May 28, 2025 • 55 mins
This week on GRAFIK CONTENT, I sit down with the Founder of the Snow Collective, Dan Snow. We discuss why hacking life can lead to personal breakthroughs, how the Snow Collective came to be, the importance of sharing values with those you do business with, differentiating expansive work from busy work, and how Dan's psychological diagnosis of my approach to work might be on the money.
🎧 Tune in for:
✔️ "Show up for yourself, B*tch" pep talks
✔️ Designing the life you want, your way, every day
✔️ Nailing how to delegate can be life-changing
✔️ How overcoming the solopreneur mindset is expansive
✔️ Going back through the Rolodex can help your future
✔️ How old-school org charts can save you today
✔️ Alleviating blind spots in business by focusing on process
🔗 Connect with Dan Snow:
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🎵 Music: Nicholas Nothing
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
She's doing the most right and I'm like, you got to fucking
relax. Just focus on what you know.
Well, yes, and I'm going to end this.
Yes. And the other thing that I have
observed about you in the momentor two that I've known you is
you find like you find comfort and security in the doing of the
work. Like if you when you don't have
(00:21):
work to do like tactical work, you get very antsy.
Gio Petrucci, you get very unsettled, which is fine.
But all this to say, like you'realso a very capable person.
So The thing is, is that you're,you're coming on here, you have
a podcast, like it's edited likelook, look how good I look by
the time this ends up live somewhere like you're, you're
(00:42):
doing it and everything that youput your mind to you accomplish
the challenge for you is lettinggo of the, the the tactical
volume for you. I think your biggest challenge
is going to like, it's going to be finding that creative partner
that you feel like just gets youand then you'll be able to
offload more. But it's going to be, I still
feel you're going to be very uncomfortable.
(01:03):
Look at the look on your face. I.
Know it's true, it's I'll. Describe it to you in detail.
He looks both amused and very guilty all at the same time.
Yeah, if you want to see what I look like, go to YouTube.
(01:40):
Welcome to another episode of Graphic Content, the podcast
where we talk all things who, why, and what the fuck.
Today's guest. Your summary's like, quite
expansive, but I had. So to sum it up, it was a task.
I spent like 20 minutes trying to figure out what the hell I
wanted to say. You could have just chat she PT
D that. I know, but I wanted it to be
from. A bio from the heart.
(02:02):
Yes, exactly. OK, so tell me what you think of
this as I say it live with almost 20 years experience.
Today's guest started his careerin agency creating strategies
for Nissan, Visa and Molson, which in turn led him to being
the Director of Marketing for the Canadian LGBT Plus Chamber
of Commerce and eventually today2025, becoming the founder of
(02:27):
the snow collective Dan Snow. Thoughts.
Now the crowd went wild. You just can't hear it in the
background of my microphone. But that was all of those things
have happened and it was very enthusiastic, so I appreciate
all of that. Listen, we can look back on our
lives in in not so enthusiastic ways, but at the end of the day,
(02:50):
the amount of things that your LinkedIn profile lists that
you've done quite a bit. Yeah, I guess I've been.
I've been busy. I suppose it's a busy girl.
I've been, I've been busy. As I was just saying to you, I
was just listening to our Listento Me podcast that we did five
years ago now. And yeah, thankfully we're just
(03:11):
getting younger and fresher every day.
Yeah, it's just it's like it's always interesting to take a
moment and take stock of your own journey because we're not
always invited to do it very frequently.
So yeah, there have been some things to say the least.
Yeah. And and the two of us have been
working together for how many ofthose years?
(03:34):
Well, according to our last podcast, it would now be 7/7.
Years yeah it's it's flown by but we've and we've been able to
accomplish a lot together mostlyyou doing the pushing but.
I mean, it's like someone's got to push, someone's got to pull,
and you're pulling those designsthrough like a champion.
So I mean, you know, we, we tag team this bad boy.
(03:55):
Both of us having started in agency, we kind of got the
ground like the foundation of what who we are today in our
early years. And one of the things that we
connected on in the beginning was how we wanted to leave
certain things behind, I guess is what I want to say.
I want to dig into a little bit about like what it is that LED
you to doing the Snow Collectivebecause there's that the early
(04:18):
story that was like, OK, what? What would you call it?
The like in like comic books? It's the OR like the epilogue.
Yeah. Or like the what is it your
villain? Like what is it called?
What am I thinking of my villainera?
No like. What have I had that yet the.
Thing that like has like your, your origin story, your.
Origin. Oh, my origin.
(04:39):
There you go. My origin story.
Yeah, effectively my background was, is is an ad agency is
Adland, as I call it. I started in market research
when I was 19 years old and likestill going to college and
working focus groups at night. And then that led to exposure to
ad agencies. And that's what I thought I
(05:00):
wanted to do was to work at ad agencies and be an ad executive,
whatever that means, and go and live that, you know, Highline
lifestyle. And then I did it and there was
a bit of a different brand projected for agency life than
reality. And so after I busted my chops
(05:24):
and had my ass kicked a bunch oftimes and learned a whole lot
and did amazing things and met wonderful people, like there was
a lot of really good as well, ofcourse.
But yeah, it just wasn't the culture and environment for me.
So I figured, you know, if none of these people are going to
create it, then I guess the I probably should.
And that was like 10. I mean, I registered the company
(05:45):
13 years ago now. Listen, as somebody who has
worked with you for so many years, I am 100% an advocate for
the approach to leadership that you have taken because I've
worked on both sides. So I can, you know, I have, I
know that before and after lookslike for me anyway, and the way
that you approach leading a teambecause you know, and I want to
(06:09):
discuss like the intricacies of what how you formed the snow
collective. But to me, as somebody who's
been a part of it now for almosta decade, which is crazy, I know
it's. When you say it that way, Gio,
it makes us sound very old, and I don't know that I care for
that, but we'll let it slide this time.
But sounding and looking, you know, whatever.
Very different. Yeah.
(06:33):
No, see, we, we don't dabble in those.
Well, I don't anymore, but but no, the way you approach, the
way you approach it is to me is moving away from, I know this
sounds so silly, but this like dictator style like I found like
working in that where it was so tough to work in that fast-paced
environment. Whereas we work in a way that
(06:56):
there's, you know, we have deadlines, we have work that we
have to get done, clients that we need to service.
But at the end of the day, there's respect.
Everything gets done in the end and there's open communication
where we usually are leaving meetings, calls, etcetera, with
smiles on our faces. And that is in no way trying to
sound like Teletubby bullshit. Like it's.
(07:18):
You. Know what I mean?
Like it's real And so how do youapproach that?
I feel that my approach is this term that keeps coming up around
me recently, which is like servitude leadership, which the
whole idea is, is that if you want your team to generate the
best results, they need to feel the best that they possibly can.
(07:39):
And your job as a leader is to give them the tools to give them
the path, the instructions, the guidebook and the support in
order to do it. As we've discussed in the past,
for me, it's about like we weren't living in choice in AD
land. And I know that that's not
exclusive to advertising agencies.
A lot of people have jobs regardless of what it is that
(07:59):
you do where you feel like you're allocated work and you're
allocated A-Team. And so for me that, and that
wasn't that never fit. And so when I created the Snow
Collective, it was about enabling people to thrive.
And, and so I really try to serve my team and my clients in
the best way that I can, sometimes in my own expense.
(08:22):
But it's just about being a people person first, I think,
and not letting like, revenue orprofits or like venture
capitalists or like external growth forces dilute what it is
that you're there to do, which is to help make people's lives
better by having jobs and deliverables that are good and
(08:45):
positive and rewarding. I will say your approach to, you
know, how you run the snow collective has shown me as
somebody who has been in an environment where, and you know
what, even with clients like in the past where I've worked with
people that are not respectful, are just hard to work with in
their own way. And you've shed some light on me
(09:07):
feeling like I can actually ask for more or like I feel like I,
I actually deserve better treatment or I don't need to
take, you know, a, a certain client's bullshit.
Yeah, 'cause I, I don't operate in that way.
And so it has really allowed me to like, be honestly the person
that I am today and both personally and professionally.
(09:29):
So, you know, I thank you for that.
Oh, that's no, I, that's beautiful.
Thank you for saying so. I I appreciate that.
And and it goes back and, you know, and I have these moments
in my mind of experiences that you and I have had together
where, you know, a client who was brought into the team late,
like made some belligerent comment.
And I was like, yeah, no, we're,we're not going to work with you
(09:49):
anymore. Like that's how you're going to
treat us. Like goodbye.
And and, you know, we go back tothe comment about choice, I
think to a client that we shared.
You weren't on this call, but the client asked me.
I asked. I was running a marketing team.
Let me Zoom out. I was running a marketing team
at a company as an external leader.
You were running the creative team.
(10:11):
And so I was asking one of the members of the creative team for
a document. And she was like, when do you
want that? And I was like, will you tell
me, like, what? When can you comfortably commit
to having that to me? And she and her boss were both
on a call and they both just like stopped and stared at me
through Zoom. And I could see that they were
surprised that I didn't give hera deadline.
And I was like, well, I have no visibility into what is on your
(10:35):
desk outside of what I've asked you for.
I don't know what your capacity is right now.
This doesn't have like a drop dead date.
So like, I'm gonna invite you togive me a deadline.
And they like both their brains broke.
Like if it's just something to behold in the moment and it it's
those clarifying moments where you're like, yeah, the culture
(10:56):
that we have is way better. It is honestly the fact that
like we don't work with a lot ofpeople that are militant, like
they're, they understand that weare our own entity as a group
and you know, we eventually we get everything done that needs
to get done. And so we kind of tell people
like, this is how we operate. The relationships we have with
our clients are so like copacetic, you know what I mean?
(11:17):
Like they work so well together because it's like, listen, we're
not, we're not feeding starving children, you know what I mean?
Like we're so like, it's all good.
It'll get done. And I, I to me, I feel like this
is going to, on a selfish note, like, or a way to kind of, you
know, I center myself in this ina little bit, is that it's
allowing me to realize that as Igo through life, the expectation
(11:40):
that I have is elevated when it comes to personal and
professional. The world is already hard
enough. Like, why do we have?
Why does work have to suck as well?
Yeah. We live in this beautiful
capitalistic society in this economy.
Like we got to work, as Britney would say, bitch, better work.
And so, yeah, it's one of these pieces where it goes back to, I
(12:03):
think of like in college when you had group projects and you
like picked your favorite peopleand got to collaborate and, you
know, when you knew who was going to be strong in the sway
and who was going to be weaker in another.
And you like distributed. And I feel like this is like the
grown up version that where like, yeah, we have deadlines,
we have accountability, we have systems and processes and like
we have to. And the other piece is, is that
we treat each other like people and we expect our client like,
(12:25):
and we treat our clients like human beings and we expect the
same of them. So, you know, life happens.
And in the last 12 to 16 months,a lot of life has happened.
And the other thing that, you know, allows us to sustain this
culture is we work with clients who are like, oh, you have this
thing going on or the power justwent out for two days or, you
(12:46):
know, nine people in your immediate family just died.
Like go and take the time that you need.
I'm like, we'll, you know, like they, that's the other pieces
that we, I find that the big change that we've created and
sustained is that we work with clients who are human beings
first and business owners 2nd. And that enables us to also have
(13:07):
that tone within our own organization.
Because if we were fighting external forces to be robots all
the time, then it's going to seep in.
So it's finding those clients that share the same values of
people, of other human beings. 100%, You know, I mentioned at
the top of the show that you hadworked with the CGLCC.
As you know, this is how we met.I did a mentorship through the
(13:28):
Young Entrepreneurs Mentorship program back in 2019.
And I had a mentor who the one thing I retained was, and he
said to me, his name is Charles McKee.
And he was like, you want to make sure that you operate your
business the way that you operate as a person.
And that to me was such an impactful statement because in
(13:51):
my, you know, when you're young,like, and I was only a couple
years into geographic at the time, like I was now I, I just
hit eight years and I was yes, thank you that.
Was me applauding to the listeners.
All 10 of them, but but no, like, and you know, you're in
your early stage career and you're like, I have to be this
(14:13):
and I need to do that and I needto you know, and, and I was it
was very freeing for me because I was in my mind thinking, I
have to be this like specific individual like, and I'm like, I
I don't even that doesn't resonate with me.
What and for him to say that andsomebody who, you know, I
respected because he he's been in it for years and I was like,
(14:34):
Hey, this person has lived a very successful life personally,
professionally, etcetera. I don't need to be afraid to be
myself and to step into, you know, who Jio is, both as a as a
creative and as, you know, the human being.
Yeah, absolutely. And to build off of that, the
theme that I'm continuing to learn is don't sell yourself
(14:55):
short when it comes to asking for help.
Once we establish ourselves as our authentic selves within our
businesses and we start living that, it takes practice and it's
still always an evolution. And yes, absolutely.
And that's what's enabled the Snow Collector to exist and to
grow and to be successful. And the other thing that I
(15:17):
learned in that is like, OK, once I authentically know who I
am, I also now can't like sell myself short or play small or
think that, you know, this person's so much more senior
than me or they have such their business is much bigger than
mine. And so for me, the other bookend
to that is like, now that I knowwho I am and how I want to show
up and like what my values are now, how do I bring that to
(15:38):
people who I put on a pedestal so that I can be like, hey, look
at what I'm doing and what our team is doing and what we're
accomplishing? Like, can you support us?
Would would you be willing to and how could you?
And so for me, that's been like the extension of that know
myself journey and like know my worth.
And now I have to action it by like showing up for myself and
saying I am valuable. We are valuable.
(16:00):
Would you be willing to help make us better?
And that's where my push has been recently.
Genuinely curious but like what got you there?
Because that's not an easy transition or like, you know,
evolution, because we can't justsay like, I got this bitch and
I'm going to fucking show up andwhatever.
Like it's just, it's not, you can't just do that.
And if you do, great. But I'm I'm not the one, you
(16:21):
know. I mean, I'm a huge proponent of
coaching and therapists and leadership coaches and all of
this awesomeness. It's no secret because it's made
a huge difference in my life andmy business.
But like, my life has shifted a lot because of the perspective
that I've gotten from great coaches.
And so I was talking to Val. Valerie Hall Little is my
(16:43):
leadership coach. She's amazing.
We've been working together for five years now.
Maybe this is our 6th. And so the conversation I was
having with Val is like, I need,I'm so in operations, I'm
running things, I need support. And she sat back and said, like,
OK, who are the people in your career who have exemplified what
you want to be in a chain and anoperations leader, like, who did
(17:07):
it really well? Who inspires you when you think
of excellence, Like, who comes to your mind?
And so I went through my, you know, career Rolodex.
And I said, you know, Jenny Simpson, we worked together at
TBWA. She was my boss.
She ran the digital department. She was like, restructuring $30
million ad agencies globally. Like, she's a boss.
(17:27):
And then Val was like, how wouldit feel to pick up the phone or
call her and have a conversationwith her about how, you know,
she could support or pick her brain or whatever?
And I probably hadn't talked, like talked to Jenny in like 10
years, probably hadn't seen her in a decade.
And so we ended up getting on a call and reconnecting.
And I told her where I wanted togo with the snow collective and
(17:48):
the challenges that I was facing.
And that turned into dinner, which turned into me being like,
do you wanna come in as a fractional chief operating
officer? Like, the story I'm telling
myself is like, you're too experienced and you're too
expensive. And, you know, and she came and
said, like, these are the kind of projects I don't get asked to
do very often. And I love them.
And I would love to come in and help.
(18:09):
And so for me, it's just about getting that an initial push
from someone who can take you out of your own internal
narrative. And then once Jenny said yes, I
went and I asked a sales leader,Linda Kern, who's coming in to
help it with sales. And then I we're bringing in a
fractional CFO. So now I'm like addicted to
asking really good people for help and they keep saying yes.
(18:31):
So I'm like amazing momentum. Momentum and I think it's also
like you said, it's a shift in how you see yourself, you know
what I mean? Because I for the longest time,
you know, it's like that same bullshit, like I'm not worthy,
I'm not good enough, I'm not this blah, blah.
Like the thing that everybody talks about, yes, but really
like that when you get that switch in your head of let's
(18:53):
just see what happens, you know what I mean?
Like let's just not be afraid. And I feel like as a collective,
you know, no pun intended, when we started the year, like we
kind of as a group talked about,OK, what are we doing?
How do we want to evolve? And both all individually and as
a group with you obviously leading that conversation, That
(19:14):
has definitely rubbed off on me because even in my own journey,
I'm like, I just, I don't wanna go.
I don't wanna be scared to, to do or ask for what I want and go
for it because I played so smallin the first chunk of my career.
And I'm like, you know what? No, like, I'm not.
I'm, you know, I'm on this side of 35.
It's time. It's time to pull up my
(19:35):
bootstraps and not be scared. And if we grown now, if we're
not, if we're not grown yet? Oh my God, I know right?
It's so true. But the idea of expansion has
been top of mind for the last like 8 months, six months.
And that has definitely been thecase with snow.
And I feel like you're initiative for this year is to
(19:57):
expand, talk to me a little bit about that process and like
where you see the agency going. Oh, OK.
We've really honed in on who it is that we want to service,
which are businesses that are inwhat I love to call unsexy
industries. So infrastructure manufacturing
(20:17):
like technology infrastructure where everything from janitorial
services to micro metal recycling to chemical creation,
like we're in the non consumer space.
And so what's great is we get toknow these really interesting
businesses. They all have sales teams and
their sales teams are the ones who are facilitating all the
transactions. So we get to work like with
(20:39):
sales teams in these businesses that are very complicated and
interesting and long tail transaction cycles.
And so as we really honed in there, there's just more
opportunity for us to work with them in more involved ways.
And So what that means is, is growing the snow collective so
that we can be external marketing departments for larger
(21:03):
clients. And effectively to do that, I
need more help and I need to do a bunch of shit that I haven't
done before. And everything is so nuanced,
like finance, cash flow management and tax preparation
and sheltering. And like that is a world and a
science and a career unto itselfand operations like it's all
(21:28):
these are all so integral, nuanced, complex systems that a
business needs to function. And I think that I've been in
that like solopreneur mindset ofso long, we're like, I can do
it. I can figure it out.
Like I can do it. And then you get to a point
where you're like, not only can I not do this as effectively as
(21:50):
somebody else who is an expert in this can like also like I'm
fucking tired. Like we've been doing this.
We're you and I are seven years in now.
Like I don't want to create something from scratch and
stress test it and break it 96 times and fix it again.
Like I want someone who can comein and who's like, here's point
A here's point zeds here are allof the 24 steps in between like
(22:11):
go. And I think part of it is really
understanding our own capacity and our own skill set and, and
having the maturity to say like I am in the, I'm in like have
big enough boots to ask for helpin these areas.
You're moving a bit quicker thanI am in that regard.
(22:33):
And it's, it's admirable to me because I, I see you getting
help expanding. I'm still like, I'm, I'm having
a hard time snapping out of thatsolo entrepreneur mindset where
to me, I'm like a type and it's,it's actually a detriment.
I'm like, I can do everything. I can do it all.
And I'm like, actually, bitch, no, you can't.
(22:56):
It's it's becoming so difficult.Yeah, it may be easier for me
because I come from an account side background where I was
running the business and the strategy.
But like I always feel like I can't execute anything.
Like I can't draw a picture, like I can't, like I can't
finesse a copy deck. I mean, I can't draw the
picture. I can finesse a copy deck, but
(23:17):
it's not gonna be as good, right?
So for me it was an easier mental shift to be like, I need
a designer like I need a like, Ineed a web developer like I
don't write code, you know what I mean?
So my background was having a team around me to execute where
as folks who can execute. Then the question is, is well,
(23:38):
where do I need the external support?
You know what I mean? You're looking at 1 discipline
and I'm looking at like 9-9. I can appreciate why it's less,
I don't know. I guess the word I'll use is
obvious of where expansion opportunities are.
It's like we talked about the idea of like busy work versus
expansive work. And I'm very much the type who I
(24:01):
will try to do everything because I, you know, I'm just
the type of person that I want to also like learn.
So things that will actually benefit me, like, you know,
having many bows in my quiver orwhatever it's called.
So much quivering. I'm excited.
I just this picture in the feathers like shaking in the
(24:24):
background as you walk down the the RuPaul's Drag Race
mainstage. Oh my God, Paprika, I'm making
her debut. My God, the peacocking yes, but
but no, like having a bunch of skills that I I liked.
You know, even with this process, like I'm learning video
editing, I'm doing audio, whatever, it comes to a point
where I'm like, this is actuallyI just need to kind of refine
(24:46):
the skills that I currently havethat exist and not try to add so
many more because it's taking away from, it's like, what is
the master of none? What's that saying?
Oh yeah, Jack of all trades, master of none, Yeah.
Exactly, that's how right, That's sometimes how I feel and
I'm like, I'm trying to, she's doing the most right.
And I'm like, you got to fuckingrelax.
(25:08):
Just focus on what you know. Well, yes, and I'm going to and
yes. And the other thing that I have
observed about you in the momentor two that I've known you is
you find like you find comfort and security in the doing of the
work. Like if you when you don't have
work to do like tactical work, you get very antsy.
(25:31):
Gio Petrucci, you get very unsettled, which is fine.
But all this to say, like you'realso a very capable person.
So The thing is, is that you're,you're coming on here, you have
a podcast, like it's edited, like, look, look how good I look
by the time this ends up live somewhere like you're, you're
doing it and everything that youput your mind to you accomplish.
(25:51):
The challenge for you is lettinggo of the, the, the tactical
volume because you love it the way that like you want it done
and because they're cash flow implications and profitability
implications. And you need volume to do that.
So like between the two, it's challenging.
But for you, I think your biggest challenge is going to
(26:11):
like, it's going to be finding that creative partner that you
feel like just gets you and thenyou'll be able to offload more.
But it's going to be. I still feel you're going to be
very uncomfortable. Well, yeah, you don't have all
of the tactical work to do yourself.
Look at the look on your face. I.
Know it's true. It's.
Idiotic. I'll describe it to you in
detail. He looks both amused and very
(26:32):
guilty all at the same time. Yeah, if you want to see what I
look like, go to YouTube. But no honestly, I agree with
you 100% Like I'm I am. I can admit where my
shortcomings, let's say not thatit's a shortcoming, but no, I
just I'm self aware. I know that that's, you know,
it's like I've created this thing for almost 10 years, so
(26:56):
now I gotta let it go. And like, that's the part that
freaks me out because and I can,I can learn a lot from you.
It's just I, I don't know, like you, you hit it on the head
where I have a lot of issues around productivity or like the
illusion of productivity when I'm busy, I feel valid and
(27:16):
valued. And that is, that is a fucked up
approach to existing. Like I've said before, like I
now that not that this is we're trying to get into like therapy
session with Geo, but it's like,I feel like it's very, the lines
are blurred for me when it comesto Geo and geographic.
And it's so funny because like my parents have run a
(27:37):
construction company for 30 years.
It was always like, Jomer was like the 6th Spice Girl, you
know what I mean? Like there was the 6th, the 6th
member of the family, like this overlord that governed
everything that we did. And I would always get so upset
because it was like Jomar took so much precedence.
And like, my dad had this, this weird relationship with the
business where it's like he couldn't really separate
(27:59):
himself. And I'm, I am so much more like
my father than I, you know, I used to make fun of it, but now
I'm like, I'm, it's like a weirdcyclical prophecy.
Like it's, it's, it's interesting, but I'm definitely
aware of it. And I'm like, I gotta cut this
shit, you know? So any tips?
I'll take them. Hey, it all just takes
opportunity and practice. That's all it.
(28:21):
Yeah. It's just about pushing through.
And that's what I've learned is that like, it's just about
pushing through and trying the thing, you know, delegation,
whatever that thing is, and thenreminding yourself when you
catch yourself breaking the rule.
Like for me, it's, you know, I'mone of my goals is to
completely, I'm trying to designmyself out of my business.
Like I'm trying to like literally remove myself
(28:42):
completely because all I do is create roadblocks.
And so for me, it's things like a client replies to an e-mail.
Is it even addressed to me? Probably not.
Do I know what the answer is? And do I want to reply right
away? And like, will I catch myself
halfway through writing a reply?And it's not my job to reply and
then stop and be like, hey, Dan,whose job is it to reply to this
e-mail? Is it yours?
(29:03):
Are you the director of client service?
No, you're not. So delete this e-mail and go
back to your day. And so for me, it's also that
exercise of catching myself in that moment of like overstepping
or undoing the delegation. That's something I'm good at is
like undoing it. And, and it's about noticing it
in that moment and then like stopping the behavior.
(29:24):
And then it gets easier over time.
You have a knack at putting the right people in the right
places. You know, once again, something
I can learn from you is looking at the like the actual
collective that you put together.
You find the right people or theright like lanes to me that that
is a talent unto itself. There's an art to that because
(29:45):
you're putting together a group of people who we all work very
well together, like truly. And so is there like, what is
your approach been like, I know we talked about like 5 people
before business, but yeah, what is how do you actually approach
it? Cuz like that to me is something
that a lot of people can learn from because people hire people
and they're like, what The Who is this person?
What am I doing? Yeah.
(30:07):
And I've had those too as well where I've like brought on
partners as we call them becauseso the Snow collective I guess,
I guess let's explain the business so that people know
what we're talking about. So the Snow Collective is a full
service marketing agency and we do not have employees, we do not
have an office. We are a group of business
(30:29):
owners, consultants, freelancerswho all come together under the
Snow Collective brand. So we operate as a team.
We have status calls every Monday, we have monthly
peer-to-peer meetings like we operate as if we are all
employed, if you will, within the same organization.
But The thing is that everyone is a contractor.
And so we're a core team of, I mean, there are what, 10 of us
(30:53):
on status every week now, 10 or 11 of us.
And then in the background between like coaches and finance
and leadership, we probably haveanother six.
So we're say we're 15 to 17 right now.
And so for me, there is the tactical part of figuring out
who I need when. And the exercise that I did that
worked really well was I, I tooklike a good old fashioned org
(31:15):
chart with one of my coaches with all of the roles that
operate within a business. And then my job was to put the
people's names in and their roles.
And then every role I was doing,I put my name in as the founder.
So by then I was running operations and I was running
finance and then I was running. So you literally put your own
name in red all over the org chart so that you can see all
(31:39):
the things that you are doing because you're doing too many
things by default because you'rerunning a business.
And then what you do is you go through and you prioritize which
one of those roles you're takingoff yourself first.
So for me, it was finance because I can fuck up invoicing
faster than I can tie my shoes. Yeah, you're beautiful.
(32:02):
It's a real asset. Yeah.
Thank you. The shoe, the shoes I have
nailed. Yes.
The delegation. Finance.
Finance I thankfully I'm also nailing, but so for me, like my
first one was finance. I hired an external financial
team. Now we have a controller and a
cash flow guide. I'll call her for lack of a
better term. And now I'm bringing in a chief
(32:22):
financial officer to help integrate finance with
operations. So from building it like when
you're building your business, the org chart exercise for me
was invaluable. And then it's sort of like, OK,
now finance is done. Now I can't run operations
anymore because it's taking up too much time.
So that's the next person that Ibrought in.
You know, Jenny, Fast forward and we have in now use the org
(32:42):
chart from a tactical perspective.
And then with people like it's all, I mean, I don't really know
what to tell you other than it'sall instinct.
Like there are a lot of different assessments,
personality assessments out there to help gauge like folks
who don't have the opportunity to bring in like a referral or
someone from their network. I usually tap my network and
bring people in. But yeah, a lot of it's just
(33:06):
honest conversation, seeing the work.
Like I've learned that don't take anyone for granted.
See the work first and then bring them in.
Even if they're really nice and you really like them, even
though they're a lovely person, they have to be able to produce.
And then it's just, yeah, it's achemistry read.
Honestly, I think is like a large part of it.
I agree with you with the chemistry thing.
(33:28):
That to me is always number one.I like even in my day-to-day
life, like I'm very I'm I'm a very personable human being.
Like I can make friends easily and but as.
Rita bitch at the bar really quickly.
You got like all facets of that.Only if they deserve it.
(33:49):
Only you know you're gonna pull out your Dominique Jackson
moment like a champion. But.
I love her, but truly like I feel the the sensing of energy,
like as not to sound woo woo, but I know like you and I go
into those conversations from time to time.
That is like key. I feel like especially as we're
moving into an era of society where where if we are really
(34:10):
going to leave these structures behind, your approach to running
a business, your approach to just being a person, like I find
you are a very commutative individual.
That's just important. We need that in this new stage
of our reality because, as we see, the old way is not working.
Yeah. And I feel just to zoom out from
(34:31):
just the business because we areprimarily humans in this world
before anything else. Yeah, it's interesting because I
feel that they're people are becoming more insular after
COVID. Again, it was so interesting
listening to our podcast. We recorded that in October of
2020. So we were the first six months
into COVID and now, of course COVID has changed and we don't
(34:54):
live in lockdown and we know what the fuck happened.
I mean, we don't know what happened, but as much as we ever
will, I'm. Still processing it.
Yeah, we'll figure it out in 20 years.
It'll be a future therapy bill. But I feel that the world has
just become a lot more insular. Like I've always run a virtual
business. So a part of the challenge of
running a virtual business is that you don't connect with
(35:14):
people physically. And so creating a business where
we have space carved out, like our monthly peer-to-peer meeting
that I was mentioning, you know,where every month we get
together, we bring the team in and we, I facilitate a
conversation that isn't about the snow collective and our work
and our business. It's about the people on the
call. And like how firstly, how are
(35:35):
you like as a human and as as a business and as a business like
personal professional, how are you, what are your wins?
What are your challenges? Where do you need help right
now? So creating these placeholders
for regular communication that aren't just about us as like or
the snow collective, I should say, it's all about us.
(35:56):
It's not about the business. I think it's just another way to
pull us out of like this insularkind of digital time that we're
in right now. You know, as networking becomes
a thing again and people like resocialize.
So yeah, it's been important to build community, even if we
can't be in the same physical space together.
(36:19):
Yeah, I, I love what I do. We love what we do, but it's
sometimes nice to just like, like you said, connect as a
person Cuz to me, I'm, I, you know, I work with these nine
other people on a regular basis,some more than others.
Yeah. And it's nice to know, you know,
what are you, what is going on with you in your life?
How are you doing? And I think a lot of people went
two ways after COVID on because you brought it up.
(36:42):
Yeah, people went more closed off.
And then there's some people that were like, OK, let's leave
all the like fear and the disconnect that was experienced
during that time behind because,you know, with a nice balance,
because you can't, you're not going to strike the perfect
balance of I am social, but I'm not.
And like to me, I, I actually appreciate my alone time a lot
(37:02):
more than I did before. As somebody who's like, I'm
social. I I love people Now I'm like, I
don't need them as much in person.
Yeah, no, I can relate to that. And I think about in my 20s when
I would, like, work all day and then go to an event at night and
then go meet friends for drinks and then get up and go to a
breakfast meeting at 8:15 and then go work a day in and go
like, I look at like, what my schedule used to be.
(37:23):
I'm like, how was I alive? Like, how did I do that?
And, you know, yesterday I had three different meetings in
three different cities and, you know, drove in a snowstorm and
today I'm like, I'm going to chill.
Like it's none. Of this.
It's being aware of what our actual sustainable tempos are
too. And again, and that's what's
(37:44):
nice too about the digital piece.
I loved being in my clients office yesterday.
It's one of our largest clients.It is our largest client like
Chiu and I work on them. They're fabulous just to be
around. So it was great to be in the
office and just to be with the team.
And at the same time, it's nice that we can just like we have
systems to just rock up on Zoom,be together, you know, the
(38:04):
accessibility pieces there, evenif you're not physically
accessible. And it's and like it's about the
balance. Because I know you had said you
were moving into like the US like that's this is this new
frontier, Has that been part of that movement or that
initiative? The movement into the US is
honestly just my frustration outof 2024 and like the complete
(38:26):
inertia that seemed to be happening in so many business
environments in Canada. And the fact that we are so in
like a state of stasis watching what political environments will
do, especially political environments are are not ours.
And like, obviously there's impact.
You know, right now as we're recording this, it's April 2025
and the trade wars are happening.
(38:50):
You know, that's our our hot seat of the moment, our hot
topic of the moment. And so all this to say, I just
got tired of like trying to findnew business and going to events
and people be like, what do you think's going to happen next
year? I'm like, I want to know what's
going to happen this quarter? Like are you doing anything like
we need we want to move. So all this to say, like I've
(39:11):
worked in the USA lot heavily before.
You know, the other feedback I get from agency owners is that
the sales cycle is shorter, thatthe touch points are lesser.
Like it's just an easier environment with a larger
market. There are just more businesses
there that make over $20 millionthan there are in Canada.
Like it's the market sizes there.
(39:33):
So from a like a tactical perspective, it makes sense.
And I hear a lot of people having success as we are also a
values based organization. The other reason why I want to
do it is because I see what's happening there politically and
we right now are specifically reaching out to female owned,
LGBTQ owned, minority owned businesses in the US within the
(39:58):
industries that we specialize inthat I mentioned earlier.
Who are keeping DEI initiatives,who are keeping their
environmental sustainability initiatives.
So like what I want to do is go in and help the companies that
are minority LED, who are fighting against the man,
whatever we want to call it. And they're fighting for the
(40:19):
same values that we believe in. And the other thing is, is that
the more that the US isolates itself, the more the more easily
it's going to be able to become a dictatorship, right?
Like, if everyone hates America and we don't talk to them
because they're American, then it's easier for their political
people to go and make really negative change.
(40:40):
And so while so many people are like, fuck the US, like booing
at them at hockey games, like, yeah, we're pissed about what's
happening in the government thatthey voted in.
Great. But also like turning them into
pariahs and like, no, you can't sit with us is not going to
solve any problems or make the situation better.
So yeah, it's it's transaction cycle and availability to do
(41:02):
business. It's supporting businesses that
are holding strong on their values, and it's building
bridges where a lot of people are just burning them.
It's a positive approach to business that is not 100% in
profit. Like, yeah, if you're going to
run a business, you have to think about profit.
But at the same time, how do we do it in a way that is there's a
(41:24):
human side to it that is not just like I'm looking for a
quick buck or whatever, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah. The tactical things we do
tactically one way or the other,it's like the lens and the brush
in which we paint them, that makes the difference, right?
The end of goal is we need more sales and we need more clients
to be successful. But like, we can make that what
we wanted to. On that note, like we, you know,
(41:45):
we did a bit of an overview of, you know, your work and what
you've what your experience has been.
I wanna talk a little bit about Agency in a Box.
Sure. This is actually the first time
I'm even hearing about it. And so and like I want to hear
how your experience in running the Snow Collective and your
(42:06):
previous experience before that has LED you to this initiative.
So building the snow collective,we have to build all of these
systems, financial systems, operation systems.
We need our technology stack like we need standard operating
procedures, like we need all of these process.
We need this process tool kit, if you will, so that a business
(42:26):
can function. And I worked at agencies until I
was in my late 20s, maybe I was 30.
And so I only have a certain amount of experience and it's
only a certain amount of visibility into the way the
business operates. That came with my level of
seniority, which was medium. And So what that meant is I came
with a medium skill set on knowledge of how to build a
(42:50):
business. And So what that means is that I
made a lot of missteps in that if I had a costing matrix,
matrix in Excel that could properly tell me a sell price
based on my expenses and overhead, like then I would have
retained more money in the beginning.
And if I had an org charge so that I could plot my name in and
see where I wanted to delegate first.
(43:11):
Like these are tools that I've gotten from other people.
Again, coaches, consultants, youknow, my senior leadership team
that I'm continuing to build. And so one day I was, I, I'm
part of this CEO peer-to-peer group.
We were at an off site and one of my group members said to me,
I'm paraphrasing, but she said to me, like Dan, like, it's cute
that the snow Collective makes money doing marketing and like
(43:33):
creating marketing deliverables.But you know, the value of your
company is actually in the systems and the processes that
you're building. And I was like, huh, that's an
interesting concept because ad agencies are just like corporate
advertising agencies are just disintegrating around us in the
(43:55):
market. And there are a lot of people
who've worked in agencies for a long time who don't have
experience running a business. They're people that are, you
know, just starting their careers.
They're young, and they want to build something for themselves.
And So what I've realized is, isthat taking all of these tools,
these processes, these Excel spreadsheets, these, you know,
diagrams, these tech stacks, like everything that we've
(44:16):
built, If we can package that ina way that's another business
owner can pick it up and run with it, then it's going to
alleviate a lot of the barriers and challenges that I personally
faced building this business. And most specifically,
alleviating the blind spots thatwe all have based on our
experience of not running a business before.
(44:37):
If you've done this six times before, like Rock'n'roll.
But for those of us who haven't.And So what Jenny, Jenny
Simpson, my CEO and I are doing is we are packaging together all
of the tools you need to launch your own agency, whether it's,
you know, marketing, public relations, content creation, and
(44:58):
it's going to be specifically ona freelance model.
So if you're like, I want to build a traditional agency
structure with employees and office and like, this isn't
that, this is, you know, I'm a creative.
I want to partner with the people around me.
I want to be able to build a business that I know is going to
be profitable and organized and sustainable.
Then we're creating this what I'm anecdotally calling agency
(45:21):
in a box where we're going to put it on a learning management
system. People are going to be able to
subscribe and they're going to get access to tools and to
information and they're going tobe cohorts with group work.
So there's actual conversation with an expert to support you
and other and other business owners.
So this is what we're building right now so that we can empower
(45:42):
people to start their own businesses that are viable
within marketing and communication.
I love that and all from you saying fuck agency life, however
many years ago and now this It'sit's it's a like a fairy tale
story I love. It yeah, I mean, once my like my
pumpkin carriage shows up and I like have my going on, I'll text
(46:05):
you and then I'll let you know that like it's the fairy tale is
real now it's happening. Yes.
Once Prince, what's his face shows up and whisks me away,
I'll I'll let you know. But no, it's very serendipitous.
And to go back to the why, we see all of these conglomerates
buying up small agencies, just like in every organization.
(46:25):
It's happening in Canada, everywhere, in every industry.
These conglomerates are coming in and people are getting
corporate jobs. And which is fine, it serves a
lot of people. But for those of us who it
doesn't like, I wanna be able togive the underdog something that
they can accelerate faster with.Like I wanna change trajectory
so that there's more competitionin the market.
(46:46):
And so for me, it's about givingpeople the tools that I didn't
have to be successful sooner so that they don't have to go take
that shitty corporate job that they don't really want or that,
you know, like, oh, my business is floundering.
I don't know how to make it profitable.
Like I'm going to have to get a job again.
Like we're creating it for thosepeople so that they can can run
(47:08):
a business that is going to keepthem out of being in spaces that
aren't productive or healthy or good.
That's honestly a very exciting venture.
I'm excited for it to make its way.
And so like we can cut this if you want, but when do you think
this is going to be like available to the public?
We're going for a third quarter beta test this year in 2025 S
(47:30):
realistically, that's probably going to be me reaching out to
my network. If anyone hears this and they're
like, I want to be a part of this now, send Gio an e-mail at
graphic.com. Yeah.
Or me if it's snow collective.ca, hit us up in the
contact page. But no, all this to say, we're
going to start beta testing it in Q3 so that we can get
feedback and again, see what ourblind spots are, things that we
haven't pointed out. And then we're gonna formalize
(47:53):
it through fourth quarter. So I'm gonna say like for the
public. 2026 Q 1/20/26. Amazing.
Yeah. Is this something that I could
potentially be part of that testing group?
Yeah, 100%. And you're gonna end up
designing the whole thing. I know I have.
I have plans for you. That the question of when it's
(48:15):
going to be out to the public was also layered as like, when
is that coming to me to start working on the brand?
When should I put that into my workflow?
I love it. No, that's exciting honestly.
And, and at the end of the day, like I love any initiative
that's going to help people to feel more empowered in their own
business, because as we see, theconglomerates are not, you know,
(48:35):
they're their own. That's their lane.
And there's, but there's a lot more of us than there are of
them. And so it's it's nice to see
that there is an initiative thatis looking to actually help
people help themselves. Yeah, yeah.
And again, it's just taking the the places I've stumbled and
smoothing those steps out. Like that's the goal for me.
(48:57):
When I don't have a clear picture in my head, it's still
like it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah.
And so I'm still, it's still a little like, what's the word I'm
looking for? Like not esoteric, but it's
still intangible for me. Yes.
But I'm really excited for whereI can go and what the
opportunity brings. And again, and I'm reaching out
and asking people who work in educational design and like
(49:19):
online learning, I'm like, cool,what are the best practices?
So it's like you said, you always like to learn and it's
definitely a learning experience.
So we're nearing the end, which I don't know if you've seen any
of the episodes at all. But of course.
We're I'm only like 3 out at this point.
So we're recording this in beginning of April.
And so like I'm still less than a month in of like putting this
(49:40):
out to the world. So I, I don't know who's seen
what, but what would you say is the most on brand thing that
you've ever done? I feel that the most on brand
thing that I do is like hacking life.
That's a the feedback I got fromsomeone last year actually is
that I don't do anything in the traditional way.
(50:01):
It seems like from where I live to how I work to the business
that I create, to like the cars that I drive, like everything is
its own little adventure. And it's all like workarounds of
how money in capitalism society have like expected us to
function. I guess is, is the way that I'll
(50:24):
frame it like that success ladder and that like life
ladder. Yeah.
And so I think like the most unbranded thing that I continue
to do is like, see the existing model of how something is done
and then be like, it could be half of that and cost 1/3 of
that. And we can just build it like
this. So I'm going to do that now.
I think that that's like my my on brand trait that seems to be
(50:47):
I'm just like, I'm just too stubborn to do anything in the
prescribed way. I think is is what it is.
Like the Taurus you are. Like the Taurus that I am,
that's exactly it. As I ask questions that ask the
question to people, like I don'tknow what they're going to tell
me, but you saying I'm like thatis on the money.
The branding guy nails the branding question, yes.
(51:09):
You literally don't do anything the way that this the society we
live in, the expectations like you kind of do.
You always is taking your own path and that is commendable.
And I'm not like doing this in like a let me blow smoke up your
ass or whatever. You've legitimately done
everything your own way, like you said, from work to how you
(51:30):
live your personal life, everything you're like, I'm just
going to do what I want and not in a way that's negative, like
it's you're you're just taking control.
You, you said this to me years ago where you're like, I want to
design my own life, like the waythat I want it for myself.
And you, you're doing that. You've been doing it.
You're doing it, you're continuing to do it.
And now you're going to help others do that for themselves.
And that to me is very commendable.
(51:51):
Thank you. No.
And I really appreciate that. And the thing that I will add to
is like in a way for I think at first when I was when I felt
like I didn't have a choice, it was like fuck everybody else.
I'm gonna do whatever I want. And now I've realized that by
designing the life that I want and living it openly is the best
way to empower other people to do the same thing.
(52:12):
And that is the the change that I've realized.
And it motivates me to do it more because I know that if
people are like, well, Dan can do it and like, he's having a
great time and is surrounded by wonderful people who support
him, Like then why can't I get anew job or start my business or
leave my marriage or go travel the world or like, whatever that
thing those things are, you know?
(52:34):
So yeah, it's fun and it's it's motivating.
You're motivating me to be better, to do better, and I
thank you for that and. I We'll be Better Together.
Yes, and like I do, I look forward to what the next seven
years is going to be right for for us individually and as a
partnership when it comes to ourwork.
Like I, I don't know, I, I thinkI have so Many thanks for you
(52:57):
and you know, thank you for doing this episode, like taking
time and doing this like this ismy new little venture.
And it just means so much that anybody who says yes to to be
part of it. And I just appreciate you very
much. It's my pleasure and I can't
wait to listen back to this in five more years when we get on
our next podcast interview and do another like Inventory of the
(53:17):
Wild and amazingness that has transpired between now and then.
Even though, like, you know, seemingly everything around us
is crumbling. But I do genuinely feel hope and
like I feel galvanized for myself and for us as a group of
entrepreneurs all working together in this bleak existence
that we live in. To me, that's something worth
holding onto. So, you know, and I, I have you
(53:39):
to thank for that. So I appreciate it.
Oh, you're so sweet. No, it's, it's my pleasure.
Forward we go. Yes, I'm excited.
So if anybody wants to reach outto you, you know they've heard
this episode and they're like, hey, Dan sounds like I somebody
I want to work with. Like how can people reach out to
you and come into contact with you?
You can always reach me through our website, snowcollective.ca,
(54:00):
and the best place is LinkedIn you can find.
I know it's not a very sexy answer, but yeah, you can find
me on LinkedIn. Reach out.
And if you're directly connectedto Geo, I'm only ever an arm's
length away from, we're only ever a touching zoom screen
away. So yeah, yeah, hit up the
website, check me out on LinkedIn.
(54:21):
All are welcome. The more the merrier.
Amazing. And OK one SEC I'm just gonna do
my outro. I hate doing this part like.
Because you have to self promote.
Yeah, I know. I really enjoyed how
uncomfortable you were and how Lorena had to push it.
(54:41):
Like, I know it's like the weather.
I'm like, oh God, it sounds so like whatever.
Go for yourself bitch. Yes.
And to anybody who wants to reach out to me, you can follow
the podcast on Spotify, Apple podcast, etcetera.
I'm also on YouTube. I would love a follow a
subscribe, leave a comment if you will.
I would love to hear your thoughts on any of the episodes.
(55:03):
And if you want to reach out to me about design, you could reach
out to methroughgeographic.com on my website.
And yeah, thanks, thanks for listening.
Yeah, Geo, good job. Yes.
Yes, yes. OK, bye, bye.
She's doing the most right and I'm like, you got to fucking
relax. Just focus on what you know.
Well, yes, and I'm going to end this.
Yes. And the other thing that I have
observed about you in the momentor two that I've known you is
you find like you find comfort and security in the doing of the
work. Like if you when you don't have
(00:21):
work to do like tactical work, you get very antsy.
Gio Petrucci, you get very unsettled, which is fine.
But all this to say, like you'realso a very capable person.
So The thing is, is that you're,you're coming on here, you have
a podcast, like it's edited likelook, look how good I look by
the time this ends up live somewhere like you're, you're
(00:42):
doing it and everything that youput your mind to you accomplish
the challenge for you is lettinggo of the, the the tactical
volume for you. I think your biggest challenge
is going to like, it's going to be finding that creative partner
that you feel like just gets youand then you'll be able to
offload more. But it's going to be, I still
feel you're going to be very uncomfortable.
(01:03):
Look at the look on your face. I.
Know it's true, it's I'll. Describe it to you in detail.
He looks both amused and very guilty all at the same time.
Yeah, if you want to see what I look like, go to YouTube.
(01:40):
Welcome to another episode of Graphic Content, the podcast
where we talk all things who, why, and what the fuck.
Today's guest. Your summary's like, quite
expansive, but I had. So to sum it up, it was a task.
I spent like 20 minutes trying to figure out what the hell I
wanted to say. You could have just chat she PT
D that. I know, but I wanted it to be
from. A bio from the heart.
(02:02):
Yes, exactly. OK, so tell me what you think of
this as I say it live with almost 20 years experience.
Today's guest started his careerin agency creating strategies
for Nissan, Visa and Molson, which in turn led him to being
the Director of Marketing for the Canadian LGBT Plus Chamber
of Commerce and eventually today2025, becoming the founder of
(02:27):
the snow collective Dan Snow. Thoughts.
Now the crowd went wild. You just can't hear it in the
background of my microphone. But that was all of those things
have happened and it was very enthusiastic, so I appreciate
all of that. Listen, we can look back on our
lives in in not so enthusiastic ways, but at the end of the day,
(02:50):
the amount of things that your LinkedIn profile lists that
you've done quite a bit. Yeah, I guess I've been.
I've been busy. I suppose it's a busy girl.
I've been, I've been busy. As I was just saying to you, I
was just listening to our Listento Me podcast that we did five
years ago now. And yeah, thankfully we're just
(03:11):
getting younger and fresher every day.
Yeah, it's just it's like it's always interesting to take a
moment and take stock of your own journey because we're not
always invited to do it very frequently.
So yeah, there have been some things to say the least.
Yeah. And and the two of us have been
working together for how many ofthose years?
(03:34):
Well, according to our last podcast, it would now be 7/7.
Years yeah it's it's flown by but we've and we've been able to
accomplish a lot together mostlyyou doing the pushing but.
I mean, it's like someone's got to push, someone's got to pull,
and you're pulling those designsthrough like a champion.
So I mean, you know, we, we tag team this bad boy.
(03:55):
Both of us having started in agency, we kind of got the
ground like the foundation of what who we are today in our
early years. And one of the things that we
connected on in the beginning was how we wanted to leave
certain things behind, I guess is what I want to say.
I want to dig into a little bit about like what it is that LED
you to doing the Snow Collectivebecause there's that the early
(04:18):
story that was like, OK, what? What would you call it?
The like in like comic books? It's the OR like the epilogue.
Yeah. Or like the what is it your
villain? Like what is it called?
What am I thinking of my villainera?
No like. What have I had that yet the.
Thing that like has like your, your origin story, your.
Origin. Oh, my origin.
(04:39):
There you go. My origin story.
Yeah, effectively my background was, is is an ad agency is
Adland, as I call it. I started in market research
when I was 19 years old and likestill going to college and
working focus groups at night. And then that led to exposure to
ad agencies. And that's what I thought I
(05:00):
wanted to do was to work at ad agencies and be an ad executive,
whatever that means, and go and live that, you know, Highline
lifestyle. And then I did it and there was
a bit of a different brand projected for agency life than
reality. And so after I busted my chops
(05:24):
and had my ass kicked a bunch oftimes and learned a whole lot
and did amazing things and met wonderful people, like there was
a lot of really good as well, ofcourse.
But yeah, it just wasn't the culture and environment for me.
So I figured, you know, if none of these people are going to
create it, then I guess the I probably should.
And that was like 10. I mean, I registered the company
(05:45):
13 years ago now. Listen, as somebody who has
worked with you for so many years, I am 100% an advocate for
the approach to leadership that you have taken because I've
worked on both sides. So I can, you know, I have, I
know that before and after lookslike for me anyway, and the way
that you approach leading a teambecause you know, and I want to
(06:09):
discuss like the intricacies of what how you formed the snow
collective. But to me, as somebody who's
been a part of it now for almosta decade, which is crazy, I know
it's. When you say it that way, Gio,
it makes us sound very old, and I don't know that I care for
that, but we'll let it slide this time.
But sounding and looking, you know, whatever.
Very different. Yeah.
(06:33):
No, see, we, we don't dabble in those.
Well, I don't anymore, but but no, the way you approach, the
way you approach it is to me is moving away from, I know this
sounds so silly, but this like dictator style like I found like
working in that where it was so tough to work in that fast-paced
environment. Whereas we work in a way that
(06:56):
there's, you know, we have deadlines, we have work that we
have to get done, clients that we need to service.
But at the end of the day, there's respect.
Everything gets done in the end and there's open communication
where we usually are leaving meetings, calls, etcetera, with
smiles on our faces. And that is in no way trying to
sound like Teletubby bullshit. Like it's.
(07:18):
You. Know what I mean?
Like it's real And so how do youapproach that?
I feel that my approach is this term that keeps coming up around
me recently, which is like servitude leadership, which the
whole idea is, is that if you want your team to generate the
best results, they need to feel the best that they possibly can.
(07:39):
And your job as a leader is to give them the tools to give them
the path, the instructions, the guidebook and the support in
order to do it. As we've discussed in the past,
for me, it's about like we weren't living in choice in AD
land. And I know that that's not
exclusive to advertising agencies.
A lot of people have jobs regardless of what it is that
(07:59):
you do where you feel like you're allocated work and you're
allocated A-Team. And so for me that, and that
wasn't that never fit. And so when I created the Snow
Collective, it was about enabling people to thrive.
And, and so I really try to serve my team and my clients in
the best way that I can, sometimes in my own expense.
(08:22):
But it's just about being a people person first, I think,
and not letting like, revenue orprofits or like venture
capitalists or like external growth forces dilute what it is
that you're there to do, which is to help make people's lives
better by having jobs and deliverables that are good and
(08:45):
positive and rewarding. I will say your approach to, you
know, how you run the snow collective has shown me as
somebody who has been in an environment where, and you know
what, even with clients like in the past where I've worked with
people that are not respectful, are just hard to work with in
their own way. And you've shed some light on me
(09:07):
feeling like I can actually ask for more or like I feel like I,
I actually deserve better treatment or I don't need to
take, you know, a, a certain client's bullshit.
Yeah, 'cause I, I don't operate in that way.
And so it has really allowed me to like, be honestly the person
that I am today and both personally and professionally.
(09:29):
So, you know, I thank you for that.
Oh, that's no, I, that's beautiful.
Thank you for saying so. I I appreciate that.
And and it goes back and, you know, and I have these moments
in my mind of experiences that you and I have had together
where, you know, a client who was brought into the team late,
like made some belligerent comment.
And I was like, yeah, no, we're,we're not going to work with you
(09:49):
anymore. Like that's how you're going to
treat us. Like goodbye.
And and, you know, we go back tothe comment about choice, I
think to a client that we shared.
You weren't on this call, but the client asked me.
I asked. I was running a marketing team.
Let me Zoom out. I was running a marketing team
at a company as an external leader.
You were running the creative team.
(10:11):
And so I was asking one of the members of the creative team for
a document. And she was like, when do you
want that? And I was like, will you tell
me, like, what? When can you comfortably commit
to having that to me? And she and her boss were both
on a call and they both just like stopped and stared at me
through Zoom. And I could see that they were
surprised that I didn't give hera deadline.
And I was like, well, I have no visibility into what is on your
(10:35):
desk outside of what I've asked you for.
I don't know what your capacity is right now.
This doesn't have like a drop dead date.
So like, I'm gonna invite you togive me a deadline.
And they like both their brains broke.
Like if it's just something to behold in the moment and it it's
those clarifying moments where you're like, yeah, the culture
(10:56):
that we have is way better. It is honestly the fact that
like we don't work with a lot ofpeople that are militant, like
they're, they understand that weare our own entity as a group
and you know, we eventually we get everything done that needs
to get done. And so we kind of tell people
like, this is how we operate. The relationships we have with
our clients are so like copacetic, you know what I mean?
(11:17):
Like they work so well together because it's like, listen, we're
not, we're not feeding starving children, you know what I mean?
Like we're so like, it's all good.
It'll get done. And I, I to me, I feel like this
is going to, on a selfish note, like, or a way to kind of, you
know, I center myself in this ina little bit, is that it's
allowing me to realize that as Igo through life, the expectation
(11:40):
that I have is elevated when it comes to personal and
professional. The world is already hard
enough. Like, why do we have?
Why does work have to suck as well?
Yeah. We live in this beautiful
capitalistic society in this economy.
Like we got to work, as Britney would say, bitch, better work.
And so, yeah, it's one of these pieces where it goes back to, I
(12:03):
think of like in college when you had group projects and you
like picked your favorite peopleand got to collaborate and, you
know, when you knew who was going to be strong in the sway
and who was going to be weaker in another.
And you like distributed. And I feel like this is like the
grown up version that where like, yeah, we have deadlines,
we have accountability, we have systems and processes and like
we have to. And the other piece is, is that
we treat each other like people and we expect our client like,
(12:25):
and we treat our clients like human beings and we expect the
same of them. So, you know, life happens.
And in the last 12 to 16 months,a lot of life has happened.
And the other thing that, you know, allows us to sustain this
culture is we work with clients who are like, oh, you have this
thing going on or the power justwent out for two days or, you
(12:46):
know, nine people in your immediate family just died.
Like go and take the time that you need.
I'm like, we'll, you know, like they, that's the other pieces
that we, I find that the big change that we've created and
sustained is that we work with clients who are human beings
first and business owners 2nd. And that enables us to also have
(13:07):
that tone within our own organization.
Because if we were fighting external forces to be robots all
the time, then it's going to seep in.
So it's finding those clients that share the same values of
people, of other human beings. 100%, You know, I mentioned at
the top of the show that you hadworked with the CGLCC.
As you know, this is how we met.I did a mentorship through the
(13:28):
Young Entrepreneurs Mentorship program back in 2019.
And I had a mentor who the one thing I retained was, and he
said to me, his name is Charles McKee.
And he was like, you want to make sure that you operate your
business the way that you operate as a person.
And that to me was such an impactful statement because in
(13:51):
my, you know, when you're young,like, and I was only a couple
years into geographic at the time, like I was now I, I just
hit eight years and I was yes, thank you that.
Was me applauding to the listeners.
All 10 of them, but but no, like, and you know, you're in
your early stage career and you're like, I have to be this
(14:13):
and I need to do that and I needto you know, and, and I was it
was very freeing for me because I was in my mind thinking, I
have to be this like specific individual like, and I'm like, I
I don't even that doesn't resonate with me.
What and for him to say that andsomebody who, you know, I
respected because he he's been in it for years and I was like,
(14:34):
Hey, this person has lived a very successful life personally,
professionally, etcetera. I don't need to be afraid to be
myself and to step into, you know, who Jio is, both as a as a
creative and as, you know, the human being.
Yeah, absolutely. And to build off of that, the
theme that I'm continuing to learn is don't sell yourself
(14:55):
short when it comes to asking for help.
Once we establish ourselves as our authentic selves within our
businesses and we start living that, it takes practice and it's
still always an evolution. And yes, absolutely.
And that's what's enabled the Snow Collector to exist and to
grow and to be successful. And the other thing that I
(15:17):
learned in that is like, OK, once I authentically know who I
am, I also now can't like sell myself short or play small or
think that, you know, this person's so much more senior
than me or they have such their business is much bigger than
mine. And so for me, the other bookend
to that is like, now that I knowwho I am and how I want to show
up and like what my values are now, how do I bring that to
(15:38):
people who I put on a pedestal so that I can be like, hey, look
at what I'm doing and what our team is doing and what we're
accomplishing? Like, can you support us?
Would would you be willing to and how could you?
And so for me, that's been like the extension of that know
myself journey and like know my worth.
And now I have to action it by like showing up for myself and
saying I am valuable. We are valuable.
(16:00):
Would you be willing to help make us better?
And that's where my push has been recently.
Genuinely curious but like what got you there?
Because that's not an easy transition or like, you know,
evolution, because we can't justsay like, I got this bitch and
I'm going to fucking show up andwhatever.
Like it's just, it's not, you can't just do that.
And if you do, great. But I'm I'm not the one, you
(16:21):
know. I mean, I'm a huge proponent of
coaching and therapists and leadership coaches and all of
this awesomeness. It's no secret because it's made
a huge difference in my life andmy business.
But like, my life has shifted a lot because of the perspective
that I've gotten from great coaches.
And so I was talking to Val. Valerie Hall Little is my
(16:43):
leadership coach. She's amazing.
We've been working together for five years now.
Maybe this is our 6th. And so the conversation I was
having with Val is like, I need,I'm so in operations, I'm
running things, I need support. And she sat back and said, like,
OK, who are the people in your career who have exemplified what
you want to be in a chain and anoperations leader, like, who did
(17:07):
it really well? Who inspires you when you think
of excellence, Like, who comes to your mind?
And so I went through my, you know, career Rolodex.
And I said, you know, Jenny Simpson, we worked together at
TBWA. She was my boss.
She ran the digital department. She was like, restructuring $30
million ad agencies globally. Like, she's a boss.
(17:27):
And then Val was like, how wouldit feel to pick up the phone or
call her and have a conversationwith her about how, you know,
she could support or pick her brain or whatever?
And I probably hadn't talked, like talked to Jenny in like 10
years, probably hadn't seen her in a decade.
And so we ended up getting on a call and reconnecting.
And I told her where I wanted togo with the snow collective and
(17:48):
the challenges that I was facing.
And that turned into dinner, which turned into me being like,
do you wanna come in as a fractional chief operating
officer? Like, the story I'm telling
myself is like, you're too experienced and you're too
expensive. And, you know, and she came and
said, like, these are the kind of projects I don't get asked to
do very often. And I love them.
And I would love to come in and help.
(18:09):
And so for me, it's just about getting that an initial push
from someone who can take you out of your own internal
narrative. And then once Jenny said yes, I
went and I asked a sales leader,Linda Kern, who's coming in to
help it with sales. And then I we're bringing in a
fractional CFO. So now I'm like addicted to
asking really good people for help and they keep saying yes.
(18:31):
So I'm like amazing momentum. Momentum and I think it's also
like you said, it's a shift in how you see yourself, you know
what I mean? Because I for the longest time,
you know, it's like that same bullshit, like I'm not worthy,
I'm not good enough, I'm not this blah, blah.
Like the thing that everybody talks about, yes, but really
like that when you get that switch in your head of let's
(18:53):
just see what happens, you know what I mean?
Like let's just not be afraid. And I feel like as a collective,
you know, no pun intended, when we started the year, like we
kind of as a group talked about,OK, what are we doing?
How do we want to evolve? And both all individually and as
a group with you obviously leading that conversation, That
(19:14):
has definitely rubbed off on me because even in my own journey,
I'm like, I just, I don't wanna go.
I don't wanna be scared to, to do or ask for what I want and go
for it because I played so smallin the first chunk of my career.
And I'm like, you know what? No, like, I'm not.
I'm, you know, I'm on this side of 35.
It's time. It's time to pull up my
(19:35):
bootstraps and not be scared. And if we grown now, if we're
not, if we're not grown yet? Oh my God, I know right?
It's so true. But the idea of expansion has
been top of mind for the last like 8 months, six months.
And that has definitely been thecase with snow.
And I feel like you're initiative for this year is to
(19:57):
expand, talk to me a little bit about that process and like
where you see the agency going. Oh, OK.
We've really honed in on who it is that we want to service,
which are businesses that are inwhat I love to call unsexy
industries. So infrastructure manufacturing
(20:17):
like technology infrastructure where everything from janitorial
services to micro metal recycling to chemical creation,
like we're in the non consumer space.
And so what's great is we get toknow these really interesting
businesses. They all have sales teams and
their sales teams are the ones who are facilitating all the
transactions. So we get to work like with
(20:39):
sales teams in these businesses that are very complicated and
interesting and long tail transaction cycles.
And so as we really honed in there, there's just more
opportunity for us to work with them in more involved ways.
And So what that means is, is growing the snow collective so
that we can be external marketing departments for larger
(21:03):
clients. And effectively to do that, I
need more help and I need to do a bunch of shit that I haven't
done before. And everything is so nuanced,
like finance, cash flow management and tax preparation
and sheltering. And like that is a world and a
science and a career unto itselfand operations like it's all
(21:28):
these are all so integral, nuanced, complex systems that a
business needs to function. And I think that I've been in
that like solopreneur mindset ofso long, we're like, I can do
it. I can figure it out.
Like I can do it. And then you get to a point
where you're like, not only can I not do this as effectively as
(21:50):
somebody else who is an expert in this can like also like I'm
fucking tired. Like we've been doing this.
We're you and I are seven years in now.
Like I don't want to create something from scratch and
stress test it and break it 96 times and fix it again.
Like I want someone who can comein and who's like, here's point
A here's point zeds here are allof the 24 steps in between like
(22:11):
go. And I think part of it is really
understanding our own capacity and our own skill set and, and
having the maturity to say like I am in the, I'm in like have
big enough boots to ask for helpin these areas.
You're moving a bit quicker thanI am in that regard.
(22:33):
And it's, it's admirable to me because I, I see you getting
help expanding. I'm still like, I'm, I'm having
a hard time snapping out of thatsolo entrepreneur mindset where
to me, I'm like a type and it's,it's actually a detriment.
I'm like, I can do everything. I can do it all.
And I'm like, actually, bitch, no, you can't.
(22:56):
It's it's becoming so difficult.Yeah, it may be easier for me
because I come from an account side background where I was
running the business and the strategy.
But like I always feel like I can't execute anything.
Like I can't draw a picture, like I can't, like I can't
finesse a copy deck. I mean, I can't draw the
picture. I can finesse a copy deck, but
(23:17):
it's not gonna be as good, right?
So for me it was an easier mental shift to be like, I need
a designer like I need a like, Ineed a web developer like I
don't write code, you know what I mean?
So my background was having a team around me to execute where
as folks who can execute. Then the question is, is well,
(23:38):
where do I need the external support?
You know what I mean? You're looking at 1 discipline
and I'm looking at like 9-9. I can appreciate why it's less,
I don't know. I guess the word I'll use is
obvious of where expansion opportunities are.
It's like we talked about the idea of like busy work versus
expansive work. And I'm very much the type who I
(24:01):
will try to do everything because I, you know, I'm just
the type of person that I want to also like learn.
So things that will actually benefit me, like, you know,
having many bows in my quiver orwhatever it's called.
So much quivering. I'm excited.
I just this picture in the feathers like shaking in the
(24:24):
background as you walk down the the RuPaul's Drag Race
mainstage. Oh my God, Paprika, I'm making
her debut. My God, the peacocking yes, but
but no, like having a bunch of skills that I I liked.
You know, even with this process, like I'm learning video
editing, I'm doing audio, whatever, it comes to a point
where I'm like, this is actuallyI just need to kind of refine
(24:46):
the skills that I currently havethat exist and not try to add so
many more because it's taking away from, it's like, what is
the master of none? What's that saying?
Oh yeah, Jack of all trades, master of none, Yeah.
Exactly, that's how right, That's sometimes how I feel and
I'm like, I'm trying to, she's doing the most right.
And I'm like, you got to fuckingrelax.
(25:08):
Just focus on what you know. Well, yes, and I'm going to and
yes. And the other thing that I have
observed about you in the momentor two that I've known you is
you find like you find comfort and security in the doing of the
work. Like if you when you don't have
work to do like tactical work, you get very antsy.
(25:31):
Gio Petrucci, you get very unsettled, which is fine.
But all this to say, like you'realso a very capable person.
So The thing is, is that you're,you're coming on here, you have
a podcast, like it's edited, like, look, look how good I look
by the time this ends up live somewhere like you're, you're
doing it and everything that youput your mind to you accomplish.
(25:51):
The challenge for you is lettinggo of the, the, the tactical
volume because you love it the way that like you want it done
and because they're cash flow implications and profitability
implications. And you need volume to do that.
So like between the two, it's challenging.
But for you, I think your biggest challenge is going to
(26:11):
like, it's going to be finding that creative partner that you
feel like just gets you and thenyou'll be able to offload more.
But it's going to be. I still feel you're going to be
very uncomfortable. Well, yeah, you don't have all
of the tactical work to do yourself.
Look at the look on your face. I.
Know it's true. It's.
Idiotic. I'll describe it to you in
detail. He looks both amused and very
(26:32):
guilty all at the same time. Yeah, if you want to see what I
look like, go to YouTube. But no honestly, I agree with
you 100% Like I'm I am. I can admit where my
shortcomings, let's say not thatit's a shortcoming, but no, I
just I'm self aware. I know that that's, you know,
it's like I've created this thing for almost 10 years, so
(26:56):
now I gotta let it go. And like, that's the part that
freaks me out because and I can,I can learn a lot from you.
It's just I, I don't know, like you, you hit it on the head
where I have a lot of issues around productivity or like the
illusion of productivity when I'm busy, I feel valid and
(27:16):
valued. And that is, that is a fucked up
approach to existing. Like I've said before, like I
now that not that this is we're trying to get into like therapy
session with Geo, but it's like,I feel like it's very, the lines
are blurred for me when it comesto Geo and geographic.
And it's so funny because like my parents have run a
(27:37):
construction company for 30 years.
It was always like, Jomer was like the 6th Spice Girl, you
know what I mean? Like there was the 6th, the 6th
member of the family, like this overlord that governed
everything that we did. And I would always get so upset
because it was like Jomar took so much precedence.
And like, my dad had this, this weird relationship with the
business where it's like he couldn't really separate
(27:59):
himself. And I'm, I am so much more like
my father than I, you know, I used to make fun of it, but now
I'm like, I'm, it's like a weirdcyclical prophecy.
Like it's, it's, it's interesting, but I'm definitely
aware of it. And I'm like, I gotta cut this
shit, you know? So any tips?
I'll take them. Hey, it all just takes
opportunity and practice. That's all it.
(28:21):
Yeah. It's just about pushing through.
And that's what I've learned is that like, it's just about
pushing through and trying the thing, you know, delegation,
whatever that thing is, and thenreminding yourself when you
catch yourself breaking the rule.
Like for me, it's, you know, I'mone of my goals is to
completely, I'm trying to designmyself out of my business.
Like I'm trying to like literally remove myself
(28:42):
completely because all I do is create roadblocks.
And so for me, it's things like a client replies to an e-mail.
Is it even addressed to me? Probably not.
Do I know what the answer is? And do I want to reply right
away? And like, will I catch myself
halfway through writing a reply?And it's not my job to reply and
then stop and be like, hey, Dan,whose job is it to reply to this
e-mail? Is it yours?
(29:03):
Are you the director of client service?
No, you're not. So delete this e-mail and go
back to your day. And so for me, it's also that
exercise of catching myself in that moment of like overstepping
or undoing the delegation. That's something I'm good at is
like undoing it. And, and it's about noticing it
in that moment and then like stopping the behavior.
(29:24):
And then it gets easier over time.
You have a knack at putting the right people in the right
places. You know, once again, something
I can learn from you is looking at the like the actual
collective that you put together.
You find the right people or theright like lanes to me that that
is a talent unto itself. There's an art to that because
(29:45):
you're putting together a group of people who we all work very
well together, like truly. And so is there like, what is
your approach been like, I know we talked about like 5 people
before business, but yeah, what is how do you actually approach
it? Cuz like that to me is something
that a lot of people can learn from because people hire people
and they're like, what The Who is this person?
What am I doing? Yeah.
(30:07):
And I've had those too as well where I've like brought on
partners as we call them becauseso the Snow collective I guess,
I guess let's explain the business so that people know
what we're talking about. So the Snow Collective is a full
service marketing agency and we do not have employees, we do not
have an office. We are a group of business
(30:29):
owners, consultants, freelancerswho all come together under the
Snow Collective brand. So we operate as a team.
We have status calls every Monday, we have monthly
peer-to-peer meetings like we operate as if we are all
employed, if you will, within the same organization.
But The thing is that everyone is a contractor.
And so we're a core team of, I mean, there are what, 10 of us
(30:53):
on status every week now, 10 or 11 of us.
And then in the background between like coaches and finance
and leadership, we probably haveanother six.
So we're say we're 15 to 17 right now.
And so for me, there is the tactical part of figuring out
who I need when. And the exercise that I did that
worked really well was I, I tooklike a good old fashioned org
(31:15):
chart with one of my coaches with all of the roles that
operate within a business. And then my job was to put the
people's names in and their roles.
And then every role I was doing,I put my name in as the founder.
So by then I was running operations and I was running
finance and then I was running. So you literally put your own
name in red all over the org chart so that you can see all
(31:39):
the things that you are doing because you're doing too many
things by default because you'rerunning a business.
And then what you do is you go through and you prioritize which
one of those roles you're takingoff yourself first.
So for me, it was finance because I can fuck up invoicing
faster than I can tie my shoes. Yeah, you're beautiful.
(32:02):
It's a real asset. Yeah.
Thank you. The shoe, the shoes I have
nailed. Yes.
The delegation. Finance.
Finance I thankfully I'm also nailing, but so for me, like my
first one was finance. I hired an external financial
team. Now we have a controller and a
cash flow guide. I'll call her for lack of a
better term. And now I'm bringing in a chief
(32:22):
financial officer to help integrate finance with
operations. So from building it like when
you're building your business, the org chart exercise for me
was invaluable. And then it's sort of like, OK,
now finance is done. Now I can't run operations
anymore because it's taking up too much time.
So that's the next person that Ibrought in.
You know, Jenny, Fast forward and we have in now use the org
(32:42):
chart from a tactical perspective.
And then with people like it's all, I mean, I don't really know
what to tell you other than it'sall instinct.
Like there are a lot of different assessments,
personality assessments out there to help gauge like folks
who don't have the opportunity to bring in like a referral or
someone from their network. I usually tap my network and
bring people in. But yeah, a lot of it's just
(33:06):
honest conversation, seeing the work.
Like I've learned that don't take anyone for granted.
See the work first and then bring them in.
Even if they're really nice and you really like them, even
though they're a lovely person, they have to be able to produce.
And then it's just, yeah, it's achemistry read.
Honestly, I think is like a large part of it.
I agree with you with the chemistry thing.
(33:28):
That to me is always number one.I like even in my day-to-day
life, like I'm very I'm I'm a very personable human being.
Like I can make friends easily and but as.
Rita bitch at the bar really quickly.
You got like all facets of that.Only if they deserve it.
(33:49):
Only you know you're gonna pull out your Dominique Jackson
moment like a champion. But.
I love her, but truly like I feel the the sensing of energy,
like as not to sound woo woo, but I know like you and I go
into those conversations from time to time.
That is like key. I feel like especially as we're
moving into an era of society where where if we are really
(34:10):
going to leave these structures behind, your approach to running
a business, your approach to just being a person, like I find
you are a very commutative individual.
That's just important. We need that in this new stage
of our reality because, as we see, the old way is not working.
Yeah. And I feel just to zoom out from
(34:31):
just the business because we areprimarily humans in this world
before anything else. Yeah, it's interesting because I
feel that they're people are becoming more insular after
COVID. Again, it was so interesting
listening to our podcast. We recorded that in October of
2020. So we were the first six months
into COVID and now, of course COVID has changed and we don't
(34:54):
live in lockdown and we know what the fuck happened.
I mean, we don't know what happened, but as much as we ever
will, I'm. Still processing it.
Yeah, we'll figure it out in 20 years.
It'll be a future therapy bill. But I feel that the world has
just become a lot more insular. Like I've always run a virtual
business. So a part of the challenge of
running a virtual business is that you don't connect with
(35:14):
people physically. And so creating a business where
we have space carved out, like our monthly peer-to-peer meeting
that I was mentioning, you know,where every month we get
together, we bring the team in and we, I facilitate a
conversation that isn't about the snow collective and our work
and our business. It's about the people on the
call. And like how firstly, how are
(35:35):
you like as a human and as as a business and as a business like
personal professional, how are you, what are your wins?
What are your challenges? Where do you need help right
now? So creating these placeholders
for regular communication that aren't just about us as like or
the snow collective, I should say, it's all about us.
(35:56):
It's not about the business. I think it's just another way to
pull us out of like this insularkind of digital time that we're
in right now. You know, as networking becomes
a thing again and people like resocialize.
So yeah, it's been important to build community, even if we
can't be in the same physical space together.
(36:19):
Yeah, I, I love what I do. We love what we do, but it's
sometimes nice to just like, like you said, connect as a
person Cuz to me, I'm, I, you know, I work with these nine
other people on a regular basis,some more than others.
Yeah. And it's nice to know, you know,
what are you, what is going on with you in your life?
How are you doing? And I think a lot of people went
two ways after COVID on because you brought it up.
(36:42):
Yeah, people went more closed off.
And then there's some people that were like, OK, let's leave
all the like fear and the disconnect that was experienced
during that time behind because,you know, with a nice balance,
because you can't, you're not going to strike the perfect
balance of I am social, but I'm not.
And like to me, I, I actually appreciate my alone time a lot
(37:02):
more than I did before. As somebody who's like, I'm
social. I I love people Now I'm like, I
don't need them as much in person.
Yeah, no, I can relate to that. And I think about in my 20s when
I would, like, work all day and then go to an event at night and
then go meet friends for drinks and then get up and go to a
breakfast meeting at 8:15 and then go work a day in and go
like, I look at like, what my schedule used to be.
(37:23):
I'm like, how was I alive? Like, how did I do that?
And, you know, yesterday I had three different meetings in
three different cities and, you know, drove in a snowstorm and
today I'm like, I'm going to chill.
Like it's none. Of this.
It's being aware of what our actual sustainable tempos are
too. And again, and that's what's
(37:44):
nice too about the digital piece.
I loved being in my clients office yesterday.
It's one of our largest clients.It is our largest client like
Chiu and I work on them. They're fabulous just to be
around. So it was great to be in the
office and just to be with the team.
And at the same time, it's nice that we can just like we have
systems to just rock up on Zoom,be together, you know, the
(38:04):
accessibility pieces there, evenif you're not physically
accessible. And it's and like it's about the
balance. Because I know you had said you
were moving into like the US like that's this is this new
frontier, Has that been part of that movement or that
initiative? The movement into the US is
honestly just my frustration outof 2024 and like the complete
(38:26):
inertia that seemed to be happening in so many business
environments in Canada. And the fact that we are so in
like a state of stasis watching what political environments will
do, especially political environments are are not ours.
And like, obviously there's impact.
You know, right now as we're recording this, it's April 2025
and the trade wars are happening.
(38:50):
You know, that's our our hot seat of the moment, our hot
topic of the moment. And so all this to say, I just
got tired of like trying to findnew business and going to events
and people be like, what do you think's going to happen next
year? I'm like, I want to know what's
going to happen this quarter? Like are you doing anything like
we need we want to move. So all this to say, like I've
(39:11):
worked in the USA lot heavily before.
You know, the other feedback I get from agency owners is that
the sales cycle is shorter, thatthe touch points are lesser.
Like it's just an easier environment with a larger
market. There are just more businesses
there that make over $20 millionthan there are in Canada.
Like it's the market sizes there.
(39:33):
So from a like a tactical perspective, it makes sense.
And I hear a lot of people having success as we are also a
values based organization. The other reason why I want to
do it is because I see what's happening there politically and
we right now are specifically reaching out to female owned,
LGBTQ owned, minority owned businesses in the US within the
(39:58):
industries that we specialize inthat I mentioned earlier.
Who are keeping DEI initiatives,who are keeping their
environmental sustainability initiatives.
So like what I want to do is go in and help the companies that
are minority LED, who are fighting against the man,
whatever we want to call it. And they're fighting for the
(40:19):
same values that we believe in. And the other thing is, is that
the more that the US isolates itself, the more the more easily
it's going to be able to become a dictatorship, right?
Like, if everyone hates America and we don't talk to them
because they're American, then it's easier for their political
people to go and make really negative change.
(40:40):
And so while so many people are like, fuck the US, like booing
at them at hockey games, like, yeah, we're pissed about what's
happening in the government thatthey voted in.
Great. But also like turning them into
pariahs and like, no, you can't sit with us is not going to
solve any problems or make the situation better.
So yeah, it's it's transaction cycle and availability to do
(41:02):
business. It's supporting businesses that
are holding strong on their values, and it's building
bridges where a lot of people are just burning them.
It's a positive approach to business that is not 100% in
profit. Like, yeah, if you're going to
run a business, you have to think about profit.
But at the same time, how do we do it in a way that is there's a
(41:24):
human side to it that is not just like I'm looking for a
quick buck or whatever, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah. The tactical things we do
tactically one way or the other,it's like the lens and the brush
in which we paint them, that makes the difference, right?
The end of goal is we need more sales and we need more clients
to be successful. But like, we can make that what
we wanted to. On that note, like we, you know,
(41:45):
we did a bit of an overview of, you know, your work and what
you've what your experience has been.
I wanna talk a little bit about Agency in a Box.
Sure. This is actually the first time
I'm even hearing about it. And so and like I want to hear
how your experience in running the Snow Collective and your
(42:06):
previous experience before that has LED you to this initiative.
So building the snow collective,we have to build all of these
systems, financial systems, operation systems.
We need our technology stack like we need standard operating
procedures, like we need all of these process.
We need this process tool kit, if you will, so that a business
(42:26):
can function. And I worked at agencies until I
was in my late 20s, maybe I was 30.
And so I only have a certain amount of experience and it's
only a certain amount of visibility into the way the
business operates. That came with my level of
seniority, which was medium. And So what that meant is I came
with a medium skill set on knowledge of how to build a
(42:50):
business. And So what that means is that I
made a lot of missteps in that if I had a costing matrix,
matrix in Excel that could properly tell me a sell price
based on my expenses and overhead, like then I would have
retained more money in the beginning.
And if I had an org charge so that I could plot my name in and
see where I wanted to delegate first.
(43:11):
Like these are tools that I've gotten from other people.
Again, coaches, consultants, youknow, my senior leadership team
that I'm continuing to build. And so one day I was, I, I'm
part of this CEO peer-to-peer group.
We were at an off site and one of my group members said to me,
I'm paraphrasing, but she said to me, like Dan, like, it's cute
that the snow Collective makes money doing marketing and like
(43:33):
creating marketing deliverables.But you know, the value of your
company is actually in the systems and the processes that
you're building. And I was like, huh, that's an
interesting concept because ad agencies are just like corporate
advertising agencies are just disintegrating around us in the
(43:55):
market. And there are a lot of people
who've worked in agencies for a long time who don't have
experience running a business. They're people that are, you
know, just starting their careers.
They're young, and they want to build something for themselves.
And So what I've realized is, isthat taking all of these tools,
these processes, these Excel spreadsheets, these, you know,
diagrams, these tech stacks, like everything that we've
(44:16):
built, If we can package that ina way that's another business
owner can pick it up and run with it, then it's going to
alleviate a lot of the barriers and challenges that I personally
faced building this business. And most specifically,
alleviating the blind spots thatwe all have based on our
experience of not running a business before.
(44:37):
If you've done this six times before, like Rock'n'roll.
But for those of us who haven't.And So what Jenny, Jenny
Simpson, my CEO and I are doing is we are packaging together all
of the tools you need to launch your own agency, whether it's,
you know, marketing, public relations, content creation, and
(44:58):
it's going to be specifically ona freelance model.
So if you're like, I want to build a traditional agency
structure with employees and office and like, this isn't
that, this is, you know, I'm a creative.
I want to partner with the people around me.
I want to be able to build a business that I know is going to
be profitable and organized and sustainable.
Then we're creating this what I'm anecdotally calling agency
(45:21):
in a box where we're going to put it on a learning management
system. People are going to be able to
subscribe and they're going to get access to tools and to
information and they're going tobe cohorts with group work.
So there's actual conversation with an expert to support you
and other and other business owners.
So this is what we're building right now so that we can empower
(45:42):
people to start their own businesses that are viable
within marketing and communication.
I love that and all from you saying fuck agency life, however
many years ago and now this It'sit's it's a like a fairy tale
story I love. It yeah, I mean, once my like my
pumpkin carriage shows up and I like have my going on, I'll text
(46:05):
you and then I'll let you know that like it's the fairy tale is
real now it's happening. Yes.
Once Prince, what's his face shows up and whisks me away,
I'll I'll let you know. But no, it's very serendipitous.
And to go back to the why, we see all of these conglomerates
buying up small agencies, just like in every organization.
(46:25):
It's happening in Canada, everywhere, in every industry.
These conglomerates are coming in and people are getting
corporate jobs. And which is fine, it serves a
lot of people. But for those of us who it
doesn't like, I wanna be able togive the underdog something that
they can accelerate faster with.Like I wanna change trajectory
so that there's more competitionin the market.
(46:46):
And so for me, it's about givingpeople the tools that I didn't
have to be successful sooner so that they don't have to go take
that shitty corporate job that they don't really want or that,
you know, like, oh, my business is floundering.
I don't know how to make it profitable.
Like I'm going to have to get a job again.
Like we're creating it for thosepeople so that they can can run
(47:08):
a business that is going to keepthem out of being in spaces that
aren't productive or healthy or good.
That's honestly a very exciting venture.
I'm excited for it to make its way.
And so like we can cut this if you want, but when do you think
this is going to be like available to the public?
We're going for a third quarter beta test this year in 2025 S
(47:30):
realistically, that's probably going to be me reaching out to
my network. If anyone hears this and they're
like, I want to be a part of this now, send Gio an e-mail at
graphic.com. Yeah.
Or me if it's snow collective.ca, hit us up in the
contact page. But no, all this to say, we're
going to start beta testing it in Q3 so that we can get
feedback and again, see what ourblind spots are, things that we
haven't pointed out. And then we're gonna formalize
(47:53):
it through fourth quarter. So I'm gonna say like for the
public. 2026 Q 1/20/26. Amazing.
Yeah. Is this something that I could
potentially be part of that testing group?
Yeah, 100%. And you're gonna end up
designing the whole thing. I know I have.
I have plans for you. That the question of when it's
(48:15):
going to be out to the public was also layered as like, when
is that coming to me to start working on the brand?
When should I put that into my workflow?
I love it. No, that's exciting honestly.
And, and at the end of the day, like I love any initiative
that's going to help people to feel more empowered in their own
business, because as we see, theconglomerates are not, you know,
(48:35):
they're their own. That's their lane.
And there's, but there's a lot more of us than there are of
them. And so it's it's nice to see
that there is an initiative thatis looking to actually help
people help themselves. Yeah, yeah.
And again, it's just taking the the places I've stumbled and
smoothing those steps out. Like that's the goal for me.
(48:57):
When I don't have a clear picture in my head, it's still
like it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah.
And so I'm still, it's still a little like, what's the word I'm
looking for? Like not esoteric, but it's
still intangible for me. Yes.
But I'm really excited for whereI can go and what the
opportunity brings. And again, and I'm reaching out
and asking people who work in educational design and like
(49:19):
online learning, I'm like, cool,what are the best practices?
So it's like you said, you always like to learn and it's
definitely a learning experience.
So we're nearing the end, which I don't know if you've seen any
of the episodes at all. But of course.
We're I'm only like 3 out at this point.
So we're recording this in beginning of April.
And so like I'm still less than a month in of like putting this
(49:40):
out to the world. So I, I don't know who's seen
what, but what would you say is the most on brand thing that
you've ever done? I feel that the most on brand
thing that I do is like hacking life.
That's a the feedback I got fromsomeone last year actually is
that I don't do anything in the traditional way.
(50:01):
It seems like from where I live to how I work to the business
that I create, to like the cars that I drive, like everything is
its own little adventure. And it's all like workarounds of
how money in capitalism society have like expected us to
function. I guess is, is the way that I'll
(50:24):
frame it like that success ladder and that like life
ladder. Yeah.
And so I think like the most unbranded thing that I continue
to do is like, see the existing model of how something is done
and then be like, it could be half of that and cost 1/3 of
that. And we can just build it like
this. So I'm going to do that now.
I think that that's like my my on brand trait that seems to be
(50:47):
I'm just like, I'm just too stubborn to do anything in the
prescribed way. I think is is what it is.
Like the Taurus you are. Like the Taurus that I am,
that's exactly it. As I ask questions that ask the
question to people, like I don'tknow what they're going to tell
me, but you saying I'm like thatis on the money.
The branding guy nails the branding question, yes.
(51:09):
You literally don't do anything the way that this the society we
live in, the expectations like you kind of do.
You always is taking your own path and that is commendable.
And I'm not like doing this in like a let me blow smoke up your
ass or whatever. You've legitimately done
everything your own way, like you said, from work to how you
(51:30):
live your personal life, everything you're like, I'm just
going to do what I want and not in a way that's negative, like
it's you're you're just taking control.
You, you said this to me years ago where you're like, I want to
design my own life, like the waythat I want it for myself.
And you, you're doing that. You've been doing it.
You're doing it, you're continuing to do it.
And now you're going to help others do that for themselves.
And that to me is very commendable.
(51:51):
Thank you. No.
And I really appreciate that. And the thing that I will add to
is like in a way for I think at first when I was when I felt
like I didn't have a choice, it was like fuck everybody else.
I'm gonna do whatever I want. And now I've realized that by
designing the life that I want and living it openly is the best
way to empower other people to do the same thing.
(52:12):
And that is the the change that I've realized.
And it motivates me to do it more because I know that if
people are like, well, Dan can do it and like, he's having a
great time and is surrounded by wonderful people who support
him, Like then why can't I get anew job or start my business or
leave my marriage or go travel the world or like, whatever that
thing those things are, you know?
(52:34):
So yeah, it's fun and it's it's motivating.
You're motivating me to be better, to do better, and I
thank you for that and. I We'll be Better Together.
Yes, and like I do, I look forward to what the next seven
years is going to be right for for us individually and as a
partnership when it comes to ourwork.
Like I, I don't know, I, I thinkI have so Many thanks for you
(52:57):
and you know, thank you for doing this episode, like taking
time and doing this like this ismy new little venture.
And it just means so much that anybody who says yes to to be
part of it. And I just appreciate you very
much. It's my pleasure and I can't
wait to listen back to this in five more years when we get on
our next podcast interview and do another like Inventory of the
(53:17):
Wild and amazingness that has transpired between now and then.
Even though, like, you know, seemingly everything around us
is crumbling. But I do genuinely feel hope and
like I feel galvanized for myself and for us as a group of
entrepreneurs all working together in this bleak existence
that we live in. To me, that's something worth
holding onto. So, you know, and I, I have you
(53:39):
to thank for that. So I appreciate it.
Oh, you're so sweet. No, it's, it's my pleasure.
Forward we go. Yes, I'm excited.
So if anybody wants to reach outto you, you know they've heard
this episode and they're like, hey, Dan sounds like I somebody
I want to work with. Like how can people reach out to
you and come into contact with you?
You can always reach me through our website, snowcollective.ca,
(54:00):
and the best place is LinkedIn you can find.
I know it's not a very sexy answer, but yeah, you can find
me on LinkedIn. Reach out.
And if you're directly connectedto Geo, I'm only ever an arm's
length away from, we're only ever a touching zoom screen
away. So yeah, yeah, hit up the
website, check me out on LinkedIn.
(54:21):
All are welcome. The more the merrier.
Amazing. And OK one SEC I'm just gonna do
my outro. I hate doing this part like.
Because you have to self promote.
Yeah, I know. I really enjoyed how
uncomfortable you were and how Lorena had to push it.
(54:41):
Like, I know it's like the weather.
I'm like, oh God, it sounds so like whatever.
Go for yourself bitch. Yes.
And to anybody who wants to reach out to me, you can follow
the podcast on Spotify, Apple podcast, etcetera.
I'm also on YouTube. I would love a follow a
subscribe, leave a comment if you will.
I would love to hear your thoughts on any of the episodes.
(55:03):
And if you want to reach out to me about design, you could reach
out to methroughgeographic.com on my website.
And yeah, thanks, thanks for listening.
Yeah, Geo, good job. Yes.
Yes, yes. OK, bye, bye.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.