77. George Mulhern︱Game, Set, Lead: Winning Strategies for Tennis, Tech, and Business Leadership

Episode Transcript
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George (00:00):
There were a number of things that I learned through

(00:02):
tennis that I think I'vepracticed them better in
business than I did in tennis.
Otherwise I would have been aprofessional tennis player,
probably for a career.
But the things that reallystuck with me I'll go back very,
very early on, when I wasplaying in college, I was having
a hard time.
I sat down with the coach.
I said, geez, I'm losingmatches, I should be winning.

(00:24):
What am I doing?
And my coach in college was aguy named Butch Krikorian and he
was I think of him now as kindof Yoda.
He just looked at me and saidyou have to decide.
I said what do you mean?
I have to decide, you have todecide you're going to win, and
then you have to commit to whatit's going to take to do that.
That, I think, think, along withsome of those other things, is

(00:44):
what's your goal, what do youwant to achieve, and then what's
it going to take to do that?
It just doesn't happen byaccident.
You have to put the work in.
The easy thing to learn whenyou're playing tennis is not to
give up when you're behind.
The harder thing in my book wasnot to let up when you're ahead
or not to start thinking aboutI'm going to win this match and
then all of a sudden your wholegame falls apart or you start

(01:05):
playing it too safe because youjust want to get to the end of
that and you have to be willingto take some risk.
And it's the same in businessyou can be a leader in your
market and as soon as you letyour guard down or get
complacent, someone's going tozoom right past you, and that, I
think, has been reallyimportant.
It's one of the values we'veput in place at Cradlepoint was

(01:28):
stay humble and hungry or youwill be.
And the humble part is you'vegot to be learning all the time,
but the hungry part is you haveto put those learnings into
action and you can't let downand you have to be getting
better every day.
And that definitely came out oftennis for me, because
everybody else is getting betterevery day.

Klara (01:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the
Grand Slam Journey podcast,where we discuss various things
related to the Grand Slamjourney of our lives Sports,
life after sports, lessons wehave learned from our athletic
endeavors and how we apply themin the next chapter of our lives
, growing our skills andleadership in whatever we decide

(02:08):
to put our minds into.
For my guests today, areas ofbusiness and technology, my
today's conversation is withGeorge Mulhern.
We discuss his Grand Slamjourney from being a competitive
tennis player to a tremendouscareer in corporate America,
from General Electric and thenworking in several leadership

(02:32):
and executive positions atHewlett Packard, being a part of
a VC for over three years andmost recently, being the CEO of
Cradlepoint.
Over the last 10 years, underGeorge's leadership, they have
raised $160 million in venturecapital, grew from 70 employees

(02:53):
to over 1,000, and in Novemberof 2020, they were acquired by
Ericsson for $1.1 billion.
It has been such a pleasuretalking to George about his
experiences.
This episode is packed withinsights and I hope you all will
enjoy listening to it as muchas I enjoyed producing it.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with someone you

(03:16):
believe may enjoy it as well.
Consider leaving a review onApple Podcasts or Spotify, and
don't forget to subscribe so youdon't miss the next episode.
This conversation is alsoavailable in video on the Grand
Slam Journey YouTube channel.
This is your host, klaraYegoshova.
Thank you for tuning in, andnow I bring you George Mulhern.

(03:39):
George, thank you for acceptingmy invitation to be a guest on
the Grand Slam Journey podcast.
So great to have you.
How are you?

George (03:47):
I'm doing great, clara, and thanks for the invite.

Klara (03:49):
Of course, I've been looking forward to this for so
long.
I'm so glad that our mutualconnection, peter, actually
tagged me on one of your postswhere you talk about your tennis
experience, and so I'm reallythrilled to dive into your Grand
Slam journey of life, fromtennis to business and
technology leadership, all theway to the pinnacle of

(04:12):
corporations.
Your LinkedIn most recentlystates retired CEO of
Cradlepoint and head of EricssonEnterprise Wireless Solutions.
So I'm curious to dive into allthat it entails and what's
ahead for you, because, based onsome of our past conversations,
you've obviously had abeautiful career and I'm curious

(04:33):
to learn more.
But from my view, if I can havean opinion, you have much more
left in the tank and the wisdomthat you have acquired that can
be beneficial for manyindustries and corporations.
So I'm curious where thisjourney takes us.
But before we dive into allthese topics, I want to give you
an opportunity to introduceyourself.

(04:54):
Anything you want listeners toknow about you and you want to
add.

George (04:59):
I've had, I would say, a pretty long career in
technology certainly, but maybestart with I'm married.
I've got four kids, two of longcareer in technology certainly,
but maybe start with I'mmarried.
I've got four kids, two of themstill in college, so I'm
working to get them out into thereal world.
And those are two boys still incollege and then two daughters
that are out and about.
My younger daughter had a D1tennis scholarship herself and

(05:19):
played at Colorado State, andnow my youngest son is playing
tennis for Whitworth.
So there's a little tennisstill in the blood.
But I could walk you through alittle bit of my career
progression, but it's notterribly exciting.
I thought I'd play tennis for aliving for a little while until
I tried to play tennis for aliving and found out that was

(05:40):
going to be a lot harder than Ithought.
And then I taught at a kind ofa swanky tennis club in Los
Altos Hills, northern California, for about a year and got
exceptionally bored doing that.
It was just not for me, and soI jumped into a sales role with
General Electric and then laterhired on with Hewlett Packard,

(06:02):
and I spent 20 years at HP,which was a great experience and
a great part of my career Threeyears in venture capital and
Cradlepoint was one of ourinvestments Hit some hard times
and I went over and took overthe CEO role at Cradlepoint and
then, in 2020, we were acquiredby Ericsson and I became an

(06:22):
Ericsson employee and then, likeyou said, just recently retired
.
I'm still an advisor kind of arole with Erickson for a little
while longer, but that's kind ofthe path.
It was actually a lot morewindy than that in reality, but
that's the short story.

Klara (06:38):
Thank you for highlighting it and I certainly
had many of those points on mylist and look forward diving
into each of your progressionsand changes as you grew your
career.
But I do want to start all theway back.
I have international guests andone of the things I'm always
curious about what theirupbringing look like and what

(06:59):
led them to the first fashion.
So it seems like tennis was oneof the things you clinged on
early on and you enjoyed, andseems like you've actually been
successful inspiring your nextgeneration to play tennis as
well.
So I'm curious if you couldshare a little bit more about
that, how you uncovered thattennis is the sport for you and

(07:20):
what attracted you to it.

George (07:21):
It's kind of funny because I started relatively
late for a tennis player.
I really started playing tennisin high school, but I just fell
in love with the sport.
I went into high schoolthinking I was going to play
football I've always been a bitof an athlete but realized when
I was 5'3 tall and 103 pounds Iwas probably not the ideal

(07:43):
candidate for football and Iswitched over at that point just
for fun, to play tennis.
But I fell in love with thegame and then I just couldn't
play enough.
It was something where Iconstantly saw myself improving
and that got me more motivatedto do it and then eventually in
high school set a goal that Iwanted to get a scholarship to
play tennis in college collegeand started working towards that

(08:05):
.
I also, because I was playingso much, I left high school at
6'4", so in one year I grew 12inches, which put a little bit
of strain on the joints thatI've been dealing with ever
since in a lot of ways.

Klara (08:20):
Yeah, I remember actually a lot, even from my experience
reflecting on the childhood.
Yeah, I remember actually a lot,even from my experience
reflecting on the childhood.
Obviously, being a girl, youcan play with boys up until
maybe the 13, 14 years old and,depending when they hit the
growth spurt and then the boyswe had in our club within one
year they typically grow 15, 20centimeters and gain their

(08:41):
manhood and just at that pointit's a completely different game
.
So I still remember those daysand how hard it is to balance
coordination and how much youactually practice and put in the
work, because joints duringthat growth time and protecting
joints is very difficult.
But going back all the way tobeginning, I find it sometimes

(09:04):
really hard for people todescribe why they enjoy the
sport they do, because it's afeeling and passion that
sometimes it's hard to put inwords and you mentioned this
progression and improvement thatI think many athletes in
general are driven to if youdecide to do that sport
seriously.
Was there anything else thatyou can pinpoint that you really

(09:27):
enjoyed about the sport andattracted you to it?

George (09:30):
I think back to that time.
That was kind of in the mid-70sand tennis was really popular
then.
So I was watching folks likeRod Laver and people like that
on television and that certainlyhelped kind of pique my
interest.
But it really was.
It was a sport that you didn'tneed to get 11 people on each
side to play like you do withfootball and my brother played

(09:50):
as well, so we would and seeingkind of achievement of those
various steps.
The more you do that, the moremotivated you get and the more

(10:11):
you want to take that next step.
And I'm sure you found this,clara.
There's always something towork on in tennis and in most
things right.
So it was never boring, andthat is maybe one of my
downfalls I get bored kind ofeasy if I get into too much of a
routine.
So there was always somethingto be learning and something to

(10:33):
be trying to master in thatsport Mostly my own mind thing
on its own.

Klara (10:41):
That's completely separate from, obviously, all
the physical skills.
I agree, but as I reflect onthe game, I have the same,
because it's so important tohave this variety and you need
to practice anything fromendurance because you're on the
court running constantly for oneand a half to maybe three hours
, depending how long the matchis, but you need speed, because

(11:04):
you need to get to the pointsreally quickly and agility, and
you need strength, but you needa fast arm.
So there's always whether it'sobviously technical components
of tennis that there's alwaysroom for improvement, as you
mentioned, whether it's whereyour toe is pointing, to how
you're hitting the ball, whereyou're hitting it, to obviously,

(11:25):
all the physical aspects andcomponents of it.
So, yes, the variety.
It seems like with tennisyou're never bored and there's
just so many different thingsyou can practice.

George (11:35):
That's such a good point too on the, because I think a
lot of people think if they'regoing to work on their tennis
game, they need to improve theirtennis strokes.
But it's footwork, it's allkinds of different things, and
that's true Even I was justhaving this conversation with
somebody at work the other daythat it's not just about the
technology.
There's all kinds of ways toinnovate, to improve, to do

(11:57):
things better for the customeroutside of just a better product
, and so thinking moreholistically about how to make
those improvements I think isreally important.

Klara (12:07):
Yeah, and that again compares the tennis aspect and
what you mentioned.
You're easily bored, which Iactually have, that too.
For that reason I gravitate tocomplex deals or complex sales.
If somebody gives me too easyof a path forward, I typically
choose the harder one, just forthe sake of gathering skills,

(12:29):
which maybe sometimes it's notthe most strategic but it's more
enjoyable for me.
And so, just going back to yourupbringing and tying on that,
it obviously seems like you hadphysical skills and ability to
learn things quite quickly,because starting in high school
and then being able to get D1college scholarship, especially
for men, that's really difficultbecause most of the

(12:51):
scholarships in schools arededicated to kind of the big
sports such as what youmentioned, the football right.
We women get more scholarshipsin tennis just because we don't
have the big sports likefootball or hockey, perhaps that
men typically play, but tennisfor men is just much harder.
So how do you look at theprogression that you have had

(13:12):
from that and what helped youimprove to then be able to play
college level?

George (13:18):
I had an instructor before going to college, taking
tennis lessons, you know, when Iwas in high school, and he said
a few things that made a lot ofsense to me, and one was you
know, the great players practiceas hard as they play their
matches, and that was reallycertainly important.
The other thing he kind oftaught me was you need to play

(13:39):
every point like it's matchpoint.
So some of those things that Ireally took to heart.
I was lucky that I had mybrother, who's about 18 months
younger than me, who was playingright at the same time is also
a very good athlete.
He wound up playing in collegeas well, and so I always had a
hitting partner, which wasreally important too.

Klara (14:00):
And I like especially the two that you mentioned.
Those were also things that mycoaches used to drill at me the
effort that you put into everysingle point, because you never
know which one could be the onethat makes or breaks the game,
because of just even the mentaltoughness that you need to have.
So that effort that you almosttrain the mindset it's not even,

(14:21):
I guess, playing like that, buthaving that mindset and
training the mind that everysingle point counts.
And that translates to what youeven mentioned earlier, like
business technology, anythingelse afterwards, the effort that
you used to putting into thingsand the importance of practice
and perfecting your skills.
To me that also translates.

(14:42):
For example, if I'm givingpresentations to somebody like
you who would be a CEO, aboutnew, innovative ideas, what's
the amount of work I put in ongetting to know them, refining
the story, what may be relevantto them?
So I go through a great deal ofpractice to actually refine and
be on point to ensure that themessage resonates.

(15:05):
So that's just one example.
But I'm curious how has maybespecific those two skills or
anything else you want to addthat really resonated with you
from those years then translatedto your later success?

George (15:16):
I mean there were a number of things I learned
through tennis that I think I'vepracticed them better in
business than I did in tennis.
Otherwise I would have been aprofessional tennis player,
probably for a career.
But you know the things thatreally stuck with me.
Well, I'll go back very, veryearly on, when I was playing in

(15:38):
college.
I was having a hard time.
I sat down with the coach.
I said, geez, you know, I'mhaving a hard one, I'm losing
matches.
I should be winning.
What am I doing?
And my coach in college was aguy named Butch Krikorian and he
was I think of him now as kindof Yoda, but he just looked at
me.
He said you have to decide.
And I said what do you mean?
I have to decide, you have todecide you're going to win, and

(16:00):
then you have to commit to whatit's going to take to do that.
That I think, along with someof those other things, is what's
your goal?
What do you want to achieve,and then what's it going to take
to do that?
It just doesn't happen byaccident.
You have to put the work in.
There's a whole bunch of thingsI learned from tennis that I've
carried over, and you know this,claire the easy thing to learn

(16:24):
when you're playing tennis isnot to give up when you're
behind.
The harder thing in my book wasnot to let up when you're ahead
or not to start thinking aboutI'm going to win this match and
then all of a sudden your wholegame falls apart or you start
playing it too safe because youjust want to get to the end of
that and you have to be willingto take some risk.

(16:46):
And it's the same in businessthat you can be a leader in your
market and as soon as you kindof let your guard down or get
complacent, someone's going tozoom right past you and that, I
think, has been really important.
To think for me and it's one ofthe values we put in place at
Greater Point was stay humbleand hungry where you will be.

(17:06):
And the humble part is you'vegot to be learning all the time,
you've got to be trying tounderstand what your customers
want and all that.
But the hungry part is you haveto put those learnings into
action and you can't let downand you have to be getting
better every day.
Action, and you can't let down,and you have to be getting

(17:27):
better every day.
And that definitely came out oftennis for me, because
everybody else is getting betterevery day.

Klara (17:31):
Yes, I love that and love what you mentioned.
Actually, if I can reminisce ona specific experience I've had,
that was so painful for me, myfreshman year I actually
qualified for nationals and Iwas playing second round against
a girl who ended up going tothe finals of the nationals.

(17:51):
She lost, I think in the thirdset in the finals and I remember
the match still like it wasyesterday.
I was set up for love, I wasserving and 30 left and I had
this slight thought I was like,oh my god, if I win this next
two points, it's gonna be fiveleft and I can really win the

(18:14):
match.
I'm very close and so at thatmoment, being a tennis player,
you're laughing.
So I know you can probablyimagine what happened next.
I got super tight, startedplaying defensive and doubting
myself and lost in the third set.
It was one of the hardestmatches I have ever lost.
I pity my coach for being there, because after that I had to go

(18:37):
back to the track stadium and Iprobably sprinted three or four
laps to get the negative energyout of me and I wasn't able to
talk to anybody for probably aweek.
I always say if I knew how totake losses better.
I could have been a betterathlete.
That's one of the things.
But on that note, george, arethere any moments it seems that

(18:59):
you highlighted a few from yourtennis career where you took in
some of those lessons and thenyou mentioned you're actually
applying them in your businessand technology world almost
better and I love the humble andhungry.
I think especially the hungryone seems to be one from my
observations that CEOs orleaders who have been athletes

(19:21):
understand a bit better fromthat mindset perspective.
But anything else as youreflect you want to share.

George (19:27):
It's funny because I had an experience just like the one
you just described, which Istill sometimes think back on
and go, oh my God, how did Iblow that match?
But anyway, the other is one ofthe things you have to learn in
tennis right is to try tocontrol your emotions, stay calm
and not let yourself get toofar ahead, too far behind, too
worried, whatever, and you don'twant your opponent to see that

(19:52):
you're losing it mentally either.
And that is something that I'vetried to carry forward in
business as well is justproviding some calm.
You know, if you're hitting acrisis in business and you're
the leader of that organizationand you're running around like
your hair is on fire, everybodyin that organization is going to

(20:12):
be running around like theirhair is on fire and it's really
your job to try to kind ofabsorb that fear and anxiety
that's coming from theorganization.
But share some confidence andconfidence that and we've always
, we always say this right, it'sjust business.

(20:33):
For one thing, if we screw up,if we make a mistake, we'll take
a couple step back and and takeanother run at it.
There there's always anopportunity to you know, maybe
not always, but usually anopportunity to you know, maybe
not always, but usually anopportunity to right a wrong and
take another run at it.
And so that ability to showsome confidence and calmness in

(20:54):
a crisis, even though there aremany times when my stomach was
churning like crazy or I wasstaring at the ceiling all night
.
But that doesn't do any goodfor the organization, just like
it gave your competitor anadvantage when you're playing
tennis.

Klara (21:12):
Yeah, I love that example and actually we talked about a
little bit in my episode withJeanette, who I believe,
practices this skill very wellas well.
You may know she's the head ofEricsson Canada.
Are there specific things ortips, george, that help you with
staying grounded in thosesituations or work for maybe

(21:33):
just you personally?
You mentioned you stayed upstaring at the wall, which also
doesn't help, but are therethings, as you grew from your
career, that help you have thisgrounded leadership and be able
to, as you mentioned, absorb thestress but not push it on
others and really be the kind oflevel-headed leader that you

(21:57):
needed to be in those situations?

George (21:59):
Probably the most important thing in my mind is to
build a great team that you'reworking with.
Important thing in my mind isto build a great team that
you're working with, and youknow over the years you find and
I have a lot of years under mybelt, that just what I said that
there are very few mistakesthat are unrecoverable.
And you kind of combine thatwith you have to be willing to

(22:22):
take some risk at times ifyou're really going to advance
the ball, and those two thingshelp me at least to stay
balanced.
And then having a team that youreally trust, that you respect,
and hopefully they trust andrespect you as well.
A lot of times a crisis bringsa team together stronger.

(22:43):
You exit it stronger if you'renot running around like your
hair is on fire and you seethere is a path.
So those are some of the keythings I think.

Klara (22:54):
I love it, and that for me, connects to some of the
times that you have had atCradle Point, and I'll save them
for a little bit later.
But going maybe back to yourtennis career, it seems like you
have had a somewhat successfulcollege tennis career.
You tried playing the touractually for a while to become
professional, then became coachwhich you found boring, as you

(23:18):
mentioned and transitioned tobusiness and technology so
anything else from that timeperiod you want to highlight
that really stood out and howdid you decide you know this
coaching thing isn't for me.
I'm going to quit and I need tofind a new career, because
that's always a tough time foranyone Saying no to the sport
that you've dedicated so manyhours and years of practice,

(23:42):
including the support systemthat obviously your family and
coaches created around you, butputting your energy to new
things and opening new doorswhat has that been like?

George (23:52):
I really.
I played only a half a dozentournaments on the at that time.
It was the American Express wasthe sponsor of the tour, and it
was kind of like the Challengertour today.
But I didn't have a sponsor.
I didn't have much money.
I was sleeping on someone'scouch or asking for housing

(24:12):
wherever I went and staying withsome stranger, and I think I
mentioned it before, I'm a bitof an introvert, so there was a
lot of alone time as well.
I wasn't winning and I justdidn't.
I did not see a long-term pathfor myself.
I didn't have enough passion atthat point to say, well, I'm
going to just keep doing thisfor a few years to make it.

(24:35):
The reason I got bored at thecountry club teaching was I
wasn't really coaching aspiringplayers.
I was teaching tennis to peoplethat came in once a week for a
half hour lesson and then didn'tpractice at all.
So I'd see them the next weekand they were doing exactly the
same thing.
They just wanted to take tennislessons and that got kind of

(24:57):
tiring.
So the easy jump for me was toyou make a lot of connections
doing that.
And so I had somebody that said, well, hey, general Electric's
looking for some youngsalespeople and it was a
consumer products side of itbatteries, lighting, stuff like
that and so I went and gave thata try and I spent a few years

(25:17):
there and that was reallyvaluable for me in my career.
But it's also it's notsomething I wanted to do long
term.
Growing up in the Bay Area, Ijust saw this technology
explosion going on and I reallywanted to get into tech, and so
I eventually got intoHewlett-Packard from there.

Klara (25:38):
Where you have had an impressive career alone for over
20 years in various differentpositions.
So when you reflect that, andeven your beginning through
business, it's actually funnyenough.
I see a lot of similaritiesfrom my career.
I have no clue what I want todo beyond tennis.
It was through TennisConnection that I landed my
first role in telecom retail andthen the whole journey evolved

(26:01):
that I couldn't even imaginewhere my career would go, but
what are some of the keydeciding moments?
As you look back then and yourbeautiful progressions that
reassured you, this is reallyinteresting.
I could be good at it andcontinue to build your
progression through those stepsand journey.

George (26:22):
A bit of my career was hey, a door opened, I'm going to
go through it and see whathappens.
That's certainly how I wound upin sales.
There was no grand plan there,but it taught me a lot about
myself.
And that's again where I thinka lot of people don't realize
how hard sales is as a job.
It takes a lot If you're goingto be a great salesperson.
How hard sales is as a job.
It takes a lot If you're goingto be a great salesperson.

(26:44):
It takes disciplines, it takesperseverance, it takes being
able to hear no all the time,and so I have a real
appreciation for the salesfunction as a result of that.
But General Electric at the timewas very tops down hierarchical
kind of company and when I wentto Hewlett Packard, my first
job there was my boss wanted meto open a distribution channel

(27:06):
for this line of products and Iremember going in I sat down and
said well, how do you want meto do that?
And then he said I don't know.
That's why I hired you.
You go figure it out.
And that was such a liberatingkind of moment for me that, okay
, they put the trust in me andthat was something I think

(27:26):
Hewlett Packard was, from aculture standpoint, a lot of
trust and respect in theindividuals in the organization,
and that was really motivatingfor me and that also kind of
formed a lot of how I thinkabout leadership from my
experience there in those earlydays at Hewlett Packard as well.
People with initiative don'twant to be told what to do.

(27:47):
Right, they want to be toldgosh, we need to make this
happen.
Can you help figure out how todo that?
And if you just keep tellingpeople what to do all the time,
eventually they just say I'llwait until he tells me what to
do.

Klara (28:01):
I agree.
I think even in sales, actuallynobody likes to be told what to
do.
So when I think about customersand the best way to approach it
, I always think about what arethe best questions.
I could ask them to think aboutthings from a different
perspective, because if you justcome in, well, this technology
can help you solve this and this.
They probably have 50 otherpeople that are coming through
that door saying the same thingor different thing and trying to

(28:24):
create their value proposition.
So how do you help them come upto the right conclusion that's
right for them to solve thechallenges and problems that
they have?
And I do love you mentioningkind of the motivation, because
one of the things even workingat Apple that obviously Steve
Jobs and the leadership therehas been hire great people who

(28:45):
have passion for what they doand let them figure out how
things should be done instead oftelling somebody how to do
things.
I think they're one of thecompanies that are kind of known
for this type of mindset.

George (28:57):
At least for me, it's a much more enjoyable environment
when you're given the freedom tofigure out how to do some
things, as opposed to you know,here's a set of instructions, go
do it.
That gets boring too.

Klara (29:11):
Yes, are there specific leaders, george, that you want
to call out?
It seems like you've mentionedyou were positively influenced
by the culture and some of theleaders to be able to have your
own initiative, think throughproblems and create something
from scratch.
So to me, what really standsout?
That creativity andadaptability and you mentioned

(29:34):
discipline, obviously putting inthe work and effort to build
the channel.
That takes a lot of time andthinking, but anyone
specifically that you think ofreally influenced your next
steps and career and how youbuild your teams.

George (29:50):
There's probably a lot of them, a lot of leaders.
If I start mentioning names Iknow I'll forget some really
important ones, but a lot of it.
For me, my kind of approach toleadership was formed being a
part of in those early days atHewlett Packard, because it was
things like focus on thecustomer, trust and respect for

(30:12):
the individual make acontribution, but also the
business has to do well.
One of the most importantthings to create a great culture
is you're winning.
I mean that makes it a loteasier.
So there was a real focus onthe business.
You know one of the leaders thatI really looked up to when I

(30:33):
was at HP.
His name was Rick Beluso.
He was very high level there,then wound up CEO of Silicon
Graphics, president of Microsoft, done a lot in his career.
But he wound up joining ourboard at Cradlepoint and really
to this day kind of remains amentor for me, and his approach
to leadership I think was formedthrough those Hewlett Packard

(30:55):
values as well.
He actually wrote a book Ithink it was called Soft-Hearted
and Hard-Headed or somethinglike that.
I talk about this with most ofour leaders, that you have to
make decisions based on what'sbest for the business first,
what's best for your team secondand what's best for you last,
and if you keep it in that order, things tend to go well, and if
the business fails, everybody'sin trouble.

(31:16):
If your team starts seeing youoptimize yourself over the team
and the business, then you're indeep trouble.
So you know some of thosesimple things that really, I
think, make a difference, that Ilearned along the way from a
lot of these folks.

Klara (31:31):
I love those three things in the order of importance.
I think sometimes, especiallyin these days, there's a
tendency where people mayperhaps think to reprioritize or
deprioritize the business.
But I think enterprises andcorporations, unless you're a
non-profit and I think I wouldargue, actually even in

(31:52):
non-profits there's importanceto have some sort of revenue
because you need to continue tokeep going.
The venture that needs to bethe North Star star and so being
clear about it and positioningit look, better our business
does, the better we all will be,because it creates more
opportunities for the wholeorganization to thrive, and

(32:13):
being clear about it.
I think it's really importantand I actually think we should,
as organizations, be speaking upabout it perhaps more.
And from what I've seen, evenactually the mass layoffs,
people have been bashing theorganizations, but really they
were a result of irresponsible,perhaps in many ways, behavior

(32:34):
that they perhaps hire manypeople that were needed in some
instances in the organizationsand for that reason the business
wasn't thriving to the degreethat it could have.
So the operational efficiencyand the theme that we have in
the recent years, I think it'sbeing driven probably quite a
bit by the lack ofresponsibility on understanding

(32:56):
and putting the business-mindedvalues first.
What are your thoughts on that,george?

George (33:14):
For a nonprofit.
Your ability to help people isgoing to be dependent on.
What are your thoughts on that?
George involved and all that,but the enterprise itself has to
survive if you're going toserve your customer, whether
it's philanthropic orrevenue-based.
But sometimes that is hard forpeople to understand.

Klara (33:35):
And so, reflecting on your career, maybe before we
jump to Cradlepoint, which Iwant to just focus on completely
separately you have had afantastic journey at HP, build
up all the way to being thesenior vice president of global
business unit and after that youactually decided, after 20 plus
years, to move to generalpartner at a VC company.

(33:59):
So maybe two ways to phrase myquestion.
Number one what are some of thekey skills you have guttered
throughout that journey that yousee prepared you for the next
jump of CEO?
And, in relation to that, arethere specific roles or
responsibilities throughoutthose years that you really had

(34:20):
to hone or came to?
Either actually you realizethis is natural for me, I'm
really good at it or perhapsskills that this is not as
natural for me and I need tolean in and practice my skills.
Perhaps same thing, like on thecourt there's a stroke that
kind of drags us down and youdon't want to kind of take down
your whole leadership style andyou need to maybe polish or work

(34:43):
a little bit harder on toreally internalize.

George (34:47):
That's also a pretty broad question.

Klara (34:51):
Take it whichever way you want.

George (34:53):
Okay, I essentially left HP because I think you find
this sometimes in very large,successful companies that you
start to get to a point where alot of the opportunities are in
the white spaces between thesebig business units and each
business unit is measured on aset of things that is maybe

(35:15):
different than that otherbusiness unit and so it gets
very difficult to go after someof that and I just started to
feel like it was taking such anenormous amount of energy to
move the company a millimeter.
I wasn't getting thatsatisfaction from it necessarily
anymore and I didn't decide tojust jump right into the venture

(35:37):
.
I just left HP and said, okay,I'm retiring from HP and then
did really nothing for well, notnothing, but I spent about 12
months or so doing some otherthings, did some angel investing
and then got connected to thisventure firm.
And when you talk about maybehow did that help prepare me for

(36:00):
going into the CEO role?
Because the venture firm wewere focused on seed and series
A very early stage companies andI'd say one of the biggest
differences moving from HP intoa cradle point or what I saw in
these startups, is, you know, ina large company you typically

(36:21):
manage your global business unitthrough the income statement
right.
What's our revenue?
What's our income?
What's our OPEX?
In a small company, you run thebusiness based on the balance
sheet.
Did we collect enough money topay people this month?
Can we extend our time beforewe have to pay the other one?

(36:42):
How are we going to get theworking capital we need?
It's all about cash and some ofthose things.
So it's a little bit differentapproach that you need to take
and certainly see that withthose early stage startups,
You've got to be really frugalin the early days, because most
of the times when they fail,it's they run out of cash.

(37:04):
They run out of money.
Either they couldn't make ituntil the market took off, or
maybe they didn't have enoughtime to do a pivot they needed,
or whatever.
So that was certainly a keylearning for me going into that
role.
That definitely helped.
It also helped I had a greatCFO I worked with at Cradle

(37:24):
Point named Val Heusenfeld, whois brilliant, and she kind of
helped coach and train me on thebalance sheet also.

Klara (37:32):
So it seems like, at least from those days in the
venture capital really furtherintensified your business-minded
focus, because it seems likeyou've kind of built that, but
that understanding of people saycash is king, special in
business, and what also soundedto me like the timing I'd always
say timing in tennis.
Business in life is everything.

(37:53):
So, especially if you're asmall company, how do you time
the opportunity with the market?
Because you might be developingsomething that the market is
not prime and ready for.
So how do you either keep italive for the technology to
mature or introduce it right atthe right time to grow it?
Anything else you want to add,george?

George (38:13):
I mean, that's a key thing.
I can't tell you how many timeswe've said we've got to live to
fight another day.
Even at Cradlepoint right,there are some very dark, dark
days along the way, so that'scertainly important.
The other thing, though, itreally pointed out was just how
important a level of agility isin terms of being able to spot

(38:35):
one we're on the wrong path ortwo we're on the right path and
we need to double down, orsomething's changing and we need
to be able to react to it.
And uh, you know, in a bigcompany you have much more
resource at your disposal thingslike that.
That's not quite as important.
It probably should be.
I think you have a lot offeelings about why it's hard for

(39:00):
big companies to changesometimes, but that agility is
really critical when you're in asmaller company or when you're
in a market that's changingquickly.

Klara (39:12):
Love that.
So maybe on that note, kind ofreflecting on your cradle point
years when you were appointedthe role of the CEO, I'm curious
how that happened and throughhow that you actually touched on
earlier on the crisis and nowthat you had gone through Cradle
Point and despite of thatyou've been able to create a
fantastic business and grow from, I believe, at the beginning,

(39:34):
70 employees or so to over athousand and have raised several
times additional capital thatallowed you to grow through how
that credit point venture andkind of your journey.
So how do you reflect on that?
And even if you take us back,how did that jump to the CEO
happen and any sort of thecrisis that you want to
highlight you mentioned thatstrengthened you to really be

(39:56):
closer with the team at thatpoint.

George (39:59):
First of all, it's really hard to be prepared, I
think, to become a CEO.
I was running very large globalbusiness units and things like
that.
It was different.
You know, on day one on the jobI had asked the board if you
have to do a layoff, do itbefore I get there.
They didn't, so I had toannounce a layoff on the first
day.
Nobody really knew me.

(40:20):
It kind of put me in a hole tostart building trust out of.
That wasn't the way I wanted tostart.
You know, the company wasbasically out of money and we
had to raise and the agreement Ihad with the investors was can
you give us enough to getthrough 12 months to prove the
thesis of this, of this?

(40:46):
And you know, one of thereasons I went there was there
was a thesis in my mind too thatwhen you look around, there
were these two kind of hardfacts that I I really believe.
Still one anything that can bewireless will be wireless, and
trail point was doing wirelessnetworking using cellular
networks.
And I may think about it yourmobile phone, your laptop,
you're on Wi-Fi, your mouse iswireless, your AirPods are

(41:08):
wireless.
It's just simpler, it's easier.
Lots of reasons.
And the other piece waseverything is going to be
connected.
And so you know, between thosetwo things, I think there was
enough of a true, true marketopportunity.
I think there was enough of atrue, true market opportunity

(41:28):
that it made sense to go do it.
You know, when I first gotthere, I would send a nice
handwritten note to the salesfolks congratulations on making
your quota and we'd mail thecheck in the mail to them.
They thought it was a greattouch, but it was because we
needed to float, we had tocollect receivables so we'd have
money in the bank to pay them.
But we got through thatrelatively quickly because there

(41:50):
was a strong engineering team.
We didn't have much of ago-to-market and kind of built
that up.
And then I think some of this isa recency thing, claire,
because I was just talking tosomeone yesterday about this
who's looking at their later intheir career and looking at, gee
, what do I want to do?
One of the best things I thinkwe did was we had a good mix of

(42:13):
obviously young, hungry,entrepreneurial type people.
But we also brought in a fewfolks that were very experienced
.
They were no longer trying tobuild a resume, they just wanted
to share that experience andbuild a business, help build a
business, and that combinationwas very powerful from a team
standpoint.
That really helped contributeto the success as well.

(42:36):
We had no politics.
No, I want to get ahead, and todo that, I got to step on your
shoulders, thinking on top ofyou or any of that.
None, none of that washappening.
And when I think about probablythe two key values that have
stuck the most at cradle point,one was stay humble and hungry
or you will be.

(42:57):
And then the other was don'tpoint a finger, lend a hand.
And that came about.
I was talking to a firmwareengineer.
We had a cloud platform andfirmware and he just looked and
he said well, I can't, I can'tdo anything because I'm waiting
for the cloud guys, and I'malready done with my piece and I
thought, well, get your buttover there and help them right.

(43:18):
And that, I think, has turnedinto something that helped me.
Frankly, cradlepoint a specialplace.
You know what?
If anybody needed help,somebody will help you.
Reach out, you got a question,reach out, you need help on
something.
We've got each other's back.
That sense of teamwork made ahuge difference in the success

(43:39):
of the company.
I think that's my perspective.
Others may disagree with that.
I was telling my wife I wasgoing to do this podcast with
you, claire, and I said I don'tknow if I really have much to
share here.
And she said look, everybodyknows how to make guacamole.
This is your formula forguacamole.

(43:59):
Yeah, it worked for you.
If somebody gets something outof it, great.
If not, no big deal.
And I think that's probablytrue.
There were some things thatworked for me that may not work
for other people.
I mean, every leader isdifferent and you got to find
your path right.

Klara (44:15):
Yes, but I love your vision and, as I'm hearing your
story, there continues to bethis strain of obviously the
humble and hungry.
I have still some connections atcradle points.
I've reached out to a fewfriends and they conquered how
beautiful that motto is andreally resonated throughout your

(44:35):
leadership across the board andthe ability to actually get
some of these principles I guessmaybe the best way to call them
.
Also, don't point a finger andlend a hand, make a total
sentence Beautiful, but how doyou get it down throughout that
whole organization?
Because I've seen many leadersthat have some principles and

(44:58):
they say things.
So there's actually one thingthat well, are you really
practicing that?
Because people see if leaderhas principles and they don't
demonstrate it themselves, it'sreally hard for them to follow
something that the leaderhimself is not internalizing and
people don't see in action.
So I'm sure you actually reallyresonating with them deeply and

(45:20):
practicing them and peopleobviously, from my testimonies,
seeing that and really seeing itin you helped them to adopt
that mindset.
But any other tips that helpedyou, let the whole organization
and team know.
This is how we should beworking and this is the mindset
we should practice.

George (45:40):
Yeah, you said the most important one, which is, if I'm
saying it and I'm not doing it,then nobody else is going to
believe it.
And you know, the foundationfor all leadership is trust, and
that's built through throughauthenticity and and respect.
If it's not one of your values,you shouldn't even bring it up.

(46:00):
I mean, like you, I've been inorganizations where somebody
gave me a PowerPoint slide andsaid here's our shared values.
Stick it on your pegboard.
What do these mean?
You know, just put it on yourpegboard.
You know, when the leader comesthrough, I want to see values
on everybody's pegboard.
But that was not in fact.
I resisted doing that for quitea while, resisted doing that for

(46:26):
quite a while.
My belief was someone should beable to walk in the company and
feel the values of the company.
You shouldn't have to post themon a wall necessarily.
They should feel that teamwork,they should feel that desire to
serve the customer.
They should feel those things.
And part of the humble andhungry is low ego leadership.
And there's a quote I usesometimes to help me stay
centered on that and it camefrom my wife, karen, and it goes

(46:50):
like this you know it's notalways about you, so that kind
of grounding is important.
But one of the things we did dothat I thought was valuable was
when you take those values.
We had some team sessions wherewe'd say, okay, so what's above
the line behavior and what'sbelow the line behavior, right,

(47:11):
so okay, don't point a finger,lend a hand, what shows that
you're living that value andwhat behaviors say you're not?
And that was really valuablefor teams to kind of talk
through some of that.
And then the other thing isdon't point a finger at the hand
.
Sounds kind of pithy but it'salso kind of memorable and we

(47:32):
just talked about it a lot andtalked about on the onboarding.
I used to onboard sessions withall new employees.
I talked a lot about look, ifyou need help, reach out,
somebody will help you if youtry to make sure people
understood when they came intothe company and everybody did
that again and it wasn't just me, it was the leadership team all

(47:56):
believed in that and if they'remodeling it, then people also
model it.
That's my uh, probably toolimited a view on this, but I
think the biggest reasonsleaders fail, the two things
it's ego and insecurity, andthose two things I think have

(48:17):
cratered more leaders thananything else I've seen in my
career.
If you can't let other peopleget the credit for the great
work they're doing, if you needto be the most important person
in the room or on the stage allthe time some of those things
they just don't.
Build a culture of respectwhere everybody feels like you

(48:38):
know that thing we talked about,craig.
It takes every employee andtheir contribution for us to get
where we want to go.
Not one job is more importantthan another.
When you're providing a serviceto a customer, every link in
that chain is critical, and soevery employee's contribution
matters.

Klara (48:57):
I love that and love hearing everything you shared.
Obviously, the ego andinsecurity 100% resonate with
those and people can sense it, Ithink, quite quickly.
If you're even working forsomeone or even adjacent teams,
you recognize those two frompeople and that, I think,
quickly makes people to withdrawor kind of hold your boundaries

(49:22):
and then creates a big level ofpolitics which you pretty much
share.
That it was one of the thingsat Cradle Point, which is no
politics, which I would love towork in.
A company where there's nopolitics.
That sounds fantastic and,having the privilege to meet you
and speaking to your employees,I wish I had the opportunity to
work for you.
George, you truly seem like avery authentic and grounded

(49:44):
leader and obviouslybusiness-oriented.
So on that note, just goingback to Cradle Point, it seems
like you put a lot of attentionon building the right culture
and hiring the right team andthat's a lot where you grounded
yourself in to really scale andbuild the business.
But on the business side youdid mention Cradle Point is at

(50:08):
the beginning was very close torunning out of business.
You were 12 months away.
We're given a 12 months toprove your two hypothesis, which
are more true now, probably,than even before, and maybe now
people think, oh yeah, thatmakes sense, but in 2011, it
perhaps wasn't as well knownthat those two things would be

(50:30):
true or will be proven asreality.
So, looking at that, what aresome of the key points that
helped you turn the businessaround, to grow it to the growth
and profitability you have beenable to achieve?

George (50:44):
I'm going to start to sound redundant here, clara, but
one of the things I learnedearly in my career is the most
important competitive advantageyou can have is a team that is
motivated and wants to worktogether to win.
I'm not an engineer by nature,and that was my approach to

(51:04):
building this company.
It was create a culture wherepeople can do their absolute
best work, where they feel likethey're valued and recognized
for their contribution, wherethey trust their leadership,
where their leadership truststhem and they enjoy the people
they work with.
Then, yeah, you have a prettygood culture.
That was definitely important,one of the things I will call

(51:26):
out too.
So there were three founderswhen I went to the company and
only one of them stayed.
His name is Ryan Adamson, andone of them was probably a cause
of many of my sleepless nightswho left, but Ryan stayed.
And Ryan came to me at onepoint and said, look, I just

(51:48):
want to help build this company,I believe in it, I want to do
great things, and he was likethe spiritual leader for the
sales organization.
He jumped into that role, andso that was really helpful.
And then you know, one of thehardest things when you go into
a new organization is findingthe truth, especially in an
organization that's suffering ina crisis mode, because

(52:12):
everybody will tell you here'swhat's wrong and here's the
person responsible for what'swrong, and if you just listen to
me, it'll be okay, it's allwell-intentioned, but that is in
my experience.
I think what helped wasstarting with the customer.
First experience.
I think what helped was startingwith the customer first, so get
outside the four walls, starttalking to customers and

(52:33):
partners, to use that to helpgauge the feedback you're
getting.
And then I think one of the keythings that helped us as well
is we created a leadership teamwhere half of the team was
existing in the business andhalf the team came in from
outside, and I brought in theCFO, val Heusenfeld.
I've mentioned Just a brilliant, wonderful leader.

(52:55):
But we still had folks like DonBumgarner and Ken Hozek, who
knew the business inside and out, or Steve Wood was running R&D
at the time.
So it was a good combination ofexperience because we were
going to try to scale and that'sa challenge for small startups
too.
When you start to scale, a lotof things have to change.

(53:18):
So we had a good mix of thatkind of experience that helped
us, and we had good investors.

Klara (53:24):
Frankly, I love what you're mentioning also the mix
of internal versus externalpeople, because it seems like
you have a good understandingfrom the internal group of
what's happening, but kind ofexternal group that brings out
questions that I sometimes thinklike there could be some of the
simplest questions, but becausethere's a specific way of

(53:44):
operating, we don't ask themanymore, or you look at it from
this outside-in perspective.
So it seemed like it wouldallow for this good dialogue and
revisiting why things are donethe way they are done in
probably a collaborative wayfrom like, let me understand how
things are done now or why wedo them this way, and is there

(54:06):
perhaps a better way to thengrow or achieve the next step
that we need to achieve?
Is that accurate?
Anything else you want to add,george, that drove you to that
decision?

George (54:17):
You know, I looked at my job.
They're kind of in three bigbuckets opportunity, risk and
talent.
And so where are theopportunities and how many of
them can we take on right now?
And that kind of fed into therisk part of it, which was in
the very early days, we werelooking at a time horizon of the

(54:38):
quarter.
Right, are we going to getenough cash in the door to keep
going for the quarter?
We've got to invest in thoseareas that are going to deliver
that.
As we start to get more success,you can expand and say what are
we going to do a year from now?
And now they're talking aboutwhat are we going to do two
years from now or whatever.
But that risk profile keepingthe company funded, how much are

(55:02):
you investing in the futureversus keeping the lights on
today?
That's a constantly changingkind of a thing.
And then, on a talent talentside, it's finding great talent,
trying to motivate them and, asyou get bigger and bigger,
trying to align that talent.
And that's certainly one thing.
As you start to scale and youstart to get more people and

(55:23):
more leaders, alignment startsto play, frankly, even a bigger
role than strategy when you getinto bigger and bigger
organizations.
If everybody's working, rowingin the same direction, some
really good things can happen.

Klara (55:36):
I love that.
So we covered some of thechallenges and the things that
help you turn things around.
But I'm curious, as you reflecton your cradle point journey,
I'm sure there were somefantastic wins that you are
proud of.
So I want to give you anopportunity to call out some of
the things that maybe stand outto you and even kind of draw in.
You earlier mentioned that itis important to learn how to win

(56:01):
.
We talked about in tennis, andso when you're winning not
playing defensive but continueto take risks and progress are
there any specific things that,again on the winning side, you
learn to practice through thebusiness, keeping that winning
strategy to grow the businessyou want to highlight?

George (56:20):
the biggest one that comes to mind was and this was,
I think, in 2018.
So our business model was wewould sell a router or an
endpoint and you'd buy asubscription to a cloud platform
and then you'd get supportservices and, as a startup,
you're looking to either gopublic or be acquired, and the

(56:42):
valuations were really focusedon how much recurring revenue
you have, how much recurringrevenue you have.
And so we decided, with a lotof great work with my CFO, but
really the overall team let'sput this whole thing together in
a subscription.
So the hardware, the cloud, thesupport, all of it in one

(57:05):
subscription package that youbuy in one, three or five year
terms, and that had not beendone.
It took a tremendous amount ofwork with our channel, because
our channel said, well, wait aminute, we sell hardware through
this system and we sellsoftware through this system, so
we can't put them together.
We had customers that said, no,I don't want a subscription, I
want it the old way, and we lostsome customers.
But we, essentially, within a12 month period, and the whole

(57:31):
organization lined up aroundthis and just did a fabulous job
with channel customers.
All the systems we had to do In12 months we went from, I think
, 12% recurring revenue to 80%recurring revenue and it was, I
think, a great testament to howthe organization locked onto

(57:54):
this opportunity.
And it was risky, there was noquestion.
It was a pretty substantialrisk because others weren't
doing it.
We spent a lot of time gettingthe accounting folks, the
auditors, to say yes, you can dothat and combine it all, and
here's the parameters you haveto live within.
But it turned out fantastic andI think that that was key to

(58:16):
the outcome we got.
In being acquired by Ericsson,we really we elevated the
company and I would get callsfrom our competitors saying
how'd you do that?
And stuff like that.
So that is one of the morememorable changes I think that
really was an inflection pointfor the company.

Klara (58:34):
I love that highlight and actually it made me even more
understand why Ericsson acquiredCradlepoint.
This is no secret.
They've been trying to figureout how to transform to this
model more and more, given theworld has become more and more
software right.
So how do you translate fromjust selling radios to now
becoming more of an ongoinglicense that sort of encompasses

(58:58):
the whole hardware, software,services etc.
Which is a very complex mathand I can only imagine the
amount of work and scrutiny thatprobably went into that model
and the level of risk that youthat probably went into that
model and the level of risk thatyou had taken and probably
quite a bit of measurementwhether you guys calculated
everything correctly or it needsto be readjusted back and forth

(59:21):
or in a different way to ensureyou're driving to that amount
of profitability.
But from 12% to 80%, yeah,that's a fantastic jump.

George (59:29):
It was good.
At the same time, we weretrying to move more of our
functionality out of thehardware and into the cloud.
That's another thing that wasattractive for Ericsson was our
R&D teams had developed a reallyvery successful, powerful kind
of agile development model fordelivering functionality much
more quickly.

Klara (59:48):
Speaking about Ericsson, since we already mentioned it,
you were acquired by Ericsson inOctober 2023.
I still remember when the newscame out and, while I understood
why Ericsson would make thepurchase in many ways since
we've actually chatted earlier Iwas part of a bit of the
Ericsson enterprise play thatthey tried to do with 4G, and

(01:00:08):
Ericsson has been forever tryingto be an enterprise company and
they've had several differentattempts.
I have to give them kudos thatthey're going around this level
differently now with theacquisition versus trying to
build up their own enterpriseteam, although I know they're
still probably submergingbetween some of the wireless
groups they have had andCradlepoint.

(01:00:30):
But how was that moment for you, george?
Obviously, by then, you havebuilt a fantastic business and
had beautiful wins throughout.
How do you reflect on the timeand that announcement?

George (01:00:42):
I think it was a terrific outcome for Cradlepoint
for a couple of reasons.
One, we did get a very nicevaluation.
We had every employee in CradlePoint had stock options, so we
had everybody benefited in someway from that acquisition.
And, most importantly, becausewe were also on an IPO track.
We were starting to talk aboutthat.

(01:01:04):
Erickson wanted to keep everyemployee in the company and
actually has doubled the size ofthe company since we've been
acquired.
So, like you said, they'reinvesting to get into the
enterprise.
So for me it was a win for theemployees.
We built the Cradlepointbusiness with that telco network

(01:01:24):
being a black box to us and wejust got bought by the people
that build that black box.
So the opportunity potentiallyto create more value for our
customers with more insight intohow those systems work, and all
of that was attractive as well.
And then I have to give a lotof credit to Broyer, the CEO of

(01:01:45):
Ericsson, and in fact there'sprobably people in Erickson that
still don't know whatCradlepoint does.
It's 100,000 people in theorganization, right, but, maria,
he's really been willing tomake the investments, kind of
stick his neck out and try toturn that aircraft carrier.
And there are some very bigdifferences between the

(01:02:07):
enterprise and the telco side ofthings and he's been open to
that and leveraging like, hey,we need to do more agile, so
let's get our teams together andfigure some of those things out
.
So it's not easy, though that'sa heavy lift, but overall I
think he's doing a pretty goodjob.

Klara (01:02:29):
Well, that's great to hear obviously free advice for
erickson from me, who they, youknow, don't have to respect at
all and can totally disregard.
But hopefully they're not goingto pull in that site under
their existing business becausethey have done that historically
several times and that's wherethings typically die.
So as far as they continue tohopefully run this really

(01:02:51):
independently and use it as theenterprise arm that I see a new
potential for them succeedingwith it.
But as soon as you startpulling into kind of the mass
network rollout, at least fromeven trajectory of the past
things they have done, thatusually doesn't work.
And it doesn't work actuallyfor Ericsson or any other telco

(01:03:11):
for that matter.
One of the fun examples you caneven point AT&T.
They're like the master ofacquiring businesses at the
highest evaluations and thenselling them at the probably
lowest possible because theycan't figure it out how to merge
the business and technologyinto what they do.

George (01:03:27):
I think Burry is well aware of that, frankly, and he's
created an enterprise segment.
Obviously, we're going to havesome of the core systems will be
the same HR systems and stufflike that but how we go to
market completely different,right, and that was one of the
reasons they were attracted toCreativePoint too.
We have a very robustgo-to-market model team channel

(01:03:49):
program.
All of that that you absolutelyhave to have in the enterprise
space.

Klara (01:03:55):
On that note, george, you have seen a whole wide scope of
business and technology and I'mactually curious from your view
, how you see this spaceevolving, kind of now or the
near-term future.
Obviously, the two hypothesesyou mentioned back in 2011,

(01:04:15):
where you started Cradlepoint,are probably more true than ever
Everything that can beconnected will be connected, and
then the wireless connectivitywill be sort of the key driver
for enterprise andtransformation.
Anything else you want to addto those as far as like
convictions that you see basedon now, your journey of more
than a decade in this space, andmaybe anything you want to

(01:04:38):
forecast?

George (01:04:39):
Usually my forecasts are wrong, but try to get close.
When I think about our business, the wireless wide area
networking, the cellularbusiness, I think there's a huge
opportunity really and I knowyou know this, claire.
But for things like privatecellular networking, right where
you go and you start to thinkabout what could happen in a

(01:05:03):
factory, when you canreconfigure a factory line in a
couple of hours, as opposed torepulling cables everywhere and
do it in two weeks, when youhave the kind of visualization
systems that are starting tobecome available, that can take
advantage of 5G, that horsepower, when you have AI, when you
have robotics, I think there'sjust going to be massive

(01:05:24):
transformation in some of thoseindustries and I think that
creates a lot of opportunity.
I believe Ericsson has all thetechnology needed to be a leader
in private networking andthey've kind of moved that
business more towards theCradlepoint team and created
this enterprise wirelesssolutions business unit so that

(01:05:47):
we can get the best of thego-to-market, best of the
technology andto-market best ofthe technology and some of those
things.
So I think that's going to be abig, big opportunity for that
business.
Everything is AI nowadays, so ifyou don't have AI somewhere in
your pitch, you're probably notgoing to get listened to.
We've been working on thingslike AI ops, where you can

(01:06:10):
predict network failures beforethey happen.
You can repair them beforeneeded.
Things like that are going totake a lot of the workload off
of folks.
You know, I think there's lotsof opportunity in those areas.
I'm kind of I'm half excitedand half terrified of AI, so I

(01:06:32):
think near term is going tocreate some incredible
productivity opportunities Longterm.
I just don't want to report toa robot.

Klara (01:06:45):
I think we all share that mindset and probably depends on
which day I wake up and whatside of the bed I'm more
optimistic or more terrified,but actually I do have that as
one question, so tell me moreabout it.
What do you see as some of themost potential or things that
you're worried about?
Hopefully you sleep well, butwhat would you say if there was
something that keeps you up atnight?
What would that be, george?

George (01:07:05):
Specifically related to AI.
It's specifically related to AI.
It's will the new jobs that aregoing to be created because of
AI outstrip the jobs that aregoing to be?
eliminated because of AI andhow's that timing going to work?
You know, when you think abouta factory floor, for example,
preventing industrial accidents,you don't have to worry quite

(01:07:28):
so much if it's a robot doing itthan a person.
So I think there's going to bea lot of disruption in the
industry and the industries.
I look at what we're doingright now with AI.
It's creating a better customerexperience.
There are lots of great thingsthat are coming out of it.
So I tend to be 60% optimistic.
I'm not 50-50, but I don't know.

(01:07:51):
The CIO of a company I work withsaid the other day he said
what's the world going to belike when you can just have a
conversation with your data?
Where could you take that andwhat could you learn?
And I mean there is tremendousopportunity there.
That doesn't keep me up atnight, but it is something I
wonder about and trying to learnabout too.

(01:08:13):
I'm trying to educate myselfmore and more around AI, but
also trying to step out of thewireless business a little bit
too, and I'm learning more aboutthe healthcare industry and
working with some companiesthere and things like that.
So things to keep me fromgetting bored, I guess.

Klara (01:08:29):
We've talked about that and you being easily bored, so
I'm sure there's no shortage ofthings you continue to dive into
and explore.
On that note, is there anythingyou've kind of mentioned?
Healthcare and obviously the AI, which we all are learning
about, I think, and we'llcontinue to learn for years and
decades.
Let's see what comes.
But anything specifically thatyou want to say is spiking your

(01:08:52):
enthusiasm, now that you'relistening to, as you're from at
least my view facing to what thenext chapter for George would
look like, because, if I againcan't have my opinion, it seems
like your expertise and valuewould benefit many companies.
So it's a matter of do you wantto do other things after, or
what the next things are for you, which I don't know if you had

(01:09:13):
given enough thought or had timeto think about yet.

George (01:09:16):
I'm still kind of sorting through some of that.
I'm not really looking to doanother full-time CEO role right
now.
In a few months, karen, my wife, might want me to start looking
for a full-time role somewhere.
We'll see how that goes.
But I'm working with severalstartups in the area.
I'm on a couple of other boardsin the healthcare space trying
to learn more.

(01:09:36):
There is one thing so I took upmartial arts later in life as
well.
And one thing that I remembermy first day in the class I'm
standing there with my whitebelt on and there's this 12 year
old kid and he's got a brownbelt and they said well, let's
practice some kind of sparringstuff.
You know, he's like four feettall, I'm six foot four, and he

(01:09:59):
looks at me and he goes likethis like you know, right out of
the matrix or something.
Okay, this, this is going tokeep me humble.
But from that day forward Ialso thought you know, you
should always be a white belt insomething.
You should always be a littleuncomfortable learning something
.
So I'm kind of sorting throughthose options.
Right now.
People are reaching out.

(01:10:19):
I'm trying not to jump onto toomuch too soon.
Let things settle a little bitand then I'll decide I'll never
do nothing.
I kind of cringe when peoplesay, oh, you're retired.
I don't see myself as retired,I'm just not doing what I was
doing before.

Klara (01:10:34):
And I commend you on that .
There's actually many studiesthat also say the more you stay
engaged with things that you'repassionate about, the better we
age.
And there are studies comparingI believe, actually comparing
the US US older demographic,because I think in the US people
tend to work even a longretirement, sometimes have like
part time jobs, versus in Europebecause the way social systems

(01:10:57):
are structured and they have atendency to just retire and
don't do as much work after theyreach their retirement age.
And they actually say that thatsome sort of engagement, in
whatever shape people have, iskind of the right path which I
envision for myself too.
I can't imagine to actually nothave things to be curious and
passionate about.

George (01:11:19):
It doesn't look like it's going to be a problem for
you, Clara.

Klara (01:11:23):
Yeah, I have a problem of keeping my enthusiasm in check.
That's actually true.
Of keeping my enthusiasm incheck.
That's actually true.
It's one of my problems isadding too many things on my
calendar, which is something Icontinue to practice as I grow
older.
What are really the thingswhere I can maybe contribute and
drive a difference, whilelearning from excellent leaders
like you, george, and havingthese fantastic conversations?

(01:11:47):
So maybe, on that note, I justwanted to maybe read a short
quote I've gotten from some ofyour employees that encompasses
maybe our conversation.
They all shared the mottohumble yet hungry is so true and
accurate to you.
People have had you meet withtheir CIO customers and the
first thing that the customerused to describe you was as

(01:12:09):
humble.
So there's this beautiful valuethat comes out even from our
conversations.
I concur with that.
Perhaps this conversation aloneis a testament of that.
You're a great leader whomatches the humble, strong,
caring leadership qualities andthose you actually mentioned one
of the founders of Cradle Point, ryan Adamson, which seems like

(01:12:30):
you had a great partnership andyou always give credit to those
that work for you, and you areone of the leaders that everyone
just wanted to perform well andyou have led, obviously Cradle
Point to impressive growth.
So those are words from yourown team that I just picked out
and wanted to share here withyou.

(01:12:51):
And again, I'll conquer.
I maybe still will have one dayopportunity to work under your
leadership.
Let's see what you decide to do.
Everything I've heard.
I'm sure that I would benefit aton of learning from someone
like you, any things you want toshare when it comes to the
leadership principles, becausethat's something that really
seemed to stand out through thisconversation.

(01:13:11):
You shared a number of things,so I don't want to make you
repeat things, but if somebodywanted to take away one, two,
three points to hone in theirown leadership skill, what would
those be?

George (01:13:24):
Well, keeping in mind that this is just my recipe for
guacamole.
It's not everybody's.
People sometimes ask me what'sthe right leadership style and
my answer is always it's yourstyle, because if you're not
authentically who you are,people are going to see through
that immediately.
So I'm an introvert.
I have a certain style.

(01:13:45):
Others are extroverts.
They have a certain style.
Be yourself, be your true,authentic self, warts and all
too.
Because I think you know, oneof the great ways to build trust
is, you know, if you screw up alittle and you admit it, that
helps the rest of theorganization.
So I think that's really key, Ithink, for folks to be aware

(01:14:08):
and be conscious as you.
This is maybe more true of menthan women, but some men will
just go.
What's the next promotion?
How do I get there?
Just trying to climb thatladder as fast as possible.
Every step up on that rungthere's a new balance that has
to happen in terms of work-lifebalance.

(01:14:28):
You know, as a CEO, mywork-life balance was different.
Know, as a CEO, my work-lifebalance was different than it
was as an individual contributor, because people are going to be
waiting for a decision and theycan't do their job.
If I'm well, I'm going to takethe afternoon off and I'll talk
to you next week.
So you know, be conscious aboutwhat you really want in your
role and how much, because Ithink some people work just to

(01:14:51):
live and other people live justto work, and both are fine, but
be be very conscious of that.
And then the final kind ofrecipe around culture, which I
did.
I learned very early.
I told you about the.
The importance of a highfunctioning team is if you have
a direction people believe in,if they trust their leadership

(01:15:15):
and you give them reasons totrust you every day and that
flows both ways and if theybelieve they're making a
contribution and they'rerecognized for it and they like
the people they work with,you're going to have a good
place to go to work, or,nowadays, a good place to go to
remote work or maybe.
But one other thing I will say Iwent to a leadership class,

(01:15:37):
kind of a seminar, at West Pointonce and it really hit home for
me is again, when the stuffhits the fan, in addition to not
running around like your hair'son fire, the number one
leadership quality that becomesmost important is competence.
So you have to be engaged inyour business, you have to
understand your customers, youhave to understand your people,

(01:15:59):
you have to understand yourtechnology.
That's why you know, when youhear about a battle somewhere
and stuff's going sideways, theyall follow the sergeant and the
captain's left going.
Hey, how come nobody'sfollowing me?
I just went to West Point.
You have to know your businessand you have to practice and
study.

Klara (01:16:19):
I love that, actually, something my partner and I talk
about heavily nowadays, andsometimes it seems like there's
leaders who don't fullyunderstand, and maybe rightfully
so.
Some of the businesses becomeso complex and convoluted they
can be really hard to find outwhat is truth.
Like you actually mentionedthat when you started
Cradlepoint, you really focus onwhat is true, and maybe some of

(01:16:41):
the data and AI technologycould allow us perhaps now have
more transparency and be moreagile, instead of maybe creating
PowerPoints and slides, becausethat's something, as I reflect
on, some of my jobs is like.
By the time it goes from likethe level four or five
underneath to the top, like themessage changes completely.
So how do the leaders actuallyknow what's really true if you

(01:17:03):
have so many things?
It's like the silent post, right.
It seems to be equally true inbusinesses, so perhaps the
technology transformation couldhelp us with that, but I think,
equally, it is a skill thatleaders need to be wanting and
willing to dive deep and reallypractice that and get grounded
to what's happening on theground, and it seems like great

(01:17:26):
leaders like you do that, george, thank you.
So maybe to close off, anythingyou would want to inspire
people to be doing more of orless of in 2024, perhaps
physically leadership, but youcan pick any other areas.
I think, given what's happeningin the world, we're in need of
great leadership, now more thanever.

George (01:17:44):
I don't know if I have anything inspiring I do wonder
about, because I've been such aculture kind of leader how do we
create wonderful cultures whenpeople are rarely together and
how are we going to do that?
How do we create that humanconnection of working together,

(01:18:06):
that esprit de corps that I'vegot your back, you've got mine,
when everybody's sitting behinda screen?
That, I think, is a bigchallenge for this next
generation of leaders, because Idon't see it going back to
every day in the office by anymeans.
And there's been benefits,right, like we've got some
terrific talent that wasn't nearone of our hubs, but I also I

(01:18:30):
know we've lost a little bit ofsomething and maybe that's only
important for my recipe ofguacamole and others will find a
better way to do that.

Klara (01:18:40):
And I would disagree with you that you're not inspiring,
because that question actuallyis very inspiring for me and I
could see that could be yourwhole new venture, george.
So if you ever feel likebrainstorming your ideas and how
to maybe create a businessaround that, I'm sure there's
many businesses across the worldwho will need that type of
wisdom and maybe the hybridenvironment is sort of working.

(01:19:03):
But I think we all are stilltrying to navigate what the new
reality is and how to stayconnected in an environment that
is in many ways separate or,yeah, not together in the same
office all the time.
So thank you so much for theconversation.
It's been such a pleasure.
Anything else you'd want to addand what's the best way for

(01:19:24):
people to reach you or followyou?
With your permission, if you'reokay, I'll add the LinkedIn
profile.
I know you have to the episodenotes so they can easily click
and find you, but any other bestway to stay in touch?

George (01:19:35):
LinkedIn is my only social network, so it's probably
the best way to find me and I'mon it all the time.
I'm happy to try to lend a handwhere I can Feel free to reach
out, and I will say it was apleasure talking to you, claire.
I chat and I will say it was apleasure talking to you, claire.
I like your story a lot andit's impressive what you're
doing, both career wise and withyour podcast, and I don't know
where you're finding all theenergy, but that's good.

Klara (01:19:57):
Thank you.
I guess that's why we cling onto tennis, because it is
typically for high energy people.
So you always find a way tospread it between the things
we're passionate about.
So thank you again for joining.
If you have a trip to Austin,please let me know.
Maybe we can go play tennis andthen you can beat me in your
martial arts, because I knowcompletely nothing.
So it'll be fun for me to behumble and have actually no belt

(01:20:21):
at all, but I'm sure I'll learnsome tricks from you on that
front too, george.

George (01:20:26):
Well, I'm sure you'll beat me on the tennis side If
you enjoyed this episode.

Klara (01:20:31):
I want to ask you to please do two things that would
help me greatly.
One, please consider leaving areview on Apple Podcasts,
spotify or any other podcastingplatform that you use to listen
to this episode.
Two, please share this podcastwith a friend who you believe
might enjoy it as well.
It is a great way to remindsomeone you care about them by

(01:20:52):
sharing a conversation theymight be interested in.
Thank you for listening.

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Klara Jagosova

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