May 29, 2025 • 39 mins
What happens when you move beyond sacred rest into a deeper understanding of who you truly are? Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith, board-certified physician and wellness expert, takes us on a journey from her work on the seven types of rest to her newest revelation about identity and belonging.
The conversation explores her framework of beholding, becoming, and belonging that challenges everything you thought you knew about fitting in. Dr. Saundra makes a compelling distinction: fitting in means blending with the crowd, while true belonging happens when you uniquely fill a space with what only you can bring. For women leaders who often find themselves "the only one" in their professional environments, this reframing offers tremendous liberation.
The conversation delves into the challenges of personal transformation, from the "friendly fire" of those uncomfortable with your growth to the seemingly stagnant "set apart seasons" where unseen root growth is happening.
Whether you're feeling burnout, wrestling with your identity beyond your roles and titles, or searching for where you truly belong, this conversation offers the guidance and perspective to help you step into the fullness of who you were created to be. Join us to discover how being fully known—by yourself, by others, and by God—can transform your leadership and your life.
Mentioned During the Show:
- Grab your copy of Being Fully Known here:
- Amazon: CLICK HERE
- Barnes & Noble: CLICK HERE
- ChristianBook.com: CLICK HERE
- Join the Summer Book Club!
- Listen to Dr. Saundra's Podcast
Please subscribe to our mailing list to stay connected and get updates! Thanks for listening to the Graced to Lead Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Belinda Gaston (00:00):
Hey, it's Belinda with the Graced to Lead
Podcast, and listen.
Today's episode features one ofmy favorite people, Dr.
Saundra Dalton-Smith.
You may know her from her firstbook, Sacred Rest, but today
we're diving into her newestrelease, being fully known.
So if you've ever felt burnout,restless or unsure of where you
(00:20):
truly belong, this one's foryou.
Dr.
Saundra is a board certifiedinternal medicine physician, a
work-life integration researcher, and she's an international
wellness expert.
She's been featured inPrevention, MSNBC, Women's Day,
Fox, Fast Company, PsychologyToday, even has a few TED Talks
(00:43):
under her belt.
We're going deep today, y'all,on emotional wellness, identity
and what it really means to leadfrom a place of wholeness.
So go ahead, grab your coffee,grab your journal.
You're gonna want to take notesfor this one.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the Grace to Leadpodcast.
(01:06):
I am Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen, I'm excited about
this conversation.
You already heard about myguest, Dr.
Saundra Dalton-Smith.
We are excited to have her onthe Grace to Lead podcast.
Welcome, Dr.
Saundra, to the podcast.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (01:22):
I'm excited to be here with you.
Belinda Gaston (01:27):
Dr Sandra to the podcast.
I'm excited to be here with you, thank you, and I think it's
best for us to jump right intoour conversation.
I am a huge fan of your writingyour Sacred Rest.
I went to the Rest Questretreat when I was first
introduced to Sacred Rest, yourfirst book, and it really did
change how I view rest and how Ithink about things as it
relates to rest.
And now you have a new book, soI want to talk about it.
(01:51):
The new book if you listeners,if you didn't catch all of the
introduction is called beingFully Known.
Being Fully Known it isavailable now and listen.
If you thought that her bookabout rest was going to change
your life, this book is amazing.
So first let's talk about DrSandra.
What inspired you to writebeing Fully Known, especially
(02:15):
now?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (02:16):
Yeah, I felt like the conversation on
rest wasn't complete.
You know, I understand quite afew people, as you'd mentioned,
had had an experience where justunderstanding there are more
than one type of rest, thatsleep is not the only thing
that's needed for us to feelrestored.
I know that for myself, thatrevelation and the seven types
of rest changed my life, but Ialso realized that even after
(02:38):
that there was, there was levelsof restlessness that still
remained that had nothing to dowith any of those seven, and I
needed to go deeper into what isthis?
What is this continued level ofrestlessness Like?
There's this undergirding thatkeeps me slightly stressed all
the time, and I started toreally just understand within
(03:00):
myself and through the guidanceof Holy Spirit that it was
within myself and through theguidance of Holy Spirit that it
was.
It's really a lack of rest,specifically in allowing myself
to be me.
You know, I am in professionalsettings oftentimes and I find
that I'm living up toexpectations of other people.
I have high expectations ofmyself.
(03:21):
I'm constantly kind of in thisambition driven mode and
starting to really reflect onwho am I, apart from my roles,
my titles and my accomplishments, and can I rest in that, and so
that's what this book goesdeeper into.
Belinda Gaston (03:39):
And that is a huge question who am I beyond
these titles and these roles?
And I think we often get socaught up in being all the
things and not reallyunderstanding who we are that
this book is relevant and listenfor our listeners.
I have started reading thisbook and I have to.
I tell you, I have to read itand put it down because it does
(04:01):
offer some challenging questionsbut also some practical advice,
and so one of the things thatyou talk about is beholding and
becoming and belonging, and so Iwant to talk a little bit about
that framework.
Can you describe what you meanwhen you talk about beholding
and becoming and belonging tosomeone who may not understand
(04:24):
what that means?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (04:26):
Yeah, this is to me, this is the
journey that we get to walk onin this process of being known,
and it starts with being knownby God and knowing him.
So it's him knowing us and usknowing him.
So that's the first part thebeholding.
The becoming is really after wespend focused attention on God,
(04:46):
after we spend time beholding,we become what we behold, we
begin to transform into theimage of Christ.
We actually can see moreclearly the aspects of God's
character that we have inside ofus, that maybe we haven't
allowed to come to the surfaceyet, and so that becoming is a
deeper awareness I guess is thebest word of ourselves through
(05:09):
the lens of Christ and throughwhat we see about and know and
learn about God.
And then that third aspect ofthat as we begin to fully
understand ourselves more andsee God more clearly, we are
bolder, we are more confidentand we are able to then step
into true places of belonging.
(05:30):
Most of the time when we say, oh, I feel like I belong in this
group, or I feel like I foundwhere I belong, we're actually
saying I think I found the placewhere I fit in.
It's like I look like everybodyelse, I sound like everybody
else.
This doesn't stretch me.
This is really comfortable.
You can drop me in the mix andI'm just blend right in.
(05:51):
That is not true belonging,because you're still fitting in
and kind of conforming to thisworld in that situation.
True belonging is when youuniquely fit a space.
It does not matter whatanything else looks like, Does
not matter what else ishappening in the space.
You feel the God void in thatlocation.
(06:12):
You're bringing in hischaracter, You're bringing in an
aspect of his nature, You'rebringing in something that is
specifically and unique to you,based off of your past
experiences, your dramas andtraumas and how you have beheld
him in your personal life andwho you've become through that
process.
Those are the places ofbelonging that allow us to be
(06:35):
ourselves without limit, withouthaving to worry about what is
someone thinking, because you'veshown up with a level of
boldness that only comes whenyou know yourself well.
Belinda Gaston (06:46):
And I think that's one of the concepts, dr
Sandra, of the book that I founda bit not really challenging,
but you really turn things onits head for me in that when
you're thinking about theconcept of belonging because
I've always kind of picturedbelonging as these are.
You know, as you describedearlier, this is my place, this
(07:09):
is where people are like me,this is where people think like
me and to think about.
Well, wait a minute, whathappens when you go into a space
where people don't look likeyou or they don't think like you
?
Does that mean that you don'tbelong in that space?
And so I would like to talkabout belonging when you are
(07:31):
different, right, and so thispodcast is geared towards women
who lead and many of the spacesthat women are leading in.
They may be the only woman, orthey may be the only person that
looks like them or talks likethem.
Or even, if we take our faith,you may be the only woman or
they may be the only person thatlooks like them or talks like
them.
Or even, if we take our faith,you may be the only believer in
Christ in a space.
(07:51):
Yet you're encouraging us toreally be fully known and to
seek and to find that space ofbelonging.
And so if we have a leader whois in that space where I'm not
like everyone else, is itpossible to find belonging in a
space like that?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (08:12):
That is the space you are most likely
to find true belonging.
Because when we I love what youdescribed there, because I
don't put belonging andcommunity in the same bucket, I
don't put belonging andcommunity in the same bucket I
can be in community with peoplewho look similar to me, but
those communities may changebecause I may not always look
(08:33):
like that.
So I'm, you know, I'm 20 years,I'm a clinical physician, and
so I found community with otherdoctors who are working in the
hospital and doing, you know, 60hour a week clinical work,
because I look just like them,I'm living a similar life as
them.
When I started working indifferent ways, when I started
(08:54):
becoming more entrepreneurial,all of a sudden that community
didn't, I didn't fit in anymore.
And that's the problem when weconfuse community with belonging
, because community, if youchange, you don't fit the
community anymore.
And that's the problem when weconfuse community with belonging
, because community, if youchange, you don't fit the
community anymore.
And then you're like I don'tbelong.
Well, it depends on how you'reviewing it, because maybe you're
(09:16):
there to show them thatsomething else is possible.
And so if your belonging isonly wrapped up in the mindset
of community, you missopportunities to actually step
into true belonging, whereyou're the unicorn in the room
but you're filling a god voidbecause you're bringing the
imagination of what is possible,not just what's probable.
(09:41):
And so I, for the person whomight find themselves in a
company you're like, I'm theonly person who's of a certain
gender or even of a, you know, acertain faith or whatever it is
, in that particular communityor in that area, you may not
feel as if you fit in, which isfine, because that fitting in is
fitting in is stressful andbelonging should.
(10:04):
It should feel like social rest,it should feel like I have
showed up as me, and so fittingin is not belonging.
So you're not trying to fit in.
But belonging is so much deeperthan that.
Belonging is allowing yourselfto be who you are in that space,
and recognizing that thedifferences is why you belong
(10:26):
there.
You're bringing a completion tothe puzzle, because if no one's
in that space who can speak ina way that they understand being
a woman or they understandbeing a certain race or they
understand being a certainreligion, if no one is filling
that void, is that picturecomplete?
(10:47):
Does it have a fullness to it?
Is it bringing a whole realityto the question that your
company or that your division isasking no, and so we have to
then get the leadership insideof us to be willing to speak in
our places of belonging.
Belinda Gaston (11:09):
That is so good.
I feel like we need a moment ofpause there, because we often
do associate belonging withcommunity, and I think what
you've said really does clarifythat, and so I think all of this
, this conversation, and eventhe book, continues to encourage
(11:31):
us to be well emotionally,mentally, spiritually.
I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about emotional
wellness, why it's critical forleaders, especially for women of
faith.
Why is it important that weunderstand and find our space
(11:51):
and understand where we belongand get these things in
alignment.
Why is that important for womenwho lead?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (12:00):
Yeah, emotional wellness is a
foundation really for being ableto live in a place of being
known and not people pleasing,and not being limited in your
beliefs because of past traumasand dramas and all the other
stuff that we may have gonethrough.
So I find it as if we look atkind of our lives and our work,
(12:31):
the things that we do as aleader, if we look at it as a
tree, emotional wellness is likethe roots of that tree.
If your emotions are not deeplyrooted, then you're going to be
blown over whenever somethinghappens that's outside of your
norm.
Most leaders the battle thatthey have, the reason that they
get stuck or stunted growth, ifwe're using the tree analogy,
the reason that happens isbecause they refuse to allow
(12:52):
themselves to process, throughthe emotions that are toxic, the
parts of their root system thatneed to be uprooted and that
need reframing and need to bere-evaluated.
And a big aspect of that isbecause true leaders go through
phases of what I call the setapart season and the unknown and
(13:16):
they fluctuate back and forthbetween those two as they go
higher and higher, because eachnew level is an unknown.
Each new level has its ownstressors and particulars and
periods of pruning, the setapart time that's needed.
And so when we have, we havethis mindset that it's just kind
(13:40):
of a straight shot up up theladder.
You know, whether it's thecorporate ladder, the
entrepreneurial ladder orwhatever it is, it's just a
straight shot up and you don'thave to have any growing pains
and you don't have to have anytesting of your faith and you
don't have to have any, you know, extension of your trusting and
knowledge of trusting God.
It's a live causes worsening ofthose, because our emotions
(14:02):
want a level of stability and,like definite structure, our
emotions want to always be incontrol.
You know, if we think about theway we approach emotions, we
don't want to lose.
Control is how we define ouremotions.
But true emotional wellness isthat you have periods of time
where you realize I don't knowhow, what to feel in this moment
(14:28):
and I need to simply stop andget divine guidance on what it
is is going on inside of me.
And if you're a leader andyou've ever experienced this,
you know exactly what I'mtalking about.
I just checked the box offthree goals and I'm still not
happy.
I just won such and such awardand I'm not satisfied.
(14:50):
I just got the promotion andthat stresses me more than when
I was trying to get thepromotion.
It's like I don't know what tofeel, and so then a lot of us
just shut our emotions down.
And that's where we have a lotof people right now.
They're in grind and they don'tknow what to feel and they
don't want to feel because theydon't know what they're feeling.
And so with emotional wellnessparticularly with people of
(15:13):
faith, but in general, emotionalwellness is the healing of that
process where you realize thatI have to feel it and experience
it to get the emotionalresilience from it and the
growth and the strength thatcomes from that.
And if I just keep trying tobreak it under the rug and keep
(15:35):
going, I'm never going to get toa higher level because I'm not
actually letting the roots growdeep enough.
Belinda Gaston (15:43):
I love how you phrase this because it's sparked
another thought for me that Iknow it's come up on this show
before and I know that some ofour listeners are thinking about
this.
I think that leaders we know,as particularly women who lead,
we know, okay, we got to dealwith our emotions, one of the
questions that keeps coming back.
(16:04):
I get messages and thank youlisteners for sending me text
messages.
I appreciate keep them coming.
But one of the messages I getoften is this idea of the safety
to even think about this right,that the safety you're creating
a safe space to reflect on theemotions, to understand our
(16:26):
belonging, because as a leader,you have to keep going, right?
Is that what you talked about?
Is you put it on the road?
You just keep going, you grind,grind, grind, and some leaders
feel like that's a weakness totake a moment to do that, to
find the time and the space.
So what would you say?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (16:43):
Yes, what would you say?
It definitely is not a weakness.
I would say that is the liethat the enemy is probably.
If you're saying that toyourself, that is the lie the
enemy is using to keep you stuck.
That is the lie that the enemyis using to keep you burned out,
stressed out, always feelinglike everything's so hard.
It's simply just a lie.
(17:03):
Rest is about restoration, andit's about that's what I talk
about in sacred rest.
Rest is about restoration andit's restoring you back to a
place of being able to do thework God's given you to do.
And so when you start seeingemotional rest is what we're
discussing emotional well-being,emotional rest.
When you start seeing emotionalrest, or any type of rest
(17:24):
really that you might bedeficient in whether it's
physical, mental, spiritual,emotional, social, sensory or
creative, any of the seven youget deficient in any of those
and you feel like I don't havetime to deal with this.
You are already under his yoke,the yoke of the enemy, because
(17:46):
if he can keep you from fillingup a bucket God's trying to pour
from, how are you ever going toget into the fullness of that
promise?
You don't.
You're not even equipped withwhat he's trying to get to you
because you're refusing the giftof restoration in the areas of
your gifting.
So with emotions, we have tostart realizing that the
stronger those emotional rootsare, the stronger I'm able to
(18:08):
evaluate what I'm feeling,experience it, process through
it, whether I'm processing witha friend or a therapist or a
coach or a pastor, whether I'mprocessing through it, through
like some type of artwork, likemy son, his emotional rest.
He goes up and he plays hisguitar and I can tell you what
he's feeling based on what kindof music is coming out of his
(18:29):
room, because that's how heprocesses.
Some people paint, some peopledoodle, some people journal.
So you get to choose kind ofwhat it is you're going to use
to process through emotions.
But we all have to do it and itdoesn't have to be this huge
carved out period of time Likeyou don't need to go spend 20
hours, you know, on the weekend,doing emotional rest.
(18:50):
What I like to do is, at the endof each day I asked myself
where did I get hit?
Maybe it's a patient that madea snide remark, you know that
said something that made me feellike, okay, they didn't really
show much respect in thatsituation or they didn't act
like they knew what I was doing,or or I don't, you know,
whatever it is.
So I'm going to deal with thatemotion of feeling belittled, or
(19:14):
maybe it's.
I had an opportunity to come upand instead of like being like,
yeah, I think this is what I'msupposed to do, I'm going to say
yes and sign up for it, butinstead I'm like God, me, am I
the right person?
So now I'm insecure.
So where did that emotion comefrom?
If we don't deal with thisstuff, it's going to keep
(19:35):
showing up.
So the next time that anopportunity comes along and it's
big and I'm thinking, oh, I gotthe right girl for this one,
that insecurity keeps popping up.
Whereas if I deal with it and Istart asking questions like God
, what in me feels unworthy,holy Spirit, help me, deal with
me, help me deal with the partsof me that doesn't feel like I'm
(19:57):
worthy to get that kind ofopportunity.
What makes me feel like that?
If we don't deal with thosethings, they just keep popping
up over and over again in ourlives.
Belinda Gaston (20:07):
So I love that.
So for our listeners, here'sone practical step is to take
each day and do that reflectionthat Dr Saunders is talking
about when did I get hit today?
That's what she does.
She asks the question, wheredid I get hit?
And then ask yourself questionsabout why you responded the way
you responded or why you feelwhat you feel.
(20:28):
I think that is a greatpractical step.
I want to talk a little bit morebecause something that stood
out to me as I'm well again, I'mstill reading the book.
But as I'm reading the book,something that stands out to me
is this idea of feeling seen,and it's triggered for me, which
is why I put the book.
Something that stands out to meis this idea of feeling seen
and it's triggered for me, whichis why I put the book down this
(20:49):
third time.
It's triggered for me placeswhere I may have felt
misunderstood you know what Imean Like I thought I was being
clear, I thought I waspresenting myself one way and
then it was misunderstood andfor me I've had to really lean
into community for that.
So I'd like to talk about that.
Part of what you're saying inyour book is listen, you can be
(21:12):
fully known, you can be seen.
What role does community playin all of this and how do we
cultivate these spaces so thatif we are in a spot where we
feel misunderstood and we needto process this, we can go to
these people in our communityand find some reprieve?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (21:33):
Yeah, community is important because
we all want that sense of peoplehave our back and we're
understood.
Social rest is one of the typesof rest I talk about and it's
the rest you experience whenyou're around people who are
life giving, so they can talkyour talk, they walk the walk,
they get you.
You don't have to explain whatyou do and how you do it.
(21:53):
It's like they get your life.
But sometimes those aren't theplaces of deepest belonging.
They can be, but oftentimesthey're not the places of
deepest belonging, but they areplaces of safety and comfort.
And so I think it's importantto have communities where you
have safety and comfort andcamaraderie and you've had that
(22:15):
sense of social rest that comesfrom that.
But on the other side of thatthere's another type of social
rest which is that deeper levelof belonging which is where
you're stepping into alsopurpose and you're stepping also
into giftings and talents,where you're able to be
completely unleashed, so tospeak.
You're not having to fit intoyour crowd, you're able to
(22:40):
actually stand out purposefullyand because you're needed in
that space.
And so I think we need to haveboth and with community, I think
the big part about community ishaving a community where you're
given kind of full license tojust speak your truth, because
(23:01):
then community brings in thatemotional rest that's needed as
well.
It's not just the social restof I'm with people who know what
my life is like, but now I'mwith people who know what my
life is like and I feel thefreedom to speak about it openly
, without reservation.
For example, I go once a yearto this event up in Myrtle Beach
(23:22):
with a group of other Christianauthors and speakers and
everybody there has, you know,they're in full time ministry,
basically of some sort oranother.
So they're speaking, you know,multiple, 10 plus times a year.
They've written a couple ofbooks each and every one of them
that's there.
So when I'm up there with thisgroup of women I feel I'm in my
(23:46):
community.
I don't have to explain to themwhat it's like to have to fight
with an event planner oversomething stupid.
I don't have to explain withthem what a writer is for a
speaker.
They know basic stuff.
I don't have to.
If I'm having a conversationhalf the time isn't me
explaining stuff to them.
They get it and so I can have alevel of conversation with them
(24:08):
, because they don't even knowwhat I'm talking about, and so
that is a community that givesme a great deal of social rest,
but I don't find it to be theplace of my deepest belonging.
In other words, when I'm thereand I've spoken there, you know.
So it's not like I don't feellike I can serve there I can,
(24:29):
but that is not the place whereGod's greatest glory, I would
say from my life.
He gets it in places where hestretches me and I step into
moments where I realize if Iweren't there speaking on behalf
of my father's business,there's not many other people
who could do in that moment atthat time.
(24:50):
Because I've been, and it canbe on a large scale or small
scale.
You know, in the book I shareabout an experience in the
emergency room actually, with afamily where the mother had
passed, basically, and she had asmall child who was there.
He ran out of the family roomwhen he heard his dad wailing
(25:13):
and when I saw this childbolting toward the door.
We had barely gotten his mother, like clothed, back up from the
all the stuff you do trying torevive somebody, and she came in
pretty much lifeless.
So I saw this little personbolting toward the door.
(25:34):
It was like a momentary when Isay it feels like the heavens
open.
It was like in one moment I waslike there's no way this child
is going to see his mother likethis.
I literally flung myself infront of this child and he's
beating my legs with his hands.
I want to see mama.
And then just burst out intotears and I was like God, I
(25:55):
don't know why you have me as aphysician, but I know as someone
who lost her mother at a youngage.
I was meant to be here at thisvery moment Because I was not
going to let that child see whatwas going on on that table.
There could have been a hundredother doctors that had that
opportunity in that day, butthey would not have been able to
minister to that child the wayI did, because I felt his pain.
(26:18):
It's like I'm looking at himand I know what part of his life
is going to feel like from thisday forward.
And so I think we often don'trecognize the specificity of
that.
Don't recognize the specificityof that.
I've been at events where I'mspeaking to groups of people who
(26:39):
have nothing to do with God,jesus or anything else Christian
, and you know there areorganizations where I can't even
I'm sharing seven types of restand I'm having to share
spirituality in a very likeinclusive way so that they can
actually receive the messagethat I'm trying to share with
them.
And at the end, grown men arecoming up and this is a business
event literally almostoverwhelmed, like almost crying
(27:05):
tears in their eyes, overwhelmed, and say you have no idea how
much I needed that.
Ceo retreats of like Fortune100 companies where I'm doing a
retreat and people pull me asideand share some of their deepest
, darkest stuff.
They probably never toldanybody ever and I'm literally a
stranger, but I know I am therewith a very intentional kingdom
(27:30):
mandate.
They may not be ready for, butthey're ready for God's love.
And God needs someone who's notafraid to be Jesus and not have
the privilege of even sayingJesus maybe in some of the
situation, but has been throughthe beholding and the belonging
and have stepped into a place ofbecoming where, however, god is
(27:54):
leading them to fill the voidin that space.
They have the boldness and thecourage to do that, and so I
think we have to get leaderskind of unlocked from what they
think leadership is.
The biggest leadership you willdo is leading yourself out of
your own fear, out of your owninsecurity, out of the smallness
of what you think your life canbe and how you think God can
(28:17):
use you.
That's the biggest part ofleadership you're going to do.
Leading people is easy.
Leading you, that's hard,because you will fight yourself
to the point that you will talkyourself out of the greatest
levels of experiences andexposures that God actually has
possible for you.
Belinda Gaston (28:36):
So that leads to the next question.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (28:37):
So what are steps people can take
to becoming yeah, the first stepI would probably say is to
start going deeper in how youview God in your day-to-day life
, because the beholding aspectof it is the foundation of it.
How are you seeing God thatdoesn't reflect how you're
(29:00):
seeing you?
You know, if we just start fromthe very first words in the
beginning, right?
So if we just start with thevery first part of the Bible,
god is constantly speakingcreatively.
God is imaginative and creative, like.
Are you allowing that part ofyourself to have freedom?
Are you allowing yourself tohave imagination and creativity
(29:25):
about what your life can looklike, about what you are capable
of, about the gifts and thetalents inside of you?
Or have you boxed up some ofyour own imagination and
creativity?
Because you got a job, you knowyou got the thing you do and
you're making a check and it'sall good and God will keep you
know.
Sometimes that is what he wantsyou to do and you'll stay there
(29:46):
for a season.
But when you start feeling kindof that stirring, you know, I
hear people say do you feel likethere's more?
And for most of us it's notthis feeling of I need to do
more stuff.
We got plenty of stuff to doFor a lot of us, the more that
we are hungering for is moreunderstanding of who we are and
(30:06):
what's inside of us.
And so that's where I wouldbegin with the beholding time in
his word, time and reflectionon how, what you see in his word
and what you see of him in yourlife, what does that saying
about you?
You know anything that youadmire about the life of Jesus
that you're like wow, I wish Icould whatever fill in the blank
(30:28):
.
That's a place to sit andreflect.
I wish I could go in and fliptables, or I wish I could raise
the dead or whatever it is,whatever it is you're seeing
that you that you're like.
I wish I could see some aspectof that in my life.
That is a heart desire and thenopen yourself up to God.
What would that look like inthis day and age?
Belinda Gaston (30:51):
I don't think that we often take a moment to
do that, but it's important.
I never thought about lookingat the characteristics of Jesus
and what are those things thatJesus did that I might want to
do.
So I appreciate that, and so wetalked about beholding, and in
the book you give some othersteps.
(31:13):
We talked about beholding andin the book, you give some other
steps.
I would like to ask for womenwho are going through this
journey and I highly recommendleaders that you get this book
and actually walk this out,because, as I said, what I
appreciate about your writing,dr Sandra, is that, though
you're writing this and it'svery practical, but it's also
personal, you can make it verypersonal, and so, as people are
walking through these steps tobecoming, I want to talk about
(31:39):
the challenges.
So there are always obstacles.
What would you say is thebiggest obstacle to becoming?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (31:55):
book.
I think it's really importantto just be real about some of
those.
One of them is I define it asfriendly fire coming under
friendly fire, and it'sbasically the people in your
life that give you pushback whenyou start changing, because
they're used to you beinghowever you've used to be and so
you know if you've always beenkind of the quiet, reserved, shy
person and then you startactually becoming fully known
and developing into someonewho's not so fearful and who
(32:18):
understands who they are inChrist and has a handle really
on their identity and all ofthat, you're not going to act
the same way, you're not goingto be the same person they've
always known.
And so they start pushing backwhen you start trying to do
things and so recognizing thatoftentimes, when that happened,
it's not necessarily that theythink you're dumb for trying to
(32:40):
do whatever it is or that you'renot capable.
It's oftentimes the fact thatthey are grieving or scared
about how it's going to affectthem, because now, all of a
sudden, you know, you decide youwant to start a business.
Now they're scared becausethey're like, well, how is this
going to affect our income?
You making the change.
It's about their owninsecurities and fears that
(33:03):
you're awakening and kind ofbringing to light.
Another one I talk about is, asI mentioned earlier, the set
apart season For some.
When they go through thisperiod where they've heard from
God or they really feel likethey know what God is calling
them to, the next that he'scalling them to, that they
hesitate and get stuck in thatseason where things look like
(33:25):
nothing's happening, it lookslike there's no growth, it looks
like I'm just kind of hangingout in this one area and I can't
really see any evidence of Godmoving or doing anything.
And they don't really realizethat during that time, that's
when that emotional wholeness wewere talking about happens,
that's when the roots grow.
You don't see the tree on top.
When the roots are going deeper, it looks like nothing's
(33:47):
happening, but everything that'shappening is on the inside.
And so during that time, mostof the work that's being done is
the work on you, it's the workin your heart to prepare you,
for the thing he's calling youto is to make you unshakable, so
that you're deep enough in himso that you're not swayed by so
many things.
(34:07):
And then the third one I wouldprobably say is a huge obstacle
is a lot of us throw upfirewalls in our lives as it
relates to the Spirit of God,and by that what I mean is the
easiest way I could probablydescribe this is you get as much
God as you're willing to letrun free in your life.
(34:28):
So if you want to know whatall's happening and you want all
the details and all the stepsand you want God to lay you out
the blueprint of your life,you're going to get very little
of his spirit flowing throughyour life.
If you look at the Bible, mostof the people he's like go here
and I'll tell you on the way.
It's like.
You don't get all the details.
(34:48):
You get just enough to be ableto make a step, make a move, and
so we have to allow ourselvesthe ability to let our need to
know drop and let our trust rise, because that's what really
living a life in the spiritlooks like.
It's a hands off adventure.
You're not.
(35:08):
Your hands aren't on the wheeland your foot's not on the gas.
You're literally just sittingin the car, but you're willing
to be on the journey with them.
Belinda Gaston (35:18):
I think that's a great place for us to end.
I mean, I think leaderslistening to this can relate to
everything you said and areprobably at this point thinking,
man, I need to, one, pick upthis book, but, two, I need to
do some reflection and perhapssome reframing of some things.
So, before we go, I would liketo know if you have any final
thoughts, anything.
(35:39):
If you had to leave thisconversation with one thing you
wanted the leaders listening toremember, what would that be?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (35:47):
Yeah, the one thing I would probably
say I would want them toremember is that there's a life
on the other side of what youthink is possible, and most of
us, when we say possible, youknow something looks impossible.
What we're actually thinking isit's improbable because the
(36:07):
word of God says all things arepossible.
So once you get your beliefsystem to line up with the word
of God, that you're not lookingat the probability of something
but the possibility of something, it completely rearranges how
you step into every area of yourlife.
You step into there with the.
(36:27):
One of the words I talk aboutin the book is with your Hanini.
It's a Hebrew word that saysGod.
Before you even ask thequestion, my answer is yes,
that's a life that he can use todo and be glorified in a way
that you never thought orimagined.
Belinda Gaston (36:45):
This was such a great conversation.
Again, I highly recommend ourlisteners get this book, just
like Sacred Rest.
I think this is a life-changingbook, so I appreciate your
obedience and even writing it.
Dr.
Saundra, if people wanted toconnect with you, what's the
best way that people can connectwith you?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (37:05):
Yeah, I'd love to invite you to a book
club that we have this summer,starts in June, goes through
July on the book and it's thetitle of the book being fully
knowncom.
So if you just type that in,I'll get you right to the sign
up for the book club.
I also have a podcast.
I choose my best life that youwere on Belinda and be happy to
(37:25):
have them over to listen to ourconversation there as well.
Belinda Gaston (37:29):
Yes, excellent.
Thank you Definitely join thebook club.
Our conversation was amazing.
I love Dr Sandra's podcast.
If you are looking forinspiration and new information,
you definitely have to check itout.
I will put all of the links toeverything in our show notes so,
if you are listening, you canget everything that you need in
(37:51):
order to connect with Dr Sandra.
Dr Sandra, thank you so much foryour time.
This has been a greatconversation, thought-provoking
conversation, reflectiveconversation.
I appreciate you so much forsaying yes, it's been a pleasure
to be here with you.
Thank you, and so for ourlisteners, you can again follow
(38:11):
Dr Sandra.
All of the links will be in theshow notes, as always.
I appreciate you listening tothe Grace to Lead podcast.
Remember to subscribe to thepodcast and share the podcast
for season two.
If you haven't heard season one, go back and listen.
You can connect with us onBelindaGastoncom.
Within every podcast platform,there's a way for you to sign up
(38:35):
and follow us so that you getall of the things Grace to Lead.
Again, I'm happy that you arelistening and until we meet
again next week, remember youare indeed Grace to Lead.
Bye-bye.
Hey, it's Belinda with the Graced to Lead
Podcast, and listen.
Today's episode features one ofmy favorite people, Dr.
Saundra Dalton-Smith.
You may know her from her firstbook, Sacred Rest, but today
we're diving into her newestrelease, being fully known.
So if you've ever felt burnout,restless or unsure of where you
(00:20):
truly belong, this one's foryou.
Dr.
Saundra is a board certifiedinternal medicine physician, a
work-life integration researcher, and she's an international
wellness expert.
She's been featured inPrevention, MSNBC, Women's Day,
Fox, Fast Company, PsychologyToday, even has a few TED Talks
(00:43):
under her belt.
We're going deep today, y'all,on emotional wellness, identity
and what it really means to leadfrom a place of wholeness.
So go ahead, grab your coffee,grab your journal.
You're gonna want to take notesfor this one.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the Grace to Leadpodcast.
(01:06):
I am Belinda Gaston, your host,and listen, I'm excited about
this conversation.
You already heard about myguest, Dr.
Saundra Dalton-Smith.
We are excited to have her onthe Grace to Lead podcast.
Welcome, Dr.
Saundra, to the podcast.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (01:22):
I'm excited to be here with you.
Belinda Gaston (01:27):
Dr Sandra to the podcast.
I'm excited to be here with you, thank you, and I think it's
best for us to jump right intoour conversation.
I am a huge fan of your writingyour Sacred Rest.
I went to the Rest Questretreat when I was first
introduced to Sacred Rest, yourfirst book, and it really did
change how I view rest and how Ithink about things as it
relates to rest.
And now you have a new book, soI want to talk about it.
(01:51):
The new book if you listeners,if you didn't catch all of the
introduction is called beingFully Known.
Being Fully Known it isavailable now and listen.
If you thought that her bookabout rest was going to change
your life, this book is amazing.
So first let's talk about DrSandra.
What inspired you to writebeing Fully Known, especially
(02:15):
now?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (02:16):
Yeah, I felt like the conversation on
rest wasn't complete.
You know, I understand quite afew people, as you'd mentioned,
had had an experience where justunderstanding there are more
than one type of rest, thatsleep is not the only thing
that's needed for us to feelrestored.
I know that for myself, thatrevelation and the seven types
of rest changed my life, but Ialso realized that even after
(02:38):
that there was, there was levelsof restlessness that still
remained that had nothing to dowith any of those seven, and I
needed to go deeper into what isthis?
What is this continued level ofrestlessness Like?
There's this undergirding thatkeeps me slightly stressed all
the time, and I started toreally just understand within
(03:00):
myself and through the guidanceof Holy Spirit that it was
within myself and through theguidance of Holy Spirit that it
was.
It's really a lack of rest,specifically in allowing myself
to be me.
You know, I am in professionalsettings oftentimes and I find
that I'm living up toexpectations of other people.
I have high expectations ofmyself.
(03:21):
I'm constantly kind of in thisambition driven mode and
starting to really reflect onwho am I, apart from my roles,
my titles and my accomplishments, and can I rest in that, and so
that's what this book goesdeeper into.
Belinda Gaston (03:39):
And that is a huge question who am I beyond
these titles and these roles?
And I think we often get socaught up in being all the
things and not reallyunderstanding who we are that
this book is relevant and listenfor our listeners.
I have started reading thisbook and I have to.
I tell you, I have to read itand put it down because it does
(04:01):
offer some challenging questionsbut also some practical advice,
and so one of the things thatyou talk about is beholding and
becoming and belonging, and so Iwant to talk a little bit about
that framework.
Can you describe what you meanwhen you talk about beholding
and becoming and belonging tosomeone who may not understand
(04:24):
what that means?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (04:26):
Yeah, this is to me, this is the
journey that we get to walk onin this process of being known,
and it starts with being knownby God and knowing him.
So it's him knowing us and usknowing him.
So that's the first part thebeholding.
The becoming is really after wespend focused attention on God,
(04:46):
after we spend time beholding,we become what we behold, we
begin to transform into theimage of Christ.
We actually can see moreclearly the aspects of God's
character that we have inside ofus, that maybe we haven't
allowed to come to the surfaceyet, and so that becoming is a
deeper awareness I guess is thebest word of ourselves through
(05:09):
the lens of Christ and throughwhat we see about and know and
learn about God.
And then that third aspect ofthat as we begin to fully
understand ourselves more andsee God more clearly, we are
bolder, we are more confidentand we are able to then step
into true places of belonging.
(05:30):
Most of the time when we say, oh, I feel like I belong in this
group, or I feel like I foundwhere I belong, we're actually
saying I think I found the placewhere I fit in.
It's like I look like everybodyelse, I sound like everybody
else.
This doesn't stretch me.
This is really comfortable.
You can drop me in the mix andI'm just blend right in.
(05:51):
That is not true belonging,because you're still fitting in
and kind of conforming to thisworld in that situation.
True belonging is when youuniquely fit a space.
It does not matter whatanything else looks like, Does
not matter what else ishappening in the space.
You feel the God void in thatlocation.
(06:12):
You're bringing in hischaracter, You're bringing in an
aspect of his nature, You'rebringing in something that is
specifically and unique to you,based off of your past
experiences, your dramas andtraumas and how you have beheld
him in your personal life andwho you've become through that
process.
Those are the places ofbelonging that allow us to be
(06:35):
ourselves without limit, withouthaving to worry about what is
someone thinking, because you'veshown up with a level of
boldness that only comes whenyou know yourself well.
Belinda Gaston (06:46):
And I think that's one of the concepts, dr
Sandra, of the book that I founda bit not really challenging,
but you really turn things onits head for me in that when
you're thinking about theconcept of belonging because
I've always kind of picturedbelonging as these are.
You know, as you describedearlier, this is my place, this
(07:09):
is where people are like me,this is where people think like
me and to think about.
Well, wait a minute, whathappens when you go into a space
where people don't look likeyou or they don't think like you
?
Does that mean that you don'tbelong in that space?
And so I would like to talkabout belonging when you are
(07:31):
different, right, and so thispodcast is geared towards women
who lead and many of the spacesthat women are leading in.
They may be the only woman, orthey may be the only person that
looks like them or talks likethem.
Or even, if we take our faith,you may be the only woman or
they may be the only person thatlooks like them or talks like
them.
Or even, if we take our faith,you may be the only believer in
Christ in a space.
(07:51):
Yet you're encouraging us toreally be fully known and to
seek and to find that space ofbelonging.
And so if we have a leader whois in that space where I'm not
like everyone else, is itpossible to find belonging in a
space like that?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (08:12):
That is the space you are most likely
to find true belonging.
Because when we I love what youdescribed there, because I
don't put belonging andcommunity in the same bucket, I
don't put belonging andcommunity in the same bucket I
can be in community with peoplewho look similar to me, but
those communities may changebecause I may not always look
(08:33):
like that.
So I'm, you know, I'm 20 years,I'm a clinical physician, and
so I found community with otherdoctors who are working in the
hospital and doing, you know, 60hour a week clinical work,
because I look just like them,I'm living a similar life as
them.
When I started working indifferent ways, when I started
(08:54):
becoming more entrepreneurial,all of a sudden that community
didn't, I didn't fit in anymore.
And that's the problem when weconfuse community with belonging
, because community, if youchange, you don't fit the
community anymore.
And that's the problem when weconfuse community with belonging
, because community, if youchange, you don't fit the
community anymore.
And then you're like I don'tbelong.
Well, it depends on how you'reviewing it, because maybe you're
(09:16):
there to show them thatsomething else is possible.
And so if your belonging isonly wrapped up in the mindset
of community, you missopportunities to actually step
into true belonging, whereyou're the unicorn in the room
but you're filling a god voidbecause you're bringing the
imagination of what is possible,not just what's probable.
(09:41):
And so I, for the person whomight find themselves in a
company you're like, I'm theonly person who's of a certain
gender or even of a, you know, acertain faith or whatever it is
, in that particular communityor in that area, you may not
feel as if you fit in, which isfine, because that fitting in is
fitting in is stressful andbelonging should.
(10:04):
It should feel like social rest,it should feel like I have
showed up as me, and so fittingin is not belonging.
So you're not trying to fit in.
But belonging is so much deeperthan that.
Belonging is allowing yourselfto be who you are in that space,
and recognizing that thedifferences is why you belong
(10:26):
there.
You're bringing a completion tothe puzzle, because if no one's
in that space who can speak ina way that they understand being
a woman or they understandbeing a certain race or they
understand being a certainreligion, if no one is filling
that void, is that picturecomplete?
(10:47):
Does it have a fullness to it?
Is it bringing a whole realityto the question that your
company or that your division isasking no, and so we have to
then get the leadership insideof us to be willing to speak in
our places of belonging.
Belinda Gaston (11:09):
That is so good.
I feel like we need a moment ofpause there, because we often
do associate belonging withcommunity, and I think what
you've said really does clarifythat, and so I think all of this
, this conversation, and eventhe book, continues to encourage
(11:31):
us to be well emotionally,mentally, spiritually.
I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about emotional
wellness, why it's critical forleaders, especially for women of
faith.
Why is it important that weunderstand and find our space
(11:51):
and understand where we belongand get these things in
alignment.
Why is that important for womenwho lead?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (12:00):
Yeah, emotional wellness is a
foundation really for being ableto live in a place of being
known and not people pleasing,and not being limited in your
beliefs because of past traumasand dramas and all the other
stuff that we may have gonethrough.
So I find it as if we look atkind of our lives and our work,
(12:31):
the things that we do as aleader, if we look at it as a
tree, emotional wellness is likethe roots of that tree.
If your emotions are not deeplyrooted, then you're going to be
blown over whenever somethinghappens that's outside of your
norm.
Most leaders the battle thatthey have, the reason that they
get stuck or stunted growth, ifwe're using the tree analogy,
the reason that happens isbecause they refuse to allow
(12:52):
themselves to process, throughthe emotions that are toxic, the
parts of their root system thatneed to be uprooted and that
need reframing and need to bere-evaluated.
And a big aspect of that isbecause true leaders go through
phases of what I call the setapart season and the unknown and
(13:16):
they fluctuate back and forthbetween those two as they go
higher and higher, because eachnew level is an unknown.
Each new level has its ownstressors and particulars and
periods of pruning, the setapart time that's needed.
And so when we have, we havethis mindset that it's just kind
(13:40):
of a straight shot up up theladder.
You know, whether it's thecorporate ladder, the
entrepreneurial ladder orwhatever it is, it's just a
straight shot up and you don'thave to have any growing pains
and you don't have to have anytesting of your faith and you
don't have to have any, you know, extension of your trusting and
knowledge of trusting God.
It's a live causes worsening ofthose, because our emotions
(14:02):
want a level of stability and,like definite structure, our
emotions want to always be incontrol.
You know, if we think about theway we approach emotions, we
don't want to lose.
Control is how we define ouremotions.
But true emotional wellness isthat you have periods of time
where you realize I don't knowhow, what to feel in this moment
(14:28):
and I need to simply stop andget divine guidance on what it
is is going on inside of me.
And if you're a leader andyou've ever experienced this,
you know exactly what I'mtalking about.
I just checked the box offthree goals and I'm still not
happy.
I just won such and such awardand I'm not satisfied.
(14:50):
I just got the promotion andthat stresses me more than when
I was trying to get thepromotion.
It's like I don't know what tofeel, and so then a lot of us
just shut our emotions down.
And that's where we have a lotof people right now.
They're in grind and they don'tknow what to feel and they
don't want to feel because theydon't know what they're feeling.
And so with emotional wellnessparticularly with people of
(15:13):
faith, but in general, emotionalwellness is the healing of that
process where you realize thatI have to feel it and experience
it to get the emotionalresilience from it and the
growth and the strength thatcomes from that.
And if I just keep trying tobreak it under the rug and keep
(15:35):
going, I'm never going to get toa higher level because I'm not
actually letting the roots growdeep enough.
Belinda Gaston (15:43):
I love how you phrase this because it's sparked
another thought for me that Iknow it's come up on this show
before and I know that some ofour listeners are thinking about
this.
I think that leaders we know,as particularly women who lead,
we know, okay, we got to dealwith our emotions, one of the
questions that keeps coming back.
(16:04):
I get messages and thank youlisteners for sending me text
messages.
I appreciate keep them coming.
But one of the messages I getoften is this idea of the safety
to even think about this right,that the safety you're creating
a safe space to reflect on theemotions, to understand our
(16:26):
belonging, because as a leader,you have to keep going, right?
Is that what you talked about?
Is you put it on the road?
You just keep going, you grind,grind, grind, and some leaders
feel like that's a weakness totake a moment to do that, to
find the time and the space.
So what would you say?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (16:43):
Yes, what would you say?
It definitely is not a weakness.
I would say that is the liethat the enemy is probably.
If you're saying that toyourself, that is the lie the
enemy is using to keep you stuck.
That is the lie that the enemyis using to keep you burned out,
stressed out, always feelinglike everything's so hard.
It's simply just a lie.
(17:03):
Rest is about restoration, andit's about that's what I talk
about in sacred rest.
Rest is about restoration andit's restoring you back to a
place of being able to do thework God's given you to do.
And so when you start seeingemotional rest is what we're
discussing emotional well-being,emotional rest.
When you start seeing emotionalrest, or any type of rest
(17:24):
really that you might bedeficient in whether it's
physical, mental, spiritual,emotional, social, sensory or
creative, any of the seven youget deficient in any of those
and you feel like I don't havetime to deal with this.
You are already under his yoke,the yoke of the enemy, because
(17:46):
if he can keep you from fillingup a bucket God's trying to pour
from, how are you ever going toget into the fullness of that
promise?
You don't.
You're not even equipped withwhat he's trying to get to you
because you're refusing the giftof restoration in the areas of
your gifting.
So with emotions, we have tostart realizing that the
stronger those emotional rootsare, the stronger I'm able to
(18:08):
evaluate what I'm feeling,experience it, process through
it, whether I'm processing witha friend or a therapist or a
coach or a pastor, whether I'mprocessing through it, through
like some type of artwork, likemy son, his emotional rest.
He goes up and he plays hisguitar and I can tell you what
he's feeling based on what kindof music is coming out of his
(18:29):
room, because that's how heprocesses.
Some people paint, some peopledoodle, some people journal.
So you get to choose kind ofwhat it is you're going to use
to process through emotions.
But we all have to do it and itdoesn't have to be this huge
carved out period of time Likeyou don't need to go spend 20
hours, you know, on the weekend,doing emotional rest.
(18:50):
What I like to do is, at the endof each day I asked myself
where did I get hit?
Maybe it's a patient that madea snide remark, you know that
said something that made me feellike, okay, they didn't really
show much respect in thatsituation or they didn't act
like they knew what I was doing,or or I don't, you know,
whatever it is.
So I'm going to deal with thatemotion of feeling belittled, or
(19:14):
maybe it's.
I had an opportunity to come upand instead of like being like,
yeah, I think this is what I'msupposed to do, I'm going to say
yes and sign up for it, butinstead I'm like God, me, am I
the right person?
So now I'm insecure.
So where did that emotion comefrom?
If we don't deal with thisstuff, it's going to keep
(19:35):
showing up.
So the next time that anopportunity comes along and it's
big and I'm thinking, oh, I gotthe right girl for this one,
that insecurity keeps popping up.
Whereas if I deal with it and Istart asking questions like God
, what in me feels unworthy,holy Spirit, help me, deal with
me, help me deal with the partsof me that doesn't feel like I'm
(19:57):
worthy to get that kind ofopportunity.
What makes me feel like that?
If we don't deal with thosethings, they just keep popping
up over and over again in ourlives.
Belinda Gaston (20:07):
So I love that.
So for our listeners, here'sone practical step is to take
each day and do that reflectionthat Dr Saunders is talking
about when did I get hit today?
That's what she does.
She asks the question, wheredid I get hit?
And then ask yourself questionsabout why you responded the way
you responded or why you feelwhat you feel.
(20:28):
I think that is a greatpractical step.
I want to talk a little bit morebecause something that stood
out to me as I'm well again, I'mstill reading the book.
But as I'm reading the book,something that stands out to me
is this idea of feeling seen,and it's triggered for me, which
is why I put the book.
Something that stands out to meis this idea of feeling seen
and it's triggered for me, whichis why I put the book down this
(20:49):
third time.
It's triggered for me placeswhere I may have felt
misunderstood you know what Imean Like I thought I was being
clear, I thought I waspresenting myself one way and
then it was misunderstood andfor me I've had to really lean
into community for that.
So I'd like to talk about that.
Part of what you're saying inyour book is listen, you can be
(21:12):
fully known, you can be seen.
What role does community playin all of this and how do we
cultivate these spaces so thatif we are in a spot where we
feel misunderstood and we needto process this, we can go to
these people in our communityand find some reprieve?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (21:33):
Yeah, community is important because
we all want that sense of peoplehave our back and we're
understood.
Social rest is one of the typesof rest I talk about and it's
the rest you experience whenyou're around people who are
life giving, so they can talkyour talk, they walk the walk,
they get you.
You don't have to explain whatyou do and how you do it.
(21:53):
It's like they get your life.
But sometimes those aren't theplaces of deepest belonging.
They can be, but oftentimesthey're not the places of
deepest belonging, but they areplaces of safety and comfort.
And so I think it's importantto have communities where you
have safety and comfort andcamaraderie and you've had that
(22:15):
sense of social rest that comesfrom that.
But on the other side of thatthere's another type of social
rest which is that deeper levelof belonging which is where
you're stepping into alsopurpose and you're stepping also
into giftings and talents,where you're able to be
completely unleashed, so tospeak.
You're not having to fit intoyour crowd, you're able to
(22:40):
actually stand out purposefullyand because you're needed in
that space.
And so I think we need to haveboth and with community, I think
the big part about community ishaving a community where you're
given kind of full license tojust speak your truth, because
(23:01):
then community brings in thatemotional rest that's needed as
well.
It's not just the social restof I'm with people who know what
my life is like, but now I'mwith people who know what my
life is like and I feel thefreedom to speak about it openly
, without reservation.
For example, I go once a yearto this event up in Myrtle Beach
(23:22):
with a group of other Christianauthors and speakers and
everybody there has, you know,they're in full time ministry,
basically of some sort oranother.
So they're speaking, you know,multiple, 10 plus times a year.
They've written a couple ofbooks each and every one of them
that's there.
So when I'm up there with thisgroup of women I feel I'm in my
(23:46):
community.
I don't have to explain to themwhat it's like to have to fight
with an event planner oversomething stupid.
I don't have to explain withthem what a writer is for a
speaker.
They know basic stuff.
I don't have to.
If I'm having a conversationhalf the time isn't me
explaining stuff to them.
They get it and so I can have alevel of conversation with them
(24:08):
, because they don't even knowwhat I'm talking about, and so
that is a community that givesme a great deal of social rest,
but I don't find it to be theplace of my deepest belonging.
In other words, when I'm thereand I've spoken there, you know.
So it's not like I don't feellike I can serve there I can,
(24:29):
but that is not the place whereGod's greatest glory, I would
say from my life.
He gets it in places where hestretches me and I step into
moments where I realize if Iweren't there speaking on behalf
of my father's business,there's not many other people
who could do in that moment atthat time.
(24:50):
Because I've been, and it canbe on a large scale or small
scale.
You know, in the book I shareabout an experience in the
emergency room actually, with afamily where the mother had
passed, basically, and she had asmall child who was there.
He ran out of the family roomwhen he heard his dad wailing
(25:13):
and when I saw this childbolting toward the door.
We had barely gotten his mother, like clothed, back up from the
all the stuff you do trying torevive somebody, and she came in
pretty much lifeless.
So I saw this little personbolting toward the door.
(25:34):
It was like a momentary when Isay it feels like the heavens
open.
It was like in one moment I waslike there's no way this child
is going to see his mother likethis.
I literally flung myself infront of this child and he's
beating my legs with his hands.
I want to see mama.
And then just burst out intotears and I was like God, I
(25:55):
don't know why you have me as aphysician, but I know as someone
who lost her mother at a youngage.
I was meant to be here at thisvery moment Because I was not
going to let that child see whatwas going on on that table.
There could have been a hundredother doctors that had that
opportunity in that day, butthey would not have been able to
minister to that child the wayI did, because I felt his pain.
(26:18):
It's like I'm looking at himand I know what part of his life
is going to feel like from thisday forward.
And so I think we often don'trecognize the specificity of
that.
Don't recognize the specificityof that.
I've been at events where I'mspeaking to groups of people who
(26:39):
have nothing to do with God,jesus or anything else Christian
, and you know there areorganizations where I can't even
I'm sharing seven types of restand I'm having to share
spirituality in a very likeinclusive way so that they can
actually receive the messagethat I'm trying to share with
them.
And at the end, grown men arecoming up and this is a business
event literally almostoverwhelmed, like almost crying
(27:05):
tears in their eyes, overwhelmed, and say you have no idea how
much I needed that.
Ceo retreats of like Fortune100 companies where I'm doing a
retreat and people pull me asideand share some of their deepest
, darkest stuff.
They probably never toldanybody ever and I'm literally a
stranger, but I know I am therewith a very intentional kingdom
(27:30):
mandate.
They may not be ready for, butthey're ready for God's love.
And God needs someone who's notafraid to be Jesus and not have
the privilege of even sayingJesus maybe in some of the
situation, but has been throughthe beholding and the belonging
and have stepped into a place ofbecoming where, however, god is
(27:54):
leading them to fill the voidin that space.
They have the boldness and thecourage to do that, and so I
think we have to get leaderskind of unlocked from what they
think leadership is.
The biggest leadership you willdo is leading yourself out of
your own fear, out of your owninsecurity, out of the smallness
of what you think your life canbe and how you think God can
(28:17):
use you.
That's the biggest part ofleadership you're going to do.
Leading people is easy.
Leading you, that's hard,because you will fight yourself
to the point that you will talkyourself out of the greatest
levels of experiences andexposures that God actually has
possible for you.
Belinda Gaston (28:36):
So that leads to the next question.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (28:37):
So what are steps people can take
to becoming yeah, the first stepI would probably say is to
start going deeper in how youview God in your day-to-day life
, because the beholding aspectof it is the foundation of it.
How are you seeing God thatdoesn't reflect how you're
(29:00):
seeing you?
You know, if we just start fromthe very first words in the
beginning, right?
So if we just start with thevery first part of the Bible,
god is constantly speakingcreatively.
God is imaginative and creative, like.
Are you allowing that part ofyourself to have freedom?
Are you allowing yourself tohave imagination and creativity
(29:25):
about what your life can looklike, about what you are capable
of, about the gifts and thetalents inside of you?
Or have you boxed up some ofyour own imagination and
creativity?
Because you got a job, you knowyou got the thing you do and
you're making a check and it'sall good and God will keep you
know.
Sometimes that is what he wantsyou to do and you'll stay there
(29:46):
for a season.
But when you start feeling kindof that stirring, you know, I
hear people say do you feel likethere's more?
And for most of us it's notthis feeling of I need to do
more stuff.
We got plenty of stuff to doFor a lot of us, the more that
we are hungering for is moreunderstanding of who we are and
(30:06):
what's inside of us.
And so that's where I wouldbegin with the beholding time in
his word, time and reflectionon how, what you see in his word
and what you see of him in yourlife, what does that saying
about you?
You know anything that youadmire about the life of Jesus
that you're like wow, I wish Icould whatever fill in the blank
(30:28):
.
That's a place to sit andreflect.
I wish I could go in and fliptables, or I wish I could raise
the dead or whatever it is,whatever it is you're seeing
that you that you're like.
I wish I could see some aspectof that in my life.
That is a heart desire and thenopen yourself up to God.
What would that look like inthis day and age?
Belinda Gaston (30:51):
I don't think that we often take a moment to
do that, but it's important.
I never thought about lookingat the characteristics of Jesus
and what are those things thatJesus did that I might want to
do.
So I appreciate that, and so wetalked about beholding, and in
the book you give some othersteps.
(31:13):
We talked about beholding andin the book, you give some other
steps.
I would like to ask for womenwho are going through this
journey and I highly recommendleaders that you get this book
and actually walk this out,because, as I said, what I
appreciate about your writing,dr Sandra, is that, though
you're writing this and it'svery practical, but it's also
personal, you can make it verypersonal, and so, as people are
walking through these steps tobecoming, I want to talk about
(31:39):
the challenges.
So there are always obstacles.
What would you say is thebiggest obstacle to becoming?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (31:55):
book.
I think it's really importantto just be real about some of
those.
One of them is I define it asfriendly fire coming under
friendly fire, and it'sbasically the people in your
life that give you pushback whenyou start changing, because
they're used to you beinghowever you've used to be and so
you know if you've always beenkind of the quiet, reserved, shy
person and then you startactually becoming fully known
and developing into someonewho's not so fearful and who
(32:18):
understands who they are inChrist and has a handle really
on their identity and all ofthat, you're not going to act
the same way, you're not goingto be the same person they've
always known.
And so they start pushing backwhen you start trying to do
things and so recognizing thatoftentimes, when that happened,
it's not necessarily that theythink you're dumb for trying to
(32:40):
do whatever it is or that you'renot capable.
It's oftentimes the fact thatthey are grieving or scared
about how it's going to affectthem, because now, all of a
sudden, you know, you decide youwant to start a business.
Now they're scared becausethey're like, well, how is this
going to affect our income?
You making the change.
It's about their owninsecurities and fears that
(33:03):
you're awakening and kind ofbringing to light.
Another one I talk about is, asI mentioned earlier, the set
apart season For some.
When they go through thisperiod where they've heard from
God or they really feel likethey know what God is calling
them to, the next that he'scalling them to, that they
hesitate and get stuck in thatseason where things look like
(33:25):
nothing's happening, it lookslike there's no growth, it looks
like I'm just kind of hangingout in this one area and I can't
really see any evidence of Godmoving or doing anything.
And they don't really realizethat during that time, that's
when that emotional wholeness wewere talking about happens,
that's when the roots grow.
You don't see the tree on top.
When the roots are going deeper, it looks like nothing's
(33:47):
happening, but everything that'shappening is on the inside.
And so during that time, mostof the work that's being done is
the work on you, it's the workin your heart to prepare you,
for the thing he's calling youto is to make you unshakable, so
that you're deep enough in himso that you're not swayed by so
many things.
(34:07):
And then the third one I wouldprobably say is a huge obstacle
is a lot of us throw upfirewalls in our lives as it
relates to the Spirit of God,and by that what I mean is the
easiest way I could probablydescribe this is you get as much
God as you're willing to letrun free in your life.
(34:28):
So if you want to know whatall's happening and you want all
the details and all the stepsand you want God to lay you out
the blueprint of your life,you're going to get very little
of his spirit flowing throughyour life.
If you look at the Bible, mostof the people he's like go here
and I'll tell you on the way.
It's like.
You don't get all the details.
(34:48):
You get just enough to be ableto make a step, make a move, and
so we have to allow ourselvesthe ability to let our need to
know drop and let our trust rise, because that's what really
living a life in the spiritlooks like.
It's a hands off adventure.
You're not.
(35:08):
Your hands aren't on the wheeland your foot's not on the gas.
You're literally just sittingin the car, but you're willing
to be on the journey with them.
Belinda Gaston (35:18):
I think that's a great place for us to end.
I mean, I think leaderslistening to this can relate to
everything you said and areprobably at this point thinking,
man, I need to, one, pick upthis book, but, two, I need to
do some reflection and perhapssome reframing of some things.
So, before we go, I would liketo know if you have any final
thoughts, anything.
(35:39):
If you had to leave thisconversation with one thing you
wanted the leaders listening toremember, what would that be?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (35:47):
Yeah, the one thing I would probably
say I would want them toremember is that there's a life
on the other side of what youthink is possible, and most of
us, when we say possible, youknow something looks impossible.
What we're actually thinking isit's improbable because the
(36:07):
word of God says all things arepossible.
So once you get your beliefsystem to line up with the word
of God, that you're not lookingat the probability of something
but the possibility of something, it completely rearranges how
you step into every area of yourlife.
You step into there with the.
(36:27):
One of the words I talk aboutin the book is with your Hanini.
It's a Hebrew word that saysGod.
Before you even ask thequestion, my answer is yes,
that's a life that he can use todo and be glorified in a way
that you never thought orimagined.
Belinda Gaston (36:45):
This was such a great conversation.
Again, I highly recommend ourlisteners get this book, just
like Sacred Rest.
I think this is a life-changingbook, so I appreciate your
obedience and even writing it.
Dr.
Saundra, if people wanted toconnect with you, what's the
best way that people can connectwith you?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith (37:05):
Yeah, I'd love to invite you to a book
club that we have this summer,starts in June, goes through
July on the book and it's thetitle of the book being fully
knowncom.
So if you just type that in,I'll get you right to the sign
up for the book club.
I also have a podcast.
I choose my best life that youwere on Belinda and be happy to
(37:25):
have them over to listen to ourconversation there as well.
Belinda Gaston (37:29):
Yes, excellent.
Thank you Definitely join thebook club.
Our conversation was amazing.
I love Dr Sandra's podcast.
If you are looking forinspiration and new information,
you definitely have to check itout.
I will put all of the links toeverything in our show notes so,
if you are listening, you canget everything that you need in
(37:51):
order to connect with Dr Sandra.
Dr Sandra, thank you so much foryour time.
This has been a greatconversation, thought-provoking
conversation, reflectiveconversation.
I appreciate you so much forsaying yes, it's been a pleasure
to be here with you.
Thank you, and so for ourlisteners, you can again follow
(38:11):
Dr Sandra.
All of the links will be in theshow notes, as always.
I appreciate you listening tothe Grace to Lead podcast.
Remember to subscribe to thepodcast and share the podcast
for season two.
If you haven't heard season one, go back and listen.
You can connect with us onBelindaGastoncom.
Within every podcast platform,there's a way for you to sign up
(38:35):
and follow us so that you getall of the things Grace to Lead.
Again, I'm happy that you arelistening and until we meet
again next week, remember youare indeed Grace to Lead.
Bye-bye.
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