"Whipper" Billy Watson - A Canadian Icon - Grappling With Canada

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey folks, Andy the Taxman here. Now before we jump into this month's deep dive episode,

(00:06):
I have one small favour to ask of each and every one of you. I am absolutely thrilled
to announce that Grappling with Canada is an eligible participant in the Canadian Podcast
Awards for 2022. We are thrilled to be able to be nominated in several different categories,

(00:27):
so here's what I need from each and every one of you listeners. Simply go to canpodawards.ca,
quickly make a profile, takes about 30 seconds, and you can nominate Grappling with Canada
in several different categories such as Outstanding DB for a Series, Outstanding Sports Series,

(00:47):
Outstanding Society and Culture Series, and most of all my favourite, best host in a series.
Once again, canpodawards.ca, the voting closes on July 13th, so run, don't walk, to canpodawards.ca

(01:09):
and quickly make your profile and vote for Grappling with Canada in each and every eligible
category available. It would mean the world to me and let's see if we can bring home
some gold for some Canadian professional wrestling history. If you missed all that, you can catch
the link in the show notes for today's episode. Once again, voting ends on July 13th, so once

(01:35):
again run, run, run, don't walk and vote for Grappling with Canada for the Canadian Podcast
Awards of 2022 and thank you all very much in advance.

(03:13):
and
to Grappling with Canada, but more importantly on this day, July 1st, Happy Canada Day to
all of my fellow Canadians both in country and abroad and by extension, happy early 4th

(03:36):
of July to our neighbours down south. Boy oh boy, this is such a tremendous time of
year for myself personally as you can tell by me showing my nationalistic side playing
the Canadian National Anthem to kind of kick off the program today. And speaking about
nationalistic side, boy oh boy, the topic that we're going to be covering today, you

(04:00):
almost can't talk about Canadian professional wrestling history without mentioning Whipper
Billy Watson. So to say that I'm really looking forward to this one and to say that it fits
100% with the theme of Canada Day is probably the biggest understatement I'm going to make
in the program tonight. So I'm really looking forward to our subject matter tonight and

(04:26):
I'm really looking forward to the information that we've been able to uncover and that we
will be able to impart onto each and every one of you whether you're listening to this
on July 1st, whether you're listening to this maybe under the weather, wink wink nudge nudge
on July 2nd or hopefully before you're listening or hopefully that you're listening to this

(04:49):
I should say before July 13th. Why that date's important, I'm going to get to in a second.
But first, if this is your first time to Grappler with Canada, welcome to the program. I would
strongly suggest that you go in the back catalog to hear some tremendous episodes, not just
because I've done them but most importantly for the guests that have been on the episodes.

(05:13):
We've covered such topics as George Gordienko, a two part episode on Roddy Roddy Piper, Billy
Two Rivers, Chief Don Eagle, Gene Kieniski, Stu Hart, Monster Ripper, the list goes on
and on and on and every month we just build and build and build this catalog of fascinating
stories but more importantly than that, incredible guests. So once again, go in the back catalog

(05:40):
on whatever podcasting platform that you are listening to this program on right now. Whether
that be Apple podcasts, Amazon podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, Good Pods, Spotify, wherever
you buy, sell, trade, barter and my favorite, Steal, your favorite podcasts, you can find

(06:01):
Grappling with Canada. While you're there, if you could leave a 5 star rating and a written
review on each available podcasting platform, most important if you could do that on Apple
podcasts, what happens is I will read your 5 star written review on the next available
program when I see it pop up in my feed if you will. So once again, if you're listening

(06:28):
to this program, go ahead and 5 star, do your best, listen to me talk. It's early in the
program, it's not even July 1st yet and we're revved up on this side of things and I think
as we get into tonight's program, you're going to understand why but before I get ahead of

(06:48):
myself, hit that 5 star subscription gimmick if you will, do your best Dave Meltzer as
good friend of the show BC Hunter would say and leave a written review as well, especially
on Apple podcasts and I'll make sure that I read it on the next available program. I
want to thank everybody for checking out last month's episode on Angelo Mosca. Wow, the

(07:15):
response that I got off that episode is absolutely incredible and I'm just, what a testament
to first off the guests that I had on that episode, AC and Steve Milton were just incredible
which kind of follows part and parcel the kind of thing that we're doing here, expanding

(07:36):
the reach of Canadian professional wrestling history because it's not just about the wrestling,
it's about the personal stories, it's about who these men and women were, what they meant
to their communities, what they meant to Canada and you can't tell that story without the
fantastic guests that we have on each every month. So once again, thanks everybody for

(07:56):
the positive feedback for checking out the Angelo Mosca episode. If you haven't checked
it out, don't stop this program per se but once you're on this one, hop in the Wayback
Machine if you will and check out that one. It was really, really an eye opening experience
for myself personally, being a huge CFL fan, to go back and relive a lot of the league

(08:19):
history through the eyes of Mosca and then obviously the wrestling side of things was
a real treat for me personally. Also in the back catalog are the bi-monthly specials that
we've been covering lately with Grappler with Canada, one of which is very important to

(08:39):
today's episode. Now, the Nanjo Singh episode that was released as a special a couple of
days ago. I understand that it wasn't for everybody. I put content warnings all over
that thing for very specific reasons and thank you everybody who reached out and complimented

(09:04):
me on how tactfully I handled the subject matter. It was not easy for me to go into
that much detail on such a horrific subject. I spent a lot of time agonizing, maybe agonizing

(09:27):
is the wrong word to say but it's probably apt here with the way that my mind works and
friends of mine will know exactly what I'm talking about. I spent a lot of time wondering
should I put it out there, should I dedicate the space to it, how do you do it properly,
how do you not sensationalize it, how do you keep personal feelings out of it? Because

(09:52):
I would never want this program to be something where we're capitalizing on somebody's misery
or misfortune. That's kind of the problem I have with a lot of the true crime podcasts
and a lot of them are Canadian and some of them I used to listen to until they got very

(10:13):
personalized, if you will. I have a very hard time with a lot of the personal opinion that
gets injected into horrific stories like that so I tried very hard on that episode to separate
my personal feelings from the facts. I think I did a good job and from all the feedback

(10:42):
I've gotten thus far it seems like the majority of you think so as well. If you have not listened
to that episode, again it's not easy to listen to, I want to make no bones about that. However,
it does tie in 100% with the subject matter that we're talking today, Whipperville Watson.

(11:08):
If you haven't listened to that, I would suggest that maybe you want to hit this one on pause
and backtrack it one to that special episode and listen to that one and jump right back
into this one. It's about a half an hour so it's not like our usual two to four hour deep
dive episodes but it does impart some very important information that is tied directly

(11:32):
into today's episode and I think you'll understand once you listen to that why I chose to do
it that way specifically. Oh boy, now that I got rid of all of that, let's talk about
some fun stuff. Ways that you can interact with the show, most important, on Twitter
you can tweet me at Six Underscore Podcast, you can email me at any time Sixsidepod at

(11:59):
gmail.com, I read everything that you guys send and I truly do appreciate it all. You
can find us on Facebook, use that Facebook groups or sorry Facebook pages, I'm getting
ahead of myself, Facebook pages section, type in Grappler of Canada, come on in and like
the Facebook page and the group, Canadian Professional Wrestling History. The group's

(12:21):
been growing by leaps and bounds, there's been a ton of fun information that has been
passed around from various people whether it's family history, whether it's people discovering
things that they never knew before, whether it's people showing stuff from their childhood
or newer fans just exploring and getting into this stuff, it's really a treat. So come on

(12:43):
in to the Canadian Professional Wrestling History Facebook group, it's open everybody
and go ahead and post your favorite Canadian Professional Wrestling History moments, pictures,
thoughts, whatever, it's all welcome and it's all good and we truly we all love to see it,
it's such a great meeting place for us fans of the people and of the sport itself. You

(13:09):
can also interact with the show on YouTube, youtube.com slash c slash six sided podcast,
we're still inching, crawling, struggling, pulling ourselves to a thousand subscribers
so even if you listen to this one on the podcasting platform of your choice, I would suggest that

(13:31):
you go ahead and subscribe to this show on YouTube. If you're listening to this, note
that the Angelo Amoska episode should be up, oh I hope to have it up in about a week and
Whippa Billy Watson episode that you're listening to right now should be up on that platform
a week after that. I've been buried in paperwork is probably the best way I can say it so yeah

(14:01):
it's coming, trust me. So go ahead and subscribe, hit the notification button and then when
those pop up you will know that they're on there and you guys can check them out. As
well I should also mention in regards to these special episodes, if you recall a few months
ago I had Vance Nevada on and he was talking about the upcoming book Uncontrolled Chaos,

(14:25):
Canada's remarkable professional wrestling history book that he's going to be releasing
in a couple of months. I'm going to have Vance on the program again very soon, you guys are
honestly running out of time to get any and all questions in to Vance because it's going
to be a Q&A episode that I have Vance Nevada on next for the second part of our series

(14:48):
covering his book and his research on such. So send your questions to Sixsidepod at gmail.com,
you can also tweet them to me at Six Underscore Podcast, you can even shoot me a message off
of the Facebook page or off of the Facebook group as well and I'll make sure that they

(15:11):
make air. We've got a fantastic amount of responses, some really, really, really well
thought out questions. I've been very impressed by the amount of thought and information that
have gone into some of these questions and I cannot wait to read them in but you guys

(15:32):
are running out of time so please as I said at the start of this episode with the Canadian
Podcast Awards issue, run, don't walk and get your questions in sooner rather than later
to make sure that they make air because that's going to be a very fun episode and as you

(15:52):
guys heard from both the Roddy Piper episode, part one that Vance was on and the special
episode dedicated to his book. Vance is an absolute treasure trove of information and
let's see if we get some questions that will pick even his brain. I think that would be
a lot of fun to figure out if we can stump Vance if you will. Alright, a couple of other

(16:17):
things that I want to touch on, a little bit of housekeeping before we really jump into
today's episode is ways that you can support this program. You can donate to this program.
I know times are tough right now, inflation is through the roof and it's absolutely insane.
However, if you're able to spare a couple of bucks, everything that you guys donate

(16:40):
goes directly back into the show. So a couple of ways you can do that is on the Good Pods
app. If you're on that, there's a tip function. You can also use the Linktria link in your
show notes. There are the PayPal direct link. You can donate that way and you can also buy
me a beer because it is heading into hot summer weather here in friendly Winnipeg, Manitoba.

(17:07):
You can buy me a beer over at buymeacoffee.com slash grappling. As well in regards to helping
out the program, I have a fantastic idea although I need to see what the laws are here in Manitoba
because we have some interesting laws about fundraising. However, suffice it to say that

(17:32):
in the next month or so, I'm going to be doing a fundraiser of sorts which may involve a
piece of hardware that you can wear around your waist which may be a symbol from a three

(17:54):
letter wrestling organization. One of the most famous in wrestling history with lineage
tracing back to, well they kind of co-opted it from the 1930s but we're going to say that
they started in the 40s. If you read between the lines, you'll know exactly what I'm talking
about. Keep it locked on all social media for what's happening with that style of fundraiser

(18:22):
for this program. Once again, on Twitter at six underscore podcast, on the Facebook group
and the Facebook page and also you can find us on Instagram, instagram.com slash grappling
with Canada. Now, in my opinion, the most important way to support the show right now, so if you're

(18:44):
listening to this before July 13th, please, I implore you, run Don't Walk to the Canadian
Podcast Awards, canpodawards.ca. Once again, you can find that link in your show notes
on today's program and vote for Grappling with Canada. There are several categories

(19:05):
that we're eligible for. Once you create your profile, you'll be able to use the nominate
tab. You'll be able to go through all of those and you can honestly go through each and every
category to see what Grappling with Canada is eligible for because if you type in Grappling
with Canada on the nomination section, it'll automatically see if we're eligible or not.

(19:27):
So anything that we're eligible for, if you guys can go ahead and nominate us, it would
be absolutely mind blowing. Could you imagine, just think about this one for a second and
not even just because it's my program, whatever, who cares about that, but imagine for a second
a Canadian pro wrestling history podcast winning an award. Wow. Would be unbelievable. So please,

(19:59):
if you could do one special, well I'm going to ask you to do something way later in the
program, but if you do one thing for me while you're listening to this Deep Talk program,
go ahead to canpodawards.ca and vote for Grappling with Canada. Once again, voting ends, I'm
pretty sure on July 13th, so don't wait. Get it done right now when you're listening to

(20:19):
this program and I truly appreciate each and every one of you who votes for us and let's
see if we can make something happen and make some noise in the Canadian podcast scene.
A couple of things that I wanted to touch on as well before we get into tonight's program
is a couple of programs that I was very fortunate to be on a guest on. So this didn't make air

(20:44):
before the Angelo Mosca episode unfortunately, but I was so pleased to be a guest twice now,
my second time a guest on the Wrestling with the Truth podcast. B.C. Hunter was short a
couple of co-hosts and he had me on. We were talking about a little bit of the ridiculousness
surrounding some of the modern wrestling death match kind of stuff and we had some, well

(21:15):
I will say that I had some interesting takes on that. We were in agreement on a couple
of things, a couple of things I think I was a little bit more militant about than B.C.
Hunter was, but he was such a gracious guest. We had a blast, it was about an hour long
of the program and we talked forever and what a great guy and shout out to B.C. I know Wrestling

(21:41):
with the Truth is going kind of an overhaul right now and they got some interesting stuff
in the works so I'm looking forward to seeing what they end up coming back with. I know
it's their one year anniversary right around the corner so I'm looking forward to seeing
what happens with them so you can follow them on Twitter at WWTTpod. Great group of guys

(22:05):
and I'm looking forward to see what they do in the near future. Another program that I
was very fortunate to be a guest on is regarding the two gentlemen who are joining the program
tonight. I was fortunate to be on an episode of the National Wrestling Clipping Alliance

(22:27):
podcast with Wes and Jess and we were talking about some Canadian professional wrestling
cards that spanned all the way from PEI to B.C. and our thoughts on the cards, our thoughts
on the people involved. Boy oh boy we got into the weeds of just some wrestling history

(22:51):
and we had a fantastic conversation and they had credit to them. They had a great idea
to go province to province to talk about something from each province whether it was a match,
whether it was an individual, whether it was some history and boy oh boy I learned so much
from them and I had such an absolute pleasure of a time and I'm really hoping that if you're

(23:16):
listening to this I think that one will air about a week after this program debuts. So
keep it locked on their YouTube channel. I'm going to be putting a link to that in today's
show notes as well so you don't want to miss that. It was a lot of fun and I think you'll
hear from my conversations with Wes and Jess today that they do it for the love of wrestling

(23:43):
history kind of like myself and when you get three people like that together it just boy
oh boy 45 minutes turns into almost two hours real quick and it was such an absolute honor
and treat for me to be on there and yeah I had such a blast. So I guess I've kind of
spoiled a little bit of the stuff today in my incessant rambling because today on our

(24:09):
Whippa Billy Watson episode I have the two gentlemen from the National Wrestling Clipping
Alliance podcast. Wes and Jess. Now some of you may be familiar with them with the stuff
that they've done with the Ontario Wildman podcast via the Dave Donis network. Just a

(24:31):
couple of great guys who love the history of professional wrestling and are doing their
very best to kind of spread this thing and what they've done with their clipping pages
on Facebook which we get into as well in the program as well as what they impart on Twitter
is just it's a lot of great stuff and a bit of the conversation that we had you know on

(24:55):
and off air both you know on my program and their program is you know regarding this odd
monopolization of wrestling history and I'm sorry I'm gonna set my soapbox for just a
minute while before we get into tonight's program so professional wrestling history

(25:17):
and historians have an odd dynamic with each other I find and you know you'll often find
either people are very upfront and forward with the information that they find they want
to share everything they find they want to put it out there for everybody to enjoy everybody

(25:37):
to get a get a taste of it if you will. Wes and Jess in my opinion are perfect absolutely
perfect examples of this. Unfortunately on the other side you have some you know professional
wrestling historians and I will use that word semi loosely who for some reason have this

(26:05):
guarded or gated view on professional wrestling history that if they if they come across that
they own it right if they buy it on eBay or whatever they own it they don't share it they
don't tell anybody that they it's there now it's in their purview and it's theirs and
I kind of think that that's the wrong way to go about all this stuff so you know I hope

(26:31):
that in our conversation today Wes and Jess will impart on you the listener the fact that
we as as not just wrestling fans not just wrestling historians not just Canadian history
buffs not just you know not not specifically parts of these but as a whole that will do

(26:55):
a better job of passing information on because you know all it takes is somebody to pass
away and it's gone and it's it's awful to say but man we've seen it we've seen it too
often especially lately and what a shame it would be to lose out on some of this professional

(27:18):
wrestling history some of this Canadian history for the simple fact of ownership and that's
all I'm going to say about that so without further ado let's jump into tonight's episode
but before we do that as I always do let's hear a little bit of match audio from Whipper

(27:41):
for Billy Watson and then let's dive right in to learn about the Whipper please enjoy

(28:03):
actually there's a judo and there is putting pressure on the back of that left hand
came up in a judo hole a Whipper Watson wanted into this one that's a new one the whips developed

(28:39):
the chief had to call it an early evening the time four minutes 56 seconds the winner

(29:01):
Billy Whipper Watson Whipper Billy Watson the winner over chief Chauwacky the end came
suddenly as the Whip applied his special finishing hold and there's some conversation about it
William John Potts was born June 25th 1915 in East York Ontario which is now a part of

(29:30):
the Toronto area he was born to an English-born father John Potts and a Canadian-born mother
Alice Mary Wilkin Watson began wrestling in Toronto under his real name he was a member
of the Scarborough Athletic Club in the mid 1930s and was wrestling on what was once billed
as amateur wrestling shows in Toronto an important distinction here is that at the time there

(29:57):
was a couple of factions in Canada there was the amateur athletic association out of Toronto
I believe and there was the professional athletic association out of Montreal now at the time
there was a big divide between the two associations and who could work with who and what wrestlers

(30:20):
could wrestle under what banner and you know perhaps that's a topic of conversation that
I'll have to explore in a later episode if you will not that I want to telegraph too
much but it is an interesting dynamic and something that will play a part later on in
both this episode and the later episodes of Grab with Canada but really who was Whip Billy

(30:46):
Watson I think we should explain a little bit about the man before we go into all of
the depth of detail that we're going to get into later on the program tonight so for a
little bit of biographical background I'm going to reference an article written by a
friend of the show Greg Oliver for one of my favorite wrestling sites slamwrestling.net

(31:10):
so in this article titled remembering Whip Billy Watson this is from March of 2000 Greg
goes on to write it's been 10 years since we lost Whip to a heart attack but how does
one explain the appeal the legacy of Toronto's William Potts aka Whip Billy Watson today

(31:30):
to today's wrestling fan well by talking to a few wrestlers who knew him inside and outside
the square circle quote the thing that I remember about Watson is that every time you beat him
you had to fight your way out of the ring explained Don Leo Jonathan laughing at the
recollection such was the fervour that Watson inspired in the faithful of southern Ontario

(31:57):
and of western New York Watson began his wrestling career in 1936 in England and it lasted until
1971 when an automobile accident forced him from the ring and into tirelessly working
with charitable organizations on a full-time basis now that that's something that we're
going to discuss in great detail later on to the episode tonight the whip knew no shame

(32:21):
in using his celebrity to further the causes of the right and the just in the ring Watson
was just the one dealing out the justice always the fan favourite he virtually controlled
the Toronto promotion owned by Frank Tunney quote he was the boss so if you don't want
to do exactly what he wanted he would go back to the office recalled Hans Schmidt one of

(32:45):
these famous goose-stepping German heels of the post-world war two era again somebody
that we're going to talk to talk about later on in this program when you go in the ring
with him I wrestled him about a thousand times it would have to be his way otherwise things
would stink a little bit added Schmidt if you don't do like he says like he wants he

(33:08):
may not talk to you for a week Jean Kieniski was another one of those killer heels that
made whipper all the more famous for fighting off his evil ways something that we're going
to get into again way later in this program quote I wrestled him so many many times I
think I wrestled him in every city and village in Canada say Kieniski in fact the first time

(33:32):
we met was in Newfoundland my god you couldn't get near the airport they had the largest
crowd in the history of Newfoundland to welcome him Kieniski knew his role quote when I wrestled
him people went in there to see me get beat and I just go out I'd had a flamboyant style
I just give them action action action action because I'm a rough tough son of a gun and

(33:59):
as a result we just drew so much money end quote throughout the matches it was Watson
in control Jean Kieniski would say he was coaching and I was doing all of the offensive
work Lou Thes beat Watson for the NWA world title on two separate occasions the first
time was on April 25th in Indianapolis and then Lou Thes lost the title to Watson on

(34:25):
March 15th 1956 in Toronto via countout and went back on November 9th of that same year
in St. Louis altogether Thes figured that he only fought Watson a half dozen times though
he agreed with the assessment that Watson wanted his way in the ring but Thes said that
to counter that he just out wrestled him despite his lack of praise for Watson's in-ring ability

(34:50):
Thes did recognize the importance of both Watson and his French Canadian equivalent
Yvon Robert and the roles that they played in the lives of their fans Watson and Robert
were both promoted very well and really really did a good job they had a great deal of visibility
and they did well and both of them drew a lot of money for their promoters and did very

(35:13):
very well though Mormon giant Don Leo Jonathan as an American living in Canada heard a lot
of griping about Watson's title reign now that's something that we're going to talk
about a little bit later on in the episode today quote that time when he had the championship
there was a lot of guys that figured that he shouldn't have it and they were out to

(35:33):
get it they were hitting him pretty hard they would say what does Canadian do with the world
championship anyways you know that was the attitude Jonathan explained nobody liked it
even when Yvon Robert had the championship there's a lot of good wrestlers in the states
and that was sort of an affront to them it's like the stand they kept going to New Jersey

(35:57):
Whipper Watson also had an impact on many of the younger wrestlers some of whom were
just breaking in as his character as his career was winding down Paul LaDuke was Watson's
partner and for one match in Cornwall Ontario in 1965 it was a big big big souvenir for
me he said Ronnie Garvin wrestled Watson at the end of his career the beginning of his

(36:18):
own Garvin remembered being in awe of the whip quote he was a big star and I was just
starting Garvin said of course all this merely takes into account Watson the wrestler not
Watson the man Watson the community leader or Watson the champion of charity something

(36:39):
that we are going to get into big time in today's episode again from Kieniski quote
he was just a phenomenal individual I can't to be honest speak highly enough for him about
him he was a great great asset to the world of professional sports he was known worldwide

(37:02):
and of course his name Whipper Billy Watson was synonymous with wrestling in Canada and
in my opinion that article is really a great jumping off point to kind of give you a bird's
eye view of not only Whipper Watson the person Whipper Watson the wrestler but what he meant

(37:23):
to the Toronto area and then to all of the wrestlers in the Canadian professional wrestling
scene at the time again something that we're going to dive deep into in today's episode
so to get us there first up are my conversations with one of the gentlemen from the National

(37:45):
Clipping Wrestling Alliance podcast now normally they are a tag team but you know me I always
like to throw a swerve if you will and we've split them up into singles action for this
episode so first up we're going to be talking to Jesse Jess has done an incredible amount

(38:06):
of work learning about Whipper Watson he's got binders upon binders he has clippings
upon clippings and just he knows so much and has so much backstory has so much factual
more important information about Whipper Watson and we have a great conversation not so much

(38:27):
going through the year to year aspect of you know where Whipper was what he did kind of
things like that but we picked the high points of what happened and really dive deep into
them and I think it really paints a picture of who Whipper Watson was and what he meant
more specifically to the Toronto scene to the Canadian wrestling scene and also what

(38:54):
he meant internationally so before we get into my conversation with Jess I'm going
to play some in-ring action involving Whipper Watson and on the other side one half of the
national clipping or national wrestling clipping Alliance podcast Jess please enjoy

(39:16):
Watson riding piggyback and applying what looks to be a strangle you'll note that the

(39:43):
big Ed Miller is out like a light team of Bobo Brazil Whipper Bill Watson win the second
fall over big Ed Miller and Dan Miller the brother combination from Columbus Ohio and

(40:06):
now what is applying the same treatment to Dan Miller although the fall is officially
called by Sergeant Joe Moscato the referee well it's going to take another one to decide
it here comes ringing out for Manny White Bobo Brazil just put a cocoa butt which is

(40:30):
his favorite finishing hold on Dan Miller and now Dan is in sweet dreamland well I couldn't
hear but I think Manny White said five minutes and ten seconds the time of the fall Whipper
Billy Watson Bobo Brazil over the Miller brothers Dan and Ed and that squares the match at a

(40:56):
fall apiece all right I'm pleased to be joined online right now by one half of the national
wrestling clipping Alliance tag team Jess how you doing man thank you hello hello hello
thanks for having me out man I'm so excited to be here now that we're on round two from

(41:18):
various technical difficulties from the first time we were going to record but I'm so happy
to have you on tonight for quite the topic that we're covering this month Whipper Billy
Watson and it's interesting because you know this is somebody who and we're going to get
into it whose career life story has really touched the hearts and minds of Canadians

(41:44):
from really the 30s till today and across generations and across all types of social
constructs it's really he may be the most impressive person in Canadian professional
wrestling history in that aspect of the professional wrestling business hard to argue there is a

(42:06):
reason he's ranked number one in Greg Oliver's book yes top Canadian but no I find with Whipper
too a lot of people like our generation unless you study you don't know who he is but like
for example I was just at a flea market looking for newspapers right so I looked find these
clippings and the girl was shocked I knew Whipper Billy Watson was she's like what does a young

(42:31):
man like you want to know about him I'm like well hold on a second what do you want to know about him
perhaps she didn't know that you had binders and binders upon uh upon uh clippings to to uh
further your knowledge I guess you know what that kind of segues us into a little bit of a

(42:52):
of a backstory about yourself and what's happening with uh the program with yourself and West but
more specifically what drew you into the clipping aspect of professional wrestling history
so for me I was just like I got stuck in the 80s I didn't know where to go right I was like I know

(43:15):
there's wrestling before 19 yes where like I needed help so I reached out to Greg Oliver and
he kind of helped me and then I met him and kind of took on Ontario super fan Terry Dart's abundance
of loose papers and he's like listen he was a super fan he wanted and he passed away but um

(43:39):
he wanted to leave that with a fan and Greg's like hey if you want to spend the time and put
it together then so I feel like I'm kind of completing his work but it just led to more and
more of my knowledge and probably about almost three years solid now of just putting these
binders together I got about nine or ten of them but it really just opened your eyes about the

(44:06):
local stuff here let alone it's not just Vince right yes yes yeah I always love seeing on on
Twitter and on Facebook as well you the pictures of your binders of of just the vast array and
assortment of materials and like you know they're all labeled like you know whoever whoever it was

(44:27):
and the years specific too right I I really enjoy that kind of stuff yeah the Toronto binders I
always have I had the 50s and 60s Toronto binder the 70 to 89 90 to now and then you know Wes will
make fun of me but I don't care I got the Hulk Hogan binder with all the hulks and stuff in it

(44:51):
because like that's it's our era man yeah wasn't a Hulk maniac right yeah 100% the Terry Justice
binder is just gold that I have it's just oh my god the stuff you just like oh wow he was here
this week and then he was here next week and we just love to share it man so that's I love it yeah

(45:13):
which I obviously you know with my interest in the history side of things I love seeing it and I get
such a thrill that you know it's it's not just the older generations and this is something that we'll
discuss later on in our conversation tonight but it's you know now it's it's people a little bit
older than us right now it's us and hopefully getting you know our kids into it and obviously

(45:38):
that's a conversation we'll have a little bit later but how this all ties into our conversation
tonight is naturally a lot of the information that you would have in some way shape or form would be
tied in some point to Whippa Billy Watson now for yourself and you were saying that you you know
you're stuck in the 80s you want to see what else is out there was Whippa Watson a name that had

(46:00):
come to you before you started the wrestling research no I didn't know who he absolutely was no I'm not afraid to admit it like I didn't know who it was I didn't know a lot of the guys we'll probably discuss tonight I didn't know who they were
I didn't even know who the sheep was I thought that was the iron sheep yes
I know that yourself and Wes with the old podcast the Ontario Wildmen podcast

(46:49):
you guys had done a two-part episode actually on Whippa Watson where you guys did what I thought was an excellent job going essentially year over year where he was what he did his feuds you know all that kind of information I highly suggest that everybody can go check that out I'm actually going to put a link to that in the show notes on today's episodes so everybody can check that one out

(47:13):
tonight's going to be a little bit different we're not really going to get bogged down in in the year to year but we're going to give
a really good look at some of the more fascinating aspects of what happened and a lot of the information that that I've come across and that you were able to impart in that episode some of the bigger stories some of the more fascinating aspects is what we're really going to dial into today and I think it's going to really

(47:36):
really shed some light and open some eyes about not just Whippa Watson the wrestler but Whippa Watson the individual and what he had to go through in terms of trials tribulations obviously you know the tragic and horrific end to his career and I guess you know in terms of stories that are almost you know you wouldn't believe them if they didn't actually happen in history and were provable facts

(48:06):
we got to get into you know really early into his wrestling career earlier on in the program we had discussed how we kind of got to start but what really changed the trajectory of his career was going overseas if I'm not mistaken
oh definitely definitely I assume that that it's funny who went on that trip right like it was yeah Whippa Watson and then you know Tiger Tasker yes I think yeah right Al Corman and Tommy Nelson I think yeah Tommy Nelson yeah yeah yeah right like those four guys went over and it's just it's just wild like if you think of 1930 right and then he's over there

(48:54):
wrestling and then a guy was late coming over right so it's like I don't know man it's just so when you put hindsight on everything now and really say like what he would have been the person he was if he didn't go overseas
yes correct yeah that's like the benefit of like guys like you and I have and like people like Whesson and Wenning studies like looking at it on a greater aspect going and imagine he didn't go would he be the person he is if he didn't go

(49:29):
and that's a fascinating way to look at it as well because not only was and we'll touch on this in a minute what happened with the name situation but the style of wrestling I think is really something that that he brought back here and really improved upon and you know I was and we should also frame this in the context of the years that happened so we're talking 1936 while in two years the world's at war right

(49:59):
yeah but but but exactly and and even before you know the Eastern Europe was already in a bit of turmoil at this point in time right so it's not like it's not like today where you can hop a plane and and go to England and do a tour right he's on a boat ride for for how long right like you said the guy who is going to be

(50:24):
his namesake originally misses and misses his time and and and yes yeah literally missed the boat which is is in and itself just a wild story right because again Whipper Watson you don't really you don't equate to the actual person behind the name almost until you read the story of how he came into possession of that name so basically

(50:54):
maybe we should touch on that before we get into some of the the harder aspects of his time in English
yeah it's wild that he goes there as one name and then he takes on Whipper Watson right or Billy Watson I should say yeah it was Billy Watson yeah right he took the name Billy Watson and then the guy that showed up that was supposed to be Billy Watson he was like oh my name's taken and then he turned into me Pat Lanigan

(51:25):
yeah well don't tell me everything doesn't happen for a reason that like it's kind of significant too like you say 1936 they overseas and then he's supposed to be a certain name and then oh damn well we really booked this guy on the posters

(51:46):
yeah there's there's no google back in the day or anything like that yeah yeah exactly
and then it's ironic that the guy who was late turned into another like great kid like Pat Lanigan

(52:10):
yeah who himself is a major player in professional wrestling history as well which is wild
and what's interesting too is uh is you know we we hear in today's professional wrestling environment you know the British style right the mat wrestling the heart but back then it was it was really still a kind of a shoot style

(52:50):
of professional wrestling and so not only does Whipper Watson not knowing that that as that at this point in time but he goes over there gets a name change gets a new lease on the professional wrestling you know career and gets hurt right away I think it was uh he had fractured ribs like his second or third match over there and missed a bunch of time

(53:13):
yeah um off the top of my head I'm gonna trust you on that because I can't remember but I don't doubt it because those guys like the math were so hard and you know I think he was wrestling like olympics wrestlers over there too because I think uh because he did a little bit of amateur in Toronto right so he took that style over there

(53:40):
yeah I believe it was uh yeah he had a fractured shoulder and broken ribs missed six months so not only is he now in a foreign land he's recovering from injury and you know this is back in the day yeah exactly I was just gonna say right it's back in the day where there's no guarantees if you ain't working you're not making money

(54:01):
that's right if you're not in the ring then you're not making money but he turned out okay I think yeah I would say so so in and it's crazy to think as well right so he has the injuries um but he was then being booked by a couple of former Olympic gold medalists actually who was running the territories over there

(54:25):
and they they pushed him as as a top level guy which really you know once he comes back to Canada really is able to elevate himself at that point in time because you know it's one thing to to go through the ranks here you know through the local scene make a name for yourself whatever but there is a certain level of prestige that I find and you can trace it back through history of guys that have gone away to to another land

(54:53):
another country another continent whatever come back and they're automatically that much bigger of a star and I feel like that that was something that Frank Tunney capitalized on almost immediately when he came back
yeah and uh to give an example for the modern wrestling fans of an example Cody Rhodes is a perfect example yes right now went to AEW did his thing came back to WWE no offense he's a bigger star than he was when he left yes 100% so there's a prime example of that and of course like what are you supposed to do?

(55:29):
the world's at war right all you know how to do is wrestle so who's in charge? Mr. 27 year old Frank Tunney in Toronto there so he got a lot he got a lot hey what did you do? this is where I was you know and this is who I was under so it worked out
which is crazy I guess we should probably touch on that as well so just in terms of time frame he leaves for England in 1936 returns to Canada in 1940 obviously right in the middle of all the turmoil I believe it was in the fall of 1940 because I believe he had his debut at Maple Leaf Gardens in October that year

(56:14):
October 3rd 1940 I'll never forget because my daughter was born October 3rd so I'll never forget October 3rd 1940 was his debut in the gardens
and he's at you know he's 27 but already has a name for himself from from working overseas and almost immediately he he's kind of put into the to the top tier level although there is a bit of controversy that happens around this time as well and I believe this happens in 1941 can you expand on what happened there a little bit?

(56:51):
yeah so apparently the story goes Whipper made a deal with Frank Tunney about getting a title shot and it didn't really like kind of didn't happen so he said well I'm gonna sue for breach of contract because I won this tournament you know and you're not gonna do it so he threatened to sue and

(57:18):
well they gave him the match and Whipper was huge she was you know he's from East York so when you're announcing him oh from Toronto in the Maple Leaf Gardens and you're talking 1940 so Frank Tunney's already been running Maple Leaf Wrestling since 1930
yes so so it's not like it's not his first rodeo dealing with wrestlers saying oh I'm this guy this guy right but he caved and Whipper got his way and as they say the rest is history right like

(57:50):
but it is interesting that this is almost I've only ever come across one other instance where somebody has gone to the papers about a situation in professional wrestling in my research for this program obviously this is predating the the dirt sheet or what we would quote as you know modern wrestling media so
the one other time is what we covered in the Chief Don Eagle episode where Fred Kohler essentially told the papers that he was in discussions with I think it was the FBI and something else about what happened during the Chicago short count screw job between Gorgeous George and Chief Don Eagle that's one time

(58:32):
this is the second where somebody has gone to the papers to complain about to complain about an issue with with their situation the difference being that this time it's the wrestler doing it which was almost unheard about that time nobody ever used to go you know behind the promoters back if you will and I know that that it was part of the storyline and everything else but

(58:55):
and K Fabe was obviously a big deal back then but it's it's so fascinating to see how almost immediately Whipper starts understanding how to use the media to really further himself as well yes the wrestling matches are great I think he went 6-0 in his first six appearances with Maple Leaf Wrestling

(59:17):
but you really start to get the sense of of really the media savviness that you would really that he would expand upon later in life and this was a really interesting way to kind of kickstart that part of his career
it's it's wild that you say that the Don Eagle thing I didn't know that was kind of cool to say because I didn't know that so I'm going to look into that more yes into that the screw the Chicago screw job I'm trying to think I thought there was one more that went to the papers I thought it was with the Gold Dust trio way way in the early days

(59:53):
yeah I think I just because I just recently read that graph the history graphic novel you can get on Amazon or whatever yeah and I thought that he went to the papers but I'm always unsure like I said I'm just in the 50s I'm getting it like deep down trying to get into the 30s so it's hard

(01:00:19):
and I'll have fun yeah exactly well before I mean before we get into the 50s we should stay in the 40s and really talk about the ascent of Whipper Watson what during the championship runs and I guess it would have been his first title run when he defeated Nanjo Singh I believe for the British Empire title that was

(01:00:48):
April 1942 if I'm correct yeah lots you could say about the person as well but let's let's touch on the rivalry quick before we get into anything else

(01:01:18):
the ramp was to help Nanjo Singh get out of there that's how much heat he had right?
which is interesting because prior to that and I may be wrong but that was I believe the first quote unquote cage match in professional wrestling history and that was also the first time a ramp was used in professional wrestling history

(01:01:40):
and that was also the first time a ramp was used I believe in professional wrestling history a ramp? yes one of the most famous things for us in Ontario the ramp from what I've been told it was only in Maple Leaf Gardens right?

(01:02:02):
and with Maple Leaf Wrestling and stuff like that because even on TV you don't see ramps until Vince McMahon of this huge production but even still in his early days he didn't have a big ramp or anything like that so it wouldn't be wrong to say that I guess in history

(01:02:33):
hey Ross exactly yeah and they're just coming up from the curtain right it's still very very old school that way but yeah just a great little tidbit of history and obviously something that is going to draw us back into Maple Leaf Gardens but here's two guys who you know Whipper Watson a big big time fan favorite again he's all over the media he's a big star he's being pushed as such

(01:02:59):
Nanjo Singh is really like the exact polar opposite this guy is a brutal wrestler he's evil he's maniacal they just have absolute wars with each other
yeah and I want to like let's put a little bit of perspective on this you're talking about a guy from East York he's a hometown boy kayfabe is 100% in effect yes when Nanjo Singh is saying to the reporters I'm gonna make Whipper Watson scream for his life people are like yo this guy is legit like he's gonna

(01:03:40):
you can't talk like that about this guy yeah you know what I mean so and like you said there's no social media there's no internet the papers were the big deal everyone would buy the paper they would see Whipper Billy Watson versus Nanjo Singh right this Sunday or Thursday I should say since the 40s

(01:04:01):
this Thursday at Maple Leaf Gardens right and then it's just for years like you talked 1942 and then we mentioned the cage match in 1945 so there's three years of just battles that's right and not to mention Nanjo Singh think of the timeline with a name like Singh during a World War II

(01:04:24):
yeah we always say it on our show like we don't want to sound politically incorrect but at the same time you have to put perspective on the time so like the newspapers like you said with the media is wild too and then with Nanjo and then that led to even more rivals because you know sometimes you gotta learn to hold

(01:04:53):
well yeah but Nanjo Singh learned a new hold but in a little bit different context than we would normally see in professional wrestling and I suppose now is probably a good time as any to kind of bring this aspect up and if you're listening to this you can go which predates this episode is a little information piece if you will about Nanjo Singh

(01:05:20):
so if you're listening to this episode and you haven't listened to the piece about Nanjo Singh you should probably put this one on pause go listen to that one it's about half an hour and it'll really set you up for what we're going to discuss now because I don't want to get too deep into the weeds but we should bring up the fact that not only was Nanjo Singh brutal in the ring but he was also a murderer in real life and there's boy oh boy that story of Frank Tunney essentially getting him out of the ring

(01:05:50):
and then he's going to leave the big house right back into the wrestling ring to face Whipper Watson that's something that we got to discuss here real quick
I guess money talks right you know 1940 people want to see Whipper Watson in a ring you'll pay it at home people are paying a dollar right just go see him or whatever it was back then and then you need a bad guy a good guy versus a bad guy well who's more bad than a murderer

(01:06:19):
yeah which is things that would never fly today but
Nanjo Singh used to hide under the ring and fans used to throw smoke bombs under the ring
that's right yeah I totally forgot about that
that's a huge reason the ramp was invented because he kept getting stuck under the ring because the fans were so ruthless

(01:06:43):
which is you know again right I just the wild aspect of what it was back like wrestling really was the Wild West back then
oh my god like they had no barrier the fans were sitting in the front row right
yeah
you ask anybody who saw the sheen what happened to you if you ran up on him

(01:07:07):
oh yeah exactly yeah
now it's like you got the hometown hero facing this guy and you know like you know the papers probably said something I've never found anything saying that Frank Tony hires Whipper or
or anything but I mean you gotta figure that Toronto was all over that and the papers who's gonna go see it right yeah exactly I'll see Whipper teach him a lesson yeah right

(01:07:39):
another aspect and you know how do you ever you know segue from from a murder to the rest of the conversation but we're gonna try here another aspect of the Whipper Watson story with Maple Leaf Wrestling is when he gets well I guess this is a proper segue when he gets cut into the business of Maple Leaf Wrestling
what were you able to to gather during your research because I'll be honest there's there's a lot of the financial side with the Tunnies it's hard to find and it almost seems like unless you know somebody really related to the family or somebody who knows the information firsthand even today in 2022 it's a lot of conjecture what were you able to find about Whipper Watson getting cut into the business of Maple Leaf Wrestling

(01:08:26):
so I don't know when he got cut into the Maple Leaf Wrestling side but I know when Sam Muchnick took over the NWA Frank Tunney and Whipper Watson kind of had a share of that NWA right so they you figure that they would team up there he's money maker so for modern fans I always do this so for modern fans this was Vincent Mann we're talking about this would be John Cena

(01:08:54):
it's the cash cow yes right so you have Frank Tunney and Whipper and they teamed up but I think I would have to guess late 40s because they were buying into the NWA together once Sam Muchnick took over that's right and sorry go ahead
so we had his own territory but yeah it didn't last very long now it's so would you know that so okay I guess we should also preface this with that they also bought into the St. Louis territory so would you know which came which came first did they buy into the St. Louis territory together and then Whipper got a cut of Maple Leaf?

(01:09:40):
I would probably think it would be the Maple Leaf first and then the St. Louis after yeah it would probably be easier going to the St. Louis office you know how close Frank Tunney and Sam were and then yeah so it probably went down I would have to assume it went that way you know what I mean after the meeting with Angelo and all the money they made and then hey let's team up

(01:10:09):
and then NWA let's buy into that and there's more we can talk about that and controversy I believe in my own theories but
maybe we'll have to touch on that in a second too
yeah so I'm trying to hold off on that one
yeah
so another big thing that happens in the late 40s obviously when Whipper beats Fez for the title in St. Louis and I guess that's really what kind of leads to him you know purchasing a part of St. Louis because that essentially ended up being his home away from home and they were drawing you know 10,000 plus each and every single time that Whipper Watson was down there

(01:10:54):
it really was he almost became their like out of town, home town hero if you will it was really really an interesting story there
yeah huge he was a massive name in St. Louis I mean even Jim Cornette talks about Whipper Watson and Bill Longston I think his name was back in the 40s right and it drew one of the biggest houses in St. Louis and it wasn't even televised

(01:11:19):
that's correct too and almost no promotion
exactly so imagine that just showing up and being like 20,000 people showed up here tonight you know what I mean
and it's just amazing to see like the power the draw the drawing ability right with with a guy like Watson and Frank Tunney behind him right like everybody has somebody back then

(01:11:50):
yes
somebody right even later on after the 40s you can say Vince McMahon Sr. and Andre the Giant you know what I mean it's the same kind of concept so
which is crazy you're talking about drawing power you know that that term is thrown around so loosely today I feel like a lot of people have kind of lost the plot on what that means but

(01:12:14):
when you're looking at a guy like Whipper Watson who's drawing night after night after night you know whatever that arena holds he's packing him in and it doesn't matter if it's if it's St. Louis doesn't matter if he's in Detroit doesn't matter if he's in Toronto it doesn't matter if he's in Montreal there's a lot of runs out there
right everywhere that he's going he's top of the bill he's drawing the crowds right so it's and it's and that whole his his circuits were wild I think at one point he was almost going seven days a week

(01:12:47):
yeah I have clipings of him in Oshawa which is Oshawa Ontario which is my hometown and it goes all the way back to the 40s and you gotta think back then you weren't for a long time you weren't allowed to do anything on Sundays in Toronto
it's just one of those laws right so if you're going Monday you're in like St. Louis you fly back on Tuesday you're in Oshawa on Wednesday you could be in London Ontario yes and then on Thursday you're in Toronto maybe you're in Gardens right

(01:13:23):
well it's Friday off St. Louis right to do the NWA weekend it could just easily just be just that and he would have made a fortune but he went everywhere like because he was a traveling champion like he didn't care he loved doing what he was doing
it's funny to think by 1945 he was already probably I would say 15 years in because he started around 1930 training because if he went to the UK in 36 he thinks six years prior to that he was probably training or whatever

(01:14:02):
yeah and then you go over there so it's not like it took him that long just to be able to have that and that never left the drawing ability never left and that's what amazes me about Whippoorwods and the drawing ability like you said which does get lost like you don't see Oshawa draws anymore

(01:14:26):
yeah you don't see anything like that now it almost seems like it's it's now it's the company that'll draw and that's always been that's been my view on it for a long time here now like you know when you're going to you know Monday Night Raw you're going to a pay-per-view or whatever you're going to the WWE you're not going to see blank

(01:14:51):
you know insert name here you're going to see the show right whereas back in the day even up till you know the 90s really you were you were going to that event to see this person you want to see your guy right and there's you know 10,000 15,000 fans who Whippoorwods and was their guy right and you look at numbers you know we're talking to like

(01:15:16):
late 40s 10,000 plus in every place that he that he goes essentially that's able to hold that many fans right you're you even move into the 50s and and he's you know drawing 15,000 now and because he got to move to bigger arenas right like one for example I think it was 50

(01:15:40):
was it 56 when he he ended theses six-year reign with the title yeah yeah and so they're like and there's again 15,000 fans because they had to find a bigger arena right you always you'll hear guys like coordinate whatever they talk about you know a match that needed a stadium or a stadium that needed a match well you know that was a match that needed a stadium and like as as big as they could get essentially at that point in time

(01:16:09):
oh yeah I mean you bring up that too right like look at the name there Luthers if any everybody who studies the wrestling history side knows who Luthers is I would hope and then you're talking can't want to can it I want to can his biggest draws and then you're putting them in Maple Leaf Gardens against Luthers in 56 yeah which is wild

(01:16:38):
and and not only that right well exactly but but you know not only that you know you you looked on the list of some of the names that he was wrestling in the 50s right you like you know gorgeous George is Pat okay and there's a lot about gorgeous George obviously anybody who hasn't listened to the Chief Don Eagle episode I would again go back and listen to that in the archives but you know Pat O'Connor there's there's Dick Hutton Hans Schmidt Corbin

(01:17:07):
Kowalski is one who comes across that time Buddy Rogers although he's kind of in the twilight at that point in time but yes exactly and just the hits keep on coming and there's there's one other Canadian professional wrestler that he has a hell of a few from and this one essentially goes from the 50s into the 60s we got to talk about his legendary feuds

(01:17:35):
with Canada's greatest athlete Gene Kineski
Oh yeah you say the 60s you can really count that all the way up to the Canadian Heavyweight Championship tournament
that's right yep
where Gene Kineski was in the final against Dino Bravo
that's right too yes

(01:17:56):
yeah
yeah I mean here's another guy I always say Canada is funny you know everybody has somebody
Ontario Huckwood for Watson well BC had Gene Kineski yes that's their hero and he supported the Canadian Jacket and everything but he was a bad guy and these guys went everywhere

(01:18:30):
I think me and Wes calculated I think in one year alone they had 89 matches that's incredible in one year they had 89 matches so it's like well there's only 52 weeks of the year you know so do the math they're probably going to two times a week at least

(01:18:55):
yeah a week for the whole year like that's insane but that's how they did it back then it's not a little schedule right it's no it's not a oh this is how we hit on the house show this is how we hit on pay per view it's no this is how we go every night
yes
right I mean Gene Kineski to he even in the tag division against Gene Kineski like I have pretty sure he teamed with Johnny Valentine

(01:19:27):
that's right yes
right and he went against with Watson in another big like Brazil or in the early 60s Bruno San Martino and Whipper Watson who I still think is probably the biggest baby face tagging with the 60s even though it only lasted a short amount of time
but that was when he was on the outs with Vince I think right Vince senior yeah yeah that's right before he went back yeah he went back to Tony was working and then after that he

(01:19:58):
well he went back and we don't know what happened there but let's stop and stop and think about this one for a second you have arguably the biggest baby face Canadian wrestler possibly in history you could certainly debate it at this point in time yeah
at that point in time 100% then you have the biggest baby face American wrestler because Bruno ruled the Northeast like there's nobody close those guys as a tag team is crazy

(01:20:26):
yeah they had a huge huge rival with Bulldog Brower and Johnny Valentine yes that's right yeah I have clippings of that like everywhere London Oshawa I think Whippy I have one in Whippy but yeah they did the whole Ontario circuit those guys they and Johnny Valentine didn't play man like every night was a he went hard

(01:20:52):
he was working yeah so imagine those battles a young Bruno San Martino we're talking like 26 27 before his big 80 teaming with like the biggest star in Canada against any villains the Kalmakovs anyone yeah it's just it's baby face overload

(01:21:18):
now before Whipper Watson's career ended due to injury something we're going to talk about in a minute it almost ended due to politics yeah we should probably expand on that a little bit so we got to talk about what happened when he ran for the PC party was the story that if he was elected he would have quit wrestling right then and there

(01:21:42):
I think that's what the story was right I know he ran for the conservative party and it's so funny because when me and Wes did our episode on Whipper Watson I did a tally and I was asking people like certain of the appropriate age like hey do you know Whipper Billy Watson and it was only two answers yeah the wrestler or yeah the politics

(01:22:07):
you know politics is huge and TV coverage and news coverage and popularity right of that of the name Whipper Watson right like oh the wrestler the wrestlers running for office around here the wrestlers like it's like going into the hometown restaurant and just front you the bill

(01:22:32):
yeah so it's you know it's wild because he's you know this is 1965 in the federal election yeah he lost by 2500 give or take a couple but but it's it's wild that you know it could have ended there

(01:23:01):
it would have ended on quite the high note because you know he's still a big drawing power at that point in time actually had a bit of a career resurgence at that point in time but you know it doesn't end there he moves on a little bit and then we kind of move into into the 70s and this is you know at the time he's at the tail end of his career but man the way that his career ends is really something tragic and really something that's not been reported properly on it

(01:23:30):
I feel like in terms of wrestling history what can you tell me about what happened with his career ending accident
well before his accident I want to touch on just one thing the 30th anniversary of Maple Leaf Wrestling. Yes so the 30th anniversary of Maple Leaf Wrestling I consider the passing of the torch because Toronto was full swing into the Sheik and Whipper Watson vs the Sheik I think it drew 18th

(01:24:07):
thousand people yes that's correct right and packed the gardens so at least I'm very happy that he got that moment of like a huge he had a lot of moments but think about that 1971 the Sheik the most hated man on the planet taking on our hometown boy and then it's funny too because I bring up the rival with Bulldog Brower

(01:24:36):
and Whipper just like Gene Kieniski Bulldog Brower played a huge rival in Whipper Watson's career so for Bulldog Brower to have the final tag match with that's kind of cool. That's pretty cool yes. It really was like a big let's take a big look at the whole picture here
your rival with this guy your whole career and then the last couple years you tag and then you have your final match with this guy so things came full circle about the accident it's funny I have something I think from the Toronto Sun in 71 yeah right here I can read it for you if you'd like. Yeah please. I knew we were going to talk about it so I'll show you first this is from the Spectator December 7th, 1971

(01:25:24):
from a Hamilton newspaper so I'll show you first. Yes. Right so yeah before I even read anything the accident he got hit from what I've been told he got hit by a drunk driver he was loading a fireplace into his trunk and on a winter night and a drunk driver kind of just swerved and lost control and he broke his leg like mangled

(01:25:53):
leg he went to St. Mike's Hospital in Toronto St. Mike's to this day is the trauma center of Ontario I don't know if anybody knew that but yeah it is funny enough I did work in St. Mike's on the same floor he was on. Oh no way. So that's kind of wild too.

(01:26:16):
But yeah the accident it could have been looked at two ways like yeah it's a tragedy that we lost this guy wrestling but it also opened up a whole other humanitarian side for him so the hospital trip kind of like ended one trip one part of his life but opened up a whole new other side of his life that he devoted into.

(01:26:45):
Yes and this is you know something that we're going to be touching on a little bit later on in the program with your tag team partner if you will but I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves right now but it's interesting you know in terms of something that I brought up earlier in the program
how you know he gets into wrestling then he gets you know the media savviness and that really translates into his you know the later career in his philanthropic philanthropical work I think even you had trouble with saying that word when you guys had your program as well which is you know there are guys in wrestling where you know they they

(01:27:30):
retire they're broke busted and done right and they have nothing to show for it then you have a guy like whipper who made you know piles of money easily could have retired arrested on his laurels and just gone and done whatever but instead goes into really devoting his life to charity at that point in time.

(01:27:51):
Yeah it's crazy too because I just looked down here while you're talking it says Watson at 55 so the guy was 55 years old wrestling still let's put perspective on that for a second.
Yeah.
He gets hit and his left leg was mangled and encased in a cast from toe to groin more than three hours of surgeries were needed so I mean you're talking he wasn't a small guy you know.

(01:28:26):
Yeah.
But yeah man I don't know it's weird when you really like I said when everybody gets to hindsight of 2020 being on our side looking at everything I don't want to delve too much because I don't want to get West upset.
He may just get a super kick because you know how much he loves Shawn Michaels.

(01:28:51):
Oh yes.
So I guess you know as we start to wrap up this portion of the conversation tonight.
You know it in terms of your research with whipper Watson.
Was there anything that really stood out to you as like you know something that we haven't covered or maybe something that we have covered tonight.

(01:29:14):
Something that really stood out to you as like I can't believe this is actually something that has happened or I can't believe this guy actually did blank.
I mean it's kind of cool that you have when you look back on the ramp thing like we talked about earlier tonight and how anybody who faced Whipper Watson was that hated they had to hide under the ring or need a ramp to elevate them up to get them out.

(01:29:41):
To get them away.
You know and like you look back at the names to hold on brown Johnny Valentine Jean Kienzinski Dick Hutton said you know a name that we didn't mention.
Elio DiPaolo.
Yes.
Huge huge tag partner for him in the 50s.

(01:30:03):
And I think some of the 60s but you know it's just.
Is he the best of all time.
I'm a little biased with Bret Hart but different times different stages different productions you know.
But yeah I'm just happy that I got to come out and talk about Whipper man.

(01:30:28):
Anytime I talk about the whip I'm down.
And I guess you know before I really let you go for the night tonight there was one question I had to ask because we're very similar in age I think you're 88 or 87 I think something like that right.
88.
Yeah.
Okay so there you are so like I'm 37.

(01:30:51):
Actually well I'll be 37 by the time everybody hears this program.
But you know I'm not sure how it is for you looking back in history but for myself it's it's so fascinating to see these people kind of like speak through the year speak almost jump off the page of what you're reading.
And I get so captivated and enthralled with what they've done with their careers with their lives with the personalities it just it's so it's captivating I'm not sure with yourself in your research.

(01:31:26):
You know what what draws you into it what makes you like you know want to keep several binders of material.
Hey, you know what.
There's a couple things I love about doing research. I'm sure you have your little thing. Everybody has their niche but I love family trees.

(01:31:48):
Yes. Right. So I love seeing everybody who's related. Not like because you never know right because K fate was full of effects so yeah like a little butcher was from winter guys he's not the mad man.
Yeah.
But yeah like when you dig deep like you see the names jump off the pages true like one name that jumps off the page for me all the time is hard boiled Haggard.

(01:32:17):
Yes.
Right.
And, you know, the times.
Like you say like these, these guys were wrestlers. They showed up. Right. They signed they played. They played the part but he was in effect so the fandom, like, if you go on the Maple Leaf Wrestling archives on YouTube there's footage of with lots of wrestling.

(01:32:45):
Right. And I just, you just see the fans go nuts. Yeah.
Right. It's just a different time.
Right. And, like we talked about the drawing ability to what we see that ever again.
Yeah, it's hard to say. Yeah, it just now a show again.
Right. I don't go see a movie like I go to Cineplex to see a movie right.

(01:33:10):
I go to WWE to see the show.
I got a great analogy. So, yeah, right. So,
that analogy that you gave me earlier. I when you said it, you're like, yeah, you really just go see the product. And I'm like, damn, I've never really looked at it like that before.
It's kind of true. Yeah. Right.

(01:33:32):
But, like,
will there be guys like Ripper Watson, Yvonne Robur, Stu Hart, you know, Gene Kieniski, like, are there going to be guys from Canada that are going to be that significant and make that much of an impact.
Right. Because would we have the people we have today with them, Ripper Watson. Yeah, exactly. Right.

(01:33:56):
How many wrestlers actually know who Ripper Watson is?
Hopefully quite a bit more after listening to this program. Yeah, hopefully.
It's yeah, man. But regardless, I had a good time talking.
I'm really impressed with the research you've done. Really happy that you invited me out.

(01:34:18):
You know, Wes is still upset that the leafs suck.
At least Matthew's one. At least something. Yeah.
All right, Jesse, man, this is an absolute blast. Thank you so much.
I'm going to have to have you on again. And I look forward to seeing what else you guys come up with on the Facebook groups and on Twitter as well.

(01:34:41):
Yeah, man. Looking forward to it. Anytime you want to have me out, let's do it. I'm down.
Now, to further dig into Ripper Billy Watson, not just the wrestler, but also the man and especially into the philanthropic aspect of his life and career.

(01:35:02):
I'm going to bring on the second half of the National Wrestling Clipping Alliance podcast duo or tag team, if you will.
Wes. Now, Wes was an absolute treat to talk to. And actually, he now lives about 30 minutes north of me, so I can call him the northerner, if you will.

(01:35:26):
But Wes is going to come on the program. He's going to talk a lot about the personal side of Ripper Billy Watson.
And we get into a lot of conversation about what Ripper meant to the philanthropic community in Ontario.
And it's really an eye opening conversation, in my opinion, because you can read stuff on paper.

(01:35:52):
You can read, well, not that many people read stuff on paper nowadays, per se, but you can read stuff online.
You can read stuff via Twitter or on Facebook or whatever. But when you're having the conversation and you start really understanding the scope of certain things,
it's really, really fascinating and just gives a much deeper appreciation, if you will, about Ripper Watson and what he meant to Ontario as a whole.

(01:36:24):
And then naturally, Canada on the bigger picture of that as well. But before we get there, there was one part of the conversation that I had
previous to this regarding Kineski, because as many folks will know, we did the fantastic deep dive episode last season on Gene Kineski.

(01:36:49):
We had author Stephen Verrier and the man behind Maple Leaf Wrestling.com, a guest from last month, A.C.
And on that program, obviously, Ripper Watson was a large part of our conversation as well.
A.C. brought the Maple Leaf Wrestling side of it. Stephen Verrier brought the bigger picture aspect of it.

(01:37:19):
And we were kind of talking between Jess and Wes about how many matches, because it seemed like a ton of matches between Ripper and Kineski.
So I went ahead and tracked down and figured out exactly how many matches the two of them had combined.

(01:37:44):
So that would be singles matches with each other, tag matches against each other, and handicaps matches against each other.
Now, the number that we had thought was 80, but the number that I actually came across is Ripper Billy Watson squared off against Gene Kineski
on the other side of the ring, either in singles, handicap or tag matches, a total of 132 times.

(01:38:16):
Think about that for a second. Ripper Watson, who, by the way, in my estimate, had a career match total of just over 1500 matches,
134 of those matches were strictly against Gene Kineski.
And almost more impressive than that is you look at his last match against Kineski was in 1967.

(01:38:47):
His first recorded match, at least, against Gene Kineski was in 1957.
So you're looking at like a 10-year period, just over 130 times. It's pretty impressive stuff.
And you can tell, you know, that also goes back to the portion that I read from Slam Wrestling, from Greg Oliver earlier,

(01:39:12):
where Kineski was just raving about the type of individual, I should say, that Ripper Billy Watson was.
And you can tell from the quote, the admiration that he had, he being Kineski had for Ripper Watson.
And my goodness, the proof is in the pudding. You can't have that many matches against somebody.

(01:39:35):
And they're all over North America as well, which is even more wild in my opinion.
But just an unbelievable stat that jumped off the page. And I just wanted to make sure that that made air.
Sometimes I get so much information and there's so much backstory these programs are, you know, for the most part,

(01:39:58):
so long that sometimes something slips through the cracks and I don't mean it to like last month when I went to bring up the fact that
Angelo Mosca had some incredible matches with Abdul the Butcher in Japan, both teaming with him and against him.
And I meant to put it in that episode and it fell through the cracks and whatever, just things like that happen.

(01:40:21):
But I wanted to make sure that I put in the Kineski stuff in here because I think it's really fitting.
And again, draws back to our Kineski episode from last season of Grappler with Canada.
So I think a perfect way to tie this segment into West would be a little in-ring action where we have a little interference ran

(01:40:48):
on Whippoor Billy Watson by that dastardly evil Gene Kineski. So I'm going to play some more classic in-ring audio.
And on the other side, my great conversation with Wes. Here we go.

(01:41:30):
And there's Watson carrying the coat of Kineski. There's Watson wrapping that coat of pieces of Kineski.
And there's Martin Muscato in there with his men. And they're trying to subdue Kineski. But Kineski's gone crazy.
And there's Kineski and Eric attacking Watson. And Martin's men are in there.
Martin Muscato has his men. They're all trying to push Kineski out and they're all grabbing him.

(01:41:54):
They've taken about six men to subdue Kineski. And Kineski has lost his shirt, his coat, everything. Everything's ripped off him.
Kineski really took a bad burden then at the hands of all those that tried to subdue him. But he was crazy.
And so was his partner. His old partner's crazy.

(01:42:18):
And the wrestling fans, there's quite a mulligan on here. There's quite a mulligan on here. Everybody's trying to get order.
The fans have gone crazy. It's defining how to restore order here.
But Watson has found a winner. Rocky Marciano has killed Whippa Billy Watson, the winner of this contest, by disqualifying, disqualifying Fritz Von Erich.

(01:42:41):
Rocky Marciano has disqualified Fritz Von Erich and has declared Whippa Billy Watson ex-Huddle Bay Champion of the World, presently some time wrestling champion, the winner.
And Watson takes hold of Kineski and takes hold of Fritz Von Erich by the side of Kineski's coat and holds him into the corner.

(01:43:03):
Rocky Marciano, Rocky Marciano there, took command, disqualified Fritz Von Erich in 17 minutes and 11 seconds.
He's now raising Watson's hand, Watson the winner in the wireless contest that I have ever witnessed and certainly one of the wireless wrestling contests that has been witnessed at the Buffalo Women's Memorial Auditorium.

(01:43:30):
Marciano sending Fritz Von Erich to his dressing room.
Rocky Marciano probably had one of the roughest times of his ring career here tonight in restoring order in a contest that got well out of hand for a brief period.

(01:43:52):
And then, then we find Pidgey Kineski doing his best to weigh in his own associate, but so miserably.
And so wrestling fans, Rocky Marciano, Fritz Whippa Billy Watson of Toronto, Canada, winner over the big German wrestler Fritz Von Erich.

(01:44:19):
Alright everybody, I'm very happy to be joined on the line right now by the second half of the tag team that we mentioned earlier on in the program.
Wes Maidman, Wes how you doing?
I'm good, Andy how are you today?
I'm doing fantastic, it's funny because normally a lot of my interviews are all over the map in terms of time zones or times in the world or maybe it's tomorrow or maybe it's yesterday, but today somebody who is not far from where I am in Winnipeg, you're just in St. Andrews which is not far from me so I'm super happy to have you on the program tonight.

(01:44:59):
Thank you, it's going to be so much fun, I love talking wrestling history.
No doubt about it, it's my favourite thing, I can go on for hours and hours and days.
Which it's funny because I'm pretty sure I've listened to you for hours and hours and possibly days between the current project you're working on but also the Ontario Wildmen podcast that you were previously associated with so before we get into tonight's program, do you want to talk a little bit about what the current program is that you're working on?

(01:45:32):
Sure, we have a podcast on YouTube, on our own YouTube station, it's based on one of our Facebook pages that we have called the National Wrestling Clickings Alliance, and that's the podcast, and the Facebook page is called the same, we also have the Ontario Wrestling Clickings of the past and the Facebook Tribune page for the Wildmen.

(01:45:55):
And everything started with the Wildmen and morphed into the Ontario and Jesse and I came up with the National Wrestling Clickings Alliance.
We turned it into a podcast like you said, which was on the Dave Dynasty Network for Ontario Wildmen, and we just decided that we wanted to share more so we're sharing video and audio on our podcast.

(01:46:22):
Yeah, which is certainly obviously the big difference between this program and yours is the video portion which I can appreciate as well because you know as cool as it is for me to you know sit here and enunciate about all of these, you know, people, places, facts, locations, etc.
It's cool that you guys have that actually in video form on the YouTube page.

(01:46:47):
It's so exciting. I love it.
And we do take things from the internet, I'm not gonna lie.
But a lot of it's from our personal collections and referencing and holding up pictures and, well look this is the picture I took in the garden, brick flaring or something right.
It's just a different slant on things and so I love it. I love doing it. I could do it for the rest of my life.

(01:47:14):
What I'm always fascinated with on the Facebook group is the first off is the clippings are tremendous and the pictures that you guys get and the pictures that other people actually send in because there's a lot of family of wrestlers who are from that area who also are on that group and they they post and whatever.

(01:47:35):
And the detail that goes into everything and the explanations because you can go in the comments section afterwards and read, you know, not only okay this happened here but here's the explanation of what happened and who was involved and and all that kind of backstory for for people like me it's it's absolutely fascinating.
And some of the people we've talked to, I've learned stuff. I post a picture and I'll say, I don't remember who this mask guy was say for example, and we've had people come in and say oh, that was me, I did some of the favour, blah blah blah they needed Chris Cole broke his arm they needed a mask guy to manage so it's been so exciting to learn also as we go on.

(01:48:22):
It's been so inspiring.
But I believe me I'm learning too.
And that's, that's what's cool about this, you know the projects that you guys are doing as well as one that I'm doing is eat you know, I'm not sure how it is for you guys with, you know, the old program versus the new one but for myself.
And, oh my god, you know 2030 40 hours on each episode between you know, the research production whatever.

(01:48:52):
And there's been times where it's like you know, you know I'm at, I'm at, as they say, nut cutting time.
And something I find something and I have to get it in and it's like zero hour nine am as the rocket man song would go, and I have to like edit my whole program to get this one last thing that I just finally found it's just, it's a never ending process but it's to me it's so rewarding

(01:49:20):
I'm not sure how you guys feel about this as well.
I try, I just he tries to me both right not put something in each other's eye line for the next upcoming podcast. Yes, there's a bit of surprise somewhere. Sometimes it's just me sticking my finger up my nose.
Jesse's talking about NW or something.

(01:49:46):
Or something even worse like I did get the end of you kind of forgot about it right. Yes.
Yeah, we also picture I've got something coming up for our next episode we're going to take pictures, I think it was so cool that maybe no one else knows.
Oh, look what I found.

(01:50:08):
You know, yeah, it's just great.
Yeah, 100% I absolutely yeah and that part of it comes through when you guys are talking to because there's always that, you know, aha moment between the two of you.
When when he provides something you may have never heard of before but when you impart a lot of things that because you know the age ranges is certainly.

(01:50:33):
I wouldn't be I was going to say massive but I know he likes to get on you about that but I wasn't going to go there but but it's super interesting but I love that dynamic and it's it's so interesting you know you're you both are almost trying to one up each other's
which I really appreciate.
And I, I love how Jesse soaking it in.

(01:50:58):
We take them last week, and I looked at him for a millisecond, and he, he pulled it right out.
Yeah.
I'm throwing names that I'm throwing out wasn't that so and so.
Yeah, you got it. Yeah, yeah.
I love that you know what, history and you know keeping the stuff alive is kind of what we're all about and in no more, or no way is that more permeant than right now with you know talking about whippin Billy Watson because here's somebody who was, you know, an incredible star, not just

(01:51:39):
in Toronto not just Ontario but an incredible star for all of Canada, and he and he's one of these individuals who over time is kind of faded with my generation because, you know, you, we, and I'm speaking about myself even people younger maybe feel a little
older, you know a touch older than me maybe even the 40s who maybe they heard about whipper from their parents but don't understand what he actually meant.

(01:52:09):
And, and there are a lot of things and we've discussed some of them on the program previously to this conversation but there are a lot of things and a lot of times instances and events that don't happen in professional wrestling without whipper Billy Watson.
And some of the feuds that he had.

(01:52:30):
And some of the most notable feuds that he had throughout his career. And this is something that, you know, I've done a ton of research on read multiple books and whatever but you almost don't get a sense of it, unless you hear people who have either seen first hand or had first

(01:52:51):
hand knowledge from it and it's pretty impressive. Just the, the amount of people that were involved in the amount of people who saw it across Canada, it's one of those things that, you know, you, you almost take for granted like myself, you know, getting into
history yourself as somebody who's saved clippings throughout years right. We almost take it for granted that you know we think that people should know who these people are. And when they don't it's all when it when they don't it's almost like, wait a minute, what do you mean.

(01:53:24):
So, so this is something that I'm really looking forward to discussing with you is some of the, some of the notable feuds that he had and these are like massive names in professional wrestling out a lot of people would be very familiar with a lot of them.
Yeah, for sure. We, we look at.

(01:53:45):
I never saw him wrestle I saw him wrestle on TV when I was a kid. Yes, because he stopped in 71.
So, you got to put that into perspective.
I'm 63.
Carry the seven yeah.
63. So, yeah.

(01:54:09):
So, you know, when he finished wrestling.
My dad saw it with her.
But my dad's like, 88. Yeah.
So, and, you know, we remember some, but it's that part of history, started in like 46 or something 1946.

(01:54:37):
56 to 70 years ago, right.
And that's no one, no one's here that would have seen them.
Which is crazy because you look at the list of names of some of the big feuds he has, or had, we should use that as a proper phrasing if you will but some of the names that he feuded with are like, you know you name the names and people would know them and we're going to get

(01:55:05):
to that in a second.
But maybe because he's Canadian and this is something that seems to come across in the majority of episodes that I do maybe because, you know whipper was Canadian we kind of took him for granted and, you know, people are so quick to talk about some of the names that we're
going to discuss right away.

(01:55:26):
Some of the non Canadian names, more specifically, and you know it's like a boom boom boom that you can list them off quickly and then whipper is almost sort of maybe not in that echelon I think he should be and a lot of that is regarding, you know, not only who he wrestled but
the amount of fans that he drew to these matches and that's something that we're going to get into as well tonight.

(01:55:49):
Definitely, a draw. I mean he would have never gotten the big belts, if he wasn't a draw.
You know we can say that the only part of St. Louis here, he had dicks in St. Louis, you can say that says like them.
And one of the reasons why someone would get the belt, but most reasons are back in those days was that they can wrestle to defend it, they can protect it, and that they were a draw.

(01:56:19):
They had to be a draw, whether it was in Arizona or Regina.
I think that's one of the more overlooked portions about whipper Watson not, not so much for the for the older generation I don't mean that in a derogatory way but you know people my age and a little bit older don't understand you know, when you were the champ you were the

(01:56:41):
reason right when you were wearing the NWA strap you had it for a reason because you were a draw you can go anywhere and draw the fans and and again you know we're going to get into the feuds right away but it was a there was a certain prestige that went along with the belt that I feel is is people don't

(01:57:02):
understand what what what that is anymore because you know there's like I think you missed a word there. I think you said certain procedure.
Yes, you're absolutely correct and I misspoke Yes.
I'm not going to correct you but the difference between that those two words back in those days was really important. Yes, yes you're absolutely correct and and the amount of prestige that these individuals brought to each promotion that they ended up wrestling in is something that would

(01:57:36):
boost up said promotion right and it's it's something that's really lost today.
People just don't understand what because I mean every promotions got 17 belts and they're all interchangeable and what nobody's a star anymore but you know back in the day there was that traveling star who would go and make a territory he would go and make a challenger he would go and put the next guy over

(01:58:02):
and then that whipper Watson was especially known for right putting guys over he never had a problem with it and that's something that you know obviously we can discuss later on but you know you don't see that nowadays anymore it's it's not whether it's because we don't have
territories or whether it's because we're just not in that frame of mind I guess is is it's very interesting.

(01:58:26):
It's just a show now. Yes.
It's not an exhibition of strength and science.
Yes, I agree.
I get it. You know I have no problem going and seeing shows. I pay my 20 bucks and get in and watch the entertainment, like a movie or a play or the opera or whatever.

(01:58:51):
We can't be putting the perspective what it would be like. Go to St. Louis in 1953 and see Pat O'Connor and Whipper Billy Watson wrestle in the main event.
Yes.
They had tables that were covered in linen, they were all around the ring.
Everyone anywhere near the ringside was tuxedoed up.
The women all had evening dresses on.

(01:59:14):
It's like the photos that you see from hockey games. Yes. Yeah. All the men are in suit, ties and hats in the arena. Yeah.
The perfect example of how Whipper changed.
And I guess you know Pat O'Connor is a good one to, you know, bring up as well because you can even say that Pat O'Connor is not even one of his, one of the biggest rivals that he ever had in his whole career, you know, not just with the

(01:59:41):
NBA title, but just in general, generally speaking.
And he's had such, he had such big feuds and big moments that it's, it's almost, it's laughable when you look at the list of people who has wrestled it.
And so, you know, maybe we should start with Bill Longston because, you know, here's someone who many wrestling fans like many wrestling historians would be very familiar with.

(02:00:08):
Yes. In America specifically, but you know a lot of Canadians would be familiar with him as well.
So let's talk a little bit about Whippers feuds with Bill Longston and what that meant for Whipper at the time.
I think it was important because of the star quality of Longston in St. Louis, in Missouri.

(02:00:34):
Like O'Connor after basically settled in St. Louis, as many guys did.
Yes.
When you're that big of a star somewhere, like you said, eventually someone has to get put over.
And, you know, Bill Longston goes a year without being defeated in St. Louis, captures the belt, and then defends it for, I do have it there somewhere.

(02:01:02):
And then along comes Whipper, who is completely baby faced for Longston's wild guy.
Not necessarily wild guy, but mean, mean guy.
Yes.
Let's put it that way I guess, right?
And they have to have good and bad, but at the same time they have to have someone who's going to be a big draw.

(02:01:28):
So maybe Longston could draw in California or Texas, probably in Texas, Florida, say.
Yes.
Where Whipper maybe wasn't as big of a draw in California because he didn't go there as very often.
He wasn't a big name there, but he still had to produce.

(02:01:51):
Sorry, I completely lost the wild Bill Longston there.
That's okay.
Yes, he did beat him.
A big feud in St. Louis.
Which is wild, you know, we've heard, you know, throughout the course of this program and all the individuals that I've covered, right, you'll hear, you know, the Toronto Detroit connection, you hear Toronto, Montreal, obviously massive connection there.

(02:02:20):
But Toronto to St. Louis was an interesting dynamic, and it seems to have really started around that Whipper Watson era and kind of continued from, you know, the 40s until mid 70s, maybe early 80s is when that that connection really started to fizzle out.
And maybe you could draw a line between St. Louis and Toronto with Whipper Watson almost at that point.

(02:02:49):
You could because Whipper was successful, and he had money.
Him and Tony invested to a certain extent in St. Louis.
Tony being former president during Whippers run.
So we see the connection by Tony and Whipper and the seeing the dynamic of how much Nick within NWA St. Louis and Toronto ran with Tony.

(02:03:23):
They were pretty much the same big, big arenas in territories, and they needed both areas needed a big, big bad guy and a big good guy.
Yes.
More, more, I think they needed more massive big guy.
And Tony was in, or I mean, Watson was in.
Yes.

(02:03:44):
Here.
Which is interesting because then you look at somebody like, like Yvon Robert from Montreal, which is, I know we're skipping over somebody, but there's a reason I'm skipping over him right now.
But it's an interesting dynamic almost, you know, you're playing off the French and the English at that point, right between both territories.

(02:04:08):
You're playing, you know, it's like the Canadians and the Maple Leafs, right?
It's that whole, the whole feud, which still exists today.
And, you know, it's interesting to go from the dynamic, you know, the feud with Longston to the feud with Robert is just as hot, but it's hot for different reasons, if you will.

(02:04:31):
Yeah, because when they wrestled in Ottawa, they probably went to a draw.
When they wrestle in Toronto, Whipper won, Yvon Robert was maybe more of a tweener.
Yes.
When they went to Montreal, they reversed. They had to.
I've seen some matches with Whipper in the ring, and you can see that tiny little bit of, I'm going to say, not shithead, but a bit of a, he's got the, he could be a hero if he wanted to be.

(02:05:08):
Yes.
There's a few times when he had, when he grabbed guys by the hair and he threw them right over the top rope.
Yeah.
So it's not like he couldn't do it.
But it's interesting, you know, we always look, and maybe this is a full paw, if you will, but us in Western Canada, we always looked at Whipper Watson as like the clean cut, the Canadian baby face, the ultimate baby face, right?

(02:05:34):
It's interesting to see him go into Montreal and kind of play upon that heel persona, if you will, a little bit, which is, which is interesting.
Again, maybe that's the Western Canadian bias working a little bit.
But you've got to look at two, because the other, one of the other names we haven't mentioned yet was basically a Western Canadian person, and they wrestled each other like 750,000 times.

(02:06:00):
Yeah, we're going to get to him in a second.
So that I guess there are two huge names that we're going to discuss. But before we get into those ones, Gorgeous George was another one that I found interesting because, to be honest, I didn't really know that Whipper Watson and Gorgeous George had any kind of feud, which was interesting because there was another Canadian wrestling star who I covered a few months ago, Don Eagle, who had a very sorted

(02:06:33):
happenstance, if you will, with Gorgeous George. But I was wondering, what were you able to ascertain about the matchup between Whipper Watson and Gorgeous George?
I was a fan of Gorgeous George. I would never knock him. He could wrestle, he could do his thing, his personality, his aura, his charisma. I think that it was by the time they were wrestling in the 50s, especially in Toronto, although I know they went to a certain degree across Canada, that it was money.

(02:07:12):
At that point. He was going to make money and George was going to make his money no matter what. And they were getting close, especially George, was getting closer to the end and no problem getting his hair shaved off, right?
Yes. Yeah, and that was one of the big dry matches too, right? Was it hair versus hair?

(02:07:34):
It was... Oh no, sorry, it was... Title versus hair. That's right, yeah, title versus hair, you're absolutely correct.
George didn't get shaved, but his belly got shaved. That's right. Whipper wouldn't cut all her hair off because he's such a great guy.
What an absolute gentleman, hey?

(02:07:55):
And I heard from people that some people said that he wasn't a perfect gentleman. And maybe that was the aura that the faces had back then, they were always bothered, right?
Yes.
So maybe a few people in their lifetime bothered him at the wrong time and he told her to get lost or something.

(02:08:18):
Yeah.
So other than that, his persona was, like you said, squeaky clean man.
Yeah, yeah. He was Mr. Clean without the merchandising, if you will.
Well, he's pretty good at the merchandising.
Well, that too, yeah. Maybe I shouldn't say that part.

(02:08:41):
Without the massive advertising campaign behind it.
That's true, yes, absolutely correct. Now, another one who is like, you know, some of the names we just listed, you know, Bill Longston, Yvonne Robert, Gorgeous George.
One person who does not fit this mold, if you will, is The Sheik out of Detroit.

(02:09:05):
Wow. This was later in Whipper Watson's career, if I'm correct, when he started feuding with, yes. So how did that work between The Sheik and Whipper?
And was Whipper very involved with the Detroit scene at that time as well?
Off and on through the 60s, he worked Detroit. I think when he was homesteading, especially in the summertime, Tunny had a fantastic summertime circuit in Ontario.

(02:09:39):
Whipper would main events for bigger houses around southern Ontario, the progress country and stuff.
And I think during a few off days a week or a month, he would work Detroit.
Off and on right through the 60s, there was a rapport there.
I'm sure, I can't say, I'm sure The Sheik respected him for what he was and who he was.

(02:10:05):
The few matches that they had in Toronto, again, just money.
I remember seeing a picture of Whipper in a magazine, maybe 1971 or something like that, and there was a picture of him in Toronto in a tag team against the Love Brothers.
And truth be known, he was fat. He was old, he was fat, he'd already been in the ring for 34 years, 35 years.

(02:10:32):
He wasn't taking any bumps, that's probably that way.
So, you know, looking at some of the Sheik stuff that people have said, I completely disagree with most of it because Sheik was a show, it was his entrance, it was his match, it was after the match.
Yes.

(02:10:53):
It wasn't just the four minutes that was recorded that the match was.
So Whipper was getting in there for five, ten minutes, maybe a little bit of a nick, and they collected their pay.
Yeah.
And the fans came out, the fans would have packed in.
Yes.
That's such a fascinating point that you bring up because this is, you know, I had done an episode on Abdul the Butcher last year, and here's another one where it's, you know, people will talk about, oh, you know,

(02:11:26):
maybe the match wasn't great, but they seem to omit the build, and they omit the aftermath, right?
It's almost like people are so focused on what happens belt to belt that they forget what happened before, what happened after.
And really, you know, back in the day, which is something that we've lost today, and I mean, we can go on and on for hours, I'm sure about how, you know, nobody gets talked into a building anymore.

(02:12:00):
But, you know, guys like the Sheik, Abdullah, Whipper Watson, right?
You're talked into the building.
The match is almost irrelevant at that point.
It's the fact that these two guys have built up this match, this stipulation, this whatever you want to say.
You want to see what's going to happen, right?

(02:12:23):
They've talked you in.
Once you're in, it doesn't matter almost at that point.
It's the fact that they've gone the way to bring you into the building, make you feel a part of it.
Those are excellent words, feel a part of it.
Who wouldn't want to pay their five bucks back in the 70s or $25 now and be part of the show?

(02:12:48):
Yeah, exactly.
Whether a heel comes over to you and gives you the, you know, swearing at you or dabbing at you or puts your hat off or something.
I know that's verboten, but it happened in Winnipeg at the show we were at just a month or so ago.
That's right.
He grabbed some guy by the T-shirt and whipped him around.

(02:13:10):
Yeah, he spilled his gimmick of fries.
I saw that.
And the kid was so happy, right?
Oh, he was over the moon.
It's funny because I ended up, I talked to Marty Goldstein after the fact that I said, hey, what happened with, that was Dragon Eel, I think it was.

(02:13:31):
Whenever Dragon Eel was in that fan, he goes, I'm not really sure. I'll get back to you.
So obviously a couple of huge names that we kind of gloss over here.
One American, one Canadian that we're going to talk about.
We'll talk about the American first.
Luthes, who is like any wrestling fan anywhere on clearly knows the legend and lore of Luthes, but you could almost say that Luthes made Whipper Watson, but then Whipper Watson kind of also remade Luthes at the same time.

(02:14:08):
100% good analogy.
He was injured.
He needed.
They needed someone trustworthy.
This is only what I've read that you've probably seen this in different spots.
Also, they needed to put someone over it.
And Whipper was the guy.
So Whipper takes the belt for eight months or nine months, whatever it was.

(02:14:33):
Jesse is the DJO guy.
And guess what?
Someone makes a comeback.
He's back.
He's healthy.
He's back.
He's not traveling all over the world anymore.
And he's the new champion again.
Preservedly so 100%.
And there's a guy that was perfect tweener.

(02:14:55):
He was a great tweener.
Yes.
Now what's what's more interesting also is another Winnipeg connection because you know, when Luthes was looking to wind down, he wanted to pass the belt to George Gordienko.
But Gordienko obviously couldn't be the champion because of the whole communism thing.
And you know, something that we discussed in our George Gordienko episode.

(02:15:19):
If you're listening right now to this program, you can go back in the archives after you're done this episode and listen to the Gordienko episode where we go heavy in detail about what happened there.
But it's interesting because so that's can't make the make the drop to Gordienko. He picks Whipper Watson, which to be honest was probably the better choice in the long run because as as big of a star as Gordienko was, I think Whipper Watson at that time was was a bigger transitional star.

(02:15:55):
And you have the option as well with with Whipper Watson who didn't mind dropping it back.
Right. Whereas Gordienko may have wanted a longer run with it and may have put it may have put up more of a fight about, you know, OK, I have it now.
Maybe I can make a bigger run of this. Maybe I can expand more into the states.
You know, obviously all of that was kind of kibosh with his with the communism charges and he couldn't go there and he had the exclusion order. But it is interesting that, you know, says has or wants to drop the belt and he has a choice in his essentially to Canadians.

(02:16:32):
So that part of it is super interesting and really a forgotten piece of the NWA history, in my opinion.
In Gordienko, I don't I don't know your whole episode and I should listen to it.
I understand that those kind of people who were a little on the more shooter side, maybe less patriotic towards the National Wrestling Alliance, they might go somewhere and they might just break someone's arm.

(02:17:07):
Maybe they go to the next place and they hurt someone else because they're protecting themselves, thinking more of themselves and the title.
Yes. Then then what the big picture is.
Yes. Gordienko was I saw him actually wrestle on TV in the early early 70s when he was working in Montreal.

(02:17:28):
Oh, wow. Yeah, I can barely remember, but I do remember I did see him.
I think he might have been on the NWA in the early 70s too.
Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, that would line up. Yeah.
It's interesting that what you bring up about, you know, that's almost the downside of putting the belt on a shooter, right?
Because if you want him to do business, you know, is he going to do? But maybe maybe that's why they brought the money stipulation in later on with the anyway built because I'm not sure what year that started with where where the holder had to put up the money.

(02:18:07):
I think that was in the 50s. Right.
I'm not sure, but I know what he Rogers said.
Yes. Okay. So so we're in we're in in and around that area anyway.
So but yeah, whipper at least with somebody who didn't have a problem, you know, doing the job, if you will, for the betterment of himself, which in this case, it definitely was.

(02:18:30):
But more also, you know, in the, you know, it's it's Luthier's right.
He was going to say no to putting the belt back on him.
And you know, I know the NWA wasn't programmed out like WWF was, which is still absurd.

(02:18:51):
It could have made so much money on Supercar ability.
Great. Yes, they could. Yeah, that's it. Oh, my God. That's
So when you have guys with the caliber of says Watson, that other Canadian guy we're going to talk about, you know, they they knew there was a big picture, a massive picture.

(02:19:14):
They understood themselves. They understood the product. They understood the NWA.
They understood how to work. They were professionals.
And we see that with the NWA and then you mentioned nowadays, I don't want to talk too much about nowadays.
I don't particularly watch it. I just see what I see on my phone.

(02:19:35):
Yes, there's no loyalty. There's no there's no there's nothing.
Yeah, there certainly isn't any guys in there that could protect the belt.
No, God, no trouble walking into rookies here. Like we saw that show. Right.
A lot of those guys are being for Rude Awakening.
But so, you know, it's funny, we just talked about, you know, the Whipper Watson, Lou Thes dynamic, right?

(02:20:03):
Thes makes Watson Watson makes Thes. You could easily say the same with the dynamic between Gene Knystky and Whipper Watson, where Whipper Watson kind of made Knystky and then Knystky kind of remade Whipper Watson after the fact.
I think it's kind of reverse of the first thing. Yes.

(02:20:24):
I think Watson made Knystky more popular and then vice versa, whereas Thes made Watson made Thes more popular because he got the belt in the first place.
Yes. Yeah. And then you look, you know, because obviously Gene Knystky has has a wild run with with the NWA title, something that we discussed in our Gene Knystky episode last year.

(02:20:52):
But, you know, you have you you almost don't get that prestige of Knystky being, you know, Canada's greatest athlete if he doesn't have those that series matches and that feud with Whipper Watson, who was essentially Canada's hero at that point in time, because there was, you know, there's a coverage in the CBC.

(02:21:13):
You know, it's it's, you know, here in Western Canada, we have like three channels, right? It's the CBC and you get maybe two local stations on your rabbit ears. Right.
So, you know, people all across Canada knew who knew who Whipper Watson was. Right. Knystky this, you know, evil guy from Western Canada.

(02:21:36):
And they sure played it played it up that way. And rightfully so. And they have their matches. He gets the, you know, meteoric rise push and then goes with the NWA title and tours.
But when he comes back, I think is more interesting because that's kind of at the tail end to not necessarily at the tail end, but towards the tail end of Whipper Watson's career.

(02:22:02):
And they come back and have a series of matches. And again, you know, Whipper Watson is at the top of the card and they're having amazing feuds, amazing matches.
They are. They wrestled in 1957. They wrestled 50, no, 90 times against each other. That's incredible.

(02:22:24):
And that's not the traveling circus. I would say that NWA in the 70s and 80s where the guys just went like this. Right. Yes. It was a box show.
They were they were in St. John's Newfoundland. They were in Regina. Maybe they hit St. Louis.
They made me back to Toronto. These guys like 90 90 times is like what three times three times. How many times a month? Oh shit. Yeah. Really though.

(02:22:54):
Yeah. Almost 30 times a month. Right. Let's that's incredible. Yeah. 30 into 90. Yeah. Because you got to figure the whole the run was that that wasn't their whole year either.
Right. They're still doing other matches in between all of that, which is you think about it in the big picture is mind boggling.

(02:23:17):
But it was perfect. Yes, it was. Believe me, I'm a huge fan. Absolutely.
We went on a show. Jackson and I went on a show with an Ontario referee called Jim, old school Jim Connolly. And we did NWA tournaments and it whittled down to Fez number one, Ric Flair number two and Koniski three.

(02:23:46):
Wow. And that was the top like a top 16. Yeah. One versus eight kind of thing. And we whittled them all down. And that was all guys who had held the title more than 1000 days or something like that.
Oh, so you'd have like Harley race and guys like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I already raised story. Fun. Pat O'Connor, Buddy Rogers. And there was a couple guys that I didn't even know I had no idea where they were. And I just went, whatever.

(02:24:18):
Now, would that be the actual lineage of the NWA or did you guys include the the kind of history that was absorbed into it? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. They included Jeff Jarrett included some British guy, Nick Aldis.
Yes. Yeah, all this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's a few more modern guys. Now, I've never heard of Nick Aldis before. I watched some matches. I like him.

(02:24:45):
Yeah, he's very much in the the old vein of things, although I think I believe Tim Murdoch is their champion right now I may have to check my check my modern wrestling notes but
But yeah, you know, in, you know, going back to our conversation. Yeah, you know, you look at guys who just matched up well against each other and it's Kieniski and Watson is just unbelievable and you know, even in my Kieniski episode, there was a large

(02:25:19):
portion of that episode where you know AC was talking about, you know, the Maple Leaf Gardens aspect of it and just the crowds that were there and and and you know how rabid the fans were and people just wanted to see it right and even Steve Verrier, you know, how large of a section of the book was was talking about that and Steve was talking about, you know, he could have went into deeper detail almost.

(02:25:47):
But it's, you know, it's really incredible just that that series of matches and that feud.
I think if I was going to say to wrestlers who I like a lot.
I would say Flair and Steamboat.
Although Flair in my eyes, he's not anywhere near what Kieniski was being the hero.

(02:26:16):
But I would compare those two for the time, the amount of time they wrestled and the places they wrestled, the aura of their matches.
Yeah, I would agree. You can say the Sheik in World War Brazil. Yes. Because there's two guys there that wrestled against each other so many times, but there's no wrestling. Yes. Yeah, it's a war. Yeah. Yeah.

(02:26:42):
So, you know, naturally, we talked about, you know, some of the big feuds. But one thing we've kind of neglected to mention is some of the big houses that were involved with Ripper Watson in some of these feuds.
And, you know, we've talked, you know, AC has been in this program a couple of times before. We've talked about some of the houses, you know, in the Maple Leaf area, you know, 10, 12, 13, 14,000, you know, and you're talking about each and every day on a circuit.

(02:27:11):
But whippers one who just he correct me if I'm wrong, please. But he set every attendance record from like, I want to say the late 40s, almost throughout the entire 50s and into the 60s in Maple Leaf Gardens.
100% 100% No doubt about it. There's no one bigger. I'm sure if we look at the stats and AC has those stats, you can say, okay, Watson is not beyond three cards in a row. And it's every day every week.

(02:27:47):
Yes, that's the most important part. Yes.
The crowds different. He wasn't on the cards.
Yeah. And it's crazy because you know, he's drawn, you know, said, what was the number that they used to draw Maple Leaf Gardens, it was like 17 and change right was 17.
Five was like a seller. Yeah, that was like the absolute like you're turning people away. And, and you can look through the years, you know, 40s 50s 60s and these attendance numbers and he's drawing week after week after week after week that he's when he's there.

(02:28:22):
I should specify that because that's an important part of this equation that we're going to talk about. But not only was he a big drawn in Maple Leaf Gardens, but he was a huge draw in St. Louis, which I found fascinating because, you know, you hear about, you know, the kind of cards that they were running there.
Obviously Sam much Nick and you heard about the payoff said he was apparently he was a very fair payoff guy. And I mean, money is something that we can discuss in a little bit, I suppose. But, you know, some of the crowds that they were drawing with with whipper there versus whoever the opponent was or whipper versus the hometown guy, however you wanted to phrase it.

(02:29:07):
But they were drawing huge in St. Louis massive crowds.
And that's testament to how I get over.
There's got to be that point of charisma that holds.
No matter where he's going to be.

(02:29:28):
And where St. Louis. Okay, we know what he did in Toronto, we know it's drawing power here but when you can do it somewhere else.
That's not necessarily. No one knows about whipper Watson's safety club in St. Louis.
No one knows that none of the kids there are signed up, you know, for this charity he has for this school thing he has right, we're 100,000 kids signed up for this safety thing that we get a little bulletin with his picture on it or something.

(02:30:01):
So, that transitioning from being such a big star to our cities, proves his power withdraws.
Now there's something else that you brought up earlier on in the program that you know we're really going to circle back to here is when whipper bought into the St. Louis territory.

(02:30:24):
Now obviously that you know kind of goes into how big of a story was because obviously you're not getting a piece of the territory if you're not.
If you're not drawing right.
Yeah, so was that more Tony and Watson going into the territory or was that something where Watson kind of gave you know a piece of his part to Watson, or what was the, what was the dichotomy there.

(02:30:53):
I'm not really 100% sure the dichotomy, although I know around that time.
Tony had been the president of the end of the 80s only once. Yes, and a lot of, I agree that a lot of people did this.
And, you know, we probably, Grisco is probably owned part of Florida.

(02:31:15):
Different guys own different, she even owned part of different territories too at one time or another.
So, I think, I don't know the facts, I really don't, so I shouldn't even summarize other than it's a known fact, and they probably went together because they were.
He was Chinese moneymaker for sure.

(02:31:37):
Yeah, so it would make sense at that point that he was kind of protect his investment I'm sure. Yeah, right, and because he's such a drawing power in St. Louis, it almost makes sense that you want to have that business connection as well as the, you know, fanning connection between, you know,
Whippa Watson and what's happening in St. Louis. So, you know, maybe I've just just popped into my mind. Maybe Frank was thinking, which if Whippa ever gets to be the NWA champion.

(02:32:11):
And he's my guy.
If we buy into St. Louis, and he does get it, I'm going to get the National Wrestling Alliance champion in my house. Yes, a lot more. That's an excellent point. You know what, I never would have thought about it like that. That's an excellent point.
Because that was one of the problems with Quebec.
They wanted a world champion, and they couldn't get one so they, you know, they created Yvonne Robert, the Montreal Athletic Commission world title.

(02:32:41):
And then that tied to Boston world title from Montreal, which is back in the 40s also right.
Because that would have got tied up with the AWA title at a Boston, I believe, at that point. Yes. Yeah.
Which is like, that's a turnabout a can of worms that we can go into. I'm sure that.

(02:33:04):
That just popped into my mind and I'm thinking that's probably one of the reasons. Yeah, that's, that's a tremendous you know what I'm.
I can 100% agree with that with that supposition. I think that makes a ton of sense, right? If you really boil down to like the dollars and cents, exodus and always whatever you want to say like that, that absolutely makes sense.

(02:33:26):
Now, you know, we talked about some of the feuds, the houses were incredible.
Some that we talked about with Jesse earlier on in the program tonight, but something that we didn't talk about with Jesse was what kind of happened at the end of Whipper Watson's wrestling career.
You know, we had discussed his horrific accident, which ended it, but we didn't really discuss what happened after the accident.

(02:33:55):
And this was something that I was really surprised to learn about was that was the charity side of Whipper, Whipper, Billy Watson.
Can we discuss a little bit about what happened after the accident that Whipper Watson had that ended his career and how we got into the charitable side of things?
Sure. I just wanted to say one thing that something is forgotten and not known overall by most people was that the wild man, Dave McKegna here in Ontario.

(02:34:24):
They're in Ontario.
Yeah, they're well, we're just we're neighbors still. So there's that.
Hey, man, Watson went into partnership. Oh, that's right, too.
In the mid 60s, Dave McKegna was starting to run all the smaller towns and he was getting more of a draw and more of a pull.

(02:34:47):
And then Watson went together so that Watson had the connections. Dave had some guys, he had a small troop of guys.
And they worked together for about two or three years. And it was really successful.
Wild men, Dave McKegna ran mostly in the summertime. So they were hitting all the small towns, arenas that were empty.

(02:35:10):
And they were doing really, really well because of Watson being with them. They were able to pull some fantastic stars, Moulin, Russell Fordham, Hans Schmidt, lots of people that were in the area.
I don't have a name for that company. I just never found that information. It was they were they did form a partnership up until about 1969.

(02:35:38):
Yes, that's correct. Yes.
But after that, you know, Mort Layton was really, really famous for announcing in the area in Cleveland and Detroit and Toronto and then back to Australia and then back again to Ontario.
And he was very famous because he was a Shriner. And I think that's where my few left group got the says idea. Yes.

(02:36:08):
For the manager for the state. Watson never took that path. But he blew it out of the water. I got a small list here.
He was an active member and the following charities, cystic fibrosis, the Hugh McMillan Center for Crippled Children, which is a very famous hospital in Toronto. Yes.

(02:36:31):
Multiple cirrhosis, the Rumbull Center for the Beef, which is a deaf beef.
You say spaghetti, the Canadian Parapolitic Association. And those are all things that he was involved in. He would go speak at the dinners and things like that.

(02:36:53):
But his fundraising was phenomenal. He invented winter avocates and snow festivals.
He did summer things. He actually, in some degree, became more famous after his career. Yes.
I know Jesse says that he was talking about Wilfrid Watson and oh, that's the guy who was doing all the fundraising for the crippled kids.

(02:37:24):
They knew that more than Leslie. Yes.
So go ahead. And there was some interesting anecdotes that I had read over my research about him and the charities where it was like if he.
Like he would do anything almost provided that it was not like, you know, somebody trying to take advantage of him being the wrestling star. Right.

(02:37:51):
If he if he knew that it was for like specifically for charity and they needed whatever he was all in.
But if it was somebody who had deep pockets and maybe they were just trying to take advantage of the Whipper Watson name, then he would kind of maybe not be associated with that, which I think is an interesting part of it as well.

(02:38:13):
The aspect of him being tied to anything had to have been because of his persona, which had to be 100 percent true. Yes.
He was not going to turn to name with something that wasn't 100 percent. Excuse me.

(02:38:34):
Well, you know, some of the numbers that I've read for, you know, some of the amounts of charities that have gone on throughout the year, because there's still a lot of these still have his name tied to them.
And, you know, you're you're talking about amounts in the millions or tens of millions of dollars that have been raised since that.

(02:38:55):
You know, I'm looking at Easter Seals, for example, you know, throughout his his time with them, you know, into the future.
Now, in Easter Seals is something that's also here in in Manitoba.
You know, they're over the 16 million dollar mark.
And you got to think like that doesn't start with really without Whipper Watson, which is really incredible.

(02:39:20):
And the amount of money that's been raised continually year after year because of, you know, him getting it off the ground, him being a part of it.
And then, you know, maybe today people don't know that that part of it, maybe they don't know how much he put into it at the beginning of it, if you will.
But my God, it's really incredible and really a testament to him as an individual.

(02:39:45):
As human, as a human being. Yes. Not not just a star.
Yeah, because he didn't have to do it right. He could easily sat at home and counted his money.
Yeah, 100 percent. And we you know, we look at that he was a successful businessman away from the ring.
And he just took that into his whole life was charity, which is phenomenal.

(02:40:13):
Yes. I mean, we all like to volunteer. We all like to share our time with organizations.
I know I have more than I should probably.
But he just transitioned his life from the ring right into charities, which like, I mean, obviously his wrestling career is incredible.

(02:40:39):
And you can probably see it may never be duplicated the way that the way that he did.
I don't think he'd ever be duplicated, to be honest with you, the way that he had it all.
But my goodness, you look at some of the wrestlers who are big now for charity, you know, the John Cena's and whatever, great, fantastic stuff that they that they're doing.
But it's often times company setups, right? You know, you don't you don't like to think that.

(02:41:10):
Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Whipper Watson just kind of, you know, I understand his career was out, but he didn't have to do what he did right.
The fact that he did it is absolutely incredible. People. I don't think that people like that anymore.

(02:41:31):
I hope that there is. But I shouldn't I shouldn't I shouldn't be negative.
But I think that it just won't be people like that. Well, I hope you're wrong.
That's that's the optimist part of me, I guess. Maybe they fly under the radar.

(02:41:56):
Well, if they if they do, I wish they didn't know most so we could have something to, you know, be uplifted by.
Yeah. You know, especially now, right. You look at today's environment, I don't you know, I'm not just specifically talking about wrestling at this point, but you know, it's.
You almost need somebody to look up to like that who is who is selfless and and would just go to their way to do stuff and boy oh boy, if we could have a few more Whipper Watson's in in this country right now, I think we'd be in a we'd be in a hell of a position.

(02:42:29):
I think we'd be in a lot better position. Yes. Yeah, I absolutely agree.
You know what, Wes, this has been absolutely tremendous. Before I let you go, is there anything that we didn't cover that you wanted to touch on?
Not not really. I wish I had to been a little bit more with details, but it's a great job for you. Great to be on the show with you.

(02:42:54):
I'm really looking forward to listening to I missed a part of the gene chemistry episode, so I'm looking forward to going back and listening to that. Sure.
We I just love you. He's so great. It's incredible. Yeah, he that was one of my favorite episodes from season one.
And you know what? My only regret about doing that one is that I did it so early in the in the first season.

(02:43:18):
But OK, but yeah, this this has been great. You know what? Before before I let you go, because I love what you guys are doing with with the clippings and with the podcast.
So once again, can you let everybody know where they can find the clippings page on Facebook and as well where they can find the podcast on YouTube?

(02:43:42):
Sure, it's that NWCA National Wrestling Clippings Alliance, and that's both the podcast on YouTube and the Facebook page.
Those Facebook page shows clippings from all over the world, pictures, posters, whatever we dig up stories.
Our other pages are the Ontario Wrestling Clippings of the Past.

(02:44:04):
And then my longest running Facebook page is the Wild Men, which is coming up to seven years old.
Wow. I think about 1100 members, many of whom are either former wrestlers or families of wrestlers.
And one of my favorite things to do in Jesse also with my partner.

(02:44:25):
So we like to help out family members who don't have anything to show for their parents' careers.
Awesome. And we I don't think there's close to 50 people we've helped find at least.

(02:44:49):
Wow. Even just one ad of a guy who was only wrestled for three or four years.
His dad's been gone for like 20 years and he's got nothing.
And that means so much to some of these people, right?
That's incredible. I love that. That's that's so incredible.

(02:45:10):
And for anybody listening, you can look in the show notes of today's episode.
You'll find a link to the YouTube page as well as a link to the Facebook group.
Wes, this has been so much fun. I have to have you on again and pick your brain.
I think there's a few more subjects.

(02:45:31):
Do you or if you will, that'll be coming up in the near future.
Let's let's hit the wrestling story of North Dakota. Let's do it.
So thank you so much for having me on.
It's really nice to talk to you. I love the idea of sharing history.
I love the idea of wrestling podcasts. I wish you continued success also.

(02:45:57):
Now, before we head to the finish of tonight's program,
there is one more audio clip that I wanted to play.
Now, this one is an interesting interview from the CBC,
and it really shows the personal side of Whippa Watson.
Not so much not not the showman, not the always working guy,

(02:46:21):
not even the the lighthearted, philanthropic guy,
but the guy who who put his body on the line night after night,
the guy who was hurt all the time,
the guy who woke up sore each and every day and still went out and performed,
like I said, over 1500 career matches.

(02:46:46):
And of that 1500 career matches had won 874 of them for a winning percentage of 58.1 percent.
In this clip, you're going to hear Whippa Watson really explain
the toll that wrestling took on his body. And I think that that kind of
also feeds into what we were talking about with both Jess and Wes, you know,

(02:47:13):
the grind of wrestling and then how it was tragically cut short.
But, you know, fortunately, unfortunately,
maybe it was a good time to get out of of wrestling itself because,
you know, as a lot of guys say, right, father time does no jobs.
And that much is true for for all of us, no matter if you're, you know, someone like myself

(02:47:38):
or you're a superstar wrestler like Whippa Watson.
So I'm going to play this audio clip. I think it's really eye opening.
I think it's a really good bookend to our Whippa Watson conversations.
And on the other side, we're going to close this thing up.
But don't go away because I have some interesting tidbits to pass along,

(02:48:01):
some great information that I just learned myself regarding some great projects
in regards to Grappler with Canada and just some fun things to pass on to all of you.
So please enjoy this audio.
Like I said, I think it's going to be really eye opening for for many people.
And on the other side, make sure you stick around because I have a lot of fun things to to impart on everybody, if you will.

(02:48:28):
So enjoy this and we'll see you on the other side.
Are those wrestlers we see on television just putting on a show and is the whole thing a put on?
I asked Whippa Billy Watson if a wrestler can actually get hurt.
Well, I had my eye taken out a number of years ago.
I only have 10 percent vision in my left eye because of a wrestler, a fellow by the name of Chopper Sims.

(02:48:54):
This is when I was wrestling in England.
He put a some in and put the eyeball on my cheek and I only have 10 percent vision in my left eye.
I've had, oh, I guess pretty close to 250 stitches around my face and different parts of my body.
I've had my nose broken five times.

(02:49:15):
I've had this was had a plastic surgeon on this one eye here because of a very bad gout.
You could just put the side of your hand inside my eye.
And I continued on with this boat because it happened earlier on.
I was wrestling in Belville one night and fortunately when they took me to the hospital, they had a plastic surgeon there and he did a very good job.

(02:49:36):
I had to lay off for quite a time.
And I've had my ribs broken seven times and shoulder broken several times.
And I've had every finger and as you notice this one here is broken.
I'm just getting over a broken finger on this hand.
And I had all the disc disintegrate in my neck.
I was in St. Michael's Hospital for two months in traction.

(02:49:58):
And oh, I could go all the way down the line to broken toes and torn ligaments and things like this.
And you probably say, well, how come you're able to walk around?
It's surprising and I try to tell the young people that how important it is to take care of your body.
If you have a healthy body, it's surprising you can get over many illnesses and also injuries that you have.

(02:50:25):
And like I have all the stress that especially more so today about kids, you know, smoking.
And I feel that smoking is more harmful to the body than anything else that I know of.
Of course, we are into the drugs today and but the smoking, I think that sometimes smoking leads into the drugs.

(02:50:51):
But if we could stop our youngsters and make them realize the damage that they are doing to their bodies,
if they would think of putting something into their body that's going to sort of build it for the future,
and if they want to smoke when they get older, well, that's up to them.
But when they're young, I feel they should lay off the cigarettes.
Billy, in addition to being an accepted and great wrestler,

(02:51:17):
you have built up a reputation over the years as being terribly interested in the welfare of children.
Your last few words there verified that.
But crippled children especially, you have a great interest in crippled children.
Well, I probably have got more of the crippled children than they have for me

(02:51:39):
because when I go to visit with these young people, they do something for me that no one else can do.
They, first of all, they make me realize how fortunate I am that I have a strong, healthy body.
And sometimes I wish that I could trade places with some of them too because I feel of the sufferings that they go through.

(02:52:04):
And I think that like many other athletes and people in the entertainment world,
we come in contact with these people so much that I found in the early stage of my career,
which is going over 20 years now, which I've been associated with crippled children,

(02:52:25):
and going to the hospitals and going to the treatment centers that I actually enjoy being with them.
As I say, it sort of gives you a lift.
It's Whipper Billy Watson, the tough guy with a soft heart for crippled children.
All right. Before we wrap it up for tonight, just really once again,

(02:52:46):
I want to thank Wes and Jess for joining the program tonight,
the tag team behind the National Wrestling Clipping Alliance podcast.
Gentlemen, it was an absolute pleasure to have you both in the program.
It was my pleasure to have joined you on yours as well.
And I think between our two sets of programs,

(02:53:09):
there's going to be a lot of information for not just wrestling fans,
but Canadian history buffs, if you will, to digest, chew on, if you will.
And like I said, it was my pleasure both times to have discussed some Canadian professional wrestling history with the both of you.

(02:53:35):
Once again, I want to thank you, the listener.
You could have done anything else with your time when you were listening to this program in the world.
The world is such a beautiful place.
But you made the conscious decision to join us today,
and I'm forever indebted to you, the listener, for that.

(02:53:56):
Now, at the top of the program, I did say that outside of voting for Grappler with Canada,
which if you haven't done that, go ahead and do that right now over at CanpodAwards.ca.
Once again, voting closes July 13th.
So run, don't walk to do that.

(02:54:17):
But there is one other thing that you can do for me.
You can tell one person that you've never told that you listened to this show to come and give it a shot.
Wrestling might not even be the thing.
Canadian history might not be their thing.
But the human interest stories may just be their thing.

(02:54:42):
So I'm asking you, the listener, reach out to at least one person,
let them know what we're doing here, shoot them the link, have them check it out.
It would mean the world to me.
This thing is growing exponentially because of you, the listener.

(02:55:06):
And every month, I'm beyond humbled to get the emails, to get the DMs, to get the tweets
from all of you who are enjoying this program, who are learning so much,
who are also teaching me in part as well at the same time.

(02:55:30):
And it really is, it's really an incredible feeling.
And I owe it for the most part to you, the listener.
So do me that one small favor.
Share this program with a friend.
Even if you don't think it's up their alley, you never know.

(02:55:54):
Once again, you can contact me many different ways.
You can email me at sixsidepod at gmail.com.
I read absolutely everything that you guys send.
You can hit me on Twitter at six underscore podcast.
You can once again find this program, as I said, at the top of the program

(02:56:15):
on all major podcasting platforms.
But more specifically, remember to leave a five-star rating
and a written review on Apple podcasts.
And when those roll in, sometimes they take a couple of months.
So if you've left one and you haven't heard your review left
and you're sitting there going, God damn, Taxman didn't read my review.

(02:56:38):
It's not my fault.
There's kind of a delay between when you submit it to Apple podcasts
and when I actually see it.
So if you sent one, cool, it's coming up.
If you haven't, get on it because I could have been reading it already.

(02:56:59):
But yes, send your five-star rating and written reviews on Apple podcasts.
And when I receive them, then I will make sure that I give you a shout out
and read them aloud on the next available podcast.
One thing I didn't mention at the top of the program
is the official merchandise store for Grappler with Canada.

(02:57:21):
Grapplerwithcanada.threadlist.com is where you can find all of the T-shirts,
tanks, hoodies, whatever you want in terms of merchandise for Grappler with Canada.
And as usual, I always say this, but it does bear repeating
that all of the proceeds from the classic Grappling with Canada logo

(02:57:42):
that's with the maple leaf, very fitting that we are in July and July 1st,
more specifically, all the proceeds of that shirt are being donated to charity.
So pick up a shirt, it goes to a good cause.
Also, the ways that you can financially support this program,
because unfortunately, there is a hefty cost, if you will, to do all this.

(02:58:07):
So you can help me big time take a load off my shoulders, if you will,
by donating to the program.
There's various ways to do it. You can find it in the Linktree link on the show notes today.
The tip jar function on Goodpods, you can send a donation via PayPal,
as well as you can buy me a beer or two or five or more to buymeacoffee.com slash Grappling.

(02:58:37):
Also, I just want to say there is no donation too small, certainly no donation too big, either, I should say.
Everything that you guys do donate gets invested directly back into the podcast.
It goes towards research, subscriptions for things like Newspaper.com, etc.

(02:58:59):
So anything that you guys donate to the program, you get a big shout out,
and you know where it's going, right? It's going right back into the show.
Also, keep it locked on all social media, whether that's Grappling with Canada on Twitter,
whether that's Grappling with Canada on Instagram, whether it's on the Facebook page,

(02:59:27):
or whether it's on the Canadian Professional Wrestling History Facebook group.
Once I have all of the legalities figured out in regards to our fundraising event
for a very golden item from a three-lettered organization, we'll say,

(02:59:54):
that would fit nicely on your waist area, if you will.
I don't want to give too much away, but if you read between the lines, I think you'll pick up what I'm putting down.
So keep it locked on all socials to find out what I'm doing in regards to that.

(03:00:15):
I think it's going to be a cool little event, and I'm looking forward to engaging in regards to that.
Don't forget, by the way, get your questions in for Vance Nevada for the follow-up episode, the Q&A.
Grill Vance Nevada. Grill him. Send him hardball questions.

(03:00:39):
Let's test this dude. Let's see what he's got. I think he'll be impressed.
Get your questions in. You can email them to me at 6sidepod.gmail.com.
You can send them, whether it's through the Facebook group or the Facebook page or on Twitter, at 6 underscore podcast.

(03:01:01):
Get them in while the getting's good.
You don't want to be that guy, you know, when the Vance Nevada episode part two comes up in the podcast feed,
sitting there going, man, I wish I would have asked blank. Don't wish. Do it.
Send that message. Send your question.
And let's have a lot of fun with the Q&A episode with Vance Nevada regarding the uncontrolled chaos book,

(03:01:30):
which is upcoming very, very shortly. I'm really looking forward to that.
I know quite a few of you are as well.
So for all of that being said, I hope that you guys enjoyed the program today.
I hope that you've been enjoying the direction that season two has gone.

(03:01:52):
Although today's episode did not follow our unsolved mysteries theme specifically.
Although the Nanjo Singh part of it did certainly fit into the theme of this second season of Grappler with Canada.

(03:02:14):
I hope that everybody's enjoying the season. I hope that you really enjoyed this episode.
And I hope that you'll share it with a family member, a friend, share it on Twitter, share it on Facebook.
This thing grows because of you, the listener.
Point blank, period.
So thank you for your time. Thank you for your consideration.

(03:02:38):
Thank you for hanging out with myself and my tremendous guests today.
And with all that being said, happy Canada Day.
I hope everybody was safe and enjoyed themselves.
Happy Fourth of July to our American affiliates down south.
Please be safe and I hope that you all enjoy yourselves.

(03:03:01):
And I hope that you all join us for a special and join us for our August episode.
It's going to be a great one.
Until then, I will leave you as I always do.
And I especially mean it now.
Please, everyone, take care of yourselves and each other.

(03:03:23):
See you next time.

(03:03:53):
Thank you.

(03:04:23):
Thank you.

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"Whipper" Billy Watson - A Canadian Icon

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Whipper" Billy Watson - A Canadian Icon