June 6, 2025 • 46 mins
Denise Payne returns to share her expertise on premarital preparation and relationship health using the Prepare and Enrich curriculum, which helps couples understand their compatibility in crucial areas like finances, communication, and spiritual beliefs.
• Certified premarital counselor who works with couples across the nation through a six-session format
• Communication consistently ranks as the biggest issue in relationships, even after decades of marriage
• Using "I statements" and reflective listening techniques can transform conflict conversations
• Understanding the five love languages (quality time, words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts, physical touch) helps partners love each other effectively
• Incompatibility isn't necessarily a red flag - complementary differences often strengthen relationships
• Spiritual belief compatibility creates a foundation that positively impacts all other areas of marriage
• Couples can intentionally create new family cultures that break unhealthy generational patterns
• Developing a family mission statement helps establish healthy patterns from the beginning
• The goal shouldn't be to "live happily ever after" but to "live healthily ever after"
• Long-term marriages stay vibrant by evolving together, trying new activities, and adapting to different seasons of life
Connect with Denise Payne:
Website: www.christianpremaritalcounselor.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/careercrossroadscounseling/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Nicole Cater, your host, founder and
servant leader of GracevilleCommunity.
I want to thank you for tuningin to Graceville Community
Podcast.
This is a safe space, a placein which we just share stories
of how God has touchedindividuals' lives all across
the world and how they are nowimpacting the kingdom of God.
(00:21):
Thank you for tuning in.
Blessings to you, hello,welcome, welcome, welcome.
I am uber excited you guys hearthat Uber excited for today's
show.
We have a returning guest, onewho I am so grateful for, denise
(00:43):
Payne.
And so, before we get started,I do want to tell you, listeners
, if you have not listened toour previous recording with
Denise, you need to go back andlisten to it.
I mean, it was phenomenal.
Just talking about connectingwith areas that you're
passionate about, connectingwith your God-given purpose,
(01:05):
right, and how to find that.
I mean, from that episode Iwill say I signed up my three
teens to work with Denise and itwas so impactful I felt like a
weight was lifted off of me.
Yes, there's somebody else inmy village to help.
So thank you, denise.
We're so happy to have you onGraceville community.
(01:26):
Help me.
Welcome, denise once again.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Hi Nicole, it's so great to be back.
I'm happy to be here yet againchatting with you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yes, well, I'm so glad to have you back.
I mean, we were havingconversation before we press
record, which tends to happensometimes.
I'm like we should have pressedrecord.
I'm excited to talk about ourtopic today though Premarital
right, like once you made thatdecision to say yes, this is the
(02:01):
one.
You've said yes, um, I know howimportant premarital
consideration, premaritalcounseling, premarital um I
would really say like evenmentorship is before going into
marriage.
Um, in our own story, we had avery short process of premarital
(02:23):
, and I do believe that some ofthat led to not being prepared
for the things that hit us inmarriage the good and the bad,
not really having anunderstanding of being prepared
and how to handle them.
And so I know that you workwith couples in premarital
aspects, so please tell us alittle bit about what you do,
and then let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, so I have been utilizing Preparing and Enrich.
It's a curriculum out ofColorado Springs.
It's been around for about 40years.
It's helped 4 million couples.
To date.
I have not helped 4 millioncouples, but it has.
My husband and I actually wewere trained as lay ministers
years ago with it and we workedman about once honestly, once or
(03:07):
twice a year with couples justfor free and kind of meeting
with them, helping them repair.
And then when I became an emptynester and I launched into the
career counseling, I actuallybecame a certified facilitator
and I was able to do compare andenrich on my own.
I do now charge, but I do workwith couples all over the nation
and honestly can dointernationally.
(03:27):
I almost work with a couple inAustria, so like, if you speak
English I can work with you.
But basically what it is is mycouples take an assessment on
compatibility and so thisassessment will give me results
on compatibility in areas suchas finances, conflict resolution
, communication, spiritualbeliefs, family of origin, a
(03:47):
whole host of issues, usuallyabout 12 to 14 areas, even
personality differences.
And then we kind of fine toothcomb those areas in session.
But they have in sessionhomework and out of session
homework and I was able toactually work it out.
The Lord and I we kind ofco-labored together, but they do
these in six 90-minute sessions.
(04:09):
So the curriculum essentiallyis usually about 12 weeks, but I
just smushed it all togetherand the Lord and I worked it out
to where I just meet withcouples six times for 90 minutes
, and sometimes I'm working witha couple right now we're just
going to meet once a monthbecause they're kind of
pre-engaged, and so some, likeI'm working with a couple right
now we're just gonna meet once amonth because they're kind of
pre engaged, and so some couplesI'll work with, they want to
work with me just to see if theyeven want to go down the
(04:33):
engagement route, and so I alsodo work with married couples,
but I describe that as noncrisis.
Married meaning.
Crisis to me is current activeaffair, major addiction or
mental health issues, and so,though, I will pass those on,
because technically, even thoughI'm a master's in counseling, I
(04:53):
am not a licensed marriage andfamily therapist.
So I will pass that along to tothe my colleagues under Grand
Junction Counseling, or I'llpass that along to people over
the nation, but anyway, so yeah,so honestly, the non-crisis
marriage is interesting becausesome, a lot of people have not
had premarital and they willhave this great wedding and this
(05:14):
great honeymoon, and thenthey're like, oh my gosh, like
all these issues will pop up andthey've not looked at them,
they've not dealt with them andit kind of freaks them out.
And I, actually, one of thethings I say to my clients is I
I am not freaked out by yourareas of incompatibility.
I'm not freaked out by yourfamily origin.
(05:35):
You just need to know that aGod is calling you guys to like
go down this path, but you needto be willing to put in the work
and show up, and that's the thebig thing it's.
You know I've worked withcouples that they're on their
third or fourth marriages.
I work with couples that theyhave a whole host of both sides
(05:56):
massive issues growing up andtrauma and drama.
And you know some of them arelike, should we even get married
?
Yes, you should get married,but you just need to know you're
probably going to have to worka little harder because you
didn't have great role models.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yes, I love that.
I mean you just said somethingsuper key that I experienced.
Isaiah and I both come fromsome traumatic backgrounds, but
in different ways, right, and soone of the ways we see it play
out often in our marriage and Ionly wish that we had this
wonderful source like youbeforehand we learned during the
(06:29):
marriage and, yes, putting in alot of work, right, a lot of
work, a lot of development.
But Isaiah came from an aspectthat was very traumatic.
I mean we talk about him movingover 40 times before he was of
age 18, not because of military,over 40 times before he was of
age 18, not because of military,but because of just traumatic
circumstances.
You know, I come from a familythat in my mindset I remember
(06:52):
early in our marriage I'm like,no, you're the problem.
Like you come from trauma, Idon't have trauma.
And then I dive into counseling.
I'm like, oh, I have a lot oftrauma, right, and so when we
have that like come together, wewould have issues of trauma, I
mean just even finances, like hewanted to make sure that he
(07:12):
provided and avoided having togo back into a circumstance of
poverty or lack or evictions orthings of that sort that he
would like be so stringent of,like every dollar has to be
saved.
And I come from an aspect ofbecause of the trauma and not
really having anybody tell me no, and me being used to being
(07:32):
bought in the sense of likethey're trying to buy my love,
right, and so I'm like, well,you're telling me, no, that's
not love.
Like you know, you don't loveme, yeah, you don't love me, um,
and so I mean we had somebattles, having to understand
how our backgrounds, how ourupbringings, influence what do
(07:54):
we call it Like attachmenttheory, right, like our love
styles and how-.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Bonding ability to bond.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, yes, absolutely, and so okay, so you work with
couples all over the nation.
I love that.
So if a couple was, you know,considering, and I do, like that
, you said you even work withcouples that are considering
before engagement, right.
Like should we step into thispart?
If a couple is like in theconsideration process, what is
(08:20):
the steps for working with youLike?
Is there any couples thatyou're like?
Oh I just, we won't worktogether.
Or what does the process looklike when they're questioning?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, so I will do.
I offer an introductory phonecall if they want to, but I'll
do an introductory email.
They will sign my intake formsand then, basically, again,
they'll take that, they'll signthose digitally, they'll take
that assessment.
We honestly do dive intocontent the very first session.
So I'm really big on gettingbang for your buck and I charge
(08:53):
the same price as I charge forthe career counseling $75 for 90
minutes and I also pay for theassessment.
So I'm at half price becauseI've chosen not to get licensed,
but I do dive in.
Now I will say I've had a coupleof times one particular couple
I worked with.
It was going to be his secondmarriage.
Honestly, he had struggled withcodependency issues a lot in
(09:16):
his first marriage and youtalked about that and I
recommended some resources.
I'm trying to kind of breakfree from that.
He read the first resource andhe was like, oh my gosh, I'm not
ready to get married yet, youknow.
So, even just that, and so I'llhave them put.
Sometimes I'll't want to take apause.
Sometimes they broken up in thenot because of me, you know,
but just like this stuff getsdialed up.
(09:38):
And there was a particularperson with an addiction, a past
addiction that kind of rearedits ugly head and yeah, so you
know, there is a time for surethey can just pay per session.
There's no commitment andthere's always like you know
what we're going to put this onpause or we're going to wait.
Sometimes couples have gottenmarried earlier than they
(09:59):
thought they would, so they'vegot married during while I'm
working with them.
You know, which is fine.
We just meet after the wedding,it's you know.
I mean, this is these arelifelong concepts.
This is not just, you know, Idon't work with them lifelong,
but I do provide them resourceand tools and how for them to
continue to work on theirmarriage.
This is not just a you take ablue pill, you're ready for
(10:19):
marriage.
You know, this is more justexposing some areas that might
need growth, celebrating areasthat their strengths, and then
providing them with tools, andthen it's up to them to pick up
those tools, you know, and usethem.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So yes, ok.
So you said lifelong and I likethat.
Like we can't just take theblue pill and it magically is
fixed Right.
And you know, even I can speakto, as in our marriage, right
After I mean just celebrating 20years of marriage we still have
consistent like check-in, likeyou know, whether it's with
(10:52):
mentors, whether it's withcounselors, of just check in
right, check the temperatureright, see how things are going,
have someone there to help uswalk through challenging
circumstances, because we knowlife does come with its own
challenges, like we have trialsand tribulations, and so, even
in that, I like how youacknowledge that it's a lifelong
thing and that you give themtools to do this for lifelong,
(11:15):
which I mean the goal ofmarriage right is that we do it
and it is until death do us part.
So you know, when you seecouples struggling, if there was
one area you would say you seethem struggling the most, like
what would that be?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
area.
You would say you see themstruggling the most.
Like what would that be?
So it?
would definitely becommunication and I've been
married we will celebrate 31years next week but we still
struggle with communication.
You can talk to my husband wehad a conversation, this, like
yesterday, you know.
So that is the number one andit's interesting because there's
(11:53):
some statistics that financesand sexual dissatisfaction are
the two things that lead todivorce.
But I do, and I don't know ifthose statistics are within the
church or out of the church.
But what I in my work currently, communication is the biggest,
biggest issue.
Communication is the biggest,biggest issue.
So we do.
Actually, you know, I do havesome tools that I provide for
(12:16):
them.
Regarding increasingcommunication, first of all, I
do love that you check in withyour husband I actually I
recommend this and my husbandand I used to do this on Sunday
nights when our kids were little.
Honestly, we have one adult kidat home right now, and so it's
a little easier to just connectand be together.
But, but one of the things weused to do on Sunday nights is
(12:36):
we would do what I call marriagecheck-in and we would say hey,
how do you think we're doing?
What can I improve on?
And the scale from zero to 10,like 10 being, bliss, you know,
zero being, I want out.
Where would you rate it thisweek?
I mean, it doesn't have to be,you know and then we would pray
together.
So we would just say how can I,how can I pray for you in this
(12:57):
area?
And we would pray together.
But another thing that Irecommend obviously is and I
know this is very communicationone-on-one, but it does work but
using I statements when you'refrustrated, um, instead of you,
blah, blah, blah.
But like I felt sad when youdidn't, uh, take out the trash
after I asked you to three times.
(13:18):
You know um and let's get realUm and so, but also what um?
And I know again, this iscommunication one-on-one, but it
, it, it works with my couples.
But then the response to theperson that you're sort of
confronting would say what Ihear you saying is you're
frustrated or sad because Ididn't take out the trash and
(13:39):
there's so much that can becleared up just by saying can
you repeat that?
Or this is what I heard andobviously the tone is huge and
sometimes it's that they didn'tmean to even, you know, come
across as a frustrated tone.
They just like stubbed theirtoe while they were talking to
you.
And so that's key.
And then also, I feel likethere are different ways to
(14:04):
communicate how much you lovethem in five love languages and
I'm sure you're familiar withthose and for your listeners I
will just it's from Gary Chapmanand he created these a long
time ago, but for simplisticreasons I will just kind of do
just sort of like a very forlack of better word, like a
(14:27):
crude, just you know breakdownof the five language languages
that you guys can get that bookand read it more thoroughly, but
at quality time.
Words of affirmation, acts ofservice, gifts and physical
touch.
And what I find with a lot ofmy couples is they will show
love, how they want to be loved,and so they'll just shower, you
(14:47):
know, shower with gifts Ifthat's the loving language and
then the the you know partner issaying no, I actually don't
feel led by receiving gifts, Iwant words of affirmation or
things like that.
So we do talk about making surethat first of all we do discuss
like how do you feel most loved?
And obviously it changes inseasons.
So I used to be a words ofaffirmation, affirmation girl,
(15:10):
and then I had young children.
Acts of service was right there.
You can just change a diaper,you can do the dishes, so I can
hop in the shower, and so thatchanged and I let my husband
know.
Like you don't even need totell me I'm beautiful, just do
the dishes, please.
Or vacuum, you know.
And so that changes and waxesand wanes, you know, with
(15:31):
different seasons in life.
So we do talk aboutcommunicating in that way as
well, even through physicaltouch and and things like that,
and I know that sounds weird asa way to communicate, but it's
actually how you love them andso, yeah, so those are some of
the you know just a little bitof a recap of some of the
communication things that wediscuss and talk about in
(15:52):
session.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Absolutely.
Well, let me say, like I know,I mean without a doubt, I knew
before we started that you knowyour stuff, but as you were
stating your communication tools, I'm like, yep, we learned to
do that.
Yep, we learned that.
Like these are all the steps forour listeners.
These are all the steps that weput in place and we were coming
(16:15):
out of marriage with crisis andthese were some of the starting
tools to really impacting ourmarriage.
I mean, we still do it now.
My favorite way ofcommunicating is when you did
this, I felt this, right, youknow, in the aspect of love
languages, um, you know, I dowant to let our listeners know,
(16:37):
even if you're walking into amarriage and maybe you have
children, maybe you're comingtogether as a blended family, or
maybe you're listening andyou're like, oh, this is great
communication tools, right, andI'm not premarital, but hey, we
all need this Cause.
Like you said, denise, you're 31years in, I'm 20 years in, I'm
like we still use these tools,right.
But as a mom, I will say lovelanguages changed the way my
(16:59):
kids receive love from me.
I would say maybe about five,six years ago, I had a point
where I learned and realized theway I was loving my husband was
not how he needed to receivelove or how he was receiving
love for me.
And so when I discovered thatwith him, I thought I wonder if
my kids understand that this isme loving them.
(17:20):
And so we had this conversation.
We taught them the five lovelanguages.
There's a quick YouTube videoy'all where there it goes over
the five love languages and itwas like a seven minute video to
help, for at that point theywere like a nine and ten I think
, and so you know we taught themthe love languages.
And then I had them tell melike which one do you receive
(17:42):
love from?
And so one kid's access service.
I'm like, oh, that's why hecares when I actually do his
laundry for him, right?
or like you know, the other kidwas very clear with gifts and
I'm like that makes sense,because you will ask for the
$200 item Like it's nothing.
You know you are good, yes, youknow.
And another one, she was likeI'll take a quality time.
(18:02):
I'm like that makes sense,cause all you want to do is that
quality time and physical touch.
You want to sit and cuddle andwatch a movie with me and so
forth, and so it really gave meinsight on how I can love them
best.
And so, even as a parent, Ithink this goes into even your
relationship with friends.
I think even your relationshipin the workplace.
(18:24):
Gary Chapman has a book that Idid not know about.
I have to look up the titlebecause I only found out about
it being.
On this last cruise we took, wewalked by a gentleman and he
had a book that said like love,languages in the workplace.
Oh, I didn't know that, yes, andI was like what, where have you
(18:45):
been all my life?
Yes, so, as this lovelygentleman is like sitting by the
side of the ocean, reallywanting to just enjoy his time
with his book, I'm like, sir,how is that?
Hi, but it's so impactful.
And so those tools you gave, Iknow, you know, like you said,
they're like communication,one-on-one.
But back to basics, right.
(19:06):
Sometimes it's going back tothe basics to help solve the
things that are sitting in frontof us.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, and you know, interesting with the words of
affirmation, because we have ahomework assignment that they're
supposed to give what they calldaily compliments, but with the
words of affirmation.
I encourage my clients to do adifferent type of compliment,
because it's easy to say, well,you look, pretty well, you look
pretty well, you look, and thattakes no creativity on their
(19:33):
part.
And just to even think through,like how can I and I actually
say I would love for you tocompliment them in an area
you've never complimented thembefore, it gets them looking at
(19:53):
the positive actions thatthey're doing versus the
criticism and the criticalaspect of what they're doing
wrong, cause we're all human andwe're all going to do stuff
wrong but to really have lookingthrough the lens of you know
how can I cheerleading champion,you know my fiance or spouse
and to go in daily with thatmindset?
And then I'll follow up and I'llsay how did that go and did you
use I statements and did youknow?
(20:14):
And honestly, if you get intothe routine where these kind of
become rote, then you fall backon those when you're in those
heated discussions Because it'salmost like a muscle memory.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm notgoing to interrupt, I'm going to
let them do their I statementsand I'm going to reflect back.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
So, absolutely One of the things I think about is
just recently.
We do like a vision meeting atthe beginning of every year,
typically like my husband and Iwill individually meet and then
we'll come together.
We like to try and get two daysaway and just really go for
like okay, lord, what do youhave for us this year?
We kind of go through the list,like of priorities, like okay,
lord, what do you have for usthis year?
We kind of go through the listof priorities like okay, what
are we committing to with ourrelationship with God, to each
(20:59):
other, a spouse, then to thekids, and then to church and
extended family and so forth.
And so we were doing that and,like you said, the way you
receive love will changedepending on the seasons right.
You're in.
And so in previous seasons wehad to be very intentional to
have that weekly date night, tohave that weekly time together.
(21:20):
And now we're in a season where, yes, there's three teams and
so they all are kind of doingtheir own thing, and we find
ourselves sitting sometimes likehey, it's you and I like what
do you want to do?
Right?
And so as he was laying out,like okay, this is our date
night budget, I'm like well,hold on, I don't think we need
weekly date nights.
(21:41):
Like can we just identify oncea quarter to just go away and
have intentional time away?
But we're, we're seeing eachother, we're having these
conversations and those weeklydate night seasons are not
necessarily what's needed inthis moment.
And so I remember his reaction.
He was like what I mean?
Yes?
(22:02):
Like oh, my goodness, becausewe had years of me saying like I
need quality time, I want thistime once a week, you know, so
forth.
So he was just like you gottabe kidding me.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Like yes, we could do that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yes, but I think that just speaks to why it's so
important to keep thesecommunication skills to.
You know, do those check-insand go through like, what does
your spouse need at this time,at this season in their life?
Right, you know, and keeping inthat in mind, many of us did
(22:37):
not get to see that in themarriages that went before us,
right?
So many of us, especially if welook at the differences in time
.
We look at the difference inhow we see therapy now, how we
see, like, talking about yourweaknesses and getting resources
for those that was not there IfI even consider 20 years ago,
(22:59):
40 years ago, let alone 60 yearsago.
And so a lot of us did not haverole models that we can
necessarily say was a true,healthy marriage of family
origin.
And so when you have couplesthat come to you and they're
coming from a place of that thatthey didn't get to see that
healthy role model, how do yourecommend them thriving in their
(23:22):
marriage?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Sure, it's a great question and it comes up quite a
bit, and so basically, first ofall, I remind them that they
have a chance to create a wholenew family culture and so they
do not need to bring anything in.
And we actually have a homeworkin session thing where they say
what do you want to bring, ifanything?
(23:43):
One thing like what's one,because we don't have time to go
into it.
You know all the things, butwhat's one tradition or one
thing you want to bring in?
If anything, what do you notwant to bring in?
And we I've had clients thatare like I want to bring nothing
from my family fortune, which Itotally respect.
But sometimes it's nice, evenif you've had just some, a lot
of trauma, but they're like wow,I really liked that we did
cinnamon rolls on Christmasmorning.
(24:04):
You know no-transcript Like.
You can make those changes, youget those resources, get the
therapy, get the books, get that.
you know that you actually canbreak generational curses, you
(24:26):
can break family lines, you canbreak patterns, but you have to
show up and do the work, andthat you know.
I kind of keep reiterating that, but I love to get them
dreaming about.
Oh, I don't have to fall backinto that family culture and we
do goal setting at the lastsession.
But what are, you know, whatare some goals that you have,
(24:48):
that short-term, mid-term,long-term.
And I even encourage them tocreate a mission statement, you
know, for their new family, evenif it's just the two of them,
like, this is family.
I said, what you start from thebeginning is going to be easier
when you start that in ahealthy way and healthy patterns
.
It'll be easier when youintegrate kids into the mix
because, as you know, that kindof can become a little wonky and
(25:11):
wacky with young kids, but ifyou already have those patterns
established, it's going to be alot easier.
And speaking of healthy, it'sinteresting because I tell my
clients I actually don'tnecessarily want you to live
happily ever after, I want youto live healthily ever after.
I want you to have an alwayshealthy, mostly happy, because
sometimes having a healthyrelationship, you're not happy,
(25:33):
but you for a season or a second, you know.
But it promotes connection andonce you're connected and you
get rid of those unhealthythings that are impeding
connection on all levels, thatis going to lead, you know, to
some type of happiness, if youso choose.
However, you and I both know,and I've told people, that it's
(25:55):
not your job to make yourhusband happy.
Isn't that a shocker?
Yes, it is my job to choose tohave joy in the Lord, and you
know, of course I look at itfrom a Christian perspective,
but even from a non-Christianperspective, it's my job to
choose to be happy, no matterwhat the behavior is.
And if there is some behaviorthat makes it harder for me to
(26:17):
be joyful or happy, it's myresponsibility to speak up about
it.
And then, if there's not achange, then yes, there's some
boundaries and parameters and,yep, we need to go through this
or go there.
But that, I think, is a hugelie of we.
Actually this assessment hasbuilt in rose colored glasses
like a litmus test for that andit has a built in instrument in
(26:39):
there where we do talk about.
You get especially the youngstarry-eyed.
Sometimes I work with reallyyoung couples and they're just
like I.
Nothing, nothing could evermake me not love my husband ever
, and I will always be in loveand.
I'm like, okay, honey, well, andso, yes, I think the Lord does
(27:01):
have amazing fruit and wonderfulthings and fulfilling wonderful
marriage.
That is just hard.
But I think it's prettyunrealistic in our fallen world
to think that we're going to be,you know, we're going to have a
heavenly marriage.
This side of heaven we're.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, right, right, absolutely.
I mean Isaiah and I wasdefinitely that young couple
that was like, oh, this is great, all we need is love.
Right, right, absolutely.
I mean Isaiah and I wasdefinitely that young couple
that was like, oh, this is greatand all we need is love.
Yes, we got love and that's allwe need.
And I feel like literally thenext day after marriage, I was
like, oh, this, okay, we aregoing to take a short break.
(27:44):
Listeners, don't go anywhere.
Stay tuned.
We are going to talk about whatdo you do when maybe you think
you're getting married too soonor maybe these assessment
results don't seem to line up inthe way you thought.
So, stay tuned, we'll be backafter this short break.
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Speaker 1 (29:14):
All right listeners.
So we are back with DenisePayne and we are talking some
good nuggets about marriage,payne, and we are talking some
good nuggets about marriage andI really want to say just about
relationships and communicationand preparing for marriage.
And so as we come back frombreak, denise, I just have to
ask, because I'm sure that ourcouples that come in and they're
(29:36):
like we're getting married nextmonth or next week, right?
Or couples that even come inand they look at their results
and it seems like we're verymuch so incompatible, like what
do you tell couples in thatposition?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, so I'll talk about the incompatibility piece
first.
My husband and I, as part ofthe training, we had to take the
assessment and we were thefailures of the class and we've
been married like at that pointI don't know 15 years or
something like that, but we werevery opposite and I like to
call it complimentary.
So that's how I reframe a lotwhen I work with a couple.
(30:11):
But our kids are reallybalanced.
It was like I'm one extreme,easy.
We have really healthy,balanced kids in the middle.
But we were at that point intime we had 100% compatibility
and spiritual beliefs and sowhen you have a, spiritual
beliefs are really compatible.
That just kind of trickles downto every area.
(30:33):
And but I do again kind of whatI prefaced earlier at the
beginning of the show, that ifyou do have some imbalances
again there's tools, you can dothe work.
And also I will say that youchange through the years and to
say, hey, like maybe right nowthey are coming from where
(30:54):
finances were not a high value.
They're a hot mess with theirfinances, but that can change
and you could take this in acouple of years and your
finances are, you know, 100percent or 80, 90 percent
compatible.
So we talk about that.
And then also, I feel likesometimes God does like to look
at what the Lord's doing and Ifeel like sometimes God does
(31:16):
bring those people that are nottwo peas in a pod, so to speak,
or you know many clones ofthemselves, and he iron,
stripping iron, and he, he knowswhat he's doing.
I mean, there's even my husbandhas his own business.
I help him a bit here and therebut I support him in a way
where I do some bookkeeping andsome other things, but my like
(31:38):
helpmate supporting in that,like that's part of the
incompatibility, personality,but yet it's a huge benefit for
him and it's a benefit for us aswe co-labor together in that.
So to also just reframe itdoesn't mean you're going to
have a horrible marriage.
And, and so there's, there'sways also just to give each
other grace.
In that too, I think it makesyou a lot less self-focused and
(32:02):
selfish when you have to look atthings from that other person's
perspective and to actuallyhave patience and grace to say,
hey, this is a growth area, butI have this area of weakness and
so you can help me grow in thatarea.
And so, yeah, so we talk aboutthat.
And then the getting marriedtoo soon, you know, I honestly I
(32:24):
don't think thatincompatibility is a red flag.
There's two red flags.
One, we do have an instrumentthat's built in with a test that
talks about like a dominatingpersonality, and if there's
flavors of like abuse, evenverbal or emotional, that would
definitely be something.
I would just go in right, getin right there.
(32:46):
And so there's that piece.
And then, when people who arereally for them, and especially
other believers, that whenthere's all kinds of bells and
whistles where people are likeI'm not, you know, comfortable
with this and this does not feellike.
You know, I prayed for you,I've been praying for you
forever.
People you've allowed to speakinto your life.
(33:08):
You're always going to havethat one weird cousin that's
like you guys shouldn't getmarried, it's because that
cousin wants to get married andis jealous.
But you know, in general, likethere, if there are a lot of,
you know, solid people,especially believers and some
family members I know there'ssome unhealthy family members
you need to take that with agrain of salt, but if they're
(33:28):
like, hey, we would reallyprefer you wait.
I can't tell you how many,because I have a lot of friends
now with adult children.
I can't tell you how manyfriends that they've advised
their children Please just waita year.
And they didn't, and they'redivorced now, you know.
And so I think, just listeningand if you aren't there, be
listening to that, you know,just listening to people who
love and want to cheer you andchampion you the most, and if
(33:51):
they're like, no red flags oryou know.
Let's go then that, even ifthey're young, because I've also
seen super young couples thatare great, you know.
So it's not necessarily I don't.
I've worked with coupleshonestly in the fifties and
sixties that are more immaturethan these 1920 year olds, and a
lot of it's Jesus right and we,our spirit doesn't age, and so
(34:13):
some of it's where they're justreally locked in with the Lord
and really mature in the Lordand that's what God's doing.
Go for it.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, you know, there's a super key part that I
can't pass up.
Is Jesus in the mix?
Right, like when I think aboutall the times and all the crisis
and all the things that even myhusband and I went through, the
thing that always kept usgrounded, and even we would not
be together today if it was notfor our spiritual beliefs both
(34:44):
being compatible.
Because, at the end of the day,it is like, hey, we may not
like, I may not agree with maybe, what you're saying, but I do
believe that the Bible is thetruth and I believe that that's
our guideline.
Do believe that the Bible isthe truth and I believe that
that's our guideline.
And so, as much as I may godown kicking and screaming, I am
(35:09):
going to follow this becausethis is the principle and the
Lord is my savior.
And so I think and I can seewhy, you know spiritual beliefs
would be a huge asset in thiscompatibility component.
Right, because if everythingelse isn't compatible, if that's
there, I believe that, first ofall, you're open to receiving
(35:29):
for change.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, and I think, even when weconsider empathy, right, like
when we have things that come up, knowing what your spouse maybe
is strong in and knowing whattheir weakness is in and you,
being able to have opencommunication, open
conversations, then allowsempathy, right?
(35:51):
I mean I can go back to, likelooking at Isaiah and I.
I was not the strongest inholding to the budget because I
did not grow up having to dosuch Right, and he was very
strong in it.
So, after you know, after timesof arguing a few years into the
beginning of our marriage andthen finally doing the work and
understanding like, where isthis coming from?
(36:12):
What trauma is there behindthis?
What were you taught that moneywas used for, like you know,
and there became anunderstanding.
It was like, oh well, youunderstood that saying yes or
money was leading to love, andso there was a certain empathy
that came along with that.
I could be empathetic tounderstanding.
You're not just trying to tellme no to getting my nails done,
(36:33):
like you.
Really, this is your way ofshowing love because you want to
protect us from going throughsome of the things that you
experience.
Going through some of thethings that you experience.
So then there's a level ofempathy that we can have healthy
conversation, not out of likefighting, and I got to prove
that I'm right and my way is theway, but more of out of a
conversation of grace.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
So good yeah, love that.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yes, okay, and so you know, as we get ready to close
out, time always goes so fast.
But as we get ready to closeout, one of the things that I do
want to talk about is theaspect of when you have a
marriage.
When you're in a marriage andit's been long term, right, like
(37:14):
we're 20 years in, right, howdo you keep that marriage from
being stale?
Right, that newness and that la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la
la.
I just so love him?
Maybe it's not sitting there,maybe you've got accustomed to
like this is our routine,because I think sometimes
routines can be damaging to us.
But how do you keep thatmarriage lively?
(37:35):
Like, how do you get out ofthat stillness?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, so a couple things, I think you know.
I think back to when my husbandand I were empty nesters and he
loves to mountain bike andalways has, and I grew up
dancing tap dance, but, like youknow that, and I'm not, you
know, not a big mountain biker,don't really enjoy that, but we,
I ended up getting an e bikeand so that was a thing where I
(38:03):
chose to join in in the way thatI felt comfortable.
So I don't mountain bike, butit's a road bike and it's an
e-bike and so we, we starteddoing bike rides together and so
that was a huge different thingthat we added into our marriage
.
So we brainstormed new dayideas, like through the years
we've done ballroom dancing oryou know, just different things
(38:26):
that, uh, to keep things fresh.
So to brainstorm day ideas,because also in our fifties our
idea of fun is different than itwas in our we were married in
our early twenties, you know, um, and then also to to not be
afraid, to also keep evolvingyour culture in your home, and
so to sit down and go do we havea new mission statement?
(38:48):
You know, through the seasonswith introducing kids or kids or
in teens, you know to not beafraid to sit down.
Like you said, we actually goalset as well.
We fast that day and we goal set, um, try to do on the 1st
January, 1st, but, um, but we'lldo goals for business, goals
for our marriage, goals for ourkids.
(39:08):
How can we go, even when we haveadult children, how can we help
our kids achieve their goals?
And they'll do their goals andtell us, you know, and then we
kind of go together how can wesupport them?
I mean, we have financial goals, we have, and and so I think
too, like one of our goals mightbe all right, what are we going
to do differently in ourmarriage this year?
What are we going to, you know?
And, of course, like, go tothat conference, get, get some
(39:28):
non-crisis marriage counseling,read those books.
But I think just don't ever beafraid to keep evolving and
changing.
And because we, we are asindividuals, why would we not
think that our marriage, yes, dothat with us.
And I think people just getstuck back, like you said, that
routine can be an enemy, like wejust get stuck back into
(39:50):
Tuesday night, date nights, youknow and um and to also get
creative.
We had a season where financeswere really tight because we've
been entrepreneurs and you knowhow that goes.
Yes, oh yes, it is the wave, itis the feast or famine, and so
we had a famine season where weactually weren't dating.
We went a whole year withreally not going on dates
because of finances.
(40:10):
And then we got creative.
We said we're going to buy achimney, we're going to have an
outdoor, you know fireplacething, we're going to just have
a glass of wine those on thoseare very nice glass of wine by
the chimney and that was sogreat for our marriage.
And we, we let, like ourfinances, we let the whatever
the busyness, we let that allyou have to protect.
(40:32):
It's like a garden, you know,they say don't let those little
foxes get into the garden.
And finances were little socksfor us.
You have to tend it and so,yeah, just to really look at it
its own entity.
You have yourself and yourspouse and your marriage, and
sometimes you actually dochoices that are better for this
that aren't even necessarilybetter for individually, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yes, I love that.
So when we got married, myhusband was coming out of
playing football and baseballand I initially had played
basketball but was not reallyinto like going to the gym,
weightlifting, right.
And so he always was like, oh,I'd love for you to go to the
gym with me, and I'd be likethis is not my thing, right?
(41:09):
Well, recently, probably thanksto a little perimenopause and
all these great things happeningin the body, I have found an
amazing joy for going andweightlifting Like I really
enjoy it.
But talk about change, right.
So 20 years ago you could notget me to go with him to the gym
.
I was like adamant, like thisis not the thing for me to do.
(41:32):
And now I'm like waking up at6am like you want to go with me.
He's like no, I don't, you'redriving that train, I love it,
yes.
So change like where you haveto be willing to like take the
change.
One of the things that I'vebeen telling myself so
consistently, especially in theseason, is don't put on a winter
(41:53):
coat when it's summer.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You know, recognize the season you're in and and
bring the tools for that season.
And it's okay that the seasonchanges.
God created seasons, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yes, and don't be afraid that season, and it's
okay that the season changes.
God created seasons, that'sright.
Yes, and don't be afraid ifthere's a winter in your
marriage, because it literallycould just be for a week.
Or it could be on for a goodpiece.
Of you know, and that's thething is I share with my clients
, Like it's not.
Like okay, year one was amazingand then it went downhill.
It's like year 11 was fantastic,Year 16 was great, Year 27 was
cool, Year two was sucked youknow, it's just like I mean, but
(42:26):
you got to just press throughand say you know, just to
there's so it's so much richeras you fall in love with your
husband all over again when heholds your baby.
That just came out of your wombyou know, I mean it's just you
know.
I mean, when you go throughthese experiences together and
you bond and you see agingparents and all these things,
you're just.
Every season brings a challengebut also brings opportunity to
(42:47):
connect and again just transformyour marriage along with it.
But I love what you saidEmbrace the season that is in
and also know changes comearound the corner.
But it's kind of exciting too.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yes, yes, absolutely Well, as always, I have enjoyed
our time together.
Oh, I can see you'll be back onagain, I hope.
Like I'm just speaking it, butI hope.
I received that, oh goodness,okay.
So, as always, please tell ourlisteners how can they connect
(43:19):
with you, to connect with theseresources.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So I have a website.
It's called ChristianPremarital Counselor and so you
can go on that, and thenInstagram, facebook is all
Christian Premarital Counselor,so just kind of type that in.
But Denise Payne and my faceshould pop up and I'm sure in
the show notes you'll probablyhave those resources as well.
But yeah, I have people thathave just found me through my
(43:45):
website and I've worked withpeople all over the nation just
by pop, you know, googlingChristian premarital cancer
popping up and and we've hadsome great connection, even if
you know we're we're indifferent States and, I hope,
different countries too.
That's one of my goals.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So, yes, oh, I love it.
I love it.
Well, if you're a listener andyou're international, denise has
you reach out to her.
Oh, all right.
Graceful community.
As always, we are so gratefulthat you would take the time and
tune in and listen in and, moreimportantly, invest in yourself
through taking time with thispodcast.
(44:21):
If you do not have a community,you know we believe community
is uber important around here.
So, if you do not have acommunity and you're seeking
community, we welcome you tojoin our online community and we
want to connect you withresources near you so that you
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As always, stay tuned for thenext one.
(44:44):
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Take care.
Thank you for tuning in totoday's episode of Graceville
Community Podcast.
We would like to invite you tovisit gracevillecommunitycom.
(45:09):
Graceville Community is allabout doing church the way
Church of Acts did, using fivemain principles that we see in
the Book of Acts.
Sharing resources, as believerspooled their possessions and
resources to support those inneed, as we see in Acts 2.44.
(45:30):
Through hospitality the earlyChristians practiced hospitality
by opening their homes toothers, as we see in Acts 2.46.
By financial aid the church inAntioch sent financial aid to
believers in Judea during a timeof famine, as described in Acts
(45:52):
11 and 29.
Prayer and encouragement theysupported each other through
prayer and encouragement, as wesee in Acts 4 and 24.
And finally, spiritual guidancethe apostles and elders
provided spiritual guidance andteaching to help strengthen and
build the community, as we seein Acts 15 30.
(46:16):
I would like to encourage you.
If any of those areas are areasin which you are in need or can
contribute, please reach out toGraceville Community.
We are working together acrossthe world with ministries and
individuals alike to help bringback the Church of Acts.
My name is Nicole Cater, your host, founder and
servant leader of GracevilleCommunity.
I want to thank you for tuningin to Graceville Community
Podcast.
This is a safe space, a placein which we just share stories
of how God has touchedindividuals' lives all across
the world and how they are nowimpacting the kingdom of God.
(00:21):
Thank you for tuning in.
Blessings to you, hello,welcome, welcome, welcome.
I am uber excited you guys hearthat Uber excited for today's
show.
We have a returning guest, onewho I am so grateful for, denise
(00:43):
Payne.
And so, before we get started,I do want to tell you, listeners
, if you have not listened toour previous recording with
Denise, you need to go back andlisten to it.
I mean, it was phenomenal.
Just talking about connectingwith areas that you're
passionate about, connectingwith your God-given purpose,
(01:05):
right, and how to find that.
I mean, from that episode Iwill say I signed up my three
teens to work with Denise and itwas so impactful I felt like a
weight was lifted off of me.
Yes, there's somebody else inmy village to help.
So thank you, denise.
We're so happy to have you onGraceville community.
(01:26):
Help me.
Welcome, denise once again.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Hi Nicole, it's so great to be back.
I'm happy to be here yet againchatting with you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yes, well, I'm so glad to have you back.
I mean, we were havingconversation before we press
record, which tends to happensometimes.
I'm like we should have pressedrecord.
I'm excited to talk about ourtopic today though Premarital
right, like once you made thatdecision to say yes, this is the
(02:01):
one.
You've said yes, um, I know howimportant premarital
consideration, premaritalcounseling, premarital um I
would really say like evenmentorship is before going into
marriage.
Um, in our own story, we had avery short process of premarital
(02:23):
, and I do believe that some ofthat led to not being prepared
for the things that hit us inmarriage the good and the bad,
not really having anunderstanding of being prepared
and how to handle them.
And so I know that you workwith couples in premarital
aspects, so please tell us alittle bit about what you do,
and then let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, so I have been utilizing Preparing and Enrich.
It's a curriculum out ofColorado Springs.
It's been around for about 40years.
It's helped 4 million couples.
To date.
I have not helped 4 millioncouples, but it has.
My husband and I actually wewere trained as lay ministers
years ago with it and we workedman about once honestly, once or
(03:07):
twice a year with couples justfor free and kind of meeting
with them, helping them repair.
And then when I became an emptynester and I launched into the
career counseling, I actuallybecame a certified facilitator
and I was able to do compare andenrich on my own.
I do now charge, but I do workwith couples all over the nation
and honestly can dointernationally.
(03:27):
I almost work with a couple inAustria, so like, if you speak
English I can work with you.
But basically what it is is mycouples take an assessment on
compatibility and so thisassessment will give me results
on compatibility in areas suchas finances, conflict resolution
, communication, spiritualbeliefs, family of origin, a
(03:47):
whole host of issues, usuallyabout 12 to 14 areas, even
personality differences.
And then we kind of fine toothcomb those areas in session.
But they have in sessionhomework and out of session
homework and I was able toactually work it out.
The Lord and I we kind ofco-labored together, but they do
these in six 90-minute sessions.
(04:09):
So the curriculum essentiallyis usually about 12 weeks, but I
just smushed it all togetherand the Lord and I worked it out
to where I just meet withcouples six times for 90 minutes
, and sometimes I'm working witha couple right now we're just
going to meet once a monthbecause they're kind of
pre-engaged, and so some, likeI'm working with a couple right
now we're just gonna meet once amonth because they're kind of
pre engaged, and so some couplesI'll work with, they want to
work with me just to see if theyeven want to go down the
(04:33):
engagement route, and so I alsodo work with married couples,
but I describe that as noncrisis.
Married meaning.
Crisis to me is current activeaffair, major addiction or
mental health issues, and so,though, I will pass those on,
because technically, even thoughI'm a master's in counseling, I
(04:53):
am not a licensed marriage andfamily therapist.
So I will pass that along to tothe my colleagues under Grand
Junction Counseling, or I'llpass that along to people over
the nation, but anyway, so yeah,so honestly, the non-crisis
marriage is interesting becausesome, a lot of people have not
had premarital and they willhave this great wedding and this
(05:14):
great honeymoon, and thenthey're like, oh my gosh, like
all these issues will pop up andthey've not looked at them,
they've not dealt with them andit kind of freaks them out.
And I, actually, one of thethings I say to my clients is I
I am not freaked out by yourareas of incompatibility.
I'm not freaked out by yourfamily origin.
(05:35):
You just need to know that aGod is calling you guys to like
go down this path, but you needto be willing to put in the work
and show up, and that's the thebig thing it's.
You know I've worked withcouples that they're on their
third or fourth marriages.
I work with couples that theyhave a whole host of both sides
(05:56):
massive issues growing up andtrauma and drama.
And you know some of them arelike, should we even get married
?
Yes, you should get married,but you just need to know you're
probably going to have to worka little harder because you
didn't have great role models.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yes, I love that.
I mean you just said somethingsuper key that I experienced.
Isaiah and I both come fromsome traumatic backgrounds, but
in different ways, right, and soone of the ways we see it play
out often in our marriage and Ionly wish that we had this
wonderful source like youbeforehand we learned during the
(06:29):
marriage and, yes, putting in alot of work, right, a lot of
work, a lot of development.
But Isaiah came from an aspectthat was very traumatic.
I mean we talk about him movingover 40 times before he was of
age 18, not because of military,over 40 times before he was of
age 18, not because of military,but because of just traumatic
circumstances.
You know, I come from a familythat in my mindset I remember
(06:52):
early in our marriage I'm like,no, you're the problem.
Like you come from trauma, Idon't have trauma.
And then I dive into counseling.
I'm like, oh, I have a lot oftrauma, right, and so when we
have that like come together, wewould have issues of trauma, I
mean just even finances, like hewanted to make sure that he
(07:12):
provided and avoided having togo back into a circumstance of
poverty or lack or evictions orthings of that sort that he
would like be so stringent of,like every dollar has to be
saved.
And I come from an aspect ofbecause of the trauma and not
really having anybody tell me no, and me being used to being
(07:32):
bought in the sense of likethey're trying to buy my love,
right, and so I'm like, well,you're telling me, no, that's
not love.
Like you know, you don't loveme, yeah, you don't love me, um,
and so I mean we had somebattles, having to understand
how our backgrounds, how ourupbringings, influence what do
(07:54):
we call it Like attachmenttheory, right, like our love
styles and how-.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Bonding ability to bond.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, yes, absolutely, and so okay, so you work with
couples all over the nation.
I love that.
So if a couple was, you know,considering, and I do, like that
, you said you even work withcouples that are considering
before engagement, right.
Like should we step into thispart?
If a couple is like in theconsideration process, what is
(08:20):
the steps for working with youLike?
Is there any couples thatyou're like?
Oh I just, we won't worktogether.
Or what does the process looklike when they're questioning?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, so I will do.
I offer an introductory phonecall if they want to, but I'll
do an introductory email.
They will sign my intake formsand then, basically, again,
they'll take that, they'll signthose digitally, they'll take
that assessment.
We honestly do dive intocontent the very first session.
So I'm really big on gettingbang for your buck and I charge
(08:53):
the same price as I charge forthe career counseling $75 for 90
minutes and I also pay for theassessment.
So I'm at half price becauseI've chosen not to get licensed,
but I do dive in.
Now I will say I've had a coupleof times one particular couple
I worked with.
It was going to be his secondmarriage.
Honestly, he had struggled withcodependency issues a lot in
(09:16):
his first marriage and youtalked about that and I
recommended some resources.
I'm trying to kind of breakfree from that.
He read the first resource andhe was like, oh my gosh, I'm not
ready to get married yet, youknow.
So, even just that, and so I'llhave them put.
Sometimes I'll't want to take apause.
Sometimes they broken up in thenot because of me, you know,
but just like this stuff getsdialed up.
(09:38):
And there was a particularperson with an addiction, a past
addiction that kind of rearedits ugly head and yeah, so you
know, there is a time for surethey can just pay per session.
There's no commitment andthere's always like you know
what we're going to put this onpause or we're going to wait.
Sometimes couples have gottenmarried earlier than they
(09:59):
thought they would, so they'vegot married during while I'm
working with them.
You know, which is fine.
We just meet after the wedding,it's you know.
I mean, this is these arelifelong concepts.
This is not just, you know, Idon't work with them lifelong,
but I do provide them resourceand tools and how for them to
continue to work on theirmarriage.
This is not just a you take ablue pill, you're ready for
(10:19):
marriage.
You know, this is more justexposing some areas that might
need growth, celebrating areasthat their strengths, and then
providing them with tools, andthen it's up to them to pick up
those tools, you know, and usethem.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So yes, ok.
So you said lifelong and I likethat.
Like we can't just take theblue pill and it magically is
fixed Right.
And you know, even I can speakto, as in our marriage, right
After I mean just celebrating 20years of marriage we still have
consistent like check-in, likeyou know, whether it's with
(10:52):
mentors, whether it's withcounselors, of just check in
right, check the temperatureright, see how things are going,
have someone there to help uswalk through challenging
circumstances, because we knowlife does come with its own
challenges, like we have trialsand tribulations, and so, even
in that, I like how youacknowledge that it's a lifelong
thing and that you give themtools to do this for lifelong,
(11:15):
which I mean the goal ofmarriage right is that we do it
and it is until death do us part.
So you know, when you seecouples struggling, if there was
one area you would say you seethem struggling the most, like
what would that be?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
area.
You would say you see themstruggling the most.
Like what would that be?
So it?
would definitely becommunication and I've been
married we will celebrate 31years next week but we still
struggle with communication.
You can talk to my husband wehad a conversation, this, like
yesterday, you know.
So that is the number one andit's interesting because there's
(11:53):
some statistics that financesand sexual dissatisfaction are
the two things that lead todivorce.
But I do, and I don't know ifthose statistics are within the
church or out of the church.
But what I in my work currently, communication is the biggest,
biggest issue.
Communication is the biggest,biggest issue.
So we do.
Actually, you know, I do havesome tools that I provide for
(12:16):
them.
Regarding increasingcommunication, first of all, I
do love that you check in withyour husband I actually I
recommend this and my husbandand I used to do this on Sunday
nights when our kids were little.
Honestly, we have one adult kidat home right now, and so it's
a little easier to just connectand be together.
But, but one of the things weused to do on Sunday nights is
(12:36):
we would do what I call marriagecheck-in and we would say hey,
how do you think we're doing?
What can I improve on?
And the scale from zero to 10,like 10 being, bliss, you know,
zero being, I want out.
Where would you rate it thisweek?
I mean, it doesn't have to be,you know and then we would pray
together.
So we would just say how can I,how can I pray for you in this
(12:57):
area?
And we would pray together.
But another thing that Irecommend obviously is and I
know this is very communicationone-on-one, but it does work but
using I statements when you'refrustrated, um, instead of you,
blah, blah, blah.
But like I felt sad when youdidn't, uh, take out the trash
after I asked you to three times.
(13:18):
You know um and let's get realUm and so, but also what um?
And I know again, this iscommunication one-on-one, but it
, it, it works with my couples.
But then the response to theperson that you're sort of
confronting would say what Ihear you saying is you're
frustrated or sad because Ididn't take out the trash and
(13:39):
there's so much that can becleared up just by saying can
you repeat that?
Or this is what I heard andobviously the tone is huge and
sometimes it's that they didn'tmean to even, you know, come
across as a frustrated tone.
They just like stubbed theirtoe while they were talking to
you.
And so that's key.
And then also, I feel likethere are different ways to
(14:04):
communicate how much you lovethem in five love languages and
I'm sure you're familiar withthose and for your listeners I
will just it's from Gary Chapmanand he created these a long
time ago, but for simplisticreasons I will just kind of do
just sort of like a very forlack of better word, like a
(14:27):
crude, just you know breakdownof the five language languages
that you guys can get that bookand read it more thoroughly, but
at quality time.
Words of affirmation, acts ofservice, gifts and physical
touch.
And what I find with a lot ofmy couples is they will show
love, how they want to be loved,and so they'll just shower, you
(14:47):
know, shower with gifts Ifthat's the loving language and
then the the you know partner issaying no, I actually don't
feel led by receiving gifts, Iwant words of affirmation or
things like that.
So we do talk about making surethat first of all we do discuss
like how do you feel most loved?
And obviously it changes inseasons.
So I used to be a words ofaffirmation, affirmation girl,
(15:10):
and then I had young children.
Acts of service was right there.
You can just change a diaper,you can do the dishes, so I can
hop in the shower, and so thatchanged and I let my husband
know.
Like you don't even need totell me I'm beautiful, just do
the dishes, please.
Or vacuum, you know.
And so that changes and waxesand wanes, you know, with
(15:31):
different seasons in life.
So we do talk aboutcommunicating in that way as
well, even through physicaltouch and and things like that,
and I know that sounds weird asa way to communicate, but it's
actually how you love them andso, yeah, so those are some of
the you know just a little bitof a recap of some of the
communication things that wediscuss and talk about in
(15:52):
session.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Absolutely.
Well, let me say, like I know,I mean without a doubt, I knew
before we started that you knowyour stuff, but as you were
stating your communication tools, I'm like, yep, we learned to
do that.
Yep, we learned that.
Like these are all the steps forour listeners.
These are all the steps that weput in place and we were coming
(16:15):
out of marriage with crisis andthese were some of the starting
tools to really impacting ourmarriage.
I mean, we still do it now.
My favorite way ofcommunicating is when you did
this, I felt this, right, youknow, in the aspect of love
languages, um, you know, I dowant to let our listeners know,
(16:37):
even if you're walking into amarriage and maybe you have
children, maybe you're comingtogether as a blended family, or
maybe you're listening andyou're like, oh, this is great
communication tools, right, andI'm not premarital, but hey, we
all need this Cause.
Like you said, denise, you're 31years in, I'm 20 years in, I'm
like we still use these tools,right.
But as a mom, I will say lovelanguages changed the way my
(16:59):
kids receive love from me.
I would say maybe about five,six years ago, I had a point
where I learned and realized theway I was loving my husband was
not how he needed to receivelove or how he was receiving
love for me.
And so when I discovered thatwith him, I thought I wonder if
my kids understand that this isme loving them.
(17:20):
And so we had this conversation.
We taught them the five lovelanguages.
There's a quick YouTube videoy'all where there it goes over
the five love languages and itwas like a seven minute video to
help, for at that point theywere like a nine and ten I think
, and so you know we taught themthe love languages.
And then I had them tell melike which one do you receive
(17:42):
love from?
And so one kid's access service.
I'm like, oh, that's why hecares when I actually do his
laundry for him, right?
or like you know, the other kidwas very clear with gifts and
I'm like that makes sense,because you will ask for the
$200 item Like it's nothing.
You know you are good, yes, youknow.
And another one, she was likeI'll take a quality time.
(18:02):
I'm like that makes sense,cause all you want to do is that
quality time and physical touch.
You want to sit and cuddle andwatch a movie with me and so
forth, and so it really gave meinsight on how I can love them
best.
And so, even as a parent, Ithink this goes into even your
relationship with friends.
I think even your relationshipin the workplace.
(18:24):
Gary Chapman has a book that Idid not know about.
I have to look up the titlebecause I only found out about
it being.
On this last cruise we took, wewalked by a gentleman and he
had a book that said like love,languages in the workplace.
Oh, I didn't know that, yes, andI was like what, where have you
(18:45):
been all my life?
Yes, so, as this lovelygentleman is like sitting by the
side of the ocean, reallywanting to just enjoy his time
with his book, I'm like, sir,how is that?
Hi, but it's so impactful.
And so those tools you gave, Iknow, you know, like you said,
they're like communication,one-on-one.
But back to basics, right.
(19:06):
Sometimes it's going back tothe basics to help solve the
things that are sitting in frontof us.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, and you know, interesting with the words of
affirmation, because we have ahomework assignment that they're
supposed to give what they calldaily compliments, but with the
words of affirmation.
I encourage my clients to do adifferent type of compliment,
because it's easy to say, well,you look, pretty well, you look
pretty well, you look, and thattakes no creativity on their
(19:33):
part.
And just to even think through,like how can I and I actually
say I would love for you tocompliment them in an area
you've never complimented thembefore, it gets them looking at
(19:53):
the positive actions thatthey're doing versus the
criticism and the criticalaspect of what they're doing
wrong, cause we're all human andwe're all going to do stuff
wrong but to really have lookingthrough the lens of you know
how can I cheerleading champion,you know my fiance or spouse
and to go in daily with thatmindset?
And then I'll follow up and I'llsay how did that go and did you
use I statements and did youknow?
(20:14):
And honestly, if you get intothe routine where these kind of
become rote, then you fall backon those when you're in those
heated discussions Because it'salmost like a muscle memory.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm notgoing to interrupt, I'm going to
let them do their I statementsand I'm going to reflect back.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
So, absolutely One of the things I think about is
just recently.
We do like a vision meeting atthe beginning of every year,
typically like my husband and Iwill individually meet and then
we'll come together.
We like to try and get two daysaway and just really go for
like okay, lord, what do youhave for us this year?
We kind of go through the list,like of priorities, like okay,
lord, what do you have for usthis year?
We kind of go through the listof priorities like okay, what
are we committing to with ourrelationship with God, to each
(20:59):
other, a spouse, then to thekids, and then to church and
extended family and so forth.
And so we were doing that and,like you said, the way you
receive love will changedepending on the seasons right.
You're in.
And so in previous seasons wehad to be very intentional to
have that weekly date night, tohave that weekly time together.
(21:20):
And now we're in a season where, yes, there's three teams and
so they all are kind of doingtheir own thing, and we find
ourselves sitting sometimes likehey, it's you and I like what
do you want to do?
Right?
And so as he was laying out,like okay, this is our date
night budget, I'm like well,hold on, I don't think we need
weekly date nights.
(21:41):
Like can we just identify oncea quarter to just go away and
have intentional time away?
But we're, we're seeing eachother, we're having these
conversations and those weeklydate night seasons are not
necessarily what's needed inthis moment.
And so I remember his reaction.
He was like what I mean?
Yes?
(22:02):
Like oh, my goodness, becausewe had years of me saying like I
need quality time, I want thistime once a week, you know, so
forth.
So he was just like you gottabe kidding me.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Like yes, we could do that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yes, but I think that just speaks to why it's so
important to keep thesecommunication skills to.
You know, do those check-insand go through like, what does
your spouse need at this time,at this season in their life?
Right, you know, and keeping inthat in mind, many of us did
(22:37):
not get to see that in themarriages that went before us,
right?
So many of us, especially if welook at the differences in time
.
We look at the difference inhow we see therapy now, how we
see, like, talking about yourweaknesses and getting resources
for those that was not there IfI even consider 20 years ago,
(22:59):
40 years ago, let alone 60 yearsago.
And so a lot of us did not haverole models that we can
necessarily say was a true,healthy marriage of family
origin.
And so when you have couplesthat come to you and they're
coming from a place of that thatthey didn't get to see that
healthy role model, how do yourecommend them thriving in their
(23:22):
marriage?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Sure, it's a great question and it comes up quite a
bit, and so basically, first ofall, I remind them that they
have a chance to create a wholenew family culture and so they
do not need to bring anything in.
And we actually have a homeworkin session thing where they say
what do you want to bring, ifanything?
(23:43):
One thing like what's one,because we don't have time to go
into it.
You know all the things, butwhat's one tradition or one
thing you want to bring in?
If anything, what do you notwant to bring in?
And we I've had clients thatare like I want to bring nothing
from my family fortune, which Itotally respect.
But sometimes it's nice, evenif you've had just some, a lot
of trauma, but they're like wow,I really liked that we did
cinnamon rolls on Christmasmorning.
(24:04):
You know no-transcript Like.
You can make those changes, youget those resources, get the
therapy, get the books, get that.
you know that you actually canbreak generational curses, you
(24:26):
can break family lines, you canbreak patterns, but you have to
show up and do the work, andthat you know.
I kind of keep reiterating that, but I love to get them
dreaming about.
Oh, I don't have to fall backinto that family culture and we
do goal setting at the lastsession.
But what are, you know, whatare some goals that you have,
(24:48):
that short-term, mid-term,long-term.
And I even encourage them tocreate a mission statement, you
know, for their new family, evenif it's just the two of them,
like, this is family.
I said, what you start from thebeginning is going to be easier
when you start that in ahealthy way and healthy patterns
.
It'll be easier when youintegrate kids into the mix
because, as you know, that kindof can become a little wonky and
(25:11):
wacky with young kids, but ifyou already have those patterns
established, it's going to be alot easier.
And speaking of healthy, it'sinteresting because I tell my
clients I actually don'tnecessarily want you to live
happily ever after, I want youto live healthily ever after.
I want you to have an alwayshealthy, mostly happy, because
sometimes having a healthyrelationship, you're not happy,
(25:33):
but you for a season or a second, you know.
But it promotes connection andonce you're connected and you
get rid of those unhealthythings that are impeding
connection on all levels, thatis going to lead, you know, to
some type of happiness, if youso choose.
However, you and I both know,and I've told people, that it's
(25:55):
not your job to make yourhusband happy.
Isn't that a shocker?
Yes, it is my job to choose tohave joy in the Lord, and you
know, of course I look at itfrom a Christian perspective,
but even from a non-Christianperspective, it's my job to
choose to be happy, no matterwhat the behavior is.
And if there is some behaviorthat makes it harder for me to
(26:17):
be joyful or happy, it's myresponsibility to speak up about
it.
And then, if there's not achange, then yes, there's some
boundaries and parameters and,yep, we need to go through this
or go there.
But that, I think, is a hugelie of we.
Actually this assessment hasbuilt in rose colored glasses
like a litmus test for that andit has a built in instrument in
(26:39):
there where we do talk about.
You get especially the youngstarry-eyed.
Sometimes I work with reallyyoung couples and they're just
like I.
Nothing, nothing could evermake me not love my husband ever
, and I will always be in loveand.
I'm like, okay, honey, well, andso, yes, I think the Lord does
(27:01):
have amazing fruit and wonderfulthings and fulfilling wonderful
marriage.
That is just hard.
But I think it's prettyunrealistic in our fallen world
to think that we're going to be,you know, we're going to have a
heavenly marriage.
This side of heaven we're.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, right, right, absolutely.
I mean Isaiah and I wasdefinitely that young couple
that was like, oh, this is great, all we need is love.
Right, right, absolutely.
I mean Isaiah and I wasdefinitely that young couple
that was like, oh, this is greatand all we need is love.
Yes, we got love and that's allwe need.
And I feel like literally thenext day after marriage, I was
like, oh, this, okay, we aregoing to take a short break.
(27:44):
Listeners, don't go anywhere.
Stay tuned.
We are going to talk about whatdo you do when maybe you think
you're getting married too soonor maybe these assessment
results don't seem to line up inthe way you thought.
So, stay tuned, we'll be backafter this short break.
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Speaker 1 (29:14):
All right listeners.
So we are back with DenisePayne and we are talking some
good nuggets about marriage,payne, and we are talking some
good nuggets about marriage andI really want to say just about
relationships and communicationand preparing for marriage.
And so as we come back frombreak, denise, I just have to
ask, because I'm sure that ourcouples that come in and they're
(29:36):
like we're getting married nextmonth or next week, right?
Or couples that even come inand they look at their results
and it seems like we're verymuch so incompatible, like what
do you tell couples in thatposition?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, so I'll talk about the incompatibility piece
first.
My husband and I, as part ofthe training, we had to take the
assessment and we were thefailures of the class and we've
been married like at that pointI don't know 15 years or
something like that, but we werevery opposite and I like to
call it complimentary.
So that's how I reframe a lotwhen I work with a couple.
(30:11):
But our kids are reallybalanced.
It was like I'm one extreme,easy.
We have really healthy,balanced kids in the middle.
But we were at that point intime we had 100% compatibility
and spiritual beliefs and sowhen you have a, spiritual
beliefs are really compatible.
That just kind of trickles downto every area.
(30:33):
And but I do again kind of whatI prefaced earlier at the
beginning of the show, that ifyou do have some imbalances
again there's tools, you can dothe work.
And also I will say that youchange through the years and to
say, hey, like maybe right nowthey are coming from where
(30:54):
finances were not a high value.
They're a hot mess with theirfinances, but that can change
and you could take this in acouple of years and your
finances are, you know, 100percent or 80, 90 percent
compatible.
So we talk about that.
And then also, I feel likesometimes God does like to look
at what the Lord's doing and Ifeel like sometimes God does
(31:16):
bring those people that are nottwo peas in a pod, so to speak,
or you know many clones ofthemselves, and he iron,
stripping iron, and he, he knowswhat he's doing.
I mean, there's even my husbandhas his own business.
I help him a bit here and therebut I support him in a way
where I do some bookkeeping andsome other things, but my like
(31:38):
helpmate supporting in that,like that's part of the
incompatibility, personality,but yet it's a huge benefit for
him and it's a benefit for us aswe co-labor together in that.
So to also just reframe itdoesn't mean you're going to
have a horrible marriage.
And, and so there's, there'sways also just to give each
other grace.
In that too, I think it makesyou a lot less self-focused and
(32:02):
selfish when you have to look atthings from that other person's
perspective and to actuallyhave patience and grace to say,
hey, this is a growth area, butI have this area of weakness and
so you can help me grow in thatarea.
And so, yeah, so we talk aboutthat.
And then the getting marriedtoo soon, you know, I honestly I
(32:24):
don't think thatincompatibility is a red flag.
There's two red flags.
One, we do have an instrumentthat's built in with a test that
talks about like a dominatingpersonality, and if there's
flavors of like abuse, evenverbal or emotional, that would
definitely be something.
I would just go in right, getin right there.
(32:46):
And so there's that piece.
And then, when people who arereally for them, and especially
other believers, that whenthere's all kinds of bells and
whistles where people are likeI'm not, you know, comfortable
with this and this does not feellike.
You know, I prayed for you,I've been praying for you
forever.
People you've allowed to speakinto your life.
(33:08):
You're always going to havethat one weird cousin that's
like you guys shouldn't getmarried, it's because that
cousin wants to get married andis jealous.
But you know, in general, likethere, if there are a lot of,
you know, solid people,especially believers and some
family members I know there'ssome unhealthy family members
you need to take that with agrain of salt, but if they're
(33:28):
like, hey, we would reallyprefer you wait.
I can't tell you how many,because I have a lot of friends
now with adult children.
I can't tell you how manyfriends that they've advised
their children Please just waita year.
And they didn't, and they'redivorced now, you know.
And so I think, just listeningand if you aren't there, be
listening to that, you know,just listening to people who
love and want to cheer you andchampion you the most, and if
(33:51):
they're like, no red flags oryou know.
Let's go then that, even ifthey're young, because I've also
seen super young couples thatare great, you know.
So it's not necessarily I don't.
I've worked with coupleshonestly in the fifties and
sixties that are more immaturethan these 1920 year olds, and a
lot of it's Jesus right and we,our spirit doesn't age, and so
(34:13):
some of it's where they're justreally locked in with the Lord
and really mature in the Lordand that's what God's doing.
Go for it.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, you know, there's a super key part that I
can't pass up.
Is Jesus in the mix?
Right, like when I think aboutall the times and all the crisis
and all the things that even myhusband and I went through, the
thing that always kept usgrounded, and even we would not
be together today if it was notfor our spiritual beliefs both
(34:44):
being compatible.
Because, at the end of the day,it is like, hey, we may not
like, I may not agree with maybe, what you're saying, but I do
believe that the Bible is thetruth and I believe that that's
our guideline.
Do believe that the Bible isthe truth and I believe that
that's our guideline.
And so, as much as I may godown kicking and screaming, I am
(35:09):
going to follow this becausethis is the principle and the
Lord is my savior.
And so I think and I can seewhy, you know spiritual beliefs
would be a huge asset in thiscompatibility component.
Right, because if everythingelse isn't compatible, if that's
there, I believe that, first ofall, you're open to receiving
(35:29):
for change.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, and I think, even when weconsider empathy, right, like
when we have things that come up, knowing what your spouse maybe
is strong in and knowing whattheir weakness is in and you,
being able to have opencommunication, open
conversations, then allowsempathy, right?
(35:51):
I mean I can go back to, likelooking at Isaiah and I.
I was not the strongest inholding to the budget because I
did not grow up having to dosuch Right, and he was very
strong in it.
So, after you know, after timesof arguing a few years into the
beginning of our marriage andthen finally doing the work and
understanding like, where isthis coming from?
(36:12):
What trauma is there behindthis?
What were you taught that moneywas used for, like you know,
and there became anunderstanding.
It was like, oh well, youunderstood that saying yes or
money was leading to love, andso there was a certain empathy
that came along with that.
I could be empathetic tounderstanding.
You're not just trying to tellme no to getting my nails done,
(36:33):
like you.
Really, this is your way ofshowing love because you want to
protect us from going throughsome of the things that you
experience.
Going through some of thethings that you experience.
So then there's a level ofempathy that we can have healthy
conversation, not out of likefighting, and I got to prove
that I'm right and my way is theway, but more of out of a
conversation of grace.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
So good yeah, love that.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yes, okay, and so you know, as we get ready to close
out, time always goes so fast.
But as we get ready to closeout, one of the things that I do
want to talk about is theaspect of when you have a
marriage.
When you're in a marriage andit's been long term, right, like
(37:14):
we're 20 years in, right, howdo you keep that marriage from
being stale?
Right, that newness and that la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la
la.
I just so love him?
Maybe it's not sitting there,maybe you've got accustomed to
like this is our routine,because I think sometimes
routines can be damaging to us.
But how do you keep thatmarriage lively?
(37:35):
Like, how do you get out ofthat stillness?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, so a couple things, I think you know.
I think back to when my husbandand I were empty nesters and he
loves to mountain bike andalways has, and I grew up
dancing tap dance, but, like youknow that, and I'm not, you
know, not a big mountain biker,don't really enjoy that, but we,
I ended up getting an e bikeand so that was a thing where I
(38:03):
chose to join in in the way thatI felt comfortable.
So I don't mountain bike, butit's a road bike and it's an
e-bike and so we, we starteddoing bike rides together and so
that was a huge different thingthat we added into our marriage
.
So we brainstormed new dayideas, like through the years
we've done ballroom dancing oryou know, just different things
(38:26):
that, uh, to keep things fresh.
So to brainstorm day ideas,because also in our fifties our
idea of fun is different than itwas in our we were married in
our early twenties, you know, um, and then also to to not be
afraid, to also keep evolvingyour culture in your home, and
so to sit down and go do we havea new mission statement?
(38:48):
You know, through the seasonswith introducing kids or kids or
in teens, you know to not beafraid to sit down.
Like you said, we actually goalset as well.
We fast that day and we goal set, um, try to do on the 1st
January, 1st, but, um, but we'lldo goals for business, goals
for our marriage, goals for ourkids.
(39:08):
How can we go, even when we haveadult children, how can we help
our kids achieve their goals?
And they'll do their goals andtell us, you know, and then we
kind of go together how can wesupport them?
I mean, we have financial goals, we have, and and so I think
too, like one of our goals mightbe all right, what are we going
to do differently in ourmarriage this year?
What are we going to, you know?
And, of course, like, go tothat conference, get, get some
(39:28):
non-crisis marriage counseling,read those books.
But I think just don't ever beafraid to keep evolving and
changing.
And because we, we are asindividuals, why would we not
think that our marriage, yes, dothat with us.
And I think people just getstuck back, like you said, that
routine can be an enemy, like wejust get stuck back into
(39:50):
Tuesday night, date nights, youknow and um and to also get
creative.
We had a season where financeswere really tight because we've
been entrepreneurs and you knowhow that goes.
Yes, oh yes, it is the wave, itis the feast or famine, and so
we had a famine season where weactually weren't dating.
We went a whole year withreally not going on dates
because of finances.
(40:10):
And then we got creative.
We said we're going to buy achimney, we're going to have an
outdoor, you know fireplacething, we're going to just have
a glass of wine those on thoseare very nice glass of wine by
the chimney and that was sogreat for our marriage.
And we, we let, like ourfinances, we let the whatever
the busyness, we let that allyou have to protect.
(40:32):
It's like a garden, you know,they say don't let those little
foxes get into the garden.
And finances were little socksfor us.
You have to tend it and so,yeah, just to really look at it
its own entity.
You have yourself and yourspouse and your marriage, and
sometimes you actually dochoices that are better for this
that aren't even necessarilybetter for individually, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yes, I love that.
So when we got married, myhusband was coming out of
playing football and baseballand I initially had played
basketball but was not reallyinto like going to the gym,
weightlifting, right.
And so he always was like, oh,I'd love for you to go to the
gym with me, and I'd be likethis is not my thing, right?
(41:09):
Well, recently, probably thanksto a little perimenopause and
all these great things happeningin the body, I have found an
amazing joy for going andweightlifting Like I really
enjoy it.
But talk about change, right.
So 20 years ago you could notget me to go with him to the gym
.
I was like adamant, like thisis not the thing for me to do.
(41:32):
And now I'm like waking up at6am like you want to go with me.
He's like no, I don't, you'redriving that train, I love it,
yes.
So change like where you haveto be willing to like take the
change.
One of the things that I'vebeen telling myself so
consistently, especially in theseason, is don't put on a winter
(41:53):
coat when it's summer.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You know, recognize the season you're in and and
bring the tools for that season.
And it's okay that the seasonchanges.
God created seasons, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yes, and don't be afraid that season, and it's
okay that the season changes.
God created seasons, that'sright.
Yes, and don't be afraid ifthere's a winter in your
marriage, because it literallycould just be for a week.
Or it could be on for a goodpiece.
Of you know, and that's thething is I share with my clients
, Like it's not.
Like okay, year one was amazingand then it went downhill.
It's like year 11 was fantastic,Year 16 was great, Year 27 was
cool, Year two was sucked youknow, it's just like I mean, but
(42:26):
you got to just press throughand say you know, just to
there's so it's so much richeras you fall in love with your
husband all over again when heholds your baby.
That just came out of your wombyou know, I mean it's just you
know.
I mean, when you go throughthese experiences together and
you bond and you see agingparents and all these things,
you're just.
Every season brings a challengebut also brings opportunity to
(42:47):
connect and again just transformyour marriage along with it.
But I love what you saidEmbrace the season that is in
and also know changes comearound the corner.
But it's kind of exciting too.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yes, yes, absolutely Well, as always, I have enjoyed
our time together.
Oh, I can see you'll be back onagain, I hope.
Like I'm just speaking it, butI hope.
I received that, oh goodness,okay.
So, as always, please tell ourlisteners how can they connect
(43:19):
with you, to connect with theseresources.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So I have a website.
It's called ChristianPremarital Counselor and so you
can go on that, and thenInstagram, facebook is all
Christian Premarital Counselor,so just kind of type that in.
But Denise Payne and my faceshould pop up and I'm sure in
the show notes you'll probablyhave those resources as well.
But yeah, I have people thathave just found me through my
(43:45):
website and I've worked withpeople all over the nation just
by pop, you know, googlingChristian premarital cancer
popping up and and we've hadsome great connection, even if
you know we're we're indifferent States and, I hope,
different countries too.
That's one of my goals.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So, yes, oh, I love it.
I love it.
Well, if you're a listener andyou're international, denise has
you reach out to her.
Oh, all right.
Graceful community.
As always, we are so gratefulthat you would take the time and
tune in and listen in and, moreimportantly, invest in yourself
through taking time with thispodcast.
(44:21):
If you do not have a community,you know we believe community
is uber important around here.
So, if you do not have acommunity and you're seeking
community, we welcome you tojoin our online community and we
want to connect you withresources near you so that you
can build a Graceville communityof your own.
As always, stay tuned for thenext one.
(44:44):
Follow us on Instagram,facebook, youtube, all the
spaces to get our newsletters,our updates, all the resources
that we have for you to continuegrowing in your journey and
your walk with our good Lord andSavior.
Take care.
Thank you for tuning in totoday's episode of Graceville
Community Podcast.
We would like to invite you tovisit gracevillecommunitycom.
(45:09):
Graceville Community is allabout doing church the way
Church of Acts did, using fivemain principles that we see in
the Book of Acts.
Sharing resources, as believerspooled their possessions and
resources to support those inneed, as we see in Acts 2.44.
(45:30):
Through hospitality the earlyChristians practiced hospitality
by opening their homes toothers, as we see in Acts 2.46.
By financial aid the church inAntioch sent financial aid to
believers in Judea during a timeof famine, as described in Acts
(45:52):
11 and 29.
Prayer and encouragement theysupported each other through
prayer and encouragement, as wesee in Acts 4 and 24.
And finally, spiritual guidancethe apostles and elders
provided spiritual guidance andteaching to help strengthen and
build the community, as we seein Acts 15 30.
(46:16):
I would like to encourage you.
If any of those areas are areasin which you are in need or can
contribute, please reach out toGraceville Community.
We are working together acrossthe world with ministries and
individuals alike to help bringback the Church of Acts.
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