Uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper Part Two - "...And I'm All Out Of Bubblegum!!" - Grappling With Canada

Episode Transcript
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(02:43):
I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass.
And I'm all out of bubble gum.
Oh shit!

(03:10):
Near the entrance, has a shotgun.
Previously on Grappling with Canada.
The reason I got to know Rod was because one day I got a mock in my back door.

(03:32):
And they had Rod with them and they said hey Cam, you're a pretty tough guy and you got Rod pretty tough, why don't you have a fight?
So I said sure.
We're at Madison Square Garden and it's almost time for Piper to go on.
He's in a bathroom stall self-medicating.

(03:54):
All of a sudden he looks up and sees a pair of hands at the top of one side of the stall
and a pair of hands at the other side of the top of the stall.
And then some man looks over one side and Pat Patterson looks over the other side and they see what's going on.
And Piper looks up from what he's doing and he says, see that house out there?
We're drawing, that means I'm doing my job.

(04:16):
And the house is off.
Hello everyone and welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
To Grappling with Canada, but more importantly, welcome back to our ongoing series, uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper.

(04:45):
I'm your host, as usual, The Taxman.
And I want to thank everybody for the tremendous response that I got for part one of uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper.
If this is your first time checking out Grappling with Canada, welcome to the program.
You probably want to maybe put this one on pause and go back and listen to part one, uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper.

(05:14):
And that program, I was joined by three tremendous guests where we were able to uncover a lot of information from Rowdy Roddy Piper's backstory
that has either never been told or reported on before.
Much of that came from Cam Conner and Vance Devada.
Vance Devada was also instrumental in setting straight many of the, shall we say,

(05:41):
innuendo-laden aspects of Rowdy Roddy Piper's career, specifically his early career.
And I felt that we did an excellent job last month really laying the groundwork for what we are bringing to everybody in this month's episode.
Also want to make mention in that episode, I was very pleased to be joined by Canadian historian Craig Baird for some tremendous conversation on small town Canada.

(06:10):
So once again, if this is your first time to Grappling with Canada, you probably want to hit this one on pause,
go back and listen to part one of uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper and then hop right into this part, part two of this incredible series.
Also, if this is your first time joining the program or if last month was your first time joining Grappling with Canada, welcome to the program.

(06:37):
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(06:59):
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If you leave a written review, I make sure to read it on the next available podcast.
By the way, I have a tremendous five-star review that I'm going to read later on in today's program.
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(07:29):
Speaking of which, you can also check out this show on YouTube, youtube.com slash c slash Six-Sided Podcast.
Go ahead and hit the subscribe button there.
We are slowly scratching and clawing our way to a thousand subscribers on there.
Every little bit helps.
So once again, youtube.com slash c slash Six-Sided Podcast is where you can find this program.

(07:54):
But the easiest way to go about all of that, simply check the show notes of this episode for the Linktree link where you can find all the different ways to listen to this podcast as well as ways to support the show.
You can support the show via the tip function jar on Good Pods.

(08:15):
You can also directly donate to the program via PayPal.
And you can buy me a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash grappling.
All of those avenues directly support this program, which allows me to further intensely research and bring more stories to you guys that otherwise are going to be, quite frankly, lost to the sands of time.

(08:42):
More on that a little bit later.
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There's stickers, whatever the whole shebang is on.
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(09:04):
Thank you, everybody, who's been purchasing shirts off that program.
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So those are all the wonderful ways to support this program.

(09:26):
Once again, the support that you guys provide means a lot to me, but it also provides the ways that I can further dig into Canadian professional wrestling history and really bring some of the stories of the past out.
This episode is not so much an example of that.

(09:49):
More on that a little bit later.
But upcoming episodes are going to be, and certainly episodes in our archives, such as the Jack Taylor episode specifically, and the George Gordienko episode, take a lot of time, a lot of resources, some of which are financial resources to fully develop, fully research and dig into.

(10:16):
So any support that you guys are able to help with would help me tremendously in production of this program.
But the reason that we're all here today, part two of our uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper series.
If you've tuned into part one, then you'll know that that was really a deep dive into Roddy Piper's early life, how he grew up in small town Western Canada, how he truthfully got into the wrestling business, how his career progressed, the friendships that he made along the way, and really how his personal life developed along the way.

(11:01):
And the three tremendous guests that I had on that episode really did an excellent job, I think, of highlighting all of the aspects that I just laid out in great detail last month.
So once again, if you have not checked out part one of uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper, I highly suggest that you would put this one on pause.

(11:24):
Go back, listen to that one.
It'll set you up much better for our discussions today.
There is one similarity between that episode and this one.
And that similarity is tremendous guests.
Today I'm joined by two guests who are going to speak on very different aspects of the continuing Rowdy Roddy Piper story.

(11:49):
Now, today's story is really going to focus on the pop culture iconism of Rowdy Roddy Piper. And to really illustrate that, I'm joined by two incredible guests, one of which, Stephen Jackson is one of the contributors to the wrestling estate.
He's also a contributor to Monthly Peruso.

(12:11):
I'm probably butchering the way that that is pronounced. However, he's one of the best, in my opinion, wrestling writers out of the UK.
So he's going to give us really the international view of the pop culture rise of Rowdy Roddy Piper inside of the WWF.

(12:32):
I want to preface a bit of this conversation with a couple of things.
Obviously, there's a whole wide range of Rowdy Roddy Piper's wrestling career that was highly influential in wrestling in the certain markets that he was in, namely Portland, Los Angeles, among others.

(12:53):
There are tremendous stories of Rowdy Roddy Piper in those markets.
Incidents like him causing a riot and getting stabbed and having to be driven to the hospital, almost losing his life.
Incidents like the infamous dog collar match that specifically has just come up in recent wrestling on AEW.

(13:14):
They made mention of that, for example.
Although those are highly influential moments and incidents in professional wrestling,
today's conversation is really going to center on the pop culture impact of Rowdy Roddy Piper.

(13:35):
I would highly suggest that people go out of their way to dig into those incidents, those aspects of Rowdy Roddy Piper's life.
A lot of those can be found on ProWrestlingStories.com. They've done some tremendous articles on those, for example.
So rather than kind of get bogged down in the whole wrestling aspect, although we do touch on that in terms of the WWF,

(14:02):
we're really going to focus our conversation on the pop culture aspect of Rowdy Roddy Piper's wrestling career, which obviously was tied very heavily with the WWF.
So Stephen Jackson is on the ride for that tremendous conversation today.
And I'm happy to be bringing back a guest who starred for our Abdul the Butcher episode, Ead, all the way from Bahrain.

(14:33):
Ead and myself have a tremendous conversation on pop culture icon Rowdy Roddy Piper in terms of acting.
Specifically, his television and film career, as well as many other aspects of his career that are falling or that would fall outside of the wrestling aspect of Rowdy Roddy Piper.

(14:58):
So we have some great conversations about what he accomplished outside of wrestling, how it tied into wrestling at the time, and essentially how he was running four careers at once at certain points of his life.
Again, tremendous conversations that are really going to further shape the story of our Rowdy Roddy Piper episodes.

(15:21):
But these two guests specifically, because they have the international eyes, I think that they bring a much different view than my three guests from last month who are all Canadian,
but also give a different perspective than somebody who would be from North America watching these events take place in real time or even after the fact, you know, 2020 hindsight, if you will.

(15:51):
So I'm really excited for the conversations that we're going to get to today.
I also have some incredible voice memos that were left from some individuals who had some Rowdy Roddy Piper stories that we're going to be sharing on today's program.
Obviously, we're going to have some classic Rowdy Roddy Piper film audio as well and some audio from a very infamous incident that occurred on one of the, shall we say, wrestling programs that Rowdy Roddy Piper was involved in later on in his wrestling career.

(16:36):
We are going to get to all of that. My tremendous conversations, some classic audio and some fun little segments spliced in throughout this conversation today.
But first, let's get a little bit of classic audio from Rowdy Roddy Piper.

(16:58):
This little bit of audio comes to us from the cult classic, They Live. On the other side, a little voice memo guest spot, if you will.
And then my tremendous conversation with Steven Jackson from the Wrestling Estate. I really hope you guys enjoy.

(17:21):
There are no limits. It figures would be something like this.
Excuse me.
You know, you look like a head fell in the cheese dip back in 1957.
You, you're okay.

(17:43):
This one, real can ugly.
Oh, you see, I take these glasses off. She looks like a regular person, doesn't she? Huh? Put them back on from Mel the hide face. That's what we got.
That's enough out of you. You get out or I call the cops.
Call the cops. You know what you need? You need a Brazilian plastic sergeant.
I've got one that can see.

(18:14):
He's a tall Caucasian male. It doesn't appear armed wearing sunglasses.
I don't like this one bit. Not one bit.
Hello, Mr. Taxman. B.C. here. Longtime listener, first time caller. Huge fan of the show. Really appreciate you let me speak on this matter.

(18:35):
Memories of Roddy Piper. I grew up as a fan of Atlantic Grand Prix wrestling when I was young in the early 80s.
Didn't know about WWE or WWF at the time until about 1985 when I started seeing Hulk Hogan's Rockin' Wrestling.
And I saw this crazy character, cartoon character on that by the name of Rowdy Roddy Piper.

(19:00):
And lo and behold, after watching that, the actual WWF wrestling came on.
And I got to see this being early 86. It would have been late 85, early 86 leading up to WrestleMania 2.
And you had the heel, Roddy Piper, going up against the face, Mr. T in a boxing match.

(19:24):
Which didn't end up being such a great match, but it fit with the Roddy Piper style and the way that it ended.
But when you talk about my most vivid memory of Piper, I don't feel comfortable even talking about this one,
but it's 6 because it's the first time I remember really seeing him. It was right before WrestleMania 2.

(19:45):
Of course he was in a match, a boxing match with Mr. T as I mentioned.
At the time, Mr. T had a, I know this isn't the politically correct term, but this is what they called it back then, a midget wrestler.
The Haiti Kid that was a supporter of Mr. T. And I remember Roddy Piper and Bob Orton abducting the Haiti Kid from the wrestling ring,

(20:10):
bringing them onto the set of Piper's pit, and they decided, well first they were giving them grief for being a fan of Mr. T,
but then they decided they were going to give him a Mr. T haircut. And I remember Orton holding them,
Piper putting the wrist tape over his mouth, and then shaving a mohawk into his head.
And being a 10 year old kid watching that at the time, I remember being freaked out about just what the heck is going on,

(20:38):
just how scary it was for me, and just vividly remembering, my god, are they going to cut him with these clippers?
It was just freaked me out, but it was just such a dastardly heel move by Roddy Piper that got him a ton of heat going into that match,
and it just goes to show he was fearless when it came to getting heat. And I just was blown away by this guy.

(21:04):
And throughout most of 86, he then had the face turn of Piper, which is unbelievable when you think about it.
The fact that he went from shaving a mohawk into this wrestler's head, and all of a sudden he is a face,
but that's the way of wrestling, and that's how over he was, and that's how good he was.
But yeah, that was a vivid memory for me. That was scarring at the time, but it is always going to stay in my mindset.

(21:30):
Thanks again, man. I really appreciate you for letting me contribute to the show,
and really enjoying these episodes, and best of luck going forward.
All right, everyone. It's an absolute pleasure to be joined on the line today.
Way across the pond, a good friend of the old show and of the new one, a good friend of mine, Stephen Jackson.

(21:51):
Steve, how are you doing?
I'm doing really well, thank you. I can't believe, taxman, that it's been over two years since we last spoke on the old show,
and when you invited me on, and when you messaged me and said you'd like me to come on as well,
I just jumped at the chance. I can't wait. Thank you so much for letting me join you on the show.

(22:12):
Some fans, although the audience of this program far and away exceeds the audience that I ever had for the old Impact Wrestling program,
that's what we're alluding to here, but for anybody who's not familiar with yourself, Steve,
can you just take a minute and explain your kind of relationship with wrestling,
and then also what you were up to with the wrestling estate?

(22:34):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I've been a fan of wrestling for over 20 years now.
It's like a life sentence kind of thing.
But yeah, I remember watching very early on WCW when I was about six or seven years old,
because we didn't have Sky TV. Anyone here in the UK knows Sky TV.

(22:58):
You had to kind of like satellite TV. You had to pay for it, but WCW was available on like terrestrial TV.
So that was kind of my first introduction to wrestling.
And although I'd seen kind of like the WWE home videos and things, it wasn't until kind of the early 2000s
when I was able to, and when we got a computer as well, able to kind of access more of the world of wrestling.

(23:22):
So I had more immediate access to things like, you know, WWE at that point, Impact.
We had the wrestling channel over here in the UK as well.
So there was things from Japanese wrestling and Lucha Libre.
So, you know, I know what was really hot at the time.
Vintage tapes of frontier martial arts wrestling, so FMW, you know, all of Japan.

(23:50):
And it kind of just was a bit of a snowball effect really.
And it all just kind of melded into this 20 year love of the industry.
Yeah. But my main love has always been the 90s,
partly just because of the nostalgia of that era from watching it for the first time.
But I think also just the, I think it was that moment where, like we'll touch on in the episode,

(24:16):
it looked like with the progression of the pop culture movement in that you couldn't move without,
you know, the WWF having some kind of merchandise or WCW having some kind of merchandise.
You know, it was just kind of wrestling was really, you know, everywhere.
You know, it was such a phenomenon in a sense.
So I feel very blessed that I came into wrestling at a point where it was so exciting

(24:38):
and got to see so much wrestling as well.
And I've seen so much over the past 20 years, you know, both current and retrospective.
You know, I feel very, very lucky.
Wrestling estate wise, yeah, I'm still regularly writing for the wrestling estate.
I recently wrote an article about the recent GCW pay-per-view, the World On GCW,

(25:06):
which was really fun, a short piece, but I hope you all go and read it.
I really like what GCW have done in terms of they've kind of filled the void
with a lot of the independent scene kind of lost.
And it was a really big moment for them to be able to sell out.
I mean, I've never seen the Hammerstein Ballroom so full, even like when ECW were there.

(25:28):
It was ridiculous.
Yeah, that's right.
The show may have not necessarily been to everyone's tastes in terms of match quality,
but I think the achievement in terms of what they've got in terms of sales and buzz,
I think outweighs that.
So yeah, like there's more articles coming and the love for writing wrestling still there

(25:49):
and the love for watching it and, you know, podcasting about it.
You know, I'm just again so privileged today to be on the show with Taxman.
It's great.
Honour once again.
Well, we're going to have a ton of fun today.
Obviously, everybody knows by this point that we're naturally in part deep,
if you will, into part two of the Roddy Piper career retrospective, if you will.

(26:12):
So and there's a few reasons that I wanted to have you specifically on the program.
One is obviously your extensive knowledge of 80s and like you just said,
the 90s as well, professional wrestling is kind of the period
that we're going to focus the majority of our conversation on here today.
But also and this is the case with many of the other authors

(26:35):
and writers that have had in the program, you know, ones like Bertrand de Baer
or, you know, Javier Oist or whoever you go on down the list, right?
It's getting people who present the fair side of professional wrestling.
And I've always felt that your articles, regardless of what it is,

(26:56):
and again, admittedly, GCW is not my thing, but I think you did an excellent job
as well of discussing the pros and cons.
And you lay the groundwork of how, you know, this promotion, yes, there was their hiccups.
Sure. But really, if that's their first big event, right.
So it's it's it's part of it's part of the game.
But it was a fair article along with the other ones that you've written.

(27:18):
So that's why I felt like getting you on the program would give a fair context
to much of the Roddy Piper discussion that we're going to have today.
And then the third reason is because as everyone can tell by your accent,
you're not from North America.
So it's I think especially more than anything is going to be fascinating
to get your perspective as somebody who is is from the UK.

(27:43):
What somebody like Roddy Piper meant not just to professional wrestling,
but the larger context of this program today and something you alluded to as well
is the pop culture iconism if of Roddy Piper.
So that these three reasons, amongst others, are why you're on the program.
And I'm thrilled that we're going to have a blast today.

(28:05):
Oh, thank you. I mean, I think the nice thing you said there is that I give kind of a fair representation of the industry.
I mean, I always try to do that.
You know, I'm just a fan at the end of the day. I don't kind of, you know, do anything.
What is derogatory? I think I always kind of give an optimistic.

(28:28):
Well, I say optimistic, but I'm very rarely focused on the negatives.
Yes.
I'm kind of very objective.
And regardless of if, you know, the way I always look at it is this is that the people who are,
especially during COVID, but the wrestlers and the talents who are going out there to entertain
as a, you know, sacrificing themselves in so many ways and that, you know, you've got to respect that for our entertainment.

(28:51):
And that's the way I always look at it.
So regardless of if, you know, I'm not necessarily a fan of somebody, I can still appreciate that they've gone out there and done that.
So, no, that means a lot. Thank you.
And I am really privileged to be able to talk about literally one of the genuine legends of the professional wrestling industry,
Roddy Piper today. So thank you.

(29:13):
And that's another interesting point that you just broke up.
And obviously this is something that's going to permeate kind of the thread of our discussion today is that aspect of somebody who's gone out,
you know, time after time and sacrifice their body and put themselves on the line and really done his best essentially to entertain the fans.
And for everybody who listened to part one of the Roddy Piper discussion that I had with three guests on that program,

(29:40):
that was really something that ran through the entire thread of that program as well is, you know, how Piper comes from small town Canada.
He works his way through, you know, all the trials and tribulations, you know, living on the street, you know, being a vagrant essentially to,
you know, really grinding his way through professional wrestling, the early stages of it to a superstardom to the movies.

(30:06):
But throughout all of this kind of machination of his career, he never loses sight, never did lose sight of the respect that he had for the consumer or the fan.
And you could. And that's to me. And I'm sure we're going to get into this, you know, quite a bit more in our conversation today.
But that's one of the more fascinating parts of the entire Roddy Piper story is how somebody like him can go through all of this,

(30:37):
achieve things that are astronomically mind blowing to, you know, myself specifically.
And I mean, other people like I can't imagine that level of acknowledgement, if you will, not to mention, you know, stardom and all that,
but still keeping a level head and still wanting at the end of the day to continually give back to the people that supported him.

(30:59):
Yeah. I mean, you know, his commitment to the industry and his commitment to his peers and stuff.
I think I think a lot of people say that like are a lot of people in wrestling, the biggest sort of contribution and the biggest achievement
you can have in the industry is the respect and the adulation of the people in the locker room.

(31:21):
And I think Roddy's contributions and his influence on, you know, the industry.
And I mean, even the thing is, is that now, you know, a lot of the people who are wrestling today have, you can tell,
have gone back and watched Roddy and everyone how to do particular things.

(31:46):
And but not just that, his kind of foothold in terms of, you know, his philosophies on the industry and his growing up in the industry,
but respecting it as a people, similarly as the way Brett Hart calls it, kind of like an art form.
Yes. But respecting the industry of professional wrestling, like the mystique, but also the kind of,

(32:17):
I don't want to say kind of entertainment aspect of it, but the show and not even showmanship, but just that kind of aura around it,
you know, where he was such a, he was a out of this world character and his, and we'll get into it obviously in the show,
but there are very few people who I have seen who are able to emote the emotion, both positive and negative,

(32:47):
that Roddy was able to gravitate and get the fans to react to and be able to be so instantaneous with the way he responded to events or to a situation
and understood the, and again, this is something we'll get into and a big part of his philosophy, but the psychology of the industry.

(33:09):
And I think that's something which a lot of, and even me as a fan for a long time, kind of, you hear that word psychology
and you think, what does that, even you hear it like in terms of Jake Roberts or Brett Hart or, you know, like Roddy Piper,
and you think, what does that mean? But when you see it in action, psychology is kind of the key to the whole thing.

(33:31):
And if you've got that, like Roddy had, it's the key to everything, I think. And that's what Roddy always had was he had that psychology
to know how to balance out the, doing his work, but also entertaining and giving back to the fans, I think.
I think that's the thing more than anything else. He always gave everything, whether it was physical or emotional or verbal,

(33:59):
out there to the fans. And you always feel that, like it never kind of feels forced.
And I think that's one of the genuine things about him, why it's always such a enjoyable experience to re-watch Roddy Piper
and why me, along with many people, miss him and that kind of influence in the industry.

(34:23):
I mean, I don't know about you, Taxman, but I remember reading about Roddy, we're kind of going quite far ahead here,
but I'm just saying that I remember when I found out it was just after Dusty Rhodes passed away, but when Roddy passed away,
and I was really, really caught about it after he'd obviously survived cancer and he'd gone through what he'd gone through physically
and emotionally, it was a sad time, you know, and a hole in the industry. I mean, did you feel the same?

(34:48):
Obviously you're Canadian as well, so did you feel kind of a, in Canada did it feel like that?
Like something quite significant happened in the wrestling industry?
It did and it didn't. And this is the weird, dichotomy might be an odd choice of word to use, but it might fit here.

(35:09):
But in Canada, we have this weird, and this is something that Craig Baird and myself kind of touched on in the last episode.
We have this weird, pseudo, you know, responsibility to our sports heroes.
So we are very quick to celebrate somebody, you know, at the time and then kind of, you know, I don't want to say forget about them,

(35:35):
but kind of let it, we don't continue that same level of celebration, right, until they pass away.
And then it's a fervent pitch for, you know, months, sometimes years, like, you know, in the case of Walter Gretzky, right,
it's years people are still talking about, you know, obviously Wayne Gretzky's father, when Gordie Howe passed away,

(35:58):
like some of these big, big, like massive names in sport, yes, it carries on and carries over, but there are some, unfortunately,
and Roddy Piper, I feel falls under this category where, you know, we, and some of this as well,

(36:19):
again, going back to my conversation with Craig Baird, right, it's because he was from Scotland for so many years, right?
So, and then there's so much of the population of Canada didn't realize where he was from, right?
Yes, we, here in Winnipeg, like he had the key to the city, right, he's in the Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame, you know, things like that.

(36:40):
We know here, people in Saskatoon knew that he was from there, but Canada as a whole didn't,
and we still have a big problem here in this country of the East-West thing, and we can go into a whole political hole,
but everybody don't think that this conversation is the time or place.
So, the long-winded way of me saying is there were large portions of the country that were crushed when he passed away,

(37:05):
and a side note to this conversation, so I have one of my good friends, here's another gimmick name, Postal Paul,
good friend of mine, but he always was a huge, huge, huge Roddy Piper, like he could tell you every word of every promo,
he knew every match, he pretty well every wrestlers, he knew everything, like just a massive fan, right?

(37:29):
And I had won, the year that Piper had passed away, I won, was it like a hockey, I think it was an NHL playoff pool or something like this, right?
So, I had a bunch of money like laying around, and I was on my online ventures, if you will, and I found a sweet Roddy Piper autographed poster,

(37:56):
it was not an 8x10, but something a bit bigger, I'm looking at this one right in front of me of the NWO,
and it's maybe it's like, it might be like 20x something, right? I'm not sure what the dimensions are,
but anyways, really nice size, it's framed, it's signed, it's got the authentication, everything, it's so nice.
So, I'm like, you know what, I have to get this, so I order it for my buddy, I don't tell him, right?

(38:22):
So, I order it, two days later Piper passes away, and we, a bunch of us went to Spanky's, which another great friend of mine,
and this is where the taxman nickname comes from, just a little peek behind the curtain for everybody, but anyways,
so we all go to Spanky's because we're choked, right? And like, there's a whole, there's probably like 20 of us, and we're just, it's horrible, right?

(38:50):
And so, I tell my buddy, I'm like, hey, I have something for you, I don't know when it's going to be here,
it might be a week or something, but like, it's related to Piper, and like, when it comes in, let's meet here, we'll have a drink and I'll give it to you.
So, he didn't quite like, he wasn't with it, because he's in shock, right, from Piper passing.

(39:12):
So, a couple days go by, it comes in the mail, I meet him at Spanky's, and give him the deal, and he's like in tears.
And it was like, it was him and a bunch of his like softball team, I think, and everybody, there were, you know, men, women, whatever,
people who never gave a damn about wrestling, but they knew how much Piper meant to pop culture, and meant it to, you know, especially our community here in Winnipeg,

(39:44):
and that to me, speaks more about, you know, how we physically felt the passing of Roddy Piper, rather than, you know, the articles, some written well,
some not researched very well, as I came to understand in my research for this program, but that to me, that was so powerful.

(40:08):
Of like, you know, it happens, there's like a bar full of people, right, and yes, we're, we know each other, but we're not like,
we're not all friends, but we're all there for the same reason. And we're not even connected to Piper, like we have no, we're not his friend, we're not like, you know what I mean?
Like, but that's just, that's the impact that he had on the people. And I think that that part of it still carries over.

(40:39):
And, you know, and we're here, and then it's neat to hear like, you know, how it was for you over there.
It's just, it's hard to put into words, how somebody can make you feel that level of, it's like, it's like, you know them, you know what I mean?

(41:02):
Yeah. But I never met him. I wish I would have, but I unfortunately never got the chance to.
But it just, here's this guy who translates over the screen, and you're just, yeah, shocked, shocked, and just, you know, heartbroken.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the thing, is he, they're very, I mean, the thing is, is that, you know, you look at the whole, the one thing about that period in wrestling,

(41:33):
it was before I was born, the eighties as we'll get into in a moment, but, you know, when people talk about jumping out of the TV screen, you know, everybody, everybody jumped out of the TV screen.
And, you know, like, I know people talk about, you know, Hogan and Andre, and, you know, then there's Hogan and Andorff, and Hogan and Bundy and stuff.

(41:54):
And I get all, and like Hogan and Savage, which was great. But for me, you know, it's always Hogan and Piper because you've got the blonde haired Hulk Hogan, good guy coming out to the real American hero,
and then you've got, you know, the evil Roddy Piper coming out, you know, with the cocky swagger and the dark hair, and, you know, the lashing of the tongue, and, you know, just the, it was more of the kind of,

(42:21):
the fighter as opposed to the kind of body build, the kind of physique, and, you know, he just, but his facial expressions and his mannerisms and his, again, his kind of philosophy and psychology of the industry just kind of made him

(42:43):
completely come out of the screen and it just made you, it was such a contrast to not just Hogan, but everybody. And he just knew how to, you were always gravitated towards him no matter what.
And more so now, when you watch him retrospectively, you just realize how, not just intelligent, but just how influential and how ahead of his time he was in terms of what he was doing and how he touched the fans because they loved to hate him.

(43:20):
And you hear that phrase, you love to hate somebody, but the respect he earned, and you see the, like, we'll get into it, but you see particular matches and the fans' reactions and stuff, and it really is kind of a wonderful thing to see that he,

(43:41):
the fans appreciated and respected what he did and, as we'll go on, you know, we'll speak about particular moments and things. And that was one of the things with me is that, you know, I respected his contributions in terms of that he always,
he lived, breathed and died in the wrestling industry because it was his life and especially in the 80s, the period we'll begin with, it was probably the most exciting and, you know, important period of his life essentially and made him the megastar,

(44:16):
what he became as we're talking about today, you know, like that's why we're speaking about him today, you know, and me here in the UK, you know, we're speaking about Roddy Piper if it wasn't for this 80s period we're going to begin with.
So, yeah, an incredible figure who just transcended, you know, outside of wrestling and sports and just touched people in a sort of film star and pop culture way, which I think is a great testament to his talent and him as a person.

(44:49):
So, yeah, I completely, and that's a wonderful story as well, you know, very privileged to have heard that firsthand here on the show, you as well, Taxman, thank you for, you know, saying that.
I apologize everyone for going long on that one and then I've also given up about three separate gimmicks in that same one, but no, you know what, it's, I don't know, in terms of that I'm not sure what else I can put a finer point on it, if you will, but yeah, and as we kind of progress today talking about, you know, his WWF run,

(45:28):
because obviously we, like you and myself and others who have been listening to this program, we've heard the stories of, you know, when he's in other territories and he's inciting riots, like when he's in LA and he's, you know, against the Guerreros and he's playing La Cucaracha on the bagpipes and people are trying to murder him,

(45:50):
or when he gets, you know, he's in, I think it was Portland and he gets, he gets almost stabbed to death because he's incited the fans and Sergeant Slaughter has to drive him to the hospital, he's bleeding out, right, like, like these, these things have been heard and the tales have been told over time,

(46:11):
but what happened in the WWF was kind of a perfect storm of the national exposure because of the national expansion. So then you, and you can actually see, I'll say worldwide, because I think it really was at that point, but the worldwide appeal and exposure of Piper and how he was able to translate what he had done for years

(46:40):
into really an international series of events, we'll see, I think it's the best way to say it.
And so, yeah, I agree. So, we had discussed, obviously, previous to this conversation, you know, how he, his first quote unquote run in the WWF happened, you know, in, in 1979 when he gets sandbagged by Blassey and others, and it doesn't go the way that he wants.

(47:07):
So he's gone for a few years after that. And I believe it was 83 is when McMahon contacted Piper to come back because he had heard, you know, what he's doing in the aforementioned places, right, LA is a big one.
And I believe at that time he was still, he was, I'm not sure if it was under contract specifically or if he just had dates with Crockett, but he finishes up his Crockett run and he moves over to the WWF in 84.

(47:38):
And it's interesting because obviously we know Piper, his in-ring career, we've seen the big matches, we've seen the history, but to me it's interesting the way he came in because he was hurt at the time, I believe, and came in as a manager to start off his WWF, we'll say, main run.

(48:02):
Yeah, that was after the brutal, I mean even now, you know, looking back at it, you know, the brutal dog collar match with Greg Valentine at the Stargate, like Jesus, you know, when you look at something, you talk about these violent matches in history and bloody, you know, bloody matches and things.

(48:24):
You know, we've heard about the eardrum being perforated and, you know, bleeding buckets and just an absolute war, you know, in terms of, a fight basically, you know.
Yes.
And he came in, yeah, he came in in 84 as, originally as a manager because obviously he was still recovering from the ear injury, so he kind of was coupled up with Paul Orndorff who, you know, obviously later on we'll get into him and Orndorff, main event at WrestleMania 1.

(48:59):
But I believe that from what I've heard, Vince McMahon Jr., not senior but junior, had seen a lot of the interview work what Roddy had done and realized, because at this point as well we need to, kind of going out of the pipe of story, but Vince was kind of coming, as you said, the worldwide sort of,

(49:27):
the World Wrestling Federation as a sense, so he's trying to get the best talent pool possible to be able to make this thing work out of New York.
So, you know, he's picked Hogan from the AWA and he needs a heel who can kind of, you know, generate the amount of heat to balance out with Hogan's popularity.
And Piper from when he saw him in the, sorry, in the NWA and the Crockett promotion had that, so he brought him in.

(49:58):
But then at that point, before he was able to, you know, obviously get in the ring and start wrestling, he was a manager but also started doing Piper's Pit, which obviously is the famous interview segment which kind of started the whole wrestlers being talk show hosts as we get now.

(50:19):
But the start of the whole kind of, you know, interview mini-segments for things like, you know, every one of them, whether it be the WWE or otherwise, you know, it's all been influenced by Piper's Pit, you know, some good, some bad.
But Piper was kind of the first person given that opportunity. And it was given, you know, one of the other things what Piper was given, which is kind of the whole, it's kind of unthinkable now, but he was really given free reign in the sense of that he was able to go out there, you know.

(51:02):
They weren't kind of doing scripts and they weren't doing sort of, you know, pre-taping of things and, you know, takes and stuff, you know.
Things were done for syndication and were done to be then put out, so you know, you'd be doing the schedule of taping of programmes and you might do like five or six episodes of Piper's Pit within the space of, you know, one taping.

(51:30):
So they're just throwing people and you just have to come up with something.
Yes.
You know, and we'll probably, and that was kind of, and that was kind of where he was able to build up that heel persona, what he became known for in the WWF, take it to another level, what he'd not even touched on in certain periods in some of his previous, you know,

(51:57):
territory work, you know, and I don't mean in terms of the riots and I don't mean in terms of that, but I mean some of his vocal work and some of his more sort of character work, you may say.
And I think the other thing with, you know, the whole Piper's Pit thing is that it literally was completely, you know, unmonitored in that no one knew.

(52:28):
It was a completely new thing. No one knew really what was going to happen, but also nobody really knew what to expect in the sense of from the production side of things.
Yes.
And they just sort of said, you didn't knew we could talk, so, you know, go out there and talk.
And I know from what I've heard as well, this kind of comes in something which we're going to discuss with Piper's Pit, but I know that because of his reputation in the industry, because he was very,

(53:03):
he had that kind of heat already from sort of the fans and stuff and he had a particular
seriousness about him in terms of the industry, you know, like we were talking before about treating it as an art.
I think he did come in with some kind of,
you want to use the word heat or like, you know, backstage heat, but I wouldn't, there was definitely an aura of people being threatened by, you know, this southern, this guy from the south coming in to the north and kind of taking their spot.

(53:39):
Yeah.
And he kind of noted that himself. Not everybody, but I know some people were kind of threatened.
And then obviously when Piper's Pit did start, it was an experience for him to be able to just be given free rein and just, you know, belittle people as much as possible.

(54:01):
And, you know, obviously the most famous example, which
has been replayed
for sort of decades since and probably the moment when Piper's Pit became the program of the segment it's become was the situation with Jimmy Snooker and the coconut.

(54:22):
Yes.
And I just, I want to pause that because this really plays into our bigger conversation about the pop culture aspect of Piper's. But before you get there, there's something you had brought up and I want to circle back to because it also circles back to a conversation that I had on last month's episode

(54:48):
of Vance Nevada and that is, you know, Piper coming in and some of the old guard being upset that he's there.
Everybody has to understand that this is, this is not the era of WWE of today where everybody's got a contract. They're all they're making X amount of dollars it's it's guaranteed.

(55:11):
It's you know you show up maybe you're in catering maybe you're on the show but whatever you're getting paid regardless.
Back in this era you're paid on gates you're paid on performance you're paid on all of the intangibles yeah you get.
I think their contracts it was like 25 bucks that's what they were guaranteed for a taping. But, but you you make your money on the crowds, essentially is what it boils down to.

(55:41):
And for someone like Piper, who is coming in well now, essentially, in the map in the minds of other established talents. He's taking food off their table, right, he's taking money out of their pocket. So yes, I don't think we can understate the fact that he's coming into a cutthroat environment.

(56:04):
And now you factor in, you factor in, you know, how he was sandbagged in his first quote unquote run it wasn't it was just five matches or whatever.
So, you still have some people who were there for that who are now in the ears of all this kid he's here again. Look what happened last time, etc etc right and we all know you know what's the old saying telephone telegraph tell a wrestler well this thing goes on and on and on right.

(56:32):
And so, so now Piper is there he's a marked man. Right there's there's no two ways about it if if Piper's pit was not a success. I don't think that his career goes anywhere close to where it ended up being, but because of his personality is perseverance and, and his assuredness and his

(56:56):
professionalism more than anything I think Piper's pit success right off the bat.
And like you said, right, we're still to this day there's still interview segments that are modeled after Piper's pit from 84 we're in 2022. Right, and they're still trying to recreate the magic and nobody's been able to but I think the reason that nobody's been able to is because Piper was

(57:22):
one of a kind. And that's something that we're going to obviously get into specifically now with our, you know, talk of the very famous incident that happened on one of the Piper's pits but this one specifically and I really want to dig into this one with you because, to me
this, this specific Piper's pit transcends wrestling. Right. This is pop culture, especially now. And now now with the advent of the internet and everything shareable and I mean I could go on, maybe I will when you're having our, when you're talking this one out

(58:01):
I'll go on YouTube and you see how many views it has for example but like this is something where it's bigger than wrestling.
And further to that, I think people knew it at the time, whether they wanted to admit it or not.
They knew it they for sure know it now.

(58:22):
And it just it feeds into this pop culture status of Piper that we're going to keep digging into but I know I'm getting ahead of myself and I want to get your thoughts on it.
Let's let's go over for those who may not know what in the world are we talking about with the Jimmy Snooker incident on Piper's pit.

(58:45):
So for those who don't know so Roddy Piper invited Jimmy Snooker, Jimmy Snooker was the guest on Piper's pit.
And part of the kind of antagonism of Jimmy Snooker, Roddy brought on a series of fruits implying that Jimmy Snooker was kind of the man of the jungle, kind of Tarzan.

(59:06):
So you know does he eat bananas, does he eat you know pineapples, does he eat you know mangoes, I can't remember off the top of my head but does he eat coconuts?
And you know Jimmy's kind of sat there and you can see him snarling and he's not impressed in the slightest.

(59:27):
And this is so we'll get into the other part but yeah so Jimmy sat there and you know Roddy's given his whole spiel and he you know picks up the coconut and you know kind of holds it in his hand.
And then he literally gets the coconut and just slams it against Jimmy Snooker's temple right in front of the camera to the point where Jimmy falls off the chair, table goes over, the whole Piper's pit set just falls apart because Snooker's basically been knocked out.

(01:00:08):
And Roddy's carrying on beretting Jimmy and then Roddy then has to run for his life because Jimmy Snooker is trying to kill him essentially.
Yeah it's, if you ever wanted to generate heat that, oh you ever want to, I will say this now and I say this a lot on podcasts but if you want to learn how to generate heat as a wrestler, watch that particular segment and just see how that whole thing pans out because that is a prime example of a wrestler getting heat not only with the fans but with their opponent as well or their antagonist.

(01:00:52):
We need to remember as well that at this point you know Roddy hasn't been in the company very long and Jimmy, this is pre, I don't know exactly if this is just after Hogan's won the belt or around that point so Jimmy Snooker is kind of the Hulk Hogan of the WWF because he was the guy who jumped off the cage in Madison Square Garden.

(01:01:18):
He's the star of New York essentially like Bruno and Jimmy held himself very seriously in that sense you know that he was a big star and it was a humiliation for him in terms of that he did hold himself in high regard in terms of the fans and how they perceived him to be you know genuinely knocked out by a coconut.

(01:01:47):
I like what Roddy did say and people again trying to recreate segments that particular coconut wasn't cut into beforehand, it wasn't gimmicked in inverted commas, it was a genuine coconut and he literally slammed the coconut into Jimmy Snooker's head and knocked him out like he gave him a concussion essentially with a coconut which you know talk about hardcore.

(01:02:15):
That's as hardcore as it comes and it definitely was a moment where you know like you were saying about pop culture it was that moment where there was a light bulb just went off and it's like Roddy is literally you know hot Rod he's completely out of control, he's not going to listen to anybody or he does what he wants you know the whole famous quotes were probably getting cut out.

(01:02:44):
He didn't give a damn and he you know got into people's faces and he you know didn't care about even like I mean I mean I know in terms of like sort of the industry and things but he literally was out for business and I don't mean this in terms of a derogatory sense but he was in business for himself.

(01:03:13):
He was in business for himself because it was do or die like you said he's going to show people that he can hang there with the best of them he's going to make sure that people know who he is and the fans who are watching were in shock like you hear the audience completely gasped with the fact that he's you know knocked a Jimmy Snooker out with a coconut and it definitely allowed Roddy the momentum he needed to then get into the whole feud with Hogan going into 85.

(01:03:42):
And I think what it did is it's a strange thing but that moment as well is kind of the we talk about the old generation and then like the 90s with the new generation and all this in the WWF but that really was a moment where the WWF at that point was still hanging on to kind of the not necessarily hanging on but it was still lingering the kind of Bruno Madison Square Garden.

(01:04:11):
Madison Square Garden you know sell out and you know that kind of Northern territory feel.
Yes still the regional feel.
Yeah, yeah exactly and Roddy came in and he literally just knocked that out of Jimmy and the company essentially and he came through the door was like this is my moment and I'm going to you know the company is going to go into the next generation with me as the you know the heel basically into the make me a worldwide star.

(01:04:48):
So it's kind of the you know end of the, because the end of the kind of old WWF in you know MSG I mean they still went there and ran shows but in a different you know vibe and stuff.
And even today, I mean that whole segment is just so heated. You can just feel the tension between the two of them. Roddy just is able to antagonize anybody.

(01:05:22):
And whether that kind of passed over time is a different matter, but especially at that moment, you could definitely feel a threatened sort of aura from Jimmy, especially.
And Roddy just went for it, you know, but phenomenal, phenomenal television regardless of wrestling otherwise genuine and raw television, do you know what I mean like as raw as it comes to quote, again, no pun intended, raw television.

(01:05:58):
To me, it, like I said it definitely transcends wrestling and even more than that, and this kind of also ties into what you had just said right.
This was Piper stepping out and saying this is, this is my spot. Right. I'm here now. And I especially like what you said about this was really the time when WWF switched from the Northeastern Company to a national company because in when they were, you know, strictly

(01:06:35):
focused on the Northeast, you know, the New York territory, everything surrounded you even up in Canada, you know, Toronto and things like that. It was always, you know, obviously Montreal, I can't forget about that.
But there was always everything was centered around that region, right, the characters that they had, the styles of matches that they had, the types of interviews, for the most part that they had.

(01:07:02):
Obviously there's exceptions, but generally speaking, much of their, much of their cards, much of their promotion, much of what they were presenting was geared to that audience and then you have Piper come in and just, like you said he smashed all of that with one coconut essentially.

(01:07:23):
He did, you know, he literally did. He just smashed the heritage of the WWF and created the WWF, what it was going to become.
And he, you know, just made himself a star. He didn't have to, and he might not have been a star in the sense of a fan favorite by any means, but he made himself the true antagonist of the industry and the locker room.

(01:07:54):
You know, like I know that there were people who were fuming about that he did that. I mean, I know that he generated a lot of antagonism from a lot of people with what he did.
And there's a moment as well, like we need to remember that that kind of thing has never been seen before or since in terms of like wrestling, like someone going to that extent of, I mean you've kind of got the whole racism thing with, you know, Jimmy being a jungle man for one.

(01:08:25):
Yeah.
Which is, which is degrading enough. But then kind of the big, you know, strong snucker being knocked out by a coconut, like a coconut, come on, like, you know, coconuts are hard though, you know, like they're not soft things by any means.
Yeah.

(01:08:46):
But it kind of definitely, again, made the interview segment, not just people talking, it made it into part of the program, which is what we, you know, I mean, like, it's funny now, but you know, you see the whole thing of like the interview segment and, you know, blindsided with the microphone shot to the head.

(01:09:08):
Yes.
And you know, like a steel chair to the back or that was all created by Roddy because beforehand it had just been, you know, a wrestler being interviewed by a backstage, you know, but whether it be Vince McMahon Jr or Gon Soley, for example, you know, outside the ring, you know, after they'd, you know, done some wrestling in the ring, you know, whatever it wasn't necessarily.

(01:09:31):
Then
getting themselves over.
And I think what it definitely did show as well is that Roddy had, again, it's just a psychology thing, but he knew how to touch people's bones and he knew how to generate the most heat from not only his opponent, not only the fans, sorry, but from his opponents in the sense that

(01:10:02):
we use the term shoot in terms of, but he knew how to get people to that point where they really wanted to beat him.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Or attack him.
And like I said, it was a fight.
You said about the people's contracts and people's livelihoods.
It was a fight for opportunities and those big contracts and, you know,

(01:10:27):
you've got big shoes to fill in terms of you've got a, you've been kind of given an opportunity and you've got to go for it because if you don't, then you might lose the biggest payday of your life.
Exactly.
The biggest opportunity.
And that's obviously what happened in the later part when this led into the Hogan feud, which is probably the most important. We talk about pop culture again.

(01:10:57):
Yes.
The explosion of pop culture and wrestling kind of melding together was from the seeds being planted in this Piper's Pit segment.
Now, obviously we spent a lot of time talking about Piper's Pit, but I don't think, I think we had to spend that much time talking about it because it feeds into the first WrestleMania program between Hogan and Piper.

(01:11:23):
Because to be quite honest, if he doesn't have that coming out party, if you will, in terms of the Piper's Pit, getting himself over, essentially making himself must-see TV, then he is not in a position to be the big heel to go against Hogan.
I will argue with anybody that if you don't have Piper at the level that he's at when he faces Hogan at WrestleMania, and I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, but if he's not at the level that he is, and if he's not the person that he was at that point in time,

(01:12:03):
WrestleMania is a flop and the entire landscape of professional wrestling changes.
So, but before we get into all that, let's spend some time and kind of set the stage for the first WrestleMania.
So, oh sorry.
No, go ahead, please, please go ahead.

(01:12:24):
No, no, no, I was just going to say, so, you know, from that point of the Piper's Pit thing, there was still a couple more Piper's Pits and Roddy was getting himself healthy, you know, he was, he'd had the time to kind of move from the injury and gradually
gain the confidence of the, you know, personnel in the industry, like Vince McMahon and, you know, the senior members of the team in WWF.

(01:12:53):
And Vince has got his agenda in that, you know, he's bought the company from his dad.
He wants to, he's a, I mean, people say Vince is a wrestling fan, he's all this. Vince is a businessman, Vince wanted to make money, and he wanted to make a lot of money.
And he needed to know that the person, and that's why he got Hulk Hogan, because Hulk Hogan was a money making machine in terms of marketing, you know, kids, adults, men, women, loved Hulk Hogan.

(01:13:27):
And to do that, you need to have an equal counterpart, you know, to the, we've heard this before, to Superman you need Lex Luthor, to Batman you need Joker.
You needed an equal Hogan, and that equal was Roddy Piper, you know, and, you know, so he gets himself healthy.

(01:13:48):
And then there's this idea throwing around about, you know, we're going to do the first pay-per-view and stuff, and they'd already done, well, they kind of gradually built up to the feud in a few segments and stuff.
And then, you know, there was the whole rock and roll, rock and wrestling thing, you know, Cyndall Harper and, like, Mr. T and all that thing going on.

(01:14:15):
So then we had the war to settle the score, because MTV had just come along. So MTV was a massive mainstream new outlet for music television, but also like pop culture again.
And I just want to break in here real quick. I don't mean to cut you off, but...
No, no, of course.
And really we need to really underline and highlight the importance of MTV at this time, right, because music videos are huge at this point, right?

(01:14:46):
There's heavy, heavy marketing from record labels to corporate sponsorships to everything. Everything and everyone wanted a piece of MTV. And then you get the WWF with the...
They had the war to settle the score program on MTV. And I guess, and that really, you know, kind of sets... and Cyndi Lauper at that time is a massive, massive, massive pop star. She's huge.

(01:15:18):
So you kind of have all of these things percolating at once and, like, you... and sorry to cut you off, but it does bleed into the war to settle the score.
Yeah. So, you know, kind of from there, kind of Vince sees this as an opportunity to experiment, you know, like move out of syndication.

(01:15:43):
And, you know, you've got Hogan, who's the champion. You've got Roddy, who's the antagonist. Let's put something out on this new program and see how it goes.
You know, we had Hogan versus Piper in Madison Square Garden and, you know, we had the whole thing. It was very much the vibes of those things as well, I need to just say as well.

(01:16:04):
Like those matches and that whole era as well. It's very much like these, you know, when I watch back like 70s and 80s kind of boxing matches with, ironically, with like Muhammad Ali, who would come out with wrestling.
You know, that kind of the way it's announced by Howard Finkiel, the crowd, the presentation. It felt like a fight as opposed to a wrestling match.

(01:16:26):
And a big fight feel, you hear that phrase mentioned a lot. So they had the war to settle the score, which, you know, was a... it was a success.
It wasn't a great match by any shape or the imagination, but what it did is it got more eyes on not only Hogan, but on Piper. And people wanted to see Hogan beat Piper.

(01:16:50):
So then, you know, Hogan then, you know, joined up with Mr. T, as we know, and then Piper joined up with Paul Orndorff, who he'd been managing, to then go into a tag match, which led into the main event of the first WrestleMania, which, you know, as you pointed out, had Piper's pit originally not been a success.

(01:17:17):
A WrestleMania 1 would have... it may not have even happened. Who knows? Like they wouldn't have had that main event to be able to make it happen.
Vince wouldn't have put his confidence in someone like Roddy if he didn't see it as a money-making opportunity.
And as an opportunity for Roddy to get in there on a grand stage, on a historic stage, like we're talking about it now, like even now, like it's nearly 40 years later, the first... like it's kind of like mythologised now, but like the first WrestleMania, and that was the main event.

(01:17:58):
And, you know, it just had that... it didn't feel like a regional Madison Square Garden house show. It felt like a big main event.
You know, you had Muhammad Ali, as I just mentioned. You had Liberace. You had all these celebrities coming out, and it just felt like such a big event to see Roddy and Hogan.

(01:18:21):
You know, fair enough, there was Paul Orndorff and Mr. T there and stuff going on. We're getting like... with Roddy and Mr. T and all that kind of stuff, there's that monstry there.
But it was about them. And Roddy... that entrance he came out to at WrestleMania 1, that boo, what he got from the audience was just like...

(01:18:48):
You won't hear a boo louder in your hall. I mean, I know we've heard John Cena getting booed and stuff, but that was like a different level when Roddy came out.
Hostility. And you very rarely get that level of hostility. And Roddy just lapped it up. He loved it. You could tell he was in his element. That's what he'd worked for, that kind of reaction.

(01:19:13):
If you get in a reaction, then you've obviously done something right. If you're not getting a reaction, then you've done something wrong.
And you could have asked for a better reaction and a better response from the audience, essentially. And I mean, obviously I've seen it retrospectively.
I mean, did you see it retrospectively as well, or do you remember it at the time, or like...

(01:19:36):
No, I was not on this earth when that event took place. That event preceded my birth by a couple of months.
But no, I saw it retroactively. And even watching it on tape, because I watched it on VHS, that was the thing back in the day.

(01:20:03):
We may have some younger listeners, so kids go and look up what a VHS tape is. But you could tell, right?
The way the crowd was, the way that the event was presented, that again, you alluded to it, right? The big fight feel was there.

(01:20:26):
And then obviously going into the backstory of understanding all of these tendrils that kind of led to the moment, and you understand why this was such a big match.
But yeah, obviously the match happens, and people need to realize too at this time, this is like the early, early, early stages of pay-per-view.

(01:20:49):
And they're still doing closed captioning, I think, in a few areas as well, but they do, they being the WWF with WrestleMania, does a million pay-per-view buys.
It's the most in history at that point in time. This was an event where, I think it's been well documented, that Vince essentially sunk everything that he possibly had into this event.

(01:21:11):
If this event failed, they were done. And obviously the event was a massive, massive success.
And they're able to build on the success of WrestleMania 1 and really push the national expansion of the WWF.
But again, this is something that we've discussed previously, right? If you don't have Piper where he is at that point in time,

(01:21:39):
I don't think that WrestleMania 1 would have happened if you would have had, I know later WrestleMania's had King Kong Bundy and it had other big heels.
Obviously the big famous Andre 1, but I don't think that if you would have started with those, I don't think it would have been the same.

(01:22:01):
And good, bad, indifferent, whatever. I don't think it would have been the same, which then obviously you run the risk of there not even being the company after the fact.
But again, all of these things happen in this just quick succession, if you will. And then they're off like gangbusters.

(01:22:25):
And Roddy Piper at this point is again, he's in the pop culture lexicon at this point.
Yeah. And you made a valid point there that, you know, like with Roddy, he was the key to the whole thing.
In that, you know, you had to have someone who was a viable antagonist to Hulk Hogan.

(01:22:57):
And I think the thing is as well is that he may not have been like bigger than Hogan and he may not have been sort of stronger physically or imposing.
But what Piper had is that he had an acid kind of tongue to him and an acid kind of response from the fans to him.

(01:23:26):
Like he didn't give a damn. Hogan cared about, you know, the kids and, you know, say your prayers, eat your vitamins.
And Roddy didn't care about any of that. You know, he kind of was like he didn't even touch the sides of Roddy.
And that was the thing was that Roddy brought a level of hatred for somebody which allowed that complete contrast to Hogan.

(01:23:59):
And no disrespect to, you know, Bundy or to Andre or even Randy Savage.
But Piper laid the groundwork for that Hogan aura to be born and to then just grow from there because he was just such a the ultimate bad guy, as they always call him.

(01:24:23):
He was the ultimate bad guy. You know, again, I alluded to it with the Joker and Batman.
But, you know, you can't kind of he doesn't do anything physically threatening, but you can't necessarily.
It's his again, his psychology, his mind games and his sort of antagonism, which just Hogan couldn't level with. That's the thing.

(01:24:53):
That was the leveling factor for the two of them. And that's what laid the groundwork then later on for guys like Bundy and for Andre Savage, Sergeant Slaughter and things.
So we go from, as you mentioned, we go from WrestleMania 1 and then the whole WWF kind of grows in massive popularity, you know, merchandising, marketing.

(01:25:22):
You know, we've got things like Saturday Night Main Event, which come along and again, they, you know, off the back of the WrestleMania 1 kind of allow you more opportunity for the fans to see the talent in, you know, the WWF, including Piper.
I believe that I don't know exactly if I can remember seeing Saturday Night Main Event with any episodes of Piper's Pit, I may be wrong, but I know that Piper's Pit was still taking place in like as in ring segments of all things like in Madison Square Garden.

(01:25:58):
There was some great, yeah, so there were some great moments with the evening to Paul Orndorff and kind of gave him a portrait and stuff. So there were some great moments and things. But the whole like, you know, you've got the Hulk Hogan cartoon show with Roddy as the bad guy.
You know, it was the perfect marketable moment to bring it into pop culture for kids and for merchandise and Piper as well as that.

(01:26:29):
You know, sort of like I said, real life bad guy in a sense, in that he was a bad guy who was on TV, he wasn't like a cartoon character, he was there. And you move from there on to, you know, WrestleMania 2 with the storyline with Mr. T being continued from WrestleMania 1.

(01:26:54):
Yes. And again, inverted commas, you can't see any people, but the boxing match between the two of them, which was questionable to say the least.
And there was a lot of animosity between the two of them or Roddy for Mr. T, which, you know, again, Roddy, one of the things about Roddy as well, in terms of his, why he was so intense and why it came off, the wrestling business wasn't just a love of his, it was his life.

(01:27:31):
Yes.
And it was what he was, you know, and he, regardless of what he did inside the industry, like when you hear him outside, like talking about it, his respect and his love for the industry is what comes through.
And he really was living and breathing the wrestling industry and it was his art form. And he didn't like when somebody, well, he felt belittled the art form and his profession, one of those being Mr. T.

(01:28:04):
So the wrestling, well, sorry, the boxing match took place at WrestleMania 2, which again is questionable to say the least. It didn't hurt Roddy's reputation because Roddy was still, he was in a boxing match at WrestleMania 2.
And again, that's a unique fighting environment. And then from there, Piper's, you know, sort of respect from the fans because of his, it's a weird thing, isn't it?

(01:28:38):
But like when someone's been, it kind of happened with Ric Flair in a way in 89 as well, but wrestling fans do respect the talent and the respect of Roddy because he was such a, it's weird, isn't it?
We respect those people, we're hating them, it's very strange.
Yes.

(01:28:59):
And people kind of turned in a sense of that they understood that Roddy, although he was a bad guy, he was a bad guy, people loved to hate. And they began to gravitate towards him as a cheer for him and become a lot more, I don't want to use the word accept him, but sort of, yeah, cheated for him and accepted him.

(01:29:26):
You almost, he's like, he's like that, it's the love to hate kind of thing.
Yes.
Is what it ends up boiling down to, yes.
And then he kind of became a babyface and gradually over time, and he became more of a, he kind of gravitated again towards being more of a kind of the talk show thing with Piper's pit being but in a more face, babyface sense.

(01:29:56):
So we then got into the point of the situation with Adrian Adonis going into WrestleMania III, which was going to be his retirement match in inverted commas again, because he was going to become an actor.
And, and which again, through his work in wrestling, again, that helped him become more loved by the fans because he was respected by people outside of the industry for his contributions in the industry, which took him to Hollywood to then become a film star, the first real life, the first real kind of in the North American movie industry.

(01:30:35):
You know, wrestling movie star really.
And, you know, we had the famous Piper's pit with Hogue and Andre and Piper, which then led into their WrestleMania III match, which was historic.
So it kind of all led into WrestleMania III, which was the big apex of the explosion of the World Wrestling Federation.

(01:31:00):
Yes.
And, you know, the, you know, moment what Vince McMahon had dreamed of probably.
And the grand stage for Roddy to, you know, show the world what he was capable of in a long roundabout way there.
It's interesting his progression to have matches right because although he was a part of all through WrestleMania's all three matches were different. Right. So he has he has the first one with Hogan obviously we cover that in great detail.

(01:31:32):
The second one is the lovable boxing match with Mr. T. You'll love to hate it if you will. And the third matches is is the hair versus hair match slash sorry, the hair or retirement match I should specify with Adrian Adonis and everybody had assumed that Piper was going to retire or lose the match and retire to go focus on on the film career.

(01:31:59):
But he wins and then leaves anyways. And that's that is a topic that I'm going to discuss later on in this program.
But in terms of his WWF run so he's gone for a few years he comes back I believe it was 89. And again he's he's right back in in the thick of things right.

(01:32:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He Piper's pit straight back into right away. Yeah.
In, you know, wrestling, you know, WrestleMania five he, you know, kind of been back before that. One of the things what just before we do get into this there's a, a long time ago, just before we get into the 89 period. Yes. But his last match at Madison Square Garden.

(01:32:54):
I believe if I'm correct was an elimination, a six man elimination tag match which had Piper, Steamboat, Savage, Honky Tonk Man, Adrian Adonis and Harley Race if I'm not mistaken.
I think I could be wrong. It's on a home video set somewhere. I can't remember what it is. It might be the 50 greatest stars in the WWF history. But then what's amazing is look it up. It's on I think it's on YouTube somewhere.

(01:33:25):
But when Roddy comes out it's just I think it's just before WrestleMania three I think it's his last match at Madison Square Garden anyway before he takes his hiatus.
And you know, I think it's about the respect thing and from two years before where the fans in Madison Square Garden are wanting to jump the guardrail and you know, as we said, rip his heart out.

(01:33:51):
They just in love with him, you know, that reaction from those fans like that respect is gained from them and you know, it was kind of one of those sort of true amazing moments hidden moments in wrestling which just shows how much the fans appreciate what someone has done to the industry in.

(01:34:13):
And I think even more so than WrestleMania three for me that kind of full circle in a sense of he started in Madison Square Garden and it ended there and it just felt such a beautiful moment in terms of that period of his career.
So if you do get a chance to find that particular match then definitely just check out the I think he won it actually as well. I may be wrong but I think he was the remaining man in the match as well.

(01:34:38):
So definitely check it out from there. It's a nice little hidden part of Roddy's story in terms of his career in the WWF and like how the fans perceived him.
So getting back to yeah, WrestleMania five so 89 comes back does the does the Piper's pit with Martin Downey Jr with the fire extinguisher.

(01:35:08):
And he then you know comes back more so and there are several more there is Piper's pit but then it kind of comes more as a personality.
So he starts being more of a commentator and more of a on air personality. He doesn't really get involved in many he has matches but then more so like a on a house show level like a lower level more so than kind of building himself up for another big run.

(01:35:52):
Rather than you know them being on TV wrestling straight away. So he got involved in the SummerSlam match with Rick Rude and Ultimate Warrior which was great fun 89 SummerSlam.
I love that show. And then they kind of from there build up the whole thing with you know Roddy and Rick Rude who are two you know great you've got the great antagonist of Rick Rude who's the you know kind of narcissistic you know Rick Rude.

(01:36:37):
Ladies man and all that yeah is great stuff. Yeah and a hard man himself this is the thing he fought in the ring you know like Peter Dexter and all this. Oh yeah he could go.
And then you've got Roddy you know who comes in as well and he's a hard guy you know he's the fighter and stuff. So I was on a heel as well but people love him for it you know he's able to have the mind games and then we're then getting to the interesting part where

(01:37:13):
we get to WrestleMania 6 where we have Roddy and Bad News Brown. Yes. Which you may or may not be able to find nowadays. Yes yes.
You know well it's just a little call it what it is so for anybody at home who may not be familiar so Bad News Brown was also known as Bad News Alan from especially the Calgary Stampede days but massive massive wrestling star and he goes to the WWF.

(01:37:50):
He and Piper have a back and forth which culminates in a feud at WrestleMania 6. Now what everybody at home needs to understand who may not know is that Bad News Alan is African American.
So Roddy being Roddy and kind of a loose cannon I think is probably the probably the way to go. But Piper comes out to the ring and he has half of his face painted painted white and half of his face painted black.

(01:38:27):
And obviously a gesture like that today probably doesn't fly. I understand.
And this is one of those weird things to right where Piper has come out and said that it was supposed to be like a statement against racism kind of thing but then everybody took it completely the wrong way because it's a horrible look.

(01:38:52):
It was. I don't remember his exact quote and perhaps I can find it later on and if I can find it.
I will include it later on in this program tonight. But essentially, he was it was a statement on, you know, it doesn't matter if you're black or white let's get in the ring and settle this feud, which like obviously did not go that way.

(01:39:15):
And if if I'm mistaken, please somebody correct me out in Twitter land or whatever send your hate tweets to at six underscore podcast.
But I'm pretty sure that that match has been removed from the network because of cultural insensitivity or whatever.
So I don't know that you can if you're in America specifically, I don't know if you can find that match anymore. But that's what happened there. And obviously it didn't go very well.

(01:39:46):
And bad news Alan was upset after the fact he didn't know that that's what was going to happen.
So this whole thing just from whether or not it was the best intentions rolling into it. I'm not in any way I want to make this perfectly clear in no way shape or form.
And I am I insinuating that Roddy Piper was legitimately trying to to use a racist gesture in this match.

(01:40:14):
That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that it was viewed that way by other people and one of those people being bad news Alan.
I know he was he was upset about that one. And then obviously their match goes to double count out and they don't really go anywhere after the fact.
And apparently in in the ring, you know, Piper didn't want to lose because he's Piper.

(01:40:38):
Obviously bad news Alan does not want to lose because look right. Yeah, it visibly is there. Why not?
Right. So match goes to double count out. But that's kind of the for everybody who's not familiar with that story.
And it's a polarizing one. And there's look there's lots you can read about it. It's been heavily reported.

(01:40:59):
Unfortunately, it's been heavily misrepresented. And if you're going to go online and read kind of articles about it, just please keep in mind what you're reading and the context you're reading it.
And that's that's all I'm going to say about that. But, you know, for further discussion and for further investigation, it's out there in the ether for anybody at home who wants to hear more about that story.

(01:41:27):
Obviously, I am not, you know, white guy from Winnipeg. I'm not really qualified to speak about, you know, racial issues and what somebody may have or may not have felt in that situation.
So that's why I'm kind of phrasing it the way that I am. But I do know that it was not for sure it was not meant to be, you know, a completely racist gesture towards an African American who who Roddy was fighting in the ring.

(01:41:56):
No, I think it's what you hear. Good point in that it shows that Roddy is a loose cannon that particular segment in that he didn't again, he loved to put in his opponents off guard.
Yes, he completely was off guard with that whole, you know, situation.

(01:42:20):
I mean, had Bad News Brown, Bad News Allen painted half of his body in white, then you could tell that there was some kind of a thing going on backstage when they were both on the same page, essentially.
But Roddy did it himself. And I think it definitely, you know, the confidence factor in Roddy to be able to do that is one thing.

(01:42:48):
That he just that he did it.
I mean, retrospectively now, it's very uncomfortable. I mean, even the time it was uncomfortable, but even more so now when you know about how Bad News reacted to it and and everything.
But, you know, he kind of that was part of his I mean, we talk about Brian Kip Pillman, the loose cannon, but Roddy really was a loose cannon that no one really knew what Roddy was kind of going to do.

(01:43:22):
Yes, that's kind of the equivalent of the coconut shot in the past.
In a sense to Bad News and it offended him. And, you know, it's kind of part of the business philosophy of Roddy in a sense in the psychology side of it.
And, you know, we need to remember as well that

(01:43:47):
Roddy has been away for a while. So the industry has changed slightly in the sense of the
Well, the company has changed in that, you know, Vince has been able to get in, you know, a mixture of big muscly guys, equivalent to Hogan, you know, like the Ultimate Warrior, Rik Rude, Savage has obviously bulked up.

(01:44:14):
And to stand out, you have to make a statement. And he made a statement, especially coming back into the company after, you know, being away.
Which then from WrestleMania through 91, you know, kind of
There was a mixture of he was kind of here and there Roddy, segment and the odd matches here and there. But at this point in time as well, Rik Flair came back in, came into the WWF.

(01:44:49):
Who Roddy was very close to on a personal level. I believe that Roddy was actually Rik Flair's best man at one of his weddings, I believe, if I'm correct. I could be wrong, but I think I heard that somewhere.
So they were friends outside of the industry. And they kind of had a bit of a feud going on as well, like on the house shows and stuff.

(01:45:14):
Again, I don't know if it's verbatim or not, but I think Rik Flair said, or I've heard him say that one of the reasons he wanted to go to the WWF was because he wanted to face Roddy.
Yes, that's right. After it's seen him in the early days when he was in the NWA and like, you know, the two heels and stuff. I think I heard that I think.

(01:45:43):
And then that led him to survive a series where you had Rik's team and then you had, you know, Roddy's team and, you know, they kind of went into a feud.
And then leading into that was when we got into the 92 Royal Rumble, which was a massive moment for Roddy because that was when he won his first major singles championship.

(01:46:10):
It's amazing to think that Roddy, during his initial run and for a long time in his career, didn't hold any championships.
That's right, yeah. And he defeated the Mountain at 92 Royal Rumble for this Intercontinental Championship and the crowd went crazy and were so pleased that Roddy had won his first singles belt.

(01:46:36):
And it was sold on commentary by Gorilla Monsoon. And, you know, it was a massive moment. It was the equivalent of a world championship win, essentially.
And it really was probably a thank you to Roddy for what he'd done. And I mean, the Intercontinental Championship had such a legacy anyway that it was the equivalent of the WDGRAF Championship in some ways.

(01:47:02):
And, you know, he thankfully made it his own for a couple of months. But it was a great moment for Roddy to finally hold some gold after all those years of trying to capture the gold, that he finally held some gold.
And then he went into the 92 Rumble and although he didn't win the Royal Rumble match, he, you know, was part of that amazing 92 Royal Rumble which Ric Flair, his friend, won.

(01:47:32):
Which then led into an amazing match which is now again sort of mythologised. Which was Bret Hart against Piper at WrestleMania 8 for the Intercontinental Championship.
Which was arguably the greatest wrestling match in the career of Roddy Piper. And it's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal match. Yeah, so we'll kind of stop there.

(01:48:05):
But yeah, like that kind of period is definitely an interesting one in Roddy's. It's kind of like he's a bit... I always felt like at this period in time, Roddy kind of was trying to find his fit. And he didn't really know where he fit in the industry a little bit.
It's kind of like he was a bit lost. And like from being the mob, from knocking the WWWF out and the WWWF coming in, it's that whole thing of the old and new generation.

(01:48:39):
I think he kind of felt a little bit like he was an old generation because he'd not been there. But I think this point in time when he got the belt was an opportunity for him to show a different side of his wrestling ability.
Which I think built his confidence up and his legacy up even more. You may think differently but that's kind of how I perceive it.
No, I agree with that. And I think it's evident in the crowd reaction to both him winning it and him losing it. Right? Because for as much as the crowd went nuts for Bret Hart winning it, I think the crowd also went nuts as an acknowledgement to Roddy for being who he is. You know what I mean?

(01:49:22):
And this is the interesting thing about wrestling and wrestling fans is when somebody wins a championship, it's often very evident if the fans think they deserve to win it and they do and they win it and the fans have a certain pop.
The fans have a different pop for a title change when they respect the guy who lost. And I think that is very evident in the Bret Hart match at WrestleMania 8. I'm very glad you brought that point up.

(01:49:59):
And it's interesting too, you brought up another point. And obviously, yes he was still with the WWF. He was gone for a while. He came back in 1994 to 1996. But he was never a main event player if you will.

(01:50:20):
So I definitely understand your point about now instead of being the guy who smashed out the WWF to usher in the WWF, now he's kind of getting ushered out. And this was at the time when a lot of us fans would jokingly refer to this time as the cartoon era.
Where Piper definitely does not fit what they're doing at this time. Really appealing to kids. Good, bad and different. I'm not criticizing the structure if you will, but that's what was happening at the time. So he's not really a fit there.

(01:50:57):
He comes back, obviously in 1996, he has kind of a run and then he has the Hollywood Baccalaat brawl which we should probably touch on a little bit.
Again, we discussed the controversial match at WrestleMania against Bad News Allen. Well this one is controversial in a different light. We're not going to go too deep into this one because it's kind of ridiculous.

(01:51:28):
But anybody who, I know for a fact that we have people who listen to this show who were not born in the 1990s. So for anybody who is not familiar with what happened in 96, throw this in your Google machine, the OJ Simpson trials.
And specifically you can find out the OJ Simpson for Bronco escape slash police chase to kind of get further context into what we're talking about. But essentially at WrestleMania, I believe it was what WrestleMania 12?

(01:52:07):
Yes, WrestleMania 12. Yeah, so Piper has a Hollywood Baccalaat brawl against Goldust who, that's a character that we just, we don't have enough time in the day to explain to people what was going on there with that character.
But essentially they have a brawl that begins at Arrowhead Pond, Goldust makes an escape in a Cadillac, Piper allegedly jumps in a white Ford Bronco and essentially the WWF just shows footage of the OJ Simpson police chase or whatever.

(01:52:44):
So it's over top, it finishes at the arena and it's just, it's a whole, it's an interesting exhibition if you will.
So yeah, for anybody who wants to understand a little bit more of that, again, we're just going to touch on that because as much as it's funny, it's not really, you know, a standout moment I will say in the life of Roddy Piper and his time with the WWF.

(01:53:22):
No, I think again though, what we need to mention though with that segment is that, you know, we talk about Roddy, he's kind of, Roddy's very much a trailblazer for many trends in the industry on many moments.

(01:53:44):
And the WWF at this point kind of has, like you said, the cartoony or the new generation and the whole, you know, the period which Roddy came back in in 96 is kind of not a good period in that sense.
It's very, I mean, Jim Cornet called it that wrestling was going through a recession.

(01:54:06):
Yes.
Sorry, can you give me one second here? Sorry, Steve.
No cost.
Just one second.

(01:54:40):
Sorry.
Yeah, no, that's okay.
No, no, or you can make the race you pick.
Okay.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
Yeah, again, the joys of kids in the married life.

(01:55:07):
So sorry. Yeah, you had left off discussing Roddy Piper and the trailblazing aspect, which is interesting.
So I was about to say that, you know, wrestling at this point was going through a recession, essentially.
And they needed something, the whole industry needed something to, it was kind of another seed what led into the Attitude Era, essentially, but it's not really kind of mentioned.

(01:55:37):
And I don't mean from a wrestling perspective, per se, but from a presentation perspective, you know, the whole Speed Chase thing backstage kind of parking lot brawl thing, kind of segment, it was put together.
And it definitely was an experiment in terms of what we would see later on in sort of 99 and 2000 for the WWF.

(01:56:02):
And I think Roddy kind of just took it in his stride in that it was just a, it was where it was.
And, you know, you're not going to get someone other than, you know, it's Roddy Piper.
He'll, you know, he's the most controversial man in wrestling. He doesn't mind being involved in one of the most controversial segments in wrestling history.

(01:56:24):
And it was funny, especially here in the UK when, again, you know, it's one of those things where it's kind of, you can not laugh about it.
But I think unintentionally, it was a step towards what we would see later on in the Attitude Era from the company with like the hardcore title and these crazy kind of, you know, non wrestling segments and, you know, like real life kind of, you know, stuff.

(01:57:02):
So it's an interesting one. I think Roddy though, definitely.
I think the problem was that the industry had changed so much since he was in the company.
I think he had lost a lot of his, at that point, his passion in a sense. I think he, and obviously he was getting older.

(01:57:32):
So I think then when he came into WCW, which, you know, he was there for about, you know, a couple of years and then kind of on and off again, like the WWF where he was on and off post-87.
I think WCW kind of, much like with Hogan, was a breath of fresh air, especially going into the Monday Night Walls, which would, you know, although he wasn't a prevalent part of that as a talent or like a, he wasn't like on the main event level he had been.

(01:58:11):
But there was still a vital component in getting people drawn into WCW at a time when, you know, we hear about the Forbidden Door and we hear about all these silly terms now about jumping ship and, you know, Roddy, much like Hogan, jumping from the WWF to WCW was a big deal.

(01:58:33):
That loyalty and stuff. And there was a lot of, I know there was a lot of animosity from a few years later from Vince and a few other people because Roddy had kind of been a loyal guy and then he'd kind of gone and done his own thing.

(01:58:54):
So that was him, you know, he was doing what was best for him and his family at this point, you know, and what he wanted to get out of the industry.
So then he joined WCW in 96 and then jumped straight into his feud with, well jumped right back into his feud with Hogan and they later on main evented Starcade 96, which was an interesting throwback to, you know, the, well just over 10 years before.

(01:59:35):
WrestleMania. So it was an interesting time for Roddy. I think again he was trying to find himself, but I think WCW helped him to just have a breath of fresh air in terms of presentation and just, you know, territory essentially, you know, down south.

(01:59:57):
Because it was Georgia at that point, well, you know, like south essentially. Going back to his roots really. So yeah, so an interesting time definitely. The mid 90s for Roddy leading into the 2000s.
I mean, I didn't watch the Monday Night Wars directly, but I mean, do you remember seeing Roddy kind of debut and his time in the company?

(02:00:21):
Yes, I remember that because I was watching at that point. That was right in my wheelhouse, right? So it was interesting for us. And I mean, like, obviously he wasn't the Roddy of old, but you're still fascinated with what he was able to do there.
And unfortunately, you know, with so much focus being on the NWO and then he's, yeah, he has the program with Hogan, but then he's kind of out again and then he's back and he's doing a program with Bret Hart for a bit.

(02:00:56):
Then he's made a special guest referee and they kind of did like this take on the screw job thing that was really bad, really bad taste. I believe that happened in 99. So like he's there and he's a part of it and he's in the mix of the Monday Night Wars.
But it's not. And this is not I don't mean any disrespect at all towards Piper, but it just, it wasn't part or he didn't really fit there either.

(02:01:28):
And I think some of that has to fall on who was running it at the time. And, you know, many people have had their thoughts about WCW management at all the times that Piper was there.
Obviously, he went through two different people who were in charge of that ship and one of them sank it. But I mean, that's a whole other, you know, can of worms that, you know, what happened with WCW.

(02:01:59):
Yeah, we'll just leave that one where it is. But so he finishes there. Obviously, he has some he has some time in the early 2000s with WWE. Again, he's in and out. He's doing some some Piper pits. He's interacting with guys like Jericho, guys like Rikishi.
And then he's, you know, he's out again. He has a cup of coffee with with TNA total nonstop action. I think honestly, the most memorable thing is, and I don't know if you've ever seen it.

(02:02:32):
The promo that he cuts on Vince Russo. That was yeah you've seen that. Yeah, where he goes he goes off script and he essentially accuses Russo of murdering Owen Hart.
Yeah, you know what? I'll probably include that audio in this episode to be honest. I've included a lot of audio in this episode that is not wrestling related in terms of Piper. But I think I might include that one just so everybody can understand what we're talking about here.

(02:03:00):
But so he's in TNA again, a cup of coffee. He's not really again, he's not there to be the big star. He's there as kind of an attraction, if you will, which kind of brings us to speaking of attractions.
We do have to talk about his return to the WWF and then the tag team run specifically.

(02:03:22):
Yes, I actually remember watching the promo on Vince Russo on the wrestling channel.
Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm gonna have to include that one here.
He's, I mean we've got to remember as well that those who don't know that Roddy is a distant cousin of the Hart family. He is a member of them, that distantly. I don't know how close he was to, I haven't read Roddy's autobiography actually, I do need to read it.

(02:04:00):
I know he was very close to Brett. I mean I presume he was very close to Owen as well from what he said.
I think it's, and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's something like, it's like fifth cousins or sixth cousins or something like that, but there is the connection regardless.
Yeah, there's some kind of a connection between them. And I think the whole thing with, he kind of put a big shadow on Canadian wrestling in a sense because they weren't, I mean especially like because they weren't there to look after him, Owen.

(02:04:42):
And yeah when I watched it I was like, you know, talking about like going off script and doing your own thing, you know, like wow. I'm actually, you know, the amazing thing is that they didn't even kind of mute the mic or anything.
No, they didn't kill the mic. But I think that says more about I think the production of TNA at that time than it does anything else.

(02:05:09):
It does, it does. Definitely an interesting segment. But yeah, he was there a little bit, he did a few things and he came back in 2005 so Roddy returned for the Hall of Fame induction which was probably the, it was the, they'd had the Hall of Fame the year before.

(02:05:30):
That was kind of a bit more low key and sort of more in the model of the earlier Hall of Fame. It was kind of more of a, you know, night of celebration but kind of more of private dinner which was then kind of recorded and highlights were shown of more so than a big spectacle.
Whereas the year after because they were in Hollywood and you know it was kind of 20 years since the first WrestleMania and you know there was a lot of things going on. So he, Roddy was inducted along with many of the figures of the rock and roll wrestling, you know, period.

(02:06:12):
So, yeah, and Sheik was inducted, Nikolai Volkov was inducted and Hulk Hogan was inducted and he was inducted by Sylvester Stallone as well which again shows the, you know, sort of pop culture element of wrestling which you know I think that's what it is.
It was kind of a celebration of the wrestling, what a lot of people from that period had enjoyed, you know, like from their childhood. It was kind of a celebration of that and I think Roddy, when he did come out and give his speech, you could definitely feel there was a different, he was a different person out there than what he had been previously.

(02:06:53):
And he looked happy, which was really good to see.
So he came out and then the night after WrestleMania 21 he did the Piper's Pick with Stone Cold Steve Austin which was great, you know, that had been kind of sort of promoted before.

(02:07:14):
I mean, I think what's very telling is Piper's Pick kind of, how many talk show segments on wrestling programs do you know that actually have billing on the main paper you have a company and they're one of the main selling points.
Yeah, almost nine, yeah.
So Piper, he came back and did a few segments with Piper's Pick. He did the, you know, one with like Randy Orton and he did one with Shawn Michaels and then he came back in 2006 and he actually tagged with Ric Flair, longtime friend.

(02:08:03):
And at Cyber Sunday, so the pay per view where people online were able to shoot.
Yeah, was going to tag with, so Ric Flair was in a feud with Randy Orton and Edge, written RKO, and sorry, he was in a feud with the Spirit Squad, I should say.

(02:08:25):
Yes, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they were also like with Randy Orton and things. So then, there's various different partners who Ric Flair was like possibly could have teamed with but then the fans chose Roddy Piper, going crazy with the fans and then, you know, amazingly Roddy Piper and Ric Flair won the tag belts and the crowd went crazy and Roddy got his second ever gold.

(02:08:52):
Yeah, he had his second major championship with the WWE at that time, but yes.
You want to say?
No, just his second major title with the WWE, yeah.
Yeah, and that great image afterwards where, you know, they were both smiling and the belts were above there. Yeah, brilliant. Really feel good moment, I think, for a lot of people. And, you know, although it didn't last, it was only a day, sadly, or like it wasn't very long, a week or something.

(02:09:20):
Yeah, I think it was a week, maybe a little bit less, but yeah.
Yeah, which was a shame, but you know, it's one of those things. And then, Roddy kind of came back a little bit. He did the thing with Jericho and Snooker and Steamboat against Chris Jericho at WrestleMania 25, which was questionable. But I think that's just because Roddy was getting older and, you know, like all wrestlers do.

(02:09:49):
But then, you know, there's a few more interactions and things. And then he came back. Sorry, he actually came back, I should say, sorry, because I've jumped ahead there. But one of the great moments was when just after he actually, it was like about 18 months after he'd lost the belts with Ric Flair, sorry.

(02:10:12):
So before he fought with Chris Jericho, he came out in the Royal Rumble match against Jimmy Snooker. I should have said that beforehand. So it was one of the surprise entrants in the 2008 Royal Rumble. And it was him and Snooker in Madison Square Garden again.
And the whole ring just like, parted like the Red Sea. Just to see those two going at it. It was phenomenal. And that crowd when he came out, they were just so, it was amazing. I mean, the whole match was amazing.

(02:10:50):
But Roddy coming out and the reaction and Snooker's face and Roddy's fire and stuff, it was fantastic. You know, I loved it. And yeah, it was just like a celebration of his career in the WWF and in Madison Square Garden, really, that moment.
So from there, like I said, he fought at Rassoli in 25 with Chris Jericho. And then he kind of wound down a bit. He did a couple more episodes of Piper's Pate. He did a great one with the Shield.

(02:11:22):
Yes, that's right. I think that was 14 or something like that. Yeah, it was really good, which was really fun. And then he kind of wound down then and he sort of gradually, his last kind of major appearance was at WrestleMania 31 when he was celebrating with Daniel Bryan.

(02:11:43):
Now back again as Bryan Danielson when he won the Indy Cotton Hell Championship. And then kind of, you know, gradually wound down.
So, you know, gradually then it was a few months later that he sadly passed away after he'd been, you know, previously been poorly with cancer.

(02:12:05):
I don't know whether he had cancer again or whether he just, you know, passed away. But then it kind of, you know, when he sadly passed away, which was a great shame.
So, yeah, that kind of ended his incredible wrestling run in the WWF sort of 30 years after it began in the WWF, just over in the WWF.

(02:12:36):
Exactly. Very much, you know, a loss, you know, like I said before we started sort of at the beginning, it was a massive loss in terms of someone who made such an impact on the industry, both inside and outside.

(02:12:59):
And I think it's testament to Robbie that he was able to transcend wrestling and get opportunities in, you know, the movies he was in.
And then, you know, it was things like, it's always sunny in Philadelphia and stuff like that as well, which was, you know, really cool as well.

(02:13:24):
So he was a guy who wrestling, people who watch wrestling who were not necessarily wrestling fans, loved Roddy Piper for that because he was able to just, he was just the guy he wanted to, you know, have on your show and just like kind of, you know, he was a pop culture icon.

(02:13:52):
You know, if Roddy was there, people were going to watch him. He was definitely a, literally, he talked about one-offs in the industry and he really was a one-off.
And, you know, he lived the industry and he, you know, died with the industry really. It was very much a, it was a life, you know, and that's the great kind of, you know, sort of, I don't want to say, yeah, like the legacy he left is that, you know, he really did.

(02:14:29):
Out of everything else he's done, wrestling was his true love, you know, out of everything. And he made it for him and he made an impact which his legacy is that we're still seeing that today with, you know, things like trying to mimic Piper's pit and, you know, his sort of,

(02:14:51):
heel work and his sort of teachings, I think more than anything, you know, for what he left. He's definitely greatly missed by myself and, you know, many, many other wrestling fans.
And left a wealth of moments and matches which, you know, will live on really. And it is a shame. It's kind of one of those things where you can't believe he's actually passed away. I think I still don't believe Roddy Piper's passed away. It's very bizarre.

(02:15:22):
I really can't, you know, it's very odd. But yeah, I think he made an impact in the industry. He might not have won a world title but that didn't matter because what he did, you can win all the world titles like he's had in the world but it's when you make an impact in the industry.
And that's what he did. He made an impact in the industry which is why we talked about him this evening and celebrated his incredible WWF and sort of 80s and 90s run career, essentially. Yeah, definitely, you know, incredible one-off talent in wrestling.

(02:16:01):
I think that's about as perfect a way that we can end this portion of the conversation. Look, Stephen, this has been absolutely incredible. For the listeners of this program, how are they able to get in touch with yourself?
Yes, you can find me on Twitter at DJ215 and you can read my work at The Wrestling Estate. So you can find us at The Wrestling EST and I'll look for www.thereswlingestate.com.

(02:16:34):
And so yeah, I just need to say again, Taxman, thank you so much for having me on and talking about Roddy. I think the gravitas of Roddy's legacy in the industry is a tall order for anyone to be asked to sort of summarize.
Asking me to do it and the way you said about me at the beginning, I think we've done Roddy a true kind of, well, we've done him justice, let's put it that way, hot Rod. I feel very lucky to have spoken about him this evening, so thank you.

(02:17:11):
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(02:19:30):
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(02:19:54):
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Before I bring on my next guest, I'm going to play some more classic Roddy Roddy Piper audio.
Now this is the aforementioned infamous TNA Impact incident that Stephen and myself had discussed in the previous segment. So this is Roddy Piper at his most unscripted and legitimately probably most unhinged in a wrestling promo point of view.

(02:20:30):
It's very real, it's very biting and to say that it's shocking in terms of bringing the realities of the outside world into wrestling is probably putting it mildly.
So I'm going to play that little bit of classic Roddy Roddy Piper audio. Again, it's pretty shocking stuff but further illustrates just how uncontrollably passionate Roddy Roddy Piper was.

(02:21:08):
After that, another guest will be stopping by to share their memories of Roddy Roddy Piper. Then on the other side, my tremendous conversation, Ead, all the way from Bahrain. Please enjoy.
Vince Russo said he is the anti-Christ of professional wrestling. Russo, don't give yourself so much credit. You are simply the Ben Laudan of professional wrestling.

(02:21:47):
You are a coward. You are a coward that comes and sneaks in by night. I've got a question for you fans. The ones at home, you here with children. For two years Russo wrote all kinds of things for the WWF.
I have this question. Hey Russo, did you write in my cousin Owen's death? Did you write home? Did you ask about his family? He's dead. He's my cousin. He's dead. Why?

(02:22:19):
Because someone like you who knows nothing about the technicalities put somebody 90 feet up. Why? There's no consequences to pay for you. And you know what? Everybody pays the Piper, man.
You piece of garbage. You piece of garbage Russo. I tell you what. I may be on a stiff every once in a while, but I ain't forgot how to dance.

(02:22:51):
On the back of my shirt is 10 men that have died giving their hearts to a sport that gave my life. I wear this black band because if we do not stop Russo, he will kill professional wrestling for every one of you.
Unless, unless your idea of a good time is having a 320 pound Simone in the thong sitting on your face. Not for me. You don't have that kind of money.

(02:23:25):
Little, little pew pew. Lots of time. Come on out. Come on out Russo. I know how to beat Vince Russo. There is a new millennium of professional wrestler.

(02:23:46):
One with pride, one that knows the entertainment value is in the ring wrestling so you and your kids can sit down and enjoy it.
When Russo was in the WCW. Here it is. Face to face confrontation. You're not a pimple on my ass. Oh man, that's surprising.

(02:24:20):
I want to ask you some questions here champ. Did you kill Owen Hart? I want to ask you some questions champ. How do you take over the WCW 67 million dollars to the good and get it 80 million dollars to the bad?

(02:24:41):
How did you do that? That's genius. That's pure genius. Don't have an answer for that one? Yeah I got an answer for that one. You're going to give me the microphone or you're going to bleed in my face like a moron.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is what I'm going to do. I'll hold it and I'll try to be a gentleman. But you have to explain to me what is it you are trying to accomplish.

(02:25:07):
You let me hold that microphone and I'll talk otherwise. Sure, absolutely I will. How do you like being played with? Hang on. Oh I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
You know what? The thing is this man. He says the act is over. He used to call me a dinosaur. Myself, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan. You're not a pimple on Hogan's ass.

(02:25:33):
And I sent you a tape, didn't I Wysock? I sent you a tape of how to turn the WCW around but no, you have this great concept that we're not athletes. We're just entertainers and you're going to make an entertainment show of it.
Well, what you made is simply soft pornography. That's all you've done. What you're doing is you're killing my kids back there. Young men that are coming up. I agree with you on one thing. Yes, my time is over.

(02:26:09):
But you know what? You're the dinosaur now, man. You're the one that needs to go bye bye. So it's like this buddy. Ron and Don Harris in the ring.
Bye. Yeah. No, no, no. Absolutely. There you go. Well, what you gonna do? What you gonna do? Come on. Come on. Come on and get it. Come on and get it.

(02:26:43):
How do you like being manipulated? You like playing with it, huh? You're not fast enough for me, baby. I'll tell you something. I'm going to be watching and you're going to learn one thing. You don't throw rocks at a guy who's not a machine gun.
This one. Oh, no, no, I will face this. This kill them here. Piper Mew. Ronny Roddy Piper has a shoot interview. It's coming to you. Watch it. Friday night. We'll tell you exactly what I think of you.

(02:27:24):
Wow. Believe it makes the head for me. Will you? Unreal. Yes, when you think you've seen it all.
Hi guys, it's Jack Kiley here. One half of the Just Because Wrestling podcast. And I'm here because our very good friend, the taxman, asked Just Because Wrestling to talk about their most memorable Ronny Roddy Piper moments.

(02:27:59):
Now, I must say, I am a late 90s baby, so smashing coconuts and chewing bubble gum hot rod is before my time. However, having the opportunity to watch them moments back, I know just how good Roddy Roddy Piper was.
Who could not talk about Roddy Roddy Piper and not mention WrestleMania, his main event in the first WrestleMania teaming with Paul Orndorf to take on Mr. T and Hulk Hogan set WrestleMania up to become one of the biggest shows of the year.

(02:28:43):
Another one of my favorite moments is Super Bowl 7. Super Bowl. Super Brawl 7. With one of the best openings to a pay-per-view of all time with Piper escaping Alcatraz. If you don't remember, go back and watch it.
And who can remember my personal favorite and most memorable Roddy Roddy Piper moment when he entered as a surprise entrant into the 2008 Royal Rumble, blowing the roof off Madison Square Garden one last time.

(02:29:25):
I want to thank Andy, the taxman for giving us the opportunity to come on and talk about Roddy Piper. And yeah, thank you very much.
All right. I'm very pleased to be bringing on the line. We may as well call him the Grappling with Canada pop culture analyst, if you will. Welcoming to the program for a second time all the way from Bahreit, Ead. Ead, how are you doing, man?

(02:30:01):
Thank you very much, Andy, for having me for the second time now on the program. Obviously, the last episode we did, I had so much fun and I had fun listening to the other guests you had on. And I'm looking forward to listen to the guests you have on this episode as well.
Well, and it's funny you should mention that for anybody who is not familiar with Ead and speaking of which shame on you, I must say because Ead was more than gracious to join us on our Abdul of the Butcher episode from season one.

(02:30:34):
And I thought we had an excellent conversation for anybody who missed out on that episode. I came across Ead because he had done a tremendous video talking exactly that about Abdul the Butcher, his influence in Japan and especially on movies and video games.
And it was it was really eye opening. So I had to get him on the program. He agreed. And that program ended up being one of our most downloaded episodes to date. So I want to thank you for that one. And I want to thank you for for coming on for another little bit of pop culture iconery, if you will.

(02:31:12):
Thank you very much. You humbled me, man. And, you know, you yourself do a lot of work with your show Grappling with Canada and I like seeing how it's growing with every episode. So I would like to congratulate you two on your success with this show.
Well, thank you very much. And for anybody who maybe doesn't quite know what you are all about, do you want to give yourself a little background for anybody who may be a new listener to the program?

(02:31:42):
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Ead. I am from the Kingdom of Bahrain in the Middle East. And I mainly do video gaming content on YouTube and doing it now, I'm guessing eight years, maybe nine, I'm not sure. But as Andy mentioned, I did a video about Abdullah the Butcher and that was technically my first English video that was last year. And it was very popular with a lot of the people, especially with Andy.

(02:32:10):
That's definitely with me.
Yeah, and yeah, that's what I do gaming pop culture, I do mostly in Arabic, but slowly getting into making English videos I have a few in the, in the oven are going to be released soon.
And I've seen, especially lately on Instagram and, and on Twitter as well you've had a couple of TV appearances have you.

(02:32:38):
Yes, just like you, the people at the local TV station here.
They stumbled upon my video as well.
Wow, this guy is in Bahrain wait, hold on, hold on, can somebody get in contact with them. And yeah, I've had a lot of conversation with them even offline and that was just part of the interview we did that got aired.

(02:33:05):
Because they were really interested and that was really nice to get recognized here locally at least and that's the, and that was the exact same channel I used to watch wrestling on.
Oh, no way.
Yeah, that's super cool. What a small world, hey.
Yeah.
I found it interesting too so I did and you had seen this I know on Instagram I did a little map of the world about where where guests of the program have been and you had a point to note that Bahrain is not visible on that map of the world either.

(02:33:38):
No, it's not visible on most maps but also Singapore is not on your map that you posted as well because Bahrain and Singapore are almost the same size. So, they get that treatment in a lot of maps that I've seen.
Well, I tell you if you zoom in real tight you'll be able to see it so just tremendous stuff.

(02:34:01):
And, and once again, sorry go ahead.
No, I was gonna say that it's in your heart now Bahrain and you pronounced it and you pronounce it right so that's always special to us over here.
Yeah, I appreciate that I know sometime my Canadian accent gets in the way as some of my American friends like to let me know once in a while.
So, I appreciate that one.

(02:34:22):
But let's get into what we're talking about tonight and obviously the reason I had you on the program today is the broader picture of the pop culture status, and the pop culture icon that Roddy Piper ended up being is something that has been reported on but I feel like a lot of people just hit the high notes
right now obviously we're going to talk about those in terms of this program tonight. But for yourself and obviously we're going to save the larger conversation for a little bit later in the program but for yourself what would have been your first kind of first time seeing Roddy Piper.

(02:35:01):
Outside of wrestling.
I think it had been probably either Zorro or Robocop, because I used to watch those shows, or maybe even Superboy. Yeah.
Yeah, that's probably where I saw him for the first time and I recognized him and I was like, well that's Piper.

(02:35:26):
That's an observation that many people had right because, and we're going to get into this one right but there's there have been shows over the years like even I caught him on an episode of the outer limits for example.
And it was like, you know, you don't expect to see somebody like Piper on a show like that but there he was man is crazy.
Yeah, extremely underrated and when I went back to check because at first I was going to just talk about the shows that I watched the movies that I know about but I said, hey let me go check other stuff there's got to be more.

(02:35:58):
And I was shocked. There's a lot more not just a little bit more. He was in a lot of things. And this is one of the things I want to start with.
When we get to Piper and movies.
That'll be shocking to you.
So, I think a good way to break up this conversation or this part of the conversation would be to break it up between movie appearances and television appearances because I feel like people kind of conflict the two, where they'll say, you know, either.

(02:36:30):
He was a big movie star, because of they live and they'll point to that and go okay that was a big touchstone moment and people still talk about it today and still find it a relatable movie, if you will today considering today's political environment.
But then you'll have the flip side of that where people have no idea that he was in that or any other movies and they'll point to always studying Philadelphia, for example, and just and just say that he, what he just had the TV career.

(02:36:57):
So, I think we should make the distinction and talk about one and then talk about the other if that's okay with you.
Sure. Let's start with movies and on what you just said.
The issue is why they conflict that he's a TV star is because a lot of his movies were either TV or direct to video.
Yes.

(02:37:18):
And that's where I think a lot of people get confused that they only see him on TV and maybe not on the cinema screens. And that's, you know what, that's a fascinating point that you bring up on I never did think about that one right especially in the advent of, you know, having what 1000 channels at your, your fingertips on your television remote right and if you put something on and you see them right, you wouldn't think that this was a box office movie for example, because it's playing on television.

(02:37:47):
Yeah, exactly.
So then let's, let's get into his movie career because a lot of people will jump to, obviously they live right away but that was not even the first movie that he was involved in a lot of people are very.
I don't know if shocked is a word to say it but a lot of people are interested to hear that that's not the case.
Yeah, exactly. And

(02:38:10):
you're the tax man right Andy so let's start with numbers from the beginning. You like numbers right? Yes, sir.
Yeah, I filed my taxes so don't come after me.
I want you to take a guess how many movies does Piper appear and star in his total number of movies. Okay, well I'm cheating a little bit because I have some forewarning of this but if you would have asked me before I started this program.

(02:38:38):
I would have probably told you 10.
Okay, so Piper appeared and start in a total of 49 movies, which is astounding.
Exactly.
You want to guess how many movies that Hulk Hogan appearing.
Oh, and this would be an actual guess because I've never actually looked I'm going to say.

(02:39:03):
Would it be less than 10.
Just a little bit more.
Let's go 12, just for fun.
A little bit more.
Okay, now you got me I'm totally stumped.
16 movies Hogan was in a total of 16 movies.
I mean, hyper just blows them out of the water.

(02:39:30):
Yeah, exactly. Because people like when they think Hogan okay Hollywood Hulk Hogan, Hogan went to Hollywood and became a movie star.
And he only started in 16 movies.
See to me that's that's shocking as well.
Yeah, and the funny part is out of all of Piper movies, he was the main star of 23 of those movies.

(02:39:57):
So that essentially half right 49 right is the is the original number.
Yeah.
That's incredible to have.
He completely destroyed Hogan in that category.
And, you know, when people think Hogan they think, oh, wrestler movie star.

(02:40:18):
And maybe that's not how they see Piper.
Okay, another comparison.
You want to take a guess how many movies the rock starred in it or appeared and up to today.
Oh, I.
Jesus, I'm gonna say, because I have to figure in the fast and furious aspect of it right now.

(02:40:43):
I'm going to say 25.
No.
Am I, am I in the ballpark.
No, halfway.
He starred in 43 movies total as of today.

(02:41:06):
So even the rock has still like six movies to even tie with even catch up.
Yeah, that's how big that's crazy.
Yeah.
And even I when I was counting those I was shocked.
But the only reason I know that is because I know how many movies.
Wait, wait, no, no, let's have fun with this one.

(02:41:28):
Do you know who's the number one wrestler in the world that has the most number of movies in total.
And he probably starred in all of those movies.
The number one wrestler in the world.
Yeah.
Just for film, right.

(02:41:52):
Hmm.
So if it's not the rock and it's not Piper, who could it be?
Who could it be?
Could it be?
I want to say Jesse Ventura, but I don't think so.
Not even close.
Not even close.
Jesse Ventura is my one of my favorite wrestlers.
And, you know, I always want to wish he had the movie career of Roddy Piper.

(02:42:15):
Yeah, not even close.
Yeah.
Now that I think about that one, not even close.
And I don't think it's our boy Abdullah, although that's kind of my that's kind of my pick that I want to go with here, I think.
No, let me give you a hint.
Think Mexico.
Aluchador.
Oh, Aluchador.
Yeah.
He's probably the greatest Aluchador ever.

(02:42:38):
Is it Rey Mysterio?
No, Rey Mysterio would tell you that that's the greatest Aluchador ever.
I'm drawing a complete blank.
Jesus, my my my Lucha is escaping me right now.
No, I'm not good with Lucha as well, but I know this guy very well and I love him.

(02:43:00):
It's El Santo.
Oh, of course.
Yes, the saint.
And he started 52 movies.
52.
Yes.
So after The Rock ties in with Piper, he needs three more movies.
Well, knowing The Rock, I think he might be getting there.

(02:43:22):
Yeah, The Rock is getting there, but I think Piper got to 49 pretty quickly, to be honest.
And this is a lot of them will be credits in terms of like we're also not counting like him starring on wrestling releases as well either, because if you go on something like IMDb, for example, they kind of lump it all together.

(02:43:48):
Right.
We're talking about actual films.
Yes, this is purely movies.
Appearances are any role or credit, even a cameo.
Yes.
So that's it.
So Piper is up there with El Santo and The Rock.
So that's very, very good.
Super.
And you got to figure like why he's been gone now for what?

(02:44:10):
Has it been six years?
Right.
So and he had appearances in films that had debuted at the same year that he had passed away to.
So think about it that in that aspect as well.
That's pretty crazy.
Yeah, exactly.
So I guess we should we should almost start at the beginning of his film career because a lot of people don't realize how early into his wrestling career and how early into essentially his life that his first film career or his first film credit happened.

(02:44:48):
Yeah, exactly.
It was in 78 and it was uncredited as well. Yes. A wrestling themed movie called The One and Only.
So that was his first appearance and taste of Hollywood, I guess.
Starring Henry Winkler, I believe, as well in that one.
Yeah.

(02:45:10):
I didn't watch this one or that one, but I'm pretty familiar with the other movies he
starred in. And the second movie would have been Body Slam, another wrestling themed movie.
Yes.
This one was in 86, so a few years later.
Yeah. So you're going almost almost a 10 year gap between between appearances.

(02:45:35):
And then this one is obviously not he's not uncredited in that one.
Yes. And imagine how big he got in wrestling from the first movie until the second.
Oh, my God. Yeah.
His reputation was probably bigger at that time.
And then obviously, you know, after that is when we kind of get into the more well known movies, but maybe the one that people it's well known because it's a cult classic.

(02:46:05):
And I think even Piper has come out in in previous interviews that he had done asking people not to talk about it.
And it's one I wanted to pick your brain about, because a lot of people, they either know it intimately well or they have no idea about it.
And that's Hell Comes to Frogtown.
What are you able to discuss about Hell Comes to Frogtown?

(02:46:31):
So I've never watched the movie, even They Live. I've only watched it when I was in university, I think, because there were a lot of videos on YouTube about it.
So I just got curious and watched it for myself. That's for They Live.
So so when you ask me to come on, I'm like, OK, let me watch a movie from Piper's movies that I haven't watched.

(02:46:53):
And I'm like, hey, I never saw Frogtown and it's his first leading role. Yes. So let's go with that.
It seems like a good choice. And to be fair, I've always heard that it's a really, really, really bad movie.
But to be fair, you know, the movie had some moments. It's not the worst movie, but it's not the best movie as well.

(02:47:14):
And I would say, you know, don't judge an actor by the first movie he starred in.
Or or his second, really, because like Buy and Sell, I think, as well came out before They Live.
Yeah, right. So Hell Comes to Frogtown came out in January 88.

(02:47:36):
And to be fair, the movie was OK. But, you know, just I think people give it a hard time because there's a lot of focus on Piper's crotch area.
Yes. And not just not just your run of the mill dick joke either. Right.
There's it's it's camera shots and it's it's physical comedy.

(02:48:02):
And yeah, it's it's out there. It's a freaking device. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. But to be fair, it's not what I heard all these years about it.
It was OK. I didn't stop. I didn't feel like I wanted to check my phone every five minutes.

(02:48:25):
Yes. I think they had a good story. The execution maybe was not that good.
And you got to figure this is, you know, the the special effects in the 80s are not they're not what they are today.
We'll just we'll leave it at that as well. And especially animatronics or whatever they tried to try to pull off their interesting stuff.

(02:48:52):
Yeah. The only like characters are so moist. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I would say that for sure. But yeah, it's it's it's interesting.
Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but it's interesting. You know, 88 is such a such a wide range of roles and successes.

(02:49:22):
Right. And you have three movies that come out and we've we've obviously gone into one buy and sell.
Although it wasn't it wasn't really a starring role, but he had a he had a he had a credited role in that.
And then obviously the biggest one we're going to get into right now, they live is that's the one that people today still talk about.
Yeah. And one of my favorite movies. I love it. I just love it. When I watched it in university, I just kept watching it for days.

(02:49:50):
It's really good. It's really nice. Had that story wise had that Fight Club vibe, I guess, for me at least, because Fight Club is my favorite movie of all time.
Yes. So that's why I like they live. It was it was OK. I get the people who critique it.

(02:50:11):
But, you know, it's a cult classic. People love it. People really, really love it.
And it's interesting to me that now and this is kind of something I touched on earlier in the program.
Now in today's, you know, political climate, I know it's not the same in your part of the world.
And it's certainly it's been interesting in Canada lately, and I'm not going to get into all of that kind of stuff.

(02:50:32):
But it's interesting that a movie like they live finds a whole new life in in today's day and age.
Right. You're you're going what are we almost 30 years after the fact? It's pretty impressive.
Exactly. And you fans find a new meaning. Yes. Well, so that's really good.

(02:50:55):
And and like I said, they live is very special to me because it's probably been referenced and parodied in so many shows that I watch and love.
It's just amazing. Even video games. That's one of the things I love about the movie.
Even video games take inspiration from that movie. For example, do you watch South Park? Yes.

(02:51:16):
Yeah, not a whole lot, but I do catch it when I can.
Did you know that the fight between Jimmy and Timmy is a remake of that fight from what? No. Exactly.
Come on. I was never put together. Wow.
I saw that episode a long time ago. I never connected it.
And then some some time I read about that. I'm like, what? No way.

(02:51:40):
And you can go watch on YouTube. There's a side by side. No way. Yeah, that's awesome.
And you wouldn't think about that when you see Jimmy and Timmy fight. But well, there it is.
Wow. Amazing. That's funny. If South Park parodies, they live, you know, you've got all 100 percent.

(02:52:02):
And that's not only the only TV show. Actually, that's not the only parody of the fight.
In the video game Saints Row 4, Piper and what's the other actors, Keith David, they voiced their characters from the movie.
No, Piper voices himself in the game. Yeah. And they recreate the fight in the game. No way.

(02:52:26):
Yeah. So that fight that's dubbed the world's longest fight scene ever has been
a parody and immortalized in animation form and in video game form.
And I'm sure in other shows as well that I've never watched probably.
And what's what's even more fascinating about that was all him as well.

(02:52:49):
And a lot of from what from what I read, the script at the start had like five empty pages for the fight.
Yes. And they rehearsed it for three weeks and they shot it for for three days. Yes.
By all definitions, it is the longest fight scene in history. And it's it's one where they really wanted to go for realism rather than the real stage or stage if you will.

(02:53:23):
A Hollywood fight sequences. And that's I think that's a testament to Piper just really wanting to, you know, put his mark on on the film in some way, shape or form.
Obviously, you know, we could we could discuss the lines that he adlibbed throughout the movie.
But in terms of an action sequence and for that to carry on all these years and all these different mediums, that's super impressive.

(02:53:46):
Yeah, exactly. Like he wanted, like you said, leave his mark and leave a wrestling mark or a wrestler's mark on that movie in Hollywood.
And I think it's special. People might complain it's long, but there's something there. People like their attention is drawn to that scene no matter how long it is.
But it's it's long, but it's not at the same time, if that makes any sense. Right. Like like you just said, when you're watching it, you're you just get absorbed into the moment and you're just kind of transfixed on what is.

(02:54:19):
And then you then you hear the backstory of it after the fact. Right. Of how much thought and planning and execution and all that stuff went into it.
And now you can really understand why that that specific scene, never mind the the verbiage that came out of the movie that's been, you know, iconic over the years.

(02:54:40):
Right. Why that specific scene would be played out in so many different mediums.
Yeah, exactly. It's appreciated. And to be honest, like when I watched the movie the first few times, I never critiqued the scene being long. But then when you go and watch reviews and other people talk about it and they mention it, you're like, yeah, it was a bit long.

(02:55:03):
But yes. But I didn't notice it personally.
But now I can appreciate it. So then after. Sorry, go ahead. And for the lines in the movie, like one of my favorite games, they have the line like verbatim in the game.
Duke Newcomb and the Duke goes, I have come here to choose. And I'm all out of bubble. And that's one of the like all the fans of the game. They all mentioned that that's their favorite line. Yes, they don't know where it comes from.

(02:55:40):
Which to me, that's another just, you know, we're talking touchstone moments out of one film brought to us by Piper himself. Right. And there's another prime example.
Exactly. And one last video game factoid in the it doesn't have to do with they live, but it has to do with Piper in the Simpsons video game on the PS2 in the first couple of 30 minutes or so.

(02:56:10):
Homer says a line that's that's the most evil plan I ever heard. It's like the Iron Sheik had a baby with Roddy Roddy Piper times a billion. I always love that like line.
It always stuck with me and I always use it from that's fantastic. Yeah. And then obviously that's that's his biggest starring movie role and there's a ton of movies.

(02:56:41):
I'm like you said like some of the more direct to video after that like you had in 91 I believe it was was tag team that was like straight to straight to TV. Team was a pilot for TV show.
That was a TV show. Oh, you're right. Yes, that's right. A lot of people get it confused for a movie. Now was was that the one with Jesse Ventura. Yes. Okay. Right. Because he I think he was the one who approached the studio and then they and then got Piper involved.

(02:57:14):
I believe it's the backstory of that one. Yes. Yes. Because I love that just event. You're probably like a lot of people might not like this but he's up there at number one type with all the other number one wrestlers I like just for the promos.
Like if you ask me what Jesse Ventura's finisher is I couldn't tell you point a gun at me. Yeah. But ask me about his promo on Madison Square Garden in 1985. Yeah. Word for word. Yeah. Or his commentary lines from so and so as matches I can I can give you all of that.

(02:57:50):
Yeah, I know I love Piper on our story. I love Ventura on commentary. I always thought that he was just so so tremendous for it for the WWF and Ventura always said that he never had friends in the wrestling except for Piper. That's right too. Yes. I completely forgot about that.
Yeah. He always said he never trust that. No. I think maybe Jesse is what we today call an introvert or something back then. He was always probably listening to music or reading a book. But he said the only guy you know he'd had conversations with is like Piper and maybe Bob Hinn from time to time.

(02:58:30):
And it's interesting you know based on everything that we got out of part one of this series you know talking to Cam Connor and talking to Vance Navada and that's the one thing that they said about Piper as well right. He didn't trust anybody and he kept his business his business right.
So it's interesting it's very interesting that he would have that connection in relationship with Jesse Ventura who by all accounts was the same kind of thing. Now granted some of that I'm sure is from when Jesse got burned on the whole you know union deal.

(02:59:06):
But you know irregardless of that it's very interesting that those two would have and form a strong connection in in and outside of professional wrestling.
Yeah they found similarities in each other and you kind of see it in their characters even in their like persona and promos and their intensity in wrestling as well.

(02:59:28):
So as we kind of progress through the film career you know in the early 90s he's still doing different projects right. There was I believe Resort to Kill was was still mid 90s and back to back in action as well.
Yeah and then 90s he he was active very active like he had at least one project every year. That's right yes. If not three like in total in the 90s he was in 16 movies so just in the 90s he beats Hogan's entire career.

(03:00:02):
Yeah exactly yes. So when it comes to movies so that's very interesting but one movie I really have to mention because I've watched that movie and I have a love hate relationship with it. It's a bad movie but there are a lot of interesting things about this movie.
It's Immortal Kombat. Yes okay let's get into this one a little bit. Immortal Kombat and I think it has another name but I don't know what the other name I'm blanking on the other name. But Immortal Kombat came out in 1992 and he co-stars with Sonny Chiba. Does that name sound familiar to you?

(03:00:42):
No it doesn't I can't say. Okay so Sonny Chiba also co-starred or was in the movie Roaring Fire with Abdullah the Butcher. Oh no way. Yeah so there's a nice connection there like Sonny Chiba starred or was in movies with Piper and Abdullah the Butcher.

(03:01:06):
And that's not the only interesting thing about this movie. This fact was unknown for years until Jericho mentioned it on his podcast but Jericho and Art Barr were also in Immortal Kombat. Oh no way. They're uncredited. Yeah they're uncredited.
So what happened was I think Jericho I don't know where this would have been but he was with Art Barr for a while. They were either living with each other or working together in the same promotion at the time.

(03:01:39):
This is in the early 90s so it's probably Mexico. So while Piper was on set because Piper trained Art Barr and so whatever happened he contacted them and asked them to come and join him on set just to hang around.
And while they were on set you know they were like hey do you want to be in the movie? And they're like yeah sure. So I've spotted Jericho in the movie but I've never spotted Art Barr.

(03:02:06):
Even Jericho he's filmed from behind and from the side and you never get to see his face but you know Jericho's build and hair you can tell that's him. And the funny thing is his scene is like three seconds only and he gets kicked in the face by Sonny Chiba.
There you go. So that's a really interesting fact. And they went uncredited I think until now. I think I heard Jericho mention this like I want to say maybe five years ago or something. Yeah I think around the time Piper passed away.

(03:02:43):
And I went and watched the movie and I couldn't find Jericho so I kept watching it. That's a bad movie. So I just kept watching it and I'm like where's Jericho? I need to find him. And I'm pretty confident that's him.
That's funny. Speaking of bad movies that people love to hate would be back in action and that was with Billy Blanks as well who a lot of people my generation even a little bit older than me would know that you know Billy Blanks and TV Kung Fu was kind of the big thing back in the early 90s but that's another one.

(03:03:20):
I think even Vance Nevada had mentioned it in part one of just you're talking bad movies. It's a bad movie but it's one that just it's so bad it's good maybe is the proper way to say it.
Guilty pleasure. Yeah maybe that's a better way to say it. Yeah.

(03:03:42):
But you know what, you know, going through all the list of Piper's movies to be honest Piper is probably the action movie star Hulk Hogan which he was. That's true. Yeah.
And Piper put in the work, let alone the number of movies he was acting and he had movies every year and he never stopped like he only took a hiatus between 2000 and 2005 for movies only. But from 2005 until he passed away he wasn't a movie at least every year.

(03:04:17):
Which is crazy as well and another crazy thing that we're going to circle back to this topic in a second as well.
But yeah it's it's wild to think how active he was right and you you look down the list and legitimately as from, you know, mid 90s till he passed away it's almost a movie a year.

(03:04:41):
Except for 2012 and like I said he's the action star 80s action star even though he was in the 90s acting in the 90s. He was I would consider him an 80s action movie star and I'm it's a shame they never had him on expendables.
Yeah no kidding he would have been perfect on that movie. Exactly all those other 10 million guys. Yeah. You couldn't have Piper.

(03:05:07):
Who actually fits that role if you think about it in the way that you thought about himself that totally fits him right.
Exactly don't we make fun of like Sylvester some of Sylvester Stallone's movies or don't we make fun of what's the other guy's name.
What's the other guy's name. Like John Claude Van Damme they make fun of him and and yeah all those all the like.

(03:05:33):
Yes yes yes all the late all the Kung Fu whatever like the American style if you will.
Yes see taxman it's a numbers games the more movies you make the more bad movies.
That's true story you got me there.
Simple math simple math not even Steiner math it's simple math.
Now what I wanted to kind of backtrack to is is what's almost as impressive as the amount of movies that he was storing or you know having a leading role in some way shape or form in you know all the way from the 90s into the 2000s.

(03:06:08):
And like you said there was that very you know brief in the grand scheme of things break where he had in the late 2000s.
But mixed into all of that is all of his television appearances and this is more than the movies.
This is what really got me because there are titles here that I watched.

(03:06:29):
Oh God oh a vast majority of these series as a kid.
And as I was going through the list and we're going to get into a little bit of this you know as we discuss but there's shows on here where I've seen that episode.
And sometimes I've recognized it when I saw it at the time now granted this is you know 20 years ago.

(03:06:52):
But I recognize that the time and still didn't put it together.
And now looking back at the list and like I said we're going to get into it in a second it's it's like.
It's absolutely mind blowing to think how active he was in acting it's it's crazy.
Exactly the guy put in the work hyper put in the work.

(03:07:15):
And it's not like he was on like I know you know we've been kind of poking fun and having fun with the kind of movies that he was you know a part of what not in a not in a way to make fun of him.
But you know it's it's just a fun way to look at nostalgia right.
But you look at some of the television series that he was involved in like their big budget TV series.

(03:07:42):
Yeah exactly and there are all the shows that he was on or most of them they're all like cultural icons these shows are the characters.
Yes they are.
So you if you are in the 90s you definitely would have watched at least one or two of these shows and I've probably watched them all most of it was then.

(03:08:05):
So yeah I'm going to get into it but let's start with the first show he was in which was a pilot again with the pilots Piper.
What's wrong with Hollywood why don't you pick up the shows Piper was in.
Yeah come on now.
Yeah a show called Highwayman from 87 and this is the pilot and he was one of the main characters a part of the gang.

(03:08:30):
He was the preacher that's his name and his position probably.
But the show is described as a Mad Max meets Knight Rider show and I watched the pilot and looks interesting.
It had potential but what would have been Piper's first TV appearance on a TV show is my absolute favorite.

(03:08:54):
His first appearance was on the Super Mario Bros Super Show from 89 and he played Piper himself.
That's right.
And obviously Mario was Captain Lu Albano.
That's right yeah.
That has to be one of my favorite Piper appearances.

(03:09:16):
Sorry go ahead.
Go ahead.
What's interesting is for as much as his film career kind of was in that same vein for the most part of the action style of movies his television appearance was kind of all over the map which I find interesting as well.

(03:09:38):
Yeah definitely played good guys bad guys comedy.
That's very interesting.
So yeah and see from the start he was with another popular icon of gaming Mario.
Yes.
So again we have these different cultural touchstones again intersecting.

(03:10:00):
Yeah and another intersections here you mentioned tag team which was a pilot for a TV show from 1991 and he co-starred with Jesse Ventura and Piper's name of the show was tricky Rick McDonald and Jesse's name was Billy the body young blood.

(03:10:22):
Which is tremendous.
Yeah. And in the first episode they faced. I think they were called the Samurais in the show but they were actually the Orient Express managed by Mr. Fuji Patanaka and Sato.
That's funny.
Yeah the story of the show is that they were really popular wrestlers that get blackballed so they end up becoming cops and that's where the dynamic between the two characters and cops come in to play in the show which is funny.

(03:10:54):
So let's just queue in on that for one second.
How close that is to real life because Jesse Ventura was blackballed from the WWF for trying to start the union.
Piper was and for a video game and for the video game. That's right. Yes you're correct. Right.
And then Piper was kind of blackballed as well when he quit to go do the movies that and Vince had the famous line I believe it was where like oh he'll never make it in in film and obviously that's we all saw the end result of it and then there's the the theory and I'm not sure how true this is and maybe this is something I need to look into a little bit more.

(03:11:36):
And if I find information I'll relay it later in the episode but there was a theory that that's why Vince pushed Hogan so much in movies after the success that Roddy Piper had is because he was upset that Roddy Piper essentially proved him wrong.
Now whether that's conjecture or or fact it warrants a little bit more exploration but these you know the two aspects that I just alluded to right being the blackballing of both individuals by the WWF and how it would play into this television pilot.

(03:12:17):
It's a little bit closer to truth than fiction. It's very interesting.
Yeah now that you say it doesn't sound like a theory. Oh how wrong was Vince and you didn't push Hogan enough Vince not even close.
You know now that you said yeah that's probably exactly what happened so shame on the studio that didn't pick up the show to be honest, because it would have been a slap to Vince's face and Hogan's face.

(03:12:43):
100%.
And you know they had chemistry on screen to be honest. You can find the pilot, anyone who's interested it's on YouTube.
And a lot of people like did like screening for this pilot and they analyze it dissected so it's very interesting people really seem to like the concept and idea and probably Piper and Jesse the body as well.

(03:13:14):
So we're kind of talking about you know how mainstream some of these television series were that he was starting in the 90s and I came across one that I didn't know that he had started, but a little bit of backstory.
I'm a big Star Trek fan and on our local television here before they would air an episode of The Next Generation in the early 90s before that would be Highlander. And I didn't know that Piper was on an episode of Highlander until I read it via the research for this program tonight.

(03:13:50):
I didn't know that there was a TV show Highlander TV show I know about the movie just recently a friend of mine told me I had to watch it. Yeah, I didn't finish it I watched like maybe 1520 minutes of it. But apparently this is a sequel but it's in the future or whatever.
Yes, so it was very interesting to find that Piper was in it as well.
And the outro music is is Queens.

(03:14:27):
I told you I'm gonna forget some stuff right. Oh, you got the classic yet notes I love it.
Yeah, can we backtrack a little bit today live again, please.
Okay, so the band Green Day, their music video to back in the USA is completely inspired by they live on no way.

(03:14:48):
Yeah, I've never watched the video until now I know the song, but I've never watched the video. I haven't seen that video in forever.
Yeah, they use the glasses and the whole aliens thing and stuff. It's really nice really really nice you know, not to the movie. That's fantastic I'd.

(03:15:09):
I need to go watch that again I think.
So, now Highlander the song was, what was the song again. Princess of the universe.
Yes, so good. And then there's another television series again in that same timeframe that he had started that you and I were actually talking about off there before we got into this one so why you tell them about the RoboCop episode.

(03:15:39):
Oh, the RoboCop episode. So, within the RoboCop episode, the RoboCop universe there's a, like a parody commercial commercial is the superhero called Commander cash.
Like, within this TV show you get to see clips from his cartoon and stuff. That's right.
And they're like, Commander cash toys and basically I think that's a reference to capitalism in general. So, in the future, in the RoboCop universe so in one of the episode piper dresses up as commander cash and does basically good deeds.

(03:16:18):
And so, in the episode RoboCop is conflicted if he should stop him or not, because even when a commander cash talks and RoboCop scans him to see if he's lying or not, he sees that he's telling the truth and he's actually a good guy.
So, that's a very interesting episode where RoboCop is conflicted he, he, like his programming doesn't allow him to arrest the guy.

(03:16:44):
Yes. Yeah.
And I found a really nice clip of this from that period so this, the shooting for that episode happened around I think WrestleMania 10.
And I think there was no context to the clip, but from what I can tell, I think piper was doing a make a wish thing for a kid dressed as commander cash on a way it was on set.

(03:17:11):
Yeah, it's very nice and very touching. I loved it. I just saw it like today.
That's cool. That's so cool.
Yeah, so the kid, I think the kid came to visit him on set, and they were talking about wrestling I think this happened like immediately after WrestleMania 10, which is one of my favorite WrestleMania, actually my favorite WrestleMania for Brett and Owen.
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people a lot of people go ahead and go ahead and see that as well. I mean it's it's right up there in terms of all time greats for myself as well.

(03:17:41):
Yeah, and I don't know how I came across it, it was just recommended to me the video so thank you YouTube algorithm.
The one time they actually come through for us a.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was yeah and that like and again like the Robocop, you know franchise in itself is iconic right now was a bit. It was a big TV show in the 90s I know it like some of it is campy or whatever and I'm you can't look at it with 2022 eyes either but just a tremendous

(03:18:15):
same power that series has, and another series that has tremendous same power that it again was a one off episode but he starred in an episode of the outer limits.
And this is not this is not the one, like because there's two iterations of the outer limits, right there was one that ran from I believe the 70s to the 80s and there was one that ran from, I want to say, 95 to the early 2000s it was, it was produced here in Canada, and that's one that I grew up on.

(03:18:47):
And I'm, I don't really remember the episode that he was in per se but I know as a whole that series was just so iconic and there's so there's so many mind bending and super creepy aspects about that show.
Yeah, I had never watched the show but about Robocop as a kid, I've never missed an episode of Robocop.

(03:19:12):
Oh, no way.
I've never, it was on the same channel that I was on, Channel 55. I've never missed an episode of Robocop.
That's funny and again like these things that you would never think that he would be a part of, he is and then again, this goes further to our conversation about just a wide range of different types of shows and different types of characters that he portrays on in television,

(03:19:42):
as opposed to how it really was for his film career.
Yeah, and let's go back to the early 90s. In 1990, he was in the Zorro show.
Oh, that's right too, totally missed that.
Yeah, and I loved Zorro, and I love that show specifically. And he was, he appeared twice as two different characters in two different seasons, in season two and season three.

(03:20:08):
And the funny thing is, in season three, Jesse Ventura also appears in another episode.
Oh,
so Piper plays like a good guy and a bad guy on Zorro in two different seasons.
And gets, well, I don't know if he got Ventura in there but it is interesting that they have, again, their careers kind of path or careers cross paths, if you will.

(03:20:32):
Yeah, exactly. Especially in this early 90s era when like we mentioned, they were blackballed or they were not with the WWE.
Now his television career, although he has, you know, quite a few roles and again, you know, it's year after year after year, he's in at least one project, all the way up until essentially the late 90s and then there's a bit of a break as well in the 2000s.

(03:20:58):
So not as, not as active per se as the film side of it but still very impressive to be going, you know, 10 plus years essentially in television with recurring roles in how many different franchises.
And still being in wrestling.
And still being, and that's, that's the other part that I think a lot of us forget right is, you know,

(03:21:22):
between WWE and WCW.
That's right. And I understand that he wasn't as active in the WWF.
But when he went to WCW, although he didn't necessarily go there to be featured he was on quite a few of the shows from, what would that have been 98 to 2000 I believe.

(03:21:43):
Yeah, to the final days, not final, yeah, 2000.
Well, yeah, there's a lot of different stories about what happened there whether they released him or they fired him or he walked out or whatever and that's, you know, that's something that we would have to explore in a whole different segment and that's not really the you know, the point of this

(03:22:04):
portion of our conversation tonight but it's just, it's one of those things to keep in mind in the back of our minds right wrestling is still the essentially primary focus of his career.
Then you have the films.
Yeah, and then you have the films and then you have television on top of that so you're looking at essentially three different career trajectories, all converging in the same time space it's, it's crazy to think how we held it all together to be honest.

(03:22:35):
Yeah, and it must have been hard for his family as well.
Yeah, and that's the other part of it to it and this is something that we heard from Vance in in Episode one and he really, you know hit the nail on the head for a lot of it is that he would keep his family, separate from all of this so you think like he's essentially juggling
four careers, which is wild right.

(03:23:01):
Two more shows from the 90s I have for you that I watched and love. Yeah, let's get into it.
Superboy in 1992. He played a character called Adrian temple. That was basically, he was a bad guy, he was a gym owner that would lure people to his gym and absorb their youth.
So he can be immortal.

(03:23:23):
Very interesting.
And a lot of people don't love the Superboy show but I've watched it. I can't say I've ever seen it to be honest. Yeah, it's not the one before Lewis and Clark. Okay, I see the more, the more popular one. Yes.
And then we have, I think, everybody's favorite TV show Walker, Texas. That's right. I can't believe I forgot to mention that.

(03:23:48):
Yeah, everybody's favorite Chuck Norris. I have the Chuck Norris book, joke book right in front of me right.
So he played a wrestler called Cody the Crusader Conway.
The most interesting fact or thing in that episode was he had an arcade machine in his house that was named after him. So the arcade game was called Cody the Crusader Conway, the arcade game.

(03:24:19):
And if that prop is in a Hollywood studio or warehouse anywhere. I would really love to have it.
That would be, yeah, that would be a tremendous addition to somebody's collection.
Yeah, it has to be somewhere. I have to find it.

(03:24:41):
So obviously, and like we've been saying, right, he had basically a series or a show a year in terms of television, but then he kind of Peters out in the 2000s until about mid 2000, I believe is what it is.
At the same time, he came back for movies like 2005, 2006.

(03:25:05):
And I mean, like there's lots of one offs as well. A lot of these series I've never seen before. Couple of them I have heard of, but never watched like cold case. I've never watched it, but I've heard of it, for example.
But the one that obviously we talked about quite a bit in and I know I'm kind of jumping all over the place and please feel free to backtrack if there's anything important that I missed.
But World of Hurt. Obviously that series is something that we discussed quite heavily last month's episode with Vest Nevada. World of Hurt. Is that something that you ever watched?

(03:25:38):
I've never watched it.
Yeah, it's kind of like a behind the scenes look at professional wrestling and I guess fighting in general as well. So, but again, I thought Vance did a fantastic job last month of kind of getting into the headspace that everybody was in on that show.

(03:25:59):
And then obviously the one big one that everybody talks about is always sunny in Philadelphia.
Now, I have to admit it's not my kind of show. So I'm really not familiar with the episodes or the context that Piper was presented in.
Although I have seen clips of Piper on always sunny on YouTube and things like that. So is this something that this seems like that would be right up your alley in terms of all the other programs that you watch?

(03:26:31):
You sound like all my friends, but buddy, me and you, people hate us for this, but I've never watched a single episode.
Oh, well, I'm not the only one.
Exactly. But all my friends watch it and love it and they always keep sending me the Piper clips because even the people who don't watch wrestling but watch that show, they tell me that the Piper episode is the best episode.

(03:26:56):
Yes.
He was in two episodes actually.
And that was something that like I was talking with Craig Baird even before and after our conversation last month on last month's episode.
And just him seeing Piper on there just blew his mind. And then those ended up being some of his favorite episodes, I believe, as well at the same time.

(03:27:17):
So again, we're talking about Piper being part of these real touchstone television series.
This is a very popular show.
Yes, it is. You know what? To be quite honest, for years I had heard some people talk about it, but not a whole lot.
And I never really paid it a whole lot of mine because again, it's not necessarily my thing, which is fine, you know.

(03:27:43):
To each his own.
Yeah, yeah. For the people who like that kind of thing, that's the kind of thing those people like to quote somebody that we both know.
But I didn't realize how popular it was until I started looking into his career and seeing just the absolute beast audience rate that this thing pulls in.

(03:28:07):
It's crazy.
And just like they live, this episode is referenced a lot.
Yes, it is too. That's right.
And he played the maniac, the maniac. The person you just mentioned that we know loves that show.
It's always Sonny.
Yes, yes, he does. Yeah. If anybody knows who we're talking about, then you know, you know.

(03:28:29):
So a funny thing about Danny DeVito and Piper, in one of the Madison Square Garden shows from the 80s, Piper interrupts Danny DeVito.
That's right, too. And I've seen that on YouTube.
Yeah, I remember that because I think Jesse was on that show as well.

(03:28:50):
And the episode that he first appeared in, apparently they were having a wrestling show that's like a tribute to the troops thing.
It was a parody. I never watched it. So that's what my friends always tell me. They're like, you like it. You're going to like it.
I swear to God. I'm like, I don't want to watch it.
I love Piper and I've seen that those clips. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. It's good. Go ahead.

(03:29:16):
People like that show and like that episode specifically. Yeah, exactly.
And if you're mad that we don't like always Sonny and Phil Delafio, go ahead and send your hate tweets to add six underscore podcast. That's OK.
But for yourself and this and I want to tie this back into the into a lot of the work that you do on the YouTube page is

(03:29:38):
when you're doing these projects like going into the pop culture aspect of video games and
television and movies and music and film, all these kind of things that seem to be recurring themes with your with your productions.
How interesting and this is not specifically related to Piper, but I want to keep on to that aspect as well.

(03:30:01):
But how interesting is it for you to see just how much of, you know, everyday pop culture is actually derived from professional wrestling?
Oh, my God. That's my bread and butter these last couple of years with my content.
And like we mentioned earlier, like Piper tangled with Super Mario, Zorro, Robocop, Chuck Norris and Superboy.

(03:30:26):
Yes, those are big names in pop culture, like the biggest Superman, Superboy Zorro, Zorro inspired Batman and Robocop was very big in the 80s and early 90s.
And Chuck Norris is Chuck Norris. Yeah, who's still relevant.
It's incredibly his his staying power, I should say, is incredible.

(03:30:50):
Yeah, so Piper left his mark in all those shows that he appeared in and alongside all these other iconic characters.
So it's not wrong to say that Piper is iconic within the world of pop culture and TV and movies.
Yeah, I have to I have to 100 percent agree with that.
He's iconic in wrestling. We all know that. Us wrestling fans, we all know that for a fact.

(03:31:14):
That's a fact. You can't do anything about that. But the same applies when it comes to TV and movies.
And like we mentioned at the beginning, he beat Hogan. That's very important for me.
No, like probably a lot of projects came to Piper and he said yes to most of them from what we can see.
And probably Hogan was the opposite.

(03:31:36):
He was very protective about how he's depicted in movies and the characters he portrays.
Probably that's why he wasn't in much movies.
And plus, Hogan was on top for a lot of years, so that kind of doesn't give him much time for movies and TV, I guess.
If I would play devil's advocate here, but still Piper beat Hogan and that thing.

(03:31:57):
So Vince, you were wrong. You know, you're dead wrong.
And that's and that's really what I wanted to use.
The second part of this Piper story to really encapsulate is first off the staying power,
which I think that Roddy Piper staying power is incredible, not just in professional wrestling like you illustrated,

(03:32:18):
but his staying power in the general landscape of popular culture.
Right. And people still to this day, you know, quote the movies or quote the TV series or quote the characters
that he's played in either or. Right.
And keep sending me the maniac or that too. Right.

(03:32:40):
And then there's there's how many times you've heard over the years somebody make a reference to a Piper, you know, action or what or reaction or whatever.
And maybe they don't know it's him. Right.
And then they then they look back on, OK, where did this come from?
Where did the line, you know, I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and a mole of bubble gum.

(03:33:04):
Yeah, I've heard that. Where did it come from?
And then, you know, to find out the backstory of it. Right.
And that's something that, you know, we could get on a whole, you know, diatribe of the Internet if it's good or not or whatever.
But for for myself, the fact that you can now go and look back at all of these clips and all this information and all of these these moments and see where they actually originated from and how many of them originate back to to Piper is it's really, really impressive.

(03:33:38):
And I think a lot of people don't realize that because for a lot of wrestling fans, they just associate him with wrestling.
Yeah, even me, like going back right now, I was like shocked and, you know, I kind of took him for granted when it comes to movies and TV shows.
Yeah. And you're not the only one either. And that's something else I wanted to, you know, really.

(03:34:02):
I know we're kind of beaten and beaten a dead horse, if you will, but I feel like it has to be done. Right.
But yeah, but it has it has to be done because this is I almost can't overstate it enough. Right.
Like it's and that's again the whole premise of this program is bringing facts like this to life.

(03:34:23):
Honestly, like, you know, anybody can read IMDb or anybody can can look at this, but it's different when you hear it.
Right. And when and like when I'm sitting here hearing you talk about the sheer amount of product projects.
Right. To me, that is more impactful than just reading it. You know what I mean?

(03:34:44):
Exactly. And plus, like, I haven't watched every Piper movie. I've probably seen 80 percent of Hogan's movies.
I've probably seen 75 percent of the Rock's movies, but I haven't seen a fraction of Piper's movies.
And, you know, shame on me. I should go back and watch the bad movie or not.

(03:35:06):
You should go watch them because he was in a lot of things.
So us as wrestling fans and Leo, I love Piper. He's one of the best and icon of wrestling.
So he should go and watch those movies, at least the movies he was the lead in them.
And I have to say, I'm going to go back and find that episode of Outer Limits because now I have to now that I've talked myself up, I got to go back and watch that one.

(03:35:31):
I'll probably go watch the Highlander episode.
Tremendous. Yeah. And again, greatest outro music in probably television history. So I'm going to go into London, maybe, that's the case. But but anyways, I had for yourself,
you know, as we kind of wrap up this portion of the program, what do you have coming down your wicked mind of pop culture references?

(03:35:58):
First, actually, before we get into that, we have to discuss a little bit of controversy that involved yourself.
And I don't we're not going to mention this podcasters name.
However, however, there's a video that you had put together for somebody who we had referenced earlier on in this episode.

(03:36:20):
So for people who who like that kind of thing, that's the kind of thing those people like. Where can they find that specific video? Is that one on YouTube?
Oh, the video itself, I thought you're you're you wanted me to cut the promo on him. No, no.
Well, we can get into that, too. That's what that's what they are.
And that's who they are. And I wouldn't expect anything less of them. So they did what they always do. So they're consistent. And I love them both.

(03:36:51):
Hard feelings on my part. But the video, it's it's on Twitter right now.
But because I want to make a video component, it's not a video. It's just the song.
OK, now I want to I'm not going to release it on YouTube until I finish the video element.
Oh, OK. Gotcha. So the heat I got from this guy actually gave me more time to work on the video.

(03:37:19):
It's a timely song. So I refer to it as a wrestling Christmas song, to be honest.
Ah, there we go. Yeah. So I was rushing everything, but I wanted to make a video and I have two more songs that will follow that one.
And this gives me time to work on the video element because I'm a video guy, you know.

(03:37:41):
Oh, yes. I did the song and it was good.
You know, I have I don't think my voice should be a singing voice, but I'll pull it off.
But I'll be much happier and satisfied when I see the video element added to that song.
And there are at least two songs that will follow that on the same thing.

(03:38:05):
I know we're talking riddles right now, guys, but these are all secret projects. So what can I do?
Yeah. OK. So now for that, for the English projects that are not riddles, where can people go and find those?
OK, it's just the one single English project, but I'm working on two as well.
I stopped one because I want to make it a longer video.

(03:38:29):
But the next one will be about Super Mario, which I recently interviewed. Oh, fantastic.
You can find that. You can find that interview on my channel on ForgeekSizeOnly.
And recently there was a wrestler called he went by the name of Super Mario.
So that was the interview. But the video I'm releasing is about three wrestlers that use the Super Mario name.

(03:38:56):
Oh, excellent. Yeah. So that's where, you know, the pop culture comes in gaming and wrestling.
That's what I do. I mix two things, two worlds.
And because we have an international audience as well, and, you know, obviously more people than just myself who listen to this program are not just, you know, predominantly English speaking.

(03:39:19):
So tell me a little bit about your other channel and what you got going on there.
So about that, you know, that the Avdila the Butcher video probably has views from a lot of places.
I'm not going to say I never heard of, but I this is the first time I maybe interact with people from these countries.
I'm not surprised. Yeah.

(03:39:41):
Abby's very international. Like that video shocks me till this day because I'll get a I'll get a comment from I think Tajikistan.
I'm like, what? Yeah, where is that? It's next to Kazakhstan. And I'll get a comment from where was it?

(03:40:04):
You know, a lot of Latin American countries, Puerto Rico, Chile and other countries.
So I'm like, Abby's international. He's even bigger than we thought he was. Yes.
So what was your question? I kind of about about the other channel that you run because I know it's not English specific.

(03:40:27):
But again, we don't have just an English speaking audience. OK.
So my Arabic channel is for each size only, like I mentioned over eight years now.
And to be honest, I'm having fun with it now because I'm kind of delving in not different topics, but at the beginning it was I don't want to say it was mainly a video.
But I kind of focused on video games first. But, you know, the fact that my followers, like they're really interested in what my views on other things like movies or.

(03:40:58):
So even my Arabic followers, they love that.
They love the butcher video and a lot of them watched it, even though maybe their English is not not that good. Yes, but they loved it and they are like, guilting me to making an Arabic version of it.

(03:41:19):
And so with the English channel, I first said, OK, I'm going to take my popular videos in Arabic and just translate them. But I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's kind of cheating and very cheap, like cheap heat.
Yes. Yeah. I want the other channel to stand out and be unique as well.
And yeah, so the Arabic channel, like I said, gaming and different topics and the videos I have lined up for this year or the next couple of months are very interesting, though.

(03:41:50):
The about wrestling, cartoons, comics, a lot of video games, a lot of old video games and some weird topics here and there.
When I say weird, I mean like something you wouldn't think of, like a mixture you wouldn't think of, like Super Mario and wrestling.
Tremendous. Well, I can't wait to see what you come up with.

(03:42:14):
Like I said, that is the original reason why we were brought together is the incredible work that you had done on that Abdul the Butcher video.
And it's for me personally, it's so fun to see your progression in terms of your knowledge and perception and interpretation of popular culture into these videos.

(03:42:38):
And then again, it's always super cool when you see someone that you've met from the essentially the other side of the world on television.
And it was really it was a thrill for me to see that. And I'm so proud of you.
And I hope that I hope that you keep it up because it's it's great to see from over here in frosty Canada.

(03:43:00):
Thank you, man. You humble me. Thank you for your kind words.
Thank you for having me again on your show and making me the official pop culture expert.
Yeah, you're your book now. That's the moniker, man. You got it.
So I'm so proud. Very happy day. Thank you very much. It means a lot to me.
It's not something I'll take for granted.

(03:43:21):
And I am eternal eternally grateful for Abdullah the Butcher for bringing us together.
The Bahrain, Winnipeg connection over here.
Yes, sir. Now, before I actually let you go, where can everybody get in touch with you?
So I'm on YouTube for geek size only and the English Channel is one thousand and one games. But if you just search Abdullah the Butcher, Japan,

(03:43:48):
my video should pop up or Japanese pop culture.
My British pop up and they'll take you directly to the video canceling the middle guy.
My channel. Yes. But and on social media, I'm at four geek size only as well.
That's one word. And I think that's it. And Twitter is Twitter's personal.

(03:44:10):
So if you want to add me, you know, you are eighty two oh nine nine.
But not much of pop culture, mostly wrestling, because all the wrestlers are on. Yes.
Are on Twitter and our dear friend and leader is on Twitter. Yes. Yes. The leader. Yeah.
All right, man. It's been an absolute pleasure. I can't thank you enough for your time tonight in enlightening us on once again,

(03:44:37):
the astounding pop culture relevance of Roddy Piper, man. This has been an absolute treat. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. And like I said, I've already filed my taxes. So tremendous.
Now, there's one more aspect of Roddy Piper's influence on pop culture that I didn't get to speak with yet about.

(03:45:01):
And that is relating to music. Now, many people will be familiar with Rick Flair's influence specifically on hip hop culture.
And rightfully so, because let's face it, Rick Flair is like the epitome of, you know, blowing money and, you know, riding high and living the flashy lifestyle.

(03:45:26):
Definitely hallmarks of pop culture influence on hip hop throughout the years.
However, I was absolutely shocked to see the amount of artists, the amount of songs that have been influenced by, written about or specifically tailored for Roddy Piper.

(03:45:50):
There are legitimately thousands of songs out there from every genre that you could think of.
Everything from rap and hip hop.

(03:46:27):
To all kinds of rock music like punk, post hardcore, hardcore, pop punk.

(03:46:57):
Rock music.
Rock music.

(03:47:22):
Rock music.

(03:47:46):
To instrumentals written about and for him.
And whatever this one is.
Roddy Roddy Piper.
Again, I had no idea that Roddy Piper would also be such a mainstay in music.

(03:48:14):
And like I said, you could go through whatever music platform you listen to, probably very similar to what you're listening to this podcast on.
And there are legitimately thousands and thousands of songs, all of which are related in some way, shape or form to Roddy Roddy Piper.
So not only do you have obviously the massive impact that he had on professional wrestling, undeniable.

(03:48:41):
You also have the impact on film and television, much of which we still see today, even in 2022, which is incredible.
And actually, funny enough, he had had DM to me after we had done recording and he had stumbled upon an episode of American Tad,
which had another Roddy Roddy Piper kind of homage in one of the episodes.

(03:49:07):
So just when you think we covered everything, there is so much more out there.
We are still finding it to this day, and I'm quite certain that it's going to continue in the future.
And now, obviously, finding his impact on music just it's incredible how one man can shape all of these different venues of pop culture is absolutely incredible.

(03:49:34):
Mind blowing, if you will, and just another aspect of the rowdy Roddy Piper story that I really thought that I should speak about in tonight's episode.
Now, before we close out the program tonight, I have a little bit more classic Roddy Piper audio.

(03:49:56):
This comes from the So Bad Is Good Hell Comes to Frogtown movie.
And after that, I have another guest appearance dropping into the program.
And then we're going to get to the finish of the program.
Make sure you stay tuned at the end of the program because I have some exciting things in the wings, waiting in the wings, if you will,

(03:50:22):
for Grappling with Canada and a few special projects potentially happening in the future.
So please enjoy some more rowdy Roddy Piper audio.
And then on the back side, make sure you stick around for some tremendous projects that are in the works for Grappling with Canada.
Please enjoy.

(03:51:09):
Is this accurate?
Mr. Hellman, I can understand why you're so popular with the ladies.
You've left a string of pregnancies everywhere you've been.
It's a fact.
You have the highest spermatozoan count we've ever tested.
Must have been all that fiber I ate when I was a kid.

(03:51:30):
I'm authorized to offer you a clean slate.
All charges dropped.
Now, MedTech's main assignment is to locate and impregnate fertile women in the wastelands.
Now, we need potent young men in the fields to assist in this great work.
Men who can take care of themselves, who know the territory, who can perform under difficult conditions.
Do you feel up to it?

(03:51:52):
Are you serious?
Well, maybe you'd rather we sent you back to Devlin.
Well, on the other hand, I've always been a patriot.
Sign this.

(03:52:30):
The war reduced our male population by 68%.
It made most of the human race sterile.
But we're still at war.
A population war.
Each side is desperate to rebuild and rearm.
Now, that requires manpower.
Manpower requires people.

(03:52:52):
And that's where you come in.
Damn. Stuck.
It's an electronic lock.
Only we have the code.
The ECR stays on at all times.
Right.
Now, come on and help me get this off.
Ah, it's in here.
You're signed.

(03:53:13):
It stays on.
Well, how, how am I supposed to, you know?
There's a flap.
It monitors your physio-sexual condition.
It's for your own protection.
After all, it's government equipment now.
My name is Blair Pacheco, and I host a podcast called The Grainmaker Wrestling Podcast.

(03:53:37):
It's a very proud wrestling podcast that covers everything from Winnipeg to worldwide.
I was introduced to Grabbling with Canada about a year ago, and I've been a listener ever since.
I love the content. I love the in-depth research.
And just the overall aspect and vibe of the podcast.
I think it's something really special and really says a lot about Canadian wrestling history and Canadian history in general.

(03:54:00):
So, but on the Roddy Piper episode, I wanted to share a memory of mine.
And that was back in 1992.
Piper had just won the Intercontinental title off of the Mountain.
They had a rematch a few weeks later. He won at the Royal Rumble.
They had a rematch a few weeks later. I think it was on Saturday night's main event.

(03:54:23):
And Piper wore a t-shirt the entire time.
And I remember during the match, they had the Mountain and Jimmy Hart.
They doused Piper in water and then tried to shock him with the cattle prod.
It didn't affect Piper. He ended up winning.
After the match, he took off the shirt and was wearing a shock-proof vest.

(03:54:46):
And I always thought that that was just genius.
You know, back being an 11-year-old kid watching that, you know, you think it's incredible.
So that led to Piper and Bret Hart for the Intercontinental title at WrestleMania VIII.
And I remember the promos leading up to it, the interviews, and even the pre-match interview, just the interaction between the two.

(03:55:08):
And you didn't know it at the time just because of kayfabe and everything.
But the fact that you had two wrestling stars, both with such a deeply rooted Canadian history, facing off in a match like that,
it was something, you know, like I said, you didn't notice at the time.
But looking back now and you just think the impact that it had on wrestling in Canada, I think it really speaks volumes.

(03:55:33):
So the match was fantastic between a—it was basically a mix of amateur wrestling, grappling, and just an all-out brawl between the two.
And Bret ended up winning. But that match always sticks out to me.
It's one of my favorite WrestleMania matches of all time. So I just want to share that one.
Before we head to the finish of tonight's program, just once again want to thank the two tremendous guests that I had on this evening's program,

(03:55:58):
Stephen and Ead. I couldn't have done tonight's episode without you.
And I really hope that everybody enjoyed the look at the pop culture aspects of the Rowdy Roddy Piper story.
Again, it's something I prefaced early on in the program.
Wrestling fans would be able to tell you, you know, how many matches he had in the WWF or how many matches he had in Portland or all the big moments in LA or, you know, the big moments for the AWA, etc., etc., etc., in on down the line.

(03:56:28):
But a lot of the lasting impact, pop culture-wise, has not really been explored, I feel, until tonight.
So I'm really happy to have brought this episode and, more importantly, the facts that we uncovered for this episode to the light of day.

(03:56:51):
And I'm really proud of it. And I really do hope that everybody enjoyed the program today.
I do want to mention that there is talk of a Rowdy Roddy Piper. It's either a biography or it's a short series, but it is in production and it will be produced by, I believe it's The Rock's $7 production company, whatever.

(03:57:22):
The name of the company escapes me at this particular moment, but it's under production of them. I know a couple of people who are involved in the project.
I really hope that they will stay true to the actual story of Rowdy Roddy Piper and not go the Hollywood version. And I'm not saying that to be contrarian or because I'm sticking my flag firmly in the history ground.

(03:57:59):
It's more of, and this is something that we had alluded to specifically in episode one, that the actual story of Roddy Piper is much more impressive than any serialized or Hollywooded up or pasteurized or homogenized version that I fear would be produced.

(03:58:27):
And again, I know a couple of the people involved in the program. I hope that the producers of this program take their advice to heart.
And if any of them are listening to this program, my advice to you would be just tell the truth. Sometimes the truth is ugly. Some of it we discussed last month, but the overriding and overarching true story of Roddy Piper is the one I feel that truly needs to be told.

(03:59:07):
So I would implore any individuals involved with that program who are potentially listening to this program, please do the right thing. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
I understand that there are outside influences. I get it. But I would hope that people would come together to recognize the better good of telling the proper story.

(03:59:37):
And I truly hope that that is the direction that that project goes. And that's all I'm going to get into in terms of that. Now, on to projects that are coming out of the Grappling with Canada network.
Not that I'm a network by any stretch of the imagination, but I do have some fun projects that are coming out in the near future, and one of which just came out a couple of days ago on this podcast feed.

(04:00:12):
And that was a conversation that I had with a couple of gentlemen from the Canadian Wrestling Archives as well as Wrestling Rodeo.
Now that conversation we focused on what they're doing in terms of those two projects, and then we talk broader about Canadian professional wrestling history.
And that is something I'm going to start branching out more in terms of this program because I love the deep dives. I'm sure as you guys are able to tell, I think, and I'm obviously speaking for myself.

(04:00:47):
And if I'm wrong, please send your hate tweets to at six underscore podcast. However, I think my wheelhouse is telling the long form and in depth stories where I can work hard to uncover some untold truths, good, bad or indifferent regarding our specific subject every month.

(04:01:12):
That being said, there are a lot of tremendous projects happening in Canada and related to Canada that I want to start shining a light on. And I'm going to be doing that in the next coming months.
There are some tremendous authors working on some great projects. There are some people behind the scenes on video projects that I want to be getting in touch with as well.

(04:01:39):
There are a ton of cool things happening in and around Canadian professional wrestling history and the current project as well.
But keeping in mind that this project grappling with Canada is about the history of Canadian professional wrestling. That's something that I'm going to start bringing to the light in terms of what some other people are uncovering and working on in the next few months.

(04:02:10):
So definitely want to keep it locked for that. These specials will stay on this feed. I'm not creating a separate feed or a whole other Twitter account and Facebook account.
It's not going to happen. That's way too much work. And I feel like it would dilute what we're actually doing here. These are not going to be also, you know, you're not going to get inundated with, you know, 60 dubs of months because the reality is I can't.

(04:02:39):
I cannot do that. It's physically, emotionally impossible for me and mentally, I'm sure impossible for me to do that. But these will be fun episodes.
And like I said, the one that we just released the other day, I believe was shy of an hour total runtime, which is is a short sprint, considering when you compare it to the flagship programs and what we do with the deep dive episodes.

(04:03:08):
So I definitely want to keep it locked on this podcast feed to see what happens every maybe might be every month might be every other month.
But regardless, there's going to be some fun stuff happening down the pipeline to shine some light on some interesting projects that are happening regarding Canadian professional wrestling history.

(04:03:33):
Now, I also want to make mention of a tremendous five star review that I received on Apple podcasts.
MxSandy12 left a five star rating and review saying wonderful Canadian pod, super interesting and a great listen.
I want to thank you for your review. And once again, if you leave a five star written rating and review on any podcast platform that allows you to do such the easiest one for me to find, obviously, is Apple podcasts.

(04:04:06):
So there would be the easiest one. However, any other podcasting platform that allows that if you leave a five star written rating and review, I will make sure that I read it on the next available episode.
Also, I should mention because I never got to it at any other point in the program today is the Facebook group and page.

(04:04:29):
So you can like the Facebook group or sorry, like the Facebook page.
Even I get these two things confused for grappling with Canada.
And I would also suggest that you come in and join the group Canadian professional wrestling history.
We've had a ton of tremendous activity on there lately and some really great stuff from the history of Canadian professional wrestling.

(04:04:55):
So definitely want to make sure that you jump in and enjoy the content on the Canadian professional wrestling history Facebook group and also come in and like the grappling with Canada Facebook page.
You can also find this program on Instagram.

(04:05:17):
Simply use that Instagram search bar grappling with Canada.
Also on YouTube. Once again, YouTube dot com slash C slash six sided podcast is where you can find this program.
And of course, in the show notes regarding this program, you will find the link tree to all the ways that you can help support this program.

(04:05:42):
The reality is that any help would be appreciated.
So if you have the means to donate to this program, everything donated goes directly to this program, to the research, to the monetary costs associated with this program, all that fun stuff.

(04:06:06):
Any help would be appreciated. So you can find ways to donate either via the PayPal link or on by me coffee slash or by me coffee dot com slash grappling or via the tip function on good pods.
But anyways, just some ways to help take some of the weight off my shoulders in terms of the production of this program.

(04:06:34):
Also, there's been some interesting discussion around a project that I may be involved with coming soon, not podcast related pertaining to Canadian professional wrestling history.

(04:06:56):
Am I being cryptic.
You bet. Is it in the early works of development. Oh, you bet you.
But it is something that really piqued my interest concerning somebody that I did a tremendous deep dive historical episode of on season one.

(04:07:23):
If you read between the lines, perhaps you'll be able to figure out who this project may be about.
But until then, for further details regarding that project, until you hear myself again for another special episode on this speed showcasing and highlighting some other people uncovering some profession wrestling history for my guests tonight.

(04:07:57):
The incredible EAD and good friend of the show, Steven Jackson. I will leave you all as I usually do.
Take care of yourselves and each other. Good night, everyone.

(04:08:37):
Thank you.

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Uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper Part Two - "...And I'm All Out Of Bubblegum!!"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Uncovering Rowdy Roddy Piper Part Two - "...And I'm All Out Of Bubblegum!!"