Horror, Terror & Trauma with Columbus Heath

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Is that what ratioed means? Yeah.
So like, I just learned that. Like I'm not that cool.
So like if you're, if you're saying I'm getting ratioed, it
means you're getting more comments than likes because the
comments are tearing your ass up.
Yep. I'm not that cool.
I didn't know it was. There's so many terms.
I'm like, what? I'm like, I've never heard that

(00:21):
before. And so I always feel like I'm
such an old lady. Yeah.
What has been the biggest challenge that you faced as an
illustrator online and in the art world, other than outside of
that, that bubble? Getting paid with, I mean like,
so it's so funny because like I've got so many art friends who

(00:42):
they, they, they've had like little minor issues with like
clients not paying. I feel like a lot of us go
through that. But but like I've, I'm going to,
I'm going to be good. And I'm not going to name names,
but there have been so many points.

(01:17):
Music. Welcome to Graphic Content, the
podcast where we talk all thingswho, why, and the what the fuck
moments along the way. Today's guest is a vibrant genre
blurring illustrator whose work lives at the intersection of
drag, fantasy and fashion. With Abfa in 2D Design from the
University of Louisville, he hasbuilt a body of work ranging

(01:38):
from drag illustrations to terrifying nightmare creatures
and runway ready costume designs, tapping into personal
narratives of queerness, identity, and power through
visual storytelling. Welcome to Graphic Content,
Columbus Heath. Hi.
Hello, it's so nice to see you. I'm I'm glad that we can
actually have like a face to face.

(01:58):
We've been Instagram friends forlike forever.
A while, yeah, I actually, I wasgoing to ask because like my
memory is not the greatest. Like like how do we initially
meet online? I mean I think I just started
following you. I saw your work and was like
this person is so talented. I need to see this on my feet
every day, every time he posts. Well, I appreciate that.

(02:19):
Yeah. Like this, it's, it's really
cool to finally like, meet because it's, it's kind of
surreal, like meeting some of like your social media pals
because like you spend so much time like texting and then you
feel like, like you finally do like a FaceTime or something.
It's just, it's trippy. It brings the the conversation
into like the new, into the realrealm.
You're like, oh, you, you move you, you have a voice.

(02:39):
You're just not just Yeah, texting.
Exactly. So how's your summer going?
How's it been? Pretty hot.
I'm not sure what it's like up there but like we're in the
upper 90s and our AC broke last week so that was a struggle but
apart from melting to death it'sbeen pretty good.
Just working and stuff. Technically, I'm like the most

(03:01):
southern point of all of Canada,and so I'm right on the border
of Detroit. And it is scorching like we
always have like the the most feet, like apparent if you look
at a map and you go across the world like at the same, what is
it called when it's at the same?Not the equator.
No. And it's like if you're like
where I am, let's say you were to go all the way across in that
same plane. We're we're level to like Ibiza.

(03:25):
Like that's where? Or Ibiza?
Ibiza, we're like. We're right.
We're right there. So we like OK lizards.
It's it's wild. Not lizards.
Little ones, yeah, at the point,there's a Point park and there's
tons of lizards there. It's it's actually like crazy to
see. Yeah, we have giant bugs that
have like crawled out of hell. And they've been like, at first

(03:46):
I thought there was birds in my window, like smacking on the
window, but it's giant beetles and I'm like, where did y'all
come from? So the heat's just dragging them
out of out of the ground. I recently saw a moth that was
like, this big awesome, like, right outside.
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Not when you're, like, sitting around trying to, like, smoke a
joint and then all of a sudden there's this, like, giant bird

(04:09):
bug that's, like, up in your space.
Oh. Shit, see, like ever since I was
a kid, I've loved bugs. So like I'm I'm the one that
will like hold the bug, name thebug.
Everybody else is screaming. I'm I've made a friend so.
Did you ever do those projects as a kid where you like, catch
the bugs and then pin them? Like see like label them.

(04:31):
I never like because I know there's a process to it.
Like I have friends who do it, but like I've always been kind
of nervous if like a damaging the body and damaging the wings.
So I'm going to do it someday, but I've not been too brave to
try it yet. So the way to do it because, and
this one of the few things that stuck with me from my grade
school days is you have to, if you put a with rubbing alcohol,

(04:53):
you or like a nail Polish remover, yeah, on like a swab of
cotton and you put it underneathlike a, let's say you put like a
flat board to cover that beneathit.
And then when you trap them in the jar, then they, which is
terrible, but they suffocate or they die, but then they're in
one piece and. I'm having to.
Do that with like a mosquitoes. We had to trap a mosquito.
I'm like how the fuck am I goingto put a pin through this thing?

(05:16):
It was like wild. Mosquitoes is crazy because
they're so they're so tiny. They're so small, you're
literally taking like tweezers and then just placing it in.
It was, but in the end it lookedcool.
I don't know why I never knew this, but I it took me years to
realize that female mosquitoes are the ones that that suck
blood out, not the males. And that's crazy ones are the

(05:36):
males like the really big ones you see?
And you're like, that looks likea demon mosquito.
They're they're those are far too big.
They get in your house and you're like fuck.
I think some of these pets got loose in our apartment because
we have some hippies that live next door.
Do you know those big poisonous centipedes with like that are
red and gold? No, we don't have those.

(05:56):
OK, Like Nintha Dewey. And so there'd be 1 like there
was one that was about like 4 or5 inches in our in our in our
kitchen dying. And I was like, those are like
tropical poisonous centipedes. I think someone's pet got loose
and it was in our kitchen. OK, but that's sick.
Who's keeping bugs as pets? Personally, it's just not for

(06:17):
me. It's not for me.
Like I just don't want that in my life.
I get that. Part of the reason I wanted to
have you on because I thought so.
Anyway, I'm going to backtrack abit when, and I say this to
almost every guest, especially in this first season, when I
made a list at the end of last year, I was thinking about, OK,
I want to do this podcast. I want to start talking to

(06:38):
people and who do I have in my network?
Let's say that I want to talk toyou and I had put you as one of
the the names. It took me a minute to like get
the courage to ask you because Ijust was like, I don't know if
he'd even consider it. Like would this be something
he'd want to do? But I was going through my
Instagram and like who I'm connected to And to me having
you on is a is a get. Like to me, that's a get for me.

(07:00):
I'm like, Oh my gosh, like when you said yes, I was like.
That's, it's, that's so flattering.
Like I, I don't know, I think like with everyday life and
everything, like I kind of like forget my impact that like my
social media presence and artwork has on people.
And so to hear stuff like that, it just makes me like really
ecstatic. That's a good thing because
you're not, you're not living with ego.

(07:20):
You're like like you're still humble and you know, you're
doing such amazing work. You really are.
Your reach is pretty big to me as I've been seeing you, you
know, your name is getting brought up in certain
interviews. You're being out there.
To me, I'm like, this is I'm just a four month old show.
So at the time of recording, so I'm not anything.
And so when anyone says yes, I'malways like, Oh my God, I feel

(07:42):
so like thankful. So I appreciate you taking the
time. Thank you too.
Yeah. No, it's I'm.
I'm very flattered. We're gonna go to the beginning
because, you know, as creatives,like I have a similar story to
you as to how we got into creative, but like, what got you
into art in the first place? My dad was was like a big artist
like back when he was younger and stuff and he, you know,
would just do art in school and everything, but he never like

(08:04):
pursued it. So like when I was growing up,
it kind of like a inauguration of everything.
Like he got me into comics. He got me into like drawing
Barbarians and monsters and stuff like that.
And I think it was just like theperfect storm of like him
showing me how to draw like little warriors and dinosaurs
and stuff. And then also he would like get
me gifts of like comic books like of X-Men.

(08:25):
And so I think that just, it wasso early on that like I, I can't
remember a time when I wasn't creative.
So he kind of like like the catalyst for like all of that.
So I just stuck with it. I was drawing a bunch of like
little gory that like dinosaur scenes, like I like, I like
little a loose leaf paper. And then that just kind of kept
kept evolving. I'm in the same boat as you.

(08:48):
I, my mom was the, the, let's say the pusher when it came to
creative because, you know, likemost creatives, most people who
draw, it was always like, Oh, I,as soon as I could pick up a
pencil, like I was always drawing.
And, and she was the one that was like putting me in art
classes when I was 10 outside ofschool, like on weekends.
And to me, that's the reason I am where I'm at today.

(09:09):
Like I, I, I was in high school.I honestly thought I was going
to be a lawyer. That was my, the thing I wanted
to go in. So it's always nice when you
have a parent, especially because things are changing now,
but our generation is art was not not necessarily always seen
as like a viable. So it's nice to hear that.
Yeah, like, both my parents, like, kind of pushed me, like
pushed me to be creative, but also kind of like be like

(09:30):
realistic as far as careers. And unfortunately, a lot of
schools just don't prepare artists for the real world.
So like, that's a whole different topic.
But but yeah, like, I always hadthat foundation of like,
encouragement because, you know,they were just like, keep doing
it. So kept doing it.
In the early days, like what were things?
So you were saying like your dadhad you drawing certain things.

(09:53):
Was there like a theme that would come up a lot?
Well, yeah, actually, as a gay man, I feel like we always
gravitate towards strong women. And so X-Men, especially with
Storm, like Aurora Monroe, I wasobsessed.
And so I like, I just had different versions of her like
in my like notebooks. It started off with like little
warriors and dinosaurs and monsters.

(10:15):
And then it turned into more like superheroes for, for like a
good while. And so I kind of wish I could
find my old sketchbooks because my superheroes were just like
big circle, like, like, I guess women's heads and then the body
parts coming out of the heads. So almost like a like a deformed
Funko Pop almost. And so, yeah, like that, that

(10:37):
that was a heavy subject matter for like, most of the elementary
school was like drawing female superheroes.
Once again, I can relate. I was.
I always drew women. Always.
I would always draw women, especially when I was younger,
like Spice Girls were big. Oh yes.
I would draw the Spice Girls, but in like my version of what I
wanted them to wear or like the hairstyles I wanted them to have
And I would always draw like I Ihave all my notebooks.

(11:00):
I have all my sketchbooks from when I was a kid jealous and
they're they're in a pile of my parents basement.
I have to find them, but I know they're there.
They're hiding and there's so many.
It's just like woman after womanafter woman.
Like I would draw like pop stars.
I would draw like get I had likeBlender magazine and Rolling
Stone. You would just like look at them
and just like see if I could just recreate the image from

(11:22):
just looking at it. I love that though, and I also
love Spice Girls. Like I feel like that.
That was also an early gay flag or gay awakening.
Yeah. It was a Spice Girls for sure.
Strong women in general was likethe foundation of like a lot of
like my artwork. And that kind of evolved into
like Victoria's Secret Fashion shows.
Like I was obsessed with those. And that was like more towards

(11:44):
middle school and high school. And then I kind of like, I still
do like the the superhero stuff too, but I started to do like
fashion and like, I was really interested in drawing like
voluptuous women. And so.
And then there was a weird connection where like everybody
around me, my family and friendswere like, oh, he's straight.
I'm like OK. Not quite.

(12:05):
Not quite. To me I'm like what seems more
homosexual or like more queer? Drawing like as a man Like
drawing a bunch of voluptuous women and and skimpy outfits
with swords and stuff or drawingmen with big bulges like.
One in the same. Because I'm like, I'm like, how
gay would it have been if I was drawing a bunch of like, male
superheroes half naked? Listen.

(12:30):
That's the thing. I, I, I never drew men like men.
The male form was not something that interested me.
I think the female form is so much more interesting.
It's yes, it's, it's beautiful. Like to me, I'm looking at
you're like, oh, superheroes. And then the Victoria's Secret
to me, if you look at the silhouettes, that is like a
superhero with like the wings and the, the over the top

(12:52):
accoutrement or whatever you want to call it.
Yeah, they look like superheroes.
And that, and they've actually had a couple cause like I'm a
little, I used to be a little obsessed with like every single
show, but they did, they didn't have a couple like like two or
three like runways like different years where they have
superhero themes. And so I mean like art imitates
life and vice versa. So I feel like a lot of fashion

(13:13):
illustrators pull from comic books anyway.
So it's kind of like just a big circle of everything's connected
or so to speak. But like there was a few of
runways where like they did likethese big like mechanical
looking wings and like like high, like high color, like very
saturated colors as like superheroes.
It was amazing. Let's say you're starting a new
piece like. How do you decide what you're

(13:35):
doing, what you're in, like the style that you want to explore,
Like how does, how do you approach that?
A few. Different things like I'm, I'm
not sure if you're this way too.Like I feel like a lot of
artists are like this where we have something in our heads and
like when we go to put it down, it does not go as planned.
You just get the like frustration.
Yes, and like and you could evendo like so like one thing that
like that like college kind of tried to teach me, which I used

(13:57):
to be really good at. Now I don't anymore thumbnail
sketches like getting out like multiple of like tiny little
squares of like like a like a silhouette or like an idea.
I used to be really good at that, but now I'm kind of like
it's like the the the first or second drawing nails it or like
it, it gets across what I want. So like I don't really practice
as much anymore, but in the client, like I'm like what their

(14:18):
passions are as far as like whatthey want now as far as like my
own personal stuff, I kind of like pull from like a little bit
of everything I pull from nightmares I've had before in
the past, like literal nightmares.
I pull from like nature and fashion and stuff, but it
depends on like what the goal is.
Like if I'm going for somebody on Drag Race or Dragula

(14:39):
specifically, if I'm designing costumes, I want it to fit my
style but also be a reflection of who they are.
So it's kind of like if they step into my world, like into my
brain, what would they look like?
And so I kind of like mesh that person's personality with my
personality and that and and that also goes with like, you

(15:00):
know, fantasy characters like DND or Pokémon.
Like I try to fuse whatever thatsubject matter is with my world
and like my aesthetic, which I feel like a lot of artists do,
but I kind of like do like a Rolodex of OK, what do they what
does this person like? And like, what do I like?
Your style is like so stamped. If I was playing and I didn't

(15:20):
see your name attached to it, I would know it was you 100%.
How did that develop? If you're pulling from so many
different places, you have so many different inspirations,
let's say, or references. How did those all merge together
to create your now very It's honestly, it's iconic to me.
I love it. I think it's I see it.
I'm like, it's like beautiful. It's elegant, but it's also so

(15:41):
like Savage at the at the same time.
Well, thank you. I interesting to kind of like
look back at your previous work and see how much you've evolved.
And it's one of those things where like I feel like I can go
like months without making artwork.
And then when I get back into it, I somehow level up.
And I'm not sure how, if that's just me or if like a lot of
people, it happens like where they kind of take a big art

(16:02):
break and then they come back toit.
And some people like, oh, I'm rusty with me.
I could go like on a hiatus. And then all of a sudden I know
how to draw shoulders better. Like it's the weirdest thing.
And so it's, it's almost like I have like big leaps every year
of like my own personal style. And for a while the costumes
were cool, but like the body proportions weren't that great.
And so I feel like in like the last 2-3 years, I kind of like

(16:26):
hit this stride where everythingthat I've kind of like built up
and like and like learned littleby little that kind of like
didn't work in the past. I kind of like came to this
point where like I'm, I'm betterdrawing body proportions.
I'm more confident with like thecostumes I make because in years
past, even like even like duringCOVID, I was kind of like, you

(16:46):
know, my costumes look a little campy, but like not in a good
way. And they look a little cheapy.
But at some point I kind of was like, what do I want to see?
Like what do I want to like, like, like what do I kind of
like want to change it into? Because for a while I was known
for like those monster costumes where like it was like a big
cartoon face, like a big with teeth and eyes.
And it was, it looked almost like evil Muppets sort of.

(17:09):
And so and like those were like really popular for a while, but
I had, you know, too much drama happening behind that behind the
scenes with that, with those costumes.
So I was like, let me change gears and let me do something
that A, would be harder to plagiarize and B, just kind of
be like, I don't know, more amorphous and more nightmare and

(17:30):
like kind of more avant-garde compared to the campy style that
I had before. I've, I've noticed things that I
wanted to change and I implemented that and now I've
kind of like come to a part where like I really, really,
really enjoy the stuff. I mean now compared to like
recent years? So are you a horror queen?
Yes, yeah. Are you?

(17:50):
I can't do it. I can't.
Do it. Is it gore?
Is it slashers? Is it like monsters?
I just, I'm the person that I feel too much like genuinely if
I watch something like when I watched the Descent that movie I

(18:11):
thought those like cave demons were living in my house for.
I love that movie. It's it is no, for real.
I couldn't like, I was like convinced that they were under
my bed. Like if I watch something like I
will dream about it. I will, I will be the
protagonist in the in the movie and like I'm being murdered or
what? I so I just for me, I just stay
away from it. I, I, I can respect the, the,

(18:33):
the art. I can, I know that there's a
place for it in our culture, butI for me, it's just not.
It's not Yeah, I like. I feel like, I feel like it's
one of those things where maybe you haven't found the right
content because so like like with my friends recently, his,
his mother like hated horror, but then she fell in love with
Mike Flanagan's work on Netflix,like Hill House, Blind Manor,

(18:56):
Midnight Mass, because it was like more about storytelling,
unless, I mean, it has to have scary jumpscares, but there was
like layers of like humanity andlike really good acting.
So I feel like maybe there's like a genre.
I thought there's there's there's some kind of a genre or
thriller for everybody. Don't you feel though, that over
time, because the more you watchit, I feel like you become

(19:17):
desensitized to or you become like those that your nervous
system, the way that it reacts to it like almost becomes
desensitized. Like if you're a horrible, like
explain that to me, 'cause to meI've avoided it 'cause it's too
like I'm firing on all cylinders.
And So what is that like for you, 'cause genuinely I'm like,
this is too much. Yeah, it it really depends.

(19:38):
Like I, I'm not sure if you've heard like the, the, the
terrifying movies, but they get really boring bloody.
So it was so funny because like I think the first two kind of
ruined us because as horror fans, because there's some
pretty brutal kills in, in the 1st 2 movies.
And so in the third one, we all expected like this big like
trending kill that happened in the 1st 2 movies and it didn't

(20:00):
happen. Well, like there was one really
bad scene, but I was like, that was it.
So I think in my mind. It's so underwhelming.
Yeah, I'm like, damn, like that.That really wasn't that gory.
It was. But so here's what really gets
me, like gore does not face me. It's that's it's that slow burn
stuff when like things are in the background, they're out of

(20:22):
focus and it's and like it's getting closer that freaks me
out. Yes.
Or you can see it and it's just like, remember, did you ever
watch the The Strangers? The Strangers.
With with that Liv Tyler. No.
Oh. My God, please watch that.
It is so. I mean genuinely though, you

(20:42):
might just leave your doors and windows locked for like, I don't
know, the whole. For the rest of my life.
It's scary. It's very scary, but the one of
the killers comes out into the kitchen, but the woman doesn't
see them. And he's, he's fully in the the
kitchen light. So if she turned around, she
would have seen him, but he's just watching her.
And it's a very quiet still moment that lasts like 60

(21:05):
seconds. It it is one of the most iconic
horror recent horror movie moments.
It's so, it's so scary. So stuff like that.
You describe me like I'm actually feeling feels like.
Because like her and her boyfriend have a fight and she's
smoking a cigarette like in the living room.
It's like, it's like his parentscabin or something.

(21:26):
And it's like a nice warm, like cozy kitchen light that's like,
that's like, and, and this shadow emerges out of the the
living room and he's fully lit up.
So you can see his whole, his whole get up and he's just
watching her and she can't hear any of it because she's in her
own like little world. And I'm like, so stuff like
that, it makes me look over my shoulder before bed.

(21:48):
See, I don't want that. I want, I want to just be like
I'm, I'm, I'm in a safe space. Yeah, this is my.
Home. This is where I can like, unplug
from the world and not worry that I'm going to be stabbed
when I'm sleeping. Yeah, I I fully get that.
I fully get that. I recently started rewatching
Buffy because it, it just got added to one of the like
Canadian streaming services thatI have.

(22:10):
And like that's, that's the vibeI like.
I like it's camp. It's, you know, it's also
because it's, so it's 30 years old basically that, you know, it
looks like almost jokey at this point, especially with the
technology we have today. So to me, I'm like, I like that
vibe because I, I, I don't, thatdoesn't sit in my consciousness.

(22:31):
And I mean, I'm like, I and it'salso, I haven't watched it since
it aired. Like, yeah, I was a big fan.
And so seeing it again, I'm likereliving the storylines, like,
Oh my God, I forgot about Oz. I didn't remember who Oz was and
things like that. I've been loving at that.
See, I want to get into that. Like it's one of those those
queer pieces of media that I never got into because A,

(22:52):
there's lesbians in it and B, there's horror.
So you think I'd be on board? I think I was a little bit
scared as a kid. I was like, because I kind of
like, didn't come into whore until I was like in high school.
So like, I was very scared of myown shadow for, like, years.
But Buffy looks so fun. And it's on Disney, Hulu now.
The problem is I don't like commercials.

(23:13):
And so it was the first opening scene of Season 1.
Like the, like, the high school guy is like taking his
girlfriend into the until like, whatever.
And they're going to have sex. Yeah.
And then like, he's like, I don't think if there's anybody
around. And then she goes perfect or
whatever, and then she turns around and she's a vampire.
I was like, oh, cool. And then it cuts the commercial.
In the first scene. That's how bad Disney Hulu has

(23:35):
gotten where like there's like 10 commercial breaks and a 30
minute episode and I'm like, I need to to cave in and like buy
a free that because I want I want to binge Buffy because the
new series is coming out and like I want to be ready.
Yeah. Over the years, like I said,
I've been following you for a really long time.
It's I've seen so much of your work.

(23:55):
You've done a lot of illustrations of like really
famous Queens, whether they're from the Drag Race realm or from
Dragula. As you've been putting out your
work and you bit, you know, you said you'd choose certain
subject matter. Can you talk a little bit about
a moment that you got recognizedonline or you started your
online presence start to get pick up and like it made you
feel like seen as an artist? There's been several, but like I

(24:18):
I'll just go like with the most recent.
So like I like sometimes like I'll do like like little
illustration teasers and like I'll tag the drag queen or like
the drag performer on Instagram and dealt to work.
I fucking love her. She yes and she was coming here
last October, so I was so excited.
I was like I have to make her a portrait because I know she

(24:39):
loves Halloween. So I did like a little teaser
and I know she likes fan art so she saw it and followed me, but
we didn't like interact very much.
And then when I represented her with a gift like we we Kiki,
like she was so sweet and she was like enamored.
Then like for her to like give me like a shout out online was
so fucking cool. And then for her to like bring
me up on very Delta was kind of fucking crazy because I I'm also

(25:03):
friends with Boa from a Drag Race Canada.
Boa's from my city. So I love Boa.
We're both. She's from Windsor originally.
So really from. The same town, yeah.
I love her and again and someoneelse that I haven't gotten to
meet in person yet, but hopefully one day.
But it was so it was so trippy because like both of them, like
I've known her for a while online and then I just met Delta
and then like to like a couple months later, Delta is like, I'm

(25:26):
gonna, I'm gonna mention you on my channel.
I was like what and or like, or she or she said you, you came up
with conversation. I said, oh, that's crazy.
And then to have the extent of that be shown on YouTube was so
wild to me because they like plug my artwork and she and she
was just, you know, gassing me up.
And so was Boa. It was so like surreal.
It's happened before with other Queens, but like to have

(25:47):
somebody go go out of their way to do that.
It was just so like, I don't know, it was, it was just so
cool and so like affirming. I say this to almost every
guest, but like, I'm not trying to blow smoke, but I'm blowing
smoke like you have, you have such an, especially in a world
where everybody is online, everybody's a lot of creators
will post illustrations and there's so many of us.
And so to have a stamped look like once again, it's like if

(26:11):
you, if you were to look at likea Versace outfit, you'd be like,
that's Versace. You can see it, you know it,
right? And so to see it.
So I've listened to that episodeof very Delta and I had it on my
in my head, in my headphones, and then I hear them talking
because I listen because also because Boa, like I love Boa.
We go way back. I'm listening and also I'm like,
oh shit, they're talking about Columbus.

(26:31):
That's amazing to me, even though like we hadn't met at the
time. The crossover of me being a fan
of Deltas and then knowing Boa and then watching Canada's Drag
Race and then listening to the thing and then they're talking
about you. I was like, this is wild.
Like I loved it. It was, it was, it's so trippy
and like it's and like I said before, it's forever flattering
because like I feel like some artists who are in that sort of

(26:52):
like pocket that I'm in as far as like illustrating track
performers, a lot of them are more so quantity over quality
and that and that means a lot ofthings.
It means both the work they produce and also their reach
because they're trying to get like Instagram famous.
Who doesn't want to be Instagramfamous, to be honest?
But for me, it's more about likemaking those genuine connections

(27:16):
and like that's part of why I dowhat I do.
And to like make a friend like Delta is just so fucking cool to
me. Like that.
That's the reason behind it because I love, I've always been
a gift giver. I love doing that.
So like to see their face light up, like when you hand them
something like that is just so cool.
And like I do that for my friends and family.
I love to like make gifts for people and to kind of like be

(27:39):
affirmed by another artist that I look up to is just like icing
on the cake. Well, and what you say about the
connection piece brings true because you going out of your
way to go meet them at the meet and greet or whatever it's
called, and then you're like presenting them with the gift.
You, you don't have to do that. It's really easy to just, you
know, not easy. I take that back, but it's, it's
simpler. You create the illustration and

(28:02):
post it and tag them because then that gets the eyes on it.
But when you're going, you're saying, Hey, I made this, I
brought it to you. I want to present this to you to
keep there's more of a human connection to it because it's
hey, like here I am showing you like you mean something to me
and I want to present this to you.
Exactly. And and like I never post those

(28:24):
things online at all first. Like I always they're, they're
the first ones to see it, to be honest.
Like of course I, I might show friends and family that they're
looking around my hard disk. But yeah, so like, it's kind of
like they're and I'm, I'm not even sure if someone would even
know that. But like some, I love the drag
performers. They're the first ones to
physically see it. And so I just, I love their

(28:44):
reactions. It's so cool.
I honestly love to see it and I,I find it so interesting.
And now, you know, it's been like this for a while now, but
we live in a world where we're so easily, like we can connect
with people so easily because ofsocial media.
And like, on that note, like I years ago did an illustration of
Sherry Vine and I posted it and she messaged me and was like, I

(29:08):
love it. Like, and now so many years
later, like we're in talks of using that illustration from
like 2016 on her merch. And so like her and I have been
like DM ING and like trying to and I'm like, I love this.
I think this is so cool. Like and I I want nothing from
her. Like I just to me, I'm like, I
want to, I want my art to be outthere and to have somebody who I

(29:30):
I'm sorry, but sure, Yvonne's iconic and to see her being
like, I love your work. I'm like, is she?
I literally was like she's in myDMS like this is.
Crazy, I love that. I'm like, I love her from like
the era of like the the RuPaul holiday special from like 93,
you know what I mean? Like if that's when I first knew
who she was like as a kid watching that and being like,
who are these? Who are these beautiful women?

(29:51):
You know what I mean? And now so many years later, I'm
like, this is crazy. It's so cool.
I love it. I remember seeing like, like
RuPaul back in the 90s and I waslike, I remember like, it's one
of those things like you when you're a kid, you don't really
have the, the language to articulate how you feel about
this seeing queer people or, or someone different like that.
And I was just like, wow, he, he, she is so cool.

(30:11):
Like I was just like, I was like, what is going on?
And and they always had funny roles in movies.
So I was like, who is this person?
Oh, yeah. And then you keep seeing her
popping up like in Sabrina, like, and things like that.
I'm like, I'm like, wait, that'sand then you're put.
And now it's, it's so crazy to see the trajectory, especially
because we're old enough now to have seen from the early days to

(30:33):
now and like the empire that's been built.
It's so wild. It is wild.
And I do want to point back to you about as far as like like
when you said like you, you illustrated Sherry.
Like what kind of got me startedwith like doing drag art was
it's so funny because I don't think she even knows this, but
like Alyssa Edwards was the first track when I ever drew
back in 2013. So it was it was on the cast of

(30:55):
season 6 about the premiere. So she was plugging Lagonda back
then and shout out to Daniel Cole and with hard candy events
because he's the reason that like, I'm always able to meet
these Queens like during the weekdays and sometimes at
weekends. And he like hosts events like in
like the Midwest, like for thesetours.
And so he brought, he brought Alyssa to Kentucky back in 2013

(31:16):
and she was the first one I've ever drew.
It was so silly. I, I knew she liked Christmas.
So I drew Alyssa as Mrs. Santa Claus and, and like, it's, it's
deep on my Instagram still and, and, and just to see her
reaction, she was like floored. And like when they were exiting
because we're like, we were still at the club.
She turns to her assistant and then she said, used to have my

(31:39):
picture and I knew exactly what she meant because there was no
artwork. And then he was like, I got it
in the bag and she said, OK, good.
And then she was like, happy. It was just so cool.
And so I feel like that kind of like catapulted me to be like,
OK, I like that reaction. I like seeing them get these
sorts of gifts. So I just kept getting better at

(32:00):
it. And that's nice because I've
seen clips of Queens talk about how like they don't care about
the, the art, like they're like whatever.
And so when you get the opposite, where people are
actually connecting with your work and it's, it's safe to say
that you know, you're, you're making an impact in how you do
it, your approach. And I don't know, I'm just, I
love what you do. Like I, I, I don't want to be

(32:20):
lame and just be that, you know,like a gassing up queen.
But like, it's the truth. Like I genuinely love what you
do. I think it's so cool.
So I'm I'm not surprised that that's the reaction you're
getting. And I appreciate that.
And I, I think like as a societywhere like people are kind of
like always straying away from like genuine stuff anymore.
So I just, I really appreciate hearing that.
Thank you. I, I feel like a lot of people

(32:41):
are kind of like, oh gosh, sincerity.
Yuck. And I'm like, no, I'm, I'm very
mushy and I love to gas people up and I love to just blow each
other's ass, I guess, or like, whatever the phrases.
I just, I just want to blow smoke in everybody's ass.
So yeah. No, I'm the same.
Honestly. To me, I can't be like,

(33:01):
especially now you see a lot of people being like everyone's
trying to be. Cool and trying to be sexy and
like. No one smiles in pictures.
I'm like, I just, it's so not me.
Like I can't. I'm not that girl.
No, it's like that gets exhausting.
I'm just like I'm my default is goofball and just I that that
the whole sexier loop shit and it never turned me on to begin

(33:24):
with. So no, I just, I'm like, OK, do
what you want I guess, but I'm going to be goofy and silly and
make friends so. And to me, that's if you're
putting that out there, like you're going to attract people
with that same frequency. And so that's like to me, I
don't want to attract people that don't vibe with me.
What's the point? What are we doing?
You know what I mean? Have you ever like been like in
a group of like aloof people? It is not fun.
I'm like, oh, everyone's so hot and cool and quiet.

(33:47):
Like it's, it's not fun. It's the worst and like I
remember because I lived in Toronto for like 9 years and
going out and like, you know, I had my friends.
So don't get me wrong. Like I had people around me who
were very like a lot similar aligned, whatever.
But you know, you go to these like bigger parties and I'm not
like a circuit party person. Like I, it's the music's
terrible. I can't do it.
It's just not for me. Everyone is like so like they

(34:09):
just don't, they, there's not a friendliness to it.
And so going to these things, I'm like, I don't, I don't feel
good about myself. Yeah.
I feel awful. Why would I continue to try to
be part of this this thing that is not accepting me?
Mm hmm. Yeah, circuit parties are not
for me. Like I wasn't much of A partier
anyway, but like I've always attracted to like the lesbians,

(34:33):
the Goths, the queers all like all those people are like my
people. So I think that's also why I
love the drag scene mostly like like with alternative Queens
especially because it's just, it's chill, everybody's silly.
It's a much better time. Growing up in high school, like
I was part of my group of friends was, we were all nerds,
whether it was like the drama kid, the the art kids, like we

(34:56):
were such a mash up of differenttypes of geek that at my core,
like I'm still that person, I'm still that kid.
And so I, I never really relatedto the like, like that's just
not, I can't do it. It was a great description
actually. Yeah, it's, it's it's so funny

(35:18):
because like everything's full circle.
Like I, you know, IA lot of my alternative friends have like
spread out, you know, in our adulthood.
But then like I think meeting more people who are like like
minded Goths and stuff today it's I'm just like my people.
It's like it came full circle. So.
Yeah. Exactly.

(35:40):
You said you have you work like full time, right?
Mm hmm. What is it like balancing client
work and then your personal projects?
Like I know you had mentioned the potential of a graphic novel
or like a children's book. Like how do you balance all of
those things in your day-to-day?So here's the thing.
I, I'm very jealous and envious of people, my, my fellow art

(36:03):
peers who have partners, becausewhen you have a like in this,
another subject is, you know, the fact that they can't afford
anything anymore. But like a lot of my friends
have like spouses and partners who they have dual incomes and
they're able to pursue their passions.
And then there are other partners like baby, you go
through you and pursue your artwork.

(36:23):
But then when you're someone who's single and you're by
yourself, it's kind of like you're having to make it work
for yourself. And so I, it's really hard to
find the mental strength to, andphysical strength, to be honest,
to work in an 8, an 8 hour shiftand then to sit down again and
then work on more stuff. So it's like it's, it's, I don't

(36:45):
think anybody ever really cracksthe code apart from exhaustion.
And like, I have chronic health issues too.
So it's kind of like trying to find the right day where I have
an esteem to power through and like do a whole drawing.
And as far as like my personal projects, those, unfortunately
those have taken a back burner because it's just a lot to like

(37:06):
build your own little thing, especially like when you're
trying to make it into somethingelse bigger, like like a book, a
graphic novel. And so I still haven't really
cracked the code with that. I'm still trying to figure that
out myself. So yeah, it's just there's not
enough hours in the day to be honest.
And that question is like, yeah,it's like interview question,
whatever. But it's also like asking for a
friend. You know what?

(37:27):
I. Mean, yeah.
I, I still, my boyfriend always says to me like, you've got to
you need more balance. You need to and I'm like, I, I
have the hardest time because I do want to do the side projects.
I do want to do the client work.I do want to try things out.
I want to do it all and also, you know, run the business and
manage clients and all this and looks like I'm, I'm at the point

(37:49):
where I'm like, OK, something has to change.
And it's like when you get to that point, I think, I think
this is, I speak for myself, butI think it's one of those
moments where you hit burnout more frequently than you did
before. And it's like, what do I need to
do? What are the steps that I need
to take to alleviate or to streamline or to stop doing

(38:10):
certain things or like, I don't want to do these projects
anymore. I don't want to work on these
things specifically. Like I talk about like design,
right with clients, like I want to do these certain projects or
certain industries I want to work with.
So like that kind of is helping,but it's, it's tough when it's
just you, right? Yeah, we're not, we're not big
businesses, We're not conglomerates.
So it's like, how do you, you can't do it's, it's hard to be
this, this army knife of runninga running the show.

(38:33):
Yeah, it really is. And like, it also doesn't help
when I'm and I'm. And I'm sure you can attest to
this too. As a creative, we're kind of
like like especially with the rise of AI, you know, fuck AI.
I'm just going to go and put that out there.
The fact that like society, the first thing that ever gets cut
when it comes to, I guess money is the arts.

(38:54):
And but The thing is like the whole world, like, like
everybody wants gorgeous things.Everybody wants the world to be
beautiful. But I'm like, that's an artist's
position. But then we're not treated like
an actual career path. They say that we are.
But it's like the fact that I have friends who have worked for
like Blizzard, like the gaming company for like small
contracts, like for two or threeyears.

(39:14):
And then once that contract is over, they get the boot because
of they're looking for new designers.
So there's no like solid footingas far as being a creative
concept artist or or anything ofof the sort to be like easily
accessible careers basically. And so it just sucks because
like as a society like, or even globally, I'm sure too, it's

(39:34):
like the arts are kind of like the first thing people want as
far as like making the world more beautiful within their
business. But then they don't treat us
properly or pay us. So then we resort to having a
day job and then having to do our passions on the side.
So it's just not built for us. And that's kind of like it's a
detriment, but it's like some people make it work because they

(39:56):
have to. I don't know what's going to
shift it. I really don't, especially with
it is crazy. Like even the other day my
sister was like, oh, look at this thing that I asked Chad GPD
to create and it's like a picture of her in her room with
like all these florals in her cat and you know, they're
hanging out or whatever. It looked amazing.
It was gorgeous. But I'm like, that took how many
seconds to make? And then because the AI thing

(40:16):
when it comes to art, I'm not about, I'm not about it when it
comes to like helping me and other things like, you know, I
use it for this. Like I, I, the software I use
helps me click, yeah, finds clips in the interview.
It helps me like put a little post together like a written
thing and whatever that. And that way it's like, sure,
you're helping facilitate the day like mundane tasks.

(40:37):
It's one of those things where like, and like you said, I like
AI for the fact that it makes life easier as far as the grunt
work, as far as like little likeorganize my calendar or
whatever, or like organize my video clips.
But like when it comes to like, I'm choosing the same trend to
where like AI art is like takingover a lot of avenues.
And but it's not just art, it's also creative writing and music.

(41:00):
So we have like people out here like turning in college homework
using AI. So it's like it's not regulated
and like everything that that kind of like requires the human
experience with like writing andart making and music.
Hypothetically, what does society look like?
If we're just going to like let AI do all the stuff for us, like
all all the creative juicy stuff, Why would why would we do

(41:21):
like let a robot do that? We are like minutes away from
becoming the Wall-e universe. Where?
Have you seen a movie? Yes.
Where we're just. Sitting and we're just floating
and consuming. That's all we do.
And it's, it's, it's when that movie came out like almost 20
years ago, I was like, oh, this is where we're headed.
And now we're like actually in it.

(41:41):
It's. We're here.
I know it's so scary and and that's why, that's why you and
I, we have to keep doing our thing.
We have to keep keep going and not and not letting the bullshit
stop us because by doing that you're giving into it, right?
Something that I love seeing online is the fact that like, if
you, if you check the comment sections, a lot of the pro AI
are people get ratioed hard because it's so nice to see that

(42:05):
like the average, which person supports art, like like true
art. And so you'll get like somebody
who's being hateful online aboutlike, oh, like AI is going to
replace a lot of artists. Like it's just, it's just what
it is. And then you'll have like 40,000
people comment and like one person's, you know, joke like,
no, artists aren't going to go anywhere.
So to me, it's nice to see that like the majority of the average

(42:29):
citizen is on is on our side andthat the AI, even though so many
companies and corporations are trying to push it, a lot of like
normal people still support working artists.
So I like seeing that. Is that what ratioed means?
Yeah, so like, I just love. Them like I'm not that cool.
So like if you're, if you're saying I'm getting ratioed, it

(42:51):
means you're getting more comments than likes because the
comments are tearing your ass up.
Yep. I'm not that cool.
I didn't know what I was. There's so many terms.
I'm like, what I'm like, I've never heard that before.
And so I always feel like I'm such an old lady.
Looking at your career, like what has been the biggest

(43:11):
challenge that you faced as an illustrator online and in the
art world other than outside of that, that bubble?
Getting paid with I'm in like, yeah, so it's so funny because
like I've got so many art friends who they, they, they've
had like little minor issues with like clients not paying.

(43:32):
I feel like a lot of us go through that.
But but like I've I'm going to, I'm going to be good.
And I'm not going to name names,but there have been so many
points. Name them.
Yeah, there have been so many points in my art career, like my
self-employed art career, especially like with fashion
illustration and drag related stuff, that I've had so much

(43:54):
plagiarism, like plagiarism and also people commissioning me to
do something and then all of a sudden they don't have the
money. So it's.
Yeah. And like one of the scariest
parts. And like, me and this person
don't interact. We still follow each other.
So, because I'm gonna keep my eye on her, but this one drag

(44:15):
queen who's part of a very famous drag family, by the way.
OK. She tried to rebrand her entire
drag identity as in my artwork work.
What do you mean? So the little monster face
designs that I've done before. So she made a costume without my
consent. She made merchandise of that

(44:36):
monster costume with one of my fellow friends who had no idea
that that I, that I didn't give permission.
He thought everything was cool. So he made the March for her
thinking everything was chill. So there was merch, there was
photo shoots and all this craziness.
And then like all of her branding on her Instagram was
now the monster face with her face above it.

(44:56):
So it was like, it was literallymy work, but as her entire
Instagram identity. And I was like, and it was like
overnight. It was like I, I heard about it
from a friend, thank goodness. And so I was able to kind of
like message her the day that she debuted her persona or
whatever. And and granted, this person is

(45:17):
like probably at 20,000 Instagram followers, so way
above me and it just really sucked because that's been the
scariest part because I've had people like not pay me before
and whatever and then I'm actually get paid.
But this was like full on art identity theft.
And I've had people like make the costumes before and like and

(45:37):
like not get permission, but this was like fully making an
entire, this is my brand. And then the fact that
merchandise was involved too, Itwas so bad.
But thankfully I was able to scare her enough to get paid.
So I got paid and within like a few months, she rebranded again.
All that was gone. I was like, see, if I didn't
stick up for myself then she would have used her 20,000

(46:01):
followers and just kept moving. And you know who knows?
No matter what, you know, we want to say like, oh, like we,
we need to get along and, or we need, you know, we're both
artists, like we should be supporting each other.
But like people are trash no matter what they where, what
part of the world they fall intoor society, whatever.
There's trash people everywhere.And I just don't understand, in

(46:23):
a world where everything is visible, you could everything is
recorded, everything is online. Like it's like the the guy at
the at the Coldplay concert, Like, dude, there's cameras
everywhere. You're not going to get away
with it. Like what?
Are you know you? Live in the in the Big Brother
state, you know what I mean? Like, come on.

(46:44):
So it's so wild to me that people think they're just going
to get away with it. And so like, what was, what was,
what was the back and forth likewhen you were like, what the
fuck? So, and like this and, and like
no shade because, you know, she said there was a language
barrier, which I understand, butalso is there a language barrier
because you were able to pay thecostume creators and the
photographers and the XYZ. So for me, I'm like, I'm not

(47:07):
really buying that, but I at 1stand it's so funny because like,
I'm glad, I'm glad you brought this up.
I I'm trying to switch gears andbe less nice because I think
with my with like the ship that I've experienced and I've
experienced a lot, a lot of bullshit.
Like I would say once or twice ayear there is a plagiarism scare
and that's why I've been trying to work on building a contract
so that way I can at least protect myself.

(47:28):
It's just all that by itself is Lee is the legal shit is so
confusing to me and for lot. But I think I've been way too
nice to people because I've had friends like, Oh yeah, like be
be more blunt, like tell them exactly how you feel, but don't
be mean. Just say, hey, take that down
please. And for me, I'm over here trying
to be like, hey, I'm a human shit.
Like I try to be all like nice and shit.

(47:49):
And like I'll say, you know, I've got medical bills to pay
and like, I can't afford not getting paid or like my work
getting stolen. So I just need to cut all that
out and just be like, hey, you're, you're, this isn't the
right thing to do. So you probably need to like,
you know, come correct. Yeah.
And it's one of those moments where especially if you're more
of a soft spoken person. Or you're.
Not that aggressive isn't the word, but you're just like you

(48:09):
said, blunt. Yeah.
You're kind of like outside of your comfort zone and you're
like, this doesn't feel natural to me, but in sometimes a bitch
needs to hear it. You.
Know what I mean? When?
It's like, don't like enough, like I'm, I spent so much time
on this work and now you're justgoing to replicate it and
present it as your own. Yeah, One time I had this was
years ago. So on the topic of Spice Girls,
I had done, back when I used to work for Swiss Embassy, I used

(48:32):
to do like illustrations for their T-shirts and stuff.
And I'd done a Spice Girls illustration which I posted on
my Instagram. You can find it somewhere.
And then I think he had found somebody online who had
replicated and was doing the same thing.
So literally it was, I have pictures of like screenshots of
it where this guy had taken the illustration and it was like a

(48:54):
very specific, like they were drawn like like a fashion
illustration, like very slender,like long extended whatever.
And it was traced over top. So it was like the same, the
same leg structure, the same arms, the same pose, the same
order in which I put them, the same heads, but he just changed
like the colors and then like maybe what the patterns that
they were wearing. And at first I was in this was

(49:16):
2016. So it was like almost 10 years
ago. I was in my 20s and I was like,
Oh my God, this is ridiculous. I got so mad.
And then I just, I was like, hey, what's he's really, what's
he doing with it? Nothing.
And like it was different than your situation.
And then I kind of was like, is this a sign that I'm on my way
to making it because people are copying me?

(49:38):
I'm like, so now I'm like, oh, well, you know, someone does it
like they're making money off it.
That's annoying. But in this case I was like
letter like let them you know. Yeah.
So like it makes me go into fight or flight when it happens
because like the scenario that Imentioned happened in 2023 and
this is like amidst like me likegetting a lot of traction from a

(49:59):
lot of Dragula girls back in, in2023.
And so to have that plagiarism happen at that level, I was
like, do I go for the jugular? But then I was like, let me be
nice. And so, yeah, through being
nice, I've been able to get paid.
So it's one of those things where I'm kind of like me
actually more of a bitch and more, it'd be more blunt.
But like, let me let my approachfor me is let me be nice first

(50:22):
to like check the temperature, see what they do.
And then if they get mouthy or or don't say something that I
like, that's when because I'm capable of it.
It's just I don't want to leave with that.
So like I am like, yeah, I want to be nice first.
Yeah. So I'm like, let me go ahead and
be nice. And then if I don't like what
they say, then I've already got screenshots.
There's receipts. So.

(50:43):
But I think people just don't have shame like A. 100%.
Because my thing is like I, I, Iget the imitation is the most
sensitive for from a flattery, but also why are there no tags?
Why like why can't you like mention the the person you got
the inspo from? And I think it comes down to it
might be I'm not, listen, I'm not a psychologist.

(51:04):
I'm not going to sit here and therapize anybody.
I think, I think people are wanting attention and they want
to have something that they think is cool and they want to
take credit for it. And I'm like, that's, that's a
deeper issue with your, with your psyche than it is about me.
Because and for a while, like, Ican't, like I would get so down

(51:24):
on myself because I'm like, why is my work getting stolen every
year? And then I'm like, I'm a bad
bitch and like, my work is bad. So like, that's why they keep
copying it. And so I kind of had to like,
you know, build up confidence and like, you know, that's why
they're doing it. I don't know if they're insecure
with their own work, but like they, they, they, they're
craving that, that online attention or whatever to be a

(51:45):
creative. And I'm like, it's that's not
it. It's not going to bode well for
you in the long run. Like you're not going to like,
again, me being genuine. I think it I would feel shitty
stealing from somebody. So yeah, 100.
Percent. If you're creative, you're an
artist, you're pretty, you're presenting yourself as that.
Why the fuck are you going out there and taking from other

(52:07):
people? It just doesn't make sense to
me. Like anytime I and like I have
clients sometimes where they're like, Oh, I love this.
They give me a reference and they're like, I want to
replicate this. I'm like, no, I'm not doing
that. Yes, there's influence.
There's reference in the sense of I'm seeing this as an
inspiration for a designer brandor whatever, But I'm never like

(52:29):
write out copying because I don't want, Hey, my name is
attached to it. I'm like, that would look so
bad. And and to me, it's the I don't,
I don't understand the disconnect from I will
potentially be caught. Like how does that not run to
your head? And how do you just disregard
that? Like I said, we live in a world
where everything is recorded, everything is there are receipts

(52:50):
for everything now, like, you know what I mean?
I just don't understand it. I've been very fortunate where
like I've had a handful of friends who have come to me and
say, Hey, hey, girl, you might want to see this.
And like in the, in the case that happened in 2023, like with
the whole branding thing, One ofmy friends is a really good
photographer in Mexico City and he saw the video clips of their

(53:11):
drag family making these costumes and, and about to do
their whole coming out party. And he was like, I'm I'm furious
for you, you know, do you want me to say anything?
I was like, let let me just say something.
So go. Directly.
Yeah, and like, and like, of course, like I'm, I live in the
USI don't have like close connections with any friends in
Mexico. But to have him kind of like be

(53:31):
like one of my long distance social media friends to kind of
like reach out and say, Hey, I want to show you something just
so you're aware, because otherwise I wouldn't have known.
So it's, it's nice when people are in your corner and they and
they're, they have integrity andthey want to protect you as a
creative too. So I, I've been very fortunate,
but like most of the, of the times that I've had my work

(53:53):
stolen or copied, it's the universe was, you know, looking
out for me. But like every, almost every
single time I've had a friend that that's been able to stand
up for me and they'll, and they'll be in the comments and
hey, girl, this is a lot like Columbus work.
What's going on? So that that's been nice.
Because you got to have friends.And I love when they're like,

(54:17):
like, hey, should we go for the jugular?
And I'm like, let me be nice first.
So like I've got the option. Once I had a client, this is
like early days. I don't even know I should say
this, but in early days. So I was like a year, not even a
year in and I had this client who the red flag that I catch
sooner than later is always like, Oh yeah, we, you know,

(54:38):
we're very scarce. Our budget is small, like blah,
blah, blah. And at the time I was just
taking any work I could just to get, start building a portfolio
outside of my like, you know, agency work.
Before I was doing it, I did allthe work.
I now I have structures in placewhere like at the time I was
like, yeah, upon completion, like I'll, you know, pay me when
we're done. A month goes by and they owe me

(54:58):
like a few $1000. Like it wasn't like pennies.
And then I start like emailing them daily.
I start calling them daily. I'm like leaving emails.
I'm like, I need the money. Like I need the money.
I was at my parents place and I was talking to my mom in the
kitchen about what? Like, you know, the same
situation, what was going on? And my dad had gotten home from
work and he's like, 'cause he could see I was like distressed.

(55:21):
And he's like, what's my, my dad's immigrant Italian.
He's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, oh, like those
people, like they're just, they haven't paid me.
Like they were just, they're ignoring me.
And he goes, where are they? He's like, you need me to come
with you. And I go, no, we're not doing
that. We're not doing.
That I love that. That's so cute.

(55:41):
He's. Like where are they?
Where do they live? I was like, no, we're not doing
that. He's like, no, we're just, we're
just going to go Taco. That's crazy.
I love that. Oh man.
See, I would be tempted. Let's let's ride, let's go.
Yeah, you're like one more fucking time and I'm.
I'm in. Yup, if I if I don't see a
dollar sign trying to pop up on my Ben Moore PayPal, I'm going

(56:04):
to come. That's so cute though.
You know, you talked a little bit about putting yourself out
there online. What advice would you give other
creatives who like, want to reconnect with that sense of
play in their work, where they can still tap into that thing
that was the reason they startedin the first place?
I, I just was actually telling one of my friends about this

(56:27):
recently because he had stopped art for like 10 years and then
he like jumped back into it. So like I, I always encourage
folks to kind of like find time for it because I feel like, you
know, the grind of society is just like we, we oftentimes like
forget what we enjoy as adults. Like we just give up on gaming
and give up on artwork. And we're just trying to like

(56:48):
unwind and like not think about stuff.
And I'm like, we, it's, it's, itfeels really good to like, to
like reconnect with those parts of yourself.
So like I was saying, my friend,recently I was just like, you
know, feed that like it because you don't know what you're going
to get out of it. So like, if you if you feel good
doing it, keep at it. Like even if your stuff is bad
or you're rusty, like it's it practice makes perfect for a lot

(57:11):
of people. So I feel like if you feel any
sort of inkling to, to create something, whether it be 2D or
3D, pursue that because yes, it's nice to be recognized, but
also at the core of it, art is for ourselves too.
And so a lot of folks like don'trealize like the the euphoria
that you get from like creating something and having other

(57:34):
people like recognize that too. So it's, it's just nice to kind
of like, I don't know, like keepat it, like even like when you
have those days, it's not stick breaks, you know, we all need
breaks. But it does feel good to kind of
like jump back into it after a little while.
And then just, I don't know, it's, it's almost indescribable
the joy you get from from creating something that that you

(57:57):
like the the end result of. And it's so cheesy because
everyone says this, but it's acknowledging the inner child.
Like as a kid, think about it. And I know I can assume that you
were the same spending hours alone drawing and just loving
just being in that moment and that energy.
Now, you know, we become jaded as adults.
And it's like the fact that I have to think about making money

(58:20):
to pay my bills is destructive to that joy that you have as a
kid. And so to me, it's like, just
think about what would little Geo do?
What would little Columbus do? You know what I mean?
And it's easier said than done because we live in this fucking
world where we have to work, youknow what I mean?
And pay our bills. Capitalism.
Yeah, it's 100. Percent.

(58:41):
I think a lot like, not to get all woo woo, but it's very much
like. I live in that world.
So yeah, go. For it, it's.
Like everything is connected. Like if we if we had more
comfortable lives and we made enough money to and make enough
money to thrive and not just survive, but thrive on top of
that, being able to have maybe 4day work weeks instead of five

(59:05):
because other countries are doing that and the amount of
happiness that people have, yes,it's and so I'm like a lot of
societies are like, I'm not catching up to that yet.
And just that alone would like be able to kind of alleviate a
lot of the negativity and turmoil that we have, like, in
the human experience. Because I feel like if we had

(59:27):
more time off, we will be able to experience the world and
create and all this. And I feel like a lot of older
generations are like, oh, you just want to sit around and draw
all dating grapes. Yeah, actually, I do.
I would like to sit around all dating grapes and read books
because I feel like it's we're just in this constant capitalist
grind and like everything that like we should be experiencing,

(59:50):
we're not getting to. I don't for a second believe
that our purpose on this planet was to pay taxes like.
That's not why we're. Here, like we've been, we are
here to experience what the world is like.
There's nature and each other and connection and love and all
these things that. That's why we're here and the

(01:00:11):
powers that be, I, this is my how I view things.
It's like they want to keep us at a lower frequency by putting
us through constant fear, anger,the division that's going on.
Like when we are in, when we sitin that those energies, we
aren't actually like reaching our true potential, which I
truly believe there's something to be said about connection as a

(01:00:31):
whole, as a planet, as a species, we are not ever going
to get somewhere where we constantly think about, well,
you don't, you're different thanme.
It's like, I don't like, can we fucking move on?
Like we've already. Gotten there, like let's, let's
keep going. And so I think that that's how,
what keeps us in that, that lowered state, which when we're
in that lowered state, the firstthings to go are the like

(01:00:51):
luxuries of connection and arc and creation.
Like we're, we're, we're thinking about survival and then
those things drop off and I don't know, I, I don't know
where the world is going. I mean, you know, I really hope
that things can be turned around, but I feel like
something major needs to happen for us to be like for the, for
the masses, because I see it that way.
You see it that way, but the majority of people are so I, I,

(01:01:13):
I just, it's so outside of how Ioperate and so I don't know.
Yeah, it's the world. Needs more artists.
For for real, I feel like a lot of people like don't like don't
comprehend how like intellectualand kind of like again, whoa,
whoa. Like as creatives, we're always
like daydreaming. And when it comes to like
fantasy and sci-fi, they're evenlike authors.

(01:01:36):
They'll explore the ideas of society that like living in a
utopia, like even Star Trek has themes of like, what does
society look like if all of our needs are met?
Like if, if, if everybody had food and everybody had enough
money to whatever and like theirkids are happy and their old
folks are taking care of. What does society look like when
you when you set aside religion and differences and everything

(01:01:58):
else. If all that's on the side and
all of our needs are met, we would be so much happier and we
would be able to be to be traveling in space by now and
colonizing other worlds and meeting other aliens.
But instead it's like all these powers that be, they want to
keep us subjugated and they wantto keep us a slave labor when it
comes to the, the court, the thecorporate machine.

(01:02:18):
And, you know, we only realized that like like some, I'm glad
that some younger folks now are realizing that a lot earlier.
Whereas me, I didn't realize that until like my late 20s or
late 30s, I was like, actually, you know what?
I don't like working all the time.
Like I we should be able to kindof like be more comfortable and
like explore life, but instead we get to retire when we hit 65
or 70 and we're and we're almostdead at that point.

(01:02:39):
So yeah. Literally, what are we doing?
What are we doing here? Yeah.
So like, not to be like super like nihilist about about it,
but like, it does it does suck till I kind of sit around, think
about. And I feel like a lot of a lot
of artists think about that because, yeah, we've unlocked
that part of our brains where we're like, hey, we can live in
a in a utopia. We just choose not to.
The way we'll get there is this like is through connecting with

(01:03:03):
other like minded people and andgrowing that network of those
that we surround ourselves with who are actually like minded
because this gives me hope. Like genuinely this kind of
thing where we can chat and shoot the shit talk shop, but
also connect on a human level. Like that's the thing.
I'm like, OK, yes, I'm not aloneeven though I don't really feel
alone, but it can feel so lonelyand.

(01:03:25):
Overwhelmed, especially with our, with our online political
climate. It's kind of like you get in
like these dark holes of despair.
And that's why like a lot of my close friends are, you know,
extremely open minded and like leftist.
And we talk about this stuff because it's, you know, I don't

(01:03:45):
know, it's just, it's nice to connect with actual humans about
these topics. Yeah.
And like, I appreciate you taking the time to do this, like
in to have a conversation with me.
And it means so much. Like I said it, it's like, you
know, you say like when you feelacknowledged online and people
are like showing your work and they like, like your work.
It's like when I have the ability to a connect to somebody

(01:04:06):
online previously, like you, andthen also have you say, yeah,
let's have a conversation. And then it's like, oh, we are
like on the same page. It's it's it's very like
heartwarming. It makes me feel seen and makes
me feel like I'm in the right place and I'm doing the right
thing to me. Like to put these conversations
out. There's so much shit content out
there. Like there's so much bad stuff

(01:04:27):
that we're consuming. And like, not that I'm going to
change the world. I don't really think that.
But if I can put something out there that is positive and it's
like showing like, you know, gives people hope to like keep
working or keep trying and keep doing the thing, like that's
like that's the, the thing I could ask for, you know?
And like when you, when you describe your channel, I was
like, this is amazing. Like I, I need more positive

(01:04:48):
sort of like channels like this to kind of like give me more
hope. So I I very much appreciate that
being part of it now. Yeah.
So we're nearing the end and I ask every guest the same
recurring questions made like final segment.
So my whole platform is around branding, like that's my thing
and having people talk about their work, their brands,

(01:05:08):
etcetera. But look at this from a more
like maybe like Google Earth view perspective, but like what
would you say is the most on brand thing about you?
What's on brand for me is watching really, really scary
movies that are really traumatizing.
But then as I'm watching, I'll be playing Animal Crossing on my

(01:05:29):
Switch. So like.
Picture in picture. Yeah, it's like, it's like, I'm
just like, oh, like you like little Animal Crossing world and
I'm, I'm going to go build a little cute garden and then you
look up and I'm like watching something gory and a massacre.
It's like two sides. It's like the two.
Your two last two brain cells are like polar opposites.
Yes, it's like, it's like there,there are two wolves inside you

(01:05:50):
and, and that's me. It's it's horror, terror,
trauma. And then it's cute little
animals that that speak gibberish.
Like a jiggly puff. I love, love me some Pokémon.
Oh my God. I know it, it just got it got
too much like by the end I'm like there's so many I couldn't
follow it. The ghost Pokémon are very on
brand for me too. I love me some ghost ghost

(01:06:12):
Pokémon. Absolutely.
Is that like Gengar and? There's actually a newer one
that I'm obsessed with because II'm actually a fish nerd.
I live, I live, I live in marinebiology.
And so there was actually a fishghost that came out with like
one of the recent gems and it's so cool.
I love fish and I love ghosts, so it just came together.

(01:06:35):
I love. That and and that's another
thing too, like going back to illustration is the amount of
different iterations of the characters within Pokémon.
Like they're so cool and some ofthem I love that some of them
are like almost like human hybrids now, like more that like
I think the first humanish 1 waslike, who is the like the rock
1? He was like the, he was like the

(01:06:58):
big like muscle. Oh, Machoke.
Yeah. Macho macho man.
There's been so many gay memes of that one.
Oh my God. Obsessed.
I love it. Well, I want to thank you,
Columbus so much for taking the time.
I know I said it a few times during the episode, but I really
appreciate you coming to chat with me and just it's so nice to

(01:07:21):
meet the person behind behind the art.
Thank you for having me too. It's been a pleasure and it's
also been fun getting to know you too because like, we've not
gotten to talk ever, like face to face.
So I've I've really enjoyed my time.
Are you in Louisville or no? Are you in Kentucky?
So I'm in Kentucky, but I'm in Lexington, so it's kind of like
it's an hour and a half east of Louisville, so.

(01:07:44):
OK. So I ask because typically once
a year because I have family in Florida, Yeah.
And so I will drive down throughthe states to go see and we
always go through Kentucky. So like if I add tack on some
extra time, I can come say hi that.
Would be so fun, I would love to.
Me too, honestly, I had another guest who's in Florida and and

(01:08:04):
she same situation like I'd never, I hadn't really met her
and shout out doctor Garland episode 10 And I had people
being like, oh, like your friendand I was like, Oh, we we had
just met on the podcast, like wenever interacted before and
people being like, I thought youguys have known each other
forever. And she was like, come visit me
in Florida. And I was like, absolutely I
would. Love, Yeah.

(01:08:24):
I love that this this platform is allowing me to connect with
other creatives as well. So it's it's very special.
Yeah, definitely come through Kentucky and I will definitely
show you around. I would love that honestly.
So if anyone listening would love to connect with you, follow
you online, you know, send you send you a Venmo for real.
How can they? How can they do that?

(01:08:45):
Thankfully, like I've I've changed a lot of my handles to
like the same. So, so it's it's mostly
streamline now, So just at Columbus Heath.
So that's most of my social medias now.
So like Venmo for sure, PayPal and it's under, it's under at
Columbus Heath. But yeah, Instagram, I am now
under Columbus Heath. Go check it out.
Honestly, his stuff is amazing. And to anybody who would like to

(01:09:06):
connect with me on design or branding, you can reach out to
methroughgeographic.com, follow the podcast on Spotify, Apple
podcast, subscribe to the YouTube, write a comment, leave
a review. I would love it.
Helps me with algorithm and Columbus.
I want to thank you again and we'll talk soon.
Thank you. Thanks.
For having me, bye bye.

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