just happen from anotherperson or in another scenario.
So set that boundary with theright perspective scenario.
So set that boundary with theright perspective.
I think that sometimes weinitially set boundaries because
something has happened,somebody has done something, but
turn it inward and say why do Ineed these boundaries?
(28:33):
What's the purpose of it, howdo these boundaries help me and
how do they help me to helpothers?
So I hope those tips on settingboundaries help a little bit.
They do.
Belinda Gaston (28:45):
They do, and I was thinking about the realistic
boundaries and respecting theboundaries, particularly because
I have been known to setboundaries that are unrealistic
and that I don't honor, and thenI end up going into a cycle.
So I set the boundary, I don'tadhere to it or people I don't
hold people accountable for it,they go past the boundary I set,
(29:08):
I get frustrated and I set theboundary again.
I think it's an awful cycle,and so I think that's a reminder
.
It's so easy to do.
It's so easy to do, so I thinkthat's really good.
I do have another question andyou kind of alluded to this
throughout this conversationabout your faith.
(29:30):
This podcast is for women wholead, who are women of faith,
but they're in various levels oftheir faith walk and faith
experience, and so you've talkeda lot about the Holy Spirit.
You've talked about I think youkind of talked about prayer at
one point, but I would like foryou to share with people how
your faith has helped you leadin difficult times.
Dr. Latrice Williams (29:58):
So let's have an honest conversation
about that.
My faith in people and my faithin the loyalty of people was
shaken.
That's something we don't wantto always admit or acknowledge,
but in order for my faith to bestrengthened, I had to admit
that, I had to acknowledge itand even embrace it.
That, ok, my faith has kind ofbeen shaking.
(30:20):
Now my faith in God began togrow because God knew what I
felt like was the worstexperience that I could ever
have in all of my years ofministry, to become one of the
best seasons of my life, becausehe taught me more in the last
three years than probably in thelast 24 years.
He taught me things aboutmyself, he taught me things
(30:45):
about people, and so my faithstarted growing because I
started realizing that thiswasn't the worst season.
It was just the worst season Ihad so far.
This wasn't the worst season.
It was just one of the worstexperiences I've had so far.
And so my faith was challenged.
I did not think I could go on.
(31:06):
I many, many times justcontemplated well, let's just
close, let's just let it go.
You know, these things arebeing said, these things are
being done.
It will be easier.
Being said these things arebeing done, it will be easier.
But it was God who helped me inmy faith walk to say it would
be easier.
But would that really be afaith move?
(31:27):
It would be the easy move, itwould be the simplest thing to
do.
As a matter of fact, it'swhat's expected, it's what's
been said is going to happen toyou.
They are waiting for it to fallapart.
But would that really be afaith move?
Or would that just be me saying, okay, this is the easy way out
?
It's, you know, it's in pieces,let's let it stay.
(31:55):
So God began to grow my faithjust by rebuilding me first.
So my faith was not like oh,the Holy Spirit spoke to me and
said you know, increase yourfaith.
No, he increased my faith everysingle day.
He increased my faith.
The same way, my faith wasshaken by people and their
actions and their words.
He began to increase my faith,first in him, just through his
reminders, just through himshowing me that, hey, I'm still
(32:16):
using you, you're stillnecessary, I still have great
work for you to do.
And so my faith was in the factthat, after all of that, god
still sees me, god still speaksto me, god still uses me.
And so I was just so amazedwith God.
But then my faith started to bestrengthened even more because
God said I'm going to restoreand I'm going to give you more
(32:38):
and I'm going to bring you knowdifferent people into your life
who are on a, as you said, adifferent faith level, a
different level of maturity.
And so he started using peopleto help strengthen my faith
again.
The same way people shook it,he built it again by my prayer
time with him, times of fasting,those times when I said I would
(33:01):
just pull away and I would justbe in quiet.
It wasn't so much because I didwithdraw, but he never let me
isolate because he would sendsomebody in, and him sending
somebody in was the thing to say.
You cannot go to a dark place.
And so it helped my faith toknow that God was still with me
place.
(33:21):
And so it helped my faith toknow that God was still with me,
that he was healing me, and Istarted seeing where I, if I had
a time where God wanted me toshare.
I started hearing myself able totalk about certain things and
not feel that little thing thatyou feel from a wound.
And so my faith was builtthrough those multiple things
prayer, fasting and people.
People were a part of myhealing process, just like
people were a part of thewounding process.
(33:45):
It helps your faith walk in away that, unless you experience
that, you won't understand it.
But I can tell you God can doit and I am like a living,
breathing witness that my faithis probably on a different level
now than it's probably everbeen.
And so now I'm probablystronger in faith that I
(34:05):
wouldn't be as shaken by now.
It'll always hurt, you know, ifsomebody does something to you
we're human but I probablywouldn't be as hurt.
I probably would not be asshaken and feeling like, oh, I
can't go on, I can't do it.
So I'm built up more now and Ihave a greater capacity now in
my faith.
Belinda Gaston (34:24):
Thank you for sharing that.
I'm struck by the fact thatwhat happened as you were
leading in that situation withpeople, it kind of shook your
faith, that your faith decreaseda bit in those people, and then
how God built your faith andthen brought people in to help
(34:45):
in that building process, that'sthat's amazing.
Dr. Latrice Williams (34:50):
Let me say this to you also, Belinda I had
to allow the people in.
So in this rebuilding of myfaith because my faith in God
was never shaken, he just had torebuild my faith in other areas
.
But I had to allow the peoplein, and so one of the things
that God will continually say tome is accept the help, Don't
(35:12):
reject the help.
And he would say it to me indifferent times of my life or
different ways.
He would show me hey, I'msending the help.
And I didn't always understandwhat was the help for.
I would just hear him sayaccept the help.
And now, as I look back, thesewere his ways of rebuilding me
and these were his moments ofsaying hey, you know, I'm
(35:34):
building your faith back in thisarea and in that area and
increasing your capacity.
Belinda Gaston (35:43):
That's yes, accepting the help.
I think that's a good place tokind of stop here.
We've talked about yourexperience as a leader, facing
difficulty, and how you foundyour safe spaces as you were
going through, how you had toheal first in order to lead.
(36:05):
You gave us tips on how to walkthrough this process, and this
last tip about accepting thehelp is really something I think
leaders because as leaderswe're taught well, you're a
leader, so you do it alone, youdo it in isolation, and
leadership and isolation theydon't go hand in hand.
They don't have to.
So I'm glad that you sharedthat.
(36:26):
But before we kind of end, I dowant to know if you have any
final thoughts that you'd liketo share with our listeners, for
listeners who may be leading indifficult situations or
difficult times.
What are your any finalthoughts for them?
Dr. Latrice Williams (36:42):
No, I think I want to reiterate
something you said is that wehave been taught or we feel like
, as leaders, we have to do italone.
But you don't have to do italone.
You simply need the trustedvoices, the trusted ears who can
hear you, and you need the safespace and having those things.
That's the first step of notdoing it alone and then
(37:04):
accepting the help.
It's very easy to reject helpwhen you've been wounded or when
you're in a difficult seasonand you start feeling like, oh
well, I'll just do it myself.
If I want it done, right, I'llmake sure it's done.
But what happens when you can'tdo it?
And so I want leaders toconsider perhaps your difficult
season is and I need to allowthem to be who they are, to
(37:44):
whatever God has assigned to myhands.
And so I think that if we'llaccept the help, if we'll
embrace that, god knows what weneed, god knows who we need, he
knows when we need it and he'sable to send it at the right
time.
You know, don't count yourselfout because you're in a
difficult time, don't count yourvision out, because you're in a
(38:07):
difficult time, but just makesure that you have the things
that we've talked about in place, and if you don't have them,
then ask God to send them.
Ask God to send you a safeplace.
Send you leaders you can talkto, send you people who can
speak into your life and holdyou accountable, correct you,
love on you and help you tobuild so you can rebuild.
(38:28):
And so I believe that that'swhat I would leave with the
listeners is that you don't haveto do it alone, and in
retrospect I've learned that Ican't do it alone.
We were never meant to do italone.
There's not one person that Godhas ever sent into the earth
that was meant to do it alone.
Belinda Gaston (38:51):
I thank you for that.
That is a great place to end.
Thank you so much, Dr Latrice,for your time.
So much, Dr Latrice, for yourtime, for your transparency.
This, I think, will help peoplereally reflect on where they
are, if they're leading throughdifficulty and really getting
(39:12):
some things in place so they canlead well even through
difficult times.
So, thank you, Thank you, Thankyou Before we go.
I want to know.
I know that people may want toreach out to you, so I want you
to tell us first if there'sanything you're working on that
you'd like to share, and alsohow people can stay in touch
(39:33):
with you.
How can they reach you?
Dr. Latrice Williams (39:36):
Well, the best way to reach me and the
easiest way is to go directly tomy website, which is
wwwlatricewilliamscom, and allof my information about
everything that I do is prettymuch at that website.
What am I working on?
I have a new book that I'mworking on.
I haven't talked much about ityet, but it's actually a tool
(39:59):
for pastors and leaders to helpthem to teach about giving in
their ministries and the benefitof it and the necessity of it.
So I've just started working onit, but I believe it's going to
be an amazing tool for leaders,pastors and leaders, even
nonprofits and, of course, youknow I'm always working on no
More Drama because we'repreparing for the June event or
(40:21):
the June gathering.
So those are my probably my twothings that I would share that
I'm working on right now.
Belinda Gaston (40:27):
That's great.
I can't believe another book.
You already have eight.
This is the number nine.
Number nine we are, I'm excitedto see the finished product and
we'll put links up for folks tobe able to find you.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom.
We so appreciate you.
(40:48):
So thank you for being a guesttoday, Dr Latrice.
Thank you, Thank you for havingme.
Dr. Latrice Williams (40:53):
It has been such a pleasure and I am so
excited about what God is doingthrough this podcast.
I believe it's going to be ablessing to me.
Belinda Gaston (41:02):
Thank you and for our listeners.
Thank you so much for joiningus on the Graced to Lead podcast
.
We always appreciate youjoining us.
Remember to follow us, tosubscribe.
We do have our weekly giveaway,so subscribe, share the podcast
if there's someone you thinkthat could benefit from the
(41:24):
wisdom of leading throughdifficulties, and until we see
each other, we'll listen andhear each other again.
Remember that you are indeedgraced to lead.
Have a wonderful week.
Bye-bye.
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