The Golden Era of Nerding Out with Jake Smith

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Whenever I like talk about it and, like, people are like,
because they automatically thinkyou're gay.
Oh, you'd love like, all the hotguys, the dudes.
Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, I was like,
no, I'm like 100% here for the girlies.
And I'm like, whenever I like, try to explain that I'm like,
OK, who did you pick in Mortal Kombat?
And they're like, like Jade or Cortana.
I'm like, exactly who is your favorite Power Ranger, Kimberly?
Exactly. Like I was like, like, I was

(00:21):
like, it's the bad bitches we love so.
My go to was always Jade becauseI love the outfits and anytime
who is I cannot remember I'm blanking.
But Syndell thank you. Yeah, I didn't even.
Know Syndell was my go to alwaysI love hair whip that like my

(00:42):
brothers do like how to do all the crazy controls the only
thing I knew how to do was the hair whip like with her like.
And then it's priming us for when we're wearing wigs in the
future. Literally like.

(01:14):
Music. Welcome to Graphic Content, the
podcast where we talk all thingswho, why, and the what the fuck
moments along the way. Today's guest is part marketing
genius, part pop culture savant,and all heart.
He's the Senior Marketing Director at Q Care Plus, where
he's making HIV prevention accessible, inclusive, and

(01:35):
unapologetically fun. He's the host of the Golden Era
podcast, He's written for Diva Dirt.
He's appeared on Total Bellas with Wrestling's Bella Twins and
somehow still finds time to uplift often overlooked
community. Welcome to Graphic Content, Jake
Smith. Hi, great to be here.
I'm so glad we're doing this. I'm so happy you're here.

(01:56):
Honestly, I've made a list. I say this every episode of
people that I wanted to talk to when I started thinking about
the podcast and I was going through my socials.
I'm like, who do I, who do I have connections to that are
doing things that are so unique and carving out their own path
in life? And I was like, hey, I'm.
I honestly was nervous to ask you what?

(02:18):
That's so weird. Why?
Because, well, we don't really know each other.
We know each other two socials. And it's always that thing of
like, will somebody take the time out of their life to talk
to me? I know it's like so like grade
school, like insecurities, but I'm like this person is doing
such amazing things. I see on your socials, you're so
passionate about what you thank you do.

(02:40):
And to me, that's like the the core of who I want to talk to.
I love that. Well for all though, like never,
and this goes to anyone listening to like I'm always
open to like chit chat about whatever I genuinely love
connecting with people. So yeah so please reach out
whatever you want to talk about unless it's like for gross nudes
or something like that. No, I'm not interested.

(03:01):
So I. Was I was literally going to say
I'm like the amount of sifting through the like authentic.
People is probably annoying. It's yeah, but but some a lot of
good lols so. A lot of stories which we can
say off, off camera. I think it's so interesting when

(03:24):
I because once again, like we're, we live in the social
world where everyone's online, it's a digital and you, you get
perceptions of what people are like.
Absolutely. And to me, seeing all of your
socials, I think this you are very, like I said, passionate
about what you put out there. I love when people nerd out.
That is like. Number one.

(03:44):
I always say I'm like, I'm nevertoo cool to nerd out about
something. Oh yeah.
And I love that you will just you're like unabashedly like
this is what I'm obsessed with. And you post that and you Rep
that every day. A. 100% like to be honest, like
I have a lot of like weird little like niche interests and
I think especially within the gay community and like gay

(04:05):
culture, like there's always kind of like this preconceived
thing like this is how I'm supposed to be.
Like I always think like a circuit party and guys just
like. Oh yeah.
Doing that and I'm like and likeyou just like have to be like
this, that and the other. And I'm like, oh, no, like I am
like gutter trash and I love this and like, like I don't care
like and I was like, and if you don't like it and if you don't

(04:28):
get it, I'm not really concerned.
So. But yeah, no, I am such a big
dork at heart and love what I love.
So yeah, thanks for recognizing that.
That's the shit that I love it. Like how?
What got you into wrestling in the first place?
Oh, yeah. So I'm one of three boys.
I'm the middle child Jordan, just for my brothers.

(04:49):
And they actually like started really like watching it.
And they, I remember like just like there was something with
like Kane at someone's house or something, I don't know, like
way back in the day. But what really got me into it
was the women. And I remember the first episode
that like I was really hooked and I had to watch every week.
And China, who I am obsessed, obsessed with, like literally

(05:12):
like you can't see it on camera.But like I have her like, last
outfit she wrestled and framed on my wall.
Like, stop obsessed, Yeah. How did you get that?
So I interviewed the seamstress who makes their clothes, like,
years ago. Amazing.
And she had it. And she's like, I know you love
her, and I'd love for this to goto someone who really cares
about her. So yeah.

(05:33):
So it's in my house, please don't yell at anyone.
But but yeah, like I had it likeframed and everything.
But anyway, so China won. They had a spot for like the
last person in the Royal Rumble,like mini Royal Rumble.
And China won it. And she was the first woman to
be entered into it. And I thought that was so cool.

(05:54):
And for me growing up, like, andI cuz I had like been watching
like over my brother's shoulder,but like not really like
invested and what was going on because it was like men and
stuff like that. And I'm like, oh God, there's
like a woman in the men's meshes.
That's so cool. And so I was really hooked on
that. And for me, like, you know, I
never really resonated with likea lot of the male performers,

(06:15):
but China for me was like the closest thing like we have to
like gay representation. I feel like like not that she
was gayer to think of that, but like she mixed like that
feminine and masculine that likea lot of gay men have.
And that really spoke to me. And then I just really got
hooked on China. I got really hooked on all of
the women and it's been like an ongoing thing in my life, so for

(06:38):
like, ever. So yeah.
To me growing up, like, wrestling was something that I
saw on TV. It was.
It was never something that was like that caught my eye.
But I will say, yes, as a gay kid, like the men, whatever.
Yeah. But for sure, there's always
something to be said. And, you know, this
conversation's been had a million times over about queer
men and our love of, like, toughbitches like I, And I say that

(07:02):
with utmost respect. Absolutely.
Just to me, I'm always like, what is it like?
What is that thing that we? Connect with whenever I like
talk about it and like people are like, cuz they automatically
think you're gay. Oh, you love like all the hot
guys, the dudes. I'm like, I'm like, I was like,
no, I'm like 100% here for the girl use.
And I'm like whenever I like tryto explain that I'm like, OK,
who did you pick in Mortal Kombat?

(07:22):
And they're like like Jade or Cortana.
I'm like, exactly who is your favorite power Ranger?
Kimberly Exactly. Like I was like, like I was
like, it's the bad bitches we love so.
My go to was always Jade becauseI love the outfits and anytime
who is I cannot remember I'm blanking.
But Syndell thank you. Yeah, I didn't even.

(07:45):
Know Syndell was my go to always.
I love the hair whip though likemy brothers do like how to do
all the crazy controls. The only thing I knew how to do
was the hair whip like with her like.
And then it's priming us for when we're wearing wigs in the
future. Literally like so I.

(08:07):
Love it. Looking at your, let's say,
accolades, the things that you've done in your life, like
you've worn so many hats, like you host a podcast.
You're a wrestling super fan. You've been on Total Bellas,
which we'll get into. I need to talk about the Bella
Twins. And now you're a senior
marketing director. If you had to explain what your
career path has been like in a couple of minutes, like, what

(08:28):
would it, what? How would you do it?
I've kind of been always an all over the place person.
When I was going to college, I was a communications major,
which is like alternative for I don't know what I want to do
with my life so, but I really tried my best to make the most
of it. I went to Cabrini, which is like
a very small school on the Main Line in Philadelphia.

(08:50):
It's literally just closed last year.
Villanova bought it out, which is great because I'm telling
people I went to Villanova now, whatever.
But it was great though, too, because it was big enough where
you got a lot of that really individualized attention.
And I wouldn't train him in the world because I was able to do
kind of a little bit of everything.
Like I did video, I did hosting,newspaper, radio, marketing,

(09:11):
every aspect you could be in. I was so involved, so much so
that like, I was elected the project manager of our senior
capstone chorus where we did a website on domestic violence and
it was so powerful and so uplifting there.
You know, like I thought I wanted to do video.
So my first job out of college, I started the Monday after I

(09:31):
graduated, I was doing video. I was horticulture police, no
crap about plants. Like I've not been able to take
care of any. So I was like, I worked there
for a year and like, but somehowfrom there we've got a career as
a marketing coordinator for a dental implant practice.
But we were doing like big campaigns because the doctor I

(09:52):
worked for was one of the first in the country to do it.
So we were doing like magazine ads, billboards, commercials.
And it was cool though, because I was kind of doing all of it
and it was, it was like a rough job because like I didn't, I
always kind of had to like adjust because my bosses were
very Catholic, like crosses as everyday fashion and like very

(10:12):
like there was literally a big portrait of an operating room
with Jesus. I don't it was like so great.
So, but but it was cool though, because like I did learn a lot
from there. I went to a law firm, a big
personal injury firm in Philadelphia and I was there for

(10:33):
seven years. I was the marketing director
after some time there. And that was an amazing job
because I learned to do so much media buying, really got
involved with media more. But at the same time, I was
still doing like little side projects.
Like I was working for this website Diva Dirt where we
interviewed the women because itwas like a passion project.
I wasn't really passionate aboutanything I was doing for work.

(10:54):
I was working. I had a great career, but like,
you know, that was an honest actually that's really where I
was learning and self teaching myself a lot like website
design, video editing, radio, like podcasting.
So like we were doing a lot of that on the side.
I was also doing some stuff for my husband's organization, which
is a nonprofit that specializes in HIV.
I was learning about HIV and that world, which eventually led

(11:20):
me to where I am now. So I work for Q care plus we are
a telehealth Prep and doxy pet provider, which is so passionate
because like, and what made me very appealing is like I have a
wealth of knowledge and marketing since I did do like
everything in college and throughout my career, kept all
those skills sharpened with likeside projects and you know, my
main career. At the same time, they were

(11:41):
really impressed with that, but also that I knew everything
about all of the HIV protocols and everything from this work I
was doing for the nonprofit of my husband's and wound up here
and got promoted shortly after Ijoined this company and it is
been the best job I've ever had and I love it.
I say this all the time, but especially when we, you know, we

(12:02):
were going through a lot of different jobs, we'd pick up
skills over the over the years and the amount of times I think
about where I'm at now, these skills I'm utilizing in my
day-to-day and what I want to donow.
Like I picked up all of these things over the years for doing
it for other people. And the amount of times I'm like
this, why the fuck am I here? What am I doing this for?
What is this? This sucks is straining the life

(12:24):
out of me. But then I look back and I'm
like, the path was there, I, I was on it, I should have.
Just when you're in it, you can't sometimes see the force.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so blinding sometimes and
you can get so burnt out with ittoo, that.
But when you get to a point though where you wanna be, you

(12:47):
really it does have that clarityand been like, but you all I
think you also see like because sometimes too, when you're
there, you think it is great at the same time too.
And like because there were points where like I was like, Oh
my God, I love my career. Like it's awesome.
Like look back at it now. It's like what the fuck?
Like like I was like, that was not normal like.

(13:09):
No, the I, there's so many timesand I at this point, like I, I
start to cut out content when I talk about this.
But like my, my, I had a job years ago where the shit that
they put us through now I don't think would fly.
Like, I don't think, you know, we're going back like 15 years,
right? Yeah, they would never get away

(13:30):
with us now. But at the same time, I would
not change it for a thing because I'm at a point now
where, you know, you can look, dude, I always say like a Google
Earth view where I'm like, oh, this led to this and that led to
that and and then here we are, right?
Absolutely. Like there were so many little
projects too that I learned and and honestly, it's helped me to

(13:50):
learn to say no in the workplacetoo, because that is something
too, I think we all kind of struggle with in some capacity.
Like my the job at the president, honest, it was really
weird too, because they would ask me to do like a lot of
things outside of the realm of marketing.
Like I don't, I don't think my boss was the wife of the owner
of the practice and I don't think she really understood
that. Like, Hey, I'm here for

(14:10):
marketing. Like I'm like, OK, cool.
Well, I'm really sorry your yourmother died, but I don't know if
making the programs for the funeral is part of what we're.
Doing that but. OK, crazy wild like wild shit.
They would like, ask me to do like, and I'm just like, what?
Like so, but like back on it. I'm like, you know what?

(14:33):
It helped me like learn a lot like saying no to things that
don't make sense and aren't in my job description.
And it's OK too. And, you know, learning to like
how to deal with difficult supervisors or learning how to
treat people in the workplace aswell.
Because like, now that I manage A-Team, I'm like, I know what is

(14:53):
and isn't OK to do, so yeah. Is there any experience that you
had in the past that you can saydirectly feeds into what you do
today? It's so weird because where I
ended up is so awful. I think everyone's always told
me. And what's always been great
about me is even in very professional settings, I've

(15:14):
always just been kind of like a whack job.
Like more or less like and like like you're.
Speaking with my soul. Yeah, like when I worked with
like attorneys and they come in,I'm like, I'm like, wait, what
is this shit? Like just like, like, and just
like I always try to like, thinkit like, hey, it doesn't have to
be like, so high stakes. So I think like what?
Really Like the thing I probablytook most from like a past

(15:37):
experience is really writing commercials and stuff like that
for an attorney. So like when I came in, I mean,
an attorney commercial, Oh suck.They're so boring.
So like I when I was there like a few months, I was like, let's
do something crazy for like our Christmas commercial.
Like I'm like, it's got to be like off the wall.
Let's stand out. Let's do something fun.

(15:57):
So like I wrote this like dumb script about like Rudolph like
shattering his bulb in like an accident or something.
Oh my God. Yes, yeah.
And like my boss is like, we'll do it.
If you like, dress up as Rudolph, I'm like fuck yeah,
I'll do it. So, so like, yeah, so so we did
that. And like, he was like, but what

(16:21):
was great about that though, too.
And that I think was my first really big introduction to being
like, hey, it's OK to like 100% be yourself.
Because like, I was so pretty new there.
And I was like, oh, I don't know.
And I had just come out of like 5 years of like working for this
dentist where like I had to likehide a little bit 100%.
And I was like, all right, well,fuck it.

(16:42):
Like if this is how it's going to be and we're getting stuff
done, I'm just going to move forward like this.
And it's worked out. It's helped me not even like
make things easier in the workplace, but like it's helped
me like with contracts and negotiations.
Because like I think people too,when they see someone who's
being authentically themselves and isn't like putting on the
facade and the bullshit like it's, it can be very refreshing.

(17:03):
And I always try to take that approach with everyone I meet.
Like keep it professional, but keep it fun.
You and I have to hang out. We're like in the same boat.
The way you just pick yourself in like corporate settings where
I never was that like we would just be quiet.
I've always been somebody to be like, why are we?
Why can't we have fun? Like what?
Are we doing Yes. I don't understand right.

(17:25):
And it's funny too, cuz I remember and college too, like
they would have professional development people, people who
had graduated come in. And I remember this one woman
came in and like we had connected on social and she came
back to talk again. And she was talking about like
your presence online. And she's like, she's like, and
you always have to like, you know, make sure you have like,

(17:46):
maintain a good presence and like, keep a professional unless
you're Jake like you're stuff like she's like, she's like,
she's like, you understand, Like, and I was like, oh, OK.
And that's the thing that I struggle with.
I've struggled with in the past where like I for the longest
time, I would never post becauselet's let's be real, like we

(18:07):
live in a social world. This is, Oh yeah, being online
is the thing that we need to do.I would never post me talking
ever. Like I would never put anything
where I'd showed my personality beyond like a photograph.
Mm hmm. And like my art or my, my design
work. And so to me, I was like
stepping into this realm. I'm like, OK, fuck it.

(18:28):
I'm just, I don't, I don't have anything really to hide people
who know me. I'm very much that person that
presents authentically all the time, whether you know, I'm in a
good mood or not. But it's that thing of like, OK,
who do you want to connect with?To me.
I want to connect with people that are in the same headspace
as me. Exactly.
Why the fuck are we pretending? Like to me, I can't get behind

(18:50):
the like. No, I don't.
The like smother I smile in pictures like.
Yeah, like I don't understand and I've never really understood
like the like putting on like a different person or something
like that. Like my the my last job, what
was really my breaking point forme.

(19:11):
And then like it kind of went toshut after that was my boss, who
is like he was this attorney andhe was so we got along, but he
had such a very difficult personality.
Like he could be the biggest Dick to people some days and
just like say like off the wall in appropriate ship.
He like pulled me aside one day and he's like, I saw a picture

(19:34):
of you on Instagram and I'm like, OK, like, And I was like,
I was like, all right, well, what was it?
And like, it was not even like aracy photo or anything like
that. He's like, your shorts were
short and like, it was a pictureof me like media wrestler and
shorts. He's like, you have to
understand, like when you're nothere, you're like representing
the firm. And I was like, I pulled him
aside late, but I was like, I was like, first of all, it's

(19:55):
highly inappropriate. You don't like jurisdict like
what I wear outside of here. And I was like, I was like, and
honestly, it's like fucking offensive to tell me what is
appropriate. And what is inappropriate?
And he's like, I wasn't gonna even say anything.
I was like, you probably shouldn't have.
Yeah, you should have shut up. Yeah.
And then from there it was just like I was checked out.

(20:17):
I was like, you know what, if this is after seven years here,
if this is how their treating people, fuck this.
Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that's the out you
need, right? Like the thing that you're like,
OK, let me just shift a bit. Yeah.
So on that note, you had mentioned Q Care Plus, which was
your transition to from that role to this role, right?

(20:38):
Like I said, you bring a lot of personality, you're you're
inclusive, your whole platform is around that.
And a lot of times when it comesto the medical industry or
anything within that world that can be very like clinical, it
can feel very cold. So like, how do you balance
marketing being within healthcare with authenticity and
what makes your approach different?

(20:59):
With Q Care Plus, we try to likebe the fun side of what you see
and may be approachable and havecontent that makes sense.
So when we came here, we are owned by Aveda Pharmacy, who is
an incredible organization and they're more of an LGBTQ based
pharmacy. Q Care Plus used to be its own
brand, but it was absorbed by them.
So it's kind of difficult to find the balance of like how to

(21:20):
keep our parent company happy, but also push the envelope a
little bit. When I came in like that was
like my big challenge I was really presented with because at
the same time, we're still a healthcare industry.
People have questions. People want to feel protected
and safe. So what we try to do is really
tie in a hint of educational with sexy and fun.

(21:41):
Because one, our main thing is like, you know, like we want to
be somewhere people want to cometo.
And with me, I really try to make us that inclusive Prep
brand as well. Like some of our competitors,
hey, it works for them. Like they're more of like the
sexy guy base thing too. And like we use that too.
But like, I want diversity. I want people of different body
types. I want to show like sexy as

(22:02):
everyone. And for me too, the people who
are already on Prep are those guys at the circuit parties.
They are the guys with, like, the ripped bodies, like, hooking
up at the gym. I want the person in the corner
who's too shy to come over and ask the question themselves.
What are they interested in? Like, we're doing stuff at comic
cons. We're doing stuff at, like,
convention. Yeah.
Like, I was like, I was like, where are the people, like, who

(22:24):
aren't going to come out to these things that, like, still
need this medication? Everyone's having sex.
We have to do it in a way that makes sense for them.
So what we try to do is really just, like, amp it up with,
like, a hint of personality. We've done like total social
revamps since I came on, like found the right people to work
that with those roles. Like honestly, like the entire
team has pretty much gone through a revamp.

(22:45):
Some people like left found other things that make sense for
them. Some people were asked to leave,
but we, we just like found the right people who make sense to
really get us to the next place,find the voice that was missing
within Q care. And I have to say, like I have
an incredible team to work with.Like I work a lot with the Avida
marketing team. My CMO is so easy to work with

(23:06):
and she's so receptive to our ideas too.
And that's like not even me justkissing ass.
Like I generally like her like as a person, like which is so
refreshing to have as a boss. And I just have a team who makes
things easy. We have a great communication.
Like literally like our group text is called cunt care with
AQ. It's so obsessed like when

(23:30):
they're your friends, but also like you can work together and
rely on them. It's just, it's so easy and we
have so much fun with it. Like our job is genuinely so
fun. We had a contractor at my house
like a few months ago and they did not know what I'd do.
But I have like all these pictures of like guys packages
like up on my screens on my double monitor.
He's probably like, is this guy just like looking at porn all

(23:51):
day? Like, but like we have such a
fun job. We get to work with such great
people and it's just really challenging ourselves and
challenging the industry and finding a place where people
feel included and feel accepted and see themselves in the
advertising we do. And so with that messaging,
because that's the thing like inmy world too, we work in similar

(24:13):
industries where where it's all about the messaging.
And so for you, what have you found in since you've been
working there that has been the most impactful with what you're
saying and how you're saying? So some of the things we do, we
test out a ton of different stuff.
One thing that I really wanted to do that has been the most
impactful and most successful isback story.
Last year we did this amazing activation with Grinder where we

(24:35):
had a bus that went to differentcities.
It was great, but it was really Grinder and we were like sponsor
and like kind of had to tiptoe around like their things.
So I was like love that for pride.
We got to a lot of places. It was, but it was it was
chaotic. So I was like this year for
pride. I was like, I want to make just
as big of an impact, but I want to have more of a say in it.
I had this idea of like reachingout to drag Queens and giving

(24:59):
people A1 on one experience withlike big name drag Queens like
Trinity of the Tuck, Alaska, theConcha Estranga, Selena Estidies
presenting. This was hilarious to our board,
by the way, like they're like, I'm like, their name is Alaska
Thunderfuck. So, but so anyway, what we
wanted to do is like, I wanna find ways to create content that

(25:22):
is engaging on social media, butalso, you know, giving people an
experience and leaving them witha lasting impression of who Q
care plus is at these events. So put together this crazy
thing, it was chaotic to plan, but so worth it.
I have an excellent content producer, Brad Hammer, who is
one of the best in the business.He is the guy who used to do way
back in the day when Andrew Christian was starting out.

(25:43):
He used to do all their like, hot videos and stuff like that.
Amazing. Yeah.
He's so great. So Brad and I set up this
amazing campaign where we went to like Wilton Manor, Chicago
Pride and New York Pride. Actually, we're going to do it
bigger, but it's like, let's start off with like 3.
See how this template works. Had the Queens come gave people
like legitimate like one-on-one experiences collected e-mail

(26:03):
data. We use this program called Spot
My Photos, which is horrifying because it does like a facial
recognition thing, but hey, but like.
We live in. Yeah, was able to like grow our
database by like 10,000 new emails.
And what was so cool is like people where we're sharing their
things there and like tagging Q Care in it too and like being

(26:24):
like, thank you Q care plus. And like people like
legitimately had questions too about what we do because they're
waiting in line. And I'm like, we give out free
swag and everything like that. And I always make sure to be
like, yeah, we're an online prepand doxypad provider.
And they're like, oh, you know, like I've been thinking about
switching from another provider or something like that.
And I was like, hey, you know, like, let's talk.
What have been your issues with your provider?

(26:45):
So having those one-on-one things, I go to a lot of the
events. I am a face of the brand as
well. We send out an e-mail after
events. For me personally, having that
connection is great because a lot of our other competitors
here are just sending the hot guys and the Speedos, which is.
Great. But they don't know the product,
they don't know the questions. We do.
We're the people doing the marketing.

(27:06):
And it was so rewarding that messaging from the drag Queens
and the fun twist they put in their PSA's that they do because
we tried to tie each to their personality.
It's connecting to their fan base.
It's growing our social media following.
It's growing our e-mail following.
It's growing our patient base. That's at the end of the day is
the bottom line. It's been so cool to just like

(27:27):
watch something our team took a gamble on really pay off and
grow because we put the work in and we did it correctly.
We had all these custom pieces and we're doing it again next
week at market days. I'm changing it a little bit
because we're going to have Manila Luzon again.
But I'm a big Bravo guy, so we're bringing in.
I'm like, I'm always like, I literally had work like do a

(27:49):
WrestleMania thing too, like, which was huge trust too.
But we're bringing in Kate Chastain from The Traders and
Love. Kate.
So excited. And Whitney Rose from Salt Lake
City. So like, we're gonna do like a
housewife and a Below Deck. I was like, you know what?
And like, I'm just excited. I was like, I feel like Kate is
really gonna draw. So yeah.

(28:10):
Especially after the last coupleyears.
Exactly. I was like, you know what?
She's got the Below Deck fans, she's got the Traders fans.
I'm like, you know what? Everyone loves A bad bitch.
So on that note, OK, so I'm gonna like shift gears a little
bit just because you're you're talking about traitors.
Yeah. OK, So when Nikki did Traitors I
had never heard of her. I was not I.

(28:30):
Was not aware, yeah. But when she was on the show I
was like, I loved her vibe. I was like, she's so grounded.
She's super chill. I love her approach and the her
downfall on the show was criminal.
I was like, what the? I was so pissed.
When Grishell was like I was. Like, what the hell?

(28:54):
Like, this is who she is. Why are we like.
And I get it, Like the paranoia is like through the roof on
those shows. And the way that she repped, she
was like, I'm not going to fightthese MFS.
Yeah. Because I'm like, I'm just, this
is who I am. Like I'm not going to change to
fit your idea of what I should be.
And outside of like a game show,I was like, I love that

(29:14):
approach. I know that you love the twins
and that you have like you post about them and you know them.
And so for me, I'm seeing this and I'm like, I don't know this
woman, but I I connect with her so much because she's just like
reps it. And that's usually not something
that like reality TV. Sure.
Totally. It doesn't like push that
because it's like we want to be extra.
We want over the top. And and I, I saw it and I was

(29:35):
like, I, I don't know this woman, but I love this woman.
I love that she's repping herself.
She is and that's the person Nikki has always been.
She is literally my adult. Besides China, she's my #1 Brie
as well. I love Brie, but Nikki, what I
love about her is the twins werehired by WWE because they were
hot models. Like they, they were like OK

(29:57):
pretty girls at that time period.
This is like 2006. They were looking for just
gorgeous women who like they're the company was not focused on
the athleticism for the women. They were like, we just want hot
girls for calendars or whatever.So they hired them, but they're
like, no, we like really want todo this.
Like can't do it right. We're can do it we want.

(30:17):
To do it. And what I love about Nikki
specifically is she's always kind of had an uphill battle
against her. She was with John Cena for a
year. So a lot of people were like,
oh, the only reason she's here is because she's like with John
Cena. And it's like, no, like she's
putting the work in. She Nikki literally like broke
her neck and was out of action for like over a year, had

(30:38):
surgery and still wanted to comeback and do this.
She's back right now. And like, it's just, it's very
cool. And she's always been so
inspiring because like on the show, she's always been
unapologetically herself. And now it's so funny because at
that time she was hired as a hotgirl.
Now they're like, they want justathletic women and like everyone

(30:58):
has to be tough. Everyone.
You can't be sexy and tough. And she's like, no, I'm still
going to do the sexy thing too. Like, like one thing I've always
loved about her is just she's always been herself.
Like her like little catch phrase thing is like then like
stay fearless, which I love. And it speaks to me in so many

(31:19):
ways because it's just like, youknow, like you can have so much
working against you, but like ifyou stay true to yourself and
you're just like, fuck it, like just go out there and do it.
That's what gets the time. And she's always resonated with
me for that. On that note, like do you have
your own wrestling persona? Like because you're in that
world, like if you did, like whowould, who would this person be?

(31:41):
I. Oh, I don't it's it's funny
because like everyone, I get like told all I mean like I'm
like in my late 30s now, like I'm like I'm I'm not doing this,
but like we're in the same. We're in the.
Same. Yeah, like, but I get all the
time too, because like I I'm also like very big into like
lifting and stuff like that. And like people are always like,
why like don't you wrestle? I'm like my life is really busy

(32:04):
like so, but like also like too,like I was like, I'm also
tragically uncoordinated. So I was like, I was like,
someone will probably die if I try this.
So but I don't it would probablybe something like Bella related.
I I honestly don't know, like how?

(32:25):
Have you never thought of this I?
Don't know, like it would probably be like just like booty
shorts of some kind, like like aboy diva sort of.
I don't know. I feel like I I well, I have
done so we sponsor an event and this is gonna sound weird, but

(32:47):
like Folsom, do you know Folsom as Yeah, OK, so they.
I'm gay. We I know what it.
Is well, I'm not some gay so like that like but my friends
run a wrestling show and it's like not like a sex space show.
They do like a wrestling show where all the performers are gay
unless you're Q care sponsor. Now I was like, I'd love to
sponsor this. So I did like a little segment

(33:07):
where like I wear like a little Q care Speedo and like this guy
like come out and cut like a heel promo on me.
And then like I did like Nikki does like a forearm to his hand.
So like we did that this year. I'm coming back and we're doing
and again and I'm screwing him out of a win.
But like so but I don't know I mean I feel like it just be like

(33:29):
someone like super friendly. I get told I smile a lot and I
laugh really loud so I don't know to be.
I can't believe I haven't thought about this either.
I'm shocked I actually thought about this question this morning
when I. Was getting yeah, that's such a
good one though I'm. Gonna ask him.
The thing is like, I know what I'd wear, but I don't know who
I'd like would be like a. Good way to start.

(33:50):
It's a good place to start. You know what?
And that is so gay culture. Like I'm gonna go to this event.
I just want to wear. I don't know how I'm gonna act
on this. So like.
Somebody to think about the nexttime we talk.
Exactly. Exactly.
I love it, but and it's The thing is to going back to what
you said about I love wrestling,but I I don't know if I could do

(34:11):
it. Yeah, it's like sometimes it's
OK to just be a fan and to admire it On the topic of
reality TV, like I love Survivor.
Yeah, I'm still like a die hard from the early days.
People are like, oh, would you do it?
I'm like never. Yeah.
I would never I, I'm sorry, but if I was out there I would be
off first because I'd be a such a bitch because I couldn't eat.

(34:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely. There are these shows like I
have so many people too. They're like, Oh my God.
So like I, I haven't watched thelast couple years, but people
are like, oh, you should do Big Brother.
And I'm like, I was like, I willbe cancelled in two seconds.
Like, like I was like, I know anything I say will be taken as
offensive. Like out of context.

(34:51):
Yeah, out of context and chaoticand I don't want to see myself
in HG so no thank you. 24/7 I'm sorry, I don't need, I don't
need them filming every minute of my life.
I'm I'm not, I'm not a pretty girl in the morning.
No, I'm saying I do not need people to know how gassy of a
person. Absolutely not like so, no.

(35:17):
I don't want that. I don't think I did apply for
Traders Canada because they still have like regular people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had a call out earlier in
the spring and I was like, you know what?
Like, I'm just gonna do it. I love that show.
Obviously didn't get it to me. I'm like, that's something that
I would be able to do, I think because it's not like they're

(35:38):
not filming 24/7. It's like when you're on set,
you're filming and you're doing the show, and then it's like you
have like a bit of a reprieve. That's the part I was like, OK,
I could do it. And also I just love the the
premise of the game. That's The One Show I'm like, I
actually, I actually applied forhim like I would I wanted to do.
It would be so fun. My one friend just like and I
was so bummed because I couldn'tgo because it was another

(35:59):
weekend I was traveling. But he does like a traders
weekend where he rents like a like a nice house and they like
legitimately play traders and I was like that's so fun.
But my I have another friend too.
I don't know why I have friends who do this shit but like they
do Big Brother. But if you get voted out, you
actually have to leave. I was like, that's hilarious.

(36:24):
The commitment, this is once again going back to what I said
about like the nerding out. Like I, I love that.
I love it so much. It's so fun.
It's OK. It's so good.
One of the things that I like todiscuss with my guests is when
we're on a path, when we're going through life and we are
obsessing out, like, what are wedoing?
Where are we going? We come up with like a lot of

(36:45):
like, what the fuck moments? Like what the fuck am I doing?
What the fuck is going on? And so like for you, looking at
your career like what's gotten you to where you are to now?
What was a major what the fuck moment when everything was
feeling like it either fell apart or like falling into
place? Yeah, for me, my major, like
what the fuck moment was? I mean, so leaving my last job,

(37:05):
it was so weird. So like leading up to it, like
there was like a lot of like shit that was like kind of
weird. Like they were like asking for
all these reports that just kindof seemed like impossible and
they knew we didn't have data on.
So I was like, I think they werelike looking for like a gotcha
thing on something. And I was like, okay.
I was like, I was like, well, this.
And it was like literally like my husband's birthday weekend.

(37:25):
I remember. And I was like, yeah, they're
like ask me to pull all this shit.
And it's really weird. And then they were really weird
about, like, me not coming in like that Monday because, like,
it was I was having, it was likethe anniversary of my mom's.
Well, it was my mom's birthday. But like, my mom's an ideal
twin. My mom passed years ago.
But like, I was having dinner with, like, her sister.
So like, I'm in Staten Island today.

(37:46):
I'm not. I'm not there.
I came in that Tuesday. It was really weird.
We have this weird meeting wherethey wanted to see all my data.
Then they were like, well, numbers don't look good.
I'm like, all right, Well, yeah.Like, what do you want?
Like, I was like, you guys, like, are like, make me change
it constantly. So my boss had like, he asked me
to come into his office and like, he signed me down and he

(38:09):
was like, it was weird because he never said you're fired or
we're letting you go. He was like, I just want you to
think about like your future here.
That's so crazy. It was so weird.
And I was like, what? I was like, am I gonna go?
I literally had to ask. He's like, we're gonna be moving
in a different direction. And I'm like, OK.
I was like, can you just fuckingsay that?

(38:31):
Just say the words. Yeah, yeah.
So I was like, all right, whatever.
So that kind of like sent me into like a weird self identity
kind of like crisis because likethis had been my job for seven
years. I didn't know what to do.
And like at that point like I felt like all I was probably
capable of was like legal marketing and like law
marketing. So I was applying for all these

(38:52):
jobs with like law. It was nice though because like
they did, they gave me like a great severance.
I had like 5 months like where like I didn't have to worry,
which was great. So like I took a month and just
really did like nothing like. You need that sometimes.
Yeah, And I was like, I need a reset.
I was like, when in my adult life have I had like time to
just not do anything or worry about anything?
It's still like it felt weird not doing anything because I'm

(39:15):
such a like a go, go, go person.So I was like applying to all
these random jobs. And I remember there was like
what I applied to, it was like aseven round interview process
and like. That is nuts.
It was I was like, this is absurd and I was interviewing
with my current job. Now they loved me, but I was
also interviewing at this other law firm and they gave me an
offer. I went back to Q care and I was

(39:36):
like, hey, I have an offer on the table.
They're like, we're not ready topresent you something else.
Well, I'm not in a position to turn down an offer.
So I went to this law firm. I was there for like 2 months
and it was the most what the fuck am I doing here?
Yeah, job. So it was very corporate.
It wasn't personal injury law. Like personal injury law is fun

(39:57):
because it's like bottom of the barrel kind of a free for all.
This was like construction law and like legal contract shit.
I did not knew the work they were having me do is so fucking
boring. I was like, oh, I can like do
this graphic. They're like, oh, we have a
graphic design company. I'm like, so why are we here?
Yeah, like like I was like, yeah.
They're like, oh, we just want you to like.
Like managed website, but like Ijust didn't really connect with

(40:18):
anyone there and it was so weirdbecause I'm such a like people
person, but everyone just seemedso stressed and in their own
world and I was like, I don't think this is right for me.
Turns out Q care called me back.They're like, hey, we have a
spot on our team. We were thinking about you.
If you're open to it, we would love to have you on the team.
And it worked out and I literally like was like, all

(40:41):
right, I'm leaving. Like, and it was, but it was, it
was when I felt like my life wasgetting back on track.
I honestly, that summer was really rough.
My husband and I separated briefly.
I was like, I honestly felt likeI didn't know who I was like
another like what the fuck I wasdoing and why?
I was like, I can't have this job be my career.

(41:02):
This is not me. This is I'm not happy.
I hate it, but it worked out forthe best.
And honestly, it was, it was a great experience in the sense
that like, it taught me what to look out for for something 100%
don't I want ever. I think sometimes when we're
going through those transitionalperiods where the your old self
and things that we like default to, it's like, OK, I need to pay

(41:24):
my bills. I need to, you know, I need to
make money and we start doing things that are outside of what
it is that we actually are. It's good that in your case, I
truly believe that everything happens for a reason.
I agree. So you're in this job and you're
like, you know what, I'm just going to take it.
Like this other job isn't ready or whatever.
And it was that, like, small taste of like, what your life

(41:45):
could be moving forward. And you're like, yeah,
absolutely not. And the universe had bigger
plans for you to be, like, plucking you out of that and be
like, yeah, you know, this is what you need.
Absolutely, like in a way, like it was the most like everything
happens for a reason situation, even like my boss has it now.
She's like cuz the time I wasn'tthere that summer Matt Q care,
she's like it was a mess here. So she's like, and I'm really

(42:06):
glad like you got out of that and like weren't a part of that
cuz it was chaotic and it was scary.
I'm like they just didn't know what to do.
So I'm glad I'm here now and learning and growing and seeing
what could have been was it was good because like everything
I've always had like job wise, like yeah, like there were

(42:27):
problems and issues, but like The thing is like I was always
comfortable. I was never comfortable at that
job that I was out for a little.Like literally they're like we
have to wear suits everyday and I'm like what for what?
Like like so but it was just so weird and like I remember my
sorry like I remember my like please tell me I gotta get out

(42:48):
of here moment was I was there during June and pride month.
Yeah, gay. I also don't think anyone else
there was gay, which was weird for me too because I think too
like if I don't speak in my normal voice, I present
straight. So like I was like, I was like,
I think they thought I was straight like and like, so when

(43:11):
my boss, but we did like a pridemonth graphic, like we changed
her logo. One of the partners came down to
my boss's office, slammed the door shot and was screaming at
her. He's like, we don't celebrate or
support Pride month here. And I'm like, all right, well,
bye. Like hard left.
Yeah, well, on my exit interview, I was really like a

(43:33):
friend about like everything with like HR Like I was like,
this girl should not be working her.
And like I was like, also I was like, I think the partner would
really benefit from like some training on like the LGBTQ plus
community. I think that's bullshit and I
think that's ridiculous that like he had the audacity to say
that. What is that saying?

(43:54):
If I'm too much then ask for less or something?
What? Is it?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I do too much because you do too
little. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll bring it back to traders and bravo.
And it's true. It's like I've been on my own
now, like for almost 9 years. And so like I haven't really had
to like it's been me. Like I'm presenting myself.

(44:17):
I'm, I'm attracting my clients because of who I am, right.
And exactly beforehand, though, one of the only, and I said this
before, but the feedback that I got every year at my review was
always the same. It was always like, you know,
you do a good job, you're working hard, blah, blah, blah.
But your attitude, basically they're in their words, like
you're extra. And, and at the time I was much
younger. So I was, I know that I, I could

(44:37):
tone it down, you know, I was, you know, whatever, first
corporate job, blah, blah, blah.But I think back and I'm like,
because I spoke up, because I would say this is bullshit.
Like why are we doing this? Why am I being put through this?
And in my personal life, I've come across that a lot too.
And like where I'm like this is.I can't.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's crazy. It's nuts.

(44:59):
Yeah. How did you deal with that?
Because you know you left, but like what was the like?
What did that teach you about yourself and like how you want
to move forward in your? Life.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I think you know what that
taught me about myself too, though, was like, you know, like
it's speak up to when you're notOK with something and just like
don't sit there when you're like, I'm so vocal at my job
now, which is great, but I also feel like I'm in a place to

(45:19):
where I feel supported and comfortable enough to be vocal.
My company is literally like on HR CS list of like top LGBTQ
plus supportive places to work, which is for me, this is where I
want to be. But like that doesn't happen.
Like, you know, like I am going to look for companies where
they're supportive of the community.
Because The thing is, it's like,it's not something I ever really

(45:40):
looked for in a job, but it's something that I think I need in
a job too, to feel accepted, feel myself too.
Because like, I don't, you know,I didn't, I just didn't like
being literally the only gay person there.
And also to like, not even like being around people who I felt
like I could look at as allies of the community as well.

(46:03):
Especially like right now in like the political climate in
the US. Like, it's just like you need
that support, especially when we're moving in a place where
like things are turning backwards that there are people
looking out for for us and our rights and who we are as people
and not looking at us as like, oh, the random guy.
In today's world, you touch on it, we see that everything

(46:26):
around us is kind of crumbling. Who has the fucking energy to
present something other than whothey are?
You know what I mean? And like some people, I'm like,
don't fucking show who you are. You're an asshole.
You're a big on that side, like which you know, two sides of the
coin. But but for me, I'm like, I have
one life. I want to live it authentically.
I want to do me in the way that feels right to me.

(46:48):
I'm not hurting anybody. I'm not going out of my way to
be an asshole. I'm not taking any other
people's rights away. I'm not shitting on other people
for who they are. Why am I going to even pretend
to, you know, be a certain or act a certain way or be a
certain version of myself, right?
For other people who literally can't even see me, I'm like, I'm
not, I'm not doing anything wrong just because you can't

(47:09):
handle me. You once again I'm too much, but
you know you're not enough. That's exactly it.
Now you're at a point now where I feel like based on what you've
been telling me, you're the worlds in which you live in are
all kind of merging and they sense for where you're at,
right? Where you have your queer life,
you have also like pop culture merging in with it.
And then also you're helping community.

(47:30):
And so when we first touch base a couple months ago, you had you
were in like full swing of pride, but it was pride in June.
So you're talking, you mentionedabout doing a drag tour.
How did everything go? So good it is.
Our job is so crazy because likewe're doing all of the marketing
campaigns and everything like that.
So like I work from home when I'm not on the road, which is

(47:53):
great. We're doing like e-mail
campaigns, social campaigns, like coming up with new
concepts, different ways to present everything.
But at the same time, we have a crazy event schedule that never,
it really seems to slow down, which is great.
So there was I was on the road for like 8 weeks.
It's like strange. So that's.
Why? It is nuts, but you know what?

(48:13):
I'm getting so many miles so butanyway, so it was great though,
too, because what I love about being on the road and what
really helps me do my job is like going to all these
different cities. I'm an East Coast boy.
I know New York, I know Philadelphia going to places

(48:34):
that I don't know that well, like we did like Austin, you
know, Wilton Manor, Chicago, Vegas, LA, like wow.
Every city has its own personality and as to what
appeals to them in terms of marketing.
So we've really been able to like customize the ads we serve
on like dating apps and learn from people.
What I love to do honestly, is just like a night outgoing from

(48:57):
like bar to bar and like just like meeting new people and
like, you know, like tell me what it's like to live here.
Like what's the scene like? Like do you like it?
What do you hate about it? Like, you know, things that help
me do my job better and understand these markets because
that's what it comes down at theend of the day.
I don't like guessing what's gonna work.
I like knowing what's gonna workfor these people.

(49:18):
So but it was so incredible. So we did the drag queen tour in
some cities. Some cities were just like we
did our 10 and just like swag give outs.
But any opportunity we get to really have these one-on-one
conversations is such a game changer and so unique and so
cool and just like diversifying our events as to what we're
doing. Like we did like a beach party

(49:39):
in July. We have market days coming up,
Folsom, a couple of different other random prides here and
there. But like we were doing like an
an aquarium. I'm in Atlanta.
So like it's just like, yeah, it's, it's so cool though too,
to just like meet these different people and like, also
like meet portions of the community that are often
neglected as well. Like I love doing like bear

(50:03):
events. It's not the stereotypical like
norm of like the six pack guy and stuff like that.
But like the bears are so friendly and.
Like so friendly. So friendly and they love like
learning about what we do. We've gotten some great sign ups
at those events. So it's just like, I love going
outside of the box and finding different areas that our main
competitors are going to stay away from because for them, and

(50:25):
I know this first hand from conversation, it's like what
they want is like, hey, we're going to advertise because you
look like me, like you've got this great body.
And I'm like, fuck off with that.
Like I was like, market to people who you care about,
market to the community, market to help people.
For us, it's that at the end of the day.
Do you ever find because of how you present that you get,

(50:48):
especially now with, you know, there's so much infighting
within the queer community? Like, do you ever get people who
like, just project an idea onto you of who you are?
Based on how you look. Cuz like what you're telling me
and who like is so different from the idea of what we think,
you know, muscular big dude is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I get, you know, like I think like once people like really get
to know me too, like cuz like I think like if you look at me

(51:10):
like right away, like people definitely have like this
preconceived thing too. They'll have an idea of who they
think I am. Some people even think like will
think like I'm an asshole because like I do like some
people just like I think like what can my profile just like,
OK, this dude just like travels a lot or likes wrestling or I'm
like that, But I'm like, the reason I'm traveling is like to
do these events to like put myself out there.

(51:32):
And I think you know too, like once people have a conversation
to me too and like come up to our table and like just like,
see, I'm like insane, like you're like, Oh, OK.
And it's it's been great. And I love breaking down those
barriers too, of people as well,because I think a lot of people,
especially at these events too, come in with an exterior on.

(51:54):
And then seeing that crumble away, loosening people up has
been so fun. And finding common ground that
we can like, talk about with, you know, like I try to put on
music, find different ways to like break out to the right,
like compliment their clothes orlike if they're wearing
something that I know something about.
Like it's been very cool in thatsense to really try to
breakthrough what people perceive me as as well.

(52:16):
From what I'm getting from what you're saying, I feel like
you're #1 driver in a lot of what you do is connecting like
simple as that. Like you just want to cut.
Easy. Yeah.
With people in general, that's what we're all kind of looking
for and genuine connection. This isn't like a work related
thing. But like when I got recently a
very cool message, my friends and I went to like an all

(52:38):
women's wrestling event in Atlanta a few weeks ago and it
was so fun. It's like a bunch of gays in the
front row. And it was so funny.
It was so cool to see because like wrestling is like usually
like like in the heteros or in the no offense heteros, love you
but but anyway, so but there wasa mom there with her son and
like it reminded me of a baby me.
He like was like there for his like favorite female wrestler,

(53:00):
Ria Ripley, and he had like a little glitter vest on and stuff
like that. And I'm like, Oh, this kid's so
cute. And like I was like mouthing to
the mom. I'm like so cute, like love
that. And like, the kid was like,
talking, like, over the barricade to me, like, like, the
whole time. And I was like, yeah, I was
like, I was like, dude, are you so excited for, like, Rhian,
like talking to him? And like, the mom found me on
Instagram. And she's like, I just, like,

(53:20):
she's like, I didn't get a chance throughout the show, but
she's like, I just wanted to sayyou were the best part of the
show for my son. Like, he's like, so nice.
Yeah. She's like, he deals with, like,
bullying sometimes. But he felt so seen.
And the genuine connection was so cool.
And for myself, like work, personal people, that is the

(53:41):
thing I like to leave people with, like feeling like there
was a genuine connection and feeling like they felt seen.
I love making people feel included.
For me, it's like I got like a high off of it.
I love just making people happy in any way that I can.
You are speaking to my soul likethis is my whole ethos in life.
To me, the biggest thing is I want to connect, whether it's me

(54:03):
to others or others to others. When I lived in Toronto, my
friends always jokingly called me like I was like the connector
because I would. Always bring.
So many people together, like I had this case, so every year I'd
have this big party at Christmasand I called it Beard Miss.
OK, yeah. And every year for the last four
years that I lived in Toronto, it got bigger and bigger and I
lived in like a 650 square. Foot.

(54:24):
Condo, like I didn't have space,but it just got bigger and
bigger and I would invite everybody that I knew across the
board from work from like gay life from yeah, you know, the
gym people I met, like whatever,like all different aspects of my
life into this one. Mash up a party.
And from there, I would love to hear after the fact like, oh,
you know, my one friend Jewel, he cuts hair and then suddenly

(54:45):
he's getting new clients from them.
Or I heard that like these two friends got together for coffee
because they have similar interests in, you know, pop
culture or in their work or whatever.
And that has been something thatI even though like it's I don't
keep it at the front of who I am.
But now as I'm especially through this platform, yeah, I'm
feeling like it's coming back in.

(55:05):
It's making a resurgence. And like what my role is in the
world. Example, I literally yesterday
got a text. So episode 20 just came out,
which is crazy. I'm already at 20 episodes.
I think you're going to be almost at.
I think you're like, it's almost30, which is nuts.
Amazing. Episode 20 came out Danny and he
told me he's like somebody that he knows.
Listen to the episode and reach out to him because he had

(55:27):
offered on the episode mentorship.
And so now he had lunch with somebody to and reconnected with
them and now they're going to work in that way together.
And I was like, he's like, you're changing lives.
And I was like. I that is the best though, Like
I know, right? Cuz like, it's like when you do
these things too, it's like you're like, sometimes you're
like, oh, is anybody? Even listening, who's listening?

(55:49):
Yeah, but like when you get those messages too.
And the coolest is like when youmeet people in person too, and
they're like, Oh yeah, Oh my God.
Like I'm like, I'm like, what the fuck?
But it's so cool. It's so fun.
It's amazing. And to me, like once again, like
the things that we do as much asyou know, like I said, we, we
work, we have to pay our bills. We it's self interested to a

(56:11):
certain extent, but at the same time, the reason that we're
doing it is because we are, we do things for others.
Like, I know it sounds so cheesy, but at the end of the
day, when you put yourself out in a way and the things that you
do connect people, they affect people, they impact people,
that's when you're like those signs from the universe where
you're like, OK, I think I am onthe right path.

(56:32):
No, you're exactly right. You're exactly right.
So I wanna switch gears a littlebit because we've talked about
wrestling a lot, and I love thatyou have such a, like, a deep
love for wrestling. Like, I'm not a wrestling fan,
but to see somebody who has, like, this passion for
something. Yeah.
To me, I love nerds. Like I, I, I love it.

(56:53):
Like it just because to me, I'm like, I love that people can get
so passionate about something that I may maybe have no idea
about. Yeah.
But to see it, I'm like, it is cool to nerd out on something.
I agree. What is the connection that
you've had with wrestling fandom?
Because it's like it's its own culture, right?
Its own subculture. Absolutely.
Yeah. And like, how have you
translated that? Because, you know, you work in

(57:14):
like, advocacy and marketing, Like, how do those worlds merge?
Totally. I mean, so like in anything I've
ever done, I've always tried to like tie wrestling into it in
some capacity, which is. I love it.
I was, when I was a newspaper editor, I did like a whole page.
I think I'd like WrestleMania. Like I was like, college kids do
not give a shit. But I was like, I do so.

(57:36):
And then like even like my career, like there'd be like
ways I could like, try to find ways to tie it in with the job I
have now. It is so cool because I've
really been able to bring wrestling in and demonstrate
that it works too like that there's a fan base.
So I've always been very connected to the wrestling
fandom. From when I started with Diva

(57:57):
Dirt, we were like the first website that was really just
covering the women, which was socool.
And there is such a niche part of the wrestling fandom to like.
Most of the wrestling fans are like there for the men and like
women often get shit on, which sucks.
What was great though is I was able to connect and meet a lot
of other fans who are super passionate about women's
wrestling. I'm not as involved involved

(58:19):
with, well, I'm not involved with Diva Der anymore at all.
I left there in like 2016. But like, you know, like it's
very cool because like the work I was doing there has influenced
this next generation of people really doing stuff.
My friend DS runs this channel Ring the Bell and I appear on it
sometimes. But he's like told me he's like,
I started it because like he's like, I loved your podcast every
week with Diva Der. He's like he was born in Korea.

(58:41):
He's like, I used to like sneaked burn CDs of like to the
Korean military, like like episodes like so I was like, I
was like, I was contraband like so, but it's so cool.
And I've met so many people fromthat.
And then with like the Bella Twin stuff like gotten to know a

(59:02):
lot of really great people. So it's just always I've kind of
unintentionally become like one of the faces of like gay
wrestling fans and gay wrestlingfan then, which is very cool.
And it's, it's honestly awesome to just like meet other gay
fans. And just like, I love that,
like, we connect on this, but with the work I do now, like one
of the things I really wanted todo is find a meaningful way to

(59:22):
tie it in. And I was like, hey, so
WrestleMania this year, there's never really any events for gay
wrestling fans. And WrestleMania is like a Super
Bowl for wrestling. All the wrestling fans come into
the city it's in. This year was in Vegas.
My DS was like, and I had dinnerwhen I was in Chicago and I was
like, hey, you know, like, I really want to do some sort of
event with you. He's like, you know, a bar
reached out to me in Vegas and asked if we'd want to do an

(59:44):
event. I was like, let's do it, like
let's go all out. So I think what did we call it?
Diva Mania, because the women used to be called Divas.
So we got set up three former WWE Divas to come in.
My friend Rekno, who is like, I don't know the EDM world, but
he's like big in the EDM world, which is funny because like I
know him through wrestling. So I'm like always so blown away

(01:00:06):
when I meet like I love him and yeah, like but so he DJ D it.
But it was so cool because Like You Care Plus sponsored it and
we collected. Emails at it and it was just
such a cool vibe and such an inclusive space.
Like we had like a diva entrancecompetition and like the girls
all had fun and like there was great beats, there was drag

(01:00:27):
performances. It was just so cool to like what
the gay wrestling fan experienceis to feel seen and visible.
And that's the messaging we got after the event is like it felt
so cool to be welcomed and so warm and everyone was so
friendly. No one was a Dick and it was
just great energy. So bringing that into wrestling

(01:00:49):
and being able to like help people and like get people to
sign up for prep was really justthe most rewarding thing and an
event I'm really proud of. And to tie that in has been
awesome. And honestly, like wrestling has
shaped my personality so much, like a lot the women have
influenced me so much as a person that like I'm able to
bring that into the workplace every day.
I like my background is always aconversation start.

(01:01:12):
It's like I have like Nikki Bella's gear.
Oh, OK, so Nikki Bella's like you're hanging on like my wall.
And people are always like, what's that like?
One thing that I find, especially as adults, when we're
working in the our respective industries, we're doing what we
do. Yeah.
The things that connect the mostare almost like inadvertently
these like tributes that we maketo our younger selves.
You know what I mean? Exactly.

(01:01:32):
You're like honoring the little version of you, the little Jake
to say like, look at this is something that you can bring,
something that you love. That's maybe, you know, not so
mainstream at or whatever. You know, yeah.
It's something personal to you and then you can bring it
forward in a way that is a you're impacting people, but
also there's that part of you that's like.
This is this is for little. Little me, you know?
Yeah. Exactly.

(01:01:52):
You know, you said like a lot ofthe women in wrestling, they
helped shape you. Like what are what are aspects
of that that you've pulled that you're like this, this serves
me. With China specifically, you
know, I grew up in very strict, like Italian family, like my
brothers and I are all such different personality.
Yeah, you guys, you guys are allsuch different personalities.

(01:02:14):
And I've always kind of been like the off the wall, like
middle one. But for me, like China really
spoke to me a lot because specifically.
So she they had her win the Intercontinental title, which
was like a men's title and she was the first and only woman to
ever hold that championship. And that moment when she won
that, that really kind of for mewas kind of like a fuck it, I
can do anything thing. And like at the time for like

(01:02:37):
obviously like wrestling script and everything like that.
But like looking at that as like11 or whatever, I was like, I
was like, this is so cool. Like there are no boundaries.
There's no like I can breakthrough anything and do
what I want to do and be my own person.
And I really like taking a lot of that with me throughout my

(01:03:01):
career too. Like I'm like, I got into
fitness because of like China and like she was like really
into like working out and stuff like that too.
And just like the person she waslike really shaped me.
And like a lot of the women, there's like little aspects of
like the Bella's like just beingwho you are, being your
authentic self and like defying barriers.

(01:03:21):
Like really inspired me a lot aswell to be like more than more
than what people perceive you aslike for them.
Like, you know, like they see like this model, but like
there's so much more and like that's what I want to be too, is
like so much more than what people perceive me as.
A lot of that is happening now where I'm hearing from people

(01:03:41):
and I'm experiencing this myself, where the facades that
people put up and a lot of that and like I I'm hearing from a
lot of people now where like theauthenticity piece of like can
really connecting with people inin a real way.
So many people are now like they're realizing like we are
all we're all the same thing. Like why exactly are we making
it difficult? Like, and I love hearing that,
that in, like a wrestling event,not that, like, 'cause I don't

(01:04:05):
know anything about that world. Yeah.
So I have my own preconceived notion.
Yeah. But to hear like the guards are
down, that people are connecting, they're making new
memories with each other in a way that is like real and
authentic to me. I'm like, I love hearing that
because I think people are kind of like, we're like, the world
is literally ending. Like, whatever.
Yeah. Yeah.

(01:04:25):
I know exactly. It's like when you step into
that world of those connections,it's so like we the women's
wrestling event that was a few weeks ago, it was so cool
because it was like all gays andgirls who went to it and the
connections and the positivity and the energy.
And it was so cool because like we even got like I know some of
the girls personally, like they were sending messages like after

(01:04:46):
the event be like you guys like made the event for me.
Like it was so cool. The energy you brought in, the
positivity and like it was a really special.
Weekend then those are the things that you can carry
forward in your heart. You have to remind yourself
whenever those you're feeling down you're like you know like
that I still I can still access that right exactly.
So we've talked so much about what you're doing, what you've

(01:05:07):
done, what's in the horizon, like what's coming, Sure that
you're you're manifesting, let'ssay, yeah.
I mean, so definitely like for next year and like the end of
this year, I want to like ramp up different events.
So like, you know, like I mentioned that we're going to be
doing some Comic Con kind of stuff.
So I really want to break into that aspect and like honestly
kind of break into some areas that like necessarily aren't

(01:05:29):
100% gay, but like gay friendly and like places where we you
might not see us. I want to push boundaries on
social media a little bit more work on some new collaborations.
We just shot this past week withKylie Sony glove.
She was wonderful. And we're going to have like a
really trans inclusive message. And that is portion of the

(01:05:51):
community that is never touched by any of our competitors.
And I'm like, why? So I'm very excited to put out
some really positive messaging for the trans community.
So that's one of my big things for this year.
And then honestly, I would really love to do some sort of
big, big, big collaboration. I don't know what that means or

(01:06:11):
what that looks like. And obviously, so like we're
also moving into a space where we're starting to advertise prep
for women more. So I really want to do something
with a diva. So yeah, once again, you want to
merge those things your past. Exactly.
You are an example of how to fucking do life.
I'm not just saying this genuinely.

(01:06:33):
You approach everything like just hearing you talk.
I'm like, you're inspiring me tolike, not thank you feel like
for real, like you're inspiring me not to feel so bashful about
what I love and putting that outthere cuz that that is the thing
that's gonna like bring it to the next level.
You know what I mean? I think people like hold back on
like sharing, like, Oh my God, people are gonna think it's so
weird. And I'm like, whatever.

(01:06:57):
Like, if I think it's weird, youknow what I think The thing is
too? Like if you present something
you love, like, OK, what you think it's weird, too bad.
But like, this is me and this iswhat I love.
And I think people more often than not, like, really respect
that and love hearing that you are passionate about something.
I think like as humans, like, wejust want to show that passion.

(01:07:19):
So we are nearing the end which I cannot believe it's it's gone
by so fast. I ask every one of my guests at
the end of each episode because I'm in branding and I I like to
like, you know, I dissect your life, like talk about what you
do. If it came down to a simple
statement of what is the most onbrand thing about you, what
would you say? I I feel like I have to like tie
in like a little Bella in there too, just because like it's, it

(01:07:42):
is so much of my personal. It's so weird because like I've,
I have so many brands. Like I feel like like some
people don't think maybe as prepor like wrestling or like Bella
twins or whatever. So like, but like I think like
live fearlessly like would be like my main brand just like
loudly, authentically and not like be afraid to show people

(01:08:04):
the person you are. We all have something so special
and so unique about us and there's no reason to hide that.
If anything, and for myself, it's helped elevate my career
and take me to new levels, make great connections that have
benefited our brand, benefited our industry and benefited

(01:08:24):
myself not only like professionally, but like
personally, like I've become great friends with some of the
people that I've like met along the way by just like opening up
and presenting myself good and like even like strangers, just
like being your weird self to like to the girl at Starbucks,
like it makes their day sometimes.
Like this is random and this is kind of off topic, but like at

(01:08:45):
the rest, like a few weeks ago, like one of the girls who's like
playing this like bitch character or whatever, like
she's kind of in character, likein a meet greet.
I was like, Oh my God, you look so cunt and she's like baroque
character. She's like just like crying,
laughing. She's like that paid my day.
Thank you. So just like have fun, just like
live fearlessly. Be yourself.

(01:09:05):
Honestly, that's like the best way to end this.
Like I thank you so much for taking the time out of your day.
I know you're a busy person and I appreciate anyone who comes to
chat with me about themselves. Really, I appreciate it so.
Much Well, thank you for doing this podcast.
I think it's important to share people's stories and make those
connections and inspire others. So I'm so happy to hear the work

(01:09:26):
you're doing is inspiring peoplelike that.
So keep doing it. I think you're doing a great
job. Thank you, I appreciate it.
And so anyone listening, where can they find you online?
Sure you guys can follow me at Jake isn't ISNT Jacob Jake isn't
Jacob on Instagram legally My name is Jake so like so but Jake

(01:09:47):
isn't Jacob on Instagram. I also have a Twitter I don't
use it that often though but I'mon there as well.
I used to use it a lot more, butand also plug my business as
well. Get Key Care Plus on Instagram,
learn some more about perhaps these some of the awesome,
amazing content we've been putting out.
I'm really proud of the work we're putting into it.
So you guys can find me there. And to anybody looking to

(01:10:09):
connect with me over design, youcan reach out to
methroughgeographic.com like subscribe, follow, comment the
podcast on all platforms. I'm on TikTok, Instagram, all of
the vids, would love to subscribe on YouTube.
And once again, Jake, I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much and we'll talksoon.
So. Good bye, guys.

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