Authenticity isn't just a buzzword—it's the foundation of true leadership. Cassandra Williams pulls back the curtain on what happens when leaders present polished exteriors while struggling silently within. As a certified professional life coach specializing in helping high-functioning women, she brings profound insight into the journey toward unapologetic leadership.
The conversation opens with Cassandra's powerful declaration that she's in an "unapologetically me" season—showing up as her whole self rather than compartmentalizing different roles. This authenticity didn't emerge overnight but through intentional self-awareness and embracing every part of her story. "Everything that happened was on purpose for purpose," she shares, highlighting how even difficult experiences shape effective leadership.
What makes this discussion particularly valuable are the practical indicators of inauthentic leadership Cassandra identifies: micromanaging, emotional volatility, decision paralysis, conflict avoidance, and chronic procrastination. These behaviors often stem from unresolved wounds that manifest in leadership settings. "Sometimes the most insecure people are the people with the biggest titles," she notes with striking clarity.
The concept of "leading from the inside out" forms the heart of Cassandra's approach. Using the movie "Inside Out" as an analogy, she describes how many leaders have emotional chaos internally while maintaining composed exteriors. True leadership requires addressing those internal "characters" to create alignment between inner reality and outer expression.
Perhaps most compelling is Cassandra's vulnerability about her own marriage journey, where she had to "surrender daily" during challenging seasons. Now helping other wives create the safe space she once needed, she demonstrates how authentic leadership extends beyond professional settings into our most intimate relationships. Her wisdom that "submission doesn't mean you're a doormat—it takes strength to surrender" offers a refreshing perspective on balancing personal relationships with leadership roles.
Ready to embrace your authentic leadership journey? Connect with Cassandra at www.thecassandrawilliams.com and discover her children's book "Lead Anyway, Layla" and forthcoming work "Lead with the Limp"—encouraging leaders to stop hiding their limitations and instead lead powerfully through them.
Mentioned During the Show:
Connect with Cassandra (website): thecassandrawilliams.com
Lead Anyway Layla (Children's Book): Amazon
Please subscribe to our mailing list to stay connected and get updates! Thanks for listening to the Graced to Lead Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Belinda Gaston (00:08):
Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast.
I'm Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen, I'm excited today
about our guest, CassandraWilliams.
Before I have her come on, Ineed to tell you about her y'all
.
She is a wife, a mother, anauthor, a speaker and a
certified professional life andempowerment coach.
(00:29):
Her life and leadership aremarked by authenticity, wisdom
and a willingness to embracewhat many would rather hide.
It's one of the things I loveabout her is that she is so
transparent.
She specializes in emotionalhealing, identity restoration
and strategic coaching for highfunctioning women who look
(00:51):
successful on the outside butare struggling silently within.
Can anyone relate to that?
Listen, she was bornprematurely to a teenage mother
who chose courage overconvenience, and she's learned
how to fight With that sametenacity.
She brings to every woman shewalks with the power and
(01:12):
encouragement that they need inorder to help them.
She doesn't just coach y'all,she builds women, and not from a
place of perfection either, butfrom a deep place of process
and tested faith.
Listen, would you do me a favorand welcome Cassandra Williams
(01:32):
to the show?
Welcome, Cassandra.
Cassandra Williams (01:36):
Thank you so much for having me so good to
be here today.
Belinda Gaston (01:40):
Listen, I am excited, and, for those of you
who are listening, I just wantyou to know that Cassandra and I
know each other.
Listen, she is one of myfavorite people and so I'm
excited to have her on.
And, Cassandra, I think we wantto start.
So, first, I am really struckby similarities in our stories.
We're both born prematurely toteenage moms, we both help women
(02:02):
in places that are hard, and Ithink we both have similar
levels of transparency.
Look, we tell it how it is.
And so I really want to kind ofstart there, like your why, why
is it that you've chosen thispath for your profession, to
coach women and to help them?
(02:23):
Can you tell us a little bitabout the why for you, the heart
behind your work, and why youdo what you do?
Cassandra Williams (02:32):
Yeah, I, I want everything to matter.
That was, that was my thing,for God.
If I have to walk through it, Iwant it to matter.
I need to be able to pour itinto someone else, and coaching
isn't necessarily what I do.
It's who I am.
Naturally, those are mygiftings.
(02:54):
I've been doing it all of mylife, but it was once I found
that coaching terminology, thatpassion met purpose, and I
literally was like this is whatI was born to do, and so I love
being able to walk peoplethrough things.
My husband asked me one time hesaid do you want to go around
(03:15):
it, you want to go over it or doyou want to go through it?
And I instinctively said I'llgo through it, just in order to
blaze a trail for someone else.
Belinda Gaston (03:27):
Wow, so you really feel this thing,
Cassandra, it's not just words.
You know there's a coach onevery corner, right.
So I love that.
You said that coaching is notwhat you do, it's who you are,
and I can attest to that.
I think the first time we met,I think we were at a event it
was some event that someone hadand I remember being in your
presence and just feeling that,even in the I don't remember
(03:50):
exactly our conversation, but Ido remember feeling like you
were kind of gently guiding mewithout even knowing me, and so
I love that.
And so I want to talk a littlebit about seasons, because on
this show we've talked, wereally do have women who lead,
and some of the women who listenare leading from places where
(04:10):
they're in corporate spaces,where they're in ministry spaces
.
Some are entrepreneurs.
I have a growing group of stayat home moms who may have
hobbies, interests, but theirprimary focus is leading in
their homes.
And so I want to talk a littlebit about what season this is
(04:31):
for you, because I know kind ofthe backstory.
I know that you're married, Iknow that you're a mom and I
know that you're a leader, andwe all have these seasons.
How would you describe theseason that you're in right now?
Cassandra Williams (04:46):
My season right now is unapologetic.
I'm in that unapologetically meseason of that understanding
the authentic version of myselfand allowing her to show up.
Not the mom, not the CEO, notthe prophet, not the pastor,
(05:15):
just all of me as one wholeindividual person.
Because sometimes we can be allof those things and all of
those seasons and all of thoseplaces and we're not showing up
as our authentic selves.
So the season for me now isunapologetic.
It's just me, just me.
Belinda Gaston (05:38):
Cassandra, so we talk about this all the time Be
authentically you.
I love that you're unapologetic, no excuses for who you are, no
apologies for who you are.
But can we talk about how youget there?
Because I think that so I think, when you become a woman of a
certain age, like myself, it'seasier to kind of walk in this.
(06:01):
But I believe that you can be ayounger woman, you know, you
can be a leader, an emergingleader, you can be a leader in
your 30s, in your 20s, in your40s, and still walk in this
authentic, unapologetic state.
But the question is how do youget there?
(06:21):
How do you get from this tothis place?
Cassandra?
What would you say to ourlisteners who are like I want to
do that.
How do I get there?
What would you say to them?
Cassandra Williams (06:31):
It starts with self-awareness being okay
with the skin you're in, beingokay with your values, your
skill sets, just how you weremade as a woman of faith, god
says you were fearfully andwonderfully made.
I knew you before you were evenborn, right.
But we get here, life happensand we become chameleons.
(06:56):
We become whatever people havecalled us or told us we were
supposed to be.
So in order for you to walk inthat authentic place, you have
to go back to the originaldesign that God created and many
of us you know you can do that.
That's one of the things that Ihave a strong desire to do now
(07:16):
is to get those little girlswhile they're in elementary
school and middle school and letthem know it is okay to be you
know, hattie Chatterbox, it'sokay because that's probably
part of your gifting that'sgoing to be used later on in
life.
But many of us were told hush,go, sit down, children are seen
(07:37):
and not heard, and we carriedthat throughout our life.
And so then we have to gothrough those seasons of
unpacking that and for the verything that we hid behind or were
told, that's the very thing Godis saying yeah, I want to use
that.
So, yeah, I need you to talk,but I was muted, yeah, and so we
(08:02):
have to come off mute, we haveto be okay with that.
So to in order to be, to getinto that place, and it doesn't
matter, it doesn't have to be in.
You know, thirties, forties Forme it was like 40, and it's been
a journey to get here at 51.
So it's not overnight, but youcan start wherever you are right
(08:22):
now in this moment and justembrace you, all of you, the
family that you grew up in, thatyou were born into.
That was on purpose for purpose.
It wasn't a mistake, it hadvalue.
It had value Because, when Ilook back over my life, had I
(08:54):
not been born to that family,had I not went to that school,
had I not married that man, hadI not went through those
circumstances, I would not bewho I am today.
All of those things were partof the point.
I had choices to make now, butthere was Graced, right Graced
to leave.
There was Graced in there formy decisions and my choices,
that God still is able to usethem.
That's why I was a teenagerwhen I asked, when I told God,
(09:18):
I'll go through this willinglyif you'll use it for your glory
if you'll use it for your glory.
Belinda Gaston (09:30):
And so I'm pausing intentionally here,
because that's a powerfulstatement to think about.
It really is a change inperspective, almost right.
It's instead of thinking aboutall the things that happened to
me, or all the things I didn'thave, or all the things I wish
were different, understandingthat each part, every experience
(09:54):
, every position, every location, everything, it all matters.
It all matters, and so I'd likefor you to talk about that.
If I'm a leader and I'm in theplace where I'm not walking
authentically orunapologetically, that I've
handled, you know, not reallypretending, but hiding certain
(10:18):
things so that I can lead well,how do you think not being in
the place of this unapologeticspace or season you're in, how
do you think that impactsleadership?
Cassandra Williams (10:32):
It limits how we lead, because I've always
been a leader.
Now, sometimes I tried to leadfrom the back.
I was leading as a greatsupport system.
Lead from the back I wasleading as a great support
system.
Sometimes the most insecurepeople are the people with the
biggest titles.
The CEO may lead the way thatthey do.
(10:56):
They're very controlling in theway they micromanage and all of
those things.
That may be because there's aninsecure person inside of there
that they're masking.
That may be because there's aninsecure person inside of there
that they're masking thatthey're hiding.
So outwardly they have all ofthis power, this control
(11:16):
position applause, accolades theimage, but inside they're, you
know, silently waiting forsomebody to validate her, or a
young man waiting for someone tocome and get them and say
(11:37):
you're okay that they moved onphysically in age, but
emotionally and so when certainthings happen, that little child
manifests, and so that's whyyou're looking at them and
you're like, wait, whoa, what isthat?
(11:58):
It's almost like they'rethrowing a temper tantrum and
you're like you're 40, 50, 60years old and you're acting 16,
17, 10.
And that's where that comesfrom is because inside we're one
way, outside we look acompletely different way, and
(12:19):
sometimes that's how we miss thebiggest opportunities that God
gives us is because we will lookat the position and never look
deeper to see a wounded personcrying out for him.
Belinda Gaston (12:36):
That's so good.
So not being in the place whereyou're authentic is limiting,
and you're saying that some ofthe signs could be things like
micromanaging or not being ableto control your emotions.
Are there other signs that youmay not be walking in the place
(12:56):
of authenticity in yourleadership, not being able to
make decisions, it's whatevereverybody else wants to do.
Cassandra Williams (13:04):
Being able to make decisions, it's whatever
everybody else wants to do.
And so now we get nothing done,because we're always doing what
everybody wants to do, or it'slast minute because you're
afraid of the confrontation.
You don't want conflict, you'renot versed in that conflict.
Resolution you want to run, butin some cases, resolution you
(13:29):
want to run, but in some casesyou have to stand and be like
okay, this is what we're goingto do and steer the ship forward
.
Um, some of the other things isthat we may be those people that
procrastinate.
Procrastination is another one,that you wait to the last
minute to do it, so I have to doit, instead of doing proper
planning.
Yes, it still ends up great,but look at all the strengths
(13:55):
that happen in that 24-hourperiod to make it happen.
So those are just a few things.
And that's not just incorporate America, that's even
in your household, as a wife, asa mom, because for all of you
out there that are housewives,you're the real MVP.
(14:18):
Okay, because you are keepingthat household moving, and
sometimes that place ofleadership is minimized instead
of applauded.
Belinda Gaston (14:31):
I'm so glad you said that, because I think that
a lot of times, leaders, theyconsider themselves leaders
because they have a particulartitle or a particular job
function, a particular title ora particular job function.
And more and more, as I talkwith some of the listeners of
this show, I realized that thatspace of people who are home
(14:52):
managers, who are stay-at-homemoms whether they are or, in the
case of home managers,sometimes they are housewives
they don't have children, butthey have to manage the affairs
of their household, and that isa level of leadership, and so
I'm glad you said that.
And so this goes to thisphilosophy that I've noticed
about you of this leading fromthe inside.
(15:13):
It really is.
I think if someone were to askme, tell me about Cassandra and
her coaching approach or hercoaching philosophy, based on
what I know about you, I wouldsay that that is part of your
philosophy is leading from theinside out, and so can you talk
about a little bit about that?
Cassandra Williams (15:35):
Leading from the inside out is.
Take the movie Inside Out,where these people have all
these little people, theiremotions right.
They're running around on theinside of them.
Literally, that's the way weare.
We have all of these thingsrunning around on the inside.
So a lot of times when you showup, you're poised, you got on
(15:58):
the right suit, you got on theright dress, the right outfit
and you look the part.
By all means you're killing.
But on the inside, all thoselittle people are running around
screaming, and so we have tolearn to get those people
settled, so that not only areyou looking the part, you are
(16:25):
the part, because when we talkabout well, we don't like to
talk about it, but we're goingto talk about it a little bit
today.
Imposter syndrome, that's whereyou're presenting something that
you don't even believe yourself.
You're presenting this toeverybody else, but inside you
feel like I don't even know whatI'm doing, even though
(16:47):
everybody else is saying you'redoing a great job.
And you go home, lay your headon the pillow and you cry
yourself to sleep, because onthe inside, love comes from the
inside out.
Confidence comes from theinside out.
Confidence comes from theinside out.
(17:07):
Your self-worth comes from theinside out, because otherwise it
can be all around you and youwon't feel it.
You can't receive it.
You'll be longing for somethingthat's right there and you
can't even embrace it to bringit because on the inside.
(17:29):
And so that's why I do a lot ofinside work so that when you do
show up in circles, in spaces,even if they don't value who you
are, you value yourself and youdon't answer to any and
everything.
You don't receive any andeverything that you understand
(17:52):
what you've been called to doand you show up in that space
just like that and listen.
Sometimes they receive it,sometimes they don't.
If it's not, the worst is shakethe dust off your feet, and
that's a hard thing to do ifyou're not okay with it.
Belinda Gaston (18:15):
To understand it's not me, it's them you
mentioned that the word says toshake the dust off your feet,
and so I'm assuming that faithplays a part in how you lead and
what you do.
So can you talk about how yourfaith has shaped your coaching
(18:41):
business?
I know you're an author, Ibelieve.
Now We'll talk about that in aminute.
You have your own podcast, likeyou're doing a lot of things.
How does your faith impact howyou lead in those spaces, even
as a wife and a mom?
Cassandra Williams (19:01):
My faith is the center of it all.
It's like air to me.
It's the air that I breathe,because without it I would be a
(19:25):
mess Pretty little mess, but amess nonetheless.
I'm shy or I can't go do what Ineed to do.
It just means I recharge bymyself.
So I'm okay in my house, I'mgood so, but there are times
where my faith, the instructionsfrom God, mandates that I have
(19:50):
to go outside.
I have to be present for hisdaughters, and I love just being
an extension in the earth,because what I get to do is I
get to really sometimes bringGod back into places that he's
been out of for a season.
Belinda Gaston (20:16):
So that is part of why Graced to Lead exists
this last statement that youmade about bringing God into
places where he hasn't existedin some time and I
wholeheartedly believe which iswhy I'm doing this, because
there really is not income oranything attached to this but I
believe that part of the purposeI have through Graced to Lead
(20:40):
and all the things that Gracedto Lead is attached to, is to
remind people of their position.
You are in the position ofleadership, not by accident as
you said, it all matters butbecause you have an opportunity
to be a reflection of God.
Sometimes we are the only Godthat people see how we relate to
(21:01):
people, how we lead, how wemake decisions, and so I am so
glad that you said that, and soI think you know.
When we talk about faith, a lotof times people hear oh well,
that's just because you knowCassandra, she's a minister,
she's a prophet.
It's easy for her to say, andwhat I think is a constant theme
(21:22):
is getting to this place isit's?
It takes a level of surrender.
Can you talk about that?
Like?
Can you tell people how maybesurrender has played a role in
where you are today?
Cassandra Williams (21:37):
Absolutely Surrender.
That's the big word, surrender.
And I didn't surrender.
Well, I was a fighter rememberso if I didn't want to do it.
I didn't want to do it even whenit came to the things of God.
As far as leadership and thingslike that, I liked being in the
(21:57):
back, behind the corner.
So when he said, no, now it'stime for you to take center
stage, I was reluctant, veryreluctant, and so I had to
surrender to his plan, to hisleading, his guiding.
And even when life gets hard,there's another level of
(22:20):
surrender.
As an author, there was a levelof surrender to tell this story
, to write it.
As a speaker, there's a levelof surrender like you really
want me to tell that out loud onnational platforms, and so
there's that level of surrenderthat you have to come to where
(22:41):
it's not my will but your willbe done, and we have to do it on
an ongoing basis.
It's not a one and done.
There's another level ofsurrender.
Another level of surrenderEvery time he brings me into a
new place or space, becausewe'll spend time building
certain things, we'll get goodat leading in this lane, but
(23:03):
when God says pivot, that's asurrender.
You have to walk away from thisthing that you have put time,
sweat, energy into and dosomething completely different,
and that's not an easy place toget to.
And if you're not again leadingfrom within, if you're not
(23:27):
rooted and grounded and surewithin yourself, that surrender
is going to be hard.
Because when people come andthey say, but no, you're
supposed to be doing this and welove how you do this and oh my
God, but you know you're hearingGod say say, walk away and do
(23:47):
something different, can yousurrender?
Can you take that breath and belike I'm so sorry, I am no
longer going to be able to dothis, and turn and follow what
he is telling you to do, even ifit scares you?
(24:10):
Because as leaders, sometimespeople feel like when you're in
leadership, a lot of times theyfeel like you don't feel.
We feel all of those emotionsbut that certainty of leading
from the inside, your values,your core values, your
principles, all of those things.
(24:30):
It helps you be able to say Idon't know what's over there,
but I know I'm supposed to go,I'm supposed to be doing this,
and we start flowing in thatpassion, that purpose, that
leading that God is doing, evenif it's uncomfortable.
Belinda Gaston (24:54):
Yeah, that's so good.
So, Cassandra, what are yourtips for surrender?
Give our listeners one or twopieces of advice on how to begin
, the main thing is understandyour why.
Cassandra Williams (25:10):
of advice on how to begin, the main thing is
understand your why.
So when you have that pushbackor that zeal to do why?
So for me, if I have a hard noon something, I ask myself why
can't I, why don't I want to dothat?
Or why do I want to do that?
And, like I said, for my faith,my faith is my center.
So if God is not the firstthing, we got to look a little
(25:30):
deeper, because it's very hardto surrender your will to
something you don't understandall the time.
So if you don't understand yourwhy, you don't understand what
you've been called to do.
There are certain things thatwhen god says, do this, I
(25:51):
automatically I have to get pastmy will because some of us have
a very strong.
I don't want to, and so you gotto know that about yourself
because I don't want to keep youfrom surrender.
Yeah, I don't want to do that.
Check your vows.
(26:11):
Some things we have said aslittle hurt children, little
hurt young adults.
We said I will never do X, yand Z.
I'm never going to let anybodydo that to me again.
I'm never going to let anybodydo that to me again.
I'm never going to let anybodyinto my heart, I'm never going
to go out and be on publicdisplay because something
(26:35):
happened.
And now when God says, yeah, Iwant you to do a podcast, I want
you to do a podcast, you have avery strong root in there of I
am never going to.
That will keep you fromsurrender.
(26:56):
Because your mind, your will,your emotions, that soulish part
of you remembers the last timeyou tried to speak in public or
be on public display, peoplelaughed at you.
It didn't work.
You were disappointed, you feltlet down.
(27:19):
Nobody showed up.
So now you have to go back andpluck up that value you made
that I won't ever in order toget to that authentic place,
(27:40):
that real place of surrenderthat has action behind it.
Because sometimes we say wesurrender yes, lord, we didn't
mean it, we didn't, we just saidit.
It's not good in the moment,but the authentic surrender has
(28:01):
movement behind it, whether itbe prayer to get full
instructions it, whether it beprayer to get full instructions
to understand, be still enoughto understand the why behind
what we're doing.
Not that God has to tell youwhy.
Like I need to know right, Ineed to know A to Z but to
(28:24):
understand there's purposebehind this, I have to do it.
So an example, just biblicalexample Jesus said when he was
talking to the woman, when he'stalking to his disciples, he
said I have need to go throughSamaria.
Y'all go get food, go do otherstuff.
(28:47):
I have need to go throughSamaria.
Y'all go get food, go do otherstuff.
I have need to go throughSamaria.
He didn't tell them why he wasgoing, he just said I have need.
But he had an assignment whenhe got there With the woman at
the well.
So and so there are times wherewe are just like Jesus, that we
(29:08):
are on assignment and he'ssaying I have need for you to go
and we have to surrenderbecause the Jews and the
Samaritans weren't friends.
That could have went a wholeanother way, but he surrendered
to the will of the father tomeet this woman in this.
(29:29):
That could have went a wholenother way, but he surrendered
to the will of the father tomeet this woman in this place
that was waiting and it changed.
Not only did it change her life, but it changed the whole city.
Belinda Gaston (29:43):
You said authentic surrender has movement
behind it.
I feel like that's a challengefor us.
It's easier to say yes than tosay yes and move, because we can
say yes and we can create aplan in our heads, we can
journal about it, we can prayabout it, we can tell our
(30:10):
friends about it and neveractually move.
So I'm curious, because you havethis all together, Cassandra.
I mean you got it all together.
Can you give us an example, ifyou're comfortable?
Can you give us an example of amoment where you had to trust
God deeply with your leadershipin whatever area he told you to
(30:30):
do, even when it didn't makesense?
Cassandra Williams (30:33):
Oh, my goodness, I'll say it's being a
wife, as a wife, and coming offof a hard season in my marriage
where we were at a place wherewe didn't grow together.
Okay, we both had our ownthings.
My husband is a truck driver,so we fell into life, we had a
(30:57):
son, we had all of the thingsgoing on, and it was like we
were two ships passing in thenight and God asked me a
question.
He said do you want yourmarriage?
I said yeah, I want my marriage, but I don't want this.
This wasn't him talking to myhusband.
This is him talking to me.
(31:18):
Wife leader in the house.
Put my hand on the door.
I said I want my marriage, butI don't want this.
I don't want what we're livingin right now.
And so I had to surrender.
And so when it got hard, I hadto remember what I said I want
this.
Today I'm like, ooh, today Idon't know, god, I don't know.
(31:40):
And so guess what I would haveto do.
I would have to surrender again, because what was happening was
God was doing this work in meand my flesh was rising up and
saying I don't like it, I don'twant to go through the process,
I don't like this tearing downin order to build up.
I don't like any of it.
I don't really get what you'redoing.
I know what you said, but Ihaven't seen any of that,
(32:06):
because 20 years ago prior, wehad gotten a word.
Your marriage is going to be anexample to many.
Okay, so here we are, two shipspassing in the night.
I surrender to the processDaily, surrender to the process
(32:26):
Daily.
And once we got to a place ofbeing good, I'm like we're here
On our 20th wedding anniversary.
He said now I want you to goback and talk to wives.
Excuse me, sir, do you knowwhat I just walked through?
(32:49):
Do you know what I'm barelyholding on here?
This was after therapy.
I love Jesus and therapy, lovemy therapist.
Yes, yes, this was on the otherside of that.
And he says now.
He said a wise woman builds herhouse, but a foolish one tears
(33:12):
it down with her hands.
I said yeah.
He said a wise wife builds herhouse, but a foolish one will
tear it down with her hands.
He said now go get.
I want you to be what youdidn't have.
He said now go give.
I want you to be what youdidn't have.
Create this space that when youwalk through that season you
(33:35):
did not have.
I didn't feel like I had a safespace to unload, to unpack to.
So here's another level ofsurrender to allow people to
come in and I tell my story sonobody else have to.
The enemy will never be able toput it on blast because I tell
it, because it's like, no,you're not going to, I'm not
(34:01):
going to live in bondage, I'mnot going to live under this
whole auspice of as I'm leading.
If so and so, comes and sits inthe room that I'm like, give me
a kiss because they knowsomething on me.
Belinda Gaston (34:15):
No.
Cassandra Williams (34:17):
Tell it before anybody else can tell.
But I had to surrender to thatbecause I like to keep all of my
stuff close to the vest,because I was a people pleaser,
I performed.
I wanted to keep all of mystuff close to the vest because
I was a people pleaser, Iperformed, I wanted to present
this image so they wouldn'treally see what was going on
(34:38):
underneath.
But I had to surrender to God.
And it's still daily.
I'm surrendering, even in thatplace, to be the best wife, wise
wife that I can be, to myhusband, not just a husband, not
(34:59):
just any man, but to my husband.
So I have to surrender.
I have to die to myself.
Surrender.
I have to die to myself.
What I thought it would looklike.
I had to surrender that inorder for it to become what it
was supposed to be.
Belinda Gaston (35:18):
So what advice would you give a woman who feels
tension or torn betweensurrender or being submitted
whatever word we want to use intheir relationship with their
spouse and standing fully intheir leadership roles?
I mean really all ofleadership's kind of it all
(35:39):
starts at home.
Right, it starts at home.
What one piece of advice wouldyou give to a woman standing in
that crossroads of I don't knowif I can surrender to his
leadership Does?
Cassandra Williams (35:52):
he know who.
Belinda Gaston (35:53):
I am, I'm a leader.
Cassandra Williams (35:55):
But here's the thing he needs the authentic
version of you.
My husband needs the authenticversion of me.
So if I show up any kind of way, I am a leader and so I show up
as such.
But my leading does not crushhim, it doesn't devalue him, it
(36:22):
does not make him feel any lessthan, if anything, it allows him
to be the best version ofhimself, because now he's not
having to carry a load that he'snot meant to carry either.
So if you, showing up as yourauthentic self, surrendered in
that place which means the CEO,guess what you don't have to be
(36:45):
the same way you are in theboardroom as you are in your
household, but you can be justas you may bring that skill set
in the way that things aremanaged.
But it does not mean you get tolord over your husband and just
like on the opposite end ofthat spectrum with a the man, he
(37:09):
might be the CEO, he might bethe head man and that all of
these things.
When he's in, you know at work,but when he comes home he can
still wash dishes.
It's that level.
Submission does not meansubmission.
Submission does not meanSubmission.
And surrender Does not meanthat you're a doormat.
(37:32):
It doesn't mean you're weak.
It takes strength.
It takes a level of strength Tosurrender.
It takes a level of strength Tohush, be quiet when you want to
speak.
But a real leader can listen,digest the information and
(37:59):
figure out how to best move usforward as a win-win, not my way
or the highway as a win-win,not my way or the highway.
Belinda Gaston (38:11):
Wow, this is such a great conversation and I
feel like you're leading me to awhole marriage series for
leaders.
So, listeners, we may haveCassandra back.
Thank you so much for yourtransparency.
I wanna give you an opportunityto give some final thoughts.
What would you like to leaveour listeners with as a final
thought today?
Cassandra Williams (38:35):
My final thought would be this Love
yourself unapologetically.
Everything starts with that,because if you're not, if you
don't love yourself and you'retrying to give it to everybody
else, it's not going to work,not long term.
(38:57):
So to show up as an authenticleader that's lit, that's
leading from the inside, don'tbe afraid to do your work, do
that internal work.
I know we made it out, you madeit out.
I know it's over, it's done,but you're still carrying the
residue.
You're still carrying whatwoulda, coulda, shoulda.
(39:19):
You've locked it away in acloset, swept it under the rug.
Listen, things that are lockedin closets have a way of falling
out.
Things that are swept under therug have a tendency to trip you
up the higher you go.
So take the time now to reallylook at and it's something that
(39:40):
you can do on a daily, weekly,monthly, quarterly basis, to be
like let me check myself, let mecheck my heart, let me check my
heart, let me check myresponses.
Why did I act like that?
Why am I doing that?
Because it may mean thatthere's some things, another
layer of healing that needs totake place that you didn't even
(40:02):
realize was there.
That's the thing.
A lot of things we don't evenknow they're there until they
start showing up, and then we'reso quick to move past them.
I encourage you not to movepast things too quickly, but be
able to be present in yourprocess and take the time you
(40:23):
need so that you can lead well.
Belinda Gaston (40:33):
So, listeners, there is so much in this
conversation.
I know if you are listening.
You are wondering now, okay, Iwant to connect with Cassandra,
I want to be able to follow upwith some of the things that she
said.
And so, Cassandra, if you couldtell us first how to connect
with you, but also, what are youworking on these days?
What's going on in the life ofCassandra?
(40:56):
Absolutely.
Cassandra Williams (40:57):
You can reach me at
wwwthecassandrawilliamscom.
That is my website and what Iam working on right now is a
surrender.
I am crossing over into that,really embracing that leadership
space.
I have a new book out, achildren's book, which is called
(41:17):
Lead Anyway, layla, which iswritten for our little
disruptors, those little girlsthat are going into elementary
school and middle school thatare having to make the decision
to be brave, to stand in theirauthenticity, no matter.
You know they may have physicalailments or different things
(41:39):
that may be going on, but theycan still lead.
That does not discount them,but it helps them to lead.
And then for the us, moreseasoned I ain't going to say
call us older, you know seasonedpeople I have a new book that's
coming out that's called Leadwith the Limp and that is
(42:00):
helping people leadunapologetically with those
things that they want to hide.
You may have had a divorce, youmay actually physically, like
myself, walk with a limp andbeen praying and saying God, god
, you've healed me, youdelivered me, you did all of
these things, but I'm stillwalking with this limp.
And he says can you lead withthat anyway?
(42:21):
Can you be like Jacob whowrestled with me, got the
blessing but limped away.
Can you see it as a sign thatyou've been with me and so I've
had to embrace that and begin tolead from that place with that,
to be like, yeah, I may walk alittle different, but I'm still
(42:44):
a leader and called by God,instead of hiding, not wanting
anybody to see it?
So for those of you that hadmay have had a divorce, had a
baby outside of wedlock justdifferent things may have found
yourself behind you know,incarcerated, and now you're
like if anybody knew that, Ican't do it because I'm
(43:05):
discounted, I'm misunderstood.
No-transcript.
Belinda Gaston (43:35):
Thank you so much, and so for our listeners,
we will place I'll place all ofthis information in the show
notes.
I love Layla and the wholepersona of Layla, so if I will
have the information aboutCassandra's website, about Lead
Any Anyway, layla, thechildren's book, as well as any
information that Cassandrashared about leading with a limp
, I love that, and so we'll haveall of that in the show's notes
(43:56):
.
Listen, I encourage you, ifthis episode resonated with you,
to use this as a sign toconnect.
You hear me say this all thetime that we are not meant to
lead alone.
I feel strongly about that, andyou know from previous episodes
that I've even talked about whywe get in these positions where
(44:17):
we're leading in isolation whenwe shouldn't but get the help
that you need, and I thinkthere's been enough resources
shared on this show that you canfind your fit.
And so if this made your heartflutter, if it made you think,
please do yourself a favor andconnect with Cassandra.
Cassandra, thank you so muchfor being authentically
(44:40):
unapologetically you.
I'm glad I got you in thisseason.
It has, as my grandmother wouldsay, been a plumb pleasing
pleasure speaking with you.
Cassandra Williams (44:50):
You as well.
Thank you for having me today.
Belinda Gaston (44:53):
And to our listeners.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Graced to Lead podcast.
I don't take your listeninglightly, as always.
Remember to share this podcast.
You know we're on all of theplatforms, so there's ways for
you to share, like and providepositive feedback.
But also, if you're listeningon Buzzsprout I can't remember
if you can do this on Apple ornot you can actually send me a
(45:15):
message directly.
So if you click on the buttonthat says send a message, I
actually get those on my phoneand I will respond.
And so, for those of you whosent them, thank you, but please
stay in touch.
You can get information aboutme and the Graced to Lead
podcast on BelindaGastoncom and,as always, I'm grateful for you
tuning in so until we meet eachother again next week, remember
(45:38):
, you are indeed Graced to Lead.
Bye-bye.
Welcome to the Graced to Lead podcast.
I'm Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen, I'm excited today
about our guest, CassandraWilliams.
Before I have her come on, Ineed to tell you about her y'all
.
She is a wife, a mother, anauthor, a speaker and a
certified professional life andempowerment coach.
(00:29):
Her life and leadership aremarked by authenticity, wisdom
and a willingness to embracewhat many would rather hide.
It's one of the things I loveabout her is that she is so
transparent.
She specializes in emotionalhealing, identity restoration
and strategic coaching for highfunctioning women who look
(00:51):
successful on the outside butare struggling silently within.
Can anyone relate to that?
Listen, she was bornprematurely to a teenage mother
who chose courage overconvenience, and she's learned
how to fight With that sametenacity.
She brings to every woman shewalks with the power and
(01:12):
encouragement that they need inorder to help them.
She doesn't just coach y'all,she builds women, and not from a
place of perfection either, butfrom a deep place of process
and tested faith.
Listen, would you do me a favorand welcome Cassandra Williams
(01:32):
to the show?
Welcome, Cassandra.
Cassandra Williams (01:36):
Thank you so much for having me so good to
be here today.
Belinda Gaston (01:40):
Listen, I am excited, and, for those of you
who are listening, I just wantyou to know that Cassandra and I
know each other.
Listen, she is one of myfavorite people and so I'm
excited to have her on.
And, Cassandra, I think we wantto start.
So, first, I am really struckby similarities in our stories.
We're both born prematurely toteenage moms, we both help women
(02:02):
in places that are hard, and Ithink we both have similar
levels of transparency.
Look, we tell it how it is.
And so I really want to kind ofstart there, like your why, why
is it that you've chosen thispath for your profession, to
coach women and to help them?
(02:23):
Can you tell us a little bitabout the why for you, the heart
behind your work, and why youdo what you do?
Cassandra Williams (02:32):
Yeah, I, I want everything to matter.
That was, that was my thing,for God.
If I have to walk through it, Iwant it to matter.
I need to be able to pour itinto someone else, and coaching
isn't necessarily what I do.
It's who I am.
Naturally, those are mygiftings.
(02:54):
I've been doing it all of mylife, but it was once I found
that coaching terminology, thatpassion met purpose, and I
literally was like this is whatI was born to do, and so I love
being able to walk peoplethrough things.
My husband asked me one time hesaid do you want to go around
(03:15):
it, you want to go over it or doyou want to go through it?
And I instinctively said I'llgo through it, just in order to
blaze a trail for someone else.
Belinda Gaston (03:27):
Wow, so you really feel this thing,
Cassandra, it's not just words.
You know there's a coach onevery corner, right.
So I love that.
You said that coaching is notwhat you do, it's who you are,
and I can attest to that.
I think the first time we met,I think we were at a event it
was some event that someone hadand I remember being in your
presence and just feeling that,even in the I don't remember
(03:50):
exactly our conversation, but Ido remember feeling like you
were kind of gently guiding mewithout even knowing me, and so
I love that.
And so I want to talk a littlebit about seasons, because on
this show we've talked, wereally do have women who lead,
and some of the women who listenare leading from places where
(04:10):
they're in corporate spaces,where they're in ministry spaces
.
Some are entrepreneurs.
I have a growing group of stayat home moms who may have
hobbies, interests, but theirprimary focus is leading in
their homes.
And so I want to talk a littlebit about what season this is
(04:31):
for you, because I know kind ofthe backstory.
I know that you're married, Iknow that you're a mom and I
know that you're a leader, andwe all have these seasons.
How would you describe theseason that you're in right now?
Cassandra Williams (04:46):
My season right now is unapologetic.
I'm in that unapologetically meseason of that understanding
the authentic version of myselfand allowing her to show up.
Not the mom, not the CEO, notthe prophet, not the pastor,
(05:15):
just all of me as one wholeindividual person.
Because sometimes we can be allof those things and all of
those seasons and all of thoseplaces and we're not showing up
as our authentic selves.
So the season for me now isunapologetic.
It's just me, just me.
Belinda Gaston (05:38):
Cassandra, so we talk about this all the time Be
authentically you.
I love that you're unapologetic, no excuses for who you are, no
apologies for who you are.
But can we talk about how youget there?
Because I think that so I think, when you become a woman of a
certain age, like myself, it'seasier to kind of walk in this.
(06:01):
But I believe that you can be ayounger woman, you know, you
can be a leader, an emergingleader, you can be a leader in
your 30s, in your 20s, in your40s, and still walk in this
authentic, unapologetic state.
But the question is how do youget there?
(06:21):
How do you get from this tothis place?
Cassandra?
What would you say to ourlisteners who are like I want to
do that.
How do I get there?
What would you say to them?
Cassandra Williams (06:31):
It starts with self-awareness being okay
with the skin you're in, beingokay with your values, your
skill sets, just how you weremade as a woman of faith, god
says you were fearfully andwonderfully made.
I knew you before you were evenborn, right.
But we get here, life happensand we become chameleons.
(06:56):
We become whatever people havecalled us or told us we were
supposed to be.
So in order for you to walk inthat authentic place, you have
to go back to the originaldesign that God created and many
of us you know you can do that.
That's one of the things that Ihave a strong desire to do now
(07:16):
is to get those little girlswhile they're in elementary
school and middle school and letthem know it is okay to be you
know, hattie Chatterbox, it'sokay because that's probably
part of your gifting that'sgoing to be used later on in
life.
But many of us were told hush,go, sit down, children are seen
(07:37):
and not heard, and we carriedthat throughout our life.
And so then we have to gothrough those seasons of
unpacking that and for the verything that we hid behind or were
told, that's the very thing Godis saying yeah, I want to use
that.
So, yeah, I need you to talk,but I was muted, yeah, and so we
(08:02):
have to come off mute, we haveto be okay with that.
So to in order to be, to getinto that place, and it doesn't
matter, it doesn't have to be in.
You know, thirties, forties Forme it was like 40, and it's been
a journey to get here at 51.
So it's not overnight, but youcan start wherever you are right
(08:22):
now in this moment and justembrace you, all of you, the
family that you grew up in, thatyou were born into.
That was on purpose for purpose.
It wasn't a mistake, it hadvalue.
It had value Because, when Ilook back over my life, had I
(08:54):
not been born to that family,had I not went to that school,
had I not married that man, hadI not went through those
circumstances, I would not bewho I am today.
All of those things were partof the point.
I had choices to make now, butthere was Graced, right Graced
to leave.
There was Graced in there formy decisions and my choices,
that God still is able to usethem.
That's why I was a teenagerwhen I asked, when I told God,
(09:18):
I'll go through this willinglyif you'll use it for your glory
if you'll use it for your glory.
Belinda Gaston (09:30):
And so I'm pausing intentionally here,
because that's a powerfulstatement to think about.
It really is a change inperspective, almost right.
It's instead of thinking aboutall the things that happened to
me, or all the things I didn'thave, or all the things I wish
were different, understandingthat each part, every experience
(09:54):
, every position, every location, everything, it all matters.
It all matters, and so I'd likefor you to talk about that.
If I'm a leader and I'm in theplace where I'm not walking
authentically orunapologetically, that I've
handled, you know, not reallypretending, but hiding certain
(10:18):
things so that I can lead well,how do you think not being in
the place of this unapologeticspace or season you're in, how
do you think that impactsleadership?
Cassandra Williams (10:32):
It limits how we lead, because I've always
been a leader.
Now, sometimes I tried to leadfrom the back.
I was leading as a greatsupport system.
Lead from the back I wasleading as a great support
system.
Sometimes the most insecurepeople are the people with the
biggest titles.
The CEO may lead the way thatthey do.
(10:56):
They're very controlling in theway they micromanage and all of
those things.
That may be because there's aninsecure person inside of there
that they're masking.
That may be because there's aninsecure person inside of there
that they're masking thatthey're hiding.
So outwardly they have all ofthis power, this control
(11:16):
position applause, accolades theimage, but inside they're, you
know, silently waiting forsomebody to validate her, or a
young man waiting for someone tocome and get them and say
(11:37):
you're okay that they moved onphysically in age, but
emotionally and so when certainthings happen, that little child
manifests, and so that's whyyou're looking at them and
you're like, wait, whoa, what isthat?
(11:58):
It's almost like they'rethrowing a temper tantrum and
you're like you're 40, 50, 60years old and you're acting 16,
17, 10.
And that's where that comesfrom is because inside we're one
way, outside we look acompletely different way, and
(12:19):
sometimes that's how we miss thebiggest opportunities that God
gives us is because we will lookat the position and never look
deeper to see a wounded personcrying out for him.
Belinda Gaston (12:36):
That's so good.
So not being in the place whereyou're authentic is limiting,
and you're saying that some ofthe signs could be things like
micromanaging or not being ableto control your emotions.
Are there other signs that youmay not be walking in the place
(12:56):
of authenticity in yourleadership, not being able to
make decisions, it's whatevereverybody else wants to do.
Cassandra Williams (13:04):
Being able to make decisions, it's whatever
everybody else wants to do.
And so now we get nothing done,because we're always doing what
everybody wants to do, or it'slast minute because you're
afraid of the confrontation.
You don't want conflict, you'renot versed in that conflict.
Resolution you want to run, butin some cases, resolution you
(13:29):
want to run, but in some casesyou have to stand and be like
okay, this is what we're goingto do and steer the ship forward
.
Um, some of the other things isthat we may be those people that
procrastinate.
Procrastination is another one,that you wait to the last
minute to do it, so I have to doit, instead of doing proper
planning.
Yes, it still ends up great,but look at all the strengths
(13:55):
that happen in that 24-hourperiod to make it happen.
So those are just a few things.
And that's not just incorporate America, that's even
in your household, as a wife, asa mom, because for all of you
out there that are housewives,you're the real MVP.
(14:18):
Okay, because you are keepingthat household moving, and
sometimes that place ofleadership is minimized instead
of applauded.
Belinda Gaston (14:31):
I'm so glad you said that, because I think that
a lot of times, leaders, theyconsider themselves leaders
because they have a particulartitle or a particular job
function, a particular title ora particular job function.
And more and more, as I talkwith some of the listeners of
this show, I realized that thatspace of people who are home
(14:52):
managers, who are stay-at-homemoms whether they are or, in the
case of home managers,sometimes they are housewives
they don't have children, butthey have to manage the affairs
of their household, and that isa level of leadership, and so
I'm glad you said that.
And so this goes to thisphilosophy that I've noticed
about you of this leading fromthe inside.
(15:13):
It really is.
I think if someone were to askme, tell me about Cassandra and
her coaching approach or hercoaching philosophy, based on
what I know about you, I wouldsay that that is part of your
philosophy is leading from theinside out, and so can you talk
about a little bit about that?
Cassandra Williams (15:35):
Leading from the inside out is.
Take the movie Inside Out,where these people have all
these little people, theiremotions right.
They're running around on theinside of them.
Literally, that's the way weare.
We have all of these thingsrunning around on the inside.
So a lot of times when you showup, you're poised, you got on
(15:58):
the right suit, you got on theright dress, the right outfit
and you look the part.
By all means you're killing.
But on the inside, all thoselittle people are running around
screaming, and so we have tolearn to get those people
settled, so that not only areyou looking the part, you are
(16:25):
the part, because when we talkabout well, we don't like to
talk about it, but we're goingto talk about it a little bit
today.
Imposter syndrome, that's whereyou're presenting something that
you don't even believe yourself.
You're presenting this toeverybody else, but inside you
feel like I don't even know whatI'm doing, even though
(16:47):
everybody else is saying you'redoing a great job.
And you go home, lay your headon the pillow and you cry
yourself to sleep, because onthe inside, love comes from the
inside out.
Confidence comes from theinside out.
Confidence comes from theinside out.
(17:07):
Your self-worth comes from theinside out, because otherwise it
can be all around you and youwon't feel it.
You can't receive it.
You'll be longing for somethingthat's right there and you
can't even embrace it to bringit because on the inside.
(17:29):
And so that's why I do a lot ofinside work so that when you do
show up in circles, in spaces,even if they don't value who you
are, you value yourself and youdon't answer to any and
everything.
You don't receive any andeverything that you understand
(17:52):
what you've been called to doand you show up in that space
just like that and listen.
Sometimes they receive it,sometimes they don't.
If it's not, the worst is shakethe dust off your feet, and
that's a hard thing to do ifyou're not okay with it.
Belinda Gaston (18:15):
To understand it's not me, it's them you
mentioned that the word says toshake the dust off your feet,
and so I'm assuming that faithplays a part in how you lead and
what you do.
So can you talk about how yourfaith has shaped your coaching
(18:41):
business?
I know you're an author, Ibelieve.
Now We'll talk about that in aminute.
You have your own podcast, likeyou're doing a lot of things.
How does your faith impact howyou lead in those spaces, even
as a wife and a mom?
Cassandra Williams (19:01):
My faith is the center of it all.
It's like air to me.
It's the air that I breathe,because without it I would be a
(19:25):
mess Pretty little mess, but amess nonetheless.
I'm shy or I can't go do what Ineed to do.
It just means I recharge bymyself.
So I'm okay in my house, I'mgood so, but there are times
where my faith, the instructionsfrom God, mandates that I have
(19:50):
to go outside.
I have to be present for hisdaughters, and I love just being
an extension in the earth,because what I get to do is I
get to really sometimes bringGod back into places that he's
been out of for a season.
Belinda Gaston (20:16):
So that is part of why Graced to Lead exists
this last statement that youmade about bringing God into
places where he hasn't existedin some time and I
wholeheartedly believe which iswhy I'm doing this, because
there really is not income oranything attached to this but I
believe that part of the purposeI have through Graced to Lead
(20:40):
and all the things that Gracedto Lead is attached to, is to
remind people of their position.
You are in the position ofleadership, not by accident as
you said, it all matters butbecause you have an opportunity
to be a reflection of God.
Sometimes we are the only Godthat people see how we relate to
(21:01):
people, how we lead, how wemake decisions, and so I am so
glad that you said that, and soI think you know.
When we talk about faith, a lotof times people hear oh well,
that's just because you knowCassandra, she's a minister,
she's a prophet.
It's easy for her to say, andwhat I think is a constant theme
(21:22):
is getting to this place isit's?
It takes a level of surrender.
Can you talk about that?
Like?
Can you tell people how maybesurrender has played a role in
where you are today?
Cassandra Williams (21:37):
Absolutely Surrender.
That's the big word, surrender.
And I didn't surrender.
Well, I was a fighter rememberso if I didn't want to do it.
I didn't want to do it even whenit came to the things of God.
As far as leadership and thingslike that, I liked being in the
(21:57):
back, behind the corner.
So when he said, no, now it'stime for you to take center
stage, I was reluctant, veryreluctant, and so I had to
surrender to his plan, to hisleading, his guiding.
And even when life gets hard,there's another level of
(22:20):
surrender.
As an author, there was a levelof surrender to tell this story
, to write it.
As a speaker, there's a levelof surrender like you really
want me to tell that out loud onnational platforms, and so
there's that level of surrenderthat you have to come to where
(22:41):
it's not my will but your willbe done, and we have to do it on
an ongoing basis.
It's not a one and done.
There's another level ofsurrender.
Another level of surrenderEvery time he brings me into a
new place or space, becausewe'll spend time building
certain things, we'll get goodat leading in this lane, but
(23:03):
when God says pivot, that's asurrender.
You have to walk away from thisthing that you have put time,
sweat, energy into and dosomething completely different,
and that's not an easy place toget to.
And if you're not again leadingfrom within, if you're not
(23:27):
rooted and grounded and surewithin yourself, that surrender
is going to be hard.
Because when people come andthey say, but no, you're
supposed to be doing this and welove how you do this and oh my
God, but you know you're hearingGod say say, walk away and do
(23:47):
something different, can yousurrender?
Can you take that breath and belike I'm so sorry, I am no
longer going to be able to dothis, and turn and follow what
he is telling you to do, even ifit scares you?
(24:10):
Because as leaders, sometimespeople feel like when you're in
leadership, a lot of times theyfeel like you don't feel.
We feel all of those emotionsbut that certainty of leading
from the inside, your values,your core values, your
principles, all of those things.
(24:30):
It helps you be able to say Idon't know what's over there,
but I know I'm supposed to go,I'm supposed to be doing this,
and we start flowing in thatpassion, that purpose, that
leading that God is doing, evenif it's uncomfortable.
Belinda Gaston (24:54):
Yeah, that's so good.
So, Cassandra, what are yourtips for surrender?
Give our listeners one or twopieces of advice on how to begin
, the main thing is understandyour why.
Cassandra Williams (25:10):
of advice on how to begin, the main thing is
understand your why.
So when you have that pushbackor that zeal to do why?
So for me, if I have a hard noon something, I ask myself why
can't I, why don't I want to dothat?
Or why do I want to do that?
And, like I said, for my faith,my faith is my center.
So if God is not the firstthing, we got to look a little
(25:30):
deeper, because it's very hardto surrender your will to
something you don't understandall the time.
So if you don't understand yourwhy, you don't understand what
you've been called to do.
There are certain things thatwhen god says, do this, I
(25:51):
automatically I have to get pastmy will because some of us have
a very strong.
I don't want to, and so you gotto know that about yourself
because I don't want to keep youfrom surrender.
Yeah, I don't want to do that.
Check your vows.
(26:11):
Some things we have said aslittle hurt children, little
hurt young adults.
We said I will never do X, yand Z.
I'm never going to let anybodydo that to me again.
I'm never going to let anybodydo that to me again.
I'm never going to let anybodyinto my heart, I'm never going
to go out and be on publicdisplay because something
(26:35):
happened.
And now when God says, yeah, Iwant you to do a podcast, I want
you to do a podcast, you have avery strong root in there of I
am never going to.
That will keep you fromsurrender.
(26:56):
Because your mind, your will,your emotions, that soulish part
of you remembers the last timeyou tried to speak in public or
be on public display, peoplelaughed at you.
It didn't work.
You were disappointed, you feltlet down.
(27:19):
Nobody showed up.
So now you have to go back andpluck up that value you made
that I won't ever in order toget to that authentic place,
(27:40):
that real place of surrenderthat has action behind it.
Because sometimes we say wesurrender yes, lord, we didn't
mean it, we didn't, we just saidit.
It's not good in the moment,but the authentic surrender has
(28:01):
movement behind it, whether itbe prayer to get full
instructions it, whether it beprayer to get full instructions
to understand, be still enoughto understand the why behind
what we're doing.
Not that God has to tell youwhy.
Like I need to know right, Ineed to know A to Z but to
(28:24):
understand there's purposebehind this, I have to do it.
So an example, just biblicalexample Jesus said when he was
talking to the woman, when he'stalking to his disciples, he
said I have need to go throughSamaria.
Y'all go get food, go do otherstuff.
(28:47):
I have need to go throughSamaria.
Y'all go get food, go do otherstuff.
I have need to go throughSamaria.
He didn't tell them why he wasgoing, he just said I have need.
But he had an assignment whenhe got there With the woman at
the well.
So and so there are times wherewe are just like Jesus, that we
(29:08):
are on assignment and he'ssaying I have need for you to go
and we have to surrenderbecause the Jews and the
Samaritans weren't friends.
That could have went a wholeanother way, but he surrendered
to the will of the father tomeet this woman in this.
(29:29):
That could have went a wholenother way, but he surrendered
to the will of the father tomeet this woman in this place
that was waiting and it changed.
Not only did it change her life, but it changed the whole city.
Belinda Gaston (29:43):
You said authentic surrender has movement
behind it.
I feel like that's a challengefor us.
It's easier to say yes than tosay yes and move, because we can
say yes and we can create aplan in our heads, we can
journal about it, we can prayabout it, we can tell our
(30:10):
friends about it and neveractually move.
So I'm curious, because you havethis all together, Cassandra.
I mean you got it all together.
Can you give us an example, ifyou're comfortable?
Can you give us an example of amoment where you had to trust
God deeply with your leadershipin whatever area he told you to
(30:30):
do, even when it didn't makesense?
Cassandra Williams (30:33):
Oh, my goodness, I'll say it's being a
wife, as a wife, and coming offof a hard season in my marriage
where we were at a place wherewe didn't grow together.
Okay, we both had our ownthings.
My husband is a truck driver,so we fell into life, we had a
(30:57):
son, we had all of the thingsgoing on, and it was like we
were two ships passing in thenight and God asked me a
question.
He said do you want yourmarriage?
I said yeah, I want my marriage, but I don't want this.
This wasn't him talking to myhusband.
This is him talking to me.
(31:18):
Wife leader in the house.
Put my hand on the door.
I said I want my marriage, butI don't want this.
I don't want what we're livingin right now.
And so I had to surrender.
And so when it got hard, I hadto remember what I said I want
this.
Today I'm like, ooh, today Idon't know, god, I don't know.
(31:40):
And so guess what I would haveto do.
I would have to surrender again, because what was happening was
God was doing this work in meand my flesh was rising up and
saying I don't like it, I don'twant to go through the process,
I don't like this tearing downin order to build up.
I don't like any of it.
I don't really get what you'redoing.
I know what you said, but Ihaven't seen any of that,
(32:06):
because 20 years ago prior, wehad gotten a word.
Your marriage is going to be anexample to many.
Okay, so here we are, two shipspassing in the night.
I surrender to the processDaily, surrender to the process
(32:26):
Daily.
And once we got to a place ofbeing good, I'm like we're here
On our 20th wedding anniversary.
He said now I want you to goback and talk to wives.
Excuse me, sir, do you knowwhat I just walked through?
(32:49):
Do you know what I'm barelyholding on here?
This was after therapy.
I love Jesus and therapy, lovemy therapist.
Yes, yes, this was on the otherside of that.
And he says now.
He said a wise woman builds herhouse, but a foolish one tears
(33:12):
it down with her hands.
I said yeah.
He said a wise wife builds herhouse, but a foolish one will
tear it down with her hands.
He said now go get.
I want you to be what youdidn't have.
He said now go give.
I want you to be what youdidn't have.
Create this space that when youwalk through that season you
(33:35):
did not have.
I didn't feel like I had a safespace to unload, to unpack to.
So here's another level ofsurrender to allow people to
come in and I tell my story sonobody else have to.
The enemy will never be able toput it on blast because I tell
it, because it's like, no,you're not going to, I'm not
(34:01):
going to live in bondage, I'mnot going to live under this
whole auspice of as I'm leading.
If so and so, comes and sits inthe room that I'm like, give me
a kiss because they knowsomething on me.
Belinda Gaston (34:15):
No.
Cassandra Williams (34:17):
Tell it before anybody else can tell.
But I had to surrender to thatbecause I like to keep all of my
stuff close to the vest,because I was a people pleaser,
I performed.
I wanted to keep all of mystuff close to the vest because
I was a people pleaser, Iperformed, I wanted to present
this image so they wouldn'treally see what was going on
(34:38):
underneath.
But I had to surrender to God.
And it's still daily.
I'm surrendering, even in thatplace, to be the best wife, wise
wife that I can be, to myhusband, not just a husband, not
(34:59):
just any man, but to my husband.
So I have to surrender.
I have to die to myself.
Surrender.
I have to die to myself.
What I thought it would looklike.
I had to surrender that inorder for it to become what it
was supposed to be.
Belinda Gaston (35:18):
So what advice would you give a woman who feels
tension or torn betweensurrender or being submitted
whatever word we want to use intheir relationship with their
spouse and standing fully intheir leadership roles?
I mean really all ofleadership's kind of it all
(35:39):
starts at home.
Right, it starts at home.
What one piece of advice wouldyou give to a woman standing in
that crossroads of I don't knowif I can surrender to his
leadership Does?
Cassandra Williams (35:52):
he know who.
Belinda Gaston (35:53):
I am, I'm a leader.
Cassandra Williams (35:55):
But here's the thing he needs the authentic
version of you.
My husband needs the authenticversion of me.
So if I show up any kind of way, I am a leader and so I show up
as such.
But my leading does not crushhim, it doesn't devalue him, it
(36:22):
does not make him feel any lessthan, if anything, it allows him
to be the best version ofhimself, because now he's not
having to carry a load that he'snot meant to carry either.
So if you, showing up as yourauthentic self, surrendered in
that place which means the CEO,guess what you don't have to be
(36:45):
the same way you are in theboardroom as you are in your
household, but you can be justas you may bring that skill set
in the way that things aremanaged.
But it does not mean you get tolord over your husband and just
like on the opposite end ofthat spectrum with a the man, he
(37:09):
might be the CEO, he might bethe head man and that all of
these things.
When he's in, you know at work,but when he comes home he can
still wash dishes.
It's that level.
Submission does not meansubmission.
Submission does not meanSubmission.
And surrender Does not meanthat you're a doormat.
(37:32):
It doesn't mean you're weak.
It takes strength.
It takes a level of strength Tosurrender.
It takes a level of strength Tohush, be quiet when you want to
speak.
But a real leader can listen,digest the information and
(37:59):
figure out how to best move usforward as a win-win, not my way
or the highway as a win-win,not my way or the highway.
Belinda Gaston (38:11):
Wow, this is such a great conversation and I
feel like you're leading me to awhole marriage series for
leaders.
So, listeners, we may haveCassandra back.
Thank you so much for yourtransparency.
I wanna give you an opportunityto give some final thoughts.
What would you like to leaveour listeners with as a final
thought today?
Cassandra Williams (38:35):
My final thought would be this Love
yourself unapologetically.
Everything starts with that,because if you're not, if you
don't love yourself and you'retrying to give it to everybody
else, it's not going to work,not long term.
(38:57):
So to show up as an authenticleader that's lit, that's
leading from the inside, don'tbe afraid to do your work, do
that internal work.
I know we made it out, you madeit out.
I know it's over, it's done,but you're still carrying the
residue.
You're still carrying whatwoulda, coulda, shoulda.
(39:19):
You've locked it away in acloset, swept it under the rug.
Listen, things that are lockedin closets have a way of falling
out.
Things that are swept under therug have a tendency to trip you
up the higher you go.
So take the time now to reallylook at and it's something that
(39:40):
you can do on a daily, weekly,monthly, quarterly basis, to be
like let me check myself, let mecheck my heart, let me check my
heart, let me check myresponses.
Why did I act like that?
Why am I doing that?
Because it may mean thatthere's some things, another
layer of healing that needs totake place that you didn't even
(40:02):
realize was there.
That's the thing.
A lot of things we don't evenknow they're there until they
start showing up, and then we'reso quick to move past them.
I encourage you not to movepast things too quickly, but be
able to be present in yourprocess and take the time you
(40:23):
need so that you can lead well.
Belinda Gaston (40:33):
So, listeners, there is so much in this
conversation.
I know if you are listening.
You are wondering now, okay, Iwant to connect with Cassandra,
I want to be able to follow upwith some of the things that she
said.
And so, Cassandra, if you couldtell us first how to connect
with you, but also, what are youworking on these days?
What's going on in the life ofCassandra?
(40:56):
Absolutely.
Cassandra Williams (40:57):
You can reach me at
wwwthecassandrawilliamscom.
That is my website and what Iam working on right now is a
surrender.
I am crossing over into that,really embracing that leadership
space.
I have a new book out, achildren's book, which is called
(41:17):
Lead Anyway, layla, which iswritten for our little
disruptors, those little girlsthat are going into elementary
school and middle school thatare having to make the decision
to be brave, to stand in theirauthenticity, no matter.
You know they may have physicalailments or different things
(41:39):
that may be going on, but theycan still lead.
That does not discount them,but it helps them to lead.
And then for the us, moreseasoned I ain't going to say
call us older, you know seasonedpeople I have a new book that's
coming out that's called Leadwith the Limp and that is
(42:00):
helping people leadunapologetically with those
things that they want to hide.
You may have had a divorce, youmay actually physically, like
myself, walk with a limp andbeen praying and saying God, god
, you've healed me, youdelivered me, you did all of
these things, but I'm stillwalking with this limp.
And he says can you lead withthat anyway?
(42:21):
Can you be like Jacob whowrestled with me, got the
blessing but limped away.
Can you see it as a sign thatyou've been with me and so I've
had to embrace that and begin tolead from that place with that,
to be like, yeah, I may walk alittle different, but I'm still
(42:44):
a leader and called by God,instead of hiding, not wanting
anybody to see it?
So for those of you that hadmay have had a divorce, had a
baby outside of wedlock justdifferent things may have found
yourself behind you know,incarcerated, and now you're
like if anybody knew that, Ican't do it because I'm
(43:05):
discounted, I'm misunderstood.
No-transcript.
Belinda Gaston (43:35):
Thank you so much, and so for our listeners,
we will place I'll place all ofthis information in the show
notes.
I love Layla and the wholepersona of Layla, so if I will
have the information aboutCassandra's website, about Lead
Any Anyway, layla, thechildren's book, as well as any
information that Cassandrashared about leading with a limp
, I love that, and so we'll haveall of that in the show's notes
(43:56):
.
Listen, I encourage you, ifthis episode resonated with you,
to use this as a sign toconnect.
You hear me say this all thetime that we are not meant to
lead alone.
I feel strongly about that, andyou know from previous episodes
that I've even talked about whywe get in these positions where
(44:17):
we're leading in isolation whenwe shouldn't but get the help
that you need, and I thinkthere's been enough resources
shared on this show that you canfind your fit.
And so if this made your heartflutter, if it made you think,
please do yourself a favor andconnect with Cassandra.
Cassandra, thank you so muchfor being authentically
(44:40):
unapologetically you.
I'm glad I got you in thisseason.
It has, as my grandmother wouldsay, been a plumb pleasing
pleasure speaking with you.
Cassandra Williams (44:50):
You as well.
Thank you for having me today.
Belinda Gaston (44:53):
And to our listeners.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Graced to Lead podcast.
I don't take your listeninglightly, as always.
Remember to share this podcast.
You know we're on all of theplatforms, so there's ways for
you to share, like and providepositive feedback.
But also, if you're listeningon Buzzsprout I can't remember
if you can do this on Apple ornot you can actually send me a
(45:15):
message directly.
So if you click on the buttonthat says send a message, I
actually get those on my phoneand I will respond.
And so, for those of you whosent them, thank you, but please
stay in touch.
You can get information aboutme and the Graced to Lead
podcast on BelindaGastoncom and,as always, I'm grateful for you
tuning in so until we meet eachother again next week, remember
(45:38):
, you are indeed Graced to Lead.
Bye-bye.
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