Skincare & Fembots & Comics (Oh My!) with Angela Hodge

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I am 67 years old. I can't keep up this.
Who is your doctor? I need to go.
I need their number. Yeah, it's it's me and Lindsay
Lohan. That is okay.
Sorry, that is I don't believe that that's actually her.
Like it's, it doesn't even look.It's like a new person was

(00:21):
replacing her. She's like a fembot.
What? Happened.
Yes, it literally. I agreed.
There's a few of them like that where I'm like, that is not the
same person. Christina Aguilera, same thing
like. 100% Gwen Stefani looks. She's 50.
Jlo. They don't look human.
No, they're superhuman. I I hope to attain that one day.
Me too. A physical inhumanity.

(00:42):
As I start to like as I'm in this this format, I'm like
really. You're gorgeous, You're
gorgeous. Don't worry.
No, anyway. But burnout.
Burnout, yeah. Oh God.

(01:18):
Welcome to another episode of Graphic Content, the podcast
where we talk all things who, why and what the fuck.
Today's guest is a self-proclaimed Jane of all
trades. She's a book illustrator,
graphic product and packaging designer.
She's an associate creative director and she's the Co
creator of the comic label Studio Alpaca.
Angela La Hodge. Yay.

(01:42):
I you. Know OMG I'm so effing pumped
that you're doing this right now.
Like this means so much to me. It's been a while, it's been a
while. It's been a while on the stage
there No legit like I I'm so happy that you did this.
I, like, made a list at the beginning of the year of like

(02:04):
who I wanted to talk to and you were definitely on there.
And I was like, hey, I really want to.
I remember us talking about podcasts in the past.
Yes. And I was like, I didn't know
when I was gonna do this projectand yadda, yadda.
And so all this time later, I feel like it was a manifestation
all those years ago. And here we are.
Yeah, it. Came full circle.
I remember saying to you back inthe day, you're like, oh, I used

(02:26):
to have a podcast and I'm like, dude, you need to get back into
that. You were.
You were meant to be seen. Oh, that's so kind.
It's very nerve wracking. I will say.
Yeah, you're. Kidding.
I had butterflies before. Like, you logged me in and I was
like, oh God, I was just gonna go.
Listen, you're, you're in good hands.
Like like you said before, we hit record.

(02:48):
Like we're shooting the shit Like it's, it's a, it's a vibe.
No, dude, it's really good to see you.
It's been a really long time. I think we met a few years ago
and we just kind of clicked. You were like, like consultant
that came in like an Angel to the company I was working for.
And yeah, you and I just became fast friends.
I know. And it's one of those things
where, you know, we don't talk every day, but it doesn't

(03:10):
matter. Like every time I see you, we
connect in such a way that is itmoves, goes beyond the roles of
what we were originally. Everybody says hi, by the way.
Hi. Hey team.
OK, so I have a really importantquestion before we get into
everything. What is your skin care routine?

(03:32):
Because going through the stuff that you sent me, your headshot,
I'm like this woman looks 15. It is crazy to me.
How do you know I'm not? Oh God, OK, I'm going to piss a
lot of people off right now because I do the bare minimum.
Me too. Right.
I, I think there's something to that.

(03:53):
I I was always told not to touchmy face a lot, which I mean I
do. But I can't.
Stop. Yeah, no.
But I use the cheapest moisturizer.
It's like Olay name drop. Sorry.
Not sponsored. Not sponsored.
Yeah, I just used like Olay. I've been using it since I was

(04:14):
really young, like probably 1516.
My mom is like, you need to use a moisturizer.
You're looking a little crusty. It has SPF in it.
It's a good routine. So yeah, I just do that and I
literally wash my face with hot water or like warm water.
That's it. I do the same.
I'm not like people like I people comment on my skin and be
like, oh, you have great skin. I'm like you do.
It's it's because I don't think I fuck with it with all the

(04:36):
chemicals and all of the different products.
Yeah, I mean, some people need it.
Some people just don't. And with me, I, yeah, I just, I
do the bare minimum and then I wear a very minimum amount of
makeup. Like I I'm wearing mascara and
chapstick. Honestly, minimal beauty tips, I

(04:57):
love it. Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, no, I would
never be able to do like a YouTube tutorial on how to apply
your makeup. Mine would be 30 seconds long.
But thank you. I appreciate that though.
That's really nice to hear to say.
Seriously, I was going through. I was like, I, I know that like
this lady, you always and I remember when we talked like a
couple years ago and I was like,we were, and I thought, I

(05:19):
honestly thought you were younger than me.
And I was like, oh, she's like got to be like, you know, fresh
in the game, like just the energy that you bring to the
table and not in any way like indisrespect, like just like a
youthful energy. And because I get that, too,
sometimes when people are like, shocked that I'm like, you know,
this side of 30. 5 Horribly immature, yeah.
Yeah, I'll own it honestly. Well.

(05:40):
Dude, I don't know if you've looked behind me, this is some
indication of maybe my personality.
I love it. OK, so please tell me like what,
what? What is the array of memorabilia
that you have behind you? There's an assortment of things
and it's it's, it's a vast collection from many years.
I just I'll see you. By the way, yeah, can you move?

(06:03):
And there's more, there's, there's other display units
around my, my studio, but I'm, I'm really into collecting
Batman paraphernalia. I, he was my man man way back in
the day. That's he got me into comic
books. Batman, Spider Man, Wonder
Woman, She Hulk. I used to love She Hulk back in
the day. So yeah, I think it was like

(06:23):
comic books were a gateway into toy collecting.
And then I remember saying when I was a little kid, I'm like
when I have a job, when I get some money, I'm going to have a
dedicated toy room. That was my dream.
I'm like, I don't even care if Ihave a house around that toy
room. It's just a cardboard.
It's like laid out. Yeah, I'm that homeless person

(06:46):
under a bridge and I'm like, come into my.
Yeah, don't say that around any kids.
That's hilarious. I.
Love it. I wonder if that's the other
thing Gio is like You and I are not parents, so.
Right. That's why we look younger.
Don't say that to parents, man. They don't appreciate that.
But it's like, I think it's, it's more like our that

(07:11):
childlike sensibility has just carried through.
I don't know. I know a lot of immature
parents, so maybe that's not thecase.
No, I think it's more like our our essence hasn't been stolen
from us. Dude, if it was just you and me
talking over over like, you know, an adult beverage, I might
have a different point of view. But I'm trying to be diplomatic.

(07:31):
Oh, absolutely. And that's a thing.
That's another thing too, right?Where you're like, oh, when
you're like, you should be seen.I'm like, yeah, that's great.
But also I, the real me, I'm like, I have to like dilute it
by a like 1015%. And by that I mean like 50%
because like all this shit I saylike I would say normally like I
can't be putting that out there.I know it's like, you know,

(07:53):
that, that the, there's like some, I don't know what if, what
the terminology is, but something around like, you know,
like something left the group chat.
Like if that was the case, I'd be like, Oh yeah, we don't want
that content going out into the world because I don't need that
out there. No, that'll come back and bite
you like 20 years from now. 20 it would be like 5 minutes.

(08:15):
I don't know. Someone out there is gonna hate
me and then do something. Yeah, I don't know how things
work nowadays. I know right, I feel like even
though I'm not like I'm not boomer vibes but I still feel
everything is going so fast. I'm from when we were coming out
of school to now like it's like a completely different.
I don't even know how to catch up.

(08:36):
I feel like even this is all like new to me.
I know and, and, and when we spoke back in the day two years
ago, whenever it was on a professional level and we were
talking about AI and it was justat the beginning, it was very
new, very fledgling. It had just hit the scene and
now it's just completely taken over.
And it's so, yeah, it's just infiltrated kind of every realm,

(09:01):
every possible realm. It's nuts.
And it's really, really hard to to keep up.
And part of me is like, I don't want to keep up.
Like I'm not a robot. Like I, I don't feel the,
especially in our field in a lotof industries, let's be real.
Like, like you need to do this. You have to stay up on this,
like be aware of this technology, make sure you're and

(09:22):
I'm like, I'm, I can't do, I just can't.
I don't have the bandwidth, you know, no pun intended.
No, to take all of that on. I think let me do what I can.
I'm making it work in my own way.
Let's it's working for now. Let's keep it going.
No, absolutely. But it is, it is difficult.
I wanted to ask you actually, doyou find it?
Do you find it tough in our industry with the proliferation

(09:47):
of AI just to stay on top of everything or you're just going
with the flow? I'm going with the flow.
Like I will say I'm using it forto help me with certain aspects
of my work. I'm sure you are in the same
boat where certain things that Ifind, you know, it's speeding up
especially more like admin stuff.
Yeah, that's kind of where I useit the most.
Like I don't use it at all for creative in the sense of doing

(10:11):
work for me. I think if it's for like
inspiration, I really do like Firefly, Adobe's AI generator.
I think that that I use it for ideation, for like visual
concepts, for illustrations. So if that's something like, OK,
let me create this scene out of my head.
I'm trying to draw this this scene.
That's kind of how I'll use it as a base, but I don't use it to

(10:35):
do the work for me. Yeah.
Do you do that? Totally.
I'm on board because I think with AII say to my my friends
who are designers and illustrators, I'm like, look,
use it as a tool. The safest hands are our own
because we're not the ones who are going to hijack ourselves.
Like, use it as a tool, use it conservatively, use it
intelligently, and use it in a way that you're not going to

(10:59):
eliminate yourself. Ding, Ding, Ding.
That's key. But use it as a tool.
I mean it's there at our at our disposal and if we don't utilize
it on a on a daily basis, then we are probably going to be left
behind at some point. Like I do feel that way.
We need to stay current. We need to stay up to date.
Honestly it's been really good the the one thing I've been

(11:20):
recently using it for is, especially when I do an intake
with a new client for branding specifically is to summarize
notes for me. Yeah, yeah.
Where I'm taking notes as I go cuz I, I personally need to
write the notes myself. Like, I don't know, like the
note takers. I'm like, it's not, I just, I
don't know. I feel like for me to process
information and to absorb it, I have to write it or type it out.

(11:43):
Yeah. And then have it summarize it
for me. And some of it I'm like, this is
better than I could do, and veryquickly.
No, I agree. I I'm a big note taker too.
And I've always, I think that's just the way I learn inherently
is to write things down and thenthat reiteration helps me absorb
it. But yeah, I mean, one of my
fears, I guess with AI is just that people are going to stop

(12:07):
knowing how to do things fundamentally.
I mean, it's already happening. I, I think I, it's, it's insane
the lack of thought behind, you know, like, oh, let me just,
this is OK, I'm not going to saynames, but I'm going to call a
friend, a friend of mine and a friend of mine asked another

(12:28):
friend to write a review for their website.
Like, Hey, can you just write like a testimonial for my
website when it was submitted? My my one friend goes, did you
use ChatGPT for this? She was like no.
And she's like, did you use ChatGPT for this?
She's like, no, no, no, I'm likeand I read it.
I'm like she does not talk like that.

(12:48):
Like that is not how she speaks.She does not write like that,
like. Repeat it then.
But like, you can't even write. Sentiment.
I'm sorry but you can't even write a testimonial for your
friend's business of a service that you've used.
That to me is wild. You don't even want to sit for
the 5 minutes and think about, OK, you know, dear friend, love

(13:09):
your business, like blah, blah, blah.
You know what I mean? Like that to me is so wild.
And come on, people, come on, You're, you're we're losing the
plot. It's disingenuous, right?
Like, come on, man. Like if, if, if we've learned
anything in the last two years, it's that AI is really good at
data, just cold calculating information.
But you need the human being to be there to warm it up, to add

(13:33):
some humanity to it. So I think it's it's always good
as a framework. And then you need to add on to.
You need to add the human touch.The meat on the bone is what
where we come in right? I at first, you know, we have
associates, creatives. It's like, oh, we're going to be
replaced. And I think about not 100%.
I really don't think that it will not.

(13:53):
Maybe not in our lifetime, but who knows.
I don't know things. Are not going to lie though, I
keep getting targeted ads to go back to school to be like a
plumber and an electrician and I'm like, oh interesting, do you
know that women can get like free education to go be a
Carpenter? Really.
Yeah. I was getting targeted ads in my
Instagram. I'm like, what is the world

(14:13):
trying to tell me right now? Switch it up.
You're not going to be able to do this long term.
That is so depressing. It's interesting though because
it's probably an AI sending me this algorithmic information and
I'm like just being manipulated every step of.
The way honestly though, I'm so over it.
Like I, I'm just, I am trying not to let it make me feel too

(14:38):
depressed because I also, you know, as you know, that you have
had so many different jobs. And I think that with the amount
of experience that we both have,which is really crazy to think,
it's crazy how fast it accumulates because the years
just pile on really quickly. But I think about all of the
different jobs that we, you know, you've had in your career.

(14:58):
And so talk to me a little bit about because I do want to go
back to the comment about Batman, OK, So not like an
origin story, but also kind of origin story.
Everybody knows that origin story.
Yeah, well, I actually don't really know the Batman origin
story, sorry. You're like logging off.

(15:20):
Where have you been in the last 80 years?
I don't know, I'm a homo. I don't, I don't really like.
I'm not. I'm not a comic book gay.
Dude, it's pretty classic. You know, his parents got shot
in an alley and he was traumatized and.
Was he an orphan? Yeah, he became an orphan.
He was raised by his Butler Alfred.

(15:41):
And then? Oh, I did know that.
Yeah, and he's a billionaire, sohe has the resources to to build
all this crazy equipment. And yet nobody puts two and two
together that maybe the guy driving around the, you know,
$1,000,000 car with all of the incredible technology is maybe
Bruce Wayne. Is is is Superman also an
orphan? In a sense, because he came from

(16:04):
Krypton, right? And his planet exploded and his
parents, his original birth parents sent him out into outer
space and he landed on Earth. And then he was adopted by two
Earthlings. So, I mean, he would, he's no
longer, he was no longer an orphan.
God dude, I'm sounding super nerdy right now.
No, listen, you don't have to sound.
Look behind you like come on sounding looking.

(16:26):
I love it. Yeah, it's.
True. I'm I'm I'm nothing if not a
consistent brand really. But that's, and that's the thing
that I, I honestly love, like I,I have like nerdy tendencies,
like for sure, there's some things that I no doubt about
whatever everybody has that to say, you know, like unless, and
if you don't honestly, in my ownopinion, get a fucking hobby,
like figure it out, you know what I mean?

(16:48):
So OK, as a kid, like what was what was the thing that kind of
got you into creative because you've been you've been on a
path where you have done so manydifferent gigs in the creative
sphere. So like, what was that?
What was your origin story when it comes to getting into that
world? I actually started drawing from

(17:10):
a really, really young age. I was hell bent on becoming a
book illustrator at some point. So when I was really, really
young, I used to create my own characters and fill books full
of really strange little doodles.
And I, I think how I started getting into comic books proper
was my, I have two older brothers and that always helps

(17:32):
to get you into anything really,because you look up to them And
they were, they were really intocomic books.
And I remember they, I think we,we used to go to Montreal to the
comic book store because I, I grew up in a small town in
Quebec, in Eastern Townships andthere were no comic book stores.

(17:53):
So my parents would have to bring us to go see my
grandparents. And then on route we're like,
can we go to the comic book store?
Like that was one of the stops. So I would buy just the bargain
bin comic books that were on sale.
And then I would redraw a lot ofthe images and that really
helped. And I remember people saying to
me later on like, oh, it's plagiarism.

(18:14):
I'm like, no, it's not plagiarism.
It's not like I was saying, thisis my work.
I'm going to get paid for this. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not an AI.
I'm not going to pass it off as my work.
It was just, it was a tool to learn how to draw anatomy and
right. And, and that was the best way
that I could learn. I by the age of 12, I was pretty

(18:36):
proficient at drawing any image that I could look at.
So and, and specifically like the comic book style.
I loved Kelly Jones, who was a comic book artist at the time in
the 90s. I'm going to age myself and I
honestly thought Kelly Jones is a female illustrator.
So I was like really into that style.

(18:57):
And then later on found out thatit was a dude and I was like,
oh, come on, come on. So, yeah.
So that's kind of how I learned how to draw.
And that that ability kind of got me into, I studied art all
through high school, all throughcollege.
I went to two different colleges.
I started out by going to Fine Arts in Quebec in CEGEP.

(19:21):
And I studied, you know, painting, drawing, life drawing,
all the fundamentals, sculpture,pottery.
And then that allowed me to get a good enough portfolio together
to go to Sheridan College in Oakville.
And that was an incredibly different, difficult program.
I studied illustration there. Very different.
Yeah, it's, it's tough because they only accept a very small

(19:42):
percentage of applicants. And because I was out of
province, they sent me a letter maybe two months before school
started. And they're just like, sorry,
you're from out of province. We're looking at all in province
applicants first. So you're probably not going to
make the cut. And they crushed my little like
19 year old soul. And I, I just had my heart set

(20:05):
on that one college. And then I swear to God, a week
or two later, I got a letter with my acceptance letter.
Why fate? But why would they do that to
me? Honestly priming you for the
disappointment of life. Oh, you want to be an
illustrator? Yeah, yeah, there's.

(20:26):
Some crushing defeat. Soul crushing defeat.
Yeah. But yeah, no, that's how I, I
kind of got into Sheridan. That's where I met my, my future
partner. He's over there.
He's he's still in bed. And yeah.
And all of my, all of my lifelong friends.
And that kind of started my my career, which ended up being
really varied. But this is the thing, I really

(20:48):
like the fact that even for myself, like having done so many
different jobs, like I've been in design, that's the majority
of my life. But the fact that we are able,
especially with our approach to creative kind of morph into
different roles. And I feel like that to me is I,
I enjoy it because it actually gives me a bit more of a like

(21:09):
holistic view of how I approach work in general.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. And, and I know we've had this
conversation before too, that we're both illustrators and that
sensibility of being like an artist and being able to draw
really well really helps with the graphic design element.
It just gives you this innate, innate like sensibility when

(21:29):
you're designing, you know, if something looks off, you know,
if something you know isn't working because you and and then
you can kind of like jot down how it should look like.
All of these skills are interchangeable.
Oh, literally, I'm in a meeting.So a friend of mine, we're we're
currently putting together an application for this design
competition. And I never do stuff like that.

(21:52):
And he he goes, hey, there's this potential thing that he is
an ideas man. He and I have worked on multiple
projects together over the years.
Shout out Ira. Yeah, I need to put that me, me,
me, me, but no So we're working on this project and we are so

(22:14):
efficient in our back and forth.We usually meet once a week.
It's been about 3 weeks we've been working on this.
And in that hour, we are so productive with just like the
back and forth and I can quicklysketch out his, what he's
thinking and I'll just like havemy iPad and boom over our Zoom
call and he's like, Yep, done. OK, let's move on.
Like, let's do it. Talking about like going back to

(22:36):
anatomy because this is always athing that illustrators talk
about. But the hands, Yep, I still to
this day have issues drawing hands.
Yeah. So like when you were in the
anatomy, like really built building up that, that skill.
Like what was your approach to hands?
Cuz I I still to this day I'm like I I drawing people like

(23:00):
this. Yeah, yes, exactly right.
Yeah. So anatomy is is incredibly
difficult for any artist, but it's like any other muscle, you
just have to keep working at it and eventually it'll become
second nature. So when I was younger, I didn't
have much of a problem with it because again, I was copying

(23:21):
illustrations that were already,from my point of view, pretty
good. So the anatomy looked great and
I could copy them almost verbatim.
But when I became older and was studying life drawing at like
Sheridan College, it became an issue where the teachers were
kind of forcing it on us. So they said we don't want any
completed drawings with no facesand no hands because faces and

(23:41):
hands are the two most difficultthings.
Anybody can plot out a torso or a general kind of pose, but
getting those details and getting the likeness is
incredibly difficult. They they fostered that within
all of the students is that you had to focus on hands and and
faces and you weren't allowed tosubmit any finalized
illustrations unless the person's back was turned.

(24:02):
I mean, come on without without a face and hands.
And it was funny because when I was going to share it in our
biggest kind of competitor school wise was Okad.
That's where I went, right? And yeah, and, and we were had
very similar courses, very similar sensibility.
But I remember my one of my professors saying like I went to

(24:24):
one of the art shows and guess what?
All the life drawings look like they were headless and they were
handless. So that became our little like,
oh, look at us logical adjustment.
Yeah. So that was, that was incredibly
significant. So it honestly, it's just
practice. It's really just practice.
And and you spend a lot of hourslooking at your own hand and

(24:45):
trying to just reproduce it because it is really difficult.
Hands are weird, man. And there's a, but there are
lots of tutorials online to break it down geometrically and
then figure it out from there. But they're not easy.
They're not easy. That's the one thing I still
struggle with especially with I'm working on this one project
where it's a lot of illustrationand I I'm always doing what
you're saying or I will take no I'm looking up pictures yeah

(25:09):
online and I'm taking screenshots just to like add cuz
I just I'm like also time right I'm not AI so I can't generate
these illustrations quickly so I'm like what can I do yeah and
using that but. I will say this though, like
having smartphones and being able to photograph anything is
so helpful when when I was in school, like I didn't have that,

(25:31):
I didn't even have a digital camera.
So being able to capture a pose and just using a lot of
photographic reference until youget really accustomed to it is I
think that will help. That's pretty essential.
Yeah, I'm still struggling with it to this day.
Like I just like and like who has the time?
Like in your intake form where you're like, you know, the
little free time that I have, you'd put.

(25:52):
I'm like, yeah, I agree. Like I I barely have free time
these days. Yeah, and I'm trying to be
nowadays, I'm trying to be more conscious of how I utilize my
free time. And so like, what are you doing
to be conscious? What?
Are you doing? No, I'm like, I'm like, it's
more like asking for a friend. Boring.

(26:13):
OK, well what am I doing in my free time in terms of?
No, like what are you doing to like create the strike the
balance? OK, So I, I will give you a
little bit of a back story, but last year I, and I touched on
this slightly when I spoke to you a few months ago, but I had
a really, really bad year. It was a really bad year.
And I don't want to get into toomany details because it's a

(26:34):
bummer, but also it involves other people in my life and I
don't want to, I don't want to divulge that information, but
there was some burnout involved.I, I burned out pretty badly
last May. So it was almost a year ago and
and it was because I was absolutely burning the candle at

(26:54):
both ends. And I think part of it is just
we are products of our environment.
This society, I live in the GTA,it's incredibly expensive.
And I just felt this internal push to constantly be doing
something, constantly making money.
And I turned myself into an absolute workaholic.

(27:16):
So I was working my full time job, 9:00 to 5:00.
I would log off, take the dog for a walk, eat dinner and get
right back to work. And I was working like a
freelance job and I was working on our comic books
simultaneously, which I'm sure we'll touch on later.
We absolutely. Will.
Don't worry, don't worry. So I was doing essentially like

(27:37):
3 jobs at the same time and it just became too much and I got
really, really sick. I was getting chronic migraines
and just, it was too much for me.
My, my, I think my brain actually misfired and I just
like shorted out. So that was a, that was a huge
eye opening experience for me. And I realized I needed to make

(28:01):
like a life change, like a fundamental change to my
schedule. I wasn't sleeping too.
And that because? Your brain doesn't stop.
It doesn't stop. And the problem is, is like when
you work constantly, even thoughyour body's tired and you're
ready to start unwinding and go to sleep, your brain is still
functioning. It's not going to let you.

(28:22):
Right. And and then you don't sleep and
then you rinse and repeat the next day, girl.
And that's not sustainable, especially at my age.
I am 67 years old. I can't keep up this.
Who is your doctor? I need to go say I need their
number. Yeah.
It's it's me and Lindsay Lohan. That is OK.

(28:45):
Sorry. That is correct.
I don't believe that that's actually her.
Like it's it doesn't even look. It's like a new person was
replacing her. She's like a fembot.
What happened? It literally I agreed.
There's a few of them like that where I'm like, that is not the
same person. Christina Aguilera, same thing
like. 100% Gwen Stefani looks. She's 50.

(29:05):
Jlo. They don't look human.
No, they're superhuman. I I hope to attain that one day.
Me too. High level of physical
inhumanity. As I start to like as I'm in
this this format, I'm like really.
You're gorgeous. You're gorgeous, don't worry.
About that, No, anyway. But burnout?
Burnout. Yeah.

(29:27):
Oh God, Honestly, a sense of humor helps.
Yes, 100%. Contextualizes everything and it
keeps you sane. Like we had some dark days last
year and the only thing that kept me sane was just cracking,
cracking wise the whole time. So now I I do my full time job,

(29:49):
I log off, take the dog for a walk, I have dinner and then I
don't do anything. I do, I do personal things.
I might draw, I might paint to unwind because I find that
cathartic. I'm learning Spanish.
That's a good supplement for my brain cuz I I I need some
stimulus. You need to use it and I.
Need to use it and but I'm not doing much in the way of

(30:12):
freelance right now. I'm kind of taking it easy.
Your back burner. And I'm sleeping again.
Honestly, I, I don't know your how like if you have any beliefs
in like higher power or, you know, synchronicities or
whatever. But for me personally, this
conversation is actually coming in at like such an key moment in

(30:34):
my life because I'm feeling exactly what you're describing.
Yeah, not in like the way where I am like I last year was what
you're describing was exactly how I felt.
I just felt unmotivated. I, I was, I wasn't working that
much. I will say it was the opposite
where it was not, I wasn't burnout.
It was more like I just don't have it in me to push, you know,

(30:58):
I and it was, I think because I had just been running on empty
for so long. And even just yesterday I had a
conversation with Tyler, my boyfriend about I'm, I'm doing
the most right now. I'm doing too many things.
I because I started the year being like, I want to like
really expand the business this year.
I want to get like last year wasso slow for me that I kind of

(31:20):
snapped out of it and was like, all right, we're pulling up our
bootstraps. Let's get to work and make, make
do the do the damn thing. You know, you've been thinking
about the podcast. I'm going to make it happen.
I've been, but I'm doing a lot of it on my own.
And so now I'm at a point, it's great, but I'm at a point now
where I, I know that if I'm going to keep this going, which
I want to, I need to bring in another person.
I need additional help. I need to alleviate because I'm

(31:43):
constantly, I have like 18 projects on the go.
I have 13 clients right now. That is insane.
Yeah. And the podcast I'm doing full
time. So it's, you know, it's, it's
all wonderful. And I feel like I'm exactly
where I need to be. But like you're saying, we I'm,
we're human. We need to take some time.
And that is something that I've had programmed into me is to

(32:04):
work. I come from immigrants.
So they're like work is your identity.
And now as a 37 year old, I'm like, OK, well let's try to,
let's try to suss out other parts of our being.
We call back. It's not sustainable, but I
mean, I think you need those moments to bring you back to
reality and make you reassess and make you realize what's
important and what's not important.

(32:26):
And yeah, no, it was just, it was, it was, it was too much.
And it's another funny story. So, well, I think they're funny.
I don't know. But last year when I was.
Going I wouldn't have asked you to do this if I didn't think it
would be good, a good conversation.
I'm not going to reach out to you and be like oh you're boring
ass bitch like. She that's why, yeah, that's why

(32:49):
Gio's drinking a Coke at 11:30 in the morning.
Oh no, it's iced coffee. Oh thank God.
Anytime. I don't drink Coca-Cola.
I don't drink HOB. Cheers.
Cheers, Yeah. Yeah.
So last year when I was getting like those chronic migraines, I
was just looking for any kind ofrelief.
So I went to an acupuncturist, which I, I'm not, I, I do

(33:12):
believe in non traditional methods as well as traditional
methods. I think you'd still need a
doctor, but I, I do think there,there is some validity in some
of these kind of old practices. So I was like, and, and plus I
was willing to give anything a try at that point.
So, so I went to this acupuncturist, they, they were
kind of like leading in their field in terms of migraine

(33:33):
relief. So I went to go see them and,
and immediately I got the sense that this person was a salesman,
not he wasn't there, I'm going to just he, it was a he, he
wasn't there to strictly just help me and relieve me of pain.
He was trying to upsell me the entire time.

(33:53):
So when I walked in through those doors, I just got a really
weird vibe. And thank thank God my boyfriend
was with me because I wouldn't have wanted to be there alone.
Plus I wasn't feeling well. So he he sat there and he gave
me a sales pitch for about an hour and I'm like looking at my
watch, like when is the actual? Talk bitch, it's going to
happen, right? Think like I have insurance but

(34:14):
yo like this is a waste of my time.
So he made very intense eye contact with me, right.
Big sales tactic. Don't break eye contact.
Yeah, I hate that upsell. And before he even started the
treatment, just based on the information I gave him, he's
like, I want to see you twice a week for six months straight
without starting one treatment yet.

(34:37):
And I was like, you haven't doneanything yet.
Why are you giving me a treatment plan when you don't
even know if one treatment's going to do anything or two
treatments going to do anything?This was just his what he
determined was a good idea. And when I did the calculations
in my head, I'm like, he's looking for five to 10 grand
from me right now and my insurance covers 500 bucks.

(35:00):
That's wild. So I'm like just sitting there
nodding OK. And I, I, I wanted the first
treatment cuz now I was just curious.
I wanted this old goblin of a man to stick needles.
And hotter so. So eventually he actually got to
the treatment and I'm thinking he's going to stick needles in
my head because I'm getting migraines and he stuck them in.

(35:22):
My feet have very little flesh and my nail bed which also has
very little flesh. So when they say acupuncture
doesn't hurt, I was like who theis saying that?
OK, so I'm going to say I'm going to jump in because I will
say don't let him ruin your experience of it because I don't

(35:43):
know if you've done any after that, but to me, not yet, not
yet. That was a bad, That's a that's
not the vibe because I've gone to acupuncturist and they've
helped me tremendously where there's no salesy.
And also a lot of times if it's the, the area in which that
they're treating, they don't actually ever treat that area.
Yes, Cuz you know, if you look at the chakras.
And stuff I don't. Know no but like the the the

(36:05):
images that they have see you and I are very different the way
you're like yeah like I I'm I'm kind of open to these like
alternate whereas I'm like the opposite I'm like fuck the
medical system I'm like everything you have to you have
to be your own advocate and go about it a different way you.
Do you do? Especially I have people in my
life who, especially women who I'm sorry, but are not treated

(36:27):
in the same way that we are as men and all the time, 100%.
And so I know women in my life who are like, I have to go out
of my way to find methods that will allow me to live my life
better because I'm not. I go to the doctor and they just
want to give me medication that doesn't actually do anything.
Yeah. And.
You know you do need. You do need a balance of the two

(36:47):
though. Like, I don't think you should
just stop, you know, if you have, if you have cancer, maybe
go see you. Know that's different though.
I'm saying yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, you need
to have a balance. You can't go one or the other
extreme right. But I whatever there was a weird
part to the story or something Itook away from this story was
that he was a crackpot and I found out afterwards dude flies

(37:08):
around in a private jet. So clearly his sales tactics
work on a lot of people. But one thing he said to me
resonated. One thing I took away from that
was when I told him about my schedule, he said to me, he
goes, he's like, you know what ayin Yang is?
And I'm like, yeah, it's the black and white symbol, dot
here, dot there, whatever. And he's like, yeah.

(37:30):
And it's all about balance. And he's like, you have too much
yin in your Yang. And I was like, excuse me?
No, but it's true. And like, it's one of those
statements where you can, you can listen to that and be like,
you're, what the hell does that even mean?
But when you break it down, he was right.
I had too much work in my life and not enough respite, not

(37:54):
enough, you know, coming down from working all day.
And I, that was the one thing I,I took to heart.
And I was like, you know what? That was actually worth my time
and money. Just that one little nugget of
wisdom. He also told me like, oh, well,
your room is too hot, that's whyyou're not sleeping.
Turn your thermostat down exactly 2°.
And I'm like, you don't know what temperature my room's at.

(38:16):
Maybe he does. Maybe he's.
Yeah. You don't know me, bitch.
Gnome anyway, wasn't a fan. Sometimes we go through
experiences where it's a big kerfuffle, a bunch of bullshit,
but that little nugget is all that was meant to sync into your
brain. Yeah.
For you to, like, take somethingto move forward from.
And it sounds like you got something out of it, even
though, let's be real, he soundslike, you know, not the one that

(38:38):
you want. Like, I'm assuming that was it.
You just went once. Oh yeah, yeah, dude, I could
have afforded it anyway. What the hell?
Who can, who can go to two treatments a week?
Really in our like in our normalsociety where you're working
every day and it was like 2 hours twice a week, it's not
going to happen. It's not even that, it's the the
cost. And the monetary.

(39:00):
Yeah, I know you didn't think. Plus he was a creep, so no.
Yeah, you're like, please don't.It's so funny.
So I when I was going to about ayear, almost two years ago now,
I was going to a, an acupuncturist and she's old
school like this old Chinese woman.
She does out of her house like she's like the real deal.
And going in there, I was like, what am I getting into?

(39:23):
She barely spoke to me. She'd ask me like the most
minimal questions, like what's wrong with you?
What's like, what are your symptoms?
And I don't want to get into like all the details of what was
going on. But she's like Kate, lay down,
take this off like clothing wise, like whatever administers
the needles, barely speaks to meand then leaves for 20 minutes
and I'm just sitting there and she's like, don't move.

(39:44):
And I'm sitting there like, Oh my God.
But she helped me so much. This is the interaction.
And for like 50 bucks a pop, it was like the best nice to the
point, like at first, you know, and once I got used to her, her
ways, I was like, OK, like I, I get it.
But she was, there was no, she didn't try to sell me anything.
It was like the opposite of yourexperience.

(40:04):
Dude, I need her number. You're going to drive all the
way to Windsor. I might.
For the pain relief for. 50 bucks, that sounds pretty good.
Yeah. Honestly though, so I want to
talk a little bit about Studio Alpaca.
So you had mentioned a bit aboutthe comics thing and your
history with illustration. So talk to me a little bit about

(40:25):
how that came to be and what birth the idea.
OK. I totally lit up when you said
that. It was before the pandemic.
It was the before times. So that feels like 50 years ago.
I'm thinking it was 2018. When you were 17.

(40:46):
So my friend Benjamin Hunting, I've known him.
He's the writer of the books. I've known him since we were 12,
maybe. And he's, he's just one of these
really prolific, highly intelligent guys who always has
an idea. I've worked on him on projects
with him in the past. Just bizarre things.

(41:08):
But he always used to come to mewhen he had ideas.
So he did a website at one point.
I worked on it with with him. I've illustrated book covers for
him before. I've done various illustrations.
So when he came to me, he goes, Angie, I have an idea for a
comic book series called Code 45.
So that was the first series that we worked on.
And he said, can you illustrate it for me?

(41:31):
And I mean, I, I have done children's book illustrations in
the past. I hadn't really done much
sequential art in terms of comicbooks since I was a kid and I
never really got into doing panel work.
And that's, that's really difficult.
That's a really time consuming. So I said, yeah, no, but I do

(41:52):
happen to live with a comic bookillustrator.
My boyfriend Joe has been a comic book illustrator or comic
book artist since his early 20s.He's been working in the
industry. And at the time, he was kind of
in a lull. It must been around 2019.
So I was like, maybe, maybe approach Joe.
Like, we can talk as a group. And I'm like, I'll do the design

(42:12):
and then he's like, I also need a letter for the book.
And I'm like, how hard can lettering be?
I'll do the lettering and I'm like, I will barely charge you
anything because I just want to do something fun.
Like I need a passion project, which is a no no for like
creatives, But it was just something I wanted to do.
Never undercut yourself people. But this one instance I just.

(42:33):
We all do it, don't worry. Yeah, so, so that's kind of how
we got started. And then Joe was all for the
story. So the the main story was it's
set in Montreal. It's a young woman who drives
subway trains like the metro in your namesake Kajio Metro.
She drives, she drives the metroin Montreal and she starts

(42:57):
hearing legends or myths that there are Dragons living in the
tunnels, in the subway tunnels because there are a lot of like
abandoned subway tunnels in Montreal.
This is actually true. And apparently, I don't know if
I don't know if this aspect's true, but Ben wrote it into the
story because he's really, he was really into the rave culture
of the 90s. He actually used to throw raves

(43:17):
and, and do his own parties and stuff.
So he wrote it in that they would go down into these
abandoned tunnels and throw these massive raves, right?
And then the, the vibrations andthe sounds would kind of
aggravate these creatures livingin the tunnels.
And anyways, this whole like universe that he built around
that storyline. And we were, we were in, we're
like, yeah, I mean, we're, we get to tell a story that's based

(43:40):
in Canada, which is pretty effing sweet.
And, and we get to make it our own.
We get to make our own world. And we decided from the
beginning we were going to be 3 way partners.
Like we were going to split the property 33% across the board.
So that's kind of how we got started with Code 45.
And after the first issue, whichwe completed it, I forgot in how

(44:03):
long, a few months probably. We decided to start shopping it
around to publishers. And it was black and white at
the time. And we had a friend of ours,
Josh, do the, he's a, he's a colorist.
He did the cover artwork, he colored it for Joe.
And then we started, you know, shopping around.
So we went to Image Comics. We went to I think Dark Horse at
the time and Scout Comics and a variety of other smaller

(44:27):
publishers. And our, our main idea when
we're looking for a publisher was to keep our IP.
Because that is that is 100% keywhen you're starting something
like this is to try to keep the intellectual property.
And if you go to like a Marvel or DC, you're handing away your
rights. 100%. Right.

(44:49):
So yes, you'll get like the notoriety you'll get, you know,
their the, the monetary aspect behind the brand, but you hand
away the rights to your property.
So we were very keen on keeping that.
So we shopped around the first issue and we approached a
variety of publishers and we gota few responses.

(45:09):
But one publisher was like, Yep,I'm doing it.
I want to publish your book. And it was Scout Comics and
they're situated in Florida I believe.
And they had only seen the firstissue and we decided we wanted
to do a 5 or 6 issue run. They hadn't even barely even
seen the rest of the story. And they're like, we don't care.
We like where this is going. We have faith in you guys and we

(45:31):
want to publish your the full run of your book.
So we got a publishing deal and this was December of 2019.
We signed the deal for our publisher, but he said, or the
publisher said you need to colorthe rest of the book, which is
it's fine, but it's also an undertaking.

(45:54):
And we hadn't been paid anything.
When you sign a deal with a publisher, you're not Stephen
King. They're not handing you a
massive advance, right? So you're doing this on your own
dime. So it is a massive undertaking.
So Joe still needed to get paid.So Ben, my the writer was paying
Joe out of his own pocket, right?

(46:17):
Because that's his livelihood. He can't work for six months and
not get paid. Yeah, I know.
I was pro bono because I was like, look, I'm a third partner
in this. I'll do the layout.
Book layouts are easy for me. I have a background in
magazines. I can do the Super fast and I'll
throw the lettering in, which actually ended up being really
hard. And there's a whole science
behind. It I couldn't.
Imagine making it all. Fit making it all fit is.

(46:39):
Dude, it's an art form unto itself.
There are all these rules when it comes to comic book
lettering. So which I had to learn along
the way. But yeah, so Ben was paying us
out of his own pocket, and we decided that moment we needed to
do a Kickstarter because there'sno way that you can just keep
doing that. And now he expected the book to
be colored. We needed to pay our friend Josh

(47:00):
to color the book and like 3 or 4, five other books moving
forward. So we said to the publisher, how
do you feel about us doing a Kickstarter?
And they said, yeah, most of ourcreatives do because the comic
book industry, I mean, they're hurting.
All print media is hurting rightnow because they're not giving
you any kind of advance. They expect you to fund the

(47:23):
entire book yourself, hand them the final product, and then they
they publish it. And they profit off.
They slap their logo on it. Yeah.
So, so that's, that got us started doing the Kickstarters
and we, I think we did 3. So we did issue 1, which was
fully funded in 24 hours. I know I remember when you were

(47:46):
going through that process because or what you're, you had
posted about it or we had talkedabout it and I was like, that's
amazing. That is a wild.
But one thing I think people need to know about Kickstarter's
is like, you can't just do a Kickstarter.
You have to do at least 3-4 months of publicity before the

(48:06):
Kickstarter. You have to get people excited,
engaged, create a newsletter, make sure that you have a fan
base before, because nobody knewwho we were, and then do the
Kickstarter. So yeah, we fully funded in 24
hours and then we did issues twoand three as one Kickstarter and
four and five as as the third Kickstarter.
All three were fully funded within weeks and that allowed us

(48:27):
to finish the book, which was then published by Scout.
Five separate issues and then they did a graphic novel at the
end. So that has nothing to do with
Studio Alpaca, but there's a lead up.
There's a lead up. So that experience gave us
enough experience to to know howto handle our second book.

(48:49):
So our second book was Code 45 and we decided to self publish
and create our own comic book publishing company, or we call
it a, a creative collective called Studio Alpaca.
So now we produce books under our own label and we do our own
thing and we do our own Kickstarters, and we're not
under the gun to work within anykind of system except our own.

(49:14):
Honestly, that's the world we live in is just that.
It's doing it for yourself. I feel that I am in the same
world where I'm like, why are wethe the hoops that you have to
jump through and all for like minimal pay off.
Yes, there's exposure and it's almost like you have to pick and
choose which projects we're like, OK, this is I, I can see

(49:35):
the validity in this venture in order to, you know, get more
exposure or to get but like, andI'm not talking like, you know,
getting on not being paid for exposure.
I mean, just, you know, this platform is going to be more
visibility for me. But a lot of the times I'm I'm
in the same boat as you were. I feel like a lot of
self-directed projects are the way to go because you have way

(49:57):
more control and I feel like theoutcome is much more What's the
word I'm thinking of? Fulfilling.
Yes, thank you. Clucky guess no, it's true.
And and I think we just we learned getting our book
published that it was a lot of it was a time investment.

(50:19):
It was a lot of money on our end.
Like you just assume, oh, you'regoing to get published, you're
going to make money. We made $0.00 off of our
publishing deal. So all five issues were
published and we got a graphic novel and every month we would
get a financial statement and they're like, you're at 0 this
month and we're like, when are we going to start making money?
We, we didn't really make any money off of our published

(50:39):
books. So when it came to dead air, we
were like, well, what's the point?
We might as well just kick started ourselves, do our own
thing. And if we still don't make any
money, then that's fine. We'll break even, you know, But
to get that financial statement from a publisher every month
that you're in the hole or you're at 0, it, it, it was so
defeating. Yeah.

(51:01):
And so like with the self-publishing, like how do you
approach that? Like what's the process and how
do you do it? Because I have no idea.
Like I've never self published anything.
So with us, what we did was we just, we just did a Kickstarter.
So we did the same process of getting the book completed.
I, I'm not doing the, I wasn't doing the lettering on, on Dead

(51:22):
Air because it ended up being a big task.
I'm just strictly the graphic designer.
So I put the book together, I did the logo and branding and
all that stuff. Looks great.
And then any internal assets that we might need.
So with Dead Air, we decided to really flesh out the world.
We went into really great detail.
So this one is also set in in Quebec in the Eastern Townships

(51:45):
where I grew up and where Ben grew up.
And it's set at a fictionalized version of the university and
college that we went to in Quebec.
So he was really into being a DJ, like a radio DJ for the
university at the time. So it's kind of set in that
world. We call it like a sci-fi with a
soundtrack. He's like, he even started a

(52:07):
radio show and it's, I think it's still currently running
back home and he does like a a dead air radio show.
I saw it on the website the SoundCloud.
Yeah, yeah. And every week he will do a
different characters because 1 character's really into Brit pop
and another character's into heavy metal, whatever, right?
And he'll do like a show pretending to be that character

(52:27):
every week, or not pretending tobe that character, but like that
character's show every week. So, yeah, so we really tried to
create this like this really intense holistic universe
surrounding dead air and it's it's been really fun.
So a lot of a lot of the assets that I create are like pamphlets
for fake kind of. Parties.

(52:50):
Or yeah, parties, yeah, I do posters for like the radio shows
or but there's like a fake, there's a cult in the book.
So I did pamphlets for the fake cult and it's just kind of fun,
stuff like that. But yeah, I know.
And so getting back to your question from like 10 minutes
ago, my brain. Listen, we're here to talk like

(53:11):
I. Sometimes wonder if I I5 ADHD.
Bro, I feel like that's let's not go there because I feel like
IA friend of mine was describinglike, Oh yeah, the, the, the
diagnosis is all these symptoms and I'm like, God damn, I check
off like 90% of those That's. Like every creative I know,

(53:31):
Yeah. So we, so that's how we
approached the book itself is that we kind of just approached
the same way as Code 45. We got our creatives in line,
everybody worked on it. I think Ben kind of he fronted
fine like the financials upfrontand then we did the Kickstarter.
So the Kickstarter helped to reimburse him and and then also

(53:54):
fulfill the printed books and the various like tears that we
offered. So when I say self-publishing, I
mean like the books out there with our branding on it.
And then when it's completed, then we decide what to do with
it next. If we want to take a completed
book to another publisher, we can do that, right?

(54:16):
Because that gives us an option.It's already done.
Right. Then we're not under the gun to
create something that you know is going to cost us time and
money. It's already done.
And then we can shop it around to producers or Netflix, I don't
know. Yeah, right.
No, think big honestly, I, I am don't even though like I don't

(54:36):
know think I'm like get that even that word, get rid of it.
Get that that out of your head, because to me.
Yeah. But it's true, 'cause I'm like,
who? You have no idea who's watching,
who's going to see you in doing your thing.
I could totally see it, especially because even hearing
you talking about your involvement and creating that

(54:57):
world, that in itself is the whole point of storytelling.
Because you gave me the first copy.
I think it was the first editionof the comic book and the
aspects of the Canadian aspect, the rave culture, that in itself
I was already gravitating towards it because I'm like
this. I can relate to this in my own

(55:17):
world because I used to be that club kid, you know what I mean?
Going out to bars all the time and to think about this like
fantastical world where there's like underground creatures.
And it was very interesting. And so I just hearing how you're
crafting a story and creating a world that people can immerse
themselves in. Yeah, there's there's something
to be said about that. And so I can definitely see that

(55:39):
becoming something big. And I would honestly be so happy
for you if that was to manifest.Dude, you, you can be in my
Netflix show. Oh.
My God, yes, that was one of. The things that we we spoke
about, we're like, so all of ourfriends can be in it, right?
Like, we're going to need a lot of people for those rave scenes.
Oh my God. Also, if you need a voice actor,
I can. I can do that.

(56:00):
How fun would that be? The world needs more creatives,
more interesting ideas. Because I mean, Hollywood in
particular is just recycling stuff.
It's. Brutal.
Yeah, so I so I don't know if you know who who Todd McFarland
is. I'm going to guess not because
it's a comic book guy. OK, So it's fine.

(56:23):
It's fine. At least I'm pretty just
kidding. Oh my God, no, you're not
kidding. Take that out of your
vernacular. So he's he's the creator of
Image Comics and he's a Canadianguy, He's from Alberta and he's

(56:44):
also the creator of Spawn. So he created a lot of big comic
book heroes in the 90s. So in the 90s, if you were a
comic book creator like a Jim Lee, Jim Lee is basically the
head honcho at DC Comics right now and he's a millionaire and
Todd McFarlane is a millionaire.A lot of these guys from the 90s
are multi multi millionaires. And they?

(57:06):
Decided to. What's that?
Licensing. Yeah, and like times were just
different. Right now you can't sell 2
million books of anything probably.
No. But back then they could.
So they were working for Marvel,DC, back and forth, back and
forth. And they decided, I think
they're in their 20s at the time, to break off and start

(57:28):
their own comic book company called Image Comics.
Bunch of young guys. And they took all the best
talents with them. What a pimp move, right?
And they broke off, made Image Comics.
And when they first started selling, they outsold the two
major publishers. I love.
That and they the biggest thing about Image Comics is that

(57:48):
everybody keeps their IP game changer, right?
So I met Todd McFarlane at a Comic Con in Hawaii just
dropping dropping locations no big deal a few years ago and he
was doing a like a just a talk right?
And he said get your ideas out there.

(58:09):
No one's going to like look for you.
You need to like put yourself out there, put your ideas out
there because there is a lack ofreally interesting creative
properties out there. So he's like, just do it.
Just do it. And that was the main emphasis
of his, of his speech. And it's true, you know, like,
no one's going to come to you and be like, what ideas do you

(58:31):
have? No.
After he got off stage, I went over to him and I was like, hey,
I'm a Canadian too. That's how I that's how I
approached him. Hey, I'm a Canuck.
So we struck up a bit of a conversation and super nice guy,
but I was like, Oh my God, he's right.
Like that's how you do it, you know?
Just get your ideas out there. Take a chance, take a shot.
I think that's on, that's how mywhole adult life has been.

(58:55):
I always, I'm trying to work on any, anything that seems
interesting to me. And if I have somebody who wants
to work with me on something, I'm like, yeah, let's do it, you
know, now I have to be particular, but what I take on
because you can't do everything like you said, that you get
burnt out really fast. Yeah.
But I, I definitely think that there's something to be said
about working on things with thethe drive of I want to work with

(59:18):
cool people on cool concepts, becreative and and flex that
muscle. Because that is also something
that I think gets lost in, you know, especially in corporate
world where we are able to work creatively.
But it's not always the most, it's not something that's like
intrinsically from the soul, if that makes sense, You know what

(59:39):
I mean? Yeah.
No, it makes perfect sense because it's it's being dictated
every step of the way and it's not your vision.
You're working within the confines of someone else's
vision. I will say on to some extent,
though, for I speak for myself and this like I find especially
now because I'm a much more confident in what I bring to the
table and I feel like I am definitely directing the ship.

(01:00:04):
You know what I mean in a lot ofways and it's more there's a lot
of Co creation in my world just because I'm also.
Not a conglomerate, I'm a smaller entity and so I'm able
to work more one to one with individuals and smaller groups
of entrepreneurs where I can help bring their vision to life.

(01:00:24):
So it's, it's a bit more Co creation at this point, but
having worked in my previous world, absolutely, you know,
there's, it's very there's not alot of wiggle room when it comes
to the creativity you can bring to the table.
And so that's why like, you know, you take the pause you
need and I'm not telling you howto live your life, but take the
pause for now. And then once you get back into
it, you'll be galvanized again. It'll be something where the

(01:00:46):
energy will be there to bring itback to life and hit the ground
running in the next phase of this project.
I'm going to have that tattooed.That's a big quote.
Are you tatted? No, you know why?
It's I I don't know, my boyfriend and I have had this.
Conversation, but we're we both have such critical creative eyes
that I don't think I could I would get a tattoo and then two

(01:01:09):
days later I'd be like, this looks like shit.
The proportions are off that line blew out.
I I'd be a mess. I would be staring at it
constantly. I need to have this removed.
I don't think I'd be able to. Yeah, I don't have any tattoos
either and it's for the exact same.
Reason like people like, oh, you're a graphic designer.
You don't have tattoos. I'm like, yeah, because I don't
want to brand myself in a way that is permanent because I also

(01:01:32):
change my you know, I just you change things about who you are
and what you like. And I just don't want something
that I'm going to regret in fiveyears because I think about
things that I clothing I wore. I'm like, I can't believe I wore
that. Thank God it's not permanent.
Dude Can you imagine if we had like our at 18?
Are clothes tattooed on us? Like that's your style for life?

(01:01:55):
Me at 18 was not cute. I was going, I was going through
a hippie phase. At 18 I had Bell.
Bottoms and I love it. I could see that.
I literally thinking about coming into this recording and I
could just hear you being like, dude.
Like I could just hear you say, dude, I heard on the radio the

(01:02:18):
other day that there. Are some some words in our
lexicon that are becoming like archaic and out of out of out of
date. And dude was one of them.
And I was like, personal, that'sa.
Personal attack. Oh my God, certain.
Like new words, I. I feel disconnected from because
I'm like this. This is wild.

(01:02:39):
But then because it's so common,it becomes such part of the the
lexicon and pop culture, I actually start using those words
and low key, low key, that's old.
No, no. The the Gen.
Z. 'S are saying low key,
everything's low key. That's like me amazing.
Oh, low key. Oh, OK.
I think it's like I'm like low key.

(01:03:00):
I say that all the time. Yeah, they repurposed what it
actually means. I don't know this.
And once again, This Is Us agingourselves.
But. Yeah, I know.
So I wanna ask you because you had sent me some imagery of your
work and some of the project youworked on.
I have a genuine curiosity around like how did you design

(01:03:21):
the Sonic slusher ring like that?
I saw that in the in the packageand I was like, I have to bring
this up because it's it, it is so cool and random.
It's super random. I know.
So I worked with. For freelance, I worked with a
company that did jewelry design and this was, this was a fears
ago. Yeah, this is when you and I

(01:03:41):
first met probably so 2021-2022,somewhere around there.
And it was just, it was one of those, it was a job that the
company presented me with. They said we have an opportunity
to work with Sonic Restaurants and they're doing a bunch of
promotional items and one of theitems they want to do is a mood
ring. And I used to have a ton of mood

(01:04:03):
rings. I thought they were great.
My grandmother gave me my first mood ring and it was probably
from the 60s. So I was, I was familiar and I
was like, oh, this is a great idea.
So the idea was it was to promote their different, their
new slush colors and it had to look like a Sonic cup.
So that profile, but it needed to be a ring that would fit on

(01:04:25):
your finger. And then the top portion would
be like where the drink like thetop of the cup and whatever
color it would change would. Indicate.
What slushy you should order at the restaurant.
I love that concept. So cute, right?
It's so random, I know. But so if it turned orange,
you'd get. The orange slushy whatever, but

(01:04:47):
yeah, so that that was the download.
It was like to to make yeah ringthe shape of a slushy cup and
then to have the Sonic like logomark on either side.
And I worked for probably a few months getting the shape right.
So it's a lot of 3D modeling anda lot of manipulation of the

(01:05:07):
shape. And some of the some of the
alterations were a little difficult because they're like,
oh, just make it really like a cup is a is a tapered cylinder.
But this needed to have almost like hard edges and then you
could only have certain restrictions as to how you can
reduce it or else the hole in the middle would start impeding

(01:05:29):
the exterior shape. It was this whole thing and, and
I'm self-taught when it comes to3D modeling.
I just kind of fell into it and I love that.
Once again another. What is it called?
Quiver in your bow or? Oh yeah, that's it.
Oh my God lol I'm dead, I'm dead.

(01:05:55):
Why do you smell like Gen. ZI know DED dead.
Yeah. So that's kind of how that came
to be. And they produced it and they
were selling it. And their marketing campaign was
amazing. I think that one image I sent
you, like the the imagery is incredibly bright and vibrant
and youthful and also fun. I couldn't have designed it that

(01:06:18):
well. It's so good, Yeah.
So that's kind of how it came tobe.
It was a really neat project. I still haven't received like a
sample. I love a sample of it.
Opening up the folder, I saw andwas immediately.
I was like, what is this? And the fact that it was Sonic,
first of all, how did they find you?
Like, how did that even come to be?
Well, the the freelance company I was working for they.
Kind of act as that intermediate, like almost like a

(01:06:41):
manager, right? So she approached me just to be
a general designer. And then she's like, oh, I heard
you do 3D modeling. And I was like, yeah, I tinker
and she, I dabble. And that actually might have
been the first project I worked on with her.
Yeah, it was a 3D modeling project.
Amazing woman, amazing company that was founded by women and

(01:07:03):
they, they do jewelry. And she just, I think she was
approached because they do such good work.
And then she approached me and then I became her designer slash
3D modeler for a few years. And it was it was amazing.
I worked on some incredible projects, but that was the first
one right out of the gate. You have so many cool things
that you've. Done.
I love the fact that you're ableto I this sounds so cheesy, but

(01:07:29):
you're like a a chameleon. You know what I mean?
You've worked in so many different industries.
You're an illustrator, you're a typesetter, you're a graphic
designer, product design, 3D modeling.
To me, that is something that I love about the like the creative
world is that we can just kind of go into any and really you
can kind of like there's parallels or like move from side

(01:07:50):
to side. And I, I think that it just
hearing you talk about all the things you've worked on is, is
very impressive. Thanks Geo.
I feel so rejuvenated. Good.
I'm glad honestly. This is my therapy.
Hey, I won't be charging. You twice a week.
Are you kidding? But so we are nearing the end,

(01:08:14):
as much as I would love to talk to you all day, like I really
could, but you know, we can't have a three hour podcast.
But I wanted to ask you, So I'vebeen asking every one of my
guests to think about just theirlife in general.
What would you say is the most on brand thing that you've ever
done? It's a great question.
It's really. It's it's a noodle scratcher for

(01:08:36):
sure. OK, let me ask you.
What was yours? Because maybe that will help.
Inspire me. Honestly, I think it's my whole.
Existence, I think I just go in 100% like truly, like I think I
just go in 100% to whatever I set my mind to.
If I say I'm doing this thing, Imake it happen.
And so I just live my life in a way that I won't, not anymore

(01:09:00):
anyway, like I used to. But I, I will go into things
100% and say I've, I'm doing this thing, I'm doing it and I'm
committing. So I think that's very on brand
for me. Like, like this, this podcast,
I'm like, I'm doing a podcast. I'm I wanna get into it.
I'm just gonna go in balls to the wall.
And that's literally been it. And now, now back to the burnout
comment. I'm like, maybe I went a little
too hard. Yeah, I need to scale it back.

(01:09:21):
I'm like this scale back. Yeah, yeah, a little bit.
But you know. It'll all work out the way it's.
Meant to, yeah, for sure. And I think, I think you're at
the point where you've realized you.
Might need some help which is good like get an assistant, get
someone to do the editing for your video.
That's a loaded statement, and that's a loaded.
Statement We all need help. I think on.

(01:09:42):
Brand for me is always trying tofind.
What gives gives me purpose always find a, always trying to
find something that inspires me.And I feel like that's a
lifelong journey, especially forme because like I, I, I'm so
interested in everything and I want to try everything.

(01:10:03):
And there's pros and cons to that because you might start
something and then never finish it and just have like hundreds
of unfinished projects laying around.
And that's on brand from you too.
As many projects as I've completed.
I have. Boxes full or like whatever of
projects that I haven't completed.
Yeah. So yeah, I think just trying to.

(01:10:24):
Find my purpose. Like I do love what I'm doing,
don't get me wrong. I love being a designer, I love
being an illustrator, I love being a creative.
But then what's the next step? Like where does where am I going
to go? What am I going to do in the
future? And I keep thinking if I'm doing
this, am I missing out on something else?
Like I'm one of those people. When's your birthday?
March 13th. Are you no, Aries?

(01:10:47):
No. Pisces.
Pisces. Pisces Yeah.
And so. Not that that means.
Anything but I watched one of your podcasts where you guys got
really in depth. Believe me.
Astrology. Yeah, that's.
The one thing, honestly, the conversations have been all over
the map, which I love. I like, I'm trying to, I'm
realizing like I had a goal in this is to like talk shop.

(01:11:10):
But at the same time it's I'm like, you know what?
The conversations go where they go.
Yeah, they do. Yeah, for sure what I'm
gathering. From.
What you're saying is that I think if to sum up from 1/3
third party of what you're saying is that you stay your on
brand, your on brand thing is that you stay curious.

(01:11:31):
Yeah, I like that. Let's go ahead.
You know that you're you. Are perpetually curious.
And I think that that's important.
I and I had this conversation with someone else a few weeks
ago where as adults, we tend to lose that, that curiosity that
we have as kids and especially as creatives.
Like you can't really lose that because then it's like, what the
fuck is the point? Like if you're chasing money, if

(01:11:53):
you're chasing accolades, like that's not the point.
Like, what are we doing here? You know, And I, I, to me, I
always love working on somethingnew.
I think diversifying My Portfolio, you know, pun
intended in this case, is something that keeps me going.
And I totally vibe with what you're saying.
I think it's it's key for you tocontinue on as a creative in a
career that's actually going to have longevity because

(01:12:13):
otherwise, what the fuck are we doing?
I love that. That's it.
That's my essence. Stay curious, stay curious.
Try every try, try everything. If you're interested in
something, try it because it might be your next passion.
And I've, I've tried so many just bizarre things creatively.
I tried out for Canadian Idol back when in my early 20s.

(01:12:36):
Stop. That's you.
I can see you. I can see you.
I was. I was too.
Young, I think. When it came out, I was like in
grade. School.
OK, that's fine. Sorry, I just I think.
I think when it came out I was like 12.
You were probably already 6 feettall.
You probably I think. I honestly was.

(01:12:56):
OK, so you tried out for singing.
That's amazing. I love, I love getting to know
all these, like hidden stories. Take the plunge.
Try something new. It's it's nerve wracking, but
like really, it's not. What's the worst that's gonna
happen? They're gonna say no.
So what it literally I am I've I'm.
I've harnessed this like way of thinking in my life or I've

(01:13:18):
perfected in my own way where now I don't get sad about things
that don't go my way. It wasn't meant to be, but you
put in the effort like so I recently applied for ATV show
and I, I, I was like, you know what?
I'm for sure I'm not gonna get it, but I was like, I'm just
gonna do it. I wanna throw my name in the I
think it would be awesome to do the show and you know, whatever,
whatever happens and I, I know that's OK.

(01:13:40):
It wasn't meant to. I'm not going to get butt hurt
on something that didn't even happen.
If it was something that was like I built and then it was
taken away from me or that's a different story.
But yeah. But in this case, I'm like,
whatever. And what's the worst they could
say? It's you're you're not a good
fit. That's fine.
Yeah. And it's their loss at the end
of the day. Honestly, I'd make good.
Fucking TV bitch. I agree.

(01:14:04):
But anyway, if people are listening and they want to get a
hold of you, if they want to reach out to you, connect with
the comic buy, purchase it online.
Like where could they find you? You can find me on Instagram at
the. Under score Angie Hodge, Sup.
And then assessed with you. Studio under score.

(01:14:27):
Alpaca. Under score Comics.
It hasn't been updated in a hot minute, but but that's where we
are for our comic and comic booknews.
But we are in hiatus right now. The book, I mean, it was being
sold at Indigo. It was being sold online.
Right now it's out of print. But our books, I should say

(01:14:48):
books in general, but we are looking into perhaps getting
Code 45 republished through another publishers.
So now that it's done, we have that opportunity.
So I will keep you posted on social media.
If you follow us at the studio alpaca, then then you'll see
when updates come through for for additional books for
purchase. Amazing.
That's so exciting. I'm.

(01:15:10):
Honestly pumped for when you youget the the gas in the tank to
pick it back up again. I think that it'll be something
that will be absolutely galvanizing.
Thanks, Geo. I appreciate it honestly.
I love seeing people do their thing that.
Is why I wanted to talk to you and have you on.
I was like this lady is out there doing something that is

(01:15:31):
not is self-directed. That is at the end of the day is
commendable to me. Especially in a world where it's
not easy, it is not easy. It's very easy to just like
default to, I work for full timeand that's all I do.
And I don't have the space to domy own thing on the side.
And I'm like the opposite where I'm like, that is nothing.
I'd want nothing to do with thatworld anymore.
And so I love that you're out there doing your thing.

(01:15:52):
And you know, I know we don't talk all the time, but I'm like
on the sidelines, like woo, same, same.
Like I think you and I are just like, natural.
Cheerleaders and I feel the sameway.
I was so excited when you launched your podcast and I try
to watch all your little videos and like them and stuff.
And I think you're doing amazingjob and you just have this
natural charisma and I hope you keep doing it and I hope you get
on million subscribers. Come on.

(01:16:15):
Yeah, I know. I literally think of.
The that song that's was going around a couple years ago where
it's like another white boy witha podcast.
And I'm like, yeah, of course, but who needs another voice up
there? But to anyone listening who
wants to connect with me on either design or branding, you
can reach out to me at geographic.com.
Please follow the podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcast, would

(01:16:36):
love a subscription on YouTube. Leave a comment, sign up for my
newsletter. I haven't said that one yet.
That is on my website at geographic.com.
And I want to thank everyone forlistening.
Angela, I want to thank thank you and we'll see you soon.
All right. Thanks, buddy.
Bye.

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