Fine Is Not a Feeling with Bill G. Williams

This week on GRAFIK CONTENT, I chat with Executive Leadership Coach & author Bill G. Williams. We talk about hosting The Art Of Leadership Women, defining success through our relationships, what it means to live with R.E.S.P.E.C.T., the impact of energy and perspective, and why judging and being judgmental aren't the same.

🎧 Tune in for:

✔️ Living authentically after coming out

✔️ The evolution of LGBTQ+ acceptance

✔️ The duality of the human spirit

✔️ Walking the runway of life (in stilettos)

✔️ Interviewing Canadian icon Lisa LaFlamme

✔️ Our collaboration on Bill's brand

✔️ Fighting addiction - and the wisdom that comes with it

✔️ Corporate zhuzh - and how to own it

✔️ "Believing in Brilliance to Build Your Best"

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🔹 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn

🔹 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Buy the Book⁠

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🎵 Music:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nicholas Nothing

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I really believe it's about helping people see a different
perspective, you know, maybe walk a mile in somebody else's
shoes and just give a sense of of what it's really like to be
that way and then make choices about how do you want to walk
yourself. Now take cough those stilettos
and put on your own shoes and. With these knees, sweetie, No
way. Oh, you could stomp it out just

(00:20):
one time, Gio, come on. No, and then I would need
crutches like it would not be cute.
I OK, we got to take care of you.
Yeah, I think it's I need more collagen in my system.

(00:49):
None. Welcome to another episode of
Graphic Content, the podcast where we talk all things who,
why, and what the fuck. Today's guest is on a mission to
shock us out of our static dailyroutines.
He is an international speaker and author, MC leadership,
thought leader, Topaz award winner.

(01:12):
I'm still going. He's been featured in Forbes
magazine and for the last almostdecade he's been the host of the
Art of Series Bill G Williams. Geo, thank you, man.
So excited to be here with you. Incredible.
Yeah, I know it's a little long,right?
Somebody needs to edit that. Somebody needs to turn that
down. No, I wrote it like I took, I

(01:33):
pulled it from so many differentplaces because I mean, obviously
the your tag line is from you, but there's I was going through
all of your, you know, I know you so I could write it easily,
but I'm going through everything.
I'm like, there is a lot of shitto put on this list.
You've been doing so much. Well, and you branded me, man.
So it's like, hello. Yeah, I appreciate that you were

(01:53):
able to find those things, 'cause that becomes our normal
life, right? Like that's just what I do
everyday and I don't think anything of it.
But when somebody else picks it up, it's like, oh, shoulders
back, chest up. Yeah, I can smile a little bit
more now. But I relate, I, I gravitate
towards energy like that becauseto me, I'm very much not that.
Listen, like I don't have much skin in the game in like the

(02:13):
grand scheme of life. But I feel like when it comes to
people who are like, yeah, I've done it, but it doesn't define
me. And that's something that I feel
like we, like, can relate on. Exactly, because if nothing
else, we have friends like you and I for each other that just
help us stay grounded. And like, girl, you're not all
that, like, just, yeah, you're ahuman being, right?
Like, first and foremost, that'sall we are as human beings.

(02:33):
And I believe, like, if you everget an e-mail from me, you know,
the signature line that I have is Maya, Angela, you know, do
the very best you can until you know better.
And when you know better, do better.
So I'm just doing the best I canevery single day.
And that's my norm. So.
So here we are. What do you want to talk about?
What has been for you, the thingthat has grounded you through
this all because you've been around the world, you've

(02:55):
travelled, you've done so many keynotes, talked to so many
people. Like I think on your website you
have like interacted with 75,000people over your career.
That's wild. Like how do you stay grounded in
that? All that I I, I find it
overwhelming. Well, and and it is so Gio, but
you know, what grounds me without question is my mother
and father, Alice Margaret Foster Williams Colon, Harold

(03:15):
Williams are up there looking down on me.
And I opened so many of my talkswith the question about my name.
And it's like I'm, you know, I'mBill Williams.
I'm Bill G Williams to be a little bit distinctive when you
look me up on LinkedIn or socialthe G there's so many Bill
Williams out there in the world.But you know, my mother wanted
to call me Billy and her friend said you can't call him Billy.
He's going to be a 62 year old man, bald like his dad.

(03:37):
And in 2025, it won't be a pro to call an old privileged gay
white man Billy. And so that's not what they put
on the birth certificate. They they put William.
So I, I'm actually William GrantWilliams, as you know, cuz you
created the slides for my presentations and keynotes.
And, but the other part of my name is where I was born.
And it's now called Thunder Bay ON right on the Lakehead,

(03:59):
Lakehead area at Lake Superior. The sleeping giant is there.
This is where Terry Fox sadly ended his his marathon of hope.
But when I was born there, it was Port Arthur and Fort
William. So I'm William Grant Williams
from Fort William, Ontario, the murder capital of the world.
But that really great. Yeah, I know Thunder Bay is
known as the murder capital of the world.

(04:20):
Check it out. There are documentaries about
it, sadly and and mostly often about our Indigenous people.
But but the point is that I'm just a small town kid from
there, you know, I really had the opportunity to grow up in
British Columbia, Kamloops, BC. But my first major job was in
this little pioneering. Can you imagine this guy
pioneering a coal mining town innortheastern British Columbia

(04:40):
called Tumblr Ridge? There were I think 3500 people
were there when I first moved there.
And basically, Gio, if you hadn't heard a rumor by 10 AM,
start one. We didn't have social media.
Like everybody know who was sleeping with who and who was
out when and where and what was happening and, you know, who
couldn't drive home because theywere too tank to drive home.

(05:01):
So at any rate, you know, we really got to know each other.
And when you have those kinds ofpeople in your life, it really
can keep you grounded. Yeah.
It'd be easy to fly off and think I'm all that in a bag of
chips. But no, no, no, I'm.
Yeah, I'm. I'm Billy Williams.
That's it. That's all that keeps me
grounded. I vibe with that so much because
I can't deal with people who buytheir own press.
Like to me, that is something that I just like, who cares?

(05:23):
Like you're human. Sure, you've done all the shit,
but which is great. Let the third parties admire it.
But question though, like going back to the humble beginnings,
like how are you managing that as a little gay person?
Like I just, I feel like that would be like I went through
that as like a small town but like I could not imagine even
smaller. How Gio you.
It's amazing. My family, we just were

(05:45):
constantly keeping up with the Joneses.
My mother, I didn't know when I was a kid, I stepped in on 2
attempted suicides. My mother was diagnosed with
depression. But then as we grew up and then
this is all before the age of 11.
As we grew up, I found out this is a whole other story.
But she was actually diagnosed with being bipolar.

(06:06):
And so that's what we refer to it as today.
But as a kid, because of my mother's depression, my father
was a bit of a workaholic. He was an electrician by trade.
So hence Electric Bill is the son of an electrician, kind of
works with the branding you created for me.
You know, dad would work 4:00 to12:12 to 8:00 and 8:00 to 4:00,
those 3 shifts. And so often we had to be quiet
as kids because dad was sleepingor dad was out at work.

(06:29):
And just wait till your father gets home.
You're in so much trouble. But really, we were the perfect
family. You know, my mother would sew us
matching shirts. Oh my gosh, how tacky is that?
But back in the 60s. That's kind of cute though.
Dressed all the same, she would knit us sweaters, and when my
sister and I would grow to the sweater, she would unravel them
and then milk make me another sweater as well.

(06:49):
So, you know, those, those grounding beginnings, Yeah, are
just really humble. And quite frankly, if I was
struggling with anything right now, more than anything else, it
is impostor syndrome. Like, who am I to sit on a stage
and interview these people or introduce these people or work
with these people in any way, shape or form?
So maybe that bit of challenge of being, you know, struggling

(07:12):
with imposter syndrome just really keeps me, me grounded.
For you to say that and listen, I know imposter syndrome has
been very much in the zeitgeist,like that conversation around
like people just it being a common thing.
But to hear somebody who has as many accolades as you, I'm like,
is there no chance for the rest of us?
Oh sure there is. Sure there is.
But I mean the other thing, Gio,is again, this little gay boy.

(07:34):
Again, I don't know when we knewthat we were gay or when I knew
that I was gay, but as a little kid I was accident prone.
And So what did my folks do for me?
They they put me in tap, jazz, ballet and baton lessons with
David Manns down at the Red RockRecreation Center.
I didn't have jazz hands, but I certainly danced in the

(07:56):
recitals. I wanted to play hockey so bad.
Bobby Orr was my hero back then,really.
And in order to play hockey, before I could play hockey,
guess what, I took figure skating lessons.
And so here's this little gay boy that didn't even know he was
gay that was doing all this stuff, playing the piano.
And so the musical thing that was there, I was in the little

(08:17):
local plays at the school and conducted the choir in school
and all that kind of stuff as well.
So yeah, my little gayness was there.
And it really, this is probably a sad moment for me, actually,
Gio, is that I didn't find out until well after my mother had
been dead for probably 20 years that she knew I was gay all
along. I never came out to my mom.
Oh shoot, how did do you mind ifI asked?

(08:38):
Like how you found out? I find out I was married to my
high school sweetheart for sevenyears.
That's, that's not what I meant.I meant how you found out that
she knew. Oh.
Yeah. Oh, that story, that's very
different. OK, Your mind back to that other
story then? So I, my dad actually came down

(09:00):
to stay with myself and my partner, then Victor, who had a
place in New York and and a place in Provincetown.
My dad came to both New York City and Provincetown with me
and I just bluntly asked him. I said dad, So what happened?
And he said, well, your mother and I had one of our classic
fights. And at the end of it, I said,
that's it. I'm packing my bags.
I'm moving to Toronto. I'm going to move in with Billy.
And my mom said to him, well, you know, you might not

(09:22):
appreciate his lifestyle. And my dad said, what?
And my mom told my dad I was gay.
And my dad actually outed me to to me, he was the one that told
me he knew because I had been influenced by others to to not
come out to actually somebody that I had an elder in my life
that I had a lot of respect for.And they said, don't ever come
out. It'll kill your mother and your

(09:43):
dad will never talk to you again.
So that fear threw me right backinto the closet and I was
leading, you know, dual life's life's, if you will.
You know, I was living my straight life with with my
family of origin and my gay lifewith my family of choice.
What are your thoughts on the the new generation where like
everybody's just out at like theage of 10?
Well, I don't know about out at the age of 10, but I got to tell

(10:03):
you what I absolutely admire is I absolutely admire when I can
see somebody who goes by the he him pronouns, but at the same
point in time is wearing heels or might, you know, put on a
skirt or is got some like flamboyant dress and stuff.
Because back in my day, if I cansay that at 62 here now, you
just didn't do that. You were going to get the crap

(10:25):
kicked out of you. Like that's, that's what's going
to happen in, you know, small town, northern Ontario,
northwestern Ontario, other places.
And even in Toronto. Back when I first moved back to
Toronto in 1990, there were still gay bashings that were
happening on the streets. You didn't want to stand out so
much. You know, we needed the the
Church Wellesley Village at thatpoint in time.

(10:45):
And if it was Hockey Night in Canada and we were sitting, we
were the stepsisters sitting outside the Second Cup on Church
St. having a coffee after the bars closed at 2:00.
There was no grinder. There was no scruff.
This was our last chance to get lucky that night and, you know,
so we'd be there. But if it was a hockey night,
you knew there were going to be eggs thrown at you.
So, you know, to have the the pride to see these people that

(11:06):
are so confident in themselves, that can just be who they are,
where they are and be damned everybody else loving it,
absolutely loving it. We got to keep up the fight.
Yeah. What's happening South of the
border for us right now? So again, we're coming to y'all
from Canada and the United States is just South of the
border. You know, T is no longer in our
acronym. It's LGB.

(11:27):
And even that, you know, they'resaying we only have two genders
in the United States of America.Are you kidding me?
Like, no, no, no. So we can't stop.
I don't think it's really any easier for anyone because we all
have our own tolerance. We all have our own ability to
recover. And, you know, every one of us
like, like I have such thrill that I see these news reports of

(11:50):
children in school right now that are talking about, you
know, hope and helping and beingkind and learning those things
because, yeah, you and I experienced the kids that
weren't so kind. And I think that if we can make
that a part of our curriculum, that that's what gives me hope
for the future. But I still get choked up.
I mean, you know, the generationabove me is pretty much gone

(12:10):
because of HIV AIDS. And so, you know, it's, it's
interesting. We there's still some elders in
the community, but now with Prepand Doxy Prep, there's so many
ways that we can take care of ourselves.
And that's just the, the, the men's side of our community.
You know, we need to look at ourwhole community.
In a previous episode, so I I spoke with a friend of mine,
Akilah, and she's a black trans woman who lives in the states.

(12:31):
You know, we're GT we want to talk about the alphabet soup.
And our whole conversation was basically around like, we know
that we're different. Like I'm white, she's black, I'm
gay, she's trans like, but at the end of the day, we don't
give a shit. We are human.
We have to all get together. And to me, the only hope that
I'm going to feel like in a realway is if these different

(12:54):
communities within the the umbrella of, you know, queer
actually stop fighting with eachother.
Like that's we're like, we need to stop that shit.
Because if we start picking at each other over our differences,
you we're defeating the purpose.Like what are we doing here, you
know? But dude, look back at the
history again. I used to love going to Montreal
Pride because their pride was called diversity.
And I was like, oh, diversity, but you're all together.

(13:15):
And Toronto's Pride, you remember what it was called when
you were probably too young for this, but Toronto's pride was
called unity. But in our unity pride, we had
the dyke March on Friday and then we had the gay parade on
Sunday. And I think there might have
been something else in there somewhere, too.
But but, you know, this unity ofall of us coming together was
actually all of us being in the silos.

(13:36):
And so, yeah, if we can't get our community together and we
want to be accepted as who we are, we got to start accepting
each other. And that's not easy.
It's really a challenge for manypeople.
And I think it's all driven by fear, which to not get, you
know, all neurosciency on you and everything like that.
But but fear is really activatesour amygdala, which is the

(13:56):
original part of our brain, which causes us to fight flight
or freeze. There's another one that's in
there now fawn as well. And when we freeze, that means
that our amygdala has been hijacked and we are not able to
use the executive functions of our brain.
That's one of the beauties I find.
If there's something that differentiates the queer
community from everybody else, we're fucking smart people.

(14:17):
Like, you know, if you look at us like we're, most of us are,
are really quite intelligent people as well.
I don't know how or why, but we just applied ourselves and we
studied maybe harder than other kids did.
Regardless, the point is that, you know, we've got to start
being stop being afraid of each other.
We got to come together just like back in the beginnings of
pride and really try to make a difference with the rest of the

(14:38):
world. I think that there has to
something to do with having duality right where there's like
that male and male feminine energy.
Like I think that it's when you're, you can tap into both
sides of that. Like anyone who knows me, like
I, I'm not the most Butch person.
Like, like I just as, as I talk with my hands, but you know what
I mean? Like it's just not.

(14:58):
And so for me, I, I feel like when you can tap into both
sides, both energies, whatever, you know, if you look at it from
maybe an esoteric standpoint, I feel like that is maybe
potentially why that is like what you're saying is true.
Yeah, well, and, and I love thatbecause you're reminding me as
you share that I worked with nuclear scientists back then it
was called AECL, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited.

(15:20):
Grateful for them because what they were creating more so than
anything else was actually treatments for cancer that they
they came up with the radiation that was an off site offshoot of
that. But the point is that these
scientists that I was working with, Geo, they were so
intimidating. I'm like, holy crap, you guys
are so smart. But you know what the majority
of them did in their free time? They created Symphony

(15:41):
orchestras. So these scientists that were so
focused on science were also focused on the arts.
And so they did have that balance and that blend.
And, and then I love if we look at our indigenous people, we're
talking about the two spirited, which is what you talked about,
the masculine and the feminine and, and we can embody that and,
and even our, you know, our lesbian sisters, you know, often
times come across as masculine, but they are women as well.

(16:01):
And so it's an interesting opportunity of what we can
actually do together and if we can solve some stuff together,
hopefully we can we can make a difference in the world some
way. On that note, so with making a
difference in the world, your whole platform is around helping
people facilitate that in their own lives.
How did you even get into that to begin with?

(16:21):
Because you know, talking originally about your, where you
come from and you know, your, your personal story with your
family, was that in any way partof how you got to where you are
today? Because like I want you to talk
a little bit about like what it is that you do and your whole
platform. So you're blowing my mind
because you were the first podcast.
I've been on so many podcasts and you're the first podcast
that I haven't seen or known thequestions in any way, shape or

(16:44):
form. And I love this totally raw,
totally naked, like you're just getting full on electric bill
here right now. And so as a little kid, I still
wanted to have a connection to my dad.
And my dad was this electrician by trade and he loved to tinker
and tamper with things. And he would go and work on the
engine of the car, change the oil if you will.
Like how Butch is that? And so Butch, I want to be Butch

(17:07):
too. And so I would swaddle right on
up there and, and I would ask questions.
And he's like, why do you have to ask so God damn many
questions? Go talk to your mother.
So off I'd get sent. But for me, it's really just
been a curiosity my, my whole life.
I've been a lifelong learner. I'm constantly, you know, it's,
it's a form of therapy for me. But I even to this point, I have

(17:27):
a guy to have a, a coach. If I'm going to be a coach, I
think that I need to have a coach myself.
I've worked with therapists for years and years and years life
coaches as well. And so it's really just being so
curious and asking so many questions, which is more about,
you know, one of my mantras today, Gio, is I'm not here for

(17:47):
you. And I do agree there's probably
many things that you and I disagree on.
But what I do want to go for is understanding.
So I will just keep asking you questions until I understand
what you think, what you feel, what makes you think or feel
that way, You know, what makes you behave in the way that you
do. And, you know, if there was one

(18:08):
thing that I would love to do asmuch as my dad was an organized
union representative of his entire career.
And, and I, I have some respect for that.
I think that unionization is only necessary because there's a
lack of good leadership. And if we had really good
ethical leadership, treated our people fairly, pay them fairly,
both genders, because again, there's still such a huge
disparity between men and women and their compensation that, you

(18:31):
know, there's, there's incredible stuff that we can do.
But for me, it's just simply about asking questions, how
people see things in a certain way, their way, and then sharing
another perspective with them. And often times, Gio, when I'm
coaching somebody, it's not evenmy perspective.
It's just a different perspective because, you know, I
have one of my micro steps is to, you know, choose your

(18:53):
balloon. And so it's a long story.
I won't tell the story, but it'sa point of, you know, if you, if
you have a perfect balloon, that's your favorite color, mine
being red. And you look at that perfect
pristine balloon and you blow itup and then for some reason the
air comes out of it. It never goes back to its
original shape. And I believe our minds are like
that as well, that if I can stretch your mind with a new

(19:14):
idea, a new perspective, it'll never go back to its original
shape. You may go back to doing what
you were doing, but you've now been impacted in some way, shape
or form. So for my leadership development
work that I do, the executive coaching work, the keynotes that
I'm delivering, I really believeit's about helping people see a
different perspective. You know, maybe walk a mile in
somebody else's shoes and just give a sense of, of what it's

(19:36):
really like to be that way. And then make choices about how
do you want to walk yourself now, you know, take off those
stilettos and put on your own shoes and.
With these knees, sweetie, No way.
Oh, you could stomp it out just one time, Gio, come on.
No, and then I would need a crutch.
Crutches like it would not be cute.
I OK, we got to take care of you.

(19:56):
Yeah, I think it's I need more collagen in my system.
But no, on a serious note, I back up everything that you say
because I truly believe that it's, you know, the expansion of
the mind is very important. And a lot of people, they don't
necessarily. Put themselves in positions or
in situations where they allow themselves to open up their

(20:17):
minds and to think differently. Because that's what we're seeing
obviously in society where people are like, they just,
they're so stuck in their, in their reality.
With all of the talk of the keynotes that you do with the
book that you've written, what is the most feedback you get
from people like what are like when it comes to what you talk
about? Like what do you, what do you
hear the most? Cuz I never really asked you
that. What I hear the most is about my

(20:37):
energy. So it's sort of like, Oh my God,
you always have so much energy. And that's why I wrote the book.
Somebody in Montreal actually challenged me this, like every
time I meet you, whether it's, you know, 6:30 in the morning or
whether it's 7:00 in the eveningafter a full day of
facilitation, or maybe you facilitated a not-for-profit
thing and it went till 10:00 at night.
You always have the same amount of energy and, and I do.
So that's the number one thing that they comment on.

(20:59):
The number two thing. I think one of my proudest
moments as a facilitator was after delivering a program, I
think it was a three day programand the person came up to me on
day three and they said, Bill, what am I going to do?
And I'm like, not sure what's the problem?
They're like, I've just learned that everything I've been doing
is wrong and what am I going to say to my people?
I'm like, well, first of all, the fact that you even came to

(21:22):
me to ask the question tells me you probably weren't doing
everything wrong. You just maybe weren't doing it
the best way that you would liketo do it.
So I would just simply go to your people now and tell them
exactly that, that, you know, I've come out of this course,
I've realized that I may not have been the best leader to
this point in time. Back to my Maya Angelou quote,
do the very best you can until you know better.
And when you know better, do better.

(21:42):
So, So what I like hearing from people is just the difference
that my life experiences was created for them.
And that is what the book is about.
It's you know, I'm when I wrote the book, I was 59 years old.
It came out on my birthday and which meant that it was the
beginning of my 60th tour aroundthe sun.
And you know, I'm not ready to die yet.

(22:03):
But well, maybe I, if I was to die tomorrow, I'd be OK with
that. I got a long time, I got a lot
of runway, but but if I was to go tomorrow, I feel really good
about the life that I've lived till now.
It's a couple of destinations I'd like to get to a couple of
people I'd like to work with yet, but but I'm OK with that.
And so I wanted to make a difference for other people by
just simply giving them another perspective that they could look
at. I like you saying the runway

(22:24):
comment. I've got a lot more runway.
No, genuinely, I've never heard that before.
And I like the visual of that, especially with the stilettos,
you know, like, come on. I love that we have multiple
runways. There's the the, the runway that
the catwalk that the the models go out on.
And then there's also the runwaythat the planes take off of to
soar, right. But either of those, whether it

(22:46):
is a man or a woman, whether it is a, a model or not, stomping
down the runway or a plane taking off, we all have that
opportunity to soar. And that's what I want for
people to do, is I just want them to be able to charge
themselves up and soar someplaceamazing.
So where did that come from? Like why is that your whole
platform is based on that? Where did that?

(23:07):
It comes from constantly having the intention to make things
better. Now, some of that was being a
little bit of a busy body. And my family had an acronym
that my mom would say around thetable and dinner table all the
time. Billy MYOB.
I don't know if they translate today or not.
Gio with your Italian? No, no, no, no, Mama.
But you know, it's mind your ownbusiness.
But I really had a hard time minding my own business.

(23:30):
And I constantly wanted to make things better for other people.
I remember being a young boy in in Kamloops, BC where after Red
Rock, born in Thunder Bay, livedin Red Rock, moved to Kamloops,
BC and The Carter Family lived around that corner from us.
And I would go over and house clean.
I'm like, what is a 1213 year old boy doing house cleaning

(23:51):
somebody else's place? I was just trying to make it
better so we could all go out and play.
Like once we get our choice done, we can go play.
So let's just make it better. And I've just been hard wired, I
guess, Gio, from the beginning of my life.
I can't imagine being a child trying to clean.
Well, again, when you're when your mom, when your mom's

(24:12):
diagnosed as depressive, right, Mom, I would come home and Gio,
it was really challenging to understand the difference
between her wailing cry and her wailing laughter.
But oftentimes I would come homeand she'd be in a very
depressive state. And so little Billy, if I can
just make things perfect, Gio, maybe mommy won't cry.
And if I make things perfect, maybe daddy will come home.

(24:33):
And so whether it's doing the dishes, washing the floor, like,
I mean, I was an adult way before I should have been an
adult or acting like an adult way before I should have been
acting like an adult. But it was always about trying
to make things better so the family could come together.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I mean, no, listen, hey, that's this real shit, right?
Like I, I don't like, I don't want, we don't need to shy away

(24:55):
from it, but. Do you have this Psychologist
here? I'm in therapy again.
Hey, if it's too much you let meknow.
Never, never bring it on. Go on, real.
No, I'm the same, honestly. Like to me, I always think
about, you know, like the thingsthat we go through as kids and
you're like, you know, oh, it's fine.
Even I said it earlier. I was like, oh, I, I, I'm fine.
And I'm like, OK, well, if I really dig into it, maybe there

(25:18):
are things I need to look into alittle further to be able to
successfully move forward or to more easily move forward in life
energetically because, you know,these things are weighing me
down for you, I guess, as you, as Bill, because you help people
to, you know, define success in their lives to achieve, try to
like, strive for success. What do you do for you that
allows you to feel like, oh, I'min alignment with what I'm

(25:40):
supposed to be doing? Oh, that's a good question.
Well, I have a couple of, you know, personal branding
statements and or, you know, purpose statements in my life,
in my business, it's pretty simple.
You know, I believe in brilliance and I'm here to help
you build your best. So whatever that is, I'm here to
help you build that in my personal life, I'm a grateful

(26:01):
champion of health and balance in body, mind and spirit.
And I live with respect and, andactually, it's funny because I
have respect engraved. I was so proud when I bought
this Tiffany dog tag and I'm like, what am I getting engraved
on? And I thought maybe I should get
like an Asian symbol engraved on.
A friend said to me like, are you Asian?
I'm like, no, but I think Asian symbols are really cool.
They're like, how would you evenknow if you got the right 1?

(26:21):
And I thought, you know what, screw it.
I'm just going to get respect engraved on this, on this dog
tag. And so the R is about my
resources. So my camera today, my
microphone today, my ear plug today.
E is everyone, but it's my family of origin.
That's where I came from. S is my spirituality.
I always want to leave more energy in the room than it had
when I came into it. E is everyone, but now it's my

(26:43):
family of choice. C is my career.
You know, I, I'm never work, butI'm always working.
I left the corporate world to start my own company 20 years
ago and it was so I could work less and make more money.
And I think there will always besomebody that I can support,
whether it's through coaching ora keynote or leadership

(27:03):
development talk or the book andthen tease my thoughts, positive
thoughts of myself and others atall times.
So for me, it's really just knowing who I am and what am I
about here and then how can I make that difference.
And so, you know, a couple of the things that you just
mentioned in asking that question are about cross the

(27:23):
river. And so that micro step, which is
in your body. Yeah, it it's like it's don't
carry somebody else's burden. Like that's not my
responsibility to carry your burden.
So let go of that stuff. How do I define success?
Well, part of it's material. I got to say, you know, I, I
certainly don't want to be living a life where I'm
struggling or, you know, God forbid, ever, you know, living
on the street. So I I do appreciate the

(27:45):
material wealth that I've been able to to create.
But for me, it's more about the quality of the relationships
that I have. And there are people that you
know, Gio, I may not see them for a year.
And what I look at is when we sit down together and whether
we're having a cup of tea, a glass of water or a great
martini, does it feel like we were together last week or do we

(28:07):
not feel connected? So for me, it's really my
success is the the quality of the relationships that I have.
And it's not even an inner or anouter circle for me.
It's just one-on-one in that very now moment.
How are we relating together? And so for us to be able to hop
on this call as friends, but at the same point in time, you
know, you're producing this, you're putting this together.

(28:29):
Can we have a good, authentic, genuine conversation?
Do I need to egoically hide shitfrom you?
No, I don't need to do that. No, I don't like that.
Being, yeah, honest, transparentand truthful with you right now
may not be great, may not be my best, but that allows me to get
better tomorrow. But what what is your best like
the vibe of this is I just want to have conversations, real

(28:49):
conversations with people that are passionate about the things
they do. Like that to me is why I'm doing
this whole thing. And so for me, I'm like, I don't
want to, I'm never trying to be that, that person.
That's like, this is how you runa business because that's not,
it doesn't make sense for me. Like I'm not doing that.
That doesn't align with who I amas a person.
And also there's millions of people that are doing that to

(29:11):
me. I want to talk about, you know,
you have a great platform, you've been, you've worked so
hard, you've created this career.
That's the shit that I, you know, and I want to talk to the
person behind it. You know, it's not like what's
your 5 point plan to like? Cuz I don't.
I honestly like it, just I don't.
Think any, yeah, nobody's reallygot it figured out.
I think a lot of people think they do where they sell that
they do. I mean, it's, I got another hit

(29:34):
by a financial advisor on LinkedIn today and they were,
I'm like, no, I'm really happy with my financial advising team.
It's like, but if, if I could, you know, show you a secret,
it's like, so ethically you want, you're trying to take me
away from somebody who I'm already happy with.
How would you feel if somebody went after all of your clients
that same way? It's like ethically, I'm telling
you, I'm connected with somebodyright now and you don't need to

(29:56):
poke into my business. So, but if they did and you're
doing this on LinkedIn. So first of all, if you're
coming to me with your sales approach on LinkedIn and that's
your sales approach, that's not a good experience.
Like that's no. So yeah, I don't think anybody's
got it figured out. I think we're all just trying to
do our best. But I think a lot of people have
to believe that they've got it all figured out for themselves.

(30:17):
And then they get anchored into that.
And that's where anger comes in because it's not working for
them, but they're holding on to that as if it's the only way to
do it because that's what everybody told them they need to
do. And let me just adjust my
glasses. No, no, you got to figure out
your own path. And that's what I want to do
with my clients is just help them figure out their own path.

(30:38):
And so my definition of coachingGeo is a vehicle used to move a
person of value from where they are to where they want to be.
I'm, I'm the vehicle, I'm, I'm literally the Stagecoach, if you
will, or the, the coach that youknow, nobility rides around in,
but you know, you, you are the person of value, the, the
coachee. And I'm here to move you from
where you are to where you want to be.
But it's a really good coach. I'm not a consultant.

(31:01):
I'm not an advisor. I'm just here to draw it out and
hold space for you to figure outwhat's the most important thing
for you to do next and how will you make that happen.
And then it's somebody you're going to be connected with a
week or two weeks later. I'm going to ask you how it
went. And if you didn't do it, there's
a little bit of accountability there.
Yeah. So.
Yeah. Listen, you and you have been a
part of me getting to the point that I'm at now in my career

(31:23):
100% because we, I mean, I've known you for three years now.
I think we met in 22. Yeah, maybe.
It was right before the book dates.
It was right before. The book came out.
So the book came out when I was 59 and I was born in 63.
So do the math. I don't know.
Girl, I'm I'm a designer. I don't do math.
Exactly. You, you make things pretty.

(31:44):
And so clearly we're not great with numbers in finance.
That's why I'm not a banker anymore.
But. It's 2022, I think, I'm pretty
sure. Yeah, there.
We go, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's about when.
And so like having worked with you like I've worked on your
brand, on your web, everything, whatever, but that's not the
point. So button, because I am helping
you create expand your brand, I've obviously absorbed a lot of
the content with through your book, which by the way, we have

(32:06):
not mentioned the title yet and I want you to say it.
So if people want to go check itout, I want to make sure you can
plug it. Thanks so much Ben.
Electric Life 12 micro steps to pay attention, be brilliant and
go deep. That's the book.
Check it out available on Indigo.
We're promoting Canada right now, today available on Indigo
and Gia will put something in somewhere so you can.

(32:27):
The show knows easily. But we'll support the Canadians,
yeah. Yes, I will do that when this
goes live through all of the, you know, reading your book,
understanding your brand, your platform, etcetera.
Like I've gotten a lot of a lot of information from you and a
lot of wisdom. And one of the things that like
out of the the microsteps you have, the 12 microsteps in your
book, the one that has stuck with me the most is fine, is not

(32:51):
a feeling. Oh, I love it.
Because and you've called me outon it where like we've hopped on
calls and you're like, how are you?
I'm like, I'm fine. And you're like, really?
Are you like after everything that you've helped?
Me put together, you're gonna say.
That I'm like, yeah, you're right.
And and I was feeling so like whatever about just the
direction I was going in and like not I wasn't really.
I was just like the rat race of like, I'm just trying to get

(33:14):
work in versus like, what are you doing or what's the what's
the approach? Are you connected to what you're
doing and the people you're working with?
And I just basically was like, girl, no, that's not the case.
And so let me shift some shit around.
And that has really sunk it in my head to like, OK, you can't
don't just feel fine about what you're doing.

(33:35):
And it brought about this, this thing.
I was like, I say this all in every episode at this point, but
it's like, I have been thinking about this for so long and I'm
like, just fucking do it. Just, and who knows.
And if it's like if it's, it's going, it's like right here.
I'm like, just just get it out. And then since I've been doing
it, I've been like, so I've, I've really been loving the

(33:56):
process and I'm so happy that I can, you know, everybody who
says yes, I'm like, Oh my God, that's crazy.
Someone said yes, like did this little thing like it's been,
I've been, it's been great. And honestly, like, you are a
part of that because I'm like, OK, I can't just feel whatever
about my life. I need to actually like, push a
little bit, you know? Well, and, and so if I can, you

(34:19):
know, shamelessly plug a little bit that this came to me when I
left my high school sweetheart. So we were married for seven
years. And from the time I was 20, I
got married at the age of 20, she was 19.
And the marriage ended at 27 years old.
And I started to take advantage of an employee assistance
program that my employer had. And so I went to therapy and the

(34:40):
therapist asked me, you know, how are you?
And I'm just like, I'm fine. She's no bill, really.
How are you? I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm fine.
She's like, no, bill, how how like, how are you?
Fine is not a feeling. And that's where people shared
with me, you know, the acronym of fine, which given the name of
the program, I can actually say it.
It stands for fucked up, insecure, neurotic and
emotional. But the emotion that I was

(35:01):
actually feeling it, that's. Too real.
That's too real. It's hitting hard.
Welcome to your life. But what I realized was I was
actually numb. I was I was numb because I cared
more about what everybody else thought of me.
Here. Here's this little gay boy from,
you know, Red Rock ON, born in Fort William that had been told

(35:22):
all the right things to do, which was a boy will marry a
girl and they will have childrenand they will go on like all
that whole story that we're fed all along.
And when I realized, and I remember with the therapist, I
actually said to her, you know, like, well, I, I've got a failed
marriage and she's like, why would you call it failed?
So another one of the micro steps is celebrate Miss Hyphen
takes. That was my first take at a

(35:43):
marriage and my next take at a long term relationship was with
a man. And so let's try something
different. But The thing is that, and what
I'd invite people to do is to, to literally just Google emotion
wheel. And so often we don't even know,
we can't even be honest with ourselves about how do I feel
right now? And so we do say fine and it is

(36:05):
not an emotion. Fine is not an emotion.
So, so go to the emotion wheel, start in the center, figure out
what you're feeling, extend it from there and extend it from
there and you can really get some good self-awareness about
what's going on in your own life.
But yeah, fine is not a feeling.And until the pain of change is
less than the pain of staying the same, Gio, we're not going
to change. You're just going to keep doing
the same shit over and over again.

(36:26):
And now, you know, again, we gotEinstein right, You know,
definition of insanity. So deal with it, deal with it,
do the work. Girl, there've been some.
Work kids. Yeah, like a bit legit.
There have been so many times inmy life where it's almost like
when you're at the precipice of evolving into a new stage of
your life and or like a new version or a new chapter,

(36:47):
whatever. Where I'm like I'm and I always
know that that's the time for meto start shifting gears a little
bit is when I'm like sick of my own shit where like I, what am
I? Why am I like remember, OK, so
you know, I'm going to have a vulnerable moment.
But do you remember when I talked to you, I think it was
almost two years ago, but when Iwas like, I'm trying to quit
smoking and I was like, I want to quit like 'cause I'm addicted

(37:10):
to nicotine. It's like a problem.
And it was like a 2 1/2 year struggle.
Like I was off and on like I couldn't quit.
And finally I can say like in mymind, like it's not just I'm
saying this. And then if where I'm like, I'm
not, I think I was just sick. I'm like, I'm sick of it.
I'm actually disgusted with myself.
And this is no, listen, if you smoke, I don't care.

(37:30):
Do you? For me also, I think it was I
made a bet with my sister because we were both kind of
like, let's we need to stop. And so we're like, we shook
hands. We're like, hey, now there's
money involved. We're like.
If you go back, but I, I actually, there was something
that shifted in my mind where I was like, I think I'm done.
I went on vacation recently, as you know, like I went away and

(37:51):
like I was around people with vapes, people with cigarettes,
blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I don't
actually, I actually don't want to do it.
And to me that's, I know that's like a very miniscule thing, but
it, it isn't right where you're like, I'm trying to, I'm sick of
the fact that I keep, I can't even just mentally stop
something like I, I. And so I feel like those moments

(38:12):
where and then I feel like, OK, I can actually make changes in
my life and, and shift towards abetter version of myself.
So you're peeling back the layers of my onion here because
you're going back and I clearly I'm the type of person that will
drop quotes and I'll drop lines and, and give credit to other
people. But you know, when you're
looking at that as far as the addiction, if you will, goes,

(38:35):
it's a really interesting sort of experience that happens with
people. And so the, the quote that I
want to drop to you here right now is to know and not to do is
really not to know. Knowledge and wisdom are two
very, very different things. So you knew that smoking was
killing you. I mean, it's a, was the number
one cause of, of lung cancer, right?

(38:55):
Smoking leads to death. You know that, but you don't
have that wisdom because you're still smoking.
It's when you actually apply theknowledge and you quit.
And again, like you said, no judgement.
If that's what people need to do, that maybe is better for
them than, you know, taking a drink or doing some other drug
or whatever it is that they may have other addictions too.

(39:15):
But the point is when we know better, we do better.
And so yeah, boy oh boy do I ever have a a loop track on
that. And I'm only saying that,
listen, I and I only say I hate that we live in a world where
everything has to be like disclaimers because everyone
will take a line and then whatever.
But I only speak for me. I'm not speaking for other
people. You do you, Boo.
Like I listen, you know what I mean?

(39:36):
Like, I don't care. Like I'm never going to judge
somebody. It's for me.
Well, and I challenge you there,Gio, I don't know about you, but
as a privileged gay white man, Ijudge fucking everybody.
It's like you are being judged right now.
The difference though is whetherwe're judge mental.
And that's where I want us to dobetter, you know?
So whether you like my shirt or don't like my shirt today,
that's a judgement. It's just a simple black cheap

(39:57):
shirt. It's no big deal.
But if you call it, oh, that's areally nice shirt or oh, you're
wearing that ugly shirt again, though, that's the judge mental
part. But our brain, we are hard
wired. We're going to judge.
So let's let's stop pretending like we don't judge.
Yes, I judge you, but I'm not going to be judge mental about
you. And in the work that I've done
with my life coaching, I've gonefrom a dichotomy of fear to the

(40:20):
far. And the opposite of fear for me
is is love. And the highest form of love is
acceptance. Can I accept Gio for who he is
right now? Now if Gio wants to get better
at at being Gio, come talk to me.
Let's say I'll ask you a few questions.
We'll figure out a few things. You're going to make some
commitments, you're going to make some plans.
You're going to be better, but I'm not judging where you came
from and nor am I judging where you want to go to.

(40:41):
I'm just here to help you get there.
And once you get there and you look around and go, this is
shitty. OK, let's go someplace else.
Yeah, that was a mistake, yeah. Oopsie, I thought I wanted to go
there. I don't actually want to go
there. This kind of conversation, like
your general message to me like on A1 on one is very palatable.
But my So what I want to know isyou work with a lot of corporate

(41:02):
clients and you work with a lot of people in corporate settings.
How do they absorb this or like what's, you know what I mean?
Because like, I can only imaginewhat it's like dealing with like
a, a boardroom of like a corporate people and talking to
them about love and, and, you know, acceptance and all these
things that we've been talking about.

(41:22):
Like how is that experience? It's evolved a lot, a lot.
And I have to be. I'll be transparent with you as
well. Of course, you know, my style
adapts to my audience because again, I've got to think about
what's my goal. And yet again, I'm a vehicle
used to move a person of value you, that boardroom, those
individuals in that boardroom from where they are to where

(41:44):
they want to get to. So, so I'm really focused on
your journey, but I'm also focused on getting you to move
from where you are, which, hey, the biggest problem we have, I'm
trying to remember which great Greek philosopher was, but it
was the enemy of the great is the good.
And when you're good and that's what you, you know, it's gotten
you to where you are and you're good.
And so how am I going to get youto be courageous, not

(42:06):
vulnerable? That's something else I would
challenge you on. You said you're going to be
vulnerable. No, you were courageous.
You exposed some of yourself to all of us here in your audience.
But. But how do we move you from
where you are? And so to part of that.
I have to without compromising who I am.
Yeah. I will adapt my behavior so that
it works with them. So, yeah, when you know, here
today with you, I'm, you know, in just a black shirt and away I

(42:28):
go. You see me hosting the art of
leadership women or the art of leadership, I'm gonna you know,
who was it Our our friend Ryan, that touch phrase for us.
What do you call it? Corporate judge?
Oh, yeah, I think it's what he called it.
It was corporate judge. And so there I am in my 3 piece
suit with my pocket square and my necktie and, you know, a
little bit of jewelry. And so that's why I come out to
them because I want to create a psychologically safe space for

(42:52):
these people to open up to me and talk to me about really what
the problem is. And once we can really identify
the true problem, now we can figure out a strategy to solve
that problem. And human beings are hard wired
to solve other people's problems.
So let's let's create that spacefor them though.
But they have to be willing to move.
I you know, I can push you, but as soon as I come, you know,

(43:13):
step away, you're going to go back to where you were.
And they must have some willingness because they're
hiring you for a reason, right? Like, it's not like you're just
coming in, no. Not always and even when they
they hire me. So I I had the honor of working
with the school board here and it was, it was in the Ontario.
I'll just leave it at that. You're in Toronto board.

(43:34):
I'm yeah, home is for me is Toronto.
But this was a school board thatwas outside of Toronto.
And I sat down. There was a challenge that they
were having in and around diversity, equity and inclusion.
And so they asked me to go and work with them.
And we watched some videos together and we saw some really
cool things and we talked about it.
But one of the points I said to them was, you know, sitting in
this room right now and looking around the room, do you

(43:54):
represent your customer base? Do you represent your
constituents? Like, does this room look like
your community? And they're like, they got real
quiet. And I said, whether it does or
doesn't today, what about five years from now?
And what about 10 years from now?
And so I really challenge you torepresent and, you know, hire
the people that look like the community that you want to serve

(44:15):
and service because that's your job.
And yeah, I won't get into the demographics of that room.
But Gio, there's no way in hell they represented their
community. A whole lot of, you know, bald
old white guys like me, so got to fix it.
I do like though, that as somebody who is preaching the
message, not preaching, sorry, Itake that back.

(44:35):
Who is saying who has the, the platform that you have?
Like, do you get any pushback based on just who you are?
Like, you know, you are a white person And like, what is that
like? Because like, I feel like if to
me, I'm like, people are so quick to just see you and say,
oh, look at this like white person saying this and I'm like,
listen to what he's saying. Like you're defeating the

(44:57):
purpose. Like you're not.
You're doing exactly what you don't want done to you, you
know? Yeah, well, you nailed it.
You absolutely nailed it. You know, and it's I have
hosted, I don't even know how many Art of Leadership women
events. And, you know, granted, I've
got, you know, I'm a very privileged white man, but I am a
gay white man. And so, but that doesn't

(45:19):
necessarily show like, even if I'm wearing a pride, you know,
or a progress pin, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm gay.
It just means I'm an ally or trying to be an ally for, for
that community. And so on that stage, I come out
every time. And so, you know, there I am in
front of 3000 people, the grand majority women, there may be 5%
men that are in the room, which is good because, you know, I

(45:41):
believe we need men to step back.
And the only way they can step back is when they see these
brilliant women that are there to do the job without question.
But the point is, I come out andI let them know, hey, I'm a
privileged gay white man. And I will not call myself an
ally because I believe that thatis something that needs to be
appointed to me by the communitythat I'm supposedly an ally for.

(46:01):
But I am an accomplice. And I am a.
Coach, and I am a champion and Iam a mentor and I'm a sponsor
and I'm a supporter. And so all of those things are
going on. And luckily for me, somehow by
the end of the day, the majorityI have won over.
But there are still a number of times on the evaluations where
they say, you know what, this was really great and Bill's

(46:23):
really good facilitator. He's a good host.
However, this event needs to have a woman hosting it.
And I am the strongest in agreement of that statement.
And the day when I host my last Art of Leadership women will be
a very sad day for me because I love those days are just out of
control. You've been to one of those you,
you met Lisa La Flem. Yeah.

(46:44):
So you were at one of those events.
And, you know, so it'll be a very sad day for me.
But Gio, it's coming sooner thanI want it to because anytime
will be too soon. But it's it's time for me to
move on from that. I believe that as privileged
white man, we need to speak up. And what I mean by that is when,
you know, Benitez just made thisgreat suggestion of something we
need to do, and we go, no, no, no, that won't work.

(47:05):
And then 10 minutes later, Joe comes along and makes the same
suggestion. We go, yeah, Joe, that's cool.
Let's do what Joe said. I'm the one that's going to say,
whoa, hold on, Joe, pause. Bonita just made that suggestion
10 minutes ago. What?
Let's go back to her and let's find out what she really thinks
about that. So we need to speak up.
And we also need to step down. And, you know, if we've been
asked to be on a focus group or a task force or lead this,

(47:27):
whatever, it's maybe time for usto say, you know what, I would
love to thank you for the compliment.
But who else can we bring up andgive them a chance to do this?
Yeah, I'll support them. I'll coach them.
I'll mentor them. But I don't need to be the one
to do it anymore. So I don't know.
That answered your question about the pushback around the
tables or not, but. But yeah, it's life.
I mean, yeah. And we're in a in AI think it's

(47:49):
like a recalibration. That's where we're at in the
society where we're recalibrating, which I'm all
about. Listen, I have vibe with you in
the same way I'm like, to me, I find women much more
interesting. Like in general, I was raised by
women. Like that is the core of who Jio
is as a man today is because of women.

(48:10):
And so whether it was friendships and like as a gay
person, you know, like I'm not, we don't need to get into it,
but I heard from my sister who did my first episode and she had
somebody who I think it was our cousin actually.
And was like, oh, the first two episodes, like we're great
because, you know, is he always going to have women on?
Like I love that of the first few are women like, and the
majority of my guests are actually women.

(48:30):
Like I think you're maybe the 3rd or 4th man.
And I'm not bashing anything like I'm just saying like, I
just find, you know, I'd much rather talk to a woman for like
having done this. Now you've been at nine years,
10 years. Yeah, probably about that.
Like I've so I was able to experience it a couple years ago
because of you, which once again, thank you.
That was a great day. It was 2 days actually.

(48:50):
How? How did you get involved in
that? Keep it to the top notes here,
if you will. But I was the head of
organization development for major corporation and one of my
vendors would sell this event called the Power Within.
And they left that event and started their own company called
The Art of with three other people, or no two other people.
At any rate. Over time, they had tried to
launch a corporate learning division within the Art of and

(49:14):
they hadn't been able to get traction or or have it take off.
And so they just met with me andasked if I'd be interested.
And I said, yeah, I would love to create a corporate learning
division for them. And I shared my vision of what
that would be. And we got started and things
went really well. And then they wrote a book with
the host of the event and the host of the event was going to

(49:34):
do a keynote on that book. And they realized, hold on a
second, we kind of shouldn't really be asking you to host the
day. And then how do you introduce
yourself? Like, how does that happen?
So, so they said, you know, Bill, you know, would you be
willing to host this, this one event?
And I'm like, oh, that's not whyI came on board here.
But if that's the job to be done, then then I'll do it.
And it just clicked. And it worked for me and for

(49:57):
them. And so now Gio, I'm literally in
the, in my introduction, I'm the, the host, the MC and the
brand ambassador for the art of leadership.
And it's an honor to have that. And I get exposed to some
incredible thought leaders and all these incredible world
leaders as well that I've had the honor of working with
Canadian and global. So it's been, it's been a really

(50:18):
cool experience. But that's how it literally
started there. Just like you go out on stage
because we're not going to. And so I started hosting the
events and I love it. Absolutely love it.
Who have you been able to connect with through these
talks? Because when I went, when you
interviewed Lisa Laflam, which to me I was like, that is very
cool. Man, I was so, I was so crushing

(50:38):
on her so much. I have had such respect for Lisa
Laflam and the day that I saw her, you know, strip out the dye
from her hair and come on with that silver hair.
I'm like, you, girl, you are beautiful.
That is gorgeous. Like yes, yes, yes.
Big time applause. And so I was just fanning over

(50:59):
her big time. So that was an honor.
Who else? I've had the opportunity to work
with the 22nd Prime Minister of Canada.
So that was Stephen Harper was on the stage with him as well
that I interviewed. I had the honor of connecting
with Malala. Like, talk about energy.
Like, I was so humbled to be in her presence.
And she's not a huge, you know, physicals person.

(51:20):
Like if you would dwarf this poor woman.
But just to be in her, her presence was like such an
incredible honor. I look at the pictures and I can
just see how humble I am in my eyes.
Vice President Joe. Sorry, no Joe Biden.
Vice President Joe Biden, then who else?
Steve Wozniak was a really cool person just dropping a bunch of.

(51:40):
Names. That was recent, yeah.
Yeah, that was in Baku, Azerbaijan.
Yeah, that was a scary experience actually.
But but it was all good in the end if Sophie Gregor Trudeau
wanted to ask all kinds of questions that I was not allowed
to ask, but I would have loved to known.
So yeah, it's I've been really blessed.
Hayley Wickenheiser, Sean Konungo.
There's so much talent here in Canada and that has been on that

(52:01):
stage. And again, just humbled to be
with them. But I just bring, you know, a
small town Northern Ontario boysperspective to the questions
that I get to ask them. Has there been a moment with
anyone in particular that you'rethat really resonates or like
sticks in your head of like, oh,this was like a a really great
moment. Really great.
Oh, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa. Yeah, that absolutely.

(52:22):
Of all the ones, I still have the magazine cover with her
sitting on my side table here, the pictures of her with my
family, like to be able to bringmy family to that as well as
like a huge thing for me. So yeah, I was definitely,
definitely crushing with Lisa big time.
Joe Biden was pretty interestingas well, 'cause he hadn't run
for U.S. President yet.
And at one point in the conversation, he stood up and

(52:44):
actually gave almost his inaugural address if he had one.
And it was like, dude, he was like 25 minutes long, running
long on time. And my job is to finish on time.
But luckily for me, a woman in the 2nd row stood up and walked
out. And that was his cue that he was
going on too long. And so she was, he was like, I'm
following her. Thank you, Vice President Biden.
Yeah. So.

(53:05):
We love someone who's self aware.
Yeah, exactly. Hello.
It should have been self aware 25 minutes ago but that's OK.
The reach that you have is very impressive.
I think that through, you know, your keynotes, through your
corporate work, through your online coaching, like all the
things that you do, you're really putting it out there in a
way that is, you know, as somebody who's in the early

(53:27):
stages of not that I have any goals to do what you do.
Like, that's not my whole my, mypoint, But I think that you
having achieved what you've doneis very impressive.
And to somebody who's like in the early stages, I can see the
blueprint of how you've approached what it is that you
do. And I can pick parts of it and
say, OK, there's these things that I want to bring into my,

(53:49):
you know, my path, my trajectoryto get me to what my version of
what it is that you're doing. And I think the biggest thing
that I pull from that, like we said before, is just the
authenticity. I think that you're, you
approach everything in a way that is so you, you know, even
your emails. And, you know, like you when you
respond to me, sometimes you're like, oh, like I'm, I'm, I'm
being me. And like, I'm just my, I mean,

(54:09):
this is my way of answering the question.
And I'm like, yeah, I know it's,you don't have to give me a
disclaimer. Like I know who you are.
It's fine. And I that's something that I
genuinely appreciate from you asa person.
Well, I thank you for that. And you're we probably are
closer to each other than you actually realize because what
you do is really peel back everything to get to the core of

(54:31):
whoever you're representing. And then graphically, you know,
as this creative that you are, you, you know, make us look
good. And that's the thing that I've
learned from you, if nothing else, is your your eye and your
talent is absolutely incredible.You know, how many projects have
we have we had together? And I was like, could you tweak
this last little bit? And you do.

(54:52):
And I go back. Yeah, No, Sir, you're right that
last week was not what was needed, but you knew exactly
what I I needed. And that's what I love about
what you do is you just really discover through your
questioning, through your probing and through your, you
know, what you put forward. You just really represented me
so well. And I'm so honored to be able to
let everybody know that all my stuff is by geographics.

(55:12):
Yeah. I appreciate it and because to
me, at the end of the day, I, like we said, like I'm all about
in this new phase of my life. If I've been about this before,
but more so now, I'm really trying to like live.
It is. I want to feel connected and
whether it's clients, friends who or clients who become
friends like you, where I'm actually understanding them, I
know who they are. It allows me to do better work.

(55:34):
I, you know, like I'm like you said, I'm in your work and in my
work. We're the conduits, like so in
so many words, to help that person. 2 Two things there, Gio,
that when you're doing the geographics work and when you're
doing this work here today, it'sthose moments where fellow MC
and host David Kelly said, you know, it's really when you can

(55:56):
get those shoulders down. Moments that when I'm
interviewing somebody on stage, sometimes they're nervous or
they're afraid. What question are they gonna ask
me? But when I get them to put their
shoulders down, I remember when I first met Lisa, she's like,
you're not gonna ask me the question, right?
I'm like, at least I've been in human resources for over 3
decades. I know you've signed a non
disclosure agreement to whateveryour settlement was.

(56:16):
And I know you cannot tell us what the reason was that you
were like, go. I will not just, well, I've been
on other interviews where they keep going.
I'm like Lisa, my job is to makesure that all the lights are
shining brightly on you is that you can deliver your best
message. And it's the same thing with
you. You get us into the shoulders
down moment where we can truly become raw and naked in front of

(56:37):
you. So you can figure out what is
the brand or what is the story? What is the question that really
needs to come across to your listeners.
And so you create that space, you hold that space for us.
And I think that's where you andI are, are really connected in
what we do, although they're very different things.
Yeah, of course. But to me, I don't.
I don't, I can't suffer fools. I don't want to have this like

(56:58):
the veneer, you know what I mean?
Like none of that matters to me.I see, listen in my field, like
I see so many Youtubers and people online who are like, this
is how you need to do branding. And this is the rules of these
are the and I'm like, Oh my God,I'm like, I don't care.
Like I I approach it the way that I want to approach it and I
have been doing fine. Yeah, we use that word a lot,

(57:23):
don't we? Yeah, it's just automatic.
But. You don't even like, yeah, I'm
doing, I'm doing. I'm happy with the direction
that I'm going in. And to me, the biggest thing is
I need to feel connection with the people that I work with, the
people in my life in all ways, shape or form.
Because otherwise, what the fuckis the point?
What are we doing? I'm not going to present the
same way that I would be like, you know, with my friends on my

(57:45):
couch talking shit. But in the way that it's like
95%, I'm presenting who I am andyou too, right?
It's about being aware of our environments and and what's
appropriate and in that environment and whether or not
we want to show up in that environment or not.
So I want to make a difference. I do want to make a difference.
And if I can again get that shoulders down so people feel

(58:05):
comfortable, I'm good to go. Good to go 100%.
So at the end of every episode, I have been asking my guests
this a recurring question. And this can go either
personally, professionally, justanything about your your
existence as Bill. What would you say is the most
on brand thing that you've ever done?

(58:29):
You know, my whole life I've lived in fear and that's,
that's, that's what it was. I was living in fear and I had
the opportunity to work with some coaches and I had this
horrendous nightmare that I'd never had before.
And it was bloody and ugly in the whole bit.
And I woke up that night and sent a message to my coach at

(58:52):
that point in time they just said write down everything
you're afraid of. And so I did.
And we had a ceremony where we burned every one of those fears.
But the the thing that came fromthat is now I really live with
almost 0 fear in my life. I'm sure there's still things
that I'm afraid of. But I mean like, I know on
Sunday I'm going with a friend and his nephew to Canada's
Wonderland on media day and I'm going to ride Leviathan.

(59:14):
I'm going to ride Behemoth. I'm going to ride the Vortex
Petrified of of those. I've swam with shark.
I have jumped off of cliffs. I did ziplining in Dominican
Republic and then it was zip anddip.
I thought, good, we're gonna do water slides.
No, we were Cliff diving off of freaking rocks.
I'm like, so really there's I'vestood in front of thousands of

(59:35):
people without any notes, without anything and I've been
told to have to stretch and fill.
And so I can't think of anythingleft that I'm afraid of.
So what is the most on brand thing that I'm doing now is
something that was off brand forso many years is that you know
what, if it's going to be what the fuck, it's like, fuck the
fear and just get out there and just do it.
And I will do my best. And that's what's on brand for

(59:58):
me. I love it, honestly.
That's great. A lot of people usually like in
the last since the beginning that there's been struggles of
like, I don't know what to say. You came up with that pretty
quick. Be good.
Less editing, less editing necessary.
I love it, yeah. Thank you for future me is
thanking you. Thank you.
Honestly, I just appreciate you so much for taking the time to

(01:00:21):
say, you know, I know you like you talk to really important
people, so for you to take time out of your schedule to talk to
me. No, but like I mean it like I, I
don't know. I just, I really much appreciate
you doing this. So that's there's my perfect
closing, then Gio, just to bringit to a close.
I really want people. One of the microsteps is to
treat people as SVI. For me, that stands for special,
valued and important. Special means that we see the

(01:00:44):
uniqueness of each and every individual that we come in
contact with. What is it that's unique about
Geo and how do I connect with Geo #2 is valued and by that I
mean appreciated. So let me articulate what I
appreciate about you. And I appreciate your talent and
your attention to detail and howyou always make me look good.
And important simply means seen and heard.

(01:01:06):
So you are important to me. I see you and I hear you and I
know the good that you want to do as well.
Dude, I'm here to support you inevery way, shape or form that I
can. Your success is my success.
My your successes aren't my successes, but that's the only
success I can have is by helpingyou get to where you want to be
and how you define success. So Gio, thank you.

(01:01:27):
Graphic content. Thank you.
I appreciate that so much. So if anybody was looking to
connect with you, buy your book,book you, how can they find you
online? 22 spots, Bill G williams.com
and or Bill at B4 group.com. You can go to b4group.com.

(01:01:49):
I'm sure it's going to show up in the comments somewhere down
there or in graphics somewhere, but that's it.
And by the way, if you need a great website created by
geographics, he created both of those.
So look at them as opportunitiesfor what he might be able to do
for you. Because he makes me look.
Damn, I'm good. Thank you.
There you go. My pleasure.
And anybody who's looking to contact me, you can reach out to

(01:02:10):
methroughgeographic.com to talk all things design or branding.
Follow the podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Instagram under
graphic content pod. I would love if you could leave
a review that would be amazing, or a comment just to like get
the algorithm going. I'm slowly getting traction and
I'm at that point now where I would love it to bump up a

(01:02:31):
little bit. So any online support is
appreciated. And Bill, once again, I want to
thank you for taking the time totalk to me today and goodbye.
Bye y'all.