Defining the 'Me' in Me-thos with Danny Papadatos

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
But that's a conscious decision.You have to do this every day.
And so that's why it's written on my chest.
And so that every day I when I get up and I see it in the
mirror, it's like, what is the legacy I'm going to leave
behind? But in that advice, I think I
took it a little cute literally and you know, really ran
everything and and put my like, can I swear on this is are we
swearing? I literally opened with well.

(00:21):
That's what the fuck. OK, that's very good.
Because I was like, I have really like just figured out
like how am I going to put my whole pussy into everything?
And how am I going to, you know,try to do, you know, as much as
possible where I really wish I would have kind of refined it a
little bit and said, you know, how do I do a couple things
really great. But at the same time, you know,
you can look back and be like, oh, I should have refined a few

(00:42):
things. But as, as a third party who's
seen you, I've known you now for7-8 years, I, you know, I look
at you and I'm like, this personis doing everything under the
sun is like you said, putting your whole pussy into it.
And to me that's inspirational because I've kind of been on
this one track of, you know, I do design.
I do a few things here and there, like within that world,

(01:03):
you're like across the board. And to me, that's something that
I look at. I'm like, I should push myself
more to do things outside of my comfort zone.
So, you know, you can say, Oh, you know, like I should have,
but I'm like, get a girl like. Well girl, let me tell you on
the other side, it is exhausting.

(01:41):
Welcome to another episode of Graphic Content, the podcast
where we talk all things who, why, and what the fuck.
For over 10 years, today's guesthas led and partnered with
numerous Pride and two S LGBTQ plus organizations, working with
agencies such as Tourism Saskatoon and Saskatoon Pride.
From corporate to nonprofit, he's helped raise hundreds of

(02:02):
thousands of dollars for Canadian 2SL GB, TQIA Plus
organizations. I fucking said that and
businesses and was awarded the title of Mr. Gay Canada in 2013
as well as the CBC Saskatchewan Future 40 Under 40 winner.

(02:22):
He's a stage 4 cancer survivor who has also had the opportunity
to help 2SL GB TQIA Plus entrepreneurs connect and grow
with their businesses with corporate partners through
diverse procurement across Canada by working with
entrepreneurs and businesses from coast to coast with the
Canadian two as LGBTQIA Plus Chamber of Commerce, CGLCC.

(02:42):
I really should have cleaned this up for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In 2020 he founded In Her Shoes
Productions, Toronto's all new queer owned television
production and creative collective.
He's also worked in many facets of production and works as a
creative and story producer and storyteller.
Welcome to Graphic Content, Danny Papadatos.
Oh my God, that was a lot. Thank you.

(03:06):
As a mouthful. I mean, I really need like I, I
feel like I really need to go back and clean that up and I
haven't touched that in a while for.
Sure. No, but honestly I I love it.
That's the longest intro that I've given to date.
But. But listen, it makes sense for
who you are. You're a storyteller and is a
full 3 60 of where where you've come from and where you are
today. I feel like it's also like I'm

(03:28):
like, I'm really, I've been moreof a, a cat of nine lives or you
know, or Jack of all trips. Like I feel like it's, it's,
it's interesting. It's been a really wonderful
journey, but I have had a lot ofdifferent gigs, which is really,
it's wild now that when you whenyou hear somebody say it out
loud, you don't necessarily process the chapters in which
are part of the great book that you create, right?

(03:49):
But sometimes we need that. You almost need it to be said
back to you, to take a minute tobe like, you know what?
I've I've fucking done the thing.
You know, I've done all of thesethings.
There's just been so many chapters.
You never really, when you're init, you don't really think about
some of those memories and thosemoments anymore.
Like it's really hard to even like when you talk about Mr.
Gate Canada or whatever, like, you know, I have tattoos on my

(04:10):
body that remind me of my cancer.
And, you know, my hair reminds me of my cancer.
I bet that that was part of my life, but it really just feels
so far removed from a life that I've now built for myself and
even Mr. Gay Canada, being in the middle of Europe in
swimsuits with men from all overand doing photo shoots and

(04:31):
whatever. It was like the wild as a guy
that used to be 240 some 50 somepounds and very self-conscious
and whatever to be there and allthat stuff.
It's just it's wild to think of your life when you look at it in
these different interesting chapters, I guess.
I think it's amazing because I to me, the idea of being in the

(04:53):
same, you know, vocation for 5040 years, I'm like, I could
never, I could never do it. Although, you know, in my world
I've been doing it now for 15 plus years.
But at the same time, there's somuch variety in what I do.
But for you, you've really worn so many different hats.
Why? Like where did that come from?

(05:14):
I think there's a lot of different things.
I think that there is the opportunity to find and build
community, you know, like if youwant to get real real about it.
I mean, I come from a broken home.
My parents are are separated or were divorced at a young age and
my family was, I wasn't very close with my family.

(05:35):
I was the youngest of five kids,six years between me and my next
eldest sibling. And so I was left alone a lot.
And so I think as a kid, the idea of being able to find
community in something and buildcommunity in something was
always very enticing for me. And I think after cancer, you
know, like I went, I had stage 4Hodgkin's lymphoma.

(05:57):
It was in my neck, my chest, my arms, my back, my bones.
I was diagnosed at the age of 21after being in the hospital for
chronic back pain and nobody in being able to figure it out.
And then all of a sudden my lifechanged.
I was all of a sudden, you know,after they diagnosed it, I was
in the, I was in the hospital the next week talking about, you
know, sperm donation and what that would look like because

(06:19):
they didn't know how long it, etcetera, etcetera.
And, and so at the age of 21, you know, I, I really kind of
had to figure out what that meant.
And so my family, you know, it kind of really was nice was, you
know, growing up Greek Orthodox and queer, I was kind of shunned
from my family when I came out, you know, they didn't really, it

(06:40):
was a, it was a really hard coming out experience.
My family didn't really understand it.
They didn't really love it. They didn't all of that fun
stuff that came along with that.And, you know, there was a point
where I was, you know, I I'd moved out on my own and, and had
to figure out my own own way fora while and all that.
And it wasn't until I think cancer actually, that brought me

(07:02):
back to my family, you know, kind of it brought us all kind
of together and, you know, realizing that that things were
Better Together than apart. And so, you know, cancer,
everything happens for a reason and all that stuff.
But, but I do think that, that this once cancer hit then and I
came through it on the other side, there was this idea of I,

(07:25):
I, you know, take every, do everything.
You know, I have a, a tattoo across my chest that says life
is waiting. And it is the, it's a quote from
a woman that was sitting next tome through my last chemo
session. And you know, I just remember
the day that I I went to her andI said, Hey, we were, we were
sitting in the chairs and I saidI was using cancer almost as a

(07:48):
crotch to not have to figure outwhat I was going to have to do
next because I couldn't figure out who I was anymore and what I
wanted. And she said, well, Danny, life
is waiting for you, but you haveto get up every day and decide
the person you want to be or thethe legacy that you want to
leave behind. But that's a conscious decision.
You have to do this every day. And so that's why it's written

(08:11):
on my chest. And so that every day I when I
get up and I see it in the mirror, it's like, what is the
legacy I'm going to leave behind?
But in that advice, I think I took it a little cute,
literally. And you know, really ran at
everything and and put my I like, can I swear on this is are
we swearing? I literally opened with what?
That's what the fuck. OK, that's very good because I
was like, I have really like just figured out like how am I

(08:32):
going to put my whole into everything and how am I going to
try to do as much as possible where I really wish I would have
kind of refined it a little bit and said how do I do a couple
things really great. But I mean, what do you do?
I mean, at the same time, I've lived a really wonderful life
that I'm really, really proud ofand I've got to do some really

(08:55):
cool shit. Listen, we have our own
perceptions of ourselves and ourpaths and our trajectories.
But at the same time, you know, you can look back and be like,
oh, I should have refined a few things.
But as, as a third party who's seen you, I've known you now for
7-8 years. I you know, I look at you and
I'm like this person is doing everything under the sun is like
you said, putting your whole pussy into it.

(09:16):
And to me that's inspirational because I've kind of been on
this one track of, you know, I do design.
I do a few things here and there, like within that world,
but I don't have like a huge I'mnot like diverse in all of the
things that Ioffer the services,the things that I've I've been
able to work on or lend my talents to, quote UN quote.
You're like across the board. And to me, that's something that

(09:36):
I look at. I'm like, I should push myself
more to do things outside of my comfort zone.
So, you know, you can say, well,you know, like I should have,
but I'm like, get a girl like. Well, girl, let me tell you on
the other side, it's exhausting.I mean, I but it is a lot of
fun. Yes.
Ever since I was a kid, you know, I had a bit of delusion

(09:58):
and I think that it takes, you have to, I think it takes
delusion, you know, especially as an entrepreneur and a
freelancer, you know, I didn't do great in school.
I was, I, you know, I was socialkid in high school who, you
know, I was on the SRC every year finding ways to go and plan
pep rallies, like instead of going to class, like, And so,

(10:21):
but because I was a creative, I always knew that, you know, I
was always in the theater. I was always doing stuff that
had me connecting with people and doing something great and
entertaining and bringing peopletogether.
And like, even as a like a homebody, like I love to
entertain, I love to cook, I love to do those things.
It's just there's something about, you know, bringing people

(10:43):
together and, and I think it what's been interesting is that
like, once I got into my lane that I finally have been in, now
I'm kind of where I am now. It's interesting to look back
and see how really all of the pieces of my life have been have
have kind of got me here. And while it wasn't like

(11:07):
necessarily the most conventional way and through,
you know, certain trainings and doing ba ba, ba ba ba, you know,
I'm really, you know, being ableto translate and transfer skill
and like build this tool kit andand actually then turn around
and use it and go for it and usethat delusion at the same time

(11:29):
has been able to, you know, really kind of give me an
opportunity to grow and shine. And so that's where I think, I
think that's I'm so grateful forwhile while looking back on
these different chapters have been, it's like, sometimes it's
like, OK, I can't believe I evendid that, but it like it.
I am just so grateful that I didall of those things, every

(11:50):
single one of them, from the themistakes to whatever, because
like, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm so excited to be where I am
in this, in this lane right now.So on the topic of looking back,
I do want to go back a little bit and I would love for you to
talk to me a little bit about the significance of drag in your
life and like where that oh. My God, Oh my God, I mean like

(12:11):
like way going way back, like, you know, queer as folk,
obviously being the you know, the little Greek boy, the little
Greek boy with his finger on thebutton while his family was
sleeping waiting for them like hugging case they didn't come
downstairs. All of that stuff, you know,
turn. It off real quick, yeah.
Turn it off real quick, change the channel, you know, and
hopefully it's not the good partor else you'll have to come back

(12:32):
to the second viewing of it or whatever.
Yeah, but I think after that, I think I was working retail in
high school. I that was the first time I'd
started meeting gay people in real life.
And I met a a great friend, their name was Mitch or Roxy

(12:52):
with their drag name. And and Roxy decided to help put
me into drag so I could get intothe bars underage for my first
time because they would never IDthe drag Queens.
I don't know if I should be saying this out loud.
Statue of limitations. Yeah, that's fair.
We're gone, girl. I don't even think they own the
bar anymore. But Long story short, I was

(13:13):
already a performer. I was already in drama class.
I was already doing this Greek dancing.
I was doing all those things andlike became this part of me that
also helped kind of build this confidence and fuel this
confidence in me. And so I did drag, I think for
over 10 years. I ended up after I'd finished
cancer, I remember I was performing.

(13:35):
I even had the tube still in my chest for my 4 that I like put
into inside my my really. Nothing stopping you.
Nothing long that we were raising money for charity, you
know, like I, when I was Empress, we raised over $30,000
for queer charities in Saskatchewan.
And so, you know, like those arethe necessary works anyway.
But that's a long, that's another thing.

(13:56):
But drag has always been part ofmy life.
I, I did that for 10 plus years.I was Empress at the age of 21,
raising funds for the entire, for, for Saskatchewan and kind
of representing Saskatchewan. I travelled across, you know,
Canada and a little bit of the world.
But I actually, you know, when Imoved to Toronto, it's funny
enough, I actually brought everything with me.

(14:17):
I, I didn't think I was going todo it anymore.
I kind of lost a relationship with, with drag because I did,
you know, find that I couldn't do drag without doing drugs.
And so it really had put me intothis party scene that I really
couldn't get out of without relying on one or the other,
right? And so I kind of had to put her
away for a bit. But I did bring her to Toronto.

(14:39):
I did. I was like, you know what,
bitch, she's going to go out. She's going to put her cha cha
heels on. And maybe we'll see if we figure
it out. But when I moved to Toronto, one
of my first apartments here accidentally attached my storage
locker to another unit in the building.
And then when somebody went to go move into that unit, they

(15:00):
threw out everything that was inthe storage locker.
So mine and my roommate stuff all got thrown into the garbage.
So like all of my custom dresses, my wigs, my shoes, my
boobs, my everything, like everything was gone.
Like every cuz I had a lot, I had some personal designers at
home that were like also there were also some of my best

(15:21):
friends that have made me amazing things that I had for
throughout the years, but it wasall gone.
And so, and that was like a, that was a whole piece that I
was like, well, I can't, I'm notgonna go and do this all over
again. Yeah, like, like from scratch.
I'm not just the idea of starting from scratch wasn't
exciting. There was already, you know,

(15:43):
like in Toronto drag Queens or like Starbucks, you can throw a
nickel and you're gonna hit one,you know, like it's just like, I
don't, I didn't, I'm not a youngpup anymore.
So for me, like I didn't know ifI could really kind of make a go
of doing it all over again. And so now it's just kind of
this this thing that I, I love so much still, you know, I got a

(16:04):
great set of boobs in the closetstill.
I got a couple wigs. I got a couple of shoes.
There are a couple still pieces like you can't, you know, you
can take Simone out of her out of the out of the park.
We get to parking at Simone, I guess.
And now to get to work on Drag Race and like kind of have this
full circle moment where it helps me also relate to my
Queens in my chair and know whatthose different moments are like

(16:26):
from, you know, the the awkward confrontations that you have
with people at the bar or situations in public or even
just the physicality of put yourDick behind your back.
But you know, like all of those things create a really great and
a hopefully a safe space for forthem to feel like it's OK to
tell me to tell me anything. Question, do you keep saying

(16:48):
she? Who is she?
What's her name? So she started out with a sour
puss, She was. A shooter girl, she was
vivacious. I actually, it's funny because I
because red was her color because I found the the main
reason I really started drag wasbecause my mom had a bunch of

(17:09):
stuff in a garage and she'd asked me to go do get everything
ready for a garage sale. It's like sore through stuff.
And so I'm like digging through the garage at my mom's house and
there's a sealed up armoire that's just sealed up with duct
tape. And I crack it open and it's
just dresses still with the tagson in like dry cleaner bags.

(17:30):
And they're like Ian Mom, right?She's never worn.
She's never worn right and like,but these and like, you also
know, typical like these are like early 90s, late 80s
dresses. So they are sequin, they are
beaded, they are fringed, they are gorgeous, right?
And so I put the dress I like. There was one dress, there was a

(17:53):
red sequin beaded fringe dress and I put it on.
I was like, well, you can't tellme I'm not Tina Turner, I'm
stupid. That's it.
And I went and that was the first number I did was, was Tina
Turner. It was so good.
Proud Mary, always fun of my. Favorite.
I loved it. But yeah, so it started out as a
sour puss, but then when she became the lady and then went

(18:16):
for Empress, I became Simone Duvall.
Simone Duvall? Yes.
I love YouTube. You can find her online.
Yeah. I will be looking that up.
You're welcome. You're welcome.
Even in the name, though, see, going back to what you were
talking about, you know, wearingdifferent hats, having different
identities, you went from sour Puss to Lady Duvall or.

(18:36):
Simone Duvall, Yeah. Simone Duvall.
Yeah. So like those are opposite ends
of the spectrum, right. So we're we're seeing.
She's about growth. She's about growth this.
Shift and so you go from drag toMr. Gay Canada, which is similar
where you go from drag in like this feminine form to, you know,
a male drag. Hyper masculine drag.

(18:56):
Yeah, 100% my drag king. Look, Simon, we'll call him
Simon. Yeah, so.
When did that happen? So after I was Empress and I
decided to kind of let go of because, you know, I mean, as
other drag Queens will know, or anybody in kind of like a drag
queen system, like the court system and things like that.

(19:17):
You know, there are there are things, sometimes they're not
inviting spaces, you know, sometimes those queers can be
awfully mean to each other. And so, you know, I just decided
to take some time for me and that's when I really decided to
focus on my health. You know, I lost a bunch of
weight and was working towards agoal and whatever.

(19:37):
And but but Mr. Gate candidate did that.
I ran. I ran in a local competition as
a the local competition is kind of like a joke.
I didn't think I was going to get far.
I was like this little pudgy kidfrom the Saskatoon whatever.
And then and then I won the local 1.
Then they sent me to nationals. I was like, OK, we'll go there.
I was up against, you know, likepersonal trainers and all of

(19:58):
this shit. And I was like, OK, I don't
know. And then I ended up winning
nationals. They sent me to worlds.
And there I was kind of fighting, you know, I was
battling against Brazilian cage fighters and like, you know, 30.
There was 30 some other because it was wild.
We were shooting guns and going through police Academy training
and all of this different stuff.But the whole process of just

(20:18):
kind of becoming Mr. Gay Canada actually was a really
interesting experience, kind of finding myself again after drag,
finding Danny again, finding that hypermasculine side of
myself, of, you know, why I lovebeing gay, of why I love men and
all, you know, finding those pieces of it.
Yeah. I mean, let me tell you, there

(20:39):
is nothing better than travelling around the world
wearing a sash that says Mr. GayCanada, because every homosexual
that wants I wants to know aboutand I love telling them so.
So I mean, I mean, that was likefor me, that was kind of, it was
a really, that was a really big turning point here.
Was it really? I found a lot of myself.

(21:01):
I, I got, I, I started feeling like for the first time since
cancer, I started feeling like myself and my body again, like
my, like I was finally healing all of those things.
That was a journey. It was a really cool opportunity
to do Mr. Gay Canada isn't interesting.
It was more than a beauty pageant.

(21:21):
I thought it wasn't, but it was really more than a beauty
pageant. There's still people that I
talked to that were in my year from around the world that we
check in. It led me to things like getting
to, you know, March and pride parades that had neo Nazis
spitting on us and in Prague andall of those different things
where you, you. It really got me interested in

(21:43):
global, global community from a,from an LGBTQIFS standpoint into
spirit standpoint of like globalactivism and how similar our
stories are no matter where we are.
And so that really kind of was starting the precipice of the,
the, the, my, my activism journey.

(22:04):
When I came back from Mr. gay Canada, the entire pride board
of Saskatoon decided that they were going to leave and there
was nobody else that will wantedto take it over.
And so as I was wrapping up being Mr. gay Canada, I got a
call from Mr. from Saskatoon Pride festival saying you're the
only person we think that can dothis.
Would you be interested in in taking this on?

(22:27):
And so I made a couple calls to people I knew that were great at
different roles. I knew somebody that was great
at socials, I knew somebody thatwas great at events.
I knew somebody that was great in finance, I knew somebody that
would be great as the secretary,etc.
So I just built this little armyand then we ended up taking
Saskatoon Pride over as soon as I was done, Mr. Gay Canada, and

(22:48):
then I took that on for the Pride festival there for about
four years. It's almost like you're going
from drag into Mr. Gay Canada. It's you're like in the
community, you're like living, breathing it.
You're it's your reality. And then from that experience,
you're taking that and now you're like, OK, now how do I
take my experience through building community?
Because you're doing that and then now flip it and give it

(23:10):
back. Since, you know, community I did
find gave me so much, you know, my, my family and I have a, a
very interesting relationship and I, I would say not great.
And so there was a lot of peoplein the community that became a
second family for me, that became a, a safe space for me

(23:32):
to, you know, to find myself andto be my authentic self and find
the things I liked about myself.I think we all have a, a, a duty
to, to kind of gate forward wherever we can.
And so that's really kind of been my motto is how do I, you
know, just make this world better for the next person in
or, or make this a little easierfor the next person.

(23:54):
I think too many times we get caught up in, well, I had to go
through that, so why shouldn't you, right?
Instead of like, how do I, well,I went through that.
So I really hope you don't have to.
And I think we don't we, we, we've lost a lot of empathy
along the way. And I think that there's so much
good that can be done by us justchoosing to, to make it easier

(24:18):
for others without it impacting you, without it being easier for
you, You know, you, you know, that that pain isn't going to go
away for you, but in, in the release of giving it, making it
better for somebody else, That'shopefully the release that
you'll get right. And, and so that's how I've
tried, really tried to live my life is, you know, in everything
I do, you know, find a way to kind of take it back and give it

(24:41):
back and, or, or find a way to, you know, interconnect.
And, and I think that's one of the greatest attributes and
maybe also one of the greatest weaknesses is that sometimes
it's that to a fault also. But that's good.
I like the way you worded that because I've heard both of those
opinions or thoughts around fromlike people have had more life

(25:02):
experience than myself who say like the younger generation,
like a it's the first one is I love that, you know, you guys
aren't having to go through a lot of the things that we did.
But then also on on the other side, I've heard from a lot of
people saying you guys don't even know which we don't like.
Let's be real, we don't, we havenot experienced that growing up
in the 90s and 2000s. Like I'm not going through what

(25:23):
someone in the 80s did or the 70s.
I understand both sides. I, I get it.
But I'm also like, don't we wantto progress like we are
progressing? Is it not?
Right, well, but are we right? And I, I know that's the other.
That's the other question is like, you know, no different
than how anybody that's not a boomer, you know, sits it sits
there and thinks, you know, likewhy?

(25:43):
You know, like we're just kind of like, all right, Boomer went
OK, Boomer, get out. Right, because what that's what
are the boomers saying? Oh, well, like you didn't get
it. You don't have it so bad.
We had it so bad. So like, why do we not think
that mentality? Why do we think that that
mentality is OK when we're talking about things that
actually cause pain and trauma and separation and segregation?

(26:05):
Like it's like this, we're afraid to acknowledge the things
that we've been through because we, we don't like, we don't want
to take on what other people aregoing through.
Then just call it that, right? Like it's like, you know, we
used to be global citizens. We used to really feel like, you
know, that we could really look after one another, But it's,

(26:26):
it's, it's just feeling more andmore like lip service these days
because to be fair and, and, anddevil's advocate, you know,
people are too busy. People are too busy to take on
more than what is in their immediate bubble, bubble or
periphery, because they are working so hard to live with,
you know, everything that's happening.
You know, people are taking sidehustles.
They only have time for so many people in their life because

(26:50):
there is only physical time thatthey can spread thin while also
being able to take care of themselves.
There it that doesn't mean necessarily that your mentality
has to be, you know, unapologetic or unapathy or or
or lacking empathy. You know, there has there has to
be a balance of being able to say and find opportunities where

(27:10):
you can to be an activist or to be an advocate.
You know, I'm not in pride movements anymore, but I know
that I'm still in everywhere I can finding ways to be an
activist, whether it's being when I'm doing casting for a
show like family feud and, you know, putting on families like
we had the first ever throuple in Canada that we searched for

(27:33):
and things like that, you know, finding ways to tell our stories
or to have be visible and, and, and give us opportunity wherever
I can. That's my goal, right?
And so I can I don't have to be marching in the parade now to do
that. I can now do it in my work and
with what I do and with what I love.
And so that's what I really challenge people to do.

(27:54):
I guess going forward is how do I take the things that I already
love to do, but find a way to layer in a form of advocacy or
activism within my business stream, within my line, within
my community, within my family and network that I can all
easily just continue to put out there in the world.
I love it. You're you're spreading joy
wherever you go and connection. Just genuinely though, like

(28:18):
honestly when we first met, we met I think at the conference at
the summit, which we're filming this in June and the we're,
they're doing another one next week, which I'll see you there.
I can't wait to see you next week.
I don't. I don't this will come out much
later in the summer, but and I remember meeting you for the
first time and you you just havethis and I'm not you know, I say
this every guest a lot of times,like I'm not trying to blow

(28:39):
smoke, but I'm gonna blow smoke for a minute.
Yes, this like energy, like it'sso you just I don't even know
how to describe it. You're just somebody that like
people want to get to know. It doesn't surprise me that so
many people are reaching out to you to work with you, to be in
connection with you. You moved to Toronto from the
Prairies. You know, you're establishing
yourself here. And how did you get involved
with the CGLCC? Like where did that come into

(29:01):
the timeline? CGLCC, It's funny, when I was
Mr. Gay Canada, cuz the CEO of CGLCC, Gerald Sherman, he used
to run Travelgate Canada, which was kind of a clear tourism
agency. And while I was Mr. Gate Canada,
I was sponsored by Tourism Saskatoon.

(29:22):
When I was Travel Gate Canada, Tourism Saskatoon was Mr. Gate
Canada and they got me an opportunity through Travel Gate
Canada to be one of their keynote speakers at one of their
conferences. And so I actually came out to
Niagara and I was a keynote speaker at the Travel Gate
Canada conference. That's where I met Darryl.
So the reason I moved to Torontowas tried.
Toronto offered me a job, so I came out here to work with them

(29:45):
in the year that Olivia Nuema took over in a community
engagement role and kind of likesupport them in marketing
communications and things like that.
Because I had so much experiencein building Saskatoon because
when I started Saskatoon Fried being about 300 people that
would attend. And then by the time we finished
and there was like 4 events. And then by the time I finished
in our last year, we had over 20,000 in attendance.

(30:08):
We had multi year partnerships. We had all of these things.
And so they approached me to say, hey, listen, and we know
you're leaving Saskatoon Pride. We have an opportunity for you
to come over here to Toronto. And I was also going through a
divorce. So I was like perfect, let me
get out. So you know, this is the
greatest, the best time ever. I'm gonna pack up my little dog
and hit the road. I mean, it was really saved me

(30:31):
actually. And, and so I, I, I kind of
after I, I wrapped those Saskatoon pride came over here
in Toronto pride and through them, my engagements with
Toronto pride, I ran into Daryl and things like that.
And they, they wanted me to comeover and work on their program,
which is all about supplier diversity, which I'd never heard
about. Like I'm the one thing you'll
know about me is I might not be trained in everything, but I do

(30:52):
have a bit of a weird like beautiful mind, Rain Man memory
and, and, and the way that I cansee kind of the clock pieces
always. And so that's just always how my
brain has worked. I can look at the thing and see
how logistically all kind of whatever that's been kind of
really my bread and butter of how I've been able to pivot and

(31:13):
be able to take on new challenges and do different
careers. Because, you know, Daryl, you
know, pitched me this thing about, Hey, come on, find
people, find queer businesses that are 51% owned and this is
what they do and whatever, teachpeople a capability statements
and how to do all that stuff. I'd never done any of that
before in my life, but I knew that I knew how to communicate

(31:34):
with people. I knew that I could, I could
always find a way to find commonground with people.
I understand business and business sales growth
strategies, things like that, because I had a background a
little bit of banking in me as well.
So that's how I kind of started with CGL CC was this idea of
finding queer entrepreneurs. And I did that with them for a
couple years. And I think we like I, we, we

(31:57):
found a ton in my time there. I think we increased the
membership there while I was there by about, you know, I want
to say like 150 to 200% in termsof certified suppliers that we
found in my time there. I was working for a non profit
that supported small businesses and then we hit a pandemic.
And so, and that was the time where I, you know, there was no

(32:18):
funding, there was no money coming in, There's no all of
that stuff. So people have to to go in those
moments. And so I was one of the cutbacks
during during COVID, but that was actually kind of the moment
that really changed my career. So.
Yeah. So would you say that's like a
what the fuck moment in your career?
I mean, I've got a couple what the fuck moments in my career.

(32:38):
I think that was kind of like, what the fuck do I do?
I think because there were that that was the the biggest part
for me was I was still new to the city.
I felt like I didn't really feellike I had connection in the
city enough to be able to just kind of go and find work.
This is a city being in Toronto is a city that is there's a lot

(32:58):
of people doing a lot of jobs and even knowing kind of
pathways into careers. Or to start with, like as
somebody who's not really trained in things, who doesn't
have, you know, the thing on theresume that's got like the, the
schooling or anything like that and barely got their grade 12, I
started to get a little nervous as to like, what would life in

(33:20):
Toronto look like for me? You know, like, I know, I know
what I'm capable of, but the amount of effort it takes to
have people see it is exhausting.
And it's, and you don't also know who's looking and when
they're looking. And so there was a little bit of
like a hiatus time where I was, I went back to serving a bit.
And then I was like, oh, we're creating a 30 something year old
running around concrete floors. That doesn't last long.

(33:43):
But there was, you know, that weird transition part of what do
I do? And I think that's where it all
hit me because it was also the world was like falling apart,
right? Like everyone was like we were,
we were in dystopia Toronto, youknow, like a paper bag in the
wind was probably the most action you saw in the streets.
And, and here I am trying to also figure out where I go as a

(34:04):
business or as a person. And so that was really the
precipice of what started in hershoes was this coming from a
chamber where I'd heard such impactful stories from queer
businesses, not only about things that were happening to
them, but how they started. And, you know, there was, I
remember there was one business in particular that really made

(34:24):
my brain turn as a storyteller that I could actually see their
business plan. But actually, as a movie, there
was a business out of Quebec, Christine Loren, and she made
adaptable clothing for folks that couldn't necessarily, you
know, wash themselves or go to the washroom and things.
And I remember her telling me the story of when she was going

(34:48):
through the AIDS epidemic because she used to bathe, help
bathe, give men, you know, soap baths that were dying of AIDS.
And and she would tell me the stories of these men and how it
would happen. And to me, I was like, that's so
far removed from, you know, a business, you know, a Business
Innovation idea that I was like that story, those those types of

(35:09):
stories need to be told. And so, you know, with no
options other than to sit with myself and to do some writing
and to, you know, with the worldnot closing down, I also saw an
opportunity because TV and film was considered essential work at
that time. Yes.
And there was there was no there.

(35:30):
And that was the only people that can.
I was like, I'm not going to work in a grocery store.
That's not where I can do it. This is happening.
I've got all these ideas. So I sat down and I wrote a
bunch of concepts. I wrote a bunch of different
concepts that I had in my brain of different shows.
And, and a couple of them actually got signed on by
production company. I just started and then I
started sending them out. I started looking at production

(35:51):
companies and being like, who's in Toronto?
Who would maybe want to see thisidea and, and, and who's talking
to friends who's got connections?
And then I ended up getting a couple of them picked up for
potential development. And so that was really what then
told me I was like, OK, but like, if I sell this, if
something does happen, what am Igonna do on that set?

(36:12):
Because they can just buy this idea and then say bye to me.
And then I never get to see thatidea to the end.
So if I actually want to see theidea and if I want to be present
in the room, I'm going to need the skills for for them to
justify hiring me to be on that set, right.
And so that's what started this,what I call my paid internship

(36:33):
in television, which was, you know, I started as an LPA, you
know, moving tents in the rain, overnight sets, you know,
getting to set at midnight, leaving at 8:00 in the morning,
doing fire watches. You know, I did all of those
things. You know, my car getting stuck
in the middle of nowhere, coyotes howling around me, You

(36:56):
know, I did all of that shit. It was wild.
I just, you know. I'm gonna jump in for a SEC.
I literally you saying coyotes makes me know you're from the
prairies. Having lived in Edmonton for a
year, I I'm like, oh, that's there.
You know, you know, there it is.You got it, You got it.
But yeah, we were. Yeah.

(37:17):
So like, I, so I, I, I figured that was kind of the way for me
to at least get work, get money coming in and for me to start
seeing the thing. Yeah.
But you are you obviously, you know me.
I'm, I'm an overachiever. And for me, I can't sit still.
And especially when I'm like, OK, like I can't this, you know,

(37:38):
I used to run festivals. I know, I understand logistics.
I understand how things all haveto kind of come together to
happen. How do I take that transferable
skill into TV and film to be like, OK, well, like I can
organize, you know, I can obviously organize your lunches.
I can get your paperwork done. It's no different, right?
Like it's, it's the same skill, just in it just doing a

(37:59):
different thing. And everything is online.
So why can't, you know, I can teach myself what I don't know?
And so in every job I started totake, I just started to show,
oh, yeah, like, I'm happy to take on lunch orders today if
you want. I'm happy to do, you know, you
know, I ended up being a COVID officer for a while, right?
That means I meet everybody. I get to interact with every

(38:20):
single person on crew because they need to get their
temperature checked. And so that means that puts me
in front of directors, that putsme in front of executive
producers. And Oh, don't mind me.
Oh, I got that favorite thing that you liked.
Oh, don't worry, you know, and so, you know, bringing my
easygoing, but no, I'm not easygoing.
My open, attentive personality in those instances became

(38:43):
appreciated and and I was able to slowly start showing people
that I had these other layers tomy my skill set.
Because I think that's probably the biggest what the fuck moment
is people have this blockage of seeing you anything other than
what is in front of them or whatis on paper.

(39:03):
And that to me is like the wildest part of it all.
Like because there's it's, it comes out in so many different
ways, whether it's like, you know, people treating you one
way because they think you're a certain job role and they don't
necessarily like, you know, outside of that really give a
shit about anything else. And so you're only getting

(39:25):
treated. It's like, oh, well, you're APA.
It's like, no, I'm actually likea 35 year old man that's got
like run businesses. It's like, but like you don't
care, right? But like that, that's cool.
But there is just this general of like, you know, the amount of
times I either work on a set andand they kind of keep you in one
lane and they don't think about you for other things.
And it's like, no, I can do all those things.

(39:47):
Plus I already know the thing you're working on.
So like you're gonna save time and money onboarding somebody
and teaching somebody everythingoff from the ground up.
So why are you not just kind of investing in the people that
you're already bringing into theteam?
And so there's been a couple of those moments where I'm just
like. I wish we would also take time
to actually get to know us, get to know people we're working

(40:09):
with a little bit more, because I think we'll all save a little
bit of time and stress in the process and how we can actually
work to utilize skill sets and things like that.
The amount of overqualified people that I've met in lower
roles in a lot of sets on a lot of productions.
And for the most part, it's justbecause a lot of people never
ask the question of what else they were able to do or what

(40:30):
they're capable of doing, what they have training in and and
they're just hired for the one thing that that they need.
No, I agree with you. I and I think we live in a world
where people are so tunnel vision that as you know,
entrepreneurs, as people who arefreelancing, we have to, when
you're saying this is you have to take a step to go out of your

(40:51):
way to show people, no, I'm morethan this.
I'm more than this thing becausepeople are just going to skip
over it. Like, you know, like you said
before, people are so busy and they're, our minds are so filled
with productivity. We have to work, we have to
complete blah, blah, blah, move forward.
And so people don't even take the minute to actually like
connect and say like, Oh, hey, like, like, I remember I worked
as a bartender for a few years because, you know, like early,

(41:14):
early stages of geographic, I was not making any money.
Like I need to supplement. So I was bartending on the side
and people just, you know, a people.
This is like, I'm not trying to sound any type of way, but
people being like, oh, like, So what are you studying in school?
And I'm like, I'm 30. Like I'm not in school.
I actually have AI, have a like my business, but this is like a
side job and people would instantly look at me

(41:37):
differently. Oh, you have a business.
Oh, you're a designer. Oh, you have these other things
that you do outside. I'm like, yeah, I don't live at
the bar like. You know what I mean?
I don't. And so it was.
It's just so interesting to see the shift in people's eyes and
how they would perceive me. And you know it's.
Wild 100% it's like that that tome, maybe that's the wide eyed,

(41:58):
you know, Prairie boy in me of like genuinely arriving at a
conversation, authentically wanting to connect and find out
about you and building my perception of you based on that.
I don't know if yeah, like I don't know if that's like
Prairie optimism, but like to me, that's how you form
connection, right? That's how you form authentic
connection with people. Is, is genuinely letting people

(42:20):
arrive as a blank slate and, and, and they can, and they can
build themselves up or tear themselves down.
But like for me to put a, a picture of what I think you are,
that's only going to block me, right?
But I like, again, like you said, people are so busy.
And I know that in certain instances employers are also so
busy that they, you know, they've got a lot on their
plate. But I think it is really

(42:41):
important that people, you know,take either time to even in your
planning stages. I think that's also gonna save
you money. It's gonna save you effort.
If you look at your house beforeyou start building it and saying
is there a way that we can if everyone just took a breath and

(43:02):
did that work first, I think is also anyway.
I wanna talk a little bit about the freelancers professional
network and now you had we had talked about this offline, but I
wanna just tell me a little bit about that that venture with
them what's. Going on yeah.
So it's funny now again, like any other other time, I wanted

(43:22):
to use CGLCC's activism and advocacy to actually support a
different type of entrepreneur. So the idea essentially was
knowing the systems that CTLCC has and my experience with them.
It kind of also, it was something I brought up before I
left, but now more than ever is kind of a little bit more

(43:44):
predominant. So it's this network we're
trying to build essentially is it's a new membership level for
CGLCC. We are looking at how do we
support all entrepreneurs, How do we really open the door?
You know, the current programs that CGLCC have offers is a main
catering focused on a, a certaintype of entrepreneur, an

(44:08):
entrepreneur that can only really connect with and sell
with global corporate business, which while all while it's a
fantastic program and it's, and it's done a lot of great things
for a lot of entrepreneurs, There is a entrepreneur that
we're missing, which is, you know, the freelancer and
entrepreneur, the, the, the gig economy worker that is now more

(44:30):
predominant in our economy than ever.
And so I had this idea of essentially just, you know,
creating a new group for them that could provide access to
resources like, you know, everything from how to set up
your business properly, you know, how to when should you

(44:52):
incorporate, what kind of taxes things you should be looking at.
You know, how to get yourself ready for, you know, Co
production or, or, or Co development.
All of these different types of business resources, as well as
access to our professional network of corporates and, and
new corporate partners and government agencies that we can

(45:14):
then use to advocate for industry.
And so we've called it the CQCC FAM.
It's part of the CQCC FAM, it's the freelancer Preneur associate
membership. It'll be launching in the fall
of 2025. We will be working with
different partners. Right now we're in talks with

(45:35):
groups like the Canadian Media Producers Association, CBC, you
know, all the big, big folks to try and create a professional's
network. The first one will be creative
arts, entertainment and media. So really kind of going through
different sectors of that and figuring out what we can do to
support freelancers in this space.

(45:57):
And the, the real precipice camefrom with this world of, you
know, tariffs and, you know, everything happening in the US
and, and the amount of American content that we're, we're
getting the fact that Canadian system is so small and, you
know, we're now losing American opportunities that are now
staying in the US. You know, how do we support

(46:17):
entrepreneurs in this, in, in this process?
The, the, the TV industry is predominantly all freelancers.
It is set, it's set up like a lemonade stand, right?
Like we are all just freelance gigs that are brought in to kind
of work on our own. Whether you're a production
coordinator, whether you are APA, whether you are a story

(46:38):
producer, all of us are independent businesses.
And So what happens when all of those folks that are out of work
consistently because right now it's it's coming in waves.
So we get we get gigs and, and then everybody goes for those
same gigs. And then there's still people
that don't get the gig and then the gigs are gone.
And now there's the pool is bigger again of unemployed

(46:59):
people's. So what happens with all of
those people that build the things, whether it's like a
photo shoot or whatever it is, What happens with all those
people that are their own businesses and build those
things happen to get into the same room?
What happens when they get in the same room and they can start
to knowledge share, They can start to, they can start to get
access to resources, set their companies up properly, start

(47:22):
collaborating on ideas, start spitballing things and pull
together shoots and whatever youknow they can go after and start
seeing themselves really as businesses.
And so that's really the precipice is how do we get all
of these freelancers now to start recognizing themselves as
a business and how do we give them the tools in that to

(47:42):
succeed, grow and thrive? Everything that you said about,
you know, like all these, you know, I wish I would have honed
in. It literally has brought you to
this moment because you're now you've done you've you're like
the 360 experience of all the different, the disparate
elements of what it means to work for yourself, to work at
the bottom, work at the top, etcetera.
And now you're able to funnel that experience through this

(48:06):
network that you're creating. It was all part of the plan
because now you're like, OK, howdo I help others based on my
experiences, to get in a room together and to connect it, to
create and not at the end of theday is like something very
beautiful. Because I'm not trying to.
Once again, I'm not trying to pull smoke.
But as somebody who's a freelancer who you know, I know
I have to put myself out there to meet people.

(48:26):
I have to. I can't just sit around waiting
because I don't wake up to a paycheck.
Your legacy is being brought forward.
As cheesy as that sounds, it's true.
I mean, I appreciate that. That's very kind of you to say.
I think I mean, at the same timeit's, it's again, just, yeah,
leaving it better for folks, right.
Like I, you know, the one thing is, you know, no different than

(48:48):
anybody else. We're all so busy.
And as freelancers, I, you know,I can't tell you that I know a
ton, you know, I know a couple queer people in my lane and I
know a couple queer people in myindustry, but I'm sure there is
tons more that we're all just sobusy that we haven't had a
chance to meet. So it's like this idea of how do
we, you know, how do we support each other?
How do we get people, How do we get things that are going to

(49:09):
help you? How do we help your business
thrive at this time? You know, what if, what if all
of these freelancers could create Co production companies
to make their ideas happen instead of waiting in a queue
where these straight gatekeepersor at these other production
companies that are getting all the money that are getting
things funded. What happens when we could take
the power out of their hands and, and start to tell our own

(49:32):
stories and start to empower ourselves and the a way to tell
our own stories or get access togroups like CMPA who can help us
get our pitches ready and thingslike that.
And so that is really the goal for this network is we're going
to do this industry by industry.We're starting with the one that
the creative arts that came in the media.
Then we're looking at events, tourism and hospitality and

(49:55):
really looking at how do we bolster queer business by
bolstering industries, you know,using our sponsors and new
partnerships that we bring in. How do we use them to cater and
hone programming, content and supports for their industries so
that the everything just feels alittle bit more intentional the

(50:15):
way I kind of did. This is no different than, you
know, when I, I served for years, right?
But when I was 19 or 19 years old, I was a district training
manager for Boston Pizza International and I built my
own. I built, I built my own service
training program that had, I mean, yeah, it was the nineteen

(50:37):
yeah, that I so I built like a server's manual from like post
all different departments in therestaurant.
I built a training manual. Then it was purchased by Boston
Pizza and I became their their, their trainer.
And then I would create. Their trainer, I love that.
So it's like the whole this, so like the the whole way I've been
kind of doing this is kind of the, IT feels like it's now

(50:58):
replicated, complicating. Now that you say it out loud.
I was like, OK, well, I've done that before.
Yeah. So it's, I mean, why not, right.
Like, it's what better way to todistill your own information and
to make things better for otherswhile also making things better
for me, right. Like, I didn't make that manual
because I, you know, I wanted toimpart knowledge.

(51:20):
I made that manual because I wassick and tired of working with
shitty other servers or shitty hostesses.
Yeah, that couldn't figure out how to how to take an order, how
to do these things right. And so it's like everything is
like, while it seems good intention, you know, when I put
why I'm creating this, this whole thing is because finding
queer people on set sometimes bedifficult.

(51:42):
Having an EP sometimes understand why it's important to
have queer representation or whymaybe those people should not be
sis and white or why, you know, all of those different things.
I'm hoping to create a system where we can find spaces where
we don't have to do that for each other, where we can find
more people that are aligned, you know, with our mission,

(52:03):
visions, values of who we are aspeople and who we are as
businesses, just as the chamber did for, you know, supplier
diversity. How do we do that for
entrepreneurs? How do we that are in the
trenches every day? And we want to open our doors,
you know, be your work, fam for freelancers, create that space,
provide access to webinars, programming, you know, events.

(52:24):
We plan to do things like a freelancers forum is something
that we're working on as well. Instead of doing a full
conference, doing a forum, we'llbe working with you.
Obviously Geo, though, I don't know if this is something we
could be excitedly talking aboutright now, but but you know,
using your, your podcast as a way to talk to people about
their career pathways. You know, I think that's really

(52:44):
why I wanted to talk to you and do this with you today is
because I think sometimes we lose sight or can't recognize
flags or moments in our lives that we we can, we can really
hone and harness the things thatwe love into doing good while
also doing what we love. And I think that if there's an

(53:06):
opportunity for anybody now morethan ever with what's happening
in the world, you know, this is a chance to come together to
find community to to build community, to support community.
And I think that's really why I wanted to really do this now is
how do we how do we protect us before the wave gets too big,
you know, but before, you know, before it's too late And we're

(53:30):
not and we're not doing the things now to give these people
these tools, You know, if the economy is only going to get
worse, these businesses are onlygoing to struggle for more,
right? And so let's find a way to kind
of protect ourselves now and connect ourselves now so that,
you know, reaching out for work is not a harder thing.

(53:51):
We found a queer owned business out of Saskatchewan who offers
health, dental and vision benefits for freelancers
specifically that you can drop off.
I need them, I need them, right,right.
And so there's going to be a directory that that'll be almost
like LinkedIn. You can post your, you've got
reels as a, as a creative. If you've got artwork, you could

(54:13):
put your resume, you can, you can really dive into your
specialties as widgets so that people can easily find and
search what you do and, and, and, and put it out to the
public so that we can support all business owners and getting
things booked and blessed. You know, who owns creative arts
and entertainment more than the queers?
You know, like who owns? Nobody.

(54:34):
Right, nobody but then, but thenalso like who owns tourism,
hospitality event, like the queer.
So it's like when you look at itfrom a business standpoint in
terms of how we can build this, there's a really exciting path
forward here where people from niche jobs and careers will find
their their space a little bit more here because I think

(54:55):
there's going to be a little bitmore camaraderie and a little
bit more, you know, openness as to how we can get people in the
group. I love it.
I think that there's a lot of opportunity there for
specifically on the term of likepathways, where especially I
think back to when I started thecompany 8 years ago, I had no
idea what the path was. I had this like vision in my
mind of like what I wanted to achieve.

(55:17):
It was blurry. I'll, I'll be honest always.
And now, you know, in retrospect, I can look back at
the last almost decade and say, OK, I know, you know, point A to
point B. Maybe it was like back to A
again, 4 to D whatever. And but there wasn't necessarily
a like a carved out path for me the way you're describing this
as AI think that this network would potentially help a lot of

(55:39):
especially new entrepreneurs seea clearer trajectory for
themselves and say, OK, I know that I don't know how it's going
to look, but I know exactly whatis going to get me there.
And that is through the connections that I'm making.
I would never have known about, you know, how to get into story
producing had I not, you know, like been asking, like getting

(56:00):
in the room and just meeting those people, right?
Sitting at a table at the lunch table, talking to a story
producer about why they do what they do, what they love, what
they do. And so I think that's also what
I really hope comes from the pathways is that, you know, you
might be in something now and like you could like you're that
curiosity that you have or, or that thing.

(56:24):
I remember when, when it was Covic and I was listening, I, I,
I really got bitch. I went into master class heavy.
I was like, I am in school, likeI wrote all my notes and like
there was a couple that I listened to.
Two that spoke really spoke to me.
One was Judd Apatow when we weregoing through comedy, but then
the other was Shonda Rhimes and and she really kind of broke

(56:46):
things down and she said like, Ireally, I didn't know I was in
my lane. I always thought I was crazy
until I was finally in it and around my people.
And I think that's what's interesting about exploring
pathways is that you could find those things that you recognize
in yourself that you're not maybe getting in that thing that
you're doing that you keep either recognizing that it's

(57:06):
being silenced or that you're constantly muscling to get what
you want out of life. And so I think that, I mean,
maybe because I've lived a 9 million lives, I truly see the
value in taking opportunity to try different things, but
bringing your experience into everything you do and just

(57:27):
putting your pussy into it and see if it works.
And the good thing about chapters is that chapters can
end and they don't have and you don't have to feel bad about it,
right? A good book does.
Isn't the net, you know, just one long chapter?
Still part of the book. It's still part of the book and
in the book you write the book. You know, I, I was reading the

(57:49):
Ethical Slut and the the one of the things I love about the
ethical Slut is that like, you know, whether it's Poly, it
talks about it in a polyamory sense, But it, it really stuck
with me is like your ability to write, rewrite and and write the
page is yours at any point in time.

(58:09):
And I think one of my next, whatthe fucks would be benchmarks.
What are the benchmarks that we've put on ourselves on our
relationships on, on what success looks like?
Like what the fuck right. Like that to me is one of the
biggest things that holds me back in terms of like my, you
know, I, I suffer a lot of imposter syndrome, especially if

(58:32):
somebody that doesn't have a lotof technical training in a lot
of ways, I think that it causes a lot of anxiety that plays out
in me in certain ways that I'm still managing and try to figure
out. But it does because you're
always worried, right? Like what if they see through
the cracks? What if they see, what if, what
if like the, the great things that I'm doing are now outshoned

(58:52):
by this thing that I don't know how to do?
And so like that anxiety then outweighs also these kind of
things where you have to also then recognize the great things
you're doing, right. And so sometimes it's really
hard to see that when you're when you're spinning at things
in that way. But I think that there's so many
times that we've put in so many benchmarks in our lives and

(59:14):
they're, they're so damaging to us as as people, as
entrepreneurs. Yeah, I don't know.
I'm kind of going through that myself this past year.
Where, you know, in my mind, I went to school, I went to OCAD,
I went to design school, I graphic design, you know, this
has been my, my life's work so far.

(59:35):
So this has been the identity that I have solidified or like
around me and that this is who this is what I do.
This is who I am. It can't be everything for me.
I'm realizing that I need to diversify.
I need to because I get bored. I need even this venture.
Like I'm realizing this is something that your essence,
your energy, whatever it lends itself so well to fucking do it.

(59:58):
Like, why are we staying in thisone lane when it's like the
ethical Slut where you're like, life is a fucking buffet.
Like, what are we doing here? Why are we limiting ourselves to
one thing when there's so much out there to experience?
And so I don't know, like that has been something where I'm
trying to break free of this limiting belief of, oh, I'm, I'm
a designer, period. Right, But.

(01:00:20):
But not even just that, it's also this idea of like being
proud of accomplishment, like we're no longer able to also see
like look at the things that we've done to get like and
being, for instance, right now I'm not working.
I'm not working on a show. I'm in between shows.
You know, I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not working at
all actually, other than workingfor myself.

(01:00:42):
I'm currently developing. So you're working.
Though I'm work, I'm working, yeah, but like technically
working, but I'm not on paper, you know, like technically to
the, the world, I'm technically not working.
And I'm. But I always working.
I'm never not working, you know,but so that's one thing is like

(01:01:03):
I'm all I am. My success is reliant on me
continuously doing it, whether I'm getting a paycheck or not,
right. And so the other part of it is,
but then I look at what I'm doing and it even though it's
not getting paid, it's successful because I'm pulling
together ATV show shoot with no resources, with nothing but

(01:01:25):
goodwill, a cute smile and flicking eyelashes, you know,
and I'm I and you know, and thatto me is more successful than
sitting in a desk sometimes and just looking through casting
videos. So it's like, what is this
measure of success and why, why do we why does the fact that I'm
not getting a paycheck from somebody to validate the fact

(01:01:47):
that I've Got Talent enough for me to to be for me to keep me?
OK, but that's the life we have chosen, right?
Like in so many ways we've chosen it.
And so we don't wake up to a paycheck, but the thing that is
pulling us forward that that driving force is that need to
create is that need to connect, is that need to keep going.

(01:02:09):
Because I, to me, when I slow down and I start to, you know,
I, that's not, that's when I'm not in the best of spaces.
And we are our own worst criticswhen it comes to the, let's say
productivity and money, right? If we're not making money, I'm
not valid. I'm not.
And that's my own. That's my shit.
Like I'm, we're in the same boat.
I'm like, if I'm not making money, I'm useless or worthless

(01:02:30):
or whatever, which is not true. But, but at the same time, you
know this and I don't have to tell you this, but you are
building, you are building foundations for the next
chapter, for the next part of the book, right?
And so that's what you're where you're doing, but you also can't
negate all of the things that you've accomplished up until
this point, which is, you know, cuz we can be so like, what's
next? What's next, What's next?
And I talked to this almost every episode with everyone that

(01:02:53):
I talk to, it's like we're constantly like, go, go, go.
But it's like, when do we actually take a minute to say,
yeah, I did. I've done that.
And I can feel good about this stack of experiences that I've
accumulated that is going to propel me into the next thing.
But it's just that question markof what is that right when we're
in that in between phase? As especially as freelancers and

(01:03:13):
entrepreneurs like, you know, we're working from our homes.
You know, my work, my work literally follows me to bed.
It's the last. It's the first thing I think
about when I get up in the morning.
It's what I think about when I go to bed.
It's in my house all the time. It is so intrinsically
intertwined to who we are that it's hard for us not to take

(01:03:35):
things personal. It's hard for us to not, you
know, and now in a world that communication is being dropped
by folks like, like we're, I don't know if people are just
too busy or what it is, but people just stop responding to
emails, proposals, whatever it is.
They just don't even respond anymore.
They're like, oh, you know what?I just don't have time.
So I'm never going to get back to you 100%.
And so as freelancers who sit there and take things, you know,

(01:03:58):
and like are chasing at things and they're taking their, their,
their time that's not paid to build things and things like
that. And and and submit and whatever
people don't realize what that takes and, and, and how how much
those knocks hurt every single time.
But we do those every, we do it every day, day in, day out,
because we know that we have to,we have to eat.

(01:04:20):
And so it's been a really interesting journey.
I think right now more than ever, and I think that's
actually why I really wanted this fan program to launch was
because like you said, you know,it's not we're not great when we
when we are alone and not working and not motivated.
And So what happens hopefully isthat you'll now have access to,

(01:04:44):
you know, a directory of people that you could reach out to have
a virtual coffee with, talk about their experience.
If you can come to an event or whatever it may be, or you know,
visit a webinar or whatever it is that that of other folks that
are like minded that are in a very similar industry that you
can shoot the ship with. Maybe make make a new friend,
maybe make a new business partner, go after a project

(01:05:05):
together with your experience alone.
Geo, I think get into designing pitch decks, get into.
There's so many different thingsyou can do with your skills that
again, it's about just taking your skill and transferring it
to different networks and just pitching it that way and
packaging it that way. But that's again, that's time.

(01:05:27):
That's just, you have to have that time.
You have to get that breathing room.
You have to whatever. And it's one more thing in an
entrepreneur's place to be like I already am packaging all of
these other things so. I will always say yes to things
because I want to do everything I want.
Like you talk about pitch decks.You know how many pitch decks
I've designed in my life? It's to the point where I'm
like, I don't wanna do that anymore.
You. See, that's it exactly right.

(01:05:49):
It's like what are the things you love to do?
And I think that's why I went this way.
It was like, what do I love to do?
I love to connect with people and I want to help people
connect their story and chase their dream with whatever I've
done in my life. Whether it's a business or
CGLCC, whether it's a drag queenon Drag Race, I mean it's a

(01:06:10):
contestant on Got Talent, whether it's a 16 year old
attending a pride festival for their first time.
My modus operandi and my mythos has always been about help
people achieve, achieve the thing that they've always wanted
for themselves. I love TV so much because there
while there are, you know, painful moments that happen,

(01:06:32):
there are also there's so much joy and there's so much passion
in people and there's so much awesomeness to celebrate and to
be of the opportunity to the privilege that I have of getting
to signature and have them tell me their story in a way and or
work with them to kind of punch it up and have fun with it and

(01:06:54):
really go for it. And so that they can shine in
the moment that they are going for their dream.
It's like to think as a little gay boy from Saskatoon, SK who
like, you know, started in his family restaurant, like took all
of these jobs, you know, was thesandwich sandwich artiste and
literally did like every freaking job under the sun to be
here now. And like, would I have ever

(01:07:15):
thought that that was ever possible?
No. And I think that's also why I
scream from the rooftops that I'm from Saskatoon and I proudly
wear it as my badge of honor. And even when I'm in rooms, I'm
like, we really don't cast out that way.
I'm like, no, no, I'll be sending memos out that way.
It's because I want other kids from those hometowns to see that
these opportunities are available, that we aren't.

(01:07:38):
That just because you live in Saskatchewan, opportunity isn't
borderized. We are a global community, we're
a national community and you canchase the opportunities you
want. You can be the person you want
and you don't have to live by these rules or things that
people think are confining you. I love it.
I have to say, like just talkingto you, it's very inspiring.

(01:07:59):
You are motivating me to do morein my own life.
Like at I once again, not tryingto blow smoke.
I just really love it. It's the connection piece.
But you touched on TV and I do wanna I did wanna ask you this.
I love reality TV and I watch a lot of it.
My mom even made a comment. She's like, you know, you don't
really watch a ton of TV, but when you talk about the shows
you watch, it's all reality. I'm like, I love reality TV,

(01:08:21):
like it's just something that I love it.
I love it, love it. So you have worked on so many
shows, like just list off some of the shows you've worked on
because I think it's very impressive.
I mean, I like started out doinglike some like smutty, like made
for movie of the weeks and like,you know, there was one called

(01:08:43):
the family seduction that had like a killer guy that was in
love with the daughter and the mother and all of this.
Like I did both those kinds of projects.
I got to do Apple, the remount of ghost writer for Apple.
I worked on that one. You know, I was the casting is a
Canadian casting producer for MILF Manor season 2.

(01:09:03):
I've done family feud Canada a couple seasons.
I've done MILF Manor MILF Manor season.
Two, I love that show. Oh my God.
So what else? Beast Games was probably, it's
probably one of my biggest ones.I was a field producer in that I
got to run through the the jungle and all that fun stuff.
I think, you know, Canada's dragraces.
But that's my, that's my, that'smy crowning jewel.

(01:09:26):
I got to do Season 5 and Season 6 That's coming out here soon as
a story producer. Yeah, Canada's Got Talent.
I was there for three seasons. I started out working in brand
integrations as their brand integrations producer because of
my background with sponsorships from Pride, you know, that's
what got me the opportunity to go into brand integration

(01:09:48):
producing. And so and then from there,
that's where I started getting my story chops to kind of move
into different, different parts.And because of Canada's Got
Talent, I was able because I just got to do the interviews
and talk to folks about, you know, painful moments and things
like that. That was really kind of what
helped set me up to be able to be in a room to talk to the
Queens about, you know, some of the things that have happened in
their lives. And so got to get out.

(01:10:09):
I did that show too. I don't know if that like you're
because you're a reality fan. Like that's like where all the
celebrities are trapped in a house.
I've heard of that. That was.
Yeah, that was wild. Yeah, it's so interesting.
I want to talk about story producing because if you're
talking to, you're talking to contestants on the shows and
you're trying to pull the story stories out of them in order to
connect with the audience, what is that experience like?
Like what, How can you talk to me a little bit about that whole

(01:10:32):
world? Because I've watched shows where
I see people on TV and I, I immediately latch on to a
certain contestants like, Oh, this person, for whatever
reason, I vibe with even you talking to me pre this interview
about my interview and interviewing you, right?
And talking about that. Holy, the questions and, and the
flow that has given me so much perspective.

(01:10:53):
Even in that 10 minute call thatwe had, I was like, Oh shit,
you're making me rethink some things, which is amazing.
So now I want to put it on you because I think it's, it's just
such AI. I'm in this world now a little
bit. So I want to like, you know,
tell me about it. Yeah, I mean, I, I think the
reason I was able to get into story was about just being
curious and, and, you know, you obviously like there's processes

(01:11:17):
along the way for for story producers to get notes.
Obviously, you know, there's casting notes, you're going to
have materials. So it's, you know, doing your
research, really kind of findingthose moments.
You know, I'll go and look for things that aren't in those
documents. I'll go look at their social
media. I'll go look at things like that
so that I can find, oh, I see a picture here of them wearing

(01:11:37):
this. I'm going to ask, does that have
a significance? Does that tie me to a different
story? And So what I would do is then
like, well, I'll, I'll then justcreate my master list of
questions and keep it, you know,try to get myself and chunk them
into sections or chronologicallyso that I know that I can either
get folks into a moment or get folks into a time in their life

(01:11:59):
and kind of keep it all kind of flowing that way.
I think I obviously you set up your pre calls, you gauge
energies, all that kind of stuff.
You know, I find ways to connectwith my different people in
whatever way I can. Sometimes on Drag Race, we have
a luxury, right? We are given a cast, they stay

(01:12:19):
with you all the way till the end or until they go.
And so you can flesh things out a little bit further.
Whereas on a show like Cameras Got Talent, you know, it is a
lot of burn and turn right. Like it's like, you know, people
are cut right there and then in one episode or it's all of the
IT it really depends on the formula and the format of what

(01:12:40):
you're what type of show you're working on, all that kind of
stuff, you know, are are they just like Mr. Beast?
You know, because it was a YouTube formula, you know,
everything was a bites. It was all sound bites.
It's not like you you don't havea lot of time to get into, you
know, an in depth story with somebody unless we have time to

(01:13:01):
care about them. And so it's finding that balance
of how do I knowing that time isfinite and broadcast TV, how do
I get your bytes out knowing that I need to be able to get
the rest of the episode done right and coaching you to tell
me that story now in a succinct way.
And asking you in that story that's still going to prompt a a
response in a way that is still going to give it to me

(01:13:23):
succinctly, right? Yeah.
So it's like, yeah, it's a it's it's it's like social math.
There is a science to it. Like a lot of times specifically
we're talking about like Drag Race.
A lot of these Queens will be like, oh, like the edit, the
edit, right? And I always say, and we talked
about this, you said what you said you said.
What you said like there is no AI, there is like we do not tell

(01:13:48):
you like. So what I will say sometimes is
like, cuz we never interfere. This is all about authenticity.
There's no way that especially in a world like this, they will
we'll get read for filth as soonas it's not genuine, right?
And so I mean, I will tell you there are times that I'll hear

(01:14:09):
something from one of my contestants and I'll say like,
what do you think about saying it this way?
Just to help them kind of eitherpunch it up, maybe give them a
brandable moment, something that, you know, but like that
shit can get shared out in memes, like, you know, because
again, this is all about brand building right there.
The the thing about reality TV is there are numerous ways to

(01:14:30):
win the game in reality TV. And I say this as part of my
like pre contestant conversation, which is you can
win the physical game and do theend or you can win the game.
You could also win the the game in the chair.
You know, the amount of times that I will say more quotes on
shows like about from, from shows like Drag Race.
Yeah, from the interview room asopposed to talking about who the

(01:14:53):
winner was is like the balance is imbalance.
Like you're always sharing quotes, You're always saying
quotes. You're not always just sitting
there talking about the winner'scareer.
So if you really want to spend time in a game, be be fun in the
chair, you know, really be go for it.
And that's that's why it's so personality driven and in

(01:15:13):
reality TV is because that's what people have tuned in for.
They want hot takes. They want big, quirky, fun
personalities that are going to keep them enticed.
And so that I think that's what we're going to see now in this
new next wave of what content looks like, which is because you
know, the the whole funding stream and everything about
Canadian television is changing.And so everything is going in

(01:15:36):
back to or going to this contentcreated for content creator
created content first model thatget your eyes, build your
audience, and then we'll talk about giving you a deal.
And so I think it's going to be really interesting going forward
of what that looks like. I'm gonna pick your brain at
some point. I wanna hire you out to help me

(01:15:57):
suss this out because I feel like you'll help me to refine
what it is that I'm putting out into the world.
Because I'm like doing this all on my own and just hearing you
speak. I'm like I really gotta rejig
some things. If you aren't doing a like a
system update, you know, every year or every two years, no
different than you would on yourcomputer to your business and

(01:16:19):
your business model. And what you're offering is
especially nowadays with the advancements that are coming out
and things are changing so rapidly.
If you aren't doing that system update for your business, that's
where I think you're making the biggest mistake or at least
you're setting yourself up for blockades or for potential

(01:16:40):
unemployment. Is that because you have to be
ready to adapt and you have to be aware of what's happening
currently and you have to be able to figure out how am is
what I intend to be communicatedwhat's actually being heard or
landing right? And I think that's like no
different when I send I if I've got a pitch deck, I send a pitch

(01:17:01):
deck for one of my shows out. I've got a producer's circle of
folks that I will send everything to and wait to hear
it back from every single one ofthem before I make an edit,
right? Because I need to make sure that
how I'm seeing the game or how I'm seeing The thing is landing
to somebody that's completely not from this world, right?

(01:17:22):
And so you should always be doing that with your business
offering, you know, like, hey, when you go to my website, can
you tell that this is what I do?Hey, when you go to go book an
appointment with me, is this really easy or user friendly?
You know, using our friends and our networks and things and
clients that we already have in our system to be kind of also
helping us scale in this time isalso important, right?

(01:17:44):
Like that's how you're going to learn and, and you're not going
to know it's a kink. And sometimes your friends don't
unless you tell them that they want to hear from you.
Sometimes they won't tell you because they feel bad pointing
out a flaw in your system that you've built and that they know
that you've put all your time into.
So you as an entrepreneur have to open that door to be

(01:18:04):
constructive, be get feedback. You know, a lot of people think
because we're passionate as entrepreneurs, I get this all
the time. People think I'm precious.
People think that I'm like, because I'm so passionate about
everything that I must be take things a certain way or that if
I come to you with feedback thatI'll get, I'll be so whatever.
And it's like, no, no, I have ADHD.

(01:18:25):
It's how it's just for me, I have to.
It's all about systems, checks and balances.
So when you tell me there's an issue with something, I just
need to know. We've thought about all of the
different ways that it could because I've overthought all of
those ways already. And so it's like I'm not being
precious. I just would need to know so I
know how to move, steer my ship.And a lot of people think that

(01:18:46):
in that giving you feedback to your business, even as a friend,
that they're hurting your feelings or if they don't want
to hire you for a gig, if they don't want to hire you for a
gig, even if it's relevant, likethat's OK, I can take, if you're
going to hire somebody else, like I'm a big boy, I'm, I'm all
right, if you don't want to giveme the gig, I would love to know

(01:19:08):
why. And it's not a closure piece.
It's just so I know how I can better improve and move myself
forward or, or know how to engage with you next time.
But like, I don't need the gig. I'm happy somebody's getting a
gig and I will find my own gig, you know, But a lot of people
treat that like the most difficult conversations, like no
girl, It's just the way the world works.

(01:19:29):
There's only so many gigs. There's only so many people.
It is, it is the way it is. Like I, I don't think that I
deserve anything over anybody else.
We need to move forward and makesure that we're you're always
doing those kind of those checkpoints for yourself to
ensure that your business is in the best position to be seen,
found and grow. If it's coming from a place that

(01:19:50):
is, hey, maybe like a little to the left, a little to the right,
where it's not this a criticism,it's a it's helpful.
Like so on the topic, you know when I hit you're like, Hey, I
sent you questions for the the episode.
And that's something that I've actually realized cuz I got some
feedback from people just over the last few weeks of recording
saying like, oh, like, you know,normally I get questions

(01:20:13):
beforehand. And I, I was approaching it from
this, you know, like, oh, I wantit to be free flowing
conversation. And then I'm realizing, OK,
maybe I need to structure it a little bit more.
So sending them out to you and you're like, I have some
feedback on that. And so I've been asking
everybody at the end of every episode the same recurring
question, which is, you know, what's the most on brand thing
you've ever done? And you had notes to me about,

(01:20:33):
you know, maybe you can like reword it in a way that is,
that'll get more juice for the squeeze.
If, if in so many ways. And this is almost like a, like
a live moment where a live test,a live test where, you know, you
had said to me, like, maybe if you word it in a way where it's
like, how do you define your personal brand?
Or, you know, what's the, what'sthe, when did that definition of
your brand for yourself click for you?

(01:20:54):
And so I, you know, I was like, OK, I'm going to make some notes
and, and rethink this because I want this to be like changed.
So like, I'm going to ask you togive me feedback live like so
for you, like what would be something that you think would
be more impactful? Because I, I'm always looking to
learn and grow and evolve. And so you know, any comments on
that? I mean, I mean, I think, I think

(01:21:15):
you have, I, I, I mean, there's a reason we're going forward
with pathways is I think that you have all of those elements.
I think you are engaging. I think you are, you're
naturally curious. You have all of those wonderful
attributes that make it warm andeasy to, to, to connect with.
I, I don't, I don't really have feedback for you, Gio.
I think that like your curiosityand your willingness to explore,

(01:21:40):
I think that's going to be your biggest selling feature forward
is that as somebody that's also trying to find your own footwork
and finding a new piece, that isthe fun of it.
You've kept it really conversational.
I've felt at ease this whole time.
Not on me, actually. I thought that was like, I don't
have feedback for you. I'll take like, I'm like, no

(01:22:01):
notes. No, I meant like cuz like we're
nearing the end. It's I guess honestly, like I
cannot believe it's been an hourand a half.
I feel like, Oh my God, we've been talking for 10 minutes, but
yeah, wow. But no, my my question is like
around the that the final and like send off question, you know
where it's like that's the more what I'm I'm I'm asking cuz.

(01:22:22):
The brand piece you want. To Yeah, yeah, like.
Personal brand. Yeah, like what?
And also like what is your opinion of or your thoughts
around like that as a as a finalquestion, because you know you
are a story producer so maybe I worded it you wrong, but.
As a story producer, I would probably, I would probably move
this, OK, I'd probably put it closer to the top.

(01:22:43):
I mean, as we've talked about through mine, I guess my brand
or my motto is, you know, gay and forward in everything we do.
And I I use the word gay, but I mean it as a broad spectrum
queerness of across all to SLGBTQIA plus acronym.

(01:23:04):
But I just mean gay forward is in when you're going to get a
haircut, where you getting it? When you're booking ADJ, where
are you booking them? When you're when you're going to
a small town, where do you go get a drink?
I think that there's so much that we can do in terms of how
we support each other that's notnecessarily about being in the
parade that that actually have meaningful, lasting impact into

(01:23:25):
queer lives, you know, searchingout artists, searching out, you
know, people that we can work tosupport in every which way
possible. I don't think we've seen the
worst of what's coming. I don't, I, I think we're just
warming up, to be honest. Anyway, going back to the
question, which was, you know, Ithink you'll see when you look
back in this, you'll see that everything was in my life about

(01:23:47):
getting it forward and everything kind of calls it back
to what that brand was, which ishow I choose to live my life
every day. Kindness is a currency.
I just want to thank you so much.
This has been so refreshing. I'm so happy that we've
reconnected. It was a couple years in the
middle where Covic. Happened, Yeah.

(01:24:09):
We almost died. So yeah, we're good, yeah.
Yeah, I just thank you so much for taking the time to taking
part in this project. This has been a passion project
for me and anybody who has said yes, I've just been so warmed by
that, want to do it, and I'm just so excited for what you're
going to be doing, what you're working on right now.

(01:24:29):
I think that there's a lot of more recently, a guest of mine
said there's a lot more runway ahead of us for a. 100%.
Doing. I'm really excited.
I am actually a project I've gotcoming up.
I've developed a new TV series format in the unscripted space
and it looks as though I've built a little island, a little

(01:24:51):
magnificent little crew of folkswho want to go and see it
happen. And so we are going to see if we
can potentially film a pilot or even a pilot season this summer.
And so, you know, if anything, I, you know, I want to leave on
the note of you don't know what you can do until you do it, you
know, and if there's anything I can leave you with is like, just

(01:25:12):
do it. You know, like I for years even,
you know, after cancer, I lost my voice and I used to tour.
I don't know if you know this ornot, but I used to tour
professionally as a singer priorI did Canadian Idol, I was a
contestant. That's actually was my first
time in reality TV. I was contestant.
On a reality show, in a singing competition and so.

(01:25:33):
But I stopped singing. And after cancer, I always kind
of doubted myself as to is it good enough and why now and all
of these things. And, you know, even like getting
on stage has been difficult. And I used to come, I came from
a theater background and kind ofputting myself on stage and
having people look at me that way has all been different.
But, you know, recently I started getting into, you know,

(01:25:53):
I got into improv. I took an improv class just to
kind of start dusting off those cobwebs.
And what I can say is like, there's never anything.
But there's nothing better than than than proving yourself wrong
yes and in a world of imposter syndrome, I think it's important
that we prove ourselves wrong daily.
Just do it just go for it and and go for it in a way that you

(01:26:16):
will be proud of in the end, that you can not only be proud
of yourself, but you're proud ofyour actions and be proud of
what you put into the world, including the kindness that we
give each other every day. You're.
The best. Honestly, you're the best.
So inspiring, I love it. I can't wait to see you next
week. I can't wait, I'm so excited.
Or a big, big hug for sure. If anybody listening would like
to get in touch with you, want to contact you online, work with

(01:26:39):
you like where can they find you?
Honestly, Instagram is the best way to get a hold of me.
You can find me at Queer dot as dot yoke, like Queer as Folk,
but breakfast, I'm a huge fan ofbrunch, so Queer as yoke, you
can find me there. LinkedIn, Danny Papados in her
shoes Productions is kind of what I kind of is my DBA name,

(01:27:00):
but find me through my handles. It's pretty easy.
Yeah, and to anybody who's looking to reach out to me and
talk about branding, you can reach out to
methroughgeographic.com, follow the podcast on Spotify, give a
like on YouTube, subscribe and Iwant.
Can I say it one more thing? Yeah, absolutely I do.
I do want to say one more. One last thing I want to say is,

(01:27:20):
you know, I am looking to build a world of people that want to
help each other and that includes in TV production.
And so I am open to mentorship. And I think I, I do want to just
put this out there as a public call.
I'd like to say, you know, I, ifI have time, when I have time,
if you have questions and there's anything I can do to
support or there's people that Ican put you in touch with, I am

(01:27:41):
that person that is happy to help when and where I can.
In that same light, I do plan toalso offer mentorship
opportunities further down the road.
And so if our people are interested, please feel free to
reach out. I love it and he'll do just
that. I can vouch for that.

(01:28:02):
You're the best. So are you OK?
I'm going to do my. Sorry.
Yeah, no, you're good. And to anybody who'd like to
reach out to me to talk about branding or design, you can
contact me through geographic.com, follow the
podcast on Instagram. I'm on YouTube, Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, leave a comment or review.
It would really help me out withthe algorithm.
And Danny, once again, I want tothank you so much.

(01:28:24):
And goodbye. Thanks, Geo, Thanks for having
me. This was helpful for some folks
out there who just really, I don't know, wanted to get to
curve on my life a little bit. But yeah, I hope this worked out
for everyone. Absolutely, without a doubt.
I love it. Bye bye, I'm taking off my
headphones.

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