An Overactive Throat Chakra with Dr. Katherin Garland

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Once I started healing, I'm likejust blurting out all these
things like I'm adopted and I'm blah, blah, blah.
And I used to do this and that'snot appropriate either, right?
So it's like like if you believein, you know, chakras or
something like that, it's kind of like the difference between
having an overactive throat chakra and an under active one,
right? And so I was definitely

(00:20):
overactive and I had to learn like what, you know, like
everybody doesn't need to. I don't need to tell everybody
every little thing, right? I think if we can talk about
parents for a minute. All right, how much time do you
got? You're like you started this.

(01:01):
Welcome to another episode of graphic content, the podcast
where we talk all things who, why and what the fuck now.
My guest today. She is an award-winning creative
non fiction writer and Blogger. Her debut memoir in search of a
solve memoir of a sex addict waspublished in 2023 and she's the
Co founder of the black adopteesmeet up Doctor Catherine

(01:22):
Garland. I should add in the the sound of
that for you, I will. Thank you.
How are you? I am well, how are you?
I'm great, honestly, leading up to this chat, I so I reached out
to you on a whim and I was thinking about who I wanted to

(01:45):
talk to based on these creativesthat I know and I was a little
nervous because you have so manyaccolades.
I was a little bit like, would she even consider this project
when I hadn't even I hadn't evenhad.
I just released my first episode2 days ago and I asked you like
a month ago. I saw that.
Congratulations. Thank you, but I I'm so

(02:05):
appreciative of you taking the time to chat with me that this
is an honor, honestly. I appreciate it.
I like listen, I don't the way Ilive my life.
I don't even I think because of my background.
I got a PhD in 2010, and it really like the process of
getting that doctorate wasn't about the doctorate I'm

(02:27):
learning. It was about like me learning
all these little things. And what I learned is that
people are just people. Like you put people on these
pedestals and no, they're just like, you know, they're just
like us. It's, it's true.
I people, I've been asked the question, you know, like, do you
have idols? And I'm like, honestly, no,
because to me, everybody, regardless of what stage of

(02:50):
their careers they are, they're we all kind of as creatives, we
all go through the same in our own version of it, right?
Our own struggles and paths. And if if we start to compare,
if you look at the higher level,it's all we're all kind of the
same. It's all the same.
Yeah. So I'm here and I appreciate
you. Thank you.
So looking into your background and I first met you, was it last

(03:15):
year now? That was two years ago.
Actually. Well, OK, so six months ago,
like, well, right, right. It seems like it was yesterday.
But so let's say like a year anda half ago, but it was 23
October 2023. Yeah.
Wow, that's wild. I know.
And so. So how did you end up in

(03:36):
Windsor, ON? Right.
So Doctor Denardo, who I called Doctor D.
Yes, me too. Yeah, she became a really good
friend of mine through blogging.So I started blogging in like
2015. And I want to say maybe she did

(03:57):
this like around the same time. And unlike other social media,
blogging really is like a safe space.
It's a place where there's actual community.
And she was one of those people,like, we just vibe like from the
beginning. And we would kind of boost each
other up and read each other's work.
And then we did 2020 hit. That's what happened.

(04:20):
COVID hit and I was losing my shit and I was like, I don't, I
mean, like who wasn't? But I was like, what should I
do? So I did this Mental Health
Matters series and my intent wasto reach out to people.
For some reason, I have a lot ofpeople who are like in the
mental health field in some capacity and she's one of those

(04:41):
people. So I was like, well, do you,
maybe we can like just have a conversation.
It's on YouTube. So we have this conversation.
It's amazing, mainly because we were so cool, but that was the
first time that we'd actually like seen each other virtually.
So we spent a lot of time just kind of like Owen and I over,
you know, over one another and gushing and all the things.

(05:05):
And then she taught me somethingwe talked about, I think it was
about situational anxiety. And she's such an amazing
professor. She's really good at what she
does. She kind of walks the talk.
But that video, I don't want to say it went viral, but you know,
like, I think it got posted at Saint Clair like some place on

(05:29):
somebody's website. And the students really enjoyed
it. So anyway, time passes and we
get a little cooler and my book is coming out and I'm like, how
Like, where can I go to, you know, promote this book?
And I asked her. I said, do you think I could
come to Saint Clair? And 1st she was like, I don't

(05:52):
know, I don't think so. So I was like, OK, whatever.
Yeah. So then she circled back.
She was like, you know, I thought about it.
And I was like, why not? Like, why wouldn't you come
here? And I was like, yeah, let's do
it. So we that was it.
See, and it's just those, those chances, right, where you're
just having a conversation and then, you know, you just ask the
question and like, it's like this here we are, right?
We're having this conversation. That's the thing that I love

(06:14):
about the Internet right now. As as shit as it is, let's be
real, it is a dumpster fire. It really is.
This kind of thing is what galvanizes me in my own life, is
to use it in a way that allows me to communicate with people
who have inspiring paths. And I think that you are
absolutely one of those people. I just hearing your story.

(06:35):
First of all, I had no idea whatI was getting into.
I, she invited me and she 'causeI'm friends with Doctor D and
she sent me. She's like, hey, like this thing
is happening at Saint Clair. Like, do you wanna come?
And I remember being in just like a weird phase of my life.
I was like, you know what, like,I need to get out of the condo,
like get out of my place and just meet new people, get out

(06:56):
there. And it was just hearing your
story and we'll get into it. But yeah, having you talk about
your your book because it's directly from you hearing the
person who wrote it. How has it been touring with the
book? Like how do you find your
audiences are connecting with you?
Yeah, first of all, thank you for saying that and what I have

(07:18):
found. So I'll tell you, when I wrote
this book, I was thinking, I'm going to be talking about sex
addiction. I'm going to be talking about
addiction. I wrote it for women.
I wrote it specifically for black and brown women because
we're so marginalized, right. But I'll tell you what, like
Saint Clair was one of the firstplaces that I began to

(07:39):
understand that this is bigger than like whatever my brain
made-up it was about. Rarely have I talked about sex
addiction. That's one thing.
Apparently it has connected withpeople on different levels for
different reasons. I remember specifically there
was a young man, his, I think his name is Anthony from Iran,

(08:01):
who was in the audience. And he loved the book because he
talked about the issues that he has with his father, his own
father. And so it kind of helped him to,
I don't want to say process, butit helped him to kind of
understand, you know, like he's not alone.
He's not some like Unicorn whosefather abandoned him.

(08:24):
There are others out there like him.
And so that really has been, it's been so interesting to like
talk to different people, including you, right?
Like, I don't think we're alike.And this is the point, right?
It's like you think that you're not alike or, or you think that
you're the only person who has like some issue.
And that's absolutely natural. So that's what I've really been

(08:47):
learning. That's and that's the special
thing about being human, I feel,especially in the last couple of
years, like we've really, there's been so much light shed
on the fuckery that we live in and we have to see that we come
from different places, but we are all the same thing and the
societal structure that we live within has been designed to

(09:11):
separate. Us separate everyone, yeah.
Right. And I'm like, I'm so over it.
Like I'm can we fucking move on?I want to move forward.
We can't. I don't know why, but it's no, I
totally agree. I totally agree.
I think separation has been the like the main thing for
everything, right? So if I can convince you that
your issues as a man are not thesame as the issues I have as a

(09:36):
woman, which may or may not be true, If I can convince someone
that my issues as a black woman are different than issues of a
Palestinian woman, then yeah. Then it's like, who cares?
Right? Until.
Because I don't have to care about your issue if I'm not like
you, right? Yeah.
Until something happens and you're like, uh oh.

(09:58):
I, I can sympathize, but I can'tempathize with certain things
because I did not, I don't come from that background.
I don't have that experience. You know, when you're talking
about relationships to parents, things like that.
Not to get too deep into my own shit, but it but that I connect
with that because culturally so I'm Italian.
My parents are immigrant, very old school, you know, macho, no

(10:22):
feelings, no emotion, no. And I'm I'm a little gay boy.
It's. Crumbling on the inside
somewhere, yeah. Yeah, looking for that
connection. And so, you know, now I'm 37
this year and I'm coming to terms with so many things where
I'm like, I have a lot of unresolved shit from when I was

(10:43):
a kid that I'm realizing, OK, it's there.
I acknowledge it, but I'm tryingnot to let it over shadow like
my current state because I feel like I have evolved.
And so with you and your story, talk a little bit about the
memoir itself because I do wannafor anyone who doesn't know,
like where, where did it come from?
Where did it stand from? And what inspired you to put

(11:04):
this together? It took me about 9 years to
write this memoir and something happened.
Of course I'm not gonna say, butbecause I wasn't in, I was in an
addiction cycle. Like most addicts.
I had a rock bottom moment whereI could not afford to continue

(11:26):
to live the way that I was living.
And that made me kind of like stop and say, OK, what actually
fucking happened here? Yes, cuz I, cuz so for people
who aren't, who don't have an addict's brain, because our
brains are different when, when we're in that cycle, it's hard

(11:48):
to understand like why would youkeep repeating like doing the
same thing over and over and over, right?
Even if you have like a friend, right?
Yeah. We'll talk, right?
Sometimes you'll have a friend who, like, I had a friend whose
mom used to drink all the time and she would get sloppy drunk.

(12:09):
Sometimes the police would be involved, and then she'd do it
right over again the next day. And the friend was like, why
does she keep doing this? And I'm like, because you're not
consciously doing something right?
No, but so this rock bottom moment caused me to stop and
say, OK, I have no idea why. I think it was 41 at the time.
I'm like, why am I 41? Married with two preteen

(12:33):
daughters, still doing the things I was doing like at 16
and 19, right? So I started as like literally
sat and I did a meditation. It was a relationship
meditation. And I'm thinking the
relationship meditation is gonnabe telling me like, what's wrong
with everybody else so that I can like interact with, so I can

(12:54):
interact with them, right? And of course not.
The relationship meditation is like all about the relationship
you have with yourself. Yes.
Yeah. And so, so specifically, there
were all these questions. One of the questions was like,
what are you afraid of? And my answer was, I'm afraid
that if people really knew who Iwas, they wouldn't love me.

(13:18):
And then I was just like, oh, no, I really think that.
And I had never thought. And then it just kind of went
from there. So I started just writing, tried
to think of my earliest memory of just myself in the book.
There's a a part at the end now it says something like books
were my sustenance or something like that.

(13:38):
So if that was my first sentencewhen I was sitting down trying
to figure out who I am and how Igot to be where I was, as I
started writing, I started reading things.
I read about codependence and I was like, aha, that's it.
I'm just, I'm just codependent. I started reading about trying
to think of what else it was, all these different things.
And with each iteration, I'm like changing this.

(14:03):
What I don't know is a book, right?
I just think it's just me writing.
But then I start thinking like, oh, this would be a cool story.
Like, sure, never in a million years did I think I was going to
write about sex addiction at all.
Because again, I am a mother, a mother to two daughters.
I'm a wife, I'm a professor. And so I was like, I'm not about
to. I read the sex addiction

(14:25):
literature and that's when I waslike, oh, that's what's wrong.
I am. Well, I was a sex addict.
And so we change, like I revisedeverything, changed the whole
book to specifically hit on these ideas to show people

(14:47):
again, because sometimes when wetalk about sex addiction, we
think of white men. That's who we think of.
If every time I say this, even when it first came out, my
friends were like, I don't thinkyou're Are you sure this is what
it is? And then, of course, they read
the book and they're like, oh, OK, you're right.
I'm not the face of sex addiction is my point.

(15:08):
Right. So anyway, over these nine
years, I'm writing, figuring myself out, writing more,
reading more stuff, read the sexaddiction literature, decide it
is, that's what it is, and made a really conscious decision.
Like this is the book that has to be written and published.
Yeah. We're moving into an era of

(15:29):
especially where we live in a society that is very focused on
the surface, you know, the, the fake.
I feel like we're, I'm hoping that we are moving into an era
where people are, people are becoming more open, they're
talking about themselves more freely.
And that's, that's the stuff that I resonate with the most.
And I don't necessarily I like, I connect with people who are

(15:53):
authentic and I try my best to be authentic.
And even in this platform, I find I I myself, but I'm like,
what do, what do I reveal? What do I keep to myself, you
know, because I don't want to completely put everything out
there. And so to someone like me who's
on in the early stages of this project, like, what would I

(16:14):
know? This is maybe cheesy, but like,
what's your advice to being authentic and open about, you
know, or like setting boundariesfor yourself on what you open up
about when it comes to like the really personal stuff?
Yeah, so two things come to mind.
I've recently talked to a friendwho's known me for a long time,
and he was like, Kathy, I don't care what you put in that butt.

(16:35):
I know he was like, you didn't tell everybody everything.
And I know that. And I was like, no, you're
right, he's right. The other thing is as I was
touring, I had to make a conscious decision.
And early on, my decision was weare not talking about Mr.
Garland because the book is not the Mr. and Missus Garland book,

(17:00):
that I didn't want it to be likethat.
I didn't want it to read like that.
My husband and I have been together for over 30 years.
Like I've known him since I was 19.
So of course, like he had, he's in the book.
Yeah, of. Course right, but not as like a
main character like this is not a a novel about us.

(17:20):
And so in speaking, that was oneof my boundaries.
I was like, I'm not answering any of any questions about him.
I'm just not. So you are going to have to
decide like what is for public consumption, right, and what is
just for you. What my sister tells me all the
time is sometimes you, you should just write just for you,

(17:43):
which I do like a journal. Everything is not for everyone
to consume. So I think that would be the
advice that I give to you, too. And you know what those things
are, right. And you can also have like,
some, like, as I was touring early on, I had like, just some
basic answers that pretty much everyone asks the same questions
over and over. So yeah.

(18:04):
Yeah. And so I think you should kind
of do the same, like maybe just have like, what is your focus so
that, you know, this is what I'mgoing to say to people or and
that like, I'm not gonna discussthese things over here.
Yeah, cuz to me, I wanna, my focus is not, this isn't about
me. I don't want this to be about
me. And like, obviously I'm the one

(18:26):
facilitating it, but I, I reallywanted this, this platform to be
about who I'm speaking to and their lives.
Yeah. So I'm learning, you know, like
how much of myself do I interject because I obviously am
part of this, like I'm, but at the same time, like I'm way more
interested in what you have to say, right?
And so it's like, how do I strike that balance?
And I'm not like asking you like, help me.

(18:47):
It's more like, no, no, no, you know what I mean?
Like it's very much like, how doyou strike that balance where my
personality is here? But I also, I'm like, I'm all
about the guest. I really want to focus on your
your story. Yeah, I think that's the, I have
so many thoughts, you'll see that.
But like. I'm I'm a chatty bitch so.
So it works out good. So like, there's two things.

(19:09):
I have a friend who's a podcaster.
I think that part of podcasting is, is you do have to censor the
guest, right? Of course.
And it's OK to be like, oh, I understand what you're saying,
right? But there are some podcasts I
listen to where I'm like, why isthis person talking so much?

(19:29):
I want to hear from whoever theyhave on, right?
So I think there's like such a fine line between like interests
and also like, oh, that resonated.
And let me tell you why. But you're definitely
decentering yourself. I know and, and that's the, I
know there's a lot of conversation about like white
people in general decentering themselves.

(19:49):
So it's like, I fully understand.
It's this like I, I don't, I don't also don't want it to be
about me. To me.
I it's like whatever, who cares Like.
I mean, sometimes it's interesting when you're like,
yeah, me too, right? So on that note, when it comes
to podcasting preparing for today, you have so much content
online, it's wild. Good.

(20:10):
No, it's great. I was watching It's the Black
Adoptee podcast. I.
Watched Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you were featured there.
Let me get the title right. The Adoption Journey podcast.
There's yes, that one. OK, Yeah.
Yeah, sorry, I'm also mix mixingit up with the meet up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was OK.
But listening to that podcast and just hearing the perspective

(20:33):
because I have, I'm not adopted,I'm not a black person.
So to hear the stories of of that life path, let's say I
remember there was 1 episode where you had made a comment
about on the topic of, you know,opening up about your life where
you're like, dear white people, Like when you made a comment
about how it is true or what we will generally like just kind of

(20:56):
talk about our problems to people and not really keep it to
ourselves. Yeah.
And growing up, it was, I grew up with this.
It's like, no, no, this. That's so funny.
We keep it like don't talk aboutour shit to people, you know,
and, and yeah. And so because it's our
business, right? Like, and I resonated with that
because you, you become this person who like is a kind of

(21:18):
like locked down, right? And, and the stuff that you go
through. No suppression is a huge part of
my life. And I think it kind of goes back
to what we were talking about too, about how much to reveal.
Because as I started being on a healing journey, right, I was so

(21:38):
used to suppressing everything. Like we're talking about 40
years of suppressing everything,all of the things and major
things too, right? So that once I started healing,
I'm like just blurting out all these things like I'm adopted
and I'm blah, blah, blah. And I used to do this and that's
not appropriate either, right? So it's like like if you believe
in, you know, chakras or something like that, it's kind

(22:00):
of like the difference between having an overactive throat
chakra and an under active one, right?
And so I was definitely overactive and I had to learn
like what, you know, like everybody doesn't need to.
I don't need to tell everybody every little thing, right?
It's interesting for you to say that because I think if we can

(22:22):
talk about parents for a minute.All right, how much time do you
got? You're like, you started this,
You know, I don't know. I've been saying, I don't know,
Geo parenting is such an important job.
Yeah, and as a parent, I know this for a fact.

(22:43):
The 1st 10 years I didn't take seriously at all because I was
parenting the way I was parented, which wasn't OK.
And especially with two little girls who needed like nurturing
and caring and I'm like telling them just go be quiet and cry in
your room like I was told to do,that was so inappropriate.

(23:03):
I just think we don't realize how important parenting is and
especially with this like suppression piece, right?
So like, where are your feelingssupposed to go, right?
You're like. I let's just say self
destruction was a big part of my20s.

(23:26):
Yeah, 'cause that's that's what happens when you have no place
like your emotions. We think that we're like pushing
them down or putting them somewhere they're not.
They're just like here with you.Yeah, Yeah.
And. Then you have.
It's gonna overflow. Sorry.
Right. No, no, no.
And so then you have to find somewhere to take care of that.

(23:48):
And a lot of times it's so like my bookshelves.
Yeah. For me, it was sex and liquor
and a lot of it because you think that you're, like, taking
care of it or filling some type of void.
And of course, you're not. You can never fill it like that.
I hate to sound like I'm blamingmy parents but they you know we
do Co create here so. Absolutely.

(24:09):
I agree with you on that topic. Like I, I fill you with the, you
know, the God sized hole, I callit, where it's like you can
never fill, fill it. I have a similar story to you in
the sense of like, you know, what things that happened to me
and how I've dealt with them. Yeah.
And I look back at what I was avoiding was like just sitting

(24:30):
in like facing what was what wasalways like right here, you
know, like, like the dark night of the soul or Yep, you know,
it's like you always you kind ofwant to like you look over the
shoulder and like take a peek, but don't stare for too long.
Do not. But also acknowledging, yes.
And that's what that's I was running from myself.
And yeah, something my mom told me on my 30th birthday, she was

(24:53):
like, you know, if someone had said to me when you were 25 that
you would be the person that youare today, I wouldn't believe
them because, you know, I, I hadprogressed so much because I'd
done so much like leaving. I was like an angry person
because I had all my shit right.Yeah, because you're suppressing
all those things, yeah. And so for you, how has writing

(25:16):
allowed you to move past that? Because I find that, you know,
as creatives, we, we have our, our go to's.
For me, it's like drawing art. That's been my thing.
So for you, how did you find that through writing?
Like how does that work for you?I'm glad you're bringing that up
because I've gotten, I don't want to say Flack, but I've
gotten a lot of like, maybe I'lljust say shit from people who

(25:39):
yeah, I'm trying to. I was trying to think what's the
right word when people hear? It's called that.
It's the graphic content podcast.
You can, you can swear. Yeah, I.
Can say whatever I want. I literally open with fuck.
It's the best cuss word ever. My favorite?
No, like really. So I've gotten a lot of
pushback, but I think people arestarting to to understand this

(26:04):
about like this idea of being able to self their bias, right?
We've gotten into this thing where people think everyone has
to go sit on somebody's couch. Right.
Some people do, you do because you're not going to do the work
on your own. I am a little different.
So writing, once I return to it,I knew I was a writer like

(26:28):
around 10 years old, but it wasn't nurtured and you know,
all of the things, right? So then I come back to it after
I have that rough bottom moment,like almost instantly.
I think one of the questions there too was what was something
that you like to do when you were a child that you don't do
anymore? And for me it was writing.
And so writing helps me to process like what is happening.

(26:52):
Sometimes it can just be journaling.
Like anybody who's read the artist's way, she talks about
these morning pages, right? It seems so silly, like oh wake
up in the morning and write, butit actually right.
I do it. I do it.
I literally journal in the morning.
It's like miraculous because it helps you like dump all the
stuff so that you can get on about your day.

(27:16):
And like, legit, it really is. Right.
So journaling helps and now I know like when I should journal,
when I should stop. If somebody's like pissing me
off, I don't need to cuss them out and meet their energy with
whatever. I just need to go journal about
it and then decide. Now, the results still might be

(27:39):
like, I need to go cuss you out.But first, I write about it,
right? Not even just publishing, just
literally writing has helped me so much.
Yeah. Because it's like getting your
thoughts out of your head. And for me, like, I do a lot of
ruminating. And when I find that I can't get
over something, like I keep going like my husband, I'll be

(28:01):
like, why are you still talking about that thing that happened
last Tuesday? OK, so then I know I need to go,
right? Yeah.
Just helps me to process. For sure, I'm the same I to me
the cuz I don't know like if you're even into like astrology
or anything, but like I. Am I?
OK, I'm what's what are you? What's your?

(28:24):
So I am a Gemini sun, Leo risingand Aquarius moon.
OK, sister, like I'm a Gemini aswell, so when's?
Your birthday. June 17th.
Oh, you're a June Gemini. Oh, we can't.
No infighting, OK. June Geminis are very fun, so I

(28:50):
will leave it at that. Gemini, what else do you know?
All the rest. Yeah, so Leo, Moon and Sag.
Right. Yeah, No, that's why we get
along so well. On the topic like I am, I am
cerebral. Yeah.
Beyond I can't stop thinking about even if it's I'm I know

(29:13):
I'm fine, like I know in my heart.
I so I my thing is being grounded.
I grounding myself is very like it's at the forefront of yes, my
practice on a daily basis to, you know, not be up.
All in the air. We like to fly, We all that air.
That's the air sign. When's your birthday?

(29:34):
May 23rd. It's a good time, honestly.
We're coming up in a couple months.
Yeah, I love being a summer baby.
Yes, me too. Tactically, spring, but mostly
summer. No, it's, I mean it gets warm,
so. Yeah.
It's OK. I'm so excited.
No, that makes so much sense because that is exactly what it
is. It's like we can just stay up
here in the clouds in our heads forever.

(29:58):
So we have to find things to like bring us back down here.
I'm with you on that because when it come when you were
talking about like, you know, self therapy, I agree 100%.
I'm the person, the idea. I've gone to therapists over the
years, like I've tried so many. Yeah.
And I don't know about you, but I usually am like couple
sessions and I'm like, I, I already know this like, yeah.

(30:19):
Like what the fuck are you talking about?
I remember I got into an argument with a therapist.
I've been the only two. No, I didn't right?
I will never forget. And she I'm like explaining to
her how my mother-in-law didn't like come to my graduation.
That's what it was my my graduation to get my PhD.
And I was like, she just sent a card and it's because she's in

(30:41):
this religion. I was like, you know, she could
have just come on graduations onSaturday.
She could have come on Friday, stayed at home, kicked it with
us on Sunday. And she's like, what if she just
could do it in her own way? And I was like, this.
That's what I just said. She could've just.

(31:01):
And I never like that was it? I was like, no, Nope.
Because I don't have time to argue, to pay, to argue with
people. I'm not in any way trying to say
like I'm evolved or whatever, Everyone, you.
Don't have to explain to me. Gee, I get it.
You're like, I'm sitting here like I already know this.
I don't. Why am I paying you to tell me
something I already know and. Especially now when you can

(31:22):
Google shit right? If somebody's like, you know, go
to therapy, whatever. I'm like, I have so many things
that I have set in place myself because, and I don't know if
it's a Gemini thing, but I had another friend of mine on an
episode who will come out and she's we're both Geminis as
well. And she was saying the same
thing. She's like, I'm a self starter.
I yeah, I do. I figure out what I need to do

(31:44):
for myself and when it comes to my mental state because I can't,
I can't I I can do it myself. I I know me best.
Right, 100 percent, 100%. And I do not have time to be
sitting here. It it might be a Gemini thing
too, because we don't have time to just be sitting around while
you try to tell me what I could have figured out 10 minutes ago.

(32:07):
Yeah. And so I.
Feel so sane. I'm glad because I do too.
Yeah, that's funny. But it's true.
I don't know. So at this stage of your life,
what are you doing? What are the things that you put
in place for you to ground yourself and be able to write
and do your work? Yeah, so I do a lot of, not a

(32:31):
lot of yoga, but I do do yoga. I make sure I practice once a
week for at least an hour. Sometimes I do it here, like in
my place. Sometimes I go to a studio cuz
being around people is a different type of energy.
Very. Yeah, sometimes I do it
virtually, but most definitely once a week.

(32:52):
Yoga. I have a whole regiment that I
keep to in the morning. I try not to do anything before
noon because I just need to get like myself together.
And so that is. Like we listen.
When are you? You need to come to
Jacksonville, FL. When are you coming now?
Yeah. I'm now, so I'm going to be in
Florida. I'm going to be in Fort

(33:13):
Lauderdale at the in mid-May. Really.
How far is that? South, yeah, it's like 4 hours.
OK, because. That's near Miami.
Are you going to hit Miami when you're there?
No, I my brother lives down there and my mom has a place and
so I avoid Miami if I can. It's too.
It's too busy. Yeah, you look like that is the
your face is like that is the most disgusting idea ever.

(33:37):
No, no, no, that's not what I mean.
I just because when I go down tome I want.
To you just hang out with your family.
And I want to vibe and chill. Yeah, but I absolutely, 100%
usually I go to Florida in the winter for about a month.
Yeah, so and we I drive down with my partner.
So I would absolutely drive to see you.
Yeah, let me know, Let me know. Yeah, but OK, so we.

(34:00):
OK, we got off task. No, no, that's fine.
That's fine. What were we saying though?
Oh yeah, yeah. About my day, yeah.
So no, I make sure that I exercise every, well, I'll say 3
or 4 * a week. Yeah.
I make sure I have like some type of good breakfast.
I do meditate and it kind of varies.
I got into this, it's called a 321 meditation that puts you in

(34:22):
like in a Theta state and that works.
You know what I'm talking about.Yeah, it's insane.
I meditate, like regularly. Like I'm.
Yeah, I'm with you. So all of those things even
before I start my day and I havefound.
So now of course, it's not like I'm gonna like be like go crazy
if I don't do those things, but I definitely, if I don't do one

(34:45):
of them at least once a day. Yeah, yeah.
So I do all of that before I start my day.
I also have gotten really good about boundary setting.
So it's not just about grounding, but like, I do not
spend a lot of time like talkingon the phone to people.

(35:07):
Yeah. Because, because unless we're
having like I just wrote about this, it'll be out on Monday
too. Unless we're having like a
mutually beneficial conversationor relationship, really, I don't
need to talk to you about whatever you're talking about

(35:27):
for two hours. That's just not happening.
So things like that or like how much time I spend just with
people in general, like I had I'm really good about to spend
like, yeah, how do we have an hour today?
I, I'm with you 100%. Last year, I felt, I don't know,
I felt it was like a transitional year for me in my

(35:49):
career, just in how I, you know,see myself in the world.
Yeah. And one of the things I was
like, I have no qualms saying noto social events, to certain
things since I was like my energy, especially in a post
COVID world. I'm like, I don't actually need
to be around people that much. Like in my earlier, you know,

(36:11):
once again, not to harp on the Gemini thing, but like very
social, we, we feed off of otherpeople's energy.
But I as I'm getting older, I'm like, I don't, I actually I'm
not. I feel like a self, like a
generator to myself. I'm like, if I'm here, I can
self generate my own energy. I don't need to be around people
because it's draining. You know you might want to.
They say that your rising sign is more like who you are.

(36:34):
Yes, I don't know anything aboutit so please educate me.
So I'm I'm recently in friendship with a Sagittarius
and I'm getting to know her still, but that's what she
sounds like. What you just described sounds a
lot like how she is. Have you done human design like
that? I.
Was gonna ask you about. The.

(36:56):
Design. I have done it but but GL is so
confusing. It's long.
And it's a lot. It's a lot.
So I did. I spent some time, like I spent
some time looking at each littlething and then like Googling
what it means. And so it's super accurate, but
it's just so much. It's overwhelming.
It feels like, you know, that meme of I think it's from the

(37:18):
show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where it's the guy
and he's like, it looks he it's a photo and he has this wall of
like pic. You know when people are trying
to like, solve a case? Oh, and it's all those looking
like this. That's how it feels.
That is how human design is. You do not.
No one has time for that. I just need like a have you.

(37:38):
That's why I just pulled up my phone.
Do you? It's called the pattern.
Where's my camera, The app, the pattern?
Yeah, I've heard of it. I haven't.
I don't know, like I don't have it.
Download it. OK.
And do the like subscription forlike 3 months.
OK. Best thing ever.
OK, done. Seriously.

(37:58):
I'm honestly like you said. Well, going into this, you're
like, I don't know what we're gonna talk about.
I'm like I. Feel like obviously it's
astrology, right? My God, that's crazy.
This is lovely, but I do want tobring it back to you.
Yes, yes, yes. You're really involved in a lot
of different organizations, different initiatives.
So can you talk to me a little bit about how the Black adoptees

(38:20):
meet up came to be? Yeah.
So one thing that I learned withwriting this book, ironically,
is that I'm an adoptee. It's not something that I ever
really like talked about or thought about too much.
But what happened was this woman, Tarsha Smith, who is the

(38:43):
host of the Adoption Journey podcast.
She and I met and did a podcast and then she read the book and
she was like, oh, girl, we got to do another one now.
And so in it she's like, you know, it was, it was really cool
how you wove your adoption storyinto the memoir.
And I was like, what, what are you talking about?

(39:06):
And so she was like, yeah, like,you know how you just.
And I was like, oh, I didn't do that on purpose, what I was
trying to do. And with everything that I
write, I want the reader to feellike I felt in the moment.
And So what I was trying to do was, you know, there's like this
piece where you don't find out for a minute within the the

(39:27):
memoir that I am adopted. And almost everybody is like,
that's what, even after all of these things.
And then you find out right now,no, but this is how it was,
right? Like, this is how it's been.
And I'm like, yeah, 'cause that's how I felt.
That's how I felt in the moment was like, what?

(39:49):
And then to. Right.
And then to tell me, like, just to be quiet about it.
And, you know, like, who cares? It's not a big deal.
So anyway, I meet this woman. We hit it off famously.
And she invites me to go do whatever and I, I do that with
her. And so I get like introduced to
the adoptee community. Time passes and really this has

(40:12):
just been a year now with this piece.
We were just sitting around talking like you and I and you
know, somehow we were like, you know, it'd be cool if we like
just met up with other black adoptees because the black
adoptees are so marginalized in the community.
Like when people think adoption kind of like the sex addiction

(40:33):
thing, they think white people adopting, right?
And specifically white people adopting Asians, white people
adopting black people, white people, but not like it's called
same race adoption, right? So I was adopted by black
people. Anyway, very quickly we put
together this meet up. We met in Atlanta last year.

(40:56):
About 25 people showed up. It was an amazing time.
And we decided, oh, maybe we should just do this again.
Yeah. And again and again.
Right. So this year will be in Chicago
in October. I think the website is Black
adoptees, meetup.org, so you canget information there.
But. The plan?

(41:16):
Yeah, thank you. The plan is to like grow every
year and that's exactly what we've been doing.
So like this year we have somebody coming from the UK.
That's wild. Yeah, like people coming.
That's exciting. That's crazy.
So like people coming from all over the country to Chicago, I

(41:37):
think Seattle, California, Jersey, so literally all across
the country and now the UK. How did you organize that?
Like what was the process? And literally just like so you
mean the actual meet up or the OR the?
Organization, now that it's expanding, like, how are people
knowing about it? Yeah, so it literally is through

(41:58):
social media. So like we talked about earlier,
right? It's like the thing we love to
hate, right? But we're all on it.
And doing it now. But like, what do we do without
it? So through social media and also
so 2 separate maybe 3. So because Tarsha has this
podcast, she's in, you know, communication with a lot of

(42:19):
adoptees because they come on me, I'm just not getting to know
people. But even with that, like because
they're getting to know me now, they're like kind of interested
and then we both do our separatethings, which I'll tell you
about the other thing a little bit later.
But I think because we both haveour separate things, this is how

(42:39):
we're like in contact with with other adoptees and we also have
now a social media account, so. That's exciting.
It's always an all from a one off basically.
Really. That's kind of all it takes
sometimes. Just like a quick and then that
spark creates a movement. Yeah, you know, GL like I've

(43:01):
learned so much being here on this Earth and one of the things
is like the spark, cuz you've mentioned that a couple Times
Now. It's like we well, I know for me
in the past, I ignored it a lot,right?
You feel something and you're like, yeah, whatever.
Now I don't do that anymore. If I feel good about something,
then I'm doing it. And if I, if I feel bad about

(43:24):
something now, it takes me a minute, but you know, if I know
I gotta be out of there, then I do it too.
It's so funny you say that cuz that's how this podcasts came to
be. I had been thinking about it for
a few years. I was like, you know, I love
talking to people. Like I genuinely enjoy talking
to people about their life, their path, the things that

(43:44):
motivate them. And I couldn't get out of my
head for about 4-3 or four years.
And then I, as 2025 approached, I was like, you know what?
I'm not gonna live in fear. I'm gonna just go for shit.
I'm gonna just do it. And I have had such an amazing
time producing it, putting it together.
The fact that like you, the factthat you said yes, I was like,

(44:08):
this is crazy. I'm like, and it felt like, it
feels like it's, it's, it's galvanizing.
And you know, in today's world, for as an adult who is who we
are jaded as adults, Let's be real.
We don't have that, that same spark that that's that thing
that children have for an adult.For me as an adult to feel

(44:28):
excitement and joy. I'm like, I'm going for it.
I I Why not right? Yeah, we don't we.
I'm glad you said that too, because we, you know, we're
socialized to believe that only kids can like, be free and
happy. Curious.
Right. And we are also socialized to
believe like, you know, I've started so many things like I

(44:51):
had a not a podcast. I had a blog that was about
menopause and it lasted for about 3 years.
I just ended it, I think at the beginning of this year.
It served its purpose, right? I did like a whole, like, you
know, I hope you got something from this because it's going
down. Yeah.

(45:12):
And that was it. But it's like we think as adults
that we have to like, I'm not trying to have like the
award-winning blog, right? It's OK.
Yeah. And I had fun when I did it.
Right. Like, yeah.
So I think we need to like have more of that.
So going back to, you know, likegoing going inwards and digging

(45:33):
up things to be able to move forward in life, I have realized
this little Geo that has that very much is alive in me needs
to be honored a little bit more than he has been in the last 15
years. And you know what I mean?
And so to me, I'm like, what? What are the things that brought
me joy as a child? Yeah, let's bring that back.

(45:54):
Now that I'm like, you know, in my late 30s, I'm like, let's.
And you can do it responsibly, girl.
Yeah. And now we're in the age of
telephones. I I don't think I could have got
away with it in the same way we did 15 years ago.
You know what I mean? Yeah, I do know what you mean.
What you're saying is totally important.

(46:16):
I think that we forget that I'veread somewhere where like we
think that we're not like the little 6 year old when really
we're all these versions of ourselves and we're carrying all
the versions. And sometimes we got to go back
and be like, it's OK, little 6 year old Gio.
Oh yeah. Have you ever done any like any
Reiki or any like energy work? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that.

(46:37):
You know, tell me about like, not now I'm interviewing you.
Tell me about your experience. What did you think about Reiki?
So I've had a few different experiences, but the one in
particular that made me think ofthis, I lived in Toronto for 10
years. And, you know, I'm from like a
small town. Like I, so I grew up in like,
farm farmland. OK.
Yeah. And so going to the city, I was

(46:58):
like, I'm gonna go to the city, I'm gonna be gay.
I'm gonna live my life, you know, fuck this place.
Whatever, I was 19, right? Like I didn't know any better.
I'm gonna go to the city and be gay as girl needs to be on AT
shirt. And I did, yeah.
And that's when the 20s happened, so you know.
Gosh. OK, go ahead.
So it was, it was whatever. It's made me who I am today.
No regrets. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(47:19):
Cuz I moved back home, you know,just I couldn't.
The city was just too much for me.
That's why my comments about Miami.
I was like, I like the city, butit's I could never do it again.
Right. Yeah.
I went to this yoga studio. I found this one locally.
It was very small. It was like all women.
I felt very safe in this environment.
I feel very safe in women's energy because it's just
nurturing to me. Yeah.

(47:40):
Yeah. And, And so one of the women
there, I I was, she talked that she did Reiki and I was like,
you know, inquisitive. I was like, I'd never really
done this too much before. And she was like, OK, come see
me. And but you know, before for the
first or the couple of days leading up to you coming in, I
want you to think about an emotion that you want to

(48:03):
eradicate, like or not. And for me, it's fear, you know,
fear of success, fear of failure, fear of being seen.
Fear because I got bullied insanely as a child.
Like, it was it's fine. It is.
It's, you know, but but like as a kid, I was bullied daily.
It was not because I was just aneffeminate child, you know, I
was yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All the things, right?

(48:24):
And it wasn't like today where it might be OK a little bit.
Very different. Yeah, this is the 90s, like
early 90s. So.
So I go to her and her name is Carolyn, and she starts counting
me down and like, imagine yourself at a place you feel
serene. Whatever.
And basically, to sum it up, because I know I'm going along,
but no, it's OK. She basically brought me to a
moment in my youth that I had blocked, that I had it, but it I

(48:49):
was reliving it as though it wasreal.
And it was. I was 10 years old.
So I don't know if you guys havescholastics in the States.
It's like a yeah, yeah. OK, yeah, a magazine.
Yes, you could order books through.
School, yeah. I was in grade 4I was 10 years
old and I had ordered this like biography on the Spice Girls
because that was big. I love the Spice Girls as a

(49:11):
child, whatever. And so as the when the orders
came in, the teacher, our teacher was reading out
everyone's orders to the class. And because I had ordered
something for girls, you know, quote, UN quote, the whole class
like laughed at me like I'm it'sand I had forgotten about this,
but I like hid under my desk. I was crying like everyone's
like, you know, it was. It was a very traumatic
experience. For me, that is very traumatic.

(49:33):
Yeah, and but I had blocked it out.
And so at the time I was this almost 10 years ago, I was 28
and she's she had me in my session in my mind, whatever, go
into the classroom and grab myself basically my little
child's self by the hand and then take him out and like sit.
And she had me speak to my younger self and basically see

(49:55):
like, I love you. And you know, in, in my mind, I
was hugging myself. It was one of the most it felt
real, like it was a real moment.And I have never in my life
cried like the release of shit like 28 at the time, 28 years of
shit. I was, I like, I cried so hard I

(50:17):
burst blood vessels in my eyes like it was crazy.
So, you know, she finishes the session.
Whatever. I calm down and she like, you
know, it's like a masseuse, like, OK, like I'm step out and
then come on. Yeah.
So I, I like, I compose myself and I walk out and I open the
curtain and she's like, so how was it?
And I'm like beaming like I'm wow, I feel this weight lifted

(50:39):
off of me. And she was like she.
Released all the things. Girl, it was, it was wild.
And I just felt this. It was like this pivotal moment
where I'm like my 20s were so just like dark for me.
Like I was, you know what I mean?
Like it was just not good internally and it was just such
a it and it didn't fix everything by many means, but it

(51:00):
was, I realized, acknowledge this thing that was in me.
Wow, my Reiki was nothing like that and that's why I haven't
done it again because I was likewhat is this?
It was nothing like that, but. So what was it like for you?
It was literally just like I laid.
I was on the table and the person did whatever and I felt

(51:26):
nothing. They like, I've had that too
though, yeah, maybe I don't knowif there's somebody like
specific to like inner child work or something, I don't know.
Maybe. But I was gonna also say in my
book, that's what I had to do toget over my, to get to the root
of my issues is actually go backto being a baby and hold myself.

(51:48):
Like so everything you just said, but I did it for myself as
a baby, like held myself as a baby, told myself I was OK and
like mothered 'cause there that is a whole thing like mothering
yourself. Yeah.
And how was that experience? No, that like changed that.
Like you said, it changed everything because I was

(52:09):
ignoring the fact that adoption had anything to do with anything
when really it was the root cause.
Like now that I've been in theseadoptee spaces, now I know it's
like the root cause of everything.
Actually, everything stems from like your relationship with your
mother in the womb. Yeah.

(52:29):
Oh, yeah. And I feel like with the way
that we're going as a society, we're at the precipice of
understanding so much about this, the human psyche.
I hope so. But I think the powers that be
are really trying to like, lock that shit down, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was.
I was thinking is like, I feel like this is like the last ditch

(52:53):
effort to hold on to the patriarchy, right?
It really like, seems like it, but it's, it can't be held onto
because it's like we're moving into a whole new thing.
Well, we're in the age of enlightenment.
Like with this is it's facts like Age of Aquarius, like it's
real. But to me, I don't care.
And I feel like based on our conversation, I can say this

(53:15):
freely and, you know, not be looked at sideways, but the
structures that we've been indoctrinated into, they're
crumbling. And it's so great to see.
But this, like this, like you said, the last ditch effort is
yeah, it's like fuck off. Like, yeah.
Off and right, I won't say what I want to say, but yeah, cuz I
want to wish harm to anyone, butbut for sure.

(53:36):
And you're like, yeah, whatever.I know you don't have to say it,
but like, I know what you're, I know what you're thinking.
You know what I'm saying? But that's what I would, I
literally was just thinking this, how I think here in the
States, the reason why we're allowing everything to happen.
Cuz I'm at first I was like, well, maybe we're all just too

(53:57):
busy to give a fuck, right? Cuz we kind of are.
But what are we really busy doing, right?
So then I was thinking, I think that it's just because it has
to, these systems have to, have to be done and we can't fight
it. We just have to let it just kind
of flow and and tumble. Like I read tarot card too and

(54:21):
all I keep thinking is like the tower like it has to all just
burn up in flames and go away and so we can start something
new that makes more sense. 1000%and I feel like even I'm so
happy that we're chatting today.Like this is so special to me.
No, because it's this, these conversations, these, this is

(54:43):
what I'm all about. Like to me it's the the
connections that we make with people over this is fucked.
Like this is crazy. You see this right?
Like. What else can you say?
And to me, I'm, I, I love the fact that two people who live
across the continent, yeah, withcompletely different
backgrounds, different age, yeah, we can come together and

(55:06):
say, like, I see you, you know what I mean?
Like you're that to me is that'sthe shit that I, that's the hope
that I'm like we are not completely fucked.
Yeah, yeah. You know, no, I think the
majority of us, no, Yeah, that we're gonna be OK, But we just
got a ride. Like whatever that saying is,
the only way over is through or something like that.

(55:28):
We just got to go through it. Shaka said it through the fire,
you know. Yep, Yep.
Literally marry that. Literally, that's what we're
doing, Yeah. My mom always says this.
She's like, she speaks like we do and and she says like our
souls, our soul contracts. If you believe in that, like
there's a reason we are here at this time, right now is to,

(55:50):
because we're here to see this, the shift in consciousness on
this planet, right? So that's how I'm trying to look
at it cuz I don't wanna completely identify with what is
on my birth certificate, right? Like I'm more than that.
I feel like we're. Yeah, no, I get it.
We're spiritual beings having a human experience.
Yeah, I'm like, let's not get too attached to this because

(56:13):
it's not that real. Like when we're out of here,
then we're onto the. That's it anyway.
Yeah, Yep. I just keep thinking like you
got, like what you said is something I have been thinking
ever since we've gotten a new president.
I'm like, why the fuck am I here?
Because I am like the biggest social justice, right the

(56:33):
wrongs, give money to the homeless, love everybody who
gives a fuck if you're gay or not.
I don't like I'm like the biggest liberal that you will
ever probably meet. Like I do not care what people
are doing as long as you're not hurting yourself and other.
People 100%. Right.
And I was like, what on earth amI doing here in this time

(56:57):
period? But here I am so.
But you're doing the work like you're and I'm not, I'm not
terrible and but it's true. Like I'm not trying to blow
smoke up your ass, but I'm goingto for a second.
OK, Think about please. I'm like.
OK, I'll. Take it, but genuinely like you

(57:18):
are doing so much with your and the board platform.
Like you know what does that do in these days?
But you're connecting people to a your story to themselves
feeling not so alone. You're connecting others with
others, like people with other people.
You're going beyond just existing as a human, and that
has to you. There's something to be said

(57:38):
about that. You know what I mean?
So many people, they have these platforms and what are they
doing? True selling shit they're
Hawking. Shit.
Always. Constantly.
Cares right and so this like my girl, I don't need to tell you
you don't need a white dude to tell you that you're.
You know what I mean? She's saying it like, tell me
more. No, I do appreciate it, I really
do. Because sometimes I'm like, I

(57:59):
don't know what? Like, you know, it's like
speaking into the abyss sometimes.
But. So I do appreciate that and and
I'm a manifesting generator. Are you 2?
I'm a manifester. I'm I'm an emotional manifester.
That's girl. Yeah, now you have to come to
Florida now. Now I we have to meet A. 100%,

(58:21):
I'm so bad. OK.
Yes, yeah. That's already done.
So, OK, go on. What were you saying we were
going to say? I totally forgot, but I think
the point. Is generator.
Yeah, but I that I am a connector.
That's part of just what I do, my whole thing.
I never, and I get annoyed with people like this.
I never like, how can this serveme?
I'm like, no, how can this like bring people together, provide

(58:46):
community, Hence black adoptees,right?
How can I tell someone somethingthat might help them and help
them feel a little less alone and a little more connected?
Because we all are right. That's why you're here.
You just answered your own question.
That's why you're by. Listen, if we talk long enough

(59:07):
then I'll get my answers. I love it.
Thank you so much. We're nearing the end so I could
talk to you forever, but thank you.
I appreciate you so much. This has been so nice.
I agree this is a great way to spend a Friday.
So I have one last question. Yeah, so I ask each of my

(59:27):
guests. I I like the idea of having a
recurring question every episode.
OK. And so because I'm in branding,
that's my gig and whatever. So if you could look at your
life, whether personal or professional, what would you say
is the most on brand thing you've ever done?
I actually, I hate to be cliche,but I think really writing in

(59:49):
Search of a Salve is, is it? I think that when we talk about
connecting people, I think the book has connected people in
ways that I didn't know that it was going to do is make people
think. About themselves at my my 98.

(01:00:09):
She's 98 now. The person who I named Grandma
Honey in this book, I gave her acopy and she read it and she was
like, oh, you made me rethink mywhole life.
And I'm like, bravo there. My work here is done.
I think so. And also it's about the truth
telling because I don't know whywe feel like we have to lie so

(01:00:32):
much living our lives. I mean, I know inherently,
right? I get it.
But we can we can pull back on the lies.
And so I think this book really,I don't expect for people to
give the level of truth that I did with that that memoir, but I
think if you can be like a step more truthful to yourself 1st

(01:00:58):
and others, then then that wouldbe great.
So I think, I think literally writing that book and publishing
it was the most on brand thing Icould do.
I mean, it's a major thing. Like it's something that has, I
mean, it's connected us. Yeah, that's why we're here
today, right? So that's very special.
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.
No, thank you for asking that question.
That's a good one. Yeah, I don't know when I was

(01:01:21):
putting this thing together and like thinking of the framework
of it, I'm like, I want something like, I don't know,
something at the end that's fun.So I appreciate you it makes.
You think? No, it makes you think about it,
so I like it. If anybody is wanting to connect
with you or find you on your platform or anything like that,
where can they do that? But yeah, everywhere I have so

(01:01:45):
many things. So Instagram, I am at K Garland,
I'm really at K Garland everywhere.
But I have a website, kgarland.com.
I have a sub stack which is KE garlandithink.substack.com.
I have a YouTube channel, it's KE Garland.
You can also, if you are a blackadoptee, follow Black Adoptees

(01:02:08):
Meet Up on Instagram and information about meeting up is
also Black Adoptees meetup.org. And one thing I didn't mention
but I want to say is that I alsoam working with another adoptee,
Anna Linde, and she is a sexologist, but she and I are

(01:02:29):
putting together a workshop about sexual health, so be on
the lookout for that. Is that coming to our senses?
It is coming to our senses. Yeah, how to something about
sexual liberation. So we're the first people we're
starting with are adoptees and you don't have to be a black 1
to participate in this or a woman is for everybody.

(01:02:50):
But our plan is to go demographic by demographic, so
eventually women, eventually menand whoever else, because what
we want is for everybody to be sexually healthy and to stop
using sex like a drug. Yeah.
If only I'd met you 10 years ago.

(01:03:12):
That's. OK.
Better late than never all. Right.
Exactly. Exactly.
Thank you so much. Yes, I agree.
Thank you so much. This has been so nice.
Yeah. Thank you for inviting me, Gia.
I appreciate it. Like I said, I I just wanted to
use this to talk to cool people like honestly then and to just

(01:03:32):
shoot the shit really about our creative paths.
And to me that's something that interests me the most, so I
appreciate it. I.
Think we did that? Yeah, we did the thing.
Yeah. And to anyone who wants to
connect with me, you can reach out to methroughgeographic.com
if you have any design questionsor anything about branding.
And you can find the podcast at Graphic Content Pod on

(01:03:53):
Instagram, TikTok, and on my website as well.
Bye. Do you want to say bye with me?
Oh, bye, bye. I was.
Like is it just his bye?

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