Remembering 'The Bearman' Dave McKigney

Grappling With Canada needs your help!!Visit https://linktr.ee/GrapplingWithCanada for ways to donate to the program!Welcome to Grappling With Canada! Each month Andy "The Taxman" is joined by various guests to take a deep dive into the past of some of Canada's most influential, infamous and impressive Wrestling exports! Not a Canadian? Don't worry, no passport needed! The international connections of wrestling with and to Canada will surprise you!In this months episode, The Taxman is joined by Wes Maidment as we discuss the Ontario WIldman Dave McKigney!Find the NWCA podcast here: (9) NWCA Podcast - YouTubeFind the NWCA Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ontariowrestlingclippingsofthepast/Please be sure to like, subscribe, rate and review! (Hopefully 5 Stars!!)You can now pick up a shirt with proceeds going to charity!www.grapplingwithcanada.threadless.comYou can now also buy me a coffee (or a beer!) to support the show at:www.buymeacoffee.com/grapplingDon't forget to support our show sponsor Manscaped by shopping at www.manscaped.com and use the promo code "GWC" for 20% off your purchase AND free shipping!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi folks, Andy the Taxman here.

(00:03):
Before we get into today's program, please take a minute to rate, review, and subscribe
to Grand Play With Canada on any podcasting platform of your choice.

(00:37):
I

(01:07):
am your host, Andy the Taxman.
This is Grappling with Canada.
Hello listeners and welcome back to Grappling with Canada.
Today is going to be an interesting episode.

(01:28):
Basically as you know, these episodes are massive deep dives into the life, career,
and trajectory of certain individuals from Canadian professional wrestling history.
In the back catalog you would naturally see such characters as Rowdy Roddy Piper, George

(01:49):
Gordienko, Billy Two Rivers, Stu Hart, Rhonda Singh, among many, many others who we have
profiled in excess on the program Grappling with Canada.
Today is a little bit different because this episode quite honestly is almost a lead in
into our July episode, which is why in your podcast feed you will see that this episode

(02:17):
has not come out on June 1st, it comes out on June 30th.
There will be an episode on July 1st.
Both of these episodes are intertwined with each other.
I think you will understand why as we progress in today's episode.
Now as I said, normally these episodes are a deep dive look.
We go well into the career of the individual.

(02:41):
We look at match histories, match statistics, we look at where they came from, what they
did, who they were.
All of that we will get into in some form or fashion in today's episode, but it's going
to be much more free flowing than most of the episodes that I've done on Grappling with
Canada.
Also we will only have one guest on today's episode and that is a big fan first off, but

(03:09):
more than that a curator of history of our subject matter today, Dave McKigny.
Now later on in the episode you're going to hear a lot from good friend of the show, Wes
Maidment who runs a tremendous amount of Facebook groups dedicated to the preservation of professional

(03:31):
wrestling history, but specifically and the one that we're going to be more focused on
today, the history of the Bear Man, Dave McKigny.
You're going to hear from Wes later on in the episode about all things Dave McKigny
from not just the fan perspective, but also somebody who has spent a good majority of

(03:55):
his adult life looking into researching, cataloging and saving most importantly the history of
the promoter, of the wrestler, of the man, Dave McKigny.
I'm really looking forward to presenting that interview, that conversation to everybody

(04:18):
because Dave McKigny is one of these polarizing individuals in Canadian professional wrestling
history.
A couple of reasons for this exist.
One is and this is my personal opinion on it, there's a lot of information out there
that paints Dave McKigny as just a quote unquote outlaw promoter.

(04:43):
That would be somebody who's not affiliated with any of the major promotions.
That would be back in the day promotions such as the WWF, the AWA, the NWA, even you go
into Mid-South, you can go into Portland.
He was not affiliated with any of these.
He ran his own promotion.

(05:05):
And we automatically get a strike against him from wrestling individuals who cover the
sport but really only cover what happened with the big ones, the NWA, the AWA, the
WWF.
So he doesn't get his due there.
What happens then obviously as we all know in professional wrestling, things are misconstrued

(05:29):
and then they are retroactively reported on after being misconstrued if you will.
And it furthers the misconception of just how important an individual was.
We've seen this in countless times and many times on this program.
You will look at Rhonda Singh for example as a prime example of this.

(05:54):
Many people will look at her WWF run which was abhorrent, let's be honest about it.
But many people have not gone back to discover her WWA run, her run in AJW for example and
just what an impact she had on the sport in itself and what her presentation meant for

(06:18):
many people coming up, many women coming up in the professional wrestling world at that
time.
Like I said, today is going to be a much more free flowing episode.
Footloose and fancy free if you will because the July episode is going to be very, very
heavy subject matter but it also ties into directly the individual that we're going to

(06:41):
talk about today, Dave McKigney.
So like I said, Wes Maymend is going to be joining me on the program.
You can look in the show notes of today's episode.
You will see listed the Facebook groups that Wes runs.
You will also see a link to his podcast, the NWCA podcast with his co-host Jesse who was

(07:04):
also a previous guest on Grappler with Canada that would have been the Whipper Billy Watson
episode in season two which you can find in your back catalog of Grappler with Canada
on whatever podcasting platform that you are currently listening to this show on.

(07:27):
Now who was Dave McKigney?
This is an interesting question so perhaps we should start there and then we're going
to jump right into a fun conversation.
So for those who are unaware, Dave McKigney was born June 9th, 1932 in Toronto, Ontario,
Canada.
His start in professional wrestling is interesting.

(07:49):
In around 1949, the future Wildman, Dave McKigney, was a 17 year old and was competing in amateur
wrestling in the Toronto area.
He was really a rough and tumble character in real life and in the ring when he ended
up meeting up with Tom Rusk who wrestled as Red Hawk in the territory.

(08:13):
Red Hawk would go on to train McKigney a little bit but more importantly allowed McKigney
to be in the safe comfort of a wrestling ring and I legitimately mean that.
McKigney actually slept in the middle of the ring when he was training with just a pillow
and a cover.

(08:34):
Wrestlers would come and bring him food and they would train him and this would go on
for weeks and weeks.
Now through Rusk McKigney would meet other wrestlers including Red Garner who you're
going to hear about later on in the episode and specifically with my discussion with Wes
Mayment.

(08:56):
He would also start appearing around shows in Toronto billed as the flying Frenchman
Jacques Dubois or sometimes Frenchy Dubois.
Now these names might get confusing but a lot of this will be a lot more clear in my
conversation with Wes Mayment.
McKigney would also go on to appear in both Eastern and Western Canada using different

(09:21):
names such as Jean Dubois.
He would also be billed as Pierre Dubois, Dave Dubois or Mike Dubois.
Again these are aspects that will be covered in my conversation upcoming with Wes Mayment.
So that kind of sets the stage for the early life of the Bearman.

(09:45):
From there you're going to hear my conversation with Wes Mayment but before that I want to
play some classic audio.
Now unfortunately there is not a lot of video evidence of the Bearman or of his matches,
his presentation, his promotional skills, promos, much of that is lost to time.

(10:10):
But there is a couple of important things that he brought to the table one of which
is the wrestling bear.
So what I'm going to play for you is actually a conversation between wrestling historians
Jim Cornette and Dave Meltzer.
Now this is from roughly 10 years ago they were actually watching and critiquing a match

(10:32):
between Dave McKigney the Wildman and Terrible Ted the wrestling bear which you're going
to hear a lot more about in my discussion with Wes Mayment.
So in this discussion not only are you going to hear their interpretation of the match
that they're watching at the time but you're also going to get a brief history of the wrestling

(10:54):
bear aspect in professional wrestling because that's going to come up in my conversation
with Wes Mayment.
And you're also going to hear a little bit more nuance about Dave McKigney.
So I'm going to play some classic audio.
This is about a 7 minute clip and then on the other side we're going to get right down

(11:17):
to business my tremendous conversation with Wes Mayment.
Please enjoy.
This is an attraction that hasn't been around for probably a good 25 years.
This is the wrestling bear Terrible Ted and this looks like it's Buffalo New York that's
his trainer Gene Dubois.
He's actually going to wrestle his trainer.

(11:39):
Wrestling bears were a real big attraction I guess in the 60s and probably the early
70s.
Late 70s as a matter of fact as late as the late 70s early 80s in Tennessee Nick Goulas
in Tennessee used to love to use wrestling bears but in this case Gene Dubois the bear's
trainer is going to wrestle the bear whereas in a lot of the southern circuits the bear

(12:00):
was always used to wrestle either maybe the most hated wrestling manager or one of the
top eels.
There's a problem of course with wrestling the bear if you think about sports entertainment
or what wrestling is and it's really hard to teach a bear to do a spectacular ring entrance
do good high spots and I mean so this is a different form of a match than you're normally

(12:23):
used to.
Well you'll notice also the bear has a muzzle there's obviously a really good reason for
that because.
Oh guys are scared to wrestle bears for you know.
Oh well even if you train a bear and even if you teach a bear to wrestle and even if
a bear is tamed and domesticated it still has its cranky points especially if it's a
female bear during certain times of the month or if it's supposed to be hibernating during

(12:45):
certain times of the year but these bears are so strong if he wanted to he could take
that muzzle and hit you one time in the in the stomach or in the chest with that with
that big nose and break every rib in your body so these bears are dangerous.
There's very dangerous and one of the reasons why they don't have it is because many of
the bear trainers the bears have hurt people.

(13:07):
Yeah I mean David McKinney's wife was killed.
Yeah the Canadian wild man who trained bears for a long time in Canada his wife was killed
by the bear and as well there's been instances where the bears would get aggravated by flashes
of cameras or something that would happen it would come over the top rope and go out

(13:28):
into the crowd which generally caused the consternation you would imagine when six or
eight hundred pound bear goes flying through ringside wrestling seats people generally
scurry.
Luckily this bear was trained in amateur wrestling not professional wrestling so he's you know
knowing not to break too many rules or get too vicious you know he knows he knows his
limitations but some of those bears when they're you know if you by accident got them riled

(13:50):
up you know I mean it's it could be it could be a really scary situation.
I once saw a match in it wasn't this was not a match what am I saying this was an incident
in Canada where they brought Yoshiaki Fujiwara you know from Japan since he was this great
shooter and they had a real wild bear they had a bear that was not trained to wrestle
and he jumped in this pen that this very nasty bear was in and I mean the bear would just

(14:15):
growl at him and things like that it was like you know I mean he is the bravest man that
I've ever seen just to go in the pen and then the bear would look at him and just see him
as like this competing animal and just charge at him and I mean knocked him silly oh my
god he was the bear didn't realize that his opponent the referee was not his opponent.
Well then you've also got to realize later you know the bear has no shoulders so how

(14:35):
are you going to pin the bear that's another problem Bobby Eaton wrestled a bear one time
in his life Bobby Eaton is scared to death of big dogs but he had to wrestle a bear and
the bear was being really stiff with him.
Oh no he's trying to get the referee to wrestle a bear which is probably pretty smart.
And the referee is smart enough not to and you know how big Bobby Eaton's fists are he
drew back and just drilled the bear in the right in between the eyes with a right hand

(14:57):
as hard as he could.
Oh I think that would be a dumb idea.
The bear lightened up.
The bear lightened up after that he started working with him.
But that's a true story and Jerry Lawler wrestled a bear one time and it was the only time that
I can remember.
He's going to try to pin him but wait a minute.
The only time I can remember the bear won a match about his qualification Lawler pulled

(15:19):
out a chain and hit the bear with a chain and was disqualified.
Oh my god.
Well I have seen matches where the bear has won by count out when the guy just goes okay
you're just not paying me enough and I'm going I'm leaving.
In fact I saw superstar Billy Graham did that once.
It was in one of the cities in the Bay Area.
I don't think it was San Francisco.
And it was it was just an he was attempting to have a match with the bear and it was just

(15:40):
sort of like I think the bear's muzzle actually got off and it was like okay I'm losing this
match by count out.
The referee was out of the ring there which I think is the best place for the referee
to be in a match like this.
I remember Nick Adams who used to train a bear named Gentleman Ben and also Terrible
Ted and also Terrible Ted would would often give the bear a Coke that he would sit up

(16:03):
and he would drink after the match.
That's right.
I remember that I remember that's that thing with the bear sitting there in the ring and
it was one time he wouldn't leave the ring because he wanted more Cokes.
They didn't have any more Cokes in bottles.
He didn't know how to drink out of a cup and it was a slightly nasty scene because the
bear wouldn't leave and they couldn't make him.
Oh probably held up the show.
Now wait a minute.

(16:23):
I think that's been the referee that would appear to be the end of the match because
bears don't know the rules very well but unfortunately this one did though this one was was a good
flying bear I mean mayor a good flying mayor artist.
Yeah.
But whether you beat the opponent or you beat the referee the point is it was a great attraction
in the 50s and 60s and 70s to see the wrestling.

(16:45):
You still wrestle Gene Dubois.
To see the wrestling bear.
It was a good attraction though I remember you know the crowds were up when the bear
would come.
Roy Shire used to bring the bear into San Francisco and that bear knows to lay down
a little bit.
Now with Fujiwara of course he was a master of submissions and somehow or other the bear
was very good at defending submissions so Fujiwara did not get a chance to utilize any
of those holds he knows.

(17:05):
How would the bear tap I wonder?
I think with his forelegs or his back legs?
I think that I think that if you got a submission on him I think he would like bite your arm
off so maybe he wouldn't tap.
And there's a problem also with.
There's a single leg.
That poor referee doesn't know what's going on.
There was a female wrestling bear that used to compete and I'm trying to remember even

(17:27):
though it was given a male name it was a female bear and the female bear would sometimes take
an amorous liking to some of its opponents and roll its opponents up underneath it and
begin frantic motions which the opponents would not appreciate very much.
Yeah.
Now see that bear did a pretty good spot.
That's actually a better wrestler than Hulk Hogan though.

(17:49):
Well the bear has exhibited more moves in this match so far than Hulk Hogan and Kevin
Nash put together.
And actually the bear.
Not only that the bear sells better.
Yes.
And is willing to go down and the bear has more hair than Hogan and is not as gray as
Nash.
Uh oh I think he's got him pinned now though.

(18:10):
The referee just doesn't want to count.
The referee's got the chain.
The referee's going to pull the bear off.
Wait a minute.
I don't know about that one.
I don't know if I would.
Oh.
The bear took down the referee again.
The bear seems to be an unstoppable force.
Yeah.
And I'm surprised that you know if Jim Hurd had been around in the 50s he would have thought

(18:31):
of this instead of the hunchbacks and the ding dolls.
Well actually he did but he used them in ring entrances and just didn't have them wrestle
with Matt Bourne.
Remember when Matt Bourne was Big Josh?
That's true.
He was dancing bears which by the way was the same night that Kevin Nash debuted his
Oz.
So they could have saved some money.
They could have had Kevin Nash impersonate one of the bears.

(18:53):
But he can't dance as well as wrestle.
But I'm sure he can drink coke though.
I'm sure he can do a lot of things with coke.
You can drink it.
You can pour it over your head.
I have friends that I've met that traveled on his shows and they got to know him.

(19:13):
They got to meet him.
They got to know the wrestlers.
They got to they got let in so to speak.
And they say nothing except what a great guy he was.
He always paid what he promised.
He would lose out and is out of his own pocket to pay his guys.
And that stands a lot to testament considering yes sometimes you're going to only draw 200

(19:34):
because the weather is too nice or it's too cold or it's too wet or whatever.
The aspect of him being an Ontario or Canadian wrestling icon is completely overlooked.
And I think that more people should take the consideration of thinking about how it worked

(19:58):
back in the 70s.
This is not the 90s.
This is not the 2000s.
This is the late 60s and the 70s.
And yeah the guys drove a billion miles in Ontario.
Hi I'm Wes Maidment and I'm here with Andy tonight talking about one of my favorite things
Dave McKegney.

(20:18):
You can find us on the Facebook with our five Facebook wrestling history pages.
The Ontario Wrestling Clippings of the Past, The Wildman Page, the BC Tribute Page, the
Ric Flair Tribute Page and the National Wrestling Clippings Alliance main page.
So we have the NWCA podcast on our YouTube channel.
You can check that out at NWCA podcast on YouTube.

(20:41):
Do you know what year specifically he started training?
It's not specific.
I don't have an exact date but I do know he debuted I'm pretty sure in 1953.
Yes because he was training with the Red Gardener correct?
Correct.
Yes okay.
So maybe we'll start with that.
So he starts training in early 50s.

(21:04):
He's training with Red Gardener.
Maybe give a little bit of background on Red Gardener.
Whatever you have from your internal data banks if you will.
Sure.
Okay yeah so Dave McKegney started out as a really skinny small kid and starting out
wrestling training with Red Gardener.

(21:25):
Red Gardener had a small promotion north of Toronto called the CCWA, Central Canadian
Wrestling Association.
Featured mostly lightweight guys, light heavyweight guys.
But the main thing that came from Red Gardener obviously was Dave McKegney, The Wildman who

(21:45):
was an icon in Ontario for decades.
But we also had Bull Johnson who helped train out of there also out of Hamilton.
And of course Waldo Von Erick and Baron Sakluna and Jito Mongol all spent some time with Red
Gardener learning the trade and applying in small little really small halls around Ontario

(22:10):
and around the Toronto.
They never ventured that much into Toronto because obviously Frank Tunney owned and ruled
everything.
But they did venture into very small halls and there's no competition whatsoever.
But they still packed fans in every week in some of their local establishments.

(22:31):
Okay so that kind of leads us to his start with Maple Leaf Wrestling because obviously
like you said Tunney's ruled the roost as you will in Maple Leaf Wrestling.
So how did he get his start getting into Maple Leaf Wrestling and then maybe let's get into
the flying Frenchman name that he had before he started the other names.

(22:54):
So we know that he became famous because of his bear Terrible Ted and that's where he
got in the start in the early 60s.
Well I should say that in the late 50s.
He got the bear in approximately 1958 and that changed the whole outlook on things for
all the promoters in the local area because they could bring Dave and his bear in as an

(23:18):
added attraction.
Frank wasn't stupid.
Frank booked him quite a bit in different halls.
He was going under the name of Jean Dubois the flying Frenchman at the time who also
he also had Dave Dubois and Jean Dubois as in the French spelling of John.

(23:39):
He took the bear and him all over Ontario and they would headline actually in some of
tiny cities like Hamilton St. Catharines Niagara Falls and then generally around the again
around the Toronto General Market area but never headlining in Maple Leaf Gardens of
course.

(23:59):
Dave was small.
Dave was a short guy.
He was like maybe five ten at that time.
He was not even probably 200 pounds.
So he he just couldn't stand with the big boys like with Kineski and Kowalski and some
of the guys they had in Toronto at the time.
Flying Frenchman I don't really know where it came from other than it was a gimmick name

(24:22):
that would have probably given him some allure for I don't even know if he could speak French.
He was part Scottish so I mean he probably didn't even speak French but yeah he was built
from Sudbury and North Bay and different quote French speaking places.
Now I think Terrible Ted is something that we need to dive into a little bit here because

(24:45):
I I don't know what else on the podcast will be able to talk about a live wrestling bear.
So for individuals who are not familiar Terrible Ted was the one of the draws if you will of
that time and correct me if I'm wrong but Terrible Ted was bought from a circus that
was going out of out of or going out of business I guess is the proper way to put it.

(25:10):
But not only that the bear was detoothed and declawed which is an interesting I mean nowadays
that would be very very much frowned upon but you know back in the day that was kind
of the the sideshow attraction appeal having a you know seven foot six hundred pound bear
on your on your tour as a as a traveling circus aspect.

(25:32):
I Andy believe me I'm not that enamored with the bear a lot of people are my podcast partner
Jesse is just enamored with the bear wrestling.
I I would never have gotten in the ring ever I know people who have personally people who've
gotten in the ring with the bear I would never do that I never would want to even step in

(25:54):
the ring but I don't understand the lure of it it just doesn't do anything for me at all
like some people don't like the lady wrestlers some people don't like the midget wrestlers
or what have you but it just doesn't interest me whatsoever but Dave and Ted had a relationship

(26:14):
and that's right from everybody I talked to that knew both of them both of how you're
going to know a bear but you know if you if you stayed with David at any point in time
which some of the people I've talked to have they said that the bear was awesome he was
trained he was like a big dog and Dave toured constantly with terrible Ted probably crossing

(26:38):
the states at least five times California Nevada Arizona right down the west coast and
then through Texas over to Florida and then back up the east coast and he usually made
it back up to Canada just in time for the summer season.
See it's interesting you bring up the part about you know Ted and Dave having quite the

(27:02):
relationship but the fans had quite the relationship with the matches between Ted and Dave and
we're not talking about fans you know in the 200 300 400 fan range we're talking about
crowds of 8000 plus including Boxing Day in 1958 there was 8250 fans who went to Maple

(27:26):
Leaf Gardens to see terrible Ted and Dave McKinney have their match and terrible Ted
with the big victory in that one I think sent a lot of the fans home happy but I'm with
you you know the the thought of jumping in the ring against a bear whether or not he
has his fangs if you will is quite the quite the daunting task or task to hop into a ring

(27:52):
in regards to.
My good friend Terry Dart the late Terry Dart he actually got in the ring more than once
with Ted and he Ted slipped and fell on Terry's ankle broke his ankle and they if you want
to call it they finished the match Terry hobbled out of the ring stayed for the rest of the

(28:17):
show and then drove himself to the hospital to get his ankle put on in a cast and that
scares the living bejesus out of me thinking like put yourself in Andy oh Andy Andy come
on up into the ring here we're just going to throw you off the ropes a couple times
but I can't do it no no it's okay they drag you in they throw you off the ropes the next

(28:39):
thing you know someone's giving giving you a even if it was a soft clothesline right
I the bear falling on you my god they're at least they're probably not 700 pounds but
they're at least 400 pounds anyways I don't get it.
Yeah it's not one of my most planned things to do in the ring certainly speaking but it

(29:04):
is interesting that so he has terrible Ted he's making a name for himself and that's
kind of when he starts to make the transition into the Dave McKinney that we would know
later in life as the wild man what do you know about his transformation and how he started
to you know he grew out the beard he grew out the hair he started to adopt this a different

(29:29):
personality was that specifically because of the matches with Ted or is this something
that he kind of picked up on and planned on doing throughout his early stages of his
career I'm I don't know 100% but I'm quite sure that it was a it was a look that would
coincide with the bear the big hairy bear obviously big hairy Dave because he was he

(29:55):
was a bushy man that wild man gimmick which so many people have used like furpo and I'm
trying to think of guys that had long straggly hair and covered themselves up with the hair
and beards and stuff it was just a gimmick it was just a thing I think he started not

(30:17):
shaving in approximately 71 72 I think he was still clean shaven and he also one of
the other guys who came out of not necessarily out of the camp with him but basically grew
up with him in that 60s time frame was Willie the wolf man and there was another hairy long

(30:40):
haired bearded guy who they complemented each other really really well and they were a great
traveling tag team also for for I don't know close to 20 years see it's interesting too
because you know a lot of fans will obviously know Dave McKinney in his Toronto aspect but

(31:01):
he wanted to stampede and have quite the run there as well and he was using you know his
plethora of names there as well it's interesting you know when we go through the timeline of
Canadian professional wrestlers normally they'll start with the name able to morph to another
one and then they'll kind of settle on on their main name and that's kind of the one

(31:22):
that you see them traveling around Canada with but McKinney is kind of a weird one because
like you said earlier right he's he's Jean Dubois then he's Pierre Dubois then he's Dave
Dubois then he's then he's the wild man then he's Canadian wild man when he starts on the
wild man as his traveling gimmick full-time rather than moving territory to territory

(31:47):
with these rotating plethora of names okay and he had a rotating plethora I do have a
list of some of his names he might he used Mike Dubois which was funny because that was
like Cecil Dubois real name I think that chap from Montreal and his I think in 1972 Dave

(32:11):
started working with the WWE out of Indianapolis with a Snyder and a bruiser and he was billed
as the beast in the WWE when they were taking some of the guys and the bear and his daughter
stepdaughter Rachel down to Indianapolis in Chicago in Detroit to wrestle for the WWE
late 73 basically no more Jean Dubois Jean Dubois was pretty much always the wild man

(32:40):
but it's funny Andy the the guys I talked to that worked with him and were back in that
day in the 70s they all called him the bear man which is another name but it was more
like the guys in the dressing room would call him the bear man as opposed to the fans knowing
him as the bear man and I've always known him as the wild man and all my research everything

(33:05):
I usually write about him is basically either Dave or the wild man.
See the bear man part is interesting too because obviously he was traveling with a terrible
tent and he was kind of known as almost the bear whisper and we'll get into that a little
bit later in the episode as well but the wild man is the one that seems to stick in the

(33:27):
majority of wrestling fans minds today right you can see it you know we see the post on
you know the pro wrestling history Facebook page or any of your national clipping pages
it's almost always now the wild man but it is interesting that there were so many of
these different names throughout all these different territories like you said he's in

(33:52):
tri-states he's in he's in Stampede he's out he's out further east he's down down very
into the deep south and all these names but it's the same person yeah and he plays off
this this character like you said that is not a character specific to him because there

(34:13):
were other ones like Pampiro Furpo who's a tremendous wild man you know there are several
others that come to mind quickly but he kind of stands out as this Canadian style of these
international wild men if you will who are running wild between you know the 50s 60s

(34:36):
and 70s throughout North America the it's it's funny because when you try to research
things on internet and I've I have I was thinking about it today Andy I've probably researched
on the internet him for I think I counted up 19 years now that I've been doing research

(34:59):
on him on the internet and I believe me I've fallen down the rabbit hole a million times
so it's just it's so strange to be looking for different names and you have no idea sometimes
like would you look for Gene Kineski you might see Gene misspelled might and sometimes yes

(35:19):
this Kineski is misspelled by accident in the ad but Gene Kineski Gene Kineski he was
at the start he was Gene Kineski at the end he was Gene Kineski there's no hardly a
ever anything any deviation whatsoever and Dave Dave was yeah I mean in the ads in the
late 80s he was built as the Canadian wild man which okay another one right he he he

(35:44):
just really had that I don't know what it was maybe different areas he wanted to be
built differently or something but yeah as we grew more into the 80s and he was more
of a stay-at-home guy in Ontario yeah he was just just the plain the wild man everyone
knew just the wild man oh the wild man shows are coming to town or whatever right so I

(36:10):
think that's an interesting aspect to to think about I want to get back to that in a second
but what I want to kind of circle back to is the perception of the wild man because
like you said from your research right finding out information if it's misspelled if it's
miss if it's mislabeled whatever you're you're going through research and you're trying to

(36:33):
find you know Dave is it actually him was he actually there but a lot of that is because
he was in so many different places right and and you know you look at all the different
territories that he was wrestling in obviously we have the Canadian ones we just listed but
you know he was he was wrestling in Georgia Championship wrestling he was with the W.A.

(36:54):
like you said earlier he was also in the A.W.A. for quite a while that's one of the common
misconceptions that I seem to find when I'm going through whether it's Facebook groups
or you see it on Twitter or you'll see you know short video clips on your daily motion
or whatever and it's often framed that Dave McKinney was just the local Canadian guy but

(37:18):
that's not necessarily the case when you start to dig into his worldly travels if you will
and I'm not talking about just North America like he had some he had some shots in in Japan
as well but these aren't shots just against you know in has been talents and he's not
just a spot in the card he's wrestling some big-name talent maybe can you just for a second

(37:43):
elaborate a little bit more on some of the bigger-name talent that he ended up facing
both in North America and then in overseas sure you know I've when I stumbled upon his
Japanese results I was shocked I mean he has a DQ win over a no key and he's got some really

(38:04):
big wins against lesser guys who were coming up still in Japan and that's pretty amazing
considering he would have been in the mid 70s he would have been 35 40 great shape for
you know for the guy but still not a famous worldwide name although he did tour Germany

(38:28):
and England I have found some results from England with him and he was billed as a Dubois
there Scotland and Wales and England so I mean 50 55 and part of 56 1956 he was in England
and Europe for close to a year and that's it's you know a lot of people just ha ha ha

(38:50):
it's just it's just the wild man just that guy that promotes little small little shitty
little towns in Ontario and you know he's got all these old guys but the guy had a massive
career a massive career if he hadn't died he probably would have been wrestling for
at least I would say two more three more years and we can talk about what may have happened

(39:11):
after the accident later if you wish yes and I would like to get to that but it just I
want to stay on something you just said there is you know the perception that you know he
was he was quote just that Ontario guy wrestling just these small territories because you look
at the list of appointments that he had over the years you just you know you talked about

(39:34):
Enoki who we went into depth last episode on my episode talking about the great Antonio
and what what happened with the great Antonio versus Antonio Enoki yeah but you know to
get even a DQ win over Enoki in Japan was a big deal and we're talking about 75 that's

(39:57):
when Enoki was a god like the way that the way that wrestling fans in North America
would view Hulk Hogan in the eight late 80s that was Enoki in you could realistically
say from from 71 to like 79 and and here's McKay over there in 75 80 went over that over

(40:19):
him but you look at some of the big names that he wrestled even just domestically right
he had big matches against another Canadian WWF champion at the time Ivan Koloff for example
he defeated Lou Albano at the time was a huge deal with the WWF right like he's he's also

(40:43):
wrestling a young Roddy Piper at one point in I believe that was in the AWA so you look
at his you look at his his match listing his match trajectory it's not like he was some
some you know an has-been-talent schlub like we're talking about right I know that's kind
of the the way that misinformed possibly you know modern style fans would look at him now

(41:12):
when you just look at him as oh he was that Ontario promoter guy they don't take the time
to go back into his match history and understand you know how he rose through the ranks in
North America maybe that is because of the the name issue that we've you know talked
about at some length so far because it's hard to it's it's real easy to go through the internet

(41:36):
and find Roddy Piper and you get you know 50 50 match results and you can see all the
big stars it's a lot harder for somebody like McKinney who had different ring names in different
promotions wrestling at different times so it's it is difficult to get an actual chronological
match listing unless you're willing to put in the time and effort like you have done

(42:00):
the the he it's strange like we talk about and he is he's considered I don't personally
I don't consider him but he is considered basically in nowadays as a nobody people only
know him in modern day standards like you said as because of his posters and that's

(42:24):
that's it it's not there's hardly anything no one cares and I don't really think Andy
I really don't think for some reason that Dave didn't care either he knew he was always
coming home I think he always knew he was coming home what he was on a tour he had his
book dates maybe if he was gone for say three months or four months and with the bear or

(42:46):
if you when he didn't have the bear and yeah him and Willie the Wolfman they would tour
the outside basically of New York City WWWF in the early 70s as you mentioned he was one
of the first people to face Ivan Koloff before Ivan lost the belt to Pedro Morales and he

(43:08):
wrestled everybody in the WWWF in the early 70s.
To Cluna who was one of his training partners he wrestled Morales he wrestled Strongbow
tons of times and and I think also traveling all through North America and Canada he would
be a guy that would say hey look you know eventually I'm going to get my own promotion

(43:33):
maybe we'll change exchange numbers and maybe you can come up and work for me and I think
that was one of the reasons well how he was able to get so many great names over his
promoting career and Andy you know I've looked at his promoting career and I have approximately
1200 matches as excuse me as the Wildman or the Canadian Wildman or Jean Dubois through

(43:57):
his promoting career from about 66 right to his death in 1988.
Okay that's something that we're going to circle back to in just a minute as well because
you know as prolific as his wrestling career was I think his promoting career is one again
that's really overlooked and again you know you can you can look on message boards and

(44:18):
what and what have you like you said a lot of fans will gravitate to the posters because
they were and still are like one of those things that kind of catches your eye throughout
all the kind of wrestling noise if you will out there.
There's this odd misconception that you know he would quote just book the old guys or just

(44:40):
have the old timers in there and that's not necessarily the case and we'll dig into that
in just a second but I want to stay on this on this thought of him as a wrestler and what
he brought to the table in all these different markets because again here's somebody who
isn't he's not your standard mechanic right he's not coming in to shine up the you know

(45:03):
the local baby face he's not coming in as as the monster heel or anything like that
but he's one of these guys who comes in and just makes connections and it seems it almost
seems to me and correct me if I'm wrong but he seems to make connections in every promotion
then use those connections to get himself further along in each successive promotion

(45:26):
while at the same time planting the seeds for having these individuals that he's making
these connections with to come into his promotion when he's ready to make that step later in
life.
What I've read when researching his travels through the states was that he was well liked

(45:47):
and you got to figure if we were touring as a tag team say and you were a great star and
I was just tagging along with you like a lot of the tag teams of the older days where there
was a young guy and an older veteran kind of guy I think a lot of times if Dave wasn't
a wrestler he wouldn't have gone on the card because he just would have been the bear and

(46:11):
the bear would have been going up against the number one heel at the time or the whatever
right so Dave wrestled on every single card practically he didn't just didn't wrestle
the bear he wrestled on the undercard on just about every card he ever wrestled so a lot
of times he was working two nights two times a night and everything I've read has been

(46:33):
that the guy was a hand he could he could do it I mean he could go full full on baby
face or full on heel no no if stands or buts based on who he was going to wrestle and where
and when he was in whatever promotion he was in he used to go through the mid-atlantic
states and wrestle just about every night for two or three weeks straight just do the

(46:58):
circle and it would be probably one night with him wrestling someone and the bear would
come in as a some sort of a DQ finish or something like that and then the next time week or the
next two weeks and when the next show would be there they would have him in the bear and
he he had the talent and I again I think he was I think he liked traveling but I think

(47:23):
he was a homebody and I think he liked coming home.
The homebody thing is not something that's specific to him either because there's a lot
of wrestlers and we've seen it throughout the years who like to stay in their general
territory right I'm thinking about somebody like a Stu Hart for example.
We could pick a mad dog Frenchy Pelican out of Manitoba yeah some of the some of the other

(47:47):
guys who were who were big here they lasted a long time but they just didn't want to travel
they had either they had a happy some job that they wanted to hang on to or they you
know they they just didn't want to travel and be away from home.
So it's interesting that you know here's somebody who wants to be close to home but then moves

(48:08):
into the promotion side of things so maybe that's a maybe that's a good segue to move
into that portion of his career so from all your research when was the seed sorted to
be planted for him to move into the promotion range and what really was the genesis for
him to start promoting shows himself.

(48:30):
I think that a red Garner probably taught all the guys really really well Von Eric,
Secluna, Jito Mongol I think you taught them all really well I think he probably taught
them all aspects of the business so that they could carry on if they so desired.
Dave was promoting by himself in the early I'm sorry late 50s 58 59 and they were doing

(48:55):
some very very short small tours with Waldo and Secluna and Jito Mongol so you know they
they were booking the very small halls so the very small arenas in the summertime in
Ontario and they were doing the rounds and being rather successful.

(49:15):
Dave got the bear he realized the bear was money and they started getting books while
doing doing the bear routine and like I said he did four or five tours of North America
so coming back home working terrible tight in Quebec to working with terrible tight in
Ontario through the summertime Dave started promoting I'm my research says 1965 and that

(49:44):
was late summer 65 that was in conjunction with Whipper Watson who I think had sort of
broken away from Tony at the time and maybe one of the little piece of his own action
especially for his son Phil who was coming up well actually for his son John Whipper
Watson had two sons his older son John who was the first Whipper Watson jr. got hurt

(50:07):
and he quit the business and then Philip who was the more famous Whipper Watson jr. came
along and he was a very very frequent partner with Dave in the in the early days promoting
and working on his cards yeah I'd say 65 66 for sure I do have articles that say Whipper

(50:30):
Watson stating that Dave McKegney is his promoter and they're working in conjunction
and doing the summer circuit in Ontario the cottage circuit or summer circuit whatever
you want to call it now Whipper Watson is an interesting name that would be advertised
as as or that he would advertise as McKinney as his promoter because obviously we know

(50:54):
Whipper Watson and his connection with the Toronto office and the Tonys maybe could you
go to detail a little bit about the friction between the Wildman and the Toronto off the
great great battles going on there there's such a love-hate relationship Frank and Dave

(51:20):
work together then they didn't work together then they work together and they didn't work
together Frank rented Dave's ring the ring wouldn't show up then Frank was pissed and
it was it was on and on and on on and off I should say on and off on and off on and
off you know I've there's been reports of Dave McKinney speaking to the newspaper saying

(51:41):
I wouldn't work for Tony I wouldn't work for crock and I wouldn't work for those crooks
you know they're blah blah blah blah blah and and and you know it's like the wrestling
business Andy two weeks later oh we need a ring and bring your bear and well and the
money's right the prices oh we're friends now so yeah it's it's it's they promoted against

(52:04):
each other a few times Dave lost the big ones but he won all the little ones and it's funny
because they tried to Dave promoted in varsity arena in Toronto 1971 September with a really
big card he had Mulligan Blackjack Mulligan who came from Montreal he had the Hollywood

(52:24):
Blondes who came from Montreal he had some guys from Pittsburgh come up for the show
and it was a it would have been a great show but he picked a Sunday night to go up against
Frank Tunney and his show like all probably all five miles away I may believe gardens

(52:45):
Dave lost his shirt massively Frank just jam-packed his show with people and and it was it was
a loss a complete loss but he didn't stop because he knew that I guess he just felt
that he was going to be the promoter in the area that wasn't Frank and in London Ontario

(53:06):
Frank had started dwindling down his cards in about 72 73 they were weekly cards in London
Ontario during the school season so September to June and then they were once every two
weeks then it was once a month and then it was only in the summer they changed that and

(53:26):
Dave saw that opportunity to rent the biggest arena in London which was the London Arena
I think it held about 4,000 people and was packed for wrestling and because Dave shows
were wild Dave shows were exciting they weren't there was no Lee Hennings or any 50 year old

(53:47):
guys going through the motions on his card they were actually packed and and he he actually
started winning London and he won London and he promoted over a hundred shows in London
over his career and Dave Frank tried a couple times to come back and just just wasn't the
same okay let's stay on that topic for a second because that's one of the most common

(54:12):
myths misconceptions that I find is that you know when you look online you look what people
are saying on message boards or whatever they'll often refer to the McKinney shows as as the
retirement tours if you will but that's not at all what they were the McKinney tours were
often featuring a lot of a lot of up-and-coming a lot of young talent and it's interesting

(54:34):
to hear you talk about you know selling out 4,000 or selling a 4,000 seat arena in London
right another misconception that we often hear is that McKinney was running these you
know three four hundred seat pavilions arenas whatever you want to call them and that's
simply not the case and that's that's maybe one of the more common misconceptions that

(54:56):
I see what are you able to find in your research in regards to one the types of talent that
the wild man was using and two the amount of fans that he was drawing in Ontario specifically
but maybe let's go more broadly speaking in Eastern Canada.
So you know Andy when Frank Tunney was coming to town they would pay for the ad and a couple

(55:25):
of write-ups before the show and they would pay for a spot for the results and Dave wouldn't
usually pay for the results he just paid for the ads and so over the years there was less
and less and less results and less facts for sure about his shows unless it was a town

(55:46):
that hadn't seen wrestling for a long time.
In London he had a lot of press and I'm not gonna you know candy-coat things sometimes
they were great shows sometimes they weren't the greatest shows guys never showed up or
anything but yeah in London Ontario he was packing them in it was a sellout every two
weeks in the summertime Tony Marino Tony Precierac the red he had the big the big K who would

(56:14):
have been a star in the AWA had come out to Ontario for the two summers in a row.
Danucci was there for a while his his reach had started coming and that was one of the
times when he started pulling in big guys from around he got Gorge George jr. in 1971

(56:34):
from the mid-Atlantic area and came in for the whole season and it was it was marvelous
and yes Andy there's no doubt that he may have hit a town and the weather was bad or
this or that and yeah he maybe only sold 400 tickets and I've seen the results on some

(56:54):
shows where he maybe didn't make any money but the you know if you're if you're playing
an arena every two weeks and you're selling out two three four thousand tickets you're
making money hand over fist and back in the day his tickets were a dollar fifty two dollars
and three dollars for ringside so four thousand people that an average of even two dollars

(57:18):
is a lot of money.
Yeah the time frame as well is something that people seem to overlook because you know you're
looking at like you said ringside was two bucks or whatever it may be maybe it's two
fifty even and and your expenses are not now what they what they would be in today's day

(57:41):
and age if you will so it is it is interesting that you know the fact that you're bringing
up that you you know you could sell out you you could have the two thousand people or
whatever and do very well for yourself and then keep doing that every two weeks and continue
to build the business rep.
That's something that I think is overlooked as well quite a bit in the in the now now

(58:06):
now everything's now in wrestling research if you will and I use that term very loosely
because there's not a lot of that done nowadays as you very well know.
Maybe let's let's back off of that aspect a little bit and let's talk about just the
reach of the Wildman tours because I think that's something that's overlooked as well.

(58:30):
Can you go into a little bit of detail about you know what would a typical run of the Wildman
tour look like?
Well Andy I have I call it a database it's not a database it's a it's a book it's an
old book it's like a school book and I started doing it I don't know about 20 something years

(58:55):
ago writing down his arenas that he booked in the dates and I just kept adding and adding
and adding and adding and adding and adding I'm still and I still added actually five
new dates like just last week so it's never going to stop but the book page is jam-packed
and I'm squeezing another date in somewhere and writing the city down in the main event

(59:20):
and there's no more room on most of the pages. In the summer of 1974 when Archie Goldie came
and headlined for him throughout Ontario they didn't I don't think they stopped I don't
think they stopped Archie showed up on I think May 6th and he left on September the 4th I
think and they I think they went every night throughout the whole summer every night and

(59:43):
that I had a get together in my house about five or six years ago and I had a map of Ontario
on the wall and that's some pictures of the wild man and his crew and I had a map and
I highlighted all the cities and towns that he had wrestled in that I knew of back then
and the map was practically covered because there wasn't very many places he didn't go

(01:00:04):
I mean I don't I can't put it into any perspective because where we live now there's just not
the population so you could say if someone lived in New York upper New York State he
hit Fredonia he hit Ellicottville he hit Olean he hit Tana Wanda he hit Grand Island he hit

(01:00:26):
Niagara Falls New York he hit Lewiston I mean he hit Rochester it just it just didn't stop
and it just a circle went round and around and around.
And that's something else that I think a lot of people don't realize too is you know a
lot of people will focus on may believe wrestling would do you know this town this night this

(01:00:52):
town this night this town this night and repeat right whereas the Wildman Tours was very much
everywhere right there was it was in a set schedule and that's kind of what I'm that's
what I'm getting at right it's he didn't just it wasn't the same thing over and over and
over I think maybe that's why he was so successful in all of these towns is because he was bringing

(01:01:16):
them something that they didn't see because nobody else was going there.
And I think that that that's something that we need to understand as well is that he was
bringing a product to people who otherwise would not have access to this product and
then you have to think the time frame as well you know we're talking about a time where

(01:01:38):
cable TV is not a thing very much like almost at any of Ontario at that time I don't think
we live in Manitoba it's a little bit different here population wise but like back then in
Ontario the population was still you know what would it have been 10 million.

(01:01:59):
Yeah farming communities didn't have cable farming communities lucky if they had two
stations like you said around here back in the early 70s there was no ice in the arenas
so guess what they were empty and I've read in the book and I've the book Drawing Heat
believe me Andy I've read I swear to God 10,000 times I've read every line in between every

(01:02:25):
line and in between those lines to put a perspective on it and I don't claim to be an expert or
anything it just I've read so much and I've imagined so much because I've practically
got inside his head by putting myself in that spot putting myself sitting shotgun in his
truck driving from town to town and they would go and they would say like oh jeez we haven't

(01:02:51):
been to oh yeah well we don't go there in the early summer because they don't have all
the immigrants there collecting the corn or the tobacco or the whatever crops that were
coming due so that was he never wrestled in Simcoe in the early summer but in Simcoe Ontario
in the late summer he'd go every week so there was no there was a schedule for some places

(01:03:16):
but not very many I mean the poster crew was probably busy I remember talking to one of
the guys who worked on the poster crew and they said they had probably two or three hundred
pounds of posters in their cars and they were on the road all summer long like two weeks
ahead of the tour.

(01:03:38):
Yeah which I could definitely see because that's really the only way you could you could
get around the just the pure logistical way of doing it back then right again there's
no fax machines ain't a thing internet ain't a thing right it's not happening like that
okay so we've kind of covered his the tours unless there's anything that I missed specifically

(01:04:03):
you want to talk about the tours.
You did mention the East Coast and he went to the East Coast a couple times so that was
more in the 80s yeah things weren't going well here there's another thing with Frank
and Dave that when the insurance premium started going up in the late 70s supposedly Frank
lent him his insurance bond for a cost and then something probably happened somewhere

(01:04:30):
and like I said there's not reports on every car that happened in every little town so
we don't know you know the bear could have got loose you know could have been a million
things right we you know we know how Berserk the Sheik was on some of his shows and he
zipped some guy in I think Meaford Ontario which is up near Owen Sound and he got he

(01:04:55):
got taken to court and it was on a day it was on a Wildman show so you know the bond
was gone Dave was guys Dave's regular guys were getting older and he and Phil Watson
went down East and I think it was 80 80 I have it in my book but it was in the early

(01:05:20):
80s and they they tried to weasel in on the East Coast promotions and they had a few guys
come over to work for them that were working down there and they had a they had but they
had a shut schedule he knew where he was going way before he even got down there but and
then of course there was another tour in the later 80s in mid 80s and then there was the

(01:05:42):
unfortunately fateful tour in 88.
Now the insurance thing is an interesting topic and maybe this is a good time to you
know we'll get into some bear conversation now because there are two there are two big
stories about the bears that are our legend one infamously for for one reason and one

(01:06:05):
is kind of a kind of a humorous one if you will so you know maybe we'll start with the
humorous one first and the humorous one that I'm talking about is is the three thousand
dollar pin ten challenge here you're familiar with this yeah okay it's been going on forever
yes and oh okay so so maybe talk to me about I believe it was 19.

(01:06:27):
1966 what happened with the three thousand dollar pin the ten challenge that the chap
in Ottawa said he pinned the bear and as we as we found out I don't what's the word that
it's implying it's a possibility to pin a bear because it has round shoulders and around

(01:06:48):
back so you you'd actually have to be strong enough to pick the whole bear up and and pin
him like a cradle pin and and supposedly someone did it and Dave never coughed up the money
and took him to court and Dave won because he you know I know you can't pin a bear which
is just wild there's there's also unfortunately another thing that was really interesting

(01:07:14):
and I have a lot of information on this was when the bear got arrested in Georgia in yes
please please go into depth on that one as well so and this is straight from a Beverly
Shade who worked for Dave and it was her she was working on the card her husband had her

(01:07:34):
were promoting outlaw promoting in Florida and they booked Dave in I think it's Lacoste
Georgia and they went downstairs someone went downstairs and the cops got scared of the
bear because they've never seen one before and the cops said that bear tried to bite
him the bear was arrested he spent a week in jail I mean it's just berserk right there

(01:08:02):
was actually pictures in the Associated Press throughout North America of Dave on the phone
phoning his lawyer and he obviously got like gazillions worth of promotion from that but
yeah it's it's it's strange I have a I have we can talk about this a little bit after

(01:08:23):
some of the things that I have that I can't show and I'll tell you why a little later
but I have lots of stuff on that which is kind of a personal thing from someone else
and it's it's it's got to remain secret for the time being but we can talk about it all
we want yeah it's just it's bizarre and you got to figure in the 60s southern states anything

(01:08:46):
could happen right and yeah they arrested the bear David to throw up like a thousand
bucks to get the bear out of jail and he probably went back in the area two weeks later and
probably booked the bear in every single arena he could get and probably made the money back
ten times right now one of the more disturbing bear stories obviously the story of all things

(01:09:08):
smoky so I don't know how you want to approach this one but it's something you got to talk
about so yeah if you want to get into this one or I can it's up to you I'm not sure it's
it's a terrible terrible story it's a what I've read what I've heard it was just a pile
of misfortunate situations that just piled on top of each other and the next you know

(01:09:34):
there's a tragedy you know it was a tragedy obviously terrible Ted was supposedly in a
tree that's where you like to hang out Dave is cleaning out the pens and smoky for whatever
reason went in the house and like just crushed Lynn Orser to death and excuse me it's it's

(01:09:56):
it's so movie like it's hard to believe even Andy it's hard to believe I was in the house
myself I saw the window where the bear came through I saw where Dave the area actually
right where Dave smashed the couch over the bears back I saw the pen is it was surreal
it was just bizarre because in our world of how we are now you've mentioned this a couple

(01:10:22):
times in the quick pace now now now world anything that's like that is it can't be
true it must be a movie it must be not real it must be like a video game it must be like
something that can't really happen and and and Jesus it happened it was like 1977 and
it happened and the lady died because of a bunch of circumstances that turned into a

(01:10:45):
tragedy now obviously I don't want to end us on that note so maybe can you without going
into too much detail what do you have that you want to talk about but you can't show
like what's what's under wraps because now you've piqued my interest and I got to know
what you what you have what you but it's kind of in your vault if you will we well three

(01:11:08):
years ago three and a half years ago I got a call from a man who said he was a documentary
maker I asked like okay he goes like senior Wildman Facebook page and you know can we
talk about maybe putting a project together and believe me Andy I was like what what I

(01:11:33):
I swear to God I got off the phone and I googled this guy right away and the guys a documentary
producer and he just phoned me and he wants me to help him with a documentary on the wildman
I was like I shit myself I was like crazy like couldn't believe it but on the same note
the book drawing heat I knew about that about a year and a bit a year and a half in advance

(01:11:57):
and I didn't really believe that it was going to happen I thought well maybe that'd be great
my friend Terry Dart who was in the book drawing heat he had given me an advance part of the
manuscript told me all about the book being put out that but it was taking a long time
to get put out because he had to find a publisher and everything the same with this documentary

(01:12:21):
I was privy to a bunch of personal stuff of Dave's that it's not really right to share
if it comes out in the documentary and it's not Venice mind to share the movie is still
in the works and if it ever comes to pass that'll be great and if it doesn't I'm going

(01:12:41):
to give it some time and then I will just release what I have personally it's nothing
earth-shattering it's nothing it's not going to change the world it's just a lot of information
that I think a lot of people that are on the wild man page which Andy is like over 1200
people now they would like to see they would like to know about and it's just little tidbits

(01:13:06):
of this little tidbits of that some legal documents and a few other things that are
really kind of part of the story if there were things about the wild man that you think
that people should know or should look into what would those things be that's good question

(01:13:29):
I think that they should look into what we talked about earlier and his whole career
his everything that he did not I'm not delving into it deeply but looking at a guy that became
just Andy he got he was a bit of a joke at one time it was a joke in Ontario like he's

(01:13:50):
bringing another show to wherever oh god Bobo Jesus you know Bobo and the Sheik who wants
to see Bobo and the Sheik but it that was he turned himself a little bit into a bit
of a second rate person I think you know it's not always rosy the life your life is not

(01:14:13):
always rosy my life isn't always rosy and geez his life wasn't always rosy either so
there's aspects of his career that were fantastic and I think that's great but you have to remember
that yeah there was parts of his promoting career that that sucked I mean his live-in
girlfriend got killed by a bear and then he died on the highway and he's doing what he

(01:14:37):
loved so an unbelievably tragic life but spectacular as in having been a professional wrestler
for over 30 years now why don't you go ahead and tell me what during all of whether it's
your research or or things you've seen or things you've read tell me tell me something

(01:15:02):
that's jumped out at you from either his life or his career that's something that's really
stood out to you as like like a real hallmark moment if you will a real something that something
that you saw and immediately drew you into him I I think this is kind of kind of a soft
answer any to see the Sheik now I didn't go to see the Sheik at Maple Leaf Gardens and

(01:15:30):
I'm glad I didn't because you're sitting in with 16,000 other people and yes it would
have been exciting and everything but it just wouldn't have been the same when I bought
a ticket to go to a Wild Man show to see Louis Martinez and the Sheik in the main event and
the Sheik walked by me like five feet from me and then him and Martinez were wrestling

(01:15:52):
five feet from me throwing each other around the crowd that was worth everything that was
that was the penultimate moment for me he brought the Sheik into places where people
had only heard about him maybe not even if they weren't complete wrestling fans they
didn't even look at the wrestling magazines but they knew who the Sheik was and to to

(01:16:14):
let's put it into perspective of Manitoba a place like Ildeshen they have a half decent
size arena there and Dave would have booked that arena and those fans in that area could
have went and seen the Sheik and up close and personal right there you could smell the
blood you could see the sweat like pouring off him because they were five five feet away

(01:16:38):
from you just ridiculously exciting ridiculously exciting no doubt about it bar none nothing
else compares to being that close to such a famous wrestler and you wouldn't have got
that experience of the dot for McKinney right like 100% and it was everywhere every arena

(01:17:01):
where the Sheik was when he was working with him those people were going to see that and
get that that that thrill that just pumping of their adrenaline by being five feet or
ten feet away from the Sheik and even if they were sitting in the stands most people would
run down to ringside anyways because there was no control whatsoever there was no ropes
there was no around the ring there was nothing I mean if he pulled the chair up from beside

(01:17:24):
you ran right but was there anything that we didn't touch on tonight that you want to
say or to make sure makes air on this program I think that for an unknown outside of Ontario
because basically as general fan he's an unknown guy out of Ontario other than his posters

(01:17:50):
but the lure of his promotion as people get to learn about it and to know that Sullivan
worked there Lewin worked there yes Brazil yes the Sheik Andre the Giant worked for him
close to 50 times over the years Archie Golding worked there the list went on and on and on
the guys from Montreal Carpensia would have worked for him Henshmit would have worked

(01:18:13):
for him just Rougeau's worked for him they unbelievable that Mad Dog Vachon worked for
Dave and Sudbury once I mean Zabisco worked for him Danucci Ivan Koloff came down once
when he was in the WWA the Black Jacks just unbelievable amount of talent coming to his

(01:18:34):
his I call him his small towns in Ontario and it wasn't just a fluke it wasn't just
a thing he had like a massive promotion with no TV no internet no cable no nothing just
posters and newspaper ads so and word of mouth so if I was going to say anything I would

(01:18:59):
like people to if I can on your show tell people about the Facebook page because there's
over eight years of stuff on that page that's going right from everything to anywhere and
it's just the Wild Man tribute page on Facebook and I've been doing it like I said for close
to eight years now and it's it's it's what I wake up every morning thinking about well

(01:19:25):
what about this what about that maybe I should put a poster on today or whatever and it's
I it's so exciting and interesting to me to teach people about his promotion and I really
appreciate you giving me this opportunity to talk about him because then we're going
to even teach even more people about him.

(01:19:58):
This has been your episode of Grappling with Canada.
This episode was written researched produced and recorded by me Andy the Taxman.
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(01:20:19):
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(01:20:44):
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