February 27, 2024 • 51 mins
When words cross paths with destiny, they can ignite a journey beyond our wildest imaginations. Join me alongside the multi-industry maestro John Neville as we share tales of transformation and the profound influence tennis, business, and technology have had on our lives. From a serendipitous elevator pitch that catapulted my career into a new orbit at Ericsson to the woven intricacies of trust and positive reinforcement, our dialogue is a testament to the power of communication. We celebrate the swift passage of life, reminding listeners to indulge in passions that go beyond the material, for it's these pursuits that truly color our existence with joy.
The symphony of life often mirrors the ebb and flow of sports, a theme we explore fervently through the lens of John's evolution from team sports to the solitary dance of tennis. We take you through a voyage of adapting to the rigors of an individual sport, adjusting workouts as we navigate aging and injuries, and embracing the buoyant embrace of swimming to aid in recovery and maintain peak fitness. Every scar, be it from sports injuries or the passage of time, tells a story of growth and the opportunity to embrace new beginnings, and we're unearthing the treasures hidden within these narratives.
Lastly, we chart the course of John's 43-year odyssey across the ever-transforming landscapes of leadership and communication. Reflect on the lessons etched by industry titans and the trials that have sculpted John's approach to building resilient teams. John casts a vision toward the horizon of generative AI and sustainable technology, inspiring us to consider our legacies in the wake of a post-pandemic world. As we peer into the future, poised at the cusp of 2024, we invite you to ponder the impact of your own contributions to society's fabric of well-being.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John (00:00):
This transcends business and personal, I think,
recognizing that words matterAnytime I found myself, in a
situation where I let ournegative emotion guide any
engagement.
anger, pressure.
It's hard to take back.
The consequences of lettingthat happen can last a very long
(00:23):
time.
So we all can probably think oftimes in life where shouldn't
have said that, shouldn't havedone that and it could have been
hurtful to people, just notnecessary.
What's the point, right?
So always positivereinforcement, even though
you're addressing a negativesituation with somebody, leaves
(00:45):
them better than putting them ina bad place or putting them
down or making them feelinsufficient or inferior.
Secondly, if you trust, makesure there's a foundation for
the trust, because the peoplewho you think are closest to you
are the ones that potentiallycould do the most harm if you
(01:07):
let them.
So trust has to be earned, notjust given, but last but not
least, enjoy it.
It goes by really quick andwe're all just passing through.
None of these things, if youlove them, will never love you
back.
None of these jobs, the money,won't love you back, it's what
(01:33):
you do with it.
So if you end up in your lifedoing what you love and call it
work, that's the best possiblescenario.
Klara (01:42):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Grand
Slam Journey podcast, where wediscuss various things related
to the Grand Slam Journey of ourlives Our athletic endeavors,
lessons we have learned fromsports and how we apply them in
the next chapter of our lives,including areas of business and
technology.
(02:03):
My today's guest is JohnNeville.
John has been one of theleaders who chose to hire me for
my first role at Ericsson, andI have been privileged to
observe and learn from hisleadership.
John is an avat tennis playerwith deep passion for creating
(02:24):
business around technology.
He has gone through sixdifferent industries and had
senior executive roles incompanies such as Nortel
Networks, Ericsson, adtramron,FogHorn Systems and currently
incubating several companies inthe generative AI space.
(02:45):
I still remember the firstmeeting where I had met John.
I was a recent MBA graduate andwas invited to participate in a
networking event that John wasattending Up and arriving, I
found myself in a room full ofother talented people.
(03:07):
There were probably 35 to 50 ofus.
John asked each of us tointroduce ourselves, use our
elevator pitch and, based onthat, he created a short list of
candidates who then wentthrough next round of interviews
.
For whatever reason, my shortpitch resonated with John and
(03:28):
I'm privileged to have beenselected as one of the
candidates and having theopportunity to go through the
interview rounds and eventuallylanding my first role at
Ericsson.
I find that we all have peoplethat come to our lives perhaps
randomly and certain bittersly.
John is one of those people forme and I'm thrilled that I had
(03:53):
the opportunity to talk to himon the podcast about tennis,
business technology and hisleadership style.
I hope you enjoyed theconversation.
If you do, please share withsomeone who may enjoy it as well
.
Consider leaving a review onApple Podcasts or Spotify and
feel free to check out theYouTube Grinslam Journey channel
(04:16):
if you wanna follow in a videoformat.
This is your host, claraEgocova.
Thank you for tuning in, andnow I bring you John Neville.
Hello John, welcome on theGrinslam Journey podcast.
How are you?
John (04:31):
Doing great.
Clara Nice, to be here with you.
I was looking forward to it.
Klara (04:35):
Yeah, I have as well, and I've always admired your
leadership and actually part ofthis conversation.
I want to thank you for yourinfluence on my life, you
actually being one of the keyleaders who chose to hire me at
Ericsson, which I still ponderabout why and how that happened.
Obviously, back when I started,I had no clue that I could do
(04:58):
the job that you hired me for,so I'm daddily grateful for that
first opportunity and the styleof leadership.
So I hope we'll dive into thataspect.
But we have many things incommon, including you being a
big tennis fan and tennis playereven now, so we want to talk
about that, as well as yourimpressive career, obviously, in
(05:21):
telecom technology and manythings that you're doing now.
So that's a quick intro from me, but I want to give you an
opportunity to introduceyourself, anything you want to
add and you want listeners toknow about you.
John (05:35):
Thank you, claire.
Well, first, of, all it wasvery easy to hire you after I
met you.
Some people you just recognizeright away their potential.
And I have to say that clearlyyou were one that the potential
was far greater than they evenrealized when we first met.
I just want to state that upfront and hopefully you know I
(05:55):
can cover 43 years in the timeallotted, but we'll take a shot
at it.
Klara (06:01):
I typically always like to start at the beginning.
I know you've had big passionin tennis, and so I'm curious if
you could tell us a little bitabout your upbringing.
Did you start playing tenniswhen you were young, or what did
your athletic upbringing looklike?
John (06:17):
I kind of wish that I had started tennis much earlier.
I would have avoided so manyinjuries by growing up playing
ice hockey and football.
But I didn't pick up tennis,claire, until I was late in my
teens and then on into collegeand then a pause, sort of to
raise a family, and then, oncethe children were old enough, I
(06:40):
got back into it to sort of earnmy meals every day, because
without the tennis it would havebeen very difficult with the
weight management.
Klara (06:49):
I enjoyed tennis and I do enjoy it abitly.
John (06:52):
now I'm living here in Florida so we get a seasonal
aspect that year round.
And again, I'm still using itas primarily exercise and weight
management, so I earn my mealsevery time I play.
Klara (07:05):
Yes, I've actually hadn't realized until recently, when I
started tracking my tennisworkouts with Apple Watch, how
demanding the sport is, becauseI feel like when you grow up
doing it, when you're a kid, yousort of take it as granted,
like running four or five hourson the court was just a normal
thing for me and I neverrealized how many miles and
steps you actually put inchasing the yellow tennis ball.
(07:28):
I think it's a really gooddistraction to actually get a
really good exercise in, and sonow as I look at my Apple Watch
after a workout, I was like wow,I burned what?
1500 moves calories, yeah, oneand a half hours, it is a good
exercise.
But actually I'm curious.
I do now remember you mentionedyou played ice hockey and
(07:50):
football earlier, which they'reboth team sports.
So how did you transition totennis?
What are kind of thedifferences that attracted you
to tennis?
And even while you'repassionate about it, I always
find that my guests share theirown personal things, what they
like about the sport.
So I'm curious about yours.
John (08:11):
Yeah, I mean growing up playing violent sports and, as I
mentioned already, theassociated impacts on the body.
I mean, at this point I havetwo metal hips.
I'll give that to ice hockey,primarily Growing up in a team
sport environment.
It's very competitive.
You learn how to be acompetitor.
You learn how to be acompetitor along with your
(08:33):
teammates and I think tennisoffered me the ability to
obviously continue to exercisewithout the violence, Although
it is the movements are violence, and I wish I could say that I
could do four or five hours,like you just mentioned, but for
the two to three hours that Ido get to
play.
It's very challenging becauseit's very aerobic.
(08:56):
The movements are sudden tostart, stop and I really enjoy
the competition without fear oftoo many injuries.
I still manage to fall into thenet sometimes when I'm rushing
for a drop shot, but far lessinjuries than hockey and
football.
Actually, you know the teamaspect because I do play doubles
(09:17):
.
So you know there's a, there'sa team there, even though it's
only two people, but you rely onthem and they rely on you.
So very similar to footballwhere there's 11 and ice hockey
where there's six.
So you know I enjoy the teamaspect of it, but I do enjoy
even the individual challenge.
It's very good and motivatingfor me to always have that in my
(09:38):
life.
Klara (09:39):
So do you play both?
Do you still play singles aswell, or mostly doubles?
I do.
I do play singles.
John (09:45):
I had to take a little bit of time off in between my
surgeries for my hips, but no,I'm back to playing at the
four-oh level and I play hereUltimate Tennis in Sarasota,
brampton and I did make it tothe semifinals in the last
season.
So, I'm proud to say that andjust so happy that I can do it.
Klara (10:07):
Yes, I mean that's impressive.
I have to say, the four or fivehours of training was back in
the day.
There's no way my body canhandle that amount of training
now.
I mean, I work out every daybut I can play tennis without
completely ruining my body,Maybe once a week, max once
every other week.
I always believe that the sportthat we used to play the most
(10:30):
is the one that hurts us themost.
So I have to tame my enthusiasmbecause as soon as I get a hope,
I was like maybe I'm pain freeand I can play.
Then it like sets me back andkind of the old injuries that I
created back in college Pickback up.
And so the problem I have is ittakes me a lot of time to
recover, which I don't have now,obviously, with a full time job
(10:53):
.
But I'm impressed how muchyou're still able to play,
especially after your hipsurgeries, and then we talked
several years back when you werepreparing, I believe, for your
first one.
So how is the whole process andrecovery for you?
John (11:10):
It's really eye-opening when you get to a point, for the
first time in your life, whereyou're limited by your movement
without having and experiencingvery intense pain.
So, as you know, if you doanything repetitive through your
life, those things are going towear out.
And I guess as an after effectof the violence force playing a
(11:33):
lot of tennis, furthercomplicating the issue with the
hip.
But it was good though, becauseI think what it forces you to
do is, with most things in lifeyou learn how to compensate.
You learn how to balance youractivities so that you don't
just do one thing.
I couldn't run with the hip andI needed to reduce my body mass
, so I started swimming.
(11:53):
So that limitation in my lifeforced me to learn to swim.
I taught myself on YouTube andsince then since 2011, I guess
I've been swimming almost everyday about a mile, and that's
also helped me with my tennis.
So it's sometimes how yourlimitations can help you expand
(12:14):
your horizons and open otherdoors.
So I maintain a regimen oftennis swimming, and, you know,
lightweight it's not so muchheavy anymore, but that gives
you the balance in my life to doeverything that's still within
my realm of possibility.
Klara (12:30):
Love that.
Did your swimming help with alittle bit of your back and
shoulder?
Because we just recently movedto Texas and we have a nice size
pool 25 meters and when I camehere I was like I'm just going
to swim.
Maybe just once a week I'll gointo the pool and swim for 30,
45 minutes because I've had alsoshoulder and back issues.
I think there's some thingsfrom tennis.
(12:51):
But I was like that may help.
And I did it once and I waslike, oh, this is a different
tiredness.
Swimming is not as easy as itwas in college so it's
definitely requires a different,just type of endurance.
What have you felt after addingswimming to your routine?
John (13:08):
Swimming is a great exercise.
You use a majority of themuscles in your body.
It helps your breathing, therhythm of your breathing and
your cardio endurance Because,as you know, if you run on a
treadmill every day, yourresistance to that exercise
builds and then, unless youchange the routine, you'll
probably hit a plateau.
(13:28):
So by adding swimming to therunning, it gave me more
versatility in my cardio and itcomplimented.
So I think that's the same wayin life.
I mean, look, just sticking ontennis, right.
If you play tennis only on onesurface, you become really a
good clay player, right?
And then when you challengesomebody on a different surface
(13:51):
like grass, and they playphenomenon grass you're going to
lose.
So it's the same, I found, witheverything the more versatility
you can get, the moreexperience you can get outside
of one particular regimen, thebetter you'll be at all of them.
So when you can be accomplishedin clay, you can be
(14:13):
accomplished in hard courts andyou can be accomplished in grass
, then you'll be like peoplelike Federer and Jochimich who
could win on all three, andthere are some that can only win
on one, and so their careersare somewhat more limited than
the others.
Right, it's the same inbusiness.
It's the same in exercise.
It's the same in diversity anddiet.
It's the same with your friends, your family.
(14:34):
The more experiences you canaccumulate in different
circumstances and scenarios, Ithink the more well-rounded and
better you'll be.
It's just no esophagus at thispoint.
Klara (14:45):
I agree.
I've had similar realization,especially with the workouts
that I do, as you mentioned,like if you get injured.
You just have to be creative infinding what is the next thing
that my body allows me to do andthat allows you to strengthen
in a different way.
So I had to stop doing CrossFitbecause I tweaked my back way
(15:05):
too much.
But I'm now able to dopowerlifting and focusing on
powerlifting.
That strengthens my bodydifferently, but I'm more
focused on the form and becauseyou're more still and controlled
movement, that allows me tokind of gain different strength.
But actually, going back to youand even diet, since you have a
really nice routine, what'syour routine now?
(15:26):
What do you follow?
How does your health fitnessweek look like, john?
John (15:31):
Sadly, as we get older, I mean, the metabolism changes, so
it becomes very important to bevery strict.
So I actually keep a food diaryand I limit myself now to a cup
of coffee in the morning and Iwon't eat anything.
I allow myself to eat between11 and noon and then I won't
(15:54):
allow myself to eat again untilfive o'clock and I cannot eat
after six.
So I'll limit myself to thatdiet every day and it seems to
be, along with the tennis andthe swimming and the lighter
weight exercise, accomplishingwhat I need to.
It wasn't always that way, butit's just a necessity when you
(16:16):
need to gravitate towards inlife and I think, again sticking
with the theme, I meandiscipline and then with
versatility, to balance yourlife.
It applies again with not onlyyour diet, your exercise, but
also in business and your career.
So I would say, not to belaborthe point, but I started 43
(16:38):
years ago and I worked 10 yearsin one industry and then I
shifted for another three yearsinto a different industry and
then subsequent another nineyears and since then I've
covered six different industriesand it's very similar to the
variability that you want tohave, the versatility that you
(17:00):
want to have with everythingelse your diet because all of
those different industries had acommon thread but they allowed
me to.
Every time in aggregate when Idid a change, it made it easier
to make the next change.
So, just like you're saying,when you balance your life and
you go outside the comfort zoneand you widen the box, it just
(17:23):
makes every new advancementeasier than the last one, as
opposed to just staying in thebox your whole life and then you
know, after so many yearstrying to get out of it, it's
very hard.
Klara (17:35):
I love that comparison.
It makes me think a little bitalso about languages.
Like when you learn languages,I think the more languages you
know, the next one you learn youcan compare to one of the
previous ones or you sort of putit together.
I feel like the third or fourthis easier to learn than perhaps
it was the first one becauseyou have some other base or
(17:58):
understanding to build on.
It seems like that's the samefor you and the industries.
Are you better at kind ofspotting, once you kind of learn
one and you transition to thenext one, spotting what the
similarities and differences are, and sort of are able to build
on the understanding that youhave built by working in the
(18:18):
previous one?
John (18:19):
Like I said, there's a common thread that run through
all businesses, industries.
It's pretty much people how youdeal with people you bring with
you.
But when you try to adapt,let's say, from IT computing
into telecom, into artificialintelligence and then into power
generation, Technology is alsoa common thread, but there are
(18:40):
different types of technologies.
Once you become adaptivelearning technologies, every new
technology you pick up becomeseasier to learn and you bring
with you the things that arecommon in business, which are
the interaction with people, theexperience with people, the
ability to know how to do deals.
But I would say that limitingyourself to any one particular
(19:02):
opportunity has some benefits,but in my life I can say that
trying different things hashelped me be better at all of
them, Just like languages, asyou said.
I think if you learn theromance languages, so once you
learn Spanish and French, it'smore common and then you can
probably become more adaptivelearning even different
languages like German.
Klara (19:23):
While we're on the industries, do you have a
favorite one?
I don't know if the current oneyou're in is your favorite, or
when you look at an industrythat you believe fits you really
well, how do you recognize thatis that even exists?
John (19:38):
The challenge is when you want to expand your horizons,
because the ones that you likethe most are always the ones
that you had the most success,so that would then tend to try
to keep you with familiarity inthe box.
The trick becomes when you dodecide to expand your horizons
(19:59):
stick with the new thing longenough so that you could take
what made you successful in thelast and apply it to the new
without getting frustrated, andalways going back to what you
knew best before.
I think that has allowed me tolook back on all of my different
endeavors in a positive way,because when you start a new
(20:25):
company or a new job or a newindustry, the learning part
could be either frustrating andyou give up, or it could be
exhilarating and it just makesyou focus more to conquer it.
And I guess that's the natureof competitive people they stick
with it, they don't letwhatever it is defeat them.
They want to defeat it.
(20:45):
But again that's another commonthread through everything we do
.
Klara (20:49):
Curious now, as you mentioned it, because I have my
own personal experience recentlywhen I switched from Ericsson
to Apple.
New beginning is it threateningor exhilarating for you?
How do you describe your newbeginnings?
Where do you thrive the most,john?
John (21:06):
I would say that every time I make a change, there
tends to be an opportunity fornegativity to creep in.
Oh, this was not what I hadbefore.
It's not as good.
I should have stuck with that,but I think it's.
It's sort of like a road with ahill, you know, you start on
the front side of the hill andas long as you're willing To
(21:27):
conquer the hill and get to theother side, then it's downhill
once you get to the top, and Ithink when you do that enough
and you made it to the topbefore then the top is always
attainable.
So for me it's.
I never stop until I reach thepeak and then, when I get to the
downside, it's time for anotherpeak, at least for now.
(21:47):
I don't know if I'll be able todo that forever, but for now
that's the key for me seeinganother peak and the
satisfaction that comes withreaching it.
Klara (21:56):
How do you recognize that you're on the peak?
Because I think that can beDifferent or could be difficult
in many ways.
You never know.
Well, is this a peak, is thisjust a valley?
And it's gonna go back up again, because life is never linear.
How do you know when is theright time to jump to a
different industry or find a newpeak to climb?
John (22:18):
We all live by Personal goals that we create, and then
there are also goals, as youknow, that are thrust upon us
Exterior goals, right?
So take Ericsson, for example.
It was definitely a big valleyin 2007 when there was no LTE,
verizon had done no businesswith Ericsson and I was offered
(22:41):
the job to take Ericsson intoVerizon and, and by 2016, nine
and a half years later, we werethe number one largest account
in history of the company.
So that's a well-defined peakright.
We've gone where no one elsehas gone before to the top and I
(23:03):
think at that point it wasclear to me that there was
another peak to be found.
So, when you get to the top,when you win the Grand Slam, is
it possible to win two GrandSlams or do you try something
different?
So I think that was my point.
When we won the Grand Slam andEricsson by bringing the Verizon
account to the top, it was timeto find another challenge.
Klara (23:25):
And just going back to tennis, and then I want to dive
into more of your career andleadership.
What are some of the keylearnings that you take from
tennis, because you're stillvery competitive now, as you
mentioned, you reached was it?
The semifinals.
How do you balance thecompetition on the court and how
does that mindset transfer toyour business?
John (23:45):
So, Recognizing your limitations in life, or is
probably the key to success, inaddition to recognizing your
potential.
But I could tell you in thesemifinals I learned because in
my life I've always chosen to.
There's no losing, there's onlylessons, right.
(24:05):
So I didn't lose the semifinals.
I've learned why I did and,quite frankly, it's a best of
three sets.
I won the first set 11-9 in atiebreaker, but that one set
took 90 minutes and by the endof that 90 minutes and I was
playing a gentleman who was 20years younger.
Klara (24:25):
Wow.
John (24:26):
I hit my wall of my two metal hips.
You know that's an extra fivepounds of titanium.
So I recognize that I couldn'tplay longer sets, longer points,
because I don't have age as myadvantage and I certainly don't
have a natural bodily structure,because the metal hips are more
(24:47):
difficult, they tire.
So I Ended up winning the firstset and losing the next set and
then lost the tiebreaker,simply because I didn't play it
properly.
I should have played shorterpoints instead.
You know baseliding, thisbaseliner, and so the next time
that won't happen.
I'll place your order points oftry to put more pressure, you
(25:09):
know, try to put away theapproach shots and not spend,
you know, an hour and a halfwith one set.
Klara (25:15):
I Mean, I just think the strategy.
It seems like you're leaned onhis game that you were
comfortable with, perhaps beforeas well, but realizing that you
need to change strategy as kindof you age.
Which brings me to Anotherthing that I also struggle with.
So I'm wondering how you'redealing with it, because the
(25:35):
problem with tennis I know Iwill never be as good as I was
when I played I think theproblem with sports and why
people eventually later on inlife abandoned the sports that
were great at Because, as youmentioned, like the peak of
improving Is.
I mean, it's not possible.
I don't have the time in theday.
I'm very much aware of aging.
(25:57):
I have many injuries from tennisthat I gotta navigate around.
So I get more sometimes joyfrom the other sports, say like
lifting, where I can graduallyimprove my squat or Push press,
or you can see very clearly theprogression of you being able to
lift more weights.
How do you deal with thatMentally, especially with that
(26:20):
two middle hips even?
I'm wondering like your doctorsurgeon probably Wasn't
recommending tennis as one ofthe sports to go back.
Many tennis players have hipissues because of the side
movements and they're justconstant back and forth.
So how do you, I guess onenavigate that in your mind and
even like, as you navigated theinjury and contemplating about
(26:41):
Going back to tennis, what madeyou still go back?
No, I need this in my life.
John (26:46):
It's good for me overall in the benefits, for me
personally, far outweigh therisks.
To answer your question, themain thing is, the enemy Of good
enough is trying to be great.
So I think when you're in thisposition in life where you're
(27:10):
ascending, you're young andyou're strong, you need to
transition from where youthought you needed to be great
to good enough, because now I'mgoing to learn to be good enough
to win, and it doesn't have tobe 6060, it just has to be good
enough to win.
(27:31):
And that's just something inlife you learn to accept with
most things.
Like you said.
Oh, you know, I realize I'm notgoing to be as good, but why
not just good enough?
Klara (27:47):
I am good enough, mostly now sort of the level I play,
and I had to adjust my mindset alot going back on the court.
Especially my serve hasn't beenserving.
It's gotten a little bit betterafter my shoulder surgery but I
know it will never be sort ofas I needed or I was used to my
(28:07):
serve to be, because that wasthe one that created my points.
So there's a bit of differentstrategy I need to play.
I get foot issues, which myCustom orthotics really help,
but I also can't run for toolong Because then my feet just
wear out really quickly.
So there's like a lot of thingskind of what you touched on,
(28:27):
the strategy.
I need to be very mindful ofwhat game I can and cannot
afford to play.
John (28:34):
So look at it this way, claire If you're practicing and
you're hitting with your partnerand next to you are Two women
who are playing in collegedivision one, do you look to see
how you can beat them, or doyou look across the net to see
(28:56):
if you're good enough to playthat person?
Klara (28:58):
Because there's a big difference, right.
John (29:00):
Which court do you belong?
On which court will you accept?
Yeah, I mean, it was a point intime when you could have gone
over to the other court.
Yeah right, but good enough.
Klara (29:14):
Becomes the new metric, because that's why we have
levels in tennis, mm-hmm.
John (29:20):
I mean I think I can make it back to four, five, with a
lot of work and dedication, butnot forever.
And In life you have levels too.
Klara (29:29):
Yeah, I guess it seems like you've really been able to
just focus on, as you mentioned,the court.
You're on and just measuringyourself Against sort of the
level of the game and maybe myproblem still is like deep down
inside, like I know what level Iam, but I don't want to accept
(29:49):
that level.
John (29:50):
Yeah, like I said, recognizing your limitations as
opposed to your ambitions thatMove beyond your limitations is
the key to success.
I Mean like in business, theycall it the Peter principle.
Right, rise into your level ofcompetency in Tennis with your
4-0 and you want to win the 5-0division.
Klara (30:13):
Well, that's a great ambition.
John (30:16):
But you know, there's a reason why five o's are five o's
and four O's are four O's right.
Klara (30:21):
Yeah, and so going a little bit more into your
recovery, two hip surgeries isno joke.
I think this is very invasivesurgery and it's hard to come
back to, especially again theside movement of tennis.
How did you navigate that?
What helped you get back on thecourt to recover?
John (30:42):
it was a combination of the movements.
In tennis you need to havestrength to your point switching
directions very quickly.
So I would say that when I didthe swimming, I did it with
purpose.
So I added some equipment, so Iadded fins for resistance on my
legs, I added paddles forresistance for my shoulders and
(31:04):
I just use that Low impact sportto build more strength in my
legs and shoulders, which arealso vital for tests.
So I did it with a purpose,because I knew that I'm not
competitive in swimming but Iuse it to help me be more
competitive in tennis and so,you know, adding those to the
(31:24):
regimen helped a lot.
So it strengthened my legsWithout impacting my joints and
strengthen my shoulders becauseyou know, as you know, the surf
that becomes problematic as well.
So, yeah, I actually use theswimming to compliment the
tennis and that helped with therecovery, and then the lighter
weight training Also complimentsthat as well.
Klara (31:46):
What do you do?
John (31:47):
for that?
Klara (31:48):
What do you do for your lightweight training?
What your routine typicallylooks like on my legs.
John (31:54):
I typically just do the leg extensions and the leg press
and then I use the flippers inthe pool and I have to do a
thousand meters in 20 minutes.
Otherwise you're not kickinghard enough, but you could
probably do much better than me.
So I think at this stagehappening just turn 65 again,
(32:15):
time is a thief and never ourfriend.
Klara (32:18):
So you take what you can back so let's make a transition
to your career, and maybestarting in telecom.
I'm actually even curious whatpulled you to the industry at
the beginning?
How did you find passion withtechnology and
telecommunications?
In any key learnings you wantto share of what you enjoyed
about that industry specifically?
John (32:40):
now I'm gonna date myself because we're going way back
Long before there was anythingresembling a cell phone.
So I graduated college in 1981.
I had two job offers, one fromIBM and another from a startup
which is now Eulig Packard.
My primary focus was to getinto sales and technology sales.
(33:02):
So I did pick the smallerCompany because I didn't want to
be in such a very bureaucraticenvironment.
So I went with digital and Idid that for 10 years and I
learned sales and my assignmentwas to be selling computers to
Bell laboratories in the telecomindustry.
That's where I was assigned andit was it was a good assignment
.
It was a growing industry atthat time because obviously you
(33:25):
know, in 1981, compared to wherewe are now, you know, you can
only imagine.
Klara (33:31):
Yeah, we had landlines.
We had pay phones.
John (33:34):
Over the course of the last 43 years, communications
have come a long way.
I've had the opportunity to seeevery single piece of it,
understand every single piece ofit and apply it, because it's
the foundational aspect for manyindustries, every industry I've
been in has had.
Klara (33:52):
Communications is sort of the foundational element to it
which is helping mm-hmm, andYou've had several different
leadership roles, obviouslythrough telecom and your best
career, even working at Verizonbusiness.
Nortel networks which actuallystill even when I was at
Ericsson there's many peoplethat were ex-Nortel and always
(34:14):
talked about Nortel is in manyways the star, but also the
debacle, as far as kind of whathappened to the company.
At the end, when you look atyour even telecom career, what
are some of the key definingmoments you would say influenced
your growth and leadership?
Are there maybe even specificroles that you really believe
(34:38):
that helped you push to the nextlevel, or examples you want to
share?
John (34:43):
I would say I was so fortunate to be associated with
some of the best people in theindustry coming out of computers
that are designed to Workwithin the operating environment
of telecoms.
I ended up working at what inthis down for Eisen, and I
(35:04):
happened to, you know, beassigned to work with and for
the who eventually became theCEO Verizon, ivan Cyberg, and
Just being associated with himfor that time period was
wonderful because I've learned alot and he was a gentleman of
humble background who, you know,actually built the largest
(35:25):
telecommunications company inthe world From a very small, and
I was able to be, you know,with him along, and not only
then working there, but thenworking, obviously you know,
outside of horizon, as a vendoror partner to Verizon.
So so, starting in Verizon andthen working to service Verizon,
he always used to say doesn'tmatter, john, you were on my
(35:46):
payroll, now You're stillworking for me off my payroll.
Klara (35:50):
So that was the benefit because when I went to Nortel
was to handle Verizon.
John (35:54):
When I went to, eric said was to handle Verizon, and Some
of the other ventures alsocentered around Verizon.
So it's good that Verizon was avery big company.
Klara (36:04):
Yes, I do want to touch base on what you mentioned and
what to me it stood out.
This kind of the support systemLike there's the truth of who
you associate yourself with andpeople say average, like the
five people around you is morelike who you become, and this is
a common theme across thepodcast and the interviews I
(36:25):
have.
What are you an athlete?
You always want to have thecoaches, or sometimes the
competitors, that push youfurther and help you uncover, as
you mentioned, your strengthsor limitations.
But it's equally important, ifnot more, in business when
you're trying to grow like whois your team and the support
system?
And I've seen kind of manydifferences, even for me
(36:48):
personally, as I reflect throughthe career that I've had
actually it's in tennis or nowbusiness and technology what are
some of the key things youwould want to suggest?
People and how to choose theright Team or be part of the
support system, because I thinkthat's also learning as I'm
growing and Realizing her.
(37:09):
Maybe this team wasn't theright fit and I sort of learn
through those experiences.
But as you obviously have somuch more experience, is there
something specific now, as youknow yourself, that you really
mindful about who the team is tohelp you become even better the
people that you need around you.
John (37:29):
Yeah, okay.
So first of all, the peoplearound you, Especially the
people who are in leadershippositions.
I must admit that I've learneda lot About what to do from them
, and then there are many othersthat I learned what not to do,
(37:52):
and I think the recognition ofthe difference between what's
good and what's not so good,because if you do things over
and over and repeat them, theybecome habits.
So it's really important tounderstand with the people that
surround you, especially theones that influence you from the
top, is the.
The moral compass north, is the, are the ethics north?
(38:15):
You know, always keep yourcompass north and Recognize the
good things and then, when it'sthe other way, recognize the not
so good things and avoidrepeating them.
And I think that's been reallyimportant Because sometimes just
the day-to-day activities Withpressure, if people handle
(38:37):
pressure different ways and it'scoming from above you, it's
easy to just Pass that down,even if it's destructive.
So if you learn how to filterout the bad and just Reinforce
the good, those to me are themost important things.
(39:01):
Mm-hmm.
Klara (39:04):
There is actually a special example that's coming to
mind and I want to call out foreveryone, because it was just
so powerful.
I think you and I had metseveral years back.
You came to our house for acoffee.
I've actually realized I'verecently went through maybe not
so good experience.
You said to me maybe it waslike one sentence.
(39:27):
It was like you got to move on,take the learning and move on,
which is literally what tennisplayers do too.
You can't be stuck on your loss.
You got to realize look, I lostto your semi-final example.
What do I learn from that andhow do I adjust my strategy?
And it was actually so powerfullike it made me realize oh my
(39:47):
god, why am I dwelling on this?
This is such a good learningand sometimes you learn from the
bad things even more Because,as you mentioned, it allows you
to define what you don't want tobe and what you don't want to
do.
How do you balance that youlike?
Looking back at your career,have you learned more from the
(40:08):
bad things that happened to youor the good things?
John (40:11):
That's a tricky one, because we have a defense
mechanism where we try toremember only the good things
and forget the bad.
But I would say it's probablyimportant to do both Recognize
the really good things and stillremember the lessons from the
(40:33):
bad, because then, if you don't,you're prone to repeat them,
and even you know when thingsget really tough they may let
them creep back in.
So I would say that balance iskey.
Don't ever forget the bad ones,even though it's painful to
remember them, and you know whenyou need a booth, tell yourself
(40:59):
well, I did overcome them andhere are the good things that
happened.
As a result, you're your ownbest cheerleader in life.
Sometimes you're your onlycheerleader in life, and that's
just got to be good enough.
Klara (41:17):
On that note, I do three things, or maybe top three that
where some of the key learningsand it can be like good example,
which you mentioned, some ofthe great leaders you have had
or bad example that reallyhelped you understand look, this
is what I don't want to be, andhow did you kind of pivot
(41:37):
towards the leader that you wantto be?
John (41:42):
So this transcends business and personal.
I think recognizing the wordsmatter Anytime.
I found myself in a situationwhere I let you know a negative
emotion guide any engagement,anger, you know, pressure.
It's hard to take that back.
(42:04):
The consequences of lettingthat happen can last a very long
time.
So we all can probably think oftimes in life where should I
said that, shouldn't I done that, and it could have been hurtful
to people, just not necessary.
What's the point right?
(42:26):
So always positive reinforcement, even though you're addressing
a negative situation withsomebody, leaves them better
than putting them in a bad placeor putting them down or making
them feel and you knowinsufficient or inferior Like
everyone else.
I have to admit that's happened.
So I would just go back in lifeif I could just undo those.
(42:50):
Well, maybe I wouldn't havelearned from them, but that's
what I've learned.
Don't let that guide yourbehavior.
Secondly, if you trust, makesure there's a foundation for
the trust, because the peoplewho you think are closest to you
are the ones that potentiallycould do the most harm if you
(43:12):
let them.
So trust has to be earned, notjust given.
And I think the last but notleast, enjoy it.
It goes by really quick andwe're all just passing through.
None of these things.
(43:32):
If you love them, we'll neverlove you back.
None of these jobs Right themoney won't love you back.
It's what you do with it.
So If you end up in your lifedoing what you love and call it
(43:52):
work, that's the best possiblescenario.
Klara (43:57):
I do love all of those things you shared.
Maybe just to bring up aspecific example and you know,
with the personally thank you,it meant so much to me early on
in my career to have a leaderlike you being present, and
you've always been away in adifferent office but I've always
felt that if I needed to talkto you you were accessible and
(44:21):
actually your style ofleadership.
Also, when you came visitedCalifornia or where in the
office that I was at, you alwaysmade time to catch up, whether
it was just for coffee, eventhough you've always had
business schedule and obviouslymeetings and other purpose, and
so that alone early on in mycareer like having a leader like
(44:42):
you create the time meant somuch.
So I'm very grateful for that.
You know, maybe not everybodyhas that type of leader and
opportunity and it had like ahuge influence for me and
motivation early on to like, ok,joe knows about me, I'd better
do a good job and I wanted to bemy best because I knew in some
(45:03):
shape or form you knew of me andobviously probably were aware
of the results I'm creating ornot creating and I want to be my
best leader and I want to be mybest leader.
I think I'm on your leadership.
I feel like even reflecting onmy career and again having you
as a first sort of big.
I almost feel there is a changein the style of leadership and
(45:25):
obviously you've been in thisindustry way longer.
How do you reflect onleadership when you were
starting and do you see anychanges of the leaders now and
how they behave, or anydifferences and trends?
John (45:40):
I think the world has changed a lot.
I mean, it used to be that weall gathered in a place, right,
we had to work to a location,and then we all spent a lot of
time together and communicationwas much more personal.
You know, nonverbalcommunication is supposed to be
(46:00):
really important, so all of thathas kind of changed post-COVID.
A lot of meetings like this aredifferent than meetings face to
face, so I think we're allgoing to be somewhat having to
adjust to our environment.
But you know, when it getsright down to it, the core
(46:21):
always remains the people, notso much what surrounds them but
what's inside them.
So, thankfully, that remains thesame.
You just need to find a way tofind what's inside people even
though you're not there withthem.
So now that's what you do, likewith these podcasts, you dig a
little deeper than a traditionalZoom call, right, and that's
(46:42):
much appreciated, clara.
So I would say the only thingyou owe me now is a tennis
lesson you got to get me so Ican beat that guy again, instead
of spending 90 minutes in oneset.
Klara (46:56):
Of course You're welcome anytime in our home in Texas.
We'll make sure we serve yougood, nutritious food.
We got a grass-fed meat, we'llget you protein going and we can
get you even a whole tennis capif you want.
John, we can prepare to makesure you're in touch.
John (47:14):
I'm not too far from you in my new office location in
Houston, so when I get downthere I'll be more than happy to
take the drive over.
Klara (47:22):
Excellent, you can show me your swim workouts too, so
it's a trade-off.
We have a good pool so we cango do some laps there.
John (47:30):
I'll bring my short flippers.
Klara (47:33):
You have transitioned, as you mentioned, through telecom,
to a different industry.
Now I know you're focusing alot on gen, ai, Smart,
intelligent data and information.
What are you most excited aboutas you move and transition from
your past industries to thisone, and how do you look at the
(47:53):
future opportunities ahead?
John (47:55):
So the generative AI we've been incubating two companies
and we're at the very tail endof that and that looks like
we'll be successful there withthe exits.
My latest venture is in clean,eco-friendly technology that
improves the environment.
So I think my swan song will behelping to sustain the planet
(48:21):
and make it a viable place Nowthat I know I'm going to be a
grandfather for the first time.
So I'm actually contributing tothe health and well-being of my
lineage as we move forward bydoing this green tech power
company.
So that's exciting.
Congratulations, just kind ofgiving back.
Yes, congratulations.
Klara (48:43):
And anything you want to leave for people as 2024 is here
.
Obviously, there's a lot ofunrest in the world, people
worried about the current wars,even the status of the economy,
any trouble, mind things thatyou would want to inspire people
to be doing more for yourself.
John (49:00):
What I use myself is can get really caught up in a lot of
negativity that's communicatedmany different mediums.
Again, take the information youneed before you make decisions,
but don't let the informationprevent you or scare you from
doing things.
I've always had this no, nofear, but be respectful of
(49:26):
danger, and there are a lot ofdangerous things out there that
could get in your way that youprobably, if you focused on it,
would get in your way.
Focus on the positive, thethings you can control and add
value.
That's it, simple.
Klara (49:41):
Like a tennis player, you got to know what's in your
control and you can only focuson your strategy and the tennis
ball when it's on your side ofthe court and what you do with
it.
Yeah, what color is the writingon the?
John (49:54):
board as long as you can figure that out.
You know you're doing the rightthing, right.
Klara (50:00):
Yes, speak about the focus that you have developed.
That was always the number onetrick, mike Ochi, to tell me if
your game is not going good.
You got to focus on the balland try to see it as close and
as good as what's written on it.
So that's how you know you'repaying attention on what's most
important.
Thank you very much, john.
(50:21):
Anyone who wants to reach outto you I know you're a busy man
you do have a LinkedIn profile.
I will add it, with yourpermission, to the episode notes
if anybody wants to connect.
Any other best way to reach youor stay in touch.
John (50:35):
No, that's perfect.
I look forward, though, toconnecting with you and playing
a little tennis, and even doinga few laps.
Klara (50:42):
Excellent, I did too.
I'll be expecting you.
If you enjoyed this episode.
I want to ask you to please dotwo things that would help me
greatly.
One, please consider leaving areview on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify or any other podcastingplatform that you use to listen
to this episode.
Two, please share this podcastwith a friend who you believe
(51:03):
might enjoy it as well.
It is a great way to remindsomeone you care about them by
sharing a conversation theymight be interested in.
Thank you for listening.
This transcends business and personal, I think,
recognizing that words matterAnytime I found myself, in a
situation where I let ournegative emotion guide any
engagement.
anger, pressure.
It's hard to take back.
The consequences of lettingthat happen can last a very long
(00:23):
time.
So we all can probably think oftimes in life where shouldn't
have said that, shouldn't havedone that and it could have been
hurtful to people, just notnecessary.
What's the point, right?
So always positivereinforcement, even though
you're addressing a negativesituation with somebody, leaves
(00:45):
them better than putting them ina bad place or putting them
down or making them feelinsufficient or inferior.
Secondly, if you trust, makesure there's a foundation for
the trust, because the peoplewho you think are closest to you
are the ones that potentiallycould do the most harm if you
(01:07):
let them.
So trust has to be earned, notjust given, but last but not
least, enjoy it.
It goes by really quick andwe're all just passing through.
None of these things, if youlove them, will never love you
back.
None of these jobs, the money,won't love you back, it's what
(01:33):
you do with it.
So if you end up in your lifedoing what you love and call it
work, that's the best possiblescenario.
Klara (01:42):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Grand
Slam Journey podcast, where wediscuss various things related
to the Grand Slam Journey of ourlives Our athletic endeavors,
lessons we have learned fromsports and how we apply them in
the next chapter of our lives,including areas of business and
technology.
(02:03):
My today's guest is JohnNeville.
John has been one of theleaders who chose to hire me for
my first role at Ericsson, andI have been privileged to
observe and learn from hisleadership.
John is an avat tennis playerwith deep passion for creating
(02:24):
business around technology.
He has gone through sixdifferent industries and had
senior executive roles incompanies such as Nortel
Networks, Ericsson, adtramron,FogHorn Systems and currently
incubating several companies inthe generative AI space.
(02:45):
I still remember the firstmeeting where I had met John.
I was a recent MBA graduate andwas invited to participate in a
networking event that John wasattending Up and arriving, I
found myself in a room full ofother talented people.
(03:07):
There were probably 35 to 50 ofus.
John asked each of us tointroduce ourselves, use our
elevator pitch and, based onthat, he created a short list of
candidates who then wentthrough next round of interviews
.
For whatever reason, my shortpitch resonated with John and
(03:28):
I'm privileged to have beenselected as one of the
candidates and having theopportunity to go through the
interview rounds and eventuallylanding my first role at
Ericsson.
I find that we all have peoplethat come to our lives perhaps
randomly and certain bittersly.
John is one of those people forme and I'm thrilled that I had
(03:53):
the opportunity to talk to himon the podcast about tennis,
business technology and hisleadership style.
I hope you enjoyed theconversation.
If you do, please share withsomeone who may enjoy it as well
.
Consider leaving a review onApple Podcasts or Spotify and
feel free to check out theYouTube Grinslam Journey channel
(04:16):
if you wanna follow in a videoformat.
This is your host, claraEgocova.
Thank you for tuning in, andnow I bring you John Neville.
Hello John, welcome on theGrinslam Journey podcast.
How are you?
John (04:31):
Doing great.
Clara Nice, to be here with you.
I was looking forward to it.
Klara (04:35):
Yeah, I have as well, and I've always admired your
leadership and actually part ofthis conversation.
I want to thank you for yourinfluence on my life, you
actually being one of the keyleaders who chose to hire me at
Ericsson, which I still ponderabout why and how that happened.
Obviously, back when I started,I had no clue that I could do
(04:58):
the job that you hired me for,so I'm daddily grateful for that
first opportunity and the styleof leadership.
So I hope we'll dive into thataspect.
But we have many things incommon, including you being a
big tennis fan and tennis playereven now, so we want to talk
about that, as well as yourimpressive career, obviously, in
(05:21):
telecom technology and manythings that you're doing now.
So that's a quick intro from me, but I want to give you an
opportunity to introduceyourself, anything you want to
add and you want listeners toknow about you.
John (05:35):
Thank you, claire.
Well, first, of, all it wasvery easy to hire you after I
met you.
Some people you just recognizeright away their potential.
And I have to say that clearlyyou were one that the potential
was far greater than they evenrealized when we first met.
I just want to state that upfront and hopefully you know I
(05:55):
can cover 43 years in the timeallotted, but we'll take a shot
at it.
Klara (06:01):
I typically always like to start at the beginning.
I know you've had big passionin tennis, and so I'm curious if
you could tell us a little bitabout your upbringing.
Did you start playing tenniswhen you were young, or what did
your athletic upbringing looklike?
John (06:17):
I kind of wish that I had started tennis much earlier.
I would have avoided so manyinjuries by growing up playing
ice hockey and football.
But I didn't pick up tennis,claire, until I was late in my
teens and then on into collegeand then a pause, sort of to
raise a family, and then, oncethe children were old enough, I
(06:40):
got back into it to sort of earnmy meals every day, because
without the tennis it would havebeen very difficult with the
weight management.
Klara (06:49):
I enjoyed tennis and I do enjoy it abitly.
John (06:52):
now I'm living here in Florida so we get a seasonal
aspect that year round.
And again, I'm still using itas primarily exercise and weight
management, so I earn my mealsevery time I play.
Klara (07:05):
Yes, I've actually hadn't realized until recently, when I
started tracking my tennisworkouts with Apple Watch, how
demanding the sport is, becauseI feel like when you grow up
doing it, when you're a kid, yousort of take it as granted,
like running four or five hourson the court was just a normal
thing for me and I neverrealized how many miles and
steps you actually put inchasing the yellow tennis ball.
(07:28):
I think it's a really gooddistraction to actually get a
really good exercise in, and sonow as I look at my Apple Watch
after a workout, I was like wow,I burned what?
1500 moves calories, yeah, oneand a half hours, it is a good
exercise.
But actually I'm curious.
I do now remember you mentionedyou played ice hockey and
(07:50):
football earlier, which they'reboth team sports.
So how did you transition totennis?
What are kind of thedifferences that attracted you
to tennis?
And even while you'repassionate about it, I always
find that my guests share theirown personal things, what they
like about the sport.
So I'm curious about yours.
John (08:11):
Yeah, I mean growing up playing violent sports and, as I
mentioned already, theassociated impacts on the body.
I mean, at this point I havetwo metal hips.
I'll give that to ice hockey,primarily Growing up in a team
sport environment.
It's very competitive.
You learn how to be acompetitor.
You learn how to be acompetitor along with your
(08:33):
teammates and I think tennisoffered me the ability to
obviously continue to exercisewithout the violence, Although
it is the movements are violence, and I wish I could say that I
could do four or five hours,like you just mentioned, but for
the two to three hours that Ido get to
play.
It's very challenging becauseit's very aerobic.
(08:56):
The movements are sudden tostart, stop and I really enjoy
the competition without fear oftoo many injuries.
I still manage to fall into thenet sometimes when I'm rushing
for a drop shot, but far lessinjuries than hockey and
football.
Actually, you know the teamaspect because I do play doubles
(09:17):
.
So you know there's a, there'sa team there, even though it's
only two people, but you rely onthem and they rely on you.
So very similar to footballwhere there's 11 and ice hockey
where there's six.
So you know I enjoy the teamaspect of it, but I do enjoy
even the individual challenge.
It's very good and motivatingfor me to always have that in my
(09:38):
life.
Klara (09:39):
So do you play both?
Do you still play singles aswell, or mostly doubles?
I do.
I do play singles.
John (09:45):
I had to take a little bit of time off in between my
surgeries for my hips, but no,I'm back to playing at the
four-oh level and I play hereUltimate Tennis in Sarasota,
brampton and I did make it tothe semifinals in the last
season.
So, I'm proud to say that andjust so happy that I can do it.
Klara (10:07):
Yes, I mean that's impressive.
I have to say, the four or fivehours of training was back in
the day.
There's no way my body canhandle that amount of training
now.
I mean, I work out every daybut I can play tennis without
completely ruining my body,Maybe once a week, max once
every other week.
I always believe that the sportthat we used to play the most
(10:30):
is the one that hurts us themost.
So I have to tame my enthusiasmbecause as soon as I get a hope,
I was like maybe I'm pain freeand I can play.
Then it like sets me back andkind of the old injuries that I
created back in college Pickback up.
And so the problem I have is ittakes me a lot of time to
recover, which I don't have now,obviously, with a full time job
(10:53):
.
But I'm impressed how muchyou're still able to play,
especially after your hipsurgeries, and then we talked
several years back when you werepreparing, I believe, for your
first one.
So how is the whole process andrecovery for you?
John (11:10):
It's really eye-opening when you get to a point, for the
first time in your life, whereyou're limited by your movement
without having and experiencingvery intense pain.
So, as you know, if you doanything repetitive through your
life, those things are going towear out.
And I guess as an after effectof the violence force playing a
(11:33):
lot of tennis, furthercomplicating the issue with the
hip.
But it was good though, becauseI think what it forces you to
do is, with most things in lifeyou learn how to compensate.
You learn how to balance youractivities so that you don't
just do one thing.
I couldn't run with the hip andI needed to reduce my body mass
, so I started swimming.
(11:53):
So that limitation in my lifeforced me to learn to swim.
I taught myself on YouTube andsince then since 2011, I guess
I've been swimming almost everyday about a mile, and that's
also helped me with my tennis.
So it's sometimes how yourlimitations can help you expand
(12:14):
your horizons and open otherdoors.
So I maintain a regimen oftennis swimming, and, you know,
lightweight it's not so muchheavy anymore, but that gives
you the balance in my life to doeverything that's still within
my realm of possibility.
Klara (12:30):
Love that.
Did your swimming help with alittle bit of your back and
shoulder?
Because we just recently movedto Texas and we have a nice size
pool 25 meters and when I camehere I was like I'm just going
to swim.
Maybe just once a week I'll gointo the pool and swim for 30,
45 minutes because I've had alsoshoulder and back issues.
I think there's some thingsfrom tennis.
(12:51):
But I was like that may help.
And I did it once and I waslike, oh, this is a different
tiredness.
Swimming is not as easy as itwas in college so it's
definitely requires a different,just type of endurance.
What have you felt after addingswimming to your routine?
John (13:08):
Swimming is a great exercise.
You use a majority of themuscles in your body.
It helps your breathing, therhythm of your breathing and
your cardio endurance Because,as you know, if you run on a
treadmill every day, yourresistance to that exercise
builds and then, unless youchange the routine, you'll
probably hit a plateau.
(13:28):
So by adding swimming to therunning, it gave me more
versatility in my cardio and itcomplimented.
So I think that's the same wayin life.
I mean, look, just sticking ontennis, right.
If you play tennis only on onesurface, you become really a
good clay player, right?
And then when you challengesomebody on a different surface
(13:51):
like grass, and they playphenomenon grass you're going to
lose.
So it's the same, I found, witheverything the more versatility
you can get, the moreexperience you can get outside
of one particular regimen, thebetter you'll be at all of them.
So when you can be accomplishedin clay, you can be
(14:13):
accomplished in hard courts andyou can be accomplished in grass
, then you'll be like peoplelike Federer and Jochimich who
could win on all three, andthere are some that can only win
on one, and so their careersare somewhat more limited than
the others.
Right, it's the same inbusiness.
It's the same in exercise.
It's the same in diversity anddiet.
It's the same with your friends, your family.
(14:34):
The more experiences you canaccumulate in different
circumstances and scenarios, Ithink the more well-rounded and
better you'll be.
It's just no esophagus at thispoint.
Klara (14:45):
I agree.
I've had similar realization,especially with the workouts
that I do, as you mentioned,like if you get injured.
You just have to be creative infinding what is the next thing
that my body allows me to do andthat allows you to strengthen
in a different way.
So I had to stop doing CrossFitbecause I tweaked my back way
(15:05):
too much.
But I'm now able to dopowerlifting and focusing on
powerlifting.
That strengthens my bodydifferently, but I'm more
focused on the form and becauseyou're more still and controlled
movement, that allows me tokind of gain different strength.
But actually, going back to youand even diet, since you have a
really nice routine, what'syour routine now?
(15:26):
What do you follow?
How does your health fitnessweek look like, john?
John (15:31):
Sadly, as we get older, I mean, the metabolism changes, so
it becomes very important to bevery strict.
So I actually keep a food diaryand I limit myself now to a cup
of coffee in the morning and Iwon't eat anything.
I allow myself to eat between11 and noon and then I won't
(15:54):
allow myself to eat again untilfive o'clock and I cannot eat
after six.
So I'll limit myself to thatdiet every day and it seems to
be, along with the tennis andthe swimming and the lighter
weight exercise, accomplishingwhat I need to.
It wasn't always that way, butit's just a necessity when you
(16:16):
need to gravitate towards inlife and I think, again sticking
with the theme, I meandiscipline and then with
versatility, to balance yourlife.
It applies again with not onlyyour diet, your exercise, but
also in business and your career.
So I would say, not to belaborthe point, but I started 43
(16:38):
years ago and I worked 10 yearsin one industry and then I
shifted for another three yearsinto a different industry and
then subsequent another nineyears and since then I've
covered six different industriesand it's very similar to the
variability that you want tohave, the versatility that you
(17:00):
want to have with everythingelse your diet because all of
those different industries had acommon thread but they allowed
me to.
Every time in aggregate when Idid a change, it made it easier
to make the next change.
So, just like you're saying,when you balance your life and
you go outside the comfort zoneand you widen the box, it just
(17:23):
makes every new advancementeasier than the last one, as
opposed to just staying in thebox your whole life and then you
know, after so many yearstrying to get out of it, it's
very hard.
Klara (17:35):
I love that comparison.
It makes me think a little bitalso about languages.
Like when you learn languages,I think the more languages you
know, the next one you learn youcan compare to one of the
previous ones or you sort of putit together.
I feel like the third or fourthis easier to learn than perhaps
it was the first one becauseyou have some other base or
(17:58):
understanding to build on.
It seems like that's the samefor you and the industries.
Are you better at kind ofspotting, once you kind of learn
one and you transition to thenext one, spotting what the
similarities and differences are, and sort of are able to build
on the understanding that youhave built by working in the
(18:18):
previous one?
John (18:19):
Like I said, there's a common thread that run through
all businesses, industries.
It's pretty much people how youdeal with people you bring with
you.
But when you try to adapt,let's say, from IT computing
into telecom, into artificialintelligence and then into power
generation, Technology is alsoa common thread, but there are
(18:40):
different types of technologies.
Once you become adaptivelearning technologies, every new
technology you pick up becomeseasier to learn and you bring
with you the things that arecommon in business, which are
the interaction with people, theexperience with people, the
ability to know how to do deals.
But I would say that limitingyourself to any one particular
(19:02):
opportunity has some benefits,but in my life I can say that
trying different things hashelped me be better at all of
them, Just like languages, asyou said.
I think if you learn theromance languages, so once you
learn Spanish and French, it'smore common and then you can
probably become more adaptivelearning even different
languages like German.
Klara (19:23):
While we're on the industries, do you have a
favorite one?
I don't know if the current oneyou're in is your favorite, or
when you look at an industrythat you believe fits you really
well, how do you recognize thatis that even exists?
John (19:38):
The challenge is when you want to expand your horizons,
because the ones that you likethe most are always the ones
that you had the most success,so that would then tend to try
to keep you with familiarity inthe box.
The trick becomes when you dodecide to expand your horizons
(19:59):
stick with the new thing longenough so that you could take
what made you successful in thelast and apply it to the new
without getting frustrated, andalways going back to what you
knew best before.
I think that has allowed me tolook back on all of my different
endeavors in a positive way,because when you start a new
(20:25):
company or a new job or a newindustry, the learning part
could be either frustrating andyou give up, or it could be
exhilarating and it just makesyou focus more to conquer it.
And I guess that's the natureof competitive people they stick
with it, they don't letwhatever it is defeat them.
They want to defeat it.
(20:45):
But again that's another commonthread through everything we do
.
Klara (20:49):
Curious now, as you mentioned it, because I have my
own personal experience recentlywhen I switched from Ericsson
to Apple.
New beginning is it threateningor exhilarating for you?
How do you describe your newbeginnings?
Where do you thrive the most,john?
John (21:06):
I would say that every time I make a change, there
tends to be an opportunity fornegativity to creep in.
Oh, this was not what I hadbefore.
It's not as good.
I should have stuck with that,but I think it's.
It's sort of like a road with ahill, you know, you start on
the front side of the hill andas long as you're willing To
(21:27):
conquer the hill and get to theother side, then it's downhill
once you get to the top, and Ithink when you do that enough
and you made it to the topbefore then the top is always
attainable.
So for me it's.
I never stop until I reach thepeak and then, when I get to the
downside, it's time for anotherpeak, at least for now.
(21:47):
I don't know if I'll be able todo that forever, but for now
that's the key for me seeinganother peak and the
satisfaction that comes withreaching it.
Klara (21:56):
How do you recognize that you're on the peak?
Because I think that can beDifferent or could be difficult
in many ways.
You never know.
Well, is this a peak, is thisjust a valley?
And it's gonna go back up again, because life is never linear.
How do you know when is theright time to jump to a
different industry or find a newpeak to climb?
John (22:18):
We all live by Personal goals that we create, and then
there are also goals, as youknow, that are thrust upon us
Exterior goals, right?
So take Ericsson, for example.
It was definitely a big valleyin 2007 when there was no LTE,
verizon had done no businesswith Ericsson and I was offered
(22:41):
the job to take Ericsson intoVerizon and, and by 2016, nine
and a half years later, we werethe number one largest account
in history of the company.
So that's a well-defined peakright.
We've gone where no one elsehas gone before to the top and I
(23:03):
think at that point it wasclear to me that there was
another peak to be found.
So, when you get to the top,when you win the Grand Slam, is
it possible to win two GrandSlams or do you try something
different?
So I think that was my point.
When we won the Grand Slam andEricsson by bringing the Verizon
account to the top, it was timeto find another challenge.
Klara (23:25):
And just going back to tennis, and then I want to dive
into more of your career andleadership.
What are some of the keylearnings that you take from
tennis, because you're stillvery competitive now, as you
mentioned, you reached was it?
The semifinals.
How do you balance thecompetition on the court and how
does that mindset transfer toyour business?
John (23:45):
So, Recognizing your limitations in life, or is
probably the key to success, inaddition to recognizing your
potential.
But I could tell you in thesemifinals I learned because in
my life I've always chosen to.
There's no losing, there's onlylessons, right.
(24:05):
So I didn't lose the semifinals.
I've learned why I did and,quite frankly, it's a best of
three sets.
I won the first set 11-9 in atiebreaker, but that one set
took 90 minutes and by the endof that 90 minutes and I was
playing a gentleman who was 20years younger.
Klara (24:25):
Wow.
John (24:26):
I hit my wall of my two metal hips.
You know that's an extra fivepounds of titanium.
So I recognize that I couldn'tplay longer sets, longer points,
because I don't have age as myadvantage and I certainly don't
have a natural bodily structure,because the metal hips are more
(24:47):
difficult, they tire.
So I Ended up winning the firstset and losing the next set and
then lost the tiebreaker,simply because I didn't play it
properly.
I should have played shorterpoints instead.
You know baseliding, thisbaseliner, and so the next time
that won't happen.
I'll place your order points oftry to put more pressure, you
(25:09):
know, try to put away theapproach shots and not spend,
you know, an hour and a halfwith one set.
Klara (25:15):
I Mean, I just think the strategy.
It seems like you're leaned onhis game that you were
comfortable with, perhaps beforeas well, but realizing that you
need to change strategy as kindof you age.
Which brings me to Anotherthing that I also struggle with.
So I'm wondering how you'redealing with it, because the
(25:35):
problem with tennis I know Iwill never be as good as I was
when I played I think theproblem with sports and why
people eventually later on inlife abandoned the sports that
were great at Because, as youmentioned, like the peak of
improving Is.
I mean, it's not possible.
I don't have the time in theday.
I'm very much aware of aging.
(25:57):
I have many injuries from tennisthat I gotta navigate around.
So I get more sometimes joyfrom the other sports, say like
lifting, where I can graduallyimprove my squat or Push press,
or you can see very clearly theprogression of you being able to
lift more weights.
How do you deal with thatMentally, especially with that
(26:20):
two middle hips even?
I'm wondering like your doctorsurgeon probably Wasn't
recommending tennis as one ofthe sports to go back.
Many tennis players have hipissues because of the side
movements and they're justconstant back and forth.
So how do you, I guess onenavigate that in your mind and
even like, as you navigated theinjury and contemplating about
(26:41):
Going back to tennis, what madeyou still go back?
No, I need this in my life.
John (26:46):
It's good for me overall in the benefits, for me
personally, far outweigh therisks.
To answer your question, themain thing is, the enemy Of good
enough is trying to be great.
So I think when you're in thisposition in life where you're
(27:10):
ascending, you're young andyou're strong, you need to
transition from where youthought you needed to be great
to good enough, because now I'mgoing to learn to be good enough
to win, and it doesn't have tobe 6060, it just has to be good
enough to win.
(27:31):
And that's just something inlife you learn to accept with
most things.
Like you said.
Oh, you know, I realize I'm notgoing to be as good, but why
not just good enough?
Klara (27:47):
I am good enough, mostly now sort of the level I play,
and I had to adjust my mindset alot going back on the court.
Especially my serve hasn't beenserving.
It's gotten a little bit betterafter my shoulder surgery but I
know it will never be sort ofas I needed or I was used to my
(28:07):
serve to be, because that wasthe one that created my points.
So there's a bit of differentstrategy I need to play.
I get foot issues, which myCustom orthotics really help,
but I also can't run for toolong Because then my feet just
wear out really quickly.
So there's like a lot of thingskind of what you touched on,
(28:27):
the strategy.
I need to be very mindful ofwhat game I can and cannot
afford to play.
John (28:34):
So look at it this way, claire If you're practicing and
you're hitting with your partnerand next to you are Two women
who are playing in collegedivision one, do you look to see
how you can beat them, or doyou look across the net to see
(28:56):
if you're good enough to playthat person?
Klara (28:58):
Because there's a big difference, right.
John (29:00):
Which court do you belong?
On which court will you accept?
Yeah, I mean, it was a point intime when you could have gone
over to the other court.
Yeah right, but good enough.
Klara (29:14):
Becomes the new metric, because that's why we have
levels in tennis, mm-hmm.
John (29:20):
I mean I think I can make it back to four, five, with a
lot of work and dedication, butnot forever.
And In life you have levels too.
Klara (29:29):
Yeah, I guess it seems like you've really been able to
just focus on, as you mentioned,the court.
You're on and just measuringyourself Against sort of the
level of the game and maybe myproblem still is like deep down
inside, like I know what level Iam, but I don't want to accept
(29:49):
that level.
John (29:50):
Yeah, like I said, recognizing your limitations as
opposed to your ambitions thatMove beyond your limitations is
the key to success.
I Mean like in business, theycall it the Peter principle.
Right, rise into your level ofcompetency in Tennis with your
4-0 and you want to win the 5-0division.
Klara (30:13):
Well, that's a great ambition.
John (30:16):
But you know, there's a reason why five o's are five o's
and four O's are four O's right.
Klara (30:21):
Yeah, and so going a little bit more into your
recovery, two hip surgeries isno joke.
I think this is very invasivesurgery and it's hard to come
back to, especially again theside movement of tennis.
How did you navigate that?
What helped you get back on thecourt to recover?
John (30:42):
it was a combination of the movements.
In tennis you need to havestrength to your point switching
directions very quickly.
So I would say that when I didthe swimming, I did it with
purpose.
So I added some equipment, so Iadded fins for resistance on my
legs, I added paddles forresistance for my shoulders and
(31:04):
I just use that Low impact sportto build more strength in my
legs and shoulders, which arealso vital for tests.
So I did it with a purpose,because I knew that I'm not
competitive in swimming but Iuse it to help me be more
competitive in tennis and so,you know, adding those to the
(31:24):
regimen helped a lot.
So it strengthened my legsWithout impacting my joints and
strengthen my shoulders becauseyou know, as you know, the surf
that becomes problematic as well.
So, yeah, I actually use theswimming to compliment the
tennis and that helped with therecovery, and then the lighter
weight training Also complimentsthat as well.
Klara (31:46):
What do you do?
John (31:47):
for that?
Klara (31:48):
What do you do for your lightweight training?
What your routine typicallylooks like on my legs.
John (31:54):
I typically just do the leg extensions and the leg press
and then I use the flippers inthe pool and I have to do a
thousand meters in 20 minutes.
Otherwise you're not kickinghard enough, but you could
probably do much better than me.
So I think at this stagehappening just turn 65 again,
(32:15):
time is a thief and never ourfriend.
Klara (32:18):
So you take what you can back so let's make a transition
to your career, and maybestarting in telecom.
I'm actually even curious whatpulled you to the industry at
the beginning?
How did you find passion withtechnology and
telecommunications?
In any key learnings you wantto share of what you enjoyed
about that industry specifically?
John (32:40):
now I'm gonna date myself because we're going way back
Long before there was anythingresembling a cell phone.
So I graduated college in 1981.
I had two job offers, one fromIBM and another from a startup
which is now Eulig Packard.
My primary focus was to getinto sales and technology sales.
(33:02):
So I did pick the smallerCompany because I didn't want to
be in such a very bureaucraticenvironment.
So I went with digital and Idid that for 10 years and I
learned sales and my assignmentwas to be selling computers to
Bell laboratories in the telecomindustry.
That's where I was assigned andit was it was a good assignment
.
It was a growing industry atthat time because obviously you
(33:25):
know, in 1981, compared to wherewe are now, you know, you can
only imagine.
Klara (33:31):
Yeah, we had landlines.
We had pay phones.
John (33:34):
Over the course of the last 43 years, communications
have come a long way.
I've had the opportunity to seeevery single piece of it,
understand every single piece ofit and apply it, because it's
the foundational aspect for manyindustries, every industry I've
been in has had.
Klara (33:52):
Communications is sort of the foundational element to it
which is helping mm-hmm, andYou've had several different
leadership roles, obviouslythrough telecom and your best
career, even working at Verizonbusiness.
Nortel networks which actuallystill even when I was at
Ericsson there's many peoplethat were ex-Nortel and always
(34:14):
talked about Nortel is in manyways the star, but also the
debacle, as far as kind of whathappened to the company.
At the end, when you look atyour even telecom career, what
are some of the key definingmoments you would say influenced
your growth and leadership?
Are there maybe even specificroles that you really believe
(34:38):
that helped you push to the nextlevel, or examples you want to
share?
John (34:43):
I would say I was so fortunate to be associated with
some of the best people in theindustry coming out of computers
that are designed to Workwithin the operating environment
of telecoms.
I ended up working at what inthis down for Eisen, and I
(35:04):
happened to, you know, beassigned to work with and for
the who eventually became theCEO Verizon, ivan Cyberg, and
Just being associated with himfor that time period was
wonderful because I've learned alot and he was a gentleman of
humble background who, you know,actually built the largest
(35:25):
telecommunications company inthe world From a very small, and
I was able to be, you know,with him along, and not only
then working there, but thenworking, obviously you know,
outside of horizon, as a vendoror partner to Verizon.
So so, starting in Verizon andthen working to service Verizon,
he always used to say doesn'tmatter, john, you were on my
(35:46):
payroll, now You're stillworking for me off my payroll.
Klara (35:50):
So that was the benefit because when I went to Nortel
was to handle Verizon.
John (35:54):
When I went to, eric said was to handle Verizon, and Some
of the other ventures alsocentered around Verizon.
So it's good that Verizon was avery big company.
Klara (36:04):
Yes, I do want to touch base on what you mentioned and
what to me it stood out.
This kind of the support systemLike there's the truth of who
you associate yourself with andpeople say average, like the
five people around you is morelike who you become, and this is
a common theme across thepodcast and the interviews I
(36:25):
have.
What are you an athlete?
You always want to have thecoaches, or sometimes the
competitors, that push youfurther and help you uncover, as
you mentioned, your strengthsor limitations.
But it's equally important, ifnot more, in business when
you're trying to grow like whois your team and the support
system?
And I've seen kind of manydifferences, even for me
(36:48):
personally, as I reflect throughthe career that I've had
actually it's in tennis or nowbusiness and technology what are
some of the key things youwould want to suggest?
People and how to choose theright Team or be part of the
support system, because I thinkthat's also learning as I'm
growing and Realizing her.
(37:09):
Maybe this team wasn't theright fit and I sort of learn
through those experiences.
But as you obviously have somuch more experience, is there
something specific now, as youknow yourself, that you really
mindful about who the team is tohelp you become even better the
people that you need around you.
John (37:29):
Yeah, okay.
So first of all, the peoplearound you, Especially the
people who are in leadershippositions.
I must admit that I've learneda lot About what to do from them
, and then there are many othersthat I learned what not to do,
(37:52):
and I think the recognition ofthe difference between what's
good and what's not so good,because if you do things over
and over and repeat them, theybecome habits.
So it's really important tounderstand with the people that
surround you, especially theones that influence you from the
top, is the.
The moral compass north, is the, are the ethics north?
(38:15):
You know, always keep yourcompass north and Recognize the
good things and then, when it'sthe other way, recognize the not
so good things and avoidrepeating them.
And I think that's been reallyimportant Because sometimes just
the day-to-day activities Withpressure, if people handle
(38:37):
pressure different ways and it'scoming from above you, it's
easy to just Pass that down,even if it's destructive.
So if you learn how to filterout the bad and just Reinforce
the good, those to me are themost important things.
(39:01):
Mm-hmm.
Klara (39:04):
There is actually a special example that's coming to
mind and I want to call out foreveryone, because it was just
so powerful.
I think you and I had metseveral years back.
You came to our house for acoffee.
I've actually realized I'verecently went through maybe not
so good experience.
You said to me maybe it waslike one sentence.
(39:27):
It was like you got to move on,take the learning and move on,
which is literally what tennisplayers do too.
You can't be stuck on your loss.
You got to realize look, I lostto your semi-final example.
What do I learn from that andhow do I adjust my strategy?
And it was actually so powerfullike it made me realize oh my
(39:47):
god, why am I dwelling on this?
This is such a good learningand sometimes you learn from the
bad things even more Because,as you mentioned, it allows you
to define what you don't want tobe and what you don't want to
do.
How do you balance that youlike?
Looking back at your career,have you learned more from the
(40:08):
bad things that happened to youor the good things?
John (40:11):
That's a tricky one, because we have a defense
mechanism where we try toremember only the good things
and forget the bad.
But I would say it's probablyimportant to do both Recognize
the really good things and stillremember the lessons from the
(40:33):
bad, because then, if you don't,you're prone to repeat them,
and even you know when thingsget really tough they may let
them creep back in.
So I would say that balance iskey.
Don't ever forget the bad ones,even though it's painful to
remember them, and you know whenyou need a booth, tell yourself
(40:59):
well, I did overcome them andhere are the good things that
happened.
As a result, you're your ownbest cheerleader in life.
Sometimes you're your onlycheerleader in life, and that's
just got to be good enough.
Klara (41:17):
On that note, I do three things, or maybe top three that
where some of the key learningsand it can be like good example,
which you mentioned, some ofthe great leaders you have had
or bad example that reallyhelped you understand look, this
is what I don't want to be, andhow did you kind of pivot
(41:37):
towards the leader that you wantto be?
John (41:42):
So this transcends business and personal.
I think recognizing the wordsmatter Anytime.
I found myself in a situationwhere I let you know a negative
emotion guide any engagement,anger, you know, pressure.
It's hard to take that back.
(42:04):
The consequences of lettingthat happen can last a very long
time.
So we all can probably think oftimes in life where should I
said that, shouldn't I done that, and it could have been hurtful
to people, just not necessary.
What's the point right?
(42:26):
So always positive reinforcement, even though you're addressing
a negative situation withsomebody, leaves them better
than putting them in a bad placeor putting them down or making
them feel and you knowinsufficient or inferior Like
everyone else.
I have to admit that's happened.
So I would just go back in lifeif I could just undo those.
(42:50):
Well, maybe I wouldn't havelearned from them, but that's
what I've learned.
Don't let that guide yourbehavior.
Secondly, if you trust, makesure there's a foundation for
the trust, because the peoplewho you think are closest to you
are the ones that potentiallycould do the most harm if you
(43:12):
let them.
So trust has to be earned, notjust given.
And I think the last but notleast, enjoy it.
It goes by really quick andwe're all just passing through.
None of these things.
(43:32):
If you love them, we'll neverlove you back.
None of these jobs Right themoney won't love you back.
It's what you do with it.
So If you end up in your lifedoing what you love and call it
(43:52):
work, that's the best possiblescenario.
Klara (43:57):
I do love all of those things you shared.
Maybe just to bring up aspecific example and you know,
with the personally thank you,it meant so much to me early on
in my career to have a leaderlike you being present, and
you've always been away in adifferent office but I've always
felt that if I needed to talkto you you were accessible and
(44:21):
actually your style ofleadership.
Also, when you came visitedCalifornia or where in the
office that I was at, you alwaysmade time to catch up, whether
it was just for coffee, eventhough you've always had
business schedule and obviouslymeetings and other purpose, and
so that alone early on in mycareer like having a leader like
(44:42):
you create the time meant somuch.
So I'm very grateful for that.
You know, maybe not everybodyhas that type of leader and
opportunity and it had like ahuge influence for me and
motivation early on to like, ok,joe knows about me, I'd better
do a good job and I wanted to bemy best because I knew in some
(45:03):
shape or form you knew of me andobviously probably were aware
of the results I'm creating ornot creating and I want to be my
best leader and I want to be mybest leader.
I think I'm on your leadership.
I feel like even reflecting onmy career and again having you
as a first sort of big.
I almost feel there is a changein the style of leadership and
(45:25):
obviously you've been in thisindustry way longer.
How do you reflect onleadership when you were
starting and do you see anychanges of the leaders now and
how they behave, or anydifferences and trends?
John (45:40):
I think the world has changed a lot.
I mean, it used to be that weall gathered in a place, right,
we had to work to a location,and then we all spent a lot of
time together and communicationwas much more personal.
You know, nonverbalcommunication is supposed to be
(46:00):
really important, so all of thathas kind of changed post-COVID.
A lot of meetings like this aredifferent than meetings face to
face, so I think we're allgoing to be somewhat having to
adjust to our environment.
But you know, when it getsright down to it, the core
(46:21):
always remains the people, notso much what surrounds them but
what's inside them.
So, thankfully, that remains thesame.
You just need to find a way tofind what's inside people even
though you're not there withthem.
So now that's what you do, likewith these podcasts, you dig a
little deeper than a traditionalZoom call, right, and that's
(46:42):
much appreciated, clara.
So I would say the only thingyou owe me now is a tennis
lesson you got to get me so Ican beat that guy again, instead
of spending 90 minutes in oneset.
Klara (46:56):
Of course You're welcome anytime in our home in Texas.
We'll make sure we serve yougood, nutritious food.
We got a grass-fed meat, we'llget you protein going and we can
get you even a whole tennis capif you want.
John, we can prepare to makesure you're in touch.
John (47:14):
I'm not too far from you in my new office location in
Houston, so when I get downthere I'll be more than happy to
take the drive over.
Klara (47:22):
Excellent, you can show me your swim workouts too, so
it's a trade-off.
We have a good pool so we cango do some laps there.
John (47:30):
I'll bring my short flippers.
Klara (47:33):
You have transitioned, as you mentioned, through telecom,
to a different industry.
Now I know you're focusing alot on gen, ai, Smart,
intelligent data and information.
What are you most excited aboutas you move and transition from
your past industries to thisone, and how do you look at the
(47:53):
future opportunities ahead?
John (47:55):
So the generative AI we've been incubating two companies
and we're at the very tail endof that and that looks like
we'll be successful there withthe exits.
My latest venture is in clean,eco-friendly technology that
improves the environment.
So I think my swan song will behelping to sustain the planet
(48:21):
and make it a viable place Nowthat I know I'm going to be a
grandfather for the first time.
So I'm actually contributing tothe health and well-being of my
lineage as we move forward bydoing this green tech power
company.
So that's exciting.
Congratulations, just kind ofgiving back.
Yes, congratulations.
Klara (48:43):
And anything you want to leave for people as 2024 is here
.
Obviously, there's a lot ofunrest in the world, people
worried about the current wars,even the status of the economy,
any trouble, mind things thatyou would want to inspire people
to be doing more for yourself.
John (49:00):
What I use myself is can get really caught up in a lot of
negativity that's communicatedmany different mediums.
Again, take the information youneed before you make decisions,
but don't let the informationprevent you or scare you from
doing things.
I've always had this no, nofear, but be respectful of
(49:26):
danger, and there are a lot ofdangerous things out there that
could get in your way that youprobably, if you focused on it,
would get in your way.
Focus on the positive, thethings you can control and add
value.
That's it, simple.
Klara (49:41):
Like a tennis player, you got to know what's in your
control and you can only focuson your strategy and the tennis
ball when it's on your side ofthe court and what you do with
it.
Yeah, what color is the writingon the?
John (49:54):
board as long as you can figure that out.
You know you're doing the rightthing, right.
Klara (50:00):
Yes, speak about the focus that you have developed.
That was always the number onetrick, mike Ochi, to tell me if
your game is not going good.
You got to focus on the balland try to see it as close and
as good as what's written on it.
So that's how you know you'repaying attention on what's most
important.
Thank you very much, john.
(50:21):
Anyone who wants to reach outto you I know you're a busy man
you do have a LinkedIn profile.
I will add it, with yourpermission, to the episode notes
if anybody wants to connect.
Any other best way to reach youor stay in touch.
John (50:35):
No, that's perfect.
I look forward, though, toconnecting with you and playing
a little tennis, and even doinga few laps.
Klara (50:42):
Excellent, I did too.
I'll be expecting you.
If you enjoyed this episode.
I want to ask you to please dotwo things that would help me
greatly.
One, please consider leaving areview on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify or any other podcastingplatform that you use to listen
to this episode.
Two, please share this podcastwith a friend who you believe
(51:03):
might enjoy it as well.
It is a great way to remindsomeone you care about them by
sharing a conversation theymight be interested in.
Thank you for listening.
Host
Klara Jagosova
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