Unlock the secrets of purposeful living with John, a seasoned software developer turned ministry founder, as we explore the transformative journey behind Brushfires Ministry. Discover how John's personal calling inspired a movement to address the church's challenges in discipleship, using tools like DISC and Myers-Briggs to help individuals uncover their God-given design. Listen as we discuss the creation of a Digital Workshop Program, aimed at integrating these assessments into church communities, and the importance of fulfilling the Great Commission with sincerity and intention.
Our conversation with John takes us to the heart of community and collaboration in both evangelism and discipleship. By drawing parallels to Jesus's nurturing of his apostles, we explore the value of slow, intentional growth in nurturing true discipleship. We dive into the distinction between fleeting happiness and enduring joy, inspired by the Apostle Paul's steadfast spirit, and how trials, as described in James 1, can lead us to spiritual completeness and a life aligned with divine purpose.
Come along as we examine the unique design for service that resides in each of us, celebrating the diversity of God's gifts. Through engaging workshops and impactful resources, like the "How We Love" study and songs that touch the soul, individuals can explore their unique paths. Reflecting on the Church of Acts, as practiced by the Graceville Community, we aim to inspire a revival of these ancient, yet timeless, Christian principles in today's world. Join us in this enriching episode to uncover how you too can contribute to a transformative movement within the global church community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Nicole Cater, your host, founder and
servant leader of GracefieldCommunity.
I want to thank you for tuningin to Gracefield Community
Podcast.
This is a safe space, a placein which we just share stories
of how God has touchedindividuals' lives all across
the world and how they are nowimpacting the kingdom of God.
(00:21):
Thank you for tuning in.
Blessings to you.
Hello Grace Field communitylisteners, I am so excited for
you to tune in today.
I have a guest here that I knowwe're going to have some fun
Grace Field style conversationsstyle conversations, so I'm not
(00:44):
going to withhold time andconversation.
Let's get directly to it, john.
(01:09):
Welcome John.
Thank you, nicole.
I appreciate the opportunity totalk to you and to your
listeners Absolutely Well.
I am excited for us to dive intoday here at Graceville
Community.
Please tell our listeners justa little bit about yourselves
and some background so when westart talking they know that
there's some context inside ofyou.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, to be true to my teaching that we do in our
digital workshop.
My name is JR.
I am a born again son of themost high God.
I think that when a believercan start to introduce
themselves that way as opposedto are they married?
What do they do for work, thatsort of thing that kind of takes
the the relationship that youhave with the father to a
(01:57):
different level.
I have been in the softwaredevelopment industry for over 40
years Now, with my own businessfor nearly 40 years where we
developed wholesale distribution, accounting, manufacturing,
software, and my plan was I wasgoing to do that till my
retirement age and then slowlywind it down and got had a
(02:17):
different plan and in 2016, hekind of put me on a timeout with
the software company saying,all right, yeah, you're not
going to do that anymore.
I got something else for you,and that led me to finding and
founding the Brushfires Ministryin 2017.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yes, awesome, okay.
So we're going to get into somedeep dive conversation here,
but before we do, tell us just alittle bit about what
Brushfires Ministry does here.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
But, before we do, tell us just a little bit about
what Brush Fires Ministry does.
So one of the things that hadbeen really frustrating for me
is seeing the ineffectiveness ofthe church, where we're not
really making an impact, andthat, I think, is because most
of the people that are part ofthe body of Christ are not doing
what they were created to do,and that's been something that's
bugged me now for well over 20years, but I didn't really know
(03:07):
what to do about it.
I'm not a pastor.
I don't have that position inthe church to have that sort of
influence.
And God, in 2016, led me intothis psychometric assessment
training program that Iinitially said no to because it
didn't make any sense,considering my financial
(03:28):
position and everything elsethat was going on in my life,
and what I discovered was we areall uniquely designed and
there's a way for us to discoverthat design through
psychometric assessments.
Psychometric assessments arelike DISC or Myers-Briggs.
Psychometric assessments arelike DISC or Myers-Briggs, the
one that we happened to use.
We have the license to be ableto reproduce these, and they
(03:52):
were all created by born-againbelievers, and so for me, it was
like alright, I got theseassessments.
That allows us to discover.
But the church doesn't embracethis teaching.
And in May of 2017, I wascontemplating my purpose
statement, which is a statementthat we develop at the end of
our program.
The purpose statement read suchas this I must strategically
(04:15):
lead a gifted team to embracethe power of their God-given
design for long-term positiveresults.
So I looked at that and I goall right, well, embrace the
power of the God-given design.
That's the psychometricassessments.
That tells me that that firstpart I must strategically lead,
nicole.
I've been put into theleadership position since I was
(04:37):
18.
It's like I can't avoid beingpromoted into these spots and
eventually my own, being theowner of my own software company
.
So it's just like that's alwayshappened.
And then the last part, whichwas to produce long-term
positive results that's goodfruit.
That's Galatians 5.22.
So I'm looking at that and I'mgoing all right.
(04:59):
Well, you got the assessments.
The church is not embracing thisteaching.
What do you got to do?
And at that point in time, Isaid well, I guess I'm going to
write the curriculum tointroduce this to the church.
That eventually became theDigital Workshop Program and
that's where we're at now.
The interesting thing, nicolebecause a lot of people ask us
(05:20):
about the name of the ministry.
As soon as I made the mentalagreement that I was going to
write the curriculum for theprogram, god gave me the name.
I know it was heard in my mindfirst that I was the first one
to speak it out, but I can'ttake credit for the name because
(05:42):
God just gifted it to me.
As soon as I made thatagreement he said and you're
going to call it Brush FiresMinistry.
It was sort of funny.
It's always been a cool name,their God-given design and
(06:10):
purpose.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I love it.
I love it.
So you said a keyword that'snear and dear to me and I'm just
going to get on this topicdiscipleship.
And I'm just going to get onthis topic, discipleship.
You know, recently I was havinga conversation with someone and
I was stating and this is whatGracefield is about is just we
confront things, as Paul did.
Right, let's just be head on,direct with what we need to
improve as sons and daughters ofGod.
(06:37):
Right, are we doing the greatcommission?
Are we doing it effectively?
Are we bearing fruit andteaching others as well how to
bear that fruit?
And so we talk aboutdiscipleship and especially the
state of discipleship in thechurch.
I want to ask you, like what doyou consider to be the state of
discipleship in the churchtoday?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I actually think it's atrocious.
It's just not there.
There are various aspects of agood discipleship program that
are in place.
There are churches that havegreat biblical scholars that are
teaching real good theology andreally making that message, and
(07:18):
there's some that are reallyhaving a relationship where men
and women are being heldaccountable and are in this sort
of things.
But that's just a small part ofit.
If you look at what Christ didwith his apostles, what he did
was he taught them one-on-one.
The other thing was, becausehe's God, he knew exactly what
(07:41):
Peter's design was.
He knew that he was impetuous,but he was a born leader.
He knew John's heart and hisheart for humanity.
He knew all these things aboutthem.
Why?
Because he created them.
Well, we have a way of beingable to do that too.
So over the last number of years, one of the things that has
(08:01):
frustrated me is that when weget a person to the design
discovery meeting, which is whenwe develop those purpose
statements and every one isunique.
There isn't one that is thesame as the other.
We get them to that point andyou can see the revelation and
the confirmation in the person'seyes.
I mean, oftentimes they'rebawling because they're being
(08:22):
seen for the first time, Thingsthat they were frightened to be
able to speak out because otherpeople shouted them down.
Oh, you're not a leader, You'rejust being excuse the word
bitchy, you know.
I mean, a lot of ladies getthat, A lot of lady leaders get
you're just bossy or you're justthis or that.
And so what happens is, youknow, they get to this place and
(08:47):
they go okay, I am being seen,and then that's the mountaintop
experience, and then they godown and then they go back to
life and the missing ingredientwas discipleship.
So what we are doing now iswe're actually in a process of
developing a discipleshipframework.
This is not a program.
This is not a cookie-cutterthing.
This is going to take realeffort on church leaders to
(09:11):
employ, but it's the way, Ibelieve, that Christ wants it
done.
What we do is we take ourdesign analysis and our purpose
statements and we say, all right, this is what the person is
designed for.
Who do we have as a strongleader in the church?
A discipler, a mentor that wecan partner this person with so
(09:35):
that they can start to help themwalk out the sanctification
process and be able to grow inthat?
So it's discipleship with anintentionality, with a purpose.
Think of it as being recruitedinto the army.
When you're recruited into thearmy, they send you through a
series of batteries of tests andthose tests are intended to
(09:58):
figure out what your aptitudesare in a certain area.
So if you're up there at theshooting range and you're
hitting bullseyes in a certainarea, so if you're up there at
the shooting range and you'rehitting bullseyes, guess who's
going to get promoted to thesniper division?
Because you have that gifting,you have that skill set.
The church can do the samething.
We can find out who ourcounselors are.
Our assessments reveal that.
(10:18):
We can find out who ourteachers are.
Our assessments can reveal thatwe can find out who our leaders
are.
And then we take that and wetrain their leaders how to walk
them out in their design and sothat they can actually become
who it is that God is wantingthem to be.
Now, traditional discipleship,as it's being done in the church
(10:41):
, is still necessary.
I cannot send a new recruit outinto the battlefield to be
chewed up by the enemy if theydon't have biblical foundations.
They need to know certainthings to be true.
They need to know that they aresaved by faith and it's grace
and it's not by works.
(11:01):
They need to know that Christwas 100% man and 100% God.
They need to understand thesetruths so that, when the enemy
attacks them, they can fall backon the truths of the gospel,
their position in Christ, and goyeah, not today, enemy, I am
not going to be tempted intothat sin, I am not going to be
dismayed, I'm not going to bediscouraged, because I know who
(11:23):
created me and I know what hecreated me for.
Sorry, you get me talking aboutthis and it's so close to my
heart, Nicole, I just run withit.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Right, no, I hear you .
I understand, because I fallwithin the same line.
Right, I have been in aspectsof ministries behind the scenes
for over 20 years and inmultiple various ministries, and
especially in what I do now ina Graceville community serving
ministries with leadershipdevelopment.
That's one of the main thingsthat I see, especially in when
(11:58):
you have your small, yourmid-sized churches.
It's this aspect of, oh, we havesomebody here, they just got
saved last week and we needvolunteers, and so we kind of
like it's just thinking, like wethrow them in and it's like, oh
, just spend time here andeventually you'll grow and
develop, which is very true,right, as they're sitting under
the word, they will grow anddevelop, but there are some
(12:22):
innate abilities that the Lordcreated in them that if we take
the time to really get to knowthem, get to know their
strengths, find out actuallywhat are their weaknesses, right
, paul teaches us that we haveour weaknesses there, so that we
still find ourselves having togo back to God because we do
(12:42):
have these weaknesses.
So it's important to understand,like, what are your strengths,
what are your weaknesses, andhow does that come together in
the body?
Because we each carry a part ofthe body.
So I'm right there with you,because I think it is a thing of
our discipleship aspect thatgets thrown off in churches.
Right, and we do it in theworkplace, we do it in corporate
and not the church is corporate.
(13:03):
But I am a firm believer thatthere are some things that do
happen, that corporate does,that the business world has,
does that we can utilize in thechurch to be even greater
effective, for which really isoutreach right.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Well, that is the case.
I mean, there's actually twothings that the church has been
called to do, and it's the lasttwo words that Christ gave to
the church.
First of all is spread thegospel.
Okay, so evangelism is amandate, but the other one is
discipleship.
Make disciples.
Disciples are people that areintentionally doing what they
(13:39):
were created to do.
Use the word weakness and whenwe're referring to sin or lack
of education or training, okay,I'll accept it in that area, but
I don't want it to be thisconcept where, okay, I have to
be more of an evangelist becauseI'm 0% evangelist and that's
not really where my heart is.
(14:01):
No, that's not the case.
God created me to be a leader.
Now will I evangelize atvarious times when called upon?
Absolutely.
But my focus should be inleadership, building other
leaders and helping them tounderstand what they were
created to do.
So I prefer the wordshortcomings, because once we
know what those are, then weknow who in the body of Christ
(14:25):
is missing in our ministry tofill that need that we can't
fill on our own.
We were built for communitycommunity with God, but also
community with one another.
We are stronger and moreeffective when we work together.
I mean the people that havecome alongside our ministry to
help us develop the onlinedigital community workshop
(14:49):
videos, the people that haveworked with me on the various
books that I've released, thepeople that have come alongside
and made resources that they'vespent their life invested in.
Those have all been part of themissing pieces that are
necessary.
So we need to teach one anotherthat we're not lone ranger
Christians, that we are designedto work in community.
(15:10):
That the enemy understands thatwill use our differences
against us.
He'll use the fact that Mary isa high creative and Martha is a
high maximizer and Martha doesnot like Mary messing up her
well-established program andMary's going.
But there's a better way.
We could do it better.
I just want to make it betterand Martha is like all over
(15:35):
because guess what?
You're messing with.
How it's always been, we'vealways done it this way.
Why are we changing it?
Community is what is necessaryfor these things to be
accomplished, and that's whatthe church is supposed to be
about individually raising upthe specific warriors that God
has created, that he has putunder your shepherding, so that
(15:59):
they can become the best versionof what God created them to be,
and then partnering them withthe other members of the body to
accomplish his will.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yes, absolutely, his will, yes, absolutely.
You brought up a great pointearlier and I'm going to go back
to it of when we look at howJesus even gave us the example
of how he had his apostles rightand I think it's, you know,
ideal.
If we just look at that example.
He took 12 and he took 12 andhe spent time with them and he
(16:30):
nurtured them and he pulledtheir strengths Right and he
gave them all roles within asthey traveled and what they did.
And I think one of the thingsthat we see in discipleship with
church is like OK, I want totake this 200.
Well, it's impossible for oneperson and this was Jesus who
created them.
That said, I'm going to workwith these 12.
Who created them?
That said I'm going to workwith these 12.
(16:51):
Now, yes, did he speak to themasses?
Yes, but his disciple, hisapostle, was those 12 and he
developed them and then said yougo out Right.
And so, as we talk about thesolutions for discipleship, like
one thing I think about is slowgrowth Sometimes I think we
(17:11):
want that instant gratification,especially now here, we are in
2025 where everything I meanpressure cooker is quick, Like I
don't even know if people stilluse slow cookers anymore.
Like you know, everything islike given to us now and
discipleship is a process, andso when I when I'm thinking
about that, I also understandthat sometimes the things that
(17:35):
it takes slow, it's time for usto receive, there's a greater
joy behind it, right cooker,when I take that, meat out the
slow cooker.
It is nice and tender and juicyand it falls perfectly apart.
(17:56):
I'm like I did this Versus.
When I pop something in amicrowave, I'm like, yeah, the
manufacturer did a great job onthis right.
And so how do you thinkdiscipleship even connects and
purpose connects to, likeachieving aspects of joy?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
well.
So okay, that's a multi-foldquestion.
The very first thing that I dowant to address, and and say yes
and amen, is that it has to bedone in community and in small
groups.
You know, if jesus could onlyhandle 12 of us knuckle heads at
one time, how are we supposedto handle 200 or 2,000?
(18:33):
So that's number one, and theperson that is leading them
needs to be qualified, needs toactually be walking in their
purpose and actually have thefoundational items in place.
Number two with regards to joy,there's a difference between joy
and happiness.
In 2013, I wrote an articlecalled what is Joy, and I made,
(18:57):
first of all, the distinctionhappiness is based upon your
circumstances.
When my wife puts down a mediumrare ribeye steak in front of
me, oh, I'm happy.
And if there's garlic mashedpotatoes, I'm even happier, you
know, and a nice crisp greensalad with blue cheese dressing,
oh, this has got to be a greatday.
I mean, that's sort of you know, that's sort of where that is,
(19:19):
but guess what, five, six bitesinto that meal and it's like,
all right, well, I'm not ashappy.
I'm still happy, but I'm not ashappy.
Joy is different.
Joy comes from within.
In 2013, I was sitting in achurch and the pastor was
talking about the Apostle Pauland about the specific
(19:43):
calamities that he went throughshipwrecked and being beat and
stoned and imprisoned and soforth and he counted it all joy.
And that's when God stepped inand I couldn't hear the pastor
anymore.
And so I'm sitting there goingall right.
This makes no human sense.
How is it possible that a humanbeing can go through all that
(20:03):
physical trauma and being turnedover by his fellow Jews and all
these other things?
How is that humanly possibleand still consider it all joy?
And that's when I was wrestlingover that and God whispered in
my ear because he was doing whatI created Him to do.
(20:24):
See, we cannot do the works ofGod on our own strengths and
abilities.
It doesn't do my ministry orour ministry any good if people
point to my giftings and say, ohwell, this is all because of
JR's technical abilities or thisor that.
No, that does not bring God theglory.
Did he use my talents?
In many ways, absolutely.
(20:47):
What brings God glory when I'min the middle of a design
discovery meeting and all of asudden he whispers in my ears
something about that person andyou see the shock on their face
where you go.
How did you know that?
I can't pull that off?
That's God working through me,and so forth.
So when you are doing the workof God and it is manifesting the
power of God, the individualgets to be used by God and the
(21:14):
humble one, the one that is notthinking it's all about them, is
going.
I got to partner with thecreator of the universe.
That produces joy, that givesyou a sense of purpose, that
gives you a sense of fulfillmentthat nothing else can and it
doesn't go away in five minutes.
(21:35):
It's like wow, I impacted thatperson's life and because God
used me in that way, they arenow off on this trajectory,
changing their lives andchanging other people's lives.
I got to play a part in that.
That's the difference betweenjoy and happiness.
Joy is sustaining, joy isfulfilling, Joy is empowering.
(21:59):
Joy comes from God.
Think of it this way whenyou're doing what you were
created to do, joy is when Godsmiles at you and says well done
son, well done daughter.
Hey, let's take a quick breakto tell you about Grace Filled
(22:23):
Community.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Grace Filled Community is an organization
that focuses on the primaryprinciples of the Church of Acts
, centered around buildingcommunities that impact the
kingdom of God.
We do this through three coreextensions.
One, graceville Church Network,where we empower churches and
nonprofits for God's success andgrowth.
We offer tailored growthstrategies rooted in biblical
(22:49):
principles that will help youexpand your reach and impact
your communities.
Just like the early church, wefocus not on attendance in
numbers but on discipleship,providing leadership teachings
and trainings to today'sministry leaders.
Our second extension is Projectof the Grace Field, where we
(23:09):
provide biblical counseling,mentorship, workshops and events
that are dedicated toencouraging individuals to live
a life filled with grace andpurpose, rooted in the
understanding that all havefallen short and are a working
project.
Let us help the individuals inyour community grow as they walk
(23:32):
with God and experience thefullness of his love.
Our third extension is thegrace-filled business.
Grace-filled business is hereto help small, faith-based
business owners develop theirbusiness in a way that honors
God, that brings increase andallows them to pour back into
his kingdom, through marketplaceministry and financing his
(23:53):
kingdom.
We do this through our 15 yearsof experience of virtual
administrative work, digitalmarketing, business development
and consulting.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yes, I love that.
I'm actually going to go to thescripture because there's
something I want to point out inthere so that for our listeners
, if you don't know, that'sJames 1.
And it's I'm going to kind ofread through because there's
something very key that we it'sin this, this verse, that all
joy when you fall into diversetemptations.
Verse three knowing this thatthe trying of your faith work is
(24:38):
patience.
Verse four is what my husbandlikes to say is the formula
Right, but let patience have herperfect work, that ye may be
perfect and entire, wantingnothing.
And I think often, you know, wejust hear that like wanting
nothing.
And the first thing that ourminds go to right is the
materialistic aspect right oflike wanting nothing, like I
(24:58):
don't have to want finances, Iwill have to want food and so
forth.
And then verse five continuesto say if you, if any of you,
lack wisdom, let him ask Godthat giveth all men liberally,
meaning that he you ask, he willgive answer right, like he
gives liberally if you ask ofhim.
And so the thing that I haveset with the Lord on about this
(25:20):
is, as you mentioned, like, Iremember the verse where Paul
talks about like it would begood to die, like he initially
acknowledges.
Like I'm sitting in prison,right, it would be okay for me
to die right now, like my humanbody says that might be better
because then I will be in glory,right.
But then he acknowledges butthe better thing is to remain
(25:45):
and do the work of God, like, dowhat he is called to do, do
what he has purpose to do, right.
And so, even when I think about,like our own temptations or our
trials and tribulations that wego through, I believe that
sometimes, as humanity, we walkinto those trials that we caused
.
You know, often we hear peopleput the term like oh, the devil
(26:07):
put me in this circumstance.
Well, no, it's because we'rewalking outside of the purpose
that we were created, in that wefind ourselves in consistent
trials and tribulations and itwill all come align if we walk
in purpose, in his purpose,which is what leads us to count
it all joy.
Because when you're walking inhis purpose, like you said with
(26:28):
Paul, like those circumstancesare not the driving factor for
you and they're not where yourjoy comes from, right, the joy
of the Lord is what gives usstrength, even in those
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's something that's a little bit beyond that.
Yes, we can applaud the outcomeand we can worship and praise
God for what he did, but there'ssomething about that intimate
relationship where God says I'mgoing to use your voice to
change this person's life.
I'm going to use you helpingthem to change this person's
(27:01):
life.
There is an exchange thathappens when you give your free
will over to God and there'ssomething that is deposited in
you.
Now we don't have time for allthe stories that we've gone
through, but there was one Ireferred to as the kryptonite
man, where I was doing a designdiscovery meeting and God spoke
to me in the middle of thedesign and it absolutely shook
(27:25):
me and shook him.
At the end of that day, at theend of those design discovery
meetings with him and his wife,I had to be poured into the
front seat of our car.
I couldn't drive.
I was so wiped out and drenchedfrom God using me in that man's
life.
(27:46):
So there is something that isexchanged and that is different
about joy and happiness.
Joy, actually.
There's something and I haven'tfigured it out yet, but I'm
going to.
One pastor said it's grace andI get that part of it.
But there's something that whenyou freely say yes, father, I
will be used by you and he comesthrough and works in your life
(28:08):
and changes another humanbeing's life through your
obedience.
There is something that isexchanged to that point that is,
the deposit of joy that'splaced in you is priceless.
It's that parable where Christsays the man finds a pearl and
(28:28):
he'll buy the entire fieldbecause he wants that pearl.
Guess what Joy is?
The same way, when you start toexperience it on a regular
basis and then you get the ideaor the concept, do you mean I
can continue to do this, I cancontinue to experience joy, I
can continue to get a reckoningfor all the terrible things that
(28:50):
the enemy has done in my life.
I can stick my finger in theenemy's eye and take back the
ground in my life or otherpeople's lives that he's stolen.
Oh yeah, I'm in, I'm all in.
And you get a taste of that, I'mtelling you, your sin problems
start to go away Because now yousay I don't want sin because
(29:12):
it's going to prevent me fromexperiencing joy.
It's an exchange that you.
It's like saying I'm going tohand you a hundred dollar bill
or a 10 cent coin.
Now a baby might grab the coinbecause it's.
You know, a dime is shiny.
An adult says oh, the hundreddollar bill is worth a lot more.
(29:32):
We're going to grab that.
That's the difference.
Don't settle for a dime ofimmediate gratification in sin
when you can receive hundreds ofdollars from your father of joy
.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yes, I love that analogy.
That is a excellent analogy andthat's exactly what it is right
.
It's the joy that is only givenby him, a joy that can't be
received in any other fashion orform.
Man, I feel like time flies bywhen you're having fun.
Right Flies by.
(30:08):
I looked at the time.
I'm like what happened?
Yeah, that was quick, I lookedat the time.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I'm like what happened?
Yeah, that was quick.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yes, it was.
You know, before we go, I dohave one more question that I
just I really want to get to andreally want to talk about is
the belief that every person isdesigned to serve humanity and
be a part of, like a ministryRight, what?
Are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Well, one of the unique things about doing our
program within a church bodywhere you have, you know, dozens
of people which we've done manylive workshops but we can also
be done online atbrushfire-digitalcom.
One of the unique things aboutdoing that in a body situation
(30:56):
is that you can describe certainattributes of a person's design
and they'll go oh yeah, that'sme.
And the person sitting next tothem will go man, that's not me
at all, when they can start tosee the diversity of God's
giftings amongst his children.
One of my favorite things thatwe do is we show the video no
(31:25):
Longer a Slave, okay, jonathanHesler and his wife Melissa.
In that song, towards the endof it, his wife Melissa just
takes off and that girl ispumping her fists in the air and
she's singing with everythingthat she has and she's just
(31:46):
absolutely in that moment.
You can see that there'snothing left.
Use a football analogy she leftit all in the field in
delivering that song and as soonas that's over, I will take a
person that is 90.
You're a 100% thinker and Iwill ask them tell me what you
thought.
And it'll be something likethis Well, she really executed
(32:10):
that song amazingly.
It was just really powerful andI could just feel the presence
of God and it was just reallyvery moving.
And then I'll go to the personwho's 90 or 100% thinker or 90
or 100% feeler and first of allthey're all bawling, they're
crying, they're absolutelyweeping because of the emotional
(32:32):
impact that they just wentthrough watching Melissa deliver
that song.
And the thinkers over there aregoing wow, we just watched the
same thing.
Why are they all crying?
And I'm not.
That polar opposite of design isintentional by God.
(32:52):
There's nothing wrong with thatthinker.
That thinker is designed to bea surgeon or a police officer or
in the military, somebody whoneeds to follow orders and do
things by precision and notallow their emotions to take
over them.
That feeler quite likely isgoing to be a counselor or a
(33:13):
coach or somebody that is thereto help nurture somebody else,
because they have an open,empathetic, sympathetic heart.
And when people start to seethe diversity of God's design in
a group setting through ourworkshop program, then they go
wow, I am uniquely designed.
It's great with husbands andwives.
(33:37):
All of a sudden the wife goes.
Well, the reason he doesn'treally express his feelings and
emotions is because he controlsthem by his thinker.
He has feelings and emotions.
He just doesn't let them get inthe way of his decisions.
Right, and my part in ourrelationship if she's the feeler
(34:00):
and he's the thinker is to lethim know when his objectivity
has gone too far and he needs tohave some compassion and some
empathy for his children or forhis fellow man.
What gets even more twisted,nicole, and we see this recently
(34:20):
, we've been exploring thisdynamic.
We typically will associate ahigh thinker with a male
personality and a high feelerwith a female personality.
But God doesn't do that.
We have watched many marriagesthat we have helped restore,
because the guy's the feeler andthe woman is the thinker and
(34:41):
she's basically ashamed of herman because he's got emotions
and you know, basicallyemasculating him and he's trying
to put on a strong face becauseyou know he's supposed to be
this kind of guy and he's not.
And we see tremendous divisionbeing created by the enemy
because these preconceived ideasof what is a man has been
(35:04):
placed on certain types ofdesign types.
If a woman is a high thinkerand a guy's a high fielder,
there's nothing wrong with that.
God's just got different workfor them to do.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yes, absolutely, I absolutely love that.
I don't know, have you heard ofhow we love?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I don't think I have no.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Okay, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like we're going here,
but how we love is a um, a studythat we use very often within
graceful community when we dobiblical counseling with couples
, and very similar to what itdescribes is you really look at
the five different love styles,right, and how those love styles
are taken, right From childhood, from what you've seen, did you
(35:50):
become an avoider?
Did you become a people pleaser?
Did you become, and how thosethings carry out into adulthood?
and then understanding how dothey come together with your
relationships, withrelationships with each other as
a couple, your relationshipswith your kids and relationships
amongst community, and so it'svery similar in the aspect we
(36:12):
sit with couples all the timeand we tend to do that with like
a study group in a small groupsettings so actually just last
week we did the first assessmentwith our newest semester of
group and there were couples inthere that are like, like you
said, the husband is more of theempathetic, more of the filler,
but he's been trying tosuppress those things because
(36:34):
that's not what society has saidthe male should express, or the
male should be right.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
He probably got beat up by bigger boys as a kid
because you know he dared to cry.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Oh, you're a sissy, you're this or that.
So he learned real quick If Ishow my emotions, I get hurt.
I don't want to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Absolutely.
And so that leads me into apoint of like, why and I'm going
right back to that discipleshipcomponent of why it's key to
take that time to disciple, likeyou said, in small group
settings, right?
Because when I'm speaking tothe masses, and I'm speaking to
2000 people, I don't get achance to understand what was
(37:15):
your childhood like?
What are the things that shapedyou, what are the things from
your yesterday that you'vebrought into today that has
shaped and formed even how youwalk in your purpose.
Right, there are things, likeyou know, as a maximizer, I can
walk in purpose, but I do needsomebody that sometimes says hey
, nicole, celebrate the moment.
(37:36):
The moment was good.
We could talk about everythingwe need to improve tomorrow
right.
Like, let's celebrate tonight.
You need that and that's theimportance of community and
that's what acts Like.
If I I look at acts and I lookat how community was established
.
Right, there was sharing ofresources, there was financial
aid provided, there was prayerand encouragement, hospitality,
(37:56):
spiritual guidance, like it saidthat the community none went
without, because they understoodthat each person had a part,
each person had a purpose, eachperson had resources that was
meant to supply the community.
So I say all that to say, jr, Iabsolutely love what you guys
are doing at Brush Fires.
(38:17):
I know we could probably talkfor another like five, six hours
, we could go a couple of days,but I should let us at least get
lunch and continue the rest ofour day.
So, that being said, please,just to our listeners, how can
they make sure to stay connectedwith you?
I know we'll put links in theshow notes, but I want them to
(38:37):
hear from you Like what, whatwould be the ideal person also
that should reach out to you, tobe connected with you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, man, there's our, because our ministry deals
with people and we are trying tohelp them get from where
they're at to where God wantsthem to be.
It could be a strugglingmarriage.
It could be somebody who'ssimply going I know there's more
for me in this Christian thing,but I haven't been able to
discover it.
It could be somebody who's beenstuck in an area that they are
(39:07):
completely unhappy about andthey're afraid to even complain
about it because you know you'renot supposed to be grumbling.
But if you know, if you'redesigned for something else and
they've put you in children'sministry for the last 15 years,
there may be something more foryou out there that God really
wants to do.
I would say, first of all, goto our website,
(39:30):
brushfiresjewelcom.
If you simply register as a newuser, we will give you one of
our assessments for free.
Our spiritual gifts assessmentis always made free.
We're going to give you twobooks up front, one that I wrote
and one that was written by oneof our graduates.
I'm actually going and releasingmy fifth book and that will be
made available on that platformcalled Sparks Turn Into
(39:53):
Brushfires.
But then look at our premiumpackages, and in the premium
packages I would stronglyencourage you to sign up for one
of those.
You'll get the workbook, you'llget the eight-session video
series about 130-some hours ofvideo presentation You'll get
the 11 different assessments andat the very end of it, you'll
(40:18):
get a three-hour coachingsession where we will develop
your purpose statement.
For you, if you were doing thisas a husband and a wife, the
wife will be present when thehusband does his, and vice versa
, so they can actually get toknow each other at a much deeper
soul level.
You can do that for as littleas $59 a month that's how low
(40:44):
the bar is to be able to do this.
And we are also looking forcounselors and coaches and
church leaders.
I would prefer teaching churchleaders how to do what we do and
them absolutely being the onesthat are implementing and them
(41:04):
shepherding their flockinternally.
And if they need our supportand training, we'll train the
leaders.
But that's where we're at rightnow.
We're in the multiplicationphase of our ministry and we
want to work with leaders ofChristian organizations and
churches so that they can bringthe best out of their people,
the best out of what God wantsto do in their ministry.
(41:28):
So, brushfires-digitalcom,register as a new user and that
will.
It's free to register and thatwill get you started.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Awesome.
Well, jr, thank you so much foryour time today, thank you for
pouring out, and I do want tosay just thank you for all that
you're doing, you and yourorganization, and I know it
takes a team your team to justsupport and really advance the
kingdom of God.
So thank you for being on today.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Well, thank you, nicole, and I look forward to
working with you and others aswe go forward.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yes, yes, well, graceful listeners, as always,
we hope that you have enjoyedtoday's podcast.
I do want to encourage you tomake sure to check out the show
notes, see how you can beconnected and get connected.
If you are in a space where youdo not have community, or if
you are even questioning thiswhole God thing, we encourage
(42:22):
you to reach out to Gracefieldcommunity and we would like to
get you connected wherever youare.
We have community spaces andresources globally that we trust
to get you connected withEveryone.
Hope you have a wonderful andblessed day, take care.
Thank you for tuning in totoday's episode of Graceville
(42:43):
Community Podcast.
We would like to invite you tovisit gracevillecommunitycom.
Graceville Community is allabout doing church the way
Church of Acts did, using fivemain principles that we see in
the Book of Acts.
Sharing resources, as believerspool their possessions and
(43:05):
resources to support those inneed, as we see in Acts 2.44.
Through hospitality the earlyChristians practiced hospitality
by opening their homes toothers, as we see in Acts 2 and
46.
By financial aid the church inAntioch sent financial aid to
(43:27):
believers in Judea during a timeof famine, as described in Acts
11 and 29.
Prayer and encouragement theysupported each other through
prayer and encouragement, as wesee in Acts 4 and 24.
And finally, spiritual guidance.
The apostles and eldersprovided spiritual guidance and
(43:50):
teaching to help strengthen andbuild the community, as we see
in Acts 15 30.
I would like to encourage you.
If any of those areas are areasin which you are in need or can
contribute, please reach out toGraceville Community.
We are working together acrossthe world with ministries and
(44:12):
individuals alike, to help bringback the Church of Acts.
My name is Nicole Cater, your host, founder and
servant leader of GracefieldCommunity.
I want to thank you for tuningin to Gracefield Community
Podcast.
This is a safe space, a placein which we just share stories
of how God has touchedindividuals' lives all across
the world and how they are nowimpacting the kingdom of God.
(00:21):
Thank you for tuning in.
Blessings to you.
Hello Grace Field communitylisteners, I am so excited for
you to tune in today.
I have a guest here that I knowwe're going to have some fun
Grace Field style conversationsstyle conversations, so I'm not
(00:44):
going to withhold time andconversation.
Let's get directly to it, john.
(01:09):
Welcome John.
Thank you, nicole.
I appreciate the opportunity totalk to you and to your
listeners Absolutely Well.
I am excited for us to dive intoday here at Graceville
Community.
Please tell our listeners justa little bit about yourselves
and some background so when westart talking they know that
there's some context inside ofyou.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, to be true to my teaching that we do in our
digital workshop.
My name is JR.
I am a born again son of themost high God.
I think that when a believercan start to introduce
themselves that way as opposedto are they married?
What do they do for work, thatsort of thing that kind of takes
the the relationship that youhave with the father to a
(01:57):
different level.
I have been in the softwaredevelopment industry for over 40
years Now, with my own businessfor nearly 40 years where we
developed wholesale distribution, accounting, manufacturing,
software, and my plan was I wasgoing to do that till my
retirement age and then slowlywind it down and got had a
(02:17):
different plan and in 2016, hekind of put me on a timeout with
the software company saying,all right, yeah, you're not
going to do that anymore.
I got something else for you,and that led me to finding and
founding the Brushfires Ministryin 2017.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yes, awesome, okay.
So we're going to get into somedeep dive conversation here,
but before we do, tell us just alittle bit about what
Brushfires Ministry does here.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
But, before we do, tell us just a little bit about
what Brush Fires Ministry does.
So one of the things that hadbeen really frustrating for me
is seeing the ineffectiveness ofthe church, where we're not
really making an impact, andthat, I think, is because most
of the people that are part ofthe body of Christ are not doing
what they were created to do,and that's been something that's
bugged me now for well over 20years, but I didn't really know
(03:07):
what to do about it.
I'm not a pastor.
I don't have that position inthe church to have that sort of
influence.
And God, in 2016, led me intothis psychometric assessment
training program that Iinitially said no to because it
didn't make any sense,considering my financial
(03:28):
position and everything elsethat was going on in my life,
and what I discovered was we areall uniquely designed and
there's a way for us to discoverthat design through
psychometric assessments.
Psychometric assessments arelike DISC or Myers-Briggs.
Psychometric assessments arelike DISC or Myers-Briggs, the
one that we happened to use.
We have the license to be ableto reproduce these, and they
(03:52):
were all created by born-againbelievers, and so for me, it was
like alright, I got theseassessments.
That allows us to discover.
But the church doesn't embracethis teaching.
And in May of 2017, I wascontemplating my purpose
statement, which is a statementthat we develop at the end of
our program.
The purpose statement read suchas this I must strategically
(04:15):
lead a gifted team to embracethe power of their God-given
design for long-term positiveresults.
So I looked at that and I goall right, well, embrace the
power of the God-given design.
That's the psychometricassessments.
That tells me that that firstpart I must strategically lead,
nicole.
I've been put into theleadership position since I was
(04:37):
18.
It's like I can't avoid beingpromoted into these spots and
eventually my own, being theowner of my own software company
.
So it's just like that's alwayshappened.
And then the last part, whichwas to produce long-term
positive results that's goodfruit.
That's Galatians 5.22.
So I'm looking at that and I'mgoing all right.
(04:59):
Well, you got the assessments.
The church is not embracing thisteaching.
What do you got to do?
And at that point in time, Isaid well, I guess I'm going to
write the curriculum tointroduce this to the church.
That eventually became theDigital Workshop Program and
that's where we're at now.
The interesting thing, nicolebecause a lot of people ask us
(05:20):
about the name of the ministry.
As soon as I made the mentalagreement that I was going to
write the curriculum for theprogram, god gave me the name.
I know it was heard in my mindfirst that I was the first one
to speak it out, but I can'ttake credit for the name because
(05:42):
God just gifted it to me.
As soon as I made thatagreement he said and you're
going to call it Brush FiresMinistry.
It was sort of funny.
It's always been a cool name,their God-given design and
(06:10):
purpose.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I love it.
I love it.
So you said a keyword that'snear and dear to me and I'm just
going to get on this topicdiscipleship.
And I'm just going to get onthis topic, discipleship.
You know, recently I was havinga conversation with someone and
I was stating and this is whatGracefield is about is just we
confront things, as Paul did.
Right, let's just be head on,direct with what we need to
improve as sons and daughters ofGod.
(06:37):
Right, are we doing the greatcommission?
Are we doing it effectively?
Are we bearing fruit andteaching others as well how to
bear that fruit?
And so we talk aboutdiscipleship and especially the
state of discipleship in thechurch.
I want to ask you, like what doyou consider to be the state of
discipleship in the churchtoday?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I actually think it's atrocious.
It's just not there.
There are various aspects of agood discipleship program that
are in place.
There are churches that havegreat biblical scholars that are
teaching real good theology andreally making that message, and
(07:18):
there's some that are reallyhaving a relationship where men
and women are being heldaccountable and are in this sort
of things.
But that's just a small part ofit.
If you look at what Christ didwith his apostles, what he did
was he taught them one-on-one.
The other thing was, becausehe's God, he knew exactly what
(07:41):
Peter's design was.
He knew that he was impetuous,but he was a born leader.
He knew John's heart and hisheart for humanity.
He knew all these things aboutthem.
Why?
Because he created them.
Well, we have a way of beingable to do that too.
So over the last number of years, one of the things that has
(08:01):
frustrated me is that when weget a person to the design
discovery meeting, which is whenwe develop those purpose
statements and every one isunique.
There isn't one that is thesame as the other.
We get them to that point andyou can see the revelation and
the confirmation in the person'seyes.
I mean, oftentimes they'rebawling because they're being
(08:22):
seen for the first time, Thingsthat they were frightened to be
able to speak out because otherpeople shouted them down.
Oh, you're not a leader, You'rejust being excuse the word
bitchy, you know.
I mean, a lot of ladies getthat, A lot of lady leaders get
you're just bossy or you're justthis or that.
And so what happens is, youknow, they get to this place and
(08:47):
they go okay, I am being seen,and then that's the mountaintop
experience, and then they godown and then they go back to
life and the missing ingredientwas discipleship.
So what we are doing now iswe're actually in a process of
developing a discipleshipframework.
This is not a program.
This is not a cookie-cutterthing.
This is going to take realeffort on church leaders to
(09:11):
employ, but it's the way, Ibelieve, that Christ wants it
done.
What we do is we take ourdesign analysis and our purpose
statements and we say, all right, this is what the person is
designed for.
Who do we have as a strongleader in the church?
A discipler, a mentor that wecan partner this person with so
(09:35):
that they can start to help themwalk out the sanctification
process and be able to grow inthat?
So it's discipleship with anintentionality, with a purpose.
Think of it as being recruitedinto the army.
When you're recruited into thearmy, they send you through a
series of batteries of tests andthose tests are intended to
(09:58):
figure out what your aptitudesare in a certain area.
So if you're up there at theshooting range and you're
hitting bullseyes in a certainarea, so if you're up there at
the shooting range and you'rehitting bullseyes, guess who's
going to get promoted to thesniper division?
Because you have that gifting,you have that skill set.
The church can do the samething.
We can find out who ourcounselors are.
Our assessments reveal that.
(10:18):
We can find out who ourteachers are.
Our assessments can reveal thatwe can find out who our leaders
are.
And then we take that and wetrain their leaders how to walk
them out in their design and sothat they can actually become
who it is that God is wantingthem to be.
Now, traditional discipleship,as it's being done in the church
(10:41):
, is still necessary.
I cannot send a new recruit outinto the battlefield to be
chewed up by the enemy if theydon't have biblical foundations.
They need to know certainthings to be true.
They need to know that they aresaved by faith and it's grace
and it's not by works.
(11:01):
They need to know that Christwas 100% man and 100% God.
They need to understand thesetruths so that, when the enemy
attacks them, they can fall backon the truths of the gospel,
their position in Christ, and goyeah, not today, enemy, I am
not going to be tempted intothat sin, I am not going to be
dismayed, I'm not going to bediscouraged, because I know who
(11:23):
created me and I know what hecreated me for.
Sorry, you get me talking aboutthis and it's so close to my
heart, Nicole, I just run withit.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Right, no, I hear you .
I understand, because I fallwithin the same line.
Right, I have been in aspectsof ministries behind the scenes
for over 20 years and inmultiple various ministries, and
especially in what I do now ina Graceville community serving
ministries with leadershipdevelopment.
That's one of the main thingsthat I see, especially in when
(11:58):
you have your small, yourmid-sized churches.
It's this aspect of, oh, we havesomebody here, they just got
saved last week and we needvolunteers, and so we kind of
like it's just thinking, like wethrow them in and it's like, oh
, just spend time here andeventually you'll grow and
develop, which is very true,right, as they're sitting under
the word, they will grow anddevelop, but there are some
(12:22):
innate abilities that the Lordcreated in them that if we take
the time to really get to knowthem, get to know their
strengths, find out actuallywhat are their weaknesses, right
, paul teaches us that we haveour weaknesses there, so that we
still find ourselves having togo back to God because we do
(12:42):
have these weaknesses.
So it's important to understand,like, what are your strengths,
what are your weaknesses, andhow does that come together in
the body?
Because we each carry a part ofthe body.
So I'm right there with you,because I think it is a thing of
our discipleship aspect thatgets thrown off in churches.
Right, and we do it in theworkplace, we do it in corporate
and not the church is corporate.
(13:03):
But I am a firm believer thatthere are some things that do
happen, that corporate does,that the business world has,
does that we can utilize in thechurch to be even greater
effective, for which really isoutreach right.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Well, that is the case.
I mean, there's actually twothings that the church has been
called to do, and it's the lasttwo words that Christ gave to
the church.
First of all is spread thegospel.
Okay, so evangelism is amandate, but the other one is
discipleship.
Make disciples.
Disciples are people that areintentionally doing what they
(13:39):
were created to do.
Use the word weakness and whenwe're referring to sin or lack
of education or training, okay,I'll accept it in that area, but
I don't want it to be thisconcept where, okay, I have to
be more of an evangelist becauseI'm 0% evangelist and that's
not really where my heart is.
(14:01):
No, that's not the case.
God created me to be a leader.
Now will I evangelize atvarious times when called upon?
Absolutely.
But my focus should be inleadership, building other
leaders and helping them tounderstand what they were
created to do.
So I prefer the wordshortcomings, because once we
know what those are, then weknow who in the body of Christ
(14:25):
is missing in our ministry tofill that need that we can't
fill on our own.
We were built for communitycommunity with God, but also
community with one another.
We are stronger and moreeffective when we work together.
I mean the people that havecome alongside our ministry to
help us develop the onlinedigital community workshop
(14:49):
videos, the people that haveworked with me on the various
books that I've released, thepeople that have come alongside
and made resources that they'vespent their life invested in.
Those have all been part of themissing pieces that are
necessary.
So we need to teach one anotherthat we're not lone ranger
Christians, that we are designedto work in community.
(15:10):
That the enemy understands thatwill use our differences
against us.
He'll use the fact that Mary isa high creative and Martha is a
high maximizer and Martha doesnot like Mary messing up her
well-established program andMary's going.
But there's a better way.
We could do it better.
I just want to make it betterand Martha is like all over
(15:35):
because guess what?
You're messing with.
How it's always been, we'vealways done it this way.
Why are we changing it?
Community is what is necessaryfor these things to be
accomplished, and that's whatthe church is supposed to be
about individually raising upthe specific warriors that God
has created, that he has putunder your shepherding, so that
(15:59):
they can become the best versionof what God created them to be,
and then partnering them withthe other members of the body to
accomplish his will.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yes, absolutely, his will, yes, absolutely.
You brought up a great pointearlier and I'm going to go back
to it of when we look at howJesus even gave us the example
of how he had his apostles rightand I think it's, you know,
ideal.
If we just look at that example.
He took 12 and he took 12 andhe spent time with them and he
(16:30):
nurtured them and he pulledtheir strengths Right and he
gave them all roles within asthey traveled and what they did.
And I think one of the thingsthat we see in discipleship with
church is like OK, I want totake this 200.
Well, it's impossible for oneperson and this was Jesus who
created them.
That said, I'm going to workwith these 12.
Who created them?
That said I'm going to workwith these 12.
(16:51):
Now, yes, did he speak to themasses?
Yes, but his disciple, hisapostle, was those 12 and he
developed them and then said yougo out Right.
And so, as we talk about thesolutions for discipleship, like
one thing I think about is slowgrowth Sometimes I think we
(17:11):
want that instant gratification,especially now here, we are in
2025 where everything I meanpressure cooker is quick, Like I
don't even know if people stilluse slow cookers anymore.
Like you know, everything islike given to us now and
discipleship is a process, andso when I when I'm thinking
about that, I also understandthat sometimes the things that
(17:35):
it takes slow, it's time for usto receive, there's a greater
joy behind it, right cooker,when I take that, meat out the
slow cooker.
It is nice and tender and juicyand it falls perfectly apart.
(17:56):
I'm like I did this Versus.
When I pop something in amicrowave, I'm like, yeah, the
manufacturer did a great job onthis right.
And so how do you thinkdiscipleship even connects and
purpose connects to, likeachieving aspects of joy?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
well.
So okay, that's a multi-foldquestion.
The very first thing that I dowant to address, and and say yes
and amen, is that it has to bedone in community and in small
groups.
You know, if jesus could onlyhandle 12 of us knuckle heads at
one time, how are we supposedto handle 200 or 2,000?
(18:33):
So that's number one, and theperson that is leading them
needs to be qualified, needs toactually be walking in their
purpose and actually have thefoundational items in place.
Number two with regards to joy,there's a difference between joy
and happiness.
In 2013, I wrote an articlecalled what is Joy, and I made,
(18:57):
first of all, the distinctionhappiness is based upon your
circumstances.
When my wife puts down a mediumrare ribeye steak in front of
me, oh, I'm happy.
And if there's garlic mashedpotatoes, I'm even happier, you
know, and a nice crisp greensalad with blue cheese dressing,
oh, this has got to be a greatday.
I mean, that's sort of you know, that's sort of where that is,
(19:19):
but guess what, five, six bitesinto that meal and it's like,
all right, well, I'm not ashappy.
I'm still happy, but I'm not ashappy.
Joy is different.
Joy comes from within.
In 2013, I was sitting in achurch and the pastor was
talking about the Apostle Pauland about the specific
(19:43):
calamities that he went throughshipwrecked and being beat and
stoned and imprisoned and soforth and he counted it all joy.
And that's when God stepped inand I couldn't hear the pastor
anymore.
And so I'm sitting there goingall right.
This makes no human sense.
How is it possible that a humanbeing can go through all that
(20:03):
physical trauma and being turnedover by his fellow Jews and all
these other things?
How is that humanly possibleand still consider it all joy?
And that's when I was wrestlingover that and God whispered in
my ear because he was doing whatI created Him to do.
(20:24):
See, we cannot do the works ofGod on our own strengths and
abilities.
It doesn't do my ministry orour ministry any good if people
point to my giftings and say, ohwell, this is all because of
JR's technical abilities or thisor that.
No, that does not bring God theglory.
Did he use my talents?
In many ways, absolutely.
(20:47):
What brings God glory when I'min the middle of a design
discovery meeting and all of asudden he whispers in my ears
something about that person andyou see the shock on their face
where you go.
How did you know that?
I can't pull that off?
That's God working through me,and so forth.
So when you are doing the workof God and it is manifesting the
power of God, the individualgets to be used by God and the
(21:14):
humble one, the one that is notthinking it's all about them, is
going.
I got to partner with thecreator of the universe.
That produces joy, that givesyou a sense of purpose, that
gives you a sense of fulfillmentthat nothing else can and it
doesn't go away in five minutes.
(21:35):
It's like wow, I impacted thatperson's life and because God
used me in that way, they arenow off on this trajectory,
changing their lives andchanging other people's lives.
I got to play a part in that.
That's the difference betweenjoy and happiness.
Joy is sustaining, joy isfulfilling, Joy is empowering.
(21:59):
Joy comes from God.
Think of it this way whenyou're doing what you were
created to do, joy is when Godsmiles at you and says well done
son, well done daughter.
Hey, let's take a quick breakto tell you about Grace Filled
(22:23):
Community.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Grace Filled Community is an organization
that focuses on the primaryprinciples of the Church of Acts
, centered around buildingcommunities that impact the
kingdom of God.
We do this through three coreextensions.
One, graceville Church Network,where we empower churches and
nonprofits for God's success andgrowth.
We offer tailored growthstrategies rooted in biblical
(22:49):
principles that will help youexpand your reach and impact
your communities.
Just like the early church, wefocus not on attendance in
numbers but on discipleship,providing leadership teachings
and trainings to today'sministry leaders.
Our second extension is Projectof the Grace Field, where we
(23:09):
provide biblical counseling,mentorship, workshops and events
that are dedicated toencouraging individuals to live
a life filled with grace andpurpose, rooted in the
understanding that all havefallen short and are a working
project.
Let us help the individuals inyour community grow as they walk
(23:32):
with God and experience thefullness of his love.
Our third extension is thegrace-filled business.
Grace-filled business is hereto help small, faith-based
business owners develop theirbusiness in a way that honors
God, that brings increase andallows them to pour back into
his kingdom, through marketplaceministry and financing his
(23:53):
kingdom.
We do this through our 15 yearsof experience of virtual
administrative work, digitalmarketing, business development
and consulting.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yes, I love that.
I'm actually going to go to thescripture because there's
something I want to point out inthere so that for our listeners
, if you don't know, that'sJames 1.
And it's I'm going to kind ofread through because there's
something very key that we it'sin this, this verse, that all
joy when you fall into diversetemptations.
Verse three knowing this thatthe trying of your faith work is
(24:38):
patience.
Verse four is what my husbandlikes to say is the formula
Right, but let patience have herperfect work, that ye may be
perfect and entire, wantingnothing.
And I think often, you know, wejust hear that like wanting
nothing.
And the first thing that ourminds go to right is the
materialistic aspect right oflike wanting nothing, like I
(24:58):
don't have to want finances, Iwill have to want food and so
forth.
And then verse five continuesto say if you, if any of you,
lack wisdom, let him ask Godthat giveth all men liberally,
meaning that he you ask, he willgive answer right, like he
gives liberally if you ask ofhim.
And so the thing that I haveset with the Lord on about this
(25:20):
is, as you mentioned, like, Iremember the verse where Paul
talks about like it would begood to die, like he initially
acknowledges.
Like I'm sitting in prison,right, it would be okay for me
to die right now, like my humanbody says that might be better
because then I will be in glory,right.
But then he acknowledges butthe better thing is to remain
(25:45):
and do the work of God, like, dowhat he is called to do, do
what he has purpose to do, right.
And so, even when I think about,like our own temptations or our
trials and tribulations that wego through, I believe that
sometimes, as humanity, we walkinto those trials that we caused
.
You know, often we hear peopleput the term like oh, the devil
(26:07):
put me in this circumstance.
Well, no, it's because we'rewalking outside of the purpose
that we were created, in that wefind ourselves in consistent
trials and tribulations and itwill all come align if we walk
in purpose, in his purpose,which is what leads us to count
it all joy.
Because when you're walking inhis purpose, like you said with
(26:28):
Paul, like those circumstancesare not the driving factor for
you and they're not where yourjoy comes from, right, the joy
of the Lord is what gives usstrength, even in those
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's something that's a little bit beyond that.
Yes, we can applaud the outcomeand we can worship and praise
God for what he did, but there'ssomething about that intimate
relationship where God says I'mgoing to use your voice to
change this person's life.
I'm going to use you helpingthem to change this person's
(27:01):
life.
There is an exchange thathappens when you give your free
will over to God and there'ssomething that is deposited in
you.
Now we don't have time for allthe stories that we've gone
through, but there was one Ireferred to as the kryptonite
man, where I was doing a designdiscovery meeting and God spoke
to me in the middle of thedesign and it absolutely shook
(27:25):
me and shook him.
At the end of that day, at theend of those design discovery
meetings with him and his wife,I had to be poured into the
front seat of our car.
I couldn't drive.
I was so wiped out and drenchedfrom God using me in that man's
life.
(27:46):
So there is something that isexchanged and that is different
about joy and happiness.
Joy, actually.
There's something and I haven'tfigured it out yet, but I'm
going to.
One pastor said it's grace andI get that part of it.
But there's something that whenyou freely say yes, father, I
will be used by you and he comesthrough and works in your life
(28:08):
and changes another humanbeing's life through your
obedience.
There is something that isexchanged to that point that is,
the deposit of joy that'splaced in you is priceless.
It's that parable where Christsays the man finds a pearl and
(28:28):
he'll buy the entire fieldbecause he wants that pearl.
Guess what Joy is?
The same way, when you start toexperience it on a regular
basis and then you get the ideaor the concept, do you mean I
can continue to do this, I cancontinue to experience joy, I
can continue to get a reckoningfor all the terrible things that
(28:50):
the enemy has done in my life.
I can stick my finger in theenemy's eye and take back the
ground in my life or otherpeople's lives that he's stolen.
Oh yeah, I'm in, I'm all in.
And you get a taste of that, I'mtelling you, your sin problems
start to go away Because now yousay I don't want sin because
(29:12):
it's going to prevent me fromexperiencing joy.
It's an exchange that you.
It's like saying I'm going tohand you a hundred dollar bill
or a 10 cent coin.
Now a baby might grab the coinbecause it's.
You know, a dime is shiny.
An adult says oh, the hundreddollar bill is worth a lot more.
(29:32):
We're going to grab that.
That's the difference.
Don't settle for a dime ofimmediate gratification in sin
when you can receive hundreds ofdollars from your father of joy
.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yes, I love that analogy.
That is a excellent analogy andthat's exactly what it is right
.
It's the joy that is only givenby him, a joy that can't be
received in any other fashion orform.
Man, I feel like time flies bywhen you're having fun.
Right Flies by.
(30:08):
I looked at the time.
I'm like what happened?
Yeah, that was quick, I lookedat the time.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I'm like what happened?
Yeah, that was quick.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yes, it was.
You know, before we go, I dohave one more question that I
just I really want to get to andreally want to talk about is
the belief that every person isdesigned to serve humanity and
be a part of, like a ministryRight, what?
Are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Well, one of the unique things about doing our
program within a church bodywhere you have, you know, dozens
of people which we've done manylive workshops but we can also
be done online atbrushfire-digitalcom.
One of the unique things aboutdoing that in a body situation
(30:56):
is that you can describe certainattributes of a person's design
and they'll go oh yeah, that'sme.
And the person sitting next tothem will go man, that's not me
at all, when they can start tosee the diversity of God's
giftings amongst his children.
One of my favorite things thatwe do is we show the video no
(31:25):
Longer a Slave, okay, jonathanHesler and his wife Melissa.
In that song, towards the endof it, his wife Melissa just
takes off and that girl ispumping her fists in the air and
she's singing with everythingthat she has and she's just
(31:46):
absolutely in that moment.
You can see that there'snothing left.
Use a football analogy she leftit all in the field in
delivering that song and as soonas that's over, I will take a
person that is 90.
You're a 100% thinker and Iwill ask them tell me what you
thought.
And it'll be something likethis Well, she really executed
(32:10):
that song amazingly.
It was just really powerful andI could just feel the presence
of God and it was just reallyvery moving.
And then I'll go to the personwho's 90 or 100% thinker or 90
or 100% feeler and first of allthey're all bawling, they're
crying, they're absolutelyweeping because of the emotional
(32:32):
impact that they just wentthrough watching Melissa deliver
that song.
And the thinkers over there aregoing wow, we just watched the
same thing.
Why are they all crying?
And I'm not.
That polar opposite of design isintentional by God.
(32:52):
There's nothing wrong with thatthinker.
That thinker is designed to bea surgeon or a police officer or
in the military, somebody whoneeds to follow orders and do
things by precision and notallow their emotions to take
over them.
That feeler quite likely isgoing to be a counselor or a
(33:13):
coach or somebody that is thereto help nurture somebody else,
because they have an open,empathetic, sympathetic heart.
And when people start to seethe diversity of God's design in
a group setting through ourworkshop program, then they go
wow, I am uniquely designed.
It's great with husbands andwives.
(33:37):
All of a sudden the wife goes.
Well, the reason he doesn'treally express his feelings and
emotions is because he controlsthem by his thinker.
He has feelings and emotions.
He just doesn't let them get inthe way of his decisions.
Right, and my part in ourrelationship if she's the feeler
(34:00):
and he's the thinker is to lethim know when his objectivity
has gone too far and he needs tohave some compassion and some
empathy for his children or forhis fellow man.
What gets even more twisted,nicole, and we see this recently
(34:20):
, we've been exploring thisdynamic.
We typically will associate ahigh thinker with a male
personality and a high feelerwith a female personality.
But God doesn't do that.
We have watched many marriagesthat we have helped restore,
because the guy's the feeler andthe woman is the thinker and
(34:41):
she's basically ashamed of herman because he's got emotions
and you know, basicallyemasculating him and he's trying
to put on a strong face becauseyou know he's supposed to be
this kind of guy and he's not.
And we see tremendous divisionbeing created by the enemy
because these preconceived ideasof what is a man has been
(35:04):
placed on certain types ofdesign types.
If a woman is a high thinkerand a guy's a high fielder,
there's nothing wrong with that.
God's just got different workfor them to do.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yes, absolutely, I absolutely love that.
I don't know, have you heard ofhow we love?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I don't think I have no.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Okay, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like we're going here,
but how we love is a um, a studythat we use very often within
graceful community when we dobiblical counseling with couples
, and very similar to what itdescribes is you really look at
the five different love styles,right, and how those love styles
are taken, right From childhood, from what you've seen, did you
(35:50):
become an avoider?
Did you become a people pleaser?
Did you become, and how thosethings carry out into adulthood?
and then understanding how dothey come together with your
relationships, withrelationships with each other as
a couple, your relationshipswith your kids and relationships
amongst community, and so it'svery similar in the aspect we
(36:12):
sit with couples all the timeand we tend to do that with like
a study group in a small groupsettings so actually just last
week we did the first assessmentwith our newest semester of
group and there were couples inthere that are like, like you
said, the husband is more of theempathetic, more of the filler,
but he's been trying tosuppress those things because
(36:34):
that's not what society has saidthe male should express, or the
male should be right.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
He probably got beat up by bigger boys as a kid
because you know he dared to cry.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Oh, you're a sissy, you're this or that.
So he learned real quick If Ishow my emotions, I get hurt.
I don't want to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Absolutely.
And so that leads me into apoint of like, why and I'm going
right back to that discipleshipcomponent of why it's key to
take that time to disciple, likeyou said, in small group
settings, right?
Because when I'm speaking tothe masses, and I'm speaking to
2000 people, I don't get achance to understand what was
(37:15):
your childhood like?
What are the things that shapedyou, what are the things from
your yesterday that you'vebrought into today that has
shaped and formed even how youwalk in your purpose.
Right, there are things, likeyou know, as a maximizer, I can
walk in purpose, but I do needsomebody that sometimes says hey
, nicole, celebrate the moment.
(37:36):
The moment was good.
We could talk about everythingwe need to improve tomorrow
right.
Like, let's celebrate tonight.
You need that and that's theimportance of community and
that's what acts Like.
If I I look at acts and I lookat how community was established
.
Right, there was sharing ofresources, there was financial
aid provided, there was prayerand encouragement, hospitality,
(37:56):
spiritual guidance, like it saidthat the community none went
without, because they understoodthat each person had a part,
each person had a purpose, eachperson had resources that was
meant to supply the community.
So I say all that to say, jr, Iabsolutely love what you guys
are doing at Brush Fires.
(38:17):
I know we could probably talkfor another like five, six hours
, we could go a couple of days,but I should let us at least get
lunch and continue the rest ofour day.
So, that being said, please,just to our listeners, how can
they make sure to stay connectedwith you?
I know we'll put links in theshow notes, but I want them to
(38:37):
hear from you Like what, whatwould be the ideal person also
that should reach out to you, tobe connected with you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, man, there's our, because our ministry deals
with people and we are trying tohelp them get from where
they're at to where God wantsthem to be.
It could be a strugglingmarriage.
It could be somebody who'ssimply going I know there's more
for me in this Christian thing,but I haven't been able to
discover it.
It could be somebody who's beenstuck in an area that they are
(39:07):
completely unhappy about andthey're afraid to even complain
about it because you know you'renot supposed to be grumbling.
But if you know, if you'redesigned for something else and
they've put you in children'sministry for the last 15 years,
there may be something more foryou out there that God really
wants to do.
I would say, first of all, goto our website,
(39:30):
brushfiresjewelcom.
If you simply register as a newuser, we will give you one of
our assessments for free.
Our spiritual gifts assessmentis always made free.
We're going to give you twobooks up front, one that I wrote
and one that was written by oneof our graduates.
I'm actually going and releasingmy fifth book and that will be
made available on that platformcalled Sparks Turn Into
(39:53):
Brushfires.
But then look at our premiumpackages, and in the premium
packages I would stronglyencourage you to sign up for one
of those.
You'll get the workbook, you'llget the eight-session video
series about 130-some hours ofvideo presentation You'll get
the 11 different assessments andat the very end of it, you'll
(40:18):
get a three-hour coachingsession where we will develop
your purpose statement.
For you, if you were doing thisas a husband and a wife, the
wife will be present when thehusband does his, and vice versa
, so they can actually get toknow each other at a much deeper
soul level.
You can do that for as littleas $59 a month that's how low
(40:44):
the bar is to be able to do this.
And we are also looking forcounselors and coaches and
church leaders.
I would prefer teaching churchleaders how to do what we do and
them absolutely being the onesthat are implementing and them
(41:04):
shepherding their flockinternally.
And if they need our supportand training, we'll train the
leaders.
But that's where we're at rightnow.
We're in the multiplicationphase of our ministry and we
want to work with leaders ofChristian organizations and
churches so that they can bringthe best out of their people,
the best out of what God wantsto do in their ministry.
(41:28):
So, brushfires-digitalcom,register as a new user and that
will.
It's free to register and thatwill get you started.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Awesome.
Well, jr, thank you so much foryour time today, thank you for
pouring out, and I do want tosay just thank you for all that
you're doing, you and yourorganization, and I know it
takes a team your team to justsupport and really advance the
kingdom of God.
So thank you for being on today.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Well, thank you, nicole, and I look forward to
working with you and others aswe go forward.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yes, yes, well, graceful listeners, as always,
we hope that you have enjoyedtoday's podcast.
I do want to encourage you tomake sure to check out the show
notes, see how you can beconnected and get connected.
If you are in a space where youdo not have community, or if
you are even questioning thiswhole God thing, we encourage
(42:22):
you to reach out to Gracefieldcommunity and we would like to
get you connected wherever youare.
We have community spaces andresources globally that we trust
to get you connected withEveryone.
Hope you have a wonderful andblessed day, take care.
Thank you for tuning in totoday's episode of Graceville
(42:43):
Community Podcast.
We would like to invite you tovisit gracevillecommunitycom.
Graceville Community is allabout doing church the way
Church of Acts did, using fivemain principles that we see in
the Book of Acts.
Sharing resources, as believerspool their possessions and
(43:05):
resources to support those inneed, as we see in Acts 2.44.
Through hospitality the earlyChristians practiced hospitality
by opening their homes toothers, as we see in Acts 2 and
46.
By financial aid the church inAntioch sent financial aid to
(43:27):
believers in Judea during a timeof famine, as described in Acts
11 and 29.
Prayer and encouragement theysupported each other through
prayer and encouragement, as wesee in Acts 4 and 24.
And finally, spiritual guidance.
The apostles and eldersprovided spiritual guidance and
(43:50):
teaching to help strengthen andbuild the community, as we see
in Acts 15 30.
I would like to encourage you.
If any of those areas are areasin which you are in need or can
contribute, please reach out toGraceville Community.
We are working together acrossthe world with ministries and
(44:12):
individuals alike, to help bringback the Church of Acts.
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