Why Are We Not Dreaming Bigger with Jordan Robinson

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I had booked a trip to World Pride in Madrid, kind of to
celebrate some of the weight loss and just cuz I was kind of
feeling new and, you know, new me.
And I was feeling good about myself.
And I landed in Madrid and I looked around and everybody
looked perfect and beautiful andgorgeous.
And it was the summer and it wasWorld Pride.
And, you know, as an LGBT community, especially gay men,

(00:22):
we face a very high degree of body pressure for Pride.
My friend Daniel UI actually didhis thesis on the Pride body and
the notion of what we do in anticipation of large queer
events and just kind of what people do physically to prepare
physically and mentally for those.
And so when I landed in Madrid, I was staying at an Airbnb at

(00:43):
the time, and I was like, oh, I wish I could just go to the gym
once or twice because I've got the circuit party at six, then
I've got another one at midnight.
I've got this thing over here that I'm going to be partying
all the time. And I just wanted to just find a
way to boost my confidence and just boost how I was feeling
about myself in these spaces. Welcome to Graphic Content, the

(01:24):
podcast where we talk all thingswho, why, and the what the fuck
moments along the way. Today's guest is the visionary
founder and CEO of Fitness, the world's first short term gym
membership marketplace. Passionate about redefining
access to fitness, he champions equity in entrepreneurship,
Designing tech that puts users first.
He's making it easier for travellers and locals to find

(01:45):
flexible, commitment free workouts anywhere, anytime.
Join me as we dive into his journey from his time at Apple
and Warner Brothers to the pivotal moment that sparked the
creation of this game changing app.
Welcome to graphic content. Jordan Robinson.
Yeah. That was a great intro.
Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm I'm glad to be here today.
Thank you for being here. I know it's been, there's been a

(02:07):
bit of back and forth of the last few months to get you in,
but finally I nabbed you and you're here and I'm very excited
to have you be part of this project.
Yeah, I'm here so you can fire away and yeah, I'm ready to go.
So yeah, thank you so much for having me and not giving up on
me all these weeks. Well, listen, I was saying
before we jumped into the recording, I'm like, I just like
genuinely love. I say this every episode.

(02:28):
I love talking to people who arelike doing the damn thing who
have said like, you know, fuck the, the standard path on how to
work and create a career for ourselves.
And I saw when you launch fitness, I was like, I first of
all, had no idea that that was even I didn't even know that you
were like in the entrepreneurialspirit.
And so to see it, I was like, well, you made the list of my

(02:49):
pre prerecorded like, who do I want to reach out to?
And so finally now at the end ofalmost end of Season 1, I'm glad
that we are able to do this. Yeah, definitely.
How have you been? Like, what have you been up to?
I know we met in Toronto so manyyears ago, but now you're not
there anymore. Correct.
Yeah. Well, so I'm originally from
Detroit, MI and so I had been inToronto for about 10 years and

(03:11):
that's where I started my first company, which is a small
chronic pain clinic up in Vaughn.
If, if your listeners know whereToronto, it's kind of in the
suburbs, but the clinic wasn't really growing.
And I knew that my ambitions were just way bigger than a
community pain clinic. And so I knew that I was going
to leave at some point. I just didn't know when or how.

(03:32):
And then I just went full, full steam ahead.
You know, no Plan B let's, you know, burn the bridges and do
this thing almost 2 summers ago officially.
And I've been on the, I've been on the entrepreneurial path ever
since. So it's been a wild ride to say
the least, but I also can't imagine doing anything else
other than what I'm doing right now.
Like this is definitely the thing for me.

(03:53):
I love it and that's the thing II always feel like that jump to
go from something that's like there's like security to, you
know, the unknown is always a look.
I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I love to see it.
And so going from the clinic to the app, like what what what was
the like clincher for you that you're like, I gotta jump this

(04:13):
like, is there like a what the fuck moment that made you think
of like, OK, we need to do this.Yes, there were two.
Well, the first thing is you've seen me over my fitness journey
this whole time. Same girl.
And so you would have met me, I would have been almost 100 lbs
heavier than I am right now. And losing the weight entirely

(04:37):
inspired this entrepreneurial journey.
You know, when I was in Toronto,it was pretty easy for me to
walk to the gym, make my meals, do my normal thing, you know,
just be active. But I've also been a world
traveller this whole time. Just last year, I was in 16
different countries, 65 different cities, mostly in
Europe. So I was in Hong Kong and Paris

(04:59):
and Brussels and 12 different cities in Germany and London and
you know, you know, all over. And all of it came to a head
when I had just lost all the weight.
This was 2017. I had booked a trip to World
Pride in Madrid, kind of to celebrate some of the weight
loss and just because I was kindof feeling new and, you know,

(05:20):
new me. And I was feeling good about
myself. And I landed in Madrid and I
looked around and everybody looked perfect and beautiful and
gorgeous. And it was the summer and it was
World Pride. And, you know, as an LGBT
community, especially gay men, we face a very high degree of
body pressure for Pride. My friend Daniel UI actually did

(05:41):
his thesis on the Pride bar, thenotion of what we do in
anticipation of large queer events and just kind of what
people do physically to prepare physically and mentally for
those reasons. And so when I landed in Madrid,
I was staying at an Airbnb at the time, and I was like, oh, I
wish I could just go to the gym once or twice because I've got
the circuit party at six, then I've got another one at

(06:02):
midnight. I've got this thing over here
that I'm going to be partying all the time.
And I just wanted to just find away to boost my confidence and
just boost how I was feeling about myself in these spaces.
But it was is almost impossible.You couldn't do it because I
didn't speak Spanish. And the fitness industry really
isn't designed for short term memberships.
You know, as you might imagine, the industry can be kind of

(06:23):
predatory where it will be very easy for you to sign up for a
month and almost impossible to get out.
And I was thinking, well, I'm not here for a month, you know,
why can't I just book a gym membership?
Like I can book a hotel room or an Airbnb?
Like why is this so difficult? That is what we're doing today.
And so that was really the first, what the fuck moment is,
I feel so insecure about myself.What the fuck am I going to do?

(06:45):
And where am I going to go work out?
And then the second was when I was working at the medical
clinic, the clinic wasn't growing year over year.
The clinic is still open. It's still, you know, if you've
got some issues, you know, chronic pain issues, it's still
available for you. But the clinic wasn't growing
year over year. You know, we were growing by 1%.
Sometimes we were losing money year over year.

(07:07):
And I had another what the fuck moment with my boss at the time.
And we had never explored opening a second location.
And we had basically capped out on our space in the building.
It wasn't like there was more room.
There were so many parking spots, you know, so many staff
that you could have in the building at one time.
And I asked my leadership team, you know, why don't we do some

(07:30):
research on what it would take to open a second location?
Not that we need to sign a leaseto open a second location.
Not that we have to commit ourselves to anything other than
understanding what it would taketo open a second location.
And I got the most negative, hostile.
Your head is in the clouds. You're dreaming too big.
You should be grateful for what you have because you should not

(07:52):
expect to get anything else. It was like a complete disaster
meeting. And I was like, what is this,
you know, why are we so limited and why are we not thinking
bigger, dreaming bigger? And it was in that instant that
I knew that I had to do something different.
And so between those two experiences, I'm like, well, you
know, I know that I can do better on my own.
I know that I can build this fitness thing and kind of

(08:14):
change, you know, physical or access to to health services in
this different way through fitness.
It combines all of my interests.It involves travel and I love to
travel. So perfect confluence of all of
my passions and interests and mycareer experience up to this
point. But Geo, it is the hardest thing
I have ever tried to do. It is so difficult.

(08:37):
It is so we'll get into it too, but it is not been easy to say
the least. But like I said, I can't imagine
doing anything else at this point.
This is it. I'm in the same boat as you.
So I have in the new year, it'llbe 9 years that I've been doing
geographic, which is insane to me.
Like the the fact that I've beenit's my longest relationship,

(08:58):
let's say that. Yeah, but but at the same time,
like I once again, like I don't,I couldn't see myself doing
anything else. Like I I've dedicated so much,
you know, blood, sweat and tears, quote UN quote to this
thing. And and maybe it'll evolve over
time or it'll adapt. Like even doing the podcast was
like a new branch of the brand that I want to put out there.

(09:20):
So it's like as you go, you kindof see what's working, what
isn't. But going back to what you said
about that, that faded meeting at the end of the day, like to
me, I always look at things like, what is the, what is the
opportunity here? What is the, what is the how do
we expand? How do we grow For you, that was
like, I'm so almost like, I'm glad that that happened to you

(09:41):
because it was like, I don't want to be limited.
Like what are we doing here? Yeah, yeah, that was my whole
thing. Is that why are we not dreaming
bigger? Why are you, why are you put,
why are you stopping yourself before you even try of achieving
something else? You know, this is the only life
that we know about. And so because of that, why
would we not try to chase after everything?

(10:01):
Why not go for it? And if you tried and it didn't
work, at least you tried. But I knew that I couldn't live
with the regret of not trying and thinking back and going,
God, why didn't I just try? Why didn't I just give it a
shot? Even if it explodes, you know,
catastrophic, which I don't think it will, you know, at
least I can say I went for it. I gave it my all in.
Whatever happens from there happens.
But at least I tried so that I can live with.

(10:24):
I'll say this, the amount of people, so I not to, I'm not
trying to blow smoke up your ass, but I will say this, the
amount of people that I've talked about your app describing
what you do, every single one ofthem is like, that's a thing I
could do that. I'm like, yes, I'm like, go get
it now. The excitement that I hear
because especially I have a friend who she works in fitness.

(10:45):
She she did like an episode at the beginning of the the series
and she owns a local gym. And I was like, this would be
something that you could easily be a part of because it would be
something that especially peoplepassing through, there's so
much, there's a lot of people that come here through Windsor,
Detroit for, for work. I mean, you know, like, hello,
you're from literally across theriver.
Yeah, that's The thing is that it doesn't feel risky what we're

(11:08):
building. You know, if I told people, you
know, we could be building an NFT marketplace for cat
pictures, or we could build garbage bags.
Garbage bags are a very lucrative business.
They're endlessly renewable. You know, people always have a
need for it. But I'm not going to feel good
about my career building garbagebags or NFTS.
You know, I was trying to figureout how do I improve global

(11:29):
health? How do I improve access to
services and also how do I builda business model around
reshaping the fitness industry? And so yeah, so I'm glad she's
the target demographic. Hopefully your you and your
listeners are also going to be in the target demographic
because we're launching soon. We had many stops and starts
along the way, but now we're on track to release in October.

(11:50):
So that's the next milestone. That's so exciting.
And so you talked a little bit about before we jumped into the
recording about the journey, theentrepreneurial path, let's say.
And so how has that been from the time you were like, hey,
fuck it, I'm going on my own, I'm gonna do my own thing to now
a couple years later. I'm assuming you said it was a
couple years. I had that, fuck it, I'm leaving

(12:11):
the clinic moment 2 summers ago.Last summer I started working on
fitness completely full time, soI would say.
And then the idea came to mind in 2017.
So altogether I've been working on it for eight years, kind of,
it's been in my mind for eight years.
I've been working on it full time for two.
And yeah, there's a lot of stopsand starts on the way.

(12:34):
You know, at the beginning with any company, for the most part,
it's just yourself and you have to do 100% of everything.
And if you're good at doing 100%of everything, that's great.
But for me, I'm, I'm not technical, so I can't code.
My entire life would be different if I could code
because I would have built this thing years ago myself.
And So what I needed to do was just to think about what are the

(12:56):
strengths that I have and what are the strengths that I need
somebody else to be much better at than I am.
And that came down to design andit came down to coding.
And so along the way, probably the biggest thing that I learned
is that you need to talk to everybody, absolutely every
opportunity that you have, everypodcast, you know, any
opportunity that you have to speak with someone and get your

(13:19):
idea out and validate it is going to be really, really
valuable. You know, I think one thing that
I've noticed with other start upfounders, especially people that
are just getting started, is they want it.
They have the instinct. And I had it to to hold on to
the idea. Never tell anybody about it.
Make sure that it's secret because you don't want somebody
else to steal your idea. The reality is, you need to tell

(13:41):
as many people as possible aboutwhat it is that you're building
in order to find the people thatwill help you build it.
A. 100%. And so that was just one of the
things that at first, I was really scared to even tell
anybody about it. I think that was my first hurdle
was just having the confidence to say, hey, there's this crazy
idea that I'm working on. I'm trying, I'm going for it.
I might fail spectacularly at it, but this is what I'm trying

(14:04):
to build. And so that for sure is the
first bit of advice to anybody that's thinking about starting
this road is you got to tell people and you got to get out
there. And that's what you've been
doing too. You're literally doing it with
your podcast, Geo. Are you getting out?
I know and the thing that like on a, on a selfish note, like I
definitely was like, like I said, I, I love the idea of
talking to people. I just really am, you know, I
sometimes I can wake up in the morning before recording and I'm

(14:26):
like, Oh man, I'm like, I'm not,I'm not in it.
And then the second I get into it, I'm like, I'm energized
because I get to hear people andtheir stories and like how, you
know, I don't feel so alone in the silo of like sitting in my
office, like trying to build or keep this thing that I've built
going right. But on a personal note, like, I
just want to say I'm so happy for you, genuinely, having known

(14:47):
you. Like, we're not the best of
friends, like, let's be real. But having known you for as long
as I have, it's been at least 10years.
Yeah. To see you at the precipice of
putting out something that you've been working so hard on.
And I hear the passion in your voice.
I, you know, I've been creeping the socials.
I've been following you for a while now, just seeing the
progression of it. I'm just so excited for what the

(15:07):
next phase of your life is goingto be like, genuinely.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much.
No matter what I tried and no matter what, I went for it.
But like I said, what we're describing and what we're
building isn't something from outer space or the future.
You know, we've already had other Rd. maps.
There are similar companies thatare doing the same kind of thing
as us. We're just executing better in a

(15:28):
lot of different ways. And that's really our big focus.
So, yeah. So thank you so much.
Yeah, I really appreciate it. You know, that's been the best
thing is just finding out the people that are supportive along
the way because it's, it's, it'sa mental health roller coaster
in every way. And there's many days that I
wake up and I'm like, is this even a good idea?
Why did I try this? Do I have the right team?

(15:50):
Is my team just going to completely disappear?
Like what's going to happen? So you do have to kind of figure
out who your support system are is and also just make sure that
you're doing a lot of self-care on this journey because the
doubts, it's very, it's easier to give into the doubts than to
persevere past them. And but that's the name of the
game at this stage of any company is is perseverance.

(16:12):
What are you doing to tether yourself to, you know, keeping
yourself in that like mindset oflike, I'm, I'm good, like we're
riding the train. I want to say delusional
confidence is something that youkind of have to do.
You know, of course, we, you andI both know mini drag Queens and
you do have to just say, no, I really am doing this.
This is really actually going towork.

(16:34):
This is really my thing and I'm just going to go for it.
And so there is a little bit of like delusion with evidence, I
think is kind of the the name ofthe game.
And for me, my biggest job isn'tto code and it's not to draw.
You know, we've got designers, we've got engineers.
My job is to lead and inspire the team to give people

(16:55):
confidence to check in with people on their physical, mental
health. Because it's not just the
company that we're building, it's also these are, there's
nine of us. And so these are people that I
have to get to know on a personal level.
I need to know about your interest, your family, what your
dog does, you know, where you went to school, you know, all
these things are really important in building a cohesive
culture. And the culture is what makes

(17:17):
people work hard. It's what has people work
nights, weekends, you know, 24 hours.
You know, some of our coders, they work overnight and then
hand off to the next person that's taking over for the next
12 hours. So it is kind of this constantly
building evolutionary system. And of course, everything takes
longer than you would ever hope.That's just normal.

(17:39):
But my job is to lead and inspire more than anything, the
team, in addition to fundraising, strategic vision,
talking about strategic partnerships, doing podcast
interviews, you know, my job is to make sure that the ship is
OK. But I think that's something I
got a lot of from my my medical clinic was just that leadership
experience in a healthcare setting.

(18:00):
And even though it's tech, you know, I'm fully approaching it
from a health perspective. That's the perfect segue because
my next question was going back a little bit to, you know, you
talked about working for the clinic and then also Apple and
Warner Brothers. Like how did those experiences
shape your professional pursuitsLike to to the point now where
now that you're leading fitness,like how did that, how did that

(18:21):
kind of translate? Yeah, it's wild because people.
So I went to the University of Michigan for film.
So it is a long story how I ended up becoming a published
chronic pain author and then started doing this whole tech
thing. Like none of it is related to
film. And yeah, before I started
working, my first, my first really professional gig was as a

(18:43):
a marketing intern at Warner Brothers Music.
So this was, if you set your mind back to 2008, 2009, Ke$ha
was unknown. Paris Hilton had just released
her album at the time, Stars AreBlind on Warner Music.
I was working for Disturbed and Metallica and all these like
scary heavy metal dudes that everybody looks, thinks are big

(19:06):
and intimidating. They're the chillest.
They're the ones that like, theyhave no problems.
It's some of the younger pop artists, which I because maybe
I'm going to meet them someday. They it was it was some of
those, those were the difficult ones.
The heavy metal dudes, They werelike the easiest they're.
Chill. Yeah, chill.
They, they're family men. They got kids.

(19:26):
They're not trying to do, you know, too much of anything.
Yeah. But that was my first experience
of just kind of jumping and justlearning that I would be able to
survive in any environment. So that internship was really
critical. It was a very unpaid internship
in LA. So I was, you know, had barely
enough money for gas to get to get to the studio, you know, let

(19:48):
alone do anything else, you know, social in LA.
But that summer taught me that Icould really live anywhere and
that I could make it work, you know, one way or another.
So it gave me my first boost of confidence of who I was as a
person. And then Apple was the right job
for me at the right time becauseit taught me to learn how to
move really fast and how to not like you must.

(20:11):
Do you have an iPhone to you? Are you at Apple for OK?
So if you break your phone, we have in the Apple store between
2:00 to 5:00 minutes to diagnose, write our notes, come
up with a solution and get you back out the door all within 2
to 5 minutes is a good session if you can take up to 10
minutes. But a good session is between

(20:31):
2:00 to 5:00. And so that taught me to instead
of like kind of dealing with a lot of fluff and like everything
else, it's how do I get to as anefficient solution as possible.
And I think that that fully translated into my work in in
the medical field and also the speed that I've taught my team
to to work at. There's a kind of a constant

(20:55):
pressure of the clock being above us.
And so I think those experiencesjust taught me how to move fast.
And I think they're really big skills once you realize that you
can actually move a lot faster than Lily might think.
And so having shifted now where you are not part of, you're part
of the team, but now you're leading A-Team because it is a
different beast, right? Where you're like, OK, let me

(21:15):
just show up to work. Let me get, I know what I need
to do. And obviously every job that we
take on as we go through life, it will help narrate the
following phase, you know what Imean?
Or be part of that. And so now that you're leading a
team, you talked a little bit about your approach to
leadership. But when it comes to like,
creating that culture, like, howdo you approach that in a way
that is authentic to you, but also is like, you know, let's

(21:37):
meet, we have a job to do. I think the most important thing
is at least when I hire new people, because we've got nine
people on the team, we've got 2 interns, we've got 6 engineers
total. You know, we've got a highly
technical, capable team, but I don't actually hire for talent,
which might sound odd or, you know, kind of unusual.

(21:58):
Not to me. Yeah, What I do is I hire for
emotional intelligence. And do I think that this person
would fit in with the rest of the team?
Because in large part, the team that I have is a direct
reflection of me and who I am. And so if these people get along
with me, then ideally they can get along with everybody else.
That's been my my motivating, like North Star, because I don't

(22:21):
know, like, for instance, I don't know if you're a talented
designer. I don't know how technical you
are. I won't be able to evaluate
that. That's going to come out over
time. I am going to know how do I feel
when I talk to you? How does it, how do you
communicate, you know, written or anywhere else?
Do you show up to meetings? Are you are you present and are
you proactive? Like those are the things that I

(22:42):
can evaluate immediately. And then your talent will come
out over time. And so that's really probably
been one of the biggest things when when building a team is I
think that you have to be internally stable, you know, and
so you know, you love yourself, you know, OK, you have to be
internally stable before you're able to lead a team of others.

(23:02):
And especially if that team is going to be a reflection of
yourself, then you extra, you know, especially have to be
aware of, you know, any of your challenges or personality quirks
or things that you know, you might need to work on first
before you start to endeavour tolead someone else.
I think that's been the biggest thing.
I saw what that was like when leadership that I was a part of

(23:24):
didn't have that. And I noticed that some of the
some of the less good traits of some of the leadership team was
absolutely rubbing off on other people on the team.
And I just knew that if there was, if and when there was a
time that I had a team of my own, that I, I didn't want to
have those same issues or be, have my people be exposed to

(23:45):
some of those really toxic, you know, situations that I
unfortunately was a part of. But it got me to where I am now.
So I don't regret them. When this comes out, I got to
share this to everybody. Be like this is how you do it,
OK. Like.
Which I'm not even being funny like illegitimately because we
endless we've all been in experiences where it's been less
than positive working in a team.It's like you go through those

(24:07):
experiences and you see, like, OK, this is how I don't want to
do things, right? To me hearing you talk about
that, I'm like even just saying emotional intelligence, just the
fact that that came out of your mouth, I'm like win check
because I don't have the energy or the space to not have that in
my life. Whether it's like personal
relationships, professional relationships, like what are we
doing if we're not able to connect in a way that is beyond

(24:29):
just getting the technical side of the work done?
Yeah. Completely.
And I think that's the thing that when you're starting the
company, you have to also realize that it's your company
like you can you can do whateveryou want.
The best way to become a CEO, bythe way, is to create a company
and name yourself CEO. That's what I did.
That's how I got the title. OK.
And because of that, that means that you can also step the

(24:51):
course of the team that you have.
And so if it turns out that somebody isn't swimming at your
speed, for instance, it doesn't mean that you have to swim
slower. It might mean that you need to
find the other people that can swim alongside of you, and that
there's nothing wrong if that person can't do the things that
you need them to do. However, because it is your
team, it does mean that you can choose who those people are.

(25:13):
And that means that you do kind of sometimes have to make
certain decisions. You know, there's a couple of
decisions that I wish that I hadmade faster, of course.
And hindsight is always going tobe 2020.
But in over the course of my journey, I realized I've also
been fortunate to meet some exceptional mentors along the
way. And I also want to plug a start
out by the way, if you're if you're an LGBT business or

(25:35):
anything else, start out as an incredible resource.
So maybe we can put it in the show notes.
It's been tremendously helpful for me in finding mentorship,
but that's what my mentors were saying is that if you'd have
somebody on the team who isn't swimming as fast as you are, you
have to find somebody who can swim as fast as you, and that's
OK. I think those are the things
with personnel. But yeah, you can't.

(25:55):
There's no way that you'll be able to adequately evaluate
talent and how their talent willimpact your company like 2 years
down the road. But you know how they're going
to be talking to you for two years.
Those are the things that you can pick up right away.
So hopefully that wasn't too long winded of an answer.
I would rather you talk than. Not that is the purpose.
Of this whole thing. All the years of me watching Top
Model or like everything else and I'm like, no, I'm ready for

(26:18):
this. I can talk about anything so.
I love it. And the next time you're in
Detroit, you have to let me know.
I will. Please let me know.
I would love to see you like it's been too long.
I know it's been too long. I literally live like at the end
of my street I can see Detroit from the river so I'm literally
like 10 minutes away. Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I've got to come back. I also, I have to go to Toronto

(26:39):
at some point because I still have my place in Toronto, sub
letters there and I've actually been traveling for the past,
jeez, almost a year and a half. I haven't been at home.
I've been on this kind of wild world tour, so that's where I
spent all of last year in Europe, and I haven't actually
been in my own bed in almost a year and a half at this point.
Shoot. Facing this fitness thing.

(27:00):
So yes, I'm coming back to Detroit.
And yeah, first I want to see you.
Please let me know. So you mentioned a little bit
about the what was the organization?
Start out. Start out.
Yeah. And so I would recommend them to
anybody start out is a it's based in the US, but you can
join I think anywhere from NorthAmerica, so including Canada.

(27:23):
And they're an organization thatis entirely designed to support
LGBT founders of whatever type of business that you have.
It could be, you know, marketplace like ours.
It could be AI, it could be Consumer Packaged Goods, it
could be design, it could be anything.
And they have events throughout the year that are free.

(27:43):
And it's just been the biggest gift to me on my entrepreneurial
journey so far. You know, I have a mentor who's
a dominatrix for real, and she'samazing.
Hey, Beatrice, I love you. She's amazing.
I've had other mentors that got me to where I am now.
One of the mentors that I met helped me get into our first

(28:05):
venture backed accelerator that we participated in earlier in
the year. If not for start out, I never
would have met him. I've had other mentors that
actually recommended our first intern to us.
He knew about what we were building and he was like, hey,
you know, I've got my 17 year old, you know, nephew, he knows
how to code, you know, do you, do you think that you might have

(28:25):
space for him as an intern with your team this summer?
And I said, yes, of course, you know, obviously we will take any
help that we can get. And he turned out to be a
superstar. He's he's an incredibly
technical, brilliant engineer, 17.
He's going back to high school in a couple of weeks.
I see. So all these things are just
always helpful to like I mentioned before, you have to

(28:46):
talk to everybody and I just couldn't recommend start out
highly enough for for anybody that's LGBT and and looking to
start a business or has businessquestions or just anything.
They're they're an absolutely incredible resource.
Once again, you're like perfectly segueing into my next
question. And so it's like, it's like, you

(29:07):
know what I'm about to ask you talking about, you know, like a
queer organization that's helping a queer owned business.
Looking at the trajectory of your career, like how has your
identity shaped the entrepreneurial journey?
Because everyone's is so different.
And so like for you when it comes to the vision for fitness,
like how has that kind of moldedyour path?
It's huge. You know, I, I started building

(29:28):
the company as I mentioned in 2017, I started going to World
Pride and that was when I attended some of the biggest
circuit parties ever. You know, one of them was in an,
a converted aircraft hangar. That was something like, I don't
know, 30,000 square feet. I don't know what that is in
square meters. You will have to put that at the
bottom for Canadian translation.I know the I know feet, OK.

(29:48):
There you. Go having grown up right next to
the States, I, I'm, I'm more American that way, OK?
Well, it's, yeah, 2030 thousand feet.
And so fitness is built for circuit Queens that love to
party and want to work out and look hot at the parties.
Because I knew that demographic so intensely.
I knew what that body pressure was like because I had

(30:08):
experienced it personally. I knew that me and my community
and everybody, and I also fully live in a bubble.
So that's also a big part of it.But I knew when I was going to
these places and talking to other people and just seeing the
way that other men behaved that they will do anything to go and
workout and look hot before an event that is guaranteed period,

(30:31):
period boots. And so I knew that if I didn't
know anything else, I knew my own community and I knew the
exact ideal customer type for this.
And then kind of grew from there.
I don't think, I think that, youknow, if I didn't have that
experience of losing the weight and also I should also take a
step back. I was very ignored when I was

(30:52):
heavier than I am to now till now.
You know, I might look a certainway now, you know, and I can
even include my before pictures before for the show notes.
But I always felt completely ignored and invisible before I
lost the weight, which is a totally different story for, you
know, the community and kind of faults of the community and what
should happen. But I realized that when I lost

(31:14):
the weight, people received me. Different.
People talked to me different. I had certain things
differently, like things just changed.
And also my confidence changed. So it was also some internal
work, not just the external. But I think that if I hadn't had
that experience, I would have never identified the opportunity
to make access easier for a widevariety of people, you know,

(31:36):
because certainly circuit Queens, you know, like myself,
I'm also a party boy, you know, would want to use the app.
But there's also completely a use case for somebody who just
started a GLP one. They're just starting to take
Ozempic or one of these other medications.
They're finally in charge of their fitness journey for the
first time, and maybe they don'twant to be locked into some sort
of predatory contract where they're spending a ton of money

(31:57):
and they're not able to maximizethe benefits.
Maybe for that person, it's I'm going to go buy 2 days for the
month, I'm going to go twice andthen I'm going to see how I
feel. Maybe I'm going to go to a week
and then I'm going to see how I feel.
I've got a friend who's coming from out of town and maybe I
want them to come. So maybe we're both going to buy
one day. We're going to go together, see
how we feel, and then keep it moving.

(32:18):
There's just a lot of different reasons why somebody might wanna
have that kind of flexible access beyond partying with
shirtless gays. And so that was what was really
the genesis for me, was really just understanding my own
identity and my own community based on what I had seen and
experienced. And then from there,
extrapolating and trying to think what the bigger, bigger

(32:40):
use case was in in in this context.
It's not really applicable for everything.
But yeah, I don't think that if I didn't have my queer identity,
I don't think I would have seen this opportunity at all.
As you were building it out, were you having conversations
with people to ask like them? Like what do you think would
make this better? Always, you know, I think the
first thing is whenever I would have a conversation with

(33:02):
especially other founders or just anybody that I was just
saying like, hey, this is my idea.
I've always wondered, is there something that I'm not seeing?
Is there something that somebodyelse is going to say?
This is the one reason that you've never heard of or thought
about that is going to tank the business from the beginning.
And that moment never came. Everybody's like, Oh no, yeah,
that sounds cool. Or yeah, that that is feasible

(33:25):
based on these other businesses that exist.
So one of the things like I mentioned was I was connected
with some mentoring through start out.
And so we were part of a group where they had about eight of us
together. We would meet on Zoom throughout
the fall and we would just talk to the mentors and we would just
talk to other people that were available and just say, hey, you
know, is this possible? What do you think?

(33:46):
And doing that kind of customer work is important no matter
what. I think if in my ideal schedule,
I would talk to at least, you know, 5 customers, 5 gyms,
something like that per day. So I'm hopefully having 50
something conversations a week with people just to understand
what they're seeing, what their experiences and figure out ways
that we can improve. Also, you'll be surprised with

(34:09):
how generous people are with their time on LinkedIn.
You know, there's been that I'vereached out to who are CEO's,
head of marketing, various venture capital investors,
angels, whatever. And you can say, hey, I've got
this idea. Do you have like 15 minutes of
time? And 90% of the time it's going
to be no, you're never going to get a response.
But the 10% of people that respond usually are quite

(34:31):
enthusiastic, usually quite helpful.
And I think just not being afraid to go out and ask for
feedback, I think that's probably one of the most
important things. We could do more of that work.
Also, we haven't done a lot of feedback studies just yet.
But I think always being not being afraid to say, well, this
person is probably too busy or this person would never be

(34:51):
interested in me or you don't want to shoot yourself in the
foot before you give it a chance.
And so I think that is somethingthat I learned quite quickly is
that people are very generous with their time if you ask.
Once you get the FaceTime. I can relate to this so much.
Where just going for it and not being afraid is like the first
step, but then once you get someFaceTime and then they can

(35:13):
connect with you in a way that is very authentic.
I like I said, I know you, you always present the same.
You're always steady. There's that authenticity piece
to it where you're like, of course I want to chat with you
now, now that I've gotten to know you, absolutely, I want to
keep this connection. Like I've reached out to people
where they're on LinkedIn, whereI'm just like, hey, what's up?
I book calls with them and then suddenly they're like a friend.
And then now I have, my network is expanding and you know, if it

(35:35):
doesn't equate to anything for another couple years work wise,
that's fine. But at least it's like you're
expanding the network and, and so going through this and you're
getting all this data, you're collecting all this information
from all these gyms, gym owners,even like you know, like you
said, VCs, etcetera. What has been some of the
challenges that you've come up against now that you're in that

(35:55):
mode of like, OK, let's build this thing?
Well, people are complicated, right?
So I would say that the biggest challenge hasn't been a
technological challenge. It hasn't been a, you know, one
of our team members has never been like, I'm going to go over
to Pakistan and like, you know, kick your ass or whatever.

(36:17):
It has never been interpersonal things.
It has really been this, this journey fully feels like
shepherding cats and getting like 100 of them to go in the
same direction. At the time, both internally and
externally. One of the biggest challenges
that I had is like I talked about was building a team.

(36:38):
And one thing that I think that I wish that I had done sooner
was maybe had a better harness of my own power and my own
ability to control what we do. As I mentioned before, you know,
you do need to have people that can swim as fast as you are on
your team, fundamentally. And so if they're not swimming,

(36:59):
you do have to find other peoplethat can swim as fast as you.
And I'm a very loyal person. You know, I stick with my
friends. If I've had a friend for years,
you know, I'm more or less goingto have you for a while.
And with this one person on the team, you know, it was so clear
that he wasn't able to swim as fast as we could.
It became more and more apparentthat just what he was able to

(37:20):
do. It's not like he was doing bad
work. It just wasn't doing the work
that he was holding everybody else back.
Got it. And I took too long to make a
decision. I kind of let things go.
I didn't really. I just said it's fine, you know,
whatever. And I think that's one of the
things that I wish that I could have done differently and would

(37:40):
have speed this entire process along faster was just only
having people on the team that you know are going to be able to
deliver. And if you as I honestly, as
soon as you get that feeling, that feeling like maybe this
person isn't a fit, maybe this isn't the right thing to do, you
should not run away from that feeling.
That feeling usually ends up being confirmed over and over

(38:02):
and over and over again. And so I think that and also
like in my own personal dating life, honestly, like red flags
are there for a reason. And so you should not ignore
those red flags. If anything, and especially if
you're seeing those red flags over and over and over again,
maybe you're seeing something that you need to pay attention
to. So I think that's probably one
of my biggest challenges was that I was scared to acknowledge

(38:24):
that there was a red flag and take action on things that were
red flag issues. That's also one of the things
that just comes with inexperience.
You know, I had started a business before, but this is the
first time that I was leading and also would have would have
had to make those decisions. So I think that's one thing that
I wish that I would have done, and maybe that's a thing for any
other future founders is if you do get that feeling, if that's

(38:46):
in your stomach, that something is really not right here, you
have the power to change it. And you shouldn't feel afraid.
You're scared to change it, evenif it's incredibly difficult to
do so. It's ultimately for the best.
And your job as a founder, as you are and me, is to do what's
in the best interest of the company, not in the best
interest of somebody's feelings,not in the best interest of

(39:06):
loyalty, not of something is that you have a duty to the
company to make sure that you'redoing what is right for the
company and for the people involved.
And so hopefully, hopefully that's a good allegory or if
that makes some, some sense there.
It makes tons of sense. And so like for you having that
experience now what, how do I word this?
Like what has shifted in you where you're like, you can catch

(39:27):
that sooner, where you're like, Oh, I I that, that feeling, you
acknowledge it faster than you did And, and you know, let's say
five years ago. Yeah, well, I'll give you, I'll
give you how do I describe it without breaking any.
NDA. 'S Well, I'll, I'll say this.

(39:47):
There was a person on the team who had been on the team for a
very long time and we had started this thing together.
You know, we were really excitedabout what we were building.
And it just came to a point where this person was just
increasingly unavailable. And it was one of the things
that because I didn't have the experience, I didn't think,

(40:10):
well, if you're unavailable for,you know.
Three weeks or whatever that OK,that's a red flag and you know,
you shouldn't be here and all that.
You know, I was trying to be compassionate and just trying to
be like, you know, it's OK. You know, if things don't take
fun, you know, it's whatever. But what I wish that I had done
was just said, no, actually, I want to move this fast.
I'm only going to find the people that can move as fast as

(40:33):
I am. I wish that I could wait for you
and that would be the empatheticthing to do.
However, because I want to move fast, I only want to have people
on the team that can move at my pace.
And I think for me, I was thinking too much about making
everything like nice and like easy.
And I think that's one of the times that I felt like I needed
to have more, more control and also just understand my power as

(40:58):
as the CEO in this case, and also the majority stakeholder
that I really have to set the tone.
And so when that person ended updeparting, they departed anyway.
I was thinking back and I was like, you could have departed so
much earlier than this. I could have replaced you so
much earlier if we had done that.
But I just didn't have the power.
I didn't feel like I had the power to make those changes or I

(41:20):
felt like I was scared. I was paralysed, choice
paralysis, basically. So in hindsight, that's just
kind of an example of thinking that I wish that I had leaned
into my own intuition and said, no, actually we're moving this
fast because this is my, you know, this is my thing.
So we've got to move at my speed.
So I hope, I think that's a goodway of describing what happened
in that situation. And I think that's applicable to

(41:42):
anything. It's applicable to data, it's
applicable to really any other facet in life is that you, you
always have the control to change whatever it is that
you're doing. Even if it's not easy, you know
you can change it. And I found too, the more that
I, I like to jokingly call it like an internal, it's like your
GPS system, like your intuition is your built in GPS.

(42:02):
The more that you listen to it, the more that you acknowledge
it, that it's there, the more that you make it part of your,
you know, not like every day, but your day-to-day, let's say
on a regular basis, the more youstart to get into a flow and
things start to like progress a lot quicker because you're,
there's a reason that it's there.
And a lot of times we are so hell bent on ignoring that thing
that is driving us And it's like, what are we doing?

(42:24):
You're like literally fighting the current.
Yeah, literally. In your intake form, you had
mentioned that you're really passionate about designing tech
that puts users first. What does a user first
experience look like for fitness?
Because I've worked on apps, I've worked on websites, so
that's very much like a part of the creative process.
But for you, how do you ensure that that philosophy that is

(42:47):
behind fitness is central to everything that you do?
I I think it's coming from a design background.
You know, you're coming from a design background.
Of course you can do all sorts of illustrations and stuff that
I wish that I could do. So my background is more
photography and film than prolification, but I think that
the first part of it is coming from a design first perspective.

(43:08):
And I just read a quote recentlyfrom a couple of designers that
design is desirability. The reason why you want to use a
product or the reason why you pick this thing off of the shelf
versus this thing is because of the box on some psychological
level. And the same way with our app is
that we live in an era of AI as you know.

(43:30):
You know, it's not crazy to hearand AI is amazing for a lot of
use cases. It is not necessarily amazing at
design and design language and design systems.
As of today, that is changed. I do think that that is going to
have an impact on designers directly and that's for sure.
It's an ethical consideration that will need to be reckoned
with multiple times over the coming decades.

(43:53):
However, as it stands today, I knew that we needed to have a
designer on the team full time because I wanted to make sure
that we were building design systems that communicated to a
user first that we were serious about what we're doing.
And you can tell by the amount of craft and Polish that we put
into the app. You know, in tech we always talk

(44:15):
about the minimal viable productand our MVP is way more
technically advanced and way more designed than most MVPS are
at this stage. And that was on purpose because
we built this from a design perspective and also from a
consumer perspective first. We weren't thinking about how do
we build the app that makes it easier for gyms to lock users

(44:37):
into a contract that is unsustainable for them.
We kind of flipped the script and said what would users want
from the fitness industry? And then where do we find the
gyms that will provide this typeof service to those customers?
Also thinking about we're building for the world, and so
of course, we're starting in theUS, Canada and Mexico will be
next. But in our design language,

(44:59):
there's a couple of things that we learned along the way quite
quickly that AI wouldn't have been able to pick up, but human
designers would. For instance, I spent about 3
months in Germany last year. German is a very long language.
They've got specific words for every type of thing.
So this table is different than a writing table, is different

(45:20):
than an Essen table, an eating table.
There's all sorts of different variations of word.
And so from a design background,you cannot have a vertical app
with kind of small boxes. You need linearity.
So then that way you can have space for that word if it ends
up being super, super long or ifit's shorter, that's fine.
But if you're working in kind ofa top down narrow view, you're

(45:41):
we're just going to have text that wraps around that isn't
really scalable to other languages.
That's something that we've learned of the way.
There's all sorts of cultural considerations that we have to
make as a fitness app because ofcourse we're designing for the
US. But if a gym in Tokyo, for
instance, says that they want tobe on the platform, they're
going to be on the platform, we're going to accept them.

(46:03):
But then there's also things like in Tokyo, if you have any
visible tattoos, like I've got, you know, one here, I've got a
couple of, you know, right here,you cannot work out on the gym
floor if you have any visible tattoos in Japan.
Really. Yep.
It's a cultural restriction. And those are the kind of things
that you learn on the ground when you talk to a lot of

(46:23):
people. And then it kind of shifts the
way that you think about designing and also designing the
app. So you're thinking instead of,
OK, what do instead of thinking like how do we translate the app
into Japanese, it's more so how do we tell our customers about
any cultural considerations thatthey may need to know about
before they visit. So that's kind of the shift that

(46:46):
we're really focused on is what would be the consumer
expectations and then parlaying that to the gyms instead of the
gyms describing what they need and then passing that on to
users. So that's just another example
of how this thing has gone. That's I never knew that, like I
would never. And that's the thing, like I've
never been to Japan. I have no.
Idea and so. That's so interesting and so

(47:08):
have you found any other interesting tidbits that you're
like, we definitely need to consider that once a gym from
say whatever fill in the blank country is on?
Yeah, Germany is another example.
In Germany, there's a cultural expectation that you bring a
towel with you to the gym. It's a unwritten rule, but it's
a rule across really culturally in Germany.

(47:30):
And I know that because I don't really bring a towel with me to
the gym. It's just not, you know, that
just it's one more thing to carry.
I don't really need it. I also don't sweat that much
when I'm at the gym, so I'm not thinking where do I grab a
towel? However, in Germany, they will
stop you in the middle of the workout and give you a towel or
make sure that you have one or something on the gym floor to
have it. Because it's just a cultural

(47:50):
expectation of the space. We know that there are other
cultural expectations in certainreligious majority countries.
There's also, you know, certain situations where men or women
would need to be separated on the gym floor for safety
purposes, but also for cultural considerations.
So those are the kind of things that you really only learn on
the ground. But it also helped us shape

(48:13):
realize that we have to think about the user who's visiting
this place for the first time, coming into these cultures cold
and would have no clue about anyof these expectations or
anything else that they would need to do while they're trying
to go to the gym and just kind of live their lives.
So that's just comes back to thepiece of that.
You have to talk to a lot of people and you've got to

(48:34):
understand what it's like on theground.
And of course, there's no betterway of knowing what it's like on
the ground than visiting all these places.
So for me, when I was building fitness, I was like, I just want
to get paid to travel. I want to get paid so that way I
can go to all these places. I can see what it's like on the
ground, I can relay my information, but I wanted to
really know what it was like on the ground in all these places.

(48:54):
And so that's, that's my future while I'm building this thing
out, is learning these cultural considerations and just making
sure that we're designing a world class experience for our
users. That's really what's most
important to us is quality. You're living your dream like
you really are. I am, but it's hard.
Geo it is not it's it's so hard.There's so many times that I've

(49:17):
tried, not given up, but just I felt like I can't do this
anymore. This project has definitely
taken years off of my life. I've cried, I've cried a lot.
You know, I told my guys on my team, we're all guys at the
moment and I was like, you're going to see me cry, You know,
I'm going to get upset, I'm going to get frustrated, I'm
going to be tired, whatever I'm going to.
However, I'm going to be prepared for any scenario.

(49:39):
There is nothing that's going tocome across that I'm not ready
for, even if I'm in tears and like, I don't know how I'm going
to do this, but I'll, I'll figure it out.
But it's also like I said, I knew that I would be filled with
regret that I wouldn't want to live with for the rest of my
life if I didn't just try. And so I think that's the
biggest thing for anybody. If you have an idea, anything,
if you're an artist, if you're any, any kind of creative

(49:59):
professional to just try, just go for it.
Start today. There's lots of things that you
can do to start right now and then start and again tomorrow
and the next day. And then, you know, years down
the road, you're having podcast interviews like this, talking to
Jio, and, you know, you're telling others about your
experiences. This is like how this whole
thing started was like, I had this idea for years and finally

(50:20):
I said I'm doing it. I've I say this like almost
every episode, but of like, I'm doing it.
I'm just going to go for it. And you're, you're episode 29.
Yeah, I had 30 human beings say yes to talking to me about them,
about their life before I and then I'm gonna wrap season 1,
but like, that's 30 human beingsthat said yes.

(50:41):
And I have almost 15 for season 2 already.
Yeah, to me that that is a sign.That's like signs from the
universe that I'm like, this is this is something that is meant
to happen. Like I listened to that voice
inside of me that told me to do it.
And it's like, it's just like lining up, Yeah, you know?
Easy to talk to. Like I can see why people would

(51:01):
want to talk to you because I know you off the podcast also.
And so you're that kind of person that it's very easy and
natural to talk to you. So yeah, that doesn't surprise
me at all that you've been able to book so many people and I
wish you all the success in Season 2, three, 4-5, you know,
all, all the rest. We'll see.
Yeah, who knows where this is going to go?
But at least, like you said, I'mdoing it.
We're we're doing the thing. We're like listening to

(51:21):
ourselves. And that, that is like the ethos
of what graphic content is aboutis like how, how did you get out
of bed and say, I'm, I'm fucking, I'm going for it, You
know what I mean? It's a choice that you have to
make literally every day becauseit's easier to just go to bed.
It's easy, you know, I don't like, I have my coffee in the
morning, you know, I could just be, I could be chilling, you
know, I could be sitting on a mountain of stuff and just never

(51:43):
do it. Or that's the difference
between, you know, success and not is just showing up for
yourself and trying and just being consistent.
The the results will pay off. You know, the work will show, I
think, over time. Yeah.
So. You just got, I'm so excited for
you. And so when, so when you said
you're launching in October? Yes.

(52:04):
You know, fingers crossed by thetime that this episode is out,
everything will be fully launched.
We're starting in two markets most likely.
So we're starting in Austin, TX and then we're starting in New
York, I'm there at San Francisco.
And then after that, who knows? You know, we, the exciting thing
is that we could be building thebest fitness platform in

(52:24):
Paraguay, in South Africa, in Sweden, in, you know, Tokyo.
Like we don't know which market is going to latch on to this
idea. And that's going to be the
exciting thing is once we're fully live and out in the world,
as we're going to be able to seein real time where people are
searching for what, how much, you know, whether they look at
which amenities are important tothese people, where our traffic

(52:47):
is coming from. The days between buying a pass
that's showing up at the gym, all these data points are really
interesting. And that's really what gets me
really excited is to see the numbers and kind of watch the
Organism, you know, grow and, and, and live as people start to
discover us. What's your one of your like
goals that you have for the first year like now that you're

(53:07):
about to launch, like what, whatare you envisioning for it in
year 1? Year 1 would be being available
in all 50 states. That's number one.
Number two would be translationsinto French and Spanish because
we have a lot of international visitors, as you might imagine.
The idea is that if you're visiting from a different
country and coming to the US or coming to Canada that you don't,

(53:31):
that you can experience the app in your native language and that
reduces the language barrier between showing up and being
able to access. So I would say those are two of
our major milestones is being available in all 50 states,
being available in French and Spanish and then hopefully being
available in more than just the US by the end of next year.

(53:55):
We also have interest in e-commerce.
So that's something that I can give you a tidbit on is that
that is going to be our next expansion sometime in the spring
of next year and we've got a lotof other things going too.
You know, that's, that's what's really exciting about fitness is
that it can be any domain of fitness.
It could be a fitness class, it could be yoga pants for Diwali,

(54:17):
it could be a basketball league.It could be, it could be
anything. And for us it we're basically
throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.
And so far some things are starting to stick.
And so now we're thinking, OK, well, if this is starting to
work, what's the next, you know,vertical right next to what
we're building that builds on top of the infrastructure that

(54:40):
we've built so far. But the hardest part in any
business is going from zero to 1.
After you go, you go from zero to 1, then it's kind of not
easier, but it's, it's, it's a different phase once you're at
that stage. And so that's our biggest, our
biggest milestone is just getting from zero to 1 by
October, if not sooner. Sooner would be better, of

(55:01):
course. That's so exciting and honestly,
you're gonna do it just the way that you're taking it.
But you're very pragmatic in howyour approach is.
It's very a human approach as well, which is something that
you're like, let's not rush it. This has been your idea for how
long and it's taken this long. Let's make sure we cross our TS
dot the IS before we jump the gun.

(55:22):
And I have no worries for you that you're gonna hit your
targets. Yeah, I feel like I can't give
up now. Now it feels like we're right at
the finish line. And so there's many times that
I'm like, do I want to keep doing this?
Are we still having fun? Like, should we maybe like go
back to the medical clinic? And even though it was terrible,
you know, at least it was stableand predictable.

(55:42):
But then I'm like, no, we're right at the finish line.
We're about to see what's about to happen.
And so no, we can't give up now.That's like fumbling at the at
the goal bar. And once you cross the finish
line, that finish line's gonna move.
Yeah, I know, I know. You get to celebrate it for
maybe 24 hours and if last and then it's like, OK, what's the
next thing? There's always another thing to
do. 100% That's the thing though, it's like it never ends

(56:06):
right? Like then, but that's also like
the beauty of entrepreneurship is that you set a goal, you hit
it, and then suddenly you're like, OK, I'm here.
What, where do I go with this? Like, how do I make this?
How do I keep feeling engaged inthis?
Because that's the thing that makes me want to keep doing it
is like, how do I change it? How do I evolve?
Because otherwise I'm like, I don't, I don't.

(56:28):
Do I want to do branding forever?
Absolutely not. So I have a couple of questions
and then I will let you on your way.
But in your intake forum, you had mentioned that you're like
an open book, and I want to get a little personal.
OK. As somebody who's an
entrepreneur, you've been leading your team, like what is
something that's been unexpectedin being an entrepreneur that

(56:50):
you, like, weren't necessarily prepared for?
I would say it's the mental toll.
I would say that it's something that when you're building, you
build a lot of time on your own.You know, you spend a lot of
time with yourself. You know, I've, like I
mentioned, I haven't actually been at home in almost a year
and a half, which means that I've been building this thing on

(57:11):
my mom's dining table, you know,at a coffee shop in some of the
cheapest hotels in America. That's a story for a different
day. You know, you, you, you do a lot
of things in isolation. And even if you know that it's
hard, it is so much harder than you even think is possible.
And I think that that's why I'vebeen grateful to my therapist.

(57:33):
Hey, Hazel, you know, I'd love to be great.
You know, for me, checking in with my therapist has been like
essential, honestly. And even if I only speak with
her every, you know, 3-4 something months, but just to
have somebody there to make surethat you're at least able to
ground yourself when things get hard and also to support,
surround yourself with people that are supportive.

(57:55):
You know, I've been fortunate. My parents have been really
supportive. My, you know, family, I've got
some of my friends, they've beensuper supportive.
But just know that this thing isgoing to be even harder than you
think it's going to be and that you really have to make sure
that you have the infrastructurearound you for when things
crash. You know, I would say that this

(58:15):
year, you know, I certainly wentthrough a depression, you know,
over how difficult this was. You know, we had to let go of a
key person. We basically had to rebuild the
entire app from scratch. And there were just many times
that I'm like, I don't know if Ican do this.
I'm like, I literally cannot move.
I cannot get out of bed. I'm so stressed out, like I just

(58:36):
don't know what I'm going to do.And just because I, I was
fortunate that I had seen my therapist prior to starting this
journey. So she had seen me through
everything. And I would say that that is
probably the most invaluable resource that I have is at least
knowing and that I can talk to my therapist on some regular
basis, you know, for when thingsget hard.
And I think that's probably probably the biggest thing is

(58:59):
that you just don't, you can't, how do I describe it?
You can't know how much of a mental hurdle it is until you
start experiencing it. And then once you experience it,
you have to be prepared to try to figure out some tools to help
you get onto the other side. Because otherwise I would have
just stayed in bed. I wouldn't have hopped on the
podcast. I would have just like been in
bed for three months, just like wallowing.

(59:21):
I think you really do have to protect your mental health in
this process because like I said, it's it's way harder than
you even expect it to be. But big risk, big, big reward at
the same time. So that's probably the the thing
for me. There was like a meme or some
some comic book artists had put out and it was like what you
think the path is gonna be. And it's like just like a

(59:43):
straight line. And then this the comparison
like what it actually isn't. It's like the squiggles and it's
like that has been something that I've had to and I'm like an
overachiever. Like I, if I'm not achieving at
100%, I'm a failure. Like that's just, that's my own
like fucked up view of myself. And you know, I'm working
through that in therapy as well.My therapist is, I'd like day

(01:00:05):
one when I met him, I dumped so much shit on him and he was
like, so how does it feel to have been so open and
vulnerable? I was like, good, I got goals in
this. And he's like, OK, well, this is
not what this is like. I was like.
Let's get it. Going and he's like, you can't
treat this like a project, like,you know what I'm like, I know
you're right, but it's so true. Like and we have to, I have to

(01:00:26):
like this is me just speaking based on what you're saying,
like I thought to be very like calmer with myself.
And and that's a struggle in itself to be like, it's OK if
you're not firing off 100% like the cylinders or whatever the
saying is. You know what I mean?
Yeah, Yeah. It's unstainable to run at 100%
all the time. And I think when you're an

(01:00:47):
overachiever, like, you know, you are, like me, you just want
to do 100% all the time. But it's just it's not
sustainable and you're going to have a crash.
And those crashes are important because you do get clarity on
the other side. You know, you do kind of have to
have breakdowns to have breakthroughs.
And so I've had breakdowns this year, many, many of them.

(01:01:07):
And then once you kind of get through it and you're like,
well, I got through that breakdown.
OK, there are actually things that I can do, OK, maybe I can
try this or whatever it it's really the, the force behind
innovation is having those kind of breaks.
And so just making sure that youhave enough support around you
to help you through those dark times is, is essential,

(01:01:28):
especially when you're doing a start up because you have to do
everything yourself. You know, your job is to do 100%
and then 99 and then 95 and then80 and then whatever.
But at the beginning, before everything's popping, you're
doing 100% of the things. So really it is important to
stress that you have to have thesupports with you, whatever that
looks like, if it's yoga, if it's you know, and going for a

(01:01:49):
walk, if it's playing with your dog, if it's, you know, cooking
or writing or whatever. You have to have an outlet to
manage that stress because it's coming and it never really goes
away. I've never heard that saying the
breakdown. What was a breakdown
breakthrough? You have to have a breakdown to
have a breakthrough. Yeah, that's Iyanla Vanzant.

(01:02:09):
Yes, Yes. But it's true.
You do. On the money, on the money.
And so I have one final question, and this is my, I ask
every guest this question. You know, when I was like
starting to create the frameworkof the podcast, I was like,
what's something that I could ask?
And I love asking people cuz everyone gives me so many

(01:02:29):
different answers across the board.
And so if you were to look at your life, who either
professionally, personally, whatwould you say is the most on
brand thing about you? I guess I've always been a
positive energy person. You know, I've never been
somebody that just defaults intonegativity.
You know, I'm not somebody that really complaints a lot.
Even if like the food was terrible, I'm not necessarily

(01:02:51):
going to be like, this was the worst thing I ever ate.
Like what the I'm going to be like, it was fine, you know,
whatever. Like I'm going to conserve my
energy. And I think that's been my whole
vibe for the longest thing is just to be like chill and calm.
And that works up to a certain point.
There are sometimes in business where it's not the best to be so
chill all the time and that you do actually have to start taking

(01:03:12):
action. But on brand for me has always
just been about making sure thatI'm in an environment that I
like to be in and that the people around me are also
sharing in that positive environment.
You know, I've gone through so many negative things.
You know, I've had abusive relationships, I've had toxic
work situations. I've had just many
disappointments, betrayals, justlike just all these things that

(01:03:37):
normally I think could really make somebody quite jaded and
quite negative. And I think for me, I've tried
to, in those difficult times, look at them as a reflection of
the people and the space that that environment was happening
and not something that was inherent with me.
Like I wasn't negative or I wasn't toxic.
I was in a toxic environment. I was in a space where other

(01:03:58):
people were, where they were in their journeys, which wasn't
necessarily where I was. And that caused some conflict,
but I think I never internalizedthose negative things.
So I think maybe that's probablythe most on brand thing for me
is that I do look for the opportunities and the positive
more times than not. I'm not perfect at it.
I've got many, many faults and many things that I've got to

(01:04:21):
work on, but I think just makingsure that the environment that
I'm in is peaceful and calm and supportive and positive.
I think that's always been something that I've tried to do
personally and professionally, and certainly with fitness.
That's been my biggest thing, ismaking sure that the guys feel
supported in their work. So yeah, that's pretty on brand
for me. I can do that all day.

(01:04:42):
I can also do talks like this. I could talk to you forever,
Geo. So we could do three more hours
and I could do it. I know I would honestly love it,
although I'm not a Joe Rogan where I'm doing 4 hour podcasts
but once the viewership is therethen and people want it, then
I'll do it. Yeah, you got to.
Manifest it absolutely. I want to thank you so much for
taking the time to do this. I know that we've been talking

(01:05:05):
about this for a few months now and anybody who says yes and
takes time out of their busy schedule to talk to me just
means the world, especially as somebody who's like in the early
stages of this project, it meansthe world to me.
So I thank you so much. I'm so excited for you for
what's to come. You're like on the precipice of
like a new chapter, a new phase of your life, your career, and
that's very exciting. And I'm very happy to like catch

(01:05:27):
you at a time where it's like right before everything goes out
into the world. So of.
Course, well, I'm super glad that we made it work.
And yeah, I'm super glad that you invited me.
And so, yeah, I'm just really grateful to be here.
So thank you, Geo. No problem.
And so to anyone listening who would like to register for the
app, sign up, reach out to you like where can they find you and
fitness online. Yeah, So the app is called
Fitness. You can see it's spelled there.

(01:05:48):
It's kind of like Grinder is Grindr without the vowels.
It's Fitness without the vowels.So FTNSS dot fit you can get the
founder's edition that's available on the website now if
you want an exclusive badge, if you want some other lifetime
perks, that's available for purchase now.
And if you just want to support the project, follow us on

(01:06:09):
Instagram and TikTok. We're going to be posting a
quite a bit of content there. As you know, as many people
know, the fitness industry is really cyclical.
And so the Super Bowl for us in the fitness industry every year
is January 1st, new year, new body, new me.
I'm going to be going to the gym.
I'm going to be doing everything.
So for us, our North Star is always getting ready for for

(01:06:31):
January 1st and beyond. And so, yeah, so you can find us
there. And if you're in business and
want to talk business, you can find me on LinkedIn.
You know, we can include my links there.
And yeah, if you have any questions I'd I'd be happy to
answer them. Thank you, Jordan, and to
anybody who is looking to reach out to me, you can contact me
through geographic.com for any design questions.

(01:06:51):
Follow the podcast on Spotify, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok.
I'm like trying to do that. I'm like feeling like an old
lady trying to be cool on Tik. T.O.K.
So they're switch twos. Yeah, I know.
I'm I'm doing none of that. I'm just posting videos, but
even that I'm like this is it's is it?
Is anyone listening? Yeah, well, you gotta be

(01:07:11):
consistent. You gotta just do it.
Uh huh, exactly. So leave a comment, subscribe.
I would love the help with the algorithm means the world to me.
And once again, Jordan, I want to thank you so much for being
part of Graphic Content and we'll talk soon all.
Right, talk to you soon. Bye.

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