February 11, 2025 • 23 mins
The podcast takes listeners on a journey through the transformative changes in AI, retail technology, and digital art. We discuss how Deep Seek is revolutionizing the AI landscape, CVS’s endeavors to innovate retail practices, and The Met's integration of blockchain technology to enhance art engagement.
• Deep Seek's cost-efficient large language model challenges traditional AI approaches
• CVS tests smartphone unlocking technology to improve shopping experiences
• Innovations may raise privacy concerns in retail
• The Metropolitan Museum of Art gamifies art interaction with Web3 technology
• Bridging creativity and technology in digital asset management is essential
• Emphasizes the proactive role of consumers and creatives in tech adoption
You've been tuned in to Graphite Radio, where creativity meets culture. Part of the Kaffeine Audio Network and proudly distributed by Pepper Labs. Thanks for joining us on this journey of ideas, art, and innovation. Be sure to subscribe and stay connected for more stories that shape the world we create. Until next time, keep sketching your vision into reality.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is.
This is this is Graphite Radio.
So what's going on, good people?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is your boy, ad, your conductor instructor, here
to take you through a newepisode of Graphite Pro.
A couple of topics we're goingto jump in today.
We're going to talk a couple ofthings around deep seat versus
AI.
We're going to talk about CVStesting phones that can unlock
products at the store.
We're also going to talk aboutthe world of art and how the
Metropolitan Museum is usingWeb3, ooh, that old word to kind
(01:17):
of bring back like blockchainand NFTs and you know this idea
of, like, digital art that canbe somewhat gamified.
So let's jump right in.
So let's talk about Deep Seekversus AI.
As you know, deep Seek, owned bya Chinese hedge fund High Flyer
, recently dropped a fireball onthe innovation when it comes to
(01:38):
large language models around AI.
Now, outside of these massiveshorts that happens to be
dealing with the stock, the newthing, even like some of these
(02:06):
other large language models,these guys really figure out a
way to, you know, more or less,take the technology and innovate
and actually disrupt what'sgoing on with ai.
Now, you know that ai for likethe last, more so generative ai
for like the last, I would say,two years give or take have now
been using a lot of resources.
What has been like developersdefinitely the chips for nvidia
(02:30):
and more so the biggest resourceit is well, energy and money.
Right, this little smallcompany out of china.
They basically figure out howto make their large language
model work equally as better, ifnot better, using not even a
third of the cost, like afraction of the cost.
I think ChatGPT use about likemaybe like five, or spend about
(02:53):
five billion dollars a year,give or take, to just run their
models.
And let's keep it real, thosemodels are nice, they're very
good, they can render imagery,they can render like text, they
can have conversational usecases.
When it comes to ai, thesethings can study documents like
it's really good.
But these guys figure out a wayto do the more or less the same
(03:14):
thing at the fraction on thecost, the time actually spent to
actually generate that, andeven their biggest approach to
is now making their thing opensource, whereas most of the ai
that we come to like love andknow has been mostly closed
source.
So it's time to kind of checkout.
I think we haven't seen thelast of it, supposedly, I don't
(03:36):
know, but they're saying thatthey really haven't validated
these guys, I guess, informationor the papers or the research
papers to actually, I guess, getcredence to how they approach
making this large-length model.
But either case, it hasdisrupted, like the ai
technology and sector here inamerica, like in ways I guess,
(03:56):
none of us seen coming, you know, especially when it comes to,
like, the tech stocks aroundenergy definitely around like
the chips with nvidia.
Maybe these guys are using theNVIDIA chips, who knows?
But you know, just keep youreye out for this company called
DeepSeek.
I think it's cool because nowwe have competition.
Competition is great, it's goodfor innovation, and now I do
(04:16):
feel like that this DeepSeekapproach is going to I don't
know, it's going to allow AI tobe a little bit more democratic
and be in the hands of morepeople.
This is something I've alwaysbeen a big advocate for.
When it comes to technology,open source is just a better
approach.
Now I know Meta is actuallydoing open source with their AI,
with their large-language model, but it seems that these guys
(04:40):
came in through a monkey wrenchinto all of this and now it's
just calling a bunch ofdisruptions.
So let's check it out, see whathappened and definitely is
worthy of a look.
Now let's dive right into thelane of mobile technology and
retail cbs, one of the nation'slargest drug stores.
They're testing this reallycool effort of allowing, like
(05:04):
right now, just iPhone users I'msure it's going to, you know,
expand to like Android users butthey're allowing users to
unlock the product to thecabinets to retrieve items from
the shelves.
Now, if you know anything aboutthe CVS, especially here in New
York, I'm going to say probablyother places too that they've
been doing some kind of weirdsince like 2020.
(05:25):
They've basically been lockingup all the damn products.
Right, that's the weirdestthing.
You go into CVS, you see allthe products from like shampoo
to deodorant, to medicines,obviously, and even like I don't
know, just toiletries, behind alocked cabinet and you have to
like ring the bell.
They got to come over, they gotto unlock it.
(05:45):
Maybe something you don't wanta lot of people to know is that
you're getting, but nonetheless,you got to get somebody to come
and get this item for you,which is probably going to add
more your time spent inside thedrugstore.
Now I think the cdo of the ceois actually saying that this is
actually reducing a lot ofpeople buying you know products.
Now, well, that's kind of likea no-duh.
(06:07):
So what they've been testingnow is allowing certain people
to more or less unlock what youwant, probably using QR codes or
NFC or you know, kind of likeyou know technology to more or
less just get the items you want.
Now the problem I see with thisis that they already know what
you're doing and what you'respending when it comes to the
(06:27):
items in the store.
You're probably using theloyalty points to, you know,
obviously, transact as you cashout, but now they're going to
know what you're getting beforeyou buy it.
So it feels a little odd thatmaybe this goes in a little bit
into the realm of privacy issues, but nonetheless, this is their
way of uh, I don't know justtrying to reduce friction.
(06:48):
I guess the biggest way toreduce friction in the retail
story is to well, not lock upeverything.
I think, um, we just see howthis kind of plays out.
I know that, um, amazon is Iguess that's they the new
retailer.
You want to look at it.
So, I don't know, maybe theseguys are gonna, you know, try to
solve this issue to competewith Amazon, because I
(07:09):
personally feel like, if I haveto constantly go into the store
and use a phone to unlock alocker to get a product.
Hey, I might as well just orderit online.
So we'll see what happens withthese guys.
But, hey, good luck to you, cvs.
So we're going to get into thelast thing, when it comes to the
news, the Metropolitan Museumof Arts.
(07:30):
They're now using Web3.
I mean, that's like I guess anold term, right, I mean, even
though it was kind of invented,I guess, a couple of years ago,
but nonetheless, they're usingWeb3 in this blockchain.
Yeah, another I guess old term.
It's amazing how things justdoesn't age3 in this blockchain.
Yeah, another I guess old term.
It's amazing how things justdoesn't age well in this digital
world.
To, uh, more, let's get peopleto well, interact with art,
(07:53):
definitely historic art, in theform of like a game.
Now, what they're doing isthey're using, like, uh, this
thing called art links, whichthey're kind of calling as the
first blockchain based web game,like, okay, that is so not true
, but whatever these playersallow, you know, they explore
connections between like 140works from the museum and
collections that earn them likeNFTs, badges and rewards.
(08:15):
It's basically gamifying, thewhole experience.
Now, this has been developed inlike partnership with this lab
called TRR Labs, this game moreor less offer, like these weekly
challenges, that highlights art, movements, material, almost
like symbols, while introducingplayers to the blockchain and
artistic like potential.
The more you interact with thisgame, the more you can gamify
(08:37):
it.
But it seems that they're usingblockchain technology to
authenticate true art.
Now I get it.
Blockchain is.
It sounds cool.
It definitely works well withcrypto.
So I mean, nfts are still athing.
Right, it's a non-fungibletoken.
So, technically, crypto,blockchain or any kind of like
Bitcoin is technically NFT.
(08:58):
So I think they're using thisto more or less trying to engage
people to look at theMetropolitan Museum as like
innovation hub.
Right, I mean, these guys havebeen around for a while and it
seemed to be more open to usingtechnology to engage your
audience, because, at the end ofthe day, I mean, the goal is to
get people into theMetropolitan Museum to view art.
But this is a great way,potentially, to engage people
(09:19):
prior to visiting New York or,more so, engaged the brand, I
guess, before you even decide totake a trip and go to the
Metropolitan.
So we'll check this out and seewhere it goes.
Maybe there's a good use casenow for, I guess, the blockchain
again when it comes to brandsand, you know, maybe people's
personal possessions.
So we'll see how this plays out.
All right, so let's get intothe graphite tool of the day.
(09:44):
I want to talk to you guys aboutdesign and content systems and
specifically when it comes to,like, ai and management.
So you know, I started mycareer as a designer, working
for a lot of different places.
One was the Yellow Pages.
Right, I was a what they call adirectory artist or a directory
designer back then, and we usethis thing called UDAX I think
(10:05):
it stands for Universal Design,ad Content right, it was
basically the sizes that you sawin the Yellow Pages.
You had the TQPs, you had thesquares, you had the half pages
and the whole pages.
Right Now, that same principlestarted to be applied on the web
principle started to be appliedon the web.
(10:28):
So then I kind of moved fromone of you know working at the
yellow pages as an intern to youknow, actually doing things for
the internet.
So, as I was getting more intolike doing things for the
internet, I started those inthose same sizes kind of applied
online.
So where it's going to be, thedrop down, I think, the banner,
what they call it, the billboardat the top, then you have the
skyscraper, which was the sidebanner, then have the square
banner.
Then you had like a bunch ofdifferent banner ads.
(10:48):
Right Went from doing thingsfrom the yellow pages to now
doing things more so for onlinewebsites and commerce sites that
people can see banner ads right, definitely working at an ad
agency and even some of the dotcoms.
Now, all of that said, each oneof those different ways of
producing an ad, right, whetherit's a print ad or a digital ad
it required this thing called aDAM, which is a digital assets
(11:11):
manager, and a lot of us.
We use this DAM to manageassets, whether it's going to be
scan photography back in theday, photography we would
actually shoot with a greatphotographer, whether doing
stills or somebody doing somemotion video or people producing
actual commercials into theaudio and vo or whatever.
But this damn would likeliterally manage everything for
(11:34):
the brand.
Definitely a lot of thingsaround the brand assets logos,
funds and literally everythingright.
Just imagine, like a your owncloset of just digital assets to
produce creative things,whether it's going to be posters
, ads well, anything visualright?
Well, a lot of those dams havemore or less been digitized over
the last I don't know 30, 40years or so, but within the last
(11:57):
, I would say, 15, 10 to 15years.
A lot of these dams have moreor less been automated Because,
if you think about it, you know,some people would say that a
dam is a place where yourcreator would go to die, right?
So if you think about a dam oftoday, it has to do a couple of
different things.
It has to be something thatmanage itself, right?
Maybe AI can kind of do thosethings.
(12:18):
It has to be something thatlook at these big creative teams
across the globe.
They're no longer concentratedin like one area, right?
You got teams that are workingin multiple time zones, multiple
countries, multiplegeolocations.
So being able to manage thesethings is quite important too.
Also, dams now have to be morethan just, you know, something
(12:40):
that's going to manage, I guess,digital assets, but it has to
manage content you know, whichis obviously gonna be like a CMS
or content management system.
It also got to manage a designsystem, and a lot of design
systems are being used for likedigital products, where it's
gonna be, you know, a website ora mobile app, or like a kiosk
(13:00):
or whatever anything digitalright, whether it's gonna be a
desktop app or some kind ofenterprise app that can be used
on a tablet, right?
So, across all those differenttouch points, you got to think
about like a DAM or some type ofasset management system that's
going to have to manage CMSs,design systems or even just the
assets themselves, right?
(13:20):
Take it as an example.
Apple has this thing called ahuman interface guidelines.
They have their way ofapproaching all of their
different digital products withthe iPhone, laptop, ipad or even
things you see in CarPlay.
All those digital channels moreor less use a lot of the same
components that users are goingto use.
So when you go from one productto the next, you just kind of
(13:42):
instantly know how to use it,just because of the components
are kind of familiar.
So now we're in this new worldthat a digital asset manager is
going to have to do everythingabout that.
Now how do you get over thishump of really understanding how
to apply new technologies tolike digital asset managers?
So I got a couple of differentpoints that's going to help us
get through that.
(14:03):
Point.
Number one I think we have toget over the fear of technology,
especially when it comes tomanaging our work right.
I know a lot of people don'tlike this AI word, but let's
keep it real right.
Ai is nothing new.
It's been around since I don'tknow, probably since World War
II.
We use AI a lower grade of it.
Nothing new about AI in general.
(14:23):
I mean even your map that youuse to navigate everything.
It uses some type of likemachine learning AI.
But I think the biggest thingis we kind of have to get over
this fear of technology,especially when it comes to like
applying it to our work.
It's here I think the bestthing we could do is figure out
how to use it right, figure outhow to be more productive.
If nothing else, just show yourmanager that you're willing to
(14:44):
learn right.
So I think that's point numberone.
Point number two these digitalasset managers.
They need to kind of evolve tocreate a workflow.
I think in today's world, thisdigital asset management
workflow, I think a lot of it'sgoing to have to be evolved to
the point where we're going tobe more collaborative about all
these different assets.
(15:04):
Is there a way to look atwhat's currently not being used
in the dam?
Can we sunset it?
Can we archive it a little bitbetter in a manner that doesn't
really kill it off but it can besearchable and found, maybe
later if you need it.
Is there a way that we can showeach other which components or
assets are being used the most?
Can we use AI to even iterateon some of the assets in the DAO
(15:27):
?
If you're thinking about likesome type of retail skew or
whether it's gonna be a productor some type of you know image
of a product, could we use asmart dam to look at that
product and give you threedifferent versions of it that
can be used for like a websiteor like some kind of social
channel or even some kind oflike on a home advertising
(15:48):
promotional thing?
So I think that's how we kindof have to look at like point
number two, by evolving how thedigital asset management works
when it comes to workflows.
Point number three is thatintersection with big tech,
creativity and marketing.
All these brands, all thesedifferent companies are more or
less going to have a marketingdepartment because, at the end
of the day've got to havesomebody that can go out and
(16:10):
capture people's attention,especially in an attention
economy, to talk about theproduct or services that you may
offer.
Is there a better way that wecan interact with marketing
using tech.
I know certain giants like AWS.
They're using software as aservice when it comes to
collaboration with companies andeven using this, obviously,
with their ad agency.
It really shaped this wholeconsumer experience with the
(16:33):
strategy team, with the designteam, with the creative team and
even with the account team,right.
So is there like a better waythat we can even just have big
tech more or less optimize theoverall creative process?
Now I think the next point Iwant to kind of talk about is
there a better way to bridge thegap between creativity and
technology?
You know I know I used to runthese kind of like creative
(16:56):
morning sessions at some of myold gigs that we would more or
less have a lot of people fromthe studio to really talk about
the different capabilities.
Some people would talk aboutlike visual data visualization
and design.
Some people would talk aboutlike visual data visualization
and design.
Some people will talk aboutlike blockchain and how it
applies to I don't know, likeretail and even like a liquor
brand.
Other people talked about moreor less design thinking and how
(17:20):
it could be used to.
You know, come up with the beststrategies to guide the
creativity.
So is there a better way to kindof bridge the gap and
creativity and technology?
I always think it is, so youknow something to kind of
consider with that as well.
Now, that's a weird thing.
When it comes to conspiracytheories, I usually try not to
get into those type of opendiscussions because it's just an
(17:40):
endless loop of just everything.
You're just not going to getanywhere.
But I do think debunking a lotof conspiracies in general when
it comes to like technology,especially with like internal
groups, is always a betterapproach.
Having informativeconversations that can be backed
by your data or maybe somethings from news articles or
(18:02):
just reliable sources, it'sprobably a better way to go.
I mean, I know a lot of peopleare going to be a little edgy
about ai and the machines arecoming to kill us.
So it's this weird thing aroundlike, I guess, the Terminator
approach.
Nonetheless, I do thinkdebunking any kind of conspiracy
theory always helps, right?
I've been more or less in thistechnology design space and
creative space definitely sincelike the late 90s.
(18:23):
But to have it in like usdesigning web pages and I must
say the biggest conspiracyaround any of these things is
that people think it's going tobe a fad, or people think it's
just going to take a job.
Now, what I've noticed, likealways, the people who learn how
to use the latest technologywill always be the people who
will obtain a job, be like asymptomatic expert.
(18:43):
So, yeah, I do think debunkingconspiracy theories is probably
a better way to go right.
Have a conversation, just talk.
I think the last point I want tohave here is talking about the
future of software as a servicein the creative industry.
I really want to talk about.
Creativity can be turned into aservice because it technically
(19:05):
is, but it's also differenttypes of services that can more
or less be I wouldn't sayautomated, but it can be
different types of services thatcan more or less be I wouldn't
say automated, but it can bemore or less automated in the
sense that you know things canbe repeatable.
You don't have to start allover again every time you want
to do something net, new.
Now think about that.
There are a lot of people outhere that these different tools
that we're using where there'sAdobe, figma or Miro or Canva or
(19:30):
whatever they're all trying tofigure out the best way to, you
know, optimize the creativeprocess.
So I think the biggest thing wecan do is look at these tools.
Is there a way that we can justsee them purely as that and the
biggest thing that allows us todo is to think about the
problem more than anything?
I would always say, when itcomes to design and creativity,
the more you can think aboutsomething and then let the
(19:53):
execution be 10% in the process,I think, the better.
Right, you spend a lot of timecoming up with these beautiful
comps or this really cool, Iguess campaign or this big
out-of-home thing that justlooks cool, but if it doesn't
really resonate with your enduser or your audience, then
that's really a lot of wastedtime.
So if we can use these creativetools that are like software as
(20:13):
a service, then I think we canspend more time actually
thinking about the product,right, Putting more thought into
it, like actually collaboratingand being more human when it
comes to, like, solving designproblems and creative problems.
So, software as a service.
When it comes to creativeindustry, now I'll leave you
with this last.
I wouldn't say a point, butit's always a service.
When it comes to creativeindustry, now I'll leave you
(20:33):
with this last.
I wouldn't say a point, butit's more of an observation just
know that there are a lot ofdifferent um, can I put this?
There are a lot of differentpeople having these behind the
door.
I guess meetings and rightfullyso these meetings, you know,
more or less thought aboutbehind closed doors first,
before they're made public.
(20:53):
But nonetheless, you know thereare decisions being made and I
think the best thing one coulddo is to always just, you know,
stay proactive, learn about thelatest technology, learn about
the latest trends, learn aboutthe latest trends when it comes
to culture and ideas.
You know, be more on aproactive when it comes to your
career or your thoughts, or justbeing just a well-rounded,
(21:14):
creative and just a designprofessional.
So the more that you can likearm yourself with knowledge
maybe take a class on somedifferent things, get some
certifications the better Right.
You know nobody wants to justbe replaced by a human or AI or
a human who knows thistechnology.
I think the more that you canarm yourself by just being
(21:35):
proactive with your learningsand just overall, connecting
with the right people and evenfinding the right mentorship,
the better right.
So these closed door meetingsat some point will be made
public, and a lot of thesemeetings are made by people who
look just like me and you.
It could be your friends, itcould be your boss, it could be
your neighbor, but nonetheless,just stay proactive.
And you know the old saying youstay ready, you don't have to
(21:57):
get ready.
So that's the Pro Tools tipsfor today.
All right, good peoples, I'mabout to get out of here.
I hope you guys enjoyed thislatest episode of Graphite Pro
Radio.
Let me know your thoughts.
We are constantly improving theproduct and just try to iterate
the best we can and just hopingyou guys are enjoying
everything about the podcast andthe show.
(22:17):
Feel free to you know, like,subscribe and share this pod
with everybody you know and thecrew, and just getting the word
out there.
I want this to just be a reallybeautiful thing for the
community.
Also, me and a couple of myguys from the Ad Bros podcast
decided we was going to bringthe podcast back.
So cool, you'll be seeingsomething soon.
(22:38):
We're going to be rolling outnew episodes, recently got back
together to do some recording.
We're going to make this thinga little bit more fresh and
bring back some of these pointsof views when it comes to like
insights and culture.
So be on the lookout for the AdBros podcast Now streaming on
the Caffeine Network.
And, as I always say, stay cool, stay creative, be human Peace.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You've been tuned in to Graphite Radio, where
creativity meets culture, Partof the Caffeine Audio Network
and proudly distributed byPepper Labs.
Thanks for joining us on thisjourney of ideas, art and
innovation.
Be sure to subscribe and stayconnected for more stories that
shape the world we create.
Until next time, keep sketchingyour vision into reality.
This is.
This is this is Graphite Radio.
So what's going on, good people?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is your boy, ad, your conductor instructor, here
to take you through a newepisode of Graphite Pro.
A couple of topics we're goingto jump in today.
We're going to talk a couple ofthings around deep seat versus
AI.
We're going to talk about CVStesting phones that can unlock
products at the store.
We're also going to talk aboutthe world of art and how the
Metropolitan Museum is usingWeb3, ooh, that old word to kind
(01:17):
of bring back like blockchainand NFTs and you know this idea
of, like, digital art that canbe somewhat gamified.
So let's jump right in.
So let's talk about Deep Seekversus AI.
As you know, deep Seek, owned bya Chinese hedge fund High Flyer
, recently dropped a fireball onthe innovation when it comes to
(01:38):
large language models around AI.
Now, outside of these massiveshorts that happens to be
dealing with the stock, the newthing, even like some of these
(02:06):
other large language models,these guys really figure out a
way to, you know, more or less,take the technology and innovate
and actually disrupt what'sgoing on with ai.
Now, you know that ai for likethe last, more so generative ai
for like the last, I would say,two years give or take have now
been using a lot of resources.
What has been like developersdefinitely the chips for nvidia
(02:30):
and more so the biggest resourceit is well, energy and money.
Right, this little smallcompany out of china.
They basically figure out howto make their large language
model work equally as better, ifnot better, using not even a
third of the cost, like afraction of the cost.
I think ChatGPT use about likemaybe like five, or spend about
(02:53):
five billion dollars a year,give or take, to just run their
models.
And let's keep it real, thosemodels are nice, they're very
good, they can render imagery,they can render like text, they
can have conversational usecases.
When it comes to ai, thesethings can study documents like
it's really good.
But these guys figure out a wayto do the more or less the same
(03:14):
thing at the fraction on thecost, the time actually spent to
actually generate that, andeven their biggest approach to
is now making their thing opensource, whereas most of the ai
that we come to like love andknow has been mostly closed
source.
So it's time to kind of checkout.
I think we haven't seen thelast of it, supposedly, I don't
(03:36):
know, but they're saying thatthey really haven't validated
these guys, I guess, informationor the papers or the research
papers to actually, I guess, getcredence to how they approach
making this large-length model.
But either case, it hasdisrupted, like the ai
technology and sector here inamerica, like in ways I guess,
(03:56):
none of us seen coming, you know, especially when it comes to,
like, the tech stocks aroundenergy definitely around like
the chips with nvidia.
Maybe these guys are using theNVIDIA chips, who knows?
But you know, just keep youreye out for this company called
DeepSeek.
I think it's cool because nowwe have competition.
Competition is great, it's goodfor innovation, and now I do
(04:16):
feel like that this DeepSeekapproach is going to I don't
know, it's going to allow AI tobe a little bit more democratic
and be in the hands of morepeople.
This is something I've alwaysbeen a big advocate for.
When it comes to technology,open source is just a better
approach.
Now I know Meta is actuallydoing open source with their AI,
with their large-language model, but it seems that these guys
(04:40):
came in through a monkey wrenchinto all of this and now it's
just calling a bunch ofdisruptions.
So let's check it out, see whathappened and definitely is
worthy of a look.
Now let's dive right into thelane of mobile technology and
retail cbs, one of the nation'slargest drug stores.
They're testing this reallycool effort of allowing, like
(05:04):
right now, just iPhone users I'msure it's going to, you know,
expand to like Android users butthey're allowing users to
unlock the product to thecabinets to retrieve items from
the shelves.
Now, if you know anything aboutthe CVS, especially here in New
York, I'm going to say probablyother places too that they've
been doing some kind of weirdsince like 2020.
(05:25):
They've basically been lockingup all the damn products.
Right, that's the weirdestthing.
You go into CVS, you see allthe products from like shampoo
to deodorant, to medicines,obviously, and even like I don't
know, just toiletries, behind alocked cabinet and you have to
like ring the bell.
They got to come over, they gotto unlock it.
(05:45):
Maybe something you don't wanta lot of people to know is that
you're getting, but nonetheless,you got to get somebody to come
and get this item for you,which is probably going to add
more your time spent inside thedrugstore.
Now I think the cdo of the ceois actually saying that this is
actually reducing a lot ofpeople buying you know products.
Now, well, that's kind of likea no-duh.
(06:07):
So what they've been testingnow is allowing certain people
to more or less unlock what youwant, probably using QR codes or
NFC or you know, kind of likeyou know technology to more or
less just get the items you want.
Now the problem I see with thisis that they already know what
you're doing and what you'respending when it comes to the
(06:27):
items in the store.
You're probably using theloyalty points to, you know,
obviously, transact as you cashout, but now they're going to
know what you're getting beforeyou buy it.
So it feels a little odd thatmaybe this goes in a little bit
into the realm of privacy issues, but nonetheless, this is their
way of uh, I don't know justtrying to reduce friction.
(06:48):
I guess the biggest way toreduce friction in the retail
story is to well, not lock upeverything.
I think, um, we just see howthis kind of plays out.
I know that, um, amazon is Iguess that's they the new
retailer.
You want to look at it.
So, I don't know, maybe theseguys are gonna, you know, try to
solve this issue to competewith Amazon, because I
(07:09):
personally feel like, if I haveto constantly go into the store
and use a phone to unlock alocker to get a product.
Hey, I might as well just orderit online.
So we'll see what happens withthese guys.
But, hey, good luck to you, cvs.
So we're going to get into thelast thing, when it comes to the
news, the Metropolitan Museumof Arts.
(07:30):
They're now using Web3.
I mean, that's like I guess anold term, right, I mean, even
though it was kind of invented,I guess, a couple of years ago,
but nonetheless, they're usingWeb3 in this blockchain.
Yeah, another I guess old term.
It's amazing how things justdoesn't age3 in this blockchain.
Yeah, another I guess old term.
It's amazing how things justdoesn't age well in this digital
world.
To, uh, more, let's get peopleto well, interact with art,
(07:53):
definitely historic art, in theform of like a game.
Now, what they're doing isthey're using, like, uh, this
thing called art links, whichthey're kind of calling as the
first blockchain based web game,like, okay, that is so not true
, but whatever these playersallow, you know, they explore
connections between like 140works from the museum and
collections that earn them likeNFTs, badges and rewards.
(08:15):
It's basically gamifying, thewhole experience.
Now, this has been developed inlike partnership with this lab
called TRR Labs, this game moreor less offer, like these weekly
challenges, that highlights art, movements, material, almost
like symbols, while introducingplayers to the blockchain and
artistic like potential.
The more you interact with thisgame, the more you can gamify
(08:37):
it.
But it seems that they're usingblockchain technology to
authenticate true art.
Now I get it.
Blockchain is.
It sounds cool.
It definitely works well withcrypto.
So I mean, nfts are still athing.
Right, it's a non-fungibletoken.
So, technically, crypto,blockchain or any kind of like
Bitcoin is technically NFT.
(08:58):
So I think they're using thisto more or less trying to engage
people to look at theMetropolitan Museum as like
innovation hub.
Right, I mean, these guys havebeen around for a while and it
seemed to be more open to usingtechnology to engage your
audience, because, at the end ofthe day, I mean, the goal is to
get people into theMetropolitan Museum to view art.
But this is a great way,potentially, to engage people
(09:19):
prior to visiting New York or,more so, engaged the brand, I
guess, before you even decide totake a trip and go to the
Metropolitan.
So we'll check this out and seewhere it goes.
Maybe there's a good use casenow for, I guess, the blockchain
again when it comes to brandsand, you know, maybe people's
personal possessions.
So we'll see how this plays out.
All right, so let's get intothe graphite tool of the day.
(09:44):
I want to talk to you guys aboutdesign and content systems and
specifically when it comes to,like, ai and management.
So you know, I started mycareer as a designer, working
for a lot of different places.
One was the Yellow Pages.
Right, I was a what they call adirectory artist or a directory
designer back then, and we usethis thing called UDAX I think
(10:05):
it stands for Universal Design,ad Content right, it was
basically the sizes that you sawin the Yellow Pages.
You had the TQPs, you had thesquares, you had the half pages
and the whole pages.
Right Now, that same principlestarted to be applied on the web
principle started to be appliedon the web.
(10:28):
So then I kind of moved fromone of you know working at the
yellow pages as an intern to youknow, actually doing things for
the internet.
So, as I was getting more intolike doing things for the
internet, I started those inthose same sizes kind of applied
online.
So where it's going to be, thedrop down, I think, the banner,
what they call it, the billboardat the top, then you have the
skyscraper, which was the sidebanner, then have the square
banner.
Then you had like a bunch ofdifferent banner ads.
(10:48):
Right Went from doing thingsfrom the yellow pages to now
doing things more so for onlinewebsites and commerce sites that
people can see banner ads right, definitely working at an ad
agency and even some of the dotcoms.
Now, all of that said, each oneof those different ways of
producing an ad, right, whetherit's a print ad or a digital ad
it required this thing called aDAM, which is a digital assets
(11:11):
manager, and a lot of us.
We use this DAM to manageassets, whether it's going to be
scan photography back in theday, photography we would
actually shoot with a greatphotographer, whether doing
stills or somebody doing somemotion video or people producing
actual commercials into theaudio and vo or whatever.
But this damn would likeliterally manage everything for
(11:34):
the brand.
Definitely a lot of thingsaround the brand assets logos,
funds and literally everythingright.
Just imagine, like a your owncloset of just digital assets to
produce creative things,whether it's going to be posters
, ads well, anything visualright?
Well, a lot of those dams havemore or less been digitized over
the last I don't know 30, 40years or so, but within the last
(11:57):
, I would say, 15, 10 to 15years.
A lot of these dams have moreor less been automated Because,
if you think about it, you know,some people would say that a
dam is a place where yourcreator would go to die, right?
So if you think about a dam oftoday, it has to do a couple of
different things.
It has to be something thatmanage itself, right?
Maybe AI can kind of do thosethings.
(12:18):
It has to be something thatlook at these big creative teams
across the globe.
They're no longer concentratedin like one area, right?
You got teams that are workingin multiple time zones, multiple
countries, multiplegeolocations.
So being able to manage thesethings is quite important too.
Also, dams now have to be morethan just, you know, something
(12:40):
that's going to manage, I guess,digital assets, but it has to
manage content you know, whichis obviously gonna be like a CMS
or content management system.
It also got to manage a designsystem, and a lot of design
systems are being used for likedigital products, where it's
gonna be, you know, a website ora mobile app, or like a kiosk
(13:00):
or whatever anything digitalright, whether it's gonna be a
desktop app or some kind ofenterprise app that can be used
on a tablet, right?
So, across all those differenttouch points, you got to think
about like a DAM or some type ofasset management system that's
going to have to manage CMSs,design systems or even just the
assets themselves, right?
(13:20):
Take it as an example.
Apple has this thing called ahuman interface guidelines.
They have their way ofapproaching all of their
different digital products withthe iPhone, laptop, ipad or even
things you see in CarPlay.
All those digital channels moreor less use a lot of the same
components that users are goingto use.
So when you go from one productto the next, you just kind of
(13:42):
instantly know how to use it,just because of the components
are kind of familiar.
So now we're in this new worldthat a digital asset manager is
going to have to do everythingabout that.
Now how do you get over thishump of really understanding how
to apply new technologies tolike digital asset managers?
So I got a couple of differentpoints that's going to help us
get through that.
(14:03):
Point.
Number one I think we have toget over the fear of technology,
especially when it comes tomanaging our work right.
I know a lot of people don'tlike this AI word, but let's
keep it real right.
Ai is nothing new.
It's been around since I don'tknow, probably since World War
II.
We use AI a lower grade of it.
Nothing new about AI in general.
(14:23):
I mean even your map that youuse to navigate everything.
It uses some type of likemachine learning AI.
But I think the biggest thingis we kind of have to get over
this fear of technology,especially when it comes to like
applying it to our work.
It's here I think the bestthing we could do is figure out
how to use it right, figure outhow to be more productive.
If nothing else, just show yourmanager that you're willing to
(14:44):
learn right.
So I think that's point numberone.
Point number two these digitalasset managers.
They need to kind of evolve tocreate a workflow.
I think in today's world, thisdigital asset management
workflow, I think a lot of it'sgoing to have to be evolved to
the point where we're going tobe more collaborative about all
these different assets.
(15:04):
Is there a way to look atwhat's currently not being used
in the dam?
Can we sunset it?
Can we archive it a little bitbetter in a manner that doesn't
really kill it off but it can besearchable and found, maybe
later if you need it.
Is there a way that we can showeach other which components or
assets are being used the most?
Can we use AI to even iterateon some of the assets in the DAO
(15:27):
?
If you're thinking about likesome type of retail skew or
whether it's gonna be a productor some type of you know image
of a product, could we use asmart dam to look at that
product and give you threedifferent versions of it that
can be used for like a websiteor like some kind of social
channel or even some kind oflike on a home advertising
(15:48):
promotional thing?
So I think that's how we kindof have to look at like point
number two, by evolving how thedigital asset management works
when it comes to workflows.
Point number three is thatintersection with big tech,
creativity and marketing.
All these brands, all thesedifferent companies are more or
less going to have a marketingdepartment because, at the end
of the day've got to havesomebody that can go out and
(16:10):
capture people's attention,especially in an attention
economy, to talk about theproduct or services that you may
offer.
Is there a better way that wecan interact with marketing
using tech.
I know certain giants like AWS.
They're using software as aservice when it comes to
collaboration with companies andeven using this, obviously,
with their ad agency.
It really shaped this wholeconsumer experience with the
(16:33):
strategy team, with the designteam, with the creative team and
even with the account team,right.
So is there like a better waythat we can even just have big
tech more or less optimize theoverall creative process?
Now I think the next point Iwant to kind of talk about is
there a better way to bridge thegap between creativity and
technology?
You know I know I used to runthese kind of like creative
(16:56):
morning sessions at some of myold gigs that we would more or
less have a lot of people fromthe studio to really talk about
the different capabilities.
Some people would talk aboutlike visual data visualization
and design.
Some people would talk aboutlike visual data visualization
and design.
Some people will talk aboutlike blockchain and how it
applies to I don't know, likeretail and even like a liquor
brand.
Other people talked about moreor less design thinking and how
(17:20):
it could be used to.
You know, come up with the beststrategies to guide the
creativity.
So is there a better way to kindof bridge the gap and
creativity and technology?
I always think it is, so youknow something to kind of
consider with that as well.
Now, that's a weird thing.
When it comes to conspiracytheories, I usually try not to
get into those type of opendiscussions because it's just an
(17:40):
endless loop of just everything.
You're just not going to getanywhere.
But I do think debunking a lotof conspiracies in general when
it comes to like technology,especially with like internal
groups, is always a betterapproach.
Having informativeconversations that can be backed
by your data or maybe somethings from news articles or
(18:02):
just reliable sources, it'sprobably a better way to go.
I mean, I know a lot of peopleare going to be a little edgy
about ai and the machines arecoming to kill us.
So it's this weird thing aroundlike, I guess, the Terminator
approach.
Nonetheless, I do thinkdebunking any kind of conspiracy
theory always helps, right?
I've been more or less in thistechnology design space and
creative space definitely sincelike the late 90s.
(18:23):
But to have it in like usdesigning web pages and I must
say the biggest conspiracyaround any of these things is
that people think it's going tobe a fad, or people think it's
just going to take a job.
Now, what I've noticed, likealways, the people who learn how
to use the latest technologywill always be the people who
will obtain a job, be like asymptomatic expert.
(18:43):
So, yeah, I do think debunkingconspiracy theories is probably
a better way to go right.
Have a conversation, just talk.
I think the last point I want tohave here is talking about the
future of software as a servicein the creative industry.
I really want to talk about.
Creativity can be turned into aservice because it technically
(19:05):
is, but it's also differenttypes of services that can more
or less be I wouldn't sayautomated, but it can be
different types of services thatcan more or less be I wouldn't
say automated, but it can bemore or less automated in the
sense that you know things canbe repeatable.
You don't have to start allover again every time you want
to do something net, new.
Now think about that.
There are a lot of people outhere that these different tools
that we're using where there'sAdobe, figma or Miro or Canva or
(19:30):
whatever they're all trying tofigure out the best way to, you
know, optimize the creativeprocess.
So I think the biggest thing wecan do is look at these tools.
Is there a way that we can justsee them purely as that and the
biggest thing that allows us todo is to think about the
problem more than anything?
I would always say, when itcomes to design and creativity,
the more you can think aboutsomething and then let the
(19:53):
execution be 10% in the process,I think, the better.
Right, you spend a lot of timecoming up with these beautiful
comps or this really cool, Iguess campaign or this big
out-of-home thing that justlooks cool, but if it doesn't
really resonate with your enduser or your audience, then
that's really a lot of wastedtime.
So if we can use these creativetools that are like software as
(20:13):
a service, then I think we canspend more time actually
thinking about the product,right, Putting more thought into
it, like actually collaboratingand being more human when it
comes to, like, solving designproblems and creative problems.
So, software as a service.
When it comes to creativeindustry, now I'll leave you
with this last.
I wouldn't say a point, butit's always a service.
When it comes to creativeindustry, now I'll leave you
(20:33):
with this last.
I wouldn't say a point, butit's more of an observation just
know that there are a lot ofdifferent um, can I put this?
There are a lot of differentpeople having these behind the
door.
I guess meetings and rightfullyso these meetings, you know,
more or less thought aboutbehind closed doors first,
before they're made public.
(20:53):
But nonetheless, you know thereare decisions being made and I
think the best thing one coulddo is to always just, you know,
stay proactive, learn about thelatest technology, learn about
the latest trends, learn aboutthe latest trends when it comes
to culture and ideas.
You know, be more on aproactive when it comes to your
career or your thoughts, or justbeing just a well-rounded,
(21:14):
creative and just a designprofessional.
So the more that you can likearm yourself with knowledge
maybe take a class on somedifferent things, get some
certifications the better Right.
You know nobody wants to justbe replaced by a human or AI or
a human who knows thistechnology.
I think the more that you canarm yourself by just being
(21:35):
proactive with your learningsand just overall, connecting
with the right people and evenfinding the right mentorship,
the better right.
So these closed door meetingsat some point will be made
public, and a lot of thesemeetings are made by people who
look just like me and you.
It could be your friends, itcould be your boss, it could be
your neighbor, but nonetheless,just stay proactive.
And you know the old saying youstay ready, you don't have to
(21:57):
get ready.
So that's the Pro Tools tipsfor today.
All right, good peoples, I'mabout to get out of here.
I hope you guys enjoyed thislatest episode of Graphite Pro
Radio.
Let me know your thoughts.
We are constantly improving theproduct and just try to iterate
the best we can and just hopingyou guys are enjoying
everything about the podcast andthe show.
(22:17):
Feel free to you know, like,subscribe and share this pod
with everybody you know and thecrew, and just getting the word
out there.
I want this to just be a reallybeautiful thing for the
community.
Also, me and a couple of myguys from the Ad Bros podcast
decided we was going to bringthe podcast back.
So cool, you'll be seeingsomething soon.
(22:38):
We're going to be rolling outnew episodes, recently got back
together to do some recording.
We're going to make this thinga little bit more fresh and
bring back some of these pointsof views when it comes to like
insights and culture.
So be on the lookout for the AdBros podcast Now streaming on
the Caffeine Network.
And, as I always say, stay cool, stay creative, be human Peace.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You've been tuned in to Graphite Radio, where
creativity meets culture, Partof the Caffeine Audio Network
and proudly distributed byPepper Labs.
Thanks for joining us on thisjourney of ideas, art and
innovation.
Be sure to subscribe and stayconnected for more stories that
shape the world we create.
Until next time, keep sketchingyour vision into reality.
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